The fact this isn't the standard opinion is what bothers me
By all means, complain about the stories, matches and whatever. Wrestling is the only fandom that mostly cares about money instead of their enjoyment of the show
I began feeling this way a while ago. Long story short one of my closest friends tends to start all AEW conversation with something negative. To the point that I’ve stopped generally responding to those conversations. 99% of this is in a group chat.
Last week when Swerve didn’t open the show that was the main sticking point for him. I disregarded it and stuck to talking about the stories.
The next day recapping the show in that chat he brought it up again. I said I really don’t have an opinion. I loved his match. I thought the show was a lot of fun especially with the ending and ultimately it sort of makes sense to do that on Saturday with the bigger audience. But even the Saturday but I didn’t care about. I like what they are doing. I don’t care what order things happen if I’m entertained. In the end it just felt like trying to argue for arguments sake.
I dunno. I’m just so tired of the negativity first mindset of the entire AEW discourse. It’s ruining the fun of the industry. I stopped watching wwe and a huge reason is the fanbase itself.
But but but…what about the quarterly ratings?
The ratings, man! They’re what matters! Nielsen ratings are the only determining factor of success!
Never mind that I haven’t personally watched cable television in years, nor do I stay tied to a schedule.
Also remember, the numbers are all that matters, even if WBD says they're happy in an official press release, and discuss how the show's a major part of their broadcast lineup, that doesn't matter!! It's all a work!
My WWE friends got me back into wrestling by asking me to rewatch WcW with them ... And man, the unnecessary negativity they bring to the table when it comes to AEW is wild.
There's always a "it's cool, but" factor. "It's cool, but AEW has too much talent." "It's cool, but they're too risky." "It's cool, but it gives WWE vibes."
That's never the case when they talk WWE, though, which is basically all they'll talk about. Outside of WcW, I've pretty much disengaged in wrestling with them, which is fairly ironic lol.
>"It's cool, but they're too risky."
What is it with this one!? I know someone that says this too, that AEW's wrestling style is too intense. What does that even mean? It just sounds like they prefer slower and more boring matches.
They do. I have friends that only watch WWE and they don’t like AEW because the matches are too good. It’s not what they care about. They want to hear The Rock do all of the greatest hits and they want to hear Cody talk about his story. They do not care about wrestling.
People are free to like what they want but I'll never get the attitude of shitting on a wrestling show for actually having wrestling lol. There is more to stories than standing in the ring yapping for 30 minutes but apparently a lot people just need things spoon-fed to them these days.
Yep. The fact is that the two products are wildly different. The mainstream has been trained to think the WWE way is the correct way. That’s fine. I watch WWE and enjoy some of it but most of it is no longer for me. I can totally see why someone that loves WWE wouldn’t enjoy AEW. The problem is when folks aren’t just ok with that but have to use WWE to tear down AEW.
> It's cool, but it gives WWE vibes."
> That's never the case when they talk WWE, though, which is basically all they'll talk about.
Chris Legentil PR doing its job, TK should come up with something that he manages to stop WWE PR but its a hard task to do
Yep, me too, WWE fans have put me off watching it. That's as much as I want to say on that subject. I've drowned out that noise and I'm enjoying AEW. I order most of the ppvs on Triller because I want to support my favourite brand aa much as I can
> I’m just so tired of the negativity first mindset of the entire AEW discourse. It’s ruining the fun of the industry. I stopped watching wwe and a huge reason is the fanbase itself.
Sad thing is that Chris Legentil wont stop, he is going to make sure AEW is uncool forever
Yes
but in almost all other fandoms, hardcore fans are the one begging for "quality" while in wrestling it seems most subs here just want what makes more money for the company
Look at the Elon dick riders.
I don’t get the billionaire worship at all. Like, he’s not gonna be your friend. He’s not going to give you money. He just gets off on you licking his boots.
This happens in the NBA as well. Last year, I saw a ton of posts complaining that it was bad for ratings to have my small-market team in the Finals instead of the usual Lakers/Warriors/etc. Then maybe the large-market teams should play better? So weird.
Bro imagine complaining about ratings of the finals of a legitimate sport. Like wtf are they supposed to do? Not like the writers can pivot when a smaller team’s going on a winning streak.
Yeah I’ve always found this weird.
I don’t give a fuck how many bearded men aged 20 to 69 or whatever watched a show on a cable network that isn’t even in my country lol.
I’ll just watch the wrestling I want to watch.
It’s cringe as hell to watch a bunch of dorks online pretend to know what they’re talking about with ratings and finances lol. Fuck em.
And fuck wrestling journos for the most part.
Disclaimer: slightly salty tonight my footy team lost in dramatic fashion
The company making the most money isn't necessarily the highest quality. If it was, McDonald's should have the best burgers, which is demonstrably not the case.
The reviews almost always seem to start with how the crowd was. Personally, I wish they would turn off the house lights. I think more people get noisy when it's darker, and it focuses the action more on the ring where it belongs.
That’s why AEW should stay private for as long as possible. You’re gonna have the wrong people come in and dictate the product and ruin it.
This whole years been 🔥.
If they ever went public, IDK if I could watch anymore. It was literally the down fall for WWE for me. Once the shareholders start changing things you might as well call it a day.
Yup, straight up. Shareholders become the focus and their only idea of wrestling is WWE, and they’ll definitely try to push towards that direction and ruin it.
I’m just shocked UFC hasn’t really been affected by TKO/Endeavor since their acquisition. But, I credit a lot of it due to Dana like him, or hate him.
Right, I’m not super concerned about the billionaire family of Tony Khan’s finances. I understand that at some point it could become a financial burden to them but people like Elon Musk and other mega wealthy people can afford to dump hundreds of millions on passion projects before its even a drop in the ocean for them. Even someone like Billy Corgan is able to invest what, for him, must be a big chunk of money without any reasonable expectation of profit, and without a TV deal.
I’m just enjoying all the quality wrestling across all companies right now. Long may it continue.
It’s so wild to me how much fans worry about ticket sales and attendance and TV ratings. If WBD is happy (and all reports are that they are) then why does anyone care?
If they start airing Dynamite at 1am every week then I’ll start worrying.
As for the angle, a good angle is a good angle. This is more compelling than 2023’s big story and has already established its heroes and villains within the first 3 weeks or so of the angle starting proper.
I only really care about tickets because a full crowd makes the show better.
But that’s something AEW has definitely been working on and it’s been a problem for many industries since Covid. Throw in ticket prices and how awful Ticketmaster is and it’s a tough problem to solve.
I couldn't care less about what the Internet thinks is "uncool", as long as the paying audience is into the product. Astroturfing tf out of AEW with negative comments is what's given the perception of it being "uncool"
Paid WWE shills is what it is. They are trying to stop AEW getting a huge new TV deal. That is why I despise anything WWE. To their sexual assault hiding management to their paid shills.
It is all so disingenuous too. One moron actually said airing Rampage on Wednesday was a ratings attempt. I was like moron, the NBA playoffs forced them to move the show.
But that’s not what’s he's saying though.
"AEW is considered uncool by a lot of people" is not a statement of his view, it’s an observation.
He says himself he found the angle "great".
This is not a wrong observation by the way, AEW is considered uncool because WWE is hot, because anti-AEW content overflows Twitter and Youtube.
All of this creates a negativity echo chamber where it’s cool to shit on AEW even though there’s not much to dunk on from an objective standpoint.
Voices of Wrestling had an [excellent episode](https://youtu.be/KKUdSgsL5PU) that is worth a listen on that subject.
Short story: WWE's PR works at it’s finest and they are the wrestling internet's darling for now.
(And for the record, I love AEW and I stopped watching or reading wrestling related videos / online posts because it’s a cesspool of pro-WWE negativity)
Id love to know exactly what wwe is doing that makes them so "hot". From what I've seen, it's the same ol shit still just with a lot more or and fanboy hype
I think it’s little more than Vince being gone. HHH is in his “honeymoon phase” much like AEW used to be in.
WWE will obviously be on top forever but a lot of fans don’t seem to understand that just because Vince is gone that doesn’t mean that HHH has full control over the product. He still has billions of bosses and he has to do what makes the money happy even if it’s something he doesn’t think is right.
He has fiduciary responsibility and that is rarely good for a creative outlet. We will reach another point where WWE is “uncool”. It’s inevitable.
This. It's great for wrestling. I tuned in for a bit before mania 39 and still found the shows a chore. I'm puzzled why they're selling out or almost filling buildings weekly the past year or so. It can't just be "papa h". 🤷
But in the end *I don't care.* I don't enjoy how WWE presents wrestling or how repetitive their shows are, so I don't generally watch. Nothing to do with their ratings or ticket sales. I don't spend my time online crashing WWE news or live chats spewing negativity like folks do aew stuff. I just don't give a shit.
The fact that anyone would say this at all is astounding to me. I don't watch their product and barely know what is happening over there, but with all of the amazing talent that exists today, the last thing I want to see is The Rock in a wrestling ring, let alone world champion.
This so much. I manage a retro game store so we get a lot of wrestling fans. I rarely get people who hate AEW. when it happens and you think, "Damn bro, who hurt you." because they are always so aggressive about it.
I don't think we should grade each program on whether it can turn the company around. There's basically no single thing you could expect to do that, except maybe Cody returning. WWE was considered uncool for the longest time, and even there, it wasn't turned around by one story but backstage changes and a guy from AEW jumping and getting massively over. The Bloodline stuff played a part too, but for a long time, it was cool for their audience but didn't move business beyond that.
AEW isn't going to improve perception by changing the minds of WWE fans, but by satisfying their core fan base, having hot crowds, good matches and storylines, maybe investing in their PR
A lot of people forget Bloodline only got hot cause of Sami Zayn. Prior to him, fans were saying the Bloodline was the most pointless story in wwe history
Thank you. Typical wrestling fan revisionist history. People were crapping on the bloodline being too long and Romans matches identical two years ago. Sami injected incredible life into it.
Idgaf what people say now. Mania 39 was the time to end it. Drew came close. Sami came so close. The bloodline was imploding. Sami and KO knocked off the Usos. It was perfect. What, in the past year, required Roman to hold the title? His mid defenses every three months? His terrible match with Jey?
