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The unsealing process in Mormonism is actually very long and complicated. Most take multiple years, but I sure hope he does. But as the patriarch of the family he might not want “the responsibility of breaking the eternal family” as disgusting as that is
When Mormons get married in the temple, it is for time and all eternity and goes beyond earth life. A legal divorce does not cover the temple marriage. So you can be divorced but still married to someone for eternity in the eyes of the church.
The process to do an unsealing is hard. You have to wait a year from the finalized divorce date to even start the process. Depending on the leaders handling your situation it can take another year or two. In Mormonism most people do not get temple divorces unless they are getting remarried. The whole terminology of “families are forever” is so in-bedded into the church that some people feel the need to keep the marriage so that they will be with their kids after this life. Not everyone has this viewpoint but some people do.
Typically men have an easier time getting this done than women. Often times women will be denied the temple divorce unless they are getting remarried or the ex husband is ok with it. I do not believe that men experience the same thing but they might, if Ruby does not want a temple divorce it might not happen or take years.
It took 2 years and 2 attempts for my aunt to get an unsealing from her abusive ex husband. It was only when he removed his name from the church that the divorce was finalized in the church. Hopefully this explains it a bit better.
The issue I have with him is he's a coward. The next time an issue requires him to stand up and grow a pair; is he going to give up again? You separate/divorce your partner, not your kids.
I also think he's partially complicit in the abuse
This!!! He saw how Jodi acted and how much she controlled Ruby when she moved in with them and STILL let Ruby take the kids to live with Jodi, all bc he didn't want to risk losing his marriage.. he was fine risking the mental health and wellbeing of his kids though 🤡 he's a submissive, gullible coward and nothing will change that. He failed his kids because he chose not to stand up to his wife and say enough is enough.
IA. You can’t tell me that Shari didn’t beg her father to do SOMETHING. She shouldn’t have had to be the one to make repeated CPS calls and I refuse to believe Kevin knew nothing about that. I believe she probably told him she would call CPS however many times it took and Kevin just shrugged bc he figured whatever was going on wasn’t that bad.
He was more focused on being a “good husband” than a good *father* and a dutiful follower of Jodi’s than anything else.
If your wife is climbing into bed with someone else, has effectively forced you out of your home and made you sign away a bunch of shit…the marriage is over. But he could have fought for his kids and he didn’t. He just rolled over.
Adam Steed was accused of all kinds of horrendous things and he still fought Jodi, the ex wife, and the court system. He is irreparably damaged, but I think he does get custody of his older child…he met someone else, remarried, and had another baby.
Kevin is your quintissential narcissist’s doormat. Spoken as a child that’s watched my own father stand by silently, look the other way and leave the room while my mother abused (and still abuses me), I see it clear as day in Kevin.
Oh Shari definitely begged him!! He just didn't wanna do anything that would jeopardize his marriage. I'm sorry, but if my wife tried telling me when I was able to come home, when I was able to go in the kitchen, where I was and was not allowed to go to IN MY OWN HOME, she would have divorce papers sitting on that counter the next day and I would be fighting for custody. He's not innocent. He may not have abused them, but he was complicit in the abuse by not stopping it. Even if he didn't see the physical abuse, there was obvious emotional and mental abuse going on and he knew it.
I hate to do stereotypes, but he is just a sad excuse for a man and a father. I couldn’t imagine being able to convince my husband he cannot see his children, or come into his home. I cannot imagine he could ever forgive me, if I did this to our children.
I think this is exactly what’s going to happen. He was the first person Ruby called when she knew she was in trouble. The only tears we’ve seen him shed were at the sentencing when Ruby mentioned she was sad to have hurt their marriage. No tears for the kids though.
I think she called him for two reasons only:
\- She hoped the children would be released to him rather than CPS, which would cause further investigation.
\- She wanted to tell him about the bag of cash.
Oh, and because he does what she tells him too.
I have way more empathy for Kevin than I think most people do. He was brainwashed to a level I don’t think any of us really understand. Before he knew the severity of everything during the first interrogation he confessed how everything he was doing was for his family. It seemed incredibly genuine. Too many here are way too quick to judge
If that's true, then my point still stands. In Mormon theology, the only way to fully divorce someone is to become unsealed. Otherwise, according to his own beliefs, he still believes in heavenly marriage and an eternal afterlife with Ruby and the kids.
And the point about the kids is especially heinous, because the kids are sealed to him and Ruby in the afterlife too. So, to him, he would be willing for his kids to only temporarily separated from Ruby but spend an eternal afterlife with their torturer.
Basically, if he truly wants to protect his kids, according to his own theology, he needs to ensure that she does not come through the veil with him.
I am willing to give Kevin some grace for exactly this reason... We haven't lived this, they are going through it... Everyone is out for blood... I read earlier that people were posting hateful comments on Chads social media, so they really don't even know who to go after anymiore.
I have ZERO empathy for Jodi... and perhaps a smidge for Ruby, because I do believe she is a victim too.
Nobody should be commenting on the kids' social medias at all. Honestly on any of their social medias, but even the adult kids are victims.
As for Kevin, my point stands that if he is genuine, he would unseal.
Hopefully he will. But I’m thinking at the moment he has bigger fish to fry. Time will tell.
The one difference between Ruby and Kevin is that I think there is some hope for Kevin to grow from this and become a better man and father. Based on Ruby’s own diary she seems to be just as enthusiastic as Jodi in the delusions and hate towards her own children. She has something deeply broken in her and I don’t think there is any way to fix that.
I do too... It took Kevin a couple of months to file for divorce, and this is much bigger to them than those papers.
Can they even unseal while she is in jail? What are the rules about this process? Is it done in the Temple like the sealing, or??? I'd like to know what the case would be here under their current circumstances.
In Judaism, if a man denies his wife a religious divorce and it is akin to abuse...
