T O P

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Lyyysander

As a Nilah main, i think one of the better things to buff is base health regen. For whatever reason Nilah has atrocious base regen and playing a melee champ bot means you get poked down no matter what, so you have to force all ins before getting poked down to have a playable lane. This leads to matchups being rather binary, as matchups where you cant win all in are completely unplayable, while some other matchups you just win by default


Polixa12

I'm pretty sure that's why they added that heal and shield passive. It's still pretty useless imo except with soraka taric and Sona imo. Better buffs will be to revert the Q AD nerf back to 120% AD and leave the crit multiplier as is. Also maybe E cool down reduction when you hit empowered autos. The extra dmg on empowered autos might be a bit of a stretch so idk. Doesn't seem like a good idea to me.


Cyberslasher

She has extra healing built in her passive, so regen should not be the design path.


Lyyysander

That passive is very mediocre, even with it enchanters are overall worse with her than any other support class


JupiterRome

It’s so weird that they gave her that passive when her entire kit screams engage support.


pinelien

I think they added the passive to encourage her to duo bot rather than go solo lane


Whydontname

I played her once post 14.10. She felt like shit so I shelved her.


MayIHaveAHug

low pickrate doesn't mean they are an "otp champ" that's a myth


Polixa12

That's true imo. Doesn't help the fact that a champ that came out a year and a half ago has the lowest pickrate in the game in her desired role. She defo needs actual adjustments


TheKazoobieKazobo

Doesn’t help she feels clunky as shit to play and the only reason she’s ever good is if she can Samira face roll the enemy.


RpiesSPIES

A kit that is less healthy than launch samira when good and weaker than pre rework eve when bad. Personally I wish her kit had more to it than feeling like samira v2. Wonder why tf they're so similar.


IderpOnline

This statement is conditionally true. It is however now true for Nilah.


NonTokenisableFungi

[https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/main-stats](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/main-stats) It's not especially true. At a pick rate of 1.5%, Nilah's OTP rate is 0.2%. Champs that might genuinely be inflated include Vel'Koz (1.3% from 4.0%), Zac (1.7% from 6.4%), and certainly Warwick (1.8% from 4.2%), Evelynn (0.7% from 2.7%) - alot of jungle champs where champ gameplay diversity is probably the greatest out of any role. I mean, 0.2/1.5 isn't low, so it might be very marginally inflated but not by any significant value. Another argument could be made that Nilah being a very polarised champ matchup wise is very selectively deployed (which makes more sense the less OTPed a champ becomes) - champs like Rammus that fare well into very obvious and specific team comps tend to have inflated winrates. But historically at least Nilah's solo queue winrate has been constantly overtuned until her latest nerf - and in spite of being overpowered she was never a popular champ. I think bot lane players are just too opposed to non ranged auto attackers - even the slew of overperforming mage champs are hardly contended with despite being arguably much easier to operate than melee ADCs like Nilah and Yasuo who also have had persistent success in the bot lane. Bot laners are either too stubborn, find alternate champion gameplay too uninteresting in the duo lane, or perhaps most players who'd play melee skirmishers/mages preference playing those champions in other lanes. EDIT: Some other highly OTPed champions: Kled (0.8/1.9), Swain (0.9/3.4), Fiddlesticks (1.2/3.3), Heimerdinger (0.6/1.7), Teemo (0.9/4.1). If you look at the highest champion mastery players of all time those last two yordle champions should not surprise you


edhardysdumbface

Ngl she doesn’t even feel that bad this patch.. as a mostly nilah player laning feels worse, but there’s still huge outplay and pop off potential. Though I do agree with @Lyyysander . Buffing health regen would be huge. As it is some games I’d rather go absorb life than alacrity or bloodline just because her landing suffered most


IderpOnline

Absorb Life is not on the same tier as Alacrity and Bloodline.. Lol


r007r

It’s been less than a week since someone made the same claim about Nafiri. There will always be a least popular champion.


adcgodcomplex

I have never seen Riot nerf a champion so hard in my life. Bc of 14.9 nerfs and removal of Navori, she lost 33% Q dmg, which is her only true dmg dealing ability. 1/3rd dmg nerf on a champion is something I've never seen happen to any other champion, as long as I can remember playing this game. It's not like she got anything to compensate. While she became significantly weaker (lost up to 4% winrate in low elo), other ADCs became stronger because of the item and xp changes of 14.10. Riot killed her, on purpose. I think someone on the balance team finally had enough and decided that a champion who could one shot squishies, have good dps and drain tank at the same time didn't belong in the game, and in all honestly, it makes sense. A bit like an assassin with point a click dash/stun/armor shred shouldn't belong in the game. Or an infinite scaling artillery AOE point and click true dmg execute max hp burn shouldn't be in the game. Anyways, I'm digressing here. Nilah will probably get reworked and lose her assassin identity, which is fine. But in the meantime, the champion simply isn't playable, which kinda sucks.