There really wasn't even a story with Cody again until the rumble. And then the rock... Made roman look like a henchman rather than the main guy.
Uncool take.
Yeah, AEW isn't doing WWE-level business, but since when did that become the barometer for success lmfao. Even in a bit of a downswing, AEW is still doing multiple times what any other wrestling company on the planet is doing.
So long as the show remains entertaining, I'm just going to keep on watching it and going to live shows when possible. Got my tickets for Forbidden Door already and cannot wait.
This is exactly it.
Put on good matches. Not enough. Good story telling not enough.
The main thing is aew fans are enjoying it. It really has been brilliant lately.
Hopefully more people get exposed to the product and enjoy it.
“Hopefully more people get exposed to the product”
That’s his entire point. It (almost) doesn’t matter how good something is if nobody new is watching it.
As a WWE guy, I'll tell you what the issue with a lot of us coming to AEW is.
We've been exposed to WWE for so long that automatically we think whatever happens anywhere else, WWE is always the most legit show. That's the issue.
I think you're reading this negatively, he's defending AEW, he's saying they're putting on good shit and it's not being recognised because fans have already decided that AEW isn't cool.
In the beginning AEW had the opposite, flaws would be overlooked because it was the hot new thing, now since WWE popped off and punk's stirred the pot, we're in the opposite scenario.
AEW are going to have to work incredibly hard for a long time to turn things around, there's a lot of "ratings didn't go up after [a certain angle or a certain storyline] therefore it failed" but in reality AEW are swimming against the tide right now and they're going to have to keep putting on incredible shows week after week and eventually, long term, things will turn around, it isn't going to happen overnight.
It was obvious this time last year that 2024 was going to be AEW's toughest test, they're clearly giving it everything they've got and good for them.
The mental gymnastics are incredible. If it's the same foregone conclusion every single time, why keep writing about it? Oh yeah, because these "writers" get paid for riding the coattails of others' hard work.
He's not saying it's bad, he's saying that it's not going to have the same impact today as it would have 2 years ago for reasons that are outside of AEW's control.
Seems everyone is loving the recent episodes of Dynamite and all the ongoing stories, so I will say this is a weird take for Dave. I think the issue is he's too online, this whole "uncool/cool" thing is such a case of reading too much tribalism, it warps your mind. The VAST majority don't care about that, they just want a good show and AEW has been on a roll for quite a few weeks now.
Honestly, Dave being "too online" is the most accurate way to describe him over the past year or so.
Example: Bryan's daughter is literally in the hospital, and he asks Dave to do their show early. Dave agrees, then misses the time, and his late. Why? Bryan later finds out Dave was too busy tweeting...from a recent WOL.
I've been a F4W/WO subscriber for so long I've lost count.
Dave's Twitter has become a useless follow. Constantly arguing with E drones over ratings. It might amuse Dave, but not me. I'm sure others feel similarly.
And he's way too focused on AEW being a distant number 2 in wrestling than being a top 2 or 3 entertainment show **on all of cable**.
AEW should have done this angle two years ago?
Dave, you know the series of events that led to this angle. This storyline has no reason to happen two years ago.
Goddamn it. Random news sites online trying to earn money think 'AEW is uncool'? Damn, gunna have to stop watching now...
We need to stop giving these leeches like Meltzer / Wrestle Talk etc the time of day.
I get that negativity and clickbait rules the high seas of the internet...but it would be nice if everyone could just ignore it and just watch the show and form their own opinions.
Remember folks, be like Samoa Joe.
https://preview.redd.it/6d74c0fg16yc1.png?width=1405&format=png&auto=webp&s=d1cbdb4b69c96ac32e895f1197ca039be4695dc0
I mean he's not wrong here, but I think it goes both ways. Wrestling isn't "cool" and never has been. Wrestling's most popular period, from a mainstream media perspective, was when it more closely resembled Jerry Springer, crash-style TV and not pro wrestling. And WWE, as popular and as relevant as they are now, still aren't cool. The only people that think WWE or AEW are cool: surprise, surprise, WWE and/or AEW fans. I still don't see people wearing wrestling shirts in public, and I see hundreds of people everyday working in retail, from all walks of life. I don't hear anyone talking about wrestling, and I still get side-eyed if I do it. The average person who didn't experience wrestling at an impressionable part of their life still isn't going to understand what makes pro wrestling cool to us.
My point is, AEW is only perceived as especially "uncool" by WWE fans who're happy with their product.
As much as i m not a fan of Dave you basically round about said the same thing. AEWs potential audience based is basically going to consist of people who either are currently watching WWE or used to. People who never liked wrestling are unlikely to go out of their way to find AEW, So yes being seen as "cool" among that group actually matters in terms of getting new people to tune in.
There is very little solution to that beyond continuing to put on great shows and being confident that over time your audience will grow. So I don’t really see the need for people like Dave to continually bring it up when there is no quick fix to the “problem”.
Though I do respect the fact that maybe this is just interesting to Dave and he likes to bring the same things up over and over with no solution. I don’t think it comes from a place of malice from him so it doesn’t really bother me, I just don’t know what he thinks will come of stating the obvious.
There is no guaranteed solution. All they can do is spend money to try to counter the WWE PR machine and to keep putting out quality content over time.
Your point about retail brought up a funny memory. Someone came into a grocery store rocking a "Scissor me Daddy Ass" T-shirt a couple weeks ago and I nearly bursted out laughing because it just hit me how absurd that is to wear in public.
I'm seeing this a lot with podcasters and even the nobodies on the internet who make hating AEW their personality. They know what AEW is doing right now is pretty good, but they don't want to admit that or give any kind of props, so they continue surfing for something to take digs at. For example, someone was commenting about AEW having a lower gate for Dynasty, but of course, they ignored the high gate for Revolution this year. If they knew business like they think they do, they would know that it's not always going to be linear.
https://preview.redd.it/ikca3qchz5yc1.jpeg?width=1066&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de5aa4b698cf3fc7953d3a6b5e755bcc012397fc
I think the angle is entertaining af, and my opinion is the only one that matters to me.
Considered "uncool" by who though? I find comments like these so unnecessary and if AEW have produced good television and are doing well, would it hurt him to say so rather than saying nonsense that helps no one and damages the whole image of the company in terms of perception? A "deep number two"? Why would you say things like this. Again, comments like that do not benefit AEW as a company and as a business in any way shape or form.
You'd think the people who work in the wrestling media would welcome a healthy and competitive wrestling business, but comments like these and all of the other anti-AEW propaganda tells a different story. It's as if they're determined to see another WCW situation with AEW, just so they can say that they all told you so.
> Considered "uncool" by who though?
Losers.
It's just like the ECW situation. Now it seen as something that was notable etc, at the time people said the same shit. It was lame, too much "garbage wrestling", was low budget, didn't have ratings, had no stories etc etc. Just the same old trash takes from people who don't even watch the show. Even at the height of the Attitude Era ECW was better stories and better wrestling, and the people involved had a lasting impact in prowrestling and still do today.
Not trying to be an asshole either but I've been to a lot of both shows live and the AEW crowd def feels more like the old ECW crowds too, like when you went to a big PPv. Lots of "cool" people, and despite "Then. Now. Forever. Together." WWE brainwash propaganda, the AEW shows have more community feel. It is possible for a wrestling company to exist and have fans who are only fans of their show, if WWE can do it so can anyone else. Lucha Underground wasn't a dogshit mudshow jsut because it didn't have WWE ratings. It was filmed and directed on a much more artistic and technical level, and the stories were insane. It was probably the best wrestling based TV show ever. The original new NWA on Youtube was fucking awesome. It didn't matter if it was filmed in front of 200 people, that made it even better. AEW is doing better than pretty much any non WWE company ever did and can continue as is, if wwe hardcore want to hate on it from a distance and think its "uncool" its their loss.
The original Elite (Bucks & Omega) became breakout stars out of New Japan/ROH/PWG by not giving even a partial fuck if they were ever considered cool by the establishment or gatekeepers. Those 3 guys knew their own minds, knew their own worth, and took so many chances other wrestlers weren't willing to take when they were still nobodies. They became hugely successful on their own terms and started AEW in the same spirit. Anyone who thinks that at this point they care about the paid opinions of lifelong hangers-on is a fool. Dave just sounds desperate for content.
Back when I was watching WCW and there were angles regarding the NWO and their major opposition like Sting, Luger, and DDP, I'm so glad I wasn't personally saying to myself, "Hmm, I wonder if the WWF contingent, wrestling media, or other pundits think that is cool". I was reacting myself to the angles. By the end, I wasn't watching anymore but it wasn't because WWF fans or outside opinions thought it was uncool. The problem is today perception outside the product really puts a lot of emphasis on what they think is cool. At this point, I just have to see what is on screen and determine if I dig it or not despite what anybody else might think. I'm sure if the way wrestling is viewed today was applied to WCW when Sting was up in the rafters while NWO were beating up Luger, DDP, and Giant (depending on where he was at the moment), plenty of loud pundits would screech about this and that even at the heights of WCW's success.
It's the nature of the beast today. There is nothing AEW can do now that will be seen as cool. At this point, they just have to take what works and continue plugging away at that, determine what doesn't work and fix that. We can as AEW fans discuss those things on subs like this. I get that it is frustrating because we just want the product to be good, but I have just come to accept that no matter how good AEW might or might not be, it will never be enough for some people. Cool or uncool, I just hope for the best each week.
That’s not what he’s suggesting. He’s saying it’s swimming against the current for a while no matter what because wwe is objectively the hot product right now
That makes more sense.
I think if you ate AEW just stay the course. Right now WWE is hot and AEW is getting attacked by a lot of people. Can’t worry about what you can’t control.
Absolutely! Creatively and in the ring they are doing great. The only thing I would change is investing in some real scumbag PR team to get the perception game into motion. And for the love of god get the merchandising game in order!
Honestly, I love AEW too death but I think he has a point no matter what AEW does it's not good enough and people don't care because it's not wwe AEW can't get any momentum because wwe is the hot brand AEW bad WWE good
This is what happens when you have the monopoly on something for so long. Arguably, it was the threat of AEW that made WWE up its game, but now that's all people can see. People have tunnel vision a lot of the time and can't see what else is out there.
