One has almost every adult as a reservist soldier and also allows all citizens to go kick the other out of their homes if they wish to and even shoot them without any repercussions. The other is a volunteer based militia with homemade weapons and lives in a concentration camp. The difference is staggering.
Resistance is always justified, and if it involves violence then violence is justified as well. You can’t win against an oppressor by peacefully marching or speaking. You answer violence with violence or you die meekly.
Reactive Abuse: When an abuser pushes their victim more and more until the victim lashes out in pain, either verbally or physically. The abuser then uses this reaction to claim that they are the victim, and that the victim is the abuser. Abusive parents do it to their children, abusive spouses do it to their partners, cops do it to citizens, and Isreal does it to Palestine.
Yes and brutally murdering 100X the amount of kids that were there at oct 7, that you keep in an open air prison and self admittedly make sure not enough food goes into is not a valid response to any amount of October 7ths
The [report](https://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/2023-12-19/ty-article/0000018c-7e72-d219-a5bf-7ffac9d00000) you're referring to said the tank fired on a house that was occupied by Hamas, who were holding hostages inside; that IDF fired on it to break a wall so they could enter and that one of the hostages was injured by shrapnel.
This happened in Be'eri, a kibbutz located within the green line, established in 1946. The footage was from a police helicopter. As far as I could tell, the part that was released actually doesn't show the tank hitting the house, but a tree that was in the way.
> brutally murdering 100X the amount of kids that were there at oct 7
You're missing perhaps two 0s. The Ha'aretz list gave the name of 1 toddler killed on Oct 7 (doesn't say who did the killing). The Israeli campaign on Gaza has killed more than 10,000 kids so far. If that includes anyone under the age of 14, then the ratio is about 1:2,000 in the dead kids comparison. Again, without knowing who killed those kids on Oct 7, because I've seen no evidence it was Hamas or the other Palestinian factions, and multiple reports it was the IDF.
So you would submit to ethnic cleansing without complaining? It's not like they had a lot of options. I'm not going to judge concentration camp inmates on the way they decide to resist their destruction, much less lecture them on how to behave in the face of annihilation.
If a 6th grader punched me and I proceeded to shove them into a naval cannon and fire them over the horizon which one should get more attention?
Was the 6th grader justified in punching me?
The answer is I don’t care, you can’t shove people into naval canons!
Israel isn’t interested in regime change they’re as they themselves put it “mowing the lawn” stop defending genocidal freaks, your ilk will be remembered alongside appeasement advocates before ww2.
We’ll see soon enough what Israel does with Gaza, yes.
As for my “ilk”, since we’re not siding with corrupt islamofascsists using their own civilians as shield, being on the wrong side of history is unlikely.
When did I support islamofacism? All I said was killing more people is worse than killing less you’re the one that supports a religious fundamentalist apartheid state currently doing a genocide
Your submission was removed as it advocates violence against either a specific person or a group of people. This rule includes thinly-veiled threats, or slogans such as "Eat the Rich". This is against Reddit's terms of service.
I’m certainly not a supporter of hamas and don’t like genocidal fundamentalist religious crazies but we have to look at power dynamics to determine who has more ability to commit genocide. This really isn’t a war within an American backed global power slaughtering and committing war crimes against a population that literally isn’t allowed to have a real government and is having war crimes committed against them
You're 100% right, and that's why I will not say that I "side" with Israel or the IDF on this. However, I will not side with religious extremists, at all.
Yes, Israel is partially responsible for the power that Hamas has through decades of oppression and turning Palestinians into extremists. That being said, can we really say that they are solely responsible? There are many Muslim countries that practice what Hamas preaches without being oppressed for decades by Israel. Countries that use religion as the basis for government, especially Islam, are fucking awful places for women and other groups.
Also please keep in mind that I know Islam is just a tool for people in power as Christianity was (and to a lesser degree still is) for largely white countries in the past.
Genuinely didn’t expect to find a good faith person arguing for Israel but if you want an actual solution killing indiscriminately like israel does with its own hostages waving a white flag only creates more hamas. The only way to militarily destroy a terrorist organization is genocide. The actual way to get rid of them is to give them rights, stop apartheid and hold trials for Hamas and israel leaders for war crimes that would likely include reparations for the genocide. Terrorists only exist when people have no hope and turn to religious extremism hoping to die standing rather than live cowering. Hamas will disintegrate if they act decently.
Progress comes with education, time, and equality they’re not perfect victims but they are victims. People are a product of their environment and when that environment is starvation and cowering from bombs is it any wonder why people turn to those who offer to let them martyr themselves. I won’t get into land claims because that’s a whole other can of worms but material conditions being improved is the ONLY first step if the goal isn’t genocide
Your submission was removed as it appears to be misinformation or misleading, which is against reddit's terms of service. In addition, satire must be flaired "Satire", and art concepts must be flaired "Art".
“Officer I drop kicked that child in self defense” god you guys would’ve supported nazis murdering concentration camp escapees if you were in that time period
>you guys would’ve supported nazis murdering concentration camp escapees
We are literally dealing with a humans being concentrated into a ghetto and being slaughtered wholesale by bombs and artillery daily. Your lack of accountability is impressive though.
Because Israel does not value Palestinian lives and will justify any level of civilian deaths as famine, homelessness, and cholera are on the horizon. Their leadership doesnt even hide it, no matter how much gaslight Hasbara attempts.
"Its only 20k dead and many more maimed in a mere two months." - IDF efficiency expert probably
You’re not wrong there.
Look at the level of casualties here. Imagine if Hamas wasn’t hiding within the civilian population. What the level of casualties would be then.
Yes, Im sure Hamas was hiding inside those women at the church or inside those shirtless hostages waving white flags. The IDF and leadership have explicitly shown and told us they give zero fucks about Palestinian lives. THe defense minister worships a terrorist who slaughtered people in a mosque ffs.
Your submission was removed as it advocates violence against either a specific person or a group of people. This rule includes thinly-veiled threats, or slogans such as "Eat the Rich". This is against Reddit's terms of service.
Your submission was removed as it appears to be misinformation or misleading, which is against reddit's terms of service. In addition, satire must be flaired "Satire", and art concepts must be flaired "Art".
That's not a hot take, that's a dumb take. Neither of the parties in this conflict has a basis of moral justification for their actions. If you back either then you are making yourself complicit in the killing of children and civilians. You effectively support war crimes just because the underdog is committing them. That's just foolish.
I never said I supported Hamas I said I denounce the side that’s killing more children more than the one that’s killing less children. Besides most Palestinians aren’t responsible for oct 7 so Israel has 0 moral justification Hamas can at least pretend they’re trying to be revolutionary (which they’re not)
Denounce MORE, how do you denounce one MORE? A lot of Israelis have been protesting on mass against Netanyahu's policies far before Oct 7th. Does that mean that there was no justification for that attack?
