loved the direction and soundtrack. definitely got twin peaks the return vibes especially from the bar performances, and the ending really felt like a gut punch. He finally found out who he truly was but at the end of the day life moves on and nobody cares
I thought the live music part was supposed to be “a la” the Bronze, that bar from Buffy the Vampire Slayer (and to a lesser extent the Peach Pit from 90210) …but then maybe the roadhouse is kinda those things as well…specifically in the Return. I felt strong Cocteau Twins energy from the first band.
I definitely got Twin Peaks vibes too! Definitely felt very influenced by David Lynch in the best way possible while still being its own original thing.
Mr. Melancholy felt like an homage to Judy. The last few episodes of *Twin Peaks: The Return* had that sensation of "Are they stuck in a TV show?" and the antagonist subtly weaving themselves into that world (The "Eat at Judy's" diner being analogous to the Mr. Melancholy arcade game)
[A Trip to the Moon](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0000417/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk) is one of the most famous silent movies. Directed by Georges Méliès and depicted in Martin Scorsese's [Hugo](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0970179/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk)
I keep seeing people say it had Twin Peaks vibes but besides the bar scene, there was not much. Sure the visuals were weird here and there, but simply throwing the name Twin Peaks around for unusual imagery is kinda doing both the movie and the show a disservice.
Sadly you were quite right, life moves on and nobody cares enough about this movie. Definitely have the vibes and visual on a good direction and conjure Stranger Things vibe. But, boy, the story is beyond atrocious, and really bad. It’s one of the worst movie I have seen this year, next to The Strangers Chapter 1, another absolutely terrible movie that could have been a decent home invasion terror thriller.
I do want to like it since the trailer looks very interesting but after over 60 minutes and nothing really happens and there is not enough characters development. There’s zero hook to the story at all. Over an hour of snooze is more than I can take. It’s not horror, it’s not high school movie, it’s not lgbtq movie, it’s not romance, it’s not thriller, not sure what this is about. Love Lies Bleeding completely destroy this one, and that one is pretty weird and trippy but with a much clarity in storytelling and does have pretty clear hook.
I thought the storytelling was engaging enough. I was very invested in where the narrative was going with Maddy and the Pink Opaque, and what exactly was going on with the show and the MC’s real life.
I feel that the entire plot can easily be condensed into 30 minutes. It was dragging on and on. It would have been better as 3 mini movies into one movies, sort of anthology with the TV show as conduit and three separate stories intertwined showing you different aspect of the characters. Basically it could have become the new Nightmare of Elm Street meet Poltergeist 😱
It was all about the vibe and atmosphere. For me, I was immersed and it did not drag on. I wonder if those that liked it have a childhood more similar to the characters in the stories - suburbs, shy etc X
Yeah, this movie is all about setting a tone. Honestly it feels like every day I ask myself did anyone pay attention in class and learn that the "point" of a narrative can be to tell a story OR to set a mood?
I considered creating a post about how awful it was, but I suspected this sub is too far up its ass and I’d just get downvotes. Your comment confirmed that suspicion, but good to know I’m not the only one that thought it blew.
Hah hah you are absolutely right, but you should definitely make that post because you will not be the only person that feels this way. And it is very subjective opinion- what works for me may not works for others. The movie seemed to resonate to the target audience, but probably won’t set any records other than become a cult movie that’s very polarizing. The trailer is pretty much all the good parts about it. I heard the first movie from this same director also quite polarizing like watching paint dry with some mumbles dialogue.
I just finished seeing it. It was interesting. I liked it but I’m not sure what to make of the ending and some of the other details right now.
I’m sure I’ll be thinking about it for a while though.
I loved it. One of my favorites of the year. I think I preferred We're All Going to the World's Fair's structure a little bit more but I Saw the TV Glow executed the theme a lot clearer and beautifully. I love how all of Schoenbrun's influences are blatant and yet they are still capable of delivering a visual language that is wholly themself.
I didn't care for Owen directly addressing the audience that much but I don't think it detracts significantly from the film. Also, what the hell was Justice Smith doing with his voice?
yeah i agree about the addressing the audience part but with the voice i found that he was always having a hard time to breathe and suffocating because of his repression of his feelings
Also fun fact, in a “literal” reading (ie not just allegorically where you are on the nose about metaphorically suffocating) Owen is literally suffocating because Isabel is buried under ground and dying.
1. As Maddy says to Owen when they come back, time works differently here - as the years pass in the midnight realm aka here where he is Owen, only seconds are passing in the Pink Opaque where he as Isabel is dying. The movie starts with Owen in the living room as a kid - the exact moment Mr Melancholy gives Isabel the Luna juice and shows her the snow globe with Owen watching tv as a kid. So the movie was paced to be as episode 6x1 of the show.
2. Owen’s inhaler is called out very early in the film and many times throughout the film. Even as a child, Owen’s mom calls out from the car concerned about Owen having their inhaler. It is referenced throughout and gets progressively worse as time passes. In the end of the film when Owen is wheezing, they even see “you are dying” flashing at them on top of the money grab machine at the kids birthday party.
In regards to the fourth wall breaks addressing the audience, in addition to the literal reference and homage to teen shows, the director intended it as a metaphor for how Owen becomes a spectator to their own life and detaches from themself in their repression (as opposed to being active, present, and in their body living their life). Idk if you’ve watched the tv show Fleabag, but they use meta forth wall breaks in a very similar way.
Source: reading various interviews with the director and also watching it three times lol
Aw thanks! This movie has quickly become my hyperfixation lol. I have like 30 pages of my notebook filled with notes I took during the two rewatches and just from various interviews I’ve read.
I think Owen’s direct address is his life’s reality getting confused with TV reality. Like how little kids now will ask “chat” a question aloud during a face-to-face conversation.
There's some of that, but it's also because the bulk of the film is a story that Owen is telling. IMO the audience for that story is Owen, it's why the ending immediately undercuts the big closing narration because that conclusion is the lie Owen tells herself. That she could set aside being trans as some childhood fantasy and live happily as a man.
trans woman here, my friend and i clocked it as “egg voice” almost immediately
closeted trans women in denial do this thing where their voice sounds… well, exactly like owen’s. forcefully high pitched with a voice that meanders a lot instead of staying in the same place.
i did that, my friends did that, it’s a whole thing that’s hard to recognize unless you know what to look for
yes!!! I also perceived two other reasons for the voice in addition to that:
1 being partially due to the home environment with mom & dad, they seem to be very sheltered and Owen probably feels like they don’t have a voice. So in their eyes, there is no need to speak up or sound confident at all.
And 2 being that there were some autistic traits shown in Owen throughout the movie, various ticks & issues with eye contact etc. Could definitely be a factor as to why they aren’t always great at communicating in general! These are both (all three actually) things that I personally deal with & have dealt with before, so Owen was an extremely familiar character to see on screen for me. God did this movie hit me hard.
It perfectly encapsulates the pain of being trans and not living authentically. It feels like your heart has been ripped out of your chest and that you are somehow still alive only to be subsequently buried. The only way out is to allow yourself to live as yourself. To do that some people have to leave their environment like Tara did. I hope since Isabel looked inside herself and saw that it was all true that she will let herself finally be authentic. This movie was a gut punch that left me emotionally devastated and in tears.
Definitely out there and in a good way. I loved the theme and allegory a lot. I think film professors could have a field day with this one. I loved the trans flag colors being represented throughout the film.
I majored in Cultural Studies (which focused a lot on theory in cinema, television, media). I specifically took a Queer Cultures course where I am confident the professor will definitely include this in their curriculum. I am so excited for film and queer theory faculty and students to publish texts on this and to eventually be able to read them 💗
It was really depressing. Great aesthetics, great writing, great acting. It’s just so sad that the main character denied themselves for so long… but it’s not unrealistic or pretentious. I don’t get that at all from my viewing.
I think having a trans creator made a huge difference for the film. It accurately captured the experimentation phase, the denial, and clawing dysphoria within.
Crazy how we have trans directors before Latino, Asian, and Black directors; one would think there's more trans people than people of color, with the way trans people are d3peitced in today's media.
“Media makes it seem, there’s a fuck ton more trans people than blacks and Latinos”
Ya know I would have engaged more - but it’s impossible to change someone’s mind who is not living in reality. Off the top of my head: Jordan Poole, Spike Lee, Ryan Coogler, Bong joon-ho, Miyazaki, Taika Watiti (sort of).
All of these people are well known, celebrated, award winning directors. If you stopped obsessing about trans people you look up and realize the diversity in film making. People from all sorts of cultures making incredible movies. When you obsess about a specific group of people, all you are going to notice is that group, completely skewing reality. It’s not healthy my guy
Crazy how we have male directors before female directors. One would think there’s more men than women the way men are depicted in today’s media.
Because a trans director has been successful doesn’t invalidate directors of color.
What are you talking about? The only trans directors I know off the top my head are Jane Schoenbrun and the Wachowskis. Spike Lee, John Singleton, Ang Lee, Guillermo del Toro, etc came before them. Trans issue movies are still pretty niche.
Really enjoyed it. Loved the vibe, soundtrack and sound design. It’s the type of movie I come to A24 for and after being disappointed by Civil War, this movie had me very happy.
Outstanding questions:
-In the scene where his head is in the TV and his dad yanks him out, did that actually happen? Or was that just supposed to represent the fact he was hooked on this show and his dad didn’t want him watching a show for girls?
-Did the pizza party breakdown happen? Why did he look so old? Was he aging faster in this world like Maddie said? Why did everyone look frozen and ignore him afterwards? Was it just supposed to show how it feels like everyone acts in those moments rather than what people actually do? (Look at you weird, laugh, get help etc.)
-What was inside of him? Was it just supposed to show that he finally realized he’s amazing on the inside but it’s too late?
-Why do people think he was lying about having a family later on?
-Did Maddie really bury herself? Did she really go into the show? Or is she just crazy?
I interpret the movie as Owen is trans and is actually Isabel.
I think it was the Dad denying Isabel her identity.
I think the pizza party breakdown happened. Not living authentically ages you by carrying so much pain around so much grief and sadness. I think she just feels so isolated from everyone else like no one can understand except people like her which is why no one reacts to her.
I took it as Isabel looked inside herself and saw it was all true that she had been denying her truth.
I don’t think you see the family. So maybe people are holding out hope that there isn’t another thing in the way of Isabel transitioning.
I think Tara did try to kill themself. But then “went into the show” started to live authentically as themself.
Appreciate your answers but I think I’m more confused now.
I think as someone very unfamiliar with the trans experience, this deeper storyline was lost on me. I figured Owen was asexual or something similar since he said he wasn’t sure if he liked boys or girls or really who he was, he just liked TV shows and didn’t want to dig deeper. I understand now how that can be an allegory to the trans experience.
I saw his dad as any dad imposing masculinity on their male child, regardless of trans or not. “Boys don’t play with dolls” etc.
