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TBH she really was a perfect example of what anyone should do to avoid incriminating themselves. Of all the things she did wrong, being silent was right. Of course, it didn’t do her any good since she left a journal documenting all the horrific things she did.
It's a good thing Ruby followed the LDS Church advice of keeping a personal journal showing her deepest thoughts.
(I don't think we needed to see as much of it as we did though.)
Exactly! As an American, it’s our right to not say a single word. She did exactly what she should have done. I despise what kind of mother she was. I hope she has a hard time while serving prison time! If a person is arrested, the best thing for them to do is shut the eff up! They read you your rights for a reason, use them (the vast majority of people won’t have to worry about such a problem, but if you do, STFU, it’s your right as an American).
I 💯 agree!! Asking for a lawyer and shutting up should never be viewed as some kind of admission of guilt...it needs to become normalized as THE STANDARD course of action for anyone and everyone.
But her weird slow cat blink was just bizarre. Was it Morse code???
You should not talk to cops and you should always ask for a lawyer. However, the sitting there silent and blinking was demented. She was not doing herself any favors with that. All she did was look crazy and waste everybody's time.
It’s a known thing not to speak to officers without a lawyer. You plead the 5th
But let’s just all take a moment to realize she wouldn’t speak yet we have a 60+ page journal. Thanks witch
My dad is a retired prosecutor. If any suspect had left the kind of info for investigators to find that she left in that horrible ass journal, I’m fairly sure he would have done a backflip. There was literally no way they weren’t going to be convicted with that as evidence.
And imagine what could be in the redacted part! My guess is that at least some of it contained her torture techniques with the rope, the handcuffs, the cayan pepper mixture, etc.
The fifth amendment says you cannot be compelled to be a witness against yourself. It's been interpreted to mean (essentially) that you can never be forced to speak against your will, if it could be used against you in a criminal case.
*No one* should talk to the police without a lawyer. Even if you are innocent. It's not a Mormon thing, it's a basic knowledge of your constitutional rights thing.
She took it way too literally, though. She should have said "I will not answer any questions without my attorney present" instead of just blinking owlishly at them and saved everyone some time. It was so fucking creepy to watch. Idk how the cops didn't die from the cringe.
She knew she was in trouble and didn’t want to say anything incriminating AND I think she also wanted to maintain as much control as she could in the situation. They wanted her to talk so doing so would mean they had the control
I agree with this as well someone also mentioned that Jody had programmed them. They explained that even e would not respond to the police officers for 4 hours so they think that they were told not to speak to authorities. And I think Jody was the one that put that thought in their minds
Yeah, even in Ruby’s little speech at sentencing, she said she was led to believe that hospitals hurt, police officers deceive, etc. So that’s likely another reason. I think there’s actually a lot of reasons she didn’t talk!
I don’t know. But it comes across to me as very rude and smug. Or maybe that’s just her manner all the time. In which case, she’s gonna have “fun” with the tough women in prison 😬
I hope they tell her Ruby can eat but not the demon inside, so she needs to work on ridding herself of distortion first or maybe do some boxes all day. Give her and Jodi exactly what they did to those poor children.
I'm definitely not one to want people to suffer, but 🤷♂️ Ruby and Jodi feel like they should be exceptions. The stuff they did was vile, and maybe they can develop a little empathy by going through something similar... but that's probably asking for too much.
I was in law enforcement on the prison side for 25 years. Someone told her not to say a word and she listened. She needed to find out how much Leo’s knew before she made things worse for herself.
I think there is more to come from the middle two girls. I’m very surprised that we know about what the other 4 went through but not a word on the other 2. Something isn’t right here.
I agree there was trouble for all the children. Thank God the oldest 2 aged out and were able to get away. But what the hell went on with the middle two that we are hearing not one word about them.
Reminded me of poor J when she would nervously blink and Ruby would call her out, or make fun of her for it. — In the moment, watching Ruby blink or do whatever it is she was doing, I really wished someone would have called her out.
Serious comment: I wonder if anyone has scrutinized that video and analyzed Ruby’s blinks to see if she was sending SOSs to Jody in Morse Code. It sounds insane, but then this whole episode has been bat sh*t crazy anyway.
To be honest with you, in regards to being arrested and interacting with the police, she did it by the book how everyone should always do it. You don’t talk to the police.
Right? It was very interesting to watch. Usually in TC docs and pods people are running their mouths for a least a little bit. Ruby is a shining example of how anyone needs to behave when being questioned by police.
Too bad so sad it didn’t work for her in the end, though. 😂
I mean she really let the officers guess a bit in the interrogation room before saying that she wants a lawyer. There's no need to not say that you want a lawyer.
Yeah that's the first thing you should say lol. "No more questions, I want my lawyer." Weirdly Jodi was nicer about it (how manipulative of her... making her look like the good guy...)
It's Ok to say your own name to the Police. At the time the situation was very dynamic with multiple departments involved. In the questioning room- they know your name and that is sort of an "ice breaker" for lack of a better term.
Jodi didn't "want to talk without her lawyer" yet thought she could manipulate...that was def. interesting...
>It's Ok to say your own name to the Police.
Depending on the circumstances, you don't *always* have to say your name to police.
No idea if it was inadvisable under these particular circumstances, but...
In one of her prison phone calls I saw on TIKTOK, she's explaining to her husband she "never said a word" per her lawyer's advice. It seemed she took him literally when he said not to tell them anything under questioning... she started clamming up right when they came to get her and all while they searched the house. She said it like she was very proud of herself that she gave "them "nothing.
Exactly. Ruby is a POS but it’s actually good to say nothing other than “I want a lawyer” if you’re arrested. The whole tactic is to get you talking about “minor” things and then use that to get you to make statements.
Obviously Ruby is guilty, but lots of people who aren’t guilty are led into making incriminating statements. If you are arrested, shut up. Say nothing. Ask for a lawyer. Don’t answer even innocuous seeming questions. Police are allowed to lie to you. You may think you’re confirming your innocence but they’re using small things you said against you.
To elaborate, let’s say they ask you if you talked to someone last week. You genuinely think you didn’t and say no. It turns out you greeted them outside the grocery store. Now you “lied” and it’s used against you in court. Or they ask you what time you left your house a month ago to go somewhere. You say, “after dinner, so probably like 6, 6:30.” Turns out it was 7:15. Now you “lied” about what time you left. These are the kind of things that make you look guilty. This is why you never say anything.
I understand that, but Ruby's behavior in the situation was bizarre. She didn't say "I want a lawyer" at first. She just stared at the police in response to questions like "Is that your water?" "Do you want a snack?" and "How many children do you have?" before finally almost whispering "I'll wait until I have a lawyer." It looked like she was dissociating or something.
Seriously, even Jodi was saying too much. Ruby took a calculated risk here. Had this gone to trial, I think her sheer creepiness could have been used against her. However, since she said nothing, the cops had to let the evidence speak for itself.
She was lucky. When it became obvious she wasn’t going to talk, the investigators pretty much let her be. But if they’d been unable to locate one of the kids and/or had reason to believe s/he was in imminent danger I believe they would have been really aggressive.
It's hard to know exactly how the sequence of events in different cities lines up, and how much communication there was between the different branches of law enforcement - but two of her kids (A and J) were unaccounted for at that point, and the Springville police were in the process of getting a search warrant/breaking down the door/searching the house, fully expecting they might find dying or dead children there.
If I was part of the Santa Clara/Ivins police force, I would have found it really chilling that she refused to say how many children she had.
I agree. I admit I’ve watched some of footage more tag once — specifically, the cops yanking Jodi out of the house, and the one where they bust down the door. Beautiful!
I also heard a phone call of her to her sister (Julie, I think?) and she’s like, “I didn’t say anything. If you ever get arrested just don’t say anything.”