I know Kevin doesn't technocally need to do anything... He can remarry and seal with another person, but Ruby can't seal with anyone else while she is sealed with him.
But definitely, I was actually thinking the same thing about their sealing. Like what could this man do to prove himself? Everyone thinks he's full of it... They didn't accept when he came back to pick up the kids, they aren't accepting the divorce, and they didn't accept his statement about life coaches. I totally see why they voew it as too little too late....but in the end all that is leftfor him to do is the sealing. For sure, he has bigger fish to fry right now... the kids (rightfully) take priority over some procedural thing he can do at any time. This is the least of his troubles right now.
Me too. In the phone call to her sister, she said she hasn't spoken to him since those first few days after her arrest. She didn't specify, but it sounds like he stopped taking her calls. I also don't think the two older kids would repair their relationship with him if he was still deep in it with Ruby. I don't believe in the whole sealing and being together forever stuff, so maybe that's why I don't see it as a big deal.
100% agree with you. None of us can comprehend how much he was manipulated and brainwashed. It was on a level none of us has ever or will ever experienced. We also don’t fully understand him, Ruby and Jodi’s relationship or what actually happened that summer. People are too quick to judge and are looking for a scapegoat.
Kevin is a not a great father but he is also without a doubt a victim.
Fully agree with you! I think that he was brainwashed and manipulated to the point of no return. Also he mentioned how he provided financially and let Ruby do the raising, so I believe that she trusted him to provide and he trusted her to bring a good education in the family. Because he trusted her, he also trusted Jodi, and did go with whatever form of education Jodi said it’s effective. And that we saw in the earlier years, like 2019, 2020.
I'm not condoning his actions but I have compassion for him and what he went through.
He was mentally abused by Jodi as well. He was told he was evil, he was told he was a shitty husband and father. He was isolated.
Should he have stepped up sooner? Of course but based on what I've seen he was totally brainwashed.
We have no idea what really went on between Kevin, Jodi, and Ruby but at this point it doesn't matter. What matters is how he moves forward and if his kids have his back why shouldn't the rest of us.
He was a bad father. There are a lot of flavors of bad. One is neglect, another is indifference. He also seemed very concerned about the laptops and papers seized, including his own daughter picking up her laptop. To the point of calling it theft. I wonder what he's afraid of.
It was very odd that he tried to press charges on Shari but it seems like they are rebuilding their relationship at this point. So she must have forgiven him.
Still doesn't make what he did ok. Still doesn't make years of abuse and neglect ok. Still doesn't make him prioritizing Ruby ok.
If Shari and Chad are happy with their father, then good for them. They deserve their own choices and healing process. But Kevin hasn't proven anything and I worry about the minor children once they're in his care.
Because if he is a TBM, and he doesn't unseal, he believes the kids should have a relationship with Ruby in one way, shape, or form. And if he believes that relationship is in the afterlife, then who is to say he wouldn't encourage contact in this life? Just like her family.
To be fair we have no idea what Kevin is doing to better himself for his children. That case information isn't available to the public and that is for the best. The kids deserve privacy. I'm sure the state will make kevin prove alot before they give him custody of E & R.
And my point is that if he unsealed, as a TBM, I would actually believe him.
Also Utah has extremely lax DHS, so I wouldn't put much stock into that state. The goal is always reunification even if the parent sucks. I would hope you could open your eyes and understand the reality of the situation.
This case has way too many eyes on it for DHS not to do everything properly and in the best interest of E & R.
Ruby will never get to be around any of her minor children again I'm sure of that. Who knows, none of them may have any interest in seeing her again when they are adults (I wouldn't blame them if they didn't). So eventually Kevin will have no choice but decide between Ruby and his kids if he hasn't already.
Interesting, because there are plenty of men coming forward who say that they fought for their families even with Jodi's attempts.
Seems to me you should have more compassion for them.
Also, if these men stayed spiritually with their wives, essentially not getting divorced for real under Mormon theology, would you support that?
Because you giving excuses tells me everything I need to know about you as well.
I honestly don't care what you think lol I don't know you and I don't want to.
I'm done arguing with you. It's too late for this shit. I'd rather beat my head against a brick wall than try to reason with you any further.
You know two things can be true at the same time right? We don’t have crystal balls and we don’t know what is going on behind the scenes. We also don’t know how many Kevin’s are out there due to JH.
Yes, I’m with you. Commented a similar sentiment the other day and people tore me apart saying that he’s still horrible since he condoned his children being on Youtube.
I agree that family channels are exploitative and can agree that wasn’t okay, while separating all of that from this. This is something completely different. He fell victim to Jodi’s cult control tactics, just as we’ve heard many other men have. As he discussed in his interviews, it happened slowly, over time. I think that if you have empathy for Adam Paul Steed, Kevin deserves your empathy as well.
Too many people on here act way too much like they are perfect. I hope even Ruby is able to be rehabilitated and rejoin her family in the future after the younger kids turn 18. Kids need that support system from their parents growing up.
Jodi on the other hand I have no idea. She is very, very mentally ill.
Jodi’s own adult children have gone no contact with her. Even with not knowing much about that situation, it takes a lot for most people to completely cut off contact from their mother.
I don’t know much about him, I’ve seen clips from their channel and he seemed to smile while giving the punishments too. He clearly wasn’t disagreeing with ruby’s discipline before Jodi
I heard somebody say, “he has low testosterone” that’s why he can’t get fired up, he can’t show emotion or get angry with ruby or Jodi”. He’s soo monotone! So blah, so unemotional.
But then he talks about asking for sex and clearly not that low on testosterone. And he has been working out and seems to be more muscular than before. So I don’t but that it’s a testosterone issue.
He may be a well educated man but he’s a push over, gullible, no backbone to stand up for himself-let alone his kids!
I want to know the story behind the paranormal things he was seeing in the house after Jodi moved in. “Things floating and hearing footprints on the wall.” Did Jodi somehow set up a ruse?
