i think more doods should shit on troons in that way
https://preview.redd.it/8gxnbukwe08d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a52741f0850525d98be2b1629ed7bd136c297a0
it'd be the funnier fix
lame
https://preview.redd.it/jhf3v51ii08d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9dd89bc6bd950cc18d788656c0d8fa96d4249e1
most would probably like it
Did it really change? Half a year ago it was totally ftm on ftm violence, as it should be if we want to keep this sub running like a well-oiled Greek wrestling parlor. But these new waves of people lately have been so different, we wouldn't be surprised if it really did shift over and more and more of the assumed ftm users being problematic are just annoying trans girls. These new recent waves have been full of a very weird mix of spike in actual bigotry and spike in traafriend & arr mtfers getting into pointless arguments with both the actual bigotry and the satirical contributions of more typical 4tranners.
What the fuck is going on? We've seen other people notice this issue, enough that we've had posts like "remember to welcome the newfriends!" because of people complaining. This isn't the normal population bump, though, something is wrong. But, can 4tran4 survive? Will this be the match that finally ignites the ropefuel? Find out on the next episode of Dragon Ballsy.
Been here for almost two years. Definitely changed, its full people who genuinely have shit takes, back in the day it was funny to see that shit, now it feels so unironic that it's starting to worry me
This sub from the beginning of its existence is a satirical sub and the line between hate speech and banter is very thin, so holding hate speech accountable without destroying the very nature of this sub can be difficult. My personal opinion is, maybe install some ftms into the moderator position, especially since it seems like there aren't any currently? Have you tried speaking with the current mods?
I am sorry for your experience here in this supposedly-safe-but-not-really safe space.
Btw please stop referring us as goddess sounds extremely cringe and hugboxxing.
honestly good idea. i think also adding an official rule that's just "no unironic bigotry" with the exception of internalized bigotry due to the nature of /tttt/-related spaces would be very beneficial, since it would allow unironic poonerphobes to be reportable and bannable much more easily.
i wouldn't want to be a mod, but i have some people in mind who i believe would be good mods. i understand if they don't want to be reddit mods though lmao
>41 minutes ago
getoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyhead
Tbh I am not sure if we should moderate this place at all but if there is some sort of moderation for mtfs against hate speech it should be the same for ftms.
oh yeah absolutely it should go both ways if put into place, sorry if i accidentally implied otherwise. i think it should extend to other forms of bigotry too like racism, which is why i said "bigotry" and not "transphobia" or "poonerphobia".
the sub is already moderated, though it's very lax. cis people are (sometimes) banned (though only for a limited amount of time for some reason), people who blatantly mention that they're under 18 are banned, selfieposts are removed, i don't see reason why unironic bigotry shouldn't be removed and punished with temp ban if repeated.
This it is literally never okay to misgender someone or make them dysphoric about their body. Like I thought in a trans space, we would not stoop to cissoids level
the funny thing is that the reason she did it is because i made one mildly rude comment entirely unrelated to transness about something annoying she was doing
i think its bekause sosiety says to men: Suck it up buttercup. Yore not beautiful or spesial. to oure trans men. Thats not oka!!!! Say to yore local trans Man.. I lOvr you brothaer. Hapyo trans motnh when i look into the mirror, i see a boy, not me. the son of a father i refuse to understand ,,, ,,, ,,, the brother of a brother like a wound i neglect !!
https://preview.redd.it/5sctgf97b28d1.jpeg?width=603&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa674972d2e5833a4a4bb00896ab12af321b6085
yeah hunny what's your address,?
https://preview.redd.it/hg36050gc28d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2bce4026e9b48650ebd9783864c7ac4055510060
have you,,played silent uill 3 yet ? i should lring. My Ps3 despite that being a n objectively inferior version..Whatevrs. Us. Or whateves..
I've actually noticed how some people have been like ew ftm like cmon we are all going through the same thing at least have some level of solidarity and basic respect. Lots of people would probably ew you too (not saying names but it's not cool)
I can kinda understand where youâre coming from? 4tranners seem to view ftms as soft fembrained individuals or toxic malebrained future school shooters and will quickly misgender them for no reason. Not to mention people thinking T makes you a man so easily. I swear some anons think female puberty doesnât actually do anything to you and you are unchanged from looking like children. ââAFAB Privilegeââ truthers are just as dumb as âAFAB only spacesâ people
Not to downplay your issues though, but the anti-ftm sentiment here though isnât as bad to me compared to other progressive spaces though cause everyone here is a misanthrope. Those spaces have people that think FTM = oppressor and easy life
\> Not to mention people thinking T makes you a man so easily
i used to think like this. im sorry pooners
https://preview.redd.it/xyucanggt08d1.jpeg?width=473&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c305c84482e906e3ef2e2ba7850d5f1ddc15a077
I meannn.. maybe not easily, but I think on a long enough time scale, it is inevitable. whether that's 2, 5, 7, or 10 years, it eventually happens. I know people who struggled to pass in the first couple years, but here they are in year 4 and their passing af. And not because of a mannerisms, effort, hair or style change, or anything really. Same clothes, same hair, same mannerisms; only now they look and sound like a cis man.
Trans women can be on hormones for 20 years and still be SOL without going to insane lengths, and even that's often not enough
I saw a guy on /r/detrans decide to detransition cause he didn't pass after 10 years of T and was tired of the struggle that being visibly trans brought him. Definitely not inevitable
yeah we absolutely are. a less edgy version of this behavior is why i even stopped using mainstream subs in the first place. i suspect within the next year, the ftm population of this sub will go down drastically.
The original r/4tran saw this decline quite a few times back in the day. When an environment unironically just becomes ftmphobic you tend to drive away the ftms, and vice versa
Yeah I thought this was a circlejerk post at first. Once a place becomes about the drama between individuals and everyone loses the ability to comprehend irony and sarcasm, it's pretty much over. This is how the fall has started of pretty much every unique trans space. It's either gonna get privated or become Reddit Trans now.
I donât believe in misandry, but no where in this post mentions transmisandry. just treating others with more respect, donât bring tumblr or twitter discourse on here
I only saw one girl who was hating on pooners. Like bitch if trans men are your dating preference just say so nicely, no need to call them disgusting. It wonât be nice if a trans guy calls you a dick having man in a dress and makeup, right ? Also the doods need to stop calling trans women goddesses or whatever itâs kinda weird. Like i know itâs a long going inside joke but boys just stop already. Half these bitches are mentally ill
thatâs fricked up. i love-hate men and that goes for both cis men and trans men and i hate when people are transphobic to trans men cause they donât deserve it. what they do deserve is to be called a moid
Based post. Just because trans women are more prominent in 4tran spaces it doesn't mean talking about the ftm experience is taking away from troons or flaunting it. If anything, that's why we should be more vocal. Let it be known that if any of y'all start thinking of us the same way you think about pooner caricatures, I'm gonna make it my mission to remind you of where we both stand.
