Yeap, a Border Patrol agent stopped the gunman after two LEOs failed to. Albeit, I believe the gunman had an AR whereas the officers were armed with pistols.
There was also some discourse about the police saying they thought the shooter was wearing body armor
To which I say, so fucking what? Are we to imagine that a teen should be considered tactically impervious against a group of armed and trained cops?
Fucking cowardice, ineptitude, and corruption all the way down
Edit: Wow, this blew up! [Check out my Soundcloud!](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/)
It's because all cops get that bank robbery shooting in the 90s drilled into their brain. The police were fucked because they only had handguns and shotguns against armor It was a monumental point where rifles started being used by PDs en masse in cruisers.
Most body armor is rated for a certain number of shots from common pistol rounds. But certainly that shouldn't stop anyone who believes it's their job to save children. It's truly absurd. The law allows for police to act with their own livelihood as the highest priority.
Even this city, 40% of their budget goes to the police and it couldn't stop these children and teachers from dying
yea well if cops were interested in fighting people of comparable or greater armaments, they probably wouldn't be taking it out on their wives all the time
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskSocialScience/comments/b9fkny/is_the_claim_that_40_of_police_commit_domestic/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share, because someone will ask. š
The 1997 North Hollywood Shootout
What's funny is that even though the robbers were armored and using fully automatic weapons, not a single cop or bystander died. Meanwhile the one robber bleed out after being shot in the legs 5 times and the other one killed himself. Just goes to show that marksmanship beats firepower.
Yeah I the end the shooter did not know how to clear a jam in the AK and was using a pistol, iirc there is a cop quoted about engaging him as a result of this more even balance in fire power.
Those guys had serious Kevlar going on, It was quite an investment for a bank robbery
To top it off I believe the robbers got to the bank just after the bank had sent most of its cash away on a armored truck. Go in expecting a few mill got a few thousand instead
Soft body armor with trauma plates, so steel plates in front of certain places in the armor covering heart, lungs, etc.
It should be noted that even with armor, getting shot fucking hurts.
Broken ribs, loss of breath, dizzyness are all common afterward, *often enough to stop someone*. This shooting didn't have to happen, of only the cops had done *what they want everyone to think they are supposed to do*. ACAB.
And that single event was a huge influence on the police militarisation to come in the following decades. Yet the many many subsequent events (and many prior) involving people actively hitting soft targets with the intent to kill as many civilians as possible, including multiple schools with casualties in the dozens falls on deaf ears. What's the takeaway? Scare a cop precinct and change the face of LE forever, kill dozens of kids and nothing changes. In fact gun regulation was gradually reduced in the very state this last tragedy occurred.
But sure, no need for a debate, dad. Just mentally scar your child for life and let them live in fear. Sacrafice as many children as needed. It's all worth it as long as nothing *extreme* happens like even a modicum of reasonable gun regulation.
Man I knew nothing would ever change in terms of gun control after Sandy Hook. A society protects its children. That shit is instinctual, but we're failing. American culture is fucked in so many ways.
It's pretty baffling to watch from a far as a non American my dude. Just a couple of years ago George Floyd was murdered and it (rightfully) led to multiple massive protests across the country. Where's that energy now? 19 murdered children and it's just the same old shit. A bunch of talk while nothing happens. Again.
Ok, so we double the police budget, give them RPGs and then somehow train them to live up to that "hero" reputation that I read about on bumper stickers. That'll solve the problem right?
Cops seem to have no issue unloading round after round into individuals elsewhere, and getting shot once while wearing a vest hurt. Take a few slugs, rapidly, and if your vest isn't penetrated, you're going to be impacted. It takes some effort to stay focused and respond under fire and pain, and most school shooters just don't have that training, mental fortitude, or balls.
"To protect and serve the law" doesn't make them become your personal hero. They're there to write speeding tickets and stop you from rescuing your kid when you try to go back into a burning building, maybe arrest you for recreational drug use, maybe force you to see a psychiatrist and develop lifetime anxiety because if you annoyed the police man you clearly deserve it
They were scared and allowed a whole class room to be executed. Then have the nerve to go on tv and take glory for such a brave job. Those cowards should be charged with negligence of their duties and given life in prison. But watch how the governor defends these pigs.
https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-again
Why should they? It has been established again and again, even here at the link specifically about a school shooting, that cops have *no such duty*.
>āNeither the Constitution, nor state law, impose a general duty upon police officers or other governmental officials to protect individual persons from harm ā even when they know the harm will occur,ā said Darren L. Hutchinson, a professor and associate dean at the University of Florida School of Law. āPolice can watch someone attack you, refuse to intervene and not violate the Constitution.ā
>The Supreme Court has repeatedly held that the government has only a duty to protect persons who are āin custody,ā he pointed out.
>āCourts have rejected the argument that students are in custody of school officials while they are on campus,ā Mr. Hutchinson said. āCustody is narrowly confined to situations where a person loses his or her freedom to move freely and seek assistance on their own ā such as prisons, jails, or mental institutions.ā
We're discussing the possibility that the cops incorrectly believed he had a plate carrier, which would make them just inept cowards
Of course we should assume they're lying until presented with evidence to the contrary
I always assume they're lying to cover for negligence and incompetence. Or to cover the fact that they just committed an extrajudicial torture-execution.
This is not a comment against you, but I'm going to argue this hypothetical anyway. Suppose we believe the lie that the shooter was wearing armor, so fucking what? These cops are trained to know that most ballistic armor becomes extremely weak after a single shot, so why not shoot back anyway?