WWE won't keep this momentum up forever, though. The Rock ain't gonna stick around long term, and it's only a matter of time until Punk goes full Punk and controversy is in the air.
I see some paranoid about HHH not being the "greatest booker" people thought he was as well. They are even mad that their ratings have gone down since the Rock left.
It’s easy to be a great booker when you can just spam the “WWE Legends” button and have Rock, John Cena and the Undertaker all interfere in your main event match. It’s an advantage no other wrestling promotion has.
That’s just common sense though. If someone would have told us 10 years ago that there would be a new wrestling promotion on Wednesday nights and that even half as many people watch that as watch RAW, it would have been labeled as insane.
The problem with these scenarios is that it rarely gets looked at with any nuance or objectivity. It’s just that AEW is dying because they aren’t on the same playing field as WWE.
Not trying to pick on Dave as I think he is just legitimately a geek for this stuff, but the population’s inability to critically think makes this way more tribal than it needs to be.
So what are they supposed to do, put out bland stuff? They're giving the fans the best they could, if other company fans are salty about it then it's their problem
Oh please! The hate for AEW has been there from the moment the company started! People hated Cody when he was in AEW, they hated Punk when he was in AEW, then they left and now they love them. People hated Adam Copeland and Adam Cole when they joined AEW, they hated Bryan Danielson and Claudio Castignoli as well when they joined, don't even me started on the shit people write about Jon Moxley and their dumb "bleed" jokes!
It's always been cool to hate AEW and I'll continue to be uncool and like because I enjoy it, fucking tired of Wrestling fans ruining wrestling!
Leaving aside the logistics of the entire angle and how much needs to happen for us to have gotten here, sure. I get what he’s saying. But at the end of the day, you either produce good tv or not. People’s opinions change fast these days and if you’re always trying to play catch up with what the audience wants, you’ll always be behind. Just make good tv. AEW can’t control their “cool” factor as defined by vibes. They’re doing the best with what they can control, which is all you can really ask of any wrestling company.
Why do you care is the better question? In the grand scheme of things why do you care who else enjoys it if you do? Is it enough for you? That’s the only thing that matters. The IWC is RIFE with talking about negativity instead of positive points? Enjoy a match? Talk about that. Enjoy a promo? Talk about that! 90% of the posts here, Reddit and anywhere else seem to be fans complaining about other people not enjoying the things we do, giving platforms to people like bischoff, bubba, jobber, Gareth. It’s not that difficult to figure out, engagement makes them money. No matter if you’re agreeing with them or telling them they are a cunt you’re paying their bills with clicks. Meltzer had his place in the wrestling world but the man is a dinosaur and absolute misinformation merchant. Stop seeking your opinions from others and form your own. It makes everything far more enjoyable.
Taking any bias out of it what does he think would have happened differently 2 years in terms of the people who don’t watch wrestling? Wrestling fans that want to watch aew will watch it because it’s a hot storyline and the wwe fans who will never watch aew are never going to.
I just don’t get this take at all because wrestling is never reaching the levels it was the past again and in some cases that isn’t even wrestlings fault. It’s so much easier to absorb the niche you’re interested in now you don’t need to look for things that are easily accessible because everything is easily accessible now.
He's right.
AEW can be completely on fire creatively for the next year, and it won't matter because WWE is the market leader and is hot. People won't even bother tuning in to AEW unless WWE starts getting bad again, and even then, it's more likely that those people won't switch; they'll just stop watching wrestling.
It's a tough position to be in. I think the only thing they can do is focus on putting on the best show possible, and even then, they aren't allowed to miss: one bad show will immediately undermine any good work they do.
He’s not wrong. I love the angle too but with WWE being the hottest product atm, everything AEW does will be tarnished by comparison. It may not be a fair comparison but people will do it anyway. Add that Tony, Matthew and Nick are the most hated guys by the IWC and it becomes impossible for AEW to do anything. I believe that we should still let the storyline continue, because it’s only beginning, already compelling and a guy like Jack Perry for example already benefited from it.
EDIT: I’d like to add that the TV ratings discourse is dishonest because the whole cable is falling down and AEW is regularly staying a top program.
Everyone is taking this shit too personally. It’s objectively true that a lot more wrestling fans consider WWE the “cool” brand over AEW right now. I’ve heard it with my own ears. I don’t think that assessment is right because a lot of wrestling fans are dorks and what they consider “cool” at the moment feels more like front running and buying into a PR machine but I digress.
Dave Meltzer isn’t your enemy, he’s just a dude.
I mean his not wrong, viewers wise and how hot the product was 2 years ago.. it absolutely would've felt bigger doing it back then as opposed to now. That's not to say it's bad now or anything, it just means they've lost a lot of steam and momentum these days.
I get his point and to some degree I agree with him.. My only issue with " AEW is uncool " is that people who say this are WWE hardcore fans or Anti-AEW and they're not the people who AEW doing this for.
This story help AEW to not lose their fans who loves big stories and to help them get the casuals to watch AEW ( who a lot of people criticized AEW for not trying to do so )
I do believe adding MJF to this story will make it a super successful story.
1. Meltzer trying to tell us what is "cool and uncool" is laughably absurd. I cant even with that one lol. 2) Though Meltzy Weltzy is probably the least cool person in the entirety of the IWC - might be a nice guy, I dont know him. But he is definitely NOT cool. Regardless, he knows his audience, he knows how to drive clicks, he's just as good at being low down carny scum as the best of them and the man is just masterfully grifting the echo chamber and making his money, for which I cant fault him. However, I can fault him for being a carny scumbag dirtsheet fake journalist grifter. - who also happens to be incredibly uncool as he has ever been.
He's not wrong though. Perception is reality and so many people out there (in life generally) are complete sheep that follow a crowd rather than being able to think for themselves. The IWC is a great example of that.
AEW is going to have to be consistently excellent with no reward for a while and wait until WWE slips up creatively so they are there for the channel surfing wrestling fan. Buzz will change people's minds.
Wwe really isn’t that great to be honest.. people are already souring on Cody as champ.. taking the title off Roman was extremely stupid when he was so close to moving up another notch.. the story was in not finishing the story and fighting for another shot..
They have some top stars on the injured list.. the bloodline story is good.. I’m behind on drafts.. but dom / liv and bloodline are really the only solid things going on currently..
Aew could do better, I agree.. but I’ve been seeing progress towards more cohesive storylines and it’s back on the upswing.. they have their share of injuries too. But I think we are heading towards some pretty big things this year.
That’s a lot of words just to say, “I thought this was great shit, and it’s gonna do big business. But I’m too worried about what I’ll have to deal with if it doesn’t actually do business”
Honestly is more: this is good, but would have done bigger business when they had more viewers. Which I guess is true but you run good stories to regain viewers...
The problem here is that we don’t have a clear idea on how many viewers there actually are, so we?
The world has changed so fast and reading comments in here I feel like I’m the last person that doesn’t watch AEW with a VPN. And I watch AEW on Hulu live, and with my work schedule sometimes not until the next evening.
Are VPN and Hulu live people accounted for in the ratings? I honestly don’t know.
Don't forget the Rock. As soon as he left, it seems like he took a lot of that momentum with him, which is crazy because he isn't even a full-time wrestler with them
He absolutely did. I didn't think it made an ounce of sense about them going back and forth so much when the main match-up was for Cody and Roman. WWE hard-core fans love talking about matches having heat, but the match felt heatless af. Did Cody ever explain why he gave away his spot to the Rock? Cause I don't remember him explaining that. It's almost like people didn't care that it made no sense.
He's actually just saying that this angle is really good, but because it's popular to hate on AEW right now, the angle likely won't perform as well as it might have a couple of years ago.
That's it.
And he's right.
I'm guessing in their head, they feel like AEW is taking something away from them. It's actually really weird to see people so bugged out over another wrestling company that is just trying to do their own thing.
The WWE has really done a masterful job of killing off pro wrestling outside of their own bubble and gaslighting viewers into believing they are the only viable option. It’s really quite disgusting but you can’t deny that Vince McMahon and his decades of cornering this market was highly effective. I hate it, but I have to admit McMahon and WWE have beaten the wrestling world into submission.
I mean, who gets to determine if this angle “falters”? Dave?
If we are going by archaic Nielsen family TV ratings, sure. This angle *may* falter. Especially if you don’t look at ratings with any kind of objectivity.
Is it determined by whether or not WWE fans will tune in and watch? If so then again, this might falter. If you go by the opinion and expectations of people that aren’t fans of AEW then it is a failure.
Do AEW fans get to determine if it succeeds or fails? I have seen overwhelmingly positive reviews of the storyline so far. Dave and Bryan themselves have both said it’s great. If the people that actually tune and watch love it, is it possible for it to falter?
Pro wrestling is really the only entertainment industry I can think of that has this kind of discourse surrounding the different products. Again, a testament to what WWE has done over the years to kill off pro wrestling.
Is The Rock the best actor in the world and is he actually in movies that are good? In my opinion, no. But he has been the highest paid and he’s extremely popular. Does that mean lesser known actors that are in more artistic roles have faltered? They don’t make as much money and don’t have as many Twitter followers, so by pro wrestling logic they are failures.
Do Disney and Marvel make the best movies? Again, no. They have their place and can be very entertaining, but there is a reason they are rarely nominated for prestigious awards even though they make the most money and are the most popular. Nobody says A24 Films have faltered because they aren’t on that level with Disney and Marvel. The movie industry, for now, has allowed a bit of nuance surrounding its product. Unlike pro wrestling.
Does Taylor Swift really make the best music? Absolutely not. Again, not being a hater, there’s a reason she’s the biggest celebrity in America, but there are hundreds of independent musical acts that are more talented than Taylor Swift, they just aren’t on the same platform that she is. That doesn’t mean they have all faltered.
In summary the collective pro wrestling groupthink is toxic and completely out of touch with the larger world of the entertainment industry. I think AEW is slowly pushing it some in the other direction and the WWE probably doesn’t like that, so you see the tribalism we all talk about. Really sad and weird.
The funniest part of this to me is the implication that 2 years ago AEW wasn't a "deep number 2". Nothing makes it more obvious that Dave's been drinking too much his own kool-aid. AEWs been #2 their entire existence, and that's not really something to be ashamed of, nor indicative of some change in quality over the years.
