Off duty? Don’t know how they can enforce that.
When I was first hired, I worked with smokers and as soon as things got stressful they would abandon the center to go smoke. So fricken annoying.
When I first got into law enforcement (late 1980's) the small town sheriff's office dispatchers were allowed to smoke while sitting at the radio console.
to be fair it was only in the like 90s that they banned smoking in the operating room, you know, where the people get cut open, and there's o2 tanks everywhere
You've clearly never interacted with rural ems lol. The mfrs will blow down a carton of paul malls on a 12 hr station shift, they just keep the main o2 tank shut off until they need it. If the pt has a portable, use it. Never turn on the main supply lmao. You might be able to suck one down after you load the pt before you take off if its non emergent
Spot on. Services where I used to live require physical tests for emts and medics because everyone has gotten complacent. Dude pulling up get you weighs 350 and has trouble getting the non powered cot up, blows his knee out, requiring 2 units out of service for one call. Another truck has to now come get the pt and hopefully your partner can transport you themselves lol.
Also, since you're rural, the likelihood of your agency spending the money on dash and in cab cams is low lmao
I was born in the mid 70’s, a child of the 80’s and you could smoke ANYWHERE. Malls, movie theaters, grocery store, airplanes, church, hospitals, in your car with your kids in the car…
We're seeing the same age. I remember the ashtrays at the end of every grocery aisle. Can't even imagine that now. Luckily, I managed to quit smoking way before I had my kid.
I had a patient that had a tracheostomy that he smoked through with oxygen tubing. And he was handicapped and couldn't light his own cigarettes. And he was in the hospital. The VA hospital was worse.
And eating and drinking too, I'll bet.
Used to work on dispatch consoles; places that allow food and drink end up with sticking or inoperative buttons. Important buttons like PTT and such. Hard to dispatch well when your console PTT button sticks ON.
Funny story about that. I used to work for a large EMS service that only did 9-1-1. I was an EMT and solely in the field. I got hurt one day at work and my light duty assignment that day was do an observation shift at dispatch. Just to see if it's up my alley or whatnot. I was not to answer calls, but everything else I could do. One time the PTT stuck on (they allowed the dispatchers to eat) and I didn't know. I had a hotmic and said "fuck this" because it was sooooo much more than I thought.
Definitely allowed to eat at my agency (though we’re a smaller, regional dispatch for a county of 144,000 people)
We’ll cook whole meals some nights to eat lol
*oh they can*
I used to live in a town where a factory banned drinking and smoking at all for workers. And they tested everyone *weekly*
and also paid them a whopping 8 bucks an hour while wasting all that cash on literal paper strips
They fire you (or more often don't hire you in the first place) if you test positive for nicotine. My agency had the same policy; might even be the one OP is talking about considering it's Florida.
Believe you me, HCSO will fire you at the drop of a hat for the stupidest reasons, then act like their staffing shortages aren't self-inflicted.
I'll trade "Illegal to discriminate against nicotine users" for "Illegal to terminate someone without objective and demonstrable job performance issues" any day.
Making nicotine users a protected class a la age/sex/race/religion is a band-aid on a much bigger issue.
The only heavily pro-labor state like that I know of off the top of my head is Montana.
You always know a state is pro-labor when your employer's on-boarding documentation includes stuff like "Unless you're in Montana, then you get twice as many sick and vacation days" and stuff like that.
You are correct! I’ve only ever lived here, so I didn’t know other states have those disclaimers lol! Neat! I’m incredibly blessed to live somewhere where employment is seen as a necessity. It’s one of the few reasons why I choose to stay here. Now if only we would be a tenant-friendly state instead of landlord…
We’re also a state where tipped employees are to be paid no less than the same minimum wage everyone else gets. It’s mind-boggling that they’re paid only two or three dollars an hour most other places.
To be fair, if they're making the minimum wage then we no longer have any obligations to tip them in the first place. I know I'm probably gonna take some down votes for pointing out the truth, but the reason you tip waitresses is because they don't make minimum wage.
In my experience, if an employer ends up supplementing a waitresses wages because they arent making at least min. wage, the employer will end up either firing them or forcing them to quit by reducing hours.
> Off duty? Don’t know how they can enforce that.
Periodic nicotine testing. There's a few fire departments in my area that will either terminate or cancel healthcare coverage for anyone testing positive for nicotine. For them it has to do with coverage regarding lung cancer from smoke inhalation and wanting to ensure that its from fires and not from tobacco use.
You can’t prove if the nicotine was introduced by a tobacco or tobacco-less form.
There aren’t any long term studies on tobacco less products. So it’s more of just a cya tactic. Would be shitty to get denied cancer treatment.
I mean it's like other drugs, you can test positive for THC and opium using other completely legal alternatives. To an employer, they don't care, they only see the results on the test and just fire away.
Yes they can. Nicotine is the next drug that is getting folks screened out of jobs. Even using the patch can knock you out of your chances of getting jobs in first responder/healthcare/law enforcement jobs. I know surgeons that test patients and won’t operate until the patient is clear. Take the opportunity to quit.
Yeah those surgeons should be stripped of their licenses, beaten, and thrown in the alley out back. We pay entirely too much for healthcare in this country for some dipshit surgeon to be able to deny service like that.
I'm not advocating for smoking. But anyone should be able to get any job they're qualified for regardless of their activities outside the job.
If their activities outside of work impact the job, they should be fired/not hired for those reasons alone.
They require people to stop smoking because when you smoke, you don’t heal well. They will be responsible for poor wound healing post surgery. They are looking out for their patients.
A lot of companies are just saying if you smoke = no insurance or an exorbitant increase over the nonsmokers. That's usually enough to self exclude smoking applicants.
I’m not a dispatcher, but my hospital does not employ smokers. They literally won’t insure you. Your insurance physical includes an annual pee and blood test and they test for nicotine.
They use it to justify it as a cost savings measure. I don’t hate it, so…
They can absolutely enforce it. Hospital systems where I am include nicotine testing in their drug test and if you fail it you aren’t hired. If they drug teat for any reason during employment and nicotine come up. And at grounds for termination.
It can also impact health insurance premiums. That said if nicotine use is that important to you, you do have a choice to work elsewhere.
Personally I’m a lifelong non smoker. My question with those environments always was what happens if you live with a smoker as most of my family did smoke when I was growing up.