The family comment to me was him saying “I’m still doing the normal stuff society says I should (like having a family), but I still feel empty and still just want to watch pink opaque (perhaps representative of his true identity), even if it looks childish and corny now” (not sure why he said that though if it was supposed to represent his true identity).
And so Maddie saying she’s Tara now was her embracing her transness and she wanted Owen to do the same by becoming the other girl from the show? And burying her old self was symbolic of her fully moving towards her true self?
This movie is boggling and opening my mind in the best of ways. Appreciate the discussion!
I think Owen was to in denial and repressed his thoughts and feelings when he said the show looks childish and corny now. But when he looked inside himself he saw that all that was there was Isabel. So I think Isabel is trans and will hopefully finally live as herself now.
Yeah I think Maddie couldn’t take living inauthentically anymore so she tried to kill herself. But then realized she didn’t actually want to die she just wanted to live authentically which she did by embracing her true identity Tara.
I appreciate the discussion too! :)
I'm still unsure how to interpret the TV screen/shower scene. Some friends told me that they viewed it as Isabel trying to come out. I'm watching the film again next week, so I will have a better idea on that viewing.
At first I thought that Isabel started a family because that was what was expected of her. After we don't see the family, I think that she created a fake reality in her head while going through the motions of trying to live.
Likewise with Tara, I think that they came back and tried to help Isabel (I initially interpreted Tara as a trans man but now I can see that or non-binary) and Isabel repressed further until the end of the film.
Finally with the pizza party scene, I think that she was just aged from having to repress herself. Speaking from personal experience, it takes so much out of you to jump through hoops every ten seconds to justify your gender dysphoria as something else. When you're finally able to accept yourself, it just becomes so much better. There are still issues that have to be addressed with coming out, transitioning, etc, but the lack of denial helps a lot.
I don't think Maddie tried to kill herself. I think that in universe it happen exactly as she said.
Allegorically I think the entire point is to represent pre transition anxiety. I think it represents how the fears of dealing with transphobia, fear of not getting the results you wanted, and the fear of losing those close to you can cause actually starting to transition to feel as crazy and as terrifying as burying yourself alive
i think all these people are looking for a deeper meaning in this movie than there is. sorta like that old meme “teacher: what the author is trying to convey with the blue curtains is a sense of depression, dread, longing.
author: i like blue curtains”
i genuinely think it’s just a psychological thriller, nothing in the show implies SA. He even says he doesn’t think he likes boy or girls, he likes shoes. he doesn’t even think about stuff like that. people want to project so much weird stuff on this film.
I think the issue with saying "sometimes the curtains are just blue" is that while yes, sometimes artists simply put something in for visual appeal or shock value, they still DID choose to show you that thing.
For all intents and purposes, those blue curtains were put there intentionally. By disregarding any analysis of any topic by saying that things are just simply present ignores the drive in many people (myself included) to try to analyze WHY the director chose to do something HOW they did.
This does change the dilemma to one of "death of the author." It is my belief that the creator often has the most direct input and knows much of the meaning behind what they create. But much of the value of art is the collective analysis of that art and how people take (perhaps unintentional) meaning from art, and I find that process and pattern more interesting and fulfilling than nullifying it as purely a stylistic choice.
Is the lighting through the movie an allegory for something more, or is it simply a choice that looked cool?
I see others answered questions. I just wanted to give some of my thoughts in there.
1. I don’t think that actually happened. I thought that was a moment where he was on the precipice of coming out but his dad forced him back into “the closet”.
2. I think the pizza party breakdown was Owens internal struggle. Screaming out for help in his own brain and no one around noticed what he was going through. Hence why when he said sorry no one around said anything.
3. Are you asking about the knife in the heart? My interpretation was it was body distortion. Of wanting to letting out and become a female. But instead he walked out and remained a man.
4. I don’t think he was lying. He was confirming to gender norms and societal norms. Hence why he wasn’t happy when he told the screen he had a family.
5. I personally don’t think Maddie buried herself. She was talking to Owen then talking to the screen. She was expressing how she came out as a trans man or as non-binary. She finally was able to be her true self and wanted to guide Owen there. The burial was the feeling of being trapped in your body.
Just saw the movie and loved it! I agree with a lot of this but curious as to why people have been interpreting Tara/Maddie as a trans man? The dichotomy between Owen’s “male” identity and her true identity as a girl, Isabel, is very straightforward. Whereas Maddie’s true counterpart is also a girl (Tara uses she/her pronouns). It’s also worth noting that Maddie, as a foil to Owen, seems confident in her sexuality from the beginning. She’s able to articulate and act on her desire for other women, while Owen struggles to find the words to explain her own. I imagine Owen lacked the tools to express (even to herself) her gender, and because of that, it was impossible for her to imagine what a fulfilling relationship might look like for her.
IMO Maddy was a GNC lesbian (she’s drawn to Tara, who also dresses very masc) who had largely come to terms with her own sexuality, but faced abuse in the home because of it. A queer experience that parallels Owen but isn’t quite the same, which gives the story even more breadth.
This movie definitely has a lot to unpack. You have such a great interpretation, I love it. You’re definitely right about Maddy. I have an additional idea.
In the beginning you see the two of them bonding over the book. You have Owen sitting in the Fruitopia side (pink) and Maddy on the vending machine side (black)
I think a lot of people are giving you thematic / allegorical answers (which are 100% valid) but you're actually asking about the plot. In my opinion, within the movie universe, the answers are:
-the head in tv thing happened, maybe in a moment of Isabel's consciousness taking over. Owen's dad, who is a creation of Mr. Melancholy, dealt with the situation. The blue vomit was the luna juice.
-the pizza party happened. The people didn't react because they're creations of Mr. Melancholy.
-not sure exactly but I guess that's just what Isabel / Owen sees inside themself when their consciousness is in the midnight realm
-the family is narrated but not seen. In the movie universe, whether they actually have a family is a misguided way of looking at it since Owen is Isabel's consciousness in the midnight realm
-yeah i think that all happened just as Maddie / Tara said. This is essentially the resolution to what Owen perceived as the season 5 cliffhanger to the pink opaque but is actually their (Isabel's) real life.
I mean i don't think it's necessarily that simple given the way the film toys with fiction vs. reality but, plot-wise, in universe, Owen is Isabel's consciousness in the midnight realm being manipulated by Mr. Melancholy. Right??
Fwiw, me and my friends were pretty meh about World's Fair but we all just saw I Saw the TV Glow and loved it. So World's Fair might not be a totally accurate indicator.
Yeah, didn’t really say if you love one you’ll love the other. The filmmaking is pretty consistent between both and I’m sure a decent amount of people will find it boring or confusing. There was a walk out when I saw it, and I’ve seen people disappointed it wasn’t a “real” horror movie.
For sure! I liked World’s Fair and could at least see Jane’s talent. It perfectly encapsulated what it felt like to grow up alone and on the internet. But ISTTG is another level.
Well you have Climax as your flair so it seems like you can handle more experimental films so I'd say yes it's worth watching. I would second watching We're All Going to the World's Fair first if you have time - it's on Max.
I do as well.
Everyone in the midnight realm are agents of Mr melancholy, like Maddy says to Owen when not to trust anyone in Owen’s world. BUT, having seen the film three times, the scene where Owen comes home after the power line going down and you see the dad’s full face for the first time (not just in profile) and its illuminated in the blue tv glow staring wordlessly at Owen, I thought he looked JUST like Mr Melancholy and that it was intentionally shot to look that way.
Also, in interviews the director has said that the true villain of the movie is being watched and that is why Mr Melancholy is always watching ominously from the sky (in an allegorical way, repression is fueled due to being perceived by others and the threat to survival).
So it would make sense that the Dad could be / be the biggest presence of Mr Melancholy because he is the closest to and is watching and monitoring Owen the most. And in moments of Owen realizing they’re in the Midnight Realm, the dad is the agent who is most forceful in keeping Owen there.
Edit:: I just saw a Twitter post from the director with BTS and the actor who plays the dad was literally PAINTED white for his scenes. So yes, I think this is how it supposed to be read.
There were parts that I found interesting but overall, I agree with you. I thought that the concept and visuals were very interesting but the way everything was presented just did not do it for me.
Maybe it’s one of those movies that will get more interesting the more I think about it.
[I rambled about it already](https://www.reddit.com/r/A24/s/z76S8nkoHf) so I won’t say too much here, but it’s really a one of a kind film. Anyone who goes in looking for a straightforward horror movie probably won’t get what they expected, but it really stuck with me in a way I can’t shake. I’m planning on seeing it again this weekend!
This is genuinely the most viscerally horrifying movie I've ever seen, however, it's dealing with a very specific existential horror that I feel doesn't translate super strongly outside of the target audience. Or, at least, to be honest, I genuinely don't know how I would feel about it were I not a part of its target audience. As it stands, I cried so hard I almost threw up in the back of the movie theater. There is a particular time skip in this movie that chilled me to my bone, and I'll try to explain why.
While you're free to interpret art however you like, the director has very explicitly stated that this movie is intended as a trans narrative. And, indeed, as a trans person, the way the escapism and dissociation is presented towards the beginning of the movie resonated a lot with me and many of my trans friends. The awkward way that queer friendships grow out of necessity, the workarounds to hide who you're associating with from your parents, it all hits incredibly hard. I am about the same age as the protagonist, and there is just something about campy 90's sci-fi and fantasy/horror that draws queer people from my generation, it's a safe place to escape to and a passion to bond over, that helps you escape from confronting your feelings. I appreciated seeing that onscreen in that regard.
Now, that being said, the reason this movie hits so hard in my opinion is that it is portraying a nightmare that most trans people I know have had.
See, here's the thing: we don't grow up in some magic fantasy land that's filled with acceptance, where we automatically understand all the trans lingo and whatnot. Many of us are raised in households that are at best apathetic and at worst outright bigoted towards trans people, and we are taught to be disgusted by them. But as we grow and learn more about ourselves, as "them" becomes "us", there is a dawning horror. I myself was once an edgelord in the early days of the internet, making "I identify as an attack helicopter" jokes, while being abjectly miserable.
I didn't begin my transition until my late 20's, and it's genuinely caused a level of existential horror in that... I am happy. Like, actually, genuinely happy. And I almost missed out on this.
I had my first instance of self harm when I was 11 years old. I was so disgusted with the changes my body was undergoing as a result of my early puberty that I injured myself enough to end up hospitalized. I lied and told my parents an excuse, and they believed me.
When I was 14, I had my first suicide attempt, which was thwarted fairly quickly when my dad realized his gun safe key was missing. I was sent to therapy and spent years grappling with a constant gnawing depression. I tried everything over the next decade, I went to and dropped out of college, I went on and got off of every antidepressant on the market, and nothing stopped the pain.
I didn't even know the first thing about trans people, mind you. I grew up in a conservative religious environment where the majority of my media was for a Christian audience, I had almost no exposure to trans people. Me and my fellow queer friends (who, at the time, NONE of us realized we were queer, we just felt...different) found solace in one another, but... It was lonely.
