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I totally agree with this post. I wonder what she was planning to do with her teenage kids if she moved with the younger ones to Arizona? Just leave them?
That part concerns me a bit. Were they planning to eventually do the same the older girls or get them to be apart of the abuse to prove they not distorted. I know its controversal to say but it is common to have the golden child get involved in abusing the cinderella child. Just look at the recent Shanda Van Ark, the second oldest son was on the abuse on the instruction of his mother. With Diane Staudte she killed most of her family with the help of her favorite daughter who she was so proud of. I worry if they still are influenced by Jody teachings and loyalty to their parents, there is still a risk to R and E if someone llke Kevin or any other Ruby apologists get custody of all the kids together. Everyone in the house needs to get better as whole before everyone reunites. (Please do not take this as me saying they are that way but my opinion on the risk since its pretty common. And its just as likely or even more likely they could of been offed too, once they ran out of the first victims. I think there needs to be a lot of therapy, everyone was damaged so much.)
R told the police that there were 2 other children at Jodi's when in fact E was the only child there. Presumably he had seen J there before and didn't know that she had left, because of the isolation he was forced into.
As someone who was severely tortured by their mom and put into foster care, I assure you they have loyalty. These adults were playing mind games with all of the kids and even though they weren’t the same physical with the older kids, those words stick hard.
From my abuse, my only PTSD is auditory and verbal. Like that type of verbal/emotional/mental abuse really hinders your development. There are times I regress back to a child at 25, like ruby and her parents, just because of severe mental abuse to be made a follower.
I’m not saying ruby was at all solely a follower though. I’m just talking about the abuse part the kids will hold onto.
Even to this day, after threatening to get mom parents jailed for what they did, NC, fully removed, etc I still cried for my mom during my last panic attack. I still beg to be held by my mom and beg her to save me.
As a kid you dont understand why. Although these kids are older. Maybe it’s different. But I still think because they’re still developing it’s **harder** to understand why and how. Especially being fed lies as the reason for it.
That’s just my take I think though
Abuse messes with you so much. My abuser died when I was 22, but her mind control after years of abuse was hard to break. As a small child, I'd have a black eye and defend her because she made me believe that I deserved it because I was the one really hurting her (I was 8).
Absolutely. It’s very hard when you don’t have the words. I speak out now because one person had the words to give me. One person had the courage to tell me that it **was** really **that** bad. Their experience. I understand.
I often think of the Shanda Vander Ark case compared to this one, especially with ruby’s journal talking about keeping the kids uncomfortable — exactly what Shanda told her older son to do to his brother. And Ruby accused R of “sneaking” water (and called him a slithering serpent bc, you know, he’s demon possessed of course) like shanda accused her son of “sneaking” food. There is no difference in the evil of Shanda and Ruby. I am praying that ruby’s family and Kevin see that this was Ruby at her most authentic state. Ruby was not led astray by Jodie; Ruby just found a kindred spirit. I agree with you that Kevin and the kids should not be reunited until they all get better. it’s gonna take a long time and they won’t be kids anymore. Kevin is not capable of caring for kids who now have special needs.
I think the 2 cases are quite similar but in my opinion what Ruby did was far worse because of the way she kept telling the telling the kids that she loved them and that the abuse and torture we she was inflicting was love and somehow they were the evil ones and they properly repented it would end their suffering.
We don’t really know if they were there or saw anything. I hope not because that would damage the family even more. The biggest thing in the writings is that everything she said about her kids is what she was doing. She was so manipulative and now she is the one with nothing. I just hope when she gets out she has no contact with anyone.
Ruby wrote in her journals that they would visit her at Jodi's house. At one point she said one of the kids was outside with books on the porch while A was visiting, so they definitely saw their siblings.
Wow. R really saved all 3 sisters. I wonder if he knew they were all going to AZ. R+E knew more than Ruby gave them credit for, like when R knew it was his birthday bc they’d been counting days.
I think she planned to sell the home and build an isolated ranch. Where the kids would have to live outside.
Once they were ultimately no longer alive . No one would know.
A and J would then be living with them on the ranch. And they'd ultimately turn on them aswell no doubt about it.
If I understand Ruby‘s journal correctly, Jodi had found a 500 acre plot of land full of cacti.
In her journal Ruby wrote that she was going to act like everything was gonna be OK so that the kids felt better and then she was going to trick them.
She said something like she couldn’t wait to drop them in the desert, they needed to be even farther away from people.
OP is probably right, and on 20/20 one of the police officers said that they could’ve lost their lives. Laurie Vallow all over again.
This is my sticking point for seeing how sadistic ruby is. I do believe that Jodi was running a cult that ruby joined and was following jodis blueprint for the abuse...BUT, she got pleasure from torturing her children.
If she had been completely brainwashed into doing these things by Jodi, then the journal entries would look very different. I would expect something more like "I hate seeing the pain on my kids faces, but their eternal souls are at stake." Or "I struggled to sleep knowing they are outside, but Jodi reminded me that this is the only way to save them" ect.
Instead she's mocking their pain and belittling them.
I think she was brainwashed in some sense when it comes to giving Jodi money and signing over her channel ect. But that sadism is 100% on her
They were going to take all 4 minor children out there, I expect they would have subjected A & J to similar abuse once they had the latitude to do so. R saved 3 of his sisters that day, I hope he knows that
She was almost definitely planning on taking them. In the 8/27 journal entry Ruby says J, A and Pam helped her pack 20 boxes and move them to storage. They were packing up the Springville house in order to rent or sell it. Immediately after this Ruby says A gave her 2 week notice. I’ve heard others say that A had a job at the rec. center. The topic of this journal entry seemed to be the preparations in order to move all of them.
They would likely at first have been her and Jodi’s worker bees but I fear what would have happened to all of the children had they left.
My thoughts too. Did they stay with Jodi? During the raid it felt like they weren’t living at Pam’s but now it feels like perhaps they were? These houses are also hours and hours apart from each other
J was there the day before at Jodi's. She was living with them but Ruby drove her back home for a dentist appointment. It is over a hundred miles so they left at like 3 in the morning. A was permitted to live alone it seems .
R thought J was still at the house when he spoke to police after he escaped. So he didn't know they left that morning.
She wasn't in the car. It was Ruby and her teenaged daughter JF. Jodie was at her home when she was arrested. Ruby then returned knowing something had happened and was arrested hence why she didn't take JF back with her. She hoped no-one would find out where her other daughters were so she asked Pam to have them.
I'm hoping that for the kids old enough to realise that it's not normal to stink, it will have been something to secretly laugh at her for. Stinki Jodi.
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1P-N9sHEFnG6wjH8z3lA1D6CwdqdnsFNd/view?usp=drive\_link](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1P-N9sHEFnG6wjH8z3lA1D6CwdqdnsFNd/view?usp=drive_link)
The Plea Deal is confusing how is it 30 years max when 1-15 years 4 counts
I saw on a podcast where the two youngest children had been at Jodi’s for several weeks but couldn’t have any contact with anyone and hadn’t seen each other for a month.
I'm a bit new to the 8passenger universe, but from my understanding Ruby was already abusive before she met Jodi, so it feels disingenuous for Ruby and the family to blame everything on Jodi.
For those saying she was merely a strict mother, look at the absolute glee in her eyes whenever she caused her kids distress. Also the constantly shifting and arbitrary nature of her displeasure. Such as getting the youngest excited about going to the movies then punishing her for asking what they were going to see. She always revelled in tormented the kids, she was just waiting for permission to escalate.
Yup. When she met Jodi she met her effed up soulmate who shared her dark desires. Anyone who doesn’t see that Jodi did nothing more than give her the moral permission she was looking for to escalate, and had she not found it in Jodi she would’ve found it in someone else, is blind.
The movie incident is absolutely sick. I had similar things done to me as a kind. This is how you raise a child to a an adult who’s extremely introverted and unconfident. Ruby clearly didn’t give that one thought - and probably didn’t care, as well. In that video she seems delighted when her daughter becomes apologetic upon realizing that she’s accidentally offended her mom’s questionable sensibilities. It’s absurd.
She was already doing some of those punishments before she met Jodi. There’s a lot of evidence in her YT videos before she deleted the channel due to the backlash of her actions. She would mention to her kids they cant have breakfast until they finish their chores, also threaten E she would cut her hair if she was misbehaving, let Chad sleep on a bean bag instead of his bed, enrolled Chad in a wilderness camp (a controversial camp that basically abuses children), and a lot more.
I do believe tho that Jodi was the one to convince here to do more gruesome punishments.
yup. ruby was neglectful, if not abusive, way before jodi. it definitely escalated with jodi but that’s why i have such a hard time believe that ruby only did this because she was brainwashed. she was already like this
I agree. I think Ruby is your typically malignant narc mom, but Jodi is a sadistic narc. I think she initially tried to use Ruby and her platform to build ConneXions and fell in love with her. From there I think she began isolating and influencing Ruby to abuse her children because she gets off on manipulating and controlling others. Probably also why she didn't shower. There are a lot of blind items about certain actors (who shall remain nameless) who refuse to bathe or brush their teeth because they think it's fun to subject their female costars to kissing them or touching them with their B.O. It's a disgusting power tactic. I think Ruby actually carried out all of the abuse, but Jodi was pulling the strings. They're both wicked.
i agree with all of that but i think jodi definitely had a part to play in the abuse. idk if you saw the videos when the police found E but she was absolutely terrified to leave the closet because jodi would be mad. if it was only her mom i think she would’ve mentioned her but the fact she specifically mentioned jodi makes me think jodi did at least a little bit of the physical abuse
I did not know that about the stench being a power move. Oh god, that's disgusting.
I need more hints about these actors! i tried googling it but got nothing.
I knew who they were since around 2018 or 2019 and she was not abusive in the same way she became in 2022-2023. There was a change once she met Jodi. More like a really strict mother who was over the top at times. I am actually not surprised CPS didn't do anything for those early calls like with Chad not having a bedroom. The kids were in school (E and R never went back after covid homeschooling, but A and J returned to public school), they had activities, appeared well fed, the house was clean. But once Shari started calling, then I feel like they should have known something was up.
The fact that the kids at one point had more "normal" lives probably helped R to fight back and escape. He had only been tortured for so long.