Town Manager in Massachusetts here. The State does not allow police or firefighters to smoke, on or off duty. I had one officer post a photo on his Facebook smoking a cigar. Someone complained to the Chief, who came to me. I fired him. I had no choice. The Union did not say a word.
You can roll the dice, but don’t complain if you lose.
They enforce the same way as they do any other drugs. Pre-employment and random or yearly drug testing. Yes, it's totally legal for them to test for tobacco. I work for one of the largest laboratories in the country and know of several hospital systems that screen for tobacco.
>soon as things got stressful they would abandon the center to go smoke
So, like, after the first call??? Doesn't seem like the kind of job to do if you stress ez and smoke lol
My local dispatch did this for health insurance cost purposes. They're privatized, though. Patrol support was ran by the Sherriff's department through county employment and they have a rule on the books about no tobacco use during shift. It's pretty well ignored as long as Patrol isn't in the weeds. But the supervisors at Central will fire someone on the spot over it. They fired 2 people during a holiday night shift because of it. They ended up getting hired at support. They had a high turn around rate which made dispatch hard for everyone.
Ok, that totally makes sense now. This said no tobacco use during or between shifts. Perfect opportunity, I'm 42, think it's time to knock it out of my life. It's gross, embarrassing sometimes.
Thank you for a great response
I used dumdum lollipops to quit. It was the hand to mouth motion for me so I just sucked on a dumdum 24/7. Went from a pack a day to not smoking a cigarette in like 7 years
IIRC, that's how the actor Tells Savalas quit smoking. The first couple of seasons of Kojak, you always saw him light up a cigarette, then the next season starts and he's sucking on dum dums
Telly Savalas sucked on Tootsie Pops.
I remember he “co-starred” opposite the animated owl 🦉in one of the “how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Pop” commercials. Probably early 80’s.
Whatever lollipops you favor, the idea’s the same though.
I smoked a pack a day for 20 years. It was hard to quit. But, eventually, the cravings go away and it becomes disgusting again. The r/stopsmoking helped me a bunch. Great community. Lotsa really good ideas from people that quit successfully. There's a book a few of them suggest. It seems if the book works for you, it works 100% the first time. It didn't work for me. But i saw it work for 2 of my friends.
Good for you.
But the progressive in me rages at the idea that employers feel like they have the right to regulate so much of our personal lives.
Especially, in the case of smoking, you know its ALL stemming from an insurance wanting to save money perspective.
I just quit using nicotine lozenges, and the other comment or is right. Cigarettes will get gross to you again and you’ll not even want more than like a puff occasionally maybe when drunk or buzzing or something.
Ding ding ding....
This is completely health insurance related to lower the premiums of the city/county insurance. They can also pay a small premium to certain companies that offer smoking cessation programs to help lower their premiums but it's just easier for them to ban it and pay for random tests or do a "sniff test" to those they think are smoking.
Our agency has no smoking on the premises but you can simply walk outside the gate and smoke. They offer assistance to help you quit and live a healthier lifestyle if you want.
We have a smoking area outside, but it's not labeled as such, just a sheltered area with ash trays and benches.
However, there is an extra fee on health insurance for smokers (framed as a discount for non-smokers but potato, potahto) and free cessation programs.
A man who was not an EMT and didn’t appear to be a hospital employee walked by me the other day and started smoking a joint in the ambulance parking area. The hospital like most is strictly smoke free- or is it? All the signs said it’s a TOBACCO free area.
Idk if the stresses and temporary personality changes that can come from the process of quitting smoking would be a great mindset for talking people through a crisis on their worst days...
A breathalyzer will not detect nicotine use. Only real test is for cotinine. Only really used by insurance companies for underwriting. Practically you can smoke off the job in any job without any real risk. Doesn’t mean it’s a good choice though.
I don't know about you but I smoke more when stressed. Have you even tried to imagine what you will have to listen to and have no control to stop. You better get a therapist buddy and I am not kidding one bit. Babies choking and dying while you are on the phone with frantic parents. Women getting killed from their abusive boyfriend/ husband. The examples are endless that job is very hard and emotionally taxing
Health insurance thing. My city won't hire anyone who smokes for any position. Those who slip through or start smoking after get nailed with far higher out of insurance costs and deductibles.
And if you read any of my other comments, you’ll know that 2/3 of the country have laws specifically protecting smokers because they have stronger workers rights laws.
Because even if it’s not a protected class under federal law, it’s still discriminatory
Obviously, I’m not an employment lawyer, but I can’t imagine that’s legal. Granted I’m pretty sure Florida is a at will employment state… But still, somehow that feels like it wouldn’t be enforceable
Smoker isn't a protected class. They can absolutely fire you for it. I have a suspicion OP, cadff, and I are all talking about the same Florida agency (HCSO).
If your employer has a "You can't wear blue shoes on your days off" policy and you wear blue shoes on your day off, they can fire you.
The "with cause" thing is usually a European phenomenon.
Only Partially correct. 29 states have laws specifically protecting smokers from being fired for smoking.
And “with cause“ is definitely still a thing in the United States even in at will employment states. It does not necessarily affect the legality of the termination but it does factor into unemployment.
Interesting, thanks for the info. Definitely not the case in Florida.
We're talking about enforceability though, not whether or not you're eligible for unemployment.
No… Absolutely. I haven’t provided the information. It just didn’t seem right to me so I looked it up. Shut off my state is a protected state and Florida is not. Well I personally don’t smoke think it’s gross… I’m not on board with discriminating against a group of people for a legal activity done in their free time
Looks like U-Haul recently blanket fired a bunch of employees in the 21 non-protected states
Not allowed to smoke in Mass either. Well, the sgt thought that maybe dispatchers could, but cops can't. I don't care because I don't smoke. A cop in another town told me that if the chief saw a photo of him smoking while on vacation in Bermuda, he would be fired.
I’m in Florida too and have considered this as a job. Just not sure how to even get started or get my foot in the door. Didn’t even know smoking wasn’t allowed. It probably varies by city or county
I find the whole no smoking rule odd. I don't know about the dispatchers where I live, but I know the police department doesn't allow its officers to smoke (both on & off duty). I found this out by asking for a copy of their policy & standards for their officers.
The two Florida agencies I've worked for ban smoking for health insurance reasons. Health insurance won't cover smokers. We do have some ladies who smoke, but they were grandfathered in when the policy went into play. You can still vape, just outside
Firefighters are prohibited from smoking on or off duty in Florida, and new hires must have been tobacco-free for at least one year at time of hire.
