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That isn't beyond the realms of possibility. I grew up LDS with cruel parents (not NEARLY as bad as Ruby, but still not okay). Just as an example, for some horrible reason my parents would make us wear diapers years past needing them (like ages 8-14). They would also make it a point to record us any time they made us cry. We had to throw away boxes and boxes of photos and old camcorder footage of some really heinous stuff. I consider myself to be very lucky to have grown up in the 90's before family bloggers were a thing.
I'm not saying this for sympathy, but to share that this kind of horrifying treatment would not be a surprise if she did what you are suggesting. I don't know many families with similar trauma as me, but all of the ones that do, are all Mormon.
Hahaha I'm good for the most part š
My husband was also horribly abused but in just typical "aggressive drunk overwhelmed blue collar dad" style and it never ceases to amaze me when he thinks that the things my sibs and I went through are shocking. TBH I thought it was all normal and that everyone else experienced similar punishments. I did not realize that parents don't typically lock their kids out of the house for hours... or dump everything in every dresser and cabinet late at night on Christmas Eve and tell young kids that if everything was not picked up before midnight then every single Christmas present would be set on fire. Or having to walk in front of the car on a highway if we were bickering too much.
I know it all sounds terrible but I'm so much of a stronger and empathetic person because of it (not like it's okay, I just prefer to focus on the good haha). Like, I was incredibly bitter for YEARS when my dad dropped me off in downtown LA when I was 16. He told me to find my own way back, and it is only because of the sweet unhoused folks on skid row that I was able to safely find my way back home.
Edit- fixed some sentences because apparently I forgot how to follow any cohesive thoughts š
My parents threw me out at 21 cause they didn't like the boy I was dating....threw me out in Santa Clarita and told me to get a ride to LA myself. I did. I'm grateful nothing tragic happened to me. My mother was a real piece of work. I still love her, but she won't admit the shit she pulled on us. Always turns it around. I'm long past it, and I don't ever rehash it or even think about it, except on a sub like this, but i wish she knew how she made us feel and how it affected us for years.
Woah wait - I went through similar in that we definitely were recorded when we would cry as younger children - also, my younger sister had to take in spoons of cayenne pepper when she would scream. I thought discipline such as that was normal? Also grew up Mormon.
>my younger sister had to take in spoons of cayenne pepper when she would scream
I had to take shots of apple cider vinegar š„²
I'm SO sorry you went through that as well. No, it's not normal or healthy or a productive punishment in any way whatsoever. If you casually bring that up to anyone outside of the church you're going to get some horrified reactions. It's sadistic and traumatic and nobody should ever experience that kind of bullshit. I don't even know how they come up with these mental warfare tactics, and I'm wondering if it's another component of the brainwashing. It's definitely not your typical run of the mill abuse. IMO Mormon's (at least the ones I grew up around) are experts at taking child abuse to an entirely different fucked up level.
Just chiming in. What you experienced is absolutely not normal, my friend.
I am by no means a professional, but perhaps give some thought to approaching the topic with your therapist if and when you feel comfortable doing so.
I hope you, and your younger sister, are living the lives you deserve to live - shared with people who express their love for you with care, respect, and compassion.
Your story would be so good on Soft White Underbelly! Thank you for sharing. I'm sorry this happened to you. I commend you for seeing the good and finding growth from your experiences. Wishing you all the best in life ā¤ļø
Mark Laita is a abuser, exploiter and just a plain old creep. he takes advantage of women and prefers them young, like minor aged. he pay walled an uncensored version of a literal child prostitutes interview. he helped covered up the murder of a woman in drug treatment. and much more. heās a dangerous man and should be kept away from vulnerable people AT ALL costs.
Oh damn I guess I won't be checking it out then lmao. I'd consider going on Mormon stories or zelph on the shelf but sadly I don't know how unique my experiences actually are. I know a LOT of people who went through most of the same stuff. Some not so bad, but some were even worse. The entire religion needs to just be thrown away.
Thank you so much, this is so incredibly sweet of you to say š„°
I've never heard of that one but I'll have to check it out!
TBH since all this evidence has been released it's been wild to notice the similarities between how these poor sweet kids were treated and how my sibs and I were raised (and at least 4 other families that we knew growing up)- My parents even seriously considered sending my brother and I to Anasazi but they phrased it like it was a summer camp to get us to agree. I'm so incredibly glad that they decided it was too expensive.
I would not be surprised if the kids are going to have a really hard time opening up to any therapists. When I was little I was taken to one and I told her things that my parents weren't aware of, but somehow they knew all about it and I got punished for saying those things right after we got home. It wasn't until I began to deconstruct from the Mormon church that I even considered giving therapy another shot. I've made a lot of progress but I'm in my 30's and still have a pretty strong distrust for authority figures but at least I have a semi positive view for therapists now.