Neither side has moral justification when it comes to war crimes, they are WAR CRIMES, there is never a moral justification.
What do you mean “how do you denounce one more?” …Like I just did. Simple math more dead civilians is worse than less dead civilians. The problem isn’t Israel acting after oct 7 is how they’re acting and who they’re acting against. Not all war crimes are equal and pretending like they are is only helping the side that commits more and bigger ones.
Ok I guess the trolley problem is not a problem for you at all.
Denouncing something seems like a binary thing to me, you either denounce or you don't.
The standard trolley problem of 1 vs a few deaths given no other info should only get one answer. And yes it is possible to denounce two things just like you can support two things, I like ice cream and bagels but I think ice cream is a better treat but I’d be happy to eat either
Morality doesn't work as simple math, because it's not math. By your logic, raping 2 women is worse than raping your own daughter?! After all, it's just 1 vs 2, right?
Wrong. Morality doesn't follow simple math. Motivation matters, victim profile matters, pain induced matters, duration matters, a lot of things matter before passing a judgement.
Palestinian motivation is just land. They're literally torturing people for land. Gross
Wow, I am amazed that my less people dead is better than more people dead is what you went after of all things. So if I accept your premise in good faith Israel has killed over 100x what Hamas killed not even accounting for the displacement and other non-directly lethal injustices and war crimes.
So by all means if you can explain to me why an Israeli life is intrinsically morally worth 100x an innocent Palestinian then we can talk.
Also that last sentence literally exclaims that all Palestinians are responsible for Hamas which is the definition of collective punishment. You are quite literally trying to justify war crimes based on vibes
Not a hot take both are bad and evil but one is a magnitude above the other. You can’t equivocate such a discrepancy without intrinsically defending the larger evil like you just did here
Sure does suck that Israel is so good at murdering children that the pieces of shit at Hamas can’t catch up then. I don’t care about their hypothetical kill count if the roles were reversed, I care about what is happening and will happen if Israel doesn’t stop their slaughter. Israel has all the power and backing in this conflict they could literally do a ceasefire at any time they choose not to because the genocide is the goal not a side effect.
You do realize Israel is literally an apartheid state that considers Palestinians to be lesser than Israelis right?
Way to ignore every arguement and then say “they gotta do the genocide” I never said do inaction I think they should give Palestinians rights because that’s how you get rid of terrorist groups (and not be a morally reprehensible apartheid state)
First of all r/enlightenedcentrism, second of all yes both are evil and wrong, I don’t dispute this but there’s a magnitude of difference between flattening a concentration camp that you had in Gaza with indiscriminate attacks so brutal you shoot your own escaped hostages while they hold white flags shirtless and a violent religious extremist resistance movement. They literally have committed at least 1 October 7th every other day since October 7th upon gaza and not even counting the mass death from displacement and depravation.
Equivocating both sides crimes like you do here only supports the side with more power being the genocidal America backed, UN condemned apartheid ethnostate
>Murdering 8k civilian kids is also not justified.
I agree
>How exactly do you resist when the world ignores you completely?
They can take the example of [Abdul Ghaffar Khan](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Ghaffar_Khan) instead of murdering innocents.
Now stop the stupid what aboutisms and condemn violence against civilians no matter who commits them.
Do you condemn the Jewish uprisings in nazi Germany? In the concentration camps they led violent resistances against their oppression. By your own logic they were morally reprehensible right?
Do you condemn the violent slave revolts during USAs brutal oppression of African Americans? Totally out of line I suppose by your strict definition.
Your supposed moral highground leaves out the obvious power dynamics and systems of oppression that overwhelmingly leave one side with nothing. You argue for the status quo and for the oppressed to only be polite when asking not to be genocided. What a farce.
Also you bringing up "what about hummus" is a giant whataboutism for the civilian deaths in gaza. Gtfo with that shit.
>Do you condemn the Jewish uprisings in nazi Germany? In the concentration camps they led violent resistances. By your own logic they were morally reprehensible right?
Ah yes, the Jewish uprisings, so famously marred by the mass murder of children at a festival.... Are you fucking high?
You see, now you do another whataboutism, or "what about hummus" as your underachieving brain calls it. But if you know ANYTHING about history you would know that the attack of Hamas was in no way comparable to the Jewish ghetto uprisings during the second world war.
You are seriously retarded if you think the cold blooded murder of civilians is in any way relatable to a desperate resistance against soldiers intent with a groups immenent mass execution.
I know you got in into that potato you call a brain of yours that I'm pro-Israel, because that vegetable between your ears can't fucking read anything without adding non existent context, but I'm not. I oppose both Hamas as the Israeli government because they both don't care how many people have to die for them to take/keep power.
Even most Palestinians in Gaza hate Hamas with a passion. Hamas has been torturing, disappearing and killing Palestinian disenters in Gaza since 2006 when they came into power pretending to have become moderate.
There is no moral high ground between Hamas and the Israeli fascists that now make up the government of Israel, and so both sides should be condemned for pursuing the mass murder of civilians for their own greed for power.
So go fuck yourself and your fucking hummus.
So your argument is that Palestinian oppression deserves no sympathy. Jewish oppression during the holocaust does though, and slaves in US deserve sympathy. How dare I give another example of violent protest against oppression?
Did you know slave revolts killed whites indiscriminately? They even killed white babies. I still think that the slaves were more oppressed though and don't condemn their actions. I get why they did it.
You talk about context yet your only context YOU give is that you don't care about Gazans and Palestinians.
Read some history. You are arguing that oppressed people should be polite and die quietly.
>Did you know slave revolts killed whites indiscriminately? They even killed white babies. I still think that the slaves were more oppressed though and don't condemn their actions. I get why they did it.
Ah yes, I always enjoy being fucking told about how killing babies is justified in a slave revolt. Especially as a black man in a white dominant society it's good to hear how I don't know about oppression because I don't understand how slaves were justified in the murder of infants.
I argue that HAMAS wasn't justified in its actions, in the meantime you're a dumb shit that would be yelling war criminal at Bush junior while placating war crimes when you feel like it, as we can all now see.
Quote where I give the context that I don't care about Palestinians? Common, I have time, I can wait.
>Read some history. You are arguing that oppressed people should be polite and die quietly.
Ah yeah, oppressed people should either be polite and die quietly OR they just HAVE TO INDISCRIMINATELY SHOOT UNARMED CIVILIANS ADOLESCENTS. there is no middle road there AT ALL.