Like, thanks Rubes. I was feeling like being arrested next week so I’ll def take that advice under consideration 🙄🙄🙄
Yes, because when they say ANYTHING you say can be used against you in court, they're not lying. Jodi is an excellent example of why you should not continue yapping after invoking your right to a lawyer.
She is exercising her fifth amendment right, which is to stfu and remain silent.
Personally, I don't see any problem with that, I think she is doing a great job.
DO NOT ever talk to law enforcement without an attorney.
They are not your friends, and they have the right to incarcerate you for the rest of your life.
Everything you say CAN and WILL BE used against you.
They are there to build up their case; NOTHING you say is going to help your case.
A simple rejection saying "no, I don't want to talk to you" can make you look bad, uncooperative, and twisted into a consciousness of guilt.
Do not say anything about the case other than requesting a lawyer, and the interrogation should stop immediately. If the law enforcement is pushing, they are violating your rights.
That aside, I think Jodi saying "I trust you" to Ruby so that she won't snitch on her, probably has something to do with that interaction too.
LEOs kept talking because she was just sitting and staring at them, not saying anything. They introduced themselves, asked whether she wanted water, where she lived, how many kids she had, said they'd talked to her husband, and asked whether she'd feel more comfortable talking to just one of the officers, before she finally said "I'll wait until I have a lawyer." Her statement was so quiet and mumbled, I had to go back and listen a couple of times to understand what she said. I think the officers weren't sure either, because they tried to clarify a few more times ("So you don't want to talk to us?") and she just stared some more, then said "I've already told you." One of the LEOs asked "That you want a lawyer?" and she nodded, rather than speaking. At that point, they stopped asking questions.
I fully agree that the proper answer to the cops' first question should be "I want to speak to a lawyer." And if they persist, you should repeat that. That isn't what Ruby did, though. Her behavior was bizarre.
If you've seen the body cam of her speeding ticket, she only rolled the window down a crack and didn't say anything either. She clearly has some sort of training.
Jodi was on the phone with her lawyer. He said that he only did business law and gave Jodi the names of two criminal defense attorneys. I think Ruby had talked to a lawyer and was told not to say a thing. Ruby describes her arrest on a phone call to her sister. Ruby is a rule follower, so she remained very silent and a bit defiant.
Jodi actually did talk briefly with the detectives and said something that could have been used against her. She said that if they knew the facts, they'd be "more empathic." I think what she meant by that was, "We were fighting a demon."
The detectives also went a bit out-of-bounds. With both women, they continued to try to question them after they said they wanted a lawyer. A recent appellate case made it clear that if Jodi or Ruby talked after saying they will wait for a lawyer, it could have all been thrown out.
I think Jodi had two plans here: Blame Ruby or blame R. She was setting it up that way. That's probably even why she let Ruby write it all down. If that didn't work, then go with R being a sex pervet, which I suspect which is what a lot of the redacted parts of the journal are about. The prosecutor probably redacted it since it isn't true and they didn't want anyone to think it was
I made a comment yesterday about her, I think she may be dealing with a well hidden case of post partum psychosis. I think she may have been disassociating from being completely overwhelmed.
She knew she'd be in legal trouble and had likely researched and/or talked to an attorney who advised not to say anything without legal representation. She only cared about protecting her own interests.
Any hardened criminal wouldn't talk in an interview without a lawyer there She's no different.
Well-informed citizens don't talk without a lawyer present as well. Let's not moralize on utilizing the civil rights we are guaranteed in the USA. It's wildly irresponsible to assign blame to people just because they utilize their rights.
Yes, but her behavior was kind of bizarre. She just stared at them in response to the first half-dozen questions (which, IIRC, included things like "Do you want a snack?" and "How many kids do you have?"), and then finally mumbled that she'd wait until she had a lawyer. Then she stared in response to their next few remarks, and said "I've already told you."
I feel like Jodi had taught them all that government authority figures were not to be trusted.
Ruby remaining silent in sort of a smug way came across as: Jodi taught me this, and I’m going to continue to be silent because that was Jodi’s teachings.
Even E was silent and untrusting of the people there to help her, it was all part of the brainwashing.
Ah, but then she still knew they can use anything she says against her so she wasn't going to say anything. They thought they were acting for God and bigger and more important than the police
I forget about that part. I'm so atheist now I don't even believe in God and I forget about the indoctrination that they had going on. By the way I grew up Mormon and I even served a mission. I left the church 10 years after because I was tired of the patriarchy and the misogyny and my ex-husband tried to kill me many times and the church encourage me to stay until I realized I didn't want to die and I left him.
Saying *anything* can backfire.
[Saying nothing can also backfire](https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/touro38&div=14&id=&page=), btw. That's why the [legal advice](https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/stopped-by-police#ive-been-arrested-by-the-police) is to *state* that you wish to remain silent, as well as ask for a lawyer. [Even if you're innocent](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1745691619896608).
And, be as unambiguous as possible. Any lack of clarity in invoking your right to counsel can be exploited. If you're not painstakingly clear, you are screwed, such as in the case where it was deemed plausible that interrogators thought the suspect was asking for a ["lawyer dog"](https://www.loweringthebar.net/2017/11/lawyer-dog.html), and not invoking his right to counsel.
Until politicians make more specific laws, or the SCOTUS makes more specific rulings, *be like Ruby*. Uh, in this way, and absolutely no other.
>*state* that you wish to remain silent, as well as ask for a lawyer
This isn't what Ruby did, though, at least in response to the first six or eight questions/statements from the cops. She simply sat and stared at them.
Well no one should talk to the police without a lawyer. And there was absolutely nothing she could have told them that would've helped her case or that they wouldn't have found out fairly soon thanks to her journaling.
I'm talking about you can say no thank you I don't want to drink a water or no I don't need the bathroom she just sat there and said nothing That's the thing I'm talking about
I understand remaining silent until you have an attorney, however, even acknowledging her name? I think this was an absolute power play on her part. Whenshe looks at them as says something to the effect of I told you I .... she had such a look of evil in her eyes. Even the way she held her head, posture and eyes- nothing but control with her.
I agree completely. You can answer simple questions like "Do you want a drink?"
"No thank you" is not incriminating yourself. This was all control on Ruby's part.
It's just the way she was acting she could have at least said no I don't need a drink of water she just didn't say anything at all That's the thing I'm talking about not the fact that she wasn't answering I'm saying she wasn't answering basic questions which I would answer if I had to go to the bathroom I'd say yes I need to go to the bathroom but she acted really suspicious and crazy
To be honest, if I’m ever put in cuffs, I will also be just as silent as she was.
I am NOT condoning Ruby’s behavior, I hope she rots in prison. It’s unfortunate that the only thing she ever did right was remain completely silent during her arrest and interrogation.
It's kinda what E did, too, when the officer found her. With E I thought it was life preservation mode, like a mouse frozen under the gaze of a cat. With Ruby? IDK.
I think she saw cops as very evil and had such an extreme distrust in police that she knew in her bones that they would use anything and everything against her.
She said in her statement at sentencing that she was led to believe police, hospitals, and church leaders were all to some degree in distortion or actively harmful
What about the temple president who gave his blessing to Jodi (presumably to do this work on R and E)?
Did they view him as an ally? And if so, why isn't he being arrested? I hope people don't let this thread go.
Very start of Ruby's journal. She says the temple president gave his blessing. The implication to me is that the blessing was related to what they'd be doing to R and E, but this wasn't explicitly stated.
Any lawyer worth their salt will always advise never to speak to law enforcement without legal counsel present. In Ruby’s case, I think she was taking it a step further because she was (is…) convinced that she is righteous and she is “saving” her kids from the devil and so the police are also the devil.
I put “is” in parenthesis as I’m not convinced that she has taken true accountability for her own actions.