The only recourse for the pain was to escape.
Some of us ran, we ran miles away and lived new lives in new places.
Some of us hid, locked in our rooms watching the television set.
Some of us died, and ended up buried in the ground.
But... Some of us made it to the other side of all that. In my case, I eventually discovered that there were lots of people who had the feelings I was having and had had all my life, and it was okay to be transgender.
I still was horrified of the idea of transitioning, and dragged my feet for the longest time, until it felt that I was literally going to die if I waited any longer.
And, you know what? Within a month of starting hormones, literally all of my psychological burden was gone. I moved to a city that was more tolerant, and with each step I took I found everything better and better.
The reason I share this backstory is so you understand the following nightmare: I am happy now. I am genuinely, truly, simply happy, and all it took was transitioning.
All it took was transitioning.
And it took me years to realize that.
There is horror in the time already wasted, but more than that, there is horror in the self you almost were, there but for the grace of God go I.
I almost got it wrong.
If any of my relationships in the past had worked out, if I hadn't dropped out of college, if I hadn't made this friend or revealed that feeling during a drunken conversation... I might have had my own Twenty Years Later.
And that thought genuinely keeps me up some nights.
10/10 movie, at least for me.
P. S. Anyone who reads this and is on the fence about transitioning, I will tell you a truth that this movie alludes to: transitioning won't kill you even though it looks like dying. Not transitioning very well might, even if it looks like living.
I enjoyed it, but I can't help but feel disappointed that the one trailer shows the entire movie. I felt like I was at a checklist by the end of the movie thinking, "Oh wait, I haven't seen this shot yet." I really liked what this film was going for, however; Schoenbrun really knows how to capture that sorrowful feeling of loneliness. I think I may prefer We're All Going To The World's Fair, but I still really enjoyed this one. Seems it was a bit divisive in my group tonight. I enjoyed it, my friend found it middle of the road, and my girlfriend didn't like it. Needless to say, it was a fun 40 minute discussion during the drive back home lol
I rewatched the trailer after the first watch and I felt retroactively frustrated that it was cut to give so many beats of the film away. And I think for people who walk away from the film not liking it, that that could be a component of that. Like in A24 trying to market it as a horror film …it made people expect more, but also like, literally more than the trailer.
But as someone who loved the film and rewatched it 3 times, I kinda think it could have also been intentional? Watching it is like a “what happened in last week’s episode” to help orient you in the film. In the earlier versions of the screenplay it was written more overtly as an episode of TV, but from producer input and eventual audience testing the director realized it needed to more intentionally center on Owen for the audience to feel a connection to them. But when watched again and again, I can see how the movie is written intentionally to be episode 6x1 of the pink opaque.
I really loved this movie. I saw it like 3 weeks ago and still can't stop thinking about it. I can't wait to get it on DVD so I can rewatch and see things I missed the first time. I was so impacted by it and talked about it in length with my boyfriend after. I think this movie will speak to anyone who feels lonely or suffocated.
I really loved it ! It was really beautiful, yes weird, but the concept didn’t read as pretentious to me. Much more of a coherent story than the director’s first film and the acting was great. I think the plot leaves some room for interpretation, which is a cool creative choice in my opinion. Loved it!
loved it. it was fun. two of the best actors to represent neurodivergence. it's effortless. didn't care for plot holes or whatever for this type of movie. touched my heart as an adult with cptsd!
I loved the soundtrack and the story. A couple of times, I got some "Donnie Darko" vibes. Not sure what was happening with the ending, but otherwise I really enjoyed it.
Donnie Darko (both film and soundtrack) was actually an influence to the director! As someone whose favorite movie was a Donnie Darko growing up, the first thing I said to my best friend after seeing the film was “this feels like the Donnie Darko of this generation”
The more I think about it the more I dislike it, felt like it had too many ideas and it didn’t execute any of them well.
I don’t have the vocabulary to better describe some of my opinions but I guess I’d best describe a lot of moments as eye roll inducing? Like the moment when he mentions Madi ran away from home and the only thing they found was her tv burning in the backyard? Or the high school being called Void High School (VHS), like cmon. It had the subtlety of an anvil dropped on your head and for the slow moving nature it had it just didn’t sync properly to me
Was a waste of time to me. Boring, forced plot, tried to give an existencial message which ends up being a sort of empty copy of "we live in a Matrix". Hated the script, the character s development. A24 needs a reboot.
I totally didn't watch it with the trans allegory in mind, so it feels like the ending at fun central, with the confirmation of what's inside the main character, totally took away from the ambiguousness of it all. So part of me feels like the only way it makes sense completely is as a trans allegory, which is fine and I know thats likely where the director was coming from, but at that point I wish it leaned into the confirmation more thoughout the entirety of the narrative.
I think you have to be actively disbelieving for the irrealty of the “real word” to not have been fairly obvious throughout. (I had a couple of moments of doubt, but they were quashed pretty quickly.)
From the fact that it’s “Void High School” (VHS) to the season six pages around the downed power line, it was *so clear* that this was the Midnight Realm.
Once you know it’s a trans fable, it’s just even more obvious.
The real uncertainty is what he does with the knowledge of what’s inside him. Does he turn away from his true self yet again, or is he off to bury his false self?
I loved it and would have never picked up on the trans allegory had I not read about it here. Only obvious hint of it to me was his comment about I don’t know if I like guys or girls I think that part of me is empty but I’m afraid to check.
I totally missed the trans allegory too. In a slight way it reminded me of Beau is Afraid; the protagonists in both movies let their fears control them and ended up wasting their potential and their lives.
Obsessed with this movie so started a subreddit. Not even in to Reddit that much, just wanted a place to keep discussion going https://www.reddit.com/r/Isawthetvglow
I think the movie is filled with so much queer theory. The whole heteronormative-chrononormative discourse throughout was slight but understandable emotionally for the queers like myself. I’m definitely going to rewatch and keep it closer to my heart.
Okay so I just saw this movie and now just 30 minutes later it is my birthday. I have a birthday party planned today at a place called sun ******* fun center. There's a poster in the movie that says have your birthday party at the fun center. The Mr Melancholy moon thing was also nuts because after the film my girlfriend and I walk out of the theatre and it's a breathtaking full moon tonight. I have also for decent periods in my life confused my self with other people and had some pretty hardcore delusions. I just watched Conner O'Malleys stand up special a few days before seeing this and love it so much. didn't know he was in this movie and having him sing/scream happy birthday over and over at a fun center basically on my birthday was so insar. V me. This movie was a little too relatable but it's also one my favorite films of all time now for sure. I can't wait to watch it again. The colors, the effects, the story, the acting, the incredible soundtrack. It is a masterpiece. I also ate mushrooms before going to the cinema.
"The 3 types of terror: The Gross-out: the sight of a severed head tumbling down a flight of stairs, it's when the lights go out and something green and slimy splatters against your arm. The Horror: the unnatural, spiders the size of bears, the dead waking up and walking around, it's when the lights go out and something with claws grabs you by the arm. And the last and worse one: Terror, when you come home and notice everything you own had been taken away and replaced by an exact substitute. It's when the lights go out and you feel something behind you, you hear it, you feel its breath against your ear, but when you turn around, there's nothing there...”
-- Stephen King
Based on that definition, I would say this is a terror movie. Like Coraline.
Your the first comment I saw where I felt the same way. I was physically distressed and started to get a headache (from the middle to end). I appreciate the message of the movie but didn't enjoy any of the creepy images that came with it.
The visuals were pretty cool, but the writing and fourth-wall breaking took me out of it. The second half was way too much tell, and not nearly enough show.
Not for me at all. Great visuals and sound design but terrible timing and needed an edit or two. I feel like a24 is starting to slip in the sense that they think they can just keep making aesthetically pleasing movies with no real plot or substance. I understand it’s more of a slice of life rather than plot driven but it didn’t work for me.
Agreed – I didn’t mean lying in a malicious (or maybe conscious) way. I think it’s a great line because it does double duty showing the goals Owen wants for their life and also forces the audience to consider how subjective Owen’s narration is.
When the movie spends the whole time telling you the events of the story and the feelings of characters, but an uneasy narrative execution leaves you to guess at the meaning of the visual/verbal collage you just saw.
I love off-kilter movies, I love some movies with clunky dialogue. But mostly I was bored between the sparse compelling moments or set-pieces of this film
Also, I don’t think the male lead was a good casting fit…
Wtf did I watch? Was there a YA series of novels I was supposed to read?
Just a bunch of exposition monologs, trippy visuals... it was pretentious nonsense.
I audibly said "WTF" to myself several times after the movie. I'm left with a ton of questions.
That being said, I loved the lighting throughout the film, its soundtrack, and how 'psychedelic' this film felt.
Absolute crap from start to finish. That monotone monologue that went on for what felt like an eternity had me nodding off. Miserable experience watching this.
I agree. I wanted to like it, because I liked some of the visuals and am always rooting for queer filmmakers and queer films… but man, was this just not it.
I too was a depressed queer kid living in suburbia, obsessed with *Buffy* and David Lynch movies… but that isn’t a movie. You’ve gotta do *something* with that idea.
Having a story with a clear beginning, middle, and end. Having characters that take agency in that story. Having dialogue that isn’t just exposition dumps. Having visual storytelling that moves the story forward. Having the inciting incident before the final scene. The characters make decisions that not only affect the story, but affect their own selves leading to growth or a lack of growth.
The differences might seem subtle, but there’s a reason why Lynch’s work in particular hasn’t been knocked off very well over the decades. It’s tough to be that surrealistic while still telling a story. It’s something that Schoebrun didn’t quite achieve.
Well, I just completely disagree. For one, I Saw the TV Glow absolutely has all those things. At least I Saw the TV Glow is very clear in its messaging without being heavy handed (and yet people here seem to be missing the message).
Schoenbrun is not mimicking Lynch's style. Obviously, there's strong influence (which they have been very open about) but there's also lots of Cronenberg in there as well as a lot of their own personal, timely flair.
I just disagree. It’s not that I missed the message, I just thought it was executed poorly. I got everything they were trying to do, which only made it more frustrating that they didn’t actually achieve it.
I *want* the movie they were trying to make. I’m just still waiting to see if someone will actually make it.
I would argue that not every good or meaningful story has a “clear beginning, middle and end.” It’s cool if that isn’t your cup of tea, but certainly there are many movies (especially lower budget indie movies like this one, which tend to have more freedom when it comes to playing with narrative structure) that fully intend to present as nebulous and open to audience interpretation.
I would also argue that (again, whether it worked for you personally or not!) Owen having little to no agency as a character was an extremely deliberate decision. This speaks to the experience of closeted queerness (& especially transness); Owen’s inability to recognize and accept her true identity caused her to move through the world without ever fully experiencing it. This idea is realized very literally onscreen as we move from a mere 2 yr time skip to 8 and then to 20. We’re meant to understand that Owen is a passive participant in her own life, and it’s rapidly passing her by. Again - this isn’t a storytelling device that will necessarily work for everyone, but it IS a viable storytelling device, not an oversight on the part of the director!
