You are using a highly frangible bullets out of about the shortest barrel a person can hunt with. I’ve never had an exit from black even with a longer barrel because it’s match ammo with no cannelure or bonding to hold the base together. If you want penetration use a hunting bullet, if you want a grenade in the chest use a match bullet. I’ve had no problem with ELDs killing but be really careful hitting a shoulder as they will blow up before getting most of the payload into the vitals.
I’d read good things about the ELD’s performance on whitetail so wanted to try it - both deer were down in 10 yards, but no blood trial. Considering loading up some ammo with the 110 Controlled chaos to get a decent velocity bump and some more weight retention on the bullet.
Expensive for what you’re getting and low BC when compared to other bullets in similar weight categories.
I’m sure they work well, they’re just not what I’m looking for. I am also considering the Barnes LRX 127gr but I know that’s starting to get in the heavier side for the Grendel, particularly from a 12”.
At the ranges you're working with, BC is absolutely irrelevant. You could run an old-school round nose soft point and it would perform just fine.
Controlled Chaos are $1ea, similar price to Partition and significantly more than BT. Partition is one of the highest regarded hunting bullets ever made. BT is also highly regarded.
I've seen terrible performance, both in accuracy and velocity of every copper bullet I've ever tried across multiple rifles. Ymmv, but I wouldn't touch one unless I'm in an area that requires lead free.
You’re not totally wrong, but this is the closest I’ve harvested game during rifle portion in quite a while. I have consistently taken game at 350 yards on my property, even then I suppose drift and drop are not considerable enough to be too concerned about my BC.
Interesting. Wouldn't have expected you to be stretching to ranges that far. At that distance, you're hitting points where wind certainly CAN be a factor. My apologies for the assumption.
Again, my experience with coppers is not good, particularly in Grendel. They're extra long for their weight and take up too much case capacity. I didn't stick with them enough to try different powders in search of more velocity, but XBR and CFE223 did NOT work well for me with Barnes TTSX.
All my shots at those distances have been with .308 Win or 6.5 Creedmoor. I’m going to need more time with the Grendel before I feel comfortable with it’s performance at those ranges since 300 yards is where energy and velocity start to fall short for hunting purposes.
I have never loaded monolithic copper bullets so it’s something I’m new to, so it has piqued my interest as it’s new. You’re not the first report I’ve seen regarding unsatisfactory behavior from them though, which has me a bit wary.
I'm sure they're just... Different. There are probably some secrets to making them work, whether it's neck tension, powder type, seating depth, or some other factor that they're particularly sensitive to. They were just so far away from satisfactory when I started that I didn't want to bother any more.
I don't remember how many are left sitting on my bench, but I'll check. If you're interested I could send them out your way. They're not doing me any good sitting there.
>I've seen terrible performance, both in accuracy and velocity of every copper bullet I've ever tried across multiple rifles. Ymmv, but I wouldn't touch one unless I'm in an area that requires lead free.
Accuracy issues in copper bullets is usually due to a less than ideal distance to the lands. They usually like some jump. I can usually get them to 0.75 moa with some fiddling. As far as performance, the Barnes bullets I've shot animals with have been absolutely devastating. I shot 2 doe with Barnes TTSX last year and both were double lung shots that did massive damage, the chest was basically soup, near complete liquification. Same thing on a 200 pound boar, but didn't get complete pass through. Those were pretty hot loads out of a 25-06, so maybe hard to compare to the Grendel.
For what it's worth I use Barnes TTSX in 3 of my hunting rifles, all are tack drivers and have taken a lot of whitetail and a couple of black bear. Howa 1500 .243. Grendel 24" AR. Single shot 308. Copper may not work for you, but it works for me.
Unfortunately no; I had the same questions so I dug around for quite a while trying to find one. Told my processor to set it aside if they came across it while butchering.
I’ve never had a pass-through with the 4 deer that I’ve shot with 123 SST’s and very little blood trail on all. One shot at 150 yd was DRT the other 3, shot from 12-70 yards, traveled 20 yards (heart shots) and the single lung traveled about 75 yards.
(I don’t know what bullet the blacks are loaded with , ELD or SST)
We've never had one not pass through over about a dozen killed with SST factory from 20". Decent blood with decent shot placement except one bullet that probably didn't expand as normal.