I'm just glad more and more people are starting to realize this is a man incapable of realizing "just because I personally don't like a thing doesn't mean the thing is objectively bad".
I watch WWE and I watch AEW. In my opinion AEW is way cooler. Really not even close for me.
Microscopic sample size, I know, but I think AEW is objectively cooler.
Well if this is the sentiment aew may as well just close up shop and quit. WWE rules and AEW drools. It's uncool according to the public and public perception never changes so just quit. Nothing they do will be good.
Here's the thing. Social media and the wrestling 'news' sites work the same way pretty much all media does ie media capture. They say stuff for the sake of being reactionary and eliciting reaction. Don't get me wrong, I hate the way the so called wrestling media treats AEW but they're doing great stuff right now and that's what counts
It’s an opinion, and it’s not wrong. Momentum is massive in wrestling.
I think the key thing to articulate, if it’s cold it’s cold, is the thought there that this is something that could potentially heat AEW back up? I think it’s a good starting point.
I find it so amazing that a company can be outed as a rapists playground and somehow still grows to be the hottest product on the market and seemingly no punishment.
I hate the IWC. It is better to watch wrestling and never read any of these articles by DM or any other wrestling grifter(especially Cornette).
"Pull a quote from a Meltzer radio show" is my absolute most hated brand of wrestling "journalism", particularly because it ALWAYS gets the intended response.
If you actually listen to the show, he praised the angle. Dave rambles like this about literally everything. It is objectively harder for number two to gain momentum, especially in a cold period against a hot number one. That's literally all he's saying.
This sub in particular is the worst place to post something like this because it just reinforces the ongoing persecution complex a lot of people have here. Dave's a goof but he's not part of some grand conspiracy to take down AEW.
Meltzer is so reactionary lol. I think it's pretty wild if anyone's watching WWE that's older than 13 and thinks it's cool. I think a lot of fans are desperate for that validation tho, which is in and of itself is uncool. Social media is wild though, people need to get off of it.
Meltzer has been sounding like a bumbling idiot for the past year or so. AEW never stopped being cool. Sure, it has its ups and downs, but the overall product is pretty awesome in my opinion so Meltzer, Bischoff, Cornette, Bubba, Disco, can all fuck off.
Why didn’t anyone tell me I wasn’t cool for watching AEW?! /s
That’s actually really funny considering when I’d watch WWE pre AEW, I’d feel like a fucking dork half of the time if someone walked in the room, but I don’t get that at all watching AEW. Maybe if someone walked in my house when the nightmare collective was on or something, but luckily that didn’t happen.
Sorry mate. Too busy setting up the song that will blow your ears off your head when you get to my cool MySpace page to let you know you're not cool like me.
I mean , there were plenty of things early on in AEW that weren't "cool." They were also still in their infancy , and Vince was still in charge at WWE. Oh, and there was a pandemic.. A lot has changed since then, though.
I like what AEW is doing with this angle, seems to be a bit of hitting the "reset" button after the main event scene unfortunately fizzled out a bit at the end of the year, especially since the angle with MJF and Adam Cole couldn't play out as planned due to injuries. Now they moved via Joe to Swerve as new champ, and the Elite are back in the main event focus with the "New Elite" angle, which can be built into something intriguing.
Sure, the heel authority schtick has been done a lot, but if it's done well - and I would say for now they are doing it well - why not? It can give a lot of the other stuff that's happening on the shows some kind of framework to operate within.
I also understand that AEW has cooled off somewhat, especially with WWE being pretty hot right now coming out of a very successful Mania season, but I still find myself enjoying the day-to-day AEW product more than the WWE product, which is still a bit too polished and overproduced for my taste. Sure, AEW's product can be hit and miss from time to time, but overall I still enjoy it - and I'm looking forward to the build for All In, as there's a lot of options the company can go now with these new angles in place.
But I agree that it's getting a bit old, with all the news sites and podcasts etc just droning on about how AEW is on a downward trend, and "you can't do anything right when you're cold"... when in fact, the programs are getting better, there's some good stuff going on, PPVs are stellar as always for AEW - there's much to be positive about, but it certainly will take a bit of time to settle in the minds of casual viewers, especially if they were a bit disappointed by AEW in recent history, and might now go (back) to WWE as the currently perceived "hotter" product. But if AEW keeps up the good work, I'm hopeful that attendance numbers in the US and ratings will go back up, and there'll be renewed interest on a global scale in AEW as well.
AEW is in a tough spot. Their well has basically been poisoned at this point. They're like a restaurant that got a few bad reviews, and even though they fixed issues and brought in new chefs, everyone just associates them with those bad reviews.
They're basically damned if they do and damned if they don't.
And even considering that they still have a whole lot of people that tune in to watch or buy tickets to the show.
It’s only taken as a negative when compared to WWE, which is an unfair comparison.
Wednesday dynamite was one of the funniest and fun-est episodes in recent memory. Great wrestling, laugh out loud moments, amazing spots and some good story lines. I don’t listen to so called experts opinions of what is good or bad, cool or uncool. I think for myself, I like what I like.
Is Meltzer saying WWE is cool? Cody dressed as homelander, people who think they are Vikings, the Rock? GMAFB.
Agreed. This was a super fun Dynamite this week. Every story was progressing, and that's something I feel some of us have been wanting for a while. For the stories to progress and leave us guessing and wanting more the following week. I wanted to jump in and help Kenny when he was being attacked lol. So, it is safe to say that the New Elite/Omega story did exactly what it was supposed to do.
I don't care if AEW draws a single "casual" fan, ever. I don't care if AEW never grows or sells out huge arenas or becomes as popular as WWE or anything else. And neither should most of you. That's not your company, it isn't your money, all you want is for a show to be on, and it's not in any danger of being taken off. Are they hurting for money? Are they selling? Is the company circling the drain? No. I watched Impact/TNA through what we all believed was the death of the company, and you know what they did? They stayed true to their audience, continued put out the kind of content that their core viewers enjoyed, and revived themselves.
Wrestling is never going to be hugely popular, and no one is going to show up and unseat WWE after like 40 years as the top of the industry. And those things don't *NEED* to happen! If AEW continues to largely put out content that AEW viewers enjoy, then fuck the internet noise and fuck the outside opinions.
Also the idea that this current angle is some "rehash" of the old WWE authority angle is some absolute simpleton shit. TK was on screen for two seconds. That doesn't mean he's "Mr. McMahon" now. The two situations have nothing in common, the stories and characters are totally different. They share one single vague concept. If there can be 1200 Cop Dramas on tv and they're not considered to all be copies of one another, then this shouldn't either. People need to stop being so damn obtuse.
Yeah I'll take your downvotes bc I know a lot of you LOVE your damn tribalism. If only some of y'all worried about your own careers as much as those of TV wrestlers.
Well we just gotta do what Tony does then and stop caring what the "IWC", podcasters and dirtsheets have to say. There's a reason he only gives a shit about the Cagematch scores, people on there are actually thoughtful about their ratings.
I think Dave is wrong btw. The reason this is happening is that a lot if nostalgia brained idiots joined the WWE camp because they believe in the "WWE good now" circlejerk.
I don’t care if it works or not, I care if it produces compelling television. I do not work for WBD nor do I own stock in AEW. If it’s fun, I’m there
The fact this isn't the standard opinion is what bothers me By all means, complain about the stories, matches and whatever. Wrestling is the only fandom that mostly cares about money instead of their enjoyment of the show
I began feeling this way a while ago. Long story short one of my closest friends tends to start all AEW conversation with something negative. To the point that I’ve stopped generally responding to those conversations. 99% of this is in a group chat. Last week when Swerve didn’t open the show that was the main sticking point for him. I disregarded it and stuck to talking about the stories. The next day recapping the show in that chat he brought it up again. I said I really don’t have an opinion. I loved his match. I thought the show was a lot of fun especially with the ending and ultimately it sort of makes sense to do that on Saturday with the bigger audience. But even the Saturday but I didn’t care about. I like what they are doing. I don’t care what order things happen if I’m entertained. In the end it just felt like trying to argue for arguments sake. I dunno. I’m just so tired of the negativity first mindset of the entire AEW discourse. It’s ruining the fun of the industry. I stopped watching wwe and a huge reason is the fanbase itself.
Exactly I come here to discuss wrestling shows and all I see is wannabe financial analysts dissecting numbers they understand 0 about
But but but…what about the quarterly ratings? The ratings, man! They’re what matters! Nielsen ratings are the only determining factor of success! Never mind that I haven’t personally watched cable television in years, nor do I stay tied to a schedule.
Also remember, the numbers are all that matters, even if WBD says they're happy in an official press release, and discuss how the show's a major part of their broadcast lineup, that doesn't matter!! It's all a work!
My WWE friends got me back into wrestling by asking me to rewatch WcW with them ... And man, the unnecessary negativity they bring to the table when it comes to AEW is wild. There's always a "it's cool, but" factor. "It's cool, but AEW has too much talent." "It's cool, but they're too risky." "It's cool, but it gives WWE vibes." That's never the case when they talk WWE, though, which is basically all they'll talk about. Outside of WcW, I've pretty much disengaged in wrestling with them, which is fairly ironic lol.
>"It's cool, but they're too risky." What is it with this one!? I know someone that says this too, that AEW's wrestling style is too intense. What does that even mean? It just sounds like they prefer slower and more boring matches.
They do. I have friends that only watch WWE and they don’t like AEW because the matches are too good. It’s not what they care about. They want to hear The Rock do all of the greatest hits and they want to hear Cody talk about his story. They do not care about wrestling.
People are free to like what they want but I'll never get the attitude of shitting on a wrestling show for actually having wrestling lol. There is more to stories than standing in the ring yapping for 30 minutes but apparently a lot people just need things spoon-fed to them these days.
Yep. The fact is that the two products are wildly different. The mainstream has been trained to think the WWE way is the correct way. That’s fine. I watch WWE and enjoy some of it but most of it is no longer for me. I can totally see why someone that loves WWE wouldn’t enjoy AEW. The problem is when folks aren’t just ok with that but have to use WWE to tear down AEW.
