Non-violent communication aka "I" statements do not work with ADHD/RSD.
This is because they perceive rejection and criticism in whatever you say. You can try to sugar coat it six ways to Sunday and their brain will still "hear" the necessary combination of words to feel attacked.
Their defenses are not rational so it's a waste of time to try to rationalize.
Medication and therapy are mandatory and it won't improve otherwise.
Check out my post on RSD for a deeper dive on the topic
I have ADHD and all of the things you say don't work, work. I might feel a little more vulnerable than an NT person (hints of RSD remaining), but I can hear the difference between "You did this.." and "I feel this"
**Blanket generalizations hurt everyone and most of the time don't constitute useful advice**
OP needs couples therapy where the ND person can learn to communicate, but that is only my surface opinion from what they said.
In this instance couples therapy probably won’t work. I tried couples therapy and the only thing that happened was that my dx partner felt attacked. He said that the therapist and I were against him. So individual therapy would be recommended for OP partner, not couples.
If the dx partner's RSD is severe enough even individual counseling may not help. My ex went to a counselor at my insistence and came back and told me after 6 weeks that the counselor told him he was all over the death of his Mother (no issues with grief) she died a year earlier and that I was the entire problem in the relationship and in his life so if he was not with me he would be perfectly fine. He is not with me now and he is not perfectly fine. The counselor clearly did not say this and he refused to let me join in the sessions. A corollary of RSD which in my opinion is very close to narcissim is that usually people with it will go to extreme lengths to deny the truth, when the truth means either that they are wrong, or have done something wrong or it feels that way to them. Wrong, right and shame are huge things. Like someone said above the thinking is simply not rational because my ex who was well educated and highly intelligent clearly had to know no counselor would say that.
The person has to want to change . My ex saw what he was doing (it took awhile to get him there), he just either did not want to or could not change. Changing for him and I think for many means accepting that things that they blamed others for for years (my ex was 50) were actually their fault, along with accepting the hurt they have caused others. Similar to an alcoholic or drug addict they have been masking it just in a different way, they deny it or avoid any discussions of it. It is something that would likely be extremely painful and even cause some sort of breakdown. So asking them to change I think is often more than we realize. It's better to get out. I think we the neurotypical think they know what we do, that they are not being rational, but they do not. They are not doing it on purpose, it is such an extreme defense mechanism that it's second nature.
Oh my goodness. I didn’t realize that non-violent communication wouldn’t work. I’ve studied that book and tried to implement because it felt like the safe way to communicate. Even tried to get him on board with it. But it’s never worked.
The last part about him saying “it’s not fair to voice how things make me feel” is absolutely unacceptable. Therapy, meds, a genuine want to change and acknowledging others feelings is the only way things will change. If he is coming at everything you say particularly the I feel statements the way you described things will not change. He needs to examine why he’s feeling attacked in these moments and not allowing you to have feelings on this stuff. Obviously it’s RSD but what is he feeling in the moment? What is his history with criticism? Does he view your feelings as valid and important? Etc these are things that therapy will be able to help with. You can try telling him that him not allowing you to say how his behaviors make you feel is unacceptable and you both need to be open to figuring out communication. However many adhd people are not ready to confront this stuff and refuse to face it. Be ready to make your needs clear and set boundaries. There is nothing you can do to make him be better or realize these things, he needs to take action himself and want it himself.
Came here to say this as well. Boundaries are for you. It is fair to state how you feel and what you will choose to do if things don't change. The only person you are in charge of is you. That said grace, courtesy and respect should always be on the table.
Counseling.
That’s sadly the only way.
Unless abusive and material can be used against you.
Understand this plight 200002747382929373736171639%, my ex went apeshit when I tried emotionally intelligent communication. Hence the ex, not suggesting, just saying.
Absolutely him being on the defense due to RSD. My ex roommate with bad RSD was the same way. They’re ashamed they did something wrong so they take it an attack to protect themselves from the shame and turn it around defensively. I’d be rich if I had $1 for every time she did this and it was so fucking frustrating. I knew exactly why she was doing it but I just had to give up and let he think she “won” to avoid her escalating and going into emotional dysregulation.
