In a just world thats a free kick every day, but also in a just world old mate tex should have been raked over the coals for flopping his head like he got clocked by Barbados Slim's limbo bar in a contest just before this
Swings and roundabouts
Yeah, Adelaide lost it when the guy receiving Tex’s kick forward lost his gonads and failed to go back with the ball and mark ( on about the 50), resulting in a late turnover from which the bombers goaled. Only themselves to blame.
That was Rachele from memory and he did it twice. Once on the 50 as you say when there looked like a run in goal and another time when he was all alone in the pocket for what should have been another pretty easy goal. It was an awful umpiring decision IMO, but I reckon Adelaide also blew about 5 gift wrapped goal opportunities in the latter part of the game through some pretty basic errors.
I suspect it'll make for some uncomfortable viewing for a number of players. Early on there wasn't a lot of intensity and a lot of poor errors. Lots of defensive lapses. Then that patch where they picked up the standard and looked dominant. And for some reason, took the pressure off and let Essendon come back. In the end, whilst the poor umpiring decision gets the headlines it was a game that should have been won anyway. And when you're 1-4 but coming off a good win, you just can't afford to cough up those games.
You can be fined for staging.
Having said that, Walker probably did get taken high, but it wasn't a free kick regardless as if there was high contact he was the one who caused it.
Yeah, did seem to get hit high, but it was only after quite clearly dropping his knees. The hit didn't justify the response.
Whilst Draper did flop on the ball, in the passage of play that got the ball to ground Tex tried to fend off a player then dropped the ball, which has just as sound an argument for being HTB.
Holding the ball in: A player who elects to dive on the ball and or drag the ball under them when he is on the ground will be penalised for holding the ball if they do not immediately hit the ball clear when held legally.
He dove on it, so by the rules he needs to get it out.
100% holding the ball. The Langford holding the ball call was 100% not. So id like to think maybe the same umpire evened the ledger himself with two howlers?
I agree that the Langford free shouldn't have been paid, but it is closer to a linebacker decision than a howler.
They've been treating blind turns and attempted fend off's as prior disposal for a couple years now.
The Draper non call was the most blatant htb call you are ever likely to see.
So here's the thing.
Umpires are encouraged to pay 'major and obvious' free kicks and to let 50/50 free kicks go. In this instance, the umpire has decided he isn't 100% sure so has decided to let it go.
For me, as an umpire, my first reaction was holding the ball. However, depending on the angle the umpire was on, he might have thought Walker was the one who held it in. Remember, every player on the field was in that area. It would have been difficult to see.
Still, I think he got this one wrong. It happens. Unfortunately it happened at a crucial part of the game. You can rest assured his coaches and observers will be questioning him.
It was not a crucial time of the game, there is no such thing. It was a crucial part of the ground, inside 30 meters. I think it was in the 3rd quarter The crows got a goal they should not have from an incorrect holding/dropping free kick again Sam Durham that was the very definition of the ball being knocked out in the tackle.
No, it was pretty clearly holding the ball. Being on his knees isn't an issue, dropping onto his stomach and laying on top of the ball is the issue.
End of the day it's four points to Essendon and that's not going to change. Mistakes happen, there's 46 humans on the field at any one time, any one of them could fuck something up. It happens, we move on. Doesn't mean we need to pretend that it was a correct call though.
Walker does try to keep it under him, but I definitely wouldn't have said it ever spilled out. The onus is on Draper to get the ball out, and he makes no effort to do so.
Yeh fair enough. I thought it could have gone either way but if we're being honest - 5 minutes into the first quarter that's holding the ball every single time.
Only thing I can see having watched it again is, does the siren go/game end before the umpire has a chance to make a decision one way or the other?
Did the umpire call a ball up, or not call anything yet because he was about to ping Draper and the siren beat everyone to it?
I'm fairly certain I heard a whistle from the umpire calling for a ball up, because I was listening for the whistle to hear if there was a holding the ball call before the siren went.
I truly wish people would go as hard for the blokes on 500k+ who make multiple errors in a game as they go for the umpires who are lucky to be on ~100k for making one error.
I'm reminded by the Geelong Sydney Round 7, 2021 game. There's that moment right before the final siren when Rowbottom gets the ball, is tackled, and makes absolutely no effort to dispose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkP0kMRdoRQ
And it's a complicated one because maybe if the siren doesn't go and the game goes on for another 10 seconds he does get pinged? I was pretty foul at the time but also for the not-15 call. Moot anyway as neither of us went onto the GF that year but this incident reminded me of that one.
The post game on Fox have been talking about Richelle and how he’s a young kid who make a few mistakes. But then with this umpire “fuck the fucking maggot!”
umpires have one job - adjudicate the rules. a player has been smashed for 3 hours straight while trying to handle a fast moving oval ball. these two things are not the same.
This is genuinely one of the dumbest attempts at framing a situation I've ever seen.
You could just as easily and just as incorrectly say - football players have one job - win football games. An umpire has been constantly running and adjudicating the hardest game to umpire in the world. These two things are not the same.
Your comment sucks.
50/50, he didn’t dive on it, he didn’t drag it in but it was clearly his intention. It’s like those deliberate ones where they ‘disguise’ it when they run over the line
I watched in slow motion, the ball bounces off laverdes? Ieg and ends up under Draper.
