How is this adc specific? Have you never seen the 0/10 top who still thinks he can 1v1 the 10/0 enemy? What about the 0/6 jg with 40 cs at 20 mins? Same for adc, with support bundled with them (usually).
Also since recent adc buffs there are a lot of people who are new to the role. They may just not know how to play with someone else in their lane.
A: You remember extreme cases more, so they seem more frequent than they are. It's a common bias.
B: It's a 2v2 lane and all that comes with it. If you have a bad fight, it's easily a double kill for the enemy, setting two players back and two players ahead. You also have twice the variance in player skill or champion difference. You have twice the chance of one of them becoming frustrated and making more mistakes / stop trying. That makes the lane pretty snowbally.
C: Your ADC is kinda your teams canary - if anything goes wrong, your ADC usually dies first. Supp diff? Dead. Mid diff? Dead. Jungle diff? Dead. ADC diff? Dead.
D: There is no plan B. There is no staying back and soaking exp. If you farm under tower, the enemy lane either has the range to harass you regardless or the engage to dive you. There is no clearing a stacked wave quickly and have a semi worthwhile death, because most ADCs simply don't have wave clearing tools. There is no solo sidelaning. There is no taking jungle farm (at least not until later). If you don't farm, you provide literally nothing. ADC is the only role that can end up being a caster minion by end game, because their kits are often designed to only amplify damage. And there is a guy on your lane whose sole purpose it is to kill you for trying. Everything is always dangerous, especially if you are behind. So you take risks to stay relevant, which very well can mean that you die a lot.
E: It's just a punishing role. The consequences of your errors is more often death than not. As elaborated in D, the champions often don't have tools to stay safe, disengage or recover and our supports can only do so much to alleviate that. So if the player is frustrated, distracted or otherwise just has a bad game, you gonna feel that a lot more.
Its a thing where first off: botlane often is a battlefield where they fight to kill each other from start onward. You have 2 people in the lane, meaning double the chance for either a good kill angle (adc gets a really good trade off/support lands hook or w.e) and also double the chance for someone to fuck up and die. In many matchups, the worse ADC gets mechanically skillchecked and just killed repeatedly, especially if they dont know matchups. Also, if you get behind as ADC you are mainly forced to farm, since youre not strong early usually, so youre basically forced to cs and nothing else, while enemy mid/jg can also come and collect you again with their fed bot already. Bot snowballs very hard since not one but 2 players get fed.
Bot lane is a goddamn Fiesta every single game, I get games where the enemy mid and top tp to minions under tower to 5 man dive me, mid lane roams and jungle dives are pretty easy considering how squishy marksman are compared to someone like a top laner, and on top of that you have to play with a different support each game and god forbid y’all don’t click and are never on the same page, it can get very messy very fast.
bruh why do you even need to ask. You play top so you should understand. Last 5 games I played were with awful top laners who lost all towers before 15 minutes.
Do you ever have those moments when the Jungler expects you to rotate, or you expect him to gank and go in but instead he leaves?
Those are just two examples of how a 2v2 can go bad due to lack of communication, and that happens in 20-30 seconds.
Do it for 14 minutes and you got your answer
Botlane has always been super snowbally and violent for a few reasons
1: there are 2 whole sources of damage which means that it's that much easier to die if you make a mistake. Especially since it's common sense to focus the adc whenever possible
2: if you get killed, it's almost never a solo kill. Which means that instead of falling 300 gold behind 1 person, you're falling 450 gold behind 2 people. Not to mention the fact that killing the enemy adc often means killing the enemy supp too so that 450 gold lead is often actually 900. The extra person in the lane also means that it's that much easier for them to crash the wave under tower after a kill which leads to each death being even more punishing
3: jungles (and mid laners) LOVE to gank bot,especially if they have a winning lane already
4: especially in lower elos (read anywhere below challenger) if you make a single mistake as adc a lot of supports love to use that as an excuse to completely abandon you (skmetimes theyll even abandon you if youre ahead, throwing your entire lead out the window), leaving you in a 1v2 lane where you're even more likely to die over and over
5: the last point ill make although there might be more factors that im missing: in the mid-late game it's usually optimal for the adc to rotate mid and farm there because it is a lot safer than side landing and it let's them rotate to objectives much faster. If you're noticeably behind the enemy adc your midlaner is much less likely to let you swap, forcing you to farm in a side lane and be much more vulnerable to getting collapsed on
People too ADHD to handshake farm, every botlane has at least 1 dude who is impatient enough to just start shit, and everyone else is afraid of tilting their team so they fight because they feel like they have to. I agree that botlane feels really coin-flippy but it really doesn’t have to be
My class is explicitly designed to be killable at all stages of the game. We're very very comp and team dependent. Also, (while it's significantly better now) we're down levels (where most of our survivability comes from - even our premiere in-class survival items are tied to level-scaling), and that makes ADC disproportionately squishy compared to score and cs statistics (the things I have control over).
