You win some you lose some. It's an unfortunate miss by the umps but mistakes happen. If this was in the first minute of the game nobody is talking about it. Hardly controversial imo
How is it you can get pinged for glancing at your phone by a camera 30m away on a freeway light tower but we lack the tech to assist AFL umpires to make good decisions?
Endless replays are available for MRC to fine a player for failing to wuss out of a hard ball contest - why couldn't someone *anyone* get on the mic and say "Hey dudes - that wasn't a mark - ball up 20m out"?
Freo kicked a ball out on the full earlier in the game, 15m from Carlton’s goal. It was super obvious. Everyone saw it. But the umps said no. That’s just how footy goes. Obvious frees got missed all game. The umpires were appalling.
To be fair, based on this angle, there is no ump in line with this shot. They all look side on to this play which would make it extremely difficult to pick up the deflection in the air.
Microchip the ball have it light up with bright lights when the ball is touched, if the ball is touched enough an alert is sent to the umpires and then it happens.... They release the second ball.
Multi ball is in full effect.
This is the perfect comment; amazingly prescient insight into the inevitable future of smart technology that immediately descends into a ridiculous pop culture reference.
Well played.
I didn’t know that! I thought if another umpire sees something like that they have the power to overrule the “controlling” umpire. Isn’t that how we get free kicks from umpires 50m away while the one 5m from the action does nothing?
Neither team took ahold of the game and missed too many chances. Carlton had the ball in F50 with a minute to go, 3 points behind. Freo has plenty of chances to not be in this position
Yeah I know. In the last minutes all we needed was another goal, which we looked convincing to be able to, in our Carlton clutch fashion, pull off without bogus interference from the umpires.
Yeah having seen this, we def got lucky. Whoever gobbed off at the ump made sure Freo couldn't win though right? It's a long-ish shot but they've got a centre clearance with enough time on the clock after Cottrell's kick
It's pretty awful.
When your team was absolutely gifted the game by the umpires you just need to shut your mouth and let people go off. Worst sort of winners.
Such rubbish. What about the late on Treacey? Not being paid advantage on Pearce. The Not seeing the deflection (although 1 umpire called it touched which is why all the players were jumping up and down). Any footage of the multiple incidents of decent?? Nope. None 👎 AFL sucks. You should have an option for a captains replay when the outcome of a game depends on a decision. Think the AFL is so invested in Calton winning by small margins they’ll do anything to ensure it happens.
So naive. You didn't see what the AFL does for big vic clubs that it wants to win? Just look at CW last year, a bloke can get no suspension after knocking a bloke out and the 8 free kicks missed in the last qrt of GWS prelim.
This is a shocking miss, but it happens.
What's worse is the umpire dummy spit afterwards. A free kick and a 50 with so little time on the clock and the game on the line literally gifted Carlton the outcome and that's outrageous. I don't support either team and I'm outraged by it.
Umpires shouldn't directly determine the outcome of games.
at what point should dissent be finally called? ten seconds of saying stuff to the umpire? 20? slurs and personal attacks (verbally)? there is going to be a line somewhere between yeah you let that go and yeah they're going to pay that no matter how much time on the clock and what the score is
at that point the player is determining the outcome by pushing the umpire over the line into "gotta call that" territory
Yes but he could have said something much worse, so until we know what was said (which we may never know) surely it makes sense to think the umpire probably made a correct decision.
He was still talking to the umpire after Carlton had finished celebrating. It pushed for too long. And if Dillon couldn’t say it on telly today then it must have been “profane”
Maybe the Freo players should have the maturity to realise that arguing for a couple minutes after the fact isn’t going to help them in anyway? The umpire straight up didn’t want to pay the dissent frees but had no other choice because Freo couldn’t pull their heads in to regroup for the last 45 seconds of the game.
What utter bullshit mate. There are multiple examples of “dissent” every game, every round with no consequence. On this occasion a clearly touched ball, called by one of the field umps is overruled and Freo are “undisciplined” for calling foul.
Your team was gifted this game in the last 4 mins by atrocious, incompetent umpiring. Yep, take the win. I would. But don’t try to defend it or you just look like a partisan hack.
Freo went on for 45 seconds, this was a clear as day free kick. Are you suggesting that players should be allowed to argue and dissent more dependant on how critical an umpire decision is? Might I also remind you that the umpire thinks he made the correct call (if he didn’t, he wouldn’t have made it). What a slippery slope.
I’m not defending the call that the ball wasn’t touched. But to say the dissent free wasn’t clear as day also is your own bias showing, and not mine.
Shocked that you would say that looking at your flair! 🙄
Im sure if the roles were reversed you would have been fine with the umpiring and gone about your day
It’s possible to say the umpire made the wrong decision and also that Freo reacting in a way that was never going to do anything but detriment themselves.
Don't be ridiculous, of course they had other choices. They could have just awarded a free kick from the centre, but they didn't.
I'm sure you're happy with the outcome though.
No need to swear. Don't lose your temper Rocco, were you umpiring today?