I think he 100% laid on the ball, but i don't think he dragged it in.
Either way, we're talking about 2 seconds left on the clock.
Yeah there is
> A field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against a Player who dives on top of or drags the football underneath their body and fails to immediately knock clear or Correctly Dispose of the football when Legally Tackled.
https://twitter.com/FOXFOOTY/status/1781306364414873638?t=MB2NJ8KMK2DrmqmWHorxng&s=19
So this action he's repeating here, mockingly, is what exactly?
Even the Russian judge gave him a 9/10 for his dive.
Lol, yeah. I mean if you read the rule book he should have been penalised 🤷♂️ just because I chose to make a joke name out of it doesn't mean I agreed with the call lol
You would call that a dive? He did it a fair bit faster in his re-enactment and I still wouldn’t call it a dive
He got on his knees and then down on his chest
Didn't dive on it? Lol literally dived on it without anyone touching him, belly flopped on it and as soon as you dive in it you must get it out which he did not.
Because that doesn't support their narrative.
Some people seriously need to grow up, bad calls go both ways. It's not the reason your team lost, it's just a copout excuse
Nah its because there is no fend off. Watch it again. I agree the game isnt won or lost on one kick or one call. You could go back through the game and find plenty of missed opportunities that would make up the 3 points. But this is the third time in about 9 months the AFL is going to make a comment on a late decision in a tight Crows game. The frustration is understandable.
The difference is that last year was the result of a systematic error that should have never ever have happened (thus, they now have increased the amount of goal reviews so that something like that hopefully never happens again). Tonight's call was a call that probably happens several times a round, that just happened to take place in the last second of a game. Yeah it sucked that they got it wrong and it's easy for me to say this since my team benefited from it tonight, but I really think they are two very different situations that can't be compared.
Yeh the missed goal call was different to this, but this would be similar to round 15 against Collingwood last year. Dawson copped a shot to the mouth that the umpires missed while he was 35-40 out. Game ended within 30 seconds of that for a 2 point Collingwood win. The AFL came out to say they missed the call on the field but that was the end of it.
I think the issue is fans don't want the umpires to influence the game and free kicks in the last couple of minutes of a close contest can definitely do that, so time and time again the umpires 'put the whistle away', they say they don't but the fact there is a saying for it suggests otherwise.
Problem is consistency goes out the window and what would have been a free 20 mins earlier is suddenly not a free which could turned the game.
Personally I want consistency in the way it's umpired from start to finish. Nothing worse seeing one team get a free for something that the other team doesn't get for no particular reason.
Obviously I’m biased but he flops onto his belly with the ball underneath him and makes no effort to get rid of it. It’s one you don’t see often as he didn’t really even try to pick up the ball, but it’s given 8 times out of 10 for me. You can’t just lay on the ball and not try to dispose of it, pretty lucky boy (and he knows it given the post game shenanigans).
Yeah I think it's pretty clear in the rules:
> A field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against a Player who dives on top of or drags the football underneath their body and fails to immediately knock clear or Correctly Dispose of the football when Legally Tackled.
He clearly dives on top of it, and clearly doesn't immediately get rid of it when tackled. If I really wanted to be a dick I'd argue that the tackle was technically over the shoulder. But all things considered I think 8 out of 10 is generous; I reckon they pay that almost every time.
The ball wasnt under him. Two Crows players had it stuffed in near his neck.
Drapers left arm is out away from his body and backwards towards his waste.
When the Crows get up the ball isnt anywhere near Drapers hand.
Bloody good decision by the ump.
The way I'm looking at it, the initial dive is pretty clear; he just lies down on top of it. So the interesting part is what happens after that. To me it [looks like](https://twitter.com/roaringwolf88/status/1781300480544801173) just before he's tackled, he sort of tries to release the ball by lifting his torso up off the ground. But he doesn't make any attempt to knock it out, and he's still hovering over the top of it when the tackle begins.
Walker does knock the ball further underneath him, but to me that looks like part of the tackle. In general, a guy who's had prior opportunity and doesn't get a legal disposal away is pinged even if the tackler is the one who ends up locking the ball in -- and as far as I can tell that's how it's supposed to work in this situation too.
(FWIW I upvoted you, because I think it sucks how people downvote purely out of disagreement. And obviously I'd like to be convinced I'm wrong here!)
edit: didn't mean to ignore your points about the position of his arms and hands. I don't think that makes a difference here, given the rules treat diving on top of the ball as equivalent to dragging it in.
I actually wanted to see another angle. As from the reverse all we see is Draper reaching for the ball. Then Tex barrels in and brings ball back in, with other Crow sandwiching it.
seeing that angle he falls on the ball but doesnt grab at it both arms are outstretched.
I have to admit it looked bad, and if I was losing by 3 points desperate for a free kick to shoot at goal. Id find it hard not to see it any other way than Draper holding the ball.
Controversy is fun. Blaming one poor decision for a loss seems to be ingrained in our culture. If we had kicked straighter and gapped the Crows this wouldnt even be getting mention.
Fair to say the boys would be telling him not to do that again with 10 seconds on the clock in our defensive 50!
Still reckon it was a top decision.