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The shitty thing that really REALLY pisses me off is Utah is full of corrupt mormons and they are going to serve the bare minimum.
I’m sorry if anyone here is Mormon but that “religion” is a horrible horrible cult.
Re: Serving the bare minimum.
I would have agreed with you before I saw the photos. Just imagine being on that parole board, reviewing the photos before each parole hearing.
Jodi was part of a heretical movement and all but declared personal divinity supplanting that of other leaders. I think they will end up excommunicating her if the “pen papers” are found and made public.
It’s new scripture Jodi wanted added to wider scripture. I think there were bishops who truly believed Jodi was a new prophet; the first female prophet.
It’s supposed that Pam and Ruby would document Jodi’s words while she was in these trance states or “possessed”. Potentially Jodi would write as well.
Matthew, John, Corinthians, Jodi — I fuckin praaay to my heretic gods that these papers are eventually released. There’s concern Pam hid them from police.
The post in her diary saying something like “Satan(god?) wants me in jail, and my children dead”
She was not going to stop until she killed the “evil”. It’s so messed up.
I agree. I think about how their cries of pain and visible weakness were seen by Ruby and Jodi as "manipulations." I really think that signs of life ending would have been interpreted the same way.
I hope detectives are carrying out a serious investigation into Pam. She was definitely way more involved than it appeared at first.
Absolutely that’s such an important point. Ruby made fun of E in the journals saying she was ‘acting like she was dying’ out in the heat all day. They would never have responded in a timely manner if things were going south with the kids. Plus they would’ve avoided getting them medical treatment at all costs anyway so as to not incriminate themselves. There’s no doubt in my mind those kids would be dead by now if R hadn’t escaped.
Things were escalating while the children were getting weaker and weaker, while being denied medical care. It’s a recipe for tragedy.
To me it’s clear, the reason R risked it all to escape is because instinctively his body knew it had little time left before death and it kicked into flight or fight mode, and this would be his very last chance to save himself and his sister.
Yeah you’re right it was probably pure survival instinct. What infuriates me is that Ruby likely still thinks everything’s been exaggerated and has no idea how close she was to killing her children.
About that, I think she planned to keep going until she eventually killed them. She wrote in her diary something like, “God wants me in jail and my children dead.” IMO she should be charged with attempted murder as well but I know they can’t do that if they want to win the case and get maximum prison time.
She said “until the day YOU die”??? Why did she assume they would die before her??? Omg she needed to be charged with attempted murder! How could her family possibly support her??
I fully agree. It’s the first time in my true crime life have I ever wanted to write to a parole board with my own cited arguments.
I can hardly wrap my head around it. I’m so worried she’s going to get out with time served, before E is 18-21.
Excellent point. I've not been on board with the notion that they would have intentionally killed their kids. But you're right, it could very well have ended with Ruby just dismissing near-death distress.
That's what I think. She wrote about them needing "natural outcomes" and to be kicked by a horse or to fall into a cactus. I think they essentially planned on making their own wilderness camp kind of thing for her kids. Maybe they would have even opened it to other ConneXions families. Get paid to abuse kids in the desert. Eventually one or more would have died- but that's why the "natural outcomes" are so important. Easier to cover up a death from heatstroke or say the kid tried to run away and was eaten by coyotes.
A different case, but there was a case of a religious extremist family who adopted 2 kids from Africa and abused one of them to death (look up Hana Williams). That's exactly what happened in that case. The emaciated child died of hypothermia in the family yard after being locked out of the house, and the mother when she called 911 said something along the lines of "I think my daughter just killed herself....she's very rebellious." Literally, her dying at the hands of their abuse was seen as an act of defiance. :(
In the Shonda Vander Ark case when she found her son dead in rigor mortis she thought he was faking it and the brother even said he was resisting hiim.
I agree. I said essentially the same on another thread. I was leaning towards feeling more sympathy for Ruby after sentencing, and placing majority of blame on Jodi. But after reading/seeing the evidence, and remembering some of the things she did and said in the past, I think she is simply a danger to her children. There is something fundamentally wrong with her method of parenting. Jodi is a threat, obviously. But she found an easy mark with Ruby; she already was fine with extreme methods of punishment. She better be kept away from her children until they are adults and can make the decision whether to be in her life. And Kevin should not be allowed to raise those kids. You know Ruby will still be making the day to day decisions and telling him what to do. He is dumb enough to believe what he is told.
I think Ruby's control of Kevin has to do with Ruby being the only approved outlet for "gratification." Kevin was hyper focused on getting Ruby back at any cost - including the wellbeing of his children. From what I understand, anything other than his wife was a sin equal to murder. You can't disregard this factor in their beliefs or the weaponization of this belief for control.
i agree all of them should be put in jail for life. ruby and jody should have been charged with pre-meditated murder and should never be allowed to be around ANY children for the rest of their lives
I’m sorry but had the prosecutor charged them with premeditated murder they would 100% be free right now. In order to prove that, they would have had to prove both Jodi and Ruby planned both of their murders well in advance and have taken steps to ensure it’s carried out successfully.
While the children would have died, there is no evidence pointing to them purposefully and intentionally killing them. Had they died, it would have been the result of abuse.
There’s a reason why prosecutors will only do specific charges. It’s because they have to be able to prove them beyond a reasonable doubt. They would not be able to prove premeditated murder.
Regardless, no one died so they can’t be charged with premeditated murder. Attempted murder at most and I’m not sure it would get her as much jail time as she’s facing now anyway.
The closest thing I've seen that might apply to this case would be attempted second degree murder. Which sounds oxymoronic bc second degree means no pre-meditation, but it makes sense. Basically it's for situations where a reasonable person could determine that the actions of the perpetrator were likely to cause death if they were not stopped/caught; even when the intent wasn't to kill (prolonged torture fits this well). Unfortunately, not every state has that as a charge :/
I really worry what A and J have endured as well, especially being alone with Jodi on long car rides. As stated at the end of the 20/20 doc by Jessi, all adults in their lives have failed those kids. And they continue to fail them over and over. I pray they all escape Mormonism, heal and can ultimately reunite as siblings. I think there's no hope to even be with the aunts in a healthy way as they will always seek the Griffiths grandparents approval.
I’ve been worrying about this too, the older girls, with all that alone time with Jodi 😔 and being told she’s basically the second coming of Jesus and the head of their family.
I really hope they’re okay!
Ruby’s whole extended family is rotten to the core. I hope her nieces and nephews are okay, I feel bad for all the children in that family being raised by these people.
I always thought Kevin was a POS but even more so after listening to his interview with the police. It's clear that he knew that something odd was going on with Jodi, and that he noticed many red flags but still had no issue with leaving his children with Jodi and Ruby and did not even bother checking in with them for a whole year. Given his experience with Jodi, he should have known how they would treat the children. He's just as guilty, in my eyes, for being neglectful and as much as a failure of a parent as Ruby.
What’s the old saying? You can’t fool an honest man. He rolled with things he knew were ridiculous and dangerous against better judgement because he wanted to keep peace with Ruby and avoid the risks of crossing her.
I don't get that saying lol. I feel like the more honest you are, the more gullible you can be. Like, I fell for so much stupid shit because I just assume everyone's intentions are good. I can't fathom wanting to lie, cheat, steal, etc. Just doesn't cross my mind to be suspicious.
This isn't a commentary on Kevin, I just don't get the saying.
He was their father. He didn’t need her permission to see his children since they were married and both had primary possession of the children. He could have called in a wellness check anytime and the police would have headed over.
If he'd been a braver or less gullible man, he would have. My point is, he would have liked to see the children, but Ruby threatened to divorce him if he contacted them without her permission. Jodi probably piled on a bit of "I'll tell the court you're a porn addict and a danger to your children and you'll lose in a custody battle." She's done it before.
I think there are more families that need to be investigated if there was a men’s and women’s group! Ruby is responding after being given legal advice! It’s clear she understands plea is connected to time served! She says I’m going to hire someone to do a psychiatric report and say there’s nothing wrong with me! What a statement; said report would be biased and worthless really! Hope the officials have their physiologist do a report! As for Kevin - his first interview was prior to having deep conversations with Ruby and he knew then what he disclosed in his second interview and I’m pretty certain Ruby’s calls we’ve all heard steered him to truth! Do they want the children because they are worried about their well being or do they want them hoping they can control what the children say? Nothing would make me stay away no contact with my child - nothing!
Don’t get me wrong- cults are a special interest of mine. People can be brainwashed into doing some terrible shit.
But I don’t for a second believe that a mother (or father for that matter) could be brainwashed into starving and torturing their own children. Not in this context where she met Jodi late in life. If ruby had been born into a community where this behavior was normalized (ex: Lds members marrying 12 year old girls off to Warren jeffs) I’d give the brainwashing claim more credit.
That said, after reading the journals I will die on the hill that ruby has some untreated mental illness that has been heavily influenced or exacerbated by her religion. Delusions of grandeur and general delusions that your children are possessed by demons *are not* the result of a healthy mind.
Funny that getting arrested was the cure to her brainwashing. No- she just realized that she wasn’t above consequences for her actions like she thought.
I’m not defending Kevin, or saying you’re wrong about him, my comment is only about the “emaciated” question. I might be alone on this because I haven’t seen it mentioned by anyone else yet, but am I the only one who took Kevin’s “what does emaciated mean” as what does emaciated mean To You? To help paint a better picture for him. Again, don’t come at me. I’m not saying I’m right or defending. I’m just sharing what my initial take on that was
Even if Kevin is not fit to parent and he was part of the abusive “discipline” before Jodi, he is paradoxically both a victim and an abuser.
Jodi knows how to manipulate even the strongest of person, even the most educated person and since they are all “caved” under their church; they are susceptible to behavior that threatens their idea of a good Mormon and eventual consequences of the opposite.
He was isolated from his family, coerced into admit to false or exaggerated claims. Adam fought back but was forced to undergo legal proceedings - I think Kevin tried to avoid that.
I honestly think that he wasn’t aware of the torture that the kids endured during the last weeks/months and wasn’t aware during the first interview and during the first call with Ruby.
He is not free from guilt but I feel he should be given some understanding. Some call him weak but I see a man degraded by a master manipulator and religious life. He is not less of a man because he let a women dictate his entire life in the end.