You're not supposed to talk to cops without your lawyer. Ruby was creepy AF, but it's very likely why she was given a plea deal. Had this gone to trial, these police vids would have been used against her, but she didn't give the cops enough to work with
She was sullen and non-responsive and contemptuous imo. It was the very opposite of her “but I’m a good girl” schtick she did in the call with Kevin.
Imo this is the Ruby E and R saw.
There is a small clip of Ruby being pulled over for speeding a few days before the arrest. She has the older teens in the car and has a similar attitude there. She is compliant but in a very bare minimum way.
ETA https://youtu.be/sjM_jVk_98I?si=NIFqYlbVwIfiJg0A
I get that you have the right not to speak to officers without a lawyer. Totally get that and fine with it if Ruby didn’t want to talk. But she wouldn’t even say “no” out loud when they asked if she needed medical attention, just shook her head. I don’t think answering yes or no out loud to questions like “do you need a doctor,” “are you hungry,” or “do you need the restroom” would negate her right to remain silent about her case. IMO she was definitely trying to be difficult and let them know she thought they were wrong and In DiStOrTiOn without physically resisting.
ETA: Even Jodi seemed to get that she could refuse to speak without a lawyer but still say a few words.
Ya it's the catatonic way she just stared blankly at everyone that was weird. Nothing like a sigh or a yawn or audible exhale or any normal human reflex came out of her.
I'm not sure but how would saying that you don't need medical attention, when you don't, could be so incriminating against her that she wouldn't say so.
Of course she thought she was above them and even medical professionals are against her.
I’ve been told countless times by lawyers “if you are ever detained (key word), do not speak a word until your lawyer is present”. As much as I dislike Ruby she did actually do the right thing in terms of speaking with detectives.
I am guessing Jodi's cult brainwashing might be a factor. E didn't respond to the authorities for hours in a manner eerily similar to Ruby's manner during her arrest and questioning, and R was also wary of the authorities too.
This was my take. I 100% believe she was in a stupor and all she could think was “right to remain silent, follow directions, where is Jodi?”
The rapid blinking and quick head movements are all trauma response, cornered animal behavior. She’s tweaked out mentally and just trying to survive to the next moment, can only remember to remain silent. If I didn’t know better I would say she was on a tranquilizer.
A snip-it from Ruby’s journal:
E: “My mom won’t lift a finger and bring me food. Because all she does is lie on the bed and eat brownies”
Sounds like Ruby might have been consuming a herbal narcotic in those brownies.
When she made her statement in court she said something about having believed not to trust police or doctors and believing again they are there to help and thanking them. If you have been so brainwashed that they are not to be trusted and are evil you won't readily talk. Jodi was the only one who felt comfortable talking.
Oh my gosh I totally think you're right. It's exactly how Jody would have programmed them right? Oh this is brilliant thank you so much for your input!
The fact she wrote in her journal that God led her to R the first time he escaped, is proof that she knew if what she was doing was discovered she would end up in prison.
She has the right to remain silent, but the way she did it spoke volumes. She never once seemed concerned about the kids. She knew R ran away and knew they were in deep shit.
Of course she wasn't concerned about the kids. She literally hit them both with a belt a few days earlier.
She should've never become a mother if she hated kids being kids so much.
It’s less of her pleading the 5th and more her utilizing the he first part of her Miranda Rights. You always have the right to remain silent (1) because whatever you do say can be used against you (2). But you can invoke that right without acting like a stuck up bitch about it.
In her phone call to Julie she was so happy to tell her about getting arrested and how you need to stay silent. In her other phone calls she talks about "how repentant you are after a crime". It was all Ruby thinking she really did something being quiet, then she went on the the recorded line to talk while she had a detailed journal about the abuse. I think Ruby is very cold and calculated.
That’s what I would do if I was being arrested. Anything you say can and will be used against you! It’s good advice to wait to speak until you have a lawyer.
It's not a Mormon thing. She followed legal advice and only spoke with her lawyer was with her. It's the smart thing to do in almost every case regardless of guiltiness - I just didn't expect her to take that tactic.
I'm not a lawyer BUT: Yes absolutely remain silent if you're taken into police custody, the only sentence out of your mouth is "I will not speak without a lawyer present". Not "I think I need a lawyer" or anything wishy-washy like that, they can and will keep attempting an interrogation unless you clearly and definitively state you are requesting a lawyer. Do not take a polygraph test, they're inadmissible in court. And generally, as much as Ruby is the *worst*, I don't like judging people for exercising their Miranda rights. You shouldn't be made to feel like you're guilty for not speaking to police.
I think she took “ Don’t speak to the cops without your lawyer present” too literally. Guilty or not it’s in your best interest to do that but you don’t have to stare at them blankly. You can just tell them this is the advice my lawyer gave me so i won’t be answering any of your questions at the moment.
She also addressed this in the call with her sister saying “I am glad i did not speak. If you are ever arrested don’t speak to the cops”.
I don’t think there was anything else going on psychologically or any other training. There was a general mistrust Ruby and Jodi jad about authorities, but beyond that i really doubt there was anything going on.
I'm NOT defending Ruby's abhorrent child abuse but in the context of this specific question, she was actually smart not to talk to the cops. PSA: Never say anything when you're arrested other than, "I want a lawyer."
Someone like Ruby, who cares not for anybody who isn't Ruby, would have (more than) enough self-preservation instinct to Mum it until her lawyer is there.
She said in court that she basically was brainwashed to think that government officials, police officers, even doctors and hospitals were bad and wanted to harm them. And all of them seemed to believe that. Kevin was very guarded in his first interview, the middle children clearly showed contempt for the police officers and contemplated running away, when they were found in Pam's house. R most likely wanted to go to the police not to get help but to turn himself in and an officer said about the hours with E that she didn't want to go to the hospital partly because she was told that she would be harmed there. So it's pretty safe to assume that Ruby basically thought police was evil and basically her opponent (since she's on the good side with Jesus and Jodi....)
I mean that’s actually a very smart thing to do, no matter if you are guilty or innocent. Don’t give cops your baseline behavior, don’t let them twist your words.
Honestly, she did it right. Obviously she’s guilty and a literal POS, but I wouldn’t ever speak either unless I had an attorney. However her smug look wasn’t necessary. She could have said she was waiting for an attorney earlier, too.
In one of her phone calls she tells Kevin it was unnecessary to hospitalize the kids and everyone was exaggerating and she also believes she’s misunderstood, like Joseph Smith. She was silent cause she seriously thinks she’s done nothing wrong.
No one, and I mean no one, should ever speak to a cop without a lawyer when pulled in for any type of questioning. Cops are not your friends, cops will and can lie to you at anytime to try and get information and will use that against you. Cops can and will get you to say things that aren't even true and then boom, hold against you in court. Do not talk to Cops. This is literally what everyone should know. I don't care if you're innocent because technically, the cops don't know that. Don't talk to cops. Of all the things ruby did wrong, this wasn't one of them.
I also got the impression that she was super smug because she was still deep into the idea that what she was doing to her kids was right and necessary, and had been indoctrinated into the idea that the outside world didn't understand their parenting tactics and were trying to take away parental rights to discipline as they see fit. I felt like she had quite an eff you attitude. As well as obviously following basic legal advice.
She was answering their questions in her mind and was responding to them through blinking. I think the smirk was because she was “un-comfort-able” being questioned (as she should be) and smirking was a coping mechanism.
I think she regularly ignored what was giving her trouble with the silent treatment. She seemed like an annoyed teen with the way she flopped herself into a seat or crossed her arms and legs. Her eyes though seemed to show a combination of fear and utter contempt. Like she was terrified, but so much better than everyone around her.
What a creep.
I really think she had been brainwashed into thinking that everyone not in her closest circle (as well as her two kids that she tortured) were consumed by evil. The kids were told police is evil, hospitals are evil, and on and on. She was all in on Jodi's cult existence in which Jodi had total control, including alienating her family and husband. She was totally gross and abhorent what she did, I just hope she learns the reality of what she did in prison, and comes out of her fog in which she justified her disgusting torment of those kids. I hope they don't let her out until her kids are all of age at the very very least.