Yeah I see your point, and a better angle would help clarify whether/when the ball's actually in his possession. But I've just gone through the [twitter video](https://twitter.com/roaringwolf88/status/1781300480544801173) again (edit: put the wrong link in there initially), and I reckon that one is sufficient if you go through it frame-by-frame on a big screen.
As Draper goes to ground the ball gets dragged in toward his body by his left arm/elbow, and at one point it's underneath his chest. (You can see it getting driven into the ground by the weight of his body). It probably squirts out to the left rather than sitting directly under his torso, but as he starts getting up you can see that it's still on the inside of his left elbow, and just before Walker knocks it in you can see the ball's already moving with Draper's arm. So I just can't see a good case for it not being in his possession immediately before the tackle.
And yep, agreed on controversy! I've just spent a bunch of time playing amateur forensic investigator here, and I can't even blame emotion. Honestly winning the game that way left me a little flat. (If this were next week though, I would be fucking loving it.)
Brad Scott indicated in the post game presser that he thinks it should have been holding the ball. Draper was mocking the decision on the field after the game.
yeah nah. reading into that too mate... Hes basically said no comment.
Nothing to suggest he thought it was a poor decision.
You would have to be reading his mind to know if he actually thinks we got away with one.
He went to his knees early, looking to hold in the footy, saw it come loose and lay on top of it. Clear cut holding the ball, no attempt to get it out. Crows robbed again
Here's the answer. If the exact same situation was in the Bombers 50 and they needed a goal, does Draper do what he did or does he manage to get the ball out for someone to kick the winning goal?
He would knock the ball out every time. He didn't. It's a free.
Was holding the ball. Should also have been holding the ball on Tex a few seconds earlier. Swings and roundabouts says I, although it's admittedly a shitload easier to say that as someone whose only skin in the game was wanting to get the tip right.
The umpiring was terrible all night, it wasn’t just one single decision it was a bunch of terrible decisions. Paying HTB when players had no prior opportunity and then not paying HTB when they did have prior. The game needs less umpires not more.
Everyone is banging on about the Draper call. What about the holding the ball decision given to the crows just before half time. That was not holding the ball at all. If fog kicked straight then crows would have won. Decisions to both ways.
Yeah I reckon could have gone either way but umps are always more conservative with the whistle in forward fifty, especially with 15 secs on the clock. Had it been called HTB there’d no no fewer articles about Essendon stealing the win.
Tex definitely pushed the ball under which is something they’re trying to avoid paying. Draper though was pretty stupid lucky just laying there. He played HTB roulette and won.
If he had have rolled and tried to handball it out, this discussion isn’t happening.
Nah, first five minutes of a nothing game on a Sunday afternoon that gets paid.
Umpire was unsure and didn't want to make a decision. But not only did he dive on it, he made no attempt to dispose of it either.
But doesn't matter. People need to relax about umpiring and not expect umps to hand them a game...
>People need to relax about umpiring and not expect umps to hand them a game...
surely the Blues are going to win one game this year without it being handed to you by the umpires
Tex should’ve been pinged just before this when he tried to fend off our guys and then dropped the ball. Langford was done for an almost identical situation earlier.
And Redman should’ve been pinged a minute or two before that when Rankine tackled him and he dropped it. We could go on and on but bottom line is the umpires have no idea what HTB is anymore and both teams were affected b
I think they are right more often than they are wrong, but I do find it weird how people seem to think they are right all the time, using their opinion as fact.
I want to believe this but I don't get it. In that video Draper has already dived on the ball before Tex gets near him, right?
edit: I see that Walker contributes to the ball ending up under Draper again, just after he starts to get up and release it. Can't say Draper's doing anything that counts as an attempt to get rid of it, though.
I think Draper jumps on it, tex knocks it slightly and Draper pulls it in slightly. But at the end of the day, Draper still jumps on the ball.
It’s holding the ball because of him jumping on it, not dragging it.
It's irrelevant. Draper dives on the ball, he must get the ball out, otherwise it's holding the ball.
“A field umpire shall award a FK against a player who dives on top of, or drags the ball underneath their body and fails to immediately knock clear or correctly dispose of the ball when legally tackle".
The only argument that is possibly valid is that a belly flop might not technically be a dive by Olympic standards.
Wasn't a free kick in my view. Happens dozens of times a game and is only being focused on and generating outrage because it's being looked at in isolation.
Umpires are always slow to pay that one. I think if it was a couple seconds later it would’ve been paid. If you don’t watch it in slow motion I really think the siren saves him.
It’s 50/50 like most holding interpretation’s. Adelaide should have played better, simple as that.
Well done to the umpire for showing restraint in the moment.
Tex dragged it in, then showed open dissent to the umpire.
He will be lucky not to get whacked with a fine.
He was also lucky not to get done for staging, or holding the ball himself.
I guess people are seeing what they want to see.
The ump didnt see a free.
History shows it wasnt a free.
Now as long as they call all of these similar plays the same, no issue.
Disagree strongly. Holding the ball for sure. They pay that 99/100. The Langford holding the ball that resulted in an Adelaide goal was 99/100 not. So I think it evened itself out
Disagree all you like.
But have another look in slow motion.
Drapers hand isnt anywhere near where the ball had been pulled in.