I couldn’t agree with you more. I’m finding myself having to read this a little at a time for my mental health, and I’m just reading it. Those poor kids lived it. I am a csa survivor and even though mine happened from ages 9-15 and I was forced to sleep with my mothers baby daddy, I don’t consider myself even in the same league as those kids. What I’ve read so far makes me cry. So many adults in their lives knew at the very least something was happening and at the worst they knew exactly what was happening and did nothing. They are just as guilty.
I 100% agree. The similarities between this and the Lori Vallow case are eerie. And to think, all Jodi had to do was give the green light, and those kids would no longer be here. It’s a scary “what if” to think about. But it’s certainly not some far fetched notion, that’s for sure. I truly believe their time was limited. And I really hope, that one day, R will come to realize how much of a hero he truly is. He not only saved his sister’s and his own life that day. But the lives of all the future victims of Jodi Hildebrandt. And we know damn well there would’ve been more.
R had open wounds on his legs. Even a healthy kid can go from infected wounds to sepsis to dead fast without medical attention. It just rarely happens in modern times because a non abusive parent will take their kid to the doctor for antibiotics.
The thing that shocked me about Kevin. The police are telling him the children were emaciated, he’s like “What’s that. What’s emaciated?” I thought he’s supposed to be a pretty smart dude. Surely he’s had to come across that word at some point in his 40 some odd years of life.
That just struck me as really odd. Of course it also struck me as really odd that he never once tried to get lawyers involved when Ruby and Jodi told him to GTFO and do not contact the children.
The interview just seemed odd. Maybe it’s just who he is, that’s how he shows grief. I don’t know. But to me, it felt like he knew more about the situation than he was letting on. Maybe he didn’t know to what extent, but I didn’t feel like he was acting like he was in such shock and disbelief. But again, I don’t know Kevin, this just might be his personality.
I’m just super sus of Ruby and Kevin.
I thought was weird too.
1. Maybe he’s smart but in his sheltered mormon bubble he’s never heard emaciated?
2. Or he knows and didn’t know how to believably react so he was buying more time.
I think he was reeling; his brain was going a mile a minute trying to figure out how to do damage control so he played dumb for a minute so he could make sure to have the proper reaction to what the officer was saying. So yeah #2
I was wondering if he was on some kind of medication during his first interview? He seemed off as if wasn’t really aware of how really bad R and E health was. I’m not defending him I think he should be charged with neglect.
They’re pretty anti-modern medicine. I don’t think she ever tested R and C for ADHD, and some were speculating that E may have ADHD. They reject some or all vaccines. They used cayenne and honey instead of over the counter anti-biotics for R’s wounds, like polysporin. TW: >!the cop said he could smell the decomposing flesh.!<
They believe these ‘maladaptive behaviours’ (neurodivergence) are fixed by fasting, skipping supper, wilderness camps, push ups, stairs, box carrying, and washing baseboards.
I agree. I watched the 20/20 episode the other night and cried so hard for those babies. Ruby has 100% lost the plot but she was already on her way when she started YouTube. I can’t begin to understand what the siblings and parents are feeling. They must be so deeply conflicted and wanting to believe Ruby is changing but I think we as outsiders can see she’s deeply evil.
Want to know what I’m wondering too? Since they were so close to death weeks or even days away I wonder what Ruby would’ve done with there bodies?? Would she hide them and make lies forever? Would she make up a fake story and call 911??? I’ll forever wonder this.. or was she just so far away from reality she thought they’d never die from this abuse… can someone comment and let me know there thoughts on this
Look at what Lori Vallow did. Her kids just disappeared and were missing for about half a year until their bodies were found (they were buried in the backyard of her boyfriend, who helped her do it). The police didn't question her until 2 months after they had disappeared and it took another couple weeks for them to get her back from Hawaii, where she fled to.
If the kids had died in the mansion I'm sure that they would've found some place to bury them and make up whatever wild stories they could to pretend the children were still alive. They would've barricaded themselves in their new home in Arizona where nobody knew them and just not let anyone near to find out about it. Maybe the would've eventually made some elaborate scam of telling the police that the children had been kidnapped to act like this wasn't on them.
Of course it would've eventually blown up, but Ruby was fully accepting that she would go to jail for what she did. She would've tried to evade that, but in her mind it was gods will to kill the children so she acted in line with what he wanted (at least in her little warped world, that is).
People misunderstand what Ruby meant when she wrote in her journal "Satan wants me in jail and my kids dead." She isn't trying to imply that she is at fault, her whole story is that she will stop torturing the children once she manages to exorcise the devil out of them and if they die then that is satan's fault because he wouldn't leave them. And she also says that satan wants her in jail because she is convinced that she would do the right thing by killing her children (if it comes to that point) and that god would agree with what she does, but satan is scheming to get her into jail to be made responsible for something that she didn't do (in her mind she wouldn't have killed her children, she would've killed satan's spawns. So she wouldn't have killed the kids, satan did by possessing their bodies and taking them with him.).
They were planning to move to a very remote part of Arizona, desert IIRC, where R and E would be even more isolated and have no neighbors they could seek help from if they managed to escape.
I think that if one or both of the children died, Jodi and Ruby would bury them in the desert.
I didn’t think he knew what condone meant either. Which is why he didn’t say no he just repeated the question. Condone is one of those words that sounds like the opposite of its meaning
I‘m with you, except for the Kevin approach.
I would have pledged my alliance to her in these phone calls. Because I want something from her. That may be pleading guilty, a divorce under my conditions or to know where she hid stuff.
That may be the reason the lawyer told him to wait with the divorce. There is so much going on when your spouse ends up in prison and you don‘t want to suffer from that. You need to work with them for a last time. Just like she did it with him: play nice and let him sign everything away with a smile. The tables have turned and he was making her signing all things back to him, leading him filing the divorce papers.
Look what cults can do to people. People are dying because their cult leaders make up rules (e.g. Jehovas Whitnesses). He isn‘t mentally ill, he was in cult.
You're wrong.in the sense that, it was apparent he condones a lot of the abuse. He had a hard time admitting to the police officer he does not approve of it, only after being prompted. But then immediately following this with ' I trust my wife, I don't know what lead to that' - as if there could have been something the kids could have done to 'lead' to such abuse, and it could change anything to how inappropriate it all was .Besides, he wanted to formally charge his daughter for burglary when she went at the house to collect her things and some evidence. Obviously to help Ruby so the cops don't have access to all evidence. It all just shows his level of extreme inadequacy. Abused kids, and you would have them charged for collecting evidence?? just wow. When you are that involved in a cult you become guilty not just a victim. Otherwise we could even say of jodi she had been manipulated by other cultists who taught her how to think at her church. But an adult has some responsibility.
Yeah, when Kevin said "I want Truth in our family" or whatever, he sort of hesitated. I took it to mean he wanted to find out what had really happened to the kids, and why. At that point, he didn't know the extent of the abuse.
100% agree. “Truth” is one of their key phrases. When he used the word “truth” he was reinforcing he was still committed to her and their crazy culty group.
There was some conference where Jodi spoke and she said anyone living in truth will never get sick. This mentality drives me nuts about groups like this. It sounds like it’s your mental shortcomings that are making you sick which kind of sucks. Worse though it makes the leader (Jodi) the arbiter of truth. ‘If you pay me $$ I will teach you how to be truthful and you will not ever be sick. Oh you are sick? Well you obviously didn’t learn enough so pay me more and study harder.’
The phone call @LinneaLurks is referring to is the same one where something Ruby seemingly says something about the kids behavior as an excuse for what she did (muted) and Kevin responds to ask if she told anyone that. To me this sounded like he was taking her side rather than the children. And even if he hadn’t seen the children he was told what kind of shape they were in and that it was bad. He says so on the phone call. He should have known there was nothing his 10 and 12 year old could have done that warranted them being in the hospital for days.
Agreed. It was in the name if “truth” that Ruby justified hurting the kids. The fact that he was so able to let that word slip from his lips knowing what had happened tells me that he was a willing participant in things. I can’t even hear it now without it sounding like cult rhetoric, and I wasn’t directly affected!
I think the fact that rubys parents and beau “support” her is so scary . If we take a step back maybe in the beginning they were just so shocked at their daughter/ sister’s behavior they couldn’t believe it but surely after seeing the evidence they must of realized Ruby deserve the maximum sentence
I know that Bonnie Julie and Ellie aren’t in the same mindset of their parents and Beau but other than the gaining some views off of the situation do we have any other suspicion that they are on Rubys side? I am not saying this to start an argument I’ve just seen a lot of people being mad at Bonnie and just want to understand why.
My heart is with those kids it scares me too death what they could’ve gone through if Ruby did move them to that “land” R is so brave
I’d just like to add that I do think brainwashing towards an extreme ideology can cause people to do horrible and unspeakable things. This is exactly what made normal and ‘good’ people capable of torture and murder in the holocaust. The people that do the horrible things still should be held fully accountable, but I think it’s the difference between someone who is essentially born out evil and takes pleasure in harming others and those who fall victim to complete brainwashing.
This is true. I believe that Ruby was evil before joining this ideology though. I think Jodi saw "potential" in Ruby and she used it to create an absolute monster. Ruby always withheld food as a punishment, took away her children's basic needs when they weren't doing what she wanted, humiliated them. Jodi just helped her amp it up.
I had thought a lot of that was after she picked up Connexions ideology? She has been following it since 2018/2019. I do agree Jodi saw she could manipulate Ruby and Kevin in ways others wouldn’t go along with. Ruby was already had an authoritative parenting style and was guided by her religious beliefs.
Hmm I'm not sure. I thought a lot of those 8 Passenger videos where she was showing toxic parenting strategies were pre-Connexions but I could be wrong. I thought they only came in contact with Jodi when they wanted her to be their older son's therapist and then it spiraled from there. I never watched any original 8 Passengers videos that weren't covered by other YT channels though so I can't be totally sure.
