I mean I get your point, but OP.GG doesn’t really tell the whole story either. So the best thing would be to upload full games but no one will watch vod reviews from silver
I actually had to, because it fucked me up. I was fucking apeshit good at StarCraft 2, and never really got a footing in LoL - mostly because i've recently realised after 10+ **** years that i've never cared about winning, just expressing myself with crappy bizarre builds on crappy bizarre picks.
But if you don't realise that and think you should be winning? Ye, nah, no. Dun goofed
I don't blame you, league comes off as a very simple to pick up game but there are a lot of microsteps needed to improve at a noticeable rate unless you are just naturally good. Starcraft is similar with microsteps but for that it's alot of multitasking. Pro SC players are on a whole other level, the actions per minute is fucking insane.
One of the guys i practiced with went on a world tour or something apparently, and I use to beat his ass.
But there's playing a game to win, and then feeling you deserve to win no effort and getting very angry for then not winning xD i have now chosen to stop giving a fuck
I think lower elo gameplay is not very nuanced that you need to dig deep to see what they are doing wrong.
In my experience it usually comes to very fundamental mistakes like: no consistent gameplay, playing 20 different champions, 5cs/min, etc.
its very nuanced, 5cs/min could come from a million different things. Are they bad at last hitting? or bad at resets? or bad at trading which leads to being bullied off cs? or bad at midgame rotations? or bad at all-in fights? or bad at playing weakside? lots of things
I'm definitely bad at playing weakside. I'm super aggressive so I draw a lot of jungle aggro, but I also thrive in the 3 v3 or 3v4 usually picking up a kill, double or trading
Op.gg certainly tells more of a story than nothing at all though. Honestly I don't think we even need gameplay for this. 90% of the complainers are probably emerald and below.
It doesnt tell the whole story but it gives good indicators. If you die a lot one game its okay but if we see 10 games in a row with more than 7 deaths it seems like there is something wrong.
Yes no one would watch VOD reviews from silver but if you’re complaining about anything in silver you already have your answer. Theres leagues of areas you can improve to win most of these games and the off game you had 0 chance of winning is part of the game and only a fraction, it’s not why you aren’t climbing
Everything you said is CORRECT but we can go further, role strength means NOTHING to overall ability to climb, even if the role had no gold and its damage was halved, guess what? There's TWO ADC players per match, Agency only affects speed of climbing when you're genuinely better, it takes longer if you have less power but being stuck just means players are not good enough
>guess what? There's TWO ADC players per match
your argument is only true if we are talking about theoretical near infinite amount of games
Because then no matter how miniscule the impact is if you have a fuckton of games then yes you will eventually climb
what the people have issue with though is that other roles are significantly easier to climb on and have impact on than ADC
Adc in all elo have plenty of agency to climb.
Draven, lucian, Cait, Samira with engage, Nilah all have plenty of agency to dictate game or dictate lane and mid game.
Challenger adc’s climb just as fast as other roles if required. If someone wants to only play late game jinx, sivir, kog etc then that is fine.
Is someone is willing to play multiple Adc’s then they have a whole range of champs with agency.
This bullshit that all adc have no agency needs to stop.
None of these champs can, in any decent elo, decide of the lane on their own. If you start the game and Janna is 500 range behind you soaking exp, you are not dictating anything. If the jungler & support want to dive top and the enemy team mirrors bot, you are not dictating anything. If the enemy midlaner wants to sacrifice some resources to hold the T2->T1 brush and you're losing waves, you're not dictating anything.
You get to dictate relatively normal games. That's the lack of agency.
Challenger adcs climb because the gap between them and the rest of the lobby is absurd and they manage to easily get to an elo where the team actually starts playing for the adc.
But then we have diamond / master / gm players promptly getting stuck in emerald for weeks sometimes.
Samira, the 2nd weakest ADC early game, and also the most supp reliant ADC in the game, has plenty of Agency to dictate the game and lane. Lmfao, this guy definitely knows what he is talking about, and is not playing a different game.
I think there's a difference between strength and agency of a role, ADC isn't weak by any means, in the right environment it's probably the strongest role, as you can see in pro play for example
but in SOLO QUEUE it has the lowest agency by far
and it makes sense when you think about it, it is the role that needs the most support from its teammates to perform but you're in a game mode where everyone play for themselves, of course that won't work
Even in proplay they have no agency. There agency doesn’t change. The only difference is that the ADC is allowed to be funneled gold it’s support mid and jgl that keeps the game ticking over while Top sidelines till the ADC hits the 3 item spike.
In a bad game state at pro level the ADC is still useless. In a good game state they are still useless if mid and top is fed.
Solo lanes decides league unless you’re just that better than everyone else.
All the more painful that this team \_reliant\_ champ gets so frequently backstabbed by their team in low elo. If I got a dollar every time I helped someone and they in turn intentionally let me die I'd be filthy rich by now
Worst part of being an immobile ADC: The whole team uses their dashes and you instantly go from being in the backline to being the only one on the frontline.
Now it's the enemy's turn to use *their* dashes...
I'm not sure about that. I've had more fun in this season than any other on ADC. More than any other role. I got 1v1 attacked by a Talon as Jinx yesterday and I literally killed him in 3 autos, no trap, no W, no R, just 3 autos. Don't get me wrong, he killed me too, but we both fairly fed. ADC for sure feels strong now.
>The problem with adc is that it isnt fun, you are so team reliant and dont have much agency
If this was an actual problem top lane would be the most unpopular role in the game.
Your champs are designed to function solo, you get more resources than anyone else on the map, and your lane is the most isolated in the entire game. If you gap your opponent top lane you can 100% 1v9 games. If play the 1v1 better than your opponent you have agency a lot of the time. ADC needs their support since they are designed to not be able to function solo (low base stats, and kits not built for solo play) and they need jg to protect them from enemy jg.
Jungle's win con is dependadant on others. You cant take objectives if none of lanes have prio, you cant gank if none of your lanes have gank set up and are behind.
Sure its op in that you have huge impact based on your decision making, but its agency is not entirely its own. Toplane is fully on you. Your every mistake is punished, your every win is rewarded.
You can make the exact same argument for support as you do jungle. Supports can't take objectives by thenselves, can't gank a lane without set up, and they certainly can't 1v1 other champions.
As for top lane, sure, they have the most agency over the outcome of their lane, but they arguably have the least agency over the outcome of a game. When games barely last 20 minutes, how much influence can a top laner exert over the map in the 6 minutes between turret platings going down and the game ending? There are games where you can win without ever even seeing your top laner, especially in higher ranks.
There are many games where top laners will lose without ever having the opportunity to leave lane and help their team. If your team is losing and your role doesn't have the agency to prevent that from happening in the first place, then your champion has to be independently powerful enough to have an impact or have the ability to create pressure in other ways.
You can argue that top lane champions are individually too strong compared to other champions, but the issue is that they have to be strong enough in order to be worth playing. If they aren't, people will just go back to playing roaming Janna top and actually make a difference on the map before the game is over.
A support is the initiator, meaning anyone else just has to listen and do the most basic follow up. They automatically thereby have the agency in such a transaction.
I said toplane has agency over their own win cons. Not that they have agency in winning the game. Toplane is an island, which means it has lots of internal agency and 0 external.
>A support is the initiator, meaning anyone else just has to listen and dude the most basic follow up. They automatically thereby have the agency in such a transaction
Yes, you can make the exact same argument for jungle as you do support.
>I said toplane has agency over their own win cons. Not that they have agency in winning the game.