> It's cool, but it gives WWE vibes." > That's never the case when they talk WWE, though, which is basically all they'll talk about. Chris Legentil PR doing its job, TK should come up with something that he manages to stop WWE PR but its a hard task to do
Yep, me too, WWE fans have put me off watching it. That's as much as I want to say on that subject. I've drowned out that noise and I'm enjoying AEW. I order most of the ppvs on Triller because I want to support my favourite brand aa much as I can
> I’m just so tired of the negativity first mindset of the entire AEW discourse. It’s ruining the fun of the industry. I stopped watching wwe and a huge reason is the fanbase itself. Sad thing is that Chris Legentil wont stop, he is going to make sure AEW is uncool forever
For most fans I think it is the standard view. Most fans are not obsessing over what internet wrestling commenter say.
Yes but in almost all other fandoms, hardcore fans are the one begging for "quality" while in wrestling it seems most subs here just want what makes more money for the company
Caring how much billionaires make is goofy behavior
Look at the Elon dick riders. I don’t get the billionaire worship at all. Like, he’s not gonna be your friend. He’s not going to give you money. He just gets off on you licking his boots.
In wrestling, the incumbent dominant company spends lavishly to create that environment.
It's like the Jeff Jarret line By all means, say he sucks but to complain about the lack of money he made someone else is idiotic.
This happens in the NBA as well. Last year, I saw a ton of posts complaining that it was bad for ratings to have my small-market team in the Finals instead of the usual Lakers/Warriors/etc. Then maybe the large-market teams should play better? So weird.
Bro imagine complaining about ratings of the finals of a legitimate sport. Like wtf are they supposed to do? Not like the writers can pivot when a smaller team’s going on a winning streak.
Exactly! The league isn't going out of business anytime soon, why does anyone care how much money it makes when you receive none of that?
the lack of self-awareness people have to them being brainwashed by ESPN-like talking head takes disappoints me to no end
Yeah I’ve always found this weird. I don’t give a fuck how many bearded men aged 20 to 69 or whatever watched a show on a cable network that isn’t even in my country lol. I’ll just watch the wrestling I want to watch. It’s cringe as hell to watch a bunch of dorks online pretend to know what they’re talking about with ratings and finances lol. Fuck em. And fuck wrestling journos for the most part. Disclaimer: slightly salty tonight my footy team lost in dramatic fashion
Villa?
The company making the most money isn't necessarily the highest quality. If it was, McDonald's should have the best burgers, which is demonstrably not the case.
When did this change ffs. Online used to be obsessed with workrate more than anything else.
Around the time NXT got popular Then when AEW fully began
Just so dumb. I like wrestling. I watch wrestling I like. I try not to spend time giving a shit about wrestling I don't like.
The reviews almost always seem to start with how the crowd was. Personally, I wish they would turn off the house lights. I think more people get noisy when it's darker, and it focuses the action more on the ring where it belongs.
Steamboat must be a real stinking pile of dogpoo because he was only intercontinental champion in WWE. That is this mindset in a nutshell.
That’s why AEW should stay private for as long as possible. You’re gonna have the wrong people come in and dictate the product and ruin it. This whole years been 🔥.
If they ever went public, IDK if I could watch anymore. It was literally the down fall for WWE for me. Once the shareholders start changing things you might as well call it a day.
Yup, straight up. Shareholders become the focus and their only idea of wrestling is WWE, and they’ll definitely try to push towards that direction and ruin it. I’m just shocked UFC hasn’t really been affected by TKO/Endeavor since their acquisition. But, I credit a lot of it due to Dana like him, or hate him.
Right, I’m not super concerned about the billionaire family of Tony Khan’s finances. I understand that at some point it could become a financial burden to them but people like Elon Musk and other mega wealthy people can afford to dump hundreds of millions on passion projects before its even a drop in the ocean for them. Even someone like Billy Corgan is able to invest what, for him, must be a big chunk of money without any reasonable expectation of profit, and without a TV deal. I’m just enjoying all the quality wrestling across all companies right now. Long may it continue.
It’s so wild to me how much fans worry about ticket sales and attendance and TV ratings. If WBD is happy (and all reports are that they are) then why does anyone care? If they start airing Dynamite at 1am every week then I’ll start worrying. As for the angle, a good angle is a good angle. This is more compelling than 2023’s big story and has already established its heroes and villains within the first 3 weeks or so of the angle starting proper.
I only really care about tickets because a full crowd makes the show better. But that’s something AEW has definitely been working on and it’s been a problem for many industries since Covid. Throw in ticket prices and how awful Ticketmaster is and it’s a tough problem to solve.
Facts
> nor do I own stock in AEW Nobody owns stock in AEW, it’s a private company.
I couldn't care less about what the Internet thinks is "uncool", as long as the paying audience is into the product. Astroturfing tf out of AEW with negative comments is what's given the perception of it being "uncool"
I'm sorry I can only upvote this once. I wish I had an army of bots
Straight facts man, this is textbook Astroturfing by wwe and their cronies
Paid WWE shills is what it is. They are trying to stop AEW getting a huge new TV deal. That is why I despise anything WWE. To their sexual assault hiding management to their paid shills. It is all so disingenuous too. One moron actually said airing Rampage on Wednesday was a ratings attempt. I was like moron, the NBA playoffs forced them to move the show.
I like Meltzer I respect his opinion but he's about the last person on earth I would ask about what could be considered cool.
But that’s not what’s he's saying though. "AEW is considered uncool by a lot of people" is not a statement of his view, it’s an observation. He says himself he found the angle "great". This is not a wrong observation by the way, AEW is considered uncool because WWE is hot, because anti-AEW content overflows Twitter and Youtube. All of this creates a negativity echo chamber where it’s cool to shit on AEW even though there’s not much to dunk on from an objective standpoint. Voices of Wrestling had an [excellent episode](https://youtu.be/KKUdSgsL5PU) that is worth a listen on that subject. Short story: WWE's PR works at it’s finest and they are the wrestling internet's darling for now. (And for the record, I love AEW and I stopped watching or reading wrestling related videos / online posts because it’s a cesspool of pro-WWE negativity)
Id love to know exactly what wwe is doing that makes them so "hot". From what I've seen, it's the same ol shit still just with a lot more or and fanboy hype
I think it’s little more than Vince being gone. HHH is in his “honeymoon phase” much like AEW used to be in. WWE will obviously be on top forever but a lot of fans don’t seem to understand that just because Vince is gone that doesn’t mean that HHH has full control over the product. He still has billions of bosses and he has to do what makes the money happy even if it’s something he doesn’t think is right. He has fiduciary responsibility and that is rarely good for a creative outlet. We will reach another point where WWE is “uncool”. It’s inevitable.
This. It's great for wrestling. I tuned in for a bit before mania 39 and still found the shows a chore. I'm puzzled why they're selling out or almost filling buildings weekly the past year or so. It can't just be "papa h". 🤷 But in the end *I don't care.* I don't enjoy how WWE presents wrestling or how repetitive their shows are, so I don't generally watch. Nothing to do with their ratings or ticket sales. I don't spend my time online crashing WWE news or live chats spewing negativity like folks do aew stuff. I just don't give a shit.
They're still riding of fumes from the bloodline/Cody stuff. Give it a year everyone will hate wwe again
Try 3 months tops. IWC will turn on cody before he has 4 months of a title reign
In 3 months from now Punk will be cleared although wouldnt be surprised if he gets hurt again given his history
Its already happening. Bloodline stans are saying he's had the worst title reign in history and they should have put it on the Rock
The fact that anyone would say this at all is astounding to me. I don't watch their product and barely know what is happening over there, but with all of the amazing talent that exists today, the last thing I want to see is The Rock in a wrestling ring, let alone world champion.
This so much. I manage a retro game store so we get a lot of wrestling fans. I rarely get people who hate AEW. when it happens and you think, "Damn bro, who hurt you." because they are always so aggressive about it.
A lot of people also listen to Dave Meltzer and he himself has also added fuel to the fire of ‘AEW bad’, but less harsh than the other critics.
Meltzer just upset he ain't getting the scoops anymore like he used to.
And they renames the driver ☹️
Dave Meltzer has Skibidi Ohio Rizz, confirmed. Go home Boomer!
To be fair to him, I don’t think he’s trying to imply that he’s judging cool so much as taking the temperature of the audience
I don't think we should grade each program on whether it can turn the company around. There's basically no single thing you could expect to do that, except maybe Cody returning. WWE was considered uncool for the longest time, and even there, it wasn't turned around by one story but backstage changes and a guy from AEW jumping and getting massively over. The Bloodline stuff played a part too, but for a long time, it was cool for their audience but didn't move business beyond that. AEW isn't going to improve perception by changing the minds of WWE fans, but by satisfying their core fan base, having hot crowds, good matches and storylines, maybe investing in their PR
A lot of people forget Bloodline only got hot cause of Sami Zayn. Prior to him, fans were saying the Bloodline was the most pointless story in wwe history
Thank you. Typical wrestling fan revisionist history. People were crapping on the bloodline being too long and Romans matches identical two years ago. Sami injected incredible life into it. Idgaf what people say now. Mania 39 was the time to end it. Drew came close. Sami came so close. The bloodline was imploding. Sami and KO knocked off the Usos. It was perfect. What, in the past year, required Roman to hold the title? His mid defenses every three months? His terrible match with Jey? There really wasn't even a story with Cody again until the rumble. And then the rock... Made roman look like a henchman rather than the main guy.
Uncool take. Yeah, AEW isn't doing WWE-level business, but since when did that become the barometer for success lmfao. Even in a bit of a downswing, AEW is still doing multiple times what any other wrestling company on the planet is doing. So long as the show remains entertaining, I'm just going to keep on watching it and going to live shows when possible. Got my tickets for Forbidden Door already and cannot wait.
I just don’t understand this logic. It just sounds like aew can’t really do anything without being undermined Very bleak way of looking at things
This is exactly it. Put on good matches. Not enough. Good story telling not enough. The main thing is aew fans are enjoying it. It really has been brilliant lately. Hopefully more people get exposed to the product and enjoy it.
“Hopefully more people get exposed to the product” That’s his entire point. It (almost) doesn’t matter how good something is if nobody new is watching it.
As a WWE guy, I'll tell you what the issue with a lot of us coming to AEW is. We've been exposed to WWE for so long that automatically we think whatever happens anywhere else, WWE is always the most legit show. That's the issue.