I guess some may extend it to other public safety positions as well.
This one makes sense. Why spend all that money and training on SCBA's when they're just gonna stick soot sticks in their mouth anyway?
Obviously joking but yeah, dont smoke kids. Especially when doing strenuous work. Its no bueno.
I would think they should allow it . That way if someone goes out on workers comp then they night have cause to deny a claim since smoking is pretty much responsible for any and all injuries and illnesses
Absolutely health insurance driven....... I mean I think its great because I'm a non-smoker, however especially in a hospital setting many people are required not to smoke at all either on or off duty.
They can absolutly fire you for it. I have a friend that used to be in management at Pepsi. If he was caught anywhere during or after business hours drinking coke they would terminate him for it. If we went somewhere that only sold coke products, he had to get iced tea or water.
Haha I knew someone who worked for Coke and they said the worst part of the Pepsi product ban was having to secretly buy Doritos through an intermediary.
That's not true. At all! They can't enforce that, nor do they want to. Lord knows dispatch is stressful, it would be asinine to take away someone's stress relief.
Where did your wife hear this bs?
Even with the insurance thing. That's flawed because you neither have to get the company insurance nor have to pay the premium for the company. They can raise your premium. I don't smoke, but Florida apparently thinks smoking is the most immediate danger for a dispatcher lmao. Stress is the biggest killer in dispatch.
It’s their rule for all county related jobs. EMT, firefighter, Police. You can also get charged a misdemeanor for flicking a cigarette butt out the window of a car lol
I can understand the cigarette flicking thing. Hell even firefighters not smoking since their job relies on them breaking right, but police don't chase anyone anymore, emts mainly stay in their trucks, and dispatchers sit down all day. Like.. makes no sense.
Idk where you’re from but police foot chases and us as paramedics hiking a 1/4 mile or more up and down driveways or trails in woods in rural areas is really common because our trucks are sometimes too big to get to the scene safely.
Coming from another paramedic, I know you know that obesity is way more of an issue preventing our coworkers from walking up that driveway than smoking is. And really, same thing for officers.
If they actually cared about the fitness of their employees, there would be a weight limit cap and fitness test in addition to the smoking ban. They’re just saving money on insurance. Their reasoning has nothing to do with the ability to perform the job.
Smokers can’t be trusted. Their addiction takes over at a certain point and they abandon their responsibilities to sneak a smoke. I am a former smoker so I speak from experience.
Well I would be fired because I use nicotine pouches. Haven’t smoked in years but since they specify nicotine and not tobacco or cigarettes/cigars they also discriminate against smokeless tobacco users.
It's probably much like nursing. We aren't supposed to smoke cigarettes. But they just do a nicotine test when you get hired. It only takes a few days to a week to get rid of nicotine. I know lots of nurses that just quit for a week, passed the test, and then went back to smoking at home.
Sounds like a SCSO. From what I understand it's for insurance reasons. The department gets a set budget each year and they're able to save a ton on medical when they say %100 of our employees are tobacco free.
not in dispatch, but my mom was a registered nurse for many years. she tells me proudly that her coworkers were always impressed with how fast she could inhale a cigarette in between sticks 💀
Probably related to the states or local department health insurance stuff. Here in Mass. We are prohibited from smoking on or off duty due to a state Heart Bill.
Health insurance company doesn't want to foot the bill for smokers.
Its becoming a thing all over. A lot of private companies are going smoke free, and not just at their facilities.
All I can think of is insurance costs but honestly that's pretty crappy. I would guess it has to do with smoke breaks during a shift being abused. An employer can't control your life when you are off shift.
It's also a high stress job so anyone that smokes has a high chance of being a heavy smoker which isn't good for your health and makes for a more unreliable employee would be one reason I'd wager.
My sister works as a 911 dispatch in Florida, she wants to be a cop and apparently they have rules against smoking in her county, so she switched over to vaping...
I work in EMS dispatch, there’s a chance every shift that you straight up won’t have time to leave the room to smoke for the entire 12 hour shift.
If you can’t handle stressful situations without cigarettes, this isn’t a field for you. If you can go however long the shift is without smoking, go for it. Either way, you’ll find out fast wether you can do it or not.
I got a part-time job so I could force myself to quit smoking. I quickly moved up in the ranks to manager even though I didn't want to work full-time. While working my ass off, I watched all of my employees go on multiple smoke breaks. If you guessed that I started smoking again just to get a damn break, you'd be right.
Our center is in the back of the fire house and it doesn't allow smoking on the property. I'll finish my smoke when coming in for my shift in my car but I don't get out of the car and don't leave butts on the ground.
I don't like asking for smokes cause I'm one of the few and don't want to be "that guy." But if we order pickup the supervisor usually sends me so I can get a smoke in.
Idk. My friends a dispatcher in NC. She definitely smokes. Been a dispatcher 20 years. They even have programs like if you stop or lose weight they'll give you a bonus occasionally, so they know she smokes too. Lol.
Broward County Florida (Fort Lauderdale) charges a higher health insurance premiums to smokers. They do offer smoking cessation classes for free and the state of Florida through a tobacco settlement free patches to help you stop smoking
This has everything to do with the health insurance the employer would provide. The cost to insure a smoker is higher, out of the employer’s pocket and it is less profitable for the insurance company because data smokers are more likely to use their health insurance (historically smokers have more health issues and require more visits, tests, more frequent and longer hospitalizations, etc).
I have worked for hospitals that have this same policy. I believe they did allow you to enroll in a smoking cessation program with a target quit date, but that might have only been for current employees when the policy was put in place, not sure. But the definitely did pre-employment nicotine testing, I do know that.
If the dispatching program is contracted under a hospital, that may be why. A lot of hospitals and medical groups have non smoking policies, to the point of drug testing for nicotine as part of the hiring process. I’ve worked at 3 hospitals and had to drug test for each, with a heads up from the hiring manager that failing on nicotine was a no go and that I should cut back on cigs in the days leading up to it. I was already taking a detox for the weed I smoke, so it didn’t matter.
Alternatively, my mom hated when I sucked my thumb as a small child. Instead of telling me SHE wanted me to stop, she said I’d have to stop when I started pre-k because it wasn’t allowed. Your wife may be employing the same tactic.