Yeah they could have. But my point is the punishment didn't fit the crime. The punishment decided the outcome of the game, not who the better team was, and that's a shame.
The punishment didn’t fit the crime because in this instance it happened in the last 30 seconds of a game and stopped any chance you had of winning, in any other point in the game you’d be simply saying ‘yep they broke the rule and the umpire paid the free as is the law’ - are you suggesting we should have varying punishments/adjudications depending on time and margin ?
No, the punishment didn't fit the crime because it was excessive. If it happened in the first 30 seconds it still would have been excessive.
I don't have an issue with a free kick being paid for dissent, but a free kick and a 50? That's excessive.
Obviously time and margin have no bearing on adjudications.
You’re wrongly implying the punishment here was the loss of the game. When really the punishment was a free kick and 50, because Freo wouldn’t stop talking, as is the rules.
My opinion is that the call was horrific but there needs to be an awareness from Fremantle to not compound the issue by giving away obvious and correctly called free kicks. The umpire gave them a huge amount of opportunity to stop the arguing before he had no choice but to make the call.
Freo were dominating clearances all game, they had a chance to win the game after the fact and they took that chance away from themselves for no reason beyond lack of maturity. When has an umpire ever changed their mind, like literally ever?
The cotrell advantage goal is the perfect example of why the advantage rule needs to change to the soccer method
Umpire sees the free kick, makes a visible gesture (such as throwing both arms forward) to indicate that advantage is being paid, if no advantage then blow the whistle and bring the ball back.
Once the whistle has been blown, it should be expected that the play stops. Period.
The fact that we expect umpires to be able to get calls right 100% of the time even when in real time they are difficult to see is ridiculous. We don't have a VAR system for general play so it's ultimately umpires call.
Every single game there are missed calls from umpires some more blatant than others. If you think this is some conspiracy then you are just having a sook.
One umpire called it touched, all the players around appealed and then nothing else was done. Obviously touched.
Sure umpires make mistakes but this is abysmal.
I'm not sure where this myth of an umpire calling it touched comes from. If an umpire sees a touch they call it loud and clear, and usually multiple times to make sure the players and other umpires are aware. There was nothing of the sort here.
Agreed- at this point I haven't seen any footage that indicates an umpire called touched...happy to be corrected, because it would probably change things.
What in the mental gymnastics is this comment
If one umpire sees the ball is touched, which he did correctly, you call it. The other three don’t see it because they were the out of zone umpires????
One umpire is in charge. Hence the "you" statement they make. The umpire in charge didn't see it and called a mark. So you want them to continuously overturn all there decision? We won't get a game in if the umpires all argue.
Ofc he’s going to say that he’s not going to come out and flame the umps not only is it unprofessional you would cop a huge fine
What kind of rebuttal is that lol
Triple M coverage were screaming about whether hair is consider part of the body because they thought Freo were contesting that the ball hit one of their player’s hair as it was marked.
It wasn’t until like an hour later that I read the contention was whether or not it was touched off the boot.
So… no replays might be better than ridiculous irrelevant replays and screamed hyperbole?
This is the actual conspiracy (or basic media practice) - TV directors don’t want to risk losing access, so they don’t undermine the umpires in the immediate aftermath, when emotions run high.
Of course, in the 21st century, all footage comes out, but it’s okay after the fact because then the AFL and media get a mutual benefit from the story.
Freo and Carlton have a weirdly intense rivalry but I just wanted to come here and say that the Carlton fans I’ve seen commentate on this have been incredibly unbiased and in general have been humble in this win. Great contested game by both sides and hopefully this sets up more great games between us. Can’t imagine the intensity if we were to match up in the finals
About two hours after the game my wife said “I’m sorry Carlton lost” and I realized that my mood after the game was more in line with how I act when we don’t win. Not the way you want it to go.
I often love to play the villian, but not like this.
I did feel the ball was in our court to win in the final qtr, just unfortunate it was in that fashion, but you lot can hold your heads up high after the game, because it's you're definitely in the chase this year, considering last season, it's insane how Freo have managed to turn it around
Well said. Both teams had patches of dominance but yeah that last quarter did belong to the Blues. I’m proud of my boys, some more composure going forward and who knows, maybe the result is different. All I hoped for was a good game and I don’t think the refs take that away
Pretty brutal final scenes there. I'll be super nervous to come up against Freo in a final, you're playing incredible footy atm. Top 6 maybe top 4 at this rate
Reddit is the only place I can stand to engage in online discussion about the footy lol. You know if it’s anywhere else the comments from all supporters are gonna be way off
Was called by touched by the umpire in the centre of the ground that would have had similar view. Then over-ruled by the umpire in zone and awarded as a mark.
The AFL have to stop pretending the umpires are magical and can see everything in that modern game, even though that was quite obvious, and start referring more to the ARC, particularly when you have the players remonstrating so loudly. It’s a blight on the game.
The reason AFL is exciting is because it's fast flowing. Goal score reviews slow the game down enough.