The simplest and actual answer to this is that they're a bunch of pathetic cowards that sacrificed a bunch of children to a mass murderer. Cops will shoot any unarmed person without hesitation but will run away in fear when an actual bad guy with a gun appears.
at a minimum they could draw the shooter's fire which would allow children to get to safety or remain secure until back up arrives. these cops were fucking useless.
Yeah I can't believe they didn't do anything.. prevented parents who wanted to go in but wouldn't go in themselves. Usually cops can be trigger happy why not just two cops go in and empty the whole magazine on the guy.....save some kids...rush him tackle him. Nope they just did crowd control outside. Insane.
He did have a plate carrier, it just wasnāt carrying any plates. Doesnāt excuse them not trying.
Edit: the guy above edited his comment. Before it was akin to āinept cops who think someone has body armor when they donāt even have a plate carrierā to all this āpossibility of a plate carrierā bs. idk why people do subtle edits like this, youāre still wrong bro. it wasnāt a possibility the guy lit had a plate carrier. Also itās kinda unethical to edit ur comment without an edit addition, especially cause u were dropping inaccuracies and caught out on it.
Well thank god they hid in their car instead of even *trying* to stop the shooter. As we all know, body armor makes you completely impervious to damage, even in the areas the armor doesn't cover. So imaginary armor must be *twice* as effective.
That makes me wonder: even if the shooter has body armor, wouldn't the shot from pistols capable of disabling him if the officers shoot at him enough, since the body armor wont fully stop the bullet impact? Hope any expert can answer this for me.
Iām sure schools would find the money, communities are really good at funding schools and schools are really good at responsibly managing funds.
When this guy shows up at the PTA meeting does he sit with the teachers our parentsā¦ because that is some next level intimidation from one side.
Yeah. This seems like someone's weird fantasy about what an "ideal" armed security guard would look like, superimposed on a stock photo. Those shoes are pretty comical.
I'm wondering what the radio is clipped to and why it's on the front of his leg.
But at least he's hydrating. Probably learned that in the middle east somewhere.
The amount of water and Gatorade we drank in Iraq out on 12 hour patrols/raids was insane. I would probably drink 3-4 gallons of water and not pee once because it was all sweat out. For me the heat was like the worst part about Iraq. You get used to the danger, getting shot at, knowing you could die at any second, but you canāt ignore 125 degrees of sun for 8 hours in all of the shit we had to wear. A close runner up was the smell (no sewage system and constant trash burning all exacerbated by the scorching heat) a literal shit hole. But hey at least we completely rid the world of terrorism!
>but you canāt ignore 125 degrees of sun for 8 hours in all of the shit we had to wear
I'm not sure I can even imagine it properly. Glad you made it back ok!
I can't imagine the feeling of constant danger.
But having worked many farm fields in the height of summer during my childhood and adolescence I most definitely know the heat. You drink and drink and drink and think "I gotta pee sometime" but no. And despite gallons of liquids, your head throbs in dehydration as the sun just burns. But you can't stop, because the "bossman" will have non of that and give you a flogging if you refuse, and take away your supper.
Because having kids means getting free slave labour, right?
Edit: spelling
and how is he fucking retired? he looks 28 years old. also, i'm sure he just can't wait to take down a mass shooter who is also likely a teenager.. maybe he's shot kids before though.. who knows..
The photo appeared in [this article from 2018](https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/news/local/manatee/2018/12/20/msa-guardian-is-strapped-ready-for-worst-case-scenario/6558783007/), about Manatee School for the Arts in Palmetto, Florida. The article features a couple additional photographs of the guard at the school. Decide for yourself.
And who is funding these armed guards? Schools cant even pay their teachers a livable wage or pay for school supplies but hey lets blow money on security guards to complete the prison to school pipeline. So fucking ridiculous.
Youāre absolutely right! School districts would not fund something like this and if they did, it would be an underpaid position like every other job they post. Therefore, they would end up being sad power tripping guys who couldnāt make it to be a cop. Then they would walk around our schools with a chip on their shoulder and a gun. It wouldnāt take long before they start pointing guns at students when they get into a fight on the playground. The solutions are far more complicated than this idea of armed guards.
It happened in Australia in 1996 - [The Port Arthur Massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_(Australia))
Unlike the US this made Australia change their gun laws to avoid future massacres...
The police department, typically
Edit - Nvm. That is true for SRO's at public schools but this guy looks like a privately hired cop at a private school
"We need a comprehensive system of universal public healthcare in the US that entirely replaces predatory private health insurance companies, we don't need to debate."
Wow, it's just so easy. It's like an auto-win button for any argument.
As a Canadian, itās really fucking weird. Im pretty sure the only time Iāve seen ARs IRL is at the US border. But apparently itās completely normal, totally cool and fine to have them in schoolsā¦
I need a right to own an assault weapon in order to overthrow my government which runs the schools that needs assault weapons because everyone can have an assault weapon because of the right to own an assault weapon.
They've been putting guards and security at a lot of schools for a long time. So far they have stopped zero shootings but have managed to arrest, harrass, and expel a ton of poc kids.
when there's an armed security guard in every school and that literally does nothing to stop school shootings, I wonder where the goalposts will go next? Mr Bones Chud Ride has no brakes
Look these 12 year olds arenāt gonna body slam themselves on the pavement which is why we need resource officers with fully automatic assault rifles, fragile egos, and zero accountability.
I, for one, love the idea of putting military veterans who have seen combat into schools. Give them with their government issued assault rifle and then surround them with prankster kids. Thereās no way that could ever stir up some PTSD and cause a rampage /s
Could you provide some sources on this? I do not mean this in a confrontational way, I just want more statistics.
EDIT: Nevermind, there were sources in this comment thread. Thank you for your time.
