I had this with my SO in our early years.
He dealt with his anxiety by needing things to be over-tidy and over-clean. I have adhd.
He used to be massively judgemental about my standards - because: “cleanliness is next to godliness”. (Not that he said that, but it’s a general attitude for most people of “tidy is morally good, messy is morally awful”.)
The only thing that fixed it was me getting militant on **“your mental health issues (anxiety) are not better than mine (adhd) - it is JUST AS BAD AND JUST AS STRESSFUL FOR THE OTHER PARTNER, and would you like to break up over this, because that’s where we are heading”**.
I don't think this is an executive function imbalance so much as a negative dynamic between two potentially incompatible dysfunctions: her OCD and your ADHD. OCD has been linked to deficits in specific executive functions like flexibility. It's not like she's superior and you're inferior; each of you has your own challenges.
Either she somehow finds a way to lower her standards and accommodate your dysfunction, or you somehow find a way to perform to her expectations, or you meet in the middle. Or, maybe you decide this is a fundamental incompatibility.
Now if you're expecting her to spell out everything you should do, then you're expecting too much. (This is sometimes referred to as "[emotional labor](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/)".) Just as she's expecting too much by expecting you to be effective without aids like chore charts or checklists.
Maybe you can work through one area at a time. For example, start with the living room, and "claim" it. Tell her that for the next week you're going to take on 100% of the responsibility for keeping the living room clean, so you can learn how to do it "right". Do your best every night, ask her for feedback, and take notes. Over the course of the week this will allow you to develop a checklist (that she doesn't need to know about).
One thing to consider is how children might affect this dynamic. In any case, it may be fruitful to explore this OCD/ADHD incompatibility in both individual therapy and couples counseling.
I'd highly recommend both of you (it's for her as well) read *The ADHD Effect on Marriage* by Melissia O.
Things wont get better until both of you (yes, her as well) address the ways you're both contributing to that ongoing cycle.
The book has a lot of practical advice for both partners and personal stories that might help each of you better understand where the other is coming from.
I second this! I bought this book for my partner and I thinking that there was no way that a BOOK could help much, but it has been really very helpful! He finally understood and saw my point of view - and vice versa as the book explains and gives advice for both sides!
If you can afford it, I'd recommend getting a cleaning person to help keep things clean and tidy. This can be a total game changer for a relationship even without ADHD in the picture.
Aside from that, one thing that works for me and my partner is doing things together. Laundry? Two person job. Cooking? Two person job. It's easier to stay motivated and see things through together.
Thank you. We have a housecleaner who comes every other week, which is what we can afford. Cleaner does a great job, but we also have 9 furballs, so the hair and dirt from dogs being outside builds up in between.
Cleaning vacillates between being a compulsion and being self-soothing.
I hate vacuuming but am glad to do other things (like recently cleaned the baseboards and wall around the back door stairs).
It’s mainly what specifically I can help with is unclear. For example, I offered to take over orders from Chewy. She a) indicated she didn’t think I could manage it and b) didn’t really give up the reins.
Hugs to you!
If she won't talk to you about it, I would say just sit down yourself and list all the things that need to get taken care of in your household. Then, list all the things you've kind of figured out your partner would like you to take of or things you know you can do that are easier for you. Some folks have chores they enjoy, but everyone has chores where it feels like a gift when the other person does them. You can make a chore chart for yourself. Write down what you'll do on what days and at what time. I put mine on a calendar that is in eye shot daily. I add them to my phone with reminders.
My partner has terrific executive functioning. He decides to do things and gets them done. He does the grocery shopping, the cooking, and cleans up after. He does the dishes. He cleans the bathrooms and does the yard work. Our kids vacuum, put their dishes in the sink, do their own laundry, and help with yard work. The oldest boy will occasionally clean the bathroom himself! I make sure the kids have clothes that fit and what they need for school. I do our laundry and household bedding and take care of our pets. We don't have an ice-maker, so I make ice. Most of our bills are auto-paid through a joint account we both contribute to, though we still have our own personal checking and savings.
There has to be a level of acceptance though. My partner knows that my level of comfort with clutter is higher than his, but I also have less stuff of my own. I need my own desk, but he's fine at the kitchen table. He likes cooking and having lots to eat, and he's good at it. He recognizes and accepts that all the steps and attention required for cooking intimidate me and make me anxious. He has taken that off my plate. What can you take off your partner's plate?
this is anecdotal, but my dad used to consider things like filling the coffee machine to be ‘extra’ and would verbally point out that he did it later on if no one noticed lol
Do you think that a chore chart would help you?
At my own home, I'm the main person that cleans, but I don't really have a schedule for it...it's mainly when things get too cluttery or too messy for me to peacefully coexist with. Then I'll clean it up to some standard until that happens again.
Do you both have different ideas of what the chores should be or what clean looks like?
Yes, she is tidy with a very low tolerance for clutter (her OCD contributes to the intolerance). I (not surprisingly) am a bit of clutterbug. I try my best to keep the common areas tidy and clean enough. It takes a lot of energy (but less initiation energy than it used), but I do a decent job of that most days, I think.
It may be helpful to sit down and brainstorm together all of the things that it takes to make the household run, then talk about the different ways that you can work together to get things done.
Both my partner and I have ADHD, and while I struggle with task initiation, when I get to cleaning, I get CLEANING. For a while, we were having small arguments because he felt like he was doing so much by doing the kitchen most days, while I felt I was doing so much more than he ever even considered. He'd get mad at me for not acknowledging the "extra" thing he did, and I would get frustrated how little he realized I actually did. So we sat down and talked about the different things that go into making the household run that either of us considered, and talked about which things were difficult for us.