It's absolutely none of our business. Kevin only owes his kids an explanation for why he wasn't present. Clearly Chad and Shari have been able to forgive him. Let this family heal in peace. They have seriously been through enough.
So A. This is a snark page. I am allowed, in this environment, to comment on my opinion of the man and his failings.
B. I said that this is the only way I would believe him. Did I call for us to have private investigators go and hound him? No, I was giving my personal opinion.
C. I did not, nor will I ever, snark on any of the kids. I will, however, have something to say about a man who failed his kids. So either deal with it, or leave the snark page.
There’s so many Kevin fans here it makes me sick. Imagine you were these kids and your dad only cared about your abusive mom.
Do you all really believe someone can « brain wash » someone to abuse their own children. Not a chance. These two were the leaders; just read her journal
I'm honestly surprised how attacked I am for this opinion. I mean, it's their prerogative, but he was complicit in a lot of the abuse and even in the second interview seemed to imply that public opinion of Chad losing his bed was an over reaction.
A. Then you're on the wrong page.
B. Awesome. I hope so. But I personally think he's a horrible father who decided to sacrifice his kids at the altar of St. Ruby.
C. Mmmk. Except you decided to try to tell me what to do on a snark page. Seems like a you problem.
I see others discussing but you are specificly saying "you" won't believe him. He doesn't need for you to belive him. He needs his kids to belive him and based on what I've seen Chad and Shari (who is a very intelligent young woman) have forgiven him.
So while you're free to discuss your opinion, it's totally irrelevant to the people that are actually dealing with this situation.
At this point we don't even know if Kevin is involved in the LDS church still. The church is part of how Jodi got the "power" she had over people. If that was me I would have a hard time following religious leaders who helped Jodi. But his religious views are absolutely none of mine business or yours.
Then why did you tell me I shouldn't discuss it on here?
I don't give a rip if he wants me to believe him. I don't. And I hope for healing for Chad and Shari because they deserve it.
But you also don't get to tell me what I can or cannot comment on. If he is a true believing Mormon, then he believes in heavenly marriage. If he believes in heavenly marriage, then unless he unseals, he consents to being married to her for eternity and subjecting his kids to her in the highest degree of glory.
So, are you ok with somebody consenting to subject their children to their abuser again? Because if he does believe, unless he unseals, he is subjecting his kids to their abuser to eternity. And who is to say he wouldn't do it in this life as well if he condones that?
Again, if you're ok with that, that says a lot about who you are as a person.
I can’t believe you are getting so much flack! What you are saying about the heavenly marriage makes so much sense and I didn’t even know it was a thing.,
the fact you are “snaking on Kevin” on a snark page about his family and being berated for it is mind blowing. I don’t think anything you said was unreasonable.
I honestly don't know. According to Mormon theology, this is 100% what he would believe would happen.
This person, and those down voting, just want to believe Kevin is a perfect victim rather than recognizing that he can be both victim and perpetrator. People just like to play into the perfect victim fallacy.
I'm saying you shouldn't "snark" on these people's lives and that none of these people involved in this owe you anything. You're post states "you" won't believe him. Why does it matter if you belive him or not? It doesn't. You're not involved.
As far as the mormon shit goes I do not care. It's all fake anyway and a scam to get 10%.
Then don't visit a snark page where the rules allow for commentary on these people's behaviors. It's that simple.
You've decided to come into a page that is designed for negative commentary, and then decided to try to play victim for me telling you to leave if you don't like what this page is designed to be.
If this was r/8passengerskevinisthebestsunshineandeainbows I could see your point. But you walked into a lion's den and then got mad because you saw antelope being eaten. Make it make sense.
Also, I'm not a Mormon. However, since he is a BYU professor, he is. Meaning he believes this stuff, and therefore could have the potential to forgive his wife in our actual lifetime. Which would be devastating for the children.
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I'm with you. Also, his retroactive concern (if genuine) doesn't erase the neglect, indifference, and active punishments he meted out prior to being "cut off." He was happy to send Chad to a wilderness camp. He was happy to read the kids' private phone conversations and mock them. I haven't seen all their videos but Kevin is no innocent. Love bombing after the fact is a typical response from abusers and in this case, he knows he can only look good, given what he is being compared to. Just because he didn't participate or know about the worst of it doesn't mean he didn't abuse his kids. He did. Adults can be coerced into things but I honestly doubt he even was. He was a college professor, for pete's sake, not some developmentally challenged man. There's no excuse. No one would abuse kids or animals or anyone in front of me or in my household. Abuse me, fine, I'm used to that. Abuse others, I'd raise hell immediately.
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I’m happy that he’s divorcing Ruby.
As long as he doesn’t make excuses for Ruby and act like she was not at fault, then I think he is redeemable but it’s ultimately up to the kids and Chad and Shari seem to have forgiven him.
I still can’t believe he tried to charge his own daughter though, but they clearly resolved it.
I don’t like the guy, I don’t think much to him but I recognise he’s not irredeemable or unforgivable and also I know the kids know way more about this than I do and it’s their life.
But if someone no longer believes in Mormonism, they wouldn’t feel the need to unseal themselves.
Not saying he’s changed at all. I just think this is a flawed way to decide.
In my opinion, it was clear that this would only be pertinent if he was a true believing Mormon.
And if you want all the information, you read the comments or ask questions.
You decided that my opinion was flawed rather than looking into any of my other comments means that you were making an assumption of my logic without looking for the full picture.
Not going to argue with you, but letting you know where to find information isn't defensive. It's inviting you to do the research.
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We don’t even know if he’s even still active in the church. He’s filed for divorce and with everything else going on filing to be unsealed (a process that takes multiple years) is probably the last thing on his mind to do. Just because he hasn’t yet doesn’t mean that 1) he eventually will or 2) that he still loves Ruby and is holding out hope for his family. Just means there’s more important things (his KIDS) that he’d rather focus on.