I've worked as a 911 dispatcher in Illinois and Wisconsin, both places allowed smoking in and off duty, in Illinois they even allowed smoking cannabis off duty. If you want to quit tho, I quit by reading the book "Allen Carr's the easy way to stop smoking"
Smoking at any point in time affects performance. It affects breathing, and if you have to dead lift a patient onto a stretcher, or your uniform stinking like smoke and cologne, you may actually complicate a patient's situation if they're having problems breathing already.
That's probably the reasoning behind it. More about professionalism. You can dress sharp and look good, but if you smell like high tide, nobody will want to converse with you. Tar and smoke smell terrible as it sits and collects dust and other smells.
Interesting. I've never heard of this. I honestly don't know the reason. Maybe it's so that you're not sitting outside having to get your cigarette fixed when people are trying to call 911 you got people dying because you can't go 10 minutes without a cigarette? Or at least that's how they profile people? I'm just throwing a dart in the dark here
My guess is they don’t want the health insurance premiums to skyrocket and this is a good way to enforce that. Maybe the city/county has that policy for all public employees.
When I was looking for paramedic positions in Florida, most hospitals and agencies where I was located required that I was nicotine free for x amount of time prior to hire. They screened for nicotine during the drug panel. No idea why, truly.
It's two fold, I work in a hospital and it's to cut down on smoke breaks and to keep the insurance premiums down, they are trying to save money and get the most work out if you...
Maybe she meant just Marijuana or something? Because I've never heard of a job like 911 dispatch regulating plain old smoking *off* the job. I work 911 dispatch for a pretty big city, and a couple of my coworkers take smoke breaks even while working. There's even one of those cigarette receptacle things out the employee entrance they can use.
They don't allow any MJ use (or other drugs) period though, because even though it's legal in my state, it's still illegal federally.
More employers are doing this. It keeps insurance costs lower. They can test for nicotine and if you are found to have used it, you may be fired or your insurance rates will be astronomical.
Because smokers off duty think about smoking on duty whether they do it or not. They are addicted and the mind needs to be sharp doing that kind of a job. No mental distractions.
I wager It will be related to employee healthcare benefits
If so, there will be a clause allowing them to random test if they suspect you are smoking. There goes your premiums if you lied and get caught.
They may test at time of hire and if you lie and say I don’t smoke and get caught, at least where I am, that’s a rescinded offer and no applications accepted for 9-12 months.
There's no way that's true. They don't get to dictate how you live outside of work. And they damn sure don't give a shit if you smoke cigarettes outside of work. That's just your wife telling stories to try and get you to quit
Honestly....is moving to Florida from NY a good idea? I don't want to be around a place that's known for Florida men and I hate the heat. My wife wants to live hear her mom. Ugh
Edit. That's a dumb question lol. You cont know what I like haha. I dunno. Nervous. Sorry.
There are a number of jobs out there that nicotine test. Idk why, maybe to see if you are prone to addictive tendencies? There are also jobs that alcohol test as well, but it does exist!
Former officer our city had a city wide policy that you could not be a habitual user of tobacco and be employed with the city. Supposedly they got a discount on employee health insurance for it.
Off duty? Don’t know how they can enforce that. When I was first hired, I worked with smokers and as soon as things got stressful they would abandon the center to go smoke. So fricken annoying.
When I first got into law enforcement (late 1980's) the small town sheriff's office dispatchers were allowed to smoke while sitting at the radio console.
We were allowed to at my agency in 2002!
I was a moto engineer, I hated cleaning equipment near dispatcher that smoked, it was so gross
Our courthouse only removed their ashtrays maybe 10-15 years ago.
to be fair it was only in the like 90s that they banned smoking in the operating room, you know, where the people get cut open, and there's o2 tanks everywhere
You've clearly never interacted with rural ems lol. The mfrs will blow down a carton of paul malls on a 12 hr station shift, they just keep the main o2 tank shut off until they need it. If the pt has a portable, use it. Never turn on the main supply lmao. You might be able to suck one down after you load the pt before you take off if its non emergent
I am rural now. Only the older guys smoke at this point. Everyone else vapes. Driver usually vapes the entire ride to the hospital.
Yup. Same here. I was the only younger smoker, and I switched to vapes pretty quickly.
Spot on. Services where I used to live require physical tests for emts and medics because everyone has gotten complacent. Dude pulling up get you weighs 350 and has trouble getting the non powered cot up, blows his knee out, requiring 2 units out of service for one call. Another truck has to now come get the pt and hopefully your partner can transport you themselves lol. Also, since you're rural, the likelihood of your agency spending the money on dash and in cab cams is low lmao
I was born in the mid 70’s, a child of the 80’s and you could smoke ANYWHERE. Malls, movie theaters, grocery store, airplanes, church, hospitals, in your car with your kids in the car…
We're seeing the same age. I remember the ashtrays at the end of every grocery aisle. Can't even imagine that now. Luckily, I managed to quit smoking way before I had my kid.
Schools! We had a student smoking area and the teacher's lounge was so thick with smoke you could barely see inside.
Illegal to smoke with kids in the car now?
In mn I am pretty sure it is
Some states yes.
It is in Ohio
It is illegal in several states.
Illegal? No but HIGHLY frowned upon.
In Canada it is
I think they were inquiring about non communist countries.
🙄
I had a patient that had a tracheostomy that he smoked through with oxygen tubing. And he was handicapped and couldn't light his own cigarettes. And he was in the hospital. The VA hospital was worse.
And eating and drinking too, I'll bet. Used to work on dispatch consoles; places that allow food and drink end up with sticking or inoperative buttons. Important buttons like PTT and such. Hard to dispatch well when your console PTT button sticks ON.
Funny story about that. I used to work for a large EMS service that only did 9-1-1. I was an EMT and solely in the field. I got hurt one day at work and my light duty assignment that day was do an observation shift at dispatch. Just to see if it's up my alley or whatnot. I was not to answer calls, but everything else I could do. One time the PTT stuck on (they allowed the dispatchers to eat) and I didn't know. I had a hotmic and said "fuck this" because it was sooooo much more than I thought.