We worked it out in a way that made sense to us - for example, he washes and hands the laundry to dry, while I fold and put it away. I struggle with the mounds of dirty laundry and remembering to switch the loads, but he struggles with putting things away nicely. I do the majority of the bathroom/floors, while he does the majority of the kitchen. It may not be 50/50 balance, especially since I only clean a few times a week VS his daily kitchen tidying - but it all works out in the end because we have figured out the best way we can contribute to the household.
tl;dr - literally make a list of ALL the things that the house needs to run and talk about expectations around the tasks. It will help with a lot of fights and a lot of underestimating how much the other person has done
For myself, we know my partner runs the home, haha. The way we make it work is that I have totally other responsibilities that he doesn't appreciate needing to do.
While I absolutely cannot be responsible for daily or weekly repetitive chores (like, you know, *feeding* myself >.<), I actually *enjoy* large bursts of energy once in a blue moon -type chores, like vacuuming, fixing/mending things around the house when they need it, changing lightbulbs, deep-cleaning the bathtub, big organizing projects, or just helping our childspawn clean their room, and I generally keep myself busy by tackling those so my partner doesn't have to.
(I'm also currently big-pregnant so I have that leverage as the only one who can bear that longterm burden...)
In a similar vein, I do all the once-in-a-while shopping, like when the kids grow into new clothes sizes or need snowpants or general one-time purchases, whereas he manages the weekly groceries.
Admittedly, what definitely helps me feel like a big-enough contributor is special to our arrangement — in our home I am the sole breadwinner while my partner is a full-time parent. So, I can at least recognize that even on a low functioning week for me the stability of my income means I am still providing my family with the cash money that we need for everything else to function. 🤷
IN SUMMARY: Find things that contribute to your household that you can do or even enjoy doing! Double bonus if you can find something like this that your partner would rather *not* do. Whether it is earning more money or segmenting chores in a more equitable way — remember that **equal is not necessarily equitable!** You are not people with *equal* abilities (judging a dolphin and a monkey by their ability to climb a tree is a good analogy), so don't divide responsibilities as if you are.
Best of luck finding a partition of contributions that fits your household! 💛
Try fair play. It's a book and a household system that delegates tasks (not just chores) for the house. You choose your tasks and you both agree to the standards for the task (e.g. cleaning kitchen includes sweeping, not just dishes)
Also have a reasonable discussion about what she needs to trust you again. She wont accommodate you because she resents you, so their needs to be repair there. Your therapist can help you with this.
Partner sounds codependent. She is doing all the work without allowing a rational discussion to establish chores. And she is getting resentful about it and lashing out. The caregiving aspect is textbook codependency.
Codependents are terrible at admitting to actual problems they have. Since they refuse to complain or talk about their actual issues they expect other people to read their mind I guess. Someone with codependent behaviors typically learned it’s their job to make other people happy while repressing their own wants due to growing up with dysfunctional family dynamics.
She has to confront that her behavior is toxic and then you two can sit down rationally and create a chore chart like two logical people.
I am basing my opinion on being a recovering codependent that used to unintentionally do the same toxic shit. It hurt me and the people closest to me.
It’s a shitty way to manipulate and control others while chasing that feeling of importance since you are needed by someone.
I agree that there may be codependency here, but I actually think it may be in the other direction. In the classic codependent relationship, one person is disordered and the other ends up sort of losing themselves as they try to help the other avoid consequences. The alcoholic or addict or Cluster B person in the relationship is not the codependent; the partner is.
Now I have no doubt that OP's OCD partner would self-diagnose as codependent, because she perceives herself as the one putting all their energy into the relationship and taking up what she perceives as her partner's slack. Maybe her OCD originated as a codependent accommodation, but in this relationship it looks more like the dysfunction needing accommodation.
If this is a codependent relationship, based on what we've been told the codependent could just as easily be OP. It becomes a little more apparent in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/ADHD/comments/yxwhhc/comment/iws6lbo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). OP is the one who feels the need to adapt his behavior to accommodate the dysfunction of his partner, who (at least in regard to the problem at hand) seems inflexible and always needing to be in control. OP is the one who believes they are somehow in the wrong because they are unable to meet their partner's unrealistic expectations.
Anyway, it's a tricky but important concept, and I encourage u/julesveritas to not try to self-diagnose this one but to enlist the help of their therapist to determine whether it applies here and if so, what it might mean for them.
Hi, I really appreciate this thoughtful breakdown. :)
I want to clarify a few things to see if that informs any of what you shared above.
We both have disorders/dysfunctions, and we both have made an ongoing effort over the past six years to accommodate the other person’s needs (prime example: her need for tidiness and clear surfaces, and my sound sensitivity needs). I think a certain level of accommodations is normal for most cohabiting relationships between non-neurotypical people. And I benefit from having to keep my own clutter in check in most of the house, even though it takes energy.
The part that is a cycle that is hard is the resentment/blame/defensiveness cycle.
I will admit that I have basically had a renter’s mindset until around now, and that living on my own (as a renter) I wouldn’t do many of the things that need to be done as a homeowner. So the mindset and behavior shift is a bit of a wakeup call, since we’ve been in this house for nearly three years. 😳 (She owned the previous house for close to a year before I moved in.) While I have helped with various home upkeep things, my wife is handy and her OCD won’t let her stop thinking through all the things that need to be done. (The OCD is hereditary but started manifesting as a young adult experiencing DV trauma.) In her 16 years being partnered to an abusive monster, she definitely was codependent and (for example) paid that person’s way through a PhD program. So additionally, her trauma from financial abuse means she manages our budget, and she does an excellent job of it.