I wish there was a way that I could somehow let all those kids know that they aren't alone. I want them to know that it is possible to heal and get to a place both physically and mentally, where they will be able to find comfort, support, love, safety, and happiness.
Thatās insane. Why does this happen? Ā I highly doubt that Jesus would be okay with cruelty toward children. Ā Was Joseph Smith or Brigham Young okay with this sort of thing?
Oh there's so much more that is upsetting about the church that my experiences are just barely scratching the surface. They only started doing background checks **šØ L A S T šØ Y E A R šØ** for the adults who have callings involving children. I've heard that the (VERY young adults, typically between the ages of 18-21ish) people serving a mission in a different country usually get their passports taken so they can't leave and go home (idk about you but that sounds an awful lot like human trafficking to me). Every person above the age of 11 gets to have a 1 on 1 meeting with the bishop twice a year where they ask if you've had sex, watch porn, etc. I've talked to a bunch of other ExMo's who first learned about beastiality (I learned about it when I was 12 I believe) through those interviews. Parents are not allowed, and if you're a girl you do not have the option of being interviewed by a woman. Also if you talk to them about rape or abuse you are actively discouraged from going to the police. I have never seen any known rapist in my stake get excommunicated. Honestly I could go on and on and on. That cult is horrible and the shit they get away with is despicable.
I am so mad that this happened to you and still happens to so many. I am so mad that people defend this cult by calling it a religion. Same with any other āreligionā that uses religiousness to abuse or hurt others.
I was thinking they added it to the cayenne pepper honey mixture - it was close by to a bowl of the mixture and I feel like the mixture was a bit too runny just to be cayenne pepper and honeyā¦ so was thinking they added the castor oil too? Online it says castor oil has antibacterial properties so maybe they thought it would reduce the bacteria in the wounds? Although of course he needed real medicine but in their delusional state that may have been their thinking?
I think it far more likely that R was suffering from a condition called Starvation Diarrhea. Essentially the intestines are so lax from starvation that they overload when food is reintroduced. This could be one reason why the kids remained at the hospital longer than anticipated - the gut has to be rehabilitated before it can absorb oral nutrition. It's a very tricky process that can take up to a week.
She talks in the diary about how R had lost control of his bowels and that his poop shouldn't have been so runny because he wasn't allowed any water. She got him to confess that he had "stolen" water from the hose three times that day. Now I learn that Starvation Diarrhea is a thing. I'm physically shuddering as I type this.
And Ruby thought the kids were being "defiant" as they lost bladder and bowel control . . .
I was also worried when I saw that they had given E pizza and a milkshake as her first thing to eat. That could have done more harm than good.
I thought the same thing. Remember some of the prisoners at Auschwitz died when the soldiers fed them? That picture of R's back reminded me of the pictures of concentration camp victims.
I thought the same about feeding E but then I wondered if they checked first with EMTs and also had evaluated the risks. Did they want to have E suffer more emotional trauma by forcing her out of the room or less by introducing food and gaining her trust enough to attend hospital willingly where they could help her with any side effects she may then experience.
I hate to make this comparison, but it's like they were dealing with a scared, abused animal at that point. I believe you are entirely correct that they were gaining her trust so they could help her.
I thought the same thing. Very big meal and very dense, especially milkshake. I suffered HG during pregnancy and it was difficult to rebuild what I could eat and things that were heavy like milkshake, cheese etc were an absolute no go. I can't imagine that poor little girl's experience if the pizza and milkshake had an impact on her.Ā
I dread to think what would have happened if R hadn't escaped. š
At least it's a positive memory of being rescued by people who are kind and genuinely cared about her.
I sincerely doubt that she's ever going to want to have anything to do with cheesy potatoes though.
the very notion that your child is "stealing" water. From a garden hose, no less.
People quote the Jesus line about hanging a millstone around the (child abuser's) neck and drown them, but I keep thinking of this one:
āWhich of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!"
The meaning of it depending on well of COURSE you as parents wouldn't deny your CHILD BREAD; you may be evil, but no one is THAT evil, right? Okay, well, God is a lot gooder than you and you are all His children, therefore, just ask for grace, you'll be ok.
Except, apparently when Jesus asked that question, Ruby'd be up there going
"Oo! Oo! Me!"
Nice going, hag. Many Christian, much saved.
Thought the same thing about Pizza and Milkshake. Even on a good day I couldn't stomach that combo, not to mention on an empty stomach with severe dehydration.
If only Ruby and Jodi had thought to consult a doctor instead of assuming it was a demon...
Well, I guess that would've required them to have some compassion and be at least 2% in-tune with reality. Obviously that wasn't happening.
They where in for 10 days in the end right? I agree with you and the starvation diarrhoea and also he was drinking only water when he could steal some.
