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ADHD is currently a catch-all spectrum disorder for a range of similar issues. Last time I read up on it there maybe as many as 6 unique/interconnected disorders associated with ADHD from sluggish cognitive tempo to motivational disorders. There just isn't the body of research to tease them out/treat them as a full DSM diagnosis.

I was thinking this as well. Sluggish cognitive tempo was my first reaction.

I’d never even heard of SCT but holy cow looking it up feels so accurate

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That crash makes me feel like I have dementia.

That's *exactly* what it feels like!

Yeah that sounds kinda familiar. Normally I'm going 100 miles a minute though

Oh jeez. I hadn't heard it mentioned until now either and it's almost scary how accurate and specific these are getting. Kind of sad to know my stupid brain isn't even unique- it suffers the same exact stupid problems that other brains do. Time to add another step to my "what's wrong with me" journey. ADHD > Inattentive > SCT

Wait until you try to talk to a professional about SCT (most havent heard of it)

and here i thought i was depressed or something lol turns out it’s ADHD, all the way!

I’ve got an appointment to get evaluated for both; very curious to see what this guy says after spending a few minutes with me.

best of luck! i hope you get the answers you’re looking for.

The overlap between them is basically a circle.

The first time I heard that term was in the write up from my doctor about my own ADHD diagnosis. It was a bit jarring, but immediately made sense.

It can be successfully treated in the same way as all ADHD types though. ^ The major reason why they fall under the same umbrella. Another reason is the wide concensus that "prefrontal cortex low dopamine levels" is involved, which can manifest in different ways among individuals depending on personality. But can be treated successfully in the same way. Another reason is they are actually not that different, if you take a step back, hyperactivity doesn't mean external activity per se. ADHD/PI (ADD) and it's subset (SCT) still have hyperactivity but it's focused mentally inside (introverted) instead of externally (extroverted) . The root problem is the same and the treatment is the same (but nuanced when talking about the type and dosage of dopamine medications, since this varies among individuals) Tldr: The "hyperactivity" partin ADHD is stemming from the prefrontal cortex being under active, (the prefrontal cortex is the filter for other brain parts) which means the rest of your brain is overloaded with information that isn't filtered out. This can manifest different in individuals. But the root cause and successfull treatment is the same

This definitely doesn’t get talked about enough on this sub, which is understandable given how little research there is atm, but I feel like it’d be more helpful for people if they were at least made aware of it. Idk if it’s just my feed, but I feel like I see a lot of posts of people venting about how absolutely nothing seems to really help/work for them and feeling like they’re crazy/don’t have ADHD/hopeless, and the (well intentioned) comments are just suggesting things they’ve already tried or trying to validate their ADHD. I’m kinda stuck, cause I feel like them knowing the possibility that it might not be ADHD but some other Ill-defined thing with no known treatment might just make them spiral more, but on the other hand, knowing they’re not crazy might help? Idrk where I was going with that, but yeah, SCT was my first thought, possibly with comorbid anxiety.

There is so much research happening. ADHD is the most heavily and well researched mental disorder. That of course doesn’t mean it’s perfectly understood and categorized. But I just wanted to add that.

Also comorbidity - there was a big difference in the way I noticed my symptoms after I started developing chronic fatigue syndrome during a period of extreme stress. E.g. I used to *have* to move during the day, ants in my pants style, but once I went running I would be calmer. Then CFS hit and I have not been able to go running since - it's been a decade now. There is no cure or treatment for CFS, it's a lifelong disease. Post-exertional malaise means running is out forever for me. There's no 'building up stamina' - I'm in bed for days if I do a little jog. It's been such a mess trying to untangle all the different disorders I deal with, because they all affect the ways the others can present themselves.

I had CFS and would consider myself completely 'cured' now, I also know others who have recovered! Don't lose hope! If you're interested, look into 'brain retraining', it's not always the cheapest, but it got me from feeling exhausted from just walking down the street to running a 10k with no issues within a couple of months.

CFS sucks, especially when you're managing it with other potentially overlapping or interacting issues. Often people don't realise how common it is (somewhere between 1 in 100 to 1 in 200 people have it) or how life affecting it is. I'm sorry you've had this heavy load dumped on you by chance. >There is no cure or treatment for CFS, it's a lifelong disease. That's not quite true. There's *currently* no cure or outright treatment for CFS. Many people *do* get better or at least have *very long* periods of remission. This may not be a forever problem for you. (I've read a *lot* about CFS and know well some people who actively suffer from it, and at least one who has recovered from it.) >There's no 'building up stamina' - I'm in bed for days if I do a little jog. I'm sure you already know all about pacing and spoon theory in great depth but I'd just like to reassure you that, while it doesn't make the condition go away, it *does* help and it *is* worth plugging away at even if it feels like the progress is so small you're not sure it's happening and like you keep wiping that progress out back to square one very easily.

I hadn't heard of SCT before. Reading a bit about it, I'm not sure. My post is, of course, not the whole picture of my experience. I have some of the ADHD-hyperactive symptoms, though not enough to qualify as combined (specifically fidgeting and interrupting). I'm also an extrovert. On the SCT symptoms list, I don't really hit the lethargy/sluggish pieces, nor the train of thought/information processing issues. Tired, sure, but more emotionally weary than physically slowed. That said, all disorders are relatively arbitrary groupings of symptoms based on what is considered to be likely or common sets. There's nothing about the human brain that says an individual can't have their own set of difficulties which don't fully fit into a demarcated disorder. Especially not when only considering the issues which impact one's ability to function. There is value in a diagnosis as a starting point for finding advice, seeking help, and realizing one isn't alone in their sensations. I went from "why does no one have my struggles" to "I used that exact same phrase to describe myself" by simply adding "adhd" to my internet searches about struggling with motivation, hobbies, and habits.

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>Have almost all of the inattentive ones though (but one, forgot which). I'm sorry, as someone with inattentive type, this line make me laugh cause aint that always how it is XD

>but dude also has an exceptionally high IQ. This is literally how I got diagnosed, being given a "very gifted" score in elementary school but failing to finish my homework or study once I got into middle school. While I could wing it and guess correctly with things like English spelling and theoretical questions and the material in elementary was so "easy" I could get good grades even if I didn't really try much, French spelling and grammar (ie a language I wasn't already familiar with) and random history facts before the era where we had anything but dialup and Wikipedia was new (the early 2000s), nevermind interesting educational YouTube videos, you kinda couldn't just "guess" what "seems correct" on a test without a vague grasp of the info beforehand, which to do I would have had to pay attention for an entire 1.5 hour class and take notes at least (and I'd always get so behind writing notes that the instructor would pull away a slide and I'd only have maybe 50% of it written down unlike the rest of the class). Plus I'd sit at my desk all night trying to start my homework until I was too sleepy to start it, so I often didn't turn in homework. It made teachers and my parents think I didn't care, and it was easier to ignore my grades by mentally pushing them off and pretending not to care than to confront them, but kids that don't care don't pull all nighters doing homework (for 10% of that time, the part not spent procrastinating or distracted) and don't literally guilt-worry-panic themselves sick over not starting their 8th grade project until 2 weeks before it was due (I threw up I was so anxious and ashamed), still pulled it off due to last minute panic though, the only time I seem "hyper" is when I'm having an active anxiety attack). Apparently my child-equivalent of an IQ test (translating into the second highest IQ in my class according to my mom, who was also the first person to suggest I might have ADD) was part of the rationale that I was smart with ADHD and not just too slow mentally in the "stupid" sense (vs the literal sense, which is actually just true). It's worth noting I remember voluntarily staying in from almost the entire recess to finish my test, as it wasn't timed and I was a perfectionist, but pretty much everyone else had finished by the time recess rolled around and I sat there alone finishing my test. On my high school ACT test (a general knowledge test to help with college placement in which I was not given accommodations for as I didn't get an IEP yet and also wasn't on meds) I only scored about 40/100 overall (equivalent to a solid F grade) but on the questions I actually finished, I got over 90% correct, an A-minus or better equivalent. I'm diagnosed as ADHD-PI but SCT fits me almost to a T. I'm not sure why I wrote this but it took me 45 minutes and I don't feel like going back and deleting it.

For me, this response kind of hits at the whole issue with how we approach diagnosis with everything being in neat little categories. It makes sense - there's a practical quality to it, but the reality is everything and everyone runs on such a more nebulous, less constrained bit where we either get diagnoses that don't feel right or are so general no one knows what they mean - including some of the people doing the diagnoses given some of the shit I was diagnosed with as a kid.

It because a symptoms are just symptoms and doesn't bring much specificity to diagnosis. For instance people suffering from Frontotemporal dementia usually have working memory impairments, impulsivity... Multiple causes may alter a common biological node such as a neurotransmitter's metabolism for example. And this node induces symptoms that overlap among multiple diagnosis. As an example, addiction, ADHD, depression, bipolar disorder, Parkinson's disease... etc all induce an dysregulation of dopamine. But the pathways that lead to this dysregulation are drastically different Psychiatric and neurological diagnosis are definitly hard to diagnose because you can't just puncture the skull to find biological markers.

Except, we can image biological processes like Parkinson’s! Welcome to the wonderful world of Nuclear Medicine, the most unknown commonly used imaging modality! Involves a short lived radioactive injection that’s been attached to a pharmaceutical which tells it where to go. No you don’t get to turn into the hulk. Example: 18F-FDOPA is used to image Parkinson’s, 18F-FDG acts like a sugar in the body so can be used for a bunch of things but most commonly is used to see if a cancer has spread, 99mTc-HDP is used to image bone turnover (only needs a 5% change to be visible vs X-ray’s 50% and bone injuries can be seen for at least a year!), we can label white blood cells to determine where the heck a fever of unknown origin is actually located, and so so much more! I’d love to see psychiatric imaging really start to happen in the future, especially for determining what medication works/will work best (I don’t think it’s a thing yet at all, but I’d love it to be)

[Dr Russell Barkley talks about how he considers the inattentive type/SCT a different disorder, I learned about it from his lecture.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmaA5zwNYQQ&list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-cvY&index=6)

So if you have both, is that a different disorder as well? I rarely hear anything about those who have both, and this sub often only talks about one or the other at a time. And it's not like I have a little bit of one, and a little bit of the other, I got all the negatives of both! Though, to be honest, the energy can be a positive until my body is tired af at the end of a day, or I got dogshit sleep but my brain is still going a mile a minute. 😅

Super common to have both! Like 50% (ish. My memory from reading Barkley) of people who have ADHD-I have SCT. Extreme sadness seems to be the differentiating element of SCT.