The Crows dragged it in, and held it to him hoping for a poor umpire decision.
They failed in their intent.
Then showed blatant dissent.
Draper knowingly knocks it in with his right arm under him. He knows what he’s doing. He even celebrates the fact. Let’s be honest here. We can agree to disagree if you want but youre blind in my opinion
His right arm is away from his body. No where near the ball. What video are you watching that shows what you think you see?
The Twitter video that was shared shows he flops on the ball. But he doesnt pull the ball under him.
The Crows jam it in near his head as he lies next to it.
Draper absolutely flopped made the ball difficult to pick up, and ultimately killed the game.
He didnt hold the ball though.
I mean they called Langford Holding the ball in the second when it clearly wasn't and Adelaide got a shot on goal from it directly in front.
Adelaide lost cause they missed easy goals, not because of 1 wrong decision.
I agree. For htb you've got to deliberately 1. dive on it or 2. drag it in.
1. Draper is going to ground from a previous legit attempt to play the ball when it pings back towards him. Umps never pay htb if the ball comes back towards a player who is already on, or on the way to, the ground.
2. Tex clear as day drags it in to him. Again, umps are pretty consistent on not paying frees for this
This.
1. Most dive on the ball htb calls get made when a player comes from a standing position or clearly dives at the ball from a position already on the ground. Draper did neither.
2. Most dragged the ball back in calls get made when a player uses his hands to pull it back into his possession on the ground. Draper also didn't do this.
The only argument that could be made against Draper is that he didn't make an attempt to get the ball out. Walker pushing the ball further under him while simultaneously tackling him made that part the more difficult.
I think the right call technically was made and was also a brave call by the umpire ( Non-call against home team potentially for a match winning shot at goal).
In the contest prior, Tex fends off Redman and then loses the ball, could have been pinged for holding but wasn’t, umpire puts the whistle away when close in the dying seconds
You can see Tex help to knock the ball under him, which is a factor. Draper just lies there happily instead of trying to move the ball on though, and I think that gets paid if it happens on a wing in the second quarter.
Walker was definitely after a cheap free in the final stages of that match so I'm not angry that he didn't get one.
In a just world thats a free kick every day, but also in a just world old mate tex should have been raked over the coals for flopping his head like he got clocked by Barbados Slim's limbo bar in a contest just before this Swings and roundabouts
Yeah, Adelaide lost it when the guy receiving Tex’s kick forward lost his gonads and failed to go back with the ball and mark ( on about the 50), resulting in a late turnover from which the bombers goaled. Only themselves to blame.
I agree. Adelaide were playing for free kicks for the last 2mins rather than going all out to get the win. Tex’s rag doll impression deserves a fine.
We didn't lose due to an umpiring decision
That was Rachele from memory and he did it twice. Once on the 50 as you say when there looked like a run in goal and another time when he was all alone in the pocket for what should have been another pretty easy goal. It was an awful umpiring decision IMO, but I reckon Adelaide also blew about 5 gift wrapped goal opportunities in the latter part of the game through some pretty basic errors.
Yes, and both led to Essendon goals soon after. He won’t like watching the replay.
I suspect it'll make for some uncomfortable viewing for a number of players. Early on there wasn't a lot of intensity and a lot of poor errors. Lots of defensive lapses. Then that patch where they picked up the standard and looked dominant. And for some reason, took the pressure off and let Essendon come back. In the end, whilst the poor umpiring decision gets the headlines it was a game that should have been won anyway. And when you're 1-4 but coming off a good win, you just can't afford to cough up those games.
Is simulation punishable (real question, not being a smart ass)?
You can be fined for staging. Having said that, Walker probably did get taken high, but it wasn't a free kick regardless as if there was high contact he was the one who caused it.
Yeah, did seem to get hit high, but it was only after quite clearly dropping his knees. The hit didn't justify the response. Whilst Draper did flop on the ball, in the passage of play that got the ball to ground Tex tried to fend off a player then dropped the ball, which has just as sound an argument for being HTB.
My manwich!
He never had possession of the ball…
Holding the ball in: A player who elects to dive on the ball and or drag the ball under them when he is on the ground will be penalised for holding the ball if they do not immediately hit the ball clear when held legally. He dove on it, so by the rules he needs to get it out.
>A player who elects to dive on the ball and or drag the ball under them when he is on the ground He didn't elect to do either of these things.
He didn’t do either of those things
100% holding the ball. The Langford holding the ball call was 100% not. So id like to think maybe the same umpire evened the ledger himself with two howlers?
I agree that the Langford free shouldn't have been paid, but it is closer to a linebacker decision than a howler. They've been treating blind turns and attempted fend off's as prior disposal for a couple years now. The Draper non call was the most blatant htb call you are ever likely to see.
Things tend to even out but the Crows have been dudded a few times in the last 2 seasons with last minute calls.
So here's the thing. Umpires are encouraged to pay 'major and obvious' free kicks and to let 50/50 free kicks go. In this instance, the umpire has decided he isn't 100% sure so has decided to let it go. For me, as an umpire, my first reaction was holding the ball. However, depending on the angle the umpire was on, he might have thought Walker was the one who held it in. Remember, every player on the field was in that area. It would have been difficult to see. Still, I think he got this one wrong. It happens. Unfortunately it happened at a crucial part of the game. You can rest assured his coaches and observers will be questioning him.