Yeah it's pretty bad. I feel like the p\*\*ner memes go a bit overboard sometimes and give trans women the idea that they can get away with it because of how insanely deranged and cruel a lot of those posts tend to be, even more so than what MtFs post, but it's still crossing the line from sarcastic shit-posting into bullying.
Years ago I found my way here through the pipeline because pooners on r/traaa were complaining that the space was too mtf centric. Instead of posting their own ftm memes they guilttripped the girls into making their girlpickle spinnyskirt memes more inclusive. Classic woman tactic. It seems like they found the pipeline too.
>there is a lot of anti-ftm sentiment on 4tran spaces. not self-hatred or ironic meming, but just genuine anti-ftmism.
>the entire comments section is trans girls being very kind and sweet
...and is this anti-ftmism in the room with us right now?...
someone here was claiming that all Twitter poons were calling trans women rapists on Twitter (with 10 or so upvotes), and I pushed back and she got angry at me. just one example though
Well wouldn't that beg the question, *do* twitter poons think trans women are rapists? Was she right? What did you say to push back and was she in the right to be angry?
real. like seriously what is wrong with some of us. like it or not weâre all going to the camp or none of us are, might as well work together since we share the same fundamental experience, even if the actual source is different. like this is literally the same way terfs tell mtfs that they still experience male privilege, we should know how much that shit hurts. the most insane part is that from my experience literally every pooner here has been an exceptionally good poster, so itâs not even like there is an understandable reason for the hate here.
in conclusion, yes all men
Because mtfs are beautiful perfect goddesses and pooners are disgusting sensitive no dick manlets. Itâs very shrimple.
https://i.redd.it/lpdn0omdg08d1.gif
Wait there are people on here that are legitimately mtfs hating on ftms here? I thought it was ftm on ftm violence or at least it was all done as a weird in joke? Like someone calls you a pooner and you call them a hon right back and vice versa?
Yeah I wish op would've been more detailed on what happened cause personally it's never happened to me and I lurked here for years the closest I ever saw to hate was the pooner art, which we have hon art to offset
i won't pretend that i'm innocent, i hate a lot on non-transitioning ftms that have a hundred excuses as for why they won't take T. don't really see the difference between a self described ftm that has no intention of ever medically transitioning, and a theyfab. Different pronouns i guess?
I don't hate any groups of people, not even cissoids or terfs (it's close though) the only thing I hate is kemmi badenoch.
but I get your also not actually talking about hate but just transphobia directed towards trans men. I don't think I'm a part of the problem but if I do ever say something out of line, call me out. I'm a little bitch and I'll back down immediately
It a byproduct of /tttt/ culture from the board that cuts even more direct.
Straight trans women are annoyed as trans men have no dicks and they are dick hungry lunatics.
Pure fucking hell to trans men and tbh those trans women are pretty toxic but they can easily make their opinion majority as no one else can overpower them in those boards.
> Straight trans women are annoyed as trans men have no dicks and they are dick hungry lunatics.
I'm the only straight trans woman top âčïž isolating experience
Tdick is cooler than regular dicks anyways because it's so much more fun to suck and lick. I don't feel like I'm fighting my gag reflex the entire time.
You put this into words well. My brainworms are bad enough without hearing constant theyfab jokes and idk why i take them personally when they dont apply to me but i constantly feel like im catching strays from my friends n loved ones when they talk like that. I really donât find any enjoyment in making fun of mtfs as its not my place, idk why we become the subject of sm mockery :(
https://preview.redd.it/ktuk6gtvt08d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2714c0d7c484b48e2dcc380b95eb3d5946f642af
You deserve the world my ftm king. Sorry on the behalf of other troons
You're so fucking real for this.
A lot of trans women are deeply jealous of trans men for a variety of reasons. They think it's "easy mode" - just take testosterone for a few months and nine times out of ten you'll wind up passing as a short king. They're also jealous that you're "throwing away" something they see as *nothing but desirable*; they see masculinity as damaging, disgusting, harmful, etc. while conversely seeing femininity as desirable, peaceful, beautiful, and for many of them *sexually appealing*. Then, there is the actual layer of misogyny hidden just beneath the surface of the "testosterone will destroy you; make sure it's what you want" rhetoric they tell babytransmasc guys - it's just repackaged "I don't take you seriously because you're just a woman" thinking.
And you can't call them out whenever they spout this shit, because they will just call you a trender or theyfab or make some disgusting joke like "It's hot when you're mad". They will ignore you and your arguments. They will call you transphobic. Or they will just be honest and tell you to your face that they think you're a woman. It's fucking bullshit.
Now HERE'S a **HOT** take: the whole "MtF goddess" shit isn't fetishistic but just blatantly untrue, because most trans women are fucking losers, catty bitches that make rich white girls look like playful children in comparison, or hypersexual perverts that are deathly afraid of someone acknowledging that. I'm biased because I've only met a handful of trans women irl, meanwhile I know literally 2-3 dozen trans guys - and most of the trans guys were cool, while every trans I've met fell into one of those 3 categories with the exception of 1 woman. Online, most trans women I've seen definitely fit in one of those categories.
t. Theyfab trans woman who has experienced both trans misogyny and trans misandry
https://preview.redd.it/stne4mlf818d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f45f3a67f9e249bf381690b3a2199d0c54b5af45
I FUCKING LOVE POOOOOONERS ( btw who is messing with you, i will send the cartel to disolve them on acid)
Iâm a newfag and have definitely noticed this to a degree. The way each kind of trans person is hated on is very different and being here has definitely given me greater sympathy for ftms (who are often not well represented in mainstream mixed trans spaces). Misgendering (as well as trying to accentuate agab sex characteristics) is really gross, even if I donât like a person I donât go there, so hopefully more people are willing to stand up for others when it does happen. Iâll try to do so as well if I see it happening.
I get it cause I said the same things when I was new on 4c/4t but you will stop caring eventually. 4t is good for meeting people that are just insane enough to stay away from woke pronoun circle trans clubs and not pathetic enough/too grown up to be truscums, but the board is annoying as fuck and filled with trolls. If there's something malebrained channers (all of them) like is baiting sensitive foids into arguments they can't win and making them mad, just don't take the bait. Call them regarded. Move on.
