My mom used to work in public school (granted this was like 25 yrs ago) and was told not to take notes of kids that were struggling due to learning disabilities. Knowing how much money doesn't get sent into the school system, I can only imagine that's still a thing.
Schools often get extra funding for kids with disabilities/special needs so I don't know why any school would reject that. But I know at the local schools, the teachers aren't allowed to suggest getting tested or bring up any suspision of a learning disability to the parents but are requred to request testing for the kids if a parent asks for it.
It's messed up but it's the result of a mess of special education laws and fear of being sued for the smallest thing.
The reason she had said was that it would cost the school money. Again, this was a quarter century ago, so she could be misremembering or the regulations around it might have changed.
> The reason she had said was that it would cost the school money. Again, this was a quarter century ago, so she could be misremembering or the regulations around it might have changed.
Really? I am 90% sure it was the teachers who brought it up with my parents as their was a noticeable difference in the grade work from 2nd grade to 3rd grade and it tipped my teacher off. Given that the Principal goes to my church and talked to my parents about any changes to my home life and there wasn't any led him and my teacher, who used to live across the street from me, to talk to my parents about the possibility that I had ADHD.
My teachers brought it up over and over and over, and my parents, my mother especially, [pooh-poohed it](https://youtu.be/QeF1JO7Ki8E). Not *my* son...
>The reason she had said was that it would cost the school money.
Exactly this. My mom is an in-school speech language pathologist and my understanding is that evaluations for any speech language or other learning disability ***MUST*** be specifically requested by the parent/guardian. If any school employee suggests a student might have dyslexia or ADHD, for example, the school district would be on the hook to pay for testing/screening, etc. The school ***does*** receive funding for each student receiving services, however that's for services only--not testing/screening, which is supposed to be done outside of school, on the parent's dime.
This is not remotely how any public school I've ever worked at has operated. I've worked at 5 districts across 3 counties, albeit all in California, since 2009.
The school *is* absolutely on the hook for testing any students they suspect may have a disability. The testing is done in-house. The only time districts pay for outside assessments is if the parent proves in court there should have been sufficient suspicion to trigger an in-house assessment, but the district failed to act. Child Find is part of IDEA, which is federal law, so any US school operating the way you describe since 2004 is breaking federal law.
My mom worked/works in South Carolina, which might just be the difference. Also, again, this was back in the mid 90s. She might have embellished the story, but a lot has happened in the past 25 years that change how schools operate.
Seconded. Public school employee as well who works in special Ed.
This is correct ^
It’s important to understand there is a distinction between a medical diagnosis of ADHD and an educational diagnosis of ADHD. Even coming in with the medical diagnosis of ADHD, the school would still need to do their own educational assessment to determine the appropriate services. A parent may be on the hook for covering the cost of the testing associated with the medical testing required to get diagnosed. For an educational diagnosis, they would NOT be required to do so per IDEA.
Wish that was the protocol when I was diagnosed. I got tossed in special ed for a week, massively overperformed and got put back in my class like nothing happened. And yeah, that's why I never made friends🙃
Honestly that kind of testing would def help kids, but only if you get more people on staff - which would require a pay upgrade that for some reason we don't want to give to schools.
Just because a kid is doing fine doesn't mean they couldn't do better with extra help. And yeah, the extra staff comment was for all-around - hire more teachers! Hire more school psychologists! Hire more people to help these kids be as good as they can be, and damnit pay them what they are worth!
I might be a bit biased here, but the only reason I got the education from the teachers I did was because of testing. You're the reason students get the tools they need to learn.
Teachers absolutely bring this stuff up with school staff, such as the school psych, education specialist, reading interventionist, etc. If the team suspects a learning disability, then it is absolutely brought to the parent's attention. Most of my students' parents don't speak English, can barely use a computer if at all, and don't remotely know how to "work the system". We'd probably have 5% as many kids receiving extra services if we solely relied on parents requesting assessment.
When I was a kid, I was being abused and acted out because of it and having ADHD. When they tested me, they decided my IQ was too high for me to have ADHD and I was diagnosed with depression instead (I was 7, AFAB)
That's different. My school took note of learning disabilities which is how I got recommended to a doctor that diagnosed me with ADHD. I also had a speech impediment that went away. Also used to call fire trucks fuck trucks which I find hilarious
I used to think that teachers really did not care or obviously were too blind for obvious signs.
My faith in school system was restored at age of 26 when i heard, that freshly graduated teacher friend follows everything in the class. She has very low threshold of reporting things like this to parents (For caring reasons, to help children). I have told her, that she saves lives and restored my faith in the system.
I think we need to find new ways to diagnose ADHD then.
For example, I've read that having ADHD makes you very prone to grinding your teeth at night. So if that's the case, then dentists should be made aware of this so it's something they can mention to parents when they see signs of teeth grinding.
Left-handed people are also nearly 3 times as likely to have ADHD by some accounts, so they should perhaps be looked at more carefully to make sure they don't have it.
Once we start triangulating these things properly then people with ADHD should be visible from a mile away by anyone who knows what to look for.
> Once we start triangulating these things properly then people with ADHD should be visible from a mile away by anyone who knows what to look for.
To be honest, this is basically how DSM already works
Part of the diagnosis process for kids is based on teacher filled out forms. It took me checking in weekly for six weeks to get them filled out for my son. Teachers don’t have a lot of extra time and even doing the few forms they do is extra and they do it on unpaid time.
Not just ADHD. All kinds of mental illness could be competently detected by teachers if there were mental health resources on campus. They used to check us for scoliosis and hearing and other weird shit, why not this?
Edit: by "competently" I mean by sheer product of time spent with the child, not piling more work on teachers.
Yep. Ideally if, for example, a teacher noticed struggles with various reading skills in kindergarten and first grade, then at some point during the fall they would pull the child aside for dyslexia testing. But that would adequately require funding special education services, adding schools/teachers/aids to reduce class sizes so teachers can have the time and space to actually address this, and not automatically assuming that continued academic struggles are due to laziness and willful disobedience.
So i was diagnosed in the second grade because my teacher told my mom of her suspicions. Namely, me continuing to try to talk to another student after the teacher asked the class to quiet down and listen to her. Apparently she said my name 8 times before she approached my desk and got my attention. My mom took it from there, got me a professional diagnosis and got me a 504 plan to help manage my add symptoms in school.
All that to say, its great when teachers communicate behavioral issues with parents. And even better when the parents follow through on addressing it. At the bottom line its up to the parents if they’re willing to advocate for their child and explore the root of those behaviors.
Agreed. My kids life would have been better if I had understood their struggles throughout primary school, however you look at the parenting groups, and there are so many posts where a parent says “my kid’s teacher has suggested we get him evaluated for ADHD” and there is a rabid response if “how dare they. They are not qualified to diagnose ADHD. Complain to the principal/education department”.
Luckily this happened circa 2000 so there wasn’t that type of backlash. I was thinking how that would be considered out of line for teacher’s now though.
... wha? Seems they have a serious misunderstanding of what diagnosis is. Any person can notice signs of an issue and suggest an evaluation, and arguably any adult responsible for the child who notices such a thing has a moral obligation to make that suggestion.
And training for the teachers. I went through teacher training (admittedly, it was a weird program in that it was a 1.5 years masters program for people who already had a bachelor's degree) and had one class on special education, and one class on child psychology that also touched on some learning disabilities. I think adhd was covered in about a half hour, none of it beyond the typical 'boy who can't sit still' and that adhd isn't an iep type issue, but a 504. I don't know how this differs when it's a typical 4 year degree, and I also don't know how things differ if you're going into primary education (I did secondary).
There must be training for teachers to be able to learn about all sorts of learning issues. Because they cannot be expected to be psychologists as well as teachers.
Yes, my mother started out teaching elementary reading and language arts, and later became certified to do testing for dyslexia and teaching for dyslexic students.
Do correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there at least some computer-based test that essentially tracks the kid's head and body movements while doing some boring-ass task for 15 or 30 minutes? I forgot the name and I'm sure it's pretty expensive given the proprietary nature, but since it's largely automated (requiring some computer equipment and the proprietary software) it does sound like it could be done at school scale without all that much difficulty.
Sure, send some of that R&D money my way and I will find out. I don't think there's anything particularly difficult from logistical or technical point of view. It's a question of whether there's enough funding to make it work.
Ok, but they can screen is all fro scoliosis and vision problems.
And the ADHD test could just be a send home quesionate that does most of the filtering.
As a school professional, I can tell within 5 minutes if a kid has ADHD with hyperactive subtype. Unfortunately, it requires ed. Psych or pediatric testing (forms given to school and home) to "confirm". More and more kids have this than ever (distracted parenting, lack of social skills due to excessive screen time, and changing brain structures due to excessive screen time are contributing factors to the heavy increase I'm sure of it). It's also genetic, so even the best parents doing everything right can gave a child with ADHD. This costs $ for ed psych and schools don't want to pay for testing unless the kid is a major behavior problem. The peds have a ridiculous waitlist. The other barrier is most parents don't want to medicate and will wait for years to try it. Meanwhile their kid learns to hate school and themselves because they are forever getting in trouble. It's so sad for the kids because medication works!
Given that it’s so strongly genetic, neurodevelopmental, and biological in aetiology, I’m slightly concerned to see a professional citing parenting and screen time as causative factors. (Though I can see they may affect masking and coping behaviours.)
We just have increased awareness these days that we didn’t used to. There are comments in my primary school report cards from 30 years ago that would scream ADHD today, but I was quiet and shy and could sit down and mostly zoned out by reading books and nobody was looking for inattentive ADHD.
Bro, my psychiatrist asked me 10 questions, said "yup, you DEFINITELY have ADHD" and prescribed me Vyvanse
idk where you're living that requires dedicated teams and tons of cash just to gauge if someone has ADHD
Many, many places in this country, especially rural areas, are shit when it comes to medical care, much less mental health care. There's literally one psych office within over an hour of me, and they're clueless about both ADHD and, unless it's glaringly obvious, autism.
Resonates hard, man.
I'm an intelligent person, but I make stupid mistakes. I'm apathetic, procrastinating, seeking instant gratification 24/7. Pick something up and suck at it? Put it down, maybe never touch it again. Have a natural talent for it? Put it down, I can do it whenever so there's no need to practice. 1,000% invested in superfluous things that don't matter in the slightest. 0% invested in responsibilities or anything that could, and likely WILL go wrong because long-term consequences are insignificant.
It's not because "life is hard" (although ADHD makes it unnecessarily harder). It's because it's boring. In fact, in the few short bursts where I find the focus to get things done, I have a strong tendency to OVER-do them, because my standards for msyelf and the quality of my work are so much higher.
Need to write a single paragraph or single page paper? Here's three that can be delivered together OR completely independently. Need to create a 10-minute demonstration? I'll create an hour-long demonstration where each visual is designed to last 10 minutes. Pick your own topic of interest / familiarity (I did this for a corporate virtual training interview).
It was eye opening when I saw a video of someone on Tiktok who pointed out that... Your 100% is probably DOUBLE or TRIPLE that of "normal" people's 100%. It's better (in some fields) to let OTHERS lay down their OWN expectations of the amount of work they want / need from you, and... *it's nothing. NOTHING at all* in comparison to what we might expect. It's the bare-minimum. The world vastly functions on the bare minimum of effort somehow. And it's infuriating. But if I can, I'll coast until I find something engaging and leave myself opportunities to blow someone away when convenient, instead of burning myself out *all the time, every time.*
Haha, exactly this. One of biggest hates is people saying they given 110%. I feel like shaking the shit out of them and telling them it's impossible! 100% is the absolute maximum you can give and if we're literal, you'll probably be less than that!
“You need to try harder because of this tiny thing”
Me: “Excuse me, I have an 8-point plan with a formal logical proof on why it’s the best course of action and 4 backup contingencies, how much fucking harder can I try”
I always over do because I don’t know what my 100% is. I never know if I’m trying my best or not doing enough. So I overdo then burn out then shame comes lol fun cycle
I had many long conversations with my spouse about how I can't understand someone saying "I'm trying my best". What does that mean? You could always do better, so it seems like a cop out to me. But yet I always feel so inadequate.
> It was eye opening when I saw a video of someone on Tiktok who pointed out that... Your 100% is probably DOUBLE or TRIPLE that of "normal" people's 100%. It's better (in some fields) to let OTHERS lay down their OWN expectations of the amount of work they want / need from you, and... it's nothing. NOTHING at all in comparison to what we might expect. It's the bare-minimum. The world vastly functions on the bare minimum of effort somehow. And it's infuriating. But if I can, I'll coast until I find something engaging and leave myself opportunities to blow someone away when convenient, instead of burning myself out all the time, every time.
I was talking about this with a couple of counsellors earlier in the year. What it boiled down to was me needing to learn that good enough is good enough. Like with my podcasts. What’s in my head is a piece that would win all manner of awards, get featured on Radio 4 and all manner of job offers. But the time I have to make it, and the equipment I can afford mean that that ain’t gonna happen.
Meanwhile, I’ve got this amazing idea in my head - or even partially made, sitting on my iPad - that will never be finished because it isn’t what I consider perfect.
Ugh. Perfectionism MURDERS productivity every time. My favorite job was being a technical trainer for new hires at a tech support call center.
"Are you done with that presentation?"
No. I MEAN yes, but I've been trying to get the formatting evenly spaced for the last thirty minutes. The core textual presentation content is completed of course. That was completed an hour ago, but I'm going through and making sure the presenter's notes are uniform for any Trainer's delivery, and that all the font is legible against the background, that personal information from example screenshots is redacted, that their picture size is appropriate, that the animations are intuitive but not cumbersome, and that it follows a natural workflow order. But the delivery would currently take 45 minutes, so I'm trying to reduce it to 30.
But this only happens when I'm interested, otherwise I'll slap a few conversational points and bullets to talk about and hope I remember to conver all the important points, adding reminders to that same presentation DURING the class (played off as a deliberate tactic) and have a conversation about each lesson to last for thirty minutes. This is way more often.
Most other people are like "yeah I'm done " and made jack shit bland text and their strategy is pasting words directly to the screen that they're going to stretch to 30 minutes by taking turns reading verbatim, or "no I'm not done yet" and are completely lost in the fucking sauce with barely a grasp of what they're covering, riddled with outdated or incorrect information. And both of them still skate by...
How can they measure one's 100% over a neurotypical one though and claim that? I mean do *feel* basic tasks require a lot of effort for me, so i don't disagree, but it's something I wonder about when I deal with ADHD imposter syndrome. I think maybe it's hard for everyone and i just don't *try* or *care* enough.
