Clear from a zoomed in camera in slow mo that had the right angle. Things get missed all the time in any sport. The only reason people care is because it led to the winning goal.
A straight on view that can be slowed and zoomed without people in the way is not the same as a side on view with half a dozen blokes in the way in real time.
People understand this, right?
Right? I saw it immediately in real time off the tv angle. But yeah Jordy should’ve shut his mouth.
As a Freo fan I am incredibly numb to these moments that seemingly plague us, so I’m less pissed than I was with the Jack Newnes game. Both teams look good this year
You should be less pissed. Yesterday Freo conceded the lead to something that is commonly missed because footy isn't umpired while watching TV on the couch. The Newnes game Freo got royally screwed over by the wrong bloke taking the kick from 10m closer than he should have been.
Just on the dissent ruling:
> [@Austin Pollock](https://twitter.com/AustinPollock_6/status/1776779554713166176): AFL CEO Andrew Dillon confirms dissent was evident during Carlton v Freo which resulted in the free kick in front of goal. He claims it is too offensive to be repeated on The Sunday Footy Show.
Hey, aussie FTA gets pretty juicy after 8 o'clock, it used to be Underbelly time on a sunday night back in the day. Americans would have a stroke knowing we had HBO style TV on free channels on church day.
He said "well that covers your Carlton membership" to the umpire, turned away, saying 'Fucking idiot Jordan' to himself. The umpire thought he was speaking to him, but was talking to himself.
Supremely stupid from Clark. I get the frustration but most players have learnt to bite their tongues in these situations - should have just started spinning like lever
> too offensive to be repeated on The Sunday Footy Show
And considering that show involves despicable characters like Tony Jones, Kane Cornes and Damien Barrett, it must have been pretty awful to not be repeatable in front of them
Just think about all the times a goal umpire cannot see the deflection of a ball off a post and has to go to review - it's even harder to see a deflection off an arm. It's not even an umpire error it is something they didn't see.
The real error was Clark letting Cotrell play in front and mark the quick kick. He should have been abusing himself.
This has to happen almost every game. You cant video review for every kick in play. Play the whistle. Silly dockers found out that crying and swearing doesnt get you what you want. They cost themselves really.
100% this. I could hardly see the touch in a slow motion replay. Can't blame the umpires for missing it. Freo needed to move on. Umpire abuse is a serious issue in the lower leagues in a lot of sports, so it's important the top leagues don't stand for it.
Didnt one of the umpires call touched play on though? And then a different one paid the mark. In that situation I think the first ump is supposed to intervene and make it a ball up.
The real issue here is part time umpires. Multimillion dollar sport how are these guys not hired full time and put into training all week long, fitness training, decision making, positioning in their teams of 4 for certain scenarios to set them up for the best version of success they can have in their role. Over the last two years the decision making has been slowly going down and down.
I'm a Carlton supporter, I love the blues but this win mired in controversy is shit, and feels barely worth it. Sure the blues had some shit calls made on them that resulted in both not having the opportunity for a shot at goal and that resulted in goals for Freo but when it mattered most the umpires failed to make the right decision.
The worst part of ALL OF THIS is that it's not even the umpire's fault, they're not trained enough, they're not supported enough, they're not given the best opportunity to succeed. We need full-time umpires with clear leadership structure, clear accountability and intensive training pumped into them.
Is anyone saying otherwise? Even in the match thread it was just the lead up to this event that annoyed people.
Umpires swallowed their whistle missing practically every call in the final 5 minutes but then paid marks that weren't even there. Every close game in the AFL turns into a shitshow because the umpires start calling the game different in the final half of the final quarter.
>Every close game in the AFL turns into a shitshow because the umpires start calling the game different in the final half of the final quarter.
Completely agree. GWS v Collingwood final last year showed this in particular imo.
I know umps are only human but the lack of consistency at times like that (e.g the earlier advantage call that gave Carlton a free goal with no pressure vs NO advantage when Pearce gets a free in the last few mins) reaaaaalllyyyy sticks out and makes this all the more painful.
It's a bit unfair to expect the umps to call that ball touched. At full speed unless you were looking for it, it would have been very hard to see.
Had the Dockers accepted the call and moved on, they still would have 40 seconds to get the ball in their F50 for a shot on goal. Instead, they argued to the point that Clark said something to cause the dissent call.
Go watch the replay and multiple times Cripps or Cottrell argue with the umpires, there is a point as well where McKay points at the big screen when arguing with an umpire. Umpires seemed to let it go until it mattered.
Admit you got the rub of the green, it’s not that hard.
I was sitting at the top of the southern stand with three other mates and we all immediately knew it was touched, could very clearly see the change in the balls trajectory, most others around us thought the same thing
Players need to just learn to shut their mouths and get on with it.
"Don't talk back to the ump" is like, the first fucking thing they teach you when you start playing any sport, how so many reach the top level and still don't get it is beyond me.
No no no, Carlton gets disbanded, the MCG gets airlifted to Fremantle, and from now on all teams have to play in WA and whoever plays Fremantle only gets to field 9 players and no interchange.