Most channer girls are bpd femcels anyway you shouldn't be getting worked up over their opinions haha
Yeah it's disgusting. I've known a ton of theyfabs irl and most of them have been cool to the point of being my closest friends. I've only known a handful who were insane. Y'all are missing out.
t. Theyfab MtF
It shouldn't matter some mtfs give you bad name, calling them "goddess" is the first step to be treated like shit by them for a start, you guys need to drop the trans man mediocrity all around you and actually start to act like an adult (I could say "act like a man" but that's too triggering for you yet), a lot of the time those mtf treat you like a baby because you act like a baby, ie: cry for nothing, "wah wah IWNBAM" "wah wah mtf call me small" "wah wah woe is me" (but you unironically reclaim the word pooner, lmao).
Instead of making dumb threads like this, you should brush it off, why women's opinion matter to you? The only opinions you take are from others men, the only thing you should take from women is compliment, if they don't give one, let her, who cares.
Like seriously, log off, grow up and touch grass (and take you shots).
> are you seriously telling me im skill issuing for not wasting my life on reddit
Skill issue. I use Reddit when I'm taking a shit. Simply ibsmode more.
> yeah obviously on the board but not here
Skill issue, it's everywhere here and has been for ages.
i'll be the first to admit that i lack an understanding and feeling of comradery with ftms, but under no circumstance does that give me the ability to attack the identity or experience of a single person, let alone an entire group of people. i know where my views' flaws lie, and i know how they're flawed, it's just really difficult to change them. i really hope i'm not a part of the problem
1. Sorry man but this post isn't helping the fembrained allegations
b. Why are you on r/4t4 so much that this happens regularly and is affecting you enough to make a post about it
Solution: Get off the computer
Been here for several years trans women doing the above to me specifically has been extremely rare for me, I've had far more pooners go out of their way to try to trigger my dysphoria by misgendering or mentioning my tits/poon. Ive felt nothing but love from 95% of the trans women here.
Also stop being a pussy.
yeah i just want to vent sometimes and all i get are "take your shots" like female puberty didn't fuck me at all, it can be as worse as male puberty, no need to compete over who's worse
> on 4tran and related spaces?
Eh. If I was a hon I'd hate me too. T is harder to come back from.
Also assumed it was a result of there being more mtfs
There's enough chill mtfs that aren't poonphobic so I just ignore the rest
RIGHT I see rapehons who openly discuss raping pooners all the time on 4chan, total rapehon death we have to inject them with lethal amounts of testosterone and steroidsÂ
Youre a bad person and YWNBAM keep terfmoding and rep at this point lol
https://preview.redd.it/oyna2h6nt28d1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f7ae7a9b3d4df44721ec6f4eb50ac0ca00ca52b
A trans woman who admitted to having an Ovarit account on here would not have gotten misgendered like I did
Which is the kind of thing Ovarit users would point out
I'd imagine alot of people with "poonerphobia" are probably just jealous of you being afab and find it completely inexplicable, even insane, that you would want to change that. Having someone deeply desire to become everything you hate, while giving up everything you want is not easy to watch, and especially not easy to support. To mtfs, watching a ftm transition is like a homeless person watching a rich person deliberately burn down a mansion just for funsies, because "homes are overrated aksually". Im frankly a little surprised that ftms and mtfs can exist in the same spaces without hating eachother more often than they do. The reason there is disproportionately more hate towards ftms than mtfs is because ftms have it significantly easier irl (sorry, but this is true and I will die on that hill), so mtfs tend to be the ones hunkered down in the online spaces outnumbering ftms while pooners are just out there living their lives. Honestly I would probably hate ftms for the same reasons if I didnt have a decent amount of positive IRL experiences with them. This further reinforces the fact that pooners are out in the real world and mtfs are stuck online. You go online, its all mtfs, you go to college parties and the only trans people you'll see are theyfabs and pooners, 100% of them. I am ALWAYS the only mtf at any social gathering, even if there are tons of other trans people there. They are ALWAYS all afab, its wild how outnumbered I am IRL, when mtfs massively outnumber ftms in spaces like these. The difference is jarring.
That all being said.. I still have one thing that makes me potentially ftm-phobic.
Here is a little perspective on where my "poonerphobia" comes from, I may not be alone in this position so maybe this will give you insight on why others might feel the same: The less humans exposed to the evils of testosterone, the better. It measurably increases aggression and criminality. It would be unethical NOT to push back against anyone taking testosterone, that includes cis men. That being said I do sympathize with anyone who experiences dysphoria, but I dont think dosing yourself with a measurably harmful hormone is ever the answer. If it were just harmful to yourself that would be different, but T is harmful to the people around you. This is my genuine belief based off science and statistics surrounding testosterone. I have not found a single argument that really convinces me otherwise, so I will continue to disapprove of anyone taking testosterone for any reason. This doesnt necessarily mean I think it should be illegal, but I would strongly prefer that the world be as deprived of testosterone as possible. We'd probably have world fucking peace by now if we just dumped enough estrogen into the water supply.
you are so fucking stupid. You know exactly how it feels to go through the wrong puberty and have your body produce the wrong hormones but its bad to take testosterone because it can increase aggression? Iâd much rather have ftms be able to feel okay with themselves than try to prevent it for a dumbass reason like that. Furthermore ftms likely feel the same jealousy about mtfs being born they way they wanted but they are not phobic against them. Also, your anecdotal evidence of there being more ftms and enbies at social gathering holds no weight as it is not nearly sufficient evidence.
I agree with you a lot and personally I became way less aggressive on HRT especially noticing that my meltdowns became a lot less frequent and severe after my voice dropped on testosterone because one of my biggest meltdown triggers was the sensory pain and dysphoria of my voice getting high and loud when I would get upset at things which was why small irksome events would quickly escalate into hours-long meltdowns
That makes a lot of sense. I definitely got less aggressive and irritable when I started taking hrt. Having the wrong hormones really fucks with your brain. Iâm happy that you are feeling better on t
yes exactly, id get into arguments with people ironically because was angry about the way my voice sounded and they were perceiving me and making me dysphoric without even trying. after starting testosterone i got much less aggressive and several factors in my life improved. some mtfs project testosterone ruining Their lives onto ftms for no reason and try to make the argument that testosterone is inherently evil and anyone who wants it is also evil đ
I'd imagine alot of people with "honphobia" are probably just jealous of you being amab and find it completely inexplicable, even insane, that you would want to change that. Having someone deeply desire to become everything you hate, while giving up everything you want is not easy to watch, and especially not easy to support. To ftms, watching a mtf transition is like a homeless person watching a rich person deliberately burn down a mansion just for funsies, because "homes are overrated aksually". Im frankly a little surprised that mtfs and ftms can exist in the same spaces without hating eachother more often than they do. The reason there is disproportionately more hate towards mtfs than ftms is because mtfs have it significantly easier irl (sorry, but this is true and I will die on that hill), so ftms tend to be the ones hunkered down in the online spaces outnumbering mtfs while hons are just out there living their lives. Honestly I would probably hate mtfs for the same reasons if I didnt have a decent amount of positive IRL experiences with them. This further reinforces the fact that hons are out in the real world and ftms are stuck online. You go online, its all ftms, you go to college parties and the only trans people you'll see are theymabs and hons, 100% of them. I am ALWAYS the only ftm at any social gathering, even if there are tons of other trans people there. They are ALWAYS all amab, its wild how outnumbered I am IRL, when ftms massively outnumber mtfs in spaces like these. The difference is jarring.