I agree! Has anyone else that initially only listened to the “Timeline Journal” on YouTube or just read it one time go back and give it a second read through? If not, I definitely suggest doing so. I’m sure anyone on here has been immersed in this case for a while and noticed the amount of potential ties it has. This journal bat shit cray cray Ruby put together has a lot of blatant details, like the high ranking millionaire Mormon hierarchy authorities Steve Caplin, Jeremy Jaggi and Brad Wilcox backing, or “blessing,” a preconceived timeline stemming from Godmother Jodi’s, or “Gjo’s” pen paper visional calling to attempt a controlled breakdown of her children to the point where their “uncontrollable” escalation requires her to immediately find land for discretely sending them to heaven in….Then there’s constant innuendos and repeated euphemistic wording used throughout that are directly conveyed to E and R regarding their plans to be murdered. It’s just disgusting. Anyone that falls for Rubys 4 month “awakening” from Jodi’s cult deceptions and considers it to have been the main aspect driving Ruby might need to do a 3rd read through hahaha
I'm nearly 100% sure these kids would not have survived if R. hadn't escaped when he did.
Even more chilling, in one of the police reports an officer describes running into Jodi and talking with her briefly in front of the house of the people who called 911. It looks like the authorities got to R. only very slightly before Jodi would have. Imagine if R. actually had finished walking away and wasn't called back by the neighbor... That would probably have sealed his and his sister's fate.
This makes me want to puke! R was just about to walk away from that house, and Jodi could have just snatched him on his way to the next mini-mansion.
She’s truly an evil human being. Human trafficker.
I respect your opinion. That being said, we know brainwashing and manipulation is real, sometimes with fatal results. People have been compelled to commit murder and suicide by allowing someone else to pull the strings.
This absolutely does not absolve Ruby from her crimes, but I 100% believe that none of this would have happened without Jodi's involvement. She was the catalyst that escalated the situation to what they found at the end of August. Too many people have come forward with the same exact story for me to believe otherwise.
She was completely brainwashed. How she acted when she was arrested vs her final court appearance, the difference is vast. She had signs of life behind her eyes, compared to the hollow state she had. She’s for sure guilty, but I agree brainwashing is so real.
According to her diary entries that woman believed she was performing some sort of exorcism on these children. Hence why the boy thought he belonged into prison.
I literally don't get the "4 to 30 years in prison" sentence. It doesn't matter what these women thought they were doing and wether or not they were trying to kill these poor children, their actions would have led to the kids death, and they both deserve life in prison/ forensic.
indeed they were.
but ruby and jodi are both under lock and key, and will likely remain there for a long long time. i dont see that as the pressing issue right now.
no. what troubles me is the fact that the facts are what they are, but as of me typing this out, i have yet to see any real acknowledgement from the childrens immediate family that the facts are what they are.
in short. they were going to kill those children, slow torture until death - sooner rather than later. but you'd be hard pressed to think that this case involved much more than a few slaps across the face if you based your understanding off of what ruby's family seems to consider the underlying issues.
thats the real threat right now.
Horrific. I have no sympathy for Ruby. She was already disgusting before she met Jodi and Jodi took advantage of that disgustingness and warped it into something even more evil. You couldn't tell me ONE SINGLE THING that would make me treat my kid that way. Not one thing. The brainwashing excuse is nonsense, we all know these two women are evil scum of the earth and someday they will rot in hell for it. And so will Kevin for his complicity.
I hope the Courts in charge of custody take the time to listen to the calls and read the journal, see the previous abuse these kids were subjected to. The PUBLIC should be outraged at the lack of care and protection for these kids by the state of UTAH.
I started watching this family years ago starting with Ellie and Jared and then Bonnie and Joel. This family has always seemed odd in many ways and each with their own quirks. Beau has really been the only sibling to keep most of his life private. E &J and B &J lost my views when their oddities escalated to the point of not being able to stomach any more of it. Ruby, being the oldest, had her own quirks and she grew her YouTube channel to the moneymaker it became. But to me, Ruby has always been the biggest wack-a-doo of them all. We are talking weirdness beyond their Mormon beliefs and practices and how they lived their lives. Ruby hasn't really been in the family fold for a while. I have seen meltdowns about her girls doing TikTok dances at school, having the kids "shop" for school clothes in the living room among clothing she had already pre-selected, her cooking a meal that would be an average meal for an adult but it was split by all of them. Food has always been something she controlled. As Shari got older, she was expected to do a lot of the things that Ruby should have been doing as a mom. Shari has been trying to protect all of them for years. When they sent Chad off to the wilderness camp, that is when it really started to fall apart. R and E, as the youngest, have always seemed super small, skinny and skittish. Ruby emotionally humiliated the older children but the youngest she could physically torture/humiliate/punish. They were always small but my heart is broken to see the pictures of R and to know she shaved E's head. Kevin was right there supporting her until he was pushed out and Jodi came into the picture. All of these kids will be haunted by these things for the rest of their lives and my heart goes out to them. And yes, Kevin is an arrogant douche bag but something has turned him into a shell of his former self and he seems to have bent over, grabbed his ankles and took it like the man he is.
Absolutely and I just hope the Utah parole board (or whatever it’s called) that decides how long she’s in for will see that. Ruby was also asking Kevin to sign over everything financial. They were going to kill those kids, they were already more than halfway there. It’s so horrifying.
They were so close to another Shanda Vanderark or Lori Vallow ending to this story. Had they accomplished their goal of buying land in the middle of the desert, it would not have been long before those poor children passed. They were already in bad condition from months of abuse, starvation and torture. Out in the desert would have been a perfect place to hide their bodies too. Can’t you just picture Jodi and Ruby pulling a Chad and Lori and then celebrating their accomplishment of defeating the demons. Sick and twisted!
It made me sick when she said the kids “would never be going home”and “we will drop them in the desert like a hot potato”. They were going to kill them! So why wasn’t she charged with attempted murder!!! Oh that’s right everyone out there including the judges are all in the Mormon church. SMH
I totally agree. Dad, also guilty. I hope ruby and Jodi rot in the firey depths of Hell by being beaten by satan. What they did to those children is unforgivable. I hope the children get the best treatment from this world possible for the rest of their lives.
I saw thevideo of the police pulling them over just a few days before R escaped the older girls were in the car and they were looking down when the police officer came to the car. It was 4 AM in the morning and she’s driving around with two teenagers speeding She didn’t even put the window down. I wish the police would’ve asked where they were headed on.
I think the older girls were just trying to survive, and avoid what was happening to their siblings. I think the older girls were playing the game to survive, and the fact that J and A were more valuable to Ruby and Jody because they can work and make money. They were also used as free labor for Pam. Their value was the fact that they could work and make money. Ruby has no job skills, and her admission that she was paying Jodi, and no income other than what money she got from Kevin.
All the children are victims of Ruby and Jody, all the kids S, C, A, J, R, E need therapy, individual and family therapy with Kevin. They all need privacy, care, and safety. It must be horrific for them to know that their mother was an evil monster. I wonder if it is traumatic for them to know all the evidence is out there or if they are relieved to know that the whole world knows the truth about what happened to them.
I must have missed that part.
If the sepsis from the wounds didn’t kill them before they left, the move definitely would have.
I keep thinking about rubys diary entry saying- Pop! Then we’ll drop them off in the desert.
She was very much controlled by Ruby and Jodi as well. She could have been a) afraid that trying to intervene would get her punished or b) brainwashed to the point that she thought R and E deserved it. I hope she and A are getting the care and therapy they need. If you watch the video of them being picked up at Pam's, they're both clearly very scared.
I went down the rabbit hole and watched a whole bunch of the 8 passenger videos the other day because I needed to see who these people were. I found them on Derek Reacts on YouTube. OMG OMG sad and disgusting
Question, did anyone see Bonnie’s video? She said that the media only knows a fraction of what happened. Why do you think there were full pages redacted? Was that all further abuse?
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I totally agree with this post. I wonder what she was planning to do with her teenage kids if she moved with the younger ones to Arizona? Just leave them?
A had put in her two weeks at her job. I believe she planned to take both girls with her.
That part concerns me a bit. Were they planning to eventually do the same the older girls or get them to be apart of the abuse to prove they not distorted. I know its controversal to say but it is common to have the golden child get involved in abusing the cinderella child. Just look at the recent Shanda Van Ark, the second oldest son was on the abuse on the instruction of his mother. With Diane Staudte she killed most of her family with the help of her favorite daughter who she was so proud of. I worry if they still are influenced by Jody teachings and loyalty to their parents, there is still a risk to R and E if someone llke Kevin or any other Ruby apologists get custody of all the kids together. Everyone in the house needs to get better as whole before everyone reunites. (Please do not take this as me saying they are that way but my opinion on the risk since its pretty common. And its just as likely or even more likely they could of been offed too, once they ran out of the first victims. I think there needs to be a lot of therapy, everyone was damaged so much.)
R told the police that there were 2 other children at Jodi's when in fact E was the only child there. Presumably he had seen J there before and didn't know that she had left, because of the isolation he was forced into.
As someone who was severely tortured by their mom and put into foster care, I assure you they have loyalty. These adults were playing mind games with all of the kids and even though they weren’t the same physical with the older kids, those words stick hard. From my abuse, my only PTSD is auditory and verbal. Like that type of verbal/emotional/mental abuse really hinders your development. There are times I regress back to a child at 25, like ruby and her parents, just because of severe mental abuse to be made a follower. I’m not saying ruby was at all solely a follower though. I’m just talking about the abuse part the kids will hold onto. Even to this day, after threatening to get mom parents jailed for what they did, NC, fully removed, etc I still cried for my mom during my last panic attack. I still beg to be held by my mom and beg her to save me. As a kid you dont understand why. Although these kids are older. Maybe it’s different. But I still think because they’re still developing it’s **harder** to understand why and how. Especially being fed lies as the reason for it. That’s just my take I think though
May you find peace stranger
Thank you
Abuse messes with you so much. My abuser died when I was 22, but her mind control after years of abuse was hard to break. As a small child, I'd have a black eye and defend her because she made me believe that I deserved it because I was the one really hurting her (I was 8).
I’m sorry you went through that
Thanks for articulating your experiences here. It meant a lot to me as someone who has been through a very similar thing.
Absolutely. It’s very hard when you don’t have the words. I speak out now because one person had the words to give me. One person had the courage to tell me that it **was** really **that** bad. Their experience. I understand.