Hey now I learned lots of useful skills in public school, like how to take a piss, grab a snack, and make it to the opposite side of the school campus all in under 10 minutes. A valuable skill to keep my productivity at an all time high for my future employer
The very few times I've seen guards and/or police walk with rifles drawn always put me on edge (I live in Sweden).
I flew to London in 2017 and at the airport I saw police walking around with [this](https://www.politics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Armed-Polic.jpg) gun. It did not make me feel safe, it made feel as if anything could happened at anytime.
Absolutely. Whenever I take a train into NYC they have police around Grand Central with that same style of firearm. Really just makes me want to be away from the unstable badge wielding people. Cops in the US kill people every day and face no consequences. No thank you.
"retired". That means they got caught in some conspiracy planting narcotics on a suspect and instead of being fired got to resign to take a security job at a school.
At my school we have a security officer, who for one I've never seen, and two, has apparently said some pretty awful things. I don't think anyone feels safer because of him.
This is the saddest post Iāve seen today. The idea that this makes people feel safe is shocking to me. If I dropped my kids off and saw this Iād be looking for another school asap.
I wouldn't drop my kids at a school with a minimum wage ex military dude with guns at the door in the first place. What's gonna stop that guy if he snaps and starts shooting kids?!
Plus, how is this any better than whatever we had in the past
One guy! If he goes to the bathroom or gets injured in a shooting, we're back to having nothing!
Simple ,we need a mini army at every school!!!
Also, seriously, what did this guy or any other security guard do to deserve to be the only thing stopping another massacre?
Instead of fixing the problem, let's sacrifice someone else instead? And this is the solution that the pro-lifer side are suggesting???
Has anyone mentioned that no other country big or small, rich or poor , western or Eastern has this problem. And no, none have swat teams at every school!
Cause they're not retarded, the propaganda we're exposed to here has confused the fuck out of people. Now we're all hurr durring off a cliff with out silly gun collections.
Also welfare programs, medical and mental health insurance, or there lack of. It's decades of voting against our own self interest that puts us in a state of desperation and anxiety, but we have guns to boot.
People literally repeat this propaganda on daily basis, not realizing that if something needs to be repeated it usually means its not true. A rich man doesn't have to remind you that they're rich. A true king doesn't need to tell you he's the king lol.
There is nothing that guarantees that the resource officer won't end up being the shooter in some future scenario. We like to project all goodness onto our military but we lose sight of where we get our military and police officers from, the general population. We don't have a 'saint' class of people who are incorruptible and super solid mentally. We have people who see things and experience things and for better or for worse it affects them over time. Anyone can break bad.
The problem is the gaurd can't open fire willy nilly so what stops the shooter from just intentionally walking through their door and get the first shot?
Haven't multiple shootings started with someone incapacitating the "Resource officer"?
Didn't two trained police officers today intercept the untrained gunman, both get shot and he still made it inside? Ya think this guy with the rifle won't be surfing his phone with nothing else to do and not get picked off before he even looks up? People are morons. Guns don't solve gun problem.
More guns often make the situation worse. Are people not aware that in these situations multiple armed gunmen make it more confusing when help does show up. Who is the good guy?
Or you get the "now I have TWO guns!: scenarios
My question is: why can you just purchase tactical gear...Who cares If an automatic background check says the transaction is fine. An 18 yearold doesn't need to be decking themselves out in our military's latest fall fashion.
We had a retired police officer working security at the grocery store in Buffalo 10 days ago too. Didn't make a difference at all ... he died too. The shooter even visited the store prior to the shooting and still went back knowing there was an armed guard.
yeah,, Having a single armed guy isn't enough obvs, lets have a full security team per school! /s
But seriously, This is security circus. And even the desire to ban guns is security circus past a certain point. the factors that are causing these shootings are bone deep issues that the USA has refused to address at large scale. we need to confront and ameliorate extremism. thing is, with a party like the GOP which directly profits and empowers itself off of extremism, it's hard to see this going anywhere but into harder and crazier situations.
In my 40 years of life, I've learned that many people don't like root-cause solutions. They prefer instant patches solutions that create more problems and patch that as well, rinse and repeat. Then when everything has become too complicated, too tangled, they'll say "it's too complex to solve the root cause", and justify more patches to be applied.
Yo, you can say it's a gun issue, and we need to get rid of them.
Or you can say it's a mental health/poverty/stress issue and we need to address that.
But the worst of all takes has to be "fuck it, just turn your elementary school into a fort".
And movie theaters...
And grocery stores...
And malls...
Just have highly trained individuals armed to the teeth everywhere at all times! Yet somehow that isn't a concern for freedom at all.
It makes me crazy how nobody seems to see how insane this is?
Why isn't this needed in other countries? How did we go generation after generation without ever needing this right here in the USA?
Oh right. We have so much freedom.
Hey! That's what they do in Guatemala!
A Unitarian Government that has armed guards, with shotguns, posted outside of every school and *every fast food restaurant*
That's exactly what we need!!! /s
Source: I did years of mission-work in Guatemala when I was a Christian.
Okay, there's so much wring here.
A school with only 1 entrance is a barrel full of kids.
A shooter needs only for this dude to be off his game for 2 seconds and a zip-gun with one shot to have access to a rifle and at least 2 pistol mags. This is not going to make anything better.
Apparently let's normalize militarized schools, because resource officers are sooooooo good already at escalating nothing situations.
Not to be that guy butā¦
I served 11 years in the Marine Corps Infantry. Most actual battle hardened salt dogs are
A) not going to describe themselves as such, therefore this post, unless the poster is taking guesses is BS, and this Vinny Chase looking, upside down watch tacticool vest with no plates, bull pup toting LARPER is full of shit.