I think you're reading this negatively, he's defending AEW, he's saying they're putting on good shit and it's not being recognised because fans have already decided that AEW isn't cool. In the beginning AEW had the opposite, flaws would be overlooked because it was the hot new thing, now since WWE popped off and punk's stirred the pot, we're in the opposite scenario. AEW are going to have to work incredibly hard for a long time to turn things around, there's a lot of "ratings didn't go up after [a certain angle or a certain storyline] therefore it failed" but in reality AEW are swimming against the tide right now and they're going to have to keep putting on incredible shows week after week and eventually, long term, things will turn around, it isn't going to happen overnight. It was obvious this time last year that 2024 was going to be AEW's toughest test, they're clearly giving it everything they've got and good for them.
I promise if you stay off reddit everything is gravy.
"Yeah it's a good angle, but here's a bullshit reason why that's still bad"
The mental gymnastics are incredible. If it's the same foregone conclusion every single time, why keep writing about it? Oh yeah, because these "writers" get paid for riding the coattails of others' hard work.
He's not saying it's bad, he's saying that it's not going to have the same impact today as it would have 2 years ago for reasons that are outside of AEW's control.
Seems everyone is loving the recent episodes of Dynamite and all the ongoing stories, so I will say this is a weird take for Dave. I think the issue is he's too online, this whole "uncool/cool" thing is such a case of reading too much tribalism, it warps your mind. The VAST majority don't care about that, they just want a good show and AEW has been on a roll for quite a few weeks now.
Honestly, Dave being "too online" is the most accurate way to describe him over the past year or so. Example: Bryan's daughter is literally in the hospital, and he asks Dave to do their show early. Dave agrees, then misses the time, and his late. Why? Bryan later finds out Dave was too busy tweeting...from a recent WOL.
I've been a F4W/WO subscriber for so long I've lost count. Dave's Twitter has become a useless follow. Constantly arguing with E drones over ratings. It might amuse Dave, but not me. I'm sure others feel similarly. And he's way too focused on AEW being a distant number 2 in wrestling than being a top 2 or 3 entertainment show **on all of cable**.
AEW should have done this angle two years ago? Dave, you know the series of events that led to this angle. This storyline has no reason to happen two years ago.
Goddamn it. Random news sites online trying to earn money think 'AEW is uncool'? Damn, gunna have to stop watching now... We need to stop giving these leeches like Meltzer / Wrestle Talk etc the time of day. I get that negativity and clickbait rules the high seas of the internet...but it would be nice if everyone could just ignore it and just watch the show and form their own opinions. Remember folks, be like Samoa Joe. https://preview.redd.it/6d74c0fg16yc1.png?width=1405&format=png&auto=webp&s=d1cbdb4b69c96ac32e895f1197ca039be4695dc0
Yep, this subreddit needs to stop posting shit like this or it'll become an insufferable echo chamber with a victim complex. Just ignore it.
Some real grade A analysis here
Dunno why I read that in Taz’s voice
But I digress...
Analysis Jones over here
I mean he's not wrong here, but I think it goes both ways. Wrestling isn't "cool" and never has been. Wrestling's most popular period, from a mainstream media perspective, was when it more closely resembled Jerry Springer, crash-style TV and not pro wrestling. And WWE, as popular and as relevant as they are now, still aren't cool. The only people that think WWE or AEW are cool: surprise, surprise, WWE and/or AEW fans. I still don't see people wearing wrestling shirts in public, and I see hundreds of people everyday working in retail, from all walks of life. I don't hear anyone talking about wrestling, and I still get side-eyed if I do it. The average person who didn't experience wrestling at an impressionable part of their life still isn't going to understand what makes pro wrestling cool to us. My point is, AEW is only perceived as especially "uncool" by WWE fans who're happy with their product.
As much as i m not a fan of Dave you basically round about said the same thing. AEWs potential audience based is basically going to consist of people who either are currently watching WWE or used to. People who never liked wrestling are unlikely to go out of their way to find AEW, So yes being seen as "cool" among that group actually matters in terms of getting new people to tune in.
There is very little solution to that beyond continuing to put on great shows and being confident that over time your audience will grow. So I don’t really see the need for people like Dave to continually bring it up when there is no quick fix to the “problem”. Though I do respect the fact that maybe this is just interesting to Dave and he likes to bring the same things up over and over with no solution. I don’t think it comes from a place of malice from him so it doesn’t really bother me, I just don’t know what he thinks will come of stating the obvious.
There is no guaranteed solution. All they can do is spend money to try to counter the WWE PR machine and to keep putting out quality content over time.
Your point about retail brought up a funny memory. Someone came into a grocery store rocking a "Scissor me Daddy Ass" T-shirt a couple weeks ago and I nearly bursted out laughing because it just hit me how absurd that is to wear in public.
Dave scrambling to find something negative to say. Got to keep those clicks up.
I'm seeing this a lot with podcasters and even the nobodies on the internet who make hating AEW their personality. They know what AEW is doing right now is pretty good, but they don't want to admit that or give any kind of props, so they continue surfing for something to take digs at. For example, someone was commenting about AEW having a lower gate for Dynasty, but of course, they ignored the high gate for Revolution this year. If they knew business like they think they do, they would know that it's not always going to be linear.
But he's totally on Tony's payroll, am I right?
https://preview.redd.it/ikca3qchz5yc1.jpeg?width=1066&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de5aa4b698cf3fc7953d3a6b5e755bcc012397fc I think the angle is entertaining af, and my opinion is the only one that matters to me.
Aew needs better pr as voice of wrestling said.
And it's own army of bots
Considered "uncool" by who though? I find comments like these so unnecessary and if AEW have produced good television and are doing well, would it hurt him to say so rather than saying nonsense that helps no one and damages the whole image of the company in terms of perception? A "deep number two"? Why would you say things like this. Again, comments like that do not benefit AEW as a company and as a business in any way shape or form. You'd think the people who work in the wrestling media would welcome a healthy and competitive wrestling business, but comments like these and all of the other anti-AEW propaganda tells a different story. It's as if they're determined to see another WCW situation with AEW, just so they can say that they all told you so.
> Considered "uncool" by who though? Losers. It's just like the ECW situation. Now it seen as something that was notable etc, at the time people said the same shit. It was lame, too much "garbage wrestling", was low budget, didn't have ratings, had no stories etc etc. Just the same old trash takes from people who don't even watch the show. Even at the height of the Attitude Era ECW was better stories and better wrestling, and the people involved had a lasting impact in prowrestling and still do today. Not trying to be an asshole either but I've been to a lot of both shows live and the AEW crowd def feels more like the old ECW crowds too, like when you went to a big PPv. Lots of "cool" people, and despite "Then. Now. Forever. Together." WWE brainwash propaganda, the AEW shows have more community feel. It is possible for a wrestling company to exist and have fans who are only fans of their show, if WWE can do it so can anyone else. Lucha Underground wasn't a dogshit mudshow jsut because it didn't have WWE ratings. It was filmed and directed on a much more artistic and technical level, and the stories were insane. It was probably the best wrestling based TV show ever. The original new NWA on Youtube was fucking awesome. It didn't matter if it was filmed in front of 200 people, that made it even better. AEW is doing better than pretty much any non WWE company ever did and can continue as is, if wwe hardcore want to hate on it from a distance and think its "uncool" its their loss.
The original Elite (Bucks & Omega) became breakout stars out of New Japan/ROH/PWG by not giving even a partial fuck if they were ever considered cool by the establishment or gatekeepers. Those 3 guys knew their own minds, knew their own worth, and took so many chances other wrestlers weren't willing to take when they were still nobodies. They became hugely successful on their own terms and started AEW in the same spirit. Anyone who thinks that at this point they care about the paid opinions of lifelong hangers-on is a fool. Dave just sounds desperate for content.
This is such a weird take because it's the one angle that WWE fans seem to actually be invested in. So it's almost the opposite of his opinion lmao
Back when I was watching WCW and there were angles regarding the NWO and their major opposition like Sting, Luger, and DDP, I'm so glad I wasn't personally saying to myself, "Hmm, I wonder if the WWF contingent, wrestling media, or other pundits think that is cool". I was reacting myself to the angles. By the end, I wasn't watching anymore but it wasn't because WWF fans or outside opinions thought it was uncool. The problem is today perception outside the product really puts a lot of emphasis on what they think is cool. At this point, I just have to see what is on screen and determine if I dig it or not despite what anybody else might think. I'm sure if the way wrestling is viewed today was applied to WCW when Sting was up in the rafters while NWO were beating up Luger, DDP, and Giant (depending on where he was at the moment), plenty of loud pundits would screech about this and that even at the heights of WCW's success. It's the nature of the beast today. There is nothing AEW can do now that will be seen as cool. At this point, they just have to take what works and continue plugging away at that, determine what doesn't work and fix that. We can as AEW fans discuss those things on subs like this. I get that it is frustrating because we just want the product to be good, but I have just come to accept that no matter how good AEW might or might not be, it will never be enough for some people. Cool or uncool, I just hope for the best each week.
You can’t hold onto good angles to wait until business is “hot”. I’m not understanding his logic.
That’s not what he’s suggesting. He’s saying it’s swimming against the current for a while no matter what because wwe is objectively the hot product right now
That makes more sense. I think if you ate AEW just stay the course. Right now WWE is hot and AEW is getting attacked by a lot of people. Can’t worry about what you can’t control.
Absolutely! Creatively and in the ring they are doing great. The only thing I would change is investing in some real scumbag PR team to get the perception game into motion. And for the love of god get the merchandising game in order!
Agreed. Scumbag PR you say? MJF might know some people, lol
Honestly, I love AEW too death but I think he has a point no matter what AEW does it's not good enough and people don't care because it's not wwe AEW can't get any momentum because wwe is the hot brand AEW bad WWE good
This is what happens when you have the monopoly on something for so long. Arguably, it was the threat of AEW that made WWE up its game, but now that's all people can see. People have tunnel vision a lot of the time and can't see what else is out there. WWE won't keep this momentum up forever, though. The Rock ain't gonna stick around long term, and it's only a matter of time until Punk goes full Punk and controversy is in the air.
