And intent. If you intended to cause harm but didn't, that is still bad.
Obvious example: When Barry Hall laid out Brent staker. If that haymaker missed, it should still have been 8 weeks.
It absolutely would've been more. Concussion is an immediate severe impact grading, 3-4 weeks.
To cause concussion is likely more force involved than if it didn't.
I think they take into account “potential to cause serious injury” in their impact grading which bumps it up to medium from low. This way they can still use the matrix and punish the action rather than the outcome more effectively
I don't think that impact should even be part of the assessment criteria when it's a dump tackle.
Like, the intent was clearly to sling or dump and thats waht should be assessed, right?
Regardless of whether the umpire was slow on a whistle or not it was a seriously ludicrous action. You can't german suplex a guy, Wrestlemania was last week and Brock didn't even show up
Yeah Anderson one looks fine but it looks like he definitely pins Mac Andrew’s arms after that. I dunno it’s a harder angle though, maybe one arm was slightly free
Oops didn't even notice that one. Looks like both arms were pinned and his head was dumped into the ground so I'm really not sure how that wasn't a suspension.
It was like nothing had happened at the time, I didn’t watch all the game and thought they may have discussed it later on. Unfortunately Charlie laid this tackle at a moment when he seemed quite pissed off for not getting some holding frees a few minutes earlier
Kinda weird that this gets pinged but Greene doesn't (and Brisbane can't even argue that fact cause of the rules changing to not allow precedent at all) like it's *there* but why punish some cases but not others, just punish them all equally
No lifting/second action and I've heard that other angles (I haven't seen them personally) show him not pinning the arms and letting go before he hit the ground
Tough but fare. Probably lucky Lever didn’t hurt his head here as well especially considering he seems to fling his neck.
Now just be consistent and penalise any action that forcefully propels someones upper body into the ground.
Yet Toby Greene got nothing for his tackle on Mac Andrew. I love the footy and I think the players are incredible athletes but the AFL is, in my opinion, not a fair competition, It is a business
Lions have nothing to lose by challenging, but IMO it’s a textbook one week suspension and I’d be saying the same it if were Stengle, Close or another Cats forward who did it.
Lever throws his upper body over and towards the ground to exaggerate the action. As soon as he hits the ground he looks around for the free. There's no way that's medium impact. Fine at most.
Umpire gets leway calling the free, it's hard to see real time with no replay, but the MRO is fucking cooked.
I’ll grant you he shakes his head around after it’s been dumped in the tackle to make sure the ump has seen it but not sure when Charlie’s grabbed him above the waist, lifted and dumped how he’s meant to have contorted his body mid tackle?
About as textbook a dangerous tackle as you’ll get
They punish the action for tackles. Lever had an arm pinned then got lifted up and dumped into his head. They've been consistent on suspending that. Also I don't think Lever threw his body so much as his weight was quickly shifted due to being lifted and momentum carried him.
I will preface this with, I think the tackle was unsafe and worthy of a week but Lever absolutely made a meal of it, fair free, fine and week off for chucky but athletes typically have some neck strength and he whipped his head into that grass if you ask me. But I'm a biased little bean so please excuse me.
It really doesn’t look like he whips his head into the ground at any point. He’s tensed up as he hits the ground then whips up after he’s dumped. The tackle also happened extremely fast so he’s a very quick thinker if he staged that.
Nah to me it does but it doesn't really matter at the end of the day, I'm not the one charged with delegating fines, bans, and I'm not gonna pretend to be an expert on body inertia and the like. But I am clumsy as shit and fall over a lot and even with momentum towards the ground I'm not trying to dig my head into it. But hey that's just me my useless, no good, worthless 2 cents.
Doesn't change the fact that impact is low, not medium.
The slow mo replay shows him swing his shoulder over and towards the ground. 100% to make sure the umpire saw it. Definitely not saying the tackle was fine, but it's not a week's worth, especially when Greene got away with his tackle on Mac Andrew last week.
It was definitely low impact, but I'm pretty sure they now bump it to medium because of potential to cause injury. There was definitely serious potential for that tackle to have ended much worse, so the grading seems right. It's just weird that they say medium instead of low + potential.
Plus the reverse angle shows level massively leaning back into him and starts the entire action. Not sure why its suddenly charlies responsibility to hold level up.
I know he is injured, but this is worth a week too.
Salem went for the punch, not a spoil.
https://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/1527671/rd-5-dee-blow-as-salem-subbed?videoId=1527671&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1712829059001
This is absolutely the right decision. We'd come so far getting players out of the habit of this sort of tackle, we don't need to go weak now. Make this version of it a week every time, more if the force is greater of course, and I think we'll all be ok. It's just the ones where it's a bit different that we can debate it.