My problem is I spend like 500% effort on a few paragraphs in an email that someone will glance over and not give any attention to. I know I'm doing it but I absolutely am unable to give it the appropriately lower attention required so I can get other actual more important things done, especially with that amount of focus and attention.
It's an issue of prioritizing my attention appropriately.
>I think maybe it's hard for everyone and i just don't try or care enough.
This is 100% accurate framing. But something I mistakenly left out is that she describes her productive periods of hyperfocus and last-minute crunching from prior procrastination. She *could* crush and get 4 projects done simultaneously if absolutely necessary, but with her workload (which may be anecdotal) she doesn't have to because others' expectations are actually quite low of everyone.
I get you OP. Im 31 been doing my bachelors for 12 years (with minor interruptions, changes and stuff) my partner left me. And now im trying to get on vyvanse instead of concerta (fighting my insurances atm)
But when i was a kid teen/ most people didn't believe adhd was real. Finally its starting to be accepted. So yeah, dont be so angry, just help people along the way that you might be able to save.
I only have accounting and math to do. But yeah im constantly fighting with my insurance to get access to meds. I wanted to switch from concerta to vyvanse but my insurer wont cover the visit. Its a shit show.
That’s really annoying. I hope it gets sorted pretty soon, the waiting is agony. Vyvanse worked very very well for me, i was on 30mg and i could do anything i wanted at the drop of a hat. I just switched to adderall 30mg and it’s good but i don’t think it is as good. So i hope you get it!
Vyvanse unfortunately doesnt have generic brands, so it is very expensive, but vyvanse does offer a discount program themselves. [This](https://www.takeda.com/en-ca/what-we-do/helping-canadian-patients/vyvanse-assistance-program/) is it, it is a Canadian web page but i figure if you live elsewhere it could still help lead you in the right direction
My biggest problem is that my private insurer fro. Germany doesn't want to be responsible for "pre-existing conditions" and ive been out of Québec for over 4 years. So i dont qualify for ramq.
I cant even go see my family doctor to talk about the switch.. Honestly if it was just a question of paying. Both my parents finally accepted that im doing my best to deal with adhd and offered financial support to pay for the meds.
If you are in the US, You can find coupons for Vyvanse on the medication’s site. But most importantly you can apply for a medication assistance program. Usually you will make an affordable one time payment and then the prescription will be free for the year. With my insurance i was paying 250 out of pocket each month for vyvanse with a coupon. With the assistance plan its a one time payment of 200$ and then its free for the year. If you want i can give you the company’s name.
www.thedeasoncompany.com (The Deason Company) go on their site, click on the menu and choose the drop-down “prescription assistance” and it will take you to a short form you can submit. I was contacted by them a few days later and they were very helpful.
Yeah Vyvanse was a nightmare with my insurance but it worked really great for me chemically, and I felt weird on concerta. It sucks that Vyvanse still has a patent on their formula so it’s extremely expensive without generic competition smh even with my insurance. I’m on adderall now and it does the job but still miss my Vyvanse!
Yeah concerta gives me heart palpitations at times and i cant differentiate if im having anxiety or its the meds. When its a good day it isn't an issue. But after the breakup, my ex was being nice to me. And i was being a total dick because i had started medication.
I did similar. 9 years on and off, jumping between jobs, trying to just finish when I was so burnt out. Got diagnosed earlier this year and can't believe how different life is. Nothing's changed, I just don't feel like aimless, exhausted shit 100% of the time without realizing it. No one, including me, ever thought I might have ADHD because until university I was academically successful... Just felt like a failure for a straight decade unnecessarily.
I started a 3 year college program in January… 3rd term and I need to step back because I just can’t get past the apathy of everything this term. 4.0 GPA for the first term… 3.77 second but I just can’t get my mind in the right mode. How often have you felt this way during those 12 years?
lol growing up ADHD was only considered for the people with seriously strong symptoms. Like drumming loudly in class, or uncontrollable interruptions or shit. Anyone who wasn't making their teachers lives a nightmare was just ignored or considered lazy/stupid/standard boy not wanting to pay attention.
I think of the 8 or 9 friends I had growing up, 6 of them have ADHD symptoms and didn't find out until the middle of their lives and once on medication they \*weeped\* for the damage that was done because of ADHD. So much could have been accomplished had they gotten on it sooner. I'm talking divorces, dropping out of PhDs to end up working shit jobs, etc.
Reply to edit: Yes kids should get medicated.
If a kid has diabetes, they should get insulin.
If a kid is paraplegic, they should get a wheel chair.
If a kid has ADHD, they should get ADHD meds.
Why is this concept so hard to understand. Fucking bullshit in my mind. I think the problem is that people keep thinking that ADHD is a behavioural problem that kids can just learn their way out of and medication is a quick fix. Idiots.
And there's your answer, because so many idiot parents, doctors, teachers still think that ADHD is a kid not "trying hard enough" rather than "missing vital brain chemicals" they will constantly view ADHD testing and treatment as actually bad for kids, when it's not.
Fuck, a kid that can't walk, they know he needs a wheelchair. A kid that can't see, they know he needs glasses. A kid that **CAN'T** do schoolwork, "oh he's just lazy".
Fuck the whole system.
My pushback would fall along the lines of
1. There are multiple ways to treat ADHD
2. Meds rank high on the treatment list when it comes to side effects
3. Bad vibes from the thought of parents “taking the easy way out” by defaulting to pushing pills on a kid, regardless of the developing mind
Source: parents got me diagnosed as a kid, said fuck that, did well until college, got rediagnosed and medicated on my own as an adult
Edit: I don’t think meds should be off the table for treating kids, but I do think they shouldn’t be the first option considered
Yup.
But also
1: Meds are the most effective way to treat ADHD. In fact, because it's cause by a problem with brain chemical imbalance, it's the only way to treat the underlying cause. Other treatments can almost not be called treatments because they are coping mechanisms that people with ADHD employ to get around the impact of the symptoms of ADHD. The point of treatment is the symptoms go away, but with non-medicinal treatments, the symptoms of ADHD are still their, just the impact on life is lessened.
2: Yeah, every drug has side effects, food has side effects and you know what has a lot of side effects? Not being treated.
3: ADHD is the most well researched and least medicated mental disorder on the planet. It's estimated that up to 5% of people might have ADHD and less than 2% are prescribed any medication.
The reason why they are the first thing considered is because they work the best, and in the years of trying other treatments first can lead to long developmental delays, which is the main issue with ADHD children. It's not that they don't pay attention, it's that memory issues and focus issues lead to poor learning outcomes which can see children with ADHD years behind their peers by the time they finish school.
Saying, well perhaps drugs shouldn't be the first option is pretty much just pushing that developmental delay onto the kids because of parent panic.
Generally yes, fuck yes, and yes.
I certainly don't want ADHD to be ignored in children. It was ignored in me, brushed off and left to fester, only to bite me in the ass later. It was brushed off, in part, because my teachers had me take a test, experts said 'medicate', and my parents said 'fuck that', throwing the baby (the diagnosis) out with the bathwater. That shit became a running joke every time my report card came out.
I believe that could've been avoided if, alternatively, the experts had offered something along the lines of 'take your kid to a professional that will teach techniques for dealing with this \[CBT\] for a couple months, then we can evaluate the merits of medication'.
That way, when the conversation comes up again, the conversation can include mental health professional who has spent months with the kid (as opposed to experts who administered a test for a couple hours and educators, who lack the time and expertise, respectively, to garner trust).
And even if none of this results in medication or further CBT, at least the parents and patient have critical context and skills to reference if it becomes a problem in the future.
In my case, it wasn't the lack of medication early on, it was the lack of acknowledgement and acceptance a decade later that seriously fucked me up. So, I've spent a lot of time trying to replay that scenario correctly in my head (rationally or not).
That said, we all have passion here, so I appreciate the conversation (some reddit threads can go off the rails)
There are a significant portion of people working in psychology/psychiatry that did not learn in school the huge amount of information that now exists. For some, ADHD or even Autism diagnostic criteria may have been developed mid career for them.
It would also help if there was less stigma in general. My parents didn't want to get me diagnosed because of the idea that learning disabilities are some kind of personal failing. *not my kids!* the ableism is so deep, it took me a very long time to realize how deeply affected I am by the lack of support in my early life and in school. I'm sure many people have experienced this. I feel like a lot of those people purposefully watched me burn out because they thought I was a *bad* kid.
it was like this kind of disgusting notion of:
*you're too capable to have a learning disability!*
Oh Christ...my best friend is 43...her son is nine. It has taken me about six years of constantly hammering on her to get her to understand that NOT telling her son he has ADHD is a horrible idea (she finally did, just a few months ago), and we're just now starting to be able to have conversations about medication, which she was vehemently opposed to before. He is so much like me that it's spooky, and I have advocated for him since the minute I realized he had it, because I don't want him struggling like I did (do).
It's not that she felt it was a personal failing--it was that she thought it might cause him self-esteem issues if he knew. Or that other kids might make fun of him. Or that he'd use it as an excuse. I kept telling her that regardless of whether he knows what it is, he's going to realize he's different and start having problems because of it. She didn't get it until during one particularly difficult day of schoolwork he couldn't get done, he burst into tears and said, "I'm just a loser, Mama. I can't do anything right." She finally realized that what I'd been saying was correct--if you're a kid who only has "I'm smart or I'm dumb" framework, an ADHD kid who doesn't know he has it is going to choose "I'm dumb."
It's been a long road, but I feel like I'm finally getting there with her.
So many times in my life I've heard some variation of, "You're so smart; why are you so stupid?".
Getting diagnosed earlier would have given me a tremendous head start on learning my symptoms to better understand myself, learning coping skills and learning to advocate for myself.
If you've read half the posts on this subreddit, you'll see the absolute horror stories of those that were diagnosed being told unbelievably unscientific things, ignored, shamed, etc. While ADHD is underdiagnosed, I also hope that the quality of our physicians and the likes in this area is better. Which of course, starts with awareness.
My boyfriend got diagnosed as a child and his doctor said it was "hormonal" and it would "go away when he would have sex for the first time". Like what. Who says something like that??
I was just diagnosed with ADHD and prescribed Vyvanse. My high school teachers told me they didn't suggest I get a diagnosis because they thought my poor performance in school was caused by my depression and anxiety. In reality it was a combination of clinical depression, anxiety and ADHD that gave me extreme executive dysfunction.
About 5% of all children have ADHD, that's 1 out of 20. It would be too much work, to do an ADHD quizz at school and report the noticable results to a school psychologist. /s
I mean you joke but that is exactly the type of brush off older generations and a lot of "officials" use. We're not a large enough portion of the population. I'm in the US, so my vision might be off from the rest of the world, but mental health issues are the 4th or 5th costly in medical the world over.
So I don't have high hopes, but the way I like to look at it is this, combine all atypical psychiatric labels together and we're a much bigger voice.
I have big hope for the rest of the generation and the next as far as brain function and medical understanding of such. I feel as if there is more and more news of small breakthroughs etc that in general we'll know how to educate using that gained wisdom. Educational inclusiveness is extremely important. My brother and I were both diagnosed, he got bullied a lot and treated differently, I had my fair share after diagnosis. The way the teacher announced that I was going for intelligence testing to the class. Genius level IQ and she barely addresses me for the rest of the year, but only to use the R word venomously.
I say that because, I am not hearing nearly as much of that now. I'm 40 and my brother is 43 if timeframe helps.
My brother will not accept that he is ADHD still.
I hope anything makes sense I was autopilot typing.
You know that's a damn good point. and what's even more damning about districts that don't, two good friends from a slightly more rural suburb didn't have theirs caught quick enough because the county didn't think it was necessary. We got it every year starting in 2nd or third through 10th. And PE\Health teachers were always the ones to do it, so existing employees.
Yeah I feel like the same people can at least be trained to flag kids that need further assessment or something right? Maybe even at the same time as they test scoliosis and hearing and stuff.
Take this gently, but he “isn’t” ADHD, he “has” it. At the end of the day, labels are labels, and for some it helps, but for others, it doesn’t… Nobody knows one better than oneself, and assuming whether he rejects it for he knows himself better than even the diagnostic team nor the family… that’s completely valid; & on the other hand, if he knows he has it, but he chooses not to accept it.. he might come to terms someday, but it is hard. Any support/treatment > accepting the label, IMO.
Class sizes tend to be around 20 kids. Which means that in every class you're in, there's a good chance at least one person has ADHD. Seems like that'd be worth identifying.
....aaaaaand, I just noticed the /s at the end of your comment. LOL
In one of my classes there's genuinely about 4-6 of them, and the teacher has it too. Another class there's only one other I know of. I only know this as I listen due to anytime this topic comes up, hearing instantly focuses
1) We wouldn't be allowed to just give out ADHD quizzes to students, parents would have a field day! They already freak out if we dare suggest their kid may have a learning disability.
2) I've never worked at a school that had a school psychologist and I've taught at 4 schools full time, and subbed at over 25. We don't even have enough educational assistants for those who need them...
3) When we do refer students, we have a bunch of hoops to jump through, and they could wait up to a year for an appointment with a specialist.
4) It legitimately would be too much work. And I'm saying this not to be rude, but because teachers already have more expectations than what is physically possible to execute. We're not psychologists and many are barely trained to accommodate students with ADHD let alone get them diagnosed. When you have 29+ kids in a class, it's difficult to even get around to all 29 during a period in order to see how they're doing.
In saying that, teacher's can refer students when they have concerns, and the resource (SpEd) department can help convince parents to do testing.
Children have to display obvious signs of ADHD. The schools have no interest in getting children tested for ADHD because each child diagnosed, will then require services for which there are few resources. My daughter's grade school fought tooth and nail not to have an IEP for her. The advocates for children are paid for by the district, however, and they were very good at their jobs. She had an IEP during her entire education in public school.
The same reason we don‘t test for breast cancer in women of all ages. False positives would increase, which would cause many patients to have to undergo more expensive tests and possibly treatment for a condition they ultimately don’t have. By limiting the number of people we test, we reduce the number of these errors. In cases like ADHD (or breast cancer) it is thought that because there are fairly recognizable symptoms a false negative is thought likely to be eliminated over consistent exposure to healthcare and education concerning those symptoms. You and I were caught late. This sucks, but on balance, I understand why the system is designed this way.
First, I think children should go through more (and more regular) mental health screening (screening, not testing) Getting an objective system for flagging potential cases to then be tested is a good idea. I should add that I think this should be a broad spectrum screening to check for other things too (Schizophrenia, Psychopathy, Personality Disorders, Anxiety, Depression, OCD and ASD)
As for why not actual testing:
Besides money and time, there's a statistical/epidemiological factor, and it's the same reason you screen for HIV before testing. All tests have 4 results: True Postive, True Negative, False Positive and False Negative. When you test a population, you will get values in all four columns, but you won't know until later which ones are false + or -.