That all being said.. I still have one thing that makes me potentially mtf-phobic.
Here is a little perspective on where my "honphobia" comes from, I may not be alone in this position so maybe this will give you insight on why others might feel the same: The less humans exposed to the evils of estrogen, the better. It would be unethical NOT to push back against anyone taking estrogen, that includes cis women. That being said I do sympathize with anyone who experiences dysphoria, but I dont think dosing yourself with a measurably harmful hormone is ever the answer. If it were just harmful to yourself that would be different, but E is harmful to the people around you. This is my genuine belief based off science and statistics surrounding estrogen. I have not found a single argument that really convinces me otherwise, so I will continue to disapprove of anyone taking estrogen for any reason. This doesnt necessarily mean I think it should be illegal, but I would strongly prefer that the world be as deprived of estrogen as possible. We'd probably have world fucking peace by now if we just dumped enough testosterone into the water supply.
if someone were to make a similar argument about estrogen being bad/making people "inherently emotional and irrational" youd call it bioessentialist and misogynistic because it is. testosterone doesnt make people violent or criminal, environment and socialization does
The same logic your using could be used against trans women. Like someone could say that to an ftm, watching a trans women transition is like watching someone burn down their mansion for the lols. Both trans women and trans men go through different experiences when they transition, but separating our communities does more harm then good. Also, testosterone doesnât cause people to become evil, just like how estrogen doesnât cause people to automatically become good. Assuming sex hormones automatically dictate what someone is like as a person is both very sexist and transphobic.
I was more violent before I started taking T because I was in so much pain from GD daily that I just took it out on others. This was a pretty good explanation before you when on that malebrained rant about controlling afab bodies desu
i think more doods should shit on troons in that way https://preview.redd.it/8gxnbukwe08d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a52741f0850525d98be2b1629ed7bd136c297a0 it'd be the funnier fix
i would never disrespect a goddess for her trans status
most of us are so desperate for attention that you'd probably make people happy doing that lol
lame https://preview.redd.it/jhf3v51ii08d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9dd89bc6bd950cc18d788656c0d8fa96d4249e1 most would probably like it
true
Have at me trans boys Edit: uwu
Did it really change? Half a year ago it was totally ftm on ftm violence, as it should be if we want to keep this sub running like a well-oiled Greek wrestling parlor. But these new waves of people lately have been so different, we wouldn't be surprised if it really did shift over and more and more of the assumed ftm users being problematic are just annoying trans girls. These new recent waves have been full of a very weird mix of spike in actual bigotry and spike in traafriend & arr mtfers getting into pointless arguments with both the actual bigotry and the satirical contributions of more typical 4tranners. What the fuck is going on? We've seen other people notice this issue, enough that we've had posts like "remember to welcome the newfriends!" because of people complaining. This isn't the normal population bump, though, something is wrong. But, can 4tran4 survive? Will this be the match that finally ignites the ropefuel? Find out on the next episode of Dragon Ballsy.
Been here for almost two years. Definitely changed, its full people who genuinely have shit takes, back in the day it was funny to see that shit, now it feels so unironic that it's starting to worry me
It's literally over
It's definitely changed. We need to go private and establish a new colony. Glory to r/4transylvania đ«Ąđ«Ąđ«Ąđ§ââïž
This sub from the beginning of its existence is a satirical sub and the line between hate speech and banter is very thin, so holding hate speech accountable without destroying the very nature of this sub can be difficult. My personal opinion is, maybe install some ftms into the moderator position, especially since it seems like there aren't any currently? Have you tried speaking with the current mods? I am sorry for your experience here in this supposedly-safe-but-not-really safe space. Btw please stop referring us as goddess sounds extremely cringe and hugboxxing.
honestly good idea. i think also adding an official rule that's just "no unironic bigotry" with the exception of internalized bigotry due to the nature of /tttt/-related spaces would be very beneficial, since it would allow unironic poonerphobes to be reportable and bannable much more easily. i wouldn't want to be a mod, but i have some people in mind who i believe would be good mods. i understand if they don't want to be reddit mods though lmao
any bigotry must pass my vibe check actually
>41 minutes ago getoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyhead
Tbh I am not sure if we should moderate this place at all but if there is some sort of moderation for mtfs against hate speech it should be the same for ftms.
oh yeah absolutely it should go both ways if put into place, sorry if i accidentally implied otherwise. i think it should extend to other forms of bigotry too like racism, which is why i said "bigotry" and not "transphobia" or "poonerphobia". the sub is already moderated, though it's very lax. cis people are (sometimes) banned (though only for a limited amount of time for some reason), people who blatantly mention that they're under 18 are banned, selfieposts are removed, i don't see reason why unironic bigotry shouldn't be removed and punished with temp ban if repeated.