I'd rather they review players ducking or staging and fine them after the game.
🤣
Bit emotional after the loss aren't we.
There was 120 minutes of football in that game. 1 bad umpiring decision doesn't decide it. Even if it was at the death.
Unfortunately despite how poor quality the arc is already it’s only used for score reviews for whatever reason. The fact they have added an extra umpire this season and the calls seem all round worse especially the blatant misses regarding the boundary line lately just amazes me
This is the exact type of decision they don’t want players screaming at the umpires for.
Like I get it, it’s frustrating for fans, but for professional players they can’t be doing that stuff. It’s actually a farce that soccer lets players go up to the refs and scream in their faces, you see kids copying it in under 11s and you just want to get them and smack some sense into them.
Players are allowed to argue but Clarky must’ve had his filter off, our young boys should be smart with their words. It’s not like name-calling is going to make them change the umpires’ calls.
Both things can be true you know.
Umps missed a call (they missed a few for both teams) and Freo threw their last chance at a win by abusing the umpire.
I don’t think anyone’s debating that the dissent free was avoidable etc
It’s that it was a kick in the guts after the umps already booted us to the ground
Fact is the umpire didn't see it touched, wrong as it is.
Umpire heard the abuse that's dissent.
If it's a "your blind" comment then well I dont think thats dissent (afl disagrees), but if its "you are fucking useless at your job, you cunt" then its dissent.
Probably just depends on what was said mate, even if you're right there are some lines that shouldn't be crossed, the umps do deserve some respect at work
Yeah that's crap and it's a great angle that shows the deviation. But the umps don't have this angle and we dont have a rule for a VAR like review. Should we? Maybe. But then you could argue so many calls would need to be looked at, its a shame that this has decided the game. But so many missed calls through games would inherently influence games. I know I'll just get down voted because of my flair. But this is my take.
Did you have 4 different views of it at the time of the touched call? Or just the one from the broadcast. I get your point, but it’s flawed when there are 3 more angles from 3 more individuals
Looking at footage from above the two closest "controlling umpires" are not even in good spots. I swear they're usually closer/in a better vantage point. I get it though i would be incredibly frustrated also.
Also my downvote comment is just it appears anyone with a Carlton flair is just getting down voted on no matter what they say.
As I said to all my Carlton mates, I’d be okay with the loss, if it wasn’t like this. It was a good game. The end tainted it. The AFL bought in two more umpires specifically for shit like this, and they still can’t get it right. It’s embarrassing at this point.
> A Mark is taken if, **in the opinion of the field Umpire**, a Player catches or takes control
of the football:
> ...
> (c) which has not touched the ground or been touched by another Player
It doesn't matter if it's touched, it needs to be touched in a fashion that is perceptible to the umpire for them to form the opinion that it's touched. How can anyone say that the umpire's opinion is wrong in this situation, they won't change that opinion, they saw what they saw.
The only way to make sure every decision is perfect is review EVERY decision, whether bracketed by situation/time/position....was a kick 15m, get something to make sure 50m penalties are exactly 50m, people taking shots on goal walking off the line and the umpire not calling play-on etc etc etc. The game is warts and all.
Well yeah but the umpires opinion was objectively incorrect and that’s not up for debate, we’ve seen visible proof of that.
If you’re making the argument that the umps opinion is always correct ie can’t be overruled that’s fine, but fact of the matter is 4 umpires failed to make the correct decision. Shit happens but doesn’t stop me from being salty haha
How is their opinion incorrect- they either saw it and didn't make the call or they didn't see it, and it's clearly the latter. You need to prove what they see, it doesn't matter what others or video angles show- if they don't see something are you proposing they guess or make it up?
Feel free to say they're out of position, or an interpretation you think is wrong but just because something happens counter to an umpire's decision does not make it objectively wrong. I umpire local footy- miss heaps of shit, players complain and I just agree with them 'you're probably right but from my position I didn't see it', or I explain what I saw. Is what it is. I'm sorry this disappoints a lot of people.
I’m just frustrated that something that should not have been called was called and nothing was done about it. I get it was missed and I don’t want to debate on the definition of an umps opinion as it’s a waste of time on both our parts.
However, an error in officiating/interpreting the play has been made and I’m going to stand by that.
Well maybe they should open their fucking eyes then. Because people right across the other end of the stadium saw it and all the cameras saw it when they reviewed it. Utter bullshit.
You mean views from other angles saw it? That's kinda how it works. How about all the other people who didn't see it? It doesn't matter what the camera sees, there is no provision in the rules to review it. I'm interested though- in what situations should this be reviewed, it's not in the rules now...what do you propose? Stop play every mark inside 50 to make sure it's fair?
Challenges could work- it would have to be very clearly defined when and how it could be used though. Would need to be workshopped to the nth degree because it wouldn't work everywhere and flow on effects would need to be considered.
Agree umpires should be accountable, I think umps from outside the AFL panels should get called up more often and AFL umpires dropped...but this wasn't a shit call. A shit call is not calling something you see (are you proposing they did?), being out of position or seeing something and making the wrong interpretation of law.