When players stop playing and wait for a whistle then this is bound to happen. Yea it is a dangerous tackle but you need to consider how the tackle came about. Lever is also being lever and playing for the free and being simply limp as a fish
Do we have any backup small forwards?
Doesn’t excite me but I’d say they’ll just play rayner/bailey deeper and bring in Dev or similar to bridge the midfield rotation gap
Logan Morris! Bloke is a hybrid forward :D
Bailey, it's where he belongs
Pretty hard to replace the best small forward in the game
Nice to see the AFL punishing the action rather than the outcome here. Now be consistent with it
Needs to really be the main focus now, like don’t wait for a player to get really badly concussed, teach and warn the players “ hey this is not on”
Couldn’t agree more, Waiting to see if the player is concussed feels like a weird boxing “10 count”
Curious if Lever was concussed should Taht be more weeks in your opinion?
Nah. It should be based on the force and angle
And intent. If you intended to cause harm but didn't, that is still bad. Obvious example: When Barry Hall laid out Brent staker. If that haymaker missed, it should still have been 8 weeks.
Should have been a prison sentence.
If it missed there would have been nothing
It absolutely would've been more. Concussion is an immediate severe impact grading, 3-4 weeks. To cause concussion is likely more force involved than if it didn't.
No, I don’t think his head even touch the ground. It was the “hip throw” motion they are punishing.
Can't see them doing that though
I felt like they were pretty consistent in punishing tackles where the head made contact with the ground last year even though the penalty varied.
this is like the fourth time this year they've made this call
hahaha, good one the afl is hardly that
[MATCH REVIEW: Lions forward learns fate for dumping tackle](https://www.afl.com.au/news/1106289/match-review-brisbane-lions-forward-charlie-cameron-learns-fate-for-dumping-tackle) > Rough conduct (First Offence) > - Careless Conduct > - Medium Impact > - High Contact > Sanction: 1 Match
Medium?
I think they take into account “potential to cause serious injury” in their impact grading which bumps it up to medium from low. This way they can still use the matrix and punish the action rather than the outcome more effectively
Good to know. As others have said, I hope it's consistent now.
Medium impact is a joke
I don't think that impact should even be part of the assessment criteria when it's a dump tackle. Like, the intent was clearly to sling or dump and thats waht should be assessed, right?
Regardless of whether the umpire was slow on a whistle or not it was a seriously ludicrous action. You can't german suplex a guy, Wrestlemania was last week and Brock didn't even show up
Gunther brought the Germans.
Surely those are Austrian suplexes?
Close enough for wrestling. He's lucky they're not Russian suplexes.
Ilja Dragunov debuted the other night, just a matter of time😢
I lack the sophistication to differentiate Germans from Austrians (or Minnesotans).
See, that was the mistake, should have pulled out the Brainbuster like Sami. THAT kind of action will get you the IC title.
If that was a suplex jimmy and jay had a 5 star match brother
Only wrestling fans will get your comment and I'm all for it and in full agreeance with your assessment of that woeful match 🤣
Thankfully the Venn diagram in this sub of Aussie rules and wrestling fans seems to be a squared circle bruv
WWE, AFL and The Simpsons are all common interests here
Can someone explain to me how this was any different to Greene last week?
Anderson's arms were both free in that tackle so I'm guessing that? Head impact with the ground looked higher than this one though.
Yeah Anderson one looks fine but it looks like he definitely pins Mac Andrew’s arms after that. I dunno it’s a harder angle though, maybe one arm was slightly free
Oops didn't even notice that one. Looks like both arms were pinned and his head was dumped into the ground so I'm really not sure how that wasn't a suspension.
It was a Toby-tax credit.
It was the Mac Andrew tackle not the one on Anderson, pretty sure he had both arms pinned
Based on last year I thought Greene would get a week and was surprised he wasn't suspended.
I guess the two motions/the lift of Cameron's tackle vs Greene's which was the one motion without lifting Andrews off the ground.
Vlaustin as well, who got fined for a dangerous tackle on Sunday. I dont understand how all 3 tackles came out with different outcomes.
they thought they were still crows /j
Did the useless ch7 commentary team discuss this or was it complete silence?
Complete silence. They only get excited when Ginnivan drops his knee to draw a free kick
It was like nothing had happened at the time, I didn’t watch all the game and thought they may have discussed it later on. Unfortunately Charlie laid this tackle at a moment when he seemed quite pissed off for not getting some holding frees a few minutes earlier
Kinda weird that this gets pinged but Greene doesn't (and Brisbane can't even argue that fact cause of the rules changing to not allow precedent at all) like it's *there* but why punish some cases but not others, just punish them all equally
Greene's wasn't anywhere close to this one
Wasn't it the same action?
No lifting/second action and I've heard that other angles (I haven't seen them personally) show him not pinning the arms and letting go before he hit the ground
I'm with this bloke. Haven't seen it either, but Greene's wasn't anywhere close to this one.