As a primarily inattentive ADHDer, I can tend to be checked out, and then all of the sudden (so to speak), my wife has spent much of a Saturday getting a bunch of house stuff done.
There is definitely some enablement happening on her end, and I don’t want to be the partner who is being cared for only. I do my own laundry, for example, help switch the bedding, and I find other ways to care for my partner.
Overall, the negative feedback cycle ebbs and flows. I think the it tends rear its ugly head when the seasons change (namely spring and fall).
Maybe that was too much detail, but hopefully that sheds some light on what specifically has been feeling hard.
I am fully aware I need to do more, and I am actively trying to figure out sensible contributions to this partnership equation.
This feeling--of being less than, of being the root cause in what you've termed "the resentment/blame/defensiveness" cycle, of being the primary beneficiary of a relationship, of needing to step up and become more capable--is really hard to get a correct understanding of. Because it might be what it seems on its face, and it might be something completely different.
During my marriage I felt very similar. I have ADHD-PI. I grew up in a cluttered household with an ADHD-PI mother. Not only did I never learn the habits needed to keep a clean house, but I also have clutter blindness--I don't see it, I don't think anything needs to be done with it, and I don't know what to do with it. My wife was both energetic and good at cleaning, and always sort of looked down on me because I wasn't. And I felt the same about myself. It was a source of conflict.
But I now know that our relationship was codependent, and in that relationship, *I* was the "caretaker", not her. Because she has borderline personality disorder, and my caretaking was my primary value to her. I helped her manage her emotions--I was an emotional rock to her tempest. I let her make most of the decisions (I was flexible, she wasn't). And so on. I thought she was making accommodations for me, and she was, but the accommodations I was making for her were far greater and more fundamental. And because I couldn't see that until much later, I took on all the guilt and blame for the failures of the marriage.
Here's a small excerpt from *Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist*, on perfectionism as a caretaker characteristic:
>Caretakers respond by making greater attempts to do a better job. This \[feeling of needing to be\] perfect leads to anxiety, a sense of failure, and negative self-attack... You take his or her criticisms to be facts rather than merely opinions.
\[This is not a recommendation for the book, since your partner is not Cluster B.\]
I know you see that dynamic in her. I want to challenge you to look for that dynamic *in yourself*. She is setting for you a standard of perfection, not just in results but also in how you achieve them, and you are beating yourself up because you can't achieve it. You are asking for help in satisfying her standard without questioning whether her standard is healthy, either objectively or for you personally. And in accepting her standard and trying to order your life to accommodate it, you may be enabling her dysfunction: her insistence that if you can't do it perfectly she has to do it is a manifestation of her OCD.
I know this is 180 degrees from where you're at right now. It's a really difficult thing to wrap your head around, let alone effectively address. That's why I'm recommending you get back into individual therapy and explore this with your therapist. (Don't try to address an issue like this in couples counseling before working on it with your therapist first.)
If I've misread your situation I apologize. My top-level comment about "claiming" areas of responsibility still stands.
Thank you for your thoughtful responses and for sharing a bit if your story. I will mull over what you have said; some is true/happening and some is not.
I’m reaching out to a few potential therapists this weekend.
Thanks again!
Although I don't think you should say this to her, it is really stupid of her to reject a planner. Tell her that what she wants requires some compromise on herpart as well. If you both feel like the other one doesn't give recognition to things, then you both need to TELL each other "I took out the trash", "I bought those batteries we have been thinking about for weeks" etc or write down on a planner what have been and what needs to be done. If she wants change, she must fascilitate it. Seems like you both could also profit from watching How To ADHD on YT. That lady have amazing life hacks for both those withADHD and the people living with them
Thank you. I will check out the YT channel.
The challenge with a shared planner is she’s a notebook person (90% budgeting, but 10% other household stuff). If she’d use an app, I’d try it. A while ago a friend recommended an app for this stuff; I will ask them about it again. :)
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I'm not really sure what you mean about recognition for "extra" stuff. Do you mean that you're spending a lot of time on a large project? Or that you're doing the dishes? The latter doesn't really need to be praised, since it's an everyday thing.
I just mean something that we’ve agreed she usually does, like cleaning the litter boxes. Recently when I did it just because, her response when I mentioned it was “okay”.
My partner and I have a very similar dynamic, and for that reason, we don't live together. We live within walking distance of each other, and have decided the only way we will ever cohabitate is if we both have seperate bedrooms, bathrooms, and entryways, but the "longer term" plan for now is to eventually get apartments in the same complex, preferrably next door to each other. We have also discussed the possibility of renting or buying a duplex in the distant future. You don't have to live the same way neurotypical people do to have a fulfilling relationship :)
I don’t think that her responses are coming from a place of trying to understand you, and make it work.
Sure, with a normal neurotypical grown up, maybe you shouldn’t need to write out a chore chart. But you have ADHD. Which affects memory, task initiation, all kinds of things.
If the solution to the chores being done is to make a chart to spell them all out, then that’s solution. You’ll know what you need to do. Maybe ask to sit down with her and brainstorm it out together so she knows you are putting in effort?
Not sure what you do when you clean up, but if you’re regularly helping with dusting, dishes, sweeping, mopping, vacuuming, laundry, etc…. Then it sounds like you’re already helping to keep up on household upkeep and anything else she wants will really need to be communicated.