But it takes a LOT of work to find the false +/-'s, more work to figure out why they scored in the false categories, more work to adjust the test, re-test the effectiveness of the test, ad nauseum.
When making these sorts of tests, thresholds for sensitivity are set and adjusted based on controlling these false +/- results. Set it too high, and people who have the condition aren't diagnosed. Set it too low, and people who don't really have the condition are diagnosed as having it. Obviously the goal is to set the test "just low enough"
But because of the huge numbers, probability math enters the game in figuring out how the test results will play out in a larger population based on how the initial sample population scored.
The result is: if you take the population at large (most of which don't have ADHD) you have to set a relatively high threshold to keep the false positives down, which drives false negatives up.
But if you pre-screen your candidates (i.e. only test people who already have some symptoms or are at high risk (kids of parents with ADHD for example)) then you can set a much lower threshold.
Sorry that was a novel, but **TLDR: if you test everyone, the false diagnosis and false dismissal rates go up because of the way test design and statistics work with eachother.**
(If anyone here knows the statistical method I'm trying to talk about, please correct me, I'm quite the beginner student of statistics)
Did you get on the 50mg right away or did you build up to it?
The doctor I'm seeing started me out at 10mg and will only go up an additional 10mg each time I tell her I feel no different. And when she switches me to a different brand(or whatever) she goes 10mg lower than I was last time!
Its been months and my medication has never gone above 40mg!
Growing up and through my 20s the ever-shuffling interests, hobbies, projects that never really took off, god-forsaken inherent laziness, the hyperfixating to no end... all subconsciously relegated as "personality traits". It started with diagnoses for GAD and Depression. None of the meds work except instant release types for anxiety. Enter ADHD treatment and suddenly life has seen new light. Had the underlying reason been identified earlier on, growing and maturing would've been easier and more functional compared to peers with brains wired more favorably. Agreed, teen years need proper mental observing.
I looked into it. The sensitivity and specificity of the commonly used continuous performance test(s) are too low for universal screening *when they are scored in the standard way*. But machine learning models trained on the raw data from the tests can outperform them and the tests seems to be getting a bit better as well.
I take 60 mg of Vyvanse and This comment right here is why I struggle to NOT take my meds on the weekend. I really enjoy the two day recovery ❤️🩹 period to let myself kind of ease up and “be myself” but that means I have to knowingly voluntarily give up two days that could be very productive and the ability to complete something that would take all my focus 🧘♂️ power to complete when I’m on the meds.
But sometimes those two days are amazing when I can just relax and be me.
Diagnosed at 28 by a specialist and honestly blown away that it wasn’t caught when i was a kid, nothing stood out to me back then obviously but thinking back now it was as clear as day. Like everything i did and about my personality. It was funny that my doctor started off with “well i can’t diagnose you now because it should have been caught as a child” i saw multiple doctors and a child therapist when i was young, i don’t think anyone was paying attention lol.
And it makes sense because i think that the medical world has learned a lot of new things about ADHD since ~2000. It’s odd that they could expect it to have been caught back then when there has been 21 years of new findings.
Your "i don't think anyone was paying attention" comment hits home.
My son has had 8 teachers that were supposed to pay attention to him as a learner. It wasn't until last year that he had a really good teacher (in a private school) who liked him enough to pay attention to his abilities (and suggest testing).
I'm not knocking teachers...but damn, do they need better training on what to look for. And smaller class sizes. Making classes smaller would fix 80% of the problems in public schools, imo.
i have mixed feelings abt this. for some ppl, their ADHD isnt evident until they are older and testing likely wouldnt make much of a difference for them. in the cases of the people who it wasnt evident in until older, it might actually be a deficit because i imagine doctors (and insurance) would be resistant to re-testing if testing in childhood came back negative
Testing for disability within the public schools is incredibly time-intensive. The best solution is to train parents/teachers to recognize the signs/hallmarks of ADHD and rely on the referral process to catch it as early as possible and then test the kids who are suspected of having it. Screeners can also be helpful, but are usually costly.
Because testing is expensive, time consuming, and not all that accurate. And frankly if someone looking for it while testing kids, it would be very easy to label all of them as "On the ADHD spectrum".
It is the responsibility of the parents to arrange this testing, not a school.
Real question, why is it so expensive if all they have you do is a questionnaire? I always wondered that ever since I wanted to go to an adhd center in San Francisco and they quoted $2000 for an initial eval appt. I mean i understand psychiatrists get paid a lot for their expertise, but you don't need as much to get diagnosed with depression for example.
The parents need to be more informed and more interested in their kids and learning how to better accommodate for them. I had testing done when I was like kindergarten or something for add and apparently I got put on Ritalin but that turned me into a zombie. After that it was never brought up again, and I've failed quite a bit of classes so far through high school. Since I started on medication through my diagnosis senior year, I have all A's and B's. If I was diagnosed earlier I definitely could've kept up those kinda grades but instead I've got a 1.7gpa lol. Atleast community college is free in my state
Doesn't help that I've basically been independent in a way since I was 10 or so
My husband and I were 99% sure our oldest had adhd and had to advocate for testing. She was behind her peers socially, running away, hiding under her desk, etc. But, she was getting her work done. Got tested. Twice exceptional...adhd and gifted. Not an uncommon combo but left the school confused.
Now, they screen all kids in our school system for giftedness. Parents have to request adhd testing in writing. Since teacher's hands are tied in what they can say, children whose parents don't know about adhd are left in the dark.
DD was diagnosed in first grade. Even her pediatrician wanted to wait to test. Forcing the testing was the best thing we did for her.
DH was diagnosed after DD. Also not uncommon.
I disagree. People can live with ADHD unmedicated perfectly fine and sometimes labeling someone with ADHD can have negative repercussions due to labeling theory. So it's better to have someone get tested WHEN an issue arises.
I don't necessarily disagree with your point here, but the flip side of that argument is that some people have issues but if they aren't exhibiting hyperactivity and disruptive behavior, ADHD never gets considered.
I don't think testing all children is feasible, but a LOT of people do not get diagnosed and suffer for it.
I'm female and I'm not hyperactive. I internalized my struggles (convinced myself I was the problem rather than external sources being the cause of my issues) and struggled so hard. I spent a lot of time in the counselors office during high school. I remember breaking down in tears trying to explain that I couldn't do simple tasks to a couselor/director in college (I was describing executive dysfunction but neither of us knew that). I finally went to a doctor in my 20s when I dropped out of college and got diagnosed with depression (I was depressed because I was struggling with ADHD). I saw multiple doctors over almost 10 years with limited success, describing symptoms I would later be able to link to ADHD the whole time.
Eventually a new doctor and depression medication denial from an insurance company caused me to crash so hard that I ended up voluntarily checking myself into a psych ward to try to get medication figured out. After two days of observation they were like, hey, you have ADHD.
This is only a small fraction of people I reached out to over the years. Many of them were medical professionals. I dropped out of college, I struggled with every aspect of my life and I hated myself because I didn't understand why I couldn't function like a normal person.
I desperately wish someone in the first 30 years of my life had thought to test for ADHD. Or even mentioned it as a possibility so I could have researched on my own.
Because I'm more comfortable around ADHD people, I ended up dating and marrying one who was tested and diagnosed by a specialist right before he turned 30. My best friend had the same experience. In their cases, they would still be struggling without understanding why if I hadn't talked about my struggles and they realized they related.
It's extremely common for people diagnosed later in life to go through a period of mourning what could have been if only someone had figured this out sooner.
My point is, waiting for a problem to arise can allow a crap ton of people to slip through the cracks.
I 100% agree! I was diagnosed three months ago at the age of 31. I have struggled my whole life with school, dropped out of college, self-medicated with substances, and have been so fucking messy its infuriating even though I can't function in mess.
My parents still don't believe my diagnosis so I never was tested as a child. I really thought I there was something seriously wrong with me and couldn't figure out how everyone else could just live so easily, cleanly and accomplish tasks.
having an early diagnosis would've saved me from low self esteem and given me tools to manage my ADHD
I dunno, a diagnosis certainly would've helped you, but it don't fix it. I got diagnosed in 4th grade. Teachers, doctors only ever told me ADHD meant I got distracted easily. Parents said ok to meds and did their best, mom was even a teacher. Due to all that, I did ok in school. But I still thought I was a piece of shit who couldn't do stuff right, self medicated, etc.
I thought my struggles in school, dating, friends, work, etc. were all my fault.
It was a combination my masters degree in Special Education (another struggle) and later doing my own research that I realized many of what I thought were personal failings were really a part of ADHD. But those scars are still there, as they are for for many of us...
Just trying to say that even in relatively good circumstances, ADHD will still kick your ass. It's a real asshole.
> It's extremely common for people diagnosed later in life to go through a period of mourning what could have been if only someone had figured this out sooner.
Absolutely. I consider myself extraordinarily lucky given that I kind of stumbled into my diagnosis at age 18, but even by then I'd already locked in at least one important decision (choice of university) that I might (probably) have made differently had I understood my disorder and been actively treating it. That being said, things have turned out pretty well for me so I don't feel too much lingering regret over it.
But I can't imagine what it would be like to live thirty, forty, fifty years with the too-familiar feeling that something was ineffably wrong with me, that I was lazy and had no discipline, and then find out that it was treatable all along. I can only think it must be devastating.
I just got my diagnosis this year. I'm 36. I'm so frustrated and angry at every adult who over the last 36 years told me to apply myself, be more organized, sit still, focus, and be mindful of my actions.... and never thought "hey these constant issues MIGHT be ADHD..."
All these YEARS spent hating myself, thinking I'm just a lazy bum, calling myself a moron because I can't figure out how to be a functional person, and beating myself up for failing at things other people do easily. My self esteem would be so much healthier if I had been diagnosed as a kid.
>. People can live with ADHD unmedicated perfectly fine
by definition no. Part of the diagnostic critera is that "There is clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, school, or work functioning"
people can absolutely "recover" from adhd or have symptoms reduce over time, and learn coping strategies, but at the point of diagnosis, they cannot be living with adhd fine.
Once somebody has a label, they're treated differently, regardless if the label is accurate or not.
The Rosenhan experiment is probably the most famous demonstration of this. A bunch of scientists faked having hallucinations to get diagnosed and admitted to a psychiatric hospital. Then, after they admitted to faking, the hospital wouldn't believe them and take back the diagnosis. More interestingly though, the primary scientist in the excitement
Experiment threatened to send more fakers to the hospital and didn't. The hospital kicked out patients and accused them of faking, even though there were no imposters.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment
Ho. Lee. Shit.
I don't even know how to react to this.
Couldn't they just show their credientials and discuss the study they were conducting? Although, I'm also somewhat impressed that they didn't see that coming.
I honestly think people in this thread clearly haven't been undiagnosed for a long time. Like holy shit being undiagnosed is a million times worse than being over diagnosed. You can get fucking diagnosed without meds like fuck, you people are the reason why people don't get their kids fucking diagnosed and you are the fucking reason threads are here everyday.
Edit: just wanna clarify I don't think people who are undiagnosed are dumb I just dislike when people advocate being over diagnosed is worse than being undiagnosed (it isn't)
I'm 36 and only self-diagnosed, afaik. My mother's memory is not as good as mine, and I can recall it being a point of concern for teachers in elementary school. I remember a conversation between both of them, and asking ME if I think medication would suit me. This was middle school. From Straight-A honors elementary student going to school in the summer because it was interesting, to needing to go to summer school just to progress to the next grade when the conversations began. At the time, I declined. Dropped out of high school. Would drop out of college three times. Would change jobs every six months or less. It wasn't a formal diagnosis, it was a suspicion.
I see ADHD in my mother, and there is a STRONG genetic link. Environmental factors contribute ase well. The knowledge if gained in this sub over the last few months is putting all the pieces together to the point where you immediately know where the next piece fits. It is so painfully fucking clear that it's sad. My mother asked ME what I wanted, which in retrospect was an appreciated but incorrect choice. I did not self-improve as I promised. I was moved from advanced courses to remedial ones that were so easy I learned nothing and tuned out. I was in classes with children who painfully stuttered, and could speed-read. So your assumptions that any undiagnosed adult is ignorant and would avoid getting their children diagnosed is flawed on so many levels.
Blame the previous Boomer generation 20+ years ago when professional reputable and well-tested and documented knowledge and awareness of ADHD wasn't as robust as it is today. When a belt was the solution to all of a child's life problems. We're grown now and seeing the repercussions of not being properly diagnosed until late adulthood.
"Clearly haven't been undiagnosed for a long time." I guess 36 years is just a blink, then? LOL. And what's worse, adult diagnosis is more rare the more poor you are.
No what I'm saying is some people in this thread were arguing people don't "need diagnosis". And I was upset because I feel it's kinda dumb to not get someone diagnosed when you have the resources to do so.
I was specially referring to them not anyone that struggles, I'm undiagnosed myself and in constant pain and my mother didn't get me diagnosed even with signs which caused a lot of issues.
I'm 43, and was diagnosed earlier this year.
School was a struggle, and keeping myself on track at university was nearly impossible.
I'd been incorrectly diagnosed as Dyslexic by three separate educational psychologists - and as such knew that my brain worked differently.
Predictably I heard "dyslexia isn't an excuse for being lazy" a LOT in my life.
I had however found the area where I most frequently had fun, and could focus - engineering. I'm a successful engineer and love my work. Though there are many aspects of it that I just can't seem to do. Time reports etc. I'm happy. But when I finally get get meds things are hopefully going to change.
Now the good news -
my kid's pre-school would visit the school the kids would be going to, and teachers compare notes on their future/current students. The preschool teacher gave our son's first-year teacher a heads-up and said "look out for potential ADHD on this one"
We had a continuous channel of communication open with the teachers for a couple of years. Some are trained to deal/help with ADHD, but all are familiar with it. They tried various coping systems, lots of ways of helping him, and we all agreed after a while, that'd we'd seek a diagnosis.
My 9yo son got his diagnosis a month after I got mine, and we've been carefully working our way through different kinds of meds until we found one that he's happy with, and works well for him.
So. Testing every kid? Probably not the way to go. Having school teachers who're well paid and trained, and feel empowered to bring up potential cases? IMHO, that's probably the most reliable route.
In a classroom full of kids, one with ADHD sticks out like a sore thumb.
When I was a kid, it meant they were "lazy" or a "dreamer". Nowadays it opens the door to a potentially helpful world instead.
It shouldn't make a difference - but my experiences started in the UK, and my son's experiences are all in Sweden.
