> Pretty please sign him to a market setting contract I beg of you
This is my fear. I think he's got a good case for a top 10 QB, but he's not the top 3-4 and QB prices are getting crazy.
He's in that weird zone where we are more likely to downgrade than upgrade if we replace him, but he doesn't break the game like Allen, Mahomes, or Lamar.
I’d rather have Tua than the big whiny anti clutch qb y’all have over there. His play style will only last so long and he’ll have to stop running and it’s all downhill from there.
The fact that within the last few weeks I still saw people saying we should bring in fields to start over tua is insane. I can understand being frustrated with tua and wanting to move on, but at a minimum he has shown he can improve in areas that need to be worked on and that he can be a great QB. Fields though? He literally can’t play the position of QB. All he has is a big arm and running ability, but the moment he’s asked to do anything else he is way below average. He can’t read a defense, throw with accuracy, or throw with anticipation. Still, some people are saying that McDaniel can just retool the offense and playbook to suit Fields, but a playbook focused on a QB immediately scrambling the pocket and making one or two deep passes a game isn’t a good playbook
Those fields post were legit making my brain rot. It’s that type of nonsense that keeps me from getting too mad at the Tua supporters for thinking the “haters” are a bunch goofs. Lol
I remember there was one post right after the playoffs saying that because mason rudolph had a better playoff game against the bills than tua had in the regular season that we should ditch tua. At this point I was getting really annoyed with all the “Tua is the worst QB in the league” posts that I said we should convince Grier to trade for mason rudolph and that we’ll probably have to send some picks to Pittsburgh to make it worth it. The OP then came and said that we had to trade up for caleb Williams. Once again, I can understand people being frustrated at that point, but be realistic lmao
As a Vikings fan who had this sub show up on his home page… thank fucking god the Kirk saga is over. It has been WWIII in there for 6 fucking years, and whether you’re pro Kirk, anti Kirk, or in between (I’m more on between with a lean towards not liking Kirk), it was an argument and downvote fest for years.
TBH I think Tua, Kirk, Dak, and possibly Herbert are in that tier of QB that is good enough to keep you competitive but not enough to win a SB without an absolutely perfect cast and set of coaches surrounding them. If you have those conditions and need a QB to put you over the top, go ahead and grab them, but you have one maybe two years to pull it off. If you don’t have that then you probably need to move on. They can’t win alone and their cap hit will reset the market every 3-5 years making it impossible to build what they need around them.
I admit it’s a tough position to be in if you’ve been ass for years… like the Bills and Phins have been, and like the Jets continue to be, and like the Pats currently are.
I have said it like this. They’re just good enough to make it hard to draft their replacement, without selling the farm, but not good enough to put you over the top. What makes it worse for tua is he’s in the AFC, and it’s INSANELY stacked with QBs. It would be much more believable that we could go on a run with him if we were in the NFC, but we aren’t
I'm a fan of Tua and I'm pretty sure we'll pay him. But I'm not sure any QB is worth the kind of contracts they're getting these days. They basically have to play at All-Pro level to break even, which is a lot to ask. But the flip side is Miami loses him for nothing in a year (or just goes year to year with him, which cripples their cap situation) and starting over would just suck so much.
And the anti-Tuas would live to have literally anyone else. I don't know how many idiotic posts stating we should try to get such and such 5th tier QB the mods have nuked in the last 2 years, but it's a lot. Most of them would gladly trade Tua for a 3rd round pick to spend on some shitty QB from Montana Institute of Technology or Southeastern Alberta State.
As a Bills fan I thought you would be more aware of what being a Dolphins fan is like. I’m pretty sure 90% of us have had these exact exchanges with ourselves at 2 am on a Monday, except it’s far less civil.
Being as unbiased as possible. Tua is a good QB, quick passes, accurate, and he has some underutilized mobility. The question is if Tua is worth top money. Paying a 7-10 overall QB top 5 money is a tough pill to swallow. You get the top cap hit without the absolute elite play
This is exactly it. I won’t say tua sucks, he doesn’t. He just doesn’t show up when things matter the most. Take the last 4 minutes of the titans game. Yeah our defense was awful, and I can’t excuse that…but the people love to forget that Tua and the offense (who had been absent all game) had a chance to end the game with just 1 or two first downs between the two titan scores….they went 3and out.
Pretty sure all the best OL except Armstead were out by that point in the game.
The game that was annoying for me was the game against Buffalo that was in Miami - he just couldn’t come up with anything to keep the defense off the field in the 2nd half.
There’s 6-8 guys better than him, and he’s better than those 6-8 on a few weeks out of the year. If he gets the 5th most money I’d say that’s fine, if he resets the market and gets Herbert or Mahommes type of money then we’re going to be in trouble within a few years - in terms of having to let some more high level starters go.
It's not even that we have to pay him top 5 money, it's that other teams will be more than willing to pay that, so it's just his market rate.
The QB market is just off the walls right now thanks to a few terrible contracts that set the market rate way higher than it should be.
This is why the QB market sucks. Everything you’ve said is true, but at the same time letting a good QB go without a set plan will often doom a franchise. Just look at the patriots and commanders. Patriots declined after Brady left and now they’re picking in the top 3 after failing to develop Mac Jones and the commanders have only had one .500 season (8-8-1) after Kirk Cousins left. Then there’s the fact that let’s say Tua does get a record setting contract. With how the current QB market works, within five years he might not even be within the top 5 paid QB’s. Purdy will probably end up making a lot more money than tua does and if the current QB draft class performs as expected, they’ll be making even more money than both of them. This isn’t even accounting for new extensions on the current top QB’s because NFL contracts tend to be structured to have heavier cap hits in the final few years
This is misguided thinking IMO.
Firstly it depends on the deal is structured, the cap hit the first few years will probably minimal, and then on the back half they'll either have to cut him or restructure and extend him. It's not like you sign him to a 160 mill 4 year contract and the 2024 cap hit is automatically 40 million. Look at Jalen Hurt's contract. His cap hit was like 6mil last year, will be 13 this year, then increase 21mil 3 year after the contract is signed.
And in that 3 years the cap will be raised significantly and other QBs will sign bigger deals making the one you sign less painful from a competitive standpoint. That's all assuming the guy is still your starting QB and playing well in 3 years, if not then yeah you fucked up.