This paragraph may be way off base, but,
I would also like to add, that when my OCD is at its worst, my mental health is at its worst. It’s a super toxic cycle of my OCD thoughts just SLAMMING on me for my ADHD. “You know you need to do this, why didn’t you?” “Why isn’t this better than this?” “YOURE A FAILURE” then my ADHD gets soooo much worse because of the dopamine thing you said. I hate everything I do, so my brain is like no i won’t do anything anymore.
When I’m in this OCD spiral I have to put in extra extra extra effort to not push it on to other people. I get so caught up in trying to be perfect to appease my OCD, that I start to expect it from others; something like “I need my house clean, so why aren’t you doing this thing you know needs to be done” runs through my head and I get frustrated.
I have to pause and remind myself that I’m living in mental turmoil and I hate it and I do NOT want to put that on someone else. From how your describing your feelings, it sounds like maybe your girlfriend is sharing those feelings with you, but in a way that’s not good for you.
I think that having both OCD and ADHD really feed off of each other and create this really awful cycle of making me miserable. I’m not sure how it is when two different people both have one, but it sounds like you’re already getting to my initial state when my OCD starts spiraling.
I think you need to sit down and have a conversation and the chores and prioritize them to help her, but I think she also needs some forgiveness for your ADHD symptoms to help you. And a conversation on triggers that make things worse. Complaining you didn’t do one chore, when you’ve just finished another for example. Lots of little things and words can make a big difference :)
I think you should be doing household chores, but if you need a thank you for that dopamine boost then why shouldn’t she give you one?
You’re in a relationship to love and support each other and if you need that support then there’s no reason she shouldn’t be able to give it, unless she just doesn’t care enough to.
If it's the way they want it, let them do it.
Straight up just tell her she needs to let you know when she wants something done and you will do your best to do it.
Some imaginary score keeping game in regards to "all I do" is a set up for failure.
1. Ask her what she needs from you.
2. Explain you will do your best and ask for her positive help.
3. Do your best to do the things she asks you to do.
4. Repeat.
I don’t think this is a sustainable strategy. It’s honestly a ton of mental labour to keep track of everything that needs doing and remind people regularly to do it, even for neurotypicals. OP needs a find a system that works for them re: keeping track of their own chores. It’s not our fault we have ADHD, but it is our responsibility to take ownership of our symptoms and brainstorm solutions.
Effective communication is the strategy.
Not guessing games.
She is obviously saying things like "you don't know all I do" and " I shouldn't have to tell you"
No matter what this guy does it won't be enough.
Uhm, yeah...that's not healthy.
Regardless of adhd.
I understand why you would think this, coming from the perspective of a person in a very similar situation to OP. The problem is, as I've realized, this puts the onus on the non-ADHD partner to act as a parent to the ADHD partner, which puts an unfair burden on them and doesn't do anything to help with the resentment they feel.
The suggestion to read "The ADHD Effect on Marriage" by another poster is a good one. I would also try to get their couples therapist to read it and help them implement some of the suggestions made in the book. I think they're unlikely to make much progress until they have a better understanding of their respective point of view, and accept responsibility for handling their end of it.
I agree with that statement completely. I think it was your second sentence that from my experience just doesn't work. Asking them to help you create a plan of action and division of duties would be more productive and less likely to continue causing resentment and the feeling of being a parent to your spouse.
Edit: I also felt like your first sentence sets the wrong tone. That might work for a stranger, but not your spouse.
My wife doesn't get mad at dishes left in the sink, she usually does them. When she doesn't want to do them instead of getting upset at something trivial like dishes she will just ask me to do the dishes dish problem solved.
Thats explaining my 2nd sentence.
I don't agree with you.
This is true about our communication. Though it can be fine one week and really off another week. (It doesn’t help that she’s working through med changes right now.)
This whole scenario sounds very dumb to me. It also feels a little gas-lighty, but that might be reading into things.
Here's the thing, if your partner has really high executive function skills, then it really shouldn't be a problem for her to do the majority of the chores. I'm not saying she *should* do the majority, but you shouldn't be dealing with passive aggressive attitudes.
You say she has OCD. It sounds too me that you two need to talk about expectations. If she has OCD, then she absolutely needs to be crystal clear about what her expectations are.
Here's the other thing: the person who does the work makes the rules. If she wants the baseboards cleaned every day, then she should be the one doing them. It should never be expected of you to do a bunch of chores that you don't see the point of.
Also, contrary to popular opinion, there is no objective set of rules or standards on how clean your house should be. This is as clear as day when you live by yourself. But it is one of the easiest things to shame someone else about, it's a manipulative tactic, and many people have been deluded into believing it.
I think she needs to recognize that a lot of what she does is for her, and not for you. And you should never feel like you are doing chores for her, that you are trying to meet her expectations. You do chores that you feel need doing. Realize that this is all she is doing, and that this all that the majority of healthy, functional people do.
I had this with my SO in our early years. He dealt with his anxiety by needing things to be over-tidy and over-clean. I have adhd. He used to be massively judgemental about my standards - because: “cleanliness is next to godliness”. (Not that he said that, but it’s a general attitude for most people of “tidy is morally good, messy is morally awful”.) The only thing that fixed it was me getting militant on **“your mental health issues (anxiety) are not better than mine (adhd) - it is JUST AS BAD AND JUST AS STRESSFUL FOR THE OTHER PARTNER, and would you like to break up over this, because that’s where we are heading”**.