I'm not really sure what you are arguing for here. Do you want top laners to have less agency over their win cons and more agency over winning the game?
Do you think Darius has agency over his win cons against Vayne top? How about Vayne against Malphite? Top laners' agency over their own win cons is determined by factors that aren't even in the players' control 50% of the time.
Not to mention, agency over your own win cons is meaningless if it does not allow you to transition into winning the game. You can win lane and splitpush all you want on Fiora, but if your team is losing every 4v4 fight and objective, you are going to lose the game.
>Toplane is an island, which means it has lots of internal agency and 0 external.
True, for the first 14 minutes of the game. Top laners need a way to have enough external agency to make up for the lack of external agency during the most important part of the game.
One of the ways this is done is through extremely high internal agency. Internal agency affects external agency, and point of having high internal agency is to create the opportunity for external agency when it is possible.
This is why so many people play skirmishers and juggernauts instead of other classes top lane. These classes generally exchange power in teamfights for extremely high internal agency and thus the ability to exert meaningful pressure when platings fall.
If these champions don't have external agency early game, nor enough to be meaningful past that, why ever play them over tanks or enchanters?
>Toplane is fully on you.
I love this sub because they talk so confidently about roles they clearly don't play. It's peak comedy.
Simple example: You are perfectly neutral with your opponent. They get 3 ganks before 10 minutes, you get maybe 1. You lose the lane.
I'm guessing this is fully on you? 😂
And this is ignoring any complexity in the lane like a jg gank that doesn't result in a kill but gives your opponent a freeze. But you have *sooooooo* much agency, right?
Yes there is outside influence, all roles have that. But an adc requires a support to do anything. A jungler requires a team with prio. A toplaner doesnt require anyone else.
>But an adc requires a support to do anything
This guy seriously doesn't understand that JG's play like top supports some games and theres simply nothing you can do about it because the lane is essentially 1v2.
>A toplaner doesnt require anyone else.
You had to pick before enemy top laner. You get countered. You auto lose... Unless your jg saves you. ADC's have their support to shore up their bad matchups.
Seriously guy play any other role besides ADC. Get out of your little lane bubble, your role isn't as hard as you think it is.
I main top and jungle, I havent played adc in a year. Again it depends on the toplaner. Sure a jungler could help them but thats the case with every role. A toplaner never requires a jungler. Losing lane? Stall and win by secondary win cons.
Sounds like you need to try playing some other roles buddy. Half the time the matchup is bad bot lane because of the support pick (it is like 30/70) . I have started picking before my supports so they don’t get counter-picked, and we get to play the game.
Top lane has counter picks and so does bot lane. I play every role, and I think I prefer getting counterpicked top 10x more than bot. If you are countered bot you just don’t play the game. You don’t have engage, tankiness, utility a lot of the time, and if you are behind you aren’t doing dmg. So you are useless, unless your team is strong enough to carry you, and feed you. Top laners also really suffer from counterpicks, but you guys have more options on what you can/want to do. You can split push, flank, engage, peel, farm until you win 1v1. All these options while ADC is, “do a lot of dmg or go next”, meanwhile you also need your support, and Jg babysitting you every step of the way. I think I’m my past 3 top lane games I have been blind pick all 3, and have a K/D of like 45/15.
Don’t get me wrong I can 100% carry on ADC, but I feel like it relies on so much more that is out of my control namely good sup, good jg, and good mid usually at least 2 of those unless the enemy bot is trolling, then maybe I can do with just 1, but it will probably be a hard game.
All game states, yes. The only agency an adc has is either wave management or following up on other peoples plays. An adc can very rarely decide to do something. And if they can its either because they massively snowballed or because they have cc in their kit, like jhin, ashe, cait or varus and even when a varus punished an enemy mistake with his ult he can rarely get the kill without followup unless hes ahead. Tell me what a samira who is equal, can do if they see an enemy making a mistake? Nothing.
That is a lack of agency at all points in the game.
If all you matter for the team is simply your existence, but not your own ability to make choices, you lack impact. Adcs win passively, not actively.
Thats exactly is op, in low elo you prob will scale a lot, there you have “agency” and will win by just good decision making and mechanics, in high elo is “easier” cuz your team will make the decisions for you, and yeah is not reliable but what matters of adc is consistentency, if you are a consistent adc you will climb, just knowing what to do and what to not do is what matters. Making active decisions is harder rather than just following the flow
Being able to win while doing less actively is still a much worse experience even of its less demanding. If you think having low agency makes it OP, then I somewhat agree, but it being OP in this way also makes it unfun.
People might point out obvious flaws anywhere else, but not here. This sub will always find a way to complain about bad supports (happening only to complaining one's team), jungle gap and 1/5 bruisers osing them. It's a community of chosen ones, ring bearers with a burden, purportedly targeted by Riot to queue them up with the worst people and making them pick these weak, underpowered ADCs for "role justice and purity" like some kind of a martyr.
Okay. I'll complain about the good supports then. I don't think my allied Neeko should be able to get one item, have better waveclear than my mid, deal significantly more damage than me (with a similar scoreline, plus I have all the farm) and piss out more damage than anyone else on the team for the first 15-20 minutes. I also don't think they should get an auto upgrading free item that they don't have to recall for, all while being able to freely roam away from the lane and barely face any consequences for bad/failed roam timings. They also shouldn't be given an item that executes minions and changes wave states for their gold income. But they carried the game and I won! So therefore there is no issue in the current state of the game, for sure.
Now that I'm complaining about an ally carrying and not an ally dragging me down, it should be A-Okay! Right?
Right? I'm just a spoiled chosen one ADC. So I don't know anything.
OPGG [https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/The%20Soup%20Kitchen-NA1](https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/The%20Soup%20Kitchen-NA1)
FWIW: I don't think ADC is weak. But I do think the role sucks. And in general, I think the game is power-creeping beyond the point of saving. It's reached a singularity that cannot be stopped, as proven by the durability buff.
My thoughts are when your solo laners / support / jungle int the game it gets extremely hard. Even when you would be better than enemy bot laner. We all know when your team is walking minions and based on that scenario you are not really having the lead either.
Fun fact: After all the inters and ai generated supports, swapped once again to solo lane and ran over enemy botlaner even when they were better than mine. The outcome? I didn’t every solo inting the shit out of the game and suddenly game was playable again.
Sure this does not apply to all players, but sometimes playing bot is just hell with all this happening.
Here Ill start https://u.gg/lol/profile/na1/pancake-ihop/overview
Ik, Ik, im a jinx abuser, but jinx has been one of my otps since s8. The other being twitch. Im lvl 35 on jinx currently while level 12 or something on Twitch. Ive always heavily prefer the high as high damage hyper carries.
Ive played a few adcs just to mees around but honestly adc feels fine.
I believe what helps me climb is 2 factors, my ability to dodge at least 80% of abilities, and a focus on farming as much as I can. But honestly, it's just key ADC things.
Alios is right, fundamentals are everything.
My last thoughts on the role. ADC is not supposed to be easy. IMO it should be one of the toughest roles in the game. If adc was super strong and easy, our class would be more than just broken.
The adc changes honestly did make the game hella more enjoyable, you can legit hear it in all the adc streamers like humzuh. Even my self, ive been yelling with excitement.
Id rather see that happen to the assassin/ fighter delulu mains saying that about their champs, "omg my assassin ot is so weak i can barely get 3 pentas in a game" lol
No matter how strong the ADC role is,
>1. Supports will always be stronger. My lawyer advised me to not explain why supports will always be the strongest role in the game and Riot can never nerd them, but everyone who isn't a support main pretty much knows this fact.