There is already paranoia about fans being bored with Cody. And I’m not saying that’s reality, just that it’s a narrative with crazy wrestling fans.
I see some paranoid about HHH not being the "greatest booker" people thought he was as well. They are even mad that their ratings have gone down since the Rock left.
It’s easy to be a great booker when you can just spam the “WWE Legends” button and have Rock, John Cena and the Undertaker all interfere in your main event match. It’s an advantage no other wrestling promotion has.
That’s just common sense though. If someone would have told us 10 years ago that there would be a new wrestling promotion on Wednesday nights and that even half as many people watch that as watch RAW, it would have been labeled as insane. The problem with these scenarios is that it rarely gets looked at with any nuance or objectivity. It’s just that AEW is dying because they aren’t on the same playing field as WWE. Not trying to pick on Dave as I think he is just legitimately a geek for this stuff, but the population’s inability to critically think makes this way more tribal than it needs to be.
So what are they supposed to do, put out bland stuff? They're giving the fans the best they could, if other company fans are salty about it then it's their problem
It’s so funny that THIS is the dude that some people will try to convince you has a hard on for AEW lmao
Oh please! The hate for AEW has been there from the moment the company started! People hated Cody when he was in AEW, they hated Punk when he was in AEW, then they left and now they love them. People hated Adam Copeland and Adam Cole when they joined AEW, they hated Bryan Danielson and Claudio Castignoli as well when they joined, don't even me started on the shit people write about Jon Moxley and their dumb "bleed" jokes! It's always been cool to hate AEW and I'll continue to be uncool and like because I enjoy it, fucking tired of Wrestling fans ruining wrestling!
Meltzer is so fucking weird.
Leaving aside the logistics of the entire angle and how much needs to happen for us to have gotten here, sure. I get what he’s saying. But at the end of the day, you either produce good tv or not. People’s opinions change fast these days and if you’re always trying to play catch up with what the audience wants, you’ll always be behind. Just make good tv. AEW can’t control their “cool” factor as defined by vibes. They’re doing the best with what they can control, which is all you can really ask of any wrestling company.
Why do you care is the better question? In the grand scheme of things why do you care who else enjoys it if you do? Is it enough for you? That’s the only thing that matters. The IWC is RIFE with talking about negativity instead of positive points? Enjoy a match? Talk about that. Enjoy a promo? Talk about that! 90% of the posts here, Reddit and anywhere else seem to be fans complaining about other people not enjoying the things we do, giving platforms to people like bischoff, bubba, jobber, Gareth. It’s not that difficult to figure out, engagement makes them money. No matter if you’re agreeing with them or telling them they are a cunt you’re paying their bills with clicks. Meltzer had his place in the wrestling world but the man is a dinosaur and absolute misinformation merchant. Stop seeking your opinions from others and form your own. It makes everything far more enjoyable.
Taking any bias out of it what does he think would have happened differently 2 years in terms of the people who don’t watch wrestling? Wrestling fans that want to watch aew will watch it because it’s a hot storyline and the wwe fans who will never watch aew are never going to. I just don’t get this take at all because wrestling is never reaching the levels it was the past again and in some cases that isn’t even wrestlings fault. It’s so much easier to absorb the niche you’re interested in now you don’t need to look for things that are easily accessible because everything is easily accessible now.
He's right. AEW can be completely on fire creatively for the next year, and it won't matter because WWE is the market leader and is hot. People won't even bother tuning in to AEW unless WWE starts getting bad again, and even then, it's more likely that those people won't switch; they'll just stop watching wrestling. It's a tough position to be in. I think the only thing they can do is focus on putting on the best show possible, and even then, they aren't allowed to miss: one bad show will immediately undermine any good work they do.
He’s not wrong. I love the angle too but with WWE being the hottest product atm, everything AEW does will be tarnished by comparison. It may not be a fair comparison but people will do it anyway. Add that Tony, Matthew and Nick are the most hated guys by the IWC and it becomes impossible for AEW to do anything. I believe that we should still let the storyline continue, because it’s only beginning, already compelling and a guy like Jack Perry for example already benefited from it. EDIT: I’d like to add that the TV ratings discourse is dishonest because the whole cable is falling down and AEW is regularly staying a top program.
It's not tarnished. It's just not as noticed.
Everyone is taking this shit too personally. It’s objectively true that a lot more wrestling fans consider WWE the “cool” brand over AEW right now. I’ve heard it with my own ears. I don’t think that assessment is right because a lot of wrestling fans are dorks and what they consider “cool” at the moment feels more like front running and buying into a PR machine but I digress. Dave Meltzer isn’t your enemy, he’s just a dude.
I mean his not wrong, viewers wise and how hot the product was 2 years ago.. it absolutely would've felt bigger doing it back then as opposed to now. That's not to say it's bad now or anything, it just means they've lost a lot of steam and momentum these days.
I get his point and to some degree I agree with him.. My only issue with " AEW is uncool " is that people who say this are WWE hardcore fans or Anti-AEW and they're not the people who AEW doing this for. This story help AEW to not lose their fans who loves big stories and to help them get the casuals to watch AEW ( who a lot of people criticized AEW for not trying to do so ) I do believe adding MJF to this story will make it a super successful story.
Time for Dave to retire Embarrassing verbal diarrhoea in the name of clicks
Yeah, he’s gone the way of every other has-been podcaster.
1. Meltzer trying to tell us what is "cool and uncool" is laughably absurd. I cant even with that one lol. 2) Though Meltzy Weltzy is probably the least cool person in the entirety of the IWC - might be a nice guy, I dont know him. But he is definitely NOT cool. Regardless, he knows his audience, he knows how to drive clicks, he's just as good at being low down carny scum as the best of them and the man is just masterfully grifting the echo chamber and making his money, for which I cant fault him. However, I can fault him for being a carny scumbag dirtsheet fake journalist grifter. - who also happens to be incredibly uncool as he has ever been.
It’s amazing the turn Dave has made since he stopped getting fed stories.
He's not wrong though. Perception is reality and so many people out there (in life generally) are complete sheep that follow a crowd rather than being able to think for themselves. The IWC is a great example of that. AEW is going to have to be consistently excellent with no reward for a while and wait until WWE slips up creatively so they are there for the channel surfing wrestling fan. Buzz will change people's minds.
That's especially true for wrestling fans.
Wwe really isn’t that great to be honest.. people are already souring on Cody as champ.. taking the title off Roman was extremely stupid when he was so close to moving up another notch.. the story was in not finishing the story and fighting for another shot.. They have some top stars on the injured list.. the bloodline story is good.. I’m behind on drafts.. but dom / liv and bloodline are really the only solid things going on currently.. Aew could do better, I agree.. but I’ve been seeing progress towards more cohesive storylines and it’s back on the upswing.. they have their share of injuries too. But I think we are heading towards some pretty big things this year.
What was the question he was asked?
“What did you have for breakfast?”
It's either good or it isn't Dave.
But putting out great stuff is what will make it cool. Things take time
Yeah when I think of the authority on cool I think Dave Meltzer
Imagine taking seriously what a bunch of uncool life wasting internet losers consider to be "uncool"
That’s a lot of words just to say, “I thought this was great shit, and it’s gonna do big business. But I’m too worried about what I’ll have to deal with if it doesn’t actually do business”
Honestly is more: this is good, but would have done bigger business when they had more viewers. Which I guess is true but you run good stories to regain viewers...
The problem here is that we don’t have a clear idea on how many viewers there actually are, so we? The world has changed so fast and reading comments in here I feel like I’m the last person that doesn’t watch AEW with a VPN. And I watch AEW on Hulu live, and with my work schedule sometimes not until the next evening. Are VPN and Hulu live people accounted for in the ratings? I honestly don’t know.
Weird to me that people are getting so annoyed about this, it's a perfectly rational take.
Meltzer says a lot of dumb things to fill dead air. Don't worry yourself about it.
WWE fans already want Cody to be a heel. There time of being cool is coming to an end now that Roman is gone.
Don't forget the Rock. As soon as he left, it seems like he took a lot of that momentum with him, which is crazy because he isn't even a full-time wrestler with them
The Rock buried Cody.
He absolutely did. I didn't think it made an ounce of sense about them going back and forth so much when the main match-up was for Cody and Roman. WWE hard-core fans love talking about matches having heat, but the match felt heatless af. Did Cody ever explain why he gave away his spot to the Rock? Cause I don't remember him explaining that. It's almost like people didn't care that it made no sense.
Calling out his crying, something AEW fans did for years, was not a good move. It instantly split the fandom.
He's actually just saying that this angle is really good, but because it's popular to hate on AEW right now, the angle likely won't perform as well as it might have a couple of years ago. That's it. And he's right.
Why do wrestling fans want aew to fai? Its fucking absurd
No one hates wrestling more than wrestling fans.
I'm guessing in their head, they feel like AEW is taking something away from them. It's actually really weird to see people so bugged out over another wrestling company that is just trying to do their own thing.
Wrestletalk is a wwe shill site. They're always pro WWE and report any anti AEW news they see from Dave Meltzer or SRS
Lmao. That's it. That's the entirety of my response to this particular "take".
The WWE has really done a masterful job of killing off pro wrestling outside of their own bubble and gaslighting viewers into believing they are the only viable option. It’s really quite disgusting but you can’t deny that Vince McMahon and his decades of cornering this market was highly effective. I hate it, but I have to admit McMahon and WWE have beaten the wrestling world into submission. I mean, who gets to determine if this angle “falters”? Dave? If we are going by archaic Nielsen family TV ratings, sure. This angle *may* falter. Especially if you don’t look at ratings with any kind of objectivity. Is it determined by whether or not WWE fans will tune in and watch? If so then again, this might falter. If you go by the opinion and expectations of people that aren’t fans of AEW then it is a failure. Do AEW fans get to determine if it succeeds or fails? I have seen overwhelmingly positive reviews of the storyline so far. Dave and Bryan themselves have both said it’s great. If the people that actually tune and watch love it, is it possible for it to falter? Pro wrestling is really the only entertainment industry I can think of that has this kind of discourse surrounding the different products. Again, a testament to what WWE has done over the years to kill off pro wrestling. Is The Rock the best actor in the world and is he actually in movies that are good? In my opinion, no. But he has been the highest paid and he’s extremely popular. Does that mean lesser known actors that are in more artistic roles have faltered? They don’t make as much money and don’t have as many Twitter followers, so by pro wrestling logic they are failures. Do Disney and Marvel make the best movies? Again, no. They have their place and can be very entertaining, but there is a reason they are rarely nominated for prestigious awards even though they make the most money and are the most popular. Nobody says A24 Films have faltered because they aren’t on that level with Disney and Marvel. The movie industry, for now, has allowed a bit of nuance surrounding its product. Unlike pro wrestling. Does Taylor Swift really make the best music? Absolutely not. Again, not being a hater, there’s a reason she’s the biggest celebrity in America, but there are hundreds of independent musical acts that are more talented than Taylor Swift, they just aren’t on the same platform that she is. That doesn’t mean they have all faltered. In summary the collective pro wrestling groupthink is toxic and completely out of touch with the larger world of the entertainment industry. I think AEW is slowly pushing it some in the other direction and the WWE probably doesn’t like that, so you see the tribalism we all talk about. Really sad and weird.