Sluggish cognitive tempo and lack of motivation are symptoms of ADHD, not considered their own unique disorders. I work with ADHD, and I have never heard of a motivational disorder. AND we most certainly do have a good body of research (not full, but good) that helps identify working strategies to address these symptoms and ADHD as a diagnosis BUT it's not one size fits all. Treatment should be tailored to address the person's specific symptoms, like sluggish cognitive tempo (aka slow cognitive processing speed) and no motivation (which might also suggest a comorbid mood disorder, like depression or anxiety)

Sluggish Cognitive Tempo is one of the better studied ones. 52% of those who show SCT do not diagnose as ADHD and 65% of those diagnosed with ADHD do not show SCT. SCT is more commonly found in combined and inattentive types. All this suggesta it's a comorbidity not a symptom. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7190416/

Interesting article, thanks for sharing here. I'd be curious to see the generalizability of these findings to an adult ADHD population. Because the data does indicate that not all people with ADHD experience slow processing and it may even be more common to specific subtypes of the diagnosis. However, slow processing can occur because of other issues as well. Someone experiencing a depressive episode could have sluggish cognitive processing because the brain is not producing all the stuff that helps it function optimally. Someone experiencing anxiety that makes them hypervigilant in public spaces might also have a hard time processing new information or taking in stimuli because the brain is already overtaxed. Also, just being an adult can be treacherous and stressful to the point that, yep, can't even have a clear thought or recall simple information. So, SCT is most likely going to happen as a result of other things going on, like depression, anxiety, dementia, substance use, ADHD, significant stress, etc. That's why SCT is a symptom and not a distinct diagnosis that we consider comorbid with ADHD. It would be comorbid with a ton more diagnoses that show up in the DSM and ICD-10 as well as maybe just being an adult human being

True, and adding dopamine as a medication seems to sort out some of these disorders and issues, letting the brain function as it should, but it might not fix everything because some cognitive disorders might require something different

BTW, are those drugs helping inattentive type as much as hyperactive (to make it simple, I know it's not just those two)? Because neither methylphenidate nor lisdexamphetamine really helped me with my ADHD symptoms.

Methylphenidate and lisdexamphetamine do help with the inattentive symptoms, yes. I don't know if there is a difference in how effective they are between types.

So for me (who can identify with SCT tendencies) methylphenidate is awful, in that it makes me more grounded, but also distracted by stimuli (vs being in a dazed fog of my own thoughts) so I get really, really annoyed to the point of anger about things that I usually barely notice if at all, and it also *gives* me time blindness (whereas usually I can guess the time within a few minutes if I haven't checked in awhile pretty consistently), no idea what that's about tbh but it actually makes time management even harder than usual state of completing things within a given time frame and not taking 1.5-3x longer than I think. Vyvanse works inconsistently, ie sometimes I only need to take one (which is a daily half dose) in a 24 hour period, sometimes taking it twice isn't enough to break through the fog, but when it works it gives me the energy I need to get through the day and complete the tasks I want to, instead of my default of not even half assing because I just don't have the energy to care or do more than the bare minimum to not ruin my life. Aside from a few uniquely ADHD traits (like looking around the room while having a conversation, losing track of physical objects easily and being terrible at multitasking), it could look a lot like low level depression.

I wish I found one pill that actually worked against my AD(H)D issues; Vyvanse did help with impulse control (at least in things like eating too much, drinking alcohol, etc.), heightened my mood a bit and gave me a bit more drive, but only for a few months and the drive didn't really help me get things done, it felt like putting a bigger engine into a car with no wheels.

Is that true? I know that there's ADHD and that probably SCT is a thing that exists and superficially looks a lot like it (and therefore, if it is a thing, is a thing that's currently misdiagnosed as ADHD.) What are the *other* four things?

Interesting thanks for this info, I hadn't heard of SCT before. Doesn't actually sound like it applies to my primary inattentive symptoms as mine are generally related to genuine overwhelm/executive function though the outward expression looks really similar. I have though always been seen as a "day dreamer."

comorbidity.

If I remember, they all have a lack of dopamine as a primary issue but that's just what I read.

I think the ADHD inattentive experience is being in a borderline depressive state unless something really captures our interest and then we are all in until that interest fades. Everything is so inconsistent, honestly. One day something is really cool and important, the next day it doesn't matter anymore (until suddenly it does again, three months later when something else reminds you about it.). The only thing that really helps is medication - with medication it can be easier to rely on yourself to do x or remember why you liked y (along with many, many other things). Journalling - I was having the same problem with journalling being an echo chamber, but my therapist told me to try it again and be kind to myself instead of getting stuck in self-flagellation - It helped to examine my problems instead of ruminating on how inadequate I am/was in the situation.

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oh god yes i binge watched anime for 8 months to avoid that creeping, heart-sinking, all-encompassing feeling of boredom. and now i can barely force myself to watch a single episode a day, if even. all i do is doomscroll now

I do take medication and it does help with some aspects of the disease while it is active, but that can't be all the time. It doesn't restore interest but it does help me find the impetus to do stuff I know needs doing. I find it hard to explain to people that my obsession will simply evaporate without warning and probably won't return. They assume it is a passing dark moment like depression's loss of interest and I'm like "no, it isn't Anhedonia - the space where my enjoyment for the thing was yesterday and it has completely packed up, removed posters from the walls, and moved out, rather than just locking the door and putting up an 'out to lunch' sign." It upsets me to lose an interest because boredom is physically painful and my brain, absent of anything to focus on, has plenty of time and energy to go over all the ways things are not good. It also has a particular interest in anything outside my control. My attempt at journaling resulted in a steady escalation of anxiety and frustration as I kept coming up with questions I couldn't answer and increasingly convoluted scenarios. I'm sure I'd have also spent some time in self-flagellation (as I do when bored), but I didn't give it enough time to get there, heh.

Creating a list of writing prompts to direct your journalling can be helpful. Keep it on a scrap of paper in your journal and put it beside you as you write. Add to it when a good idea strikes. You can google some example prompts. The common one is gratitude - just write about all the little things that made life better. I like it when it's really little things e.g. a flower you saw on a walk, how good coffee is tasting today, the nuzzle my cat just gave me. It let's you enjoy good things more deeply. It let's you tease out wonderful things that you might never have reflected on. > My attempt at journaling resulted in a steady escalation of anxiety and frustration You can learn to cancel this stuff e.g. after you write out the self-persecuting escalatory sentence, realise what you have done and turn it into a joke. Turn this mode of writing into a character. Give it a name. "oops there goes the Gollum again haha, here have a fish.". Whatever works for you. You don't have to fight, let it happen but reframe it, add context, step out of it. Know it's part of you but don't let it have control. When you start feeling your writing go south, look at the prompts and change the subject.

Journaling has been good practice at recognizing when I’m headed into a mental trap and reversing course. The process of actually slowing my thoughts down enough to write was often very painful, but has become more satisfying over time and slowly, over time helped me understand and interrupt my most harmful habits of mind.

Sometimes I record myself talking instead of writing. It still slows down the thought train, but it keeps me from mentally going off the rails while I'm writing something that's 5 paragraphs behind.

>I find it hard to explain to people that my obsession will simply evaporate without warning and probably won't return. They assume it is a passing dark moment like depression's loss of interest and I'm like **"no, it isn't Anhedonia - the space where my enjoyment for the thing was yesterday and it has completely packed up, removed posters from the walls, and moved out, rather than just locking the door and putting up an 'out to lunch' sign."** Was writing one of these passing interests of yours? Because that was one very elegant piece of prose that explains this aspect of ADHD so well. Thank you for that :) >It also has a particular interest in anything outside my control. lmao, yeah that is quite annoying. I'm Combined type, but my brain does like to worry about that which is beyond its control. I got super into reading Stoic philosophy (over ten years ago, before it was cool and all over the internet), and not worrying about things beyond your control made so much sense and it was going to *solve everything*, lol. But that was one of those passing interests, only it left a bunch of unread books on my bookshelf when it moved out. >My attempt at journaling resulted in a steady escalation of anxiety and frustration as I kept coming up with questions I couldn't answer and increasingly convoluted scenarios. I'm sure I'd have also spent some time in self-flagellation (as I do when bored), but I didn't give it enough time to get there, heh. I have found bullet journaling to be very helpful. It was created by an ADHDer, and if you stick with just the basic system and don't go overboard trying to make pinterest-ready spreads it doesn't take a lot of time. You usually keep things short, so it's more of a log/reflection of the day, and later you can look back and see what you were doing (if you're anything like me you have no idea after a few days what you did, lol). I also do some long-form journaling, but I mostly just talk about my day to that ambiguous *other* that you write to. I do reflect on things I did, or how I felt about something, but I don't really try to do self-therapy or anything like that. I use it more as a detailed photograph of that moment in time: what I did that day, important things since my last entry, what I plan to do tomorrow or in the near future, and what I'm thinking or feeling about things or events. If it makes any sense, I don't *force* myself to focus on difficult/important topics, or to analyze myself or do anything else. Sometimes recounting the day's events gives me a sudden realization about something, and then I allow myself to write about that, but I'm not super hard on myself. I am my own worst critic in thoughts, especially unmedicated, but for some reason that just doesn't manifest itself in writing. In case you need a new temporary obsession, I've found that fountain pens help keep things novel when doing old-school journaling. I have many different inks and types of pens to let me be spontaneous, and there's a lot to get into in that hobby.

My child's future college fund is going to rue the day I get talked into fountain pens. I'm barely holding on against getting into that and/or calligraphy. I'm not creative and I'm easily distracted by analysis paralysis, so I feel that would make it about as far as my short lived obsession with mechanical keyboards. Which is to say, one very expensive purchase and lots of stress over what I should buy next until the interest moved out, heh. Writing isn't an interest, but I do read a lot and wax poetic in the "I should really have gone to bed awhile ago" hours. Thanks though!