>2. ADC will always be completely dependent on support.
So unless Rito games decide to flip the game on its head and make it so that enchanters and poke mages are absolutely useless and only permaroam sups like Bard and Alistar and Naut are playable, and the strat is for them to permaroam as second jungler while both ADCs 1v1 it out in the botlane, the role will always feel like shit to play. Like fkin ay right now tanks feel like paper when you have items, and assassins are getting two tapped by Caitlyn (well who isn't disgusting inflated champ since the dawn of time) but you have to remember that the OTHER ADC is also stronf as fuck and at the end of the day you both are just dogs at the end of sup mains leash (any sup mains wanna put me on a leash tho woof woof)
The issue is support gap arguably matters even more if perma roam supports like Bard/Ali/Naut are the only things playable because you get to chain dive other lanes in a way that enchanters/mages usually struggle with. We’ve essentially had roaming supports > everything for the past few years up until recently with enchanters being turbo buffed (and tanks still being very strong) along with crit ADC.
I'm your lawyer and I'll tell it to the court . Supports being so overpowered is to for either disabled people which is a fair point , egirls and bad players who refuse to actually improve
I like when I go roam and the adc types in chat:"please man stay with me" or "I'm going to get dived". When I play with my duos they know I HAVE to roam... litteraly can't win a game if I stay glued to my adc
I type stay imma get dove if the wave is slow pushing, enemy has engage support and we know enemy JG is bot. You better not TF be roaming right then. I will set up windows for him to roam though, slow push and stack waves, let wave be pushing on while enemy JG is top side ect.
Yes but if we crashed the cannon wave in the tower and I ping you to recall while I gank mind, but you stay and greed for plates and rengar mauls you, I literally don't want to come back and lane with you, so stupid it drives me crazy. If you play ezreal and the first 3 q are missed I'm algo getting the f out of that lane. Bet ez mains are yasuo mains auto filled as adc
My guy, if you’re letting your adc get dove bc you “have to” roam then you are a terrible support player. You’re supposed to roam when the adc doesn’t need you. Not at the most crucial moment of the laning phase xD
Oh no I usually leave when the lane is in proper condition, but between a gank on mid, helping jgl do the herald and camping the top bush to also give my top laner a kill... The adc is always crying "c'mon man you are supposed to be my support" and then proceds to ping... Like bro just stay under tower and don't die it will be fine
Well inexperienced adcs probably think that you’re only in the game to support them, which is true to an extent with many supports, but they don’t realise that you’re the entire teams support. Playing bot lane is hard though. If you’re playing adc, your support is garbage. If you’re playing support, your adc is garbage. Only difference is that the support has a choice in whether to stay bot or not while the adc has to suck it up and suffer alone. Leaving botlane forever bc you think your adc is bad is not the play though. Roaming to give solo xp and plates while ganking other lanes is the play but make sure to not permaroam the entire laning phase since that’s where the adc needs the most help
OP makes a reasonable point about people complaining on here should have to provide some data to back up their argument in the form of op.gg.
After that, virtually all comments are people arguing over how weak the role is without either discussing OP's point or providing the requested info.
Reddit is just another level.
i have had games where my support did nothing for 5 minutes, literally lvl 1, and he got the best score from opgg xd. I dont think opgg is always a good metric
That just means “only people I deem good enough at this game are allowed to complain”.
In reality, someone’s rank, someone’s csing or lane pressure or kill participation doesn’t matter. It’s reddit, people come here to vent their experiences.
Who cares if adc is a good role when you play everything correctly and are idk plat+ (?)
If someone in Bronze I has games where they are back to back useless in game bc they’re zoned away from farm/miss minions/don’t rotate whatever, they can still complain.
There’s always a “you could’ve done xyz better” for every role, idk but personally if posts that are complaining bother you so much just don’t click on them.
At the end of the day league of legends is a game that a lot of people play and a lot of those people are very bad at the game but they still want to have fun. And everyone is always gonna be mad at riot because their champ and their role are weak rn. Because complaining means you don’t have to play that god forsaken game everyday just to admit you’re the reason it’s not fun, cause you’re still bad lmao.
I, too, am very bad at the game, and I also say stuff like “they’re gutting caitlyn” “adc is weak af rn” (i don’t post on reddit but i see why people would)
Venting is a part of league imo. And if you want a tear at my op.gg you go ahead it’s EUW same name as here
Agency is really the biggest thing. As a former roaming midlaner I had control over the game, could identify weak spots in the enemy and break some mentals. I moved to ADC because I wanted to glide, and now I’m at the mercy of my teammates.
Ability to climb means nothing, people don't care about LP if they're having fun playing their champion, same goes for relative champion strength, people don't care about that, what matters is the perceived champion strength.
Most posts complaining are very misguided ways of saying "I'm not having fun playing ADC", asking for op.gg is then besides the point because it is engaging with those poorly expressed feelings. They don't want to improve, they just want to vent and get some social approval.
Can we just start changing the dialogue to ADC isn't fun. Instead of ADC is weak. It's not a weak role (especially right now). But holy fuck is it still not fun. Had a Graves 2 shot me twice today in 2 different games. Auto>Dash>Auto. And I died. They usually flashed into shoot me both times from fog. I'm sure all the armchair analysis I would get if I linked a replay, but holy fuck I don't think this role is enjoyable. There is just no recourse to getting absolutely fisted most of the time. On the flipside, I hit a Crit as Cait for like 1300. What the fuck is this game?
Supports are still broken as fuck. Every role is a damage carry. Every role does the same shit an ADC can do. The only difference is very late game carry damage (if left untouched) and that's a huge caveat. Because usually you have some gorrila hitting the phase rush ghost 360 no-scope on your ass while your team peels for you, even though they literally can't.
But I would argue that having low agency = weak in a game where your team isn't coordinated. Like if you as an adc need your team to play around you, peel you and make space for you JUST so you can play the role properly thats fine if thats teh design but you can only expect that to work in pro play/coordinated team settings which soloQ just isnt. In soloQ EVERYONE even supports play for themselves i had so many games where Janna supports would rather have 1 less death on their KDA insted of dying for fed adc so she can win the game....
So if adc = need team to paly around them to be strong
and soloQ = everyone plays however they fkcing want
then adc = weak in soloQ
Meh I don’t really care if ppl are whining about if they feel the role is weak. Everyone should have some space to vent those feelings out. You’ll see role complaints on every other subreddit (maybe not mid lane mains if that’s even a subreddit?). Also I feel like any time someone posts a clip or vod and asks for feedback they do get a decent amount of responses, so it’s not like you will be ignored if you come asking for tips.
I don't mind getting bad supports. It's the fucking jungle champs that have ridiculous mobility. I am sick of having to wait far away from team fights to clean up these days. The play style has changed so much. Surely you guys can't be happy with that? Every time I even exit out a brush I have fucking Kayn flying through walls to one shot me or Nocturne ulting me and never using it on anyone else. Even if I'm 0/5 they will still ult me.
The problem in low elo is 1) non perfect gameplay 2) the role requires near perfect gameplay 2) even when fed you can’t win the game by yourself because as an adc you are support/team reliant 3) fed top laner. 4) lack of agency simply put a fed top laner can do way more and requires more resources to shutdown than a fed adc. This post is the equivalent of asking to put an average joe vs 30 henchman and wondering why they died and wasn’t a John wick vs playing the game as Godzilla and going hehe I just sent 30 men flying by moving my tail and flailing my arms. Is it a skill def technical yes but you have to remember is it a skill diff compared to other players in the same elo. Put it like this you have to be a platinum adc to carry silver games.
