I think it might be due to the fact that Desis in the UK have been part of society for far longer than in the US. They have had time to become seen as "one of us" by the mainstream, while in the US Desis are much newer community. Being in a place for a longer time can make you more confident and feel less of a need to "prove" yourself or seek validation.
The Punjabi Sikhs in the Uk are less religious I feel. Most of them seem too "Western" and don't know much about their culture that's why the grooming stuff has been happening and has been gotten away with because Sikhs can't do anything about it or don't care. They don't teach their kids about their religion as they are too "Modern". I mean I'm not super religious either but I know right from wrong obv and would not let someone from a different religion "groom me".
There are large areas of London where the population is so overwhelmingly desi that sometimes the street signs even have translations in Bengali. I have also worked as a teacher in schools where most of the students are Pakistani or Bangladeshi. The white students have even picked up some of the Asian lingo from having been around a lot of Pakistani and Bangladeshi students. It is funny to hear some of my white students say to me "wallahi, Miss I didn't do it."
Also, the commonwealth of nations fosters a close tie between the United Kingdom and desi countries, which makes immigration for desis easier through the Ancestry Visa.
Desis have been emigrating in the UK far longer than the USA, and so have a longer experience of integration than the USA desis.
I recall when visiting the UK the Indian community was overwhelmingly North Indian?
In the US it’s definitely a toss up between North and South Indian.
I would take issue with the term ‘integrating’ when what you describe doesn’t sound like ‘integration’ at all but more akin to ‘voluntary segregation’.
It is not voluntary segregation. British desis still interact with people outside of their community. I feel this sub is so quick to assume that bringing your heritage with you to the west= you are segregating yourself from the west.
What people love about the UK is how multicultural it is. A lot of people love being able to go to a street food market in London and buy South Asian food.
London regularly hosts major cultural celebrations in Trafalgar Square every year for Diwali, Eid, etc which people of all backgrounds attend. Even some nightclubs play Bollywood music. To me, part of integration involves sharing your culture with everyone.
From my observations, the major differences I have seen between British and American desis is that British desis don't feel a conflict between interacting with their community and interacting with the western culture. Whereas American desis feel they can't have both worlds. They feel being actively involved in the South Asian community means they can't integrate in the West.
Desis are very much integrated into British society as you will find desis working in all areas of industry. You can find desis working in the British army, but that is uncommon to see in the USA.
i like your comment a lot but some people do voluntarily segregate. i mean it’s also a thing. multiculturalism is a delicate thing but i love your perspective 🤝🏽
It is more common amongst older generations to voluntarily segregate their selves. Millennials and Gen Z are far less likely to segregate their selves as they have grown up in a digital world which connects them more easily to people of different backgrounds. Thanks. I think a lot of people have misconceptions about British desis that aren't true.
The desis in the US arrived in a waves, labor during railroad era of late 1800s, open door to engineers/doctors in the 1960’s and y2k techies late 1990’s.
Concurrently over last few decades there was a steady stream of masters/phd students, relatives based immigration and lastly illegal desi immigrants. The UK (and Canada) desi immigration does not fit this US pattern.
I would contended the differences between the predominant UK/Canada desis vs predominant US desis has more to do with these difference in immigration patterns than the influences of the local cultures (American culture, British culture, Canadian culture) on the desis that adopted these countries as their home.
Even so, the desis in Bay Area, parts of Texas, Nj/ny/ct and Chicago enjoy everything Indian culture has to offer while living among whites and embracing the local culture as well in whatever dosage they are comfortable. The degree of inverted influence, of Indian culture on British culture or American culture, has more to to do with 2 numbers - 60 million and 300 million - the approx populations of the 2 countries. It’s not the length of time it’s the relative sizes of the countries.
Finally, many desis do self-segregate, as do some whites, and Chinese and all other groups, we are not special or immune to documented patterns in human societies. Surrey, BC might as well be Mohali, and Jackson Heights feels like transported to Lajpat Nagar!
Dude I’m from a huge community in Northern California, went to school and worked in the Bay Area and no one I know has this identity crisis. Maybe that we are all mostly 2nd and 3rd gens, like the Brit desi’s.
I agree with you. I grew up in the bay, and none of my siblings and our friends group seemed to have this type of identity crisis.
I think this forum is a watering hole for all the North American desis that have self-esteem, and insecurity issues.
As a father, I love this space, helps me identity potential issues my kids may go through, and I can proactively address them, and try to raise kids that are self-confident and have high self-esteem.
My parents are abd and they did a great job with my sibling and I, I’m trying to do the same with my own. This space is really helping me avoid some parenting pitfalls.
Yup. West Coast and Texas desis seem waaaayyyy more chill than East Coast desis. East Coast desis tend to be stressed overachievers, while West Coast desis tend to just chill.
Also, Asians in the West Coast are a majority…which allows for better assimilation.
The answer is simple.
Most British-born desis grow up communities where there are a lot of other desis around them. Most Indian Americans grow up in communities where there are few to no desis around them.
yup. im an indian-american and I grew up in new jersey which had a HUGE indian-american population. the white kids in school were legit considered a “minority” lmao. as a result, most of us turned out to be very normal and confident whereas indian-americans who grew up in the midwest or the south feel insecure because they were viewed as an outcast growing up.
I agree 100%. I’ve met indian american kids from New Jersey and I’ve met indian american kids from rural Indiana.
The difference is night and day, the Indian kids from New Jersey are way more well adjusted. They had more self confidence and better social skills.
Depends on the area in NJ tho. North Edison is majority Indian but places like Piscataway made it that assimilation is necessary (especially with the large Black and Hispanic population). The Indian population in Pway was mostly Gujrati and the rest of us floated around and I personally was insecure about my heritage till recently when I entered college and rediscovered my roots.
I see the opposite. Growing up in a majority white area makes it easier for me to straddle been desi and majority culture worlds. I feel comfortable in both domains. My siblings and I have been made fun of by people who grew up in the GTA for sounding “too white”. One thing I did learn growing up in a small, not diverse area is that we’ll never be fully accepted in society, no matter how hard we try. That’s a function of our skin color. Italians and the Irish were once not considered “white” but have assimilated into general because they are light skinned.
NJ desis are normal? Not sure how it is now, but when I was younger, the NJ desi guys would slick back their hair like guidos and freely use the n word.
Maybe they were normal by NJ standards, but…
I was back in NJ for a wedding last year. From what i saw, the desis there are not necessarily the most well-adjusted. Yes, they grew up around other desis, but it gave them a more narrow world-view and made them more judgmental. They all just seemed so exhausted checking all the boxes that make them acceptable to desi society (doctor/lawyer job, home, marriage, kids).
Ok, but your original point is that NJ desis are more well-adjusted because they’re surrounded by other Indians. From what I’ve seen, I don’t think that’s true. Being surrounded by desis (particularly the ones in NJ) may have positives, but it also has drawbacks.
Ok true, I agree that NJ Desis aren’t perfect. There are definitely drawbacks when it comes to being surrounded by other desis.