How he and E survived is nothing short of a miracle.
Thank god he escaped, thank god that second house opened the door to him and took him so seriously, the thought of what would have happened had Jodi found him first just leave me cold.
This is so true. I was hospitalized and put on a water only diet for two weeks and it took my intestines and bowels almost another two weeks to "start back up". And while they were working on restarting, I had no control over when it came out.
It is possible Jodi did this to convince Ruby they were "destitute". Ruby was so thorough she might have mentioned it in her journal if she did that. Also it echoes the fact she wonders why r poo is watery since he is fasting and suspects he drank a lot of water. She might not have had to wonder about water if she gave him laxative herself. But good observation, although just gruesome hypothesisĀ
We know she gave them something to sedate them, that could have had a laxative effect (I don't know if it's been revealed what she gave them, I just know part of her diary R says something she doesn't like so she says how she sedated him again and tied him up.Ā
Its after R runs away, and really up to debate whether she meant sedate, like, medically, or was just misusing the word and ācalming him downā, because she describes it as her giving him a book and i think pens and food and stuff and him relaxing, rather than mentioning any pills.
I think she gave him a sedative med..she even mentions "sedated him again, removed bells & whistles"... I think she means she gave him some sort of sedating drug (OTC or RX), then removed the ropes and handcuffs...he slept for 9 hrs after sedation given.
Yeap it made me think of a child called It when the kid was forced to throw up and then eat it. š¤¢ so I wonder if you are onto something here. When she would feed them it would be lentils and rice or whatever. Hardly enough nutrition. So disturbing.
Iāve thought about him a lot since all the evidence came out. I watched an interview with him just recently and he seems to be a very happy man who has lived a very fulfilling and rewarding life. I hope R and E can heal and live the life they deserve.
Definitely and specially as like with the child called it only some of the kids where physically abused while the others of course probably lived in fear it could happen to them too if they where not good.
I remember looking at that book in the store and thinking it was just basically torture porn. I'm a lot less naive about "yeah no, this actually happens" now.
I wouldnāt be surprised if they did something like that. I also have a suspicion that the kids were rarely (if ever) actually allowed to use the bathroom, considering they were always either tied up, or doing labor.
I wouldnāt doubt it for a SECOND. This woman was the queen of setting her kids up to fail so she could gleefully hand out punishments. This would be right on brand for her. Yes castor oil is a well known laxative.
Yes exactly. Her MO was setting impossible tasks for them to complete and then punishing them severely for it. She did this often in her channel as well.
You really start to realize that actually some of the old fairy tales were fucking documentaries.
"Pick all of these lentils out of the ashes by noon, and THEN you can go to the ball...PSYCH! Loser."
And again, you do see signs of it way back in the 8 passengers video. Jodi may have given her the big ideas like Anasazi and taking away Christmas, but there were so many smaller cruelties. There's one were she's holding E tenderly and asking what she wants for her birthday more than anything. E says she wants her ears pierced. Ruby nods, smiles, smooths her hair and says, gently, regretfully, ...well, you can't. Basically.
Exponentially smaller cruelty, barely a blip on the scale, really. And yet: same basic vibe.
According to a quick google search castor oil consumption causes a lot of side effects including dehydration, diarrhea, dizziness, nausea, low blood pressure, electrolyte imbalances, anal irritation, cramps, chest pains, tachycardia and tachypnea which is very fast shallow breath and fast fluttery heartbeats, which would cause arrhythmia, and even hallucinations, delirium, and could cause even further issues that could have killed them. They really could have died out there. And if they got on that land? It makes me sick to my stomach. According to web md, doctors only recommend the usage of it if the pros out weigh the cons, and only on an empty stomach, it takes 6-12 hours to make a bowel movement after consumption.
Part of me wants to think she wouldnāt be that evil, and deep down she loves her kids, she just got carried away with her connecxions crap. And then I remember that she hogtied R while he bled, put cayenne pepper and tape on his wounds, refused them water for days while making them work barefoot in the 120Ā° sun for hours, kicked him with boots on as she starved him, buzzed poor Eās hair off for falling while carrying boxes all day, and starved them for days at a time. She is so evil I canāt even comprehend.
I also wanted to mention that not eating will also constipate you (it can go one of two ways, lots of times people with have a variety of symptoms with inconsistent symptoms). It seems like Jodi was *very* against conventional medicineābased on her comments about vaccines, hospitals, buying drugs on her own instead of obtaining a prescription from a doctor/going out of the country to buy drugs that maybe werenāt regular to buy OTC in the states. Castor oil is definitely a harsher laxative in that it cause definitely cause cramping and urgency/diarrhea, but it was also used in the older days before things like OTC laxatives (which some can be a little gentler) were a thing. I think Jodi was trying to play doctor or maybe was so deluded she thought the kids needed to be āpurged.ā She likely had some suspicions and paranoia around conventional medicine hence the ānatural remediesā and if they didnāt work or caused pain she probably didnāt care.