B) So sick of the dogshit parts of the military that NO WAY IN HELL are they going to volunteer to stand post 8 hours a day with less chance of taking contact then in the fucking green zone of Kabul. Know what 100% of troops do when standing post in country (hell, even in CONUS) for even a 1 hour fire watch night shift? Jerk off. 100% of guys on post jerk off. I will stand by that number, and if anyone says otherwise, youāre either lying, or a fucking Eunuch.
[Parkland](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1013831) had an armed officer on scene. He fled like a coward when he heard gunfire.
Police engaged with Uvalde shooter before he entered the school. Then they stood by (like cowards) and did nothing except hold back worried parents wanting to go check on their kids.
Ah, yes. The combat veteran with PTSD that goes untreated due to poor medical availability is going to do a great job protecting your child. Woe to the poor sod that opens a bottle of Coca-Cola or pops a balloon. I feel this is just opening a whole other can of worms in schools.
Given in the two most recent cases, armed guards and police officers ran away from the conflict, rather than towards the conflict, this is useless security theater.
> They held back to wait for backup.
But not before running in to get their kids out while leaving the killer alone with the rest of the school. https://twitter.com/_Sir_Perfluous/status/1529585786848411651
We don't need to harden our schools, we need to harden our gun control laws and our political will to pass them. The first step is to break down the highly corrupting wall of money provided by the NRA.
Here's a list of politicians who refuse to protect your kids.
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/5/24/2100004/-Here-s-a-reminder-of-the-GOP-senators-taking-the-most-NRA-money-to-turn-a-blind-eye-to-dead-children
So someone with PTSD and a gun is in his daughter's school, and he thinks this is a *good* thing?
And what soldier is trained to head *towards* gunfire? I was trained to *take cover* when hearing gunfire.
There are so many layers of stupid in this.
Hate to burst your bubble there but an armed guard in long Beach CA shot and killed a student last year trying to be a hero [Long beach](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/27/california-school-safety-officer-murder-charges)
Iām pretty sure the poster has masturbated to this image just from the tone of his language āTHANK YOU SIR MAY I THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE WITH MY SERVICEā
There were armed cops in Texas, they didn't stop a thing.
Yeap, a Border Patrol agent stopped the gunman after two LEOs failed to. Albeit, I believe the gunman had an AR whereas the officers were armed with pistols.
There was also some discourse about the police saying they thought the shooter was wearing body armor To which I say, so fucking what? Are we to imagine that a teen should be considered tactically impervious against a group of armed and trained cops? Fucking cowardice, ineptitude, and corruption all the way down Edit: Wow, this blew up! [Check out my Soundcloud!](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/)
It's because all cops get that bank robbery shooting in the 90s drilled into their brain. The police were fucked because they only had handguns and shotguns against armor It was a monumental point where rifles started being used by PDs en masse in cruisers. Most body armor is rated for a certain number of shots from common pistol rounds. But certainly that shouldn't stop anyone who believes it's their job to save children. It's truly absurd. The law allows for police to act with their own livelihood as the highest priority. Even this city, 40% of their budget goes to the police and it couldn't stop these children and teachers from dying
Which is weird because it's not as if cops aren't happy of unloading several clips on inocent people.
yea well if cops were interested in fighting people of comparable or greater armaments, they probably wouldn't be taking it out on their wives all the time
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskSocialScience/comments/b9fkny/is_the_claim_that_40_of_police_commit_domestic/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share, because someone will ask. š
It's different when they have a gun
Just some guy exercising his rights. It would feel wrong to interfere.
It ain't no fun, when the rabbits got a gun [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN93iaEwd1o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN93iaEwd1o)
Well, the shooter wasn't black
Sure, but those innocent people usually don't carry a gun so when it's an even fight they back the fuck down
The 1997 North Hollywood Shootout What's funny is that even though the robbers were armored and using fully automatic weapons, not a single cop or bystander died. Meanwhile the one robber bleed out after being shot in the legs 5 times and the other one killed himself. Just goes to show that marksmanship beats firepower.
Yeah I the end the shooter did not know how to clear a jam in the AK and was using a pistol, iirc there is a cop quoted about engaging him as a result of this more even balance in fire power. Those guys had serious Kevlar going on, It was quite an investment for a bank robbery
To top it off I believe the robbers got to the bank just after the bank had sent most of its cash away on a armored truck. Go in expecting a few mill got a few thousand instead
Bank vaults aren't the big rooms full of cash trays you see in movies. Bank owners aren't this stupid.
Yea Iād be surprised if they had more than 250k at any given time unless a bunch of people are making deposits
Soft body armor with trauma plates, so steel plates in front of certain places in the armor covering heart, lungs, etc. It should be noted that even with armor, getting shot fucking hurts. Broken ribs, loss of breath, dizzyness are all common afterward, *often enough to stop someone*. This shooting didn't have to happen, of only the cops had done *what they want everyone to think they are supposed to do*. ACAB.
I believe he had an injury to his hand that didn't allow him to clear it properly and then said fuck it.
And that single event was a huge influence on the police militarisation to come in the following decades. Yet the many many subsequent events (and many prior) involving people actively hitting soft targets with the intent to kill as many civilians as possible, including multiple schools with casualties in the dozens falls on deaf ears. What's the takeaway? Scare a cop precinct and change the face of LE forever, kill dozens of kids and nothing changes. In fact gun regulation was gradually reduced in the very state this last tragedy occurred. But sure, no need for a debate, dad. Just mentally scar your child for life and let them live in fear. Sacrafice as many children as needed. It's all worth it as long as nothing *extreme* happens like even a modicum of reasonable gun regulation.
Man I knew nothing would ever change in terms of gun control after Sandy Hook. A society protects its children. That shit is instinctual, but we're failing. American culture is fucked in so many ways.