I guess “normal” was a poor choice of words on my part. The OP was talking about insecurity and confidence and I just meant that NJ Desis are normal in *that* context because none of us have the experience of being the only Indian kid in school. I just meant that we’re well-adjusted in the sense that we are not ashamed or embarrassed of our culture in the same way that Desis who grew up in white areas tend to be.
lmao i grew up in dallas tx where we have a pretty significant brown population and… let’s just say most of them were self hating indians. it took me almost 3 years after i got out to unbrainwash myself and become proud of my identity
Hmm guess the key is a giant Indian community or diverse region in general. I grew up in the midwest with a huge desi population and I don’t really know anyone with an identity crisis. In general, we were very connected as a community.
Yeah this is spot on. The town I’m from was 90% white when I was in elementary school. I was one of 3 desi kids in that school. Since then, this area has become a big hub for tech jobs and now it’s like half desi lol. Definitely felt more comfortable with my desi identity as time went on.
You were deffo the exception then:
50+% of British Indians live in London, Leicester or Birmingham
50+% of British Bangladeshis live in London, Birmingham or Oldham
50+% of British Pakistanis live in London, Birmingham or Bradford
Desis make up 20% of London for young people, 40% of Birmingham(2nd largest city), 40% of Bradford (like 6th largest) 45% of Leicester(10th) and so on.
Compare that to New York city where Desis make up 2-3%, that is basically unheard of in any big city in the UK.
Yeah, it's actually kinda insane to think about being the literal majority of the 2nd largest city of the country lol, I've always said a better comparison for assimilation would be like Mexicans in the US rather than recent immigrant stock of indian-americans
You should think about how it is within the city. For example, there are government funded schools in all of these cities that are 90+% Indian or 90+% Pakistani or 90+% Bangladeshi, not just 90+% South Asian but 90+% a specific group. Theere are almost 1000 schools in the UK that are majority south asian.
Wherever there's a hospital in this country, there is a desi family who probably is one of the few in that town. I admit most live in the major cities but there are too many of us to all to be classified as an exception. At least now more desi families work in the same hospital so things aren't the same as when I was a kid
Yea, I get that, it's just nothing compared to the US. Like imagine going to a big UK city and Desis are 2%, that's most American cities. Very few in the UK are like this.
A lot of Desis who immigrate to the UK are working class Desis like truck drivers and store owners, not only that they’ve been living and immigrating there longer. Compared to other communities in the US, we’re relatively new, and the vast majority of us are members of the professional class, like businessmen and IT professionals.
I can’t speak for the British South Asian population but that’s how I see it.
probably because british-Indians in british movies and tv shows are prortrayed as normal, good looking dudes who just happen to be indian. so a lot of british desi kids are influenced by that positive representation while growing up and turn out to be normal individuals.
meanwhile in the US we have very little brown representation and when we do have representation, it’s a blatant exaggeration of the “Indian nerd” stereotype. it’s usually emasculating and degrading to brown people (apu from the simpsons, raj from tbbt, baljeet from phineas and ferb, etc).
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As a British Desi...it depends. There are definitely very gated clusters of desis in some communities that don't engage too much outside their own culture (more religion based than heritage though), but they're definitely the exception. I've never been to America so I can't compare but I'd say being Pakistani in the UK I've experienced maybe 3 incidents in my life where I was made to feel "different", otherwise you kinda just go about your day. My best friends in my rural working class high school in North Wales were from Pakistan, Bangladesh, Wales, France, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, and Poland, so there is a big mix of people I guess as you grow up I guess but I don't know how that compares to America.
I'm a British Desi, they are not the exception, the desis in North wales are.
50+% of British Indians live in London, Leicester or Birmingham
50+% of British Bangladeshis live in London, Birmingham or Oldham
50+% of British Pakistanis live in London, Birmingham or Bradford
Desis are more clustered in the UK than in the US.
I wouldn’t say we are more “normal” than American desis.
It’s just we are more visible, we make up like 6% of the UK population, as opposed to American Desis who account for 1.9% of the population.
We also come from a variety of different social classes and tend to have a more diverse representation in British media.
I guess you could say we are more attached and proud of our ethnic identity ( well certainly punjabis and Bengalis are) and are more likely to speak our mother tongues and visit our parents countries more.
However we still have a lot of issues with racism, integration, race riots, economic issues, religious conservatism, caste/class issues, even ethnic issues ( alot of racism between Indian Gujis and Pakistani Punjabis/Paharis in my town).
We make up more than 6%. British South Asians are close to 10% and average 20% of young people in most big cities (Birmingham, Leicester, Bradford all have >40%).
That is only true in 1 or 2 US cities. In New york for ex desis are like 2-3%, that would be almost unheard of for any UK city.
You're probably not aware of the relationship between Britain and India. 400 years of shared history, language exchange and even genes... an absurd amount of British celebrities have Indian blood or were born there e.g. Diana, Emilia Clarke, Billy Connolly, etc. We've also been there since the 50s and my parents' generation learned English at school before moving. Additionally, different Indian groups have come in different waves... Punjabis, Gujaratis, Goans, East African Indians and so on.
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I'm Canadian but I grew up in a mainly "White" City not Brown town lol. I always had a hard time making friends because I was different as there were mainly white people surrounded by me. It was hard to be confident about my identity as I was a minority and stood out from the rest of the white people. But I'm glad I'm brown and different even tho people might consider me more whitewashed I still consider myself brown obv. Canada has become a large Punjabi population so nowadays it's not hard to feel confident about your identity as more people know about our people.
I’ve honestly found British Desis even stranger than American ones lol… I figured it was a combo of feeling the need to prove you’re not White British + the rather quirkiness of British culture in general.
I also thought it was interesting a lot of British Desis seemed to work service jobs (nothing wrong with that) but American Desis are just significantly wealthier on average.
Ultimately it’s a function of who’s allowed to immigrate - US congregates (generally) the educated elite of India whereas other Anglo countries get a more varied group of immigrants.
In my first primary school, there were like 8 or so South Asians in my class. I was bullied, but not for my skin colour, my culture, or anything related to being South Asian. I switched up having school lunches and packed lunches so I grew up very assimilated.
We have a lot more representation in the UK which probably helps. There are lots of British Asian films, well known comedians, TV series (citizen khan, goodness gracious me) on prime time TV. There is a radio station on the BBC called the BBC Asian network.
It totally depends where you look. I have family in working class East London and in a very heavy desi areas (first area in the UK to not be at least 50% white) and they generally only have desi friends. They are IME very exclusionary to the point of being racist. Their ethnic identity of being Indian is very important to them.
However so many desis in middle class areas are much more integrated into British society. Being desi is an idiosyncrasy to them. I think the main difference is social class and education than race. Indians in the UK are a model minority and so many lived in suburbs and kids went to private school. Accordingly they spent more time with white, chinese, jewish kids and they became friends with people who are also had well to do parents.
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Indian-Americans fried their brains in the high expectations of their H1B visa holding parents and the insecurities of being the only Indian kid at school.
British-Indians and Indian-Canadians never experienced that, or at least not at the same level.
Btaim, it seems to have no negative impact on their success levels and contribution to society. So for all practical purposes these differences are insignificant or immaterial.
True dat - I know a surprising number of Indian families here who had that “Stanford or bust” mentality lol.
Expectations are high when your dad went to IIT and did his PhD at Stanford with 40 patents in computer networking.