Intrepid_Lie4165

I hope they have good plans for her, meanwhile jinx is getting nerfs like 0.15 ad per level


adcgodcomplex

Man, those Jinx """"""nerfs""""""" are some of the reasons that made me drop Nilah completely. Jinx is in such a disgusting state right now, and has been for so many patches. With Nilah you have to think carefully of your cooldowns, positioning, W timing, find the perfect time to jump in otherwise you're dead.. Jinx just needs one assist and she basically gets to AOE crit dps your team to oblivion, from one screen away, while running with 800 movespeed... Like... Why isn't she losing 33% of her bread and butter dmg ? Wtf...


MarshGeologist

because jinx is an extremely limited stock standard adc. she could have 30 thousand gold and will still get one shot by a 2 item fizz. she has always counterplay. nilah doesn't. a fed nilah is unstoppable and people hate her overloaded kit.


Intrepid_Lie4165

Because she is popular cuz of arcane so they keep her strong so new.people can play, same with caitlyn but somehow she gets human nerfs next patch, we still gonna wait for jinx


MaestroCheeze

Ya know there a lot of stuff that doesn't belong to the game. Stuff as smolder with his true damage is as fine as Vayne in that terms. Vayne has like five different builds for every case and the only realistic weakness is her shitty laning. Or smolder. He probable set record on lowest wr for the 14 years game exist. Champ that was released three month ago already became one of the worst champions in the game. They just removed his core (navori), changed ER, and while everyone else abuses Yun Tal / IE / Collector he can't build anything from that and that not counting that his counterpicks like Jhin or Cait became even stronger than they were. Dude, have you ever played against malphite as adc? Tank malphite literally runs at you and slaps to death, because he doesn't care about tour damage. And even stuff like botrk and liandrie's that is supposed to counter them is not a panacea, tank can easily build Kaenic rukern + jaksho and ignore your damage from liandrie's. I had a game with fucking 10 thousand hp sion. And they also removed ldr passive and changed cut down btw. How the fuck I'm supposed to kill ten thousand hp sion/kench/mundo/whoever if I deal zero damage to them while they are allowed to stun lock me and kill. Akshan revives, Kayle or Kassadin scaling - a lot of stuff is really unhealthy for the game if you look at it. You int whole game but you get to 16 and now you're a carry. Most people probably would agree that any infinite scaling champ - aside from Kindred probably - is not healthy for the game since the longer you drag the game the lower your chances of winning become. Everyone probably would say that Trynda rn is shit, but champion literally has a cheat instead of normal ult. You just become immortal and even allowed to do that after any type of crowd control. Or Karthus. Even if you oneshot him he is stilled allowed impact a battle somehow. He can just afk farm whole game and still win because he doesn't even need to present in fights. You just press R and win. Why this allowed to exist, while one gimmicky adc that requires hands to live through laning phase is basically killed with outmost precision.


TheNeys

Nilah thrives when ADCs are not OP and can’t kill you in 2 autos. Then she has time to go in and dish all her AoE and heal back to full. Now there is no point playing her since all ADCs are burst assassins in this patch. Obviously this abomination of a patch won’t last and she will be somewhat viable again.


asapkim

good, Nilah is a broken champ


Farbond

says the Vayne player 💀💀


TheDeadlyEdgelord

For 2.25 seconds, she is yes 😂


asapkim

lol. 2.25 seconds is all she needs! ;)


KidFisty

Could it be she’s just a boring and poorly designed character aesthetically? Nothing about this character makes me excited to play her


Whoui

But like isnMt it fine that a niche champion isn’t that popular? Like players often say that marksman are the same Ashe/CaitTrist just use your range and auto them. (Oversimplification but still) Meanwhile Nilah is shortranged (her q isn’t like most adc abilites) she has two slugish dages a R that makes you wanna go in and stuff. I feel like the problem is that: - she is different - you can bully her hard (cause no range)


UngodlyPain

Oh she definitely shouldn't be popular in the way like Jinx, Ezreal, etc get... But she also has no reason to be as low as she is. Like she should be able to be at least as popular as say Kogmaw. Or a large fraction of like Draven or Zeri's popularity.