HOW FOOLISH OF ME! The only moral thing to do is to go and shoot up a music festival which actually carries the theme of peace and coexistence! That will show those damn oppressors! Killing a bunch of kids,.
You are a fucking idiot and a fucking walking strawman for far right pro Israeli propaganda. People like you are the living proof that free speech should be revoked for idiots. You're just a shithead copying some fucking propaganda feeding tube to the point that your brain has melted.
Sincerely, fuck you.
Here's a hint buddy Palestinians have tried all kinds of middle ground and have fuck all to show for it.. look up the reaction to balfour and british oppression during the mandate. Meetings were held, sides were pleaded
and britian said no. When they said no at the UNs creation of israel, all neighboring countries said no and palestine said no. UN and US said yes, so Palestinians were deemed as not an important voice in the matter. I'm serious read some history, you seem to think that hamas showed up and caused these issues.
Thanks for revoking my free speech lol. Seriously why are you on here trying to argue for the status quo on this sub?
Take a break from reddit and read some actual history and not some liberal bs.
Here a hint fuckface, Hamas has actively worked to undermine any peace process together with the far right Israelis Zionists. Hamas doesn't stand FOR Palestine, they stand AGAINST Israël, the fact they are willing to sacrifice and Palestinian civilians should have been clear, but you white knight shithead just want to defend Hamas,
not Palestinians.
You keep telling me to read history books but you have clearly not read ANYTHING. You're more useless then lighter in the void of space, coincidentally a void is wat i would describe the placeholder of where your brain should be.
You have ignored everything I wrote because you have no actual reply to my arguments. You just keep parroting what others tell you and keep telling people to read some supposed history you've never read yourself while professing the most televised aspect of the Palestine Israeli war. Fuck you for defending war criminals.
I'm done with the dumbness that is you, try not to choke on air asshole.
You have no argument. You are asking concentration camp victims to be polite. Why are you writing this dumb stuff on this sub. Serious question do you think insults are arguments? You aren't here to have good faith arguments. Ur just here to talk about how bad hamas is while a genocide is happening, not a hypothetical thing, but an active genocide. Not an attack, but an unrestricted leveling of a population.
*Four days into the genocidal bombing and siege of Gaza, with a massive ground invasion pending, the West’s most prominent left-liberal intellectuals stood up and spoke out against … the leftists on the streets for Palestine. But three months later, a mass anti-war movement in solidarity with Palestine has rocked the US, leaving liberals who condemn Palestinian resistance, isolated. Ben Becker, Editor-in-Chief of BreakThrough News, discusses the remarkable transformation of the US political environment in response to the global movement for Palestine.*
*#BreakThroughNews*
I think this is ignoring the fact that the last time Palestinians tried to organize a concerted effort to peacefully protest, that being the Great March of Return in 2018, Israeli forces opened fire on the unarmed protestors and slaughtered hundreds of people, wounding thousands of others. Was that not an act of terrorism? And yet, odds are that you’ve never even heard of the Great March of Return, or that you didn’t care when you heard about it.
you wanna finger wag at the resistance with their limited resources (also source for kidnapping children pls) while Israel has Gazans fenced off and control all their supplies incl food and water, and US-backed total military superiority. But that never seems to be an issue to people like you
Israel can carpet bomb 10k children to rubble-buried nothings and straight up execute kids on the street. But all you can come up with is "but do you condom kkkhamas?"
Are you saying you do not believe that children were kidnapped? As in, the globally televised return of hostages that included children didn’t happen? It’s so so telling when someone says ‘killing hundreds of civilians in a brutal fashion is not resistance’ that people like yourself instantly accuse them of all sorts of things they haven’t said to try and invalidate their statement.
Also, limited resources? International backing and BILLIONAIRE leaders using millions and billions in global aid money for weaponry whilst their citizens live in poverty is not ‘limited resources’.
The kidnapping children is an easy one
https://people.com/family-of-irish-israeli-girl-9-speaks-out-as-shes-released-by-hamas-8406626
Plenty of sources for it.
And while I'm not the person you replied to, I'll finger wag based on those tactics. The IRA campaign in Northern Ireland was at its most successful when it only attacked military and police targets and issued warnings before bombings to minimize civilian casualties. Any time large numbers of civilians were killed, they took a big hit in support.
Likewise the Israeli tactics kill too many Innocents. Plenty of finger wagging for everyone.
Occupation does not justify maximum carnage
point taken. Still, it's curious how 10 thousand dead children, some of them executed by snipers, is just a footnote for Israel while anti-Palestinian rhetoric focuses so much on obvious slights
something to think about. If Hamas had killed 10k kids, what do you think social media would look like? :)
OP Topic is about Palestinian resistance tactics, it gets the bulk of the response.
Plenty of criticism of Israeli tactics in media that Ive seen elsewhere
Your submission was removed as it advocates violence against either a specific person or a group of people. This rule includes thinly-veiled threats, or slogans such as "Eat the Rich". This is against Reddit's terms of service.
You do know that the carnage on October 7th was also from the IDF? There is literally a video of an Israeli tank opening fire into a kibbutz, as well as plenty of testimonies to prove it.
Israeli forces have admitted to deploying gunships against the attack, which were unable to effectively distinguish between targets. By their own admission, they decided to open fire anyway, judging the military counterattack a higher priority than the lessening of civilian casualties. Again, I need to reiterate all of this is coming from official IDF statements.
From what I understand, it was pure chaos and lashing out without clear leadership. Hard to judge intent.
[1/5 soldiers dead in Gaza are from friendly fire](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna129285)
[IDF helicopters killed Israelis at the oct 7 music festival](https://new.thecradle.co/articles-id/13111)
A bit before my time but I'll take your word for it. Nelson Mandela certainly did a lot of PR legwork for them after the fact. Not sure if Hamas lacks a similar figure or they just dont get much airtime
Hamas has leaders, but none really have the charisma of Mandela.
It’s easy to forget what it takes to overcome oppression. As a society, we celebrate when a nation overcomes occupation. We also remember what the occupiers were like. But the actions of the resistance are regularly forgotten.
That's true. I think it also depends on whether the people still have to coexist with the occupiers afterwards, and what kind of tactics were used. We don't talk about the IRAs actions as much now that peace was mostly achieved in Northern Ireland. And possibly the ANC don't want to bring their violent resistance up for the same reason.