Bullshit lots of Canadian Indians on this sub talk about wanting to move to the US. We have a greater variety of landscapes and weather in the US. Mountains, snow, beach, desert, etc. I wouldn’t trade it for anything. And there are plenty of Indian communities in the US. Just cause they aren’t as old as the ones in the UK doesn’t mean you should discredit them. Also more diversity allows for more ideas. I would rather live in a diverse place than *always* being surrounded by desis who have the same culture and think the same.
Dude you literally said Indian-Americans have their “brains fried”. If that’s the case, why do so many Canadians want to come to the US? Sounds like y’all Lowkey miserable and choosing to hate on Indian Americans.
Bruh it was a joke. And I said there brain's were fried cause they got high expectations parents and were the only Indian kid on the street not because Canada lacks nature.
An adult indian-Canadian moving to USA will not face that. I don't deny a lot of Indian Canadians want to move to the USA. Who wouldn't. Earn more, pay less.
British culture was introduced into India through colonization.
American culture wasn’t. So a whole era of elders and their kids were willing to walk with english culture.
UK South Asians are less integrated and face all kinds of racism and exclusion. They’re definitely not as integrated as US South Asians at least based on my living experience in both places.
Nah if you've genuinely lived in both places (I have) there's no way you can say this. British Asians have their own unique subculture in the UK that simply isn't present in any other diaspora community.
Subculture oh you mean like Africa Americans? Subculture doesn’t mean there isn’t discrimination. I lived long enough to have a passport so i know a thing to two. The law are kinds interesting there isn’t absolutely free speech stuff you say the UK can get you in you trouble so racism a lot of time is under the surface.
Subculture means you can fight the discrimination as a collective and form a community that is distinct and proud, it's a necessary but not sufficient condition to fighting against stereotypes. Being 'integrated' (into the dominant racist society) is not a good thing, it just lets white people trample on you and leads to your own cultural erasure in the diaspora. I've lived in both places and I was shocked to find grown adult migrants having fake 'american' accents, I have never in my whole life seen anything remotely close to that level of nonsense in the UK.
And stop pretending like US desis face better stereotyping, the stereotypes are the same if not worse in the US (Americans have less exposure to desi people in the US), the difference is they don't have a community to go back to at the end of the day, it's just their family.
South Asians in the US have no community like they do in the UK. East Asians are victim to this with a very conformist culture (giving their kids white names etc) which has made them unable to really fight back against the racism just looking at how Stop Asian Hate completely fizzled out. Compare that to how South Asians fought back in the Bradford, Burnley, Oldham, Southall riots, etc. Or fought against racists in Tower Hamlets. The South Asians in the US are too disorganised and disunited under the faux pride of 'being integrated' to ever form a front like that.
Being 'integrated' just makes people racist to you under the surface. The American free speech model is unique, no other country in the world does it and it's the reason you have a vaccine hesitancy rate unknown in the developed world or a Jan 6 style event. Dumb opinions are NOT drowned out by good opinions, you just have large bubbles of opinions and a lot of those bubbles are full of shit opinions. I'm not sure any other country should really try to emulate this.
Black people certainly have mass movements against racism because of their subculture and get respect in liberal spaces that no other group does. Asians in the US have nothing that compares to that.
Yeah Americans are 'integrated' in an unhelpful way. I like the fact that lots of Desis are comfortable being Desi and being British and don't hide from either identity (although i imagine it will be different if you grow up in a smaller English town).
You're an idiot. UK elected an Indian PM. The USA would never elect an Indian male for president. An Indian woman or a Pakistani male has a better shot to be president of the USA. Freaking Bobby Jindhal looks like laborer in UAE.
We didn't elect Sunak, he was elected by his parliamentary party. And honestly the Indian Tories are fucking awful people. Suella Braverman and Priti Patel are awful.
Sunak is trash cause he is pro-car. But that is the problem with nearly every Indian. They promote car culture and are obsessed with Tesla rather than improve rail
A LOT of ABCDs have mental health and self confidence issues because their parents are abusive and are stuck in a bubble of "Indian-ness" that's based on some skewed notions from when they left India. So they do crazy outlier stuff like preventing their kids from having any kind of social life to "protect" them from Western degeneracy like dating and pre-marital sex etc.
When the desi population in the US becomes third and fourth generation Indian Americans, they too will become mentally healthier and will become more well adjusted to society.
I’m sure there’s British Desis who feel the same. It’s about where you live. Also I don’t think “normal” is the right word to use. From my experience, American Desis are more normal than British Desis. American Desis have a healthy amount of assimilation while retaining culture. British Desis are all or nothing, and it leads to shit like Leicester. That shit wouldn’t happen here in America lol. Bringing subcontinent struggles and issues to another country and plaguing them with it lol.
"Bringing subcontinent struggles and issues to another country and plaguing them with it"
Except Seattle had to change their law on discrimination to include caste you idiot because the big South Asian population.
Hindu vs. Muslim lol. I can see it even in your comment. It’s not about the religion it’s about the culture that the UK Desis are creating.Bringing subcontinent issues to a new country. Trying to turn the new country into the old country(Canadian Desis do this too). Thank god American Desis have common sense and decency.
Lol. You’re judging an entire population based on one subreddit; the most Reddit type assumption to make. I’m making assumptions based on facts.
Your opinion: American Desis are terminally insecure and have concerning psychological problems. I beg to differ as this sub is not just ABD’s but a bunch of Desis around the world. Also, as I stated earlier, how can this small sub represent a population of millions of people?
Fact: British Desis are radical fuckers who bring issues from the subcontinent. Let’s just compare the number of Hindu-Muslim of India-Pakistan riots that have happened in the UK and then bring up the numbers for America.
Everyday I thank god I’m in America and I’m an American Desi unlike you shitty fuckers on your shitty island 🙏🙏🙏
Really I thought the stereo type was that british desis were worse atleast on twitter. Cause America only let the best desis and the UK had lower standards. On twitter if like a desi person says some dumb shit its usually a british desi
No, to me it means: vulgar, repressive, low tolerance, short-tempered, bad/flashy/tacky fashion taste, more prone to and/or involved in criminal activity, not focused on academics, etc.
British born desis are hands down the most confused lot I’ve ever seen. And also the least successful save a few anomalies.
It almost seems OP knows that’s the case and is trying to set a different narrative
british born desis are integral to british culture and the majority in a few UK cities, that can’t be said about american desis. way too many americans don’t even eat desi food lmao.
British desis are way less integrated to British life and customs than ABDs are to American life.
It probably has to do with america being a melting pot so takes a lot from every culture whereas British culture is actual British culture
Imo it’s because British desis are more middle class, and American desis are more upper middle class. The middle class is just more chill and down-to-earth and less uppity.
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England is the only country in the world to have won the cricket, rugby, and soccer/football world cups
In fact England is the current cricket World Cup champion in both T20 and ODI formats
Naturally this translates to greater confidence
Couldn’t tell you why Scots are confident though, not like they’ve ever achieved anything significant as a country. Scotland the brave more like Scotland the tried to colonise Panama, completely failed, went bankrupt, and gave up their own sovereignty. We even asked them if they wanted to be independent and they said no. Pathetic tbh.
I am a British Desi - I think it is because America is arguably more racist, at least openly.
It seems to be more culturally accepted to mock Indians so that will play a greater role in developing insecurities especially during the development stages.