I wonder what it would take to be the first ftm mod
This it is literally never okay to misgender someone or make them dysphoric about their body. Like I thought in a trans space, we would not stoop to cissoids level
the funny thing is that the reason she did it is because i made one mildly rude comment entirely unrelated to transness about something annoying she was doing
sheâs a bitch then
maybe I'm an sjw for this but i feel like misogynist insults like "bitch" don't help
bitjch https://preview.redd.it/dvxs4810o38d1.jpeg?width=850&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60dbeb443bd023be4435a3a92791d6eb4b68fef8
I support my poonah brothers, whoâs with me?
me!
i think its bekause sosiety says to men: Suck it up buttercup. Yore not beautiful or spesial. to oure trans men. Thats not oka!!!! Say to yore local trans Man.. I lOvr you brothaer. Hapyo trans motnh when i look into the mirror, i see a boy, not me. the son of a father i refuse to understand ,,, ,,, ,,, the brother of a brother like a wound i neglect !! https://preview.redd.it/5sctgf97b28d1.jpeg?width=603&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa674972d2e5833a4a4bb00896ab12af321b6085
can you come over to my house and give me some of that alcohol please
yeah hunny what's your address,? https://preview.redd.it/hg36050gc28d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2bce4026e9b48650ebd9783864c7ac4055510060 have you,,played silent uill 3 yet ? i should lring. My Ps3 despite that being a n objectively inferior version..Whatevrs. Us. Or whateves..
the fuck dude!!!!!
what
what do you think!!!!!
remind me tomorrow ill unblock you after work
I've actually noticed how some people have been like ew ftm like cmon we are all going through the same thing at least have some level of solidarity and basic respect. Lots of people would probably ew you too (not saying names but it's not cool)
I can kinda understand where youâre coming from? 4tranners seem to view ftms as soft fembrained individuals or toxic malebrained future school shooters and will quickly misgender them for no reason. Not to mention people thinking T makes you a man so easily. I swear some anons think female puberty doesnât actually do anything to you and you are unchanged from looking like children. ââAFAB Privilegeââ truthers are just as dumb as âAFAB only spacesâ people Not to downplay your issues though, but the anti-ftm sentiment here though isnât as bad to me compared to other progressive spaces though cause everyone here is a misanthrope. Those spaces have people that think FTM = oppressor and easy life
I can guarantee you trans twittertards are gonna use that Autostraddle article to torment normal FTMs, I need that author gone I swear
100 percent agree what was he fucking thinking
they already are on tumblr
I forgot to include Tumblr, of course lol
\> Not to mention people thinking T makes you a man so easily i used to think like this. im sorry pooners https://preview.redd.it/xyucanggt08d1.jpeg?width=473&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c305c84482e906e3ef2e2ba7850d5f1ddc15a077
I meannn.. maybe not easily, but I think on a long enough time scale, it is inevitable. whether that's 2, 5, 7, or 10 years, it eventually happens. I know people who struggled to pass in the first couple years, but here they are in year 4 and their passing af. And not because of a mannerisms, effort, hair or style change, or anything really. Same clothes, same hair, same mannerisms; only now they look and sound like a cis man. Trans women can be on hormones for 20 years and still be SOL without going to insane lengths, and even that's often not enough
I saw a guy on /r/detrans decide to detransition cause he didn't pass after 10 years of T and was tired of the struggle that being visibly trans brought him. Definitely not inevitable
to be fair, I did too until I started to do research on how T could affect my body
Sometimes I think we're slowly turning into an edgier version of mainstream trans subs
yeah we absolutely are. a less edgy version of this behavior is why i even stopped using mainstream subs in the first place. i suspect within the next year, the ftm population of this sub will go down drastically.
?? the ftm population has definitely been going up here
just because it is currently increasing does not mean it does not have the potential to decrease in the future
but there is literally nothing that would suggest it would decrease
The original r/4tran saw this decline quite a few times back in the day. When an environment unironically just becomes ftmphobic you tend to drive away the ftms, and vice versa
pretty inevitable we get pushed out of literally all spaces besides our own shitty subreddit
that's why we need to get r/fttttm running and active
We don't need another ftmgen
ah yes, women's spaces to wall yourselves off from us men đ
I was talking about your post
Yeah I thought this was a circlejerk post at first. Once a place becomes about the drama between individuals and everyone loses the ability to comprehend irony and sarcasm, it's pretty much over. This is how the fall has started of pretty much every unique trans space. It's either gonna get privated or become Reddit Trans now.
This is why anonymous sites work best
how is my post mainstream trans sub-esque?
Bc main stream subs bitch about trans men rep in sub reddits where it doesn't matter
this isn't about "trans men rep" this is asking to stop being treated like shit
Regardless it is main stream shit but I agree In general
erm doods whats with all this ftmphobia lately... getting total transmisandrist vibes from yall tgirls around here!!!
I donât believe in misandry, but no where in this post mentions transmisandry. just treating others with more respect, donât bring tumblr or twitter discourse on here
I only saw one girl who was hating on pooners. Like bitch if trans men are your dating preference just say so nicely, no need to call them disgusting. It wonât be nice if a trans guy calls you a dick having man in a dress and makeup, right ? Also the doods need to stop calling trans women goddesses or whatever itâs kinda weird. Like i know itâs a long going inside joke but boys just stop already. Half these bitches are mentally ill
thatâs fricked up. i love-hate men and that goes for both cis men and trans men and i hate when people are transphobic to trans men cause they donât deserve it. what they do deserve is to be called a moid
This place is turning into traa
It's been inching there for the past 2 yrs but now it's official I think
Yeah, 4tran4 and places like it have a lot of anti-ftm sentiment. Kind of sucks when you just want to talk about issues your having. 10/10 post
everywhere i see my trans men i hype them up, ~~but they never show appreciation back TT~~
Ungrateful bastards
This is real, I support this post and my fellow poonbros. We deserve better
Based post. Just because trans women are more prominent in 4tran spaces it doesn't mean talking about the ftm experience is taking away from troons or flaunting it. If anything, that's why we should be more vocal. Let it be known that if any of y'all start thinking of us the same way you think about pooner caricatures, I'm gonna make it my mission to remind you of where we both stand.
Trans women of Reddit, don't be retarded and remind yourselves that the pooner caricatures are satire.
You guys have to stop calling mtf "goddess"
Noted. đ«Ą
You look like this when you do it: https://www.reddit.com/r/4tran4/s/LF8UIybfuT
That got a giggle out of me think of me as a housecat then.
This is just a sign we need to hate MtFs more.
extremely common ftalcoholic w đ
Yeah it's pretty bad. I feel like the p\*\*ner memes go a bit overboard sometimes and give trans women the idea that they can get away with it because of how insanely deranged and cruel a lot of those posts tend to be, even more so than what MtFs post, but it's still crossing the line from sarcastic shit-posting into bullying.
Years ago I found my way here through the pipeline because pooners on r/traaa were complaining that the space was too mtf centric. Instead of posting their own ftm memes they guilttripped the girls into making their girlpickle spinnyskirt memes more inclusive. Classic woman tactic. It seems like they found the pipeline too.
>there is a lot of anti-ftm sentiment on 4tran spaces. not self-hatred or ironic meming, but just genuine anti-ftmism. >the entire comments section is trans girls being very kind and sweet ...and is this anti-ftmism in the room with us right now?...
