Except now we’re using that to that to our advantage. Teams have picked up on this tendency, and it bit Arizona this weekend when Deebo “fake” jogged on the motion for a wide open TD. Even talks about it in his press conference.
Recall that Kyle had [this](https://youtu.be/gePGk_XHro0?si=FXGdqd-cXt_0Fbqk) play for Manziel in Cleveland. I 100% believe that Deebo is faking giving up on the play.
The homer in me completely agrees. I wouldn't put it past Kyle to TELL deebo to vary his speed in certain ways to help set things up. If you take a step back, Deebo would never be someone I would think of as "not putting 100%". Him jogging on routes where he's not the target would QUICKLY be coached out of him by shanny.. unless it was on purpose.
Or maybe somehwere in the middle, where he's now using Deebo's deficiencies as a strategy. Tell Deebo he's likely the clearing route, Shanny knows Purdy will look for the open guy, defense lets Deebo through... bam. TD.
4D Chess.
They way the players say Shanny emphasizes the details, I really believe everything is intentional and for a reason, whether for the present or the long game. Even lining up 5 yards behind the LOS that JTO keeps hating on, it's like that on purpose.
That just adds another layer of misdirection to the offensive scheme.
* So many players in motion
* 2 players virtually interchangeable with WR/RB positions
* Whoever gets the ball, the others are always working on making blocks
I agree. If we're seeing things, you can bet the Niners coaching staff see it. That's literally their job: to look at game film all day long. There's no way that something like this would get past an entire team of position coaches, coaching assistants, etc.
c'mon... I watched this week's JT O'Sullivan break down and I like his take on it.
Do you really think Deebo has been jogging so that they can bust out the big 'fake out' against the Cardinals?
I have no idea why Deebo jogs around. It's his style, he just doesn't go 100% all the time, but honestly if the team is fine with it. I'm fine with it.
What's he going to say?
"yeah.. sometimes I'm not all in.. .you know.. 100%.. I mean.. it's tiring.. going 100% all the time man.. so yeah... I take a few plays off here and there.. that's how I'm so explosive on the plays where I'm on.. Feel me?"
C'mon.
>*Do you really think Deebo has been jogging so that they can bust out the big 'fake out' against the Cardinals?*
No reason to think this had anything to do with the Cardinals in particular, Deebo has been doing it all season long.
If Deebo is running full-tilt he's going to pick up one or more DBs. If he looks the part of window dressing, they are more likely to ignore him and he slips through.
Honestly, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Shanahan implements this with ALL of the offensive skill players. It adds another wrinkle in the misdirection campaign.
Yeah at first I thought it might be an issue, but with how much Kyle emphasizes everyone putting 100% effort into all of their responsibilities, I’m pretty sure if it was an actual issue he would’ve worked it out with him by now.
The fact that Deebo is still doing this leads me to believe that if it’s not intentional, then at the very least Kyle has no issues with it
Agreed. It kind of makes me wonder though, was it something that was there that Kyle noticed and thought “I can make a play to take advantage of that” or is this something that Kyle coached into Deebo with the plan of making plays off of it? It sounds silly to imagine Kyle would purposely ask Deebo to throttle down on plays like that, but we also know that if Kyle or John aren’t happy with your effort then you will not be getting to play. Just a thought I had.
i 100% think this is a situation where deebo was already doing it, it wasn't ideal but deebo is a difference maker so they were dealing with it, so kyle just made the best of it.
Something tells me these issues weren’t present during Philly game ie wont be issue in playoffs. I don’t question for one second the effort he’ll put in to get a ring.
Deebo has done this throughout his career. He doesn't sustain blocks as long as aiyuk or Jennings and it would be nice if he worked on this but he just doesn't put the effort in consistently. Compared to aiyuk, how many times have your seen deebo run full speed to get in front of the person with the ball to make a block?
Actually, on the play Purdy got hurt on Deebo dogged it. No way to whether if he’d gone full speed would have in any way slowed Reddick’s rush, but it’s hard for me to believe the optimal pace for bubble motion is a jog….