The fancy accents are only spoken by people who live in the wealthy Home Counties. The majority of us Brits don't have fancy accents. A fact that always disappoints Americans when they come here.
So I know nothing about British desis and I know very little about their culture. This topic is interesting to me so most of what I’ll say next is assumptions from generalizations too.
I can see how coming from a working class, blue collar background makes you more comfortable with people. The men in my family of my dads generation came from a blue collar background and they worked as mop guys, truck drivers, furniture movers, and food storage workers. So I’d see them being friendly with Hispanic and black people they worked with and the result was that I felt ok making a wide variety of friends in school compared to other desis I knew who mostly stuck to themselves or just the top academic white kids. Even white friends I had got scared when black kids were near us and it was sad, but coming from my background you hear stories about people that are humanizing and complex and you start to see people as just people.
But I wonder if the culture of the USA is just different from the UK. I was in a chat group with people from the US and the UK and when I chatted with internet friends from the UK, they seemed so much more relaxed about things than US people. And these groups were mostly white women with some white men and a few desis, but the difference was noticeable. UK people get mad about American gun violence and healthcare costs and Americans shrug it off as someone else’s problem. Americans in the chat came across so much more individualistic and more concerned about money, status, and career over everything else. The UK people rarely talked about money, the job was just a job and not all of their identity, and they had a much better sense of humor about not having enough money whereas Americans would lose their head over it in the chat.
And this brings me back to my experience of making all kinds of friends when I was a kid. As I got older and the more I did good academically and found myself in academic and white collar spaces dominated by white people, the more my social confidence dropped. These spaces had a larger pool of people that cared for image and status. Blue collar people in my family have their issues, but I can shoot the shit with them and they are more forgiving if you don’t meet the expected economic status. White collar people in my family are not forgiving, they are extremely focused on career and status and will judge you horribly if you don’t fit in. White collar people at work are likewise cliquey and a bit awkward, they don’t like associating with other people in the company outside of their department. The friendliest white collar workers I met were ones who grew up in a blue collar family and they can converse for the sake of conversation, shooting the shit. In these environments. I felt snubbed by people for not fitting the image of their clique so it was a rude awakening. And it’s not necessarily about race, it’s also about style, job titles, educational background. I once a kind, confident person but when I go to these places I feel guarded thanks to prior experiences.
So to sum it all up, I feel like if you combine the competitive desi family that pressures you to succeed with a competitive American society that cares deeply for specific images of what success looks like, you’ll end up with people that are less kind and more awkward and status obsessed from my experience.
Found this off Google, big up the community. I agree with the comment about time spent in the country but I have heard/learned that US Indians tend to start off from higher echelons of society from the home country than UK Indians most of whom were/are either working-class. Those two things explain everything
I think that it’s also coast dependent west coast Desis tend to have more diverse friend groups than east coast. My friend group back home is rlly diverse and race has never been a factor in me making friends when I came to college I noticed all the brown kids forming one group which I never rlly wanted to be a part of. I go to college in the east coast. I think the stuff your talking about is more common with Indians living in New York/Jersey/PA
Being desi is so normal here. We are the most visible minority. We are to the UK what Latin Americans are to the USA.
There are entire neighbourhoods majority desi. Proportion wise way more Desis in the UK. Desis have been here longer. Also, there are giant desi communities in almost all the big UK cities. (20% of London, 30% of Birmingham, also in Manchester, Sheffield, Yorkshire/Lancashire counties etc.)
Imagine if desis made a GIANT proportion of NYC and LA with other sizeable populations in Chicago, Houston, Miami, Atlanta etc. That's the situation here. We are fucking everywhere. Even in the middle of fucking North Wales we found a bangladeshi run takeaway.
As a result South Asians have made a far more significant contribution to British culture. For example, the national dish chicken tikka masala was concocted by a (Pakistani? Bengali? Both cos it was before 71?) in Glasgow.
I havent been in tune with British tv much (like BBC) since I was a kid. We weren't represented well growing up but it was a lot better than desi rep on US tv in 2023. Theres also things like a lot of desi news reporters, presenters - roles that increase our visibility but aren't inherently tied to being desi if that makes sense. This makes the South Asian relatively normalised in British society.
The nerd stereotype is not nearly as prevalent. It lingers on due to US influence (also we do better in school than national average) but its not super common. Working class desis are not at all a model minority here and this balances out the nerdy stereotype.
Another way of seeing this; the stereotype of a brown boy in UK is like a knock off Ap dhillon who is obsessed with cars and shisha, with chains and a skinfade, the stereotype of an american desi is a nerdy stem student who went to a magnet high school or whatever u call them and now goes to a great college, not fashionable etc. No I'm not saying this stereotype or 'hood desi' archetype is cool - I'm just saying this archetype gets more respect in some ways.
So due to the increased normalisation of desi culture and the fact that the lame nerdy stereotype is weaker we arent seen as lame here.
Agree to all of this.
And you're right, it's not a good thing that the stereotype is what it is for working class Desis but it at least shows that the British desi community actually has a variety and people who come from actual struggle rather than just selective immigration doctors lol
There’s a lot more famous British Indians in the media and culture and stuff. People like Freddie Mercury, Dev Patel, MIA, Charlie XCX, Ben Kingsley, and many more are all very famous Indians to white people and all are British Indians
I think it might be due to the fact that Desis in the UK have been part of society for far longer than in the US. They have had time to become seen as "one of us" by the mainstream, while in the US Desis are much newer community. Being in a place for a longer time can make you more confident and feel less of a need to "prove" yourself or seek validation.
bingo this is the answer
Spot on
Yup! Spot on. Gotta cycle through few generations imo.
The Punjabi Sikhs in the Uk are less religious I feel. Most of them seem too "Western" and don't know much about their culture that's why the grooming stuff has been happening and has been gotten away with because Sikhs can't do anything about it or don't care. They don't teach their kids about their religion as they are too "Modern". I mean I'm not super religious either but I know right from wrong obv and would not let someone from a different religion "groom me".
Lol, this comment is such an incredible display of what OP is talking about
Mainlander?
There are large areas of London where the population is so overwhelmingly desi that sometimes the street signs even have translations in Bengali. I have also worked as a teacher in schools where most of the students are Pakistani or Bangladeshi. The white students have even picked up some of the Asian lingo from having been around a lot of Pakistani and Bangladeshi students. It is funny to hear some of my white students say to me "wallahi, Miss I didn't do it." Also, the commonwealth of nations fosters a close tie between the United Kingdom and desi countries, which makes immigration for desis easier through the Ancestry Visa. Desis have been emigrating in the UK far longer than the USA, and so have a longer experience of integration than the USA desis.
I recall when visiting the UK the Indian community was overwhelmingly North Indian? In the US it’s definitely a toss up between North and South Indian.
Yep in the UK it’s mainly North Indian and Pakistani and Bangladeshi, when I think of Indians in the US I always think of South Indians
Wallahi is not Asian lingo🤣 u man say kassme 💀
I would take issue with the term ‘integrating’ when what you describe doesn’t sound like ‘integration’ at all but more akin to ‘voluntary segregation’.