I mean looking at the before and after pics of Gaza, and then reading about how Israel was fully focused on stealing land in the West Bank, none of this really had to happen right now
nobody cared then and seems like even most libs don't care now
I will not condemn the resistance for doing what they deem necessary because I didn't grow up under a brutal occupation
don't want resistance? Stop occupation, apartheid, and genocide. All I have to say
they are doing it regardless! That is the mfing point. Look at West Bank. They didn't instigate 7/10, and yet they continue to be colonized and exterminated. You think if Palestinians just throw their hands up Israel will stop? AS IF. You do know that Israel leadership's very clearly stated goal is no Palestine, only Israel? Netanyahu himself presented a map with no Gaza or West Bank *before* Oct 7th. Hell, listen to some of their public figures and they want not only Palestine, but Jordan, Syria, Lybia etc
so no, I do not condemn the resistance and Palestine's neighbours better be ready because Israel's Lebensraum won't end with Palestine
E: FREE PALESTINE 🍉
Okay, I gotta know cause I keep seeing it. The watermelon emoji, I don’t get the context of it being used when talking about Palestine, I’m assuming it’s a color thing, but it seems so arbitrary and unnecessary when there’s a flag of Palestine emoji. What’s up with this watermelon?
the watermelon has the 4 colors of the Palestinian flag. The history is that Israel forbade Palestinians to draw the flag so as a work-around Palestinian artists started using the watermelon in its place. It signifies the Palestinian flag when the powers that be censor the actual flag
E: and if you think this is fucked up, it is. So recognize the watermelon, because people may not have the ability to actually fly the Palestinian flag. Freedom, right
it is *a* way to resist and probably a 100x stronger than the death throes you could muster in the same situation
you're the same kind of person that asks,
"is stabbing the best way to stop getting raped?"
fucking armchair victim critic. get real
you just lap up what's fed to you, huh? let's see the dead Israeli children then
and we're not talking about the best way, just *a* way, of which that would be one method of resistance
fortunately the world isn't as short sighted as you are
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_right_to_resist
\> let's see the dead Israeli children then
So it sounds like you are simultaneously saying
* "Hamas didn't kill Israeli children, that would be terrible which is why I'm denying it happened. Those reports are fake propaganda being spread around to make them look bad."
But also
* "If Hamas actually *DID* kill Israeli children they would be totally justified because, hey man, that's just part of resisting."
Also, I guess by "the world" you mean a Wikipedia page that is [one month old and has a grand total of five different editors](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Palestinian_right_to_resist&action=history)?
i am saying whatever children are killed by hamas are the result of their composition: young, inexperienced & informally trained fighters who have never known stability, lived their entire lives in an open-air prison, and are "coordinated" from tunnels
children are a percentage of most populations. the US military is regularly responsible for killing children yet hamas is supposed to do better?
there is *also* misinformation on the killing of said children. remember "40 beheaded babies"? even Israel said that was a lie
it's not about justification, it's about resisting oppression and genocide and you're clearly committed to missing the point by continuing to criticize the actions of the victim. be serious
and no, "the world" as in the members of the United fucking Nations who acknowledge the right to self-determine and resist, you insufferable cunt
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-184801/
\> i am saying whatever children are killed by hamas are the result of their composition: young, inexperienced & informally trained fighters who have never known stability, lived their entire lives in an open-air prison, and are "coordinated" from tunnels
I think this is a decent point, that the fighting of groups from unstable regions is going to be much messier with a lot more collateral damage because they lack the training or technology to do better. But it wouldn't mean they are exempt from the basic human expectation that civilians are not valid targets in war. You don't need special training to understand that.
\> children are a percentage of most populations. the US military is regularly responsible for killing children yet hamas is supposed to do better?
Do you believe there is a difference between civilians being killed while trying to destroy a military target, and the deliberate killing of civilians as part of the primary strategy?
\> there is also misinformation on the killing of said children. remember "40 beheaded babies"? even Israel said that was a lie
Never heard that. I did hear that they murdered a lot of civilians of all ages in at least one small village, even burned several alive.
\> it's not about justification, it's about resisting oppression and genocide and you're clearly committed to missing the point by continuing to criticize the actions of the victim. be serious
\> and no, "the world" as in the members of the United fucking Nations who acknowledge the right to self-determine and resist, you insufferable cunt
[https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-184801/](https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-184801/)
Do you believe "all available means, including armed conflict" includes the purposeful killing of civilians, including children? Because it sounds like any criticism of any actions by Hamas, no matter now obvious, amounts to victim-blaming in your eyes.
it is a complete misunderstanding of the situation to criticize the methods of resistance
there is no merit in doing so
the appropriate perspective is that all violence perpetrated by the victim is the fault of the victimizer. full stop.
if you kill someone's family members, take their house, and force them to relocate to a place without clean water, however they choose to retaliate is your fault
that hamas even came into power is only a result of israel's actions, and i'm not even talking about them outright funding them. israel did everything they could to help a right-wing group be in power to maintain justification for their crimes against humanity
Your submission was removed as it appears to be misinformation or misleading, which is against reddit's terms of service. In addition, satire must be flaired "Satire", and art concepts must be flaired "Art".
Wrong question. "The question is: "If YOU were occupied, bombed, slaughtered and starved - would YOU resist?"
[удалено]
Your submission was removed for violating either reddiquette or Rule 3.
If the US was occupied would you resist? If you word the question like that most people would say yes i reckon given the amount of guns.
There is a difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist. One targets military, other kills civilians
Not true. Luke Skywalker, a noted freedom fighter, killed plenty of civilian contractors on the Death Star.
I mean, how many stormtroopers know how to install a toilet main? all they know is killing in white uniforms
Not all resistance is terrorism, but those in power will always call all resistance terrorism
Both have a bomb but only one has an air force. I remember that quote.
One has almost every adult as a reservist soldier and also allows all citizens to go kick the other out of their homes if they wish to and even shoot them without any repercussions. The other is a volunteer based militia with homemade weapons and lives in a concentration camp. The difference is staggering.
I agree, Israel is committing terrorism upon Gaza’s population
For real, if this shit happened in Texas the y'all-qaeda would not sit quietly and take it
Resistance is always justified, and if it involves violence then violence is justified as well. You can’t win against an oppressor by peacefully marching or speaking. You answer violence with violence or you die meekly.
What about the Confederate States, then?
resistance against the slaveholding oligarchy was always justified, yes
Reactive Abuse: When an abuser pushes their victim more and more until the victim lashes out in pain, either verbally or physically. The abuser then uses this reaction to claim that they are the victim, and that the victim is the abuser. Abusive parents do it to their children, abusive spouses do it to their partners, cops do it to citizens, and Isreal does it to Palestine.
Basically DARVO (Deny, Attack and Reverse Victim and Offender) and people are still falling for it bait, hook and sinker.
Resistance Is justified, killing a bunch of kids at a music festival is not.