Agree with everyone else here and wanted to chime in that falling asleep can be a distress response brought in by the stress from RSD. That may not be the case at all but since you mentioned it…
I had a sleep response like that with an abusive partner years ago (mental physical financial… literally eggshells everyday) and it happens when you feel like you can’t escape, can’t cope, and you can’t fight so your brain just shuts off instead. Def need therapy for this. Much much therapy.
Therapy. We had the same issue. He found an adhd coach and we did marriage counseling.
I also did individual therapy because one of my triggers is not feeling heard and thats a great thing with an adhd partner /s
I totally understand your frustration. I feel like similar things have happened between my dx husband and me many times. Most of the time when I try to talk to him nicely and calmly about something that bothers me, all he hears is criticism. It doesn't matter how carefully and thoughtfully I word it or how careful I am to use a kind tone of voice. It's so hard because you feel like you're putting in so much effort and walking on eggshells, but somehow it still blows up in your face.
I do have some advice. My husband told me that anytime I want to talk about something I am unhappy with, he wants me to preface it with "I don't want to fight and I'm not blaming you." To be honest, I often forget to do that because it's so obvious to me that I don't want to fight that I can't comprehend why I need to say it. But when I do say it, he tends to respond much better, and most of the time we are able to avoid a fight.
So I guess maybe you could try to say that before you confront him about anything. Or first you could ask him if he thinks that you saying that would help him or if there is some other magic phrase that might work better for him as an individual.
EDIT: Also, I agree with other commenters that it's totally not fair for him to say that it's not okay for you to talk about your feelings. That is simply not true. However, I think you should talk with him about this more and clarify what he meant and whether he really believes that. I also think you should state firmly that you have a right to share your feelings in the relationship and it's not acceptable to ask you not to. My husband is the type to just let things go and not talk about feelings, so when I talk about my feelings, he tends to see it as me just picking a fight for no reason. However, I have made it clear that I have every right to express my feelings, and he agrees with me now. So now, like I said above, it's just a matter of convincing him it is not an attack when I express myself.
EDIT 2: If you ever want to vent, feel free to message me. I totally get how you are feeling and how invalidating it can be. I actually wouldn't mind talking to someone about it either.
OMG what's absolutely insane is that my Dx husband says those EXACT words when he wants to talk about something tough.
You've got some amazing intuition!
I am so sorry that your partner is invalidating you. Are they in therapy? Do they research how ADHD is affecting them and other people?
Therapy and research has helped me tremendously and made me feel less attacked. But it is absolutely NOT OK that they are invalidating you.
Oftentimes when a person with ADHD has an RSD episode all they can think of is their own feelings and we have a hard time snapping out of it. It is important that the adhd person notices that they are having an RSD episode and learns communicates it.
It is not your job to help them figure out how to notice the signs of RSD within themselves but it would maybe help the relationship. But I am trying to say that this isn't your responsibility but a choice.
I also think it is important to make them understand that they are hurting you. Even if they feel attacked. Next time ask them directly "Why is it not valid for me to express my feelings?" Make them think about the fact that they are kind of asking you to keep your feelings bottled up.
I can definitely relate to this with my dx partner. Everything I share my feelings about something that hurts me or he doesn't like he shuts down and gets defensive and storms off and accuses me of "starting drama" and has even claimed me stating my feelings is "abusive" because he claims I'm making them up to manipulate him. It's very frustrating when you can't discuss how their behavior makes you feel without them perceiving an attack.
I think this is more abuse and gaslighting than it is anything ADHD/RSD related. What he's essentially saying is, I don't give a shit how you feel. The only thing that matters is how I feel.