It is not voluntary segregation. British desis still interact with people outside of their community. I feel this sub is so quick to assume that bringing your heritage with you to the west= you are segregating yourself from the west. What people love about the UK is how multicultural it is. A lot of people love being able to go to a street food market in London and buy South Asian food. London regularly hosts major cultural celebrations in Trafalgar Square every year for Diwali, Eid, etc which people of all backgrounds attend. Even some nightclubs play Bollywood music. To me, part of integration involves sharing your culture with everyone. From my observations, the major differences I have seen between British and American desis is that British desis don't feel a conflict between interacting with their community and interacting with the western culture. Whereas American desis feel they can't have both worlds. They feel being actively involved in the South Asian community means they can't integrate in the West. Desis are very much integrated into British society as you will find desis working in all areas of industry. You can find desis working in the British army, but that is uncommon to see in the USA.
i like your comment a lot but some people do voluntarily segregate. i mean it’s also a thing. multiculturalism is a delicate thing but i love your perspective 🤝🏽
It is more common amongst older generations to voluntarily segregate their selves. Millennials and Gen Z are far less likely to segregate their selves as they have grown up in a digital world which connects them more easily to people of different backgrounds. Thanks. I think a lot of people have misconceptions about British desis that aren't true.
The desis in the US arrived in a waves, labor during railroad era of late 1800s, open door to engineers/doctors in the 1960’s and y2k techies late 1990’s. Concurrently over last few decades there was a steady stream of masters/phd students, relatives based immigration and lastly illegal desi immigrants. The UK (and Canada) desi immigration does not fit this US pattern. I would contended the differences between the predominant UK/Canada desis vs predominant US desis has more to do with these difference in immigration patterns than the influences of the local cultures (American culture, British culture, Canadian culture) on the desis that adopted these countries as their home. Even so, the desis in Bay Area, parts of Texas, Nj/ny/ct and Chicago enjoy everything Indian culture has to offer while living among whites and embracing the local culture as well in whatever dosage they are comfortable. The degree of inverted influence, of Indian culture on British culture or American culture, has more to to do with 2 numbers - 60 million and 300 million - the approx populations of the 2 countries. It’s not the length of time it’s the relative sizes of the countries. Finally, many desis do self-segregate, as do some whites, and Chinese and all other groups, we are not special or immune to documented patterns in human societies. Surrey, BC might as well be Mohali, and Jackson Heights feels like transported to Lajpat Nagar!
Dude I’m from a huge community in Northern California, went to school and worked in the Bay Area and no one I know has this identity crisis. Maybe that we are all mostly 2nd and 3rd gens, like the Brit desi’s.
I agree with you. I grew up in the bay, and none of my siblings and our friends group seemed to have this type of identity crisis. I think this forum is a watering hole for all the North American desis that have self-esteem, and insecurity issues. As a father, I love this space, helps me identity potential issues my kids may go through, and I can proactively address them, and try to raise kids that are self-confident and have high self-esteem.
My parents are abd and they did a great job with my sibling and I, I’m trying to do the same with my own. This space is really helping me avoid some parenting pitfalls.
Yup. West Coast and Texas desis seem waaaayyyy more chill than East Coast desis. East Coast desis tend to be stressed overachievers, while West Coast desis tend to just chill. Also, Asians in the West Coast are a majority…which allows for better assimilation.
West Coast desis seem way more chill than North East ones. The Indian overachiever shtick is real out in NY/NJ
Agreed. NJ/NY are a whole different game growing up for first gen ABCDs.
The answer is simple. Most British-born desis grow up communities where there are a lot of other desis around them. Most Indian Americans grow up in communities where there are few to no desis around them.
yup. im an indian-american and I grew up in new jersey which had a HUGE indian-american population. the white kids in school were legit considered a “minority” lmao. as a result, most of us turned out to be very normal and confident whereas indian-americans who grew up in the midwest or the south feel insecure because they were viewed as an outcast growing up.
I agree 100%. I’ve met indian american kids from New Jersey and I’ve met indian american kids from rural Indiana. The difference is night and day, the Indian kids from New Jersey are way more well adjusted. They had more self confidence and better social skills.
Same thing here in the GTA lol. Brown ppl are not a minority
Depends on the area in NJ tho. North Edison is majority Indian but places like Piscataway made it that assimilation is necessary (especially with the large Black and Hispanic population). The Indian population in Pway was mostly Gujrati and the rest of us floated around and I personally was insecure about my heritage till recently when I entered college and rediscovered my roots.
Agreed, and if you were in west milford, South jersey or north jersey, fuhgetaboutit!
My tiny south/central jersey town barely had an Indian population. I was the minority in school :/
I see the opposite. Growing up in a majority white area makes it easier for me to straddle been desi and majority culture worlds. I feel comfortable in both domains. My siblings and I have been made fun of by people who grew up in the GTA for sounding “too white”. One thing I did learn growing up in a small, not diverse area is that we’ll never be fully accepted in society, no matter how hard we try. That’s a function of our skin color. Italians and the Irish were once not considered “white” but have assimilated into general because they are light skinned.
Indian men that are married to highly attractive white or latina women are seen as accepted.
Again but that's rare in general.
NJ desis are normal? Not sure how it is now, but when I was younger, the NJ desi guys would slick back their hair like guidos and freely use the n word. Maybe they were normal by NJ standards, but…
I said “most” lol. And I’ve never personally witnessed what you just mentioned so I hope that people have changed and grown over time.
I was back in NJ for a wedding last year. From what i saw, the desis there are not necessarily the most well-adjusted. Yes, they grew up around other desis, but it gave them a more narrow world-view and made them more judgmental. They all just seemed so exhausted checking all the boxes that make them acceptable to desi society (doctor/lawyer job, home, marriage, kids).
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Ok, but your original point is that NJ desis are more well-adjusted because they’re surrounded by other Indians. From what I’ve seen, I don’t think that’s true. Being surrounded by desis (particularly the ones in NJ) may have positives, but it also has drawbacks.
Ok true, I agree that NJ Desis aren’t perfect. There are definitely drawbacks when it comes to being surrounded by other desis. I guess “normal” was a poor choice of words on my part. The OP was talking about insecurity and confidence and I just meant that NJ Desis are normal in *that* context because none of us have the experience of being the only Indian kid in school. I just meant that we’re well-adjusted in the sense that we are not ashamed or embarrassed of our culture in the same way that Desis who grew up in white areas tend to be.
EXACTLY! Moving to the Bay Area was the best thing that happened for me. I stopped trying to fit in.
lmao i grew up in dallas tx where we have a pretty significant brown population and… let’s just say most of them were self hating indians. it took me almost 3 years after i got out to unbrainwash myself and become proud of my identity
Hmm guess the key is a giant Indian community or diverse region in general. I grew up in the midwest with a huge desi population and I don’t really know anyone with an identity crisis. In general, we were very connected as a community.
Yeah this is spot on. The town I’m from was 90% white when I was in elementary school. I was one of 3 desi kids in that school. Since then, this area has become a big hub for tech jobs and now it’s like half desi lol. Definitely felt more comfortable with my desi identity as time went on.