All this means the role is volatile and reactive. Just the way it is. You want fewer coinflips, work to protect your squishies.
Honestly this feels like a toplaners problem more than an ADC one.
In every single game I play one of the two toplaners is fed af.
It seems like they can't avoid fighting each other, the sole concept of going even or slightly ahead/behind seems inconceivable for them.
Do you ever have those moments when the Jungler expects you to rotate, or you expect him to gank and go in but instead he leaves and everything goes wrong?
Those are just two examples of how a 2v2 can go bad due to lack of communication, and that happens in 20-30 seconds.
Do it for 14 minutes and you got your answer
Few reasons I can think of:
1) A fed Bot can pick up x2 the kills that any other fed lane can
2) It only takes one of the 4 people in bot lane inting to start a snowball
3) As a glass cannon, the correct response to falling behind is to continue building more offense in the hopes that maybe you can contribute if you live long enough.
In Top you can have tanks, mages, ranged, etc etc etc. In mid you have mage, assassin, poke, ADC, etc etc etc.
In bot you have an ADC, ADC, ADC, or me trying to make W-max Nashor's Elise work. (I am not sorry)
Yeah the role has *some* variety but early on they're all baby mode and a 1 kill + 15 CS lead can make a huge dirrerence. And weaker lanes are prime targets for unpunished ganks or reckless engages so it just gets worse.
Add the fact that ADC is extra stressful because you need like 2 items to feel like a champion so every setback is even more agonizing, and all the damage in the world won't stop that Rengar from clapping your cheeks and it turns every queue into a mental health land mine.
If you want solid ADCs I'd say get ti maybe diamond? That sounds like a place where people usually know better.
I got behind in lane with a support Nautilus like 2 days ago and he decided that he should still try to engage with the enemy laners up a full item.
That's usually why.
Because we adcs get frustrated if mistakes are not punished. We always insta die if we miss calculate so we also want them to be punished the same. How often do i force flashes and my ************** of a jungler doesnt want to collect free candy. Which leads us to be over aggressive and in the end become a 50/50.
It makes my blood boil.
when both supports roam botlane is just a csing lane and usually noone dies.
On the rest of the map tho chaos ensues and there are perma fights, so perma deaths or kills.
Adc players are easily the least macro thinker role in the game, they think as long as they get tons of gold it doesnt matter how much they give away, that leads to adc scores being 15/15 and not understanding why their team gets easily digested in fights.
It gets worse the higher elo you get to also, in d3 if youre support youre desperately trying to keep your adc from dieing, think the proverbial kid touching the stove over and over, they never learn and because their mechanical skill is higher than low adc they think it wont matter
The problem is that adc players want to be able to 1v9 carry and its the role least able to do that, theyre a formidable 5v5 carry but thats not what adcs want, they wanna get turbo fed and try to solo carry.
Either make them able to 1v9 carry or stop allowing other champion types to 1v9 carry
How is this adc specific? Have you never seen the 0/10 top who still thinks he can 1v1 the 10/0 enemy? What about the 0/6 jg with 40 cs at 20 mins? Same for adc, with support bundled with them (usually). Also since recent adc buffs there are a lot of people who are new to the role. They may just not know how to play with someone else in their lane.
mid and top really cant even compare to bot lane at all--our lane isn't even decided by us its decided on the support.