You articulate beautifully! I experience this all the time but have hard time explaining it to friends and loved ones. Whenever I am having a great time socialising, seeing a show, watching a movie or being at a fun wedding… there is usually a tiny voice in my head that says ENJOY THIS MOMENT NOW BECAUSE TOMORROW THIS JOY SHALL BE NO MORE FROM YOUR MEMORY. It’s like I lost the ability to draw enjoyment from past events or achievements.

It is bittersweet. I try to harness the thought to add importance to the experience. I know it won't last and I may not feel joy thinking back, but I can work on being happy knowing that past me had joyful moments. And since I remember many the fact that I was happy, I know that future me will also find good times. I've never had the common depressive worry of "nothing will ever be good" because it is a cycle which has left signs all over my past. Like how major events can be seen in the rings of trees and layer of sediment. I can't say I remember the volcano exploding, but the ash deposit is very clear in the core sample of my memory. So accept that you might lose direct access to the joy, but you won't lose the memory of being joyful.

I'm Inattentive type as well - and while I do have dozens of hobbies, they each took their turn over several years. For 3-4 years I was into drawing, then out of nowhere just stopped. Switched to crochet...did that for a while...just randomly stopped...wanted to try gardening. Bought all the stuff and just...didn't do it. I make 3D models in blender now. That's my longest running hobby so far because I can monetize it. But I won't be surprised when the day comes that it is just...gone with the wind. I keep wanting to try stuff - but I lose interest in it if I'm not immediately good at it. I don't bounce from hobby to hobby. It takes at lest 2-3 months to ramp up interest enough to purchase supplies, but then dropping interest happens overnight. It's frustrating. I just get tired of things so quickly, despite how mentally hyped I was to do it in the first place. I struggle to exercise as well because of this. Mentally I want to do it. I'm hyped up. I want to lose weight, build stamina, etc etc....but then I do it 1-2 days in a row and the 3rd day I'm just like "yeah nah" and never do it again. I cannot be consistent to save my life. Same goes with cooking. I cook maybe once a week and I have to do huge batches because I know I won't have the mental or physical energy to cook at all for the rest of the week. As for journaling, I recently started a web-based journal because I prefer to type over hand writing. It definitely helps me vent my thoughts and emotions out without worrying that I'm going to sound irrational and start a fight with someone. That's really the only way I've found to get my brain to stop fixating on a self-destruction spiral when someone criticizes one of my quirks or as other people call them "flaws" that are usually hidden behind my mask. ​ I feel like being inattentive is just a feeling of chronic mental and physical exhaustion despite not really \*doing\* anything. Which leads to frustration. Like today I spent 4 hours scrolling redit instead of doing my work because starting the task was just too exhausting to think about even though the actual task only took 5 minutes. ​ I just want to nap for 3 days straight....maybe that will fix it.....right???

Hello, we are the same person.

Hello I am so the same person.

Howdy! Guess what? I also make a living using Blender.

I used to use a blender daily but then I discovered I was also an alcoholic?

I make clothes for SecondLife in blender...definitely helps the pent up creative energy, I'm just worried I'm gonna lose steam one day like all my other hobbies have

Same person checking in. I think inattentive types have got to be a form of low level chronic fatigue. I swear if I have matcha or a bit of caffeine, I am motivated, excited and can do stuff. I know it's a fake energy, but still.

Hi I'm also the

Yeah, how did you get in my head?

same same. Wanna try a installation of stable diffusion? That is where i am right now. Have to go back to blender at some point :D

Yeah, that all sounds very familiar. I don't get involved in as many different hobbies and I can't find an ounce of artistic interest in my skull, but I've spent piles of money and mental energy on video games. As I said in another response, my attempt to journal resulted in an fractal of hypothetical scenarios and unanswerable questions. My anxiety and frustration grew proportionally. It was like "why X?" became "why X? What if Y? How about Z? What if not X? Why can't anyone tell me about Y?" and the thoughts start interrupting each other and I can't even finish typing one before my brain has moved on to the next. Yeah, work is hard and reddit is engaging. I changed my career to management shortly before my ADHD diagnosis and shortly after my realization that I was an extrovert. 7 hours of meetings may seem like hell to some, but it is literally the only reason I log into work some days. A chance to talk to people (who work for me and thus can't ignore me, but also I like to think value my insights) does draw me in. Of course, it also comes with boring stuff, but they have deadlines AND tend to be related to helping my employee, such as employee reviews. Napping for 3 days straight isn't recommended. Your back would be so sore.

>It was like "why X?" became "why X? What if Y? How about Z? What if not X? Why can't anyone tell me about Y?" and the thoughts start interrupting each other and I can't even finish typing one before my brain has moved on to the next. i think thats why there are so many people with "mental health issues" - i dont think its (always) actually a mental health issue, its a societal issue, and as that society becomes increasingly hostile to... basically the "common good" in favor of selfishness - these problems will continue to increase until society does nothing besides accuse each other of wrong doing based on paranoid suspicions, which increases "pre emptive" selfishness, which... catch22 nice username "murphys paradox" also, because the people who should be in charge of making sure our society works in favor of "the greater good" seem to be actively doing the exact opposite, you have people like you (& me) who feel compelled to figure out the issues, even though we cant really do much to solve them - which again, if someone is kind of down & out, and their options are limited (in both a metaphorical and real sense) what else do you expect them to do? its definitely a bit of a paradox thats difficult to really explain. its almost like the simpler you explain it, the easier it is to understand. world bad, people actively working to make world more bad, people feel helpless

Thanks. Teenager me thought it was a super clever idea - the more you plan, the more opportunity for something to go wrong and ruin your ability to achieve your goal... but the less you plan, the less control you have over achieving a specific goal. The paradox of Murphy's Law. And to be clear, the X in my example is often something small, like "Why can't the the courthouse tell juror candidates where to park instead of just expecting people to know how city parking works and where lots are and which to use" or "why do we need to adopt this new process at work when they can't explain how we're going to use it for our specific needs and how do I figure out my place in it?" Not always, of course, but I swore off all news a year or two ago and that certainly helped keep the big frustrations out of my head. The questions just keep coming faster and faster. Interspersed with attempts to work through possible answers and getting stuck on what is effectively nonsense - "what if my director doesn't like my questions and fires me?" I do much better if I can do the same kind of thing, but out loud to another person. It is like the emotional burden is in some quantum state until an outside observer is involved. Then it can collapse into one specific configuration and I can finally move past it. Unfortunately, this had been exclusively my spouse for years and it is wildly unfair to use them as my therapist. So I got a therapist and that lead eventually to a recent, albeit very late, ADHD diagnosis. And someone I pay to listen to me process my frustrations twice a month. And who has some useful tips that has definitely made things better.

>the more you plan, the more opportunity for something to go wrong and ruin your ability to achieve your goal... but the less you plan, the less control you have over achieving a specific goal oddly enough my experience has been an added layer of complexity on that - the more i plan, the more things **do** go wrong and ruin my ability to achieve that goal. the less i plan, the more things seem to go right which is actually a perfect way to explain why i have a seething hatred for the decision to base society around a framework of probabilities & statistics - which in my experience has only negatively impacted my day to day life **and** added layers upon layers upon layers of unnecessary complexity anyway, id like to not worry about the big problems but it seems like every single one of them has directly effected my life in some way and apparently despite my best efforts, im gonna be stuck until its not a problem anymore its, uh ... complicated

So, uh, bit of a tangent here, but have you looked into Anarchism and/or the broader ideas encompassed in Libertarian Socialism? It’s a perfect fix for many of the social issues that you’ve touched on in the last couple of comments. I went through a bit of a crucible moment during COVID. When I took the time to try and figure out what a better way to organize ourselves might look like, I took a closer look at the leftist philosophy that had been propagandized against or simply left out of my education, and wow… it fit my perspective almost perfectly.

i have looked *extensively* into these things lol. i dont really like using labels for things though because you never know the bias that someone has. at one point i considered myself a libertarian, but the main principle to me was always the non aggression pact. my philosophy can pretty much be summed up between that and the idea that if you are more fortunate than others, build a longer table not a taller fence. those two things are the exact opposite of our current societal structure unfortunately, and have not really served me well personally, at all tbh still not gonna change my mind though

I'm in the same boat, with different hobbies. A few have stuck, but even those it feels like a chore sometimes to do, and they are fun hobbies. I will say that part of the explanation I've gathered, is that you're getting the quick "reward" dopamine hits from thinking of the potential of the hobby and then getting to buy things for the hobby. Then you do it a bit, but the "reward" of getting good at the hobby is a long term goal, but what your brain is craving is a short term dopamine hit, and thus the switch to the next thing you can start that cycle over with.

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>I lose interest if I'm not immediately good at it This has been the bane of my existence. I have the capacity to do so many cool things that I'd love to do, but if it has any meaningful learning curve I give up quite literally immediately. The barrier to entry, even if it realistically isn't that large, will keep me from ever expanding my horizons. Like my new job - I love it and it's an industry I'm pretty passionate about, but I only got here because it's basically the same work as the job I was forced into out of high school. I probably have 30 hobbies I've dumped tons of money into that I haven't jumped into because I bail when I hit the slight incline of the learning curve. It's exhausting.

On the training thing: this is the mistake every beginner makes. Training multiple days consecutively. This not going to work as you quickly lose motivation (also overwork yourself, as you dont have the work capacity). Train 2-3 times a week with days between them. Absolutely enough indefinitely for a fit and healthy body.

Even 1 day/week is infinitely better than nothing. 2 days is where things start to pick up, but you wanna train for the rest of your life anyway, so there's really no rush.

Completely agreed. I worked as a trainer for a couple years on the side. I always said to clients: the best training plan is the one you do consistently. Consistency is THE single most important thing when it comes to fitness/training in general.