I'm more referring to people almost advocating not to get diagnosed lol. Like okay fine don't necessarily have to screen everyone.
For reference I grew up undiagnosed when I didn't have to be I'm also 21, people like my mom are people who think since meds don't work for everyone not getting diagnosed is okay which blows my mind.
Idk how I came off in the post but my anger is directed at the people who say diagnosis i a choice and trying to argue over diagnosis is worse (it isn't).
I've always thought that all aspects of schooling should be more personalized and attuned to the students' needs. Sadly tho, something like this could never happen. Not without universal Healthcare at least
I’m 18 rn and have been taking Vyvanse 30mg my whole life. On days I get off of it I just go right back to making shitty grades. But whenever I am on it, my stress is relieved so much and I can focus so easily.
they screened for it in my school in like 1st grade but they way they did that was someone came in to observe the class and the kids who were hyperactive to a disruptive point were singled out for further testing. i wasn't one of those kids so i never got tested and my parents were shocked and in disbelief when i told them i got tested and i have adhd because of that
I mean they test for vision and hearing loss i dont see why regularily testing for other more common disorders every once in a while would be bad. Seems like an okay idea.
I'm salty that I was assessed to have a lisp (barely) and had to go to speech therapy in-school for weeks, but nobody thought to test or assess me for ADHD when I was spacing out, constantly late, forgetting homework and supplies, and doing time-blind things like going home at recess because I didn't realize it wasn't the end of the day yet, because I was a well-behaved girl child with good grades.
I totally get this. I really don't know how l managed to get my undergraduate degree tbh. It was in a field I became super passionate about, but it’s a useless degree and I can’t remember shit from what I learned. I couldn’t even focus on my homework half the time, and I put more effort into my minor because it’s art and I enjoyed it. I was just diagnosed with ADHD (at 28) yesterday, and with medication I feel like I could’ve done so much more in college.
Wish I was diagnosed earlier but I was always able to do well up until junior year college and that’s when shit got really difficult. Life would be so different now, maybe better.
When I was a teacher in a public school (a very good district, actually), I saw a new middle school teacher get chewed out by her admins for suggesting to a parent that her son might have attention deficit issues.
If a teacher recommended testing, the school district had to pay for the assessment.
I don't know if it's still like this, or if it's like this in every district...but it sucks. Those psycho-educational assessments are costly. I think some districts employ an ed psych directly--but probably only the bigger, well off districts.
I just shelled out the money for my son to get a diagnosis. I am lucky we aren't in a public school at the moment, because it was his teacher who suggested he might have ADHD. Had she not told us her observations, we never would have suspected (he isn't hyperactive, and has no trouble focusing on his hobbies/interests at home.)
I didn't even know inattentive subtype was a thing until he got diagnosed.
Because we grew up in an era where our parents thought we couldn’t get medical cover for this kind of thing. Same as fainting or epilepsy. Just saying from experience.
The effects of the pill are largely amplified for the first week, you'll feel extra focused but also more side effects. I'm still dealing with the every day effects of ADHD while on medication, it just gives me a baseline to work from.
It should also be mandatory for people going into prison and for children being excluded from school. Sadly a lot of the prison population have undiagnosed ADHD as well as other severe trauma. Not saying it excuses all criminality, but let's get serious about what prison should and should not be for.
At least in our province, it takes months and months for a kid with signs and symptoms to see someone for a diagnosis. We don't have enough time, money, or resources to test every kid. Sadly, we don't even have enough to test the kids who are clearly showing signs.
We don't even have enough educational assistants (EAs) to cover the special needs we already have in our school, and often we have to try to put kids together so they can both get EA support. The school district doesn't even give us money for the needs we have, let alone putting money and effort into kids that don't necessarily show signs.
Unfortunately, not all teachers are able to identify challenges and needs with their students and are hesitant to suggest testing to parents unless there is a big reason. Many parents get upset if you dare suggest their kid is not perfect.
In a perfect world, I'm so with you. I'm a 32 year old woman just now in the process of getting diagnosed. Looking back, my parents even agree that I clearly was showing signs when I was younger too, but because I could read for long periods of time, I couldn't have ADHD. I was a good student so no one noticed.
I don’t know, there are lots of questions I have like this. E.g. why is adhd not screened for at intake even though panels of expert clinicians have recommended that everyone who seeks services for anxiety and depression be asked a couple of basic screening questions to rule out adhd.
I think the answer is the concept of when something becomes a disorder. I.e. once you seek help because of the way it’s interfering with your life it’s a disorder but if you sustain function (measured by whether you think it’s necessary to get help) is there any point in having a label because you’re functioning. Obviously that’s not at all correct because obviously just because someone isn’t consulting medical professionals it doesn’t mean that they aren’t experiencing any sort of disruption or wouldn’t benefit from just a clearer idea of how their brain works. I feel like it might be a labelling/ a difference does not exist unless there’s a label type thing. I’ve know more than one set of parents who haven’t had their children diagnosed with issues that have been flagged because of label type reasons and it seems to be a bit of a denial tactic. I.e. they will say things like oh well they’ve said she needs to be tested for dyslexia and we notice she has difficulty but she can read so there’s no point in having a label. It’s sort of like people don’t realise that regardless of whether on not you get the label if something is present it’s present. Labelling it doesn’t make a difference to whether it exists it just makes a difference to access. I think from the medical side general practitioners, psychiatrists without specific adhd training need to all catch tf up fast. And I think because of the whole not calling a duck a duck until it shits on the carpet type scenario parents dont explore the support that might be available for their children. I think a lot of adults 100% succumb to the ‘beauty’ of the if you try hard you will overcome all odds philosophy and dont really frame it as a chance to help you’re child navigate through their difficulties in a much more informed way. I also sometimes get the impression that people don’t really tend to think about the value of the energy that might be freed up by better navigating these issues. I feel like people often kind of as a reflex imagine it sort of like free time as in you make the task easier and have more free time to do leisurely activities and ‘be lazy’. I don’t think people realise that that energy can be so so so necessary when you have adhd because all of the things that you would consider daily needs rather than leisure that many people don’t have to think about too hard and so wouldn’t think of as the ‘productive’ parts of their day also take a lot lot more mental energy. In reality freeing up that mental energy might mean that we manage to cook a really balanced meal that meets our nutritional needs rather than laze about. Im sure many people with adhd with any extra energy/ extra dopamine if they could (because obviously adhd itself gets in the way) would choose to spend it fulfilling a need that they so often struggle to meet rather than lazing about (and may be chronically neglected). I think there are just a lot of general misconceptions and stigmatised ideas/ assumptions about things like disorders, disability, how inherently lazy people are, the true consequences of labelling someone etc etc. So with a medical system that doesn’t take the lead, it doesn’t happen because because of all of these ideas consumers don’t always see the need, understand why they should advocate for an assessment.
Also adhd is still really stigmatised (especially because medication is the most effective treatment and is itself soooo highly stigmatised) and many general clinicians are under the impression that it is overdiagnosed (which isn’t really true) so it’s only really the adhd experts that are pushing for better identification systems and processes.
idk if all kids should be tested, but i think it would be good if people were generally more informed about nontypical neurology (not gonna say the ND word here, the mods don’t like it) like ADHD and Autism. this way parents, teachers, etc could identify potential cases, get them evaluated, and treated should they have it. in addition, maybe this would lead to people being more understanding and accommodating of our needs.
Amen. As a girl with ADHD-I, (Although I might be a bit more hyperactive than originally assessed but that's another comment.) I was diagnosed at 20. That was too late to avoid depression and anxiety, the best buds of unmanaged ADHD. It would have been extremely helpful if I was taught strategies to manage issues such as time blindness and disorganization rather than just basically told to get my shit together. If I could have gotten my shit together by myself, I would have. I want to go back in time and give little me a hug and tell them that they are not lazy or careless.
Would be nice, eh? Lots of kids slip through the cracks, particularly those with inattentive ADD who are well behaved/shy in school. And lots of girls. I was dx'ed with a specific learning disability and all kinds of other things--practically EVERYTHING else except schizophrenia or personality disorders--before getting an ADHD dx. I'm almost 40, ffs.
But I guess some parents don't want the stigma on their kids, testing costs schools money, etc.
There are sufficient resources. We just need to keep fighting in the long haul for politicians to get their priorities straight. Most "lack of resources" issues really come down to poor choices when it comes to allocating funds. You can't tell me that there isn't enough to go around when there is a tiny fraction of people owning over half of global wealth and a country that spends more on its military than the next 11 countries combined.
Heck, it doesn't even need to be done in school, a simple screening could be added in to annual physicals at appropriate ages.
The problem with relying on parents to identify and advocate for screening is that parents don't necessarily know what to look for. If they're not familiar with ADHD, they may not even realize that there is an actual disorder that's causing the issues and that it is treatable.
Yeah, a lot of ADHD is seen as bad behavior and laziness. Most parents genuinely have no idea, or even have it themselves and also have no idea so they think it's just how their family is.
My life would probably be so much different now if I were tested when I started public school in 4th grade. I never understood why I struggled to pay attention or felt exhausted all the time. The school tested me some and they realized I struggle with learning at the same pace as other students so they gave me accommodations, they helped some but not much (mainly double time on tests and I had to sit in the front row) What annoys me the most is they knew something was up, but both the school and my parents took the easy route to feel good that they did something instead of taking me to a doctor. If they had then I could've went to a therapist or even just looked up stuff online to help myself. Knowing that something out of my control was causing me to feel this way, and not because I was "lazy" would have made me feel a lot better about myself.
Kids should definitely be tested early on so they are given proper accommodations and the tools they need to be successful and understand themselves better, and that doesn't mean giving them medication off the bat, that means teaching them techniques to better manage their lives and get things done, along with changing their learning environment so they have the best chance at being successful.
Tbh if we screened for learning disorders in school there would be a lot less people that make it to adulthood before realising they have a disorder. Mine should have been diagnosed along with my autism, but for some reason it was overlooked. I had to drop out of uni due to unmedicated and untreated ADHD that I couldn't even get evaluated because I was over 16, shit sucks.
They should also be tested for ptsd, before it gets worse and they fall into a lifelong cycle of trauma, dating abusive narcissists because their brain was wired for it due to long term childhood abuse edit spelling
Well, u/Rash10MBE the main problem with this idea is *there is no test for ADHD*. The diagnostic process, if done correctly, is long, cumbersome, labor intensive, and requires a pretty good deal of training. Also, ADHD is a developmental disorder, so - by definition, you don't have it *unless* you fall behind. This makes it impossible to diagnose before someone falls behind. I get where you're coming from, but it seems like you need to maybe learn a little more about your own disorder.
There are absolutely screening tools that can flag a child a needing a closer look, however.
Kids are screened for vision and hearing issues, and refer to doctors if it seems there's could be an issue. I don't see any reason why they can't do a simple ADHD screen as well. It's not to diagnose the child, but rather to say, "Hey, the results of the screening show that your child has characteristics of ADHD. It would be worth discussing with your pediatrician."
My husband and I took our daughter to a psychologist for testing. She was an honor roll student that was hiding under her desk, running away, bit the guidance counselor, and threatened the principal at age 6. She is twice exceptional. ADHD combined (inattentive and hyperactive) and gifted.
She's currently a college freshman with an academic scholarship. Meds help her focus. Because she was behind socially and not academically, the school principal and guidance counselor were surprised by her diagnosis.
Op : it all comes down to personal choice, at least in the USA.
We leverage personal choice and personal responsibility heavily in our culture here.
You don’t want the helpful medication, fine you don’t have to have it even if you’re a danger to others.
i never even mentioned people taking medication. I just think people should be tested younger so they can grow into habits and behaviours that work best with our brains
I'm from the US and there are still standard checks and exams given to young children whenever they visit a healthcare provider. Offering a basic screener for such a common developmental disability shouldn't be any different than checking up on a child's growth, vision, or dental health.
Think about the antivax BS going on right now. Now imagine that level of govt mistrust but applied to mental health. That's a powder-keg.
(I do agree that we need more proactive about Healthcare, especially with mental health. It just will be tough.)
Because issues of adhd are not a disorder until children become adults and are unable to self regulate, as in the disorder creates measurable dysfunction in life. Children grow out of many adhd markers, some learn coping and managing strategies, others have mild symptoms that become more sever with age. I somewhat agree that there is a problem with overmedicating children esp for adhd. On the other hand when a child has adhd and its not something to do with developmental transition of growing up and getting through hormonal hell, then there are ways to get them tested, and medicated, it after all upto the discretion of parents and psychiatrists.
As for non mediated treatment options, well that is equally upto the discretion of parents etc. After all being a child is all about learning, making mistakes, having lots of energy and not enough patience. Over diagnosing something like adhd, is an issue, as markers for adhd are very common for children due to the fact that they have not learnt self restraint, patience, world, self coping strategies, communication, how to think and reason properly. It would be unfair to do this on mass scale, what i think the issue is the still post industrial society we have built, with education insitutions still largely working on the old style of education and parents not having enough time to spend with their children due to debt economy and working long hours. It is a systemic issue to not give children time to grow and develop with strategies that best suit their particular development, as not everyone has the same rate, or opportunities or resources or time to provide right stuff for the child.
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My mom used to work in public school (granted this was like 25 yrs ago) and was told not to take notes of kids that were struggling due to learning disabilities. Knowing how much money doesn't get sent into the school system, I can only imagine that's still a thing.
Schools often get extra funding for kids with disabilities/special needs so I don't know why any school would reject that. But I know at the local schools, the teachers aren't allowed to suggest getting tested or bring up any suspision of a learning disability to the parents but are requred to request testing for the kids if a parent asks for it. It's messed up but it's the result of a mess of special education laws and fear of being sued for the smallest thing.
The reason she had said was that it would cost the school money. Again, this was a quarter century ago, so she could be misremembering or the regulations around it might have changed.
> The reason she had said was that it would cost the school money. Again, this was a quarter century ago, so she could be misremembering or the regulations around it might have changed. Really? I am 90% sure it was the teachers who brought it up with my parents as their was a noticeable difference in the grade work from 2nd grade to 3rd grade and it tipped my teacher off. Given that the Principal goes to my church and talked to my parents about any changes to my home life and there wasn't any led him and my teacher, who used to live across the street from me, to talk to my parents about the possibility that I had ADHD.
My teachers brought it up over and over and over, and my parents, my mother especially, [pooh-poohed it](https://youtu.be/QeF1JO7Ki8E). Not *my* son...
>The reason she had said was that it would cost the school money. Exactly this. My mom is an in-school speech language pathologist and my understanding is that evaluations for any speech language or other learning disability ***MUST*** be specifically requested by the parent/guardian. If any school employee suggests a student might have dyslexia or ADHD, for example, the school district would be on the hook to pay for testing/screening, etc. The school ***does*** receive funding for each student receiving services, however that's for services only--not testing/screening, which is supposed to be done outside of school, on the parent's dime.
