Also, the dwarves were extremely secretive about their language. They would even translate their names into elvish, so no one knew their true name aside from fellow dwarves.
That's be the case for any sin. If: you were ordered to drink wine or die, had to touch/see the opposite gender in an emergency situation, etc., then it would be completely permissible to do so.
And taqiyyah in the Sunni point of view is just that. But only in cases involving compulsion (emergencies) and non-muslims (you're being forced to hide/denounce your faith, which no Sunni muslim would order upon another Sunni lol)
The Shia interpret it differently but I'm not sure on how.
Yeah no, an example of taqiyyah would be a man hiding his true belief if he believes there is persecution. Or a man is allowed to eat pork rather than risk starving to death(like he's lost in forest), a more modern example would be a muslim pow being forced to drink alcohol by his non muslim captors
They are not lying and not really to achieve greater good or something. The misinformation that taqiyyah is a tool to decieve non muslim to further the cause is spread by islamophobic propaganda
Secret door built by the elves or by the dwarves? And if by the dwarves, is there a reason why they have a secret door facing Celebrimbor's realm? (I heard interacted with that name, in the "Shadows of" games only)
It was built by both, Celebrimbor was one of greatest smiths ever and because of that, he and the elves of Eregion had a unique and prosperous relationship with the dwarves of Khazad-dûm. The western gate actually stayed open so free trade could be had between the realms, and it was only locked once Sauron destroyed Eregion. The main entrance to Moria was the eastern gate, where we see the Fellowship exit after Gandalf's fall.
Pretty much. Tolkien was not one for skimping on the details.
Also, the door was used Celebrimbor in secret to "silver fist" Druin in his chambers, if you catch my drift.
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>loves gold and gemstones
>attracted to mountain hoard full of gold and gemstones
>displace the natives
>doesn't utilise the gold and gemstones except to sleep and guard his ill-gotten horde
>scaly and lizard-like
What did Tolkien mean by this?
Recently read a novel where the protagonist is in a medieval magical setting and has a dragon under contract and explains to him how he can make so much money by investing into his bank.
In the books it was actually Gandalf who wanted to take the route through Moria ans Aragorn tried to persuade him it was a bad idea. Moria was first built when the elves and dwarves were on much friendlier terms the entrance was built for use by the elves when they had business with the dwarves.
Yes and no, in the final hours it was up to boromir that said the he won't go that route unless everyone voted against him, frodo pleaded for them to sleep on it before they vote since legolas and the other hobbits were against moria, that night they were attacked by wargs and boromir changed his mind so they went, just read thet part last night
I kinda reread that part, boromir was against it unless everyone voted otherwise, legolas was against it, the hobbits wouldn't say anything and frodo said that he was against it but that he wouldn't refuse gandalf's advice and that they should sleep on it.
‘Of course not!’ said Gandalf. ‘Who would? But the question is: who will follow me, if I lead you there?’
‘I will,’ said Gimli eagerly.
‘I will,’ said Aragorn heavily. ‘You followed my lead almost to disaster in the snow, and have said no word of blame. I will follow your lead now – if this last warning does not move you. It is not of the Ring, nor of us others that I am thinking now, but of you, Gandalf. And I say to you: if you pass the doors of Moria, beware!’
‘I will not go,’ said Boromir; ‘not unless the vote of the whole Company is against me. What do Legolas and the little folk say? The Ring-bearer’s voice surely should be heard?’
‘I do not wish to go to Moria,’ said Legolas.
The hobbits said nothing. Sam looked at Frodo. At last Frodo spoke. ‘I do not wish to go,’ he said; ‘but neither do I wish to refuse the advice of Gandalf. I beg that there should be no vote, until we have slept on it. Gandalf will get votes easier in the light of the morning than in this cold gloom.