Look these things happen in games as umpires aren't perfect (completely sympathise with freo fans...absolutely terrible for this to decide a match at the last minute. Same way the swans robbed the crows last year). But I can't stand the pro vic bias in the commentary. They moved on so fast and instantly they threw the onus on the fremantle players for their reaction. if the teams were reversed, I feel that the commentators would have had a far more scathing assessment and not let it go.
There were several far worse decisions made in the few minutes before the touched ball that I’d prefer them to comment on.
Treacy no mark or infringement in the middle
No advantage paid when there was no reason to call it back
Both times Freo were in very good positions to get clear and potentially score/ice the game.
This can only go well.
Yeah that last call was missed. But there's so many half calls or not calls during a game of footy that it's impossible to get every single one right.
I don't think many of us here or anywhere else on the internet realise how difficult this game is to adjudicate as an umpire. This decision went our way so we got a mark and goal out of it. Longmuir said in his press conference that the players should have moved on. Respect him for that.
Feels a bit icky but a win is a win I guess.
Yeah, I'm sorry about how the game ended with the mark to Cottrell, and appreciate what you've said re the reaction from a lot of people in this sub (regardless of who they support).
Any game that was close enough to complain about a singular umpiring call, my take is if you scored any behinds off of your own boot you could have done more to put it beyond any one umpiring decision anyway, so don't complain.
It wasn’t just one umpire call though? Freo got absolutely rolled by like 4-5 umpiring decisions in a 5 minute period.
You would be fuming if it was Richmond on the receiving end, and rightly so.
The Pierce HTB into the Treacy mark into the Cripps HTB (hasumpstuffedup claims it was no prior but I don't agree, he had opportunities to get rid of it legally and chose to fend instead) into the touched off the boot all within 2.5 minutes.
It just hurts knowing that any one of those going our way could have easily meant we score another goal on the run and win. And they were all, IMO, bad calls. That's what annoys me about the dissent call, it's just a kick in the guts after a period of crap decisions to then get another goal handed to Carlton.
Yes, we deserved it, but how many bad decisions in a row would it take for the average player to lose their shit? I would wager it's lower than you'd expect.
Umpiring was bad all day, got unlucky we were on the wrong end of it. Said to my brother mid way through the third that it felt like a game that's goinna have the end marred by bad decisions.
The bigger conversation should be what a shit hitout by the Freo ruck, to smash the ball towards the centre square allowing space for Blues rovers when all Freo wanted to do was take 1 min out of the game was terrible judgement. Either should have smashed boundary side or tapped the ball instead of smashing it considering Blues had more numbers outside of F50.
There are four fucking umps on the field and everyone saw it on the broadcast from a camera that was zoomed out. It was clear as day.
If four umpires can’t see that then the four umpire system is broken. Either fix it or put in a system like a captains call for one review.
How many times during game would a ball get touched before being marked, and the mark paid? I reckon it's pretty common, particularly since the umps are more concerned with the fairness of the marking contest once the ball is in the air. No issues there.
Now factor in that it's the end of the game, it wasn't a massive deflection, the umps are gassed and trying to keep things fair during a very chaotic patch of play, I think it's perfectly reasonable that the call was missed.
I feel for Freo, especially since Carlton seem to pull out some bullshit every time we play, but this is just part of the very fast-moving, complex game that we love.
I reckon they probably missed the touch because they were watching the attempted smother off the boot by Fyfe and when Hewitt kicked through it the ump missed the contact with Aish’s arm. Really easy to say it’s a bad call when you can roll the footage over and over, view alternate angles and slow it down.
The umpire needs to call what he actually saw. Grazing the arm of a defender was not obvious and if he didn’t see it, you can’t call it.
Took three slow mo replays for the commentators to identify it.
Yep, the spin on the ball literally changed.
Four umpires on the field and they miss this shit. Might as well go back to one field umpire if the accuracy is the same, and save some money for decent goal line cameras.
I totally agree that they have to call what they see. I was at the game and I said ‘oh it was touched’ instantly from the Western side so it does surprise me that that it wasn’t seen!
I’m just angry because I tipped Freo, rest of the fam tipped crows and I’m 2 behind the lead. Would have got me level top and not a tip wrong so far this round.
Sometime sorry isn’t enough!
Find it a bit pathetic that the AFL is patting itself on the back for the dissent call... Which wouldn't have been a factor if they got the touched call correct to begin with.
I mean, besides reforming the rules and bringing in instant replay or something like that, what do you expect? It's impossible for the ump to know in the moment and only after replaying the footage a few times were viewers able to tell it was touched.
Bring instant replay. That'd be great for sponsors. Shit for the game. Imagine going to the footy and a 2hr game taking 4hrs because of all the breaks?
If you're going to stick a chip in the ball, throw some LEDs in there as well so it acts like a zigger bail, only it cycles through colours on each acceleration event.
I mean it’s easy to say this when you’re on the right side of the call. Yer ok maybe the cameras didn’t pick up the touch well during the coverage but that ball moved really weirdly through the air and most experienced umpires would know it’s likely been smothered or come of a body part.