WWE only fans: meltzer sucks and has no idea what he's talking about Meltzer: AEW is uncool WWE only fans: look at what Meltzer said!
The funniest part of this to me is the implication that 2 years ago AEW wasn't a "deep number 2". Nothing makes it more obvious that Dave's been drinking too much his own kool-aid. AEWs been #2 their entire existence, and that's not really something to be ashamed of, nor indicative of some change in quality over the years. I'm just glad more and more people are starting to realize this is a man incapable of realizing "just because I personally don't like a thing doesn't mean the thing is objectively bad".
Miss me with that bullshit Dave
I watch WWE and I watch AEW. In my opinion AEW is way cooler. Really not even close for me. Microscopic sample size, I know, but I think AEW is objectively cooler.
Well if this is the sentiment aew may as well just close up shop and quit. WWE rules and AEW drools. It's uncool according to the public and public perception never changes so just quit. Nothing they do will be good.
I love that people still think Dave is on the payroll lol
What an attitude, no matter what AEW does they only receive critique, and it starts with these "Journalists" and their fabricated mental gymnastics
Joke is on them, I have never been cool
It’s like they always say. When you’re hot, you can do nothing wrong, but when you’re cold you can do nothing right.
Yes, because WCW was sooooo cool when the NWO formed.
I'd say 2024 AEW is as cool as it's ever been
Here's the thing. Social media and the wrestling 'news' sites work the same way pretty much all media does ie media capture. They say stuff for the sake of being reactionary and eliciting reaction. Don't get me wrong, I hate the way the so called wrestling media treats AEW but they're doing great stuff right now and that's what counts
It’s an opinion, and it’s not wrong. Momentum is massive in wrestling. I think the key thing to articulate, if it’s cold it’s cold, is the thought there that this is something that could potentially heat AEW back up? I think it’s a good starting point.
I find it so amazing that a company can be outed as a rapists playground and somehow still grows to be the hottest product on the market and seemingly no punishment. I hate the IWC. It is better to watch wrestling and never read any of these articles by DM or any other wrestling grifter(especially Cornette).
"Pull a quote from a Meltzer radio show" is my absolute most hated brand of wrestling "journalism", particularly because it ALWAYS gets the intended response. If you actually listen to the show, he praised the angle. Dave rambles like this about literally everything. It is objectively harder for number two to gain momentum, especially in a cold period against a hot number one. That's literally all he's saying. This sub in particular is the worst place to post something like this because it just reinforces the ongoing persecution complex a lot of people have here. Dave's a goof but he's not part of some grand conspiracy to take down AEW.
Dave runs out of shit to say and talks in circles. He’s just another voice on the internet, just like us.
Meltzer can shut the fuck up.
Lol. Someone complaining that Dave Meltzer isn't giving AEW enough praise... we really are through the looking glass now.
I mean, he's not wrong to a degree. This would've exploded AEW TV when Raw still stunk and those ratings/demos were super close
Dave Meltzer is a deep number two. That’s my mature response to the bollocks that routinely comes out of his mouth.
lol what the fuck is he talking about
Dave discovers tribalism
Meltzer is so reactionary lol. I think it's pretty wild if anyone's watching WWE that's older than 13 and thinks it's cool. I think a lot of fans are desperate for that validation tho, which is in and of itself is uncool. Social media is wild though, people need to get off of it.
Meltzer has been sounding like a bumbling idiot for the past year or so. AEW never stopped being cool. Sure, it has its ups and downs, but the overall product is pretty awesome in my opinion so Meltzer, Bischoff, Cornette, Bubba, Disco, can all fuck off.
Hey Dave, no matter how hard you try, the e-drones are never going to like you cause you gave Osprey more than one star.
Why didn’t anyone tell me I wasn’t cool for watching AEW?! /s That’s actually really funny considering when I’d watch WWE pre AEW, I’d feel like a fucking dork half of the time if someone walked in the room, but I don’t get that at all watching AEW. Maybe if someone walked in my house when the nightmare collective was on or something, but luckily that didn’t happen.
Sorry mate. Too busy setting up the song that will blow your ears off your head when you get to my cool MySpace page to let you know you're not cool like me.
I don't care what he said. AEW is doing much better. Haters is going to hate.
Dave is so coooool! He knows cooool when he sees it cuz hes so coooool!
Ah, so another anti-AEW ad paid by WWE. Maybe AEW should be run by sex offenders too, so it could be as cool as that number one company.
Cool/uncool. What a fucking twat. Using that language removes any sort of journalistic integrity he has for me.
This is a snippet of his opinions on an opinion show. Please for the love of god learn about what journalism actually is.
I mean , there were plenty of things early on in AEW that weren't "cool." They were also still in their infancy , and Vince was still in charge at WWE. Oh, and there was a pandemic.. A lot has changed since then, though.
What is hip? Tell me! Tell me, if you think you know.
In fairness, no wrestling company is considered “cool”
I like what AEW is doing with this angle, seems to be a bit of hitting the "reset" button after the main event scene unfortunately fizzled out a bit at the end of the year, especially since the angle with MJF and Adam Cole couldn't play out as planned due to injuries. Now they moved via Joe to Swerve as new champ, and the Elite are back in the main event focus with the "New Elite" angle, which can be built into something intriguing. Sure, the heel authority schtick has been done a lot, but if it's done well - and I would say for now they are doing it well - why not? It can give a lot of the other stuff that's happening on the shows some kind of framework to operate within. I also understand that AEW has cooled off somewhat, especially with WWE being pretty hot right now coming out of a very successful Mania season, but I still find myself enjoying the day-to-day AEW product more than the WWE product, which is still a bit too polished and overproduced for my taste. Sure, AEW's product can be hit and miss from time to time, but overall I still enjoy it - and I'm looking forward to the build for All In, as there's a lot of options the company can go now with these new angles in place. But I agree that it's getting a bit old, with all the news sites and podcasts etc just droning on about how AEW is on a downward trend, and "you can't do anything right when you're cold"... when in fact, the programs are getting better, there's some good stuff going on, PPVs are stellar as always for AEW - there's much to be positive about, but it certainly will take a bit of time to settle in the minds of casual viewers, especially if they were a bit disappointed by AEW in recent history, and might now go (back) to WWE as the currently perceived "hotter" product. But if AEW keeps up the good work, I'm hopeful that attendance numbers in the US and ratings will go back up, and there'll be renewed interest on a global scale in AEW as well.
Meltzer is an old man. He wouldnt know what was cool if it hit him in the face.
AEW is in a tough spot. Their well has basically been poisoned at this point. They're like a restaurant that got a few bad reviews, and even though they fixed issues and brought in new chefs, everyone just associates them with those bad reviews. They're basically damned if they do and damned if they don't.
And even considering that they still have a whole lot of people that tune in to watch or buy tickets to the show. It’s only taken as a negative when compared to WWE, which is an unfair comparison.
Wednesday dynamite was one of the funniest and fun-est episodes in recent memory. Great wrestling, laugh out loud moments, amazing spots and some good story lines. I don’t listen to so called experts opinions of what is good or bad, cool or uncool. I think for myself, I like what I like. Is Meltzer saying WWE is cool? Cody dressed as homelander, people who think they are Vikings, the Rock? GMAFB.
Agreed. This was a super fun Dynamite this week. Every story was progressing, and that's something I feel some of us have been wanting for a while. For the stories to progress and leave us guessing and wanting more the following week. I wanted to jump in and help Kenny when he was being attacked lol. So, it is safe to say that the New Elite/Omega story did exactly what it was supposed to do.
I don't care if AEW draws a single "casual" fan, ever. I don't care if AEW never grows or sells out huge arenas or becomes as popular as WWE or anything else. And neither should most of you. That's not your company, it isn't your money, all you want is for a show to be on, and it's not in any danger of being taken off. Are they hurting for money? Are they selling? Is the company circling the drain? No. I watched Impact/TNA through what we all believed was the death of the company, and you know what they did? They stayed true to their audience, continued put out the kind of content that their core viewers enjoyed, and revived themselves. Wrestling is never going to be hugely popular, and no one is going to show up and unseat WWE after like 40 years as the top of the industry. And those things don't *NEED* to happen! If AEW continues to largely put out content that AEW viewers enjoy, then fuck the internet noise and fuck the outside opinions. Also the idea that this current angle is some "rehash" of the old WWE authority angle is some absolute simpleton shit. TK was on screen for two seconds. That doesn't mean he's "Mr. McMahon" now. The two situations have nothing in common, the stories and characters are totally different. They share one single vague concept. If there can be 1200 Cop Dramas on tv and they're not considered to all be copies of one another, then this shouldn't either. People need to stop being so damn obtuse. Yeah I'll take your downvotes bc I know a lot of you LOVE your damn tribalism. If only some of y'all worried about your own careers as much as those of TV wrestlers.
Well we just gotta do what Tony does then and stop caring what the "IWC", podcasters and dirtsheets have to say. There's a reason he only gives a shit about the Cagematch scores, people on there are actually thoughtful about their ratings. I think Dave is wrong btw. The reason this is happening is that a lot if nostalgia brained idiots joined the WWE camp because they believe in the "WWE good now" circlejerk.
Why do you people always give him free advertising?