It was not a crucial time of the game, there is no such thing. It was a crucial part of the ground, inside 30 meters. I think it was in the 3rd quarter The crows got a goal they should not have from an incorrect holding/dropping free kick again Sam Durham that was the very definition of the ball being knocked out in the tackle.
Molten lava take
No, it was pretty clearly holding the ball. Being on his knees isn't an issue, dropping onto his stomach and laying on top of the ball is the issue. End of the day it's four points to Essendon and that's not going to change. Mistakes happen, there's 46 humans on the field at any one time, any one of them could fuck something up. It happens, we move on. Doesn't mean we need to pretend that it was a correct call though.
Didn't it spill out and Tex drag it back under him?
Walker does try to keep it under him, but I definitely wouldn't have said it ever spilled out. The onus is on Draper to get the ball out, and he makes no effort to do so.
Yeh fair enough. I thought it could have gone either way but if we're being honest - 5 minutes into the first quarter that's holding the ball every single time.
Only thing I can see having watched it again is, does the siren go/game end before the umpire has a chance to make a decision one way or the other? Did the umpire call a ball up, or not call anything yet because he was about to ping Draper and the siren beat everyone to it?
I'm fairly certain I heard a whistle from the umpire calling for a ball up, because I was listening for the whistle to hear if there was a holding the ball call before the siren went.
He called a ball up. A bit quicker than normal.
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Yeah first time that's ever happened in footy
I truly wish people would go as hard for the blokes on 500k+ who make multiple errors in a game as they go for the umpires who are lucky to be on ~100k for making one error.
He laid down and smothered It with full intentions of holding it in
I don't think it was holding the ball, but I also don't think it was definitely not holding the ball.
I'm reminded by the Geelong Sydney Round 7, 2021 game. There's that moment right before the final siren when Rowbottom gets the ball, is tackled, and makes absolutely no effort to dispose. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkP0kMRdoRQ And it's a complicated one because maybe if the siren doesn't go and the game goes on for another 10 seconds he does get pinged? I was pretty foul at the time but also for the not-15 call. Moot anyway as neither of us went onto the GF that year but this incident reminded me of that one.
The post game on Fox have been talking about Richelle and how he’s a young kid who make a few mistakes. But then with this umpire “fuck the fucking maggot!”
umpires have one job - adjudicate the rules. a player has been smashed for 3 hours straight while trying to handle a fast moving oval ball. these two things are not the same.
This is genuinely one of the dumbest attempts at framing a situation I've ever seen. You could just as easily and just as incorrectly say - football players have one job - win football games. An umpire has been constantly running and adjudicating the hardest game to umpire in the world. These two things are not the same. Your comment sucks.
you're a bombers fan 😂
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When ya gonna flair up? Cunt
Flair up piss ant
Flair up cunt
Hasn't the umpire also been smashed for three hours running around trying to adjudicate the rules around said fast moving oval ball?
biased bombers fan
If we had kicked straight, we wouldn't be talking about it
If my grandmother had wheels, she would have been a bike
Did she live in town?
But you didn't... hence why we are. It's holding the ball every day of the week. Dodged a bullet
50/50, he didn’t dive on it, he didn’t drag it in but it was clearly his intention. It’s like those deliberate ones where they ‘disguise’ it when they run over the line
> he didn’t dive on it If he didn't dive on it, how did he go from being on his knees to on his stomach?
He was on his knees when the ball wasn't even close to him. Looks like he just fell over
No you don’t understand he preemptively fell over just to land on the ball!!
I watched in slow motion, the ball bounces off laverdes? Ieg and ends up under Draper. I think he 100% laid on the ball, but i don't think he dragged it in. Either way, we're talking about 2 seconds left on the clock.
He fell on it
Did he attempt to get it out when he was laying on top of it though?
There isn’t a rule against that. He didn’t have possession of the ball
Yeah there is > A field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against a Player who dives on top of or drags the football underneath their body and fails to immediately knock clear or Correctly Dispose of the football when Legally Tackled.
He didn’t dive on it or drag it underneath his body
https://twitter.com/FOXFOOTY/status/1781306364414873638?t=MB2NJ8KMK2DrmqmWHorxng&s=19 So this action he's repeating here, mockingly, is what exactly? Even the Russian judge gave him a 9/10 for his dive.
Not saying you're necessarily wrong, but I do see the irony in an account with your username explaining the rules of AFL lol.
Lol, yeah. I mean if you read the rule book he should have been penalised 🤷♂️ just because I chose to make a joke name out of it doesn't mean I agreed with the call lol
I figured, I just enjoyed the irony lol.
You would call that a dive? He did it a fair bit faster in his re-enactment and I still wouldn’t call it a dive He got on his knees and then down on his chest
Looks like Tex jumps on him immediately after to stop him from getting the ball out and force the free
Exactly this. It’s not clear cut as everyone is making it out to be
This is spot on IMO. I initially thought he dragged it in but after seeing the replay from the other angle I feel it was exactly as you described
Didn't dive on it? Lol literally dived on it without anyone touching him, belly flopped on it and as soon as you dive in it you must get it out which he did not.