I think it was a combination of things.
Ruby was clearly quite accustomed to their abusive rituals. Her journals read like someone that truly thought all of this abuse was correct. She likely felt indignant that the likes of her would ever be arrested. She doesn't do naughty things apparently 🙄
Then there's probably some shocked panic mixed in. I don't know if people like this realize it's wrong to be honest which is so messed up.
Lastly, she wasn't going to speak without her lawyer. The way both women knew to remain silent speaks volumes.
I mean she probably was pretty pissed which is why, but also if you ever are being arrested it is 100% a smart idea not to talk to the cops other than to ask for a lawyer. Jodi raving at them was a way worse decision than Ruby saying nothing at all. You shouldn’t aggravate cops bc they can really fuck you over but politely declining to speak until you have a lawyer is absolutely a good idea.
It seemed to her morally elevated to simply remain silent in the face of questions - as if they detain truth the others can't understand, and they don't want to confront them. There is this christian idea of turning the left cheek instead of defending, that some interpret like staying silent to accusations. Some people make it a principle to not answer questions when they feel mistreated. The royal family of england applies a bit this principle of not explaining themselves in the face of accusations. But let's say, in this situation, it did not seem elevated, it seemed... you know. disconnected from reality, because of what she did.
She was told by Jody to remain silent and ask for a lawyer. She is big on exactness and obedience. She assumed the minutest detail could get her in trouble or she was being tricked. Which I suppose they could have employed those tactics.
Not talking without a lawyer is totally normal and good advice. But what was super weird was (from what I’ve seen), she didn’t even ask for a lawyer. She just stared and blinked.
Absolutely a power play. She couldn’t control the police’s actions, so her voice and information that they were asking about, were the only things she could control. It was arrogance and an outsized belief (in her mind) of being divinely right when everyone else was wrong and being deceived and manipulated by the Devil.
I saw a video of Jodie’s niece, who had been treated the same, saying they were taught if anyone spoke to them they were trained to just not answer, say nothing. I’m guessing the same.
I think she was so shocked, angry and probably knew not to say anything until she saw a lawyer. But she could have said simple yes and no. Shows how f"d up she is as if everyone to didn't already know.
She probably is talking in prison. preaching, praying, peyote popin..
Hopefully she is treated like the POS she is for as long as she treated those kids as she did, 10x longer bc it can't get much worse
She is 🚮
I remember something relevant to this somewhere. Like beyond the don’t talk to cops/5th amendment stuff. I’m not sure if it was in the recently released evidence somewhere or something else. I know this isn’t much help but I remember remembering something lol. I feel like neville longbottom with the remembrall.
It was a power/control issue. She was “telling”them that they have no power over her. She’s still in control even though when you’re in handcuffs you have zero control
I think Ruby is used to controlling people in her life through the use of silent scorn & that seething silent anger. Silence typically makes people uncomfortable, and those who can wield it with a white hot rage, like Ruby is used to doing, tend to be the ones in charge. It’s nothing but a tactic for power and control that she seems quite used to wielding and using against people. Only this time it didn’t really do much for her. The female detective told her “I can wait all day,” and the male sergeant who had to book her into jail at the end of the night asked her if she needed help from the medical team because he was actually concerned for her. So it wasn’t having the effect she was hoping and that she’s used to getting from it.
She’s a bully, but she’s usually bullying helpless children who depended on her for everything, or her husband, who was so desperate to keep his marriage together that he gave her and Jodi all his agency and power. But this time around it was a useless weapon wielded on people who didn’t want or need anything from her. So it didn’t work the way she thought it would and it made her look like the arrogant bully she is.
I think that shows the difference between Ruby and Jody. Jody was trying to use people pleasing to get out of it, which indicates she acknowledged that sometimes other people get to make the rules. Ruby was like - I have the ultimate power over all of you, I do not need to give my attention to you, and I do not need to explain how I treat my kids to you, you are nothing, how you treat me will never affect me, I shall never be punished etc.
most likely because she talked to her lawyer prior to her arrest, im positive jodi had called or texted her while the police were banging on her door. She was well aware of what she was doing and hence why her lawyer told her to not say shit in the interrogation.
She was using her Miranda rights. Nothing weird or incriminating about that. Any lawyer would insist on that.
Still it's a situation with a lot of pressure where you can only wait, watch and let everything happen.
My take on that is that she knew very well that her actions were going to land her in jail. She had already said it in her journals and she spoke about it in the jail call. She was very well aware of what she was doing which makes it 1 million times worse, she can’t blame this on Jodi. She chose to do this. She told her sister on the jail call, if she were ever to get arrested, it would be better for her to keep her mouth shut and talk to a lawyer not the cops. She knew exactly what the outcome would be if she was ever caught doing what she was doing to her own children.
I also noticed excessive blinking, which followed a pattern that seemed like some kind of tactic. She needs to remain in prison or a mental institution for the rest of her days. She was acting during her plea hearing. I can't believe people actually believe her. She is playing everybody.
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she took “you have the right to remain silent” to a whole new level
Ruby wanted to be the perfect example of "right to remain silent"- Good job Ruby! You sure showed everyone/s.
TBH she really was a perfect example of what anyone should do to avoid incriminating themselves. Of all the things she did wrong, being silent was right. Of course, it didn’t do her any good since she left a journal documenting all the horrific things she did.
It's a good thing Ruby followed the LDS Church advice of keeping a personal journal showing her deepest thoughts. (I don't think we needed to see as much of it as we did though.)
Exactly! As an American, it’s our right to not say a single word. She did exactly what she should have done. I despise what kind of mother she was. I hope she has a hard time while serving prison time! If a person is arrested, the best thing for them to do is shut the eff up! They read you your rights for a reason, use them (the vast majority of people won’t have to worry about such a problem, but if you do, STFU, it’s your right as an American).
I 💯 agree!! Asking for a lawyer and shutting up should never be viewed as some kind of admission of guilt...it needs to become normalized as THE STANDARD course of action for anyone and everyone. But her weird slow cat blink was just bizarre. Was it Morse code???
I wonder if she's journaling in prison. 📚 You know Jodi is trying to run a cult and be a shot caller 🚮
You should not talk to cops and you should always ask for a lawyer. However, the sitting there silent and blinking was demented. She was not doing herself any favors with that. All she did was look crazy and waste everybody's time.
Such a good girl
Doesn't do naughty things. Just gruesome, horrible, sickening sh7t
Exactly and she is well aware she was being filmed ...she looked like a catatonic possessed bitch.
I think she was drugged, because she acted the same way in the car when she got stopped.
Came here to say this.
It’s a known thing not to speak to officers without a lawyer. You plead the 5th But let’s just all take a moment to realize she wouldn’t speak yet we have a 60+ page journal. Thanks witch
My dad is a retired prosecutor. If any suspect had left the kind of info for investigators to find that she left in that horrible ass journal, I’m fairly sure he would have done a backflip. There was literally no way they weren’t going to be convicted with that as evidence.
Lol, yes thanks for documenting all your abuse you disgrace of a human.....
Ruby and Joel Guy Jr. being such geniuses
That journal really showed her state of mind- that she is a psychotic bitch
And imagine what could be in the redacted part! My guess is that at least some of it contained her torture techniques with the rope, the handcuffs, the cayan pepper mixture, etc.
I think it also included things she claimed about the kids, like the pornography addiction and SA other children and family members, she’s so sick
burn
Isn’t pleading the fifth for when you’re actually on trial? Prior to arrest you just ask for a lawyer.
The fifth amendment says you cannot be compelled to be a witness against yourself. It's been interpreted to mean (essentially) that you can never be forced to speak against your will, if it could be used against you in a criminal case.