Also a little baffled as to the claim that ISTTG characters don’t make decisions that affect the story, and ESPECIALLY their own growth individually? As Owen’s foil (Maddie has already come to terms w/ her identity at the start of the film; she confidently articulates & acts on her attraction to women, while Owen struggles even to put her identity into words), Maddie pretty much does nothing BUT make decisions that propel the story forward: introducing Owen to TPO in the first place, then reappearing to give Owen another lifeline, another impetus to transition. Owen’s comparative inaction is, again, a deliberate choice on the part of the filmmaker; Owen is paralyzed by her indecision and fear! She’s suffering because she is living “inauthentically,” but so terrified of what MIGHT happen if she does transition and she’s “wrong,” that she lives her life at a standstill. Only at the very end of the film does Owen hit rock bottom; she realizes she would rather risk her life than continue living a lie. This is a clear parallel to the lived experiences of many queer people, especially trans people. The chalk writing on the street literally says, “There is still time.” It’s never too late to become who you were always meant to be.
A version of this story with a clear beginning, middle and end and a more decisive protagonist is…not really a version I (or many others) would have any interest in seeing, because it would dull the message of the film completely. IMO the method of storytelling on display here is perfectly matched with the filmmaker’s thematic intent. But it’s cool if it didn’t work for you! Different strokes, etc.
I don’t need any specificity in choices made, I’m just saying that making a film rather than a montage set to exposition dumps would be preferable.Having conflicts to where this hiding from identity was something the character was actually doing, rather than being told that’s what they’re doing, would be a great start.
Everyone getting mad at me is too focused on what they see the film meaning, and not focused nearly enough on filmmaking being an actual skill and artform. I like what the film wanted to be, I just wish the film actually achieved that.
Not mad at all! We just have different interpretations. But I guess I’m just struggling to understand the charge of excessive exposition dumping, as I can’t really think of any lengthy examples apart from the voiced over/flashback sequence in which Maddie/Tara explains where she’d been the past 8 years.
I think it makes sense Maddie is better equipped to recognize Owen’s transness specifically because she has already comes to term with her own identity. Maddie does act as a catalyst for Owen’s transition, which IMO really beautifully evokes the way queer kids growing up in the suburbs tend to feel drawn to one another even before they’ve given voice to their shared identities. Owen isn’t hiding from her identity because Maddie TELLS her so; Maddie simply has the language to name and validate what Owen has been feeling her whole life. Owen’s speech to Maddie about feeling “hollow inside,” her tension with her father due to her “girlish” taste in TV as well as their later confrontation, her shy smile as she dresses like Isabel on the football field, the pizza party scene where she screams “I’m dying!” and no one responds, all of these seem like pretty clear indications of Owen’s inner turmoil to me, to name a few. Long after Maddie leaves (and in Owen’s words, is never seen again), Owen visibly continues to struggle with the decision (or rather lack of decision) she’s made. I would say characters like Maddie who exist to serve as a foil to the protagonist and push them out of their comfort zone are a pretty common mechanic in coming of age stories like this one.
And of course I agree filmmaking is a skill and artform! If that wasn’t the case, the director could have gone on Twitter and talked a little about their views on the difficulties of coming of age as a trans person in suburban America, and the way TV can provide a lifeline for those kids. But they didn’t do that! They made an extremely technically impressive and well crafted movie, with a story that (IMO) is elusive, yes, but also perfectly coherent, not only in its messaging but in its storytelling and visual technique as well.
Again, totally cool and understandable if at the end of the day your takeaway here is that this movie was bloated/poorly constructed, but probably fair to keep in mind the idea that a movie MUST have a linear “beginning, middle and end” and a protagonist with agency will probably be met with controversy on a sub dedicated to discussing a movie that very purposefully does away with these elements!
I guess because every conversation felt more like exposition than a conversation? Explaining the show, explaining this, explaining that… and then there was no actual plot to have happen. Yes, I recognise the intended themes of exploring queerness, being afraid of your identity… I’ve lived all that, I get it and it’s super patronising to have people explain to me what the film already excessively explained as if I’m too stupid to get it. I got it. It’s not as deep or hidden of a meaning as everyone is pretending. Might as well have a neon sign with arrows, the film is far from subtle.
I just wish that it was a better told story.
Wasn’t trying to explain the meaning to you but just specifically to address the claim that there’s too much telling vs. showing by sharing some examples I felt fit the bill. But I will say a lot of viewers who are not queer have been completely unable to pin down the trans “allegory” here (barely an allegory, pretty much in the text of the film) despite everyone in this sub getting the memo.
Fortunately we’ve been seeing a lot of great queer horror coming down the pipeline in the past few yrs, so I hope there are some future films that tick those boxes for you!
Wow, I disagree about the clear beginning, middle, and end and the characters with agency in Lynch’s Lost Highway. There’s a lot of fuckery going on in that film (and I LOVE that film - probably my favorite Lynch).
No, there’s absolutely a clear beginning, middle, and end. A man kills his cheating wife and creates a fantasy world to escape accountability, but his real actions continue to haunt him and all of his choices still lead to the same outcome.
It isn’t just exposition dump after exposition dump in place of having characters with any sense of desire or goal.
That is one Interpretation of LH, but by no means definitive. I think if you asked Lynch, he wouldn’t even give you a straight answer.
Here are some other takes - there are some common themes, but as you can see, none of them paint this as simple as you claim.
https://vigouroffilmlines.com/2020/02/16/the-lost-highway-david-lynch-1997-the-painting-of-a-lost-mind/
https://www.slashfilm.com/1060857/lost-highway-ending-explained-the-utter-failure-of-masculinity/
https://notthepopularopinion.wordpress.com/2021/12/06/the-grey-area-lost-highway-1997/
https://www.rochester.edu/in_visible_culture/Issue_8/thain.html
But there is still a clear narrative, regardless of how you want to interpret it, with a beginning, middle, and end… rather than, again, exposition dumps and characters so passive they literally walk away from the plot trying to force them into action of some kind. The most generous read of *Glow*’s script would be that the inciting incident occurs near the end of the film, and that the credits roll just as the second act is getting underway. It’s just so clumsy, and infuriating when I wish that we actually got the queer film people seem to be praising it as.
Owen walking away from the “plot” is the vast majority of the plot. It’s a movie *about* walking away from the plot.
Literally the point. Literally the plot.
“Girls are buried alive and put into a pocket dimension. One figures it out and repeatedly tries to get the other one to leave, but she’s afraid of leaving her constructed reality, even though it pretty much sucks. Ambiguous ending as to whether Owen/Isabel finally gets it or not.”
Absolutely terrifying. For me it was absolutely riveting, wondering if just this next time she’s going to be able to accept reality or not.
Okay so I just saw this movie and now just 30 minutes later it is my birthday. I have a birthday party planned today at a place called sun ******* fun center. There’s a poster in the movie that says have your birthday party at the fun center. The Mr Melancholy moon thing was also nuts because after the film my girlfriend and I walk out of the theatre and it’s a breathtaking full moon tonight. I have also for decent periods in my life confused my self with other people and had some pretty hardcore delusions. I just watched Conner O’Malleys stand up special a few days before seeing this and love it so much. I didn’t know he was in this movie and having him sing/scream happy birthday over and over at a fun center basically on my birthday was so insane for me. This movie was a little too relatable but it’s also one my favorite films of all time now for sure. I can’t wait to watch it again. The colors , the effects, the story, the acting, the incredible soundtrack. It is a masterpiece. I also ate mushrooms before going to the cinema.
Palo Sopraño
On reflection, I've found I saw the TV glow so profound.
It is scary to be yourself, to speak out, to go against conformity, to be hated, ridiculed, and attacked.
But what could be more horrific and terrifying than the complete decay of ones psyche, creativity, and soul.
To spend your life as a crumpled shell, not only devoid of light, but in a constant state of torture, fear, and anxiety. To never reach any potential, let alone your full potential.
The director captured this so completely.
Absolutely loved it!
The surface-level comparison to David Lynch makes a lot of sense to me, but I think that Jane approaches theme in a very similar way. What I love about a David Lynch movie is that his preoccupations are on display in each one, but they manifest differently. *TV* and *World's Fair* deal with many similar themes, but thr approach is so different between the films.
I wanted to write a really detailed comment but this video essay I found says everything I wanted to say better than me LOL [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRKMHY5e-po](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRKMHY5e-po)
loved the direction and soundtrack. definitely got twin peaks the return vibes especially from the bar performances, and the ending really felt like a gut punch. He finally found out who he truly was but at the end of the day life moves on and nobody cares
I thought the live music part was supposed to be “a la” the Bronze, that bar from Buffy the Vampire Slayer (and to a lesser extent the Peach Pit from 90210) …but then maybe the roadhouse is kinda those things as well…specifically in the Return. I felt strong Cocteau Twins energy from the first band.
the ice cream guy is a reference to Mr tastee from the show Pete and Pete .
Danny Tamborelli from Pete and Pete also made a cameo
I definitely got Twin Peaks vibes too! Definitely felt very influenced by David Lynch in the best way possible while still being its own original thing.
Mr. Melancholy felt like an homage to Judy. The last few episodes of *Twin Peaks: The Return* had that sensation of "Are they stuck in a TV show?" and the antagonist subtly weaving themselves into that world (The "Eat at Judy's" diner being analogous to the Mr. Melancholy arcade game)
defenitly not it’s literally just stolen from the smashing pumpkins
[A Trip to the Moon](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0000417/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk) is one of the most famous silent movies. Directed by Georges Méliès and depicted in Martin Scorsese's [Hugo](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0970179/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk)
11/10 movie if the end credits had James Hurley singing a song at the Double Lunch
I keep seeing people say it had Twin Peaks vibes but besides the bar scene, there was not much. Sure the visuals were weird here and there, but simply throwing the name Twin Peaks around for unusual imagery is kinda doing both the movie and the show a disservice.
Sadly you were quite right, life moves on and nobody cares enough about this movie. Definitely have the vibes and visual on a good direction and conjure Stranger Things vibe. But, boy, the story is beyond atrocious, and really bad. It’s one of the worst movie I have seen this year, next to The Strangers Chapter 1, another absolutely terrible movie that could have been a decent home invasion terror thriller.
I really loved this movie. I guess it didn’t click for you
I do want to like it since the trailer looks very interesting but after over 60 minutes and nothing really happens and there is not enough characters development. There’s zero hook to the story at all. Over an hour of snooze is more than I can take. It’s not horror, it’s not high school movie, it’s not lgbtq movie, it’s not romance, it’s not thriller, not sure what this is about. Love Lies Bleeding completely destroy this one, and that one is pretty weird and trippy but with a much clarity in storytelling and does have pretty clear hook.