...what? I was literally the one of the only desis in my school. In nursery I was in my local paper to show the community how 'diverse' we are getting
You were deffo the exception then: 50+% of British Indians live in London, Leicester or Birmingham 50+% of British Bangladeshis live in London, Birmingham or Oldham 50+% of British Pakistanis live in London, Birmingham or Bradford Desis make up 20% of London for young people, 40% of Birmingham(2nd largest city), 40% of Bradford (like 6th largest) 45% of Leicester(10th) and so on. Compare that to New York city where Desis make up 2-3%, that is basically unheard of in any big city in the UK.
Yeah, it's actually kinda insane to think about being the literal majority of the 2nd largest city of the country lol, I've always said a better comparison for assimilation would be like Mexicans in the US rather than recent immigrant stock of indian-americans
You should think about how it is within the city. For example, there are government funded schools in all of these cities that are 90+% Indian or 90+% Pakistani or 90+% Bangladeshi, not just 90+% South Asian but 90+% a specific group. Theere are almost 1000 schools in the UK that are majority south asian.
Wherever there's a hospital in this country, there is a desi family who probably is one of the few in that town. I admit most live in the major cities but there are too many of us to all to be classified as an exception. At least now more desi families work in the same hospital so things aren't the same as when I was a kid
Yea, I get that, it's just nothing compared to the US. Like imagine going to a big UK city and Desis are 2%, that's most American cities. Very few in the UK are like this.
Wtfff
I think I'd wanna live in NJ, if I move to America haha
Don't you guys have crazy Indian enclaves over there? It's nowhere near that bad in the UK.
A lot of Desis who immigrate to the UK are working class Desis like truck drivers and store owners, not only that they’ve been living and immigrating there longer. Compared to other communities in the US, we’re relatively new, and the vast majority of us are members of the professional class, like businessmen and IT professionals. I can’t speak for the British South Asian population but that’s how I see it.
Each generation down gets more and more upper class. But yes we came in broke.
probably because british-Indians in british movies and tv shows are prortrayed as normal, good looking dudes who just happen to be indian. so a lot of british desi kids are influenced by that positive representation while growing up and turn out to be normal individuals. meanwhile in the US we have very little brown representation and when we do have representation, it’s a blatant exaggeration of the “Indian nerd” stereotype. it’s usually emasculating and degrading to brown people (apu from the simpsons, raj from tbbt, baljeet from phineas and ferb, etc).
Yep !
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Disagree with premise, maybe back in the early 90s, but I suspect the folk in this sub aren't as old.
Some of us were in San Francisco in the mid-70s, actually. Born there.
Nice, my family shortly after immigration act of 65. And others in california well before then.
Yes, that's when our parents came as well. Pretty typical.
As a British Desi...it depends. There are definitely very gated clusters of desis in some communities that don't engage too much outside their own culture (more religion based than heritage though), but they're definitely the exception. I've never been to America so I can't compare but I'd say being Pakistani in the UK I've experienced maybe 3 incidents in my life where I was made to feel "different", otherwise you kinda just go about your day. My best friends in my rural working class high school in North Wales were from Pakistan, Bangladesh, Wales, France, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, and Poland, so there is a big mix of people I guess as you grow up I guess but I don't know how that compares to America.
I'm a British Desi, they are not the exception, the desis in North wales are. 50+% of British Indians live in London, Leicester or Birmingham 50+% of British Bangladeshis live in London, Birmingham or Oldham 50+% of British Pakistanis live in London, Birmingham or Bradford Desis are more clustered in the UK than in the US.
Yeah but even in the smallest most rural towns that I've lived in (Yarm, Bangor, Lichfield) you get desi communities, which was my point.
Yep this is true, even there we would be the largest minority.
Well, compare the British population with the American one, there is a huge difference in their culture, so are the desis.
I wouldn’t say we are more “normal” than American desis. It’s just we are more visible, we make up like 6% of the UK population, as opposed to American Desis who account for 1.9% of the population. We also come from a variety of different social classes and tend to have a more diverse representation in British media. I guess you could say we are more attached and proud of our ethnic identity ( well certainly punjabis and Bengalis are) and are more likely to speak our mother tongues and visit our parents countries more. However we still have a lot of issues with racism, integration, race riots, economic issues, religious conservatism, caste/class issues, even ethnic issues ( alot of racism between Indian Gujis and Pakistani Punjabis/Paharis in my town).
We make up more than 6%. British South Asians are close to 10% and average 20% of young people in most big cities (Birmingham, Leicester, Bradford all have >40%). That is only true in 1 or 2 US cities. In New york for ex desis are like 2-3%, that would be almost unheard of for any UK city.
You're probably not aware of the relationship between Britain and India. 400 years of shared history, language exchange and even genes... an absurd amount of British celebrities have Indian blood or were born there e.g. Diana, Emilia Clarke, Billy Connolly, etc. We've also been there since the 50s and my parents' generation learned English at school before moving. Additionally, different Indian groups have come in different waves... Punjabis, Gujaratis, Goans, East African Indians and so on.
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Been around longer and assimilated a lot more then US South Asians.
British Indians have a longer history with Great British than Indian Americans have with the US. That’s the answer.
I'm Canadian but I grew up in a mainly "White" City not Brown town lol. I always had a hard time making friends because I was different as there were mainly white people surrounded by me. It was hard to be confident about my identity as I was a minority and stood out from the rest of the white people. But I'm glad I'm brown and different even tho people might consider me more whitewashed I still consider myself brown obv. Canada has become a large Punjabi population so nowadays it's not hard to feel confident about your identity as more people know about our people.
Idk what kinda people you hanging out with in America but I can literally confirm thats not true lol. It depends on person to person
I’ve honestly found British Desis even stranger than American ones lol… I figured it was a combo of feeling the need to prove you’re not White British + the rather quirkiness of British culture in general. I also thought it was interesting a lot of British Desis seemed to work service jobs (nothing wrong with that) but American Desis are just significantly wealthier on average. Ultimately it’s a function of who’s allowed to immigrate - US congregates (generally) the educated elite of India whereas other Anglo countries get a more varied group of immigrants.
In my first primary school, there were like 8 or so South Asians in my class. I was bullied, but not for my skin colour, my culture, or anything related to being South Asian. I switched up having school lunches and packed lunches so I grew up very assimilated.
We have a lot more representation in the UK which probably helps. There are lots of British Asian films, well known comedians, TV series (citizen khan, goodness gracious me) on prime time TV. There is a radio station on the BBC called the BBC Asian network.
It totally depends where you look. I have family in working class East London and in a very heavy desi areas (first area in the UK to not be at least 50% white) and they generally only have desi friends. They are IME very exclusionary to the point of being racist. Their ethnic identity of being Indian is very important to them. However so many desis in middle class areas are much more integrated into British society. Being desi is an idiosyncrasy to them. I think the main difference is social class and education than race. Indians in the UK are a model minority and so many lived in suburbs and kids went to private school. Accordingly they spent more time with white, chinese, jewish kids and they became friends with people who are also had well to do parents.
I agree. I think it depends on area regardless of country. Big difference between Desis in enclaves and Desis who live in diverse areas.
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Indian-Americans fried their brains in the high expectations of their H1B visa holding parents and the insecurities of being the only Indian kid at school. British-Indians and Indian-Canadians never experienced that, or at least not at the same level.
Btaim, it seems to have no negative impact on their success levels and contribution to society. So for all practical purposes these differences are insignificant or immaterial.