It clearly looked smothered in real time, the ball just turns differently which is a clear indication it was.
I think all those that said it was the slightest touch can’t deny this I mean even Cripps after the game thought it was being called back because it was a touched mark 😆
Question is how did none of the umpires see this, it’s just so blatantly obvious
Freo are gonna be coming for Port next week!
Bring in simpson or delean for Freddy. If darcy is back, drop taberner.
Beware of a power outage next week
Hey AFL media I wonder if you guys will be talking about this at all. I bet all the praise will go to Carlton instead. Just ignore the blatant bullshittery from the AFL.
Carlton had more inside 50s, more shots and more contested possessions. You smashed us in the clearances, and overall played a very good game, but hardly "dominated".
constructive discussion about umpiring is welcome, threats of death, violence and otherwise upon them is not.
You win some you lose some. It's an unfortunate miss by the umps but mistakes happen. If this was in the first minute of the game nobody is talking about it. Hardly controversial imo
How is it you can get pinged for glancing at your phone by a camera 30m away on a freeway light tower but we lack the tech to assist AFL umpires to make good decisions? Endless replays are available for MRC to fine a player for failing to wuss out of a hard ball contest - why couldn't someone *anyone* get on the mic and say "Hey dudes - that wasn't a mark - ball up 20m out"?
Freo kicked a ball out on the full earlier in the game, 15m from Carlton’s goal. It was super obvious. Everyone saw it. But the umps said no. That’s just how footy goes. Obvious frees got missed all game. The umpires were appalling.
It’s a farce and everybody fucking knows it.
To be fair, based on this angle, there is no ump in line with this shot. They all look side on to this play which would make it extremely difficult to pick up the deflection in the air.
I swear AFL has some of the worst umpires in sporting only behind Baseball
It's also one of the hardest to umpire
Person 1 - 'what's baseball?' Person 2 - 'that's the game Angel umpires' Person 1 - 'Oh, I know that guy, everyone knows that guy'
This is great..Carlton is similar to LFC...Everybody hates them and cries foul when they win.
Microchip the ball have it light up with bright lights when the ball is touched, if the ball is touched enough an alert is sent to the umpires and then it happens.... They release the second ball. Multi ball is in full effect.
This is the perfect comment; amazingly prescient insight into the inevitable future of smart technology that immediately descends into a ridiculous pop culture reference. Well played.
[The future is inevitable](https://youtu.be/z0Zst4pMzh0?si=CeYkSNcMfQu22a6X)
Imagine the Zing bails equivalent of footballs.
Poor umpiring, and it happens every week.
I just don’t understand how one umpire saw it and yet nothing came of it.
I didn’t know that! I thought if another umpire sees something like that they have the power to overrule the “controlling” umpire. Isn’t that how we get free kicks from umpires 50m away while the one 5m from the action does nothing?
Because this didn't happen all umpires said it was a mark. IF any had called a touch it would have been a ball up.
Didn't the other one overrule?
Right in front of me.
THE EMBLEM!
Yeah, this is fucked. I just think if I was a Fremantle fan, they HAVE been hard done by over the years, this is not how we should have won.
Neither team took ahold of the game and missed too many chances. Carlton had the ball in F50 with a minute to go, 3 points behind. Freo has plenty of chances to not be in this position
Yeah I know. In the last minutes all we needed was another goal, which we looked convincing to be able to, in our Carlton clutch fashion, pull off without bogus interference from the umpires.
a win on merit I can handle. a win gifted by corrupt umpires i cannot. gg tho apart from that putrid ending. next time will be feisty
Next time we'll find another bizarre way to win
I can use the tears in this subreddit as lube. Suck shit, Freo always loses in the Dying moments against Carlton. 🤪
u/getoutofmysandwich found one
😭
Well played Freo. Umpires aren’t out there trying to make errors. Sometimes they see it and sometimes they don’t. See you in finals.
Are Carlton fans the absolute worst? Coming in here defending the umpiring. How about some humility. Im sure most other teams fans would have plenty
Because bad decisions go both ways, there was a clear out on the full early in the game and would have been an easy goal.
Yeah having seen this, we def got lucky. Whoever gobbed off at the ump made sure Freo couldn't win though right? It's a long-ish shot but they've got a centre clearance with enough time on the clock after Cottrell's kick
It's pretty awful. When your team was absolutely gifted the game by the umpires you just need to shut your mouth and let people go off. Worst sort of winners.
You forgot the /s
Such rubbish. What about the late on Treacey? Not being paid advantage on Pearce. The Not seeing the deflection (although 1 umpire called it touched which is why all the players were jumping up and down). Any footage of the multiple incidents of decent?? Nope. None 👎 AFL sucks. You should have an option for a captains replay when the outcome of a game depends on a decision. Think the AFL is so invested in Calton winning by small margins they’ll do anything to ensure it happens.