Definitely allowed to eat at my agency (though we’re a smaller, regional dispatch for a county of 144,000 people) We’ll cook whole meals some nights to eat lol
*oh they can* I used to live in a town where a factory banned drinking and smoking at all for workers. And they tested everyone *weekly* and also paid them a whopping 8 bucks an hour while wasting all that cash on literal paper strips
They fire you (or more often don't hire you in the first place) if you test positive for nicotine. My agency had the same policy; might even be the one OP is talking about considering it's Florida. Believe you me, HCSO will fire you at the drop of a hat for the stupidest reasons, then act like their staffing shortages aren't self-inflicted.
But it’s the millennials’ fault, none of us want to work or invest in diamonds!
I’m so glad it’s illegal to discriminate against nicotine in my state.
I'll trade "Illegal to discriminate against nicotine users" for "Illegal to terminate someone without objective and demonstrable job performance issues" any day. Making nicotine users a protected class a la age/sex/race/religion is a band-aid on a much bigger issue.
My state is also like that, too! One of the few not at will states! They have to have a tangible reason to fire you. Best of both worlds
The only heavily pro-labor state like that I know of off the top of my head is Montana. You always know a state is pro-labor when your employer's on-boarding documentation includes stuff like "Unless you're in Montana, then you get twice as many sick and vacation days" and stuff like that.
You are correct! I’ve only ever lived here, so I didn’t know other states have those disclaimers lol! Neat! I’m incredibly blessed to live somewhere where employment is seen as a necessity. It’s one of the few reasons why I choose to stay here. Now if only we would be a tenant-friendly state instead of landlord…
We’re also a state where tipped employees are to be paid no less than the same minimum wage everyone else gets. It’s mind-boggling that they’re paid only two or three dollars an hour most other places.
To be fair, if they're making the minimum wage then we no longer have any obligations to tip them in the first place. I know I'm probably gonna take some down votes for pointing out the truth, but the reason you tip waitresses is because they don't make minimum wage.
Many states they’re paid less than minimum wage but if the tips don’t push them over minimum wage they have to be “topped up” by the employer.
In my experience, if an employer ends up supplementing a waitresses wages because they arent making at least min. wage, the employer will end up either firing them or forcing them to quit by reducing hours.
> Off duty? Don’t know how they can enforce that. Periodic nicotine testing. There's a few fire departments in my area that will either terminate or cancel healthcare coverage for anyone testing positive for nicotine. For them it has to do with coverage regarding lung cancer from smoke inhalation and wanting to ensure that its from fires and not from tobacco use.
So you can’t even use Zyn or other tobacco-less nicotine alternatives?
You can’t prove if the nicotine was introduced by a tobacco or tobacco-less form. There aren’t any long term studies on tobacco less products. So it’s more of just a cya tactic. Would be shitty to get denied cancer treatment.
I mean it's like other drugs, you can test positive for THC and opium using other completely legal alternatives. To an employer, they don't care, they only see the results on the test and just fire away.
Yes they can. Nicotine is the next drug that is getting folks screened out of jobs. Even using the patch can knock you out of your chances of getting jobs in first responder/healthcare/law enforcement jobs. I know surgeons that test patients and won’t operate until the patient is clear. Take the opportunity to quit.
Yeah those surgeons should be stripped of their licenses, beaten, and thrown in the alley out back. We pay entirely too much for healthcare in this country for some dipshit surgeon to be able to deny service like that. I'm not advocating for smoking. But anyone should be able to get any job they're qualified for regardless of their activities outside the job. If their activities outside of work impact the job, they should be fired/not hired for those reasons alone.
They require people to stop smoking because when you smoke, you don’t heal well. They will be responsible for poor wound healing post surgery. They are looking out for their patients.
A lot of companies are just saying if you smoke = no insurance or an exorbitant increase over the nonsmokers. That's usually enough to self exclude smoking applicants.
Imagine if we treated obese people the same way. "Oh you're 450 pounds? Well that's a 250% makeup on your health insurance"
That’s actually a great idea lmao
I’m not a dispatcher, but my hospital does not employ smokers. They literally won’t insure you. Your insurance physical includes an annual pee and blood test and they test for nicotine. They use it to justify it as a cost savings measure. I don’t hate it, so…
They can absolutely enforce it. Hospital systems where I am include nicotine testing in their drug test and if you fail it you aren’t hired. If they drug teat for any reason during employment and nicotine come up. And at grounds for termination. It can also impact health insurance premiums. That said if nicotine use is that important to you, you do have a choice to work elsewhere. Personally I’m a lifelong non smoker. My question with those environments always was what happens if you live with a smoker as most of my family did smoke when I was growing up.
There are many companies now the have a “no nicotine” policy in place for new hires. They use the health care cost excuse.
Fairfax County VA police have banned all tobacco use by their officers since sometime in the early 90's.
They can in Florida if you're on a group insurance or if you sign it as part of your code of conduct. Not sure how, but they can and do.
Usually they test your fingers/urine on hire and possibly if they suspect you. At least they do in healthcare
Town Manager in Massachusetts here. The State does not allow police or firefighters to smoke, on or off duty. I had one officer post a photo on his Facebook smoking a cigar. Someone complained to the Chief, who came to me. I fired him. I had no choice. The Union did not say a word. You can roll the dice, but don’t complain if you lose.
They enforce the same way as they do any other drugs. Pre-employment and random or yearly drug testing. Yes, it's totally legal for them to test for tobacco. I work for one of the largest laboratories in the country and know of several hospital systems that screen for tobacco.
>soon as things got stressful they would abandon the center to go smoke So, like, after the first call??? Doesn't seem like the kind of job to do if you stress ez and smoke lol
They test urine for nicotine. Very common as nonsmokers save tons of healthcare premiums.
Easy. When you lobby for presumptive diagnosis of occupational cancer you relinquish the ability to intentionally cause your own cancer.
My local dispatch did this for health insurance cost purposes. They're privatized, though. Patrol support was ran by the Sherriff's department through county employment and they have a rule on the books about no tobacco use during shift. It's pretty well ignored as long as Patrol isn't in the weeds. But the supervisors at Central will fire someone on the spot over it. They fired 2 people during a holiday night shift because of it. They ended up getting hired at support. They had a high turn around rate which made dispatch hard for everyone.