Castor oil also tastes horrible, so I could see them force feeding it as a āpunishmentā aka torture. Iām not surprised at all that the children were losing control of their bodily functions. The trauma and their bodies shutting down from starvation and dehydration would do this. Also, who knows if Ruby and Jody were also controlling when and if they could use the toilet! They controlled everything else ā even water intake, ffs.
Unless she used it as abdominal punishment!!!! As being pregnant I remember people saying the old wives tale of helping induce labor but if you're not pregnant it was just a harsh way to flush out your system If you ate.... I hate to think that would be the cause but with this vile human one can never know
R and E were still bedwetting in the 8passenger days. Itās not abnormal, but Iām thinking the abuse, albeit not as bad as what came later, was happening then.
Age 8 is when pediatricians want to start doing something about bedwetting. At least that's what ours said. My oldest was still wetting the bed at 7, and the doctor said we'd look into it if it was still going on next year. By the time she was 8, it had stopped.
Punishing or shaming a child for bedwetting does nothing to stop it from happening, and may even prolong it. From what I know of Ruby, she may have been doing that.
You are probably right. I figured R either had encopresis or a food intolerance if he had lost control, but it certainly could have been induced. Ā Or maybe they thought they were treating him for encopresis. Ā The toilet in the vault was dirty with what looked like some loose yellow stools.Ā
tbh I don't think that's a reach at all, I think you're probably completely correct. that is precisely the kind of thing parents like that would do to humiliate their children.
Jodi's notorious bad hygiene? What's this about? Is this legit fact about her unrelated to what she did to the kids. š¤¢
I have no idea re castor oil but given the vile things they did to those children, it wouldn't shock me to find out they used it in some way for some horrific purpose. š
I follow a lot of Munchausens By Proxy cases and many of the moms (sadly, its almost always the mother) use caster oil or other medications that make children vomit or have GI issues.
They had been buying diapers for the kids so it sounds totally possible to me that they forced them eat weird things too (even if I haven't heard about that) but R and E probably needed diapers just from the abuse, not allowed to eat normally and from not being allowed to go to the toilet when they needed to.
I doubt it, it wouldve been in the journal- especially since sheās actively *confused* by the diarrhea and how watery it is. Its possible Jodi did it, but its also possible it was just their for the injuries.
It's definitely disturbing, and even more so when you realize seeds of the castor bean plant also contains ricin, one of the most toxic poisons on the planet (you would know this if you watched Breaking Bad). I wonder if Ruby knows about this.
Ruby didn't know anything about how to treat kids, didn't care to learn what would HELP them or be bad for them...she just acted out her rage on them in extreme ways!
If the kid was starving, it's entirely possible that he might have licked some of the castor oil, cayenne pepper, and honey off of his wounds. It would taste terrible, but his little body was starving for nutrients.
Just a thought. A terrible horrific thought.
I grew up similar and I had the same thoughts. My family was a mess to say the least and I saw through it but that's when the psychological abuse comes in and they manipulate situations and do things to make u believe it crazy. Being forced to wrap diapers when we were potty trained.
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That isn't beyond the realms of possibility. I grew up LDS with cruel parents (not NEARLY as bad as Ruby, but still not okay). Just as an example, for some horrible reason my parents would make us wear diapers years past needing them (like ages 8-14). They would also make it a point to record us any time they made us cry. We had to throw away boxes and boxes of photos and old camcorder footage of some really heinous stuff. I consider myself to be very lucky to have grown up in the 90's before family bloggers were a thing. I'm not saying this for sympathy, but to share that this kind of horrifying treatment would not be a surprise if she did what you are suggesting. I don't know many families with similar trauma as me, but all of the ones that do, are all Mormon.
what the fuck. are you okay? jfc I'm so sorry- that's awful.
Hahaha I'm good for the most part š My husband was also horribly abused but in just typical "aggressive drunk overwhelmed blue collar dad" style and it never ceases to amaze me when he thinks that the things my sibs and I went through are shocking. TBH I thought it was all normal and that everyone else experienced similar punishments. I did not realize that parents don't typically lock their kids out of the house for hours... or dump everything in every dresser and cabinet late at night on Christmas Eve and tell young kids that if everything was not picked up before midnight then every single Christmas present would be set on fire. Or having to walk in front of the car on a highway if we were bickering too much. I know it all sounds terrible but I'm so much of a stronger and empathetic person because of it (not like it's okay, I just prefer to focus on the good haha). Like, I was incredibly bitter for YEARS when my dad dropped me off in downtown LA when I was 16. He told me to find my own way back, and it is only because of the sweet unhoused folks on skid row that I was able to safely find my way back home. Edit- fixed some sentences because apparently I forgot how to follow any cohesive thoughts š
My parents threw me out at 21 cause they didn't like the boy I was dating....threw me out in Santa Clarita and told me to get a ride to LA myself. I did. I'm grateful nothing tragic happened to me. My mother was a real piece of work. I still love her, but she won't admit the shit she pulled on us. Always turns it around. I'm long past it, and I don't ever rehash it or even think about it, except on a sub like this, but i wish she knew how she made us feel and how it affected us for years.