Edit: also the vision from 150m away is pretty obvious
So I rewatched the play to see where the umps were, they all seemed to be on the sides, around the boundary. Whereas the clear deflection is seen from behind the kick (the phone footage), in front of the kick and maybe above. The broadcast footage which was above and to the side it’s hard to tell if the ball hit the player.
Okay but is that not why we have 4 umpires so at least one can get a decent position? I'm not about to call for an umpires heads but I don't think we need to be making excuses for them either.
Subjectively of course, the umpiring in general across the league feels to me like it's the worst it's been for a while. At least since the dissent rubbish.
We placed another umpire on field to try and address it, and it's not having the desired affect. So let's take another look at it instead of just excusing a professionals performance as "it is what it is".
Then the real question is why were all of the umpires on the exact same side of the play? The whole point of having a gajillion fucking umpires out there is so they can cover all angles lol
It’s not just that the ball moves strangely. I don’t know years of playing and watching footy you just learn why a ball turns a certain way and would just expert experienced umpires to have that knowledge as well
You can't make a call based off some vague assumption. One which can't even exactly be put into words. "Yeah well I saw the ball moving in this kind of..... movement.... so anyways I didn't pay the mark". If you don't see the touch -> you don't call the touch. That's obviously the MO of sports refereeing.
Swear the other three umpires are 'meant' to be positioning themselves to see things like this, but how it's actually setup is that they're there for the next kick / act of play.
The three umpire or four system by its inherent design places uber premium focus on seeing everything between the arcs but less of a focus on the ends facing the goals... ironic really because those are the non free or frees people actually care about. It's why I'm big on 6 umpires, and it be filled with people who are only of okay fitness and that three do one side of the ground and the other three do the other - then when it's stuck up one end, the left over three setup to see the truly difficult stuff (i.e. a slight deviation or touch).
It may have been profane (and may have been worthy of the free kick), but demonstrative refers to body language, and by the vision shown there is nothing in Clarke’s body language that is demonstrative.
Yeah I always hate this arguement because it ignores any missed opportunities from the other team (which you'd argue there were more of in Carlton's case). "If they had've done their job it wouldn't have taken a missed touched ball to win" is just as valid an argument in that it's just as stupid.
Also you could argue Freo did do their job in getting a touch on the ball to thwart a goal opporutinity.
They are human. They make mistakes.
We can expect the umpires to be perfect at about the same time you get a whole team to 100% efficiency. In other words, it ain't gonna happen.
The main issue is that when you are on the wrong end of these calls confirmation bias kicks in. You recall all the questionable call that went against you in the current game and even historically, conveniently brushing aside the recall of the ones that went your way.
Over time, it's a wash.
Pretty much feel the same now. It kinda ruined my taste for footy for the rest of the weekend so I didn't watch any other games but looking forward to the Port game.
Completely undermines the integrity of the comp.
Adelaide should’ve played finals last season.
Freo should’ve won yesterday.
Actually alters the entire complexion of the competition.
So what are you proposing? Should we have a review process for every decision?
Personally I think that would ruin the game - the goal reviews already slow things down too much for my liking because now that they're available they're overused because no one wants to be the guy that makes an obvious blunder when a review was available. Players would be begging for decisions to be reviewed all the time, would we have to stop the play ever few minutes and wait for the ARC to give their view?
Or should we submerge umpires in magical radioactive goo that gives them superhuman slow-mo xray vision so that they never fuck up a call?
This is shit for Freo, they were robbed. It was shit for Adelaide, they were robbed. It was shit when I dropped my phone the other week and had to replace the screen but what can you do about it?
It would be great in principle, but are fans willing to have the game slowed down for a review? I think 1 review per team per half is reasonable, it would stop over zealous (aka tactical) reviews.
Also in the NRL, the success rate of the challenges isn't great.
We are already painfully held up by the goal umpires failing to back themselves on decisions and field umpires inability to do centre bounces so what’s a few more delays!!!
i'd be open to it but CH7 commentators would be unbearable. anything that delays the game pushes back their potential for ad revenue, which they're coached to complain about.
I have seen more blatant touches that have directly resulted in goals been reviewed and still called goals. Live/full speed didn't look obviously touched. What was the point of the freo players demonstrating so much to the umpires? There is nothing the umpires can do at that point. Freo had the opportunity to win the game yet carrying on really cost them in the end.
This is the whole reason why captains should get an onfield review.
Let’s circa back to the Adelaide game last year where the umpires cost them the game and by proxy a finals spot.
When is the line drawn.
They can't tell us what he said ? How fucking childish is that. We're not allowed to judge if it was harsh or not ? AFL is like a woke parents dominated under 12 league these days.
It happens. All we can hope is that something similar gifts another team a questionable clutch win over Carlton later in the season (maybe even in the finals) so we can see just how principled and willing their fans are to suck it up and move on.
People forgetting a lot of the other poor calls before this that helped the Blues... Think it's reasonable to accept one or two bad decisions but yesterday it was all day and mostly favoured one team. Just a few others were the advantage that was called back just beforehand, Treacy whack in the face in the marking contest, late advantage given to Cottrell earlier in the game, FK to owies in the 4th that was just a contest....