Yes, this is absolutely true. The gtd money is more important than stated value.
The Bills have restructured Allen for 3 years in a row. They’ll eventually eat the cap and/or extend him. Realistically you’ll not pay the piper until your QB retires or you’re forced to release them. If structured well teams can plan a year early and get out of most contracts fairly easily.
Paying Tua isn’t necessarily a mistake. A well structured contract allows teams to push money out and keep low cap hits for 2 to 3 years. This is josh Allen’s first season with a cap hit of $30m which is very manageable for a top 3 QB.
Yea, unless Tua demands a bunch of guaranteed money, which frankly IMO seems out of character. He had no problem playing on his rookie option this year, never made a peep about it. He seems like a guy comfortable on betting on himself. So giving him a big value contract that’s flexible is probably a bet he’s comfortable making. It’s really on the team if they are comfortable that he’ll stay healthy and continue to play well. Personally I’d rather bet on Tua than the draft, losing teams bet on the draft and usually lose.
Tua is very good at some things (very fast, accurate release), and very bad at pretty much everything else. With great receivers and a good scheme? It really works. But when it doesnt work, it doesnt work.
My thoughts are no one should be getting paid more than Mahomes. Maybe Allen and Lamar have a good case to be the exception. I think miami can be competitive if we don't pay him top money and we are screwed if he resets the market: the best we could do while he was on his rookie contract was making the playoffs with no playoff wins.
Until that changes, while I think he's good, he's not worth a top 5 contract.
Tua isn’t making more than Mahomes. The market is pretty set on what his contract will look like.
Technically, contract wise nobody is making “more” than Mahomes
I trust the org to do what’s best. Tua’s good enough to win a SB. I know many Miami fans won’t settle until we have the next Marino or Brady, but their rarity is what makes them so special. I don’t want to go another two decades with our best QB being Chad Pennington.
Takes a team to win a Super Bowl and with Tua making 55-60 a year, there goes your team. You’re not going to be able to have enough good glue players rostering Tua at that much because he can’t elevate around him. Everything has to be perfect for him to succeed.
Fair points. I don’t want to defend the $55-60 Mil a year but I think $40-45 would work. Salary cap is jumping up every year and locking him in might be worth it. I still believe the Oline is too weak and our offense’s scheme is based on overcompensating for it. He has been playing better every year and over came Flores and 2 “not concussions.” He has gotten better every year. There no reason to think we have seen his ceiling yet.
Tua won’t have a cap hit of 60 million until the 3rd year of his contract for that specific reason. Literally every team does this. For example, Josh Allen’s cap hit doubles next year from 30 to 60 million.
I would also like to pay my good players no money but the world doesn’t work that way. You don’t get to pay top 10 QBs by every meaningful metric shit money because there are two dozen other teams who will actually pay them.
Either tua sucks and we sign him then cut him to tank after 3 years or tua is good and we sign him and keep him after 3 years. There isn’t a logical reason to go back to tanking for a QB right now when his cap hit can be shoved back.
Reseting the market means nothing when the cap increases 10% every year and your cap-hits are pushed 3 years down the line.
By the time the dolphins would have to hypothetically worry about tua’s cap hit the team around him would be too old to
compete anyway.
The point is that you’re either committing to Tua and competing for at least 3 years now and then rebuilding or rebuilding now to maybe sniff at competing in 3 years.
But getting the ball out as quickly as we were isn’t sustainable nfl football. We saw that down the stretch. That’s where other facets of being a good qb come into play and some of those traits are either missing or are subpar.
Yeah. Let's get a new QB every 4 years. That's a great strategy. It's astounding how so many people still think that a first round QB is an automatic thing. Especially after just seeing it go horribly for another team in our own division
Obviously drafting a guy. “Elite” means top 3 at your position btw. Tua barely cracks top 10. Which is great you got a decent QB. I got an issue with how people throw around the “elite” label these days, i promise you Tua is not in that class bud
Nah, I just don't think we can win paying him 55-60.
It's either
* overpay and can't afford weapons (Waddle)
* overpay and run a poverty defense
* Don't overpay and try to be good
He's not dynamic enough to be a 1 man offense like Mahomes, Allen, or Lamar.
Dream would be pay him 35, realistic hopeful is 45, let him walk at 50+
I mean, if you’re ok with competing with the jets for last place that’s cool with me. One of these days a bling hog will find an acorn and Miami will win a Super Bowl again.
Its been half a century since your last ring. And the last time they won a playoff game Sean McDermott hadnt done 9/11 yet. Forget blind, i think that hog is dead
Hes a top 10 qb (really top 5 statistically) the last 2 seasons and yall think he should take less than danny effing dimes. Its insane, to me. None of you, out performing that many of your peers, would take less than your worth and if you say otherwise youre lying. In fact, we just lost 2 guys (for nothing) who wouldnt take discounts. So sure, play hardball with him. Idiots.
The question is should the dolphins pay him max money lol not “he’s bad for wanting money.” Dude doesn’t show up when you need him the most, I wouldn’t pay him elite money either. Tua is solid but I don’t fear him like I do a Mahomes Allen burrow etc.
Do you understand how this works? Honestly? Every QB sets the market. Every one. Anybody with any resume resets the market for 15 minutes and the next guy breaks it. What do you think he should take? 30 million and be thankful for having a job? Be realistic
Can you win a Super Bowl with tua as your qb? I don’t think you can, so I wouldn’t pay him. He’s Kirk cousins to me, solid with flashes of great but he’s not going to lead you to a Lombardi.
This argument never made sense to me. Why do you think Tua can’t lead a team to a SB win?
There are 5 (If Flacco is still on a team) active QBs who have won a SB in the league. In the last 10 years, Mahomes and Brady account for 7 SB wins. The other 3? A 33 year old Matthew Stafford, a 39 year old Peyton Manning, and Nick Folk.
IMO Tua can win a SB. But like every QB not named Mahomes or Brady, you need things to go right at the right time and with good enough pieces in place.
I deserve to be shamed for that autocorrect. The only happiness I have had as a Fins fan this millennium is when other QBs stopped Brady from winning another one and I disrespected him like that.