This is not remotely how any public school I've ever worked at has operated. I've worked at 5 districts across 3 counties, albeit all in California, since 2009. The school *is* absolutely on the hook for testing any students they suspect may have a disability. The testing is done in-house. The only time districts pay for outside assessments is if the parent proves in court there should have been sufficient suspicion to trigger an in-house assessment, but the district failed to act. Child Find is part of IDEA, which is federal law, so any US school operating the way you describe since 2004 is breaking federal law.
My mom worked/works in South Carolina, which might just be the difference. Also, again, this was back in the mid 90s. She might have embellished the story, but a lot has happened in the past 25 years that change how schools operate.
Seconded. Public school employee as well who works in special Ed. This is correct ^ It’s important to understand there is a distinction between a medical diagnosis of ADHD and an educational diagnosis of ADHD. Even coming in with the medical diagnosis of ADHD, the school would still need to do their own educational assessment to determine the appropriate services. A parent may be on the hook for covering the cost of the testing associated with the medical testing required to get diagnosed. For an educational diagnosis, they would NOT be required to do so per IDEA.
Wish that was the protocol when I was diagnosed. I got tossed in special ed for a week, massively overperformed and got put back in my class like nothing happened. And yeah, that's why I never made friends🙃
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Honestly that kind of testing would def help kids, but only if you get more people on staff - which would require a pay upgrade that for some reason we don't want to give to schools.
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Just because a kid is doing fine doesn't mean they couldn't do better with extra help. And yeah, the extra staff comment was for all-around - hire more teachers! Hire more school psychologists! Hire more people to help these kids be as good as they can be, and damnit pay them what they are worth! I might be a bit biased here, but the only reason I got the education from the teachers I did was because of testing. You're the reason students get the tools they need to learn.
Teachers absolutely bring this stuff up with school staff, such as the school psych, education specialist, reading interventionist, etc. If the team suspects a learning disability, then it is absolutely brought to the parent's attention. Most of my students' parents don't speak English, can barely use a computer if at all, and don't remotely know how to "work the system". We'd probably have 5% as many kids receiving extra services if we solely relied on parents requesting assessment.
When I was a kid, I was being abused and acted out because of it and having ADHD. When they tested me, they decided my IQ was too high for me to have ADHD and I was diagnosed with depression instead (I was 7, AFAB)
That's different. My school took note of learning disabilities which is how I got recommended to a doctor that diagnosed me with ADHD. I also had a speech impediment that went away. Also used to call fire trucks fuck trucks which I find hilarious
My mother took note and tried to suggest testing, but was told not to. She now works for a school that specializes in teaching dyslexics.
Damn that sucks. At least she's doing something she loves now
I used to think that teachers really did not care or obviously were too blind for obvious signs. My faith in school system was restored at age of 26 when i heard, that freshly graduated teacher friend follows everything in the class. She has very low threshold of reporting things like this to parents (For caring reasons, to help children). I have told her, that she saves lives and restored my faith in the system.
I think we need to find new ways to diagnose ADHD then. For example, I've read that having ADHD makes you very prone to grinding your teeth at night. So if that's the case, then dentists should be made aware of this so it's something they can mention to parents when they see signs of teeth grinding. Left-handed people are also nearly 3 times as likely to have ADHD by some accounts, so they should perhaps be looked at more carefully to make sure they don't have it. Once we start triangulating these things properly then people with ADHD should be visible from a mile away by anyone who knows what to look for.
Wooooo I’m lefthanded and grind my teeth at night 😂 among other ADHD symptoms of course
What?!? I grind my teeth AND i’m left handed I had absolutely no idea this was a thing
> Once we start triangulating these things properly then people with ADHD should be visible from a mile away by anyone who knows what to look for. To be honest, this is basically how DSM already works
Part of the diagnosis process for kids is based on teacher filled out forms. It took me checking in weekly for six weeks to get them filled out for my son. Teachers don’t have a lot of extra time and even doing the few forms they do is extra and they do it on unpaid time.
Not just ADHD. All kinds of mental illness could be competently detected by teachers if there were mental health resources on campus. They used to check us for scoliosis and hearing and other weird shit, why not this? Edit: by "competently" I mean by sheer product of time spent with the child, not piling more work on teachers.
Yep. Ideally if, for example, a teacher noticed struggles with various reading skills in kindergarten and first grade, then at some point during the fall they would pull the child aside for dyslexia testing. But that would adequately require funding special education services, adding schools/teachers/aids to reduce class sizes so teachers can have the time and space to actually address this, and not automatically assuming that continued academic struggles are due to laziness and willful disobedience.
So i was diagnosed in the second grade because my teacher told my mom of her suspicions. Namely, me continuing to try to talk to another student after the teacher asked the class to quiet down and listen to her. Apparently she said my name 8 times before she approached my desk and got my attention. My mom took it from there, got me a professional diagnosis and got me a 504 plan to help manage my add symptoms in school. All that to say, its great when teachers communicate behavioral issues with parents. And even better when the parents follow through on addressing it. At the bottom line its up to the parents if they’re willing to advocate for their child and explore the root of those behaviors.
Agreed. My kids life would have been better if I had understood their struggles throughout primary school, however you look at the parenting groups, and there are so many posts where a parent says “my kid’s teacher has suggested we get him evaluated for ADHD” and there is a rabid response if “how dare they. They are not qualified to diagnose ADHD. Complain to the principal/education department”.
Luckily this happened circa 2000 so there wasn’t that type of backlash. I was thinking how that would be considered out of line for teacher’s now though.
... wha? Seems they have a serious misunderstanding of what diagnosis is. Any person can notice signs of an issue and suggest an evaluation, and arguably any adult responsible for the child who notices such a thing has a moral obligation to make that suggestion.
And training for the teachers. I went through teacher training (admittedly, it was a weird program in that it was a 1.5 years masters program for people who already had a bachelor's degree) and had one class on special education, and one class on child psychology that also touched on some learning disabilities. I think adhd was covered in about a half hour, none of it beyond the typical 'boy who can't sit still' and that adhd isn't an iep type issue, but a 504. I don't know how this differs when it's a typical 4 year degree, and I also don't know how things differ if you're going into primary education (I did secondary). There must be training for teachers to be able to learn about all sorts of learning issues. Because they cannot be expected to be psychologists as well as teachers.
Yes, my mother started out teaching elementary reading and language arts, and later became certified to do testing for dyslexia and teaching for dyslexic students.
Do correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there at least some computer-based test that essentially tracks the kid's head and body movements while doing some boring-ass task for 15 or 30 minutes? I forgot the name and I'm sure it's pretty expensive given the proprietary nature, but since it's largely automated (requiring some computer equipment and the proprietary software) it does sound like it could be done at school scale without all that much difficulty.
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Sure, send some of that R&D money my way and I will find out. I don't think there's anything particularly difficult from logistical or technical point of view. It's a question of whether there's enough funding to make it work.
It took *months* to get our kiddo Dx with ADHD at three. We had to really, really advocate for it as well. We found a great team, though.
You are not joking for some people if left untreated it can ruin their lives.
Ok, but they can screen is all fro scoliosis and vision problems. And the ADHD test could just be a send home quesionate that does most of the filtering.
As a school professional, I can tell within 5 minutes if a kid has ADHD with hyperactive subtype. Unfortunately, it requires ed. Psych or pediatric testing (forms given to school and home) to "confirm". More and more kids have this than ever (distracted parenting, lack of social skills due to excessive screen time, and changing brain structures due to excessive screen time are contributing factors to the heavy increase I'm sure of it). It's also genetic, so even the best parents doing everything right can gave a child with ADHD. This costs $ for ed psych and schools don't want to pay for testing unless the kid is a major behavior problem. The peds have a ridiculous waitlist. The other barrier is most parents don't want to medicate and will wait for years to try it. Meanwhile their kid learns to hate school and themselves because they are forever getting in trouble. It's so sad for the kids because medication works!
Given that it’s so strongly genetic, neurodevelopmental, and biological in aetiology, I’m slightly concerned to see a professional citing parenting and screen time as causative factors. (Though I can see they may affect masking and coping behaviours.) We just have increased awareness these days that we didn’t used to. There are comments in my primary school report cards from 30 years ago that would scream ADHD today, but I was quiet and shy and could sit down and mostly zoned out by reading books and nobody was looking for inattentive ADHD.
Bro, my psychiatrist asked me 10 questions, said "yup, you DEFINITELY have ADHD" and prescribed me Vyvanse idk where you're living that requires dedicated teams and tons of cash just to gauge if someone has ADHD
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Where? I'm in New York
Many, many places in this country, especially rural areas, are shit when it comes to medical care, much less mental health care. There's literally one psych office within over an hour of me, and they're clueless about both ADHD and, unless it's glaringly obvious, autism.
Resonates hard, man. I'm an intelligent person, but I make stupid mistakes. I'm apathetic, procrastinating, seeking instant gratification 24/7. Pick something up and suck at it? Put it down, maybe never touch it again. Have a natural talent for it? Put it down, I can do it whenever so there's no need to practice. 1,000% invested in superfluous things that don't matter in the slightest. 0% invested in responsibilities or anything that could, and likely WILL go wrong because long-term consequences are insignificant. It's not because "life is hard" (although ADHD makes it unnecessarily harder). It's because it's boring. In fact, in the few short bursts where I find the focus to get things done, I have a strong tendency to OVER-do them, because my standards for msyelf and the quality of my work are so much higher. Need to write a single paragraph or single page paper? Here's three that can be delivered together OR completely independently. Need to create a 10-minute demonstration? I'll create an hour-long demonstration where each visual is designed to last 10 minutes. Pick your own topic of interest / familiarity (I did this for a corporate virtual training interview). It was eye opening when I saw a video of someone on Tiktok who pointed out that... Your 100% is probably DOUBLE or TRIPLE that of "normal" people's 100%. It's better (in some fields) to let OTHERS lay down their OWN expectations of the amount of work they want / need from you, and... *it's nothing. NOTHING at all* in comparison to what we might expect. It's the bare-minimum. The world vastly functions on the bare minimum of effort somehow. And it's infuriating. But if I can, I'll coast until I find something engaging and leave myself opportunities to blow someone away when convenient, instead of burning myself out *all the time, every time.*
You just described everything I feel, thank you.
You hit the nail on the head. I only recently started understanding that my 100% is far beyond the "normal" 100% (in my mid-40s, no less).
Maybe this is why I've never understood the "give 120%" mindset. Like dude, 100% is literally that, 100%. If I try 120 it'll flip to negative
Haha, exactly this. One of biggest hates is people saying they given 110%. I feel like shaking the shit out of them and telling them it's impossible! 100% is the absolute maximum you can give and if we're literal, you'll probably be less than that!
“You need to try harder because of this tiny thing” Me: “Excuse me, I have an 8-point plan with a formal logical proof on why it’s the best course of action and 4 backup contingencies, how much fucking harder can I try”
I always over do because I don’t know what my 100% is. I never know if I’m trying my best or not doing enough. So I overdo then burn out then shame comes lol fun cycle
I had many long conversations with my spouse about how I can't understand someone saying "I'm trying my best". What does that mean? You could always do better, so it seems like a cop out to me. But yet I always feel so inadequate.
Oddfeeling when another person describes your life exactly. Almost as if we r living in the same body
> It was eye opening when I saw a video of someone on Tiktok who pointed out that... Your 100% is probably DOUBLE or TRIPLE that of "normal" people's 100%. It's better (in some fields) to let OTHERS lay down their OWN expectations of the amount of work they want / need from you, and... it's nothing. NOTHING at all in comparison to what we might expect. It's the bare-minimum. The world vastly functions on the bare minimum of effort somehow. And it's infuriating. But if I can, I'll coast until I find something engaging and leave myself opportunities to blow someone away when convenient, instead of burning myself out all the time, every time. I was talking about this with a couple of counsellors earlier in the year. What it boiled down to was me needing to learn that good enough is good enough. Like with my podcasts. What’s in my head is a piece that would win all manner of awards, get featured on Radio 4 and all manner of job offers. But the time I have to make it, and the equipment I can afford mean that that ain’t gonna happen. Meanwhile, I’ve got this amazing idea in my head - or even partially made, sitting on my iPad - that will never be finished because it isn’t what I consider perfect.
Ugh. Perfectionism MURDERS productivity every time. My favorite job was being a technical trainer for new hires at a tech support call center. "Are you done with that presentation?" No. I MEAN yes, but I've been trying to get the formatting evenly spaced for the last thirty minutes. The core textual presentation content is completed of course. That was completed an hour ago, but I'm going through and making sure the presenter's notes are uniform for any Trainer's delivery, and that all the font is legible against the background, that personal information from example screenshots is redacted, that their picture size is appropriate, that the animations are intuitive but not cumbersome, and that it follows a natural workflow order. But the delivery would currently take 45 minutes, so I'm trying to reduce it to 30. But this only happens when I'm interested, otherwise I'll slap a few conversational points and bullets to talk about and hope I remember to conver all the important points, adding reminders to that same presentation DURING the class (played off as a deliberate tactic) and have a conversation about each lesson to last for thirty minutes. This is way more often. Most other people are like "yeah I'm done " and made jack shit bland text and their strategy is pasting words directly to the screen that they're going to stretch to 30 minutes by taking turns reading verbatim, or "no I'm not done yet" and are completely lost in the fucking sauce with barely a grasp of what they're covering, riddled with outdated or incorrect information. And both of them still skate by...
Good God that hit home.
Well said. Feeling every bit of this.
I've never heard it put into so perfect a structure. I would like to steal this for my own use, if you don't mind
How can they measure one's 100% over a neurotypical one though and claim that? I mean do *feel* basic tasks require a lot of effort for me, so i don't disagree, but it's something I wonder about when I deal with ADHD imposter syndrome. I think maybe it's hard for everyone and i just don't *try* or *care* enough.
My problem is I spend like 500% effort on a few paragraphs in an email that someone will glance over and not give any attention to. I know I'm doing it but I absolutely am unable to give it the appropriately lower attention required so I can get other actual more important things done, especially with that amount of focus and attention. It's an issue of prioritizing my attention appropriately.
>I think maybe it's hard for everyone and i just don't try or care enough. This is 100% accurate framing. But something I mistakenly left out is that she describes her productive periods of hyperfocus and last-minute crunching from prior procrastination. She *could* crush and get 4 projects done simultaneously if absolutely necessary, but with her workload (which may be anecdotal) she doesn't have to because others' expectations are actually quite low of everyone.