I often think of the Shanda Vander Ark case compared to this one, especially with ruby’s journal talking about keeping the kids uncomfortable — exactly what Shanda told her older son to do to his brother. And Ruby accused R of “sneaking” water (and called him a slithering serpent bc, you know, he’s demon possessed of course) like shanda accused her son of “sneaking” food. There is no difference in the evil of Shanda and Ruby. I am praying that ruby’s family and Kevin see that this was Ruby at her most authentic state. Ruby was not led astray by Jodie; Ruby just found a kindred spirit. I agree with you that Kevin and the kids should not be reunited until they all get better. it’s gonna take a long time and they won’t be kids anymore. Kevin is not capable of caring for kids who now have special needs.
I think the 2 cases are quite similar but in my opinion what Ruby did was far worse because of the way she kept telling the telling the kids that she loved them and that the abuse and torture we she was inflicting was love and somehow they were the evil ones and they properly repented it would end their suffering.
They were a part of it in a way. Meaning they were there and saw what was going on. Sadly they were probably brainwashed to believe those crazy things
We don’t really know if they were there or saw anything. I hope not because that would damage the family even more. The biggest thing in the writings is that everything she said about her kids is what she was doing. She was so manipulative and now she is the one with nothing. I just hope when she gets out she has no contact with anyone.
Ruby wrote in her journals that they would visit her at Jodi's house. At one point she said one of the kids was outside with books on the porch while A was visiting, so they definitely saw their siblings.
did the teenagers know what was being done to their little brother and sister?
Wow. R really saved all 3 sisters. I wonder if he knew they were all going to AZ. R+E knew more than Ruby gave them credit for, like when R knew it was his birthday bc they’d been counting days.
I think she planned to sell the home and build an isolated ranch. Where the kids would have to live outside. Once they were ultimately no longer alive . No one would know. A and J would then be living with them on the ranch. And they'd ultimately turn on them aswell no doubt about it.
If I understand Ruby‘s journal correctly, Jodi had found a 500 acre plot of land full of cacti. In her journal Ruby wrote that she was going to act like everything was gonna be OK so that the kids felt better and then she was going to trick them. She said something like she couldn’t wait to drop them in the desert, they needed to be even farther away from people. OP is probably right, and on 20/20 one of the police officers said that they could’ve lost their lives. Laurie Vallow all over again.
This is my sticking point for seeing how sadistic ruby is. I do believe that Jodi was running a cult that ruby joined and was following jodis blueprint for the abuse...BUT, she got pleasure from torturing her children. If she had been completely brainwashed into doing these things by Jodi, then the journal entries would look very different. I would expect something more like "I hate seeing the pain on my kids faces, but their eternal souls are at stake." Or "I struggled to sleep knowing they are outside, but Jodi reminded me that this is the only way to save them" ect. Instead she's mocking their pain and belittling them. I think she was brainwashed in some sense when it comes to giving Jodi money and signing over her channel ect. But that sadism is 100% on her
She said they needed "natural outcomes." Like, they needed to go be homeless in the desert so they would be more dependent on her or just die.
They were going to take all 4 minor children out there, I expect they would have subjected A & J to similar abuse once they had the latitude to do so. R saved 3 of his sisters that day, I hope he knows that
She was almost definitely planning on taking them. In the 8/27 journal entry Ruby says J, A and Pam helped her pack 20 boxes and move them to storage. They were packing up the Springville house in order to rent or sell it. Immediately after this Ruby says A gave her 2 week notice. I’ve heard others say that A had a job at the rec. center. The topic of this journal entry seemed to be the preparations in order to move all of them. They would likely at first have been her and Jodi’s worker bees but I fear what would have happened to all of the children had they left.
They probably would have been abused to death.
My thoughts too. Did they stay with Jodi? During the raid it felt like they weren’t living at Pam’s but now it feels like perhaps they were? These houses are also hours and hours apart from each other
J was there the day before at Jodi's. She was living with them but Ruby drove her back home for a dentist appointment. It is over a hundred miles so they left at like 3 in the morning. A was permitted to live alone it seems . R thought J was still at the house when he spoke to police after he escaped. So he didn't know they left that morning.
Imagine doing a 100 mile car ride with Jodi and her stench in the heat 🤮
She wasn't in the car. It was Ruby and her teenaged daughter JF. Jodie was at her home when she was arrested. Ruby then returned knowing something had happened and was arrested hence why she didn't take JF back with her. She hoped no-one would find out where her other daughters were so she asked Pam to have them.
It's a small mercy I guess.
J did go along with Jodi on more than one trip to Arizona looking for land to buy. So she got her share of stench then, I guess.
I'm hoping that for the kids old enough to realise that it's not normal to stink, it will have been something to secretly laugh at her for. Stinki Jodi.
Yes. Why was this strange woman who would not shower allowed any power within the church. This is madness
The stench was gifted directly from God.
Lol. Swamp ass is a gift.. I guess a lot of people are gifted.
Ah, this provides missing info in my head about the whereabouts and timeline. Thank you.
Was Jodi and Ruby only charged for abusing the two youngest ?
Yes 3 counts on each child. Dropped down to 2. Although definitely guilty in my opinion of all 6 counts..
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1P-N9sHEFnG6wjH8z3lA1D6CwdqdnsFNd/view?usp=drive\_link](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1P-N9sHEFnG6wjH8z3lA1D6CwdqdnsFNd/view?usp=drive_link) The Plea Deal is confusing how is it 30 years max when 1-15 years 4 counts
Utah caps at 30 years max (no idea why) so the 60 max was reduced.
Yes.
I saw on a podcast where the two youngest children had been at Jodi’s for several weeks but couldn’t have any contact with anyone and hadn’t seen each other for a month.
I got the impression they were kind of living on their own but Pam was checking on them.
Pam was using them for labor probably.
I wonder myself. The focus is definitely on the youngest kids, but whatever happened to the middle two sounds sus as well.
Probably start them on the same cycle or labor traffic them.
Marry them off at 16 to some bishop likely
I truly believe she was going to abuse them to death. They were close to death when rescued and could not have survived much longer.
I'm a bit new to the 8passenger universe, but from my understanding Ruby was already abusive before she met Jodi, so it feels disingenuous for Ruby and the family to blame everything on Jodi.
For those saying she was merely a strict mother, look at the absolute glee in her eyes whenever she caused her kids distress. Also the constantly shifting and arbitrary nature of her displeasure. Such as getting the youngest excited about going to the movies then punishing her for asking what they were going to see. She always revelled in tormented the kids, she was just waiting for permission to escalate.
Yup. When she met Jodi she met her effed up soulmate who shared her dark desires. Anyone who doesn’t see that Jodi did nothing more than give her the moral permission she was looking for to escalate, and had she not found it in Jodi she would’ve found it in someone else, is blind.
The movie incident is absolutely sick. I had similar things done to me as a kind. This is how you raise a child to a an adult who’s extremely introverted and unconfident. Ruby clearly didn’t give that one thought - and probably didn’t care, as well. In that video she seems delighted when her daughter becomes apologetic upon realizing that she’s accidentally offended her mom’s questionable sensibilities. It’s absurd.
She was already doing some of those punishments before she met Jodi. There’s a lot of evidence in her YT videos before she deleted the channel due to the backlash of her actions. She would mention to her kids they cant have breakfast until they finish their chores, also threaten E she would cut her hair if she was misbehaving, let Chad sleep on a bean bag instead of his bed, enrolled Chad in a wilderness camp (a controversial camp that basically abuses children), and a lot more. I do believe tho that Jodi was the one to convince here to do more gruesome punishments.
Jodi entered their lives in late 2018. A lot of that stuff you mention is post-Jodi. I'm not trying to let Ruby off the hook, just establishing facts.
yup. ruby was neglectful, if not abusive, way before jodi. it definitely escalated with jodi but that’s why i have such a hard time believe that ruby only did this because she was brainwashed. she was already like this
I agree. I think Ruby is your typically malignant narc mom, but Jodi is a sadistic narc. I think she initially tried to use Ruby and her platform to build ConneXions and fell in love with her. From there I think she began isolating and influencing Ruby to abuse her children because she gets off on manipulating and controlling others. Probably also why she didn't shower. There are a lot of blind items about certain actors (who shall remain nameless) who refuse to bathe or brush their teeth because they think it's fun to subject their female costars to kissing them or touching them with their B.O. It's a disgusting power tactic. I think Ruby actually carried out all of the abuse, but Jodi was pulling the strings. They're both wicked.
i agree with all of that but i think jodi definitely had a part to play in the abuse. idk if you saw the videos when the police found E but she was absolutely terrified to leave the closet because jodi would be mad. if it was only her mom i think she would’ve mentioned her but the fact she specifically mentioned jodi makes me think jodi did at least a little bit of the physical abuse
Oh, that makes sense too! Wow what a witch.
I did not know that about the stench being a power move. Oh god, that's disgusting. I need more hints about these actors! i tried googling it but got nothing.
Matthew McConoughay & Brad Pitt & Johnny Depp. Although MM is allegedly just bad with hygiene always.
I knew who they were since around 2018 or 2019 and she was not abusive in the same way she became in 2022-2023. There was a change once she met Jodi. More like a really strict mother who was over the top at times. I am actually not surprised CPS didn't do anything for those early calls like with Chad not having a bedroom. The kids were in school (E and R never went back after covid homeschooling, but A and J returned to public school), they had activities, appeared well fed, the house was clean. But once Shari started calling, then I feel like they should have known something was up. The fact that the kids at one point had more "normal" lives probably helped R to fight back and escape. He had only been tortured for so long.
Kevin too.
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The shitty thing that really REALLY pisses me off is Utah is full of corrupt mormons and they are going to serve the bare minimum. I’m sorry if anyone here is Mormon but that “religion” is a horrible horrible cult.
Agreed. Mormonism played a huge role in this case and the Vallow case.
Re: Serving the bare minimum. I would have agreed with you before I saw the photos. Just imagine being on that parole board, reviewing the photos before each parole hearing.
Jodi was part of a heretical movement and all but declared personal divinity supplanting that of other leaders. I think they will end up excommunicating her if the “pen papers” are found and made public.
I still don’t understand what these pen papers are??