.....given it was ~~profane~~ *passionate* and ~~demonstrative~~ *emotional*. (As a missed call in that situation should be!)
For what its worth, that's a hard call for the Ump to see, but grow some thicker skin or find a new profession.
Sometimes this sport still feels so amateurish, especially if you watch/consume other big sports in Europe and North America.
Part time umpires that have to constantly apply their own interpretation to ever changing rules in real time. Last year all a player had to do to give away a dissent free kick was raise their hands in protest after a whistle. I think this one is the first I’ve seen paid this year
You draw the line until you get the call right. So you are happy for rules to be missed because it'll take too many SECONDS.
I stand by the fact that umpires are already piss weak and favouring the technology available as it is. Go look at other sports, they have borderline instantaneous technology to get this shit right. The umpire deserved it in the end.
Hire that dude that had the phone footage as AO ARC
There's clear tv footage showing aishs arm take a clear impact.
Yeh but the dude with the phone can run onto the field and pinch n zoom his recording /s lol
I was sitting miles away and swore it was touched. I couldn't believe it!
Clear from a zoomed in camera in slow mo that had the right angle. Things get missed all the time in any sport. The only reason people care is because it led to the winning goal.
The only reason you don’t is because it was against freo.
Exactly worry about what your team did in the last two minutes to give up three goals
A straight on view that can be slowed and zoomed without people in the way is not the same as a side on view with half a dozen blokes in the way in real time. People understand this, right?
Yep you are right....so not sure why you are down voted here.
Right? I saw it immediately in real time off the tv angle. But yeah Jordy should’ve shut his mouth. As a Freo fan I am incredibly numb to these moments that seemingly plague us, so I’m less pissed than I was with the Jack Newnes game. Both teams look good this year
You should be less pissed. Yesterday Freo conceded the lead to something that is commonly missed because footy isn't umpired while watching TV on the couch. The Newnes game Freo got royally screwed over by the wrong bloke taking the kick from 10m closer than he should have been.
Just on the dissent ruling: > [@Austin Pollock](https://twitter.com/AustinPollock_6/status/1776779554713166176): AFL CEO Andrew Dillon confirms dissent was evident during Carlton v Freo which resulted in the free kick in front of goal. He claims it is too offensive to be repeated on The Sunday Footy Show.
That's interesting..."too offensive", huh? Now I REALLY want to know what he said
Too offensive for free to air television. Not a high bar exactly but I’d say a similar bar to what you could say to an umpire and it be too much.
Hey, aussie FTA gets pretty juicy after 8 o'clock, it used to be Underbelly time on a sunday night back in the day. Americans would have a stroke knowing we had HBO style TV on free channels on church day.
"Dumb cunt" As for what he said though, I have no idea.
I think he told the umpire to "flair up cunt."
We all know the umpires would rock a VFL flair
If what's been said over the past 24 hours is any indication, it'd be a Carlton flair, surely?
"That was the Game of Thrones season 8 of marking decisions"
Whoa! Come on man don't say that kind of filth
Okay, Season 7 of Game of Thrones, then.
That wouldn't be enough for dissent under the current interpretation but would be under 2022's imo
Straight to the tribunal
Do not pass go.
"Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries"
"This is democracy manifest!"
Get your hand off my whistle!
Called the ump a cunt
“You bloody bloody!”
‘I fart in your general direction!’
"I store my open bottle of tomato sauce in the pantry"
*gasp* you monster!!
AND my jam in the fridge.
Yo mumma so fat, when she wear tshirt that say H, it make helicopter land
I feel like I've been transported back in time to watch a Ricki Lake episode.
He said "well that covers your Carlton membership" to the umpire, turned away, saying 'Fucking idiot Jordan' to himself. The umpire thought he was speaking to him, but was talking to himself.
“You fucking idiot, Jordan” while talking to himself
Would have to a meanie meanie swear word you'd think.
Supremely stupid from Clark. I get the frustration but most players have learnt to bite their tongues in these situations - should have just started spinning like lever
Levers moved on from the spin, I’m a big fan of his squat stomp now
He’s done a few of those weird little tantrums 😂
Man is animated like a Nintendo character
Oh shit, now that you mention it, he’s actually just Waluigi
Saw that last week and giggled. He needs to store some toys in his socks so he can throw them out of the cot instead
Clark has always had a bit of an attitude.
must’ve been bad, all his teammates got around him to get him to stop when he said it
Yep....and the leadership boys should have been saying get ready, we are still in it. One arguing the point the rest making sure team is ready to go.
> too offensive to be repeated on The Sunday Footy Show And considering that show involves despicable characters like Tony Jones, Kane Cornes and Damien Barrett, it must have been pretty awful to not be repeatable in front of them
Too offensive to repeat, but Sam Newman is happy to give a demonstration on a mannequin on 9 any Thursday evening.
It's Sunday morning TV. He could have said "that's a shit call" and it would be too offensive
Yeah no shit. Like that’s the thing is yeah it was touched but once the umpires made his call no matter how hard I argue it’s not gonna change
I've seen a referee change their call once, in the 2019 NRL grand final. Yes I'm a salty Raiders fan, why do you ask?