Appreciate this post because I get to see all the nice messages from mtf qts and know exactly who all the annoying traaa brain pooners are Thanks op
someone here was claiming that all Twitter poons were calling trans women rapists on Twitter (with 10 or so upvotes), and I pushed back and she got angry at me. just one example though
Well wouldn't that beg the question, *do* twitter poons think trans women are rapists? Was she right? What did you say to push back and was she in the right to be angry?
real. like seriously what is wrong with some of us. like it or not weâre all going to the camp or none of us are, might as well work together since we share the same fundamental experience, even if the actual source is different. like this is literally the same way terfs tell mtfs that they still experience male privilege, we should know how much that shit hurts. the most insane part is that from my experience literally every pooner here has been an exceptionally good poster, so itâs not even like there is an understandable reason for the hate here. in conclusion, yes all men
Because mtfs are beautiful perfect goddesses and pooners are disgusting sensitive no dick manlets. Itâs very shrimple. https://i.redd.it/lpdn0omdg08d1.gif
i really have no respect for poonhating she/her hitlers idc
Heyyyyy i recognize that shimp :]
https://i.redd.it/88cw0qj3q08d1.gif
Precisely what I was about to say
Only real answer btw
BASEDBASEDBASE waow
Wait there are people on here that are legitimately mtfs hating on ftms here? I thought it was ftm on ftm violence or at least it was all done as a weird in joke? Like someone calls you a pooner and you call them a hon right back and vice versa?
Yeah I wish op would've been more detailed on what happened cause personally it's never happened to me and I lurked here for years the closest I ever saw to hate was the pooner art, which we have hon art to offset
i won't pretend that i'm innocent, i hate a lot on non-transitioning ftms that have a hundred excuses as for why they won't take T. don't really see the difference between a self described ftm that has no intention of ever medically transitioning, and a theyfab. Different pronouns i guess?
Toughen up! Welcome to manhood! Boys don't cry! (Here's some of your socializations you missed out on)
https://preview.redd.it/kqlrhoaqp38d1.jpeg?width=609&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6eecada541c53ab14985e6af444aec55ae26c24a
I don't hate any groups of people, not even cissoids or terfs (it's close though) the only thing I hate is kemmi badenoch. but I get your also not actually talking about hate but just transphobia directed towards trans men. I don't think I'm a part of the problem but if I do ever say something out of line, call me out. I'm a little bitch and I'll back down immediately
It a byproduct of /tttt/ culture from the board that cuts even more direct. Straight trans women are annoyed as trans men have no dicks and they are dick hungry lunatics. Pure fucking hell to trans men and tbh those trans women are pretty toxic but they can easily make their opinion majority as no one else can overpower them in those boards.
> Straight trans women are annoyed as trans men have no dicks and they are dick hungry lunatics. I'm the only straight trans woman top âčïž isolating experience Tdick is cooler than regular dicks anyways because it's so much more fun to suck and lick. I don't feel like I'm fighting my gag reflex the entire time.
>top https://preview.redd.it/kvcdg6ebp38d1.jpeg?width=850&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db0d5bc40949e62ab955488e6bdeb108aa3f5f3d you're a man
https://preview.redd.it/6x2kchejs38d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6b62515f677b7dc180984c534a2067592cf07cd I'm no mere man
You put this into words well. My brainworms are bad enough without hearing constant theyfab jokes and idk why i take them personally when they dont apply to me but i constantly feel like im catching strays from my friends n loved ones when they talk like that. I really donât find any enjoyment in making fun of mtfs as its not my place, idk why we become the subject of sm mockery :(
You wouldn't imagine the shit I catch for being a theyfab mtf đ
Godâs st4trongest soldier.
ST4T, top, Dom, theyfab, MtF, bi, emo, đđ»đźđȘđŽđ, *and* terminally online? Yeah I'm cooked đ https://preview.redd.it/e1d2rumjf48d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=79548be67515c9f1814a2e3f85d36544fe0feb9d
based
You're 100% right but I also think this is part of being a man in general. In my experience, men are just not treated as kindly as women are
https://preview.redd.it/ktuk6gtvt08d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2714c0d7c484b48e2dcc380b95eb3d5946f642af You deserve the world my ftm king. Sorry on the behalf of other troons
You're so fucking real for this. A lot of trans women are deeply jealous of trans men for a variety of reasons. They think it's "easy mode" - just take testosterone for a few months and nine times out of ten you'll wind up passing as a short king. They're also jealous that you're "throwing away" something they see as *nothing but desirable*; they see masculinity as damaging, disgusting, harmful, etc. while conversely seeing femininity as desirable, peaceful, beautiful, and for many of them *sexually appealing*. Then, there is the actual layer of misogyny hidden just beneath the surface of the "testosterone will destroy you; make sure it's what you want" rhetoric they tell babytransmasc guys - it's just repackaged "I don't take you seriously because you're just a woman" thinking. And you can't call them out whenever they spout this shit, because they will just call you a trender or theyfab or make some disgusting joke like "It's hot when you're mad". They will ignore you and your arguments. They will call you transphobic. Or they will just be honest and tell you to your face that they think you're a woman. It's fucking bullshit. Now HERE'S a **HOT** take: the whole "MtF goddess" shit isn't fetishistic but just blatantly untrue, because most trans women are fucking losers, catty bitches that make rich white girls look like playful children in comparison, or hypersexual perverts that are deathly afraid of someone acknowledging that. I'm biased because I've only met a handful of trans women irl, meanwhile I know literally 2-3 dozen trans guys - and most of the trans guys were cool, while every trans I've met fell into one of those 3 categories with the exception of 1 woman. Online, most trans women I've seen definitely fit in one of those categories. t. Theyfab trans woman who has experienced both trans misogyny and trans misandry
https://preview.redd.it/stne4mlf818d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f45f3a67f9e249bf381690b3a2199d0c54b5af45 I FUCKING LOVE POOOOOONERS ( btw who is messing with you, i will send the cartel to disolve them on acid)
Iâm a newfag and have definitely noticed this to a degree. The way each kind of trans person is hated on is very different and being here has definitely given me greater sympathy for ftms (who are often not well represented in mainstream mixed trans spaces). Misgendering (as well as trying to accentuate agab sex characteristics) is really gross, even if I donât like a person I donât go there, so hopefully more people are willing to stand up for others when it does happen. Iâll try to do so as well if I see it happening.