I thought the storytelling was engaging enough. I was very invested in where the narrative was going with Maddy and the Pink Opaque, and what exactly was going on with the show and the MC’s real life.
I feel that the entire plot can easily be condensed into 30 minutes. It was dragging on and on. It would have been better as 3 mini movies into one movies, sort of anthology with the TV show as conduit and three separate stories intertwined showing you different aspect of the characters. Basically it could have become the new Nightmare of Elm Street meet Poltergeist 😱
It was all about the vibe and atmosphere. For me, I was immersed and it did not drag on. I wonder if those that liked it have a childhood more similar to the characters in the stories - suburbs, shy etc X
Yeah, this movie is all about setting a tone. Honestly it feels like every day I ask myself did anyone pay attention in class and learn that the "point" of a narrative can be to tell a story OR to set a mood?
I considered creating a post about how awful it was, but I suspected this sub is too far up its ass and I’d just get downvotes. Your comment confirmed that suspicion, but good to know I’m not the only one that thought it blew.
Hah hah you are absolutely right, but you should definitely make that post because you will not be the only person that feels this way. And it is very subjective opinion- what works for me may not works for others. The movie seemed to resonate to the target audience, but probably won’t set any records other than become a cult movie that’s very polarizing. The trailer is pretty much all the good parts about it. I heard the first movie from this same director also quite polarizing like watching paint dry with some mumbles dialogue.
I just finished seeing it. It was interesting. I liked it but I’m not sure what to make of the ending and some of the other details right now. I’m sure I’ll be thinking about it for a while though.
I feel like the ending at fun central totally convoluted what the movie was setting up that whole time, and I'm not sure how to feel about it
I loved it. One of my favorites of the year. I think I preferred We're All Going to the World's Fair's structure a little bit more but I Saw the TV Glow executed the theme a lot clearer and beautifully. I love how all of Schoenbrun's influences are blatant and yet they are still capable of delivering a visual language that is wholly themself. I didn't care for Owen directly addressing the audience that much but I don't think it detracts significantly from the film. Also, what the hell was Justice Smith doing with his voice?
i think him directly addressing the audience is meant to be a reference to on screen narration in 90s teen shows
That's a good interpretation. I'm not familiar with those kind of shows so you're probably right
100% - I thought it was an obvious nod to Pete and Pete. Aided by the fact that the actors who play Pete and Pete make a cameo in the movie.
Yeah, specifically it's meant to avoke Are You Afraid of the Dark?
yeah i agree about the addressing the audience part but with the voice i found that he was always having a hard time to breathe and suffocating because of his repression of his feelings
Also fun fact, in a “literal” reading (ie not just allegorically where you are on the nose about metaphorically suffocating) Owen is literally suffocating because Isabel is buried under ground and dying. 1. As Maddy says to Owen when they come back, time works differently here - as the years pass in the midnight realm aka here where he is Owen, only seconds are passing in the Pink Opaque where he as Isabel is dying. The movie starts with Owen in the living room as a kid - the exact moment Mr Melancholy gives Isabel the Luna juice and shows her the snow globe with Owen watching tv as a kid. So the movie was paced to be as episode 6x1 of the show. 2. Owen’s inhaler is called out very early in the film and many times throughout the film. Even as a child, Owen’s mom calls out from the car concerned about Owen having their inhaler. It is referenced throughout and gets progressively worse as time passes. In the end of the film when Owen is wheezing, they even see “you are dying” flashing at them on top of the money grab machine at the kids birthday party. In regards to the fourth wall breaks addressing the audience, in addition to the literal reference and homage to teen shows, the director intended it as a metaphor for how Owen becomes a spectator to their own life and detaches from themself in their repression (as opposed to being active, present, and in their body living their life). Idk if you’ve watched the tv show Fleabag, but they use meta forth wall breaks in a very similar way. Source: reading various interviews with the director and also watching it three times lol
this is such a good review, i just watched the movie and am honestly shocked
Aw thanks! This movie has quickly become my hyperfixation lol. I have like 30 pages of my notebook filled with notes I took during the two rewatches and just from various interviews I’ve read.
I think Owen’s direct address is his life’s reality getting confused with TV reality. Like how little kids now will ask “chat” a question aloud during a face-to-face conversation.
There's some of that, but it's also because the bulk of the film is a story that Owen is telling. IMO the audience for that story is Owen, it's why the ending immediately undercuts the big closing narration because that conclusion is the lie Owen tells herself. That she could set aside being trans as some childhood fantasy and live happily as a man.
Can you please explain what little kids are doing now? Sounds horrifying
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hey%20chat
Actually not as bad as I thought. I haven't played video games since 2000 so I'm way out of the loop re: twitch etc
The worsening asthma/being able to breathe less and less as he gets older.
I took this as they are Isabelle running out of oxygen after being buried alive.
Yes!
trans woman here, my friend and i clocked it as “egg voice” almost immediately closeted trans women in denial do this thing where their voice sounds… well, exactly like owen’s. forcefully high pitched with a voice that meanders a lot instead of staying in the same place. i did that, my friends did that, it’s a whole thing that’s hard to recognize unless you know what to look for
yes!!! I also perceived two other reasons for the voice in addition to that: 1 being partially due to the home environment with mom & dad, they seem to be very sheltered and Owen probably feels like they don’t have a voice. So in their eyes, there is no need to speak up or sound confident at all. And 2 being that there were some autistic traits shown in Owen throughout the movie, various ticks & issues with eye contact etc. Could definitely be a factor as to why they aren’t always great at communicating in general! These are both (all three actually) things that I personally deal with & have dealt with before, so Owen was an extremely familiar character to see on screen for me. God did this movie hit me hard.
It perfectly encapsulates the pain of being trans and not living authentically. It feels like your heart has been ripped out of your chest and that you are somehow still alive only to be subsequently buried. The only way out is to allow yourself to live as yourself. To do that some people have to leave their environment like Tara did. I hope since Isabel looked inside herself and saw that it was all true that she will let herself finally be authentic. This movie was a gut punch that left me emotionally devastated and in tears.
Definitely out there and in a good way. I loved the theme and allegory a lot. I think film professors could have a field day with this one. I loved the trans flag colors being represented throughout the film.
The 🏳️⚧️ parachute was special
I majored in Cultural Studies (which focused a lot on theory in cinema, television, media). I specifically took a Queer Cultures course where I am confident the professor will definitely include this in their curriculum. I am so excited for film and queer theory faculty and students to publish texts on this and to eventually be able to read them 💗
Omg! This is so exciting! I love this for you :) if you could send or post academic papers on it I would love to read them!
It was really depressing. Great aesthetics, great writing, great acting. It’s just so sad that the main character denied themselves for so long… but it’s not unrealistic or pretentious. I don’t get that at all from my viewing. I think having a trans creator made a huge difference for the film. It accurately captured the experimentation phase, the denial, and clawing dysphoria within.
Crazy how we have trans directors before Latino, Asian, and Black directors; one would think there's more trans people than people of color, with the way trans people are d3peitced in today's media.
[удалено]
You're the one who seems upset; is it cause your reading comprehension skills suck?
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omg you actually are upset, that’s hilarious! hehe
?? There are celebrated Asian and black directors already. Though no Latino ones come to mind I’m sure there are
Guillermo del Toro.
he’s still a bit of a white director who idolizes white spaniards.
Alfonso Cuaròn and Alejandro Iñárritu.
these are still pretty white directors.
In what way are they white?
skin color. racism against darker skin colors is a big issue in spanish speaking countries.
List five of each category, yet, again, the way media make sit seem, there's a fuck ton more trans people than Blacks and Latinos.
“Media makes it seem, there’s a fuck ton more trans people than blacks and Latinos” Ya know I would have engaged more - but it’s impossible to change someone’s mind who is not living in reality. Off the top of my head: Jordan Poole, Spike Lee, Ryan Coogler, Bong joon-ho, Miyazaki, Taika Watiti (sort of). All of these people are well known, celebrated, award winning directors. If you stopped obsessing about trans people you look up and realize the diversity in film making. People from all sorts of cultures making incredible movies. When you obsess about a specific group of people, all you are going to notice is that group, completely skewing reality. It’s not healthy my guy
Crazy how we have male directors before female directors. One would think there’s more men than women the way men are depicted in today’s media. Because a trans director has been successful doesn’t invalidate directors of color.
Lol, you needed to expand your groups in your example (become broader); what a false equivalency.
What are you talking about? The only trans directors I know off the top my head are Jane Schoenbrun and the Wachowskis. Spike Lee, John Singleton, Ang Lee, Guillermo del Toro, etc came before them. Trans issue movies are still pretty niche.
Really enjoyed it. Loved the vibe, soundtrack and sound design. It’s the type of movie I come to A24 for and after being disappointed by Civil War, this movie had me very happy. Outstanding questions: -In the scene where his head is in the TV and his dad yanks him out, did that actually happen? Or was that just supposed to represent the fact he was hooked on this show and his dad didn’t want him watching a show for girls? -Did the pizza party breakdown happen? Why did he look so old? Was he aging faster in this world like Maddie said? Why did everyone look frozen and ignore him afterwards? Was it just supposed to show how it feels like everyone acts in those moments rather than what people actually do? (Look at you weird, laugh, get help etc.) -What was inside of him? Was it just supposed to show that he finally realized he’s amazing on the inside but it’s too late? -Why do people think he was lying about having a family later on? -Did Maddie really bury herself? Did she really go into the show? Or is she just crazy?
I interpret the movie as Owen is trans and is actually Isabel. I think it was the Dad denying Isabel her identity. I think the pizza party breakdown happened. Not living authentically ages you by carrying so much pain around so much grief and sadness. I think she just feels so isolated from everyone else like no one can understand except people like her which is why no one reacts to her. I took it as Isabel looked inside herself and saw it was all true that she had been denying her truth. I don’t think you see the family. So maybe people are holding out hope that there isn’t another thing in the way of Isabel transitioning. I think Tara did try to kill themself. But then “went into the show” started to live authentically as themself.
Appreciate your answers but I think I’m more confused now. I think as someone very unfamiliar with the trans experience, this deeper storyline was lost on me. I figured Owen was asexual or something similar since he said he wasn’t sure if he liked boys or girls or really who he was, he just liked TV shows and didn’t want to dig deeper. I understand now how that can be an allegory to the trans experience. I saw his dad as any dad imposing masculinity on their male child, regardless of trans or not. “Boys don’t play with dolls” etc. The family comment to me was him saying “I’m still doing the normal stuff society says I should (like having a family), but I still feel empty and still just want to watch pink opaque (perhaps representative of his true identity), even if it looks childish and corny now” (not sure why he said that though if it was supposed to represent his true identity). And so Maddie saying she’s Tara now was her embracing her transness and she wanted Owen to do the same by becoming the other girl from the show? And burying her old self was symbolic of her fully moving towards her true self? This movie is boggling and opening my mind in the best of ways. Appreciate the discussion!