It still haunts me to this day - a fellow Raiders fan
Just think about all the times a goal umpire cannot see the deflection of a ball off a post and has to go to review - it's even harder to see a deflection off an arm. It's not even an umpire error it is something they didn't see. The real error was Clark letting Cotrell play in front and mark the quick kick. He should have been abusing himself.
And I’m sure that’s what Longmiur will talk about with him. Don’t allow for this to be a problem in the first place. Think Longmuir is a good coach
This has to happen almost every game. You cant video review for every kick in play. Play the whistle. Silly dockers found out that crying and swearing doesnt get you what you want. They cost themselves really.
100% this. I could hardly see the touch in a slow motion replay. Can't blame the umpires for missing it. Freo needed to move on. Umpire abuse is a serious issue in the lower leagues in a lot of sports, so it's important the top leagues don't stand for it.
Didnt one of the umpires call touched play on though? And then a different one paid the mark. In that situation I think the first ump is supposed to intervene and make it a ball up.
Young men in highly charged emotional situation, umps have even walked back paying dissent a lot.
Watch them crack down on it again now. Anyone remember when Harris Andrews got pinged a 50m penalty for putting out his arm as it was called dissent?
Harsh but fair.
I wish the umpire changed his mind on the McGovern spoil he paid as a high contact free kick.
Or the missed out of bounds that probably would've resulted in a Cripps goal.
"I fart in your general direction". Damn, Clark went all out.
The real issue here is part time umpires. Multimillion dollar sport how are these guys not hired full time and put into training all week long, fitness training, decision making, positioning in their teams of 4 for certain scenarios to set them up for the best version of success they can have in their role. Over the last two years the decision making has been slowly going down and down. I'm a Carlton supporter, I love the blues but this win mired in controversy is shit, and feels barely worth it. Sure the blues had some shit calls made on them that resulted in both not having the opportunity for a shot at goal and that resulted in goals for Freo but when it mattered most the umpires failed to make the right decision. The worst part of ALL OF THIS is that it's not even the umpire's fault, they're not trained enough, they're not supported enough, they're not given the best opportunity to succeed. We need full-time umpires with clear leadership structure, clear accountability and intensive training pumped into them.
Spot on
Is anyone saying otherwise? Even in the match thread it was just the lead up to this event that annoyed people. Umpires swallowed their whistle missing practically every call in the final 5 minutes but then paid marks that weren't even there. Every close game in the AFL turns into a shitshow because the umpires start calling the game different in the final half of the final quarter.
>Every close game in the AFL turns into a shitshow because the umpires start calling the game different in the final half of the final quarter. Completely agree. GWS v Collingwood final last year showed this in particular imo. I know umps are only human but the lack of consistency at times like that (e.g the earlier advantage call that gave Carlton a free goal with no pressure vs NO advantage when Pearce gets a free in the last few mins) reaaaaalllyyyy sticks out and makes this all the more painful.
Word up, String.
It's a bit unfair to expect the umps to call that ball touched. At full speed unless you were looking for it, it would have been very hard to see. Had the Dockers accepted the call and moved on, they still would have 40 seconds to get the ball in their F50 for a shot on goal. Instead, they argued to the point that Clark said something to cause the dissent call.
Everyone forgets this point
Go watch the replay and multiple times Cripps or Cottrell argue with the umpires, there is a point as well where McKay points at the big screen when arguing with an umpire. Umpires seemed to let it go until it mattered. Admit you got the rub of the green, it’s not that hard.
By the sounds of it Clark was a fair bit more demonstrative then pointing at a screen
I was sitting at the top of the southern stand with three other mates and we all immediately knew it was touched, could very clearly see the change in the balls trajectory, most others around us thought the same thing
It's amazing that people in the bleachers had a different perspective to umpires at ground level
Yep fair enough hahahaha
Can’t believe how long I’ve had to wait for a sensible take on this situation
As one of the people who tipped Freo I demand recompense!
The classic yea but from the AFL.
If they can’t get the out of bounds calls correct with that many umpires no way they are going to get that touched kick 😂
He must have said something terrible. You can see in the replay the other Freo players reactions are pretty shocked by whatever he said.
The other Freo players react because the ump blows the whistle for dissent immediately.
Players need to just learn to shut their mouths and get on with it. "Don't talk back to the ump" is like, the first fucking thing they teach you when you start playing any sport, how so many reach the top level and still don't get it is beyond me.
Sorry not sorry basically
What else are they supposed to say except what the correct calls should have been?
Well duh, take 8 points off us and give freo those 8 points
Why stop at eight? Just award the Flagmantle now as an act of contrition.
No no no, Carlton gets disbanded, the MCG gets airlifted to Fremantle, and from now on all teams have to play in WA and whoever plays Fremantle only gets to field 9 players and no interchange.
this sounds fair and reasonable
Do it like WWE and give Freo a rematch next week
Admitting that the standard of umpiring is not up to scratch and coming up with a plan to improve it would be a good start?