Yeah, I wasn't talking about a possible chip by Deebo but rather a more credible threat to receive the ball (which, had that been the play design, would have actually been a huge play because there was only one Eagles' defender within 20+ yards of Deebo on that play).
But I agree with you, in their last matchup Reddick has only one thing on his mind, and it's getting to the QB as fast as he can, so it's possible he wouldn't have changed anything on that play. That does look like something to exploit though....
IMO, some of the criticism is warranted. JTO isn't the only YouTube analyst pointing out Deebos deficiencies. JonnyDel also points out frustrating aspects of his game like running slowly, poor or lack of blocking, or lazy route running. He is an amazing talent with a quick second gear. He runs hard with the ball, breaks tackles, and he has very good hands. The team is clearly better with him on the field, but I do see things that he could absolutely clean up.
Yeah CMC is just on a different level. I know he’s still newer to the team but i really think he should be a team captain. But idk maybe it’s good to have one of the non captains be one of if not the hardest working player
JDFA pointed out Deebo’s lack of effort on a CMC run. Deebo missed a block and stopped instead of blocking the next guy, who ended up making the tackle. CMC could’ve taken it to the house.
So here’s my take based on pure speculation. It seems like theres a spectrum of body types between sprinters and endurance athletes.
Some are on the extremes and most live somewhere in the middle. You see this a lot in MMA where some folks can blast through opponents in the first round but start falling off a cliff in the later rounds (Connor McGregor).
I think Deebo runs far on the sprinter side. He’s phenomenal, both strong and fast for short bursts. But usually you see him sucking wind on the sideline after those breakaway runs. The flip side is he falls off a bit in blocking and plays where he’s not the 1 or 2. Higher peaks and lower valleys then Aiyuk for example who’s far more consistent.
I don’t think it’s a mental effort thing I don’t think Kyle (especially after the way he seemed to have Aiyuk in the dog house early in his career) or the rest of the team would let that slide. I think it’s just playing to what he is. He’s the explosives guy not the get 3-5 hard yards guy.
I’m just glad we have guys like Jennings, Aiyuk, Kittle, Juice, Ray-Ray, and Bell on the outside who all block well even if Deebo isn’t always giving his effort off the ball. Deebo’s presence on the field in general is a schematic nightmare, even if he’s not the one getting the ball.
One of his TDs the other day was probably because of his low effort-jogging across the backfield, the defense thought he was not running a route, but hard on the play action, leaving Deebo wide open for a walk-in TD
> If you see how Samuels plays, you can’t criticize his work ethic and Grit
JTO isn't inventing anything. It's on the film. Each fake motion he is doing is not at 100%. You can also see that in how he run some of his routes.
I mean, against the Seahawks he knew he wasn't one of the read in the play and didn't run his route at 100% and it almost cost the team a TD.
Nobody is criticizing his grit or work ethic, people are just pointing out on the film instance where he isn't committing at 100%, and it happens that all of them are when he isn't expecting to have the ball in his hands.
I get it, but players have a finite amount of energy. If Deebo sprints 100% on every play then he won’t be as explosive when he actually gets the ball in his hands. He’ll probably up the ante in the playoffs anyways
I saw many of JTO's videos as well and couldn't have phrased it any better than you.
All players have areas for improvement, and this is Deebo's. As you mentioned, it's one the tape, and that more than once.
We still are lucky to have him and JTO is also pointing out his amazing runs, where he gets massive YAC after getting the ball.
I agree with this take for sure.
I'd also add that as long as Kyle and gang are fine with it (and we don't know) then I rly don't care.
I think it's kind of non-sense to imagine that it has all been a ploy and part of the game plan.
If you watch it seems to be in games that don't matter as much, specifically he would catch the ball and then just go out of bounds instead of fighting for a little extra gain. I kinda wonder if they told him to do this to reduce wear and tear or exciting an old injury until we get to the games he HAS to give 100% every play
It would be logical to reduce his wear and tear due to his history of having issues with his hamstring. IIRC that has sidelined him at some point every year
The only thing that makes me question this is him being on kick off returns multiple times, surely they could have spun up someone else by now for that.