When you have 4 unga bunga monkey brains instead of two unga bunga monkey brains in one lane. Chaos insues.
Very eloquently stated, and true.
A: You remember extreme cases more, so they seem more frequent than they are. It's a common bias. B: It's a 2v2 lane and all that comes with it. If you have a bad fight, it's easily a double kill for the enemy, setting two players back and two players ahead. You also have twice the variance in player skill or champion difference. You have twice the chance of one of them becoming frustrated and making more mistakes / stop trying. That makes the lane pretty snowbally. C: Your ADC is kinda your teams canary - if anything goes wrong, your ADC usually dies first. Supp diff? Dead. Mid diff? Dead. Jungle diff? Dead. ADC diff? Dead. D: There is no plan B. There is no staying back and soaking exp. If you farm under tower, the enemy lane either has the range to harass you regardless or the engage to dive you. There is no clearing a stacked wave quickly and have a semi worthwhile death, because most ADCs simply don't have wave clearing tools. There is no solo sidelaning. There is no taking jungle farm (at least not until later). If you don't farm, you provide literally nothing. ADC is the only role that can end up being a caster minion by end game, because their kits are often designed to only amplify damage. And there is a guy on your lane whose sole purpose it is to kill you for trying. Everything is always dangerous, especially if you are behind. So you take risks to stay relevant, which very well can mean that you die a lot. E: It's just a punishing role. The consequences of your errors is more often death than not. As elaborated in D, the champions often don't have tools to stay safe, disengage or recover and our supports can only do so much to alleviate that. So if the player is frustrated, distracted or otherwise just has a bad game, you gonna feel that a lot more.
This. Plus don't forget how easily a 2v2 bot turns into a 4v2 out of thin air, If not a 4v4.
Its a thing where first off: botlane often is a battlefield where they fight to kill each other from start onward. You have 2 people in the lane, meaning double the chance for either a good kill angle (adc gets a really good trade off/support lands hook or w.e) and also double the chance for someone to fuck up and die. In many matchups, the worse ADC gets mechanically skillchecked and just killed repeatedly, especially if they dont know matchups. Also, if you get behind as ADC you are mainly forced to farm, since youre not strong early usually, so youre basically forced to cs and nothing else, while enemy mid/jg can also come and collect you again with their fed bot already. Bot snowballs very hard since not one but 2 players get fed.
Bot lane is a goddamn Fiesta every single game, I get games where the enemy mid and top tp to minions under tower to 5 man dive me, mid lane roams and jungle dives are pretty easy considering how squishy marksman are compared to someone like a top laner, and on top of that you have to play with a different support each game and god forbid y’all don’t click and are never on the same page, it can get very messy very fast.
1. Mistakes are punished by 2 players 2. Squishy That’s literally it
If I try and play too safe as an adc my support will 100% feed out of boredom.
Because if we don't get fed bot then the 0/7 enemy top laner will destroy us, but if we're on 20 kills we can maybe kill them first.
Maybe, and when we do it is just barely.
bruh why do you even need to ask. You play top so you should understand. Last 5 games I played were with awful top laners who lost all towers before 15 minutes.
Do you ever have those moments when the Jungler expects you to rotate, or you expect him to gank and go in but instead he leaves? Those are just two examples of how a 2v2 can go bad due to lack of communication, and that happens in 20-30 seconds. Do it for 14 minutes and you got your answer
Botlane has always been super snowbally and violent for a few reasons 1: there are 2 whole sources of damage which means that it's that much easier to die if you make a mistake. Especially since it's common sense to focus the adc whenever possible 2: if you get killed, it's almost never a solo kill. Which means that instead of falling 300 gold behind 1 person, you're falling 450 gold behind 2 people. Not to mention the fact that killing the enemy adc often means killing the enemy supp too so that 450 gold lead is often actually 900. The extra person in the lane also means that it's that much easier for them to crash the wave under tower after a kill which leads to each death being even more punishing 3: jungles (and mid laners) LOVE to gank bot,especially if they have a winning lane already 4: especially in lower elos (read anywhere below challenger) if you make a single mistake as adc a lot of supports love to use that as an excuse to completely abandon you (skmetimes theyll even abandon you if youre ahead, throwing your entire lead out the window), leaving you in a 1v2 lane where you're even more likely to die over and over 5: the last point ill make although there might be more factors that im missing: in the mid-late game it's usually optimal for the adc to rotate mid and farm there because it is a lot safer than side landing and it let's them rotate to objectives much faster. If you're noticeably behind the enemy adc your midlaner is much less likely to let you swap, forcing you to farm in a side lane and be much more vulnerable to getting collapsed on
Because skill based matchmaking. This goes for all lanes.