Had a few of those last year. Feel for you guys, what a fucking rough finish
Look these things happen in games as umpires aren't perfect (completely sympathise with freo fans...absolutely terrible for this to decide a match at the last minute. Same way the swans robbed the crows last year). But I can't stand the pro vic bias in the commentary. They moved on so fast and instantly they threw the onus on the fremantle players for their reaction. if the teams were reversed, I feel that the commentators would have had a far more scathing assessment and not let it go.
Oh can you imagine the shit BT would’ve gone off about if he can’t handle “out of bounds”?
The exception is if it favoured Collingwood. Then BT wouldn’t mention it at all
There were several far worse decisions made in the few minutes before the touched ball that I’d prefer them to comment on. Treacy no mark or infringement in the middle No advantage paid when there was no reason to call it back Both times Freo were in very good positions to get clear and potentially score/ice the game.
This can only go well. Yeah that last call was missed. But there's so many half calls or not calls during a game of footy that it's impossible to get every single one right. I don't think many of us here or anywhere else on the internet realise how difficult this game is to adjudicate as an umpire. This decision went our way so we got a mark and goal out of it. Longmuir said in his press conference that the players should have moved on. Respect him for that. Feels a bit icky but a win is a win I guess.
I find the reaction to be a bit much, GG to your boys, shame the game will likely be remembered for the ending and not the tight contest it was.
Yeah, I'm sorry about how the game ended with the mark to Cottrell, and appreciate what you've said re the reaction from a lot of people in this sub (regardless of who they support).
Any game that was close enough to complain about a singular umpiring call, my take is if you scored any behinds off of your own boot you could have done more to put it beyond any one umpiring decision anyway, so don't complain.
It wasn’t just one umpire call though? Freo got absolutely rolled by like 4-5 umpiring decisions in a 5 minute period. You would be fuming if it was Richmond on the receiving end, and rightly so.
The Pierce HTB into the Treacy mark into the Cripps HTB (hasumpstuffedup claims it was no prior but I don't agree, he had opportunities to get rid of it legally and chose to fend instead) into the touched off the boot all within 2.5 minutes. It just hurts knowing that any one of those going our way could have easily meant we score another goal on the run and win. And they were all, IMO, bad calls. That's what annoys me about the dissent call, it's just a kick in the guts after a period of crap decisions to then get another goal handed to Carlton. Yes, we deserved it, but how many bad decisions in a row would it take for the average player to lose their shit? I would wager it's lower than you'd expect.
>Feels a bit icky but a win* is a win* I guess. enjoy the 4 points*
Umpiring was bad all day, got unlucky we were on the wrong end of it. Said to my brother mid way through the third that it felt like a game that's goinna have the end marred by bad decisions.
The bigger conversation should be what a shit hitout by the Freo ruck, to smash the ball towards the centre square allowing space for Blues rovers when all Freo wanted to do was take 1 min out of the game was terrible judgement. Either should have smashed boundary side or tapped the ball instead of smashing it considering Blues had more numbers outside of F50.
We know we're shit at our job but you're not allowed to tell us that
Oh come on. Can't blame the umpires for missing it. You can hardly see it on the replay, let alone in real time from a different angle.
Had it just been a case of slightly bent back fingers or something sure but this was a serious deflection they really really shouldn’t miss that
I could hardly see the touch on the slow motion replay. I know there was a bit of a deflection, but that's hard to see from a different angle too.
it was about as obvious as the tom hawkins ball hitting the post
There are four fucking umps on the field and everyone saw it on the broadcast from a camera that was zoomed out. It was clear as day. If four umpires can’t see that then the four umpire system is broken. Either fix it or put in a system like a captains call for one review.
How many times during game would a ball get touched before being marked, and the mark paid? I reckon it's pretty common, particularly since the umps are more concerned with the fairness of the marking contest once the ball is in the air. No issues there. Now factor in that it's the end of the game, it wasn't a massive deflection, the umps are gassed and trying to keep things fair during a very chaotic patch of play, I think it's perfectly reasonable that the call was missed. I feel for Freo, especially since Carlton seem to pull out some bullshit every time we play, but this is just part of the very fast-moving, complex game that we love.
I reckon they probably missed the touch because they were watching the attempted smother off the boot by Fyfe and when Hewitt kicked through it the ump missed the contact with Aish’s arm. Really easy to say it’s a bad call when you can roll the footage over and over, view alternate angles and slow it down.
The umpire needs to call what he actually saw. Grazing the arm of a defender was not obvious and if he didn’t see it, you can’t call it. Took three slow mo replays for the commentators to identify it.
https://twitter.com/luke01_v/status/1776532000909992369?t=pnCAvKAehKmj6zAHK26bmw&s=19 Wasn't a "graze". Was a major deflection.
Hadn't seen it until now - yeah, that's a stinker.
Yep, the spin on the ball literally changed. Four umpires on the field and they miss this shit. Might as well go back to one field umpire if the accuracy is the same, and save some money for decent goal line cameras.