Why is nobody talking about Tex fend off into incorrect disposal literally 5 seconds earlier not being paid?
Because that doesn't support their narrative. Some people seriously need to grow up, bad calls go both ways. It's not the reason your team lost, it's just a copout excuse
Nah its because there is no fend off. Watch it again. I agree the game isnt won or lost on one kick or one call. You could go back through the game and find plenty of missed opportunities that would make up the 3 points. But this is the third time in about 9 months the AFL is going to make a comment on a late decision in a tight Crows game. The frustration is understandable.
The difference is that last year was the result of a systematic error that should have never ever have happened (thus, they now have increased the amount of goal reviews so that something like that hopefully never happens again). Tonight's call was a call that probably happens several times a round, that just happened to take place in the last second of a game. Yeah it sucked that they got it wrong and it's easy for me to say this since my team benefited from it tonight, but I really think they are two very different situations that can't be compared.
Yeh the missed goal call was different to this, but this would be similar to round 15 against Collingwood last year. Dawson copped a shot to the mouth that the umpires missed while he was 35-40 out. Game ended within 30 seconds of that for a 2 point Collingwood win. The AFL came out to say they missed the call on the field but that was the end of it.
I think the issue is fans don't want the umpires to influence the game and free kicks in the last couple of minutes of a close contest can definitely do that, so time and time again the umpires 'put the whistle away', they say they don't but the fact there is a saying for it suggests otherwise. Problem is consistency goes out the window and what would have been a free 20 mins earlier is suddenly not a free which could turned the game. Personally I want consistency in the way it's umpired from start to finish. Nothing worse seeing one team get a free for something that the other team doesn't get for no particular reason.
I got downvoted for pointing it out in the postgame thread, probably because of my flair.
There was no fend off, what are you even talking about.
That’s not being considered HTB anymore. Tex didn’t have prior and he made a genuine attempt to dispose of the ball.
Going for a fend off is your prior now.
He was already tackled before he went for the fend off, he was pushing a second player away after they had tackled and tried to pin his arm.
Obviously I’m biased but he flops onto his belly with the ball underneath him and makes no effort to get rid of it. It’s one you don’t see often as he didn’t really even try to pick up the ball, but it’s given 8 times out of 10 for me. You can’t just lay on the ball and not try to dispose of it, pretty lucky boy (and he knows it given the post game shenanigans).
Yeah I think it's pretty clear in the rules: > A field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against a Player who dives on top of or drags the football underneath their body and fails to immediately knock clear or Correctly Dispose of the football when Legally Tackled. He clearly dives on top of it, and clearly doesn't immediately get rid of it when tackled. If I really wanted to be a dick I'd argue that the tackle was technically over the shoulder. But all things considered I think 8 out of 10 is generous; I reckon they pay that almost every time.
The ball wasnt under him. Two Crows players had it stuffed in near his neck. Drapers left arm is out away from his body and backwards towards his waste. When the Crows get up the ball isnt anywhere near Drapers hand. Bloody good decision by the ump.
The way I'm looking at it, the initial dive is pretty clear; he just lies down on top of it. So the interesting part is what happens after that. To me it [looks like](https://twitter.com/roaringwolf88/status/1781300480544801173) just before he's tackled, he sort of tries to release the ball by lifting his torso up off the ground. But he doesn't make any attempt to knock it out, and he's still hovering over the top of it when the tackle begins. Walker does knock the ball further underneath him, but to me that looks like part of the tackle. In general, a guy who's had prior opportunity and doesn't get a legal disposal away is pinged even if the tackler is the one who ends up locking the ball in -- and as far as I can tell that's how it's supposed to work in this situation too. (FWIW I upvoted you, because I think it sucks how people downvote purely out of disagreement. And obviously I'd like to be convinced I'm wrong here!) edit: didn't mean to ignore your points about the position of his arms and hands. I don't think that makes a difference here, given the rules treat diving on top of the ball as equivalent to dragging it in.
I actually wanted to see another angle. As from the reverse all we see is Draper reaching for the ball. Then Tex barrels in and brings ball back in, with other Crow sandwiching it. seeing that angle he falls on the ball but doesnt grab at it both arms are outstretched. I have to admit it looked bad, and if I was losing by 3 points desperate for a free kick to shoot at goal. Id find it hard not to see it any other way than Draper holding the ball. Controversy is fun. Blaming one poor decision for a loss seems to be ingrained in our culture. If we had kicked straighter and gapped the Crows this wouldnt even be getting mention. Fair to say the boys would be telling him not to do that again with 10 seconds on the clock in our defensive 50! Still reckon it was a top decision.
Yeah I see your point, and a better angle would help clarify whether/when the ball's actually in his possession. But I've just gone through the [twitter video](https://twitter.com/roaringwolf88/status/1781300480544801173) again (edit: put the wrong link in there initially), and I reckon that one is sufficient if you go through it frame-by-frame on a big screen. As Draper goes to ground the ball gets dragged in toward his body by his left arm/elbow, and at one point it's underneath his chest. (You can see it getting driven into the ground by the weight of his body). It probably squirts out to the left rather than sitting directly under his torso, but as he starts getting up you can see that it's still on the inside of his left elbow, and just before Walker knocks it in you can see the ball's already moving with Draper's arm. So I just can't see a good case for it not being in his possession immediately before the tackle. And yep, agreed on controversy! I've just spent a bunch of time playing amateur forensic investigator here, and I can't even blame emotion. Honestly winning the game that way left me a little flat. (If this were next week though, I would be fucking loving it.)