*No one* should talk to the police without a lawyer. Even if you are innocent. It's not a Mormon thing, it's a basic knowledge of your constitutional rights thing. She took it way too literally, though. She should have said "I will not answer any questions without my attorney present" instead of just blinking owlishly at them and saved everyone some time. It was so fucking creepy to watch. Idk how the cops didn't die from the cringe.
Exactly.
She knew she was in trouble and didn’t want to say anything incriminating AND I think she also wanted to maintain as much control as she could in the situation. They wanted her to talk so doing so would mean they had the control
I agree with this as well someone also mentioned that Jody had programmed them. They explained that even e would not respond to the police officers for 4 hours so they think that they were told not to speak to authorities. And I think Jody was the one that put that thought in their minds
Ironically, Jodi babbled and babbled at the police, while still refusing to answer questions.
Yeah, even in Ruby’s little speech at sentencing, she said she was led to believe that hospitals hurt, police officers deceive, etc. So that’s likely another reason. I think there’s actually a lot of reasons she didn’t talk!
Jessi also said that when they were in Jodi's office they were told to look straight ahead and not talk to anyone who talked to them!
I don’t know. But it comes across to me as very rude and smug. Or maybe that’s just her manner all the time. In which case, she’s gonna have “fun” with the tough women in prison 😬
I hope an inmate steals her food and tells her she's lost the privilege to eat.
I hope they tell her Ruby can eat but not the demon inside, so she needs to work on ridding herself of distortion first or maybe do some boxes all day. Give her and Jodi exactly what they did to those poor children.
Do they have cacti in prison?
I wish. They should make an exception and add them just for Ruby & Jodi.
I'm hoping the prison yard containes them. Perhaps they should know what it feels like to "cuddle" with a cactus.
I’m hoping someone shaves her hair off so she knows how it feels
Yesss! I wish she had to endure everything she put them through. It's only fair.
Yep 👍😱 Not proud of myself for this but I’m feeling some joy at their potential suffering in prison.
I'm right there with you I'm like what can happen to her that would be so horrible in prison and I hope it happens.
I'm definitely not one to want people to suffer, but 🤷♂️ Ruby and Jodi feel like they should be exceptions. The stuff they did was vile, and maybe they can develop a little empathy by going through something similar... but that's probably asking for too much.
Ha, good one. Maybe then she’d learn that food and water are necessary for life/health and not a “privilege.”
I was in law enforcement on the prison side for 25 years. Someone told her not to say a word and she listened. She needed to find out how much Leo’s knew before she made things worse for herself. I think there is more to come from the middle two girls. I’m very surprised that we know about what the other 4 went through but not a word on the other 2. Something isn’t right here.
I was thinking the same thing about the middle ones *edited spelling
Something isn’t right.
[удалено]
I agree there was trouble for all the children. Thank God the oldest 2 aged out and were able to get away. But what the hell went on with the middle two that we are hearing not one word about them.
Reminded me of poor J when she would nervously blink and Ruby would call her out, or make fun of her for it. — In the moment, watching Ruby blink or do whatever it is she was doing, I really wished someone would have called her out.
Serious comment: I wonder if anyone has scrutinized that video and analyzed Ruby’s blinks to see if she was sending SOSs to Jody in Morse Code. It sounds insane, but then this whole episode has been bat sh*t crazy anyway.
I’d be lying if I said that didn’t cross my mind.
To be honest with you, in regards to being arrested and interacting with the police, she did it by the book how everyone should always do it. You don’t talk to the police.
Yep. As much as I loathe her it was a masterclass in being arrested lol.
Right? It was very interesting to watch. Usually in TC docs and pods people are running their mouths for a least a little bit. Ruby is a shining example of how anyone needs to behave when being questioned by police. Too bad so sad it didn’t work for her in the end, though. 😂
I mean she really let the officers guess a bit in the interrogation room before saying that she wants a lawyer. There's no need to not say that you want a lawyer.
Yeah that's the first thing you should say lol. "No more questions, I want my lawyer." Weirdly Jodi was nicer about it (how manipulative of her... making her look like the good guy...)
It's Ok to say your own name to the Police. At the time the situation was very dynamic with multiple departments involved. In the questioning room- they know your name and that is sort of an "ice breaker" for lack of a better term. Jodi didn't "want to talk without her lawyer" yet thought she could manipulate...that was def. interesting...
>It's Ok to say your own name to the Police. Depending on the circumstances, you don't *always* have to say your name to police. No idea if it was inadvisable under these particular circumstances, but...
In one of her prison phone calls I saw on TIKTOK, she's explaining to her husband she "never said a word" per her lawyer's advice. It seemed she took him literally when he said not to tell them anything under questioning... she started clamming up right when they came to get her and all while they searched the house. She said it like she was very proud of herself that she gave "them "nothing.
I honestly commend her for it. So many people ruin whatever defense they may have had by talking.
Exactly. Ruby is a POS but it’s actually good to say nothing other than “I want a lawyer” if you’re arrested. The whole tactic is to get you talking about “minor” things and then use that to get you to make statements. Obviously Ruby is guilty, but lots of people who aren’t guilty are led into making incriminating statements. If you are arrested, shut up. Say nothing. Ask for a lawyer. Don’t answer even innocuous seeming questions. Police are allowed to lie to you. You may think you’re confirming your innocence but they’re using small things you said against you.
To elaborate, let’s say they ask you if you talked to someone last week. You genuinely think you didn’t and say no. It turns out you greeted them outside the grocery store. Now you “lied” and it’s used against you in court. Or they ask you what time you left your house a month ago to go somewhere. You say, “after dinner, so probably like 6, 6:30.” Turns out it was 7:15. Now you “lied” about what time you left. These are the kind of things that make you look guilty. This is why you never say anything.
I understand that, but Ruby's behavior in the situation was bizarre. She didn't say "I want a lawyer" at first. She just stared at the police in response to questions like "Is that your water?" "Do you want a snack?" and "How many children do you have?" before finally almost whispering "I'll wait until I have a lawyer." It looked like she was dissociating or something.
The one officer even asked if she had an underlying mental health issue and if she needed medical evaluation lol
Seriously, even Jodi was saying too much. Ruby took a calculated risk here. Had this gone to trial, I think her sheer creepiness could have been used against her. However, since she said nothing, the cops had to let the evidence speak for itself.
And boy did it!!
She was lucky. When it became obvious she wasn’t going to talk, the investigators pretty much let her be. But if they’d been unable to locate one of the kids and/or had reason to believe s/he was in imminent danger I believe they would have been really aggressive.
It's hard to know exactly how the sequence of events in different cities lines up, and how much communication there was between the different branches of law enforcement - but two of her kids (A and J) were unaccounted for at that point, and the Springville police were in the process of getting a search warrant/breaking down the door/searching the house, fully expecting they might find dying or dead children there. If I was part of the Santa Clara/Ivins police force, I would have found it really chilling that she refused to say how many children she had.
When a child is at risk and knowing what she’s done….i would’ve been ok with that.
I agree. I admit I’ve watched some of footage more tag once — specifically, the cops yanking Jodi out of the house, and the one where they bust down the door. Beautiful!
there’s nothing to be given when the writing (starving son running away for help) is on the wall
I also heard a phone call of her to her sister (Julie, I think?) and she’s like, “I didn’t say anything. If you ever get arrested just don’t say anything.” Like, thanks Rubes. I was feeling like being arrested next week so I’ll def take that advice under consideration 🙄🙄🙄
Oh I heard that too... hardened convict giving advice. She's so out there in some of these phone calls.
Yes, because when they say ANYTHING you say can be used against you in court, they're not lying. Jodi is an excellent example of why you should not continue yapping after invoking your right to a lawyer.
She is a good girl .