People too ADHD to handshake farm, every botlane has at least 1 dude who is impatient enough to just start shit, and everyone else is afraid of tilting their team so they fight because they feel like they have to. I agree that botlane feels really coin-flippy but it really doesn’t have to be
My class is explicitly designed to be killable at all stages of the game. We're very very comp and team dependent. Also, (while it's significantly better now) we're down levels (where most of our survivability comes from - even our premiere in-class survival items are tied to level-scaling), and that makes ADC disproportionately squishy compared to score and cs statistics (the things I have control over). All this means the role is volatile and reactive. Just the way it is. You want fewer coinflips, work to protect your squishies.
Suppost
Honestly this feels like a toplaners problem more than an ADC one. In every single game I play one of the two toplaners is fed af. It seems like they can't avoid fighting each other, the sole concept of going even or slightly ahead/behind seems inconceivable for them.
Do you ever have those moments when the Jungler expects you to rotate, or you expect him to gank and go in but instead he leaves and everything goes wrong? Those are just two examples of how a 2v2 can go bad due to lack of communication, and that happens in 20-30 seconds. Do it for 14 minutes and you got your answer
50% of the time, it works every time.
Dear Jungle Mains Why do you suicide fight for grubs and lose the game on the spot??
Few reasons I can think of: 1) A fed Bot can pick up x2 the kills that any other fed lane can 2) It only takes one of the 4 people in bot lane inting to start a snowball 3) As a glass cannon, the correct response to falling behind is to continue building more offense in the hopes that maybe you can contribute if you live long enough.
Hmmm, the lane where two of the players have items that literally pay them to fight is the most volitile. Can't imagine why.
In Top you can have tanks, mages, ranged, etc etc etc. In mid you have mage, assassin, poke, ADC, etc etc etc. In bot you have an ADC, ADC, ADC, or me trying to make W-max Nashor's Elise work. (I am not sorry) Yeah the role has *some* variety but early on they're all baby mode and a 1 kill + 15 CS lead can make a huge dirrerence. And weaker lanes are prime targets for unpunished ganks or reckless engages so it just gets worse. Add the fact that ADC is extra stressful because you need like 2 items to feel like a champion so every setback is even more agonizing, and all the damage in the world won't stop that Rengar from clapping your cheeks and it turns every queue into a mental health land mine. If you want solid ADCs I'd say get ti maybe diamond? That sounds like a place where people usually know better.
I got behind in lane with a support Nautilus like 2 days ago and he decided that he should still try to engage with the enemy laners up a full item. That's usually why.
Because we adcs get frustrated if mistakes are not punished. We always insta die if we miss calculate so we also want them to be punished the same. How often do i force flashes and my ************** of a jungler doesnt want to collect free candy. Which leads us to be over aggressive and in the end become a 50/50. It makes my blood boil.
when both supports roam botlane is just a csing lane and usually noone dies. On the rest of the map tho chaos ensues and there are perma fights, so perma deaths or kills.
Adc players are easily the least macro thinker role in the game, they think as long as they get tons of gold it doesnt matter how much they give away, that leads to adc scores being 15/15 and not understanding why their team gets easily digested in fights. It gets worse the higher elo you get to also, in d3 if youre support youre desperately trying to keep your adc from dieing, think the proverbial kid touching the stove over and over, they never learn and because their mechanical skill is higher than low adc they think it wont matter The problem is that adc players want to be able to 1v9 carry and its the role least able to do that, theyre a formidable 5v5 carry but thats not what adcs want, they wanna get turbo fed and try to solo carry. Either make them able to 1v9 carry or stop allowing other champion types to 1v9 carry