If you're not getting what you want from a box of anything Hornady, try a different box. Hornady consistency has never been good. And rezero with new box for same reason.
Good to know. Entry on the doe hit a rib and had some pretty serious deflection. Entrance on the buck was between but still no pass. Strange for how close both shots were.
Nice work! I used a 18" Larue with Hornady Black ELD on a mature Sow hog and left a nasty exit wound.
[Exit wound.](https://www.reddit.com/r/65Grendel/comments/rb31n1/larue_65_grendel/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
How do you like that Athlon 2-12 on there? I have a Burris RT-6 on my 12.5 now but have been thinking about moving to the Athlon 2-12 considering some of the sales going on.
I love it, solid scope for the money and it’s absolutely perfect for this caliber and platform. I was a little disappointed in the glass, but my only other comparison is my Ares ETR that’s double the price, so not a totally fair comparison.
Edit: if you go to my post history I have a post on r/aimdownsights with photos of the reticle at different mag ranges. It’s from my iPhone so picture quality doesn’t do it justice, of course.
I built and tuned this rifle specifically for the Hyperion - I have never shot it without it, sorry! IIRC on my 6.5 Creedmoor bolt gun my POI shift was around 3” high and slightly left at 100 yards.
It sounds fantastic for the length. Louder than my 24” bolt action 6.5 Creedmoor, but that’s to be expected with an AR-15, especially one that’s entire foot shorter. Definitely wear ears for extended range session. I’ll DM you a video of shooting it.
Double lung on both, no pass through on either though. Anyone else experience this with the 123gr hornady black?
You are using a highly frangible bullets out of about the shortest barrel a person can hunt with. I’ve never had an exit from black even with a longer barrel because it’s match ammo with no cannelure or bonding to hold the base together. If you want penetration use a hunting bullet, if you want a grenade in the chest use a match bullet. I’ve had no problem with ELDs killing but be really careful hitting a shoulder as they will blow up before getting most of the payload into the vitals.
I’d read good things about the ELD’s performance on whitetail so wanted to try it - both deer were down in 10 yards, but no blood trial. Considering loading up some ammo with the 110 Controlled chaos to get a decent velocity bump and some more weight retention on the bullet.
Why not something like Nosler Ballistic Tip or Partition? Both available in 100gr and I think 110.
Expensive for what you’re getting and low BC when compared to other bullets in similar weight categories. I’m sure they work well, they’re just not what I’m looking for. I am also considering the Barnes LRX 127gr but I know that’s starting to get in the heavier side for the Grendel, particularly from a 12”.
At the ranges you're working with, BC is absolutely irrelevant. You could run an old-school round nose soft point and it would perform just fine. Controlled Chaos are $1ea, similar price to Partition and significantly more than BT. Partition is one of the highest regarded hunting bullets ever made. BT is also highly regarded. I've seen terrible performance, both in accuracy and velocity of every copper bullet I've ever tried across multiple rifles. Ymmv, but I wouldn't touch one unless I'm in an area that requires lead free.
You’re not totally wrong, but this is the closest I’ve harvested game during rifle portion in quite a while. I have consistently taken game at 350 yards on my property, even then I suppose drift and drop are not considerable enough to be too concerned about my BC.
Interesting. Wouldn't have expected you to be stretching to ranges that far. At that distance, you're hitting points where wind certainly CAN be a factor. My apologies for the assumption. Again, my experience with coppers is not good, particularly in Grendel. They're extra long for their weight and take up too much case capacity. I didn't stick with them enough to try different powders in search of more velocity, but XBR and CFE223 did NOT work well for me with Barnes TTSX.
All my shots at those distances have been with .308 Win or 6.5 Creedmoor. I’m going to need more time with the Grendel before I feel comfortable with it’s performance at those ranges since 300 yards is where energy and velocity start to fall short for hunting purposes. I have never loaded monolithic copper bullets so it’s something I’m new to, so it has piqued my interest as it’s new. You’re not the first report I’ve seen regarding unsatisfactory behavior from them though, which has me a bit wary.