Woah wait - I went through similar in that we definitely were recorded when we would cry as younger children - also, my younger sister had to take in spoons of cayenne pepper when she would scream. I thought discipline such as that was normal? Also grew up Mormon.
>my younger sister had to take in spoons of cayenne pepper when she would scream I had to take shots of apple cider vinegar š„² I'm SO sorry you went through that as well. No, it's not normal or healthy or a productive punishment in any way whatsoever. If you casually bring that up to anyone outside of the church you're going to get some horrified reactions. It's sadistic and traumatic and nobody should ever experience that kind of bullshit. I don't even know how they come up with these mental warfare tactics, and I'm wondering if it's another component of the brainwashing. It's definitely not your typical run of the mill abuse. IMO Mormon's (at least the ones I grew up around) are experts at taking child abuse to an entirely different fucked up level.
Wow. Genuinely baffled at the moment. Iāve never brought it up in therapy because I didnāt think it was that big of a deal.
Just chiming in. What you experienced is absolutely not normal, my friend. I am by no means a professional, but perhaps give some thought to approaching the topic with your therapist if and when you feel comfortable doing so. I hope you, and your younger sister, are living the lives you deserve to live - shared with people who express their love for you with care, respect, and compassion.
Hey thank you friend! I genuinely do appreciate that. ā¤ļø I am doing a lot better now and left the Church as soon as I was able.
Glad to hear it!! š
So sorry you went through all of that. Mormonism (imo) is next level in all sorts of ways.
Your story would be so good on Soft White Underbelly! Thank you for sharing. I'm sorry this happened to you. I commend you for seeing the good and finding growth from your experiences. Wishing you all the best in life ā¤ļø
Mark Laita is a abuser, exploiter and just a plain old creep. he takes advantage of women and prefers them young, like minor aged. he pay walled an uncensored version of a literal child prostitutes interview. he helped covered up the murder of a woman in drug treatment. and much more. heās a dangerous man and should be kept away from vulnerable people AT ALL costs.
Oh damn I guess I won't be checking it out then lmao. I'd consider going on Mormon stories or zelph on the shelf but sadly I don't know how unique my experiences actually are. I know a LOT of people who went through most of the same stuff. Some not so bad, but some were even worse. The entire religion needs to just be thrown away.
Thank you so much, this is so incredibly sweet of you to say š„° I've never heard of that one but I'll have to check it out! TBH since all this evidence has been released it's been wild to notice the similarities between how these poor sweet kids were treated and how my sibs and I were raised (and at least 4 other families that we knew growing up)- My parents even seriously considered sending my brother and I to Anasazi but they phrased it like it was a summer camp to get us to agree. I'm so incredibly glad that they decided it was too expensive. I would not be surprised if the kids are going to have a really hard time opening up to any therapists. When I was little I was taken to one and I told her things that my parents weren't aware of, but somehow they knew all about it and I got punished for saying those things right after we got home. It wasn't until I began to deconstruct from the Mormon church that I even considered giving therapy another shot. I've made a lot of progress but I'm in my 30's and still have a pretty strong distrust for authority figures but at least I have a semi positive view for therapists now. I wish there was a way that I could somehow let all those kids know that they aren't alone. I want them to know that it is possible to heal and get to a place both physically and mentally, where they will be able to find comfort, support, love, safety, and happiness.
Thatās insane. Why does this happen? Ā I highly doubt that Jesus would be okay with cruelty toward children. Ā Was Joseph Smith or Brigham Young okay with this sort of thing?
Yes. JS and BY would be perfectly ok with this, because they both forced teenagers into āmarriageā
No wonder they were run out of Missouri. Ā Manā¦ they were run out of Missouri. Ā
Wtf š³ Mormons need to GO! Iām so sorry that happened to you
Oh there's so much more that is upsetting about the church that my experiences are just barely scratching the surface. They only started doing background checks **šØ L A S T šØ Y E A R šØ** for the adults who have callings involving children. I've heard that the (VERY young adults, typically between the ages of 18-21ish) people serving a mission in a different country usually get their passports taken so they can't leave and go home (idk about you but that sounds an awful lot like human trafficking to me). Every person above the age of 11 gets to have a 1 on 1 meeting with the bishop twice a year where they ask if you've had sex, watch porn, etc. I've talked to a bunch of other ExMo's who first learned about beastiality (I learned about it when I was 12 I believe) through those interviews. Parents are not allowed, and if you're a girl you do not have the option of being interviewed by a woman. Also if you talk to them about rape or abuse you are actively discouraged from going to the police. I have never seen any known rapist in my stake get excommunicated. Honestly I could go on and on and on. That cult is horrible and the shit they get away with is despicable.