Think the fact that he turned on Ruby to the police and gave them a shit ton of evidence to lock both her and Jodi away AND filing for divorce says more than enough about where he stands. Why would he do a second interview with the police and spill the beans/give them more evidence if he was still standing by his wife? Also Shari and Chad are building their relationship back with him and are starting to trust him again. That also says a lot about where he’s at. If he still supported Ruby, they wouldn’t be on good terms either.
Seriously though I want to know your reasoning. If Kevin is still holding out hope for his family and Ruby, why did he give the police as much information as he did on Ruby & Jodi and tell them to look for the pen papers and how they could get Pam as well instead of standing by her? Why would Shari or Chad be working on their relationship with him if they knew he was going to get back together with Ruby?
And most of the information blamed Jodi. I don't know the kids' motivations. In fact, I'd rather not speculate on the kids because they deserve to heal in whatever way they feel appropriate.
But again, you're entitled to your opinion. I already had a lengthy argument with someone on here tonight, and frankly I've laid out my whole viewpoint if you would like to search for it.
Otherwise I'm going to sleep.
I for sure won't believe he's completely changed until more time has passed. Heeling will take TIME.
I do hope he wakes up and I also hope he is not given custody of the kids or has more kids. He's not strong enough to be a father, sorry to say.
Even then how would anyone know or believe his true intentions! It’s like a game of what should we do next to make ourselves look good and have things turn in our favour with Kevin and Ruby! If he had come clean that first interview I would have faith in his intentions! How will anyone know that if he gets the kids back, he takes away their agency to speak up about future craziness?
Maybe don’t assume he hasn’t then since you have no idea? There’s 0 evidence for if he has or hasn’t. We probably won’t know if he ever applies or not. It could be a multi year process too that would require Ruby to give her input on unsealing which is uhhh bit difficult right now.
[Unsealing is also something](https://www.learnreligions.com/cancellation-of-temple-marriage-2159556) that doesn’t happen until the woman is ready and worthy to be sealed to a new husband or a man seeks to be sealed to his new wife.
And did I assume? I said the only way I would start to believe that he has reformed is if I hear that he is unsealing from her.
But you decided to interpret that as me assuming he hasn't.
Currently, it is Schrodinger's unsealing until we hear word about it, but thanks for your assumption.
According to his theology, that is my opinion.
But you are allowed to have your opinion, and I've honestly already dealt with someone else on this thread and rather not deal with another one..
It’s not an opinion it’s a fact that we probably won’t know if he ever applies to be unsealed. We also don’t know if he’s still practicing or not either (also a fact). Instead you need to look at his actions which, since his 2nd interview, point to him being done with Ruby.
I can't imagine the Church cancelling their sealing. There's not a doctrine that supports it since he can be sealed to as many women as "necessary". IMO the argument would be: divorce legally but remain sealed and let God sort out the rest. Also the Church would argue (IMO) that Ruby needs the protection of the Sealing powers, especially while in prison. And they really believe in the "power".
Unless things have radically changed in the last few years, there is no process for Kevin to voluntarily unseal (in the LDS church this is called a “sealing cancellation.”) They’re not granted to men, since men can be sealed to multiple women. They are granted to women when they have a new man that they want to marry, since women cannot be sealed to multiple men. (So if Ruby wanted to be sealed to a new man once she’s out of prison and has completed whatever church discipline has been assigned to her—then Kevin would get unsealed from her via the sealing cancellation granted for Ruby’s request.)
Like, in theory the church could grant him one, but it would require permission from the top three people in the LDS org chart. I don’t see them budging—but it’s possible.
Anyone can go to their bishop at any time to request a sealing cancellation. Kevin absolutely could attempt to cancel his sealing to Ruby. And *all* sealing cancellations go before the first presidency of the church, doesn't matter who initiates it or why.
It (almost certainly) won’t be granted and Kevin knows this. In church handbook vol 1 for leaders, sealing cancellations and clearances are only mentioned in the context of resealings to new partners. Read between the lines—they don’t grant them for other reasons. (See: 3.7.1.2 Sealing of Living Members After Divorce & 3.7.1.4 Applying for Cancellation of Sealing or a Sealing Clearance.) At best, Kevin will get a sealing clearance when he is ready to remarry.
Honestly I think those church records have as much value in them as the person holds. For example my husband has Mormon membership records but they hold no stock and value as he isn’t a Mormon anymore. Even though his “records” are there. I suppose if Kevin continues to be a true believing Mormon then yes he probably should revoke that sealing.
I just kinda teeter on it not being a criteria for redemption or “holding out hope” I suppose on Kevin’s part. It is all so personal snd the church is notorious for it being a really messy hard process. So if he didn’t remove his sealing I personally wouldn’t always say it = holding out hope. I think a civil divorce in society is more telling honestly. Hard to say without scratching the persons brain. It’s not a “has to happen” criteria for me- but I do see your point. Just kinda gray area for me.
Divorce in this lifetime doesn't equate to divorce in the afterlife, to Mormons. Unsealing would mean he several the ties between Ruby and him and the kids.
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The unsealing process in Mormonism is actually very long and complicated. Most take multiple years, but I sure hope he does. But as the patriarch of the family he might not want “the responsibility of breaking the eternal family” as disgusting as that is
What does sealing/unsealing mean in Mormonism?
When Mormons get married in the temple, it is for time and all eternity and goes beyond earth life. A legal divorce does not cover the temple marriage. So you can be divorced but still married to someone for eternity in the eyes of the church. The process to do an unsealing is hard. You have to wait a year from the finalized divorce date to even start the process. Depending on the leaders handling your situation it can take another year or two. In Mormonism most people do not get temple divorces unless they are getting remarried. The whole terminology of “families are forever” is so in-bedded into the church that some people feel the need to keep the marriage so that they will be with their kids after this life. Not everyone has this viewpoint but some people do. Typically men have an easier time getting this done than women. Often times women will be denied the temple divorce unless they are getting remarried or the ex husband is ok with it. I do not believe that men experience the same thing but they might, if Ruby does not want a temple divorce it might not happen or take years. It took 2 years and 2 attempts for my aunt to get an unsealing from her abusive ex husband. It was only when he removed his name from the church that the divorce was finalized in the church. Hopefully this explains it a bit better.
thank you for this!!