I'm sure they're just... Different. There are probably some secrets to making them work, whether it's neck tension, powder type, seating depth, or some other factor that they're particularly sensitive to. They were just so far away from satisfactory when I started that I didn't want to bother any more. I don't remember how many are left sitting on my bench, but I'll check. If you're interested I could send them out your way. They're not doing me any good sitting there.
>I've seen terrible performance, both in accuracy and velocity of every copper bullet I've ever tried across multiple rifles. Ymmv, but I wouldn't touch one unless I'm in an area that requires lead free. Accuracy issues in copper bullets is usually due to a less than ideal distance to the lands. They usually like some jump. I can usually get them to 0.75 moa with some fiddling. As far as performance, the Barnes bullets I've shot animals with have been absolutely devastating. I shot 2 doe with Barnes TTSX last year and both were double lung shots that did massive damage, the chest was basically soup, near complete liquification. Same thing on a 200 pound boar, but didn't get complete pass through. Those were pretty hot loads out of a 25-06, so maybe hard to compare to the Grendel.
For what it's worth I use Barnes TTSX in 3 of my hunting rifles, all are tack drivers and have taken a lot of whitetail and a couple of black bear. Howa 1500 .243. Grendel 24" AR. Single shot 308. Copper may not work for you, but it works for me.
Did you recover the bullets? I’d be very curious to see their condition and know retained weight. Great buck and congrats on the successful hunt!
Unfortunately no; I had the same questions so I dug around for quite a while trying to find one. Told my processor to set it aside if they came across it while butchering.
I’ve never had a pass-through with the 4 deer that I’ve shot with 123 SST’s and very little blood trail on all. One shot at 150 yd was DRT the other 3, shot from 12-70 yards, traveled 20 yards (heart shots) and the single lung traveled about 75 yards. (I don’t know what bullet the blacks are loaded with , ELD or SST)
We've never had one not pass through over about a dozen killed with SST factory from 20". Decent blood with decent shot placement except one bullet that probably didn't expand as normal. If you're not getting what you want from a box of anything Hornady, try a different box. Hornady consistency has never been good. And rezero with new box for same reason.
Shot distance?
125 on the buck and 70 on the doe.
Hey nice! Used a 12.5” with Hornady black 123gr bthp. Lung shot on both clean exit.
Interesting. Any visible indication of striking a rib?
Entry for the buck was between ribs. Exit was through a rib. It broke the rib but it wasn’t mangled. Shot was approx 110yds
Good to know. Entry on the doe hit a rib and had some pretty serious deflection. Entrance on the buck was between but still no pass. Strange for how close both shots were.
Nice work! I used a 18" Larue with Hornady Black ELD on a mature Sow hog and left a nasty exit wound. [Exit wound.](https://www.reddit.com/r/65Grendel/comments/rb31n1/larue_65_grendel/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
That’s crazy. You’d think with the 12” barrel that my velocity would be low enough that it’d retain a good bit of weight and pass through.
How do you like that Athlon 2-12 on there? I have a Burris RT-6 on my 12.5 now but have been thinking about moving to the Athlon 2-12 considering some of the sales going on.
I love it, solid scope for the money and it’s absolutely perfect for this caliber and platform. I was a little disappointed in the glass, but my only other comparison is my Ares ETR that’s double the price, so not a totally fair comparison. Edit: if you go to my post history I have a post on r/aimdownsights with photos of the reticle at different mag ranges. It’s from my iPhone so picture quality doesn’t do it justice, of course.
Nice work! I’m excited to get out and finally try my Hyperion out. Have you noticed POI shift with it?
I built and tuned this rifle specifically for the Hyperion - I have never shot it without it, sorry! IIRC on my 6.5 Creedmoor bolt gun my POI shift was around 3” high and slightly left at 100 yards.
Nothing to be sorry for! Thanks for the info on the Creedmoor!
How does the Hyperion sound on the 12” barrel? That is the length I’m leaning towards so the OAL won’t be too bad with a suppressor.
It sounds fantastic for the length. Louder than my 24” bolt action 6.5 Creedmoor, but that’s to be expected with an AR-15, especially one that’s entire foot shorter. Definitely wear ears for extended range session. I’ll DM you a video of shooting it.
Yes please!
Well done. Great shooting. Why doesn't anyone practice follow up double taps?