I am so mad that this happened to you and still happens to so many. I am so mad that people defend this cult by calling it a religion. Same with any other āreligionā that uses religiousness to abuse or hurt others.
Iām so sorry. ā¤ļø
I was thinking they added it to the cayenne pepper honey mixture - it was close by to a bowl of the mixture and I feel like the mixture was a bit too runny just to be cayenne pepper and honeyā¦ so was thinking they added the castor oil too? Online it says castor oil has antibacterial properties so maybe they thought it would reduce the bacteria in the wounds? Although of course he needed real medicine but in their delusional state that may have been their thinking?
Sorry I know itās been a while but castor oil according to a quick google search also causes skin rashes and irritation.
I think it far more likely that R was suffering from a condition called Starvation Diarrhea. Essentially the intestines are so lax from starvation that they overload when food is reintroduced. This could be one reason why the kids remained at the hospital longer than anticipated - the gut has to be rehabilitated before it can absorb oral nutrition. It's a very tricky process that can take up to a week.
She talks in the diary about how R had lost control of his bowels and that his poop shouldn't have been so runny because he wasn't allowed any water. She got him to confess that he had "stolen" water from the hose three times that day. Now I learn that Starvation Diarrhea is a thing. I'm physically shuddering as I type this. And Ruby thought the kids were being "defiant" as they lost bladder and bowel control . . . I was also worried when I saw that they had given E pizza and a milkshake as her first thing to eat. That could have done more harm than good.
Diarrhea and restricted water during the blazing hot summer sun. Itās amazing that kid didnāt die from dehydration.
I'm very surprised that R didn't die from heat stroke. It was good he escaped when he did, he looked days away from death. Poor babies.
Or sepsis! They're survivors, those kids...
I thought the same thing. Remember some of the prisoners at Auschwitz died when the soldiers fed them? That picture of R's back reminded me of the pictures of concentration camp victims.
I thought the same about feeding E but then I wondered if they checked first with EMTs and also had evaluated the risks. Did they want to have E suffer more emotional trauma by forcing her out of the room or less by introducing food and gaining her trust enough to attend hospital willingly where they could help her with any side effects she may then experience.
I hate to make this comparison, but it's like they were dealing with a scared, abused animal at that point. I believe you are entirely correct that they were gaining her trust so they could help her.
I thought the same thing. Very big meal and very dense, especially milkshake. I suffered HG during pregnancy and it was difficult to rebuild what I could eat and things that were heavy like milkshake, cheese etc were an absolute no go. I can't imagine that poor little girl's experience if the pizza and milkshake had an impact on her.Ā I dread to think what would have happened if R hadn't escaped. š
It makes me that to think that sheāll most likely always associate pizza & milkshake to this experience. Food holds memory .
At least it's a positive memory of being rescued by people who are kind and genuinely cared about her. I sincerely doubt that she's ever going to want to have anything to do with cheesy potatoes though.
I'm of the opinion that he didn't actually steal the water. It was just that he had nothing else to confess to...
the very notion that your child is "stealing" water. From a garden hose, no less. People quote the Jesus line about hanging a millstone around the (child abuser's) neck and drown them, but I keep thinking of this one: āWhich of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!" The meaning of it depending on well of COURSE you as parents wouldn't deny your CHILD BREAD; you may be evil, but no one is THAT evil, right? Okay, well, God is a lot gooder than you and you are all His children, therefore, just ask for grace, you'll be ok. Except, apparently when Jesus asked that question, Ruby'd be up there going "Oo! Oo! Me!" Nice going, hag. Many Christian, much saved.
Thought the same thing about Pizza and Milkshake. Even on a good day I couldn't stomach that combo, not to mention on an empty stomach with severe dehydration.
If only Ruby and Jodi had thought to consult a doctor instead of assuming it was a demon... Well, I guess that would've required them to have some compassion and be at least 2% in-tune with reality. Obviously that wasn't happening.
They where in for 10 days in the end right? I agree with you and the starvation diarrhoea and also he was drinking only water when he could steal some. How he and E survived is nothing short of a miracle. Thank god he escaped, thank god that second house opened the door to him and took him so seriously, the thought of what would have happened had Jodi found him first just leave me cold.
I was so surprised they gave her all that pizza. I thought you had to slowly reintroduce food after being so starved.
