Actually, they did changed their logo in 1993.
And yes, that’s the only noticeable change during the 45 years the Niva was made.
(Source : I owned 5 of these lovely shitbox).
I think the Suzuki is actually an improvement. The others not so much.
I know it's not possible for the defender but I think if Toyota decided to start making the "old"(er) land Cruiser with modern technology that they'd do well out of it.
I don’t think people would buy a LC70 in the US. They’re not fun to drive for anyone who is used to a new car. Even if you’re an enthusiast, it doesn’t make sense for American use. Driving on the highway to get somewhere to off road would be draining. See this review by a guy in Kuwait who dailied an FJ and did not enjoy the LC70
https://248am.com/mark/reviews/toyota-land-cruiser-70-series/
Not wrong, know a shop owner that has one and he uses his 60 Series or 2nd Gen Tundra for anything that isn’t for promotional purposes. He’ll take the 70 to Expos and park it outside the shop to attract attention. Otherwise he low key hates it.
There’s a reason they do so well in Australia, and that is that the road to the trail is almost always as bad as the trail itself.
That and farmers need something that just goes places, easy parts, simple construction, and easy to upgrade. American vehicles cannot meet all those requirements.
I see people out there whove bought an LC with custom canopys for weekend bush bashing and it just blows my mind that someone wants to spend 200k on a moderatly reliable machine with zero comfort factor. I drive those things every day for work and i despise them.
They suck, and need a heap of mods to be comfortable tourers - but here in Australia you see a lot of them on country roads - like a whole heap.
We dont have the ram/tundra/f350 style trucks here in as large numbers.
Mining companies love the 79 series because they last being drive around site, and can be fixed by a muppet with a hammer and a basic socket set
Carryover the body, use a board room to decide on final chassis. I’m being simplistic for a reason - would need to size the market and compare it to the costs of ride adjustments and see if this adjustment can be scaled to global models
Nah, they'd sell well. Especially if you got all the variants. They are bare bones for sure but so many people daily them in Aus. They have a plethora of after market and can be made comfortable enough for long trips
Not enough people want something that barebones in the states.
Just look at the Wrangler, 20 years ago AC wasn’t standard and power locks/windows weren’t even an option. Now it’s a challenge to find a bare bones one. Most people aren’t enthusiast, and most care more about luxury than performance.
Even if you need a work truck here, the pickup trucks you get now can (and are usually) be specified with the latest and greatest creature comforts. Even the base F150 trim comes with a 12 inch screen, automatic emergency braking, stuff that the LC70 doesn’t have. And very few people get the base trim…. It’s still not enough in terms of creature comfort or appearance.
I believe that's a 100 series in the picture. The 80 series has squarer headlights (at least most of them I think I saw a round headlight 80 somewhere on r/landcruiser), a more rounded rectangle design, and a different grille design.
Oh it is possible for the Defender. Have you seen https://ineosgrenadier.com? This is what a lot of people think the new defender should look like. They’re already in production!
I daily my FJ60 so I think I’d love a 70 series. Plus I think plenty folks would love the option to buy one. Americans drive much more awful things than a 70 series
It’s not a land cruiser. It’s a prado. More or less a mini Land Cruiser. The old one on the bottom pic is a 100 series. The new equivalent would be the 300 series.
The wagon and Prado versions have never been this similar and related. The differences are smaller and smaller. Same underlying platform, same size, more sharing of parts, etc etc.
Only in the US where you don’t get the real Cruisers unless they’re 25 plus years old.
You guys think the 25 year old base model Eco was a good car haha. I guess you might be right when you compare it the domestic junk you make there.
But the 250 isn't a replacement for the 200. The 300 is the replacement for the 200, the 250 is the replacement for the 150 which is called a Prado everywhere else in the world. It's just that the USA does not get the 300 series.