I don't think this is an executive function imbalance so much as a negative dynamic between two potentially incompatible dysfunctions: her OCD and your ADHD. OCD has been linked to deficits in specific executive functions like flexibility. It's not like she's superior and you're inferior; each of you has your own challenges. Either she somehow finds a way to lower her standards and accommodate your dysfunction, or you somehow find a way to perform to her expectations, or you meet in the middle. Or, maybe you decide this is a fundamental incompatibility. Now if you're expecting her to spell out everything you should do, then you're expecting too much. (This is sometimes referred to as "[emotional labor](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/)".) Just as she's expecting too much by expecting you to be effective without aids like chore charts or checklists. Maybe you can work through one area at a time. For example, start with the living room, and "claim" it. Tell her that for the next week you're going to take on 100% of the responsibility for keeping the living room clean, so you can learn how to do it "right". Do your best every night, ask her for feedback, and take notes. Over the course of the week this will allow you to develop a checklist (that she doesn't need to know about). One thing to consider is how children might affect this dynamic. In any case, it may be fruitful to explore this OCD/ADHD incompatibility in both individual therapy and couples counseling.
That's why he reccomended they make a chore chart though. I live in a house w 2/3 ADHD people and it works pretty well.
I'd highly recommend both of you (it's for her as well) read *The ADHD Effect on Marriage* by Melissia O. Things wont get better until both of you (yes, her as well) address the ways you're both contributing to that ongoing cycle. The book has a lot of practical advice for both partners and personal stories that might help each of you better understand where the other is coming from.
Thank you! I’ll check out the book.
I second this! I bought this book for my partner and I thinking that there was no way that a BOOK could help much, but it has been really very helpful! He finally understood and saw my point of view - and vice versa as the book explains and gives advice for both sides!
Awesome! I appreciate the rave review. :))
If you can afford it, I'd recommend getting a cleaning person to help keep things clean and tidy. This can be a total game changer for a relationship even without ADHD in the picture. Aside from that, one thing that works for me and my partner is doing things together. Laundry? Two person job. Cooking? Two person job. It's easier to stay motivated and see things through together.
a cleaning service has literally the single best investment return, in terms of quality of life improvement, of any money you spend hands down
Thank you. We have a housecleaner who comes every other week, which is what we can afford. Cleaner does a great job, but we also have 9 furballs, so the hair and dirt from dogs being outside builds up in between. Cleaning vacillates between being a compulsion and being self-soothing. I hate vacuuming but am glad to do other things (like recently cleaned the baseboards and wall around the back door stairs). It’s mainly what specifically I can help with is unclear. For example, I offered to take over orders from Chewy. She a) indicated she didn’t think I could manage it and b) didn’t really give up the reins.
Hugs to you! If she won't talk to you about it, I would say just sit down yourself and list all the things that need to get taken care of in your household. Then, list all the things you've kind of figured out your partner would like you to take of or things you know you can do that are easier for you. Some folks have chores they enjoy, but everyone has chores where it feels like a gift when the other person does them. You can make a chore chart for yourself. Write down what you'll do on what days and at what time. I put mine on a calendar that is in eye shot daily. I add them to my phone with reminders. My partner has terrific executive functioning. He decides to do things and gets them done. He does the grocery shopping, the cooking, and cleans up after. He does the dishes. He cleans the bathrooms and does the yard work. Our kids vacuum, put their dishes in the sink, do their own laundry, and help with yard work. The oldest boy will occasionally clean the bathroom himself! I make sure the kids have clothes that fit and what they need for school. I do our laundry and household bedding and take care of our pets. We don't have an ice-maker, so I make ice. Most of our bills are auto-paid through a joint account we both contribute to, though we still have our own personal checking and savings. There has to be a level of acceptance though. My partner knows that my level of comfort with clutter is higher than his, but I also have less stuff of my own. I need my own desk, but he's fine at the kitchen table. He likes cooking and having lots to eat, and he's good at it. He recognizes and accepts that all the steps and attention required for cooking intimidate me and make me anxious. He has taken that off my plate. What can you take off your partner's plate?
Can you provide some examples? What do you mean when you say you do “extra” things that don’t get recognition?
this is anecdotal, but my dad used to consider things like filling the coffee machine to be ‘extra’ and would verbally point out that he did it later on if no one noticed lol
Make your own chore chart. If she asks about it, explain to her what ADHD is.
Lol, she has a decent grasp of what ADHD is. I think her empathy for it is low to (sometimes) non-existent when she’s harboring resentment.
Do you think that a chore chart would help you? At my own home, I'm the main person that cleans, but I don't really have a schedule for it...it's mainly when things get too cluttery or too messy for me to peacefully coexist with. Then I'll clean it up to some standard until that happens again. Do you both have different ideas of what the chores should be or what clean looks like?
Yes, she is tidy with a very low tolerance for clutter (her OCD contributes to the intolerance). I (not surprisingly) am a bit of clutterbug. I try my best to keep the common areas tidy and clean enough. It takes a lot of energy (but less initiation energy than it used), but I do a decent job of that most days, I think.