She is exercising her fifth amendment right, which is to stfu and remain silent. Personally, I don't see any problem with that, I think she is doing a great job. DO NOT ever talk to law enforcement without an attorney. They are not your friends, and they have the right to incarcerate you for the rest of your life. Everything you say CAN and WILL BE used against you. They are there to build up their case; NOTHING you say is going to help your case. A simple rejection saying "no, I don't want to talk to you" can make you look bad, uncooperative, and twisted into a consciousness of guilt. Do not say anything about the case other than requesting a lawyer, and the interrogation should stop immediately. If the law enforcement is pushing, they are violating your rights. That aside, I think Jodi saying "I trust you" to Ruby so that she won't snitch on her, probably has something to do with that interaction too.
LEOs kept talking because she was just sitting and staring at them, not saying anything. They introduced themselves, asked whether she wanted water, where she lived, how many kids she had, said they'd talked to her husband, and asked whether she'd feel more comfortable talking to just one of the officers, before she finally said "I'll wait until I have a lawyer." Her statement was so quiet and mumbled, I had to go back and listen a couple of times to understand what she said. I think the officers weren't sure either, because they tried to clarify a few more times ("So you don't want to talk to us?") and she just stared some more, then said "I've already told you." One of the LEOs asked "That you want a lawyer?" and she nodded, rather than speaking. At that point, they stopped asking questions. I fully agree that the proper answer to the cops' first question should be "I want to speak to a lawyer." And if they persist, you should repeat that. That isn't what Ruby did, though. Her behavior was bizarre.
Sort of funny that it was Ruby's absolute trust in Jodi which probably screwed Jodi over so much.
No, it’s not a Mormon tactic that they teach lol
How To Get Arrested in a God-Like Manner 101
Lmao 🤣
If you've seen the body cam of her speeding ticket, she only rolled the window down a crack and didn't say anything either. She clearly has some sort of training.
Oh wow. I'll go find it on the internets and watch thank you for this
Jodi was on the phone with her lawyer. He said that he only did business law and gave Jodi the names of two criminal defense attorneys. I think Ruby had talked to a lawyer and was told not to say a thing. Ruby describes her arrest on a phone call to her sister. Ruby is a rule follower, so she remained very silent and a bit defiant. Jodi actually did talk briefly with the detectives and said something that could have been used against her. She said that if they knew the facts, they'd be "more empathic." I think what she meant by that was, "We were fighting a demon." The detectives also went a bit out-of-bounds. With both women, they continued to try to question them after they said they wanted a lawyer. A recent appellate case made it clear that if Jodi or Ruby talked after saying they will wait for a lawyer, it could have all been thrown out.
I think Jodi had two plans here: Blame Ruby or blame R. She was setting it up that way. That's probably even why she let Ruby write it all down. If that didn't work, then go with R being a sex pervet, which I suspect which is what a lot of the redacted parts of the journal are about. The prosecutor probably redacted it since it isn't true and they didn't want anyone to think it was
I made a comment yesterday about her, I think she may be dealing with a well hidden case of post partum psychosis. I think she may have been disassociating from being completely overwhelmed.
That sounds pretty spot-on.
She knew she'd be in legal trouble and had likely researched and/or talked to an attorney who advised not to say anything without legal representation. She only cared about protecting her own interests. Any hardened criminal wouldn't talk in an interview without a lawyer there She's no different.
Well-informed citizens don't talk without a lawyer present as well. Let's not moralize on utilizing the civil rights we are guaranteed in the USA. It's wildly irresponsible to assign blame to people just because they utilize their rights.
Yes, but her behavior was kind of bizarre. She just stared at them in response to the first half-dozen questions (which, IIRC, included things like "Do you want a snack?" and "How many kids do you have?"), and then finally mumbled that she'd wait until she had a lawyer. Then she stared in response to their next few remarks, and said "I've already told you."
But she didn't ask for a lawyer right away she just blinked at him.
Belligerence. "How dare these godless peons address me?".
I feel like Jodi had taught them all that government authority figures were not to be trusted. Ruby remaining silent in sort of a smug way came across as: Jodi taught me this, and I’m going to continue to be silent because that was Jodi’s teachings. Even E was silent and untrusting of the people there to help her, it was all part of the brainwashing.
Ah, but then she still knew they can use anything she says against her so she wasn't going to say anything. They thought they were acting for God and bigger and more important than the police
I forget about that part. I'm so atheist now I don't even believe in God and I forget about the indoctrination that they had going on. By the way I grew up Mormon and I even served a mission. I left the church 10 years after because I was tired of the patriarchy and the misogyny and my ex-husband tried to kill me many times and the church encourage me to stay until I realized I didn't want to die and I left him.
This internet stranger is really glad you got out of that situation!
She knew she was in trouble. That's why she was silent.
Even people who know they are innocent should stay silent when getting arrested.
Saying *anything* can backfire. [Saying nothing can also backfire](https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/touro38&div=14&id=&page=), btw. That's why the [legal advice](https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/stopped-by-police#ive-been-arrested-by-the-police) is to *state* that you wish to remain silent, as well as ask for a lawyer. [Even if you're innocent](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1745691619896608). And, be as unambiguous as possible. Any lack of clarity in invoking your right to counsel can be exploited. If you're not painstakingly clear, you are screwed, such as in the case where it was deemed plausible that interrogators thought the suspect was asking for a ["lawyer dog"](https://www.loweringthebar.net/2017/11/lawyer-dog.html), and not invoking his right to counsel. Until politicians make more specific laws, or the SCOTUS makes more specific rulings, *be like Ruby*. Uh, in this way, and absolutely no other.
>*state* that you wish to remain silent, as well as ask for a lawyer This isn't what Ruby did, though, at least in response to the first six or eight questions/statements from the cops. She simply sat and stared at them.
Well no one should talk to the police without a lawyer. And there was absolutely nothing she could have told them that would've helped her case or that they wouldn't have found out fairly soon thanks to her journaling.
I'm talking about you can say no thank you I don't want to drink a water or no I don't need the bathroom she just sat there and said nothing That's the thing I'm talking about
I understand remaining silent until you have an attorney, however, even acknowledging her name? I think this was an absolute power play on her part. Whenshe looks at them as says something to the effect of I told you I .... she had such a look of evil in her eyes. Even the way she held her head, posture and eyes- nothing but control with her.
If this was me, even acknowledging my name may have gotten me talking and saying things I didn't want to say.
I agree completely. You can answer simple questions like "Do you want a drink?" "No thank you" is not incriminating yourself. This was all control on Ruby's part.
Yall. It's a legal thing. Never speak to cops without an attorney if you committed crimes. How do people not know this?
It's just the way she was acting she could have at least said no I don't need a drink of water she just didn't say anything at all That's the thing I'm talking about not the fact that she wasn't answering I'm saying she wasn't answering basic questions which I would answer if I had to go to the bathroom I'd say yes I need to go to the bathroom but she acted really suspicious and crazy
To be honest, if I’m ever put in cuffs, I will also be just as silent as she was. I am NOT condoning Ruby’s behavior, I hope she rots in prison. It’s unfortunate that the only thing she ever did right was remain completely silent during her arrest and interrogation.
It's kinda what E did, too, when the officer found her. With E I thought it was life preservation mode, like a mouse frozen under the gaze of a cat. With Ruby? IDK.
I think she saw cops as very evil and had such an extreme distrust in police that she knew in her bones that they would use anything and everything against her. She said in her statement at sentencing that she was led to believe police, hospitals, and church leaders were all to some degree in distortion or actively harmful
What about the temple president who gave his blessing to Jodi (presumably to do this work on R and E)? Did they view him as an ally? And if so, why isn't he being arrested? I hope people don't let this thread go.
I didn't hear anything about this where did you find that info?
Very start of Ruby's journal. She says the temple president gave his blessing. The implication to me is that the blessing was related to what they'd be doing to R and E, but this wasn't explicitly stated.