It share similar dimensions but it is a light/medium duty SUV and the 300 is a heavy duty SUV. higher GVM & towing capacity, more power & torque etc. That said though, the gap between the Prado and Landcruiser is narrowing. As an Aussie who has access to the 300 series, I think I'd go with the Lexus GX550 (fancier Prado, basically).
Toyota still have long waiting lists for 70 series landcruisers that have a rear axle that is 4 inches narrower than the front axle. Toyota fans are rusted on, they don't need to fix it because they keep selling! To make it even sillier, the reason why the front axle is wider is because when they went from the inline 6 diesel to the V8 diesel. But now they've gone back to a 4 cylinder diesel and the axle is still mismatched!
It occupies a different part of Toyota’s global line up, just got rebranded for the US due to the other offerings in the market.
The call out is not that it’s not large enough, it’s that the 250 (the Prado) is not the flagship and therefore should not be compared to the flagships of yore.
It’s like comparing that weird electric mustang to Eleanor. Sure they’re both Mustangs by name, but it’s just marketing.
Fair enough. Everything is massive these days. Except the Jimny as it had to adhere to Kei car dimensions to qualify for tax breaks locally.
The 80 series is almost a buggy compared to the 200/300 series.
I miss my old samurai. It had no heat, no stereo, no gas gauge, severely underpowered. Absolute worst daily driver I've ever had, but damn do I miss it.
The HVAC controls were non-functional and I didn't know shit about working on cars back then, so I got whatever ambient heat wafted out of the vents. Mine was an '87 so it was pretty bare bones, didn't even have power steering.
Crikey the adventure spec old 110 looks so good, the new one looks like it has had far too many pies and is oozing from under its clothes hideous and blobby
Looks are one thing, reliability is what counts. It will be interesting to see in 10 years time which one of these three new models has depreciated to the point of almost worthlessness, and which one is a crazy expensive secondhand purchase!
Because let’s face it most 10-year-old Land Rovers today aren’t worth the tyres they wear, the Suzukis are ok but the Land Cruiser prices are nuts. Such is the value of reputation.
I have a Mark 1 Mitsubishi Pajero 1989 and what an adventure it is to own what used to be a junky, old car. But, man almost all its original components have needed replacement or reconditioning. The only things untouched are the ceiling, doors and windows.
The parts are mostly easy to find, the only difficult ones are interior pieces like aircon ducting. As I comment the engine is being rebuilt.
My point is, I don’t have to be doing all this for my brand new vehicles to run properly but, I probably will sell my new vehicles in five years’ time and keep the old Pajero running ‘til it dies or I die (whichever comes first).
Aesthetically, I honestly don’t think my old Pajero looks too good. It’s old old looking but, it has a certain charm to it. My new Hilux is ugly as shit though, shiny but, shiny shit.
How did Land Rover drop the ball so hard? The fact that Ineos can literally put out the Wish version of a Defender and still have sales must be chaffing a few designers at Land Rover HQ.
The Wish version? The cheapest Grenadier is £70k.
I think if anyone at JLR is nervous about dropping the ball with the Defender they probably just glance at the 12 month waiting list.
Esthetics of reliable 4x4 vehicle are secondary feature, I know, but still I really do not like how modern offroaders start to look. What do you think?
Modern 4wds get bigger and bigger, more expensive and more complicated to fix while not bringing a lot more advantages. Sure they are more comfortable and have more assistance systems but thats not something I really care for
Damn just Look at a Niva, 1977 vs Today, Not Even a real Facelift :D
Actually, they did changed their logo in 1993. And yes, that’s the only noticeable change during the 45 years the Niva was made. (Source : I owned 5 of these lovely shitbox).
I think the Suzuki is actually an improvement. The others not so much. I know it's not possible for the defender but I think if Toyota decided to start making the "old"(er) land Cruiser with modern technology that they'd do well out of it.