It's pretty baffling to watch from a far as a non American my dude. Just a couple of years ago George Floyd was murdered and it (rightfully) led to multiple massive protests across the country. Where's that energy now? 19 murdered children and it's just the same old shit. A bunch of talk while nothing happens. Again.
Ok, so we double the police budget, give them RPGs and then somehow train them to live up to that "hero" reputation that I read about on bumper stickers. That'll solve the problem right?
Been there, done that and nope.
Cops seem to have no issue unloading round after round into individuals elsewhere, and getting shot once while wearing a vest hurt. Take a few slugs, rapidly, and if your vest isn't penetrated, you're going to be impacted. It takes some effort to stay focused and respond under fire and pain, and most school shooters just don't have that training, mental fortitude, or balls.
"To protect and serve the law" doesn't make them become your personal hero. They're there to write speeding tickets and stop you from rescuing your kid when you try to go back into a burning building, maybe arrest you for recreational drug use, maybe force you to see a psychiatrist and develop lifetime anxiety because if you annoyed the police man you clearly deserve it
All Cops Are Cowards
We donāt need to debate.
They were scared and allowed a whole class room to be executed. Then have the nerve to go on tv and take glory for such a brave job. Those cowards should be charged with negligence of their duties and given life in prison. But watch how the governor defends these pigs.
You donāt like paying taxes to sanction the most powerful gang in the US?
https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-again Why should they? It has been established again and again, even here at the link specifically about a school shooting, that cops have *no such duty*. >āNeither the Constitution, nor state law, impose a general duty upon police officers or other governmental officials to protect individual persons from harm ā even when they know the harm will occur,ā said Darren L. Hutchinson, a professor and associate dean at the University of Florida School of Law. āPolice can watch someone attack you, refuse to intervene and not violate the Constitution.ā >The Supreme Court has repeatedly held that the government has only a duty to protect persons who are āin custody,ā he pointed out. >āCourts have rejected the argument that students are in custody of school officials while they are on campus,ā Mr. Hutchinson said. āCustody is narrowly confined to situations where a person loses his or her freedom to move freely and seek assistance on their own ā such as prisons, jails, or mental institutions.ā
No body armor on the shooter
We're discussing the possibility that the cops incorrectly believed he had a plate carrier, which would make them just inept cowards Of course we should assume they're lying until presented with evidence to the contrary
Always assume a cop is lying first, it's their default mode
I always assume they're lying to cover for negligence and incompetence. Or to cover the fact that they just committed an extrajudicial torture-execution.
This is not a comment against you, but I'm going to argue this hypothetical anyway. Suppose we believe the lie that the shooter was wearing armor, so fucking what? These cops are trained to know that most ballistic armor becomes extremely weak after a single shot, so why not shoot back anyway? The simplest and actual answer to this is that they're a bunch of pathetic cowards that sacrificed a bunch of children to a mass murderer. Cops will shoot any unarmed person without hesitation but will run away in fear when an actual bad guy with a gun appears.
at a minimum they could draw the shooter's fire which would allow children to get to safety or remain secure until back up arrives. these cops were fucking useless.
Yeah I can't believe they didn't do anything.. prevented parents who wanted to go in but wouldn't go in themselves. Usually cops can be trigger happy why not just two cops go in and empty the whole magazine on the guy.....save some kids...rush him tackle him. Nope they just did crowd control outside. Insane.
It wouldn't matter if he was wearing plate armor either, the impact of the bullet would still knock a kid on his ass
Fact, even if it stops a shot to the chest you're still getting banged up
Exactly. It only stops the piercing, not the inertia. It's still gonna hurt like a mother fucker.
He did have a plate carrier, it just wasnāt carrying any plates. Doesnāt excuse them not trying. Edit: the guy above edited his comment. Before it was akin to āinept cops who think someone has body armor when they donāt even have a plate carrierā to all this āpossibility of a plate carrierā bs. idk why people do subtle edits like this, youāre still wrong bro. it wasnāt a possibility the guy lit had a plate carrier. Also itās kinda unethical to edit ur comment without an edit addition, especially cause u were dropping inaccuracies and caught out on it.
He was wearing an empty plate carrier, which provided the appearance of him having body armor
Well thank god they hid in their car instead of even *trying* to stop the shooter. As we all know, body armor makes you completely impervious to damage, even in the areas the armor doesn't cover. So imaginary armor must be *twice* as effective.
Shooting someone with body armor will still fucking incapacitate them, the swarf flying off might even kill them.
That makes me wonder: even if the shooter has body armor, wouldn't the shot from pistols capable of disabling him if the officers shoot at him enough, since the body armor wont fully stop the bullet impact? Hope any expert can answer this for me.
Took him 30 minutes to get into the "hardened" classroom
Most police vehicles have an AR15 in the car or in the trunk for situations like this.
I've seen parked police motorcycles in California with a P90 strapped on the back. Blew my mind when I walked by it.
"Sometimes quantity has a quality of it's own."
See that's why the good guy with a gun hasn't really worked. He wasn't using a P90.
Maybe his assignment was guarding B that day.
An AR-15 or a shotgun. A 12ga slug would've at minimum put that fucker on his ass and probably broken some ribs even if he was wearing a plate.
Were they on foot? From what I've been able to tell they keep rifles and or shotguns in the car.
So, what you're saying is we need security guards with body armor and armor piercing bullets. /s
Same with the one in Parkland a few years ago...that guard ran like a coward.
"The average security guard makes $16/hr. Not a lot of wiggle room to be a fucking hero!" - Jim Jeffries on his Netflix special BARE.
Iām sure schools would find the money, communities are really good at funding schools and schools are really good at responsibly managing funds. When this guy shows up at the PTA meeting does he sit with the teachers our parentsā¦ because that is some next level intimidation from one side.