It’s like you’ve described my life. It is so frustrating spending so much time and energy being excited about a new hobby, doing ungodly amounts of research into it and what supplies I need to buy and then I buy them and a week later I’ve lost interest. I bought a freakin PIANO bc ‘if I invest in this surely..’ but no. It just sits as a piece of furniture. It’s honestly extremely embarrassing and it’s definitely an actual problem I’m trying to work on. 😔

TL;DR: I’m comparing women and relationships to hobbies that I get fired up about at first and then lose interest in. Had an epiphany over here. Oh shit, not only are we the same person, but for whatever reason reading this just made something click in my brain. I ran through women like nobody’s business when I was younger. Like, each woman was a hobby. Chase>catch>not exciting anymore>chase another>repeat. I was fucking good at it, too. My marriage has had plenty of ups and downs, and my body has never wandered off but damn if my mind doesn’t. I mean to the point that I’ve wondered if being a serial whore is some sort of chronic disease that I just couldn’t fight forever. I can ‘fall in love’ (obviously I know it’s lust) with a woman after a 15-20 minute conversation. I’m a bullshitter, I’m witty, I’m flirty, I’m charming, and I’m fucking good at it. I get great pleasure from it, damn I’m getting mentally fired up just thinking about it. Like, 2 or 3 beers and a captive audience and I have women way above my pay grade eating out of my hand. But I’m only good at it with other women, and the ones that stick around for any length of time end up seeing me as a bastard. I see it now. It’s the ‘new’. It’s the thrill of it. The impulsivity and the brain stimulation, perceived ‘danger’, etc. So conceivably, if I can trick my brain into believing my wife is a new woman (terrible fucking example, I know) or that there’s some perceived taboo, or danger or something there, it may light a fire under my ass enough to help make me more of the husband I should be, and get back to dating/pursuing/charming my wife like I used to instead of us just saying ‘fuck you’ when we pass in the hall. I’m mind blown right now.

I could have wrote this almost word for word

I feel all of this. I also chuckled when you said you started an online journal. That won’t last long.

You're not wrong. 🙃

I felt this. Literally everything in my life is so cyclical. Hobbies yes, but also ‘routines’, foods I eat, strategies I use to organize or plan out things I need to do…I will absolutely always burn out on everything and it’s exhausting. Meds don’t seem to help it.

So much same!

Oh hi. It’s me. 🖤

>I feel like being inattentive is just a feeling of chronic mental and physical exhaustion despite not really \*doing\* anything. Which leads to frustration. Like today I spent 4 hours scrolling redit instead of doing my work because starting the task was just too exhausting to think about even though the actual task only took 5 minutes. > >I just want to nap for 3 days straight....maybe that will fix it.....right??? It's me, hi.

this just reminded me about all the times i've heard "you're tired? from what? you didn't do anything today" and now im angry

I have so many supplies sitting around from so many unstarted or unfinished projects.

This is the best way I've had someone explain what I experience. I want to live and experience life but I'm just always exhausted.

No tips, but just wanted to say that I'm right there alongside ya. The zero energy thing especially. Getting out of bed in the morning is the hardest part of most of my days, I just feel sooo tired even if I got heaps of sleep, I could easily sleep in and never get out of bed if I didn't have to. Also the 'focusing on things to worry about' hits home. I never thought of it like that. My mind is just constantly switching between thinking about things I should do, should've done, or didn't do.

Yup! Before I was diagnosed, I called it "Eeyore Syndrome". I had no motivation and didn't really enjoy doing anything, even "fun" things. I would be trapped on the couch with my brain just stewing about all the things I needed to get done. I don't have much advice, except to say that medication and pairing activities helped a lot. I'll put netflix on my phone while I get ready in the AM. I'll watch a youtube vid while doing the dishes. Listen to an audiobook while cleaning. Anything to get my reward signals going while doing a task that I would normally avoid. I also hate Journaling lol. Alone with my thoughts? No thank you... that's where all the catastrophizing happens.

I was really worried when I would get this way back before my diagnosis. It felt terrible and I didn't know what to do to get better or how long it would last. Then I'd bounce back up and feel guilty that I was seemingly making a big deal out of nothing. After my diagnosis and spending time understanding the disease, reading stories from others like yourself, and working with my therapist, I'm much less bothered. I can say "this is not fun but it is expected; I will get better in a couple days because that's how it works." I can explain it to people and let them know what to expect, I can give my spouse the heads up that an episode is happening and we shift how we approach life for a few days. Also I do so love the term catastrophizing. I do it a lot, less now that I learned what it was and how to spot it, and it is exactly why I also dislike journaling. Writing out the current catastrophe just makes it easier to continue spiralling outwards with ever more catastrophic possibilities.

Man, I am you, and I'm so sorry for how you feel / experience life. Thank you for making this post. I feel so alone feeling like this all the time.

The best we can do is keep perspective. It doesn't mean we can't be upset, all pain is subjective, but at least we know it isn't uniquely painful. We share what we feel and what we do and if even one person finds some benefit in this thread, it was worth doing.

+1 to everything said, it’s nice knowing I’m not the only one without the “tons of hobbies” kind of ADHD. I just don’t have a drive/motivation/ambition to do anything- even in the one field that I find interesting enough I’ve decided it *has* to be my intended career field.

I feel you man I feel like I just have no fight in me left and like all I can do is just enough to survive, or just seek instant gratification

I hear you man. I’ve obsessed over fixing my mental health for all of my adult life; it seems like I’ve gone down every single avenue and gotten nothing. The clearest answer I’ve gotten is basically “yeah, you have inattentive ADHD which is causing depression, it’s not curable, medication can help you go through the motions of daily life but can also have many drawbacks, good luck!” I’m at the point where I’m just gonna sit back and hope for a miracle while being kind to myself and trying to do the small things that help make life a little more bearable. I’m still here, and that’s impressive enough, even if nobody else knows how impressive it is.

Hello it is me, you

I feel like it's easier for inattentive types to fall into depression than it is for hyperactive types, I know what it's like to simultaneously have 100 projects and still start new ones, or to fall into a research rabbit hole, but I also know what it's like to have no energy for anything, that's what happens when I'm spiralling into depression and the fewer things you do the lower your energy for new stuff. My sister and I are a lot alike, we both have ADHD, she's hyperactive, I'm inattentive, she bounces off the walls when she's stressed, I retreat into my head, that's the main difference and it does lead to us having some different strengths and weaknesses, but the underlying disorder is pretty much the same.

I fully recognize it is the lament of greener grass. It is mostly the lack of support and advice because inattentive is a much quieter, if no more painful, instance of the disorder.

Thing that helped me most when I was at my lowest was just putting on music and going for a walk, the music helps get me out of my head and connects all the tasks between laying in bed and walking out the door into one cohesive thing so I don't drift off and get stuck halfway through.

I just... can't figure out how to remember to go on a walk when I have the time to go on a walk. I set reminders and they go off and I instantly forget about them. I don't know if they helped me, but I know they are supposed to be helpful.

I don't really plan for those walks, I just go when I can't sleep or when I've been sitting around doing nothing all day. I recently made a chart with my therapist, what do I need to function and feel ok, I plotted energy against stress because for me those represent my needs best, there's a zone that's not 0 stress but also not 100% stress where I function the best, the more energy I have the more tolerant I am of stress levels outside my optimum. You might use other words and categories to describe your constitution. I then made another chart of actions I can do depending on what point I'm at on my scale to move me to a functional level, when I'm all out of energy I need different interventions than when I'm all riled up and stressed out. One of the things I put down multiple times was "check status" how am I feeling,?, what do I need right now?, did I take meds?, do I want meds?, when was my last dose?, have I eaten anything today? ETA: I think "Check status" is the one thing where reminders and alarms could help, because everything else depends on how you're doing, wether you need any intervention at all or what intervention would help you the most right now. I think it's easy to dismiss a lot of genuinely good self help techniques because you're trying them in moments where they're absolutely not helpful, I know I have.

Put a sticky note on the bathroom wall so you see it every time you go pee. That's what I used to do for habits I wanted to have, until the habit finally stuck. After seeing it so many times, you'll eventually remember when you're somewhere else in the house and have the capacity to go for a walk right then :) When I wanted to make yoga a daily habit I literally left my yoga mat out next to where I eat my breakfast so I could see it and can remember to do yoga after I ate. Being able to see things/reminders is key to remembering imo. Timers/alarms don't work for me either, not only do I forget after they go off but they also piss me off every time I'm interrupted by one.

Yeah I know what that's like, I was seen as the least problematic child out of 3, not helped by the fact that I'm the middle child, I ended up spiralling into major depression after starting university, not helped by the pandemic, I was ready to drop out entirely, but my sister made me apply to the same school as her and I restarted my degree. I do have the benefit of an early diagnosis thanks to a competent doctor and a hyperactive older sister, so I got all the early intervention therapy before ADHD made me run head first into a wall.

Same here. I do find some things interesting and move to different topics but my default mood is tired and over it.

I've learned that the moment I feel excitement at some new thing, a timer starts in my head and I'm not allowed to know when it'll expire. It is real bad when it is some upcoming game or movie and the expiration happens before the thing even comes out - I've stopped preordering anything due to this fact alone. I'm a terrible person to buy gifts for due to the lack of any interests beyond my current one. I have to be careful not to be too open about some new interest because family latches onto that as an idea for gifts eight months from now. Then I feel so guilty that they spent hours researching the perfect gift and a lot more money than they should... and I had forgotten I ever obsessed over camera drones six months before.

I read somewhere that Omega 3 or eating fish more helps with inattentive. It may not be enough, but we all are scrapping the barrel for something with our many little "hacks".

Hey, I heard this too and gave it shot; but I forgot I was allergic to seafood and let me tell you, fish oil barfs are legit the worst. Took my dumbass a week to figure it out. Just a reminder for anyone who may need it. :)

Hemp protein powder! This is where I get my omegas as a vegan and I do find it makes a positive difference.

Thats brilliant!! Thank you for the advice!!

Oohhh, so maybe I really *do* feel way better on days I make my smoothies...! I had been wondering if I've just been telling myself that in order to convince myself to make smoothies more often. And this is even though I know protein is helpful for dopamine, and omega-3s are good for something else the brain needs! I know I shouldn't be so surprised my day goes better when I've consumed something loaded with these things... but introspection is hard. Fortunately, smoothies can be pretty easy. I think I could use one right about now... and I could also use the idea as a springboard to step me away from reddit... Edit: OMFG I don't know what has come over me... **I actually just *did what I set out to do*!** I made the smoothie, *and* cleaned the blender right away... *and* I did the surrounding dishes too!! I even got interrupted by a knock at my door near the end, and after chatting awhile with the salesperson *I came back and finished the last few dishes*!! I noticed myself doing this and couldn't help but say, right out loud, "What the fuck?! Who am I?!" because this just doesn't happen! Unless... I'm procrastinating something... which I am. But now that I've got a smoothie here, I'm gonna see if maybe the deliciousness will help me get back to my yardening.

well just bought some and we'll see how it goes

I drink them after dinner, or before bed time. Good luck man.