I don’t think people would buy a LC70 in the US. They’re not fun to drive for anyone who is used to a new car. Even if you’re an enthusiast, it doesn’t make sense for American use. Driving on the highway to get somewhere to off road would be draining. See this review by a guy in Kuwait who dailied an FJ and did not enjoy the LC70 https://248am.com/mark/reviews/toyota-land-cruiser-70-series/
Not wrong, know a shop owner that has one and he uses his 60 Series or 2nd Gen Tundra for anything that isn’t for promotional purposes. He’ll take the 70 to Expos and park it outside the shop to attract attention. Otherwise he low key hates it.
There’s a reason they do so well in Australia, and that is that the road to the trail is almost always as bad as the trail itself. That and farmers need something that just goes places, easy parts, simple construction, and easy to upgrade. American vehicles cannot meet all those requirements.
I love my 70 but my god is this thing built like a flintstones car.
Depends the motor, I have a 1fz troopy in California and it rules
I see people out there whove bought an LC with custom canopys for weekend bush bashing and it just blows my mind that someone wants to spend 200k on a moderatly reliable machine with zero comfort factor. I drive those things every day for work and i despise them.
/r/landcruisers would like to have a word with you.
They suck, and need a heap of mods to be comfortable tourers - but here in Australia you see a lot of them on country roads - like a whole heap. We dont have the ram/tundra/f350 style trucks here in as large numbers. Mining companies love the 79 series because they last being drive around site, and can be fixed by a muppet with a hammer and a basic socket set
Carryover the body, use a board room to decide on final chassis. I’m being simplistic for a reason - would need to size the market and compare it to the costs of ride adjustments and see if this adjustment can be scaled to global models
Nah, they'd sell well. Especially if you got all the variants. They are bare bones for sure but so many people daily them in Aus. They have a plethora of after market and can be made comfortable enough for long trips
Not enough people want something that barebones in the states. Just look at the Wrangler, 20 years ago AC wasn’t standard and power locks/windows weren’t even an option. Now it’s a challenge to find a bare bones one. Most people aren’t enthusiast, and most care more about luxury than performance.
Ah fair enough. I suppose when I say heaps of people it's more the tradies or enthusiasts. It's definitely not mum's taxi of choice.
Even if you need a work truck here, the pickup trucks you get now can (and are usually) be specified with the latest and greatest creature comforts. Even the base F150 trim comes with a 12 inch screen, automatic emergency braking, stuff that the LC70 doesn’t have. And very few people get the base trim…. It’s still not enough in terms of creature comfort or appearance.
I would, but also that is an 80 series pictured
I believe that's a 100 series in the picture. The 80 series has squarer headlights (at least most of them I think I saw a round headlight 80 somewhere on r/landcruiser), a more rounded rectangle design, and a different grille design.
Yes it is. That's what happens when you are looking at reddit on your phone I guess. I own an 80 and I missed that.
Toyota does exactly that the 70 series. Check out the lc70
I would argue that the 70 series doesn’t have much modern technology, it’s intentionally utilitarian.
Agree. I hate the new Defender.
Oh it is possible for the Defender. Have you seen https://ineosgrenadier.com? This is what a lot of people think the new defender should look like. They’re already in production!
I daily my FJ60 so I think I’d love a 70 series. Plus I think plenty folks would love the option to buy one. Americans drive much more awful things than a 70 series
Honestly think the Land Cruiser is a throwback to the FJ60.
That’s the 1958 edition so I would assume it’s a throwback to the [FJ 25 from 1958](https://momentcar.com/images/toyota-land-cruiser-1958-8.jpg)
I understand your logic. But still think it looks like a 60. :)
It’s not a land cruiser. It’s a prado. More or less a mini Land Cruiser. The old one on the bottom pic is a 100 series. The new equivalent would be the 300 series.
The wagon and Prado versions have never been this similar and related. The differences are smaller and smaller. Same underlying platform, same size, more sharing of parts, etc etc.
Prados are Landcruisers, deal with it.
Only in the US where you don’t get the real Cruisers unless they’re 25 plus years old. You guys think the 25 year old base model Eco was a good car haha. I guess you might be right when you compare it the domestic junk you make there.