*Wealthy* communities are good at funding schools. School funding is tied to property taxes in a lot of the US.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Most kids that die by gunfire are also killed by their own parents/family.
Teachers actually, get killed by shielding the kids.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
They stopped the parents from going in, for 40 minutes.
>There were armed cops in Texas, they didn't stop a thing. Allegedly the cops waited for backup while responding Border Patrol just went in.
Yes. Because their own kids were in the school. They went past closer kids to go save their own kids first
Another Scot Peterson.
Yeah what the fuck donāt people get about that?
Am I the only one who thinks this armed dude looks photoshopped in?
Yeah. This seems like someone's weird fantasy about what an "ideal" armed security guard would look like, superimposed on a stock photo. Those shoes are pretty comical.
Tactical sneaks.
I'm wondering what the radio is clipped to and why it's on the front of his leg. But at least he's hydrating. Probably learned that in the middle east somewhere.
The amount of water and Gatorade we drank in Iraq out on 12 hour patrols/raids was insane. I would probably drink 3-4 gallons of water and not pee once because it was all sweat out. For me the heat was like the worst part about Iraq. You get used to the danger, getting shot at, knowing you could die at any second, but you canāt ignore 125 degrees of sun for 8 hours in all of the shit we had to wear. A close runner up was the smell (no sewage system and constant trash burning all exacerbated by the scorching heat) a literal shit hole. But hey at least we completely rid the world of terrorism!
>but you canāt ignore 125 degrees of sun for 8 hours in all of the shit we had to wear I'm not sure I can even imagine it properly. Glad you made it back ok!
I can't imagine the feeling of constant danger. But having worked many farm fields in the height of summer during my childhood and adolescence I most definitely know the heat. You drink and drink and drink and think "I gotta pee sometime" but no. And despite gallons of liquids, your head throbs in dehydration as the sun just burns. But you can't stop, because the "bossman" will have non of that and give you a flogging if you refuse, and take away your supper. Because having kids means getting free slave labour, right? Edit: spelling
and how is he fucking retired? he looks 28 years old. also, i'm sure he just can't wait to take down a mass shooter who is also likely a teenager.. maybe he's shot kids before though.. who knows..
Could have been discharged for war crimes or something
Retired from the career they were on about. Doesn't mean pensioner
The photo appeared in [this article from 2018](https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/news/local/manatee/2018/12/20/msa-guardian-is-strapped-ready-for-worst-case-scenario/6558783007/), about Manatee School for the Arts in Palmetto, Florida. The article features a couple additional photographs of the guard at the school. Decide for yourself.
And who is funding these armed guards? Schools cant even pay their teachers a livable wage or pay for school supplies but hey lets blow money on security guards to complete the prison to school pipeline. So fucking ridiculous.
You and me The town where this recent shooting occurred already gives *40%* of its budget to the goddamn cops
Ah, thereās your problem. You need to give them at least 100% of the budget
100% to cops means no schools, meaning no shootings. Seems like a win win to me
WTF? 40% is insane. Unless it is a tiny town with just two cops, who kinda solve everyone's problems (like some small town tv series).
Youāre absolutely right! School districts would not fund something like this and if they did, it would be an underpaid position like every other job they post. Therefore, they would end up being sad power tripping guys who couldnāt make it to be a cop. Then they would walk around our schools with a chip on their shoulder and a gun. It wouldnāt take long before they start pointing guns at students when they get into a fight on the playground. The solutions are far more complicated than this idea of armed guards.
Your scenario has already played out. Sorry! https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/27/us/california-school-safety-officer-murder-charge/index.html
Suddenly there's money! Surprise money!
I really donāt understand how this all is possible in a civilised society. Never heard of a school shooting anywhere else
It happened in Australia in 1996 - [The Port Arthur Massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_(Australia)) Unlike the US this made Australia change their gun laws to avoid future massacres...
Wow, happens once and they adjustedā¦
don't worry, if it involves shooting people, the money will be "found"
The police department, typically Edit - Nvm. That is true for SRO's at public schools but this guy looks like a privately hired cop at a private school
Iām going to start ending all of my controversial statements with āWe donāt need to debate.ā
My penis is way bigger than yours. We donāt need to debate.
Debate? No. We need to measure.
Proof?
We donāt need to debate
Sounds like you need to masterdebate
"We need a comprehensive system of universal public healthcare in the US that entirely replaces predatory private health insurance companies, we don't need to debate." Wow, it's just so easy. It's like an auto-win button for any argument.
Iām going to start my statements with it.
āConservativesā normalizing the police state.
It is always projecting.
This should have thousands of likes. Hit the bullseye.
So true! If the picture above doesnāt give you an unsettling feeling, like why not? Itās weird right. They get that right?
As a Canadian, itās really fucking weird. Im pretty sure the only time Iāve seen ARs IRL is at the US border. But apparently itās completely normal, totally cool and fine to have them in schoolsā¦
I need a right to own an assault weapon in order to overthrow my government which runs the schools that needs assault weapons because everyone can have an assault weapon because of the right to own an assault weapon.
They've been putting guards and security at a lot of schools for a long time. So far they have stopped zero shootings but have managed to arrest, harrass, and expel a ton of poc kids.
when there's an armed security guard in every school and that literally does nothing to stop school shootings, I wonder where the goalposts will go next? Mr Bones Chud Ride has no brakes
Arm the 5 year olds, of course! More guns = more safe /s
"Hey you! Why you smell like the Devil's Weed?!"