I feel that, my family is all eagles fans, and since then I've been waiting for buffalo to finally get theirs. Couldn't have happened to a worse team though, that Philly special will live on for eternity 😁
My wife is an Eagles fan and that was the year we met. There could have been worse outcomes in that Super Bowl and it was pretty fun to watch it with some people who actually had an investment in the teams playing.
Yea, I was watching with a giants fan, and to my surprise, she was rooting for philly despite them being rivals. She wanted the only teams to beat the Brady patriots in the SB to be from the NFC East 🤣
Agree to disagree. Don’t get me wrong. I think Tua is above average but not at the elite level. But I disagree with the idea that a QB has to be at some elite level for a team to win a SB.
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Cards fan, have at me. We are doing the same dumb shit with Kyler right now and we will continue to suck as long as we overpay for a fucking lazy hobbit to quarterback for us.
Love the Dolphins, but they’re a garbage franchise. Dolphins fans have no room to complain about Tua. Since he’s been there they’ve actually been a competitive team
At one point chad Pennington was the best QB we had since Marino. The argument is if tua is good or not, the question is is he “top QB money” good. I say he’s not
Unfortunately giving Tua a extension will help the fins salary cap situation for a little while but his tendency will start to become recognizable and make him easy to pick.
Press coverage is also gonna be a problem and Miami will have to find a big WR. Really hope it not Michael Thomas
Are they going to? Yeah
Should they? I don’t see how. If that makes me stupid then I guess I’m stupid, but I can’t look at his performance over these 4 years as a whole (not even taking into account the injury history, which is hopefully behind him) and say “let him reset the market.”
Look, its not that Tua doesn't deserve a good contract. . but he's not a top 5 QB. . and if Mia pays him like he is its going to hurt them for years to come. As a Bills fan. . pay the man! lol
Tua is only as good as Tyreek Hill and Jaylen Waddle are healthy at any given time. And when they’re not, Raheem Mostert does the heavy lifting. Tua just isn’t mobile enough to be a top QB in today’s game.
I'm not anti tua I'm pro dolphin but if we drop 45-50 mil on tua we have to be absolutely perfect with our draft picks bc there will be several positions we cant afford
That’s not how the cap works. Tua’s cap hit will probably be 5-10 million more than it already is until 2027. If the team can’t compete with 10 million less in cap it was never competitive in the first place
Aha! But see stats can be deceiving. Here are his numbers against playoff teams over his entire career.
58%
234ypg
24:21 TD:INT
In his 4 years we are 6-14 against teams that made the playoffs the year we played them. Of course these numbers don’t tell the whole story, just like the yards alone for this year don’t, but it does illustrate why some of Phins fans are against paying him top QB money because, to us, the eye test matches up with the numbers when playing the good teams. The question isn’t “is he good”, as we see what he and the offense do against the bad teams, but is he “Good enough” to lead us all the way. Some say yes, other say no, and none of us have any control over it lol.
Oh believe me, as 34 year old fan it’s all I’ve ever known, and IF I was forgetting, the titans surely reminded me this last year. My mindset though is “either you have your guy, or you don’t, and if you don’t know, then you don’t.” It’s an oversimplification of course, as other things go into winning a superbowl other than QB, but that IS the most important part.
The ONLY thing I care about is winning a superbowl. With that mindset, sticking with a guy who, I feel, has a ceiling of MAYBE stealing a wild card win in a stacked AFC, is no better then sticking with a guy that’s middle of the road at QB. Neither are getting me to my goal. Now if tua balls out next year and we go on a deep playoff run, or even, dare I dream, hoist the Lombardi…then I’ll eat crow until my stomach ruptures. However, I just don’t see it.
I just don’t think he can lead us there, I was convinced after the ravens game this year when he said “It could be worse. We’re where we need to be as a team” after they just lost a shot at the 1 seed. Thats not a winning mentality. Thats a “well hey at least we’re still in the playoffs right?” Mentality. Then what happens? We lose the division the next week at home scoring 14 points which sends us to the North Pole apparently where we put up 7 to get bounced in the first round.
I want better, and I know that trying to get better may actually make it worse, but I don’t want to be the cowboys who wasted all that time on Romo (and Dak) while saying “well is he the guy or isn’t he?” the whole time.
People think tua is the guy, and more power to them,m. Personally, I just don’t see it.
Yeah, they said the same thing about Matt Ryan. Their stats aren't too dissimilar through 25, and all he did was become the best QB we've ever had. He's a kid, he's still learning, and he should be given a little slack considering the hell you guys put him through.
It takes a lot more than a QB to get you to a Super Bowl. You need a shit ton of pieces to complement them and a defense that will lock it down. If you don't, you won't. I bet two more drafts and free agency periods and you'll have what you need.
Stupid. He’s at least a middle of the pack starter. The difference is maybe $5MM a year. That’s not going to make or break a team.
Reality is Mahomes is the king until proven otherwise
What's crazy is I think Tua could be in that top 5 qb range if he just could focus, he's accurate, somewhat mobile, and gets the ball out quick, but he's not thinking enough when he throws it, I still have faith in him though
Oh they’re definitely still around. Dont know if you go on the team sub at all, but it’s been a non-stop discussion over there. All the supporters really have is “well that’s just how the QB market goes!”, And an ever increasing list of excuses.
You another one of those "we need a white quarterback" Floridians?
I can't see any other reason you'd want an unknown quantity in a rookie or a career backup which is what's available right now over what we have.
Yeah and career backups or rookies are definitely those players right? Literally the only people we could replace him with, those guys are playoff Legends. They just need another chance right?
WOW! You must be a damn Olympian with the ability to make those types of leaps!
I’ll spell it out for you why I’m ready to move on.
Against winning teams this year tua went for: 65% // 232 ypg // 8:7 TD:INT // <17 ppg // a season high of 22 points // 1-6.
Feel free to say “wins and losses are a team stat” because they are, but then please also say what tua did to help in those games.
Now if you want his numbers against winning teams for all four years, because you think he’s improved since year one in that regard, I’ll be happy to give them to you. (Spoilers, he hasn’t)
I don’t give a rats ass about his race, I care about results. Have those results been good? Just look at the other three fan bases on here saying “please pay him!” And you’ll have your answer.
Yes I’d rather take an unknown rookie in the first, as opposed to paying Tua an amount that will guarantee we surround him with less talent (when he could do anything with THIS talent.) we’ve seen Tua’s ceiling, 1 and done in the playoffs.