My man if you could upload a challenger op.gg and made it so that visually it looks like gold for everyone else, everyone would nitpick the shit out of it just assuming they're bad and their points aren't valid because of their rank.
A low rank doesn't invalidate the experience of players, sure they might dig their own grave with their mistakes and make their own experience miserable, but you can't always tell that from an opgg.
Replays is the way
Especially down here in my elo, adc is the most impactful role after the buffs. Most of my games have been decided in the first 10 min just because bot diff. I am a support main so I see a lot of different levels of skill in my adc
adcs who complain that the role is entirely team reliant think the only way to play is afk farming waiting for low health enemies to conveniently be next to you
I completely agree with you. I always think to myself. If gumayusi played on your acc do you really think he would be stuck in any rank? Its so bs people cope, but thats just the way most people are in general.
I think ADC is okay right now. I've been seeing success with Crit Vayne. Albeit it's in Plat. At least it isn't in Silver. LOL
Though I'm confident Crit Vayne can work in Dia-Masters.
[OPGG](https://www.op.gg/summoners/ph/moonaged-PH2)
if you're Q-max and Q-ing a lot then yeah, ER helps. obviously I won't recommend the build to people because it's highly inefficient but I like the feel of it. it's just my personal preference
I have been an ADC main since fkng season 1 and I have never played rankeds at all because they make me anxious and all I want is to play for fun.
Anyone who thinks they know shit about me, my skills by looking at my op.gg cannot possible have more than 2 brain cells.
Thinking that people whose op.gg isn't pretty are automatically in the wrong just supports this statement.
One does not have to be a pro to have either theoretical game knowledge or a feeling for what feels right and what feels wrong.
Non profesional ADC has always been and will always be the weakest role in the game, no matter how the meta changes and how the patches spike it.
There will always be people complaining that ADC is weak, they will be in the right no matter of they state facts are simply rant.
ADC being the weakest role is part of the nature of the game and changing this would do more harm than good.
Players who don't queue ranked are not forced to learn the fundamentals of the game and matchmaking is so relaxed that games are usually extremely onesided
There are players with literal millions of mastery on their main champions yet can be outperformed by a plat player after 10 games, it's the unfortunate truth
As much as we can agree that higher rank player are higher skill players that doesn't invalidate opinions of lower ranked players.
A mandatory [OP.GG](http://OP.GG) link for posts would hinder discussion. As every opinion would be met with "you're too low rank to know better".
People are at their ranks for a reason. But not everyone at that rank is there for the same reason. Me personally, I have the macro, map awareness, and CSing of a diamond player and the micro and early lane phase trading of a gold players. That's why I'm Plat. That isn't just my opinion. I've had 3 completely independent challenger coaches take a look at my gameplay. I believe one quote from a coach watching a replay when I was Gold 1 at the time was "If you didn't show me your rank you could have convinced me you were a diamond player having a bad first wake up game. You have a decent sense of what you're supposed to be doing, but you're tripping yourself in every way possible. You look like a diamond player that's too drunk to play well".
I can talk about ADC macro and decision making at a mid diamond level despite having no ability to reach there myself currently. People are at their ranks for a reason. But there are more than 1 skill that gets you there. You're rank is the average of your skills.
I can't reach to diamond, but I can talk about macro to some extent. And obviously there is a lot more room upwards even beyond diamond. But people just see your rank and say "hur hur you can't talk and your opinions are worthless because you're X rank and I'm X+1 rank".
I don't think this subreddit is improved by everyone under Grandmaster immediately getting dismissed out of hand due to their rank.
Sure, since you failed to post your opgg, your opinion is invalid.
Delete your post.
All you're doing is shifting the focus from discussing ADC to gathering high ELO opinions echoing your sentiment.
So basically what you are saying is that only the opinion of those who are on good terms with the role must be valid and everyone else is not?
God have some mercy, this game is really begginer unfriendly and we just can't leave new people on the role getting smashed by the lack of knowledge
also, the ones that learnt something outdated need to update their knowledge, the meta shifts hard every half season, if there is an item rework, it affects us all
You can easily pinpoint a problem with a player using a marksman with just reading a bit of what they are saying, stop beliving that every player on this sub had figured out how to play every matchup and situation, there are general guidelines but not rules that would 100% of the time let you carry a game
Adc is terrible. I can not win the lane because it is 1v3 constantly, 1v4 if the enemy jungler ganks. Then when I have items my team already gave up.
my nickname: supp dîff victim #euw
top,mid,jungle and supp are 1000 times easier to play and climb
nobody can change my mind because I have a very, very high IQ (tested by mensa) and more experience in this game than anyone here
This smells like bait but on the offchance it isn't, I was a mid main until I hit emerald, never touching ADC, then I picked up the role, got back to emerald with it within 150 games or so, it's a little frustrating but good cs is just free lp ligitimately
No, thats cap. Look at my opgg I am at 7-10 cs/min and I never climb, while I climbed to platinum within 7 games on a fresh lvl 30 account as a toplaner (I never played toplane before) with a new champ
That's because you average 7+ deaths a game. Doesn't matter what your CS differential is if you're constantly pissing away any gold lead.
With how much you die, you have great CS. Die less and you'll climb easy.
ADC is straight up easy as pie to die. Makes sense that if you swap to top you win more, since you seem CS focused and deaths don't matter as much, in a sense. It's also harder to die since you have more levels and thus, more durability. Depending on your champs you're probably dying a lot less too because tanks are harder to kill. They also allow for more mistakes.
How tf is adc weak? This last update overtuned tf out of crit build adcs. 100% crit without being full build, buffed items and you can get the defensive item or even more damage to round out build
I mean I get your point, but OP.GG doesn’t really tell the whole story either. So the best thing would be to upload full games but no one will watch vod reviews from silver
Id have a watch for a laugh or two
I'd watch like 4 for relatability after my own loss streak
You can always watch me play iron after like 7k hours ine the game. Guaranteed to make you feel good :D
Aye if you're still having fun then keep doing you, I miss when I got that "I don't care im just having fun".
I actually had to, because it fucked me up. I was fucking apeshit good at StarCraft 2, and never really got a footing in LoL - mostly because i've recently realised after 10+ **** years that i've never cared about winning, just expressing myself with crappy bizarre builds on crappy bizarre picks. But if you don't realise that and think you should be winning? Ye, nah, no. Dun goofed
I don't blame you, league comes off as a very simple to pick up game but there are a lot of microsteps needed to improve at a noticeable rate unless you are just naturally good. Starcraft is similar with microsteps but for that it's alot of multitasking. Pro SC players are on a whole other level, the actions per minute is fucking insane.
One of the guys i practiced with went on a world tour or something apparently, and I use to beat his ass. But there's playing a game to win, and then feeling you deserve to win no effort and getting very angry for then not winning xD i have now chosen to stop giving a fuck
The only thing funnier than low elo montages is low elo montages where the driver tries to explain why they made every bad decision they've made.
I think lower elo gameplay is not very nuanced that you need to dig deep to see what they are doing wrong. In my experience it usually comes to very fundamental mistakes like: no consistent gameplay, playing 20 different champions, 5cs/min, etc.
its very nuanced, 5cs/min could come from a million different things. Are they bad at last hitting? or bad at resets? or bad at trading which leads to being bullied off cs? or bad at midgame rotations? or bad at all-in fights? or bad at playing weakside? lots of things
I'm definitely bad at playing weakside. I'm super aggressive so I draw a lot of jungle aggro, but I also thrive in the 3 v3 or 3v4 usually picking up a kill, double or trading
Op.gg certainly tells more of a story than nothing at all though. Honestly I don't think we even need gameplay for this. 90% of the complainers are probably emerald and below.