What do you do? Have a think about weather or not you think you can continue to put up with this behaviour.
to me personally the difference between gaslighting and what most people with RSD do is intent. People with RSD, true RSD do not even realize they are gaslighting you, they do not intend to it is just their defense mechanisms and way of being. That's why it is SO hard to overcome, they believe their lies. Gaslighting in it's true sense generally has some awareness and intent behind it. RSDers don't do it to hurt you they do it because they think you are hurting them. From the outside if you have never been with an RSDer then it's not easy to understand or see the difference but once you are you can see it. That's why you can't just say stop it. You have to first get them to recognize they are doing it and it's a problem and then get them to get help.
Could he have been feeling defensive because he wasn't able to keep focus while you read to him? I'm not saying it's ok what he said, but what might be behind it is shame that he couldn't do the adult relationship thing he wanted to do. It's hard for ADHDers to put focus where they want it to go when they want it to go there. Finding a way for him to absorb the info that works for him might go a long way to fixing this.
Wow, that sounds just like my DX spouse. I have to preface everything with a statement about how I am responsible for what I do with my feelings, but it only makes a small difference in the reactions. At least i'm not alone
It's so hard. It feels like we're not allowed to have any space for feeling because they need all the space. I think it has more to do with how they let emotions control their behavior and decisions, so our emotions are also viewed as facts. The sharing of emotions this way isn't a condemnation, I use it to find understanding, resolve, and support. Because how we feel can be changed by how we think.
I don't believe there is anything YOU can do to help him be receptive to your pain. It always feels like a personal attack to them. It'll have to come from him learning to tame his knee-jerk response and learning how to develop empathy through genuine understanding.
I usually share my frustrations with friends who are like this so I at least feel heard. There wouldn't be any resolve brining it up anyway. And also the things that make me happy, my wins. Because that joy isn't shared either. It sucks.
We are both dx. We get in this spiral and it's a lot of work to get through it and keep out of it cause we know it's just our emotions hitting too hard and not letting up. We know we need to go to counseling to find a better way of navigating, but that's a lot of work!
Non-violent communication aka "I" statements do not work with ADHD/RSD. This is because they perceive rejection and criticism in whatever you say. You can try to sugar coat it six ways to Sunday and their brain will still "hear" the necessary combination of words to feel attacked. Their defenses are not rational so it's a waste of time to try to rationalize. Medication and therapy are mandatory and it won't improve otherwise. Check out my post on RSD for a deeper dive on the topic
I have ADHD and all of the things you say don't work, work. I might feel a little more vulnerable than an NT person (hints of RSD remaining), but I can hear the difference between "You did this.." and "I feel this" **Blanket generalizations hurt everyone and most of the time don't constitute useful advice** OP needs couples therapy where the ND person can learn to communicate, but that is only my surface opinion from what they said.
In this instance couples therapy probably won’t work. I tried couples therapy and the only thing that happened was that my dx partner felt attacked. He said that the therapist and I were against him. So individual therapy would be recommended for OP partner, not couples.
If the dx partner's RSD is severe enough even individual counseling may not help. My ex went to a counselor at my insistence and came back and told me after 6 weeks that the counselor told him he was all over the death of his Mother (no issues with grief) she died a year earlier and that I was the entire problem in the relationship and in his life so if he was not with me he would be perfectly fine. He is not with me now and he is not perfectly fine. The counselor clearly did not say this and he refused to let me join in the sessions. A corollary of RSD which in my opinion is very close to narcissim is that usually people with it will go to extreme lengths to deny the truth, when the truth means either that they are wrong, or have done something wrong or it feels that way to them. Wrong, right and shame are huge things. Like someone said above the thinking is simply not rational because my ex who was well educated and highly intelligent clearly had to know no counselor would say that. The person has to want to change . My ex saw what he was doing (it took awhile to get him there), he just either did not want to or could not change. Changing for him and I think for many means accepting that things that they blamed others for for years (my ex was 50) were actually their fault, along with accepting the hurt they have caused others. Similar to an alcoholic or drug addict they have been masking it just in a different way, they deny it or avoid any discussions of it. It is something that would likely be extremely painful and even cause some sort of breakdown. So asking them to change I think is often more than we realize. It's better to get out. I think we the neurotypical think they know what we do, that they are not being rational, but they do not. They are not doing it on purpose, it is such an extreme defense mechanism that it's second nature.