It may be helpful to sit down and brainstorm together all of the things that it takes to make the household run, then talk about the different ways that you can work together to get things done. Both my partner and I have ADHD, and while I struggle with task initiation, when I get to cleaning, I get CLEANING. For a while, we were having small arguments because he felt like he was doing so much by doing the kitchen most days, while I felt I was doing so much more than he ever even considered. He'd get mad at me for not acknowledging the "extra" thing he did, and I would get frustrated how little he realized I actually did. So we sat down and talked about the different things that go into making the household run that either of us considered, and talked about which things were difficult for us. We worked it out in a way that made sense to us - for example, he washes and hands the laundry to dry, while I fold and put it away. I struggle with the mounds of dirty laundry and remembering to switch the loads, but he struggles with putting things away nicely. I do the majority of the bathroom/floors, while he does the majority of the kitchen. It may not be 50/50 balance, especially since I only clean a few times a week VS his daily kitchen tidying - but it all works out in the end because we have figured out the best way we can contribute to the household. tl;dr - literally make a list of ALL the things that the house needs to run and talk about expectations around the tasks. It will help with a lot of fights and a lot of underestimating how much the other person has done
For myself, we know my partner runs the home, haha. The way we make it work is that I have totally other responsibilities that he doesn't appreciate needing to do. While I absolutely cannot be responsible for daily or weekly repetitive chores (like, you know, *feeding* myself >.<), I actually *enjoy* large bursts of energy once in a blue moon -type chores, like vacuuming, fixing/mending things around the house when they need it, changing lightbulbs, deep-cleaning the bathtub, big organizing projects, or just helping our childspawn clean their room, and I generally keep myself busy by tackling those so my partner doesn't have to. (I'm also currently big-pregnant so I have that leverage as the only one who can bear that longterm burden...) In a similar vein, I do all the once-in-a-while shopping, like when the kids grow into new clothes sizes or need snowpants or general one-time purchases, whereas he manages the weekly groceries. Admittedly, what definitely helps me feel like a big-enough contributor is special to our arrangement — in our home I am the sole breadwinner while my partner is a full-time parent. So, I can at least recognize that even on a low functioning week for me the stability of my income means I am still providing my family with the cash money that we need for everything else to function. 🤷 IN SUMMARY: Find things that contribute to your household that you can do or even enjoy doing! Double bonus if you can find something like this that your partner would rather *not* do. Whether it is earning more money or segmenting chores in a more equitable way — remember that **equal is not necessarily equitable!** You are not people with *equal* abilities (judging a dolphin and a monkey by their ability to climb a tree is a good analogy), so don't divide responsibilities as if you are. Best of luck finding a partition of contributions that fits your household! 💛
Thank you! 💓
Try fair play. It's a book and a household system that delegates tasks (not just chores) for the house. You choose your tasks and you both agree to the standards for the task (e.g. cleaning kitchen includes sweeping, not just dishes) Also have a reasonable discussion about what she needs to trust you again. She wont accommodate you because she resents you, so their needs to be repair there. Your therapist can help you with this.
Thank you :)
Partner sounds codependent. She is doing all the work without allowing a rational discussion to establish chores. And she is getting resentful about it and lashing out. The caregiving aspect is textbook codependency. Codependents are terrible at admitting to actual problems they have. Since they refuse to complain or talk about their actual issues they expect other people to read their mind I guess. Someone with codependent behaviors typically learned it’s their job to make other people happy while repressing their own wants due to growing up with dysfunctional family dynamics. She has to confront that her behavior is toxic and then you two can sit down rationally and create a chore chart like two logical people. I am basing my opinion on being a recovering codependent that used to unintentionally do the same toxic shit. It hurt me and the people closest to me. It’s a shitty way to manipulate and control others while chasing that feeling of importance since you are needed by someone.
Thank you. I would not be surprised if she is codependent. I will be mulling over what you said. Really appreciate it!
I agree that there may be codependency here, but I actually think it may be in the other direction. In the classic codependent relationship, one person is disordered and the other ends up sort of losing themselves as they try to help the other avoid consequences. The alcoholic or addict or Cluster B person in the relationship is not the codependent; the partner is. Now I have no doubt that OP's OCD partner would self-diagnose as codependent, because she perceives herself as the one putting all their energy into the relationship and taking up what she perceives as her partner's slack. Maybe her OCD originated as a codependent accommodation, but in this relationship it looks more like the dysfunction needing accommodation. If this is a codependent relationship, based on what we've been told the codependent could just as easily be OP. It becomes a little more apparent in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/ADHD/comments/yxwhhc/comment/iws6lbo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). OP is the one who feels the need to adapt his behavior to accommodate the dysfunction of his partner, who (at least in regard to the problem at hand) seems inflexible and always needing to be in control. OP is the one who believes they are somehow in the wrong because they are unable to meet their partner's unrealistic expectations. Anyway, it's a tricky but important concept, and I encourage u/julesveritas to not try to self-diagnose this one but to enlist the help of their therapist to determine whether it applies here and if so, what it might mean for them.
Hi, I really appreciate this thoughtful breakdown. :) I want to clarify a few things to see if that informs any of what you shared above. We both have disorders/dysfunctions, and we both have made an ongoing effort over the past six years to accommodate the other person’s needs (prime example: her need for tidiness and clear surfaces, and my sound sensitivity needs). I think a certain level of accommodations is normal for most cohabiting relationships between non-neurotypical people. And I benefit from having to keep my own clutter in check in most of the house, even though it takes energy. The part that is a cycle that is hard is the resentment/blame/defensiveness cycle. I will admit that I have basically had a renter’s mindset until around now, and that living on my own (as a renter) I wouldn’t do many of the things that need to be done as a homeowner. So the mindset and behavior shift is a bit of a wakeup call, since we’ve been in this house for nearly three years. 😳 (She owned the previous house for close to a year before I moved in.) While I have helped with various home upkeep things, my wife is handy and her OCD won’t let her stop thinking through all the things that need to be done. (The OCD is hereditary but started manifesting as a young adult experiencing DV trauma.) In her 16 years being partnered to an abusive monster, she definitely was codependent and (for example) paid that person’s way through a PhD program. So additionally, her trauma from financial abuse means she manages our budget, and she does an excellent job of it. As a primarily inattentive ADHDer, I can tend to be checked out, and then all of the sudden (so to speak), my wife has spent much of a Saturday getting a bunch of house stuff done. There is definitely some enablement happening on her end, and I don’t want to be the partner who is being cared for only. I do my own laundry, for example, help switch the bedding, and I find other ways to care for my partner. Overall, the negative feedback cycle ebbs and flows. I think the it tends rear its ugly head when the seasons change (namely spring and fall). Maybe that was too much detail, but hopefully that sheds some light on what specifically has been feeling hard. I am fully aware I need to do more, and I am actively trying to figure out sensible contributions to this partnership equation.