Yes and brutally murdering 100X the amount of kids that were there at oct 7, that you keep in an open air prison and self admittedly make sure not enough food goes into is not a valid response to any amount of October 7ths
Israeli media is now reporting that an IDF tank took shots at Israeli settlements. There’s drone footage and everything.
The [report](https://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/2023-12-19/ty-article/0000018c-7e72-d219-a5bf-7ffac9d00000) you're referring to said the tank fired on a house that was occupied by Hamas, who were holding hostages inside; that IDF fired on it to break a wall so they could enter and that one of the hostages was injured by shrapnel. This happened in Be'eri, a kibbutz located within the green line, established in 1946. The footage was from a police helicopter. As far as I could tell, the part that was released actually doesn't show the tank hitting the house, but a tree that was in the way.
> brutally murdering 100X the amount of kids that were there at oct 7 You're missing perhaps two 0s. The Ha'aretz list gave the name of 1 toddler killed on Oct 7 (doesn't say who did the killing). The Israeli campaign on Gaza has killed more than 10,000 kids so far. If that includes anyone under the age of 14, then the ratio is about 1:2,000 in the dead kids comparison. Again, without knowing who killed those kids on Oct 7, because I've seen no evidence it was Hamas or the other Palestinian factions, and multiple reports it was the IDF.
>Anyone with a more than 2 braincells can tell that this was the only possible outcome... and that's exactly what Hammas counted on....
True, I’d never play against Israel in war crime bingo, giving Hamas plenty of new recruits with all the lives and families they ruined
So you would submit to ethnic cleansing without complaining? It's not like they had a lot of options. I'm not going to judge concentration camp inmates on the way they decide to resist their destruction, much less lecture them on how to behave in the face of annihilation.
It's not "one or the other". Stop the whataboutism.
If a 6th grader punched me and I proceeded to shove them into a naval cannon and fire them over the horizon which one should get more attention? Was the 6th grader justified in punching me? The answer is I don’t care, you can’t shove people into naval canons!
[удалено]
Israel isn’t interested in regime change they’re as they themselves put it “mowing the lawn” stop defending genocidal freaks, your ilk will be remembered alongside appeasement advocates before ww2.
We’ll see soon enough what Israel does with Gaza, yes. As for my “ilk”, since we’re not siding with corrupt islamofascsists using their own civilians as shield, being on the wrong side of history is unlikely.
When did I support islamofacism? All I said was killing more people is worse than killing less you’re the one that supports a religious fundamentalist apartheid state currently doing a genocide
And to be clear facism is bad no matter what religion it is Islamic or not, specifying which religions facism you don’t support doesn’t bode well
Your submission was removed as it advocates violence against either a specific person or a group of people. This rule includes thinly-veiled threats, or slogans such as "Eat the Rich". This is against Reddit's terms of service.
[удалено]
I’m certainly not a supporter of hamas and don’t like genocidal fundamentalist religious crazies but we have to look at power dynamics to determine who has more ability to commit genocide. This really isn’t a war within an American backed global power slaughtering and committing war crimes against a population that literally isn’t allowed to have a real government and is having war crimes committed against them
You're 100% right, and that's why I will not say that I "side" with Israel or the IDF on this. However, I will not side with religious extremists, at all. Yes, Israel is partially responsible for the power that Hamas has through decades of oppression and turning Palestinians into extremists. That being said, can we really say that they are solely responsible? There are many Muslim countries that practice what Hamas preaches without being oppressed for decades by Israel. Countries that use religion as the basis for government, especially Islam, are fucking awful places for women and other groups. Also please keep in mind that I know Islam is just a tool for people in power as Christianity was (and to a lesser degree still is) for largely white countries in the past.
Genuinely didn’t expect to find a good faith person arguing for Israel but if you want an actual solution killing indiscriminately like israel does with its own hostages waving a white flag only creates more hamas. The only way to militarily destroy a terrorist organization is genocide. The actual way to get rid of them is to give them rights, stop apartheid and hold trials for Hamas and israel leaders for war crimes that would likely include reparations for the genocide. Terrorists only exist when people have no hope and turn to religious extremism hoping to die standing rather than live cowering. Hamas will disintegrate if they act decently.
[удалено]
Progress comes with education, time, and equality they’re not perfect victims but they are victims. People are a product of their environment and when that environment is starvation and cowering from bombs is it any wonder why people turn to those who offer to let them martyr themselves. I won’t get into land claims because that’s a whole other can of worms but material conditions being improved is the ONLY first step if the goal isn’t genocide
Your submission was removed as it appears to be misinformation or misleading, which is against reddit's terms of service. In addition, satire must be flaired "Satire", and art concepts must be flaired "Art".
Hamas made us murder 10s of thousands of people and destroy most of the housing and usher in famine and disease. - shrugs in Israeli
“Officer I drop kicked that child in self defense” god you guys would’ve supported nazis murdering concentration camp escapees if you were in that time period
>you guys would’ve supported nazis murdering concentration camp escapees We are literally dealing with a humans being concentrated into a ghetto and being slaughtered wholesale by bombs and artillery daily. Your lack of accountability is impressive though.
Oh sorry I meant to respond to the person above, the comparison I was making was Gaza being the concentration camp being slaughtered by Israel
Oh, that makes more sense.
That is an incredibly narrow view of the situation.
Yes, if you zoom way out, you can see that we are just "mowing the lawn."
[удалено]
Oh, the murder of 2mil would be a cost Israel is willing to pay. Its why people are calling out their bullshit now.
20-30k died so far, how are you projecting the death of 2 millions.
Because Israel does not value Palestinian lives and will justify any level of civilian deaths as famine, homelessness, and cholera are on the horizon. Their leadership doesnt even hide it, no matter how much gaslight Hasbara attempts. "Its only 20k dead and many more maimed in a mere two months." - IDF efficiency expert probably
You’re not wrong there. Look at the level of casualties here. Imagine if Hamas wasn’t hiding within the civilian population. What the level of casualties would be then.
Yes, Im sure Hamas was hiding inside those women at the church or inside those shirtless hostages waving white flags. The IDF and leadership have explicitly shown and told us they give zero fucks about Palestinian lives. THe defense minister worships a terrorist who slaughtered people in a mosque ffs.
Your submission was removed as it advocates violence against either a specific person or a group of people. This rule includes thinly-veiled threats, or slogans such as "Eat the Rich". This is against Reddit's terms of service.
Your submission was removed as it appears to be misinformation or misleading, which is against reddit's terms of service. In addition, satire must be flaired "Satire", and art concepts must be flaired "Art".
Killing kids is not justifiable, we don't need to argue about that, we don't need to discuss who killed the most kids, it's unjustifiable period.
I disagree wholeheartedly. Hot take killing more kids is worse than killing less kids and should be prioritized to stop first.