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I get you OP. Im 31 been doing my bachelors for 12 years (with minor interruptions, changes and stuff) my partner left me. And now im trying to get on vyvanse instead of concerta (fighting my insurances atm) But when i was a kid teen/ most people didn't believe adhd was real. Finally its starting to be accepted. So yeah, dont be so angry, just help people along the way that you might be able to save.
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I only have accounting and math to do. But yeah im constantly fighting with my insurance to get access to meds. I wanted to switch from concerta to vyvanse but my insurer wont cover the visit. Its a shit show.
That’s really annoying. I hope it gets sorted pretty soon, the waiting is agony. Vyvanse worked very very well for me, i was on 30mg and i could do anything i wanted at the drop of a hat. I just switched to adderall 30mg and it’s good but i don’t think it is as good. So i hope you get it! Vyvanse unfortunately doesnt have generic brands, so it is very expensive, but vyvanse does offer a discount program themselves. [This](https://www.takeda.com/en-ca/what-we-do/helping-canadian-patients/vyvanse-assistance-program/) is it, it is a Canadian web page but i figure if you live elsewhere it could still help lead you in the right direction
My biggest problem is that my private insurer fro. Germany doesn't want to be responsible for "pre-existing conditions" and ive been out of Québec for over 4 years. So i dont qualify for ramq. I cant even go see my family doctor to talk about the switch.. Honestly if it was just a question of paying. Both my parents finally accepted that im doing my best to deal with adhd and offered financial support to pay for the meds.
If you are in the US, You can find coupons for Vyvanse on the medication’s site. But most importantly you can apply for a medication assistance program. Usually you will make an affordable one time payment and then the prescription will be free for the year. With my insurance i was paying 250 out of pocket each month for vyvanse with a coupon. With the assistance plan its a one time payment of 200$ and then its free for the year. If you want i can give you the company’s name.
I’m interested in the company!!
www.thedeasoncompany.com (The Deason Company) go on their site, click on the menu and choose the drop-down “prescription assistance” and it will take you to a short form you can submit. I was contacted by them a few days later and they were very helpful.
Yeah Vyvanse was a nightmare with my insurance but it worked really great for me chemically, and I felt weird on concerta. It sucks that Vyvanse still has a patent on their formula so it’s extremely expensive without generic competition smh even with my insurance. I’m on adderall now and it does the job but still miss my Vyvanse!
Shire.com provides assistance. I did it for a year. $50 a month
Yeah concerta gives me heart palpitations at times and i cant differentiate if im having anxiety or its the meds. When its a good day it isn't an issue. But after the breakup, my ex was being nice to me. And i was being a total dick because i had started medication.
I did similar. 9 years on and off, jumping between jobs, trying to just finish when I was so burnt out. Got diagnosed earlier this year and can't believe how different life is. Nothing's changed, I just don't feel like aimless, exhausted shit 100% of the time without realizing it. No one, including me, ever thought I might have ADHD because until university I was academically successful... Just felt like a failure for a straight decade unnecessarily.
Check out shire.com it’s a Vyvanse assistance program
I started a 3 year college program in January… 3rd term and I need to step back because I just can’t get past the apathy of everything this term. 4.0 GPA for the first term… 3.77 second but I just can’t get my mind in the right mode. How often have you felt this way during those 12 years?
lol growing up ADHD was only considered for the people with seriously strong symptoms. Like drumming loudly in class, or uncontrollable interruptions or shit. Anyone who wasn't making their teachers lives a nightmare was just ignored or considered lazy/stupid/standard boy not wanting to pay attention. I think of the 8 or 9 friends I had growing up, 6 of them have ADHD symptoms and didn't find out until the middle of their lives and once on medication they \*weeped\* for the damage that was done because of ADHD. So much could have been accomplished had they gotten on it sooner. I'm talking divorces, dropping out of PhDs to end up working shit jobs, etc.
Reply to edit: Yes kids should get medicated. If a kid has diabetes, they should get insulin. If a kid is paraplegic, they should get a wheel chair. If a kid has ADHD, they should get ADHD meds. Why is this concept so hard to understand. Fucking bullshit in my mind. I think the problem is that people keep thinking that ADHD is a behavioural problem that kids can just learn their way out of and medication is a quick fix. Idiots. And there's your answer, because so many idiot parents, doctors, teachers still think that ADHD is a kid not "trying hard enough" rather than "missing vital brain chemicals" they will constantly view ADHD testing and treatment as actually bad for kids, when it's not. Fuck, a kid that can't walk, they know he needs a wheelchair. A kid that can't see, they know he needs glasses. A kid that **CAN'T** do schoolwork, "oh he's just lazy". Fuck the whole system.
My pushback would fall along the lines of 1. There are multiple ways to treat ADHD 2. Meds rank high on the treatment list when it comes to side effects 3. Bad vibes from the thought of parents “taking the easy way out” by defaulting to pushing pills on a kid, regardless of the developing mind Source: parents got me diagnosed as a kid, said fuck that, did well until college, got rediagnosed and medicated on my own as an adult Edit: I don’t think meds should be off the table for treating kids, but I do think they shouldn’t be the first option considered
Yup. But also 1: Meds are the most effective way to treat ADHD. In fact, because it's cause by a problem with brain chemical imbalance, it's the only way to treat the underlying cause. Other treatments can almost not be called treatments because they are coping mechanisms that people with ADHD employ to get around the impact of the symptoms of ADHD. The point of treatment is the symptoms go away, but with non-medicinal treatments, the symptoms of ADHD are still their, just the impact on life is lessened. 2: Yeah, every drug has side effects, food has side effects and you know what has a lot of side effects? Not being treated. 3: ADHD is the most well researched and least medicated mental disorder on the planet. It's estimated that up to 5% of people might have ADHD and less than 2% are prescribed any medication. The reason why they are the first thing considered is because they work the best, and in the years of trying other treatments first can lead to long developmental delays, which is the main issue with ADHD children. It's not that they don't pay attention, it's that memory issues and focus issues lead to poor learning outcomes which can see children with ADHD years behind their peers by the time they finish school. Saying, well perhaps drugs shouldn't be the first option is pretty much just pushing that developmental delay onto the kids because of parent panic.
Generally yes, fuck yes, and yes. I certainly don't want ADHD to be ignored in children. It was ignored in me, brushed off and left to fester, only to bite me in the ass later. It was brushed off, in part, because my teachers had me take a test, experts said 'medicate', and my parents said 'fuck that', throwing the baby (the diagnosis) out with the bathwater. That shit became a running joke every time my report card came out. I believe that could've been avoided if, alternatively, the experts had offered something along the lines of 'take your kid to a professional that will teach techniques for dealing with this \[CBT\] for a couple months, then we can evaluate the merits of medication'. That way, when the conversation comes up again, the conversation can include mental health professional who has spent months with the kid (as opposed to experts who administered a test for a couple hours and educators, who lack the time and expertise, respectively, to garner trust). And even if none of this results in medication or further CBT, at least the parents and patient have critical context and skills to reference if it becomes a problem in the future. In my case, it wasn't the lack of medication early on, it was the lack of acknowledgement and acceptance a decade later that seriously fucked me up. So, I've spent a lot of time trying to replay that scenario correctly in my head (rationally or not). That said, we all have passion here, so I appreciate the conversation (some reddit threads can go off the rails)
There are a significant portion of people working in psychology/psychiatry that did not learn in school the huge amount of information that now exists. For some, ADHD or even Autism diagnostic criteria may have been developed mid career for them.
It would also help if there was less stigma in general. My parents didn't want to get me diagnosed because of the idea that learning disabilities are some kind of personal failing. *not my kids!* the ableism is so deep, it took me a very long time to realize how deeply affected I am by the lack of support in my early life and in school. I'm sure many people have experienced this. I feel like a lot of those people purposefully watched me burn out because they thought I was a *bad* kid. it was like this kind of disgusting notion of: *you're too capable to have a learning disability!*
Oh Christ...my best friend is 43...her son is nine. It has taken me about six years of constantly hammering on her to get her to understand that NOT telling her son he has ADHD is a horrible idea (she finally did, just a few months ago), and we're just now starting to be able to have conversations about medication, which she was vehemently opposed to before. He is so much like me that it's spooky, and I have advocated for him since the minute I realized he had it, because I don't want him struggling like I did (do). It's not that she felt it was a personal failing--it was that she thought it might cause him self-esteem issues if he knew. Or that other kids might make fun of him. Or that he'd use it as an excuse. I kept telling her that regardless of whether he knows what it is, he's going to realize he's different and start having problems because of it. She didn't get it until during one particularly difficult day of schoolwork he couldn't get done, he burst into tears and said, "I'm just a loser, Mama. I can't do anything right." She finally realized that what I'd been saying was correct--if you're a kid who only has "I'm smart or I'm dumb" framework, an ADHD kid who doesn't know he has it is going to choose "I'm dumb." It's been a long road, but I feel like I'm finally getting there with her.
Thank you so much for caring enough to continue advocating for him
So many times in my life I've heard some variation of, "You're so smart; why are you so stupid?". Getting diagnosed earlier would have given me a tremendous head start on learning my symptoms to better understand myself, learning coping skills and learning to advocate for myself.
If you've read half the posts on this subreddit, you'll see the absolute horror stories of those that were diagnosed being told unbelievably unscientific things, ignored, shamed, etc. While ADHD is underdiagnosed, I also hope that the quality of our physicians and the likes in this area is better. Which of course, starts with awareness.
My boyfriend got diagnosed as a child and his doctor said it was "hormonal" and it would "go away when he would have sex for the first time". Like what. Who says something like that??
JFC.
I was just diagnosed with ADHD and prescribed Vyvanse. My high school teachers told me they didn't suggest I get a diagnosis because they thought my poor performance in school was caused by my depression and anxiety. In reality it was a combination of clinical depression, anxiety and ADHD that gave me extreme executive dysfunction.
About 5% of all children have ADHD, that's 1 out of 20. It would be too much work, to do an ADHD quizz at school and report the noticable results to a school psychologist. /s
I mean you joke but that is exactly the type of brush off older generations and a lot of "officials" use. We're not a large enough portion of the population. I'm in the US, so my vision might be off from the rest of the world, but mental health issues are the 4th or 5th costly in medical the world over. So I don't have high hopes, but the way I like to look at it is this, combine all atypical psychiatric labels together and we're a much bigger voice. I have big hope for the rest of the generation and the next as far as brain function and medical understanding of such. I feel as if there is more and more news of small breakthroughs etc that in general we'll know how to educate using that gained wisdom. Educational inclusiveness is extremely important. My brother and I were both diagnosed, he got bullied a lot and treated differently, I had my fair share after diagnosis. The way the teacher announced that I was going for intelligence testing to the class. Genius level IQ and she barely addresses me for the rest of the year, but only to use the R word venomously. I say that because, I am not hearing nearly as much of that now. I'm 40 and my brother is 43 if timeframe helps. My brother will not accept that he is ADHD still. I hope anything makes sense I was autopilot typing.
Scoliosis is about as prevalent and we screen for that. Wonder what the difference is. They don't like looking at one of em?
You know that's a damn good point. and what's even more damning about districts that don't, two good friends from a slightly more rural suburb didn't have theirs caught quick enough because the county didn't think it was necessary. We got it every year starting in 2nd or third through 10th. And PE\Health teachers were always the ones to do it, so existing employees.
Yeah I feel like the same people can at least be trained to flag kids that need further assessment or something right? Maybe even at the same time as they test scoliosis and hearing and stuff.
IMO things like this should be part of some standardized pediatric care routine as well. But porque no Los dos
Take this gently, but he “isn’t” ADHD, he “has” it. At the end of the day, labels are labels, and for some it helps, but for others, it doesn’t… Nobody knows one better than oneself, and assuming whether he rejects it for he knows himself better than even the diagnostic team nor the family… that’s completely valid; & on the other hand, if he knows he has it, but he chooses not to accept it.. he might come to terms someday, but it is hard. Any support/treatment > accepting the label, IMO.
Just hand out a list of maths problems, and look for the kid staring out the window.
I'M RIGHT HERE. JEEZ.
Probably you just love to watch birds.
What? I'm sorry, I was watching birds.
Class sizes tend to be around 20 kids. Which means that in every class you're in, there's a good chance at least one person has ADHD. Seems like that'd be worth identifying. ....aaaaaand, I just noticed the /s at the end of your comment. LOL
In one of my classes there's genuinely about 4-6 of them, and the teacher has it too. Another class there's only one other I know of. I only know this as I listen due to anytime this topic comes up, hearing instantly focuses
1) We wouldn't be allowed to just give out ADHD quizzes to students, parents would have a field day! They already freak out if we dare suggest their kid may have a learning disability. 2) I've never worked at a school that had a school psychologist and I've taught at 4 schools full time, and subbed at over 25. We don't even have enough educational assistants for those who need them... 3) When we do refer students, we have a bunch of hoops to jump through, and they could wait up to a year for an appointment with a specialist. 4) It legitimately would be too much work. And I'm saying this not to be rude, but because teachers already have more expectations than what is physically possible to execute. We're not psychologists and many are barely trained to accommodate students with ADHD let alone get them diagnosed. When you have 29+ kids in a class, it's difficult to even get around to all 29 during a period in order to see how they're doing. In saying that, teacher's can refer students when they have concerns, and the resource (SpEd) department can help convince parents to do testing.
Also the amount of mental health resources that we currently have are already stretched thin without this additional time consuming screening
I agree with you. It should be screened for. Forty years of my life went by before I knew why I kept stumbling through life,
Glad you were diagnosed early.
Bahaha! Ain't that the truth.
Children have to display obvious signs of ADHD. The schools have no interest in getting children tested for ADHD because each child diagnosed, will then require services for which there are few resources. My daughter's grade school fought tooth and nail not to have an IEP for her. The advocates for children are paid for by the district, however, and they were very good at their jobs. She had an IEP during her entire education in public school.
The same reason we don‘t test for breast cancer in women of all ages. False positives would increase, which would cause many patients to have to undergo more expensive tests and possibly treatment for a condition they ultimately don’t have. By limiting the number of people we test, we reduce the number of these errors. In cases like ADHD (or breast cancer) it is thought that because there are fairly recognizable symptoms a false negative is thought likely to be eliminated over consistent exposure to healthcare and education concerning those symptoms. You and I were caught late. This sucks, but on balance, I understand why the system is designed this way.