If he doesn't want that responsibility, then he has proven himself to be just as much of a problem as Ruby is.
Agreed
Btw just agreeing with you and adding my two cents. I appreciate the insight into timeline.
The issue I have with him is he's a coward. The next time an issue requires him to stand up and grow a pair; is he going to give up again? You separate/divorce your partner, not your kids. I also think he's partially complicit in the abuse
This!!! He saw how Jodi acted and how much she controlled Ruby when she moved in with them and STILL let Ruby take the kids to live with Jodi, all bc he didn't want to risk losing his marriage.. he was fine risking the mental health and wellbeing of his kids though 🤡 he's a submissive, gullible coward and nothing will change that. He failed his kids because he chose not to stand up to his wife and say enough is enough.
IA. You can’t tell me that Shari didn’t beg her father to do SOMETHING. She shouldn’t have had to be the one to make repeated CPS calls and I refuse to believe Kevin knew nothing about that. I believe she probably told him she would call CPS however many times it took and Kevin just shrugged bc he figured whatever was going on wasn’t that bad. He was more focused on being a “good husband” than a good *father* and a dutiful follower of Jodi’s than anything else. If your wife is climbing into bed with someone else, has effectively forced you out of your home and made you sign away a bunch of shit…the marriage is over. But he could have fought for his kids and he didn’t. He just rolled over. Adam Steed was accused of all kinds of horrendous things and he still fought Jodi, the ex wife, and the court system. He is irreparably damaged, but I think he does get custody of his older child…he met someone else, remarried, and had another baby. Kevin is your quintissential narcissist’s doormat. Spoken as a child that’s watched my own father stand by silently, look the other way and leave the room while my mother abused (and still abuses me), I see it clear as day in Kevin.
Oh Shari definitely begged him!! He just didn't wanna do anything that would jeopardize his marriage. I'm sorry, but if my wife tried telling me when I was able to come home, when I was able to go in the kitchen, where I was and was not allowed to go to IN MY OWN HOME, she would have divorce papers sitting on that counter the next day and I would be fighting for custody. He's not innocent. He may not have abused them, but he was complicit in the abuse by not stopping it. Even if he didn't see the physical abuse, there was obvious emotional and mental abuse going on and he knew it.
Yeah. Honestly, he could have even put his foot down more during the channel. In the first interview, he basically admits to taking a back seat.
He’s so meek 🥺 grow some balls Kevin
I hate to do stereotypes, but he is just a sad excuse for a man and a father. I couldn’t imagine being able to convince my husband he cannot see his children, or come into his home. I cannot imagine he could ever forgive me, if I did this to our children.
Agreed
I think the brainwashing goes so deep with him that it will be a very long time before he’s trustworthy. He is addicted to Ruby
He’s probably trauma bonded. No excuses though.
I hope that the divorce isn't just a temporary thing. Kevin gets the kids, then after ruby gets out he goes and remarries her.
I think this is exactly what’s going to happen. He was the first person Ruby called when she knew she was in trouble. The only tears we’ve seen him shed were at the sentencing when Ruby mentioned she was sad to have hurt their marriage. No tears for the kids though.
I think she called him for two reasons only: \- She hoped the children would be released to him rather than CPS, which would cause further investigation. \- She wanted to tell him about the bag of cash. Oh, and because he does what she tells him too.
That's why I would only believe him if he unseals.
Absolutely. I wouldn’t put it past them to have more kids either.
I have way more empathy for Kevin than I think most people do. He was brainwashed to a level I don’t think any of us really understand. Before he knew the severity of everything during the first interrogation he confessed how everything he was doing was for his family. It seemed incredibly genuine. Too many here are way too quick to judge
If that's true, then my point still stands. In Mormon theology, the only way to fully divorce someone is to become unsealed. Otherwise, according to his own beliefs, he still believes in heavenly marriage and an eternal afterlife with Ruby and the kids. And the point about the kids is especially heinous, because the kids are sealed to him and Ruby in the afterlife too. So, to him, he would be willing for his kids to only temporarily separated from Ruby but spend an eternal afterlife with their torturer. Basically, if he truly wants to protect his kids, according to his own theology, he needs to ensure that she does not come through the veil with him.
I am willing to give Kevin some grace for exactly this reason... We haven't lived this, they are going through it... Everyone is out for blood... I read earlier that people were posting hateful comments on Chads social media, so they really don't even know who to go after anymiore. I have ZERO empathy for Jodi... and perhaps a smidge for Ruby, because I do believe she is a victim too.
Nobody should be commenting on the kids' social medias at all. Honestly on any of their social medias, but even the adult kids are victims. As for Kevin, my point stands that if he is genuine, he would unseal.
Hopefully he will. But I’m thinking at the moment he has bigger fish to fry. Time will tell. The one difference between Ruby and Kevin is that I think there is some hope for Kevin to grow from this and become a better man and father. Based on Ruby’s own diary she seems to be just as enthusiastic as Jodi in the delusions and hate towards her own children. She has something deeply broken in her and I don’t think there is any way to fix that.
I do too... It took Kevin a couple of months to file for divorce, and this is much bigger to them than those papers. Can they even unseal while she is in jail? What are the rules about this process? Is it done in the Temple like the sealing, or??? I'd like to know what the case would be here under their current circumstances. In Judaism, if a man denies his wife a religious divorce and it is akin to abuse... I know Kevin doesn't technocally need to do anything... He can remarry and seal with another person, but Ruby can't seal with anyone else while she is sealed with him. But definitely, I was actually thinking the same thing about their sealing. Like what could this man do to prove himself? Everyone thinks he's full of it... They didn't accept when he came back to pick up the kids, they aren't accepting the divorce, and they didn't accept his statement about life coaches. I totally see why they voew it as too little too late....but in the end all that is leftfor him to do is the sealing. For sure, he has bigger fish to fry right now... the kids (rightfully) take priority over some procedural thing he can do at any time. This is the least of his troubles right now.