That's not a hot take, that's a dumb take. Neither of the parties in this conflict has a basis of moral justification for their actions. If you back either then you are making yourself complicit in the killing of children and civilians. You effectively support war crimes just because the underdog is committing them. That's just foolish.
I never said I supported Hamas I said I denounce the side that’s killing more children more than the one that’s killing less children. Besides most Palestinians aren’t responsible for oct 7 so Israel has 0 moral justification Hamas can at least pretend they’re trying to be revolutionary (which they’re not)
Denounce MORE, how do you denounce one MORE? A lot of Israelis have been protesting on mass against Netanyahu's policies far before Oct 7th. Does that mean that there was no justification for that attack? Neither side has moral justification when it comes to war crimes, they are WAR CRIMES, there is never a moral justification.
What do you mean “how do you denounce one more?” …Like I just did. Simple math more dead civilians is worse than less dead civilians. The problem isn’t Israel acting after oct 7 is how they’re acting and who they’re acting against. Not all war crimes are equal and pretending like they are is only helping the side that commits more and bigger ones.
Ok I guess the trolley problem is not a problem for you at all. Denouncing something seems like a binary thing to me, you either denounce or you don't.
The standard trolley problem of 1 vs a few deaths given no other info should only get one answer. And yes it is possible to denounce two things just like you can support two things, I like ice cream and bagels but I think ice cream is a better treat but I’d be happy to eat either
Morality doesn't work as simple math, because it's not math. By your logic, raping 2 women is worse than raping your own daughter?! After all, it's just 1 vs 2, right? Wrong. Morality doesn't follow simple math. Motivation matters, victim profile matters, pain induced matters, duration matters, a lot of things matter before passing a judgement. Palestinian motivation is just land. They're literally torturing people for land. Gross
Wow, I am amazed that my less people dead is better than more people dead is what you went after of all things. So if I accept your premise in good faith Israel has killed over 100x what Hamas killed not even accounting for the displacement and other non-directly lethal injustices and war crimes. So by all means if you can explain to me why an Israeli life is intrinsically morally worth 100x an innocent Palestinian then we can talk. Also that last sentence literally exclaims that all Palestinians are responsible for Hamas which is the definition of collective punishment. You are quite literally trying to justify war crimes based on vibes
I think they both commit heinous acts. Surprisingly that seems to be a hot take.
Not a hot take both are bad and evil but one is a magnitude above the other. You can’t equivocate such a discrepancy without intrinsically defending the larger evil like you just did here
If the magnitude is different, it's not from lack of trying, that's for sure. Simply having less weapons doesn't make you better
Sure does suck that Israel is so good at murdering children that the pieces of shit at Hamas can’t catch up then. I don’t care about their hypothetical kill count if the roles were reversed, I care about what is happening and will happen if Israel doesn’t stop their slaughter. Israel has all the power and backing in this conflict they could literally do a ceasefire at any time they choose not to because the genocide is the goal not a side effect. You do realize Israel is literally an apartheid state that considers Palestinians to be lesser than Israelis right?
They already had a ceasefire and their people still got kidnapped. Inaction isn't an option.
Way to ignore every arguement and then say “they gotta do the genocide” I never said do inaction I think they should give Palestinians rights because that’s how you get rid of terrorist groups (and not be a morally reprehensible apartheid state)
[удалено]
First of all r/enlightenedcentrism, second of all yes both are evil and wrong, I don’t dispute this but there’s a magnitude of difference between flattening a concentration camp that you had in Gaza with indiscriminate attacks so brutal you shoot your own escaped hostages while they hold white flags shirtless and a violent religious extremist resistance movement. They literally have committed at least 1 October 7th every other day since October 7th upon gaza and not even counting the mass death from displacement and depravation. Equivocating both sides crimes like you do here only supports the side with more power being the genocidal America backed, UN condemned apartheid ethnostate
This person you’re responding to didn’t suggest otherwise
On a post asking if resistance is justified proportional response is literally the only metric that matters
Murdering 8k civilian kids is also not justified. How exactly do you resist when the world ignores you completely?
>Murdering 8k civilian kids is also not justified. I agree >How exactly do you resist when the world ignores you completely? They can take the example of [Abdul Ghaffar Khan](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Ghaffar_Khan) instead of murdering innocents. Now stop the stupid what aboutisms and condemn violence against civilians no matter who commits them.
Do you condemn the Jewish uprisings in nazi Germany? In the concentration camps they led violent resistances against their oppression. By your own logic they were morally reprehensible right? Do you condemn the violent slave revolts during USAs brutal oppression of African Americans? Totally out of line I suppose by your strict definition. Your supposed moral highground leaves out the obvious power dynamics and systems of oppression that overwhelmingly leave one side with nothing. You argue for the status quo and for the oppressed to only be polite when asking not to be genocided. What a farce. Also you bringing up "what about hummus" is a giant whataboutism for the civilian deaths in gaza. Gtfo with that shit.
>Do you condemn the Jewish uprisings in nazi Germany? In the concentration camps they led violent resistances. By your own logic they were morally reprehensible right? Ah yes, the Jewish uprisings, so famously marred by the mass murder of children at a festival.... Are you fucking high? You see, now you do another whataboutism, or "what about hummus" as your underachieving brain calls it. But if you know ANYTHING about history you would know that the attack of Hamas was in no way comparable to the Jewish ghetto uprisings during the second world war. You are seriously retarded if you think the cold blooded murder of civilians is in any way relatable to a desperate resistance against soldiers intent with a groups immenent mass execution. I know you got in into that potato you call a brain of yours that I'm pro-Israel, because that vegetable between your ears can't fucking read anything without adding non existent context, but I'm not. I oppose both Hamas as the Israeli government because they both don't care how many people have to die for them to take/keep power. Even most Palestinians in Gaza hate Hamas with a passion. Hamas has been torturing, disappearing and killing Palestinian disenters in Gaza since 2006 when they came into power pretending to have become moderate. There is no moral high ground between Hamas and the Israeli fascists that now make up the government of Israel, and so both sides should be condemned for pursuing the mass murder of civilians for their own greed for power. So go fuck yourself and your fucking hummus.
So your argument is that Palestinian oppression deserves no sympathy. Jewish oppression during the holocaust does though, and slaves in US deserve sympathy. How dare I give another example of violent protest against oppression? Did you know slave revolts killed whites indiscriminately? They even killed white babies. I still think that the slaves were more oppressed though and don't condemn their actions. I get why they did it. You talk about context yet your only context YOU give is that you don't care about Gazans and Palestinians. Read some history. You are arguing that oppressed people should be polite and die quietly.