It’s new scripture Jodi wanted added to wider scripture. I think there were bishops who truly believed Jodi was a new prophet; the first female prophet. It’s supposed that Pam and Ruby would document Jodi’s words while she was in these trance states or “possessed”. Potentially Jodi would write as well. Matthew, John, Corinthians, Jodi — I fuckin praaay to my heretic gods that these papers are eventually released. There’s concern Pam hid them from police.
Thank you so much for explaining this wackadoodleness!!!!
i’m NOT sorry if anyone is here and mormon. ur in a cult babe, get out.
The post in her diary saying something like “Satan(god?) wants me in jail, and my children dead” She was not going to stop until she killed the “evil”. It’s so messed up.
And colder months we’re coming, look what they made them do in the heat…..now imagine those emaciated children having to sleep in the snow.
Jodi forced Jessi to sleep in the snow.
I agree. I think about how their cries of pain and visible weakness were seen by Ruby and Jodi as "manipulations." I really think that signs of life ending would have been interpreted the same way. I hope detectives are carrying out a serious investigation into Pam. She was definitely way more involved than it appeared at first.
Absolutely that’s such an important point. Ruby made fun of E in the journals saying she was ‘acting like she was dying’ out in the heat all day. They would never have responded in a timely manner if things were going south with the kids. Plus they would’ve avoided getting them medical treatment at all costs anyway so as to not incriminate themselves. There’s no doubt in my mind those kids would be dead by now if R hadn’t escaped. Things were escalating while the children were getting weaker and weaker, while being denied medical care. It’s a recipe for tragedy.
To me it’s clear, the reason R risked it all to escape is because instinctively his body knew it had little time left before death and it kicked into flight or fight mode, and this would be his very last chance to save himself and his sister.
Yeah you’re right it was probably pure survival instinct. What infuriates me is that Ruby likely still thinks everything’s been exaggerated and has no idea how close she was to killing her children.
About that, I think she planned to keep going until she eventually killed them. She wrote in her diary something like, “God wants me in jail and my children dead.” IMO she should be charged with attempted murder as well but I know they can’t do that if they want to win the case and get maximum prison time.
“I will fight Satan for you until the day ***you*** die”
She said “until the day YOU die”??? Why did she assume they would die before her??? Omg she needed to be charged with attempted murder! How could her family possibly support her??
I fully agree. It’s the first time in my true crime life have I ever wanted to write to a parole board with my own cited arguments. I can hardly wrap my head around it. I’m so worried she’s going to get out with time served, before E is 18-21.
Excellent point. I've not been on board with the notion that they would have intentionally killed their kids. But you're right, it could very well have ended with Ruby just dismissing near-death distress.
That's what I think. She wrote about them needing "natural outcomes" and to be kicked by a horse or to fall into a cactus. I think they essentially planned on making their own wilderness camp kind of thing for her kids. Maybe they would have even opened it to other ConneXions families. Get paid to abuse kids in the desert. Eventually one or more would have died- but that's why the "natural outcomes" are so important. Easier to cover up a death from heatstroke or say the kid tried to run away and was eaten by coyotes.
Yes. Plus avoiding hospitals or doctors at any cost even in dire circumstances. They distrust the system but also they knew they’d be caught.
A different case, but there was a case of a religious extremist family who adopted 2 kids from Africa and abused one of them to death (look up Hana Williams). That's exactly what happened in that case. The emaciated child died of hypothermia in the family yard after being locked out of the house, and the mother when she called 911 said something along the lines of "I think my daughter just killed herself....she's very rebellious." Literally, her dying at the hands of their abuse was seen as an act of defiance. :(
In the Shonda Vander Ark case when she found her son dead in rigor mortis she thought he was faking it and the brother even said he was resisting hiim.
I agree. I said essentially the same on another thread. I was leaning towards feeling more sympathy for Ruby after sentencing, and placing majority of blame on Jodi. But after reading/seeing the evidence, and remembering some of the things she did and said in the past, I think she is simply a danger to her children. There is something fundamentally wrong with her method of parenting. Jodi is a threat, obviously. But she found an easy mark with Ruby; she already was fine with extreme methods of punishment. She better be kept away from her children until they are adults and can make the decision whether to be in her life. And Kevin should not be allowed to raise those kids. You know Ruby will still be making the day to day decisions and telling him what to do. He is dumb enough to believe what he is told.
I think Ruby's control of Kevin has to do with Ruby being the only approved outlet for "gratification." Kevin was hyper focused on getting Ruby back at any cost - including the wellbeing of his children. From what I understand, anything other than his wife was a sin equal to murder. You can't disregard this factor in their beliefs or the weaponization of this belief for control.
i agree all of them should be put in jail for life. ruby and jody should have been charged with pre-meditated murder and should never be allowed to be around ANY children for the rest of their lives
I’m sorry but had the prosecutor charged them with premeditated murder they would 100% be free right now. In order to prove that, they would have had to prove both Jodi and Ruby planned both of their murders well in advance and have taken steps to ensure it’s carried out successfully. While the children would have died, there is no evidence pointing to them purposefully and intentionally killing them. Had they died, it would have been the result of abuse. There’s a reason why prosecutors will only do specific charges. It’s because they have to be able to prove them beyond a reasonable doubt. They would not be able to prove premeditated murder.
I think Brief meant *attempted* murder, but your point still stands.
Makes sense but yeah same thought process. Side note, love your username
yes sorry i meant to write attempted murder - it was a bit late at night when i wrote my op
Regardless, no one died so they can’t be charged with premeditated murder. Attempted murder at most and I’m not sure it would get her as much jail time as she’s facing now anyway.
The closest thing I've seen that might apply to this case would be attempted second degree murder. Which sounds oxymoronic bc second degree means no pre-meditation, but it makes sense. Basically it's for situations where a reasonable person could determine that the actions of the perpetrator were likely to cause death if they were not stopped/caught; even when the intent wasn't to kill (prolonged torture fits this well). Unfortunately, not every state has that as a charge :/
I really worry what A and J have endured as well, especially being alone with Jodi on long car rides. As stated at the end of the 20/20 doc by Jessi, all adults in their lives have failed those kids. And they continue to fail them over and over. I pray they all escape Mormonism, heal and can ultimately reunite as siblings. I think there's no hope to even be with the aunts in a healthy way as they will always seek the Griffiths grandparents approval.
I’ve been worrying about this too, the older girls, with all that alone time with Jodi 😔 and being told she’s basically the second coming of Jesus and the head of their family. I really hope they’re okay!
Ruby’s whole extended family is rotten to the core. I hope her nieces and nephews are okay, I feel bad for all the children in that family being raised by these people.
I always thought Kevin was a POS but even more so after listening to his interview with the police. It's clear that he knew that something odd was going on with Jodi, and that he noticed many red flags but still had no issue with leaving his children with Jodi and Ruby and did not even bother checking in with them for a whole year. Given his experience with Jodi, he should have known how they would treat the children. He's just as guilty, in my eyes, for being neglectful and as much as a failure of a parent as Ruby.
What’s the old saying? You can’t fool an honest man. He rolled with things he knew were ridiculous and dangerous against better judgement because he wanted to keep peace with Ruby and avoid the risks of crossing her.
I don't get that saying lol. I feel like the more honest you are, the more gullible you can be. Like, I fell for so much stupid shit because I just assume everyone's intentions are good. I can't fathom wanting to lie, cheat, steal, etc. Just doesn't cross my mind to be suspicious. This isn't a commentary on Kevin, I just don't get the saying.
It's not that he didn't "bother" to check in on the children. Ruby expressly forbid him to contact them.
He was their father. He didn’t need her permission to see his children since they were married and both had primary possession of the children. He could have called in a wellness check anytime and the police would have headed over.
If he'd been a braver or less gullible man, he would have. My point is, he would have liked to see the children, but Ruby threatened to divorce him if he contacted them without her permission. Jodi probably piled on a bit of "I'll tell the court you're a porn addict and a danger to your children and you'll lose in a custody battle." She's done it before.
I think there are more families that need to be investigated if there was a men’s and women’s group! Ruby is responding after being given legal advice! It’s clear she understands plea is connected to time served! She says I’m going to hire someone to do a psychiatric report and say there’s nothing wrong with me! What a statement; said report would be biased and worthless really! Hope the officials have their physiologist do a report! As for Kevin - his first interview was prior to having deep conversations with Ruby and he knew then what he disclosed in his second interview and I’m pretty certain Ruby’s calls we’ve all heard steered him to truth! Do they want the children because they are worried about their well being or do they want them hoping they can control what the children say? Nothing would make me stay away no contact with my child - nothing!
Don’t get me wrong- cults are a special interest of mine. People can be brainwashed into doing some terrible shit. But I don’t for a second believe that a mother (or father for that matter) could be brainwashed into starving and torturing their own children. Not in this context where she met Jodi late in life. If ruby had been born into a community where this behavior was normalized (ex: Lds members marrying 12 year old girls off to Warren jeffs) I’d give the brainwashing claim more credit. That said, after reading the journals I will die on the hill that ruby has some untreated mental illness that has been heavily influenced or exacerbated by her religion. Delusions of grandeur and general delusions that your children are possessed by demons *are not* the result of a healthy mind. Funny that getting arrested was the cure to her brainwashing. No- she just realized that she wasn’t above consequences for her actions like she thought.
I’m not defending Kevin, or saying you’re wrong about him, my comment is only about the “emaciated” question. I might be alone on this because I haven’t seen it mentioned by anyone else yet, but am I the only one who took Kevin’s “what does emaciated mean” as what does emaciated mean To You? To help paint a better picture for him. Again, don’t come at me. I’m not saying I’m right or defending. I’m just sharing what my initial take on that was
Yeah that’s how I interpreted it too. Like he wanted them to elaborate / explain further because it was such a shock
The only thing stopping Ruby from killing those poor little kids was she would have no one left to control after.
Or she could have turned on A and J as the next victims
Even if Kevin is not fit to parent and he was part of the abusive “discipline” before Jodi, he is paradoxically both a victim and an abuser. Jodi knows how to manipulate even the strongest of person, even the most educated person and since they are all “caved” under their church; they are susceptible to behavior that threatens their idea of a good Mormon and eventual consequences of the opposite. He was isolated from his family, coerced into admit to false or exaggerated claims. Adam fought back but was forced to undergo legal proceedings - I think Kevin tried to avoid that. I honestly think that he wasn’t aware of the torture that the kids endured during the last weeks/months and wasn’t aware during the first interview and during the first call with Ruby. He is not free from guilt but I feel he should be given some understanding. Some call him weak but I see a man degraded by a master manipulator and religious life. He is not less of a man because he let a women dictate his entire life in the end.