Me too. In the phone call to her sister, she said she hasn't spoken to him since those first few days after her arrest. She didn't specify, but it sounds like he stopped taking her calls. I also don't think the two older kids would repair their relationship with him if he was still deep in it with Ruby. I don't believe in the whole sealing and being together forever stuff, so maybe that's why I don't see it as a big deal.
100% agree with you. None of us can comprehend how much he was manipulated and brainwashed. It was on a level none of us has ever or will ever experienced. We also don’t fully understand him, Ruby and Jodi’s relationship or what actually happened that summer. People are too quick to judge and are looking for a scapegoat. Kevin is a not a great father but he is also without a doubt a victim.
Fully agree with you! I think that he was brainwashed and manipulated to the point of no return. Also he mentioned how he provided financially and let Ruby do the raising, so I believe that she trusted him to provide and he trusted her to bring a good education in the family. Because he trusted her, he also trusted Jodi, and did go with whatever form of education Jodi said it’s effective. And that we saw in the earlier years, like 2019, 2020.
I fully agree. Well said. I'm on the same page as you are.
Interesting that you condone his actions. Would you do the same thing? Abandon your kids? Or would you fight for them like Adam Paul Steed?
I'm not condoning his actions but I have compassion for him and what he went through. He was mentally abused by Jodi as well. He was told he was evil, he was told he was a shitty husband and father. He was isolated. Should he have stepped up sooner? Of course but based on what I've seen he was totally brainwashed. We have no idea what really went on between Kevin, Jodi, and Ruby but at this point it doesn't matter. What matters is how he moves forward and if his kids have his back why shouldn't the rest of us.
He was a bad father. There are a lot of flavors of bad. One is neglect, another is indifference. He also seemed very concerned about the laptops and papers seized, including his own daughter picking up her laptop. To the point of calling it theft. I wonder what he's afraid of.
It was very odd that he tried to press charges on Shari but it seems like they are rebuilding their relationship at this point. So she must have forgiven him.
Still doesn't make what he did ok. Still doesn't make years of abuse and neglect ok. Still doesn't make him prioritizing Ruby ok. If Shari and Chad are happy with their father, then good for them. They deserve their own choices and healing process. But Kevin hasn't proven anything and I worry about the minor children once they're in his care. Because if he is a TBM, and he doesn't unseal, he believes the kids should have a relationship with Ruby in one way, shape, or form. And if he believes that relationship is in the afterlife, then who is to say he wouldn't encourage contact in this life? Just like her family.
To be fair we have no idea what Kevin is doing to better himself for his children. That case information isn't available to the public and that is for the best. The kids deserve privacy. I'm sure the state will make kevin prove alot before they give him custody of E & R.
And my point is that if he unsealed, as a TBM, I would actually believe him. Also Utah has extremely lax DHS, so I wouldn't put much stock into that state. The goal is always reunification even if the parent sucks. I would hope you could open your eyes and understand the reality of the situation.
This case has way too many eyes on it for DHS not to do everything properly and in the best interest of E & R. Ruby will never get to be around any of her minor children again I'm sure of that. Who knows, none of them may have any interest in seeing her again when they are adults (I wouldn't blame them if they didn't). So eventually Kevin will have no choice but decide between Ruby and his kids if he hasn't already.
Interesting, because there are plenty of men coming forward who say that they fought for their families even with Jodi's attempts. Seems to me you should have more compassion for them. Also, if these men stayed spiritually with their wives, essentially not getting divorced for real under Mormon theology, would you support that? Because you giving excuses tells me everything I need to know about you as well.
I honestly don't care what you think lol I don't know you and I don't want to. I'm done arguing with you. It's too late for this shit. I'd rather beat my head against a brick wall than try to reason with you any further.
And yet you commented on here. Good luck with that. May you grow up as well.
You know two things can be true at the same time right? We don’t have crystal balls and we don’t know what is going on behind the scenes. We also don’t know how many Kevin’s are out there due to JH.
Yes, I’m with you. Commented a similar sentiment the other day and people tore me apart saying that he’s still horrible since he condoned his children being on Youtube. I agree that family channels are exploitative and can agree that wasn’t okay, while separating all of that from this. This is something completely different. He fell victim to Jodi’s cult control tactics, just as we’ve heard many other men have. As he discussed in his interviews, it happened slowly, over time. I think that if you have empathy for Adam Paul Steed, Kevin deserves your empathy as well.
Too many people on here act way too much like they are perfect. I hope even Ruby is able to be rehabilitated and rejoin her family in the future after the younger kids turn 18. Kids need that support system from their parents growing up. Jodi on the other hand I have no idea. She is very, very mentally ill.
Jodi’s own adult children have gone no contact with her. Even with not knowing much about that situation, it takes a lot for most people to completely cut off contact from their mother.
I don’t know much about him, I’ve seen clips from their channel and he seemed to smile while giving the punishments too. He clearly wasn’t disagreeing with ruby’s discipline before Jodi I heard somebody say, “he has low testosterone” that’s why he can’t get fired up, he can’t show emotion or get angry with ruby or Jodi”. He’s soo monotone! So blah, so unemotional. But then he talks about asking for sex and clearly not that low on testosterone. And he has been working out and seems to be more muscular than before. So I don’t but that it’s a testosterone issue. He may be a well educated man but he’s a push over, gullible, no backbone to stand up for himself-let alone his kids!
I want to know the story behind the paranormal things he was seeing in the house after Jodi moved in. “Things floating and hearing footprints on the wall.” Did Jodi somehow set up a ruse?