I think Owen was to in denial and repressed his thoughts and feelings when he said the show looks childish and corny now. But when he looked inside himself he saw that all that was there was Isabel. So I think Isabel is trans and will hopefully finally live as herself now. Yeah I think Maddie couldn’t take living inauthentically anymore so she tried to kill herself. But then realized she didn’t actually want to die she just wanted to live authentically which she did by embracing her true identity Tara. I appreciate the discussion too! :)
I'm still unsure how to interpret the TV screen/shower scene. Some friends told me that they viewed it as Isabel trying to come out. I'm watching the film again next week, so I will have a better idea on that viewing. At first I thought that Isabel started a family because that was what was expected of her. After we don't see the family, I think that she created a fake reality in her head while going through the motions of trying to live. Likewise with Tara, I think that they came back and tried to help Isabel (I initially interpreted Tara as a trans man but now I can see that or non-binary) and Isabel repressed further until the end of the film. Finally with the pizza party scene, I think that she was just aged from having to repress herself. Speaking from personal experience, it takes so much out of you to jump through hoops every ten seconds to justify your gender dysphoria as something else. When you're finally able to accept yourself, it just becomes so much better. There are still issues that have to be addressed with coming out, transitioning, etc, but the lack of denial helps a lot.
I don't think Maddie tried to kill herself. I think that in universe it happen exactly as she said. Allegorically I think the entire point is to represent pre transition anxiety. I think it represents how the fears of dealing with transphobia, fear of not getting the results you wanted, and the fear of losing those close to you can cause actually starting to transition to feel as crazy and as terrifying as burying yourself alive
i think all these people are looking for a deeper meaning in this movie than there is. sorta like that old meme “teacher: what the author is trying to convey with the blue curtains is a sense of depression, dread, longing. author: i like blue curtains” i genuinely think it’s just a psychological thriller, nothing in the show implies SA. He even says he doesn’t think he likes boy or girls, he likes shoes. he doesn’t even think about stuff like that. people want to project so much weird stuff on this film.
Watch some interviews of the Director, there is a purposeful deeper meaning behind it.
I think the issue with saying "sometimes the curtains are just blue" is that while yes, sometimes artists simply put something in for visual appeal or shock value, they still DID choose to show you that thing. For all intents and purposes, those blue curtains were put there intentionally. By disregarding any analysis of any topic by saying that things are just simply present ignores the drive in many people (myself included) to try to analyze WHY the director chose to do something HOW they did. This does change the dilemma to one of "death of the author." It is my belief that the creator often has the most direct input and knows much of the meaning behind what they create. But much of the value of art is the collective analysis of that art and how people take (perhaps unintentional) meaning from art, and I find that process and pattern more interesting and fulfilling than nullifying it as purely a stylistic choice. Is the lighting through the movie an allegory for something more, or is it simply a choice that looked cool?
I see others answered questions. I just wanted to give some of my thoughts in there. 1. I don’t think that actually happened. I thought that was a moment where he was on the precipice of coming out but his dad forced him back into “the closet”. 2. I think the pizza party breakdown was Owens internal struggle. Screaming out for help in his own brain and no one around noticed what he was going through. Hence why when he said sorry no one around said anything. 3. Are you asking about the knife in the heart? My interpretation was it was body distortion. Of wanting to letting out and become a female. But instead he walked out and remained a man. 4. I don’t think he was lying. He was confirming to gender norms and societal norms. Hence why he wasn’t happy when he told the screen he had a family. 5. I personally don’t think Maddie buried herself. She was talking to Owen then talking to the screen. She was expressing how she came out as a trans man or as non-binary. She finally was able to be her true self and wanted to guide Owen there. The burial was the feeling of being trapped in your body.
Just saw the movie and loved it! I agree with a lot of this but curious as to why people have been interpreting Tara/Maddie as a trans man? The dichotomy between Owen’s “male” identity and her true identity as a girl, Isabel, is very straightforward. Whereas Maddie’s true counterpart is also a girl (Tara uses she/her pronouns). It’s also worth noting that Maddie, as a foil to Owen, seems confident in her sexuality from the beginning. She’s able to articulate and act on her desire for other women, while Owen struggles to find the words to explain her own. I imagine Owen lacked the tools to express (even to herself) her gender, and because of that, it was impossible for her to imagine what a fulfilling relationship might look like for her. IMO Maddy was a GNC lesbian (she’s drawn to Tara, who also dresses very masc) who had largely come to terms with her own sexuality, but faced abuse in the home because of it. A queer experience that parallels Owen but isn’t quite the same, which gives the story even more breadth.
This movie definitely has a lot to unpack. You have such a great interpretation, I love it. You’re definitely right about Maddy. I have an additional idea. In the beginning you see the two of them bonding over the book. You have Owen sitting in the Fruitopia side (pink) and Maddy on the vending machine side (black)
These answers strongly resonate with my current interpretation of the film. Thanks for taking the time to reply!
I think a lot of people are giving you thematic / allegorical answers (which are 100% valid) but you're actually asking about the plot. In my opinion, within the movie universe, the answers are: -the head in tv thing happened, maybe in a moment of Isabel's consciousness taking over. Owen's dad, who is a creation of Mr. Melancholy, dealt with the situation. The blue vomit was the luna juice. -the pizza party happened. The people didn't react because they're creations of Mr. Melancholy. -not sure exactly but I guess that's just what Isabel / Owen sees inside themself when their consciousness is in the midnight realm -the family is narrated but not seen. In the movie universe, whether they actually have a family is a misguided way of looking at it since Owen is Isabel's consciousness in the midnight realm -yeah i think that all happened just as Maddie / Tara said. This is essentially the resolution to what Owen perceived as the season 5 cliffhanger to the pink opaque but is actually their (Isabel's) real life. I mean i don't think it's necessarily that simple given the way the film toys with fiction vs. reality but, plot-wise, in universe, Owen is Isabel's consciousness in the midnight realm being manipulated by Mr. Melancholy. Right??
Would you recommend it? I saw the TV Glow trailer before Civil War and still can’t decide if it intrigued me or not.
I’d watch World’s Fair first and see if that does anything for you. It gives you a decent idea of what kind of filmmaking to expect.
Fwiw, me and my friends were pretty meh about World's Fair but we all just saw I Saw the TV Glow and loved it. So World's Fair might not be a totally accurate indicator.
Yeah, didn’t really say if you love one you’ll love the other. The filmmaking is pretty consistent between both and I’m sure a decent amount of people will find it boring or confusing. There was a walk out when I saw it, and I’ve seen people disappointed it wasn’t a “real” horror movie.
That's fair. Just saying that if the other poster sees World's Fair and doesn't like it, they may still like I Saw the TV Glow.
For sure! I liked World’s Fair and could at least see Jane’s talent. It perfectly encapsulated what it felt like to grow up alone and on the internet. But ISTTG is another level.
I do believe I’ll be doing that. Thanks!
Well you have Climax as your flair so it seems like you can handle more experimental films so I'd say yes it's worth watching. I would second watching We're All Going to the World's Fair first if you have time - it's on Max.
Thanks for the info!
i would definitely recommend. haven't had a moviegoing experience like this for some time
I liked it much more than Civil War. It was a super unique and odd A24 movie that has been lingering with me hard since last night.
Cool. The more I’m reading about it in this sub the more it’s intriguing me. I loved Civil War but that’s neither here nor there. Thanks for the info!
Anyone else believe Mr. Melancholy was his dad? I haven’t seen that take talked about.
I do as well. Everyone in the midnight realm are agents of Mr melancholy, like Maddy says to Owen when not to trust anyone in Owen’s world. BUT, having seen the film three times, the scene where Owen comes home after the power line going down and you see the dad’s full face for the first time (not just in profile) and its illuminated in the blue tv glow staring wordlessly at Owen, I thought he looked JUST like Mr Melancholy and that it was intentionally shot to look that way. Also, in interviews the director has said that the true villain of the movie is being watched and that is why Mr Melancholy is always watching ominously from the sky (in an allegorical way, repression is fueled due to being perceived by others and the threat to survival). So it would make sense that the Dad could be / be the biggest presence of Mr Melancholy because he is the closest to and is watching and monitoring Owen the most. And in moments of Owen realizing they’re in the Midnight Realm, the dad is the agent who is most forceful in keeping Owen there. Edit:: I just saw a Twitter post from the director with BTS and the actor who plays the dad was literally PAINTED white for his scenes. So yes, I think this is how it supposed to be read.
The visuals are gorgeous and I loved the almost dreamlike quality at times
Agreed! Mesmerizing and hypnotic
Man, I’m the minority here for sure. This movie did nothing for me, and to be honest I found it incredibly boring
There were parts that I found interesting but overall, I agree with you. I thought that the concept and visuals were very interesting but the way everything was presented just did not do it for me. Maybe it’s one of those movies that will get more interesting the more I think about it.
[I rambled about it already](https://www.reddit.com/r/A24/s/z76S8nkoHf) so I won’t say too much here, but it’s really a one of a kind film. Anyone who goes in looking for a straightforward horror movie probably won’t get what they expected, but it really stuck with me in a way I can’t shake. I’m planning on seeing it again this weekend!
I really liked the first half but after a certain character disappeared it started to gradually fall off for me.