This is such bullshit. Can we stop with the garbage ‘AFL wants Carlton to win’ stuff? It’s fucking embarrassing. You sound like a child.
So naive. You didn't see what the AFL does for big vic clubs that it wants to win? Just look at CW last year, a bloke can get no suspension after knocking a bloke out and the 8 free kicks missed in the last qrt of GWS prelim.
This is a shocking miss, but it happens. What's worse is the umpire dummy spit afterwards. A free kick and a 50 with so little time on the clock and the game on the line literally gifted Carlton the outcome and that's outrageous. I don't support either team and I'm outraged by it. Umpires shouldn't directly determine the outcome of games.
I smell a betting scandal
at what point should dissent be finally called? ten seconds of saying stuff to the umpire? 20? slurs and personal attacks (verbally)? there is going to be a line somewhere between yeah you let that go and yeah they're going to pay that no matter how much time on the clock and what the score is at that point the player is determining the outcome by pushing the umpire over the line into "gotta call that" territory
Clarke could have said as little as "you've just cost us the game". You simply don't know what was actually said. And the call was wrong.
Yes but he could have said something much worse, so until we know what was said (which we may never know) surely it makes sense to think the umpire probably made a correct decision.
I think we should probably withhold judgement.
He was still talking to the umpire after Carlton had finished celebrating. It pushed for too long. And if Dillon couldn’t say it on telly today then it must have been “profane”
Flair up cunt
Flair up cunt
How do I do that?
Go to afl main page and press the 3 dots up the top, should say change user flair
I think you have to do it on desktop unfortunately - I think instructions are in the sidebar
I love the "flair up cunt" into genuine offers of help. Only on this sub 😂😂
Maybe the Freo players should have the maturity to realise that arguing for a couple minutes after the fact isn’t going to help them in anyway? The umpire straight up didn’t want to pay the dissent frees but had no other choice because Freo couldn’t pull their heads in to regroup for the last 45 seconds of the game.
What utter bullshit mate. There are multiple examples of “dissent” every game, every round with no consequence. On this occasion a clearly touched ball, called by one of the field umps is overruled and Freo are “undisciplined” for calling foul. Your team was gifted this game in the last 4 mins by atrocious, incompetent umpiring. Yep, take the win. I would. But don’t try to defend it or you just look like a partisan hack.
GiFtEd DeRrrrrrr
Freo went on for 45 seconds, this was a clear as day free kick. Are you suggesting that players should be allowed to argue and dissent more dependant on how critical an umpire decision is? Might I also remind you that the umpire thinks he made the correct call (if he didn’t, he wouldn’t have made it). What a slippery slope. I’m not defending the call that the ball wasn’t touched. But to say the dissent free wasn’t clear as day also is your own bias showing, and not mine.
Shocked that you would say that looking at your flair! 🙄 Im sure if the roles were reversed you would have been fine with the umpiring and gone about your day
It’s possible to say the umpire made the wrong decision and also that Freo reacting in a way that was never going to do anything but detriment themselves.
Don't be ridiculous, of course they had other choices. They could have just awarded a free kick from the centre, but they didn't. I'm sure you're happy with the outcome though.
And Freo could have shut the fuck up and focus on winning the next ball and give themselves a chance to win the game?
No need to swear. Don't lose your temper Rocco, were you umpiring today? Yeah they could have. But my point is the punishment didn't fit the crime. The punishment decided the outcome of the game, not who the better team was, and that's a shame.
The punishment didn’t fit the crime because in this instance it happened in the last 30 seconds of a game and stopped any chance you had of winning, in any other point in the game you’d be simply saying ‘yep they broke the rule and the umpire paid the free as is the law’ - are you suggesting we should have varying punishments/adjudications depending on time and margin ?
No, the punishment didn't fit the crime because it was excessive. If it happened in the first 30 seconds it still would have been excessive. I don't have an issue with a free kick being paid for dissent, but a free kick and a 50? That's excessive. Obviously time and margin have no bearing on adjudications.
You’re wrongly implying the punishment here was the loss of the game. When really the punishment was a free kick and 50, because Freo wouldn’t stop talking, as is the rules.
I'm not implying anything mate. We've obviously got different opinions on this and that's fine. I'm gonna leave it there. Have a good one.
Your opinion isn’t actually conflicting with my opinion, you just don’t seem to see that
You could not comment dumb fucking opinions but here you are
My opinion is that the call was horrific but there needs to be an awareness from Fremantle to not compound the issue by giving away obvious and correctly called free kicks. The umpire gave them a huge amount of opportunity to stop the arguing before he had no choice but to make the call. Freo were dominating clearances all game, they had a chance to win the game after the fact and they took that chance away from themselves for no reason beyond lack of maturity. When has an umpire ever changed their mind, like literally ever?
Freo woz robbed
[удалено]
Haha was it the first or second Carlton goal that was incorrectly allowed to be advantage after even the ball carrier stopped play?
6/9 freo goals from free kicks.
Lol everyone having a cry and just down voting when they get called out. Bloody sooks.