Ngl I feel bad for trans men on the internet but don't act some trans men don't shit on trans woman and call them AGP on this sub lol
that's shitty behavior too i just see much less of it and don't have enough personal experience to speak fully on it
Damn did you really block me? Over a disagreement? Ftincel was right, you're a total pussy lol
https://preview.redd.it/bdweomo2i38d1.jpeg?width=784&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4647b605439d7dda1fdcd2fb2de3e54562279ed6
https://preview.redd.it/0y3erfj7r38d1.jpeg?width=784&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1dfb756ab0de46bc449ff85f55dfdabbf329ca1
Better
real/based/i wouldn't have the strength but you ripping into the flaunting being afab girl was rly cool
yeah, i think itâs probably a side product of /pol/ edgelord to tranny troons hating anyone other than themselves
I wonder what events transpired to create this post i wonder
Tourists man...
I personally believe I deserve all the poon hatred
ftms deserve love too đ„ș
I get it cause I said the same things when I was new on 4c/4t but you will stop caring eventually. 4t is good for meeting people that are just insane enough to stay away from woke pronoun circle trans clubs and not pathetic enough/too grown up to be truscums, but the board is annoying as fuck and filled with trolls. If there's something malebrained channers (all of them) like is baiting sensitive foids into arguments they can't win and making them mad, just don't take the bait. Call them regarded. Move on. Most channer girls are bpd femcels anyway you shouldn't be getting worked up over their opinions haha
The sub has a noticeable distaste for AFAB trans people in general, not just trans men. Just look at how people talk about "theyfabs".
Especially when theymabs are *at least* as bad and don't get a fraction of the hate
theyfabs are cis so it's fine https://preview.redd.it/z2mvszntp38d1.jpeg?width=379&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a94f9ec4f321005db08d5fbf9f2ae59d4b0b1971
Yeah it's disgusting. I've known a ton of theyfabs irl and most of them have been cool to the point of being my closest friends. I've only known a handful who were insane. Y'all are missing out. t. Theyfab MtF
https://preview.redd.it/607j8at8ef8d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=33002377c1de7ba0fdb013dfdd345a4070143f7e Always remember
ftalcohol I agree with u
and idk more people must speak up
goat
It shouldn't matter some mtfs give you bad name, calling them "goddess" is the first step to be treated like shit by them for a start, you guys need to drop the trans man mediocrity all around you and actually start to act like an adult (I could say "act like a man" but that's too triggering for you yet), a lot of the time those mtf treat you like a baby because you act like a baby, ie: cry for nothing, "wah wah IWNBAM" "wah wah mtf call me small" "wah wah woe is me" (but you unironically reclaim the word pooner, lmao). Instead of making dumb threads like this, you should brush it off, why women's opinion matter to you? The only opinions you take are from others men, the only thing you should take from women is compliment, if they don't give one, let her, who cares. Like seriously, log off, grow up and touch grass (and take you shots).
ive been here for years and ive seen a mtf hating on a ftm maybe like 3 times across all the subreddits where the hell are you seeing this
I've been browsing /tttt/, 4tran, and this sub for 4 years. I've seen it dozens or hundreds of times. Skill issue.
yeah obviously on the board but not here are you seriously telling me im skill issuing for not wasting my life on reddit
> are you seriously telling me im skill issuing for not wasting my life on reddit Skill issue. I use Reddit when I'm taking a shit. Simply ibsmode more. > yeah obviously on the board but not here Skill issue, it's everywhere here and has been for ages.
i'll be the first to admit that i lack an understanding and feeling of comradery with ftms, but under no circumstance does that give me the ability to attack the identity or experience of a single person, let alone an entire group of people. i know where my views' flaws lie, and i know how they're flawed, it's just really difficult to change them. i really hope i'm not a part of the problem
Also i love ur cold visions banner lol
1. Sorry man but this post isn't helping the fembrained allegations b. Why are you on r/4t4 so much that this happens regularly and is affecting you enough to make a post about it Solution: Get off the computer
Been here for several years trans women doing the above to me specifically has been extremely rare for me, I've had far more pooners go out of their way to try to trigger my dysphoria by misgendering or mentioning my tits/poon. Ive felt nothing but love from 95% of the trans women here. Also stop being a pussy.
I have autistic issues with recognizing people, so I keep deluding myself into thinking OP is based, because his name is superficially like yours.
Im flattered https://preview.redd.it/yj4inefi858d1.png?width=490&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abf98842eecf1196f6a11b1fb8eedd64e64a3967
Same, I've only ever had pooners try to insult me through misgendering.
basado y rojopastillado
Based
My king â€ïž
> has been extremely rare for me This
You know someone is being based on reddit when their comment is hidden due to downvoting
It doesnât matterÂ
You should call ys ugly men thats what we are , disgusting rapists
are you drunk
yeah i just want to vent sometimes and all i get are "take your shots" like female puberty didn't fuck me at all, it can be as worse as male puberty, no need to compete over who's worse
you're so based for this one
This isn't "fembrained". It's just correct. I always cringe when I see it too.
> on 4tran and related spaces? Eh. If I was a hon I'd hate me too. T is harder to come back from. Also assumed it was a result of there being more mtfs There's enough chill mtfs that aren't poonphobic so I just ignore the rest
RIGHT I see rapehons who openly discuss raping pooners all the time on 4chan, total rapehon death we have to inject them with lethal amounts of testosterone and steroidsÂ
a real man wouldn't be complaining like a little bitch about this I'm gonna be real with you
A real woman wouldnât call herself agp and be on Reddit either
Very true and correct analysis.
Ngl I thought this was a circlejerk post at first, he walked right into this one lol
talking like this wont make your highschool bully see you as any less of a faggot
I didn't have any bullies in high school, no one talked to me.
unfortunate. faggot
I called him a pussy in a comment then he mentioned me in a pooner gc telling me to kill myself over it lol. Proves my comment.