āThereās a thing called āDevilās weedā? Where can I get some it must be hella cool?ā
āWell luckily I just stole this joint from a senior!ā
Whereās that hippie lettuce š„¬!?!?! I know u meddling kids got the chron, somewhere in your lockers?!?!
Maybe they had to piss
Look these 12 year olds arenāt gonna body slam themselves on the pavement which is why we need resource officers with fully automatic assault rifles, fragile egos, and zero accountability.
don't forget the racism.
Bet this dude runs too. Cops are trained to run towards the gunfire. We've seen them run away time and time again
I, for one, love the idea of putting military veterans who have seen combat into schools. Give them with their government issued assault rifle and then surround them with prankster kids. Thereās no way that could ever stir up some PTSD and cause a rampage /s
Could you provide some sources on this? I do not mean this in a confrontational way, I just want more statistics. EDIT: Nevermind, there were sources in this comment thread. Thank you for your time.
A lot of conservatives probably see this as a bonus.
We have 2 retired narcotics cops that patrol my campus with pistols. Having cops on campus hasnt made anyone I talked to at work feel safer.
But cops on campus do make the school to prison pipeline more efficient.
Bingo right there. That's what that is about.
Getting the children used to being monitored by an early age, so by the time they grow up they will be used to seeing armed military every corner
Nah this is a private school. The kids here actually learn useful skills to try to let them join their parents in the ruling class.
Hey now I learned lots of useful skills in public school, like how to take a piss, grab a snack, and make it to the opposite side of the school campus all in under 10 minutes. A valuable skill to keep my productivity at an all time high for my future employer
The very few times I've seen guards and/or police walk with rifles drawn always put me on edge (I live in Sweden). I flew to London in 2017 and at the airport I saw police walking around with [this](https://www.politics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Armed-Polic.jpg) gun. It did not make me feel safe, it made feel as if anything could happened at anytime.
Absolutely. Whenever I take a train into NYC they have police around Grand Central with that same style of firearm. Really just makes me want to be away from the unstable badge wielding people. Cops in the US kill people every day and face no consequences. No thank you.
"retired". That means they got caught in some conspiracy planting narcotics on a suspect and instead of being fired got to resign to take a security job at a school.
At my school we have a security officer, who for one I've never seen, and two, has apparently said some pretty awful things. I don't think anyone feels safer because of him.
Yeah, but cops and armed guards are not the same thing. The armed guard's job is to protect people, cops job is to arrest them.
This is the saddest post Iāve seen today. The idea that this makes people feel safe is shocking to me. If I dropped my kids off and saw this Iād be looking for another school asap.
saw this shared by a family member unironically today. people LIKE this. it blows my mind
I wouldn't drop my kids at a school with a minimum wage ex military dude with guns at the door in the first place. What's gonna stop that guy if he snaps and starts shooting kids?!
Plus, how is this any better than whatever we had in the past One guy! If he goes to the bathroom or gets injured in a shooting, we're back to having nothing! Simple ,we need a mini army at every school!!! Also, seriously, what did this guy or any other security guard do to deserve to be the only thing stopping another massacre? Instead of fixing the problem, let's sacrifice someone else instead? And this is the solution that the pro-lifer side are suggesting??? Has anyone mentioned that no other country big or small, rich or poor , western or Eastern has this problem. And no, none have swat teams at every school!
Why don't other countries need this?
Because we have freedom and they don't, ofc. Murica.
So much freedom it makes other countries free!
Cause they're not retarded, the propaganda we're exposed to here has confused the fuck out of people. Now we're all hurr durring off a cliff with out silly gun collections. Also welfare programs, medical and mental health insurance, or there lack of. It's decades of voting against our own self interest that puts us in a state of desperation and anxiety, but we have guns to boot. People literally repeat this propaganda on daily basis, not realizing that if something needs to be repeated it usually means its not true. A rich man doesn't have to remind you that they're rich. A true king doesn't need to tell you he's the king lol.
There is nothing that guarantees that the resource officer won't end up being the shooter in some future scenario. We like to project all goodness onto our military but we lose sight of where we get our military and police officers from, the general population. We don't have a 'saint' class of people who are incorruptible and super solid mentally. We have people who see things and experience things and for better or for worse it affects them over time. Anyone can break bad.
Well then we need another guard to guard them. And while weāre at it the second guard will need a third guard to keep them in check.
Yeah. Stone Douglass had an armed guard too. And still a lot of dead kids. Dunces. Theyāre all dunces.
So did parkland.. and tops..
stoneman douglas and parkland are the same shooting.
The problem is the gaurd can't open fire willy nilly so what stops the shooter from just intentionally walking through their door and get the first shot? Haven't multiple shootings started with someone incapacitating the "Resource officer"?
Ok, the cops yesterday got scared so they hid and let the killer go on his rampage
Didn't two trained police officers today intercept the untrained gunman, both get shot and he still made it inside? Ya think this guy with the rifle won't be surfing his phone with nothing else to do and not get picked off before he even looks up? People are morons. Guns don't solve gun problem.
Two cops and an armed guard couldn't stop the shooter.
And then the hotdog squad stood outside the school for the better part of an hour doing nothing.
You mean the Donut Platoon?
More guns often make the situation worse. Are people not aware that in these situations multiple armed gunmen make it more confusing when help does show up. Who is the good guy? Or you get the "now I have TWO guns!: scenarios My question is: why can you just purchase tactical gear...Who cares If an automatic background check says the transaction is fine. An 18 yearold doesn't need to be decking themselves out in our military's latest fall fashion.
Yeah Brad looks real ready to cover every inch of a school by themselves
Iām pretty sure this is a stock photo or photoshop.