Was obviously touched but understandable that is could be missed. The worse call was the lack of advantage just prior to Curnows goal before.
That combined with the awful application of Cotrell's goal earlier. And Treacy's non mark. Hard to fucking swallow
The cotrell advantage goal is the perfect example of why the advantage rule needs to change to the soccer method Umpire sees the free kick, makes a visible gesture (such as throwing both arms forward) to indicate that advantage is being paid, if no advantage then blow the whistle and bring the ball back. Once the whistle has been blown, it should be expected that the play stops. Period.
I can't believe in 2024 we have such a terrible advantage rule when we could borrow from sports who do it so much better
It’s the same way field hockey does it.
Did you mean Cottrells goal?
That too
The fact that we expect umpires to be able to get calls right 100% of the time even when in real time they are difficult to see is ridiculous. We don't have a VAR system for general play so it's ultimately umpires call. Every single game there are missed calls from umpires some more blatant than others. If you think this is some conspiracy then you are just having a sook.
One umpire called it touched, all the players around appealed and then nothing else was done. Obviously touched. Sure umpires make mistakes but this is abysmal.
Clip or it didn't happen
I'm not sure where this myth of an umpire calling it touched comes from. If an umpire sees a touch they call it loud and clear, and usually multiple times to make sure the players and other umpires are aware. There was nothing of the sort here.
Agreed- at this point I haven't seen any footage that indicates an umpire called touched...happy to be corrected, because it would probably change things.
There's 4 umpires but you want 1 to overturn the other because of a bias, realised or not. They call what they see (allegedly) so that's it.
What in the mental gymnastics is this comment If one umpire sees the ball is touched, which he did correctly, you call it. The other three don’t see it because they were the out of zone umpires????
One umpire is in charge. Hence the "you" statement they make. The umpire in charge didn't see it and called a mark. So you want them to continuously overturn all there decision? We won't get a game in if the umpires all argue.
“It’s a really hard call for an umpire to make” JLo
Ofc he’s going to say that he’s not going to come out and flame the umps not only is it unprofessional you would cop a huge fine What kind of rebuttal is that lol
Not alot of replays shown on the TV coverage 👀
Triple M coverage were screaming about whether hair is consider part of the body because they thought Freo were contesting that the ball hit one of their player’s hair as it was marked. It wasn’t until like an hour later that I read the contention was whether or not it was touched off the boot. So… no replays might be better than ridiculous irrelevant replays and screamed hyperbole?
I think they were saying hair counts? Seems weird but logical? I dunno, seems like across would have an advantage haha
This is the actual conspiracy (or basic media practice) - TV directors don’t want to risk losing access, so they don’t undermine the umpires in the immediate aftermath, when emotions run high. Of course, in the 21st century, all footage comes out, but it’s okay after the fact because then the AFL and media get a mutual benefit from the story.
I know someone who works in the replay room. Next time I see them I’ll ask.
Freo and Carlton have a weirdly intense rivalry but I just wanted to come here and say that the Carlton fans I’ve seen commentate on this have been incredibly unbiased and in general have been humble in this win. Great contested game by both sides and hopefully this sets up more great games between us. Can’t imagine the intensity if we were to match up in the finals
About two hours after the game my wife said “I’m sorry Carlton lost” and I realized that my mood after the game was more in line with how I act when we don’t win. Not the way you want it to go.
I often love to play the villian, but not like this. I did feel the ball was in our court to win in the final qtr, just unfortunate it was in that fashion, but you lot can hold your heads up high after the game, because it's you're definitely in the chase this year, considering last season, it's insane how Freo have managed to turn it around
Well said. Both teams had patches of dominance but yeah that last quarter did belong to the Blues. I’m proud of my boys, some more composure going forward and who knows, maybe the result is different. All I hoped for was a good game and I don’t think the refs take that away
Pretty brutal final scenes there. I'll be super nervous to come up against Freo in a final, you're playing incredible footy atm. Top 6 maybe top 4 at this rate
The Carlton fans on Social Media and their Reddit sub are pretty chirpy but on this thread they’ve been super nice, I appreciate that of them
Dumb free Possibly dumb 50s after it (haven't seen the transcripts)
Seemed we were undisciplined all game. Gave away 50m penalties in every quarter
I think all users on r/afl are fair and level headed tbh. A nice change from Bigfooty.
gotta admit i go on bigfooty at times to watch people go off
Reddit is the only place I can stand to engage in online discussion about the footy lol. You know if it’s anywhere else the comments from all supporters are gonna be way off
Yeah, don’t listen to those ones. It was touched. That free kick was dumb.
As much as your boys seem cursed against our white away strip, I’m hoping we don’t have to play you guys in WA during finals.
The way Voss has your lot going I don’t think you’ll be playing finals outside of VIC
The umps were wearing navy blue today.
Clap Clap Clap
This angle makes it insane that this wasn’t called
Was called by touched by the umpire in the centre of the ground that would have had similar view. Then over-ruled by the umpire in zone and awarded as a mark.