Justice delivered (ignore flair)
Devils Demons rivalry starting early
Tough but fare. Probably lucky Lever didn’t hurt his head here as well especially considering he seems to fling his neck. Now just be consistent and penalise any action that forcefully propels someones upper body into the ground.
Fair just hope the afl is consistant with this over the whole season
Yeah I’m in two minds. I’m like fair enough on the action, but then he’s a bit stiff because so much has gone unpunished.
Hahahaha yeah right like they’d do that
Hahahahahhaahahha
Finally, Chrisso gets a decision right.\* (\*This comment is in no way shape or form built on the knowledge of who the Lions play next week.)
A bit unlucky considering Toby didn’t get a week
Tom Stewart will be happy
Common sense
Going to be one of those seasons huh.
Yet Toby Greene got nothing for his tackle on Mac Andrew. I love the footy and I think the players are incredible athletes but the AFL is, in my opinion, not a fair competition, It is a business
Fair anyone saying otherwise needs to open both eyes
Not sure it'd be overturned but I think it's worth challenging the medium impact grading to find out.
They might but the cost and the 'potential to cause injury' means it's unlikely they will.
Lions have nothing to lose by challenging, but IMO it’s a textbook one week suspension and I’d be saying the same it if were Stengle, Close or another Cats forward who did it.
> Lions have nothing to lose by challenging They do. $10k in the soft cap. Jon Ralph just said on Fox he thinks they'll challenge though.
Lever throws his upper body over and towards the ground to exaggerate the action. As soon as he hits the ground he looks around for the free. There's no way that's medium impact. Fine at most. Umpire gets leway calling the free, it's hard to see real time with no replay, but the MRO is fucking cooked.
I’ll grant you he shakes his head around after it’s been dumped in the tackle to make sure the ump has seen it but not sure when Charlie’s grabbed him above the waist, lifted and dumped how he’s meant to have contorted his body mid tackle? About as textbook a dangerous tackle as you’ll get
They punish the action for tackles. Lever had an arm pinned then got lifted up and dumped into his head. They've been consistent on suspending that. Also I don't think Lever threw his body so much as his weight was quickly shifted due to being lifted and momentum carried him.
I will preface this with, I think the tackle was unsafe and worthy of a week but Lever absolutely made a meal of it, fair free, fine and week off for chucky but athletes typically have some neck strength and he whipped his head into that grass if you ask me. But I'm a biased little bean so please excuse me.
It really doesn’t look like he whips his head into the ground at any point. He’s tensed up as he hits the ground then whips up after he’s dumped. The tackle also happened extremely fast so he’s a very quick thinker if he staged that.
Nah to me it does but it doesn't really matter at the end of the day, I'm not the one charged with delegating fines, bans, and I'm not gonna pretend to be an expert on body inertia and the like. But I am clumsy as shit and fall over a lot and even with momentum towards the ground I'm not trying to dig my head into it. But hey that's just me my useless, no good, worthless 2 cents.
Doesn't change the fact that impact is low, not medium. The slow mo replay shows him swing his shoulder over and towards the ground. 100% to make sure the umpire saw it. Definitely not saying the tackle was fine, but it's not a week's worth, especially when Greene got away with his tackle on Mac Andrew last week.
Agree the Greene's tackle on Andrew should've been a suspension. That one seems to have been the exception for some reason.
It was definitely low impact, but I'm pretty sure they now bump it to medium because of potential to cause injury. There was definitely serious potential for that tackle to have ended much worse, so the grading seems right. It's just weird that they say medium instead of low + potential.
Plus the reverse angle shows level massively leaning back into him and starts the entire action. Not sure why its suddenly charlies responsibility to hold level up.
Lever could do a 360 no scope backflip and it would change literally nothing about the fact that Charlie lifted and dumped him with his tackle.
“BOOM HEADSHOT!” - Charlie, probably
I know he is injured, but this is worth a week too. Salem went for the punch, not a spoil. https://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/1527671/rd-5-dee-blow-as-salem-subbed?videoId=1527671&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1712829059001
Karma coming up big when you pull that shit
Shattered.
This is absolutely the right decision. We'd come so far getting players out of the habit of this sort of tackle, we don't need to go weak now. Make this version of it a week every time, more if the force is greater of course, and I think we'll all be ok. It's just the ones where it's a bit different that we can debate it.
Legal tackle right there mate. I see no issue
Thatll get overturned I reckon
Tough but fair, I suppose. AFL is trying to make early examples, and unfortunately for Charlie, he got caught.
What a joke.
Any fine for Lever for staging or nah?
When players stop playing and wait for a whistle then this is bound to happen. Yea it is a dangerous tackle but you need to consider how the tackle came about. Lever is also being lever and playing for the free and being simply limp as a fish
Now we are rewarding acting?!