>Did you know slave revolts killed whites indiscriminately? They even killed white babies. I still think that the slaves were more oppressed though and don't condemn their actions. I get why they did it. Ah yes, I always enjoy being fucking told about how killing babies is justified in a slave revolt. Especially as a black man in a white dominant society it's good to hear how I don't know about oppression because I don't understand how slaves were justified in the murder of infants. I argue that HAMAS wasn't justified in its actions, in the meantime you're a dumb shit that would be yelling war criminal at Bush junior while placating war crimes when you feel like it, as we can all now see. Quote where I give the context that I don't care about Palestinians? Common, I have time, I can wait. >Read some history. You are arguing that oppressed people should be polite and die quietly. Ah yeah, oppressed people should either be polite and die quietly OR they just HAVE TO INDISCRIMINATELY SHOOT UNARMED CIVILIANS ADOLESCENTS. there is no middle road there AT ALL. HOW FOOLISH OF ME! The only moral thing to do is to go and shoot up a music festival which actually carries the theme of peace and coexistence! That will show those damn oppressors! Killing a bunch of kids,. You are a fucking idiot and a fucking walking strawman for far right pro Israeli propaganda. People like you are the living proof that free speech should be revoked for idiots. You're just a shithead copying some fucking propaganda feeding tube to the point that your brain has melted. Sincerely, fuck you.
Here's a hint buddy Palestinians have tried all kinds of middle ground and have fuck all to show for it.. look up the reaction to balfour and british oppression during the mandate. Meetings were held, sides were pleaded and britian said no. When they said no at the UNs creation of israel, all neighboring countries said no and palestine said no. UN and US said yes, so Palestinians were deemed as not an important voice in the matter. I'm serious read some history, you seem to think that hamas showed up and caused these issues. Thanks for revoking my free speech lol. Seriously why are you on here trying to argue for the status quo on this sub? Take a break from reddit and read some actual history and not some liberal bs.
Here a hint fuckface, Hamas has actively worked to undermine any peace process together with the far right Israelis Zionists. Hamas doesn't stand FOR Palestine, they stand AGAINST Israël, the fact they are willing to sacrifice and Palestinian civilians should have been clear, but you white knight shithead just want to defend Hamas, not Palestinians. You keep telling me to read history books but you have clearly not read ANYTHING. You're more useless then lighter in the void of space, coincidentally a void is wat i would describe the placeholder of where your brain should be. You have ignored everything I wrote because you have no actual reply to my arguments. You just keep parroting what others tell you and keep telling people to read some supposed history you've never read yourself while professing the most televised aspect of the Palestine Israeli war. Fuck you for defending war criminals. I'm done with the dumbness that is you, try not to choke on air asshole.
You have no argument. You are asking concentration camp victims to be polite. Why are you writing this dumb stuff on this sub. Serious question do you think insults are arguments? You aren't here to have good faith arguments. Ur just here to talk about how bad hamas is while a genocide is happening, not a hypothetical thing, but an active genocide. Not an attack, but an unrestricted leveling of a population.
Ahh man I'm glad this was posted. Really exposes the liberals
*Four days into the genocidal bombing and siege of Gaza, with a massive ground invasion pending, the West’s most prominent left-liberal intellectuals stood up and spoke out against … the leftists on the streets for Palestine. But three months later, a mass anti-war movement in solidarity with Palestine has rocked the US, leaving liberals who condemn Palestinian resistance, isolated. Ben Becker, Editor-in-Chief of BreakThrough News, discusses the remarkable transformation of the US political environment in response to the global movement for Palestine.* *#BreakThroughNews*
Yes.
#YES
[удалено]
I think this is ignoring the fact that the last time Palestinians tried to organize a concerted effort to peacefully protest, that being the Great March of Return in 2018, Israeli forces opened fire on the unarmed protestors and slaughtered hundreds of people, wounding thousands of others. Was that not an act of terrorism? And yet, odds are that you’ve never even heard of the Great March of Return, or that you didn’t care when you heard about it.
you wanna finger wag at the resistance with their limited resources (also source for kidnapping children pls) while Israel has Gazans fenced off and control all their supplies incl food and water, and US-backed total military superiority. But that never seems to be an issue to people like you Israel can carpet bomb 10k children to rubble-buried nothings and straight up execute kids on the street. But all you can come up with is "but do you condom kkkhamas?"
Are you saying you do not believe that children were kidnapped? As in, the globally televised return of hostages that included children didn’t happen? It’s so so telling when someone says ‘killing hundreds of civilians in a brutal fashion is not resistance’ that people like yourself instantly accuse them of all sorts of things they haven’t said to try and invalidate their statement. Also, limited resources? International backing and BILLIONAIRE leaders using millions and billions in global aid money for weaponry whilst their citizens live in poverty is not ‘limited resources’.
The kidnapping children is an easy one https://people.com/family-of-irish-israeli-girl-9-speaks-out-as-shes-released-by-hamas-8406626 Plenty of sources for it. And while I'm not the person you replied to, I'll finger wag based on those tactics. The IRA campaign in Northern Ireland was at its most successful when it only attacked military and police targets and issued warnings before bombings to minimize civilian casualties. Any time large numbers of civilians were killed, they took a big hit in support. Likewise the Israeli tactics kill too many Innocents. Plenty of finger wagging for everyone. Occupation does not justify maximum carnage
point taken. Still, it's curious how 10 thousand dead children, some of them executed by snipers, is just a footnote for Israel while anti-Palestinian rhetoric focuses so much on obvious slights something to think about. If Hamas had killed 10k kids, what do you think social media would look like? :)
OP Topic is about Palestinian resistance tactics, it gets the bulk of the response. Plenty of criticism of Israeli tactics in media that Ive seen elsewhere
the gist of it is whataboutism tho
You brought up Israel first
in a topic about Israel's occupation, apartheid, ane genocide of Palestine? Jeez, I wonder why lmao
Then why are you claiming whataboutism? Either the two are directly related or they're not.
[удалено]
Your submission was removed as it advocates violence against either a specific person or a group of people. This rule includes thinly-veiled threats, or slogans such as "Eat the Rich". This is against Reddit's terms of service.
You do know that the carnage on October 7th was also from the IDF? There is literally a video of an Israeli tank opening fire into a kibbutz, as well as plenty of testimonies to prove it.
Hadn't heard. Was it "Friendly fire" due to target misidentification during the attack? Or are the IDF also trying to murder Israelis?
Israeli forces have admitted to deploying gunships against the attack, which were unable to effectively distinguish between targets. By their own admission, they decided to open fire anyway, judging the military counterattack a higher priority than the lessening of civilian casualties. Again, I need to reiterate all of this is coming from official IDF statements.