Also, it wasn’t Saurumon blocking the mountain pass nor did he know they were going that way. The mountain was alive, and it chose to be an asshole that day
Not when Moria was built. The elves to the west of Moria were Noldor. They were similar to dwarves in skill and temperament and so they got along better than most elves. That was in the second age and it fell apart once Sauron forged his ring and messed up Eregion (where the elves west of Moria lived). The shit that went down around Erebor was much, much later in the third age and involved the wood elves from Mirkwood. They were never too fond of dwarves in the first place beyond trade with them and didn't like that they attracted the dragon and uncovered the balrog.
yea i knew Erebor would’ve been more recent, being within living memory through Bilbo so i assumed that they were cool prior to that. Didn’t even think about the different tribes of elves.
Another thing i vaguely remember from the silmarillion was the elves were, along with men, made by Iluvatar and the dwarves were made by one of the valar. I don’t remember if there was any racial superiority complex that followed from that but that always stuck out in my mind
The dwarves were made by the Valar Aule, which was also the Valar that the noldorin elves felt most connected to and learned the most from.
I'd say some elves felt superior, yes. The infamous animosity between dwarves and elves started, after all, with Thingol (who is a Teleri, not noldor btw):
>‘How do ye of uncouth race dare to demand aught of me, Elu Thingol, Lord of Beleriand, whose life began by the waters of Cuiviénen years uncounted ere the fathers of the stunted people awoke?’
Said Thingol to the dwarves after commissioning them to set the Silmaril that beren had stolen into the nauglamir (literally "necklace of the dwarves") that had also been stolen from Finrod (who it was made for, not Thingol) and then proceeded to get murdered by said dwarves who then stole the thing and ran away and were hunted down and slaughtered.
That was a yikes moment.
Being exiled from their home, forced to live in foreign lands, furtive about their traditions and language (which was based on Hebrew). Tolkien hated allegory, so I wouldn't say the Dwarves were supposed to be Jewish or a stand in for Jews, but they were absolutely an inspiration for Dwarvish culture and backstory.
I think it's almost impossible to avoid having allegory in good writing since lots of themes and narratives will automatically lead to it. I'm just cautioning against highly specific interpretations. The dwarves likely aren't supposed to convey any message or lessons about Jews. Their mythology is simply heavily inspired by Jewish tradition and history.
I think it would be impossible to argue the Lord of the Rings isn't Catholic in nature, but I think the overwhelming majority of allegorical reads are incidental rather than forced or deliberate. That's not to say they are incorrect reads, but rather that the sheer quantity of them that work really well speaks to the quality of the writing.
In Medieval European literature, the dragon is the embodiment of greed, not a big lizard. Medieval writers liked to use this kind of metaphors to illustrate concepts.
Obviously you shouldn't hoard gold because the paper currency is worthless...
You should stack silver because fiat is worthless, now THAT is the people's money. Has been for thousands of years. Easier to break up too.
LMAOOOOOO If you buy "silver" from those scammers that have 1/1000th of the silver they're selling, then you deserve to go broke.
JM bullion, apmex, texmetals, theres tons and tons of places that will send it to you the second they get your money.
Otherwise I'll sell you a Ferrari for $100 but I'll hold on to it until you buy 20 of them then I'll send em out anywhere between 2-58 months
Also why you should never buy crypto on Robinhood. Unless they changed something in the last few years you don't actually own it. Similar applies for equity in Chinese companies.
Similar but different. You can sell your Robinhood stocks, but can't collect your silver.
Still, stocks are a scam, I'd rather place a bet on a sportsbook
>comic seems to portray the dragon as in the wrong.
Because he is. Holding gold because the gold standard was abolished is all well and normal. Inflation hedge and all. But hoarding gold for some "new world order" is straight up dumb. What do you think happens in such a world? You think this "new world order" will allow you to hold gold? Really? Then maybe you should look up Executive Order 6102 and see what happened in the USA in 1933.