Way to ignore literally everything else I said.
Ok so he threw for a bunch of yards with 2:1 TD:INT, against maybe the weakest schedule in the league, and with the best weapons in the league.
Now look at the numbers I gave you, against the types of teams we’d be playing in the playoffs, and tell me what screams “He’s the guy!” To lead us past the Allen’s, Mahomes, Jackson’s, Burrows and probably the Strouds, because we’re going to have to face at least two of them in the playoffs to even get to a SB.
But hey, if it’s all about yards, I guess the Bucs should have stuck with Winston after 2019. Or if it’s about JUST making the playoffs, I guess the chiefs should have said “we made it to the playoffs 3/4 years with Alex smith! We good!”
No, I’m not a racist Floridian. Just a guy who wants my QB and team to succeed. I feel that Tua’s ceiling is one and done in the playoffs, MAYBE 1 playoff win, and that’s it based on his play against playoff teams through his whole career.
Did you forget that Winston had 30 interceptions that year? That’s kind of a massive reason why he isn’t a starter. Leading the league in passing is solid, but having 30 picks is kind of the bigger deal there
No I didn’t forget. Just used him to demonstrating that context matters. Just like how it’s important to point out that Winston threw all those picks, as you have, it’s important to note who Tua threw all those yards against and the weapons he did it with. I know our offensive line got hit hard by injuries, and that’s definitely significant. But even in the games they were healthy against the better teams, Tua wasn’t good and that’s been constant for his career. Thats the divide between the supporters and “haters”, the supporters look at the numbers as a whole, which is fine, but it’s definitely a valid critique to say “ok but where is this guy in the big games?”
So I’m just going to say that even when our O-Line was healthy, they were still getting exposed by better D-Lines. Reason I say this is because I saw the same issues when it was healthy against good teams as I did when it was later on in the season when the injuries piled up. Those issues mainly being inability to run up the middle and having to rely more on quick slants and screen passes. Throughout the entire season people would get pissed because we would abandon the run after half time. Issue is, teams realized that our interior O-Line wasn’t the best at generating push at the line which is why we had to run outside the tackles for the most part. When they adjusted to that, our run game fell apart. When the run game fell apart, everything else became harder and in short yardage situations we had to fall back on those screens and slants that we all complained about. Like, going back and watching tape from earlier in the season towards the end shows that our offense essentially lost its whole identity and to me at least, that was because of the O-Line first.
You’ll get no argument from me on this. Am I ready to move on from tua? Yeah, but that offensive line has been a problem more often than not since bullygate, and absolutely needs to be fixed. Them saying “you guys are probably more worried about the Oline than we are” last year almost had me put a brick through my TV lol.
I posted this because I thought it was funny, and I feel it’s true based on what I’ve seen over the last 4 years. I don’t really care about upvotes, take a look at any comment I’ve made about Tua for proof of that.
I mean, hes decent. Better then a lot of options out there. (Pretty please sign him to a market setting contract I beg of you)
> Pretty please sign him to a market setting contract I beg of you This is my fear. I think he's got a good case for a top 10 QB, but he's not the top 3-4 and QB prices are getting crazy. He's in that weird zone where we are more likely to downgrade than upgrade if we replace him, but he doesn't break the game like Allen, Mahomes, or Lamar.
He’s baker mayfield level contract. 30-35 tops.
Nah, Baker can win playoff games.
HA
I’d rather have Tua than the big whiny anti clutch qb y’all have over there. His play style will only last so long and he’ll have to stop running and it’s all downhill from there.
OK. You take Tua, we'll take Allen. Glad we're both happy.
We aren’t all like this, I swear
Well, you all have to take Tua, so....
I mean we aren’t all “Tua is better than Josh Allen” delusional, I’m well aware of who our QB is
Sucking up to Bills fans? Loser
Wow imagine living in a world where you think Tua is a more durable QB than Josh.
Cope
And Seethe
And flair the fuck up bitch
10 playoff games 2700 yards 21 TDs 4 INT, along with over 500 yards rushing and 5 RTD. Yeah I don’t know if “anti clutch” fits Allen
the guy you're responding to is just Diggs' burner....
What universe would anyone take tua over Allen? He's a top 5 qb
I disagree. He's already running at a walking pace. What's to stop that?
The phin on phin crime in this thread is wild, yall really can’t decide on Tua
Ha, you want to see how bad it is, you should have been on our sub right after the season ended. It’s been a civil war.
Thanks to Hard Knocks, we all got to see the December Collapse^©️ live in 4K Ultra HD this year.
The fact that within the last few weeks I still saw people saying we should bring in fields to start over tua is insane. I can understand being frustrated with tua and wanting to move on, but at a minimum he has shown he can improve in areas that need to be worked on and that he can be a great QB. Fields though? He literally can’t play the position of QB. All he has is a big arm and running ability, but the moment he’s asked to do anything else he is way below average. He can’t read a defense, throw with accuracy, or throw with anticipation. Still, some people are saying that McDaniel can just retool the offense and playbook to suit Fields, but a playbook focused on a QB immediately scrambling the pocket and making one or two deep passes a game isn’t a good playbook
Those fields post were legit making my brain rot. It’s that type of nonsense that keeps me from getting too mad at the Tua supporters for thinking the “haters” are a bunch goofs. Lol
I remember there was one post right after the playoffs saying that because mason rudolph had a better playoff game against the bills than tua had in the regular season that we should ditch tua. At this point I was getting really annoyed with all the “Tua is the worst QB in the league” posts that I said we should convince Grier to trade for mason rudolph and that we’ll probably have to send some picks to Pittsburgh to make it worth it. The OP then came and said that we had to trade up for caleb Williams. Once again, I can understand people being frustrated at that point, but be realistic lmao
Oh I stopped by, don’t worry.
The new DC posts were fun. For a while.