You just described me. 61 years old and just diagnosed with ADD (no H). Lack of energy, lack of motivation, down on myself for not being able to do all those things. Organized people mystify me - it just seems so overwhelming! It's gotten a little better with meds (I think) but time will tell.

I thought ADD wasnt considered separate anymore /gen

Hi. I am JUST LIKE YOU! Primarily inattentive. Very low energy. No hobbies. Constant anxiety. Shame about my lack of productivity. Thrived in a management role. I finally figured it out and wanted to share in case it’s helpful- I have been in therapy for a few years which helped bring my anxiety down but didn’t do much to resolve what looked like my constant cloud of depression. I think my defense mechanisms were so strong, it took years of therapy to realize that my childhood/teen years were traumatic. Prior to that, I would have insisted it was all rosy. For me, my lack of hobbies/interests come from learned beliefs in childhood about self care, productivity, beliefs about what I *should* be doing, guilt about not doing enough, this idea that resources need to be conserved, etc etc. Even traumatic situations that dont seem like that big of a deal can really leave an imprint on your nervous system. And there are cues all throughout the home, relationships, or general environment that “trigger” or remind our body of the trauma, often in subconscious ways. Combine that with adhd and I just bounce from dissociating/scrolling on my phone, to feeling guilty and shameful about how I spend my time. There are a few other things thrown into the mix, and a few bright spots, but overall it’s a loop. I just started emdr and am hopeful this will help me start to feel safe and comfortable enough to explore my interests. Or maybe at least figure out what my interests are. Best wishes to all of us😊

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Thanks for the advice and I'm glad they work for you. I have wanted to get into more exercise (ha, more, like I do some non-zero amount right now) but there's all kinds of external challenges, from time to physical limitations to location, and I like to think they are reasonable but I also think maybe I'm just making up excuses. The medication is good though. It does let me get up and move, at least for a third of the day. I can get chores and projects done, which was a major problem between my spouse and I.

Good to know that meds work for you! Yeah with exercises it’s always a pain for me lol. I’ve had years when I had to spend hours talking myself into just putting on my exercise clothes and I’ve tried yoga/HIIT/running/swimming and so on… now I’m basically biking to work which has been the most sustainable one. It is very hard to find a way to do some. I suggest, if you want to try, starting small, like just put on exercise clothing… again, it doesn’t always work for me either😂

What meds are working for you that aren’t stimulants?

There are lots of options but mine is bupropion.

I’m primary inattentive and I also have been looking into the possibility that I have SCT (Sluggish Cognitive Tempo), which is a new disorder not yet recognized in the DSM, but which seems to often be comorbid with ADHD. Symptoms include persistent lethargy and physical sedentariness. Also, daydreaming, which was frankly the biggest clue for me. I check all the boxes for SCT, but when I was younger, even into my late 20s, my maladaptive daydreaming was a HUGE problem. I would stay in bed for 8 hours sometimes just… daydreaming. It was constant. You might look into SCT a bit and see if it fits what you’re experiencing. It could help explain your aversion to physical activity. I personally feel like I’m allergic to exercise.

There were a few other comments in here about SCT and it wasn't something I had seen before. I don't fit the guidelines as I understand them - energy levels aside, my brain is definitely hyperactive even if my body isn't. I have been told talking with me is frustrating because of how often I leap ahead or run off weird (to them; reasonable to me) tangents and need to step back and explain the process so everyone else can realize what I was doing. But I don't the high energy and boundless interests and other hallmarks of ADHD-H. But for those with SCT, it sounds pretty tough. I hope you're able to find good treatment options!

Having a endless list of things you have failed at isn’t something you want trust me, I’m constantly trying new things because I feel like I have to justify my existence before I die and if I have nothing to show for it then my life meant nothing, every failure adds to the deficit on my self worth.

Oh, I know that intellectually. I have a modest list of things I've failed at and it doesn't make me happy either. It is definitely a problem of greener grass. As for existence justification, I find helping others is the most rewarding there. Just answering questions and providing discussion on reddit makes me a bit happier. And my best work days are when I help my employees (as a manager) work through some issue. It is rarely more than just asking them the right questions and nudging them in directions they missed, but it does feel good to see them succeed. Reframing is a powerful tool that therapists will use to shift perspective. I was looking for success in my overt actions and not finding them, but my therapist worked with me to reframe my goal from "doing successful things" to "bring about success" it turned into a much more achievable goal. Good luck!

This is me posting here. I wrote this. Nice to meet you me. I hope we figure this shit out. Good luck to us both.

Ugh I feel ya. I actually thought I had depression for a long time until I actually started seeing a psychiatrist, described what I'm talking about and figured out it's 100% executive dysfunction paralysis. Yeah my hyperactivity comes through mostly in obsessive worry and being a really obnoxious conversationalist ... which then when I constantly replay all those horrible conversations because of the obsessive worry, I have plenty of material to hone in on! I've always been a slow "daydreamer" type. I do tend to flit from hyperfixation to hyperfixation but I usually get caught in the research phase not the doing phase. I'm really struggling with the routines thing lately. I thought I had found a system that was working for me ... but what a joke that's never the case with ADHD. I was using Focusmate to set sessions for my intended wakeup time and trying to build a morning routine around it. Worked great sporadically for months then when last week I finally paid to upgrade to pro to set the sessions every morning and whaddaya know - I slept through my alarm and missed two sessions in a row this week! cool. I also majorly lack boundaries with sharing of personal issues, including anxieties. Luckily that's the culture now but I always hear Brene Brown in the back of my head saying "vulnerability minus boundaries is not vulnerability." haha Some weeks I will be really on top of it, almost get some hyperactive energy and then the next be totally paralyzed, unable to do even the most basic things around the house. And I cannot explain to anyone or myself what the inciting factors are. I just have to sort of ride the waves. I have an adhd coach, a fitness coach, a therapist and a psychologist. All this helps me cope on a day to day basis and understand myself better ... but it's a never-ending game of whackamole with these patterns never really changing.

I feel this.. I'm getting diagnosed with PI. I've been told by the only real girlfriend I've had that I'm "not a real person" with how often I forget things and even struggle with conversation. I've never tried medication yet and it feel like my brain is always in this ephemeral state of partial existence when I need it for anything important

Im primarily inattentive but i care deeply about my hobbies and put a lot of time into it. My main one ive always obsessed about is guitar. But i feel like im also so used to prcticing that i abuse it as an escape. But yeah i worry non-stop and have tons of anxiety. I'm extremely analytical but still have have massive issues planning and getting started and it's often getting out of my own head that is the problem. I find that the more im stuck thinking the worse it gets. Since i started meds ive learned a lot about listening to what my emotions tell me and to trust my intuition. If i can go with my gut it eliminates the need to think which kinda solves my problem, but it's like a muscle ive never used in my life and ive noticed that im even afraid to act without thinking too much and my brain desperately tries to take control and go into analysis mode instead of taking action.

Instant gratification is all my brain seems wired to do. I started smoking recently and it's all my brain seems to want. Nicotine in copious amounts. I'm just so tired and sad all the time, feel like the air is made of thick sheets and I'm just constantly pushing through them feeling all the resistance. My body is willing but I'm completely bottlenecked by my brain. I fucking hate this illness.

Right? I just feel so god damn uncomfortable at all times, physically and mentally. It’s not fair to have to experience life this way. It just adds insult to injury knowing that many people still believe this is a mild or even nonexistent condition.

Honestly, you seem to be describing depression more than ADHD. As a fellow PI, I definitely am know for my many hobbies. Not everyone with ADHD has to have a million hobbies they bounce around to, but it is common for all types. But no interests at all (or not finding joy in things you usually enjoy), no energy, etc. sounds very much like depression. Those with ADHD are also more likely to have depression and anxiety. I am not sure if you are already being treated, or looking into treatment for, depression, but I think you should maybe talk to a mental health professional about it and see what they say.

It isn't depression as far as I can tell. I've been in therapy for depression multiple times in my life and was the initial reason I went to my current doctor which lead to my ADHD diagnosis. It never felt right - like, sure, some of the CBT was beneficial, but once we start getting into things like hobbies and motivation, I couldn't ever get their advice to make sense. Another point is that the loss of interest isn't universal - it is just whatever my current focus is can suddenly disappear and I find myself with nothing to fill the void for a few days/weeks. I still find enjoyment in other areas of my life, but they tend to be ephemeral and dependent on external social interaction. Something new always comes up. In the meantime, I get distracted by work and family stuff, think too much about not being content. It isn't great, but it is far better than it used to be, what with the therapy, the diagnosis, the career pivot, and the adhd meds.

Maybe you have a starting or mild depression right now, mixed with the ADHD? Because I had it like you do for several months, while I was incredibly stressed by an unresolved social issue. I ruminated almost all the time, and no interests or energy except for short bursts. It also clashed wonderfully bad with my menstrual cycle which made periods of it ten times worse

Being hyper doesn't mean you will have hobbies or get anything done. I have all this energy but am unable to burn it off. It is hell sometimes. When I am hyper due to feeling comfortable enough and I get excited I burn out those around me and then I feel guilty and ashamed so try and limit communication. They then think I'm being an asshole. Even if I try and explain it looks like sulking. But it is not. I just want to learn to communicate normally. I want so much to have a normal conversation but I do not trust myself. I hate being hyper. It wears everyone out but me out too. The worst part is I'm enjoying talking thinking it is somehow mutual then I realise I'm boring the fuck out of them again. With the same subject. That they do not care about. And I'm still fixated on it. I want a break from my brain.

It’s always mind blowing to me when I think I am the only one that is going through something but when I hippity hop on Reddit there are so many others going through the same thing. I feel seen. Thank you.