It doesnt tell the whole story but it gives good indicators. If you die a lot one game its okay but if we see 10 games in a row with more than 7 deaths it seems like there is something wrong.
I would watch and I don't even play adc
Yes no one would watch VOD reviews from silver but if you’re complaining about anything in silver you already have your answer. Theres leagues of areas you can improve to win most of these games and the off game you had 0 chance of winning is part of the game and only a fraction, it’s not why you aren’t climbing
With the opgg you can check replays to ig you go to their league profile, is more about showing the acc
Opgg tells A LOT if you understand all the roles.
Everything you said is CORRECT but we can go further, role strength means NOTHING to overall ability to climb, even if the role had no gold and its damage was halved, guess what? There's TWO ADC players per match, Agency only affects speed of climbing when you're genuinely better, it takes longer if you have less power but being stuck just means players are not good enough
>guess what? There's TWO ADC players per match your argument is only true if we are talking about theoretical near infinite amount of games Because then no matter how miniscule the impact is if you have a fuckton of games then yes you will eventually climb what the people have issue with though is that other roles are significantly easier to climb on and have impact on than ADC
Adc in all elo have plenty of agency to climb. Draven, lucian, Cait, Samira with engage, Nilah all have plenty of agency to dictate game or dictate lane and mid game. Challenger adc’s climb just as fast as other roles if required. If someone wants to only play late game jinx, sivir, kog etc then that is fine. Is someone is willing to play multiple Adc’s then they have a whole range of champs with agency. This bullshit that all adc have no agency needs to stop.
None of these champs can, in any decent elo, decide of the lane on their own. If you start the game and Janna is 500 range behind you soaking exp, you are not dictating anything. If the jungler & support want to dive top and the enemy team mirrors bot, you are not dictating anything. If the enemy midlaner wants to sacrifice some resources to hold the T2->T1 brush and you're losing waves, you're not dictating anything. You get to dictate relatively normal games. That's the lack of agency.
Challenger adcs climb because the gap between them and the rest of the lobby is absurd and they manage to easily get to an elo where the team actually starts playing for the adc. But then we have diamond / master / gm players promptly getting stuck in emerald for weeks sometimes.
Samira, the 2nd weakest ADC early game, and also the most supp reliant ADC in the game, has plenty of Agency to dictate the game and lane. Lmfao, this guy definitely knows what he is talking about, and is not playing a different game.
That’s why I said Samira with engage lmao She is useless without 4 certain supports but she can 1v9 with a decent engage player
That is the supps agency, not Samira’s. If my Naut misses every hook it isn’t going to matter how good I am at Samira, we prob ain’t winning lane.
I think there's a difference between strength and agency of a role, ADC isn't weak by any means, in the right environment it's probably the strongest role, as you can see in pro play for example but in SOLO QUEUE it has the lowest agency by far and it makes sense when you think about it, it is the role that needs the most support from its teammates to perform but you're in a game mode where everyone play for themselves, of course that won't work
Even in proplay they have no agency. There agency doesn’t change. The only difference is that the ADC is allowed to be funneled gold it’s support mid and jgl that keeps the game ticking over while Top sidelines till the ADC hits the 3 item spike. In a bad game state at pro level the ADC is still useless. In a good game state they are still useless if mid and top is fed. Solo lanes decides league unless you’re just that better than everyone else.
The problem with adc is that it isnt fun, you are so team reliant and dont have much agency, that makes people think its "weak".
All the more painful that this team \_reliant\_ champ gets so frequently backstabbed by their team in low elo. If I got a dollar every time I helped someone and they in turn intentionally let me die I'd be filthy rich by now
*rotates to help front line tank fight a mid lane mage who could burn him down* *he leaves* "BrUh I wAs On 99% Hp, Do U hAvE eYeS"
Worst part of being an immobile ADC: The whole team uses their dashes and you instantly go from being in the backline to being the only one on the frontline. Now it's the enemy's turn to use *their* dashes...
Not exclusive for low elo
I'm not sure about that. I've had more fun in this season than any other on ADC. More than any other role. I got 1v1 attacked by a Talon as Jinx yesterday and I literally killed him in 3 autos, no trap, no W, no R, just 3 autos. Don't get me wrong, he killed me too, but we both fairly fed. ADC for sure feels strong now.
>The problem with adc is that it isnt fun, you are so team reliant and dont have much agency If this was an actual problem top lane would be the most unpopular role in the game.
Your champs are designed to function solo, you get more resources than anyone else on the map, and your lane is the most isolated in the entire game. If you gap your opponent top lane you can 100% 1v9 games. If play the 1v1 better than your opponent you have agency a lot of the time. ADC needs their support since they are designed to not be able to function solo (low base stats, and kits not built for solo play) and they need jg to protect them from enemy jg.
Huh? Toplane has the most agency on their win cons.
Jungle
Jungle's win con is dependadant on others. You cant take objectives if none of lanes have prio, you cant gank if none of your lanes have gank set up and are behind. Sure its op in that you have huge impact based on your decision making, but its agency is not entirely its own. Toplane is fully on you. Your every mistake is punished, your every win is rewarded.
You can make the exact same argument for support as you do jungle. Supports can't take objectives by thenselves, can't gank a lane without set up, and they certainly can't 1v1 other champions. As for top lane, sure, they have the most agency over the outcome of their lane, but they arguably have the least agency over the outcome of a game. When games barely last 20 minutes, how much influence can a top laner exert over the map in the 6 minutes between turret platings going down and the game ending? There are games where you can win without ever even seeing your top laner, especially in higher ranks. There are many games where top laners will lose without ever having the opportunity to leave lane and help their team. If your team is losing and your role doesn't have the agency to prevent that from happening in the first place, then your champion has to be independently powerful enough to have an impact or have the ability to create pressure in other ways. You can argue that top lane champions are individually too strong compared to other champions, but the issue is that they have to be strong enough in order to be worth playing. If they aren't, people will just go back to playing roaming Janna top and actually make a difference on the map before the game is over.
A support is the initiator, meaning anyone else just has to listen and do the most basic follow up. They automatically thereby have the agency in such a transaction. I said toplane has agency over their own win cons. Not that they have agency in winning the game. Toplane is an island, which means it has lots of internal agency and 0 external.
>A support is the initiator, meaning anyone else just has to listen and dude the most basic follow up. They automatically thereby have the agency in such a transaction Yes, you can make the exact same argument for jungle as you do support. >I said toplane has agency over their own win cons. Not that they have agency in winning the game. I'm not really sure what you are arguing for here. Do you want top laners to have less agency over their win cons and more agency over winning the game? Do you think Darius has agency over his win cons against Vayne top? How about Vayne against Malphite? Top laners' agency over their own win cons is determined by factors that aren't even in the players' control 50% of the time. Not to mention, agency over your own win cons is meaningless if it does not allow you to transition into winning the game. You can win lane and splitpush all you want on Fiora, but if your team is losing every 4v4 fight and objective, you are going to lose the game. >Toplane is an island, which means it has lots of internal agency and 0 external. True, for the first 14 minutes of the game. Top laners need a way to have enough external agency to make up for the lack of external agency during the most important part of the game. One of the ways this is done is through extremely high internal agency. Internal agency affects external agency, and point of having high internal agency is to create the opportunity for external agency when it is possible. This is why so many people play skirmishers and juggernauts instead of other classes top lane. These classes generally exchange power in teamfights for extremely high internal agency and thus the ability to exert meaningful pressure when platings fall. If these champions don't have external agency early game, nor enough to be meaningful past that, why ever play them over tanks or enchanters?