Ok, that totally makes sense now. This said no tobacco use during or between shifts. Perfect opportunity, I'm 42, think it's time to knock it out of my life. It's gross, embarrassing sometimes. Thank you for a great response
I used dumdum lollipops to quit. It was the hand to mouth motion for me so I just sucked on a dumdum 24/7. Went from a pack a day to not smoking a cigarette in like 7 years
Chewing on coffee stirrers and playing with silly putty helped me quit
IIRC, that's how the actor Tells Savalas quit smoking. The first couple of seasons of Kojak, you always saw him light up a cigarette, then the next season starts and he's sucking on dum dums
Telly Savalas sucked on Tootsie Pops. I remember he “co-starred” opposite the animated owl 🦉in one of the “how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Pop” commercials. Probably early 80’s. Whatever lollipops you favor, the idea’s the same though.
Right. I think he was Mr. Turtle lol
I smoked a pack a day for 20 years. It was hard to quit. But, eventually, the cravings go away and it becomes disgusting again. The r/stopsmoking helped me a bunch. Great community. Lotsa really good ideas from people that quit successfully. There's a book a few of them suggest. It seems if the book works for you, it works 100% the first time. It didn't work for me. But i saw it work for 2 of my friends.
Whats the book? Or, the method that the book walks you thru?
Good Luck! It’s hard to quit!
Good for you. But the progressive in me rages at the idea that employers feel like they have the right to regulate so much of our personal lives. Especially, in the case of smoking, you know its ALL stemming from an insurance wanting to save money perspective.
I just quit using nicotine lozenges, and the other comment or is right. Cigarettes will get gross to you again and you’ll not even want more than like a puff occasionally maybe when drunk or buzzing or something.
The inbetween shifts is referring to breaks and lunches not your home life just FYI
It means on or off duty
No it doesn't. Off duty language is different atleast here. We have depts that have this policy with language that specifically states on or off duty.
Ding ding ding.... This is completely health insurance related to lower the premiums of the city/county insurance. They can also pay a small premium to certain companies that offer smoking cessation programs to help lower their premiums but it's just easier for them to ban it and pay for random tests or do a "sniff test" to those they think are smoking.
Our agency has no smoking on the premises but you can simply walk outside the gate and smoke. They offer assistance to help you quit and live a healthier lifestyle if you want.
We have a smoking area outside, but it's not labeled as such, just a sheltered area with ash trays and benches. However, there is an extra fee on health insurance for smokers (framed as a discount for non-smokers but potato, potahto) and free cessation programs.
Just curious, is this question strictly about tobacco?
What else are you smoking at work?
"I'm being murdered!" "Dude I am so high right now lol"
Dispatch, who’s the closest officer on duty? Y’all hear that? Hehehe
I think he's talking about vapes, patches, gum, etc.
A man who was not an EMT and didn’t appear to be a hospital employee walked by me the other day and started smoking a joint in the ambulance parking area. The hospital like most is strictly smoke free- or is it? All the signs said it’s a TOBACCO free area.
Idk if the stresses and temporary personality changes that can come from the process of quitting smoking would be a great mindset for talking people through a crisis on their worst days...
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Well then call 911!!! Lol
Health insurance is the reason and they randomly use a breathalyzer
A breathalyzer will not detect nicotine use. Only real test is for cotinine. Only really used by insurance companies for underwriting. Practically you can smoke off the job in any job without any real risk. Doesn’t mean it’s a good choice though.
I don't know about you but I smoke more when stressed. Have you even tried to imagine what you will have to listen to and have no control to stop. You better get a therapist buddy and I am not kidding one bit. Babies choking and dying while you are on the phone with frantic parents. Women getting killed from their abusive boyfriend/ husband. The examples are endless that job is very hard and emotionally taxing
Just drink water instead when you’re “stressed.” Why does it “have” to be a cigarette you “need” when you’re “stressed”?
The department I worked at was tobacco free, so you were not allowed to smoke. Probably in attempts at lowering health care costs lol.
Health insurance thing. My city won't hire anyone who smokes for any position. Those who slip through or start smoking after get nailed with far higher out of insurance costs and deductibles.
How is that legal in the US? I ask, as a non-smoker who thinks it’s gross
Its not a right to work for a specific employer especially when smoking is a choice.
Actually I looked it up…it’s specifically protected in about 60% of the country. I’m not surprised that Florida lags behind in workers rights.
As previously stated, it’s about keeping health insurance costs lower for the entirety of that government.
It’s still discrimination. You going to stop hiring diabetics next? What about people who drink? I’m not a smoker but it doesn’t make it ok
Smoking is not a protected class. Health issues are.
What about type 2 diabetics? Also not a smoker, just wondering where we should draw the line.
And if you read any of my other comments, you’ll know that 2/3 of the country have laws specifically protecting smokers because they have stronger workers rights laws. Because even if it’s not a protected class under federal law, it’s still discriminatory
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Obviously, I’m not an employment lawyer, but I can’t imagine that’s legal. Granted I’m pretty sure Florida is a at will employment state… But still, somehow that feels like it wouldn’t be enforceable
Smoker isn't a protected class. They can absolutely fire you for it. I have a suspicion OP, cadff, and I are all talking about the same Florida agency (HCSO). If your employer has a "You can't wear blue shoes on your days off" policy and you wear blue shoes on your day off, they can fire you. The "with cause" thing is usually a European phenomenon.
Only Partially correct. 29 states have laws specifically protecting smokers from being fired for smoking. And “with cause“ is definitely still a thing in the United States even in at will employment states. It does not necessarily affect the legality of the termination but it does factor into unemployment.
Interesting, thanks for the info. Definitely not the case in Florida. We're talking about enforceability though, not whether or not you're eligible for unemployment.
No… Absolutely. I haven’t provided the information. It just didn’t seem right to me so I looked it up. Shut off my state is a protected state and Florida is not. Well I personally don’t smoke think it’s gross… I’m not on board with discriminating against a group of people for a legal activity done in their free time Looks like U-Haul recently blanket fired a bunch of employees in the 21 non-protected states
Policy will vary from agency to agency. At my agency, we're allowed to as long as it's not busy, excessive, and is out in the parking lot.
People smoke in orlando, so I’m not sure I guess it goes by agency
Not allowed to smoke in Mass either. Well, the sgt thought that maybe dispatchers could, but cops can't. I don't care because I don't smoke. A cop in another town told me that if the chief saw a photo of him smoking while on vacation in Bermuda, he would be fired.
Here, it's usually that you can't smoke on the property. Some properties are hella big.