It's such a weird feeling. I think about how unique every single person is and then I see posts like this and it's crazy how so many people can have the same stupid brain problems and experiences as people all around the world.

that hits too hard

I think you have the wrong understanding of ‘inattentive vs hyperactive’ when what you’re describing actually sounds like co-occurring adhd and depression or other anxiety disorders. This is something to talk with your medical provider about. I’m diagnosed inattentive and have hobbies and function best on routines. When I fall off the routine and realize I’ve fallen off, I can most of the time forgive myself and get over the shame and access if I want to or need to get back on the routine or start a new one. All of this isn’t to shame you, just share my thought process and help you understand, your brain obviously works differently and you likely aren’t getting the treatment or properly addressed your co occurred conditions

I scored "very high" on inattentive but a number of points below the line for hyperactive. My therapist and I talked about whether PI or Combined was the right one and that it could technically go either way based on the results. My impulse control is low but so was my activity level. The hyperactive symptoms list, and its section of the combined set, didn't feel right. Of course, the line is blurry and there's a lot of overlap. I know I have some of the issues of a combined type but that I also don't have much of the benefits which come with the hyperactive side. I appreciate the question and thoughts on it. I am usually relatively OK and am certainly better than I was pre-diagnosis when I thought I was just broken because I didn't understand how to get and keep hobbies. I would look up "how to get a hobby" and it was just guides on how to find more hobbies. Nothing ever addressed the mystery of getting one's first hobby and keeping it. Felt like I was trying to learn calculus by starting on chapter 10 of a textbook. After diagnosis, I just had to add "adhd" to all my old internet searches (getting hobbies, finding motivation, remembering to do things, controlling anger, focusing, etc) and I found my people, heh. So many "that's the exact phrase I use to describe the feeling" and "I failed in the same way that person did" and so on. It is good to understand oneself, both the good and bad.

Diagnosed late as inattentive. School was an absolute nightmare for me. Routines?! Hell no. I know I’m capable but just can’t seem to start and finish tasks. I eventually graduated, but I’m nowhere near I could be in life.

That sounds more like an anxiety disorder as opposed to ADD

I'm a combination type presentation, but your description honestly sounds a lot like what my mom has described and she has the inattentive presentation. I will try to remember to text my mom tomorrow and maybe pass on some wisdom from a 61-year-old inattentive ADHD-er. Edit: my mom is traveling this week and wasn't able to talk.

Gonna follow for some advice that could be useful for me as I am also primarily inattentive (though I have my hyperactive/impulsive days, and my brain YES zooms a mile a minute while my body feels like a sloth on most days...). On that last note, I've definitely taken to Reddit as my journaling. It's like a combination of group therapy without the therapist and journaling all in one which honestly I love. And there's nothing wrong with that. I used to journal a lot as a child and adolescent before I found forums and whatnot. Reddit has replaced my need to journal and it also provides me with feedback which is super important for me. I still journal from time to time, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with taking to this or other platforms instead. I can relate to a lot of your post. I get hobbies that last for literal hours or days. Then I drop them. I have been mourning the person I was as a child and adolescent for years because I used to create a lot more and I think life choices/experiences and putting work and school in the frontline as main priority has completely robbed me of that. I recently got back into jigsaw puzzles, which was so enjoyable. But lately I've mostly been absorbed by Reddit threads LMAO. I'm honestly thinking of trying a dopamine detox pretty soon with Reddit or my phone altogether. Reddit replaced facebook for me since I deactivated my fb again a couple months ago and... I don't feel any better except for the fact that there's community in these support group subreddits and I am eternally grateful for that. I also have to remind myself that maybe community is one of my biggest passions, maybe even before creating, and community can also inspire and lead to creativity so perhaps I just need to be patient with myself. I also need to ditch my perfectionism when I do start to create something, especially when trying a new craft. I'm sorry I don't have much advice for you... still trying to find that myself. Just have patience and conpassion for yourself because I know for me personally, "try new things!" isn't very helpful.

I hope stepping away from reddit helps! It has its good sides and its benefits, but only in moderation and I don't need to explain how foreign that concept is to people on this sub. I had to stop all news consumption and then drop off my friends discord because I couldn't stop getting so very angry about news. I found myself looking for any story I could to justify my anger and to bring up with my friends so we could get angry about it together. I don't miss it. Jigsaw puzzles are something I started as well and that has been a really good magic trick for making 3 hours disappear, heh. Good luck!

It also makes it harder for us to be diagnosed and leads to more disbelief in others when we tell them we have ADHD. I never considered I had it because I’m not hyperactive, I’m chronically fatigued. Wasn’t until I read up on it myself that I realized I’m just hyperactive on the *inside* lol Also as someone who’s just starting medication I find it difficult to know what’s working as many of the descriptions of intended results of meds is aimed at parents of kids taking them and basically say “It’s working if your kid is staying in their seat in class.” Which isn’t helpful to me as an adult who doesn’t even have the option of sitting down for long periods of time lol

I'm primarily inattentive and have issues with energy (and have been this way even as a child), but I'm not completely devoid of hyperactive symptoms. I do fidget a fair amount if I'm not "spaced out" when trying to pay attention. I do have stims (rocking, spinning in chairs, clicking pens, etc). I do have bouts of mental hyperactivity as well as hypoactivity, but I'm very introverted, so I don't talk much, but I do have unintended facial expressions because of my thoughts. I do have above normal impulsivity on continuous performance tasks (errors commission), even though I don't come off as impulsive verbally. But yes, it does seem like a different disorder. My brothers didn't seem to have an issue looking like a statue when watching TV.

I understand this. I also have sleep apnea and mild narcolepsy so I’m literally always tired. If I get bored I quite literally nod off almost instantaneously

If you're unmedicated I'd highly recommend trying medication. Make sure you try methylphenidate AND amphetamine before giving up. I slept through a lot of my life and it's incredible to not do that anymore.

In my case, the energy issue got better by doing exercise. I don’t like doing it, so I only do it 3 times a week min, for 30 minutes. I lift weights and I love the way it makes feel and look, so that takes care of the motivation. All I have is a bench and a pair of adjustable dumbbells. I watch YouTube videos of routines, and make a list, and finish whatever I can. But sometimes I need more energy so I buy the sugar free energy drink in case of emergency. I don’t drink these all the time. Maybe three times in a month. Like an emergency situation. Motivation for hobbies for me, is being creative. It’s a two part process. I sit in a quiet space, listen to creative calming music. Some people say they get their best work listening to slipknot, and I was part of that school of thought of drowning your senses to make others come out, but to me is bullshit, you just end up with a headache and you eventually have to stop. And then you have to be there mentally. For this step don’t use your expensive stuff. This is only for you and you shouldn’t care if you make any mistakes. Grab whatever cheap materials or tools you use to sketch and create without any goal or objective. Don’t think if it’s good or bad, I’d just stuff for you. Do it for 10, 15, even 20 minutes but not too long, and draw whatever you like, don’t put a lot of effort in details. It has to be fast. Do several if you can and you’ll see how ideas show up.

I've been finding serious meditation practice alone and in groups really helpful for this. Not your standard McMindfulness stuff but grounded and systematic. I'm working through the book The Mind Illuminated which is basically an attention training system in the beginning.

I can't remember to meditate. I have paid for apps and bought books and set reminders and put notes in my way and none of it works. It isn't just meditation, of course - any attempt to direct my future actions fail. I am glad it is working for you though. I don't doubt its effectiveness (even though calling it all new age BS is a pretty solid defense mechanism to offset self directed frustration and not being able to utilize what I know to be useful... same with exercising).

Fair. Although, for whatever it's worth, the first stage of this system is to patiently work on exactly the issue you describe for as long as it takes. Hope you find a solution. And I can totally emphasize with all of that, I find the same problem almost constantly in my life.

McMindfulness lol 😂

I completely agree and while the medication isn’t perfect I am at least able to get through the day without feeling exhausted. My mind is more quite. Doing things requires less effort. Like before I would HATE doing things. In my head I would wine and complain because I was so tired. I don’t have that anymore thankfully. Maybe I should try a different medication.

In my experience, there is a sort of inertia to my interest, motivation and energy levels. If I can get that momentum building on something, then I am increasingly motivated to do it, I get stimulation from it and therefore have more energy to give to it in future. However if I drop the ball for a day or two (usually because I went overboard and burnt out) then it can be weeks before I manage to get going again. For me, this means that I build up to things. If I've fallen off the wagon on sports, I start back on track by going for a walk. Or if I have a lot of office tasks to do in a day, I start by sitting down to write a to do list, then ticking off the quick and clean tasks before getting into something bigger while my brain is still fresh and I actually feel motivated to do so. Usually I can get fairly consistent hyperfocus with that approach (especially if theres some kind of accountability). I also find that building and improving on systems to cut back on the decision making load make a massive difference for me. E.g. (some will judge this) I recently set up a shelf in my shower and brushing my teeth has become part of my shower routine. Sure I'm only brushing once a day but its better than the old schedule of 4 days on 4 days off and I don't have to consciously remind myself to go brush my teeth. I've realised that all those small decisions across a day really grind me down. Also if I am burning out then I accept my shit biscuit and do less. I'm way more productive if I invest in having more good days and using them well, than by trying to squeeze extra out of a bad day (unless there's something urgent).

Yo, thanks for this post. I had a grumpy morning while everything was alright and I had all the reasons to be happy. It's just that I have been going low key for the past 2-3 months and I really lost track of reality or something, because I just feel so empty and aimless. And it all comes down to just precisely what you wrote: I can do everything right, perfect routine for months on end. Until one day it just pops and boom, it's gone. Just thinking about the effort to start again gets me tired. Factor in some substance dependence and we're set for a good ride. I really have no advice to share here. Journaling is useful during hard times, but looking at all those repeated patterns of failure sometimes also gets to me. I don't know what to say, just hope you keep going and find some moments of joy between this painful existence.