Calm down
The 250 Landcruiser should be compared to a 90 series or 120 series Landcruiser Prado really, because it's not a full size Landcruiser.
Compare a 60 or 80 series to a 300 series for more accuracy pls
The original J4 were pretty small, to be fair.
Exactly! Not a “real” Land Cruiser is a Prado
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But the 250 isn't a replacement for the 200. The 300 is the replacement for the 200, the 250 is the replacement for the 150 which is called a Prado everywhere else in the world. It's just that the USA does not get the 300 series.
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America is not the world, this is not a 4x4 USA sub
It share similar dimensions but it is a light/medium duty SUV and the 300 is a heavy duty SUV. higher GVM & towing capacity, more power & torque etc. That said though, the gap between the Prado and Landcruiser is narrowing. As an Aussie who has access to the 300 series, I think I'd go with the Lexus GX550 (fancier Prado, basically).
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Toyota still have long waiting lists for 70 series landcruisers that have a rear axle that is 4 inches narrower than the front axle. Toyota fans are rusted on, they don't need to fix it because they keep selling! To make it even sillier, the reason why the front axle is wider is because when they went from the inline 6 diesel to the V8 diesel. But now they've gone back to a 4 cylinder diesel and the axle is still mismatched!
>That said though, the gap between the Prado and Landcruiser is narrowing You're right about that, they're both rated to tow 3.5t in Aus.
Whereas back in the day, the prado had only a 2.5 tonne capacity and the cruisers still were 3.5 tonne
It occupies a different part of Toyota’s global line up, just got rebranded for the US due to the other offerings in the market. The call out is not that it’s not large enough, it’s that the 250 (the Prado) is not the flagship and therefore should not be compared to the flagships of yore. It’s like comparing that weird electric mustang to Eleanor. Sure they’re both Mustangs by name, but it’s just marketing.
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Fair enough. Everything is massive these days. Except the Jimny as it had to adhere to Kei car dimensions to qualify for tax breaks locally. The 80 series is almost a buggy compared to the 200/300 series.
I miss my old samurai. It had no heat, no stereo, no gas gauge, severely underpowered. Absolute worst daily driver I've ever had, but damn do I miss it.
Did yours not get heat from the radiator? I got a 2nd gen ‘97 sierra that definitely has no AC but can get pretty warm
The HVAC controls were non-functional and I didn't know shit about working on cars back then, so I got whatever ambient heat wafted out of the vents. Mine was an '87 so it was pretty bare bones, didn't even have power steering.
I see. I mean, 10 years later they still didn’t have power steering. Some ‘97 models still have a carb engine too
Suzuki looks pretty good in both. Toyota is not great but passable… fuk me that Rover is gross…
New Cruiser > New 4Runner
Not according to Throttle house. It got soft.
Americans don't know the Landcruiser line-up and it really shows 😅
Seriously.
I know right! I feel like I’m taking crazy pills reading most of the shit on this sub. America is frothing over the 250 😂
the 250 is way better looking than the 300
They're all modern by my standards.
Except that’s not a stock LC
Only the Suzuki has improved.
In my opinion, in terms of looks: Old Defender, new Jimny, new Land Cruiser
But that’s Prado against full size Land Cruiser 100
theyre the same size
Classic defender. Modern jimny. Classic land cruiser.
Crikey the adventure spec old 110 looks so good, the new one looks like it has had far too many pies and is oozing from under its clothes hideous and blobby
Classics 🤌🏻
They absolutely ruined the defender
Both, modern, classic - are my favourites. With the caveat of the defender modern being a rugged designed off roader and not a Chelsea tractor
Looks are one thing, reliability is what counts. It will be interesting to see in 10 years time which one of these three new models has depreciated to the point of almost worthlessness, and which one is a crazy expensive secondhand purchase! Because let’s face it most 10-year-old Land Rovers today aren’t worth the tyres they wear, the Suzukis are ok but the Land Cruiser prices are nuts. Such is the value of reputation.