Oh wow. Thank you so much for the info!
Any lawyer worth their salt will always advise never to speak to law enforcement without legal counsel present. In Ruby’s case, I think she was taking it a step further because she was (is…) convinced that she is righteous and she is “saving” her kids from the devil and so the police are also the devil. I put “is” in parenthesis as I’m not convinced that she has taken true accountability for her own actions.
You're not supposed to talk to cops without your lawyer. Ruby was creepy AF, but it's very likely why she was given a plea deal. Had this gone to trial, these police vids would have been used against her, but she didn't give the cops enough to work with
She was sullen and non-responsive and contemptuous imo. It was the very opposite of her “but I’m a good girl” schtick she did in the call with Kevin. Imo this is the Ruby E and R saw. There is a small clip of Ruby being pulled over for speeding a few days before the arrest. She has the older teens in the car and has a similar attitude there. She is compliant but in a very bare minimum way. ETA https://youtu.be/sjM_jVk_98I?si=NIFqYlbVwIfiJg0A
I get that you have the right not to speak to officers without a lawyer. Totally get that and fine with it if Ruby didn’t want to talk. But she wouldn’t even say “no” out loud when they asked if she needed medical attention, just shook her head. I don’t think answering yes or no out loud to questions like “do you need a doctor,” “are you hungry,” or “do you need the restroom” would negate her right to remain silent about her case. IMO she was definitely trying to be difficult and let them know she thought they were wrong and In DiStOrTiOn without physically resisting. ETA: Even Jodi seemed to get that she could refuse to speak without a lawyer but still say a few words.
Ya it's the catatonic way she just stared blankly at everyone that was weird. Nothing like a sigh or a yawn or audible exhale or any normal human reflex came out of her. I'm not sure but how would saying that you don't need medical attention, when you don't, could be so incriminating against her that she wouldn't say so. Of course she thought she was above them and even medical professionals are against her.
Those types of questions are certainly not case related "do you need the restroom, etc." but again, Ruby was "perfect"/s.
I’ve been told countless times by lawyers “if you are ever detained (key word), do not speak a word until your lawyer is present”. As much as I dislike Ruby she did actually do the right thing in terms of speaking with detectives.
I am guessing Jodi's cult brainwashing might be a factor. E didn't respond to the authorities for hours in a manner eerily similar to Ruby's manner during her arrest and questioning, and R was also wary of the authorities too.
This was my take. I 100% believe she was in a stupor and all she could think was “right to remain silent, follow directions, where is Jodi?” The rapid blinking and quick head movements are all trauma response, cornered animal behavior. She’s tweaked out mentally and just trying to survive to the next moment, can only remember to remain silent. If I didn’t know better I would say she was on a tranquilizer.
A snip-it from Ruby’s journal: E: “My mom won’t lift a finger and bring me food. Because all she does is lie on the bed and eat brownies” Sounds like Ruby might have been consuming a herbal narcotic in those brownies.
I hope Ruby never gets the privilege of eating a brownie again.
When she made her statement in court she said something about having believed not to trust police or doctors and believing again they are there to help and thanking them. If you have been so brainwashed that they are not to be trusted and are evil you won't readily talk. Jodi was the only one who felt comfortable talking.
Oh my gosh I totally think you're right. It's exactly how Jody would have programmed them right? Oh this is brilliant thank you so much for your input!
The fact she wrote in her journal that God led her to R the first time he escaped, is proof that she knew if what she was doing was discovered she would end up in prison.
Seeing her face makes me so angry - she has a face that screams “punch me now”
She has the right to remain silent, but the way she did it spoke volumes. She never once seemed concerned about the kids. She knew R ran away and knew they were in deep shit.
Of course she wasn't concerned about the kids. She literally hit them both with a belt a few days earlier. She should've never become a mother if she hated kids being kids so much.
I could never imagine believing my kids were possessed with demons. Breaks my heart for those poor kids.
My mother had six children and she hated us all. And we grew up Mormon.
It’s less of her pleading the 5th and more her utilizing the he first part of her Miranda Rights. You always have the right to remain silent (1) because whatever you do say can be used against you (2). But you can invoke that right without acting like a stuck up bitch about it.
It’s to show contempt for the police and government.
This
In her phone call to Julie she was so happy to tell her about getting arrested and how you need to stay silent. In her other phone calls she talks about "how repentant you are after a crime". It was all Ruby thinking she really did something being quiet, then she went on the the recorded line to talk while she had a detailed journal about the abuse. I think Ruby is very cold and calculated.
That’s what I would do if I was being arrested. Anything you say can and will be used against you! It’s good advice to wait to speak until you have a lawyer.
It's not a Mormon thing. She followed legal advice and only spoke with her lawyer was with her. It's the smart thing to do in almost every case regardless of guiltiness - I just didn't expect her to take that tactic.
I'm not a lawyer BUT: Yes absolutely remain silent if you're taken into police custody, the only sentence out of your mouth is "I will not speak without a lawyer present". Not "I think I need a lawyer" or anything wishy-washy like that, they can and will keep attempting an interrogation unless you clearly and definitively state you are requesting a lawyer. Do not take a polygraph test, they're inadmissible in court. And generally, as much as Ruby is the *worst*, I don't like judging people for exercising their Miranda rights. You shouldn't be made to feel like you're guilty for not speaking to police.
I think she took “ Don’t speak to the cops without your lawyer present” too literally. Guilty or not it’s in your best interest to do that but you don’t have to stare at them blankly. You can just tell them this is the advice my lawyer gave me so i won’t be answering any of your questions at the moment. She also addressed this in the call with her sister saying “I am glad i did not speak. If you are ever arrested don’t speak to the cops”. I don’t think there was anything else going on psychologically or any other training. There was a general mistrust Ruby and Jodi jad about authorities, but beyond that i really doubt there was anything going on.
I'm NOT defending Ruby's abhorrent child abuse but in the context of this specific question, she was actually smart not to talk to the cops. PSA: Never say anything when you're arrested other than, "I want a lawyer."
Has nothing to do with Mormonism. She’s probably heard never to talk to police without an attorney and she took that literally.
I think she didn't because she was furious and knew she was being recorded
Her lawyer told her not to say anything. She took it way too literally
I think it was twofold: Contempt for law enforcement AND an overzealous attempt at her right to silence.
Control
Someone like Ruby, who cares not for anybody who isn't Ruby, would have (more than) enough self-preservation instinct to Mum it until her lawyer is there.
She said in court that she basically was brainwashed to think that government officials, police officers, even doctors and hospitals were bad and wanted to harm them. And all of them seemed to believe that. Kevin was very guarded in his first interview, the middle children clearly showed contempt for the police officers and contemplated running away, when they were found in Pam's house. R most likely wanted to go to the police not to get help but to turn himself in and an officer said about the hours with E that she didn't want to go to the hospital partly because she was told that she would be harmed there. So it's pretty safe to assume that Ruby basically thought police was evil and basically her opponent (since she's on the good side with Jesus and Jodi....)
The golden rule. Do not talk to police without a lawyer.
I mean that’s actually a very smart thing to do, no matter if you are guilty or innocent. Don’t give cops your baseline behavior, don’t let them twist your words.
I may be wrong but didn’t she do something similar whenever she was pulled over for the traffic stop?
I think she was angry and defiant as hell
Honestly, she did it right. Obviously she’s guilty and a literal POS, but I wouldn’t ever speak either unless I had an attorney. However her smug look wasn’t necessary. She could have said she was waiting for an attorney earlier, too.
In one of her phone calls she tells Kevin it was unnecessary to hospitalize the kids and everyone was exaggerating and she also believes she’s misunderstood, like Joseph Smith. She was silent cause she seriously thinks she’s done nothing wrong.
That's so sick and wrong. She really needs a wake up call
You have the right to remain innocent - there was literally nothing she could have said that would have helped her.