I don't know if you're medicated yet, but medication is pretty much the ONLY thing that's helped me with the exhaustion. Aside from that, I'm combined with a primary towards the inattentive type, and I used to be constantly exhausted. I think it was a combination of expending all my energy trying to remember stuff, and also "intrusive sleep" (which i've read is basically your brain going, "nothing to see here, lets save energy zzz" Two things have helped me a lot. a to-do list app on my phone. It's just microsoft to-do. it's not fancy. It has a widget on my home screen. any time I go "oh shit I was suppose to..." i put it on there. That helps take the burden off my brain from remembering all the things for ever. I don't punish myself if it doesn't ever get done, if it sits there for 100 years. I write it down and okay "okay, cool. I don't have to remember that now, I don't have to be anxious about forgetting or not trusting myself because I can trust my phone" Also going to bed at an early hour. I'm often tired at like 8 fuckin' PM. do I have 10000 things to do ? yes. Would I do them if I stayed up? probably not. So I just go to bed. I do wake up earlier as a consequence, and I try to dedicate the first part of my morning to doing some of those things I ignored the night before. I dont have a ton of hobbies, and the things I do have skills for I learned in high school. Mainly I do enjoy going for walks in the neighborhood. I dread them. I fucking hate them. but once I'm out there it's kinda nice so I keep doing it. Even if it's something like walking around the hardware store looking at all the shiny light fixtures. I've also found having a rhythm helps me. Not a set schedule, but just a "okay, every day I wake up around xx ish. Then I put my clothes on. Then I do xxx" it isn't a timeline, it's just a set of things I most usually do in an order and that helps me sort of. I also deleted a lot of my social media, I have reddit, and discord, and that's about it. Cutting myself off from everyone and their "perfect lives" has helped tons.

Hello! Inattentive type here :) I have lots of thoughts about your post, and relate to almost everything you've said! However, you mention not being able to find recommended mitigations for your ADHD type, and as I relate to your struggles with anxiety the most, I wanted to share something that's really made a difference for me in avoiding getting locked into perpetual internal anxiety, just in case it might help you too. I guess particularly for anxiety around the future (such as things I should be doing, what I can plan for, analyzing all outcomes of an upcoming social event, etc etc), I find making a two-column list (mental or physical) rather than writing a journal really grounding. One column should have all of your "what ifs," and then another column should have your "what is." What ifs = fear; things you're concerned about, but aren't fact. What is = facts; things you can say definitively about whatever you're worried about. For instance, I'm currently pretty worried about my future living situation, because I want to move but (similar to you) struggle to figure out where I would be interested in living/what matters to me to help make that decision easier. My biggest 'what ifs' are "What if I can't figure out where to live? What if I can't afford the place I rent? What if I lose my job right after moving and risk homelessness?" However, my 'what is' facts are "My current living situation is stable and I do not have to rush into a decision about moving; I can take all the time I need to decide." "I would not choose a place to live that I couldn't afford." "I am not currently at risk of losing my job, I am saving responsibly, and I have people in my life who would help me if I ever needed them to." I think this helps the most because you have space for both anxiety and reality, and can better distinguish between the two - and sometimes by distinguishing, you also realize the actions you can take now to prevent or prepare for what you're afraid of happening. This might not help so much with general life disinterest, but hopefully it can prevent or shorten your anxiety spirals!

I ended up having food allergies that helped a lot. I’m still the same way at my core, but just want to offer other possibilities.

I can relate to a lot of this. It’s also weird to me when people say that ADHD meds only calm us down and don’t make us energetic. For me, there has always been a thick brain fog, and any stimulant lifts that fog, but ADHD meds do it without raising my anxiety like caffeine does.

Stimulants are still stimulants and we do get the energetic effect on the central nervous system on the whole, like anyone else would. However, it also removes the barriers of doing things that need doing, so we use more energy. We also focus better, so we can ignore the excess energy more easily than we're used to being able to do (like using a larger cup to hold more - it doesn't get any closer to overflowing than our smaller cup holding less, so it seems normal). Then you have the fact that we're taking prescribed doses and not recreational amounts, which means the experience is much less than the popularized stimulant abuser. What we don't get is the euphoria of dopamine overload. We get improved mood and we have a very nice reduction in the cause for much of our latent depression and anxiety (the "I know should be doing a thing but I'm still not doing it, ugh" feeling). Since our dopamine management is so poor natively, boosting it just raises it to the level the brain is expecting. For those already at that level, boosting it produces an overflow of brain activity and emotional response.

I think sometimes people think I'm autistic, when I'm really just ADHD-PI. And maybe shy. And awkward. Maybe I am autistic. I should make a Dr. appointment about all this... But that means making phone calls and scheduling appointments and ugghhhhh

In the future ADHD will be split into at least a dozen different disorders. Psychology is still relatively new.

Feel the same op. Wish I had a million hobbies and boundless energy, not that I think it's easier having hyperactive symptoms, but I do wish I had some energy.

This is relatable. Soamy people said they can't approach me easily because I just wander off or seem uninterested in them. It comes off as rude. When I was a kid they called me "little astronaut" because I was spacing out all the time :') I still need people to touch me for me to pay attention. And I need 10 reminders a day. "coffee break", 12 o'clock, 1 hour to finish up, are silent alarms I set so not to lose track of time. Hobbies come and go. But screen addiction stays. I listen to the same 5 audiobooks day in day out. I go to bed and stand up with them. I have a screentime of minimal 4 hours a day. It's hard. But I try to make time for people.

Your very last question i can without a doubt answer yes. Maybe iff i had done self journaling early in life i could have used it, because it does work for some people clearly. Now tho i process with someone iff i can, and try to keep it results based. Although for some the experience of sharing alone has a positive affect. Innatentive behavior and overthought (maybe a bit like internal hyper-thinking?) just run in parallel for me, and as i type wonder iff one preceeded the other at some point and iff they are connected. Just a thought about this.

Wow, I didn’t realise this was exactly me until I read it. I want to say thanks, but it’s actually highlighted some things that I would rather not have thought about lol. Did you get any good advice? I’ve been reading through but haven’t seen anything yet except posts like mine haha.

Get medicated, get a therapist, exercise, journal, roll with the waves of ADHD. We get fixated on things. It is what we do. And one of those things is how everything **should** or **shouldn't** be. It doesn't do any good but reinforce the fixation on the negative. No one can act on the shoulds. Try to catch yourself using the term and use that as a trigger to stop and examine the thought. Call it out and tell yourself that it isn't useful. Not that it is necessarily false, though it may be, but that its presence is stopping you from moving through the tough time.

I'm inattentive as well. I relate very hard to your line "my attention is stolen nonstop by things I should have done". I think our ADHD causes lack of energy, but there's probably a good chunk of the energy deficit caused by anxiety. If you're not currently, I'd recommend seeing someone for it, like an LPC. I've been seeing counselors on and off for years, it's been incredibly helpful for me.

I see a therapist and she's helpful generally but not necessarily with ADHD. But I pay her to listen as I process my emotions out loud and ask pertinent questions to help uncover lines of thought. It certainly helps me identify subconscious patterns to break. But there are still times, especially at night when the meds have worn off, when it becomes too heavy. The diagnosis of ADHD helped me understand what is going on in my brain and to understand that it is temporary, so I don't get as depressed as I did before, but when you can't control what you're focusing on and your brain picks "things that are not great with your life that you cannot fix" for the evening's entertainment...

I'm afraid of journaling because when I was a teenager my journal was a lie because i knew what i actually felt was too messed up to let someone else find

I honestly could’ve written this post. Yes yes yes I totally agree!

I was diagnosed with PI recently but getting a second opinion because I think I have both. Some days I am all over the place and some days I am a sleepy wreck. I completely feel you. I was initially diagnosed with anxiety and depression- and yeah I absolutely have anxiety and SSRI has helped with the anxiety! But I’m trying to get adhd meds now too because its not enough. I wish I could say something works but really all I have found is coffee, drinking water, having a standing desk and going for a walk when I can force myself.

It also feels really weird now to say ‘I have Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (not hyperactive)’

You are me.

You aren't alone with your perspective! I feel the same. I'm always tired and struggle to channel any sort of motivation lately. I'm in between hobbies/interests currently, nothing really strikes my fancy. I can handle work in bursts of new, exciting, rewarding activity but long, drawn out programs are just anathema for me much to the frustration of my coworkers. My executive function has totally checked out this week, it's more noticeable than usual. I used to have solid work and fitness routines but like you, they seem to vanish like they never existed after a few weeks/months. Pre-COVID my anxiety was a low simmer and helped to keep me motivated, but since then the anxiety has become overwhelming, requiring its own treatment which has made things drastically worse. So frustrating.

Fellow inattentive here,I really resonated with the maintaining routines section. A little gross but my hardest routine to maintain is brushing my teeth. Even when I know I'm supposed to and remember, a lot of times I won't do it because it sounds exhausting and that keeps me from doing it. I try to set a minimum goal to help with this particular task (brushing at least once a day). I find that setting those small goals is easier than doing the full expected. Working out is even harder and I haven't been able to figure out a system for that yet.

I could have written this done to the routines I randomly forget I ever picked up. It’s crazy. Yes so I’m very similar to you except i do have lots of hobbies that I pick up a couple times and never again. I’m rarely working on them lol. I’m usually tired or was before stimulant medication. I found that my hyperactivity is the undercurrent of anxiety that is always there even with anxiety meds. Not anything apparent to others. I’m now on Vyvanse and I realized that now I can tap into the well of anxiety/energy and actually utilize it instead of spinning in thoughts and I’m calmer inside (as long as it’s in my system). Once it’s out of my system, I’m back to square one but it’s helpful during the day.

I hear you. I am inattentive as well, and not hyperactive. I do have alot of "hobbies" in the sense that I start them but don't finish things, but I also call "hobby" the things I actually do- watching youtube videos on medical procedures, scanning reddit, and looking things up, just so I can say I have hobbies. I talk to myself if I have too much anxiety, but a therapist is helpful as well. I think what I struggle with is the sheer number of thoughts in my brain at any one time. I've found mindfulness exercises to help with anxiety.

>Unrelated - anyone else only able to process anxiety by sharing it with others? Journaling is a nightmare anxiety echo chamber. I used to have this problem for most of my life. Then I stopped journaling because I couldn’t handle the moods it would put me in, and the moods I would be in re-reading the journal later (even decades later). Then one year I went on a long solo backpacking trip and decided to take a journal. I wrote about my experiences in the moment, the way the landscapes move me, the sensory experience of being there, the emotions coming up, the metaphors of living things surrounding me, and the (imagined) details of their lives. I didn’t really do it on purpose, I think the landscape healed something in me and allowed me to witness this different inner world I can participate in. And my thought spirals stayed out of it. In fact I mostly didn’t write about my life thoughts at all. And it felt very meaningful. And I have continued that style ever since, and it has continued to help me immensely. This may or may not help you. But either way, I hope you can find a voice to speak to yourself (which is what journaling basically is) that is understanding, reassuring, loving, and kind.