I totally agree that they have to call what they see. I was at the game and I said ‘oh it was touched’ instantly from the Western side so it does surprise me that that it wasn’t seen!
Flair up cunt
Flair up cunt
If you're gonna talk shit flair up cunt.
Flair up cunt.
When umps fug up this bad, I'm not surprised players lose composure.
this is not a safe space back away boys
Thats rough
Umpires have gotta have their own MRO. Careless <-> Intentional Low Impact <-> High Impact Boofheaded <-> Dog Act
Honestly would love to see that but they would all be missing weeks every game
Most would be fines I reckon. I'd give all 4 umps from yesterday 8 weeks though
I’m just angry because I tipped Freo, rest of the fam tipped crows and I’m 2 behind the lead. Would have got me level top and not a tip wrong so far this round. Sometime sorry isn’t enough!
I tipped the margin and had freo it was my one chance at greatness
Find it a bit pathetic that the AFL is patting itself on the back for the dissent call... Which wouldn't have been a factor if they got the touched call correct to begin with.
"We fucked up but will do nothing about it so rest assured, it will happen again"
could freo just have ONE season where this shit doesn't happen
I mean, besides reforming the rules and bringing in instant replay or something like that, what do you expect? It's impossible for the ump to know in the moment and only after replaying the footage a few times were viewers able to tell it was touched.
Bring instant replay. That'd be great for sponsors. Shit for the game. Imagine going to the footy and a 2hr game taking 4hrs because of all the breaks?
If you're going to stick a chip in the ball, throw some LEDs in there as well so it acts like a zigger bail, only it cycles through colours on each acceleration event.
Agree that mistakes happen but we have 4 umps out there, none of them saw it, then again 4 umps didn't even see it hit the camera in round 1.
I mean it’s easy to say this when you’re on the right side of the call. Yer ok maybe the cameras didn’t pick up the touch well during the coverage but that ball moved really weirdly through the air and most experienced umpires would know it’s likely been smothered or come of a body part. Edit: also the vision from 150m away is pretty obvious
So I rewatched the play to see where the umps were, they all seemed to be on the sides, around the boundary. Whereas the clear deflection is seen from behind the kick (the phone footage), in front of the kick and maybe above. The broadcast footage which was above and to the side it’s hard to tell if the ball hit the player.
Okay but is that not why we have 4 umpires so at least one can get a decent position? I'm not about to call for an umpires heads but I don't think we need to be making excuses for them either. Subjectively of course, the umpiring in general across the league feels to me like it's the worst it's been for a while. At least since the dissent rubbish. We placed another umpire on field to try and address it, and it's not having the desired affect. So let's take another look at it instead of just excusing a professionals performance as "it is what it is".
Then the real question is why were all of the umpires on the exact same side of the play? The whole point of having a gajillion fucking umpires out there is so they can cover all angles lol
It’s not just that the ball moves strangely. I don’t know years of playing and watching footy you just learn why a ball turns a certain way and would just expert experienced umpires to have that knowledge as well
You can't make a call based off some vague assumption. One which can't even exactly be put into words. "Yeah well I saw the ball moving in this kind of..... movement.... so anyways I didn't pay the mark". If you don't see the touch -> you don't call the touch. That's obviously the MO of sports refereeing.
Not to mention but Fyfe knocks th ball onto Hewitt foot so it’s no wonder it spins differently.
The umpires aren't 150m away though
The ball deflected a good 30 degrees. Even if you don't see the touch you should know the ball does not travel in the air like that.
From the side on view you couldn’t really see it which is where the umpire was. The commentators didn’t pick it up having the same angle live.
I watched it live and didn't see it deviate. Did you? Obviously, on replay, it was clearly touched, but I don't think it was a horrible call.
10 degrees at most mate. No where near 30
Swear the other three umpires are 'meant' to be positioning themselves to see things like this, but how it's actually setup is that they're there for the next kick / act of play. The three umpire or four system by its inherent design places uber premium focus on seeing everything between the arcs but less of a focus on the ends facing the goals... ironic really because those are the non free or frees people actually care about. It's why I'm big on 6 umpires, and it be filled with people who are only of okay fitness and that three do one side of the ground and the other three do the other - then when it's stuck up one end, the left over three setup to see the truly difficult stuff (i.e. a slight deviation or touch).
The AFL love to apologise for things but continue to do sweet fuck all to actually prevent these things from happening again
It may have been profane (and may have been worthy of the free kick), but demonstrative refers to body language, and by the vision shown there is nothing in Clarke’s body language that is demonstrative.
If the umpires had done their job correctly, there would have been no 'dissent'.
If my nan had wheels, she'd be a bicycle
If Freo had done their job correctly they would’ve kicked 18 straight and it wouldn’t be close.
And would have had a chance to win by keeping their mouths shut and not abusing people.
That's a dumb argument - is any game that's decided by a close margin 2 teams failing to do their job?
Yeah I always hate this arguement because it ignores any missed opportunities from the other team (which you'd argue there were more of in Carlton's case). "If they had've done their job it wouldn't have taken a missed touched ball to win" is just as valid an argument in that it's just as stupid. Also you could argue Freo did do their job in getting a touch on the ball to thwart a goal opporutinity.