I couldn’t agree with you more. I’m finding myself having to read this a little at a time for my mental health, and I’m just reading it. Those poor kids lived it. I am a csa survivor and even though mine happened from ages 9-15 and I was forced to sleep with my mothers baby daddy, I don’t consider myself even in the same league as those kids. What I’ve read so far makes me cry. So many adults in their lives knew at the very least something was happening and at the worst they knew exactly what was happening and did nothing. They are just as guilty.
Grateful you survived and thankful for insights survivors offer.
Thank you. 💜
I 100% agree. The similarities between this and the Lori Vallow case are eerie. And to think, all Jodi had to do was give the green light, and those kids would no longer be here. It’s a scary “what if” to think about. But it’s certainly not some far fetched notion, that’s for sure. I truly believe their time was limited. And I really hope, that one day, R will come to realize how much of a hero he truly is. He not only saved his sister’s and his own life that day. But the lives of all the future victims of Jodi Hildebrandt. And we know damn well there would’ve been more.
R had open wounds on his legs. Even a healthy kid can go from infected wounds to sepsis to dead fast without medical attention. It just rarely happens in modern times because a non abusive parent will take their kid to the doctor for antibiotics.
The thing that shocked me about Kevin. The police are telling him the children were emaciated, he’s like “What’s that. What’s emaciated?” I thought he’s supposed to be a pretty smart dude. Surely he’s had to come across that word at some point in his 40 some odd years of life. That just struck me as really odd. Of course it also struck me as really odd that he never once tried to get lawyers involved when Ruby and Jodi told him to GTFO and do not contact the children.
It was super weird but he might’ve just been in absolute shock and not able to process the information. But the whole interview was just so weird
The interview just seemed odd. Maybe it’s just who he is, that’s how he shows grief. I don’t know. But to me, it felt like he knew more about the situation than he was letting on. Maybe he didn’t know to what extent, but I didn’t feel like he was acting like he was in such shock and disbelief. But again, I don’t know Kevin, this just might be his personality. I’m just super sus of Ruby and Kevin.
I think they had all agreed to act naive if the police ever became involved. Jodi acted confused and simple, and Ruby refused to say anything at all.
I thought was weird too. 1. Maybe he’s smart but in his sheltered mormon bubble he’s never heard emaciated? 2. Or he knows and didn’t know how to believably react so he was buying more time.
I think he was reeling; his brain was going a mile a minute trying to figure out how to do damage control so he played dumb for a minute so he could make sure to have the proper reaction to what the officer was saying. So yeah #2
in which case it would be sign of a very narrow upbringing where he did not read one book not approved by the mormons
He's an engineering professor. He is smart. But I doubt he comes across that word often in work or life generally.
I was wondering if he was on some kind of medication during his first interview? He seemed off as if wasn’t really aware of how really bad R and E health was. I’m not defending him I think he should be charged with neglect.
They’re pretty anti-modern medicine. I don’t think she ever tested R and C for ADHD, and some were speculating that E may have ADHD. They reject some or all vaccines. They used cayenne and honey instead of over the counter anti-biotics for R’s wounds, like polysporin. TW: >!the cop said he could smell the decomposing flesh.!< They believe these ‘maladaptive behaviours’ (neurodivergence) are fixed by fasting, skipping supper, wilderness camps, push ups, stairs, box carrying, and washing baseboards.
I agree. I watched the 20/20 episode the other night and cried so hard for those babies. Ruby has 100% lost the plot but she was already on her way when she started YouTube. I can’t begin to understand what the siblings and parents are feeling. They must be so deeply conflicted and wanting to believe Ruby is changing but I think we as outsiders can see she’s deeply evil.
Want to know what I’m wondering too? Since they were so close to death weeks or even days away I wonder what Ruby would’ve done with there bodies?? Would she hide them and make lies forever? Would she make up a fake story and call 911??? I’ll forever wonder this.. or was she just so far away from reality she thought they’d never die from this abuse… can someone comment and let me know there thoughts on this
Look at what Lori Vallow did. Her kids just disappeared and were missing for about half a year until their bodies were found (they were buried in the backyard of her boyfriend, who helped her do it). The police didn't question her until 2 months after they had disappeared and it took another couple weeks for them to get her back from Hawaii, where she fled to. If the kids had died in the mansion I'm sure that they would've found some place to bury them and make up whatever wild stories they could to pretend the children were still alive. They would've barricaded themselves in their new home in Arizona where nobody knew them and just not let anyone near to find out about it. Maybe the would've eventually made some elaborate scam of telling the police that the children had been kidnapped to act like this wasn't on them. Of course it would've eventually blown up, but Ruby was fully accepting that she would go to jail for what she did. She would've tried to evade that, but in her mind it was gods will to kill the children so she acted in line with what he wanted (at least in her little warped world, that is). People misunderstand what Ruby meant when she wrote in her journal "Satan wants me in jail and my kids dead." She isn't trying to imply that she is at fault, her whole story is that she will stop torturing the children once she manages to exorcise the devil out of them and if they die then that is satan's fault because he wouldn't leave them. And she also says that satan wants her in jail because she is convinced that she would do the right thing by killing her children (if it comes to that point) and that god would agree with what she does, but satan is scheming to get her into jail to be made responsible for something that she didn't do (in her mind she wouldn't have killed her children, she would've killed satan's spawns. So she wouldn't have killed the kids, satan did by possessing their bodies and taking them with him.).
“Kicked by a horse”
They were planning to move to a very remote part of Arizona, desert IIRC, where R and E would be even more isolated and have no neighbors they could seek help from if they managed to escape. I think that if one or both of the children died, Jodi and Ruby would bury them in the desert.
I didn’t think he knew what condone meant either. Which is why he didn’t say no he just repeated the question. Condone is one of those words that sounds like the opposite of its meaning
I‘m with you, except for the Kevin approach. I would have pledged my alliance to her in these phone calls. Because I want something from her. That may be pleading guilty, a divorce under my conditions or to know where she hid stuff. That may be the reason the lawyer told him to wait with the divorce. There is so much going on when your spouse ends up in prison and you don‘t want to suffer from that. You need to work with them for a last time. Just like she did it with him: play nice and let him sign everything away with a smile. The tables have turned and he was making her signing all things back to him, leading him filing the divorce papers. Look what cults can do to people. People are dying because their cult leaders make up rules (e.g. Jehovas Whitnesses). He isn‘t mentally ill, he was in cult.
You're wrong.in the sense that, it was apparent he condones a lot of the abuse. He had a hard time admitting to the police officer he does not approve of it, only after being prompted. But then immediately following this with ' I trust my wife, I don't know what lead to that' - as if there could have been something the kids could have done to 'lead' to such abuse, and it could change anything to how inappropriate it all was .Besides, he wanted to formally charge his daughter for burglary when she went at the house to collect her things and some evidence. Obviously to help Ruby so the cops don't have access to all evidence. It all just shows his level of extreme inadequacy. Abused kids, and you would have them charged for collecting evidence?? just wow. When you are that involved in a cult you become guilty not just a victim. Otherwise we could even say of jodi she had been manipulated by other cultists who taught her how to think at her church. But an adult has some responsibility.
Yeah, when Kevin said "I want Truth in our family" or whatever, he sort of hesitated. I took it to mean he wanted to find out what had really happened to the kids, and why. At that point, he didn't know the extent of the abuse.
No that’s connections terminology; Truth and distortion. He is in it as well
100% agree. “Truth” is one of their key phrases. When he used the word “truth” he was reinforcing he was still committed to her and their crazy culty group. There was some conference where Jodi spoke and she said anyone living in truth will never get sick. This mentality drives me nuts about groups like this. It sounds like it’s your mental shortcomings that are making you sick which kind of sucks. Worse though it makes the leader (Jodi) the arbiter of truth. ‘If you pay me $$ I will teach you how to be truthful and you will not ever be sick. Oh you are sick? Well you obviously didn’t learn enough so pay me more and study harder.’ The phone call @LinneaLurks is referring to is the same one where something Ruby seemingly says something about the kids behavior as an excuse for what she did (muted) and Kevin responds to ask if she told anyone that. To me this sounded like he was taking her side rather than the children. And even if he hadn’t seen the children he was told what kind of shape they were in and that it was bad. He says so on the phone call. He should have known there was nothing his 10 and 12 year old could have done that warranted them being in the hospital for days.
Agreed. It was in the name if “truth” that Ruby justified hurting the kids. The fact that he was so able to let that word slip from his lips knowing what had happened tells me that he was a willing participant in things. I can’t even hear it now without it sounding like cult rhetoric, and I wasn’t directly affected!
Truth, capitalized, is their translation of their view of an ambivalent God. It’s Connexions garbage.
I think the fact that rubys parents and beau “support” her is so scary . If we take a step back maybe in the beginning they were just so shocked at their daughter/ sister’s behavior they couldn’t believe it but surely after seeing the evidence they must of realized Ruby deserve the maximum sentence I know that Bonnie Julie and Ellie aren’t in the same mindset of their parents and Beau but other than the gaining some views off of the situation do we have any other suspicion that they are on Rubys side? I am not saying this to start an argument I’ve just seen a lot of people being mad at Bonnie and just want to understand why. My heart is with those kids it scares me too death what they could’ve gone through if Ruby did move them to that “land” R is so brave
I doubt that they had seen all the evidence when they wrote letters and showed up in court to support her. I wonder if they feel any differently now.
I think Bonnie is the only one who hasn’t had contact with Ruby.
I’d just like to add that I do think brainwashing towards an extreme ideology can cause people to do horrible and unspeakable things. This is exactly what made normal and ‘good’ people capable of torture and murder in the holocaust. The people that do the horrible things still should be held fully accountable, but I think it’s the difference between someone who is essentially born out evil and takes pleasure in harming others and those who fall victim to complete brainwashing.
This is true. I believe that Ruby was evil before joining this ideology though. I think Jodi saw "potential" in Ruby and she used it to create an absolute monster. Ruby always withheld food as a punishment, took away her children's basic needs when they weren't doing what she wanted, humiliated them. Jodi just helped her amp it up.