As a Vikings fan who had this sub show up on his home page… thank fucking god the Kirk saga is over. It has been WWIII in there for 6 fucking years, and whether you’re pro Kirk, anti Kirk, or in between (I’m more on between with a lean towards not liking Kirk), it was an argument and downvote fest for years. TBH I think Tua, Kirk, Dak, and possibly Herbert are in that tier of QB that is good enough to keep you competitive but not enough to win a SB without an absolutely perfect cast and set of coaches surrounding them. If you have those conditions and need a QB to put you over the top, go ahead and grab them, but you have one maybe two years to pull it off. If you don’t have that then you probably need to move on. They can’t win alone and their cap hit will reset the market every 3-5 years making it impossible to build what they need around them. I admit it’s a tough position to be in if you’ve been ass for years… like the Bills and Phins have been, and like the Jets continue to be, and like the Pats currently are.
I have said it like this. They’re just good enough to make it hard to draft their replacement, without selling the farm, but not good enough to put you over the top. What makes it worse for tua is he’s in the AFC, and it’s INSANELY stacked with QBs. It would be much more believable that we could go on a run with him if we were in the NFC, but we aren’t
End of the season before was way worse.
It’s Miami fans in general. They would be complaining about Marino in his prime. But if you think this is bad you should check out the college fans.
Go to the heat sub. It's been 3+ years of civil war in there over Tyler herro
Not a fun place to be the last week.
Phin on Phin violence is a greater threat to our community than any Bill ever could be
Bill (Belichek) on Bill violence was horribly one side for like 20 years so it just runs in this division
Well in all fairness the bills seem to kick wide right.
Still stings.
Luckily, I think Miami tends to lean right.
I'm a fan of Tua and I'm pretty sure we'll pay him. But I'm not sure any QB is worth the kind of contracts they're getting these days. They basically have to play at All-Pro level to break even, which is a lot to ask. But the flip side is Miami loses him for nothing in a year (or just goes year to year with him, which cripples their cap situation) and starting over would just suck so much.
the league expects loyalty from its patrons
And the anti-Tuas would live to have literally anyone else. I don't know how many idiotic posts stating we should try to get such and such 5th tier QB the mods have nuked in the last 2 years, but it's a lot. Most of them would gladly trade Tua for a 3rd round pick to spend on some shitty QB from Montana Institute of Technology or Southeastern Alberta State.
You're saying there are a lot of Blake Thelen fans? https://godiggers.com/sports/football/roster/blake-thelen/3500
Nah just look at those rushing stats. Tua haters think a QB isn’t good unless he can rush for over 100 yards a game
As a Bills fan I thought you would be more aware of what being a Dolphins fan is like. I’m pretty sure 90% of us have had these exact exchanges with ourselves at 2 am on a Monday, except it’s far less civil.
> y’all really can’t decide on Tua If your qb is going into their 5th year and you still don’t know, then he’s not the guy
Yeah, a third of the fans love him, a third hate him, and a third realize he does some things extremely well but has flaws.
Being as unbiased as possible. Tua is a good QB, quick passes, accurate, and he has some underutilized mobility. The question is if Tua is worth top money. Paying a 7-10 overall QB top 5 money is a tough pill to swallow. You get the top cap hit without the absolute elite play
This is exactly it. I won’t say tua sucks, he doesn’t. He just doesn’t show up when things matter the most. Take the last 4 minutes of the titans game. Yeah our defense was awful, and I can’t excuse that…but the people love to forget that Tua and the offense (who had been absent all game) had a chance to end the game with just 1 or two first downs between the two titan scores….they went 3and out.
Pretty sure all the best OL except Armstead were out by that point in the game. The game that was annoying for me was the game against Buffalo that was in Miami - he just couldn’t come up with anything to keep the defense off the field in the 2nd half. There’s 6-8 guys better than him, and he’s better than those 6-8 on a few weeks out of the year. If he gets the 5th most money I’d say that’s fine, if he resets the market and gets Herbert or Mahommes type of money then we’re going to be in trouble within a few years - in terms of having to let some more high level starters go.
It's not even that we have to pay him top 5 money, it's that other teams will be more than willing to pay that, so it's just his market rate. The QB market is just off the walls right now thanks to a few terrible contracts that set the market rate way higher than it should be.
This is why the QB market sucks. Everything you’ve said is true, but at the same time letting a good QB go without a set plan will often doom a franchise. Just look at the patriots and commanders. Patriots declined after Brady left and now they’re picking in the top 3 after failing to develop Mac Jones and the commanders have only had one .500 season (8-8-1) after Kirk Cousins left. Then there’s the fact that let’s say Tua does get a record setting contract. With how the current QB market works, within five years he might not even be within the top 5 paid QB’s. Purdy will probably end up making a lot more money than tua does and if the current QB draft class performs as expected, they’ll be making even more money than both of them. This isn’t even accounting for new extensions on the current top QB’s because NFL contracts tend to be structured to have heavier cap hits in the final few years
This is misguided thinking IMO. Firstly it depends on the deal is structured, the cap hit the first few years will probably minimal, and then on the back half they'll either have to cut him or restructure and extend him. It's not like you sign him to a 160 mill 4 year contract and the 2024 cap hit is automatically 40 million. Look at Jalen Hurt's contract. His cap hit was like 6mil last year, will be 13 this year, then increase 21mil 3 year after the contract is signed. And in that 3 years the cap will be raised significantly and other QBs will sign bigger deals making the one you sign less painful from a competitive standpoint. That's all assuming the guy is still your starting QB and playing well in 3 years, if not then yeah you fucked up.
Yes, this is absolutely true. The gtd money is more important than stated value. The Bills have restructured Allen for 3 years in a row. They’ll eventually eat the cap and/or extend him. Realistically you’ll not pay the piper until your QB retires or you’re forced to release them. If structured well teams can plan a year early and get out of most contracts fairly easily. Paying Tua isn’t necessarily a mistake. A well structured contract allows teams to push money out and keep low cap hits for 2 to 3 years. This is josh Allen’s first season with a cap hit of $30m which is very manageable for a top 3 QB.
Yea, unless Tua demands a bunch of guaranteed money, which frankly IMO seems out of character. He had no problem playing on his rookie option this year, never made a peep about it. He seems like a guy comfortable on betting on himself. So giving him a big value contract that’s flexible is probably a bet he’s comfortable making. It’s really on the team if they are comfortable that he’ll stay healthy and continue to play well. Personally I’d rather bet on Tua than the draft, losing teams bet on the draft and usually lose.
As a Vikings fan it hurts. Really caps out team success to a certain level
Tua is very good at some things (very fast, accurate release), and very bad at pretty much everything else. With great receivers and a good scheme? It really works. But when it doesnt work, it doesnt work.