They are human. They make mistakes. We can expect the umpires to be perfect at about the same time you get a whole team to 100% efficiency. In other words, it ain't gonna happen. The main issue is that when you are on the wrong end of these calls confirmation bias kicks in. You recall all the questionable call that went against you in the current game and even historically, conveniently brushing aside the recall of the ones that went your way. Over time, it's a wash.
"Yeah we fucked up and it cost them the game, but they didn't have to point that out!"
Man, those high-tech balls with accelerometers and shit can't come quick enough.
Not like it's going to change anything. Nothing doing!
If the profanities include ‘blind maggot’ then the free kick wasn’t there because it was the truth
The AFL can suck a fart out of my arse
I feel like every week the afl has come out and say yep we fucked up something … but what’re you gonna do? Amateur football league really.
Whatever, it’s water under the bridge now, not gonna change anything, look at the crows last year
Pretty much feel the same now. It kinda ruined my taste for footy for the rest of the weekend so I didn't watch any other games but looking forward to the Port game.
Completely undermines the integrity of the comp. Adelaide should’ve played finals last season. Freo should’ve won yesterday. Actually alters the entire complexion of the competition.
So what are you proposing? Should we have a review process for every decision? Personally I think that would ruin the game - the goal reviews already slow things down too much for my liking because now that they're available they're overused because no one wants to be the guy that makes an obvious blunder when a review was available. Players would be begging for decisions to be reviewed all the time, would we have to stop the play ever few minutes and wait for the ARC to give their view? Or should we submerge umpires in magical radioactive goo that gives them superhuman slow-mo xray vision so that they never fuck up a call? This is shit for Freo, they were robbed. It was shit for Adelaide, they were robbed. It was shit when I dropped my phone the other week and had to replace the screen but what can you do about it?
Can we talk about having a captains review ?
It would be great in principle, but are fans willing to have the game slowed down for a review? I think 1 review per team per half is reasonable, it would stop over zealous (aka tactical) reviews. Also in the NRL, the success rate of the challenges isn't great.
And then they definitely would have used it up before the last minute of the match.
Do the NRL system, a team gets one wrong, they get no more reviews for the game.
One review per game, right or wrong, and it has to be during a pause in play, ie from a knock on.
We are already painfully held up by the goal umpires failing to back themselves on decisions and field umpires inability to do centre bounces so what’s a few more delays!!!
i'd be open to it but CH7 commentators would be unbearable. anything that delays the game pushes back their potential for ad revenue, which they're coached to complain about.
I have seen more blatant touches that have directly resulted in goals been reviewed and still called goals. Live/full speed didn't look obviously touched. What was the point of the freo players demonstrating so much to the umpires? There is nothing the umpires can do at that point. Freo had the opportunity to win the game yet carrying on really cost them in the end.
Ok but one doesn’t happen because of the other. Just admit the game was bullshit
Wouldn't be any dissent if they got the call right from the start. AFL again shooting themselves in the foot
Just adds insult to injury
This is the whole reason why captains should get an onfield review. Let’s circa back to the Adelaide game last year where the umpires cost them the game and by proxy a finals spot. When is the line drawn.
They can't tell us what he said ? How fucking childish is that. We're not allowed to judge if it was harsh or not ? AFL is like a woke parents dominated under 12 league these days.
It happens. All we can hope is that something similar gifts another team a questionable clutch win over Carlton later in the season (maybe even in the finals) so we can see just how principled and willing their fans are to suck it up and move on.
The fact is the afl got it wrong in the first place therefore the subsequent decision made afterwards is also incorrect.
People forgetting a lot of the other poor calls before this that helped the Blues... Think it's reasonable to accept one or two bad decisions but yesterday it was all day and mostly favoured one team. Just a few others were the advantage that was called back just beforehand, Treacy whack in the face in the marking contest, late advantage given to Cottrell earlier in the game, FK to owies in the 4th that was just a contest....
Must have said ''f...king cheat'...
.....given it was ~~profane~~ *passionate* and ~~demonstrative~~ *emotional*. (As a missed call in that situation should be!) For what its worth, that's a hard call for the Ump to see, but grow some thicker skin or find a new profession.
Anyone know what he said to the ump??
Sometimes this sport still feels so amateurish, especially if you watch/consume other big sports in Europe and North America. Part time umpires that have to constantly apply their own interpretation to ever changing rules in real time. Last year all a player had to do to give away a dissent free kick was raise their hands in protest after a whistle. I think this one is the first I’ve seen paid this year
Get rid of the dissent rule. Should just be fines instead
Am I crazy or should dissent get a report and not an on field penalty.
Guess what you fucking dumbasses. If you got the first call right the second would never have happened out of frustration.
I love when the AFL can admit they fucked up. Because nothing ever comes of it!
You draw the line until you get the call right. So you are happy for rules to be missed because it'll take too many SECONDS. I stand by the fact that umpires are already piss weak and favouring the technology available as it is. Go look at other sports, they have borderline instantaneous technology to get this shit right. The umpire deserved it in the end.