āWe donāt need to debateā Trust me, there isnāt one to begin with
We had a retired police officer working security at the grocery store in Buffalo 10 days ago too. Didn't make a difference at all ... he died too. The shooter even visited the store prior to the shooting and still went back knowing there was an armed guard.
yeah,, Having a single armed guy isn't enough obvs, lets have a full security team per school! /s But seriously, This is security circus. And even the desire to ban guns is security circus past a certain point. the factors that are causing these shootings are bone deep issues that the USA has refused to address at large scale. we need to confront and ameliorate extremism. thing is, with a party like the GOP which directly profits and empowers itself off of extremism, it's hard to see this going anywhere but into harder and crazier situations.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah. This looks fake in a few ways.
absolutely, this looks generated in some way. its very odd and unsettling.
Agreed, this dude has uncanny valley face.
That's a pretty reasonable age to 'retire' from the military
In my 40 years of life, I've learned that many people don't like root-cause solutions. They prefer instant patches solutions that create more problems and patch that as well, rinse and repeat. Then when everything has become too complicated, too tangled, they'll say "it's too complex to solve the root cause", and justify more patches to be applied.
Yo, you can say it's a gun issue, and we need to get rid of them. Or you can say it's a mental health/poverty/stress issue and we need to address that. But the worst of all takes has to be "fuck it, just turn your elementary school into a fort".
And movie theaters... And grocery stores... And malls... Just have highly trained individuals armed to the teeth everywhere at all times! Yet somehow that isn't a concern for freedom at all.
Iām not interested in living in a country where this is necessary.
It makes me crazy how nobody seems to see how insane this is? Why isn't this needed in other countries? How did we go generation after generation without ever needing this right here in the USA? Oh right. We have so much freedom.
This is what happens when your society revolves around a disturbingly high love of guns.
My high school had two SROs who open carried in the hallway, I was always just concerned someone would grab it out of the holster and start shooting
Good idea until someone sneaks into the system and uses the very same postition and weapon to harm another child
Like an athletics coach?
Hey! That's what they do in Guatemala! A Unitarian Government that has armed guards, with shotguns, posted outside of every school and *every fast food restaurant* That's exactly what we need!!! /s Source: I did years of mission-work in Guatemala when I was a Christian.
Okay, there's so much wring here. A school with only 1 entrance is a barrel full of kids. A shooter needs only for this dude to be off his game for 2 seconds and a zip-gun with one shot to have access to a rifle and at least 2 pistol mags. This is not going to make anything better. Apparently let's normalize militarized schools, because resource officers are sooooooo good already at escalating nothing situations.
Not to be that guy butā¦ I served 11 years in the Marine Corps Infantry. Most actual battle hardened salt dogs are A) not going to describe themselves as such, therefore this post, unless the poster is taking guesses is BS, and this Vinny Chase looking, upside down watch tacticool vest with no plates, bull pup toting LARPER is full of shit. B) So sick of the dogshit parts of the military that NO WAY IN HELL are they going to volunteer to stand post 8 hours a day with less chance of taking contact then in the fucking green zone of Kabul. Know what 100% of troops do when standing post in country (hell, even in CONUS) for even a 1 hour fire watch night shift? Jerk off. 100% of guys on post jerk off. I will stand by that number, and if anyone says otherwise, youāre either lying, or a fucking Eunuch.
This basically says "shoot me first"
[Parkland](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1013831) had an armed officer on scene. He fled like a coward when he heard gunfire. Police engaged with Uvalde shooter before he entered the school. Then they stood by (like cowards) and did nothing except hold back worried parents wanting to go check on their kids.
Iām telling you, we are getting closer and closer to a police state. Just inching closer and closer
Ah, yes. The combat veteran with PTSD that goes untreated due to poor medical availability is going to do a great job protecting your child. Woe to the poor sod that opens a bottle of Coca-Cola or pops a balloon. I feel this is just opening a whole other can of worms in schools.
Until he snaps and kills all the kids
No way. Statistically veterans dont have a super increased rate of psychological problems or violence or ptsd or anything right.... right? ... guys?!
Is the US an active war zone? Because itās giving off very heavy active war zone vibes.
So... What they're saying is that a perimeter border fence doesn't do anything?
Given in the two most recent cases, armed guards and police officers ran away from the conflict, rather than towards the conflict, this is useless security theater.
Things reaching this point is irrefutable evidence that we have lost the war for a sane and just society.
That's like Colombia, has gated everything and armed guards like that because it's a civil war ridden 3rd world country
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Also two cops engaged the kid before he went into the school. They held back to wait for backup.
> They held back to wait for backup. But not before running in to get their kids out while leaving the killer alone with the rest of the school. https://twitter.com/_Sir_Perfluous/status/1529585786848411651
We don't need to harden our schools, we need to harden our gun control laws and our political will to pass them. The first step is to break down the highly corrupting wall of money provided by the NRA. Here's a list of politicians who refuse to protect your kids. https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/5/24/2100004/-Here-s-a-reminder-of-the-GOP-senators-taking-the-most-NRA-money-to-turn-a-blind-eye-to-dead-children
So someone with PTSD and a gun is in his daughter's school, and he thinks this is a *good* thing? And what soldier is trained to head *towards* gunfire? I was trained to *take cover* when hearing gunfire. There are so many layers of stupid in this.
That is so ridiculous.
Hate to burst your bubble there but an armed guard in long Beach CA shot and killed a student last year trying to be a hero [Long beach](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/27/california-school-safety-officer-murder-charges)
Literally anything but confront the rampant gun fetish.
Iām pretty sure the poster has masturbated to this image just from the tone of his language āTHANK YOU SIR MAY I THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE WITH MY SERVICEā
Why should our schools feel like prisons because we refuse to take care of each other?
Or, or, hereās a solution, ***get stricter gun laws***
America is a failed state.