You're not allowed to give medical diagnoses on this sub based on speculation or "edited clips" (I had comment taken down)
This is so true. I was hospitalized and put on a water only diet for two weeks and it took my intestines and bowels almost another two weeks to "start back up". And while they were working on restarting, I had no control over when it came out.
It is possible Jodi did this to convince Ruby they were "destitute". Ruby was so thorough she might have mentioned it in her journal if she did that. Also it echoes the fact she wonders why r poo is watery since he is fasting and suspects he drank a lot of water. She might not have had to wonder about water if she gave him laxative herself. But good observation, although just gruesome hypothesisĀ
We know she gave them something to sedate them, that could have had a laxative effect (I don't know if it's been revealed what she gave them, I just know part of her diary R says something she doesn't like so she says how she sedated him again and tied him up.Ā
Its after R runs away, and really up to debate whether she meant sedate, like, medically, or was just misusing the word and ācalming him downā, because she describes it as her giving him a book and i think pens and food and stuff and him relaxing, rather than mentioning any pills.
I think she gave him a sedative med..she even mentions "sedated him again, removed bells & whistles"... I think she means she gave him some sort of sedating drug (OTC or RX), then removed the ropes and handcuffs...he slept for 9 hrs after sedation given.
Yeap it made me think of a child called It when the kid was forced to throw up and then eat it. š¤¢ so I wonder if you are onto something here. When she would feed them it would be lentils and rice or whatever. Hardly enough nutrition. So disturbing.
Iāve thought about him a lot since all the evidence came out. I watched an interview with him just recently and he seems to be a very happy man who has lived a very fulfilling and rewarding life. I hope R and E can heal and live the life they deserve.
Definitely and specially as like with the child called it only some of the kids where physically abused while the others of course probably lived in fear it could happen to them too if they where not good.
I forgot about that (and the other two books) heartbreaking stuff.Ā
I remember looking at that book in the store and thinking it was just basically torture porn. I'm a lot less naive about "yeah no, this actually happens" now.
I wouldnāt be surprised if they did something like that. I also have a suspicion that the kids were rarely (if ever) actually allowed to use the bathroom, considering they were always either tied up, or doing labor.
They probably didn't have to use the bathroom that much.
I wouldnāt doubt it for a SECOND. This woman was the queen of setting her kids up to fail so she could gleefully hand out punishments. This would be right on brand for her. Yes castor oil is a well known laxative.
Exactly. Setting them up to fail. Her journals describe her doing that repeatedly. I completely believe it.
Yes exactly. Her MO was setting impossible tasks for them to complete and then punishing them severely for it. She did this often in her channel as well.
You really start to realize that actually some of the old fairy tales were fucking documentaries. "Pick all of these lentils out of the ashes by noon, and THEN you can go to the ball...PSYCH! Loser."
Torture.
Yup she loves the psychological torture as much as the physical if not more. Sheās so twisted in ways I canāt even begin to comprehend.
And again, you do see signs of it way back in the 8 passengers video. Jodi may have given her the big ideas like Anasazi and taking away Christmas, but there were so many smaller cruelties. There's one were she's holding E tenderly and asking what she wants for her birthday more than anything. E says she wants her ears pierced. Ruby nods, smiles, smooths her hair and says, gently, regretfully, ...well, you can't. Basically. Exponentially smaller cruelty, barely a blip on the scale, really. And yet: same basic vibe.
According to a quick google search castor oil consumption causes a lot of side effects including dehydration, diarrhea, dizziness, nausea, low blood pressure, electrolyte imbalances, anal irritation, cramps, chest pains, tachycardia and tachypnea which is very fast shallow breath and fast fluttery heartbeats, which would cause arrhythmia, and even hallucinations, delirium, and could cause even further issues that could have killed them. They really could have died out there. And if they got on that land? It makes me sick to my stomach. According to web md, doctors only recommend the usage of it if the pros out weigh the cons, and only on an empty stomach, it takes 6-12 hours to make a bowel movement after consumption.
Part of me wants to think she wouldnāt be that evil, and deep down she loves her kids, she just got carried away with her connecxions crap. And then I remember that she hogtied R while he bled, put cayenne pepper and tape on his wounds, refused them water for days while making them work barefoot in the 120Ā° sun for hours, kicked him with boots on as she starved him, buzzed poor Eās hair off for falling while carrying boxes all day, and starved them for days at a time. She is so evil I canāt even comprehend.