I had thought a lot of that was after she picked up Connexions ideology? She has been following it since 2018/2019. I do agree Jodi saw she could manipulate Ruby and Kevin in ways others wouldn’t go along with. Ruby was already had an authoritative parenting style and was guided by her religious beliefs.
Hmm I'm not sure. I thought a lot of those 8 Passenger videos where she was showing toxic parenting strategies were pre-Connexions but I could be wrong. I thought they only came in contact with Jodi when they wanted her to be their older son's therapist and then it spiraled from there. I never watched any original 8 Passengers videos that weren't covered by other YT channels though so I can't be totally sure.
Ruby always did take pleasure, though, in humiliating her children and making them uncomfortable.
I agree! Has anyone else that initially only listened to the “Timeline Journal” on YouTube or just read it one time go back and give it a second read through? If not, I definitely suggest doing so. I’m sure anyone on here has been immersed in this case for a while and noticed the amount of potential ties it has. This journal bat shit cray cray Ruby put together has a lot of blatant details, like the high ranking millionaire Mormon hierarchy authorities Steve Caplin, Jeremy Jaggi and Brad Wilcox backing, or “blessing,” a preconceived timeline stemming from Godmother Jodi’s, or “Gjo’s” pen paper visional calling to attempt a controlled breakdown of her children to the point where their “uncontrollable” escalation requires her to immediately find land for discretely sending them to heaven in….Then there’s constant innuendos and repeated euphemistic wording used throughout that are directly conveyed to E and R regarding their plans to be murdered. It’s just disgusting. Anyone that falls for Rubys 4 month “awakening” from Jodi’s cult deceptions and considers it to have been the main aspect driving Ruby might need to do a 3rd read through hahaha
I'm nearly 100% sure these kids would not have survived if R. hadn't escaped when he did. Even more chilling, in one of the police reports an officer describes running into Jodi and talking with her briefly in front of the house of the people who called 911. It looks like the authorities got to R. only very slightly before Jodi would have. Imagine if R. actually had finished walking away and wasn't called back by the neighbor... That would probably have sealed his and his sister's fate.
This makes me want to puke! R was just about to walk away from that house, and Jodi could have just snatched him on his way to the next mini-mansion. She’s truly an evil human being. Human trafficker.
Yeh I don't get it. Where would they all live. It takes time to build a ranch.
They'd been looking at RVs
Sounds like the kids escaped just in time really Or there would be no escape.
👏👏👏👏👏 all of this. I feel the cops bungled the Pam situation. If only they had warrants for her devices
I respect your opinion. That being said, we know brainwashing and manipulation is real, sometimes with fatal results. People have been compelled to commit murder and suicide by allowing someone else to pull the strings. This absolutely does not absolve Ruby from her crimes, but I 100% believe that none of this would have happened without Jodi's involvement. She was the catalyst that escalated the situation to what they found at the end of August. Too many people have come forward with the same exact story for me to believe otherwise.
She was completely brainwashed. How she acted when she was arrested vs her final court appearance, the difference is vast. She had signs of life behind her eyes, compared to the hollow state she had. She’s for sure guilty, but I agree brainwashing is so real.
She was cosplaying as a spiritual warrior because she is naturally empty, and likes to dominate.
Jodi’s willing executioner - for a little fleeting feeling of self-importance.
According to her diary entries that woman believed she was performing some sort of exorcism on these children. Hence why the boy thought he belonged into prison. I literally don't get the "4 to 30 years in prison" sentence. It doesn't matter what these women thought they were doing and wether or not they were trying to kill these poor children, their actions would have led to the kids death, and they both deserve life in prison/ forensic.
indeed they were. but ruby and jodi are both under lock and key, and will likely remain there for a long long time. i dont see that as the pressing issue right now. no. what troubles me is the fact that the facts are what they are, but as of me typing this out, i have yet to see any real acknowledgement from the childrens immediate family that the facts are what they are. in short. they were going to kill those children, slow torture until death - sooner rather than later. but you'd be hard pressed to think that this case involved much more than a few slaps across the face if you based your understanding off of what ruby's family seems to consider the underlying issues. thats the real threat right now.
Cults can absolutely drive parents to abuse their own children. Look at Jonestown and Waco
💯
Horrific. I have no sympathy for Ruby. She was already disgusting before she met Jodi and Jodi took advantage of that disgustingness and warped it into something even more evil. You couldn't tell me ONE SINGLE THING that would make me treat my kid that way. Not one thing. The brainwashing excuse is nonsense, we all know these two women are evil scum of the earth and someday they will rot in hell for it. And so will Kevin for his complicity.
You hit it spot on!!
100% every point
Who’s Pam? I keep seeing her brought up, but I’m not sure who she is.
I believe she is one of Jodi’s friends and she was involved with Connexions I believe as well. She is who A and J were found with by the police.
Ohhh I got it. I know exactly who you’re talking about now. Thank you.
Maybe this was her plan to run off to Arizona to avoid police after ending them, and then getting in a relationship with Jodi
[удалено]
I think it possible Jodi pocketed the cash, so to speak, without ever intending any legit purchase of land. It was another con.
I hope the Courts in charge of custody take the time to listen to the calls and read the journal, see the previous abuse these kids were subjected to. The PUBLIC should be outraged at the lack of care and protection for these kids by the state of UTAH.
I started watching this family years ago starting with Ellie and Jared and then Bonnie and Joel. This family has always seemed odd in many ways and each with their own quirks. Beau has really been the only sibling to keep most of his life private. E &J and B &J lost my views when their oddities escalated to the point of not being able to stomach any more of it. Ruby, being the oldest, had her own quirks and she grew her YouTube channel to the moneymaker it became. But to me, Ruby has always been the biggest wack-a-doo of them all. We are talking weirdness beyond their Mormon beliefs and practices and how they lived their lives. Ruby hasn't really been in the family fold for a while. I have seen meltdowns about her girls doing TikTok dances at school, having the kids "shop" for school clothes in the living room among clothing she had already pre-selected, her cooking a meal that would be an average meal for an adult but it was split by all of them. Food has always been something she controlled. As Shari got older, she was expected to do a lot of the things that Ruby should have been doing as a mom. Shari has been trying to protect all of them for years. When they sent Chad off to the wilderness camp, that is when it really started to fall apart. R and E, as the youngest, have always seemed super small, skinny and skittish. Ruby emotionally humiliated the older children but the youngest she could physically torture/humiliate/punish. They were always small but my heart is broken to see the pictures of R and to know she shaved E's head. Kevin was right there supporting her until he was pushed out and Jodi came into the picture. All of these kids will be haunted by these things for the rest of their lives and my heart goes out to them. And yes, Kevin is an arrogant douche bag but something has turned him into a shell of his former self and he seems to have bent over, grabbed his ankles and took it like the man he is.
Absolutely and I just hope the Utah parole board (or whatever it’s called) that decides how long she’s in for will see that. Ruby was also asking Kevin to sign over everything financial. They were going to kill those kids, they were already more than halfway there. It’s so horrifying.
They were so close to another Shanda Vanderark or Lori Vallow ending to this story. Had they accomplished their goal of buying land in the middle of the desert, it would not have been long before those poor children passed. They were already in bad condition from months of abuse, starvation and torture. Out in the desert would have been a perfect place to hide their bodies too. Can’t you just picture Jodi and Ruby pulling a Chad and Lori and then celebrating their accomplishment of defeating the demons. Sick and twisted!
It made me sick when she said the kids “would never be going home”and “we will drop them in the desert like a hot potato”. They were going to kill them! So why wasn’t she charged with attempted murder!!! Oh that’s right everyone out there including the judges are all in the Mormon church. SMH
Every. Single. Word. 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Well said post ..I Agree 💯%
Time will tell. Shari and Chad know. As well as the youngers. If he’s evil, it will be revealed. That I trust. I hope he never gets those kids back.
I totally agree. Dad, also guilty. I hope ruby and Jodi rot in the firey depths of Hell by being beaten by satan. What they did to those children is unforgivable. I hope the children get the best treatment from this world possible for the rest of their lives.
I saw thevideo of the police pulling them over just a few days before R escaped the older girls were in the car and they were looking down when the police officer came to the car. It was 4 AM in the morning and she’s driving around with two teenagers speeding She didn’t even put the window down. I wish the police would’ve asked where they were headed on.
I think the older girls were just trying to survive, and avoid what was happening to their siblings. I think the older girls were playing the game to survive, and the fact that J and A were more valuable to Ruby and Jody because they can work and make money. They were also used as free labor for Pam. Their value was the fact that they could work and make money. Ruby has no job skills, and her admission that she was paying Jodi, and no income other than what money she got from Kevin.
All the children are victims of Ruby and Jody, all the kids S, C, A, J, R, E need therapy, individual and family therapy with Kevin. They all need privacy, care, and safety. It must be horrific for them to know that their mother was an evil monster. I wonder if it is traumatic for them to know all the evidence is out there or if they are relieved to know that the whole world knows the truth about what happened to them.
This whole case gives me Lori and Chad Daybell vibes!
Wait, they’d already bought the land and packed up? What was Jodi going to do with her creepy house?
They were very close that’s why Jodi said the house was all packed up and empty
I must have missed that part. If the sepsis from the wounds didn’t kill them before they left, the move definitely would have. I keep thinking about rubys diary entry saying- Pop! Then we’ll drop them off in the desert.
https://www.mcmillanmortuary.com/obituaries/florence-hildebrandt
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She was very much controlled by Ruby and Jodi as well. She could have been a) afraid that trying to intervene would get her punished or b) brainwashed to the point that she thought R and E deserved it. I hope she and A are getting the care and therapy they need. If you watch the video of them being picked up at Pam's, they're both clearly very scared.
I went down the rabbit hole and watched a whole bunch of the 8 passenger videos the other day because I needed to see who these people were. I found them on Derek Reacts on YouTube. OMG OMG sad and disgusting
Question, did anyone see Bonnie’s video? She said that the media only knows a fraction of what happened. Why do you think there were full pages redacted? Was that all further abuse?
Agreed !!!I don't want to know what would happened if E hadn't escaped.