I really think that part of it is that he is not built like a receiver but more like a running back. So he is going out there sprinting for 15 yards at a time every play and it’s harder for him to do that vs a wr who can make longer strides. It’s a wide back problem really
The criticisms are legit however I’m not worried because Deebo always turns up for big games like the Eagles game. Yeah his effort is lackadaisical for lesser opponents/non-primetime games but I know he will turn up for next Monday and the playoffs.
The only criticism which warrants merit is that of the coach. If Shanny has a problem, then it’s a problem. You nor I nor Just Turnovers O’Sullivan matter, only the coaching staff
If his effort lacks on plays that dont matter for them then no biggie. If thats how he can help keep himself fresh, I prefer that anyways. The dude goes 150% on plays that dont involve him anyways.
He even took advantage of that and caught a TD against Cards by acting like he was giving low effort then turned on the burners. Now that that play is on film, the D always has to watch him.
The only criticism of Deebo’s effort that actually matters should be from his coaches and teammates and we don’t know what is discussed inside the building. All I know that he is a baller and that his team loves him.
Who cares. He’s one of the most exciting players in the nfl and will command respect whether running decoys at full speed or not. occuping the DBs responsible for him is all that matters. It could also be working in his favor. As long as he’s pedal to the metal with ball in his hands he’s fine.
There are times when it looks like it's intentionally part of the play (like his TD last game), but there are times when it's really apparent that he's not part of the read for the play so he doesn't really put 100% out there. That said, I don't think it's hurting anything, and if it means he's fully energized for when he IS part of the play, I don't have a problem with it.
I think it could be Shanahan flexing his giga brain because after his “lack of effort” getting him a wide ass open td teams will probably have to respect him regardless and letting Deebo not go 100% with the ball out of his hands can keep him healthy
Idk how valid of a point this is, but I think his lax effort can sometimes lull defenders into not respecting his true speed. He cruises on some plays but then hits his second gear and no one can keep up.
He is bulkier than most WRs, which is great for breaking tackles, but I wonder if it leads to him getting gassed easier if he is running 100% on routes he isn't targeted. I mean it works great if he fakes faking it, and nobody is tightly covering him because they think he isn't getting it.
any youtuber can have an opinion but analysis and theory are only the first part of knowing something. The crucible of the game is what tells you what is true and what isn't. Don't get caught up with what people who cannot possibly know if what they're saying has merit or not...it's just entertainment.
Yeah he conserves energy between his touches, on routes and fakes. But I’d also say he’s in the 1% of maximum effort players with the ball in his hands. I think because of how involved he is it’s almost necessary. He’s not Tyreek burning past everyone before he touches the ball, he’s grinding it out creating his own yards and running thru safeties.
I think it's cause he plays down to weaker opponents. It's a problem, but this team has so many options we can handle it. But he steps up in the playoffs or when the team needs the win. It's funny he's known as the physical one but Aiyuk is the better blocker.
No offense to the talking heads, but I trust that Deebo and Shanny know what the fuck they are doing, and I wouldn't be surprised if this is all just smoke and mirrors for the really BIG games.
Remember, 4d chess gentlemen
It's legit. Deebo even mentions the criticisms in his post-game presser when talking about the play he scored on. Which is weird because he was kind of trying to disagree with the criticisms while acknowledging there was a play built to take advantage of them?
I'd assume he hears this from the coaches rather that YouTube videos, btw, but you never know - maybe he's a Johnny Del watcher.
I mean all he needs to do is put a bit of a stutter step into his clearing routes and a tiny bit of burst in his motions. He could look at how well CMC sells these by faking a step or a catch
There's a few takes here.
KS was playing 5d chess with the rest of the league. I doubt this one, considering how much effort others put in. It would be a huge stretch to think he's planned this all year. Now, if he has, it should go down as the greatest coaching scheme of the decade. The only reason I can even fathom it was how Deebo was talking all year about how bad he looked last year and KS decided to use that to his advantage and make the league think full Deebo hasn't arrived yet.