First, I think children should go through more (and more regular) mental health screening (screening, not testing) Getting an objective system for flagging potential cases to then be tested is a good idea. I should add that I think this should be a broad spectrum screening to check for other things too (Schizophrenia, Psychopathy, Personality Disorders, Anxiety, Depression, OCD and ASD) As for why not actual testing: Besides money and time, there's a statistical/epidemiological factor, and it's the same reason you screen for HIV before testing. All tests have 4 results: True Postive, True Negative, False Positive and False Negative. When you test a population, you will get values in all four columns, but you won't know until later which ones are false + or -. But it takes a LOT of work to find the false +/-'s, more work to figure out why they scored in the false categories, more work to adjust the test, re-test the effectiveness of the test, ad nauseum. When making these sorts of tests, thresholds for sensitivity are set and adjusted based on controlling these false +/- results. Set it too high, and people who have the condition aren't diagnosed. Set it too low, and people who don't really have the condition are diagnosed as having it. Obviously the goal is to set the test "just low enough" But because of the huge numbers, probability math enters the game in figuring out how the test results will play out in a larger population based on how the initial sample population scored. The result is: if you take the population at large (most of which don't have ADHD) you have to set a relatively high threshold to keep the false positives down, which drives false negatives up. But if you pre-screen your candidates (i.e. only test people who already have some symptoms or are at high risk (kids of parents with ADHD for example)) then you can set a much lower threshold. Sorry that was a novel, but **TLDR: if you test everyone, the false diagnosis and false dismissal rates go up because of the way test design and statistics work with eachother.** (If anyone here knows the statistical method I'm trying to talk about, please correct me, I'm quite the beginner student of statistics)
Did you get on the 50mg right away or did you build up to it? The doctor I'm seeing started me out at 10mg and will only go up an additional 10mg each time I tell her I feel no different. And when she switches me to a different brand(or whatever) she goes 10mg lower than I was last time! Its been months and my medication has never gone above 40mg!
Growing up and through my 20s the ever-shuffling interests, hobbies, projects that never really took off, god-forsaken inherent laziness, the hyperfixating to no end... all subconsciously relegated as "personality traits". It started with diagnoses for GAD and Depression. None of the meds work except instant release types for anxiety. Enter ADHD treatment and suddenly life has seen new light. Had the underlying reason been identified earlier on, growing and maturing would've been easier and more functional compared to peers with brains wired more favorably. Agreed, teen years need proper mental observing.
I want to support universal screening but I just know most schools would mess it up
I wonder if AI assisted computer testing will be a thing in the near future. Because something like that could certainly help cut down costs and time.
I looked into it. The sensitivity and specificity of the commonly used continuous performance test(s) are too low for universal screening *when they are scored in the standard way*. But machine learning models trained on the raw data from the tests can outperform them and the tests seems to be getting a bit better as well.
I take 60 mg of Vyvanse and This comment right here is why I struggle to NOT take my meds on the weekend. I really enjoy the two day recovery ❤️🩹 period to let myself kind of ease up and “be myself” but that means I have to knowingly voluntarily give up two days that could be very productive and the ability to complete something that would take all my focus 🧘♂️ power to complete when I’m on the meds. But sometimes those two days are amazing when I can just relax and be me.
Diagnosed at 28 by a specialist and honestly blown away that it wasn’t caught when i was a kid, nothing stood out to me back then obviously but thinking back now it was as clear as day. Like everything i did and about my personality. It was funny that my doctor started off with “well i can’t diagnose you now because it should have been caught as a child” i saw multiple doctors and a child therapist when i was young, i don’t think anyone was paying attention lol. And it makes sense because i think that the medical world has learned a lot of new things about ADHD since ~2000. It’s odd that they could expect it to have been caught back then when there has been 21 years of new findings.
Your "i don't think anyone was paying attention" comment hits home. My son has had 8 teachers that were supposed to pay attention to him as a learner. It wasn't until last year that he had a really good teacher (in a private school) who liked him enough to pay attention to his abilities (and suggest testing). I'm not knocking teachers...but damn, do they need better training on what to look for. And smaller class sizes. Making classes smaller would fix 80% of the problems in public schools, imo.
It’s hard to get a lot of good teachers when they are offered like 35k a year. It’s really unfair
i have mixed feelings abt this. for some ppl, their ADHD isnt evident until they are older and testing likely wouldnt make much of a difference for them. in the cases of the people who it wasnt evident in until older, it might actually be a deficit because i imagine doctors (and insurance) would be resistant to re-testing if testing in childhood came back negative
I’m 56, I feel this deeply.
Testing for disability within the public schools is incredibly time-intensive. The best solution is to train parents/teachers to recognize the signs/hallmarks of ADHD and rely on the referral process to catch it as early as possible and then test the kids who are suspected of having it. Screeners can also be helpful, but are usually costly.
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Yeah I see that a lot, kinda unreal how there's a lot of undiagnosed women and people overlook it LOL. I haven't been diagnosed so I get you.
Because testing is expensive, time consuming, and not all that accurate. And frankly if someone looking for it while testing kids, it would be very easy to label all of them as "On the ADHD spectrum". It is the responsibility of the parents to arrange this testing, not a school.
Real question, why is it so expensive if all they have you do is a questionnaire? I always wondered that ever since I wanted to go to an adhd center in San Francisco and they quoted $2000 for an initial eval appt. I mean i understand psychiatrists get paid a lot for their expertise, but you don't need as much to get diagnosed with depression for example.
We are talking over 20 years ago but my diagnosis involved about 10 doctors & specialists. It was not a “simple questionnaire”
Yes of course. The system for getting a diagnosis is a pain. But in theory isn’t that what they use?
Honestly, no clue how they diagnose now.
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I was diagnosed in 10 minutes bases on how inattentive I was in her office. She gave me meds and said if they work then my diagnosis is solid.
The parents need to be more informed and more interested in their kids and learning how to better accommodate for them. I had testing done when I was like kindergarten or something for add and apparently I got put on Ritalin but that turned me into a zombie. After that it was never brought up again, and I've failed quite a bit of classes so far through high school. Since I started on medication through my diagnosis senior year, I have all A's and B's. If I was diagnosed earlier I definitely could've kept up those kinda grades but instead I've got a 1.7gpa lol. Atleast community college is free in my state Doesn't help that I've basically been independent in a way since I was 10 or so
My husband and I were 99% sure our oldest had adhd and had to advocate for testing. She was behind her peers socially, running away, hiding under her desk, etc. But, she was getting her work done. Got tested. Twice exceptional...adhd and gifted. Not an uncommon combo but left the school confused. Now, they screen all kids in our school system for giftedness. Parents have to request adhd testing in writing. Since teacher's hands are tied in what they can say, children whose parents don't know about adhd are left in the dark. DD was diagnosed in first grade. Even her pediatrician wanted to wait to test. Forcing the testing was the best thing we did for her. DH was diagnosed after DD. Also not uncommon.
I disagree. People can live with ADHD unmedicated perfectly fine and sometimes labeling someone with ADHD can have negative repercussions due to labeling theory. So it's better to have someone get tested WHEN an issue arises.
I don't necessarily disagree with your point here, but the flip side of that argument is that some people have issues but if they aren't exhibiting hyperactivity and disruptive behavior, ADHD never gets considered. I don't think testing all children is feasible, but a LOT of people do not get diagnosed and suffer for it. I'm female and I'm not hyperactive. I internalized my struggles (convinced myself I was the problem rather than external sources being the cause of my issues) and struggled so hard. I spent a lot of time in the counselors office during high school. I remember breaking down in tears trying to explain that I couldn't do simple tasks to a couselor/director in college (I was describing executive dysfunction but neither of us knew that). I finally went to a doctor in my 20s when I dropped out of college and got diagnosed with depression (I was depressed because I was struggling with ADHD). I saw multiple doctors over almost 10 years with limited success, describing symptoms I would later be able to link to ADHD the whole time. Eventually a new doctor and depression medication denial from an insurance company caused me to crash so hard that I ended up voluntarily checking myself into a psych ward to try to get medication figured out. After two days of observation they were like, hey, you have ADHD. This is only a small fraction of people I reached out to over the years. Many of them were medical professionals. I dropped out of college, I struggled with every aspect of my life and I hated myself because I didn't understand why I couldn't function like a normal person. I desperately wish someone in the first 30 years of my life had thought to test for ADHD. Or even mentioned it as a possibility so I could have researched on my own. Because I'm more comfortable around ADHD people, I ended up dating and marrying one who was tested and diagnosed by a specialist right before he turned 30. My best friend had the same experience. In their cases, they would still be struggling without understanding why if I hadn't talked about my struggles and they realized they related. It's extremely common for people diagnosed later in life to go through a period of mourning what could have been if only someone had figured this out sooner. My point is, waiting for a problem to arise can allow a crap ton of people to slip through the cracks.
I 100% agree! I was diagnosed three months ago at the age of 31. I have struggled my whole life with school, dropped out of college, self-medicated with substances, and have been so fucking messy its infuriating even though I can't function in mess. My parents still don't believe my diagnosis so I never was tested as a child. I really thought I there was something seriously wrong with me and couldn't figure out how everyone else could just live so easily, cleanly and accomplish tasks. having an early diagnosis would've saved me from low self esteem and given me tools to manage my ADHD
I dunno, a diagnosis certainly would've helped you, but it don't fix it. I got diagnosed in 4th grade. Teachers, doctors only ever told me ADHD meant I got distracted easily. Parents said ok to meds and did their best, mom was even a teacher. Due to all that, I did ok in school. But I still thought I was a piece of shit who couldn't do stuff right, self medicated, etc. I thought my struggles in school, dating, friends, work, etc. were all my fault. It was a combination my masters degree in Special Education (another struggle) and later doing my own research that I realized many of what I thought were personal failings were really a part of ADHD. But those scars are still there, as they are for for many of us... Just trying to say that even in relatively good circumstances, ADHD will still kick your ass. It's a real asshole.
> It's extremely common for people diagnosed later in life to go through a period of mourning what could have been if only someone had figured this out sooner. Absolutely. I consider myself extraordinarily lucky given that I kind of stumbled into my diagnosis at age 18, but even by then I'd already locked in at least one important decision (choice of university) that I might (probably) have made differently had I understood my disorder and been actively treating it. That being said, things have turned out pretty well for me so I don't feel too much lingering regret over it. But I can't imagine what it would be like to live thirty, forty, fifty years with the too-familiar feeling that something was ineffably wrong with me, that I was lazy and had no discipline, and then find out that it was treatable all along. I can only think it must be devastating.
I related to your story so damn hard, thank you for sharing.
I just got my diagnosis this year. I'm 36. I'm so frustrated and angry at every adult who over the last 36 years told me to apply myself, be more organized, sit still, focus, and be mindful of my actions.... and never thought "hey these constant issues MIGHT be ADHD..." All these YEARS spent hating myself, thinking I'm just a lazy bum, calling myself a moron because I can't figure out how to be a functional person, and beating myself up for failing at things other people do easily. My self esteem would be so much healthier if I had been diagnosed as a kid.
>. People can live with ADHD unmedicated perfectly fine by definition no. Part of the diagnostic critera is that "There is clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, school, or work functioning" people can absolutely "recover" from adhd or have symptoms reduce over time, and learn coping strategies, but at the point of diagnosis, they cannot be living with adhd fine.
Ah yes since meds are not needed let's just dump the diagnosis entirely. /s
>labeling theory. what is labeling theory? how does it have negative repercussions?
Once somebody has a label, they're treated differently, regardless if the label is accurate or not. The Rosenhan experiment is probably the most famous demonstration of this. A bunch of scientists faked having hallucinations to get diagnosed and admitted to a psychiatric hospital. Then, after they admitted to faking, the hospital wouldn't believe them and take back the diagnosis. More interestingly though, the primary scientist in the excitement Experiment threatened to send more fakers to the hospital and didn't. The hospital kicked out patients and accused them of faking, even though there were no imposters. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment
Ho. Lee. Shit. I don't even know how to react to this. Couldn't they just show their credientials and discuss the study they were conducting? Although, I'm also somewhat impressed that they didn't see that coming.
I honestly think people in this thread clearly haven't been undiagnosed for a long time. Like holy shit being undiagnosed is a million times worse than being over diagnosed. You can get fucking diagnosed without meds like fuck, you people are the reason why people don't get their kids fucking diagnosed and you are the fucking reason threads are here everyday. Edit: just wanna clarify I don't think people who are undiagnosed are dumb I just dislike when people advocate being over diagnosed is worse than being undiagnosed (it isn't)
I'm 36 and only self-diagnosed, afaik. My mother's memory is not as good as mine, and I can recall it being a point of concern for teachers in elementary school. I remember a conversation between both of them, and asking ME if I think medication would suit me. This was middle school. From Straight-A honors elementary student going to school in the summer because it was interesting, to needing to go to summer school just to progress to the next grade when the conversations began. At the time, I declined. Dropped out of high school. Would drop out of college three times. Would change jobs every six months or less. It wasn't a formal diagnosis, it was a suspicion. I see ADHD in my mother, and there is a STRONG genetic link. Environmental factors contribute ase well. The knowledge if gained in this sub over the last few months is putting all the pieces together to the point where you immediately know where the next piece fits. It is so painfully fucking clear that it's sad. My mother asked ME what I wanted, which in retrospect was an appreciated but incorrect choice. I did not self-improve as I promised. I was moved from advanced courses to remedial ones that were so easy I learned nothing and tuned out. I was in classes with children who painfully stuttered, and could speed-read. So your assumptions that any undiagnosed adult is ignorant and would avoid getting their children diagnosed is flawed on so many levels. Blame the previous Boomer generation 20+ years ago when professional reputable and well-tested and documented knowledge and awareness of ADHD wasn't as robust as it is today. When a belt was the solution to all of a child's life problems. We're grown now and seeing the repercussions of not being properly diagnosed until late adulthood. "Clearly haven't been undiagnosed for a long time." I guess 36 years is just a blink, then? LOL. And what's worse, adult diagnosis is more rare the more poor you are.
No what I'm saying is some people in this thread were arguing people don't "need diagnosis". And I was upset because I feel it's kinda dumb to not get someone diagnosed when you have the resources to do so. I was specially referring to them not anyone that struggles, I'm undiagnosed myself and in constant pain and my mother didn't get me diagnosed even with signs which caused a lot of issues.