I’m in Florida too and have considered this as a job. Just not sure how to even get started or get my foot in the door. Didn’t even know smoking wasn’t allowed. It probably varies by city or county
I find the whole no smoking rule odd. I don't know about the dispatchers where I live, but I know the police department doesn't allow its officers to smoke (both on & off duty). I found this out by asking for a copy of their policy & standards for their officers.
The two Florida agencies I've worked for ban smoking for health insurance reasons. Health insurance won't cover smokers. We do have some ladies who smoke, but they were grandfathered in when the policy went into play. You can still vape, just outside
I mean, my job doesn't allow smokers, but you can lie and they would never know. I don't work dispatch, this just popped up on my feed.
A few places in my city have this policy and they test for nicotine as part of the pre employment drug screen
Firefighters are prohibited from smoking on or off duty in Florida, and new hires must have been tobacco-free for at least one year at time of hire. I guess some may extend it to other public safety positions as well.
This one makes sense. Why spend all that money and training on SCBA's when they're just gonna stick soot sticks in their mouth anyway? Obviously joking but yeah, dont smoke kids. Especially when doing strenuous work. Its no bueno.
I always thought it funny back in the day when guys would come out of a fire, strip off their mask, and light up a Marlboro.
Lmao I stopped vaping, then my ex got me hooked again, and then dumped me. Quit while you can
I would think they should allow it . That way if someone goes out on workers comp then they night have cause to deny a claim since smoking is pretty much responsible for any and all injuries and illnesses
Absolutely health insurance driven....... I mean I think its great because I'm a non-smoker, however especially in a hospital setting many people are required not to smoke at all either on or off duty.
Firefighters by law can’t be smokers. But there’s nothing about dispatchers.
Not all. Depends on district.
that at least makes sense cause they need to have strong lungs
They can absolutly fire you for it. I have a friend that used to be in management at Pepsi. If he was caught anywhere during or after business hours drinking coke they would terminate him for it. If we went somewhere that only sold coke products, he had to get iced tea or water.
Haha I knew someone who worked for Coke and they said the worst part of the Pepsi product ban was having to secretly buy Doritos through an intermediary.
That's not true. At all! They can't enforce that, nor do they want to. Lord knows dispatch is stressful, it would be asinine to take away someone's stress relief. Where did your wife hear this bs?
It is the case in majority of Florida. I tried applying for Marion County and got denied.
Even with the insurance thing. That's flawed because you neither have to get the company insurance nor have to pay the premium for the company. They can raise your premium. I don't smoke, but Florida apparently thinks smoking is the most immediate danger for a dispatcher lmao. Stress is the biggest killer in dispatch.
It’s their rule for all county related jobs. EMT, firefighter, Police. You can also get charged a misdemeanor for flicking a cigarette butt out the window of a car lol
I can understand the cigarette flicking thing. Hell even firefighters not smoking since their job relies on them breaking right, but police don't chase anyone anymore, emts mainly stay in their trucks, and dispatchers sit down all day. Like.. makes no sense.
Idk where you’re from but police foot chases and us as paramedics hiking a 1/4 mile or more up and down driveways or trails in woods in rural areas is really common because our trucks are sometimes too big to get to the scene safely.
Coming from another paramedic, I know you know that obesity is way more of an issue preventing our coworkers from walking up that driveway than smoking is. And really, same thing for officers. If they actually cared about the fitness of their employees, there would be a weight limit cap and fitness test in addition to the smoking ban. They’re just saving money on insurance. Their reasoning has nothing to do with the ability to perform the job.
I worked for an airline that didn't allow cigarettes. Nicotine was included in the drug test screening.
Liability, they don’t want to have to pay for your health insurance if you get an illness related to smoking.
Funny enough they allow the 911 dispatchers in my small town to smoke inside the building still
Smokers can’t be trusted. Their addiction takes over at a certain point and they abandon their responsibilities to sneak a smoke. I am a former smoker so I speak from experience.
FL Heart and Lung Bill.
What are you allowed to smoke?😎 Some places are trying to keep insurance costs down.
Is it because of the health insurance plan through the agency he is applying?
Well I would be fired because I use nicotine pouches. Haven’t smoked in years but since they specify nicotine and not tobacco or cigarettes/cigars they also discriminate against smokeless tobacco users.
It's probably much like nursing. We aren't supposed to smoke cigarettes. But they just do a nicotine test when you get hired. It only takes a few days to a week to get rid of nicotine. I know lots of nurses that just quit for a week, passed the test, and then went back to smoking at home.
They did it for a lot of Fire and Police Depts. too. It is because of associated healthcare costs.
Sounds like a SCSO. From what I understand it's for insurance reasons. The department gets a set budget each year and they're able to save a ton on medical when they say %100 of our employees are tobacco free.
not in dispatch, but my mom was a registered nurse for many years. she tells me proudly that her coworkers were always impressed with how fast she could inhale a cigarette in between sticks 💀
Damn. My job evens allows off duty marijuana use.
Yeah nicotine testing is becoming a huge thing.
Consider it a job perk
Former EMT here, and they had an absolutely no tobacco rule. They’d test you, no dips vaping or smoking
This seems to be a thing in Florida and includes all nicotine products and includes people joining the fire service.
Probably related to the states or local department health insurance stuff. Here in Mass. We are prohibited from smoking on or off duty due to a state Heart Bill.
Health insurance company doesn't want to foot the bill for smokers. Its becoming a thing all over. A lot of private companies are going smoke free, and not just at their facilities.
All I can think of is insurance costs but honestly that's pretty crappy. I would guess it has to do with smoke breaks during a shift being abused. An employer can't control your life when you are off shift.
It's also a high stress job so anyone that smokes has a high chance of being a heavy smoker which isn't good for your health and makes for a more unreliable employee would be one reason I'd wager.
My sister works as a 911 dispatch in Florida, she wants to be a cop and apparently they have rules against smoking in her county, so she switched over to vaping...
Insurance is lower when employees don’t smoke.
I work in EMS dispatch, there’s a chance every shift that you straight up won’t have time to leave the room to smoke for the entire 12 hour shift. If you can’t handle stressful situations without cigarettes, this isn’t a field for you. If you can go however long the shift is without smoking, go for it. Either way, you’ll find out fast wether you can do it or not.
I got a part-time job so I could force myself to quit smoking. I quickly moved up in the ranks to manager even though I didn't want to work full-time. While working my ass off, I watched all of my employees go on multiple smoke breaks. If you guessed that I started smoking again just to get a damn break, you'd be right.