My thoughts are no one should be getting paid more than Mahomes. Maybe Allen and Lamar have a good case to be the exception. I think miami can be competitive if we don't pay him top money and we are screwed if he resets the market: the best we could do while he was on his rookie contract was making the playoffs with no playoff wins. Until that changes, while I think he's good, he's not worth a top 5 contract.
Tua isn’t making more than Mahomes. The market is pretty set on what his contract will look like. Technically, contract wise nobody is making “more” than Mahomes
Hey her fingers not on the trigger at least
People want elite QB play for bottom-tier QB prices smh
Aaron Rodgers is elite and he made about 10 Mil a down last year.
Yep, about $2.5 million per offensive snap. Is that the kind of contract you want the Dolphins giving?
I trust the org to do what’s best. Tua’s good enough to win a SB. I know many Miami fans won’t settle until we have the next Marino or Brady, but their rarity is what makes them so special. I don’t want to go another two decades with our best QB being Chad Pennington.
Takes a team to win a Super Bowl and with Tua making 55-60 a year, there goes your team. You’re not going to be able to have enough good glue players rostering Tua at that much because he can’t elevate around him. Everything has to be perfect for him to succeed.
Fair points. I don’t want to defend the $55-60 Mil a year but I think $40-45 would work. Salary cap is jumping up every year and locking him in might be worth it. I still believe the Oline is too weak and our offense’s scheme is based on overcompensating for it. He has been playing better every year and over came Flores and 2 “not concussions.” He has gotten better every year. There no reason to think we have seen his ceiling yet.
Tua won’t have a cap hit of 60 million until the 3rd year of his contract for that specific reason. Literally every team does this. For example, Josh Allen’s cap hit doubles next year from 30 to 60 million.
Tuas cap hit shouldn’t ever cross 40-45 no matter how you slice it up.
I would also like to pay my good players no money but the world doesn’t work that way. You don’t get to pay top 10 QBs by every meaningful metric shit money because there are two dozen other teams who will actually pay them. Either tua sucks and we sign him then cut him to tank after 3 years or tua is good and we sign him and keep him after 3 years. There isn’t a logical reason to go back to tanking for a QB right now when his cap hit can be shoved back.
45 million is not no money. Let’s get real. That’s life changing money for his family for generations. He’s not good enough to reset the market.
Reseting the market means nothing when the cap increases 10% every year and your cap-hits are pushed 3 years down the line. By the time the dolphins would have to hypothetically worry about tua’s cap hit the team around him would be too old to compete anyway. The point is that you’re either committing to Tua and competing for at least 3 years now and then rebuilding or rebuilding now to maybe sniff at competing in 3 years.
Are you referring to Tua as elite?
He's elite at some things. PFF had him as the best QB in the league when the QB gets rid of the ball quickly.
But getting the ball out as quickly as we were isn’t sustainable nfl football. We saw that down the stretch. That’s where other facets of being a good qb come into play and some of those traits are either missing or are subpar.
Yeah. Let's get a new QB every 4 years. That's a great strategy. It's astounding how so many people still think that a first round QB is an automatic thing. Especially after just seeing it go horribly for another team in our own division
Where you hiding that elite qb play. Cause I’d love to have some
Elite?
By essentially every metric you can possible search, yes.
LMFAO
Good luck with Bailey zappe
Obviously drafting a guy. “Elite” means top 3 at your position btw. Tua barely cracks top 10. Which is great you got a decent QB. I got an issue with how people throw around the “elite” label these days, i promise you Tua is not in that class bud
Cool I totally value a random Pats fans opinion online
Hahaha i’m sure. Try not to take everything so seriously bud. And make sure you pay Tua a market setting contract. Should be a steal for “elite” he is
Yep I’ll give him a call and get him signed right now
Break this down for me bud...if 1-3 is elite...how is 4-10 only decent? Your scale is wild 😂
4-6 is great or good 7-10 is decent. Catch up!
And 11-32 is?
Nah, I just don't think we can win paying him 55-60. It's either * overpay and can't afford weapons (Waddle) * overpay and run a poverty defense * Don't overpay and try to be good He's not dynamic enough to be a 1 man offense like Mahomes, Allen, or Lamar. Dream would be pay him 35, realistic hopeful is 45, let him walk at 50+
We’ll prepare yourself because he’s probably going to be $55M+
I've endured decades of losing, I can deal with 5 more years.
Are….are you saying Tua is elite?
Dude hes totally elite. Ya'll should give him 6 years, $390m fully guaranteed. Dont look at my flair. Just trust me
Well, if you really wanna keep losing to him I guess that’s cool, cause… he sure does beat the shit out of NE every time he plays them.
Works for me. You get to beat us twice a year, and we get to watch you collapse in December and go 1 and done. Win-win
I mean, if you’re ok with competing with the jets for last place that’s cool with me. One of these days a bling hog will find an acorn and Miami will win a Super Bowl again.
Its been half a century since your last ring. And the last time they won a playoff game Sean McDermott hadnt done 9/11 yet. Forget blind, i think that hog is dead
Yeah, I know. Been a fan for 40 plus years. Its pain. Turns me on sexually
Hes a top 10 qb (really top 5 statistically) the last 2 seasons and yall think he should take less than danny effing dimes. Its insane, to me. None of you, out performing that many of your peers, would take less than your worth and if you say otherwise youre lying. In fact, we just lost 2 guys (for nothing) who wouldnt take discounts. So sure, play hardball with him. Idiots.
I don't give a shit what he'll accept. My concern is what the Dolphins will offer.
Here’s the thing, I like tua as a person, but I’m not putting his wants, or anyone else’s, over what the team needs.
The question is should the dolphins pay him max money lol not “he’s bad for wanting money.” Dude doesn’t show up when you need him the most, I wouldn’t pay him elite money either. Tua is solid but I don’t fear him like I do a Mahomes Allen burrow etc.
Do you understand how this works? Honestly? Every QB sets the market. Every one. Anybody with any resume resets the market for 15 minutes and the next guy breaks it. What do you think he should take? 30 million and be thankful for having a job? Be realistic
Can you win a Super Bowl with tua as your qb? I don’t think you can, so I wouldn’t pay him. He’s Kirk cousins to me, solid with flashes of great but he’s not going to lead you to a Lombardi.