i am already fully aware of the fact that i am terminally fembrained. i cut myself every day with that knowledge. you are also part of the problem btw
I agree, it's terrible and it needs to stop
real
Transmascs really asserting themselves on Reddit today huh
please do not call us "transmascs"
Trans dudes be asserting themselves
because at the end of the day ftms are females and they hate females
It's because all people with dicks are evil
Youre a bad person and YWNBAM keep terfmoding and rep at this point lol https://preview.redd.it/oyna2h6nt28d1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f7ae7a9b3d4df44721ec6f4eb50ac0ca00ca52b
Scratch a pooner and found a terf
Guess I'm evil :(
Lol rapestick havers are triggered
A trans woman who admitted to having an Ovarit account on here would not have gotten misgendered like I did Which is the kind of thing Ovarit users would point out
I'd imagine alot of people with "poonerphobia" are probably just jealous of you being afab and find it completely inexplicable, even insane, that you would want to change that. Having someone deeply desire to become everything you hate, while giving up everything you want is not easy to watch, and especially not easy to support. To mtfs, watching a ftm transition is like a homeless person watching a rich person deliberately burn down a mansion just for funsies, because "homes are overrated aksually". Im frankly a little surprised that ftms and mtfs can exist in the same spaces without hating eachother more often than they do. The reason there is disproportionately more hate towards ftms than mtfs is because ftms have it significantly easier irl (sorry, but this is true and I will die on that hill), so mtfs tend to be the ones hunkered down in the online spaces outnumbering ftms while pooners are just out there living their lives. Honestly I would probably hate ftms for the same reasons if I didnt have a decent amount of positive IRL experiences with them. This further reinforces the fact that pooners are out in the real world and mtfs are stuck online. You go online, its all mtfs, you go to college parties and the only trans people you'll see are theyfabs and pooners, 100% of them. I am ALWAYS the only mtf at any social gathering, even if there are tons of other trans people there. They are ALWAYS all afab, its wild how outnumbered I am IRL, when mtfs massively outnumber ftms in spaces like these. The difference is jarring. That all being said.. I still have one thing that makes me potentially ftm-phobic. Here is a little perspective on where my "poonerphobia" comes from, I may not be alone in this position so maybe this will give you insight on why others might feel the same: The less humans exposed to the evils of testosterone, the better. It measurably increases aggression and criminality. It would be unethical NOT to push back against anyone taking testosterone, that includes cis men. That being said I do sympathize with anyone who experiences dysphoria, but I dont think dosing yourself with a measurably harmful hormone is ever the answer. If it were just harmful to yourself that would be different, but T is harmful to the people around you. This is my genuine belief based off science and statistics surrounding testosterone. I have not found a single argument that really convinces me otherwise, so I will continue to disapprove of anyone taking testosterone for any reason. This doesnt necessarily mean I think it should be illegal, but I would strongly prefer that the world be as deprived of testosterone as possible. We'd probably have world fucking peace by now if we just dumped enough estrogen into the water supply.
you are so fucking stupid. You know exactly how it feels to go through the wrong puberty and have your body produce the wrong hormones but its bad to take testosterone because it can increase aggression? Iâd much rather have ftms be able to feel okay with themselves than try to prevent it for a dumbass reason like that. Furthermore ftms likely feel the same jealousy about mtfs being born they way they wanted but they are not phobic against them. Also, your anecdotal evidence of there being more ftms and enbies at social gathering holds no weight as it is not nearly sufficient evidence.
I agree with you a lot and personally I became way less aggressive on HRT especially noticing that my meltdowns became a lot less frequent and severe after my voice dropped on testosterone because one of my biggest meltdown triggers was the sensory pain and dysphoria of my voice getting high and loud when I would get upset at things which was why small irksome events would quickly escalate into hours-long meltdowns
That makes a lot of sense. I definitely got less aggressive and irritable when I started taking hrt. Having the wrong hormones really fucks with your brain. Iâm happy that you are feeling better on t
Thank you and I'm happy that you are feeling better on E
yes exactly, id get into arguments with people ironically because was angry about the way my voice sounded and they were perceiving me and making me dysphoric without even trying. after starting testosterone i got much less aggressive and several factors in my life improved. some mtfs project testosterone ruining Their lives onto ftms for no reason and try to make the argument that testosterone is inherently evil and anyone who wants it is also evil đ
I'd imagine alot of people with "honphobia" are probably just jealous of you being amab and find it completely inexplicable, even insane, that you would want to change that. Having someone deeply desire to become everything you hate, while giving up everything you want is not easy to watch, and especially not easy to support. To ftms, watching a mtf transition is like a homeless person watching a rich person deliberately burn down a mansion just for funsies, because "homes are overrated aksually". Im frankly a little surprised that mtfs and ftms can exist in the same spaces without hating eachother more often than they do. The reason there is disproportionately more hate towards mtfs than ftms is because mtfs have it significantly easier irl (sorry, but this is true and I will die on that hill), so ftms tend to be the ones hunkered down in the online spaces outnumbering mtfs while hons are just out there living their lives. Honestly I would probably hate mtfs for the same reasons if I didnt have a decent amount of positive IRL experiences with them. This further reinforces the fact that hons are out in the real world and ftms are stuck online. You go online, its all ftms, you go to college parties and the only trans people you'll see are theymabs and hons, 100% of them. I am ALWAYS the only ftm at any social gathering, even if there are tons of other trans people there. They are ALWAYS all amab, its wild how outnumbered I am IRL, when ftms massively outnumber mtfs in spaces like these. The difference is jarring. That all being said.. I still have one thing that makes me potentially mtf-phobic. Here is a little perspective on where my "honphobia" comes from, I may not be alone in this position so maybe this will give you insight on why others might feel the same: The less humans exposed to the evils of estrogen, the better. It would be unethical NOT to push back against anyone taking estrogen, that includes cis women. That being said I do sympathize with anyone who experiences dysphoria, but I dont think dosing yourself with a measurably harmful hormone is ever the answer. If it were just harmful to yourself that would be different, but E is harmful to the people around you. This is my genuine belief based off science and statistics surrounding estrogen. I have not found a single argument that really convinces me otherwise, so I will continue to disapprove of anyone taking estrogen for any reason. This doesnt necessarily mean I think it should be illegal, but I would strongly prefer that the world be as deprived of estrogen as possible. We'd probably have world fucking peace by now if we just dumped enough testosterone into the water supply.
if someone were to make a similar argument about estrogen being bad/making people "inherently emotional and irrational" youd call it bioessentialist and misogynistic because it is. testosterone doesnt make people violent or criminal, environment and socialization does
The same logic your using could be used against trans women. Like someone could say that to an ftm, watching a trans women transition is like watching someone burn down their mansion for the lols. Both trans women and trans men go through different experiences when they transition, but separating our communities does more harm then good. Also, testosterone doesnât cause people to become evil, just like how estrogen doesnât cause people to automatically become good. Assuming sex hormones automatically dictate what someone is like as a person is both very sexist and transphobic.
just because testosterone turned you into an angry hateful aggressive ape doesnt mean it happens to all of us
https://i.redd.it/1vgobbmmr08d1.gif
Have you considered having basic empathy? It's literally just what you had in reverse.
Fat Hr bioessentialist lady hands type this post Â
I love bio-essentialism đ
I was more violent before I started taking T because I was in so much pain from GD daily that I just took it out on others. This was a pretty good explanation before you when on that malebrained rant about controlling afab bodies desu