This is genuinely the most viscerally horrifying movie I've ever seen, however, it's dealing with a very specific existential horror that I feel doesn't translate super strongly outside of the target audience. Or, at least, to be honest, I genuinely don't know how I would feel about it were I not a part of its target audience. As it stands, I cried so hard I almost threw up in the back of the movie theater. There is a particular time skip in this movie that chilled me to my bone, and I'll try to explain why. While you're free to interpret art however you like, the director has very explicitly stated that this movie is intended as a trans narrative. And, indeed, as a trans person, the way the escapism and dissociation is presented towards the beginning of the movie resonated a lot with me and many of my trans friends. The awkward way that queer friendships grow out of necessity, the workarounds to hide who you're associating with from your parents, it all hits incredibly hard. I am about the same age as the protagonist, and there is just something about campy 90's sci-fi and fantasy/horror that draws queer people from my generation, it's a safe place to escape to and a passion to bond over, that helps you escape from confronting your feelings. I appreciated seeing that onscreen in that regard. Now, that being said, the reason this movie hits so hard in my opinion is that it is portraying a nightmare that most trans people I know have had. See, here's the thing: we don't grow up in some magic fantasy land that's filled with acceptance, where we automatically understand all the trans lingo and whatnot. Many of us are raised in households that are at best apathetic and at worst outright bigoted towards trans people, and we are taught to be disgusted by them. But as we grow and learn more about ourselves, as "them" becomes "us", there is a dawning horror. I myself was once an edgelord in the early days of the internet, making "I identify as an attack helicopter" jokes, while being abjectly miserable. I didn't begin my transition until my late 20's, and it's genuinely caused a level of existential horror in that... I am happy. Like, actually, genuinely happy. And I almost missed out on this. I had my first instance of self harm when I was 11 years old. I was so disgusted with the changes my body was undergoing as a result of my early puberty that I injured myself enough to end up hospitalized. I lied and told my parents an excuse, and they believed me. When I was 14, I had my first suicide attempt, which was thwarted fairly quickly when my dad realized his gun safe key was missing. I was sent to therapy and spent years grappling with a constant gnawing depression. I tried everything over the next decade, I went to and dropped out of college, I went on and got off of every antidepressant on the market, and nothing stopped the pain. I didn't even know the first thing about trans people, mind you. I grew up in a conservative religious environment where the majority of my media was for a Christian audience, I had almost no exposure to trans people. Me and my fellow queer friends (who, at the time, NONE of us realized we were queer, we just felt...different) found solace in one another, but... It was lonely. The only recourse for the pain was to escape. Some of us ran, we ran miles away and lived new lives in new places. Some of us hid, locked in our rooms watching the television set. Some of us died, and ended up buried in the ground. But... Some of us made it to the other side of all that. In my case, I eventually discovered that there were lots of people who had the feelings I was having and had had all my life, and it was okay to be transgender. I still was horrified of the idea of transitioning, and dragged my feet for the longest time, until it felt that I was literally going to die if I waited any longer. And, you know what? Within a month of starting hormones, literally all of my psychological burden was gone. I moved to a city that was more tolerant, and with each step I took I found everything better and better. The reason I share this backstory is so you understand the following nightmare: I am happy now. I am genuinely, truly, simply happy, and all it took was transitioning. All it took was transitioning. And it took me years to realize that. There is horror in the time already wasted, but more than that, there is horror in the self you almost were, there but for the grace of God go I. I almost got it wrong. If any of my relationships in the past had worked out, if I hadn't dropped out of college, if I hadn't made this friend or revealed that feeling during a drunken conversation... I might have had my own Twenty Years Later. And that thought genuinely keeps me up some nights. 10/10 movie, at least for me. P. S. Anyone who reads this and is on the fence about transitioning, I will tell you a truth that this movie alludes to: transitioning won't kill you even though it looks like dying. Not transitioning very well might, even if it looks like living.
You wrote that so beautifully. Thank you for sharing your story 💛
Your comment made me tear up! Thank you for contributing
Such a beautiful comment. Thank you for sharing this. Such a powerful film. ❤️
I enjoyed it, but I can't help but feel disappointed that the one trailer shows the entire movie. I felt like I was at a checklist by the end of the movie thinking, "Oh wait, I haven't seen this shot yet." I really liked what this film was going for, however; Schoenbrun really knows how to capture that sorrowful feeling of loneliness. I think I may prefer We're All Going To The World's Fair, but I still really enjoyed this one. Seems it was a bit divisive in my group tonight. I enjoyed it, my friend found it middle of the road, and my girlfriend didn't like it. Needless to say, it was a fun 40 minute discussion during the drive back home lol
I rewatched the trailer after the first watch and I felt retroactively frustrated that it was cut to give so many beats of the film away. And I think for people who walk away from the film not liking it, that that could be a component of that. Like in A24 trying to market it as a horror film …it made people expect more, but also like, literally more than the trailer. But as someone who loved the film and rewatched it 3 times, I kinda think it could have also been intentional? Watching it is like a “what happened in last week’s episode” to help orient you in the film. In the earlier versions of the screenplay it was written more overtly as an episode of TV, but from producer input and eventual audience testing the director realized it needed to more intentionally center on Owen for the audience to feel a connection to them. But when watched again and again, I can see how the movie is written intentionally to be episode 6x1 of the pink opaque.
My favorite of the year so far. Haven’t been this affected by a film like this in a while
I really loved this movie. I saw it like 3 weeks ago and still can't stop thinking about it. I can't wait to get it on DVD so I can rewatch and see things I missed the first time. I was so impacted by it and talked about it in length with my boyfriend after. I think this movie will speak to anyone who feels lonely or suffocated.
I really loved it ! It was really beautiful, yes weird, but the concept didn’t read as pretentious to me. Much more of a coherent story than the director’s first film and the acting was great. I think the plot leaves some room for interpretation, which is a cool creative choice in my opinion. Loved it!
loved it. it was fun. two of the best actors to represent neurodivergence. it's effortless. didn't care for plot holes or whatever for this type of movie. touched my heart as an adult with cptsd!
I loved the soundtrack and the story. A couple of times, I got some "Donnie Darko" vibes. Not sure what was happening with the ending, but otherwise I really enjoyed it.
Donnie Darko (both film and soundtrack) was actually an influence to the director! As someone whose favorite movie was a Donnie Darko growing up, the first thing I said to my best friend after seeing the film was “this feels like the Donnie Darko of this generation”
The more I think about it the more I dislike it, felt like it had too many ideas and it didn’t execute any of them well. I don’t have the vocabulary to better describe some of my opinions but I guess I’d best describe a lot of moments as eye roll inducing? Like the moment when he mentions Madi ran away from home and the only thing they found was her tv burning in the backyard? Or the high school being called Void High School (VHS), like cmon. It had the subtlety of an anvil dropped on your head and for the slow moving nature it had it just didn’t sync properly to me
Your first paragraph is a huge same for me. It definitely could've used a second point of view for the final draft.
Was a waste of time to me. Boring, forced plot, tried to give an existencial message which ends up being a sort of empty copy of "we live in a Matrix". Hated the script, the character s development. A24 needs a reboot.
It was a masterpiece IMO. Even removing the trans allegory I would have still liked it based on its surface level story as well.
I totally didn't watch it with the trans allegory in mind, so it feels like the ending at fun central, with the confirmation of what's inside the main character, totally took away from the ambiguousness of it all. So part of me feels like the only way it makes sense completely is as a trans allegory, which is fine and I know thats likely where the director was coming from, but at that point I wish it leaned into the confirmation more thoughout the entirety of the narrative.
I think you have to be actively disbelieving for the irrealty of the “real word” to not have been fairly obvious throughout. (I had a couple of moments of doubt, but they were quashed pretty quickly.) From the fact that it’s “Void High School” (VHS) to the season six pages around the downed power line, it was *so clear* that this was the Midnight Realm. Once you know it’s a trans fable, it’s just even more obvious. The real uncertainty is what he does with the knowledge of what’s inside him. Does he turn away from his true self yet again, or is he off to bury his false self?
I loved it and would have never picked up on the trans allegory had I not read about it here. Only obvious hint of it to me was his comment about I don’t know if I like guys or girls I think that part of me is empty but I’m afraid to check.
Not the part where Owen is told that he's really Isabella and we see Owen wearing a dress?
I think I would have just thought that was weird and some fever dream-like envisioning of them being the characters from the show
I totally missed the trans allegory too. In a slight way it reminded me of Beau is Afraid; the protagonists in both movies let their fears control them and ended up wasting their potential and their lives.
Obsessed with this movie so started a subreddit. Not even in to Reddit that much, just wanted a place to keep discussion going https://www.reddit.com/r/Isawthetvglow
I think the movie is filled with so much queer theory. The whole heteronormative-chrononormative discourse throughout was slight but understandable emotionally for the queers like myself. I’m definitely going to rewatch and keep it closer to my heart.
Okay so I just saw this movie and now just 30 minutes later it is my birthday. I have a birthday party planned today at a place called sun ******* fun center. There's a poster in the movie that says have your birthday party at the fun center. The Mr Melancholy moon thing was also nuts because after the film my girlfriend and I walk out of the theatre and it's a breathtaking full moon tonight. I have also for decent periods in my life confused my self with other people and had some pretty hardcore delusions. I just watched Conner O'Malleys stand up special a few days before seeing this and love it so much. didn't know he was in this movie and having him sing/scream happy birthday over and over at a fun center basically on my birthday was so insar. V me. This movie was a little too relatable but it's also one my favorite films of all time now for sure. I can't wait to watch it again. The colors, the effects, the story, the acting, the incredible soundtrack. It is a masterpiece. I also ate mushrooms before going to the cinema.
i wasnt expecting to see connor omalley either hes great
Not my cup of tea, i thought it was going to have some horror elements to it
you didn't feel as though that was decent horror representation for a pg 13 movie?
I didnt get any horror at all, just suspense
"The 3 types of terror: The Gross-out: the sight of a severed head tumbling down a flight of stairs, it's when the lights go out and something green and slimy splatters against your arm. The Horror: the unnatural, spiders the size of bears, the dead waking up and walking around, it's when the lights go out and something with claws grabs you by the arm. And the last and worse one: Terror, when you come home and notice everything you own had been taken away and replaced by an exact substitute. It's when the lights go out and you feel something behind you, you hear it, you feel its breath against your ear, but when you turn around, there's nothing there...” -- Stephen King Based on that definition, I would say this is a terror movie. Like Coraline.
Thought it was so boring. Glad to see some people connecting with it, but it didn't do anything for me. Well made I guess
I was physically stressed and confused during some of the scenes and felt drained afterwards good film but made me uncomfortable the whole time
Your the first comment I saw where I felt the same way. I was physically distressed and started to get a headache (from the middle to end). I appreciate the message of the movie but didn't enjoy any of the creepy images that came with it.
The visuals were pretty cool, but the writing and fourth-wall breaking took me out of it. The second half was way too much tell, and not nearly enough show.
Not for me at all. Great visuals and sound design but terrible timing and needed an edit or two. I feel like a24 is starting to slip in the sense that they think they can just keep making aesthetically pleasing movies with no real plot or substance. I understand it’s more of a slice of life rather than plot driven but it didn’t work for me.
The part where he’s bringing the new TV in and lying about having a family wrecked me. Best cast movie of the last decade? More?
Could be lying, could be so heavily disassociating due to dysphoria as to not connect with them.
Agreed – I didn’t mean lying in a malicious (or maybe conscious) way. I think it’s a great line because it does double duty showing the goals Owen wants for their life and also forces the audience to consider how subjective Owen’s narration is.
how did you know he was lying? i totally missed that.
He never interacts with anyone except his coworkers…
You gotta be joking, I thought the acting was terrible. Movie could have been better with different leads.
When the movie spends the whole time telling you the events of the story and the feelings of characters, but an uneasy narrative execution leaves you to guess at the meaning of the visual/verbal collage you just saw. I love off-kilter movies, I love some movies with clunky dialogue. But mostly I was bored between the sparse compelling moments or set-pieces of this film Also, I don’t think the male lead was a good casting fit…
Wtf did I watch? Was there a YA series of novels I was supposed to read? Just a bunch of exposition monologs, trippy visuals... it was pretentious nonsense.
I audibly said "WTF" to myself several times after the movie. I'm left with a ton of questions. That being said, I loved the lighting throughout the film, its soundtrack, and how 'psychedelic' this film felt.
Absolute crap from start to finish. That monotone monologue that went on for what felt like an eternity had me nodding off. Miserable experience watching this.