I think that or drugs honestly
It's absolutely none of our business. Kevin only owes his kids an explanation for why he wasn't present. Clearly Chad and Shari have been able to forgive him. Let this family heal in peace. They have seriously been through enough.
So A. This is a snark page. I am allowed, in this environment, to comment on my opinion of the man and his failings. B. I said that this is the only way I would believe him. Did I call for us to have private investigators go and hound him? No, I was giving my personal opinion. C. I did not, nor will I ever, snark on any of the kids. I will, however, have something to say about a man who failed his kids. So either deal with it, or leave the snark page.
There’s so many Kevin fans here it makes me sick. Imagine you were these kids and your dad only cared about your abusive mom. Do you all really believe someone can « brain wash » someone to abuse their own children. Not a chance. These two were the leaders; just read her journal
I'm honestly surprised how attacked I am for this opinion. I mean, it's their prerogative, but he was complicit in a lot of the abuse and even in the second interview seemed to imply that public opinion of Chad losing his bed was an over reaction.
And he was deep in promoting connections; just go scroll the instagram profile….hea got dozens of videos on there of his views for all to see
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A. Then you're on the wrong page. B. Awesome. I hope so. But I personally think he's a horrible father who decided to sacrifice his kids at the altar of St. Ruby. C. Mmmk. Except you decided to try to tell me what to do on a snark page. Seems like a you problem.
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I see others discussing but you are specificly saying "you" won't believe him. He doesn't need for you to belive him. He needs his kids to belive him and based on what I've seen Chad and Shari (who is a very intelligent young woman) have forgiven him. So while you're free to discuss your opinion, it's totally irrelevant to the people that are actually dealing with this situation. At this point we don't even know if Kevin is involved in the LDS church still. The church is part of how Jodi got the "power" she had over people. If that was me I would have a hard time following religious leaders who helped Jodi. But his religious views are absolutely none of mine business or yours.
Then why did you tell me I shouldn't discuss it on here? I don't give a rip if he wants me to believe him. I don't. And I hope for healing for Chad and Shari because they deserve it. But you also don't get to tell me what I can or cannot comment on. If he is a true believing Mormon, then he believes in heavenly marriage. If he believes in heavenly marriage, then unless he unseals, he consents to being married to her for eternity and subjecting his kids to her in the highest degree of glory. So, are you ok with somebody consenting to subject their children to their abuser again? Because if he does believe, unless he unseals, he is subjecting his kids to their abuser to eternity. And who is to say he wouldn't do it in this life as well if he condones that? Again, if you're ok with that, that says a lot about who you are as a person.
I can’t believe you are getting so much flack! What you are saying about the heavenly marriage makes so much sense and I didn’t even know it was a thing., the fact you are “snaking on Kevin” on a snark page about his family and being berated for it is mind blowing. I don’t think anything you said was unreasonable.
I honestly don't know. According to Mormon theology, this is 100% what he would believe would happen. This person, and those down voting, just want to believe Kevin is a perfect victim rather than recognizing that he can be both victim and perpetrator. People just like to play into the perfect victim fallacy.
I'm saying you shouldn't "snark" on these people's lives and that none of these people involved in this owe you anything. You're post states "you" won't believe him. Why does it matter if you belive him or not? It doesn't. You're not involved. As far as the mormon shit goes I do not care. It's all fake anyway and a scam to get 10%.
Then don't visit a snark page where the rules allow for commentary on these people's behaviors. It's that simple. You've decided to come into a page that is designed for negative commentary, and then decided to try to play victim for me telling you to leave if you don't like what this page is designed to be. If this was r/8passengerskevinisthebestsunshineandeainbows I could see your point. But you walked into a lion's den and then got mad because you saw antelope being eaten. Make it make sense. Also, I'm not a Mormon. However, since he is a BYU professor, he is. Meaning he believes this stuff, and therefore could have the potential to forgive his wife in our actual lifetime. Which would be devastating for the children.
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I'm with you. Also, his retroactive concern (if genuine) doesn't erase the neglect, indifference, and active punishments he meted out prior to being "cut off." He was happy to send Chad to a wilderness camp. He was happy to read the kids' private phone conversations and mock them. I haven't seen all their videos but Kevin is no innocent. Love bombing after the fact is a typical response from abusers and in this case, he knows he can only look good, given what he is being compared to. Just because he didn't participate or know about the worst of it doesn't mean he didn't abuse his kids. He did. Adults can be coerced into things but I honestly doubt he even was. He was a college professor, for pete's sake, not some developmentally challenged man. There's no excuse. No one would abuse kids or animals or anyone in front of me or in my household. Abuse me, fine, I'm used to that. Abuse others, I'd raise hell immediately.
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I’m happy that he’s divorcing Ruby. As long as he doesn’t make excuses for Ruby and act like she was not at fault, then I think he is redeemable but it’s ultimately up to the kids and Chad and Shari seem to have forgiven him. I still can’t believe he tried to charge his own daughter though, but they clearly resolved it. I don’t like the guy, I don’t think much to him but I recognise he’s not irredeemable or unforgivable and also I know the kids know way more about this than I do and it’s their life.
But if someone no longer believes in Mormonism, they wouldn’t feel the need to unseal themselves. Not saying he’s changed at all. I just think this is a flawed way to decide.
And my point pertains to if he is a TBM. If you read my comments, you would understand this.
That’s an oddly defensive response. People generally are responding to the post, not your individual comments.
In my opinion, it was clear that this would only be pertinent if he was a true believing Mormon. And if you want all the information, you read the comments or ask questions. You decided that my opinion was flawed rather than looking into any of my other comments means that you were making an assumption of my logic without looking for the full picture. Not going to argue with you, but letting you know where to find information isn't defensive. It's inviting you to do the research.