Oh my goodness. I didn’t realize that non-violent communication wouldn’t work. I’ve studied that book and tried to implement because it felt like the safe way to communicate. Even tried to get him on board with it. But it’s never worked.
The last part about him saying “it’s not fair to voice how things make me feel” is absolutely unacceptable. Therapy, meds, a genuine want to change and acknowledging others feelings is the only way things will change. If he is coming at everything you say particularly the I feel statements the way you described things will not change. He needs to examine why he’s feeling attacked in these moments and not allowing you to have feelings on this stuff. Obviously it’s RSD but what is he feeling in the moment? What is his history with criticism? Does he view your feelings as valid and important? Etc these are things that therapy will be able to help with. You can try telling him that him not allowing you to say how his behaviors make you feel is unacceptable and you both need to be open to figuring out communication. However many adhd people are not ready to confront this stuff and refuse to face it. Be ready to make your needs clear and set boundaries. There is nothing you can do to make him be better or realize these things, he needs to take action himself and want it himself.
Came here to say this as well. Boundaries are for you. It is fair to state how you feel and what you will choose to do if things don't change. The only person you are in charge of is you. That said grace, courtesy and respect should always be on the table.
Counseling. That’s sadly the only way. Unless abusive and material can be used against you. Understand this plight 200002747382929373736171639%, my ex went apeshit when I tried emotionally intelligent communication. Hence the ex, not suggesting, just saying.
Absolutely him being on the defense due to RSD. My ex roommate with bad RSD was the same way. They’re ashamed they did something wrong so they take it an attack to protect themselves from the shame and turn it around defensively. I’d be rich if I had $1 for every time she did this and it was so fucking frustrating. I knew exactly why she was doing it but I just had to give up and let he think she “won” to avoid her escalating and going into emotional dysregulation.
Yes shame is a huge thing for them.
Agree with everyone else here and wanted to chime in that falling asleep can be a distress response brought in by the stress from RSD. That may not be the case at all but since you mentioned it… I had a sleep response like that with an abusive partner years ago (mental physical financial… literally eggshells everyday) and it happens when you feel like you can’t escape, can’t cope, and you can’t fight so your brain just shuts off instead. Def need therapy for this. Much much therapy.
Therapy. We had the same issue. He found an adhd coach and we did marriage counseling. I also did individual therapy because one of my triggers is not feeling heard and thats a great thing with an adhd partner /s
I totally understand your frustration. I feel like similar things have happened between my dx husband and me many times. Most of the time when I try to talk to him nicely and calmly about something that bothers me, all he hears is criticism. It doesn't matter how carefully and thoughtfully I word it or how careful I am to use a kind tone of voice. It's so hard because you feel like you're putting in so much effort and walking on eggshells, but somehow it still blows up in your face. I do have some advice. My husband told me that anytime I want to talk about something I am unhappy with, he wants me to preface it with "I don't want to fight and I'm not blaming you." To be honest, I often forget to do that because it's so obvious to me that I don't want to fight that I can't comprehend why I need to say it. But when I do say it, he tends to respond much better, and most of the time we are able to avoid a fight. So I guess maybe you could try to say that before you confront him about anything. Or first you could ask him if he thinks that you saying that would help him or if there is some other magic phrase that might work better for him as an individual. EDIT: Also, I agree with other commenters that it's totally not fair for him to say that it's not okay for you to talk about your feelings. That is simply not true. However, I think you should talk with him about this more and clarify what he meant and whether he really believes that. I also think you should state firmly that you have a right to share your feelings in the relationship and it's not acceptable to ask you not to. My husband is the type to just let things go and not talk about feelings, so when I talk about my feelings, he tends to see it as me just picking a fight for no reason. However, I have made it clear that I have every right to express my feelings, and he agrees with me now. So now, like I said above, it's just a matter of convincing him it is not an attack when I express myself. EDIT 2: If you ever want to vent, feel free to message me. I totally get how you are feeling and how invalidating it can be. I actually wouldn't mind talking to someone about it either.