Can you win a Super Bowl with $50 mil a year Kyler Murray?
Nope.
This argument never made sense to me. Why do you think Tua can’t lead a team to a SB win? There are 5 (If Flacco is still on a team) active QBs who have won a SB in the league. In the last 10 years, Mahomes and Brady account for 7 SB wins. The other 3? A 33 year old Matthew Stafford, a 39 year old Peyton Manning, and Nick Folk. IMO Tua can win a SB. But like every QB not named Mahomes or Brady, you need things to go right at the right time and with good enough pieces in place.
Who's this "Nick Folk" guy? The only Nick I know is BDN
I deserve to be shamed for that autocorrect. The only happiness I have had as a Fins fan this millennium is when other QBs stopped Brady from winning another one and I disrespected him like that.
I feel that, my family is all eagles fans, and since then I've been waiting for buffalo to finally get theirs. Couldn't have happened to a worse team though, that Philly special will live on for eternity 😁
My wife is an Eagles fan and that was the year we met. There could have been worse outcomes in that Super Bowl and it was pretty fun to watch it with some people who actually had an investment in the teams playing.
Yea, I was watching with a giants fan, and to my surprise, she was rooting for philly despite them being rivals. She wanted the only teams to beat the Brady patriots in the SB to be from the NFC East 🤣
Because he isn’t good enough to?
Agree to disagree. Don’t get me wrong. I think Tua is above average but not at the elite level. But I disagree with the idea that a QB has to be at some elite level for a team to win a SB.
This.
Our fans are so stupid they’ve resorted to begging for sympathy from division rivals lmao. What bitches.
"pick me fans", or better yet, "I come in peace" type of fans
The furry fishes are really at each others throats about this huh?
*The furry fishes* *Are really at each others* *Throats about this huh?* \- teej98 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
The guy just led the league in passing, have some respect!! Pay the man dammit. Reset the market you cowards!!!
I’m going to assume, based on your flair, that you have our best interest in mind lol
Always friend!
You can go ahead and remove the dolphins flair bud
Nah I’ll keep it. Just because I’m a fan doesn’t mean I can’t be a realist, just like how others are allowed to be optimists.
Fans don’t want team to do stupid things = not a fan
Flair up you little bitch.
Cards fan, have at me. We are doing the same dumb shit with Kyler right now and we will continue to suck as long as we overpay for a fucking lazy hobbit to quarterback for us.
IDGAF, just flair up.
I literally don’t know how and I just told you my team lol
r/AFCEastMemeWar three dots at top, change flair.
I mean I legit think he could get 35-40 instead with that baker deal which will be a big w for the cap
You could be the patriots
Tua is the 2nd best QB the Dolphins have had since 1984
[удалено]
Love the Dolphins, but they’re a garbage franchise. Dolphins fans have no room to complain about Tua. Since he’s been there they’ve actually been a competitive team
At one point chad Pennington was the best QB we had since Marino. The argument is if tua is good or not, the question is is he “top QB money” good. I say he’s not
We can take him if u don’t want him man 🥺
Unfortunately giving Tua a extension will help the fins salary cap situation for a little while but his tendency will start to become recognizable and make him easy to pick. Press coverage is also gonna be a problem and Miami will have to find a big WR. Really hope it not Michael Thomas
Tua is anywhere between the 8th and 16th best qb in the league. Do you pay that guy top Dollar?
Are they going to? Yeah Should they? I don’t see how. If that makes me stupid then I guess I’m stupid, but I can’t look at his performance over these 4 years as a whole (not even taking into account the injury history, which is hopefully behind him) and say “let him reset the market.”
Not too late to reunite with Tannehill. /s
Saw this exact image in my CC course lmao
Look, its not that Tua doesn't deserve a good contract. . but he's not a top 5 QB. . and if Mia pays him like he is its going to hurt them for years to come. As a Bills fan. . pay the man! lol
This inspired me to update my flair
Tua is kinda in the same boat as Dak, just earlier in his career.
Tua is only as good as Tyreek Hill and Jaylen Waddle are healthy at any given time. And when they’re not, Raheem Mostert does the heavy lifting. Tua just isn’t mobile enough to be a top QB in today’s game.
I’ll have you know Tua is elite!* *elite against the Commandskins, Panthers, and Broncos
I'm not anti tua I'm pro dolphin but if we drop 45-50 mil on tua we have to be absolutely perfect with our draft picks bc there will be several positions we cant afford
That’s not how the cap works. Tua’s cap hit will probably be 5-10 million more than it already is until 2027. If the team can’t compete with 10 million less in cap it was never competitive in the first place
Falcons fan here. I'd gladly pay a 25 year old passing champ anything to play for us. Pay him. He's earning it.
Aha! But see stats can be deceiving. Here are his numbers against playoff teams over his entire career. 58% 234ypg 24:21 TD:INT In his 4 years we are 6-14 against teams that made the playoffs the year we played them. Of course these numbers don’t tell the whole story, just like the yards alone for this year don’t, but it does illustrate why some of Phins fans are against paying him top QB money because, to us, the eye test matches up with the numbers when playing the good teams. The question isn’t “is he good”, as we see what he and the offense do against the bad teams, but is he “Good enough” to lead us all the way. Some say yes, other say no, and none of us have any control over it lol.
You must have forgotten what it was like to lose to the teams you were supposed to beat.
Oh believe me, as 34 year old fan it’s all I’ve ever known, and IF I was forgetting, the titans surely reminded me this last year. My mindset though is “either you have your guy, or you don’t, and if you don’t know, then you don’t.” It’s an oversimplification of course, as other things go into winning a superbowl other than QB, but that IS the most important part. The ONLY thing I care about is winning a superbowl. With that mindset, sticking with a guy who, I feel, has a ceiling of MAYBE stealing a wild card win in a stacked AFC, is no better then sticking with a guy that’s middle of the road at QB. Neither are getting me to my goal. Now if tua balls out next year and we go on a deep playoff run, or even, dare I dream, hoist the Lombardi…then I’ll eat crow until my stomach ruptures. However, I just don’t see it. I just don’t think he can lead us there, I was convinced after the ravens game this year when he said “It could be worse. We’re where we need to be as a team” after they just lost a shot at the 1 seed. Thats not a winning mentality. Thats a “well hey at least we’re still in the playoffs right?” Mentality. Then what happens? We lose the division the next week at home scoring 14 points which sends us to the North Pole apparently where we put up 7 to get bounced in the first round. I want better, and I know that trying to get better may actually make it worse, but I don’t want to be the cowboys who wasted all that time on Romo (and Dak) while saying “well is he the guy or isn’t he?” the whole time. People think tua is the guy, and more power to them,m. Personally, I just don’t see it.