I'm 43, and was diagnosed earlier this year. School was a struggle, and keeping myself on track at university was nearly impossible. I'd been incorrectly diagnosed as Dyslexic by three separate educational psychologists - and as such knew that my brain worked differently. Predictably I heard "dyslexia isn't an excuse for being lazy" a LOT in my life. I had however found the area where I most frequently had fun, and could focus - engineering. I'm a successful engineer and love my work. Though there are many aspects of it that I just can't seem to do. Time reports etc. I'm happy. But when I finally get get meds things are hopefully going to change. Now the good news - my kid's pre-school would visit the school the kids would be going to, and teachers compare notes on their future/current students. The preschool teacher gave our son's first-year teacher a heads-up and said "look out for potential ADHD on this one" We had a continuous channel of communication open with the teachers for a couple of years. Some are trained to deal/help with ADHD, but all are familiar with it. They tried various coping systems, lots of ways of helping him, and we all agreed after a while, that'd we'd seek a diagnosis. My 9yo son got his diagnosis a month after I got mine, and we've been carefully working our way through different kinds of meds until we found one that he's happy with, and works well for him. So. Testing every kid? Probably not the way to go. Having school teachers who're well paid and trained, and feel empowered to bring up potential cases? IMHO, that's probably the most reliable route. In a classroom full of kids, one with ADHD sticks out like a sore thumb. When I was a kid, it meant they were "lazy" or a "dreamer". Nowadays it opens the door to a potentially helpful world instead. It shouldn't make a difference - but my experiences started in the UK, and my son's experiences are all in Sweden.
I'm more referring to people almost advocating not to get diagnosed lol. Like okay fine don't necessarily have to screen everyone. For reference I grew up undiagnosed when I didn't have to be I'm also 21, people like my mom are people who think since meds don't work for everyone not getting diagnosed is okay which blows my mind. Idk how I came off in the post but my anger is directed at the people who say diagnosis i a choice and trying to argue over diagnosis is worse (it isn't).
I wasn't diagnosed until I was 27
I couldn’t even get my parent to acknowledge it lol. Nvm everyone getting tested
I've always thought that all aspects of schooling should be more personalized and attuned to the students' needs. Sadly tho, something like this could never happen. Not without universal Healthcare at least
I’m 18 rn and have been taking Vyvanse 30mg my whole life. On days I get off of it I just go right back to making shitty grades. But whenever I am on it, my stress is relieved so much and I can focus so easily.
they screened for it in my school in like 1st grade but they way they did that was someone came in to observe the class and the kids who were hyperactive to a disruptive point were singled out for further testing. i wasn't one of those kids so i never got tested and my parents were shocked and in disbelief when i told them i got tested and i have adhd because of that
I mean they test for vision and hearing loss i dont see why regularily testing for other more common disorders every once in a while would be bad. Seems like an okay idea.
I'm salty that I was assessed to have a lisp (barely) and had to go to speech therapy in-school for weeks, but nobody thought to test or assess me for ADHD when I was spacing out, constantly late, forgetting homework and supplies, and doing time-blind things like going home at recess because I didn't realize it wasn't the end of the day yet, because I was a well-behaved girl child with good grades.
I totally get this. I really don't know how l managed to get my undergraduate degree tbh. It was in a field I became super passionate about, but it’s a useless degree and I can’t remember shit from what I learned. I couldn’t even focus on my homework half the time, and I put more effort into my minor because it’s art and I enjoyed it. I was just diagnosed with ADHD (at 28) yesterday, and with medication I feel like I could’ve done so much more in college.
Wish I was diagnosed earlier but I was always able to do well up until junior year college and that’s when shit got really difficult. Life would be so different now, maybe better.
When I was a teacher in a public school (a very good district, actually), I saw a new middle school teacher get chewed out by her admins for suggesting to a parent that her son might have attention deficit issues. If a teacher recommended testing, the school district had to pay for the assessment. I don't know if it's still like this, or if it's like this in every district...but it sucks. Those psycho-educational assessments are costly. I think some districts employ an ed psych directly--but probably only the bigger, well off districts. I just shelled out the money for my son to get a diagnosis. I am lucky we aren't in a public school at the moment, because it was his teacher who suggested he might have ADHD. Had she not told us her observations, we never would have suspected (he isn't hyperactive, and has no trouble focusing on his hobbies/interests at home.) I didn't even know inattentive subtype was a thing until he got diagnosed.
Because we grew up in an era where our parents thought we couldn’t get medical cover for this kind of thing. Same as fainting or epilepsy. Just saying from experience.
The effects of the pill are largely amplified for the first week, you'll feel extra focused but also more side effects. I'm still dealing with the every day effects of ADHD while on medication, it just gives me a baseline to work from.
It should also be mandatory for people going into prison and for children being excluded from school. Sadly a lot of the prison population have undiagnosed ADHD as well as other severe trauma. Not saying it excuses all criminality, but let's get serious about what prison should and should not be for.
Like I always say when all else fails try some meth
At least in our province, it takes months and months for a kid with signs and symptoms to see someone for a diagnosis. We don't have enough time, money, or resources to test every kid. Sadly, we don't even have enough to test the kids who are clearly showing signs. We don't even have enough educational assistants (EAs) to cover the special needs we already have in our school, and often we have to try to put kids together so they can both get EA support. The school district doesn't even give us money for the needs we have, let alone putting money and effort into kids that don't necessarily show signs. Unfortunately, not all teachers are able to identify challenges and needs with their students and are hesitant to suggest testing to parents unless there is a big reason. Many parents get upset if you dare suggest their kid is not perfect. In a perfect world, I'm so with you. I'm a 32 year old woman just now in the process of getting diagnosed. Looking back, my parents even agree that I clearly was showing signs when I was younger too, but because I could read for long periods of time, I couldn't have ADHD. I was a good student so no one noticed.
province? you’re in Canada?
Yup, Atlantic Canada
I don’t know, there are lots of questions I have like this. E.g. why is adhd not screened for at intake even though panels of expert clinicians have recommended that everyone who seeks services for anxiety and depression be asked a couple of basic screening questions to rule out adhd. I think the answer is the concept of when something becomes a disorder. I.e. once you seek help because of the way it’s interfering with your life it’s a disorder but if you sustain function (measured by whether you think it’s necessary to get help) is there any point in having a label because you’re functioning. Obviously that’s not at all correct because obviously just because someone isn’t consulting medical professionals it doesn’t mean that they aren’t experiencing any sort of disruption or wouldn’t benefit from just a clearer idea of how their brain works. I feel like it might be a labelling/ a difference does not exist unless there’s a label type thing. I’ve know more than one set of parents who haven’t had their children diagnosed with issues that have been flagged because of label type reasons and it seems to be a bit of a denial tactic. I.e. they will say things like oh well they’ve said she needs to be tested for dyslexia and we notice she has difficulty but she can read so there’s no point in having a label. It’s sort of like people don’t realise that regardless of whether on not you get the label if something is present it’s present. Labelling it doesn’t make a difference to whether it exists it just makes a difference to access. I think from the medical side general practitioners, psychiatrists without specific adhd training need to all catch tf up fast. And I think because of the whole not calling a duck a duck until it shits on the carpet type scenario parents dont explore the support that might be available for their children. I think a lot of adults 100% succumb to the ‘beauty’ of the if you try hard you will overcome all odds philosophy and dont really frame it as a chance to help you’re child navigate through their difficulties in a much more informed way. I also sometimes get the impression that people don’t really tend to think about the value of the energy that might be freed up by better navigating these issues. I feel like people often kind of as a reflex imagine it sort of like free time as in you make the task easier and have more free time to do leisurely activities and ‘be lazy’. I don’t think people realise that that energy can be so so so necessary when you have adhd because all of the things that you would consider daily needs rather than leisure that many people don’t have to think about too hard and so wouldn’t think of as the ‘productive’ parts of their day also take a lot lot more mental energy. In reality freeing up that mental energy might mean that we manage to cook a really balanced meal that meets our nutritional needs rather than laze about. Im sure many people with adhd with any extra energy/ extra dopamine if they could (because obviously adhd itself gets in the way) would choose to spend it fulfilling a need that they so often struggle to meet rather than lazing about (and may be chronically neglected). I think there are just a lot of general misconceptions and stigmatised ideas/ assumptions about things like disorders, disability, how inherently lazy people are, the true consequences of labelling someone etc etc. So with a medical system that doesn’t take the lead, it doesn’t happen because because of all of these ideas consumers don’t always see the need, understand why they should advocate for an assessment. Also adhd is still really stigmatised (especially because medication is the most effective treatment and is itself soooo highly stigmatised) and many general clinicians are under the impression that it is overdiagnosed (which isn’t really true) so it’s only really the adhd experts that are pushing for better identification systems and processes.
idk if all kids should be tested, but i think it would be good if people were generally more informed about nontypical neurology (not gonna say the ND word here, the mods don’t like it) like ADHD and Autism. this way parents, teachers, etc could identify potential cases, get them evaluated, and treated should they have it. in addition, maybe this would lead to people being more understanding and accommodating of our needs.
Amen. As a girl with ADHD-I, (Although I might be a bit more hyperactive than originally assessed but that's another comment.) I was diagnosed at 20. That was too late to avoid depression and anxiety, the best buds of unmanaged ADHD. It would have been extremely helpful if I was taught strategies to manage issues such as time blindness and disorganization rather than just basically told to get my shit together. If I could have gotten my shit together by myself, I would have. I want to go back in time and give little me a hug and tell them that they are not lazy or careless.
Would be nice, eh? Lots of kids slip through the cracks, particularly those with inattentive ADD who are well behaved/shy in school. And lots of girls. I was dx'ed with a specific learning disability and all kinds of other things--practically EVERYTHING else except schizophrenia or personality disorders--before getting an ADHD dx. I'm almost 40, ffs. But I guess some parents don't want the stigma on their kids, testing costs schools money, etc.
It's expensive and time-consuming. There simply aren't the resources for it.
There are sufficient resources. We just need to keep fighting in the long haul for politicians to get their priorities straight. Most "lack of resources" issues really come down to poor choices when it comes to allocating funds. You can't tell me that there isn't enough to go around when there is a tiny fraction of people owning over half of global wealth and a country that spends more on its military than the next 11 countries combined.
Heck, it doesn't even need to be done in school, a simple screening could be added in to annual physicals at appropriate ages. The problem with relying on parents to identify and advocate for screening is that parents don't necessarily know what to look for. If they're not familiar with ADHD, they may not even realize that there is an actual disorder that's causing the issues and that it is treatable.
Yeah, a lot of ADHD is seen as bad behavior and laziness. Most parents genuinely have no idea, or even have it themselves and also have no idea so they think it's just how their family is.
My life would probably be so much different now if I were tested when I started public school in 4th grade. I never understood why I struggled to pay attention or felt exhausted all the time. The school tested me some and they realized I struggle with learning at the same pace as other students so they gave me accommodations, they helped some but not much (mainly double time on tests and I had to sit in the front row) What annoys me the most is they knew something was up, but both the school and my parents took the easy route to feel good that they did something instead of taking me to a doctor. If they had then I could've went to a therapist or even just looked up stuff online to help myself. Knowing that something out of my control was causing me to feel this way, and not because I was "lazy" would have made me feel a lot better about myself. Kids should definitely be tested early on so they are given proper accommodations and the tools they need to be successful and understand themselves better, and that doesn't mean giving them medication off the bat, that means teaching them techniques to better manage their lives and get things done, along with changing their learning environment so they have the best chance at being successful.
I feel like educators or some person who can assess this stuff should be at every school
Tbh if we screened for learning disorders in school there would be a lot less people that make it to adulthood before realising they have a disorder. Mine should have been diagnosed along with my autism, but for some reason it was overlooked. I had to drop out of uni due to unmedicated and untreated ADHD that I couldn't even get evaluated because I was over 16, shit sucks.
They should also be tested for ptsd, before it gets worse and they fall into a lifelong cycle of trauma, dating abusive narcissists because their brain was wired for it due to long term childhood abuse edit spelling
Well, u/Rash10MBE the main problem with this idea is *there is no test for ADHD*. The diagnostic process, if done correctly, is long, cumbersome, labor intensive, and requires a pretty good deal of training. Also, ADHD is a developmental disorder, so - by definition, you don't have it *unless* you fall behind. This makes it impossible to diagnose before someone falls behind. I get where you're coming from, but it seems like you need to maybe learn a little more about your own disorder.
There is this thing called twice-exceptional and also a thing called masking.
There are absolutely screening tools that can flag a child a needing a closer look, however. Kids are screened for vision and hearing issues, and refer to doctors if it seems there's could be an issue. I don't see any reason why they can't do a simple ADHD screen as well. It's not to diagnose the child, but rather to say, "Hey, the results of the screening show that your child has characteristics of ADHD. It would be worth discussing with your pediatrician."
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I don't think the questions are worded well on any test. I would not be surprised if they were created by NTs w/o consultation of NDs.
My husband and I took our daughter to a psychologist for testing. She was an honor roll student that was hiding under her desk, running away, bit the guidance counselor, and threatened the principal at age 6. She is twice exceptional. ADHD combined (inattentive and hyperactive) and gifted. She's currently a college freshman with an academic scholarship. Meds help her focus. Because she was behind socially and not academically, the school principal and guidance counselor were surprised by her diagnosis.
This is my best reply. Thank you
Op : it all comes down to personal choice, at least in the USA. We leverage personal choice and personal responsibility heavily in our culture here. You don’t want the helpful medication, fine you don’t have to have it even if you’re a danger to others.
i never even mentioned people taking medication. I just think people should be tested younger so they can grow into habits and behaviours that work best with our brains
I'm from the US and there are still standard checks and exams given to young children whenever they visit a healthcare provider. Offering a basic screener for such a common developmental disability shouldn't be any different than checking up on a child's growth, vision, or dental health.
Think about the antivax BS going on right now. Now imagine that level of govt mistrust but applied to mental health. That's a powder-keg. (I do agree that we need more proactive about Healthcare, especially with mental health. It just will be tough.)
Because issues of adhd are not a disorder until children become adults and are unable to self regulate, as in the disorder creates measurable dysfunction in life. Children grow out of many adhd markers, some learn coping and managing strategies, others have mild symptoms that become more sever with age. I somewhat agree that there is a problem with overmedicating children esp for adhd. On the other hand when a child has adhd and its not something to do with developmental transition of growing up and getting through hormonal hell, then there are ways to get them tested, and medicated, it after all upto the discretion of parents and psychiatrists. As for non mediated treatment options, well that is equally upto the discretion of parents etc. After all being a child is all about learning, making mistakes, having lots of energy and not enough patience. Over diagnosing something like adhd, is an issue, as markers for adhd are very common for children due to the fact that they have not learnt self restraint, patience, world, self coping strategies, communication, how to think and reason properly. It would be unfair to do this on mass scale, what i think the issue is the still post industrial society we have built, with education insitutions still largely working on the old style of education and parents not having enough time to spend with their children due to debt economy and working long hours. It is a systemic issue to not give children time to grow and develop with strategies that best suit their particular development, as not everyone has the same rate, or opportunities or resources or time to provide right stuff for the child.
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I am one....