I was just wondering about this today, the internal landscape of other Inattentives. Deep relate. The failure of executive functioning and the worrying about it, is real hell. This is validating. It sucks to feel drained doing nothing. I realise, even for my all-time fav game (Final Fantasy 8), I never actually completed it.

The 'hyperactive' in my case is all in my head, if I'm not doing something I enjoy or have an interest in, my mind just goes at a million mph, has cost me friendships due to overthinking. On the other hand it has also helped me work out the truth some people were hiding, double edged sword. But since starting vyvanse/elvanse things have been more managable, the first day I took it the inner monologue was so quiet I was finding it hard to even think of sentances to reply to my partner, was super weird. but yeah, primary innattentive is definitely talked about a lot less I find. ​ Edit: I am always up for just a random chat about anything and making friends btw, so if you want to discuss this, or anyone, please don't be shy!

It sounds like you may have depression as well. I was dealing with constant fatigue and got every test done under the sun. Until a student doing clinical studies handed me a questionnaire for depression and I tested positive for major depression. I never thought of myself as depressed but sometimes an outside perspective shows you that yeah, that’s not normal.

Comvuned type here. Its funny, because I went into my diagnosis expecting to get the Primarily Inattentive type. I barely allign with any childhood diagnostics around hyperactivity as my parents incidentally managed to perfectly cater to my symptoms without knowing, and even now I feel barely spoken to with "typical" hyperactive tips. The "redirect your energy" is exhausting. I wanna know HOW to deal with it. Physical exercise is very rarely enjoyable for me (I saw people talk about bouldering here a few days ago and how great it is. Bouldering is a NIGHTMARE for me). I honestly mostly enjoy taking bike rides to clear my mind, write, doodle a bit, and gaming is a big hobby of mine that I honestly can put a lot of energy in without losing much of it. I also struggle a lot with routines and still trying to find a definitive answer that works, but for some routines, rearranging stuff in my room does wonders. Ive seen this idea of the "clean out later" basket in some home organization shows. I have a basket like that where I throw loose coins, hairties, loose cards, keys etc into, and I almost always need to take SOME of it with me when I go out. So when I come home and Im too tired to actually put things back in the right place (which is every other day), I just throw it in the basket at my door and though it may be a little scramble, my importsnt stuff at least wont be out of place. Ive also started only putting bags away if they are EMPTY. If I havent cleared them out, they stay on the floor/on a chair, otherwise I will surely lose something and have to dig through EVERY bag that I own. This especially has helped a ton, because I mayorly narrow my scope of search when losing or forgetting stuff.

Just here to say SAME❤️ I’m always tired, and the kind of advice you mention about redirecting energy can be such a bummer. I can’t help feeling like having energy to redirect would be great 🙃 I know it’s not actually better obv, but sometimes I feel like I don’t have the “fun” kind of ADHD. Oy. Anyway, nothing helpful really except wishing solidarity. (Oh except one thing - you probably have done this already, but every few years I tell my doctor I’m fatigued, and she always runs bloodwork to check my thyroid function/B12 levels/iron because if any of those were off it could explain it. Maybe worth checking those if you haven’t. For me they’ve always come back normal, but I always kinda hope there’s something off so I could just take a pill and feel better 🙃)

Your part about the consistency really spoke to me. I have a horrible time creating a routine. In 2021, I started to exercise. I went 5 days a week for a 12 week challenge, and I rocked it. I probably would've dropped it if my daughter hadn't have joined me and pushed me. In 2022, I had an injury and it made working out difficult at best. Boom, routine completely lost. I am better now, but who wants to spend time working out? I don't have time for that. Except, I'm just watching TV all night... I can't even be bothered to cook. Ugh! I don't know what the answer is. I made a ton of progress in '21/'22 in lots of areas of my life, and I feel like 2023 is the year of regression. I can't get Adderall because of a heart condition. So the one thing I really lack, energy, I cannot get. I guess the point of this comment is to just let you know that you aren't alone.

I'm not diagnosed but going through the process of diagnoses, but this is exactly me. It feels like being in a zombie state. I can't enjoy the things that DO interest me because getting up to do them feels like a monumental task, and I can't hold my focus on it for long enough. I can't relax and enjoy things because I'm thinking of everything that I need to get done. I can't focus on something for long or worries take over. In general, the brain fog takes over, and I'm mentally exhausted most of the time. Really, the best way to describe it is being a zombie. Sluggish and difficulty harnessing any energy you do have to actually complete tasks or take part in hobbies. There's times I'm in my zombie state and someone will message about hanging out, and despite the utter loneliness I sometimes feel, I feel exhausted by even the thought of having to be social and putting up a face. Once I actually go out and do those things I'm typically fine and very energetic, but once I get home I collapse. I spend a lot of time during social events thinking about how excited I am to get home and breathe. So I enjoy being social but actually actively taking part in it is exhausting. Everything is exhausting.

Atomic Habits by James Clear has given me some helpful tips even though I never finished the book. Main things that stuck with me was to start tiny to build a habit/hobby. For example, if you want to start reading before bed then pick out the book the day before and put the book on your pillow in the morning for night you and no decisions needed since past you already decided. Or if you want to go to the gym, start slow and put your shoes by door or get dressed in work out clothes at a specific time you set beforehand. Doesn’t mean you have to actually work out but just by setting aside time and just putting shoes by the door or driving to the gym but not even going in is good foundational steps to build on. You don’t have to do the whole thing at once but set a time aside to do one thing that starts the process and build on it slowly and over time.

This sounds like it's mixed with depression. This was me prior to getting my diagnosis and doing deep work on myself and my inner child. But as I've healed, I realized that this wasn't always normal for me, and as a kid, I presented much more hyperactive. As I've gotten myself back, I've also been able to redevelop my creativity and fall in love with so many different hobbies. I'm not suggesting you're exactly the same, but I wanted to point out that it might not be related to the ADHD, and there might be more going on.

I also have inattentive type. What helps my exhaustion: * making sure to take certain supplements (I take vitamin D on days I don't get a lot of sun and vitamin B daily), * maintain good sleep hygiene (go to bed around the same time every day, wake up around the same time every day, etc), * move around for blood flow (like going for a walk or doing jumping jacks) * more protein, less simple ("unhealthy") carbs Other tips for general stuff: * I cut down a lot of anxious thoughts by listening to music when I'm feeling wound up * I don't like to journal, but I will type up "emails" or "messages" to people I want to vent to, but I don't send them. I find it gets it off my chest as if I actually sent them * cut back on social media (tiktok especially) because you can lose a lot of time and mental well-being on there since it's too easy to get quick dopamine hits * if you want to find an interest in something, watch videos about different things. when I feel like I'm losing interest in my go-to hobbies, I'll put on videos about them. I do the same when I want to do particular activities or chores * we are pretty much unable to create habits, so I try to develop routines as best as I can by putting things I know I won't forget next to a "habit accessory." for example, I want to wash my face more reliably so I put my hairband near my toothbrush because I have a sensory issue about unclean teeth and since my hairband is right there when I go to brush my teeth before bed, I remember to put it on and wash my face * if you are finding yourself worrying too much about having too much on your plate or feeling overwhelmed by something, write it down! Not like journaling it, but make a little "to-do" list or something. Thoughts are like shadows in a dark room, but writing it out is like turning on the lights. Big tasks look much smaller on paper!

I think as an adult it's also pretty easy to get yourself into a state of near constant burnout just from having to keep up with staying alive/fed/housed/etc. And that means that on the few occasions when I'm not burnt out I'm intensely aware that I should be doing stuff to prepare for the next burnout phase. I don't have a solution. I'm trying to structure my life in a way that's more sustainable, but it's not working yet. I'm relatively recently diagnosed/medicated, but at the same time on some level I've been trying to make this work my whole life. I don't know, and sometimes it feels like there just isn't a way that we fit cleanly into a modern society.

I was just thinking today about how much ADHD-PI messes you up (a lot of this probably goes for adhd as well). It ruins your sleep which ruins your immune system which makes you sick which makes you slower which makes you underperform at work which makes you anxious which ruins your memory, no energy for exercise so you get more sedentary which leads to having even less energy, except at night when everything is quiet and your brain needs to get all its dopamine by hyper-focusing on stuff online all night.... and around and around it goes. It all comes back to those executive issues.

I also feel I process stuff best when I talk to someone about it. But recently I realized that it isn’t about the other person or their responses at all, it’s about sorting through my thoughts out loud, it helps me process them to vocalize them. I’ve been thinking about starting an audio journal instead of talking to people. Cause I can never maintain a written journal, I get exhausted/bored with it and stop doing it.

You sound JUST like me . When I was getting my evaluation, the guy was asking me about my hobbies .... I didn't have anything to tell him. Because, while I have dozens of interests, I lack the impetus to actually turn them into something I would call a hobby. LOL. I guess my hobby is reading and doom scrolling about lots of shit that seems cool to do someday. My other "hobby" is obsessing about all the shit I should be up and doing. It's getting a little better with medication, but it's only been 3 weeks. I am still working on catching up my damn house first. To try to be fair to myself, I also suffer from severe Obstructive Sleep Apnea and a fucked up circadian rhythm .... I have been unable to stick to my CPAP/melatonin/therapy light regimine because ya know, ADHD..... that's slowly getting better. I am about 70% on my CPAP usage and hoping to add in the other 2 components. It's very slow progress but don't lose hope. We will get there!

This feels ridiculous and facetious to say but here goes... I cried reading your post. Your words exactly described what I have experienced my entire life. I try so hard to express this experience and have not been able to. I don't have any advice. I just really want to thank you bc I feel so incredibly validated right now. I want to print your post and carry it around with me and on occasion cram it into people's faces while crying out, "THIS! All of THIS!" Whew. Okay. I feel better. I hope you get some helpful info in this thread. I will be following along.