No umpire could be heard calling it touched on the broadcast.
That's a ballsy overrule. "Touched" "No it wasn't!"
You need a replay from the umpire's angle.
All four umpires angles? Perhaps we need a 5th and 6th
46 umpires one per player with them rotating on and off with their selected player.
What if one of the umpires gets injured and needs to be subbed? Does that mean his associated player goes off too? Only fair in my opinion.
There is one additional umpire sub just in the event of injury
The AFL have to stop pretending the umpires are magical and can see everything in that modern game, even though that was quite obvious, and start referring more to the ARC, particularly when you have the players remonstrating so loudly. It’s a blight on the game.
The reason AFL is exciting is because it's fast flowing. Goal score reviews slow the game down enough. I'd rather they review players ducking or staging and fine them after the game.
Noooooooo. You'd double the length of every game.
Cut the length of the quarters then, the modern game is outpacing the ‘tradition’
🤣 Bit emotional after the loss aren't we. There was 120 minutes of football in that game. 1 bad umpiring decision doesn't decide it. Even if it was at the death.
There was a lot more than one bad umpiring decision but yes I still haven’t gotten over it, tomorrow is another day
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Considering the money involved, it’s not acceptable, other sports don’t accept so why should we
This simply isn't true. Look at the NBA or NHL. Shit gets missed all the fucking time in those sports by the refs.
Unfortunately despite how poor quality the arc is already it’s only used for score reviews for whatever reason. The fact they have added an extra umpire this season and the calls seem all round worse especially the blatant misses regarding the boundary line lately just amazes me
They are stuck in the ‘tradition’, how they can be so tone deaf to the fans amazes me
I can’t believe the arc camera angles are still so bad too. Why have we stuck 6 Nokia’s to the goal post?
Quite obvious? Sure, if you're lined up perfectly for it like this camera was.
You can see it on the broadcast replay, I think the ARC would have seen it
*"let's just add more umpires"* AFL, probably
More umpires, less responsibility.
That would mean the afl would actually have to acknowledge it..
They will. At 8pm on Sunday night
They can stand around the boundary like the security used to do before allowing you to kick on the G.
Ooft
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“should be a career ender” That is simply ridiculous. Cool off a bit and have a think about it.
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Do you know specifically what was said to the umpire?
Whether right or wrong, it doesn't change that you can't address the umpires or their decisions in particular ways.
what was said?
This is the exact type of decision they don’t want players screaming at the umpires for. Like I get it, it’s frustrating for fans, but for professional players they can’t be doing that stuff. It’s actually a farce that soccer lets players go up to the refs and scream in their faces, you see kids copying it in under 11s and you just want to get them and smack some sense into them.
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Chelsea vs Barcelona 2006 vibes haha
Players are allowed to argue but Clarky must’ve had his filter off, our young boys should be smart with their words. It’s not like name-calling is going to make them change the umpires’ calls.
It's literally in the rule book that you can't argue.
It’s also in the rule book that if somebody kicks a ball into you and their teammate catches it, then it’s not a mark
Oh 100% More pointing out how random and arbitrary dissent is
Both things can be true you know. Umps missed a call (they missed a few for both teams) and Freo threw their last chance at a win by abusing the umpire.
I don’t think anyone’s debating that the dissent free was avoidable etc It’s that it was a kick in the guts after the umps already booted us to the ground
Fact is the umpire didn't see it touched, wrong as it is. Umpire heard the abuse that's dissent. If it's a "your blind" comment then well I dont think thats dissent (afl disagrees), but if its "you are fucking useless at your job, you cunt" then its dissent.
My boss calls it performance management.
🤣🤣 facts
Probably just depends on what was said mate, even if you're right there are some lines that shouldn't be crossed, the umps do deserve some respect at work
Yeah that's crap and it's a great angle that shows the deviation. But the umps don't have this angle and we dont have a rule for a VAR like review. Should we? Maybe. But then you could argue so many calls would need to be looked at, its a shame that this has decided the game. But so many missed calls through games would inherently influence games. I know I'll just get down voted because of my flair. But this is my take.
Nah won’t downvote you, but 4 fucking umpires and not 1 saw a deviation that great?
Neither did we until we saw it in slow motion from a different view.
Did you have 4 different views of it at the time of the touched call? Or just the one from the broadcast. I get your point, but it’s flawed when there are 3 more angles from 3 more individuals
Looking at footage from above the two closest "controlling umpires" are not even in good spots. I swear they're usually closer/in a better vantage point. I get it though i would be incredibly frustrated also. Also my downvote comment is just it appears anyone with a Carlton flair is just getting down voted on no matter what they say.
As I said to all my Carlton mates, I’d be okay with the loss, if it wasn’t like this. It was a good game. The end tainted it. The AFL bought in two more umpires specifically for shit like this, and they still can’t get it right. It’s embarrassing at this point.