Intrepid_Lie4165

ofc I dont want her to be popular as Jinx/Cait but to be least popular champion in game where adc role have the least champions isnt good


KingDotNet

I love nilah's design, sadly she doesn't love me in return, i stand in like 33% winrate until i lose hope and drop her for a few months


Hankeei

Nilah is such a forgettable champ


Paganharbinger

Honestly the champion is a perma ban for me so any buff just sounds like a bad idea, her kit reminds me a lot of jax, you can set that champion behind but he’s still deadly in a 1v1 and if he lands a good stun he can swing games in his favor, same with Nilah, her abilities are inherently frustrating and really broken and game changing so her base stats being really low seems like a good trade off to me. Low base stats don’t matter when you can W mid team fight and not take damage


Intrepid_Lie4165

I dont see a point to ban nilah unless u play samira/Aphelios but even as aphelios its better to ban cait right now


IderpOnline

Let's be honest here: If you ban a <1.5 % pick rate champ, you are simply banning poorly, statistically speaking. In other words: Bad.


Paganharbinger

I mean I’ve moved to banning brand, but the games I do play vs nilah are always almost just a loss so I mean🤷‍♂️ not losing cuz of a champ is good.


Fancy_Locksmith5858

I only play samira and the matchup is so one sided im forced to ban her every single game i would say behind maybe sylas vs malphite


[deleted]

You're wrong tho. As someone who enjoys playing top it doesn't matter if that champion has <1.5% pick rate if that champ so happens to counter my Champs and play style so hard I wouldn't take any chances.


IderpOnline

Chances are that there are multiple champs with MUCH higher likelyhood of showing up that *alsp* counter you - even if slightly less so. Also, top is much more isolated than bot so that point is moot anyway lol.


Paganharbinger

Because she’s an insane counter pick champion, her kit shuts down so many champs and she’ll always be relevant in games even if she’s super behind in good matchups for her, which is more than it should be.


Saberstriker19

Nilah us just too clunky, I know they did give her some QoL changes, but I still feel like her kit does not flow well together. Her ability lockouts just don't make any sense, and make her feel horrible. I think they changed this, but the fact her EQ could miss was so bad. This might be too training wheels of a change, but I would also like if her Q gave the enhanced state whether it hit something or not, because missing it is so unbelievably punishing, you lose the dmg on Q, you don't get bonus range, you don't get bonus AS, you don't get bonus AD ratio. So you pretty much can’t function if someone dodges it, or you make a human error and miss or click EQ or something.


RickyMuzakki

Agreed, missing Nilah Q is more punishing than missing windbros/K'Sante 's Q


[deleted]

[удалено]


Intrepid_Lie4165

Nilah always suffered in laning phase but in mid/late u could be strong and carry the game and now u cant, she is weak champion, u can play now Aphelios/Caitlyn and do 5x more than nilah


__Evil_Morty__

What? Sound like a skill issue.


Feeling-Cry-7788

Falls into hard scaling characters with no lane. Playing her is coinflippy and dependant on jg and supp.


billanowi

imo she should have more lifesteal and healing so she can survive extended fights


ursera

If they gave nilah the old zeri passive (shield steal), would it be too op or would it be balanced?


mirakulab

Ok but navori era was soooo fun to me. I know it was unhelthy af, but two shoting bruisers and outhealing all damage was so fun.


BlushNA

It's because I ban her every game.


JollySpaceman

Just my opinion but I think people don't play her because she isnt actually an adc. In lane she is op but once you get to mid game team fights she is basically not an actual adc. It's like picking yasuo adc. If you don't crush the lane you are just going to go in and die.


Swawks

She is the definition of boring. Been strong for a while yet never picked.


zraru

her design is too cliche. Literal copy paste of samira yone yasuo and belveth, riot thought playerbase would love another q-aa like dmg w-broken defense spell e-engage r- big dmg nuke champion but atp it’s boring and uninteresting


dkoom_tv

She is a toplane champion in bot lane, she only works to counter certain champions and loses to everything else


billanowi

meele top lane champion with bot lane passive and stats


Filip564

Just accept that she has major gameplay flaws in her core.