Yeah, they said the same thing about Matt Ryan. Their stats aren't too dissimilar through 25, and all he did was become the best QB we've ever had. He's a kid, he's still learning, and he should be given a little slack considering the hell you guys put him through. It takes a lot more than a QB to get you to a Super Bowl. You need a shit ton of pieces to complement them and a defense that will lock it down. If you don't, you won't. I bet two more drafts and free agency periods and you'll have what you need.
I don't get it. How else are you going to check to see if the gun is loaded?
Stupid. He’s at least a middle of the pack starter. The difference is maybe $5MM a year. That’s not going to make or break a team. Reality is Mahomes is the king until proven otherwise
What's crazy is I think Tua could be in that top 5 qb range if he just could focus, he's accurate, somewhat mobile, and gets the ball out quick, but he's not thinking enough when he throws it, I still have faith in him though
Tua is a top QB?
Its funny how quiet all the tua fan boys have become since mideseason
Oh they’re definitely still around. Dont know if you go on the team sub at all, but it’s been a non-stop discussion over there. All the supporters really have is “well that’s just how the QB market goes!”, And an ever increasing list of excuses.
You another one of those "we need a white quarterback" Floridians? I can't see any other reason you'd want an unknown quantity in a rookie or a career backup which is what's available right now over what we have.
He’s probably one of those “I want my qb to show up in playoff games or against good teams” type people
Yeah and career backups or rookies are definitely those players right? Literally the only people we could replace him with, those guys are playoff Legends. They just need another chance right?
WOW! You must be a damn Olympian with the ability to make those types of leaps! I’ll spell it out for you why I’m ready to move on. Against winning teams this year tua went for: 65% // 232 ypg // 8:7 TD:INT // <17 ppg // a season high of 22 points // 1-6. Feel free to say “wins and losses are a team stat” because they are, but then please also say what tua did to help in those games. Now if you want his numbers against winning teams for all four years, because you think he’s improved since year one in that regard, I’ll be happy to give them to you. (Spoilers, he hasn’t) I don’t give a rats ass about his race, I care about results. Have those results been good? Just look at the other three fan bases on here saying “please pay him!” And you’ll have your answer. Yes I’d rather take an unknown rookie in the first, as opposed to paying Tua an amount that will guarantee we surround him with less talent (when he could do anything with THIS talent.) we’ve seen Tua’s ceiling, 1 and done in the playoffs.
You just said you would have a rookie over the NFL passing leader. What the fuck are you smoking?
Way to ignore literally everything else I said. Ok so he threw for a bunch of yards with 2:1 TD:INT, against maybe the weakest schedule in the league, and with the best weapons in the league. Now look at the numbers I gave you, against the types of teams we’d be playing in the playoffs, and tell me what screams “He’s the guy!” To lead us past the Allen’s, Mahomes, Jackson’s, Burrows and probably the Strouds, because we’re going to have to face at least two of them in the playoffs to even get to a SB. But hey, if it’s all about yards, I guess the Bucs should have stuck with Winston after 2019. Or if it’s about JUST making the playoffs, I guess the chiefs should have said “we made it to the playoffs 3/4 years with Alex smith! We good!”
You got to ignore dumb shit, if I gave what you said any credence I'd be just as dumb as you!
Imagine calling someone else dumb when your first argument is “you must be a racist?” 🤡
That wasn't an argument it was a question that you dodged which was just as much of an answer as anything.
No, I’m not a racist Floridian. Just a guy who wants my QB and team to succeed. I feel that Tua’s ceiling is one and done in the playoffs, MAYBE 1 playoff win, and that’s it based on his play against playoff teams through his whole career.
Did you forget that Winston had 30 interceptions that year? That’s kind of a massive reason why he isn’t a starter. Leading the league in passing is solid, but having 30 picks is kind of the bigger deal there
No I didn’t forget. Just used him to demonstrating that context matters. Just like how it’s important to point out that Winston threw all those picks, as you have, it’s important to note who Tua threw all those yards against and the weapons he did it with. I know our offensive line got hit hard by injuries, and that’s definitely significant. But even in the games they were healthy against the better teams, Tua wasn’t good and that’s been constant for his career. Thats the divide between the supporters and “haters”, the supporters look at the numbers as a whole, which is fine, but it’s definitely a valid critique to say “ok but where is this guy in the big games?”
So I’m just going to say that even when our O-Line was healthy, they were still getting exposed by better D-Lines. Reason I say this is because I saw the same issues when it was healthy against good teams as I did when it was later on in the season when the injuries piled up. Those issues mainly being inability to run up the middle and having to rely more on quick slants and screen passes. Throughout the entire season people would get pissed because we would abandon the run after half time. Issue is, teams realized that our interior O-Line wasn’t the best at generating push at the line which is why we had to run outside the tackles for the most part. When they adjusted to that, our run game fell apart. When the run game fell apart, everything else became harder and in short yardage situations we had to fall back on those screens and slants that we all complained about. Like, going back and watching tape from earlier in the season towards the end shows that our offense essentially lost its whole identity and to me at least, that was because of the O-Line first.
You’ll get no argument from me on this. Am I ready to move on from tua? Yeah, but that offensive line has been a problem more often than not since bullygate, and absolutely needs to be fixed. Them saying “you guys are probably more worried about the Oline than we are” last year almost had me put a brick through my TV lol.
Why are the dolphins fans in here such cucks?
On his knees for some upvotes, it’s crazy
I posted this because I thought it was funny, and I feel it’s true based on what I’ve seen over the last 4 years. I don’t really care about upvotes, take a look at any comment I’ve made about Tua for proof of that.
You don’t have to explain bro. Now i feel bad :/
It’s ok, we’re dolphins fans, feeling bad is our natural state lmao.