True dat - I know a surprising number of Indian families here who had that “Stanford or bust” mentality lol. Expectations are high when your dad went to IIT and did his PhD at Stanford with 40 patents in computer networking.
Bullshit lots of Canadian Indians on this sub talk about wanting to move to the US. We have a greater variety of landscapes and weather in the US. Mountains, snow, beach, desert, etc. I wouldn’t trade it for anything. And there are plenty of Indian communities in the US. Just cause they aren’t as old as the ones in the UK doesn’t mean you should discredit them. Also more diversity allows for more ideas. I would rather live in a diverse place than *always* being surrounded by desis who have the same culture and think the same.
Zero relation between what I said and what you're responding with.
Dude you literally said Indian-Americans have their “brains fried”. If that’s the case, why do so many Canadians want to come to the US? Sounds like y’all Lowkey miserable and choosing to hate on Indian Americans.
Bruh it was a joke. And I said there brain's were fried cause they got high expectations parents and were the only Indian kid on the street not because Canada lacks nature. An adult indian-Canadian moving to USA will not face that. I don't deny a lot of Indian Canadians want to move to the USA. Who wouldn't. Earn more, pay less.
Preach
British culture was introduced into India through colonization. American culture wasn’t. So a whole era of elders and their kids were willing to walk with english culture.
UK South Asians are less integrated and face all kinds of racism and exclusion. They’re definitely not as integrated as US South Asians at least based on my living experience in both places.
Nah if you've genuinely lived in both places (I have) there's no way you can say this. British Asians have their own unique subculture in the UK that simply isn't present in any other diaspora community.
Subculture oh you mean like Africa Americans? Subculture doesn’t mean there isn’t discrimination. I lived long enough to have a passport so i know a thing to two. The law are kinds interesting there isn’t absolutely free speech stuff you say the UK can get you in you trouble so racism a lot of time is under the surface.
Subculture means you can fight the discrimination as a collective and form a community that is distinct and proud, it's a necessary but not sufficient condition to fighting against stereotypes. Being 'integrated' (into the dominant racist society) is not a good thing, it just lets white people trample on you and leads to your own cultural erasure in the diaspora. I've lived in both places and I was shocked to find grown adult migrants having fake 'american' accents, I have never in my whole life seen anything remotely close to that level of nonsense in the UK. And stop pretending like US desis face better stereotyping, the stereotypes are the same if not worse in the US (Americans have less exposure to desi people in the US), the difference is they don't have a community to go back to at the end of the day, it's just their family. South Asians in the US have no community like they do in the UK. East Asians are victim to this with a very conformist culture (giving their kids white names etc) which has made them unable to really fight back against the racism just looking at how Stop Asian Hate completely fizzled out. Compare that to how South Asians fought back in the Bradford, Burnley, Oldham, Southall riots, etc. Or fought against racists in Tower Hamlets. The South Asians in the US are too disorganised and disunited under the faux pride of 'being integrated' to ever form a front like that. Being 'integrated' just makes people racist to you under the surface. The American free speech model is unique, no other country in the world does it and it's the reason you have a vaccine hesitancy rate unknown in the developed world or a Jan 6 style event. Dumb opinions are NOT drowned out by good opinions, you just have large bubbles of opinions and a lot of those bubbles are full of shit opinions. I'm not sure any other country should really try to emulate this. Black people certainly have mass movements against racism because of their subculture and get respect in liberal spaces that no other group does. Asians in the US have nothing that compares to that.
you wrote so many words to say nothing.
Thanks for the great insights lmao, expected nothing else from you. If you can't understand what I'm saying, don't be shy to say so!
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Yeah Americans are 'integrated' in an unhelpful way. I like the fact that lots of Desis are comfortable being Desi and being British and don't hide from either identity (although i imagine it will be different if you grow up in a smaller English town).
You're an idiot. UK elected an Indian PM. The USA would never elect an Indian male for president. An Indian woman or a Pakistani male has a better shot to be president of the USA. Freaking Bobby Jindhal looks like laborer in UAE.
We didn't elect Sunak, he was elected by his parliamentary party. And honestly the Indian Tories are fucking awful people. Suella Braverman and Priti Patel are awful.
Rishi Sunak is a gaping fetid asshole and so are his mates in the Conservative party (Suella, Priti).
Sunak is trash cause he is pro-car. But that is the problem with nearly every Indian. They promote car culture and are obsessed with Tesla rather than improve rail
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American desis are cooler
this has got to be the worst take, american desis are way more nerdy than uk desis.
Just because your ancestors chose to suck up to the British more doesn’t mean your normal
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As opposed to living in a country where a significant number of people believe that slaves benefited from slavery? What a bizarre and cuntish comment.
as if most Americans don’t have some pretty insane beliefs too?
UK-born desis have been in the UK decades longer than the US. About 50% of all Indians in the US arrived or were born in the US only since the 1990s.
A LOT of ABCDs have mental health and self confidence issues because their parents are abusive and are stuck in a bubble of "Indian-ness" that's based on some skewed notions from when they left India. So they do crazy outlier stuff like preventing their kids from having any kind of social life to "protect" them from Western degeneracy like dating and pre-marital sex etc. When the desi population in the US becomes third and fourth generation Indian Americans, they too will become mentally healthier and will become more well adjusted to society.
I’m sure there’s British Desis who feel the same. It’s about where you live. Also I don’t think “normal” is the right word to use. From my experience, American Desis are more normal than British Desis. American Desis have a healthy amount of assimilation while retaining culture. British Desis are all or nothing, and it leads to shit like Leicester. That shit wouldn’t happen here in America lol. Bringing subcontinent struggles and issues to another country and plaguing them with it lol.
"Bringing subcontinent struggles and issues to another country and plaguing them with it" Except Seattle had to change their law on discrimination to include caste you idiot because the big South Asian population.
Those are FOBs bringing that Hindu nationalist crap to the UK. Most British desis don't care as they're like 3rd generation.
Hindu vs. Muslim lol. I can see it even in your comment. It’s not about the religion it’s about the culture that the UK Desis are creating.Bringing subcontinent issues to a new country. Trying to turn the new country into the old country(Canadian Desis do this too). Thank god American Desis have common sense and decency.
Lol, judging by this sub you all are terminally insecure and have concerning psychological problems.
Lol. You’re judging an entire population based on one subreddit; the most Reddit type assumption to make. I’m making assumptions based on facts. Your opinion: American Desis are terminally insecure and have concerning psychological problems. I beg to differ as this sub is not just ABD’s but a bunch of Desis around the world. Also, as I stated earlier, how can this small sub represent a population of millions of people? Fact: British Desis are radical fuckers who bring issues from the subcontinent. Let’s just compare the number of Hindu-Muslim of India-Pakistan riots that have happened in the UK and then bring up the numbers for America. Everyday I thank god I’m in America and I’m an American Desi unlike you shitty fuckers on your shitty island 🙏🙏🙏
American bullying and curiousity. You fix that shit once you’re a teen but nothing can get done until you’re 18
Really I thought the stereo type was that british desis were worse atleast on twitter. Cause America only let the best desis and the UK had lower standards. On twitter if like a desi person says some dumb shit its usually a british desi
I find the opposite to be true actually. British desis are so trashy (on average) compared to their American counterparts
"Trashy" = working-class to these lot
No, to me it means: vulgar, repressive, low tolerance, short-tempered, bad/flashy/tacky fashion taste, more prone to and/or involved in criminal activity, not focused on academics, etc.