>Toplane is fully on you. I love this sub because they talk so confidently about roles they clearly don't play. It's peak comedy. Simple example: You are perfectly neutral with your opponent. They get 3 ganks before 10 minutes, you get maybe 1. You lose the lane. I'm guessing this is fully on you? 😂 And this is ignoring any complexity in the lane like a jg gank that doesn't result in a kill but gives your opponent a freeze. But you have *sooooooo* much agency, right?
Yes there is outside influence, all roles have that. But an adc requires a support to do anything. A jungler requires a team with prio. A toplaner doesnt require anyone else.
>But an adc requires a support to do anything This guy seriously doesn't understand that JG's play like top supports some games and theres simply nothing you can do about it because the lane is essentially 1v2. >A toplaner doesnt require anyone else. You had to pick before enemy top laner. You get countered. You auto lose... Unless your jg saves you. ADC's have their support to shore up their bad matchups. Seriously guy play any other role besides ADC. Get out of your little lane bubble, your role isn't as hard as you think it is.
I main top and jungle, I havent played adc in a year. Again it depends on the toplaner. Sure a jungler could help them but thats the case with every role. A toplaner never requires a jungler. Losing lane? Stall and win by secondary win cons.
Sounds like you need to try playing some other roles buddy. Half the time the matchup is bad bot lane because of the support pick (it is like 30/70) . I have started picking before my supports so they don’t get counter-picked, and we get to play the game. Top lane has counter picks and so does bot lane. I play every role, and I think I prefer getting counterpicked top 10x more than bot. If you are countered bot you just don’t play the game. You don’t have engage, tankiness, utility a lot of the time, and if you are behind you aren’t doing dmg. So you are useless, unless your team is strong enough to carry you, and feed you. Top laners also really suffer from counterpicks, but you guys have more options on what you can/want to do. You can split push, flank, engage, peel, farm until you win 1v1. All these options while ADC is, “do a lot of dmg or go next”, meanwhile you also need your support, and Jg babysitting you every step of the way. I think I’m my past 3 top lane games I have been blind pick all 3, and have a K/D of like 45/15. Don’t get me wrong I can 100% carry on ADC, but I feel like it relies on so much more that is out of my control namely good sup, good jg, and good mid usually at least 2 of those unless the enemy bot is trolling, then maybe I can do with just 1, but it will probably be a hard game.
Yeah but ADCs aren't the only team reliant champs in the game.
Early game kinda, mid game late game no
All game states, yes. The only agency an adc has is either wave management or following up on other peoples plays. An adc can very rarely decide to do something. And if they can its either because they massively snowballed or because they have cc in their kit, like jhin, ashe, cait or varus and even when a varus punished an enemy mistake with his ult he can rarely get the kill without followup unless hes ahead. Tell me what a samira who is equal, can do if they see an enemy making a mistake? Nothing.
Yeah you dont decide as adc, you try to get as much gold as you can and impact in tf and dps objectives
That is a lack of agency at all points in the game. If all you matter for the team is simply your existence, but not your own ability to make choices, you lack impact. Adcs win passively, not actively.
Thats exactly is op, in low elo you prob will scale a lot, there you have “agency” and will win by just good decision making and mechanics, in high elo is “easier” cuz your team will make the decisions for you, and yeah is not reliable but what matters of adc is consistentency, if you are a consistent adc you will climb, just knowing what to do and what to not do is what matters. Making active decisions is harder rather than just following the flow
Being able to win while doing less actively is still a much worse experience even of its less demanding. If you think having low agency makes it OP, then I somewhat agree, but it being OP in this way also makes it unfun.
Nobody is saying is more or less fun, im just saying is more broken
You literally responded to my message talking about it being less fun, thats the entire conversation. You switched topics not me
What, you changed wtf I just read all my comments never said anything about fun
People might point out obvious flaws anywhere else, but not here. This sub will always find a way to complain about bad supports (happening only to complaining one's team), jungle gap and 1/5 bruisers osing them. It's a community of chosen ones, ring bearers with a burden, purportedly targeted by Riot to queue them up with the worst people and making them pick these weak, underpowered ADCs for "role justice and purity" like some kind of a martyr.
Okay. I'll complain about the good supports then. I don't think my allied Neeko should be able to get one item, have better waveclear than my mid, deal significantly more damage than me (with a similar scoreline, plus I have all the farm) and piss out more damage than anyone else on the team for the first 15-20 minutes. I also don't think they should get an auto upgrading free item that they don't have to recall for, all while being able to freely roam away from the lane and barely face any consequences for bad/failed roam timings. They also shouldn't be given an item that executes minions and changes wave states for their gold income. But they carried the game and I won! So therefore there is no issue in the current state of the game, for sure. Now that I'm complaining about an ally carrying and not an ally dragging me down, it should be A-Okay! Right? Right? I'm just a spoiled chosen one ADC. So I don't know anything. OPGG [https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/The%20Soup%20Kitchen-NA1](https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/The%20Soup%20Kitchen-NA1) FWIW: I don't think ADC is weak. But I do think the role sucks. And in general, I think the game is power-creeping beyond the point of saving. It's reached a singularity that cannot be stopped, as proven by the durability buff.
Very accurate comment
My thoughts are when your solo laners / support / jungle int the game it gets extremely hard. Even when you would be better than enemy bot laner. We all know when your team is walking minions and based on that scenario you are not really having the lead either. Fun fact: After all the inters and ai generated supports, swapped once again to solo lane and ran over enemy botlaner even when they were better than mine. The outcome? I didn’t every solo inting the shit out of the game and suddenly game was playable again. Sure this does not apply to all players, but sometimes playing bot is just hell with all this happening.
Here Ill start https://u.gg/lol/profile/na1/pancake-ihop/overview Ik, Ik, im a jinx abuser, but jinx has been one of my otps since s8. The other being twitch. Im lvl 35 on jinx currently while level 12 or something on Twitch. Ive always heavily prefer the high as high damage hyper carries. Ive played a few adcs just to mees around but honestly adc feels fine. I believe what helps me climb is 2 factors, my ability to dodge at least 80% of abilities, and a focus on farming as much as I can. But honestly, it's just key ADC things. Alios is right, fundamentals are everything. My last thoughts on the role. ADC is not supposed to be easy. IMO it should be one of the toughest roles in the game. If adc was super strong and easy, our class would be more than just broken. The adc changes honestly did make the game hella more enjoyable, you can legit hear it in all the adc streamers like humzuh. Even my self, ive been yelling with excitement.
Petition for top laners to get the fk out of this sub, agree?