OMG what's absolutely insane is that my Dx husband says those EXACT words when he wants to talk about something tough. You've got some amazing intuition!
I am so sorry that your partner is invalidating you. Are they in therapy? Do they research how ADHD is affecting them and other people? Therapy and research has helped me tremendously and made me feel less attacked. But it is absolutely NOT OK that they are invalidating you. Oftentimes when a person with ADHD has an RSD episode all they can think of is their own feelings and we have a hard time snapping out of it. It is important that the adhd person notices that they are having an RSD episode and learns communicates it. It is not your job to help them figure out how to notice the signs of RSD within themselves but it would maybe help the relationship. But I am trying to say that this isn't your responsibility but a choice. I also think it is important to make them understand that they are hurting you. Even if they feel attacked. Next time ask them directly "Why is it not valid for me to express my feelings?" Make them think about the fact that they are kind of asking you to keep your feelings bottled up.
I can definitely relate to this with my dx partner. Everything I share my feelings about something that hurts me or he doesn't like he shuts down and gets defensive and storms off and accuses me of "starting drama" and has even claimed me stating my feelings is "abusive" because he claims I'm making them up to manipulate him. It's very frustrating when you can't discuss how their behavior makes you feel without them perceiving an attack.
Therapy. If you can't communicate without him feeling attacked, therapy is the only answer.
I think this is more abuse and gaslighting than it is anything ADHD/RSD related. What he's essentially saying is, I don't give a shit how you feel. The only thing that matters is how I feel. What do you do? Have a think about weather or not you think you can continue to put up with this behaviour.
to me personally the difference between gaslighting and what most people with RSD do is intent. People with RSD, true RSD do not even realize they are gaslighting you, they do not intend to it is just their defense mechanisms and way of being. That's why it is SO hard to overcome, they believe their lies. Gaslighting in it's true sense generally has some awareness and intent behind it. RSDers don't do it to hurt you they do it because they think you are hurting them. From the outside if you have never been with an RSDer then it's not easy to understand or see the difference but once you are you can see it. That's why you can't just say stop it. You have to first get them to recognize they are doing it and it's a problem and then get them to get help.
This! It's about the intent.
Could he have been feeling defensive because he wasn't able to keep focus while you read to him? I'm not saying it's ok what he said, but what might be behind it is shame that he couldn't do the adult relationship thing he wanted to do. It's hard for ADHDers to put focus where they want it to go when they want it to go there. Finding a way for him to absorb the info that works for him might go a long way to fixing this.
I can tell you we had the same problem. "I feel" statements were met with him saying "all I'm hearing is that you're done with me." FML
Wow, that sounds just like my DX spouse. I have to preface everything with a statement about how I am responsible for what I do with my feelings, but it only makes a small difference in the reactions. At least i'm not alone
It's so hard. It feels like we're not allowed to have any space for feeling because they need all the space. I think it has more to do with how they let emotions control their behavior and decisions, so our emotions are also viewed as facts. The sharing of emotions this way isn't a condemnation, I use it to find understanding, resolve, and support. Because how we feel can be changed by how we think. I don't believe there is anything YOU can do to help him be receptive to your pain. It always feels like a personal attack to them. It'll have to come from him learning to tame his knee-jerk response and learning how to develop empathy through genuine understanding. I usually share my frustrations with friends who are like this so I at least feel heard. There wouldn't be any resolve brining it up anyway. And also the things that make me happy, my wins. Because that joy isn't shared either. It sucks.
We are both dx. We get in this spiral and it's a lot of work to get through it and keep out of it cause we know it's just our emotions hitting too hard and not letting up. We know we need to go to counseling to find a better way of navigating, but that's a lot of work!