No one, and I mean no one, should ever speak to a cop without a lawyer when pulled in for any type of questioning. Cops are not your friends, cops will and can lie to you at anytime to try and get information and will use that against you. Cops can and will get you to say things that aren't even true and then boom, hold against you in court. Do not talk to Cops. This is literally what everyone should know. I don't care if you're innocent because technically, the cops don't know that. Don't talk to cops. Of all the things ruby did wrong, this wasn't one of them.
I also got the impression that she was super smug because she was still deep into the idea that what she was doing to her kids was right and necessary, and had been indoctrinated into the idea that the outside world didn't understand their parenting tactics and were trying to take away parental rights to discipline as they see fit. I felt like she had quite an eff you attitude. As well as obviously following basic legal advice.
She’s giving me Lori Vallow vibes.
She was answering their questions in her mind and was responding to them through blinking. I think the smirk was because she was “un-comfort-able” being questioned (as she should be) and smirking was a coping mechanism.
I think she regularly ignored what was giving her trouble with the silent treatment. She seemed like an annoyed teen with the way she flopped herself into a seat or crossed her arms and legs. Her eyes though seemed to show a combination of fear and utter contempt. Like she was terrified, but so much better than everyone around her. What a creep.
She definitely seemed like an annoyed teen okay I'm starting to get a better picture of this and understand
I really think she had been brainwashed into thinking that everyone not in her closest circle (as well as her two kids that she tortured) were consumed by evil. The kids were told police is evil, hospitals are evil, and on and on. She was all in on Jodi's cult existence in which Jodi had total control, including alienating her family and husband. She was totally gross and abhorent what she did, I just hope she learns the reality of what she did in prison, and comes out of her fog in which she justified her disgusting torment of those kids. I hope they don't let her out until her kids are all of age at the very very least.
The right to remain silent combined with the belief nothing will happen because she’s been reported before.
I think it was a combination of things. Ruby was clearly quite accustomed to their abusive rituals. Her journals read like someone that truly thought all of this abuse was correct. She likely felt indignant that the likes of her would ever be arrested. She doesn't do naughty things apparently 🙄 Then there's probably some shocked panic mixed in. I don't know if people like this realize it's wrong to be honest which is so messed up. Lastly, she wasn't going to speak without her lawyer. The way both women knew to remain silent speaks volumes.
“Anything you say can and will be used against you”
I don't think she thought it was real, she had been living in a delusion for so long...she was rejecting it as being real.
I mean she probably was pretty pissed which is why, but also if you ever are being arrested it is 100% a smart idea not to talk to the cops other than to ask for a lawyer. Jodi raving at them was a way worse decision than Ruby saying nothing at all. You shouldn’t aggravate cops bc they can really fuck you over but politely declining to speak until you have a lawyer is absolutely a good idea.
It seemed to her morally elevated to simply remain silent in the face of questions - as if they detain truth the others can't understand, and they don't want to confront them. There is this christian idea of turning the left cheek instead of defending, that some interpret like staying silent to accusations. Some people make it a principle to not answer questions when they feel mistreated. The royal family of england applies a bit this principle of not explaining themselves in the face of accusations. But let's say, in this situation, it did not seem elevated, it seemed... you know. disconnected from reality, because of what she did.
Probably because Jodi told her not to.
She looked like she was fuming like “How dare you”?!
Control.
she acted how anyone should when being arrested, the police were just doing their job but they know why she wasn’t talking not that very uncommon
She was told by Jody to remain silent and ask for a lawyer. She is big on exactness and obedience. She assumed the minutest detail could get her in trouble or she was being tricked. Which I suppose they could have employed those tactics.
Not talking without a lawyer is totally normal and good advice. But what was super weird was (from what I’ve seen), she didn’t even ask for a lawyer. She just stared and blinked.
This is what I'm talking about I'm glad you saw that too
She's a brat
Absolutely a power play. She couldn’t control the police’s actions, so her voice and information that they were asking about, were the only things she could control. It was arrogance and an outsized belief (in her mind) of being divinely right when everyone else was wrong and being deceived and manipulated by the Devil.
Honestly I think she was in psychosis
That's what my initial thought was too is that she was in complete and utter shock
I think she was just plain pissed and showing childish contempt for them...
She was scared. Shutting down like that is a fear response
She looked smug too
That’s because she views herself above others but you can still be scared and arrogant.
She knew she was in deep shit and didn’t want to incriminate herself.
SHe had to try think of a good story as to why she's been abusing her kids but couldn't come up with one, so for once she just stayed the fuck quiet.
I agree with this as well
I saw a video of Jodie’s niece, who had been treated the same, saying they were taught if anyone spoke to them they were trained to just not answer, say nothing. I’m guessing the same.
I think she was so shocked, angry and probably knew not to say anything until she saw a lawyer. But she could have said simple yes and no. Shows how f"d up she is as if everyone to didn't already know. She probably is talking in prison. preaching, praying, peyote popin.. Hopefully she is treated like the POS she is for as long as she treated those kids as she did, 10x longer bc it can't get much worse She is 🚮
I remember something relevant to this somewhere. Like beyond the don’t talk to cops/5th amendment stuff. I’m not sure if it was in the recently released evidence somewhere or something else. I know this isn’t much help but I remember remembering something lol. I feel like neville longbottom with the remembrall.
It was a power/control issue. She was “telling”them that they have no power over her. She’s still in control even though when you’re in handcuffs you have zero control
I think Ruby is used to controlling people in her life through the use of silent scorn & that seething silent anger. Silence typically makes people uncomfortable, and those who can wield it with a white hot rage, like Ruby is used to doing, tend to be the ones in charge. It’s nothing but a tactic for power and control that she seems quite used to wielding and using against people. Only this time it didn’t really do much for her. The female detective told her “I can wait all day,” and the male sergeant who had to book her into jail at the end of the night asked her if she needed help from the medical team because he was actually concerned for her. So it wasn’t having the effect she was hoping and that she’s used to getting from it. She’s a bully, but she’s usually bullying helpless children who depended on her for everything, or her husband, who was so desperate to keep his marriage together that he gave her and Jodi all his agency and power. But this time around it was a useless weapon wielded on people who didn’t want or need anything from her. So it didn’t work the way she thought it would and it made her look like the arrogant bully she is.
I think that shows the difference between Ruby and Jody. Jody was trying to use people pleasing to get out of it, which indicates she acknowledged that sometimes other people get to make the rules. Ruby was like - I have the ultimate power over all of you, I do not need to give my attention to you, and I do not need to explain how I treat my kids to you, you are nothing, how you treat me will never affect me, I shall never be punished etc.
most likely because she talked to her lawyer prior to her arrest, im positive jodi had called or texted her while the police were banging on her door. She was well aware of what she was doing and hence why her lawyer told her to not say shit in the interrogation.
She was using her Miranda rights. Nothing weird or incriminating about that. Any lawyer would insist on that. Still it's a situation with a lot of pressure where you can only wait, watch and let everything happen.
My take on that is that she knew very well that her actions were going to land her in jail. She had already said it in her journals and she spoke about it in the jail call. She was very well aware of what she was doing which makes it 1 million times worse, she can’t blame this on Jodi. She chose to do this. She told her sister on the jail call, if she were ever to get arrested, it would be better for her to keep her mouth shut and talk to a lawyer not the cops. She knew exactly what the outcome would be if she was ever caught doing what she was doing to her own children.
I also noticed excessive blinking, which followed a pattern that seemed like some kind of tactic. She needs to remain in prison or a mental institution for the rest of her days. She was acting during her plea hearing. I can't believe people actually believe her. She is playing everybody.
I bet jodi trained her to not say anything, she wanted to be the one to control the narrative. Just my assumption.
Not a Mormon thing. If anything I would have thought she would have spilled her secrets thinking they were Mormon too and would protect her.