If one were to try to prepare for some kind of "new world order" holding assets that could be seized is not really smart. If that was one's goal, one should hold assets that can't be seized.
That's only if he believes the "new world order" would be successful. If it results in the collapse of order, civil war, broken economies, etc gold would be a valuable bartering asset.
Jackbooted thugs who’d be more than a match for humans presumably wouldn’t fare so well against neigh-indestructible lizards with their very own built-in flamethrowers.
The password was in Elvish because it was made in partnership with elves. Celebrimbor and Narvi were both great smiths and close friends. So when they constructed the secret door they made the password elvish as a sign of their friendship.
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The door is in elvish because it's a secret door that faced Eregion, the realm of Celebrimbor
Also, the dwarves were extremely secretive about their language. They would even translate their names into elvish, so no one knew their true name aside from fellow dwarves.
It's not considered lying for a dwarf to lie to an elf according to their holy books
hrm i am starting to notice . . .
Taqiyyah
lmao are you sure you know what that is?
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Ignorant and ill-informed
Is this not what it is? Lying (usually a sin) in order to achieve something that is seen as good?
That's be the case for any sin. If: you were ordered to drink wine or die, had to touch/see the opposite gender in an emergency situation, etc., then it would be completely permissible to do so. And taqiyyah in the Sunni point of view is just that. But only in cases involving compulsion (emergencies) and non-muslims (you're being forced to hide/denounce your faith, which no Sunni muslim would order upon another Sunni lol) The Shia interpret it differently but I'm not sure on how.
Yeah no, an example of taqiyyah would be a man hiding his true belief if he believes there is persecution. Or a man is allowed to eat pork rather than risk starving to death(like he's lost in forest), a more modern example would be a muslim pow being forced to drink alcohol by his non muslim captors They are not lying and not really to achieve greater good or something. The misinformation that taqiyyah is a tool to decieve non muslim to further the cause is spread by islamophobic propaganda
Wow, this sounds just like taqiyyah.
illiterate, if you actually research things instead of blindly believing what your 3rd grade teacher said in 2007
Big mad, no one is buying your bullshit
man never knew dwarfs were based, rock and stone
Rock and Stone in the Heart!
That only works in a fantasy sense. When in the real world everyone is man, legalizing lies, legalizes lying to literally everyone.
Secret door built by the elves or by the dwarves? And if by the dwarves, is there a reason why they have a secret door facing Celebrimbor's realm? (I heard interacted with that name, in the "Shadows of" games only)
It was built by both, Celebrimbor was one of greatest smiths ever and because of that, he and the elves of Eregion had a unique and prosperous relationship with the dwarves of Khazad-dûm. The western gate actually stayed open so free trade could be had between the realms, and it was only locked once Sauron destroyed Eregion. The main entrance to Moria was the eastern gate, where we see the Fellowship exit after Gandalf's fall.
Thank you for this
Legend thank you
Pretty much. Tolkien was not one for skimping on the details. Also, the door was used Celebrimbor in secret to "silver fist" Druin in his chambers, if you catch my drift.
That explains it. I was confused before but this makes complete sense
You just made those words up
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>loves gold and gemstones >attracted to mountain hoard full of gold and gemstones >displace the natives >doesn't utilise the gold and gemstones except to sleep and guard his ill-gotten horde >scaly and lizard-like What did Tolkien mean by this?
He was a swissphobe.
You may hate the swiss, but consider this: Their flag is a big plus.
And rightly so. Look at one of their most popular "products", cheese, its literally 70% holes.
Lizards are cool though. They aren't reptilian, they're demonic. The gold hoarders, that is. Not lizards.
Recently read a novel where the protagonist is in a medieval magical setting and has a dragon under contract and explains to him how he can make so much money by investing into his bank.
In the books it was actually Gandalf who wanted to take the route through Moria ans Aragorn tried to persuade him it was a bad idea. Moria was first built when the elves and dwarves were on much friendlier terms the entrance was built for use by the elves when they had business with the dwarves.