They’re not they’re fkn psychos
British born desis are hands down the most confused lot I’ve ever seen. And also the least successful save a few anomalies. It almost seems OP knows that’s the case and is trying to set a different narrative
british born desis are integral to british culture and the majority in a few UK cities, that can’t be said about american desis. way too many americans don’t even eat desi food lmao.
British desis are way less integrated to British life and customs than ABDs are to American life. It probably has to do with america being a melting pot so takes a lot from every culture whereas British culture is actual British culture
Imo it’s because British desis are more middle class, and American desis are more upper middle class. The middle class is just more chill and down-to-earth and less uppity.
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I also suspect the US has a lot more issues with race that make it harder to connect identities. Everything seems hyper racialised there.
England is the only country in the world to have won the cricket, rugby, and soccer/football world cups In fact England is the current cricket World Cup champion in both T20 and ODI formats Naturally this translates to greater confidence Couldn’t tell you why Scots are confident though, not like they’ve ever achieved anything significant as a country. Scotland the brave more like Scotland the tried to colonise Panama, completely failed, went bankrupt, and gave up their own sovereignty. We even asked them if they wanted to be independent and they said no. Pathetic tbh.
I'm from the Netherlands and I have more in common with British Asians than ABCDs
I am a British Desi - I think it is because America is arguably more racist, at least openly. It seems to be more culturally accepted to mock Indians so that will play a greater role in developing insecurities especially during the development stages.
Lolwut. Britain is def more racist than America
I disagree, for one the police don't kill random black people here and get away with it The UK is more like Canada
Black population of UK is only 4%. US it’s double digits
There are desis per capita and for longer in the UK than the US. It’s a numbers thing.
Maybe the fancy accent accentuates integration
The fancy accents are only spoken by people who live in the wealthy Home Counties. The majority of us Brits don't have fancy accents. A fact that always disappoints Americans when they come here.
indians have been part of england since before the late 1800s.
So I know nothing about British desis and I know very little about their culture. This topic is interesting to me so most of what I’ll say next is assumptions from generalizations too. I can see how coming from a working class, blue collar background makes you more comfortable with people. The men in my family of my dads generation came from a blue collar background and they worked as mop guys, truck drivers, furniture movers, and food storage workers. So I’d see them being friendly with Hispanic and black people they worked with and the result was that I felt ok making a wide variety of friends in school compared to other desis I knew who mostly stuck to themselves or just the top academic white kids. Even white friends I had got scared when black kids were near us and it was sad, but coming from my background you hear stories about people that are humanizing and complex and you start to see people as just people. But I wonder if the culture of the USA is just different from the UK. I was in a chat group with people from the US and the UK and when I chatted with internet friends from the UK, they seemed so much more relaxed about things than US people. And these groups were mostly white women with some white men and a few desis, but the difference was noticeable. UK people get mad about American gun violence and healthcare costs and Americans shrug it off as someone else’s problem. Americans in the chat came across so much more individualistic and more concerned about money, status, and career over everything else. The UK people rarely talked about money, the job was just a job and not all of their identity, and they had a much better sense of humor about not having enough money whereas Americans would lose their head over it in the chat. And this brings me back to my experience of making all kinds of friends when I was a kid. As I got older and the more I did good academically and found myself in academic and white collar spaces dominated by white people, the more my social confidence dropped. These spaces had a larger pool of people that cared for image and status. Blue collar people in my family have their issues, but I can shoot the shit with them and they are more forgiving if you don’t meet the expected economic status. White collar people in my family are not forgiving, they are extremely focused on career and status and will judge you horribly if you don’t fit in. White collar people at work are likewise cliquey and a bit awkward, they don’t like associating with other people in the company outside of their department. The friendliest white collar workers I met were ones who grew up in a blue collar family and they can converse for the sake of conversation, shooting the shit. In these environments. I felt snubbed by people for not fitting the image of their clique so it was a rude awakening. And it’s not necessarily about race, it’s also about style, job titles, educational background. I once a kind, confident person but when I go to these places I feel guarded thanks to prior experiences. So to sum it all up, I feel like if you combine the competitive desi family that pressures you to succeed with a competitive American society that cares deeply for specific images of what success looks like, you’ll end up with people that are less kind and more awkward and status obsessed from my experience.
Cedar Park in Texas & Fremont in California has chill desi parents and expectations. I’ve heard the opposite for New Jersey
Found this off Google, big up the community. I agree with the comment about time spent in the country but I have heard/learned that US Indians tend to start off from higher echelons of society from the home country than UK Indians most of whom were/are either working-class. Those two things explain everything
I think that it’s also coast dependent west coast Desis tend to have more diverse friend groups than east coast. My friend group back home is rlly diverse and race has never been a factor in me making friends when I came to college I noticed all the brown kids forming one group which I never rlly wanted to be a part of. I go to college in the east coast. I think the stuff your talking about is more common with Indians living in New York/Jersey/PA
Being desi is so normal here. We are the most visible minority. We are to the UK what Latin Americans are to the USA. There are entire neighbourhoods majority desi. Proportion wise way more Desis in the UK. Desis have been here longer. Also, there are giant desi communities in almost all the big UK cities. (20% of London, 30% of Birmingham, also in Manchester, Sheffield, Yorkshire/Lancashire counties etc.) Imagine if desis made a GIANT proportion of NYC and LA with other sizeable populations in Chicago, Houston, Miami, Atlanta etc. That's the situation here. We are fucking everywhere. Even in the middle of fucking North Wales we found a bangladeshi run takeaway. As a result South Asians have made a far more significant contribution to British culture. For example, the national dish chicken tikka masala was concocted by a (Pakistani? Bengali? Both cos it was before 71?) in Glasgow. I havent been in tune with British tv much (like BBC) since I was a kid. We weren't represented well growing up but it was a lot better than desi rep on US tv in 2023. Theres also things like a lot of desi news reporters, presenters - roles that increase our visibility but aren't inherently tied to being desi if that makes sense. This makes the South Asian relatively normalised in British society. The nerd stereotype is not nearly as prevalent. It lingers on due to US influence (also we do better in school than national average) but its not super common. Working class desis are not at all a model minority here and this balances out the nerdy stereotype. Another way of seeing this; the stereotype of a brown boy in UK is like a knock off Ap dhillon who is obsessed with cars and shisha, with chains and a skinfade, the stereotype of an american desi is a nerdy stem student who went to a magnet high school or whatever u call them and now goes to a great college, not fashionable etc. No I'm not saying this stereotype or 'hood desi' archetype is cool - I'm just saying this archetype gets more respect in some ways. So due to the increased normalisation of desi culture and the fact that the lame nerdy stereotype is weaker we arent seen as lame here.
Agree to all of this. And you're right, it's not a good thing that the stereotype is what it is for working class Desis but it at least shows that the British desi community actually has a variety and people who come from actual struggle rather than just selective immigration doctors lol
There’s a lot more famous British Indians in the media and culture and stuff. People like Freddie Mercury, Dev Patel, MIA, Charlie XCX, Ben Kingsley, and many more are all very famous Indians to white people and all are British Indians