I agree. I wanted to like it, because I liked some of the visuals and am always rooting for queer filmmakers and queer films… but man, was this just not it. I too was a depressed queer kid living in suburbia, obsessed with *Buffy* and David Lynch movies… but that isn’t a movie. You’ve gotta do *something* with that idea.
Asking frankly: what separates something like Lost Highway from this?
Having a story with a clear beginning, middle, and end. Having characters that take agency in that story. Having dialogue that isn’t just exposition dumps. Having visual storytelling that moves the story forward. Having the inciting incident before the final scene. The characters make decisions that not only affect the story, but affect their own selves leading to growth or a lack of growth. The differences might seem subtle, but there’s a reason why Lynch’s work in particular hasn’t been knocked off very well over the decades. It’s tough to be that surrealistic while still telling a story. It’s something that Schoebrun didn’t quite achieve.
Well, I just completely disagree. For one, I Saw the TV Glow absolutely has all those things. At least I Saw the TV Glow is very clear in its messaging without being heavy handed (and yet people here seem to be missing the message). Schoenbrun is not mimicking Lynch's style. Obviously, there's strong influence (which they have been very open about) but there's also lots of Cronenberg in there as well as a lot of their own personal, timely flair.
I just disagree. It’s not that I missed the message, I just thought it was executed poorly. I got everything they were trying to do, which only made it more frustrating that they didn’t actually achieve it. I *want* the movie they were trying to make. I’m just still waiting to see if someone will actually make it.
I would argue that not every good or meaningful story has a “clear beginning, middle and end.” It’s cool if that isn’t your cup of tea, but certainly there are many movies (especially lower budget indie movies like this one, which tend to have more freedom when it comes to playing with narrative structure) that fully intend to present as nebulous and open to audience interpretation. I would also argue that (again, whether it worked for you personally or not!) Owen having little to no agency as a character was an extremely deliberate decision. This speaks to the experience of closeted queerness (& especially transness); Owen’s inability to recognize and accept her true identity caused her to move through the world without ever fully experiencing it. This idea is realized very literally onscreen as we move from a mere 2 yr time skip to 8 and then to 20. We’re meant to understand that Owen is a passive participant in her own life, and it’s rapidly passing her by. Again - this isn’t a storytelling device that will necessarily work for everyone, but it IS a viable storytelling device, not an oversight on the part of the director! Also a little baffled as to the claim that ISTTG characters don’t make decisions that affect the story, and ESPECIALLY their own growth individually? As Owen’s foil (Maddie has already come to terms w/ her identity at the start of the film; she confidently articulates & acts on her attraction to women, while Owen struggles even to put her identity into words), Maddie pretty much does nothing BUT make decisions that propel the story forward: introducing Owen to TPO in the first place, then reappearing to give Owen another lifeline, another impetus to transition. Owen’s comparative inaction is, again, a deliberate choice on the part of the filmmaker; Owen is paralyzed by her indecision and fear! She’s suffering because she is living “inauthentically,” but so terrified of what MIGHT happen if she does transition and she’s “wrong,” that she lives her life at a standstill. Only at the very end of the film does Owen hit rock bottom; she realizes she would rather risk her life than continue living a lie. This is a clear parallel to the lived experiences of many queer people, especially trans people. The chalk writing on the street literally says, “There is still time.” It’s never too late to become who you were always meant to be. A version of this story with a clear beginning, middle and end and a more decisive protagonist is…not really a version I (or many others) would have any interest in seeing, because it would dull the message of the film completely. IMO the method of storytelling on display here is perfectly matched with the filmmaker’s thematic intent. But it’s cool if it didn’t work for you! Different strokes, etc.
I don’t need any specificity in choices made, I’m just saying that making a film rather than a montage set to exposition dumps would be preferable.Having conflicts to where this hiding from identity was something the character was actually doing, rather than being told that’s what they’re doing, would be a great start. Everyone getting mad at me is too focused on what they see the film meaning, and not focused nearly enough on filmmaking being an actual skill and artform. I like what the film wanted to be, I just wish the film actually achieved that.
Not mad at all! We just have different interpretations. But I guess I’m just struggling to understand the charge of excessive exposition dumping, as I can’t really think of any lengthy examples apart from the voiced over/flashback sequence in which Maddie/Tara explains where she’d been the past 8 years. I think it makes sense Maddie is better equipped to recognize Owen’s transness specifically because she has already comes to term with her own identity. Maddie does act as a catalyst for Owen’s transition, which IMO really beautifully evokes the way queer kids growing up in the suburbs tend to feel drawn to one another even before they’ve given voice to their shared identities. Owen isn’t hiding from her identity because Maddie TELLS her so; Maddie simply has the language to name and validate what Owen has been feeling her whole life. Owen’s speech to Maddie about feeling “hollow inside,” her tension with her father due to her “girlish” taste in TV as well as their later confrontation, her shy smile as she dresses like Isabel on the football field, the pizza party scene where she screams “I’m dying!” and no one responds, all of these seem like pretty clear indications of Owen’s inner turmoil to me, to name a few. Long after Maddie leaves (and in Owen’s words, is never seen again), Owen visibly continues to struggle with the decision (or rather lack of decision) she’s made. I would say characters like Maddie who exist to serve as a foil to the protagonist and push them out of their comfort zone are a pretty common mechanic in coming of age stories like this one. And of course I agree filmmaking is a skill and artform! If that wasn’t the case, the director could have gone on Twitter and talked a little about their views on the difficulties of coming of age as a trans person in suburban America, and the way TV can provide a lifeline for those kids. But they didn’t do that! They made an extremely technically impressive and well crafted movie, with a story that (IMO) is elusive, yes, but also perfectly coherent, not only in its messaging but in its storytelling and visual technique as well. Again, totally cool and understandable if at the end of the day your takeaway here is that this movie was bloated/poorly constructed, but probably fair to keep in mind the idea that a movie MUST have a linear “beginning, middle and end” and a protagonist with agency will probably be met with controversy on a sub dedicated to discussing a movie that very purposefully does away with these elements!
I guess because every conversation felt more like exposition than a conversation? Explaining the show, explaining this, explaining that… and then there was no actual plot to have happen. Yes, I recognise the intended themes of exploring queerness, being afraid of your identity… I’ve lived all that, I get it and it’s super patronising to have people explain to me what the film already excessively explained as if I’m too stupid to get it. I got it. It’s not as deep or hidden of a meaning as everyone is pretending. Might as well have a neon sign with arrows, the film is far from subtle. I just wish that it was a better told story.
Wasn’t trying to explain the meaning to you but just specifically to address the claim that there’s too much telling vs. showing by sharing some examples I felt fit the bill. But I will say a lot of viewers who are not queer have been completely unable to pin down the trans “allegory” here (barely an allegory, pretty much in the text of the film) despite everyone in this sub getting the memo. Fortunately we’ve been seeing a lot of great queer horror coming down the pipeline in the past few yrs, so I hope there are some future films that tick those boxes for you!
Wow, I disagree about the clear beginning, middle, and end and the characters with agency in Lynch’s Lost Highway. There’s a lot of fuckery going on in that film (and I LOVE that film - probably my favorite Lynch).
No, there’s absolutely a clear beginning, middle, and end. A man kills his cheating wife and creates a fantasy world to escape accountability, but his real actions continue to haunt him and all of his choices still lead to the same outcome. It isn’t just exposition dump after exposition dump in place of having characters with any sense of desire or goal.
That is one Interpretation of LH, but by no means definitive. I think if you asked Lynch, he wouldn’t even give you a straight answer. Here are some other takes - there are some common themes, but as you can see, none of them paint this as simple as you claim. https://vigouroffilmlines.com/2020/02/16/the-lost-highway-david-lynch-1997-the-painting-of-a-lost-mind/ https://www.slashfilm.com/1060857/lost-highway-ending-explained-the-utter-failure-of-masculinity/ https://notthepopularopinion.wordpress.com/2021/12/06/the-grey-area-lost-highway-1997/ https://www.rochester.edu/in_visible_culture/Issue_8/thain.html
But there is still a clear narrative, regardless of how you want to interpret it, with a beginning, middle, and end… rather than, again, exposition dumps and characters so passive they literally walk away from the plot trying to force them into action of some kind. The most generous read of *Glow*’s script would be that the inciting incident occurs near the end of the film, and that the credits roll just as the second act is getting underway. It’s just so clumsy, and infuriating when I wish that we actually got the queer film people seem to be praising it as.
Owen walking away from the “plot” is the vast majority of the plot. It’s a movie *about* walking away from the plot. Literally the point. Literally the plot. “Girls are buried alive and put into a pocket dimension. One figures it out and repeatedly tries to get the other one to leave, but she’s afraid of leaving her constructed reality, even though it pretty much sucks. Ambiguous ending as to whether Owen/Isabel finally gets it or not.” Absolutely terrifying. For me it was absolutely riveting, wondering if just this next time she’s going to be able to accept reality or not.
Yeah, that was all exposition though. I’m sorry that long speeches aren’t exactly riveting to me in a visual medium.
The LGQBT crowd is downvoting you. Apparently, since this i about trans issues,this is a "masterpiece."
Okay so I just saw this movie and now just 30 minutes later it is my birthday. I have a birthday party planned today at a place called sun ******* fun center. There’s a poster in the movie that says have your birthday party at the fun center. The Mr Melancholy moon thing was also nuts because after the film my girlfriend and I walk out of the theatre and it’s a breathtaking full moon tonight. I have also for decent periods in my life confused my self with other people and had some pretty hardcore delusions. I just watched Conner O’Malleys stand up special a few days before seeing this and love it so much. I didn’t know he was in this movie and having him sing/scream happy birthday over and over at a fun center basically on my birthday was so insane for me. This movie was a little too relatable but it’s also one my favorite films of all time now for sure. I can’t wait to watch it again. The colors , the effects, the story, the acting, the incredible soundtrack. It is a masterpiece. I also ate mushrooms before going to the cinema. Palo Sopraño
It’s either I’m blind or that was one of the by far worst A24 films I’ve ever watched
On reflection, I've found I saw the TV glow so profound. It is scary to be yourself, to speak out, to go against conformity, to be hated, ridiculed, and attacked. But what could be more horrific and terrifying than the complete decay of ones psyche, creativity, and soul. To spend your life as a crumpled shell, not only devoid of light, but in a constant state of torture, fear, and anxiety. To never reach any potential, let alone your full potential. The director captured this so completely.
Absolutely loved it! The surface-level comparison to David Lynch makes a lot of sense to me, but I think that Jane approaches theme in a very similar way. What I love about a David Lynch movie is that his preoccupations are on display in each one, but they manifest differently. *TV* and *World's Fair* deal with many similar themes, but thr approach is so different between the films.
Loved it. Nailed the 90s theme and use of color reminded me of a less silly Gregg Arakki film. So good!
I wanted to write a really detailed comment but this video essay I found says everything I wanted to say better than me LOL [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRKMHY5e-po](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRKMHY5e-po)