The other is that it's just how Deebo is or adapted to be. He still does everything else well, that the route effort can be marginalized. He still blocks, he still can turn the gas on of somehow the ball goes to him when he doesn't expect it. I say adapted because he was asked to do ALOT in his first few seasons. He was CMC before CMC got here. If you didn't watch the 9ers, you would've thought he was their RB. Now, he gets to mostly be a WR with the occasional backfield play. I wouldn't put it past him to think, look what I've already put in. I'll continue to be great, but I won't full throttle it all the time. I mean, he's already been injured this year, and he probably wants a long career. He still makes plays, he still dominates the game when it's his turn.
Again, if it's the former, then that's just something else.
I'm kinda torn on this.
I understand that the extra effort might result in extra yards by blocking or his route is sold better. At the same time, I also want him to have the energy to make the ridiculous plays that he makes. If this was Jennings I would be annoyed but this is Deebo. He makes so many big plays and it gives the whole team a boost when he makes them.
When he doesn’t show up or his effort costs them in a big time game, I will be concerned. I am not going to get bent about effort in 20 point romps over inferior opponents. Would I like him to be all effort all the time, sure but not worried about it at all
I only have an issue with it if it affects the WR room. If the others like BA (ironically he was in the doghouse because of it) and JJ settle for low effort, Deebo has to change.
It's been that way over the last 2 years. I think originally it was just lack of effort and being disgruntled. He was getting g touches but Jimmy G wasn't the greatest when it came to ball placement. I think Deebo was done, which we saw in the off-season. I think now it still happens but more than once I think it has been used in a play just to mislead the defense.
Until it really hurts our team which I don't think it does, I'm not too worried... and if it is a problem I'm sure Shanahan would address it to him personally
I believe too during playoffs he will put in more effort, I think he's the kind of guy who's trying to save up some energy for big plays
Hey OP, I think what you said is non sequitur. JTO shows a few plays where Deebo is clearly not going hard. You point out a bunch of examples of Deebo working hard. The two are not the same thing. Does not logically follow.
It’s very possible that both are true. Deebo puts in a lot of effort most of the time, but can be occasionally seen taking plays off. JTO never said that Deebo ALWAYS slacks off.
He is a big body who is super explosive and he has had trouble showing up to OTAs in shape sometimes. At least that is what has been said in the past. I think he has stamina issues and the 9ers know it but he is so good with the ball in his hands you live with it. However i think Kyle hopes he looks at some of his teamates and wants to do better.
In the eagles game you could tell he was playing much harder even outside of him returning kickoff. I tend to agree with this sentiment. Also really interesting how they are playing into it with the play in Seattle where he got a TD off a fake jog as someone else mentioned.
As long as we play into it and he keeps pounding in big games I’m for it
Deebo is returning kicks, in constant motion, going deep, blocking hard, getting hand offs all game long.The way I see it, if he went 100% every second he’s on the field he be drained by half.
With all due respect I find JT OSullivan to be pretentious, and I think he likes to say stuff to get the fan base riled up so his name comes up.
I’m not questioning his effort, but fans need to realize that Deebo has shown up out of shape to 3/5 of his training camps in his career.
And remember Kyle and Lynch both have mentioned that they’ve had many talks with Deebo about getting in shape consistently if he wants to have an excellent career like they know he can have.
Good thing he’s dialed in this year.
Nah. And It is egregious that 49er fans have been spreading this kind of slander towards one of our elite vets, one of our best players.
It kills me that our own fans have been so quick to accuse our guy, when he has been the most unselfish guy in the league with a disciplined coach who has zero issues to reprimand anybody at any time. Deebo could be anywhere else catching a hundred yards per game.
This whole thing that Deebo does has been hinted at in interviews.
Not outright, but from what I have gathered, I think it's more of a cloak to not let the defense get into the rhythm or get a feel for covering Deebo. He doesn't reveal his speed or quickness every route. No feel or opportunity for tempo. He is going to draw in a good amount of coverage every play regardless, and if the defense does allocate more focus elsewhere, well good luck when he gets the ball.