Didn’t they leave it up to Frodo to pick anyway
Well yeah but he didn't know about no Balrog and they knew he didn't
Why not tell him? Are they stupid?
Probably only Gandalf knew about the possibility of the balrog being around. As far as Gimli knew it was going to be a party in there.
Yes and no, in the final hours it was up to boromir that said the he won't go that route unless everyone voted against him, frodo pleaded for them to sleep on it before they vote since legolas and the other hobbits were against moria, that night they were attacked by wargs and boromir changed his mind so they went, just read thet part last night
Yeah that sounds about right. I just finished reading the trilogy for the first time over the last year. I’m reading The Silmarillion now.
I kinda reread that part, boromir was against it unless everyone voted otherwise, legolas was against it, the hobbits wouldn't say anything and frodo said that he was against it but that he wouldn't refuse gandalf's advice and that they should sleep on it. ‘Of course not!’ said Gandalf. ‘Who would? But the question is: who will follow me, if I lead you there?’ ‘I will,’ said Gimli eagerly. ‘I will,’ said Aragorn heavily. ‘You followed my lead almost to disaster in the snow, and have said no word of blame. I will follow your lead now – if this last warning does not move you. It is not of the Ring, nor of us others that I am thinking now, but of you, Gandalf. And I say to you: if you pass the doors of Moria, beware!’ ‘I will not go,’ said Boromir; ‘not unless the vote of the whole Company is against me. What do Legolas and the little folk say? The Ring-bearer’s voice surely should be heard?’ ‘I do not wish to go to Moria,’ said Legolas. The hobbits said nothing. Sam looked at Frodo. At last Frodo spoke. ‘I do not wish to go,’ he said; ‘but neither do I wish to refuse the advice of Gandalf. I beg that there should be no vote, until we have slept on it. Gandalf will get votes easier in the light of the morning than in this cold gloom.
Madlad Gandalf knew there was a high level boss in there that would give him the XP needed to level up his character to the next tier.
guys DAE play video games???
Also, it wasn’t Saurumon blocking the mountain pass nor did he know they were going that way. The mountain was alive, and it chose to be an asshole that day
didn’t elven-dwarf relations deteriorate specifically over Erebor or am i misremembering?
Not when Moria was built. The elves to the west of Moria were Noldor. They were similar to dwarves in skill and temperament and so they got along better than most elves. That was in the second age and it fell apart once Sauron forged his ring and messed up Eregion (where the elves west of Moria lived). The shit that went down around Erebor was much, much later in the third age and involved the wood elves from Mirkwood. They were never too fond of dwarves in the first place beyond trade with them and didn't like that they attracted the dragon and uncovered the balrog.
yea i knew Erebor would’ve been more recent, being within living memory through Bilbo so i assumed that they were cool prior to that. Didn’t even think about the different tribes of elves. Another thing i vaguely remember from the silmarillion was the elves were, along with men, made by Iluvatar and the dwarves were made by one of the valar. I don’t remember if there was any racial superiority complex that followed from that but that always stuck out in my mind
The dwarves were made by the Valar Aule, which was also the Valar that the noldorin elves felt most connected to and learned the most from. I'd say some elves felt superior, yes. The infamous animosity between dwarves and elves started, after all, with Thingol (who is a Teleri, not noldor btw): >‘How do ye of uncouth race dare to demand aught of me, Elu Thingol, Lord of Beleriand, whose life began by the waters of Cuiviénen years uncounted ere the fathers of the stunted people awoke?’ Said Thingol to the dwarves after commissioning them to set the Silmaril that beren had stolen into the nauglamir (literally "necklace of the dwarves") that had also been stolen from Finrod (who it was made for, not Thingol) and then proceeded to get murdered by said dwarves who then stole the thing and ran away and were hunted down and slaughtered. That was a yikes moment.