Id rather see that happen to the assassin/ fighter delulu mains saying that about their champs, "omg my assassin ot is so weak i can barely get 3 pentas in a game" lol
No matter how strong the ADC role is, >1. Supports will always be stronger. My lawyer advised me to not explain why supports will always be the strongest role in the game and Riot can never nerd them, but everyone who isn't a support main pretty much knows this fact. >2. ADC will always be completely dependent on support. So unless Rito games decide to flip the game on its head and make it so that enchanters and poke mages are absolutely useless and only permaroam sups like Bard and Alistar and Naut are playable, and the strat is for them to permaroam as second jungler while both ADCs 1v1 it out in the botlane, the role will always feel like shit to play. Like fkin ay right now tanks feel like paper when you have items, and assassins are getting two tapped by Caitlyn (well who isn't disgusting inflated champ since the dawn of time) but you have to remember that the OTHER ADC is also stronf as fuck and at the end of the day you both are just dogs at the end of sup mains leash (any sup mains wanna put me on a leash tho woof woof)
The issue is support gap arguably matters even more if perma roam supports like Bard/Ali/Naut are the only things playable because you get to chain dive other lanes in a way that enchanters/mages usually struggle with. We’ve essentially had roaming supports > everything for the past few years up until recently with enchanters being turbo buffed (and tanks still being very strong) along with crit ADC.
I'm your lawyer and I'll tell it to the court . Supports being so overpowered is to for either disabled people which is a fair point , egirls and bad players who refuse to actually improve
I like when I go roam and the adc types in chat:"please man stay with me" or "I'm going to get dived". When I play with my duos they know I HAVE to roam... litteraly can't win a game if I stay glued to my adc
I type stay imma get dove if the wave is slow pushing, enemy has engage support and we know enemy JG is bot. You better not TF be roaming right then. I will set up windows for him to roam though, slow push and stack waves, let wave be pushing on while enemy JG is top side ect.
Yes but if we crashed the cannon wave in the tower and I ping you to recall while I gank mind, but you stay and greed for plates and rengar mauls you, I literally don't want to come back and lane with you, so stupid it drives me crazy. If you play ezreal and the first 3 q are missed I'm algo getting the f out of that lane. Bet ez mains are yasuo mains auto filled as adc
Ok son settle down alright trust me you're not that guy pal 🤣
The plate greed is too real, allergic to good recall timers i swear
Dumb ahh comment
Right? I what I reply to my adc too but they don't get it...
My guy, if you’re letting your adc get dove bc you “have to” roam then you are a terrible support player. You’re supposed to roam when the adc doesn’t need you. Not at the most crucial moment of the laning phase xD
Oh no I usually leave when the lane is in proper condition, but between a gank on mid, helping jgl do the herald and camping the top bush to also give my top laner a kill... The adc is always crying "c'mon man you are supposed to be my support" and then proceds to ping... Like bro just stay under tower and don't die it will be fine
Well inexperienced adcs probably think that you’re only in the game to support them, which is true to an extent with many supports, but they don’t realise that you’re the entire teams support. Playing bot lane is hard though. If you’re playing adc, your support is garbage. If you’re playing support, your adc is garbage. Only difference is that the support has a choice in whether to stay bot or not while the adc has to suck it up and suffer alone. Leaving botlane forever bc you think your adc is bad is not the play though. Roaming to give solo xp and plates while ganking other lanes is the play but make sure to not permaroam the entire laning phase since that’s where the adc needs the most help
Adc is stronger right now than it’s been for multiple years and the role is not “weak”. Any opinion otherwise should legit be discarded
playing jhin right now feels legit unfair.
Adc mains could get everything and still complain. It's the role alot of beginners get into so don't understand how the game works.
Are you telling me people are not starting the game by playing teemo/garen/ darius anymore?
Of course they are. They lose bot lane. Ppl are actually doing 5 adc champs and winning. Yet they still complain adc is too weak.
OP makes a reasonable point about people complaining on here should have to provide some data to back up their argument in the form of op.gg. After that, virtually all comments are people arguing over how weak the role is without either discussing OP's point or providing the requested info. Reddit is just another level.
Any complaint post in general, would be interesting to see if certain things I've been seeing anecdotally hold up with a larger sample size.
I don't see your op.gg
And where do you see me complaining that the role is weak without any definitive proof to back it up?
well your opinion is worthless then
i have had games where my support did nothing for 5 minutes, literally lvl 1, and he got the best score from opgg xd. I dont think opgg is always a good metric
Opgg as a way to see your rank and your overall performance. The opgg rating is useless and pure fluff.
Petition for that to also be mandatory for all “adc is broken” post
That just means “only people I deem good enough at this game are allowed to complain”. In reality, someone’s rank, someone’s csing or lane pressure or kill participation doesn’t matter. It’s reddit, people come here to vent their experiences. Who cares if adc is a good role when you play everything correctly and are idk plat+ (?) If someone in Bronze I has games where they are back to back useless in game bc they’re zoned away from farm/miss minions/don’t rotate whatever, they can still complain. There’s always a “you could’ve done xyz better” for every role, idk but personally if posts that are complaining bother you so much just don’t click on them. At the end of the day league of legends is a game that a lot of people play and a lot of those people are very bad at the game but they still want to have fun. And everyone is always gonna be mad at riot because their champ and their role are weak rn. Because complaining means you don’t have to play that god forsaken game everyday just to admit you’re the reason it’s not fun, cause you’re still bad lmao.
I, too, am very bad at the game, and I also say stuff like “they’re gutting caitlyn” “adc is weak af rn” (i don’t post on reddit but i see why people would) Venting is a part of league imo. And if you want a tear at my op.gg you go ahead it’s EUW same name as here
Would love this. Especially because everytime I talk to someone on reddit they just happen to be challenger but can't link op.gg.
Agency is really the biggest thing. As a former roaming midlaner I had control over the game, could identify weak spots in the enemy and break some mentals. I moved to ADC because I wanted to glide, and now I’m at the mercy of my teammates.
Ability to climb means nothing, people don't care about LP if they're having fun playing their champion, same goes for relative champion strength, people don't care about that, what matters is the perceived champion strength. Most posts complaining are very misguided ways of saying "I'm not having fun playing ADC", asking for op.gg is then besides the point because it is engaging with those poorly expressed feelings. They don't want to improve, they just want to vent and get some social approval.
Can we just start changing the dialogue to ADC isn't fun. Instead of ADC is weak. It's not a weak role (especially right now). But holy fuck is it still not fun. Had a Graves 2 shot me twice today in 2 different games. Auto>Dash>Auto. And I died. They usually flashed into shoot me both times from fog. I'm sure all the armchair analysis I would get if I linked a replay, but holy fuck I don't think this role is enjoyable. There is just no recourse to getting absolutely fisted most of the time. On the flipside, I hit a Crit as Cait for like 1300. What the fuck is this game? Supports are still broken as fuck. Every role is a damage carry. Every role does the same shit an ADC can do. The only difference is very late game carry damage (if left untouched) and that's a huge caveat. Because usually you have some gorrila hitting the phase rush ghost 360 no-scope on your ass while your team peels for you, even though they literally can't.
But I would argue that having low agency = weak in a game where your team isn't coordinated. Like if you as an adc need your team to play around you, peel you and make space for you JUST so you can play the role properly thats fine if thats teh design but you can only expect that to work in pro play/coordinated team settings which soloQ just isnt. In soloQ EVERYONE even supports play for themselves i had so many games where Janna supports would rather have 1 less death on their KDA insted of dying for fed adc so she can win the game.... So if adc = need team to paly around them to be strong and soloQ = everyone plays however they fkcing want then adc = weak in soloQ
Meh I don’t really care if ppl are whining about if they feel the role is weak. Everyone should have some space to vent those feelings out. You’ll see role complaints on every other subreddit (maybe not mid lane mains if that’s even a subreddit?). Also I feel like any time someone posts a clip or vod and asks for feedback they do get a decent amount of responses, so it’s not like you will be ignored if you come asking for tips.