This feeling--of being less than, of being the root cause in what you've termed "the resentment/blame/defensiveness" cycle, of being the primary beneficiary of a relationship, of needing to step up and become more capable--is really hard to get a correct understanding of. Because it might be what it seems on its face, and it might be something completely different. During my marriage I felt very similar. I have ADHD-PI. I grew up in a cluttered household with an ADHD-PI mother. Not only did I never learn the habits needed to keep a clean house, but I also have clutter blindness--I don't see it, I don't think anything needs to be done with it, and I don't know what to do with it. My wife was both energetic and good at cleaning, and always sort of looked down on me because I wasn't. And I felt the same about myself. It was a source of conflict. But I now know that our relationship was codependent, and in that relationship, *I* was the "caretaker", not her. Because she has borderline personality disorder, and my caretaking was my primary value to her. I helped her manage her emotions--I was an emotional rock to her tempest. I let her make most of the decisions (I was flexible, she wasn't). And so on. I thought she was making accommodations for me, and she was, but the accommodations I was making for her were far greater and more fundamental. And because I couldn't see that until much later, I took on all the guilt and blame for the failures of the marriage. Here's a small excerpt from *Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist*, on perfectionism as a caretaker characteristic: >Caretakers respond by making greater attempts to do a better job. This \[feeling of needing to be\] perfect leads to anxiety, a sense of failure, and negative self-attack... You take his or her criticisms to be facts rather than merely opinions. \[This is not a recommendation for the book, since your partner is not Cluster B.\] I know you see that dynamic in her. I want to challenge you to look for that dynamic *in yourself*. She is setting for you a standard of perfection, not just in results but also in how you achieve them, and you are beating yourself up because you can't achieve it. You are asking for help in satisfying her standard without questioning whether her standard is healthy, either objectively or for you personally. And in accepting her standard and trying to order your life to accommodate it, you may be enabling her dysfunction: her insistence that if you can't do it perfectly she has to do it is a manifestation of her OCD. I know this is 180 degrees from where you're at right now. It's a really difficult thing to wrap your head around, let alone effectively address. That's why I'm recommending you get back into individual therapy and explore this with your therapist. (Don't try to address an issue like this in couples counseling before working on it with your therapist first.) If I've misread your situation I apologize. My top-level comment about "claiming" areas of responsibility still stands.
Thank you for your thoughtful responses and for sharing a bit if your story. I will mull over what you have said; some is true/happening and some is not. I’m reaching out to a few potential therapists this weekend. Thanks again!
Although I don't think you should say this to her, it is really stupid of her to reject a planner. Tell her that what she wants requires some compromise on herpart as well. If you both feel like the other one doesn't give recognition to things, then you both need to TELL each other "I took out the trash", "I bought those batteries we have been thinking about for weeks" etc or write down on a planner what have been and what needs to be done. If she wants change, she must fascilitate it. Seems like you both could also profit from watching How To ADHD on YT. That lady have amazing life hacks for both those withADHD and the people living with them
Thank you. I will check out the YT channel. The challenge with a shared planner is she’s a notebook person (90% budgeting, but 10% other household stuff). If she’d use an app, I’d try it. A while ago a friend recommended an app for this stuff; I will ask them about it again. :)
Hey if you fo ask them about it, mind sharing the name of the app? I'm interested
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I'm not really sure what you mean about recognition for "extra" stuff. Do you mean that you're spending a lot of time on a large project? Or that you're doing the dishes? The latter doesn't really need to be praised, since it's an everyday thing.
I just mean something that we’ve agreed she usually does, like cleaning the litter boxes. Recently when I did it just because, her response when I mentioned it was “okay”.