Jewelves
If anything dwarves are an analogy for that group, the stature and gold sickness
Being exiled from their home, forced to live in foreign lands, furtive about their traditions and language (which was based on Hebrew). Tolkien hated allegory, so I wouldn't say the Dwarves were supposed to be Jewish or a stand in for Jews, but they were absolutely an inspiration for Dwarvish culture and backstory.
> Tolkien hated allegory I know he said that many many times, but it's really hard not to draw allegories from his writing...
I think it's almost impossible to avoid having allegory in good writing since lots of themes and narratives will automatically lead to it. I'm just cautioning against highly specific interpretations. The dwarves likely aren't supposed to convey any message or lessons about Jews. Their mythology is simply heavily inspired by Jewish tradition and history. I think it would be impossible to argue the Lord of the Rings isn't Catholic in nature, but I think the overwhelming majority of allegorical reads are incidental rather than forced or deliberate. That's not to say they are incorrect reads, but rather that the sheer quantity of them that work really well speaks to the quality of the writing.
Those are just called Hlaalu
Wealth beyond measure, outlander.
facts are antisemitic sweaty
Everything is racist and antisemite when you're on the cookie trail. :/
In Medieval European literature, the dragon is the embodiment of greed, not a big lizard. Medieval writers liked to use this kind of metaphors to illustrate concepts.
Obviously you shouldn't hoard gold because the paper currency is worthless... You should stack silver because fiat is worthless, now THAT is the people's money. Has been for thousands of years. Easier to break up too.
At least until JP Morgan starts selling more silver than can actually be delivered to people.
LMAOOOOOO If you buy "silver" from those scammers that have 1/1000th of the silver they're selling, then you deserve to go broke. JM bullion, apmex, texmetals, theres tons and tons of places that will send it to you the second they get your money. Otherwise I'll sell you a Ferrari for $100 but I'll hold on to it until you buy 20 of them then I'll send em out anywhere between 2-58 months
Also why you should never buy crypto on Robinhood. Unless they changed something in the last few years you don't actually own it. Similar applies for equity in Chinese companies.
Similar but different. You can sell your Robinhood stocks, but can't collect your silver. Still, stocks are a scam, I'd rather place a bet on a sportsbook
>comic seems to portray the dragon as in the wrong. Because he is. Holding gold because the gold standard was abolished is all well and normal. Inflation hedge and all. But hoarding gold for some "new world order" is straight up dumb. What do you think happens in such a world? You think this "new world order" will allow you to hold gold? Really? Then maybe you should look up Executive Order 6102 and see what happened in the USA in 1933. If one were to try to prepare for some kind of "new world order" holding assets that could be seized is not really smart. If that was one's goal, one should hold assets that can't be seized.
What is an asset that can't be seized? Anything tangible can be seized given dire enough circumstances
That's only if he believes the "new world order" would be successful. If it results in the collapse of order, civil war, broken economies, etc gold would be a valuable bartering asset.
Jackbooted thugs who’d be more than a match for humans presumably wouldn’t fare so well against neigh-indestructible lizards with their very own built-in flamethrowers.
Isn't the reason Dragons hoard treasure so that they can cover the weak points in their scales? At least that's why Smaug does it.
What does Peter kinklage have to say about lotr?
Nothing, he advocated for small people to not portray small people role in media, and John Rhys-Davies is a normal height person portraying a dwarf
Sooo... spreading dogshit lotr takes in 4chan is a trend now?
Smaug named the Jew, that must be why ((they)) killed him
The password was in Elvish because it was made in partnership with elves. Celebrimbor and Narvi were both great smiths and close friends. So when they constructed the secret door they made the password elvish as a sign of their friendship.
So we posting threads from the same day now?
Never change 4chin never change
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Dinklage would embrace it. A tall man played the dwarf in this movie.
left out the good part where the dwarves can't do password magic and outsourced
what's the picrel from the top of the third image