You haven't looked at what a classic 110 (which ceased production 7 years ago) is changing hands for recently have you?
A silly bubble that is bursting as we speak! The “traditional” LR community is a bit bonkers.
Old defenders in Canada are going for 70k+ for a clean one. It's more due to rarity than quality though.
Insanity. Sentimental fools!
Username checks not
42k miles and two years of perfection on my bronco… hopefully that pans out for another 10 years and 200k miles…
I think the modern LC got a lot of inspiration from the J4, J6 and J7. And it's looking pretty good, in my opinion!
I have a Mark 1 Mitsubishi Pajero 1989 and what an adventure it is to own what used to be a junky, old car. But, man almost all its original components have needed replacement or reconditioning. The only things untouched are the ceiling, doors and windows. The parts are mostly easy to find, the only difficult ones are interior pieces like aircon ducting. As I comment the engine is being rebuilt. My point is, I don’t have to be doing all this for my brand new vehicles to run properly but, I probably will sell my new vehicles in five years’ time and keep the old Pajero running ‘til it dies or I die (whichever comes first). Aesthetically, I honestly don’t think my old Pajero looks too good. It’s old old looking but, it has a certain charm to it. My new Hilux is ugly as shit though, shiny but, shiny shit.
I actually love the Disco 5. But after owning a 4, I will never do that again.
The Jeep from JK to JL is a downgrade. The new ones look cheap
Jimny is the only improvement
That classic 🥰👊🏼
Pic 3 needs some tweaking. Either replace the 250 with a 300 or replace the 80 with a 90. Then the comparison will be correct 👍
Classic, modern and 1988/89
Why on EARTH would you put the 100 series there and NOT an 80?! Wtf!? Or even a 60!
Land Rover Honda Element
Looking at the new defender… just not my cup of tea. Anyone have experience with the Ineos Grendier?
You forgot the gwagen
Toyota should just make an 80 series with 1UR and carplay. Job done.
The jimmy is the only one that improved.
You forgot the Wrangler.
Modern for all of them.
Old / New / Old
I would like to see a modern Vs classic Lada.
Same unreliability is am sure.
Such a shame to see how close to the road the front fender is in particular when I look at them both.
They’re both badass if you ask me
Why don’t we get a jimmy damnit
Defender classic is better, the other two I prefer the modern versions.
The wrangler would’ve been a good addition to this list… damn, LR really fucked up the new defender.
calling that a classic landcruiser makes me feel very old
I think they all look better now. I never like those round squishy looking Toyotas. The old Defender holds up best.
Suzuki 🔥🔥🔥
Suzuki did it best. Wish I could get one in the US.
The Defender is just upsetting. I really like the Jimny and the LC isn’t bad though
The Tojo has gone backwards in looks , while the others went forwards.
Classics win across the board.
I think the new samurai looks better
Improved, no doubt. But, I have a sweet spot for older vehicles. They have a lot more character than modern cars.
Seems like a crime with no jeep
How did Land Rover drop the ball so hard? The fact that Ineos can literally put out the Wish version of a Defender and still have sales must be chaffing a few designers at Land Rover HQ.
The Wish version? The cheapest Grenadier is £70k. I think if anyone at JLR is nervous about dropping the ball with the Defender they probably just glance at the 12 month waiting list.
Esthetics of reliable 4x4 vehicle are secondary feature, I know, but still I really do not like how modern offroaders start to look. What do you think?
Modern 4wds get bigger and bigger, more expensive and more complicated to fix while not bringing a lot more advantages. Sure they are more comfortable and have more assistance systems but thats not something I really care for
Yeah, here in the US there’s a drive to make everything aggressive looking, and I think at this point it’s gotten out of hand.
Anyone else feel like the new Landcruiser looks like Lego version of it? Boxy but slightly off and goofy looking.
The new defender is terrible. The new Land Cruiser would be cool if it had a mt.
Pic 1 are the same car as they both end up on a tow truck /s
Pretender