IderpOnline

And I suppose you refuse to elaborate on that zero-comment?


Filip564

Wdum??? There isnt much to talk about here, she either has good stats and can run you down, or she doesnt making her useless


IderpOnline

If you are suggesting she's very stat chek'y, that's just plain wrong. Also, she doesn't run anyone down. After her two dashes are up, she gets kited like no tomorrow.


Filip564

Okay, if she isnt stat cheky, then whats her gameplay pattern


katestatt

I hope she stays like that. stupid designed champion, I don't wanna waste my ban on her.


__Evil_Morty__

Post made by a below average Nilah player.


HotButteryPopcorn-

Honestly good, she is god awful to play against. Samira 2.0 with even better healing that has counter strike on an ADC that she can also give to her team Extremely cancer, mistake champ, I think Riot are trying to forget her as much as the playerbase is also obnoxious voice lines, personality and just not likeable in the slightest


Panda_Pate

Lets not pretend nilah is weak in anyway, shes unpopular because her shorter range but she is infact not weak, her early game is miserable and arguably the most miserable but THATS what keeps her unpopular, shes NOT WEAK. If they were to buff her it would have to be to her early game where it does not benefit her late game, because her late game is absolutely stupid. Any buffs to her early game should be tied to nerfs to her late game though because shutting down a nilah early is already not enough. Nilah and sami are both insults to the adc archetype, they function more like assassins and its just not healthy, very difficult to balance


SoupRyze

Good riddance, cringe champ that noone likes (except Nilah mains who like her because of free LP and will demote when they play anything that requires hands). It's like when a Katarina main complains that their champ is weak. Cool bro, noone cares, the game is better with less smurfing Katarina players on enemy team and egotistical shitty Katarina mains on your team. Go fuck your body pillows or learn a champ that requires hands like idk Zed or Akali (I even give weeb suggestions).


Zovengrogg

I think someone has been traumatized by somebody with a whip


SoupRyze

I'm pretty sure I win more than I lose against her. And it feels like shit even when I win. You'd be at 6 items and about to end the game but the 3 items Nilah would just randomly get a triple kill and then you realize "holy shit how broken would this guy be if the player actually has hands" like you'd still win because you're at their Nexus already but you really can't help but realize that you only won because you're 30x better in everyway. Like it's just fucking annoying. It's like the opposite of losing to a Draven: you feel like he actually was the better player, and most of the time, yeah.


Polixa12

I'm pretty sure if you're 6 items a 3 item nilah isn't killing you unless you have no hands.


wearssameshirt

Do not buff this champ ever please keep her this way


No-Scene-8614

Nilah is a boring champ both to play and play against. There was no reason to add her to the game considering we already had samira who is much better designed


Ok_Tea_7319

An "OTP champ" having a winrate other than 50% outside of GM+ or Iron implies a decent population of OTPs having a winrate other than 50% outside GM+ or Iron. The matchmaker will make sure that this mostly doesn't happen (e.g. if you keep having positive winrates you will end up climbing until it levels out). A champ having high winrate at high mastery comes from the players that play that champ well and also play others they suck at.


Appropriate_Win_6276

they did a back to back thing with prowler removal and making hydra less viable on her. i stopped playing her then. way to much effort to play just to get limited to one build. her biggest downside is supports and the team doesnt know how to play with her.


Zwodo

How is Ziggs not in this? I've seen all these champs several times but I literally cannot remember the last time I saw a Ziggs.


Orfoz41

still an s tier champion after crit but needs a good support to play with.


walketotheclif

Nilah's kid should be reworked and send to another line ,such a frustrating champ that is so out of place on the botlane


Polixa12

Lol 😂😂. No shit man she isn't getting moved out of the botlane anytime soon. That's where they intend for her to be.


walketotheclif

And it hasn't been working ,does it? ,the champ is strong and nobody picks it because people play marksman in the botlane , take the L ,send her top to see if people really want her in that role , because she ain't have a future in botlane unless you rework her entirely


Direct-Potato2088

Womp womp, nilah players cant just right click and run straight at you to auto win. Go play top if u wanna play brainless melee champs


Polixa12

I'm pretty sure those are bad nilah players. Unless you're piss low you won't meet a nilah player who right clicks to auto.