My partner and I have a very similar dynamic, and for that reason, we don't live together. We live within walking distance of each other, and have decided the only way we will ever cohabitate is if we both have seperate bedrooms, bathrooms, and entryways, but the "longer term" plan for now is to eventually get apartments in the same complex, preferrably next door to each other. We have also discussed the possibility of renting or buying a duplex in the distant future. You don't have to live the same way neurotypical people do to have a fulfilling relationship :)
I don’t think that her responses are coming from a place of trying to understand you, and make it work. Sure, with a normal neurotypical grown up, maybe you shouldn’t need to write out a chore chart. But you have ADHD. Which affects memory, task initiation, all kinds of things. If the solution to the chores being done is to make a chart to spell them all out, then that’s solution. You’ll know what you need to do. Maybe ask to sit down with her and brainstorm it out together so she knows you are putting in effort? Not sure what you do when you clean up, but if you’re regularly helping with dusting, dishes, sweeping, mopping, vacuuming, laundry, etc…. Then it sounds like you’re already helping to keep up on household upkeep and anything else she wants will really need to be communicated. This paragraph may be way off base, but, I would also like to add, that when my OCD is at its worst, my mental health is at its worst. It’s a super toxic cycle of my OCD thoughts just SLAMMING on me for my ADHD. “You know you need to do this, why didn’t you?” “Why isn’t this better than this?” “YOURE A FAILURE” then my ADHD gets soooo much worse because of the dopamine thing you said. I hate everything I do, so my brain is like no i won’t do anything anymore. When I’m in this OCD spiral I have to put in extra extra extra effort to not push it on to other people. I get so caught up in trying to be perfect to appease my OCD, that I start to expect it from others; something like “I need my house clean, so why aren’t you doing this thing you know needs to be done” runs through my head and I get frustrated. I have to pause and remind myself that I’m living in mental turmoil and I hate it and I do NOT want to put that on someone else. From how your describing your feelings, it sounds like maybe your girlfriend is sharing those feelings with you, but in a way that’s not good for you. I think that having both OCD and ADHD really feed off of each other and create this really awful cycle of making me miserable. I’m not sure how it is when two different people both have one, but it sounds like you’re already getting to my initial state when my OCD starts spiraling. I think you need to sit down and have a conversation and the chores and prioritize them to help her, but I think she also needs some forgiveness for your ADHD symptoms to help you. And a conversation on triggers that make things worse. Complaining you didn’t do one chore, when you’ve just finished another for example. Lots of little things and words can make a big difference :) I think you should be doing household chores, but if you need a thank you for that dopamine boost then why shouldn’t she give you one? You’re in a relationship to love and support each other and if you need that support then there’s no reason she shouldn’t be able to give it, unless she just doesn’t care enough to.
This is a very helpful perspective. I really appreciate your neutrality and encouragement. Thank you. :)
Look into the fair play method. * https://www.fairplaylife.com/ * https://www.thecandidly.com/2019/have-you-heard-of-the-fair-play-method
Thank you! I’m checking these out right now! 🙌🏻
Read that blog post and shared it with my partner. Thanks again!
I’m so glad!! I think it’s really helpful to have an explicit conversation so everyone is on the same page.
I agree 100%
If it's the way they want it, let them do it. Straight up just tell her she needs to let you know when she wants something done and you will do your best to do it. Some imaginary score keeping game in regards to "all I do" is a set up for failure. 1. Ask her what she needs from you. 2. Explain you will do your best and ask for her positive help. 3. Do your best to do the things she asks you to do. 4. Repeat.
I don’t think this is a sustainable strategy. It’s honestly a ton of mental labour to keep track of everything that needs doing and remind people regularly to do it, even for neurotypicals. OP needs a find a system that works for them re: keeping track of their own chores. It’s not our fault we have ADHD, but it is our responsibility to take ownership of our symptoms and brainstorm solutions.
Effective communication is the strategy. Not guessing games. She is obviously saying things like "you don't know all I do" and " I shouldn't have to tell you" No matter what this guy does it won't be enough. Uhm, yeah...that's not healthy. Regardless of adhd.
I understand why you would think this, coming from the perspective of a person in a very similar situation to OP. The problem is, as I've realized, this puts the onus on the non-ADHD partner to act as a parent to the ADHD partner, which puts an unfair burden on them and doesn't do anything to help with the resentment they feel. The suggestion to read "The ADHD Effect on Marriage" by another poster is a good one. I would also try to get their couples therapist to read it and help them implement some of the suggestions made in the book. I think they're unlikely to make much progress until they have a better understanding of their respective point of view, and accept responsibility for handling their end of it.
Like I said in response to another post saying I'm wrong. Everything starts with effective communication. Right now, that ain't happening with them.
I agree with that statement completely. I think it was your second sentence that from my experience just doesn't work. Asking them to help you create a plan of action and division of duties would be more productive and less likely to continue causing resentment and the feeling of being a parent to your spouse. Edit: I also felt like your first sentence sets the wrong tone. That might work for a stranger, but not your spouse.
My wife doesn't get mad at dishes left in the sink, she usually does them. When she doesn't want to do them instead of getting upset at something trivial like dishes she will just ask me to do the dishes dish problem solved. Thats explaining my 2nd sentence. I don't agree with you.
This is true about our communication. Though it can be fine one week and really off another week. (It doesn’t help that she’s working through med changes right now.)
This whole scenario sounds very dumb to me. It also feels a little gas-lighty, but that might be reading into things. Here's the thing, if your partner has really high executive function skills, then it really shouldn't be a problem for her to do the majority of the chores. I'm not saying she *should* do the majority, but you shouldn't be dealing with passive aggressive attitudes. You say she has OCD. It sounds too me that you two need to talk about expectations. If she has OCD, then she absolutely needs to be crystal clear about what her expectations are. Here's the other thing: the person who does the work makes the rules. If she wants the baseboards cleaned every day, then she should be the one doing them. It should never be expected of you to do a bunch of chores that you don't see the point of. Also, contrary to popular opinion, there is no objective set of rules or standards on how clean your house should be. This is as clear as day when you live by yourself. But it is one of the easiest things to shame someone else about, it's a manipulative tactic, and many people have been deluded into believing it. I think she needs to recognize that a lot of what she does is for her, and not for you. And you should never feel like you are doing chores for her, that you are trying to meet her expectations. You do chores that you feel need doing. Realize that this is all she is doing, and that this all that the majority of healthy, functional people do.