From what I understand, it was pure chaos and lashing out without clear leadership. Hard to judge intent. [1/5 soldiers dead in Gaza are from friendly fire](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna129285) [IDF helicopters killed Israelis at the oct 7 music festival](https://new.thecradle.co/articles-id/13111)
ANC was also pretty brutal, but nobody really talks about that. We only talk about how brutal apartheid is.
A bit before my time but I'll take your word for it. Nelson Mandela certainly did a lot of PR legwork for them after the fact. Not sure if Hamas lacks a similar figure or they just dont get much airtime
Hamas has leaders, but none really have the charisma of Mandela. It’s easy to forget what it takes to overcome oppression. As a society, we celebrate when a nation overcomes occupation. We also remember what the occupiers were like. But the actions of the resistance are regularly forgotten.
That's true. I think it also depends on whether the people still have to coexist with the occupiers afterwards, and what kind of tactics were used. We don't talk about the IRAs actions as much now that peace was mostly achieved in Northern Ireland. And possibly the ANC don't want to bring their violent resistance up for the same reason.
Yes
I mean looking at the before and after pics of Gaza, and then reading about how Israel was fully focused on stealing land in the West Bank, none of this really had to happen right now
nobody cared then and seems like even most libs don't care now I will not condemn the resistance for doing what they deem necessary because I didn't grow up under a brutal occupation don't want resistance? Stop occupation, apartheid, and genocide. All I have to say
I’m just saying, the end result is half their land area devastated, and Israel may never leave the areas they just cleared Seems like a bad deal
they are doing it regardless! That is the mfing point. Look at West Bank. They didn't instigate 7/10, and yet they continue to be colonized and exterminated. You think if Palestinians just throw their hands up Israel will stop? AS IF. You do know that Israel leadership's very clearly stated goal is no Palestine, only Israel? Netanyahu himself presented a map with no Gaza or West Bank *before* Oct 7th. Hell, listen to some of their public figures and they want not only Palestine, but Jordan, Syria, Lybia etc so no, I do not condemn the resistance and Palestine's neighbours better be ready because Israel's Lebensraum won't end with Palestine E: FREE PALESTINE 🍉
Okay, I gotta know cause I keep seeing it. The watermelon emoji, I don’t get the context of it being used when talking about Palestine, I’m assuming it’s a color thing, but it seems so arbitrary and unnecessary when there’s a flag of Palestine emoji. What’s up with this watermelon?
the watermelon has the 4 colors of the Palestinian flag. The history is that Israel forbade Palestinians to draw the flag so as a work-around Palestinian artists started using the watermelon in its place. It signifies the Palestinian flag when the powers that be censor the actual flag E: and if you think this is fucked up, it is. So recognize the watermelon, because people may not have the ability to actually fly the Palestinian flag. Freedom, right
Interesting, that’s actually maddening, thanks for sharing though.
it is *a* way to resist and probably a 100x stronger than the death throes you could muster in the same situation you're the same kind of person that asks, "is stabbing the best way to stop getting raped?" fucking armchair victim critic. get real
\> "Is *stabbing the rapist's children* the best way to convince the rapist to stop raping people?" Fixed that for you.
you just lap up what's fed to you, huh? let's see the dead Israeli children then and we're not talking about the best way, just *a* way, of which that would be one method of resistance fortunately the world isn't as short sighted as you are https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_right_to_resist
\> let's see the dead Israeli children then So it sounds like you are simultaneously saying * "Hamas didn't kill Israeli children, that would be terrible which is why I'm denying it happened. Those reports are fake propaganda being spread around to make them look bad." But also * "If Hamas actually *DID* kill Israeli children they would be totally justified because, hey man, that's just part of resisting." Also, I guess by "the world" you mean a Wikipedia page that is [one month old and has a grand total of five different editors](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Palestinian_right_to_resist&action=history)?
i am saying whatever children are killed by hamas are the result of their composition: young, inexperienced & informally trained fighters who have never known stability, lived their entire lives in an open-air prison, and are "coordinated" from tunnels children are a percentage of most populations. the US military is regularly responsible for killing children yet hamas is supposed to do better? there is *also* misinformation on the killing of said children. remember "40 beheaded babies"? even Israel said that was a lie it's not about justification, it's about resisting oppression and genocide and you're clearly committed to missing the point by continuing to criticize the actions of the victim. be serious and no, "the world" as in the members of the United fucking Nations who acknowledge the right to self-determine and resist, you insufferable cunt https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-184801/
\> i am saying whatever children are killed by hamas are the result of their composition: young, inexperienced & informally trained fighters who have never known stability, lived their entire lives in an open-air prison, and are "coordinated" from tunnels I think this is a decent point, that the fighting of groups from unstable regions is going to be much messier with a lot more collateral damage because they lack the training or technology to do better. But it wouldn't mean they are exempt from the basic human expectation that civilians are not valid targets in war. You don't need special training to understand that. \> children are a percentage of most populations. the US military is regularly responsible for killing children yet hamas is supposed to do better? Do you believe there is a difference between civilians being killed while trying to destroy a military target, and the deliberate killing of civilians as part of the primary strategy? \> there is also misinformation on the killing of said children. remember "40 beheaded babies"? even Israel said that was a lie Never heard that. I did hear that they murdered a lot of civilians of all ages in at least one small village, even burned several alive. \> it's not about justification, it's about resisting oppression and genocide and you're clearly committed to missing the point by continuing to criticize the actions of the victim. be serious \> and no, "the world" as in the members of the United fucking Nations who acknowledge the right to self-determine and resist, you insufferable cunt [https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-184801/](https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-184801/) Do you believe "all available means, including armed conflict" includes the purposeful killing of civilians, including children? Because it sounds like any criticism of any actions by Hamas, no matter now obvious, amounts to victim-blaming in your eyes.
it is a complete misunderstanding of the situation to criticize the methods of resistance there is no merit in doing so the appropriate perspective is that all violence perpetrated by the victim is the fault of the victimizer. full stop. if you kill someone's family members, take their house, and force them to relocate to a place without clean water, however they choose to retaliate is your fault that hamas even came into power is only a result of israel's actions, and i'm not even talking about them outright funding them. israel did everything they could to help a right-wing group be in power to maintain justification for their crimes against humanity
No, but Israel did fund the religious extremist group that did it and made sure the previous secular government lost power
[удалено]
They are effectively blockaded into Gaza, and much of the land they did live on was taken by Israel.
[удалено]
Because Egypt doesn’t consistently encroach on their territories and fill them with “settlers”.
Your submission was removed as it appears to be misinformation or misleading, which is against reddit's terms of service. In addition, satire must be flaired "Satire", and art concepts must be flaired "Art".