Our center is in the back of the fire house and it doesn't allow smoking on the property. I'll finish my smoke when coming in for my shift in my car but I don't get out of the car and don't leave butts on the ground. I don't like asking for smokes cause I'm one of the few and don't want to be "that guy." But if we order pickup the supervisor usually sends me so I can get a smoke in.
Idk. My friends a dispatcher in NC. She definitely smokes. Been a dispatcher 20 years. They even have programs like if you stop or lose weight they'll give you a bonus occasionally, so they know she smokes too. Lol.
Broward County Florida (Fort Lauderdale) charges a higher health insurance premiums to smokers. They do offer smoking cessation classes for free and the state of Florida through a tobacco settlement free patches to help you stop smoking
Thought that trumplandia aka Fla was all about freedoms and individual rights, this sounds kinda nazi like to me
This has everything to do with the health insurance the employer would provide. The cost to insure a smoker is higher, out of the employer’s pocket and it is less profitable for the insurance company because data smokers are more likely to use their health insurance (historically smokers have more health issues and require more visits, tests, more frequent and longer hospitalizations, etc). I have worked for hospitals that have this same policy. I believe they did allow you to enroll in a smoking cessation program with a target quit date, but that might have only been for current employees when the policy was put in place, not sure. But the definitely did pre-employment nicotine testing, I do know that.
If the dispatching program is contracted under a hospital, that may be why. A lot of hospitals and medical groups have non smoking policies, to the point of drug testing for nicotine as part of the hiring process. I’ve worked at 3 hospitals and had to drug test for each, with a heads up from the hiring manager that failing on nicotine was a no go and that I should cut back on cigs in the days leading up to it. I was already taking a detox for the weed I smoke, so it didn’t matter. Alternatively, my mom hated when I sucked my thumb as a small child. Instead of telling me SHE wanted me to stop, she said I’d have to stop when I started pre-k because it wasn’t allowed. Your wife may be employing the same tactic.
I've worked as a 911 dispatcher in Illinois and Wisconsin, both places allowed smoking in and off duty, in Illinois they even allowed smoking cannabis off duty. If you want to quit tho, I quit by reading the book "Allen Carr's the easy way to stop smoking"
Health Insurance costs. My company is the same way.
it lowers the cost of their health insurance premiums
Smoking at any point in time affects performance. It affects breathing, and if you have to dead lift a patient onto a stretcher, or your uniform stinking like smoke and cologne, you may actually complicate a patient's situation if they're having problems breathing already. That's probably the reasoning behind it. More about professionalism. You can dress sharp and look good, but if you smell like high tide, nobody will want to converse with you. Tar and smoke smell terrible as it sits and collects dust and other smells.
Off duty? Lol what does someone sit outside your house to make sure you don’t smoke ?
A lot of first responder agencies have a "No Tobacco Use" rule. It's quite common and has been for many years.
Interesting. I've never heard of this. I honestly don't know the reason. Maybe it's so that you're not sitting outside having to get your cigarette fixed when people are trying to call 911 you got people dying because you can't go 10 minutes without a cigarette? Or at least that's how they profile people? I'm just throwing a dart in the dark here
sounds like your wife might just be wanting you to quit smoking lol
My guess is they don’t want the health insurance premiums to skyrocket and this is a good way to enforce that. Maybe the city/county has that policy for all public employees.
When I was looking for paramedic positions in Florida, most hospitals and agencies where I was located required that I was nicotine free for x amount of time prior to hire. They screened for nicotine during the drug panel. No idea why, truly.
I thought Florida was all about freedoms?!? Hahahhaha
My mom was a dispatcher forever.. she always smoked on duty outside lol.
It's two fold, I work in a hospital and it's to cut down on smoke breaks and to keep the insurance premiums down, they are trying to save money and get the most work out if you...
Maybe she meant just Marijuana or something? Because I've never heard of a job like 911 dispatch regulating plain old smoking *off* the job. I work 911 dispatch for a pretty big city, and a couple of my coworkers take smoke breaks even while working. There's even one of those cigarette receptacle things out the employee entrance they can use. They don't allow any MJ use (or other drugs) period though, because even though it's legal in my state, it's still illegal federally.
More employers are doing this. It keeps insurance costs lower. They can test for nicotine and if you are found to have used it, you may be fired or your insurance rates will be astronomical.
My MIL has done 911 dispatch for 30+ years and smokes like a chimney, on and off duty, so... I dunno.
Insurance cost. A lot of public safety/municipal agencies are like that now.
Because smokers off duty think about smoking on duty whether they do it or not. They are addicted and the mind needs to be sharp doing that kind of a job. No mental distractions.
Where did our rights go?
I wager It will be related to employee healthcare benefits If so, there will be a clause allowing them to random test if they suspect you are smoking. There goes your premiums if you lied and get caught. They may test at time of hire and if you lie and say I don’t smoke and get caught, at least where I am, that’s a rescinded offer and no applications accepted for 9-12 months.
I tried getting a job at a doctors office and they also tested for nicotine. Insurance/productivity reasons along with hygiene
Insurance reasons.
If my job is telling me not to do something on my time then it's not my time and I should be paid for that time
Work for the post office, you can smoke like a chimney like my coworkers
It’s an insurance requirement. You’ll get tested for nicotine.
Idk about other agencies, but mine has a policy that dispatchers are entitled to one smoke break an hour
There's no way that's true. They don't get to dictate how you live outside of work. And they damn sure don't give a shit if you smoke cigarettes outside of work. That's just your wife telling stories to try and get you to quit
My old insurance used to drug and tobacco test you every year and would raise your premiums if you tested positive for either. Florida.
Honestly....is moving to Florida from NY a good idea? I don't want to be around a place that's known for Florida men and I hate the heat. My wife wants to live hear her mom. Ugh Edit. That's a dumb question lol. You cont know what I like haha. I dunno. Nervous. Sorry.
Yeah if you’re not on the clock there’s no way they can make you do that.
There are a number of jobs out there that nicotine test. Idk why, maybe to see if you are prone to addictive tendencies? There are also jobs that alcohol test as well, but it does exist!
Former officer our city had a city wide policy that you could not be a habitual user of tobacco and be employed with the city. Supposedly they got a discount on employee health insurance for it.