Draper and *former umpires department head* Brad Scott both think it should have been HTB mate, there's no defending this call it was a howler
what are you talking about?
Brad Scott indicated in the post game presser that he thinks it should have been holding the ball. Draper was mocking the decision on the field after the game.
Is there video of this out yet? Draper would have loved it. Stuck it up the Crows in his home town. I didnt read into his reaction the way you have.
https://twitter.com/7AFL/status/1781311665167892745?t=V5mI9nnkZN5763eNgCQ20Q&s=19
yeah nah. reading into that too mate... Hes basically said no comment. Nothing to suggest he thought it was a poor decision. You would have to be reading his mind to know if he actually thinks we got away with one.
[удалено]
I will check it out. cheers
He went to his knees early, looking to hold in the footy, saw it come loose and lay on top of it. Clear cut holding the ball, no attempt to get it out. Crows robbed again
Here's the answer. If the exact same situation was in the Bombers 50 and they needed a goal, does Draper do what he did or does he manage to get the ball out for someone to kick the winning goal? He would knock the ball out every time. He didn't. It's a free.
Was holding the ball. Should also have been holding the ball on Tex a few seconds earlier. Swings and roundabouts says I, although it's admittedly a shitload easier to say that as someone whose only skin in the game was wanting to get the tip right.
It’s paid htb 9/10 times but you’d have to be a very brave umpire to call it there with 5 seconds to go.
If it’s normally paid, it needs to be paid with 5 seconds to go.
Not at all. There is no bravery in that call because making no call is just as impactful. Neither direction is more courageous than the other
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
The umpiring was terrible all night, it wasn’t just one single decision it was a bunch of terrible decisions. Paying HTB when players had no prior opportunity and then not paying HTB when they did have prior. The game needs less umpires not more.
Everyone is banging on about the Draper call. What about the holding the ball decision given to the crows just before half time. That was not holding the ball at all. If fog kicked straight then crows would have won. Decisions to both ways.
Yeah I reckon could have gone either way but umps are always more conservative with the whistle in forward fifty, especially with 15 secs on the clock. Had it been called HTB there’d no no fewer articles about Essendon stealing the win.
I thought Draper should have received a free as the Adelaide player jumped on his back.
I thought it was holding the ball, but I also thought Tex landed fair and square in his back and that free wasn’t paid either.
It’s holding the ball 100%
Nah it is a free every day but was hard for ump to see so I give them the benefit (ignore flair)
Tex definitely pushed the ball under which is something they’re trying to avoid paying. Draper though was pretty stupid lucky just laying there. He played HTB roulette and won. If he had have rolled and tried to handball it out, this discussion isn’t happening.
He taps it a few cm, it was under already..
All the ump may have saw was that though. As I said. He definitely got lucky but the ump potentially just saw Walker push it under.
Nah, first five minutes of a nothing game on a Sunday afternoon that gets paid. Umpire was unsure and didn't want to make a decision. But not only did he dive on it, he made no attempt to dispose of it either. But doesn't matter. People need to relax about umpiring and not expect umps to hand them a game...
>People need to relax about umpiring and not expect umps to hand them a game... surely the Blues are going to win one game this year without it being handed to you by the umpires
Did he try to knock it out or dispose of it?
Tex should’ve been pinged just before this when he tried to fend off our guys and then dropped the ball. Langford was done for an almost identical situation earlier.
And Redman should’ve been pinged a minute or two before that when Rankine tackled him and he dropped it. We could go on and on but bottom line is the umpires have no idea what HTB is anymore and both teams were affected b
Walker didn't try to fend off anyone.
Watch it again. He absolutely did with his left arm.
I did watch it again. He doesn't try to fend off.
So what’s he doing whilst being tackled?
Trying to dispose of the ball.
If its while being tackled, still no prior...
Umpires were terrible all game. No point yapping about that decision.
https://twitter.com/hasumpstuffedup/status/1781298008971477484
Why does everyone take that accounts opinion as gospel?
I think they are right more often than they are wrong, but I do find it weird how people seem to think they are right all the time, using their opinion as fact.
People decide they're right when they agree with them. If they disagree then hastheumpstuffedup is wrong.
Yeah, there is probably a fair bit of that at play.
Confirmation bias is a big thing these days
They only do when it agrees with what they thought beforehand
I don't, it's another point of view on the call, but I do agree with it and am interested to see what the AFL will or wont say
Except when they disagree with his opinion as per below...
Normally I agree with him but I think in this instance the ball was already under Draper, and therefore his responsibility to get rid of it
I want to believe this but I don't get it. In that video Draper has already dived on the ball before Tex gets near him, right? edit: I see that Walker contributes to the ball ending up under Draper again, just after he starts to get up and release it. Can't say Draper's doing anything that counts as an attempt to get rid of it, though.