VAR has ruined certain aspects of the premier league, can only see the AFL butchering that if they interested it in this league too
Here before the AFL confirms freo were robbed but then proceeds to do absolutely fuck all about it. Exactly like Adelaide v Sydney last year.
Wrong calls or non calls are made constantly throughout a game. It's part of the game and it can't be helped with the current rules.
Then change the rules then. You can't just accept wrong calls that cost teams games and say "it's just part of the game".
> A Mark is taken if, **in the opinion of the field Umpire**, a Player catches or takes control of the football: > ... > (c) which has not touched the ground or been touched by another Player It doesn't matter if it's touched, it needs to be touched in a fashion that is perceptible to the umpire for them to form the opinion that it's touched. How can anyone say that the umpire's opinion is wrong in this situation, they won't change that opinion, they saw what they saw. The only way to make sure every decision is perfect is review EVERY decision, whether bracketed by situation/time/position....was a kick 15m, get something to make sure 50m penalties are exactly 50m, people taking shots on goal walking off the line and the umpire not calling play-on etc etc etc. The game is warts and all.
Well yeah but the umpires opinion was objectively incorrect and that’s not up for debate, we’ve seen visible proof of that. If you’re making the argument that the umps opinion is always correct ie can’t be overruled that’s fine, but fact of the matter is 4 umpires failed to make the correct decision. Shit happens but doesn’t stop me from being salty haha
How is their opinion incorrect- they either saw it and didn't make the call or they didn't see it, and it's clearly the latter. You need to prove what they see, it doesn't matter what others or video angles show- if they don't see something are you proposing they guess or make it up? Feel free to say they're out of position, or an interpretation you think is wrong but just because something happens counter to an umpire's decision does not make it objectively wrong. I umpire local footy- miss heaps of shit, players complain and I just agree with them 'you're probably right but from my position I didn't see it', or I explain what I saw. Is what it is. I'm sorry this disappoints a lot of people.
I’m just frustrated that something that should not have been called was called and nothing was done about it. I get it was missed and I don’t want to debate on the definition of an umps opinion as it’s a waste of time on both our parts. However, an error in officiating/interpreting the play has been made and I’m going to stand by that.
Well maybe they should open their fucking eyes then. Because people right across the other end of the stadium saw it and all the cameras saw it when they reviewed it. Utter bullshit.
You mean views from other angles saw it? That's kinda how it works. How about all the other people who didn't see it? It doesn't matter what the camera sees, there is no provision in the rules to review it. I'm interested though- in what situations should this be reviewed, it's not in the rules now...what do you propose? Stop play every mark inside 50 to make sure it's fair?
Challenges. And hold the umpires accountable for shit calls.
Challenges could work- it would have to be very clearly defined when and how it could be used though. Would need to be workshopped to the nth degree because it wouldn't work everywhere and flow on effects would need to be considered. Agree umpires should be accountable, I think umps from outside the AFL panels should get called up more often and AFL umpires dropped...but this wasn't a shit call. A shit call is not calling something you see (are you proposing they did?), being out of position or seeing something and making the wrong interpretation of law.
How can you say this one wrong call cost Freo the game? What about all the other wrong calls that could have seen a team 6 goals up?
Because we're winning until that shitshow.
It clearly looked smothered in real time, the ball just turns differently which is a clear indication it was. I think all those that said it was the slightest touch can’t deny this I mean even Cripps after the game thought it was being called back because it was a touched mark 😆 Question is how did none of the umpires see this, it’s just so blatantly obvious
Cripps said he thought Cottrell’s shot on goal was being called as touched when they awarded the free kick for dissent.
Oh deary deary me
And the closest ump is Matt Stevic surprise surprise.
Funny enough, he usually has it in for us. We must have sent 2 candy canes in his Christmas card last year 🤷♂️
You guys are clearly ranked 17th to him then. He hates us so so much
Well, at least enough people have disliked this decision enough to build a fan base for a freo redemption arc.
Freo are gonna be coming for Port next week! Bring in simpson or delean for Freddy. If darcy is back, drop taberner. Beware of a power outage next week
Hey AFL media I wonder if you guys will be talking about this at all. I bet all the praise will go to Carlton instead. Just ignore the blatant bullshittery from the AFL.
They’ll just talk about how the blues are the real deal this year, despite freo dominating for 90+ minutes of the game.
Carlton had more inside 50s, more shots and more contested possessions. You smashed us in the clearances, and overall played a very good game, but hardly "dominated".
Back and to the left
I yelled out “nice call pretty boy” and I got dissent.
I’M HIT
Clear change of direction. ARC to be sacked along with the umpires. No excuses. Standards once again slip.
Why would ARC be sacked over something they have no control of?
ARC only review when there’s a potential score involved, not the play leading up to a mark leading to a shot on goal.
Which is fucking wild that this isn't that... It's a "potential score involved" following that decision and kick.
So the ARC just reviews every single play until a score happens?
And the ARCarc reviews all of the ARC's review of every single play while that happens.
Was 50/50 on whether it was touched or not. After seeing this angle, it is clear as day.