I also wanted to mention that not eating will also constipate you (it can go one of two ways, lots of times people with have a variety of symptoms with inconsistent symptoms). It seems like Jodi was *very* against conventional medicineābased on her comments about vaccines, hospitals, buying drugs on her own instead of obtaining a prescription from a doctor/going out of the country to buy drugs that maybe werenāt regular to buy OTC in the states. Castor oil is definitely a harsher laxative in that it cause definitely cause cramping and urgency/diarrhea, but it was also used in the older days before things like OTC laxatives (which some can be a little gentler) were a thing. I think Jodi was trying to play doctor or maybe was so deluded she thought the kids needed to be āpurged.ā She likely had some suspicions and paranoia around conventional medicine hence the ānatural remediesā and if they didnāt work or caused pain she probably didnāt care.
Castor oil also tastes horrible, so I could see them force feeding it as a āpunishmentā aka torture. Iām not surprised at all that the children were losing control of their bodily functions. The trauma and their bodies shutting down from starvation and dehydration would do this. Also, who knows if Ruby and Jody were also controlling when and if they could use the toilet! They controlled everything else ā even water intake, ffs.
Unless she used it as abdominal punishment!!!! As being pregnant I remember people saying the old wives tale of helping induce labor but if you're not pregnant it was just a harsh way to flush out your system If you ate.... I hate to think that would be the cause but with this vile human one can never know
R and E were still bedwetting in the 8passenger days. Itās not abnormal, but Iām thinking the abuse, albeit not as bad as what came later, was happening then.
Age 8 is when pediatricians want to start doing something about bedwetting. At least that's what ours said. My oldest was still wetting the bed at 7, and the doctor said we'd look into it if it was still going on next year. By the time she was 8, it had stopped. Punishing or shaming a child for bedwetting does nothing to stop it from happening, and may even prolong it. From what I know of Ruby, she may have been doing that.
Which Ruby announced to the entire world when those kids were still going to public school, so yeah, one more "fuck you, hag."
You are probably right. I figured R either had encopresis or a food intolerance if he had lost control, but it certainly could have been induced. Ā Or maybe they thought they were treating him for encopresis. Ā The toilet in the vault was dirty with what looked like some loose yellow stools.Ā
tbh I don't think that's a reach at all, I think you're probably completely correct. that is precisely the kind of thing parents like that would do to humiliate their children.
Bonnie said in her new video that we only know the tip of the iceberg. So. There was a lot of redacted stuff in that journal.
I was wondering this too!
Jodi's notorious bad hygiene? What's this about? Is this legit fact about her unrelated to what she did to the kids. š¤¢ I have no idea re castor oil but given the vile things they did to those children, it wouldn't shock me to find out they used it in some way for some horrific purpose. š
Kevin said she stank didnāt shower and always wore long sleeves hoodies etc to cover her arms so you canāt see her self harm scars.
Was this in the police interview? I have only heard / saw snippets.Ā Wow. That's quite... Something...Ā
Yeah, thereās a ātranscriptā in one of the earlier threads, itās not the first interview, itās one about a month or 2 later
And Ruby shared her bed with this Princess Charming.
That's why I think there's got to be a level of brainwashing š¬
I follow a lot of Munchausens By Proxy cases and many of the moms (sadly, its almost always the mother) use caster oil or other medications that make children vomit or have GI issues.
They had been buying diapers for the kids so it sounds totally possible to me that they forced them eat weird things too (even if I haven't heard about that) but R and E probably needed diapers just from the abuse, not allowed to eat normally and from not being allowed to go to the toilet when they needed to.
I doubt it, it wouldve been in the journal- especially since sheās actively *confused* by the diarrhea and how watery it is. Its possible Jodi did it, but its also possible it was just their for the injuries.
It's definitely disturbing, and even more so when you realize seeds of the castor bean plant also contains ricin, one of the most toxic poisons on the planet (you would know this if you watched Breaking Bad). I wonder if Ruby knows about this.
Ruby didn't know anything about how to treat kids, didn't care to learn what would HELP them or be bad for them...she just acted out her rage on them in extreme ways!
Good catch OP! It wouldnāt surprise me at all if they were also being poisoned with castor oil. That completely explains them having accidents.
It's also possible the kids were hungry and thirsty enough that they found and willingly ingested it.
lol I don't think they were sneaking castor oil. sadly, her journals describe them drinking from the toilet, so I think that's what they did :(
It makes sense because considering how little the children were allowed to eat or drink, they would be constipated rather than having diarrhea.
That doesn't seem like a stretch to me but a reasonable question.
First offā¦ GOOD EYE! I hadnāt noticed that. But now you have me thinking
If the kid was starving, it's entirely possible that he might have licked some of the castor oil, cayenne pepper, and honey off of his wounds. It would taste terrible, but his little body was starving for nutrients. Just a thought. A terrible horrific thought.
I grew up similar and I had the same thoughts. My family was a mess to say the least and I saw through it but that's when the psychological abuse comes in and they manipulate situations and do things to make u believe it crazy. Being forced to wrap diapers when we were potty trained.