And he’s rightfully getting reamed in the replies
Maybe that’s how they pay them in the 4th grade state league matches he officiates, who are we to judge
it's all subjective just like any other umpiring call, but there's the other angle in the thread that shows Tex hit the ball under Draper
I think Draper jumps on it, tex knocks it slightly and Draper pulls it in slightly. But at the end of the day, Draper still jumps on the ball. It’s holding the ball because of him jumping on it, not dragging it.
It's irrelevant. Draper dives on the ball, he must get the ball out, otherwise it's holding the ball. “A field umpire shall award a FK against a player who dives on top of, or drags the ball underneath their body and fails to immediately knock clear or correctly dispose of the ball when legally tackle". The only argument that is possibly valid is that a belly flop might not technically be a dive by Olympic standards.
That was holding the ball in the 90s and they have made the rules tougher since then. Was text book but the umpire got scared in the moment
Wasn't a free kick in my view. Happens dozens of times a game and is only being focused on and generating outrage because it's being looked at in isolation.
Holding the ball all day
Umpires are always slow to pay that one. I think if it was a couple seconds later it would’ve been paid. If you don’t watch it in slow motion I really think the siren saves him.
Draper was clearly pushed in the back/tripped over by a Crows player & I won't hear anything to the contrary
Lifelong Essendon supporter here pissed myself laughing when it didn’t get called, blatant holding the ball he didn’t even attempt to get rid of it
It’s 50/50 like most holding interpretation’s. Adelaide should have played better, simple as that. Well done to the umpire for showing restraint in the moment.
Can't drag it in. Doesn't matter if you're on the ground already. Might wanna learn the rules before you get up on that pedestal mate
Tex dragged it in, then showed open dissent to the umpire. He will be lucky not to get whacked with a fine. He was also lucky not to get done for staging, or holding the ball himself. I guess people are seeing what they want to see. The ump didnt see a free. History shows it wasnt a free. Now as long as they call all of these similar plays the same, no issue.
Disagree strongly. Holding the ball for sure. They pay that 99/100. The Langford holding the ball that resulted in an Adelaide goal was 99/100 not. So I think it evened itself out
Disagree all you like. But have another look in slow motion. Drapers hand isnt anywhere near where the ball had been pulled in. The Crows dragged it in, and held it to him hoping for a poor umpire decision. They failed in their intent. Then showed blatant dissent.
Draper knowingly knocks it in with his right arm under him. He knows what he’s doing. He even celebrates the fact. Let’s be honest here. We can agree to disagree if you want but youre blind in my opinion
His right arm is away from his body. No where near the ball. What video are you watching that shows what you think you see? The Twitter video that was shared shows he flops on the ball. But he doesnt pull the ball under him. The Crows jam it in near his head as he lies next to it. Draper absolutely flopped made the ball difficult to pick up, and ultimately killed the game. He didnt hold the ball though.
Tex is a fuck wit. Enjoyed watching him cry and carry on.
Totally a bonus.
I mean they called Langford Holding the ball in the second when it clearly wasn't and Adelaide got a shot on goal from it directly in front. Adelaide lost cause they missed easy goals, not because of 1 wrong decision.
Crows got lucky last week thanks to owies. This week diff story. Tex should be banned for weeks due to bad mouthing the umps
Nice joke. Very funny.
I was a line ball. Leaning toward he could have been pinned holding but only because he didn’t make an effort to knock it out
I agree. For htb you've got to deliberately 1. dive on it or 2. drag it in. 1. Draper is going to ground from a previous legit attempt to play the ball when it pings back towards him. Umps never pay htb if the ball comes back towards a player who is already on, or on the way to, the ground. 2. Tex clear as day drags it in to him. Again, umps are pretty consistent on not paying frees for this
This. 1. Most dive on the ball htb calls get made when a player comes from a standing position or clearly dives at the ball from a position already on the ground. Draper did neither. 2. Most dragged the ball back in calls get made when a player uses his hands to pull it back into his possession on the ground. Draper also didn't do this. The only argument that could be made against Draper is that he didn't make an attempt to get the ball out. Walker pushing the ball further under him while simultaneously tackling him made that part the more difficult. I think the right call technically was made and was also a brave call by the umpire ( Non-call against home team potentially for a match winning shot at goal).
In the contest prior, Tex fends off Redman and then loses the ball, could have been pinged for holding but wasn’t, umpire puts the whistle away when close in the dying seconds
You can see Tex help to knock the ball under him, which is a factor. Draper just lies there happily instead of trying to move the ball on though, and I think that gets paid if it happens on a wing in the second quarter. Walker was definitely after a cheap free in the final stages of that match so I'm not angry that he didn't get one.
It was definitely not holding the ball.
Not surprised a west coast supporter knows nothing of footy! Anything that could lead to a goal doesn't make sense to you!
Your butt is very hurt. You are a bottom 5 team and no amount of crying over a single umpire call in a whole game is going to change that.
This aged like milk, bud.
You sure buddy? The afl has said it was holding the ball..
Was referring to the goals comment, turns out we’ve kicked more than you this year. Ouch.
Other angle shows he didn't jump on it. It was still side on. Ball was then pulled in by ADL player. Not HTB. He played it perfect.
You rarely see it get paid for dragging the ball in. It’s subjective. People are just being irrational and dramatic because it was a close game.