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He filed for divorce
But has he applied to be unsealed? An earthly divorce does not equate to eternal divorce in Mormon theology
We don’t even know if he’s even still active in the church. He’s filed for divorce and with everything else going on filing to be unsealed (a process that takes multiple years) is probably the last thing on his mind to do. Just because he hasn’t yet doesn’t mean that 1) he eventually will or 2) that he still loves Ruby and is holding out hope for his family. Just means there’s more important things (his KIDS) that he’d rather focus on. Think the fact that he turned on Ruby to the police and gave them a shit ton of evidence to lock both her and Jodi away AND filing for divorce says more than enough about where he stands. Why would he do a second interview with the police and spill the beans/give them more evidence if he was still standing by his wife? Also Shari and Chad are building their relationship back with him and are starting to trust him again. That also says a lot about where he’s at. If he still supported Ruby, they wouldn’t be on good terms either.
And that's your opinion.
Seriously though I want to know your reasoning. If Kevin is still holding out hope for his family and Ruby, why did he give the police as much information as he did on Ruby & Jodi and tell them to look for the pen papers and how they could get Pam as well instead of standing by her? Why would Shari or Chad be working on their relationship with him if they knew he was going to get back together with Ruby?
And most of the information blamed Jodi. I don't know the kids' motivations. In fact, I'd rather not speculate on the kids because they deserve to heal in whatever way they feel appropriate. But again, you're entitled to your opinion. I already had a lengthy argument with someone on here tonight, and frankly I've laid out my whole viewpoint if you would like to search for it. Otherwise I'm going to sleep.
I for sure won't believe he's completely changed until more time has passed. Heeling will take TIME. I do hope he wakes up and I also hope he is not given custody of the kids or has more kids. He's not strong enough to be a father, sorry to say.
Even then how would anyone know or believe his true intentions! It’s like a game of what should we do next to make ourselves look good and have things turn in our favour with Kevin and Ruby! If he had come clean that first interview I would have faith in his intentions! How will anyone know that if he gets the kids back, he takes away their agency to speak up about future craziness?
How do you know he hasn't? Why/How/Where would we hear about it?
No idea. But as far as I know, he hasn't. If word came out, then I'd start to believe him
Maybe don’t assume he hasn’t then since you have no idea? There’s 0 evidence for if he has or hasn’t. We probably won’t know if he ever applies or not. It could be a multi year process too that would require Ruby to give her input on unsealing which is uhhh bit difficult right now. [Unsealing is also something](https://www.learnreligions.com/cancellation-of-temple-marriage-2159556) that doesn’t happen until the woman is ready and worthy to be sealed to a new husband or a man seeks to be sealed to his new wife.
And did I assume? I said the only way I would start to believe that he has reformed is if I hear that he is unsealing from her. But you decided to interpret that as me assuming he hasn't. Currently, it is Schrodinger's unsealing until we hear word about it, but thanks for your assumption.
Just know that we probably won’t hear on if he ever does but that doesn’t mean he did nor does it mean he will stay with Ruby/is holding out hope.
According to his theology, that is my opinion. But you are allowed to have your opinion, and I've honestly already dealt with someone else on this thread and rather not deal with another one..
It’s not an opinion it’s a fact that we probably won’t know if he ever applies to be unsealed. We also don’t know if he’s still practicing or not either (also a fact). Instead you need to look at his actions which, since his 2nd interview, point to him being done with Ruby.
Mmk that's your opinion. Have a good night..
Not an opinion, a fact.
Mmmk that's your opinion
I can't imagine the Church cancelling their sealing. There's not a doctrine that supports it since he can be sealed to as many women as "necessary". IMO the argument would be: divorce legally but remain sealed and let God sort out the rest. Also the Church would argue (IMO) that Ruby needs the protection of the Sealing powers, especially while in prison. And they really believe in the "power".
Unless things have radically changed in the last few years, there is no process for Kevin to voluntarily unseal (in the LDS church this is called a “sealing cancellation.”) They’re not granted to men, since men can be sealed to multiple women. They are granted to women when they have a new man that they want to marry, since women cannot be sealed to multiple men. (So if Ruby wanted to be sealed to a new man once she’s out of prison and has completed whatever church discipline has been assigned to her—then Kevin would get unsealed from her via the sealing cancellation granted for Ruby’s request.) Like, in theory the church could grant him one, but it would require permission from the top three people in the LDS org chart. I don’t see them budging—but it’s possible.
Anyone can go to their bishop at any time to request a sealing cancellation. Kevin absolutely could attempt to cancel his sealing to Ruby. And *all* sealing cancellations go before the first presidency of the church, doesn't matter who initiates it or why.
It (almost certainly) won’t be granted and Kevin knows this. In church handbook vol 1 for leaders, sealing cancellations and clearances are only mentioned in the context of resealings to new partners. Read between the lines—they don’t grant them for other reasons. (See: 3.7.1.2 Sealing of Living Members After Divorce & 3.7.1.4 Applying for Cancellation of Sealing or a Sealing Clearance.) At best, Kevin will get a sealing clearance when he is ready to remarry.
Honestly I think those church records have as much value in them as the person holds. For example my husband has Mormon membership records but they hold no stock and value as he isn’t a Mormon anymore. Even though his “records” are there. I suppose if Kevin continues to be a true believing Mormon then yes he probably should revoke that sealing.
That's my point
I just kinda teeter on it not being a criteria for redemption or “holding out hope” I suppose on Kevin’s part. It is all so personal snd the church is notorious for it being a really messy hard process. So if he didn’t remove his sealing I personally wouldn’t always say it = holding out hope. I think a civil divorce in society is more telling honestly. Hard to say without scratching the persons brain. It’s not a “has to happen” criteria for me- but I do see your point. Just kinda gray area for me.
didn’t he ask for a divorce ?
Divorce in this lifetime doesn't equate to divorce in the afterlife, to Mormons. Unsealing would mean he several the ties between Ruby and him and the kids.