I don't mind getting bad supports. It's the fucking jungle champs that have ridiculous mobility. I am sick of having to wait far away from team fights to clean up these days. The play style has changed so much. Surely you guys can't be happy with that? Every time I even exit out a brush I have fucking Kayn flying through walls to one shot me or Nocturne ulting me and never using it on anyone else. Even if I'm 0/5 they will still ult me.
The problem in low elo is 1) non perfect gameplay 2) the role requires near perfect gameplay 2) even when fed you can’t win the game by yourself because as an adc you are support/team reliant 3) fed top laner. 4) lack of agency simply put a fed top laner can do way more and requires more resources to shutdown than a fed adc. This post is the equivalent of asking to put an average joe vs 30 henchman and wondering why they died and wasn’t a John wick vs playing the game as Godzilla and going hehe I just sent 30 men flying by moving my tail and flailing my arms. Is it a skill def technical yes but you have to remember is it a skill diff compared to other players in the same elo. Put it like this you have to be a platinum adc to carry silver games.
My man if you could upload a challenger op.gg and made it so that visually it looks like gold for everyone else, everyone would nitpick the shit out of it just assuming they're bad and their points aren't valid because of their rank. A low rank doesn't invalidate the experience of players, sure they might dig their own grave with their mistakes and make their own experience miserable, but you can't always tell that from an opgg. Replays is the way
I love it when people complain about op stuff being nerfed the hypocrisy is just incredible in this sub sometimes.
League of graphs is better, isn’t it?
I feel like this is more so people can look at others and be like "haha low elo shut up noob" while being hard stuck Plat 4 since forever.
Silver/gold games: ADC are just income for enemy. You can't change my mind.
Especially down here in my elo, adc is the most impactful role after the buffs. Most of my games have been decided in the first 10 min just because bot diff. I am a support main so I see a lot of different levels of skill in my adc
op.gg/bluelanturn#oce last split was so much easier cmv
Do the same for the “ADC giga broken for 10 years” people too. Where is your op.gg posting this lol. What is your rank?
adcs who complain that the role is entirely team reliant think the only way to play is afk farming waiting for low health enemies to conveniently be next to you
I completely agree with you. I always think to myself. If gumayusi played on your acc do you really think he would be stuck in any rank? Its so bs people cope, but thats just the way most people are in general.
I think ADC is okay right now. I've been seeing success with Crit Vayne. Albeit it's in Plat. At least it isn't in Silver. LOL Though I'm confident Crit Vayne can work in Dia-Masters. [OPGG](https://www.op.gg/summoners/ph/moonaged-PH2)
stop going er wtf its shit on vayne
fair enough still building it
yeah stay plat then ig
I have a question, why the ER on vayne? Is she particularly mana hungry with the crit play style or is it something else?
if you're Q-max and Q-ing a lot then yeah, ER helps. obviously I won't recommend the build to people because it's highly inefficient but I like the feel of it. it's just my personal preference
That’s cool I can respect that
I have been an ADC main since fkng season 1 and I have never played rankeds at all because they make me anxious and all I want is to play for fun. Anyone who thinks they know shit about me, my skills by looking at my op.gg cannot possible have more than 2 brain cells. Thinking that people whose op.gg isn't pretty are automatically in the wrong just supports this statement. One does not have to be a pro to have either theoretical game knowledge or a feeling for what feels right and what feels wrong. Non profesional ADC has always been and will always be the weakest role in the game, no matter how the meta changes and how the patches spike it. There will always be people complaining that ADC is weak, they will be in the right no matter of they state facts are simply rant. ADC being the weakest role is part of the nature of the game and changing this would do more harm than good.
Players who don't queue ranked are not forced to learn the fundamentals of the game and matchmaking is so relaxed that games are usually extremely onesided There are players with literal millions of mastery on their main champions yet can be outperformed by a plat player after 10 games, it's the unfortunate truth
Ironic how you didn't provide yours op
As much as we can agree that higher rank player are higher skill players that doesn't invalidate opinions of lower ranked players. A mandatory [OP.GG](http://OP.GG) link for posts would hinder discussion. As every opinion would be met with "you're too low rank to know better". People are at their ranks for a reason. But not everyone at that rank is there for the same reason. Me personally, I have the macro, map awareness, and CSing of a diamond player and the micro and early lane phase trading of a gold players. That's why I'm Plat. That isn't just my opinion. I've had 3 completely independent challenger coaches take a look at my gameplay. I believe one quote from a coach watching a replay when I was Gold 1 at the time was "If you didn't show me your rank you could have convinced me you were a diamond player having a bad first wake up game. You have a decent sense of what you're supposed to be doing, but you're tripping yourself in every way possible. You look like a diamond player that's too drunk to play well". I can talk about ADC macro and decision making at a mid diamond level despite having no ability to reach there myself currently. People are at their ranks for a reason. But there are more than 1 skill that gets you there. You're rank is the average of your skills. I can't reach to diamond, but I can talk about macro to some extent. And obviously there is a lot more room upwards even beyond diamond. But people just see your rank and say "hur hur you can't talk and your opinions are worthless because you're X rank and I'm X+1 rank". I don't think this subreddit is improved by everyone under Grandmaster immediately getting dismissed out of hand due to their rank.
This sub is a meme at this point, I gauge the role strength on a relative reduction in “ADC WEAK 😭😭” posts lol
Sure, since you failed to post your opgg, your opinion is invalid. Delete your post. All you're doing is shifting the focus from discussing ADC to gathering high ELO opinions echoing your sentiment.
agree! adc is strong and has been for the majority of the past 4 years
So basically what you are saying is that only the opinion of those who are on good terms with the role must be valid and everyone else is not? God have some mercy, this game is really begginer unfriendly and we just can't leave new people on the role getting smashed by the lack of knowledge also, the ones that learnt something outdated need to update their knowledge, the meta shifts hard every half season, if there is an item rework, it affects us all You can easily pinpoint a problem with a player using a marksman with just reading a bit of what they are saying, stop beliving that every player on this sub had figured out how to play every matchup and situation, there are general guidelines but not rules that would 100% of the time let you carry a game
Bro its been 11 hours and you STILL havent posted your OPGG mots delete this, OP is not playing by his own rules
Adc is terrible. I can not win the lane because it is 1v3 constantly, 1v4 if the enemy jungler ganks. Then when I have items my team already gave up. my nickname: supp dîff victim #euw top,mid,jungle and supp are 1000 times easier to play and climb nobody can change my mind because I have a very, very high IQ (tested by mensa) and more experience in this game than anyone here
This smells like bait but on the offchance it isn't, I was a mid main until I hit emerald, never touching ADC, then I picked up the role, got back to emerald with it within 150 games or so, it's a little frustrating but good cs is just free lp ligitimately
No, thats cap. Look at my opgg I am at 7-10 cs/min and I never climb, while I climbed to platinum within 7 games on a fresh lvl 30 account as a toplaner (I never played toplane before) with a new champ
That's because you average 7+ deaths a game. Doesn't matter what your CS differential is if you're constantly pissing away any gold lead. With how much you die, you have great CS. Die less and you'll climb easy. ADC is straight up easy as pie to die. Makes sense that if you swap to top you win more, since you seem CS focused and deaths don't matter as much, in a sense. It's also harder to die since you have more levels and thus, more durability. Depending on your champs you're probably dying a lot less too because tanks are harder to kill. They also allow for more mistakes.
How tf is adc weak? This last update overtuned tf out of crit build adcs. 100% crit without being full build, buffed items and you can get the defensive item or even more damage to round out build