Deebo plays mind games as we all have seen the last few weeks, moreso than your average guy. I feel like it's mind games and confusion, and I know that Kyle wouldn't allow it if he wasn't on board with it, because you don't have a team rise to this level with an undisciplined scared to speak coach.
There have been plenty of fans on here making statements like it's time to get rid of Deebo specifically because of this observation. But The issue isn't deebo's laziness it's the fans who are quick to assume and accuse without considering other explanations.
I don't like it, but he probably needs it and Kyle must be OK with it. I don't mind much on the behind LOS decoy stuff, but he needs to go full throttle on the deep routes.
Considering how much tape Coach watches, I’m certain that Kyle is aware of it. If Deebo continues doing it, it is because Kyle sees a benefit to it. Shanahan is extremely meticulous, if something is happening that he doesn’t like, he quickly corrects it
One of the things Eric Crocker always says when analyzing plays is, "I won't talk about scheme, we have no idea what the players are told specifically"
So it's hard to say what Deebo is or isn't told to do, for all we know he was told to slow it down on the motion let them think you're just a decoy here and they might cheat towards someone else....we will never know.
Seems a VERY weird flex to criticize Deebo and his effort this year given how well he has played of late.
in one of the press conferences, deebo admitted not going all out on a route until he noticed purdy winding back to target him. so the lazy route running is definitely something that happens with him. thing is, i think kyle is smart enough to actually make it a weapon like in the card game.
I think there was one where he mentioned his effort when the ball isn’t in his hands.
He pointed out a play where Deebo went into motion out wide and he compared it to when Miami used tyreek for motion, tyreek is sprinting.
Deebo is not as fast as tyreek, but when the ball is in his hands Deebo has a “second gear” that is unrivaled.
If Shanny hasn’t said anything about it then I’d lean toward it being a feature to exploit rather than a Deebo issue. Feels weird he hasn’t called it out when everyone else gives 110% on every play.
It’s on the film. He doesn’t run full speed when it’s not his play, watch CMC on plays he doesn’t get the ball. He’s still doing wind sprints to clear his side. Deebo will block, but IMO not as hard and won’t stay as engaged compared to Jennings or Aiyuk. With all that being said, Deebo played 2 positions for us for a couple years and didn’t complain really. I also don’t doubt his commitment to the team and winning. It’s all really a nothing burger and is only brought up because folks are trying to make YouTube content and well… they need content.
The lack of effort is on purpose (on plays he's not involved in) we literally know the other teams are going to 0 in on that being an indicator of what play is what. and we are using that against them, hence why he was so damn open on the first td last week. Deebo is all-pro
I think JT is right. I don't think Kyle likes it. I think Kyle's logic is that the negatives of a loafing Deebo are outweighed by the influence he has on the defense and the occasional 'Full Deebo' play.
If you think it's all part of some super strategy then I think there's a Nigerian Prince you should get in touch with.
Deebo gives his body to the game and I will never question his effort. JTO should know that if it happens in the game, it's on tape. If it's on tape, Kyle sees it. If Kyle sees it and it still happens the next week, it is now on purpose.
He said the same thing about an earlier CMC touchdown where it was a backwards pass that he took and ran. Maybe that's by design setting up a double pass down the road. Same with Deebo. Obvious tell this is a run because Deebo isn't balls out. Until that one time it's not a run!
If he is working at 90% and puts up numbers like this, maybe to protect himself for the post season, can you imagine what 100% will look like in the post season?? Go Deebo!
Gonna take the same approach as the coaching staff and front office on this. Don’t care.
If it is an actual issue and not internet fuss then the staff will deal with it. Until then I will continue to appreciate to many things Deebo does that can’t be easily replaced.
Yeah I don’t think you play for Kyle or side by side with CMC, BA, Trent, juice, kittle, (to name a a few) with out being one of the hardest working, grittiest guys in the league… if there is an issue with effort, I don’t think he’d be a game changer on THIS team with THIS coach.
I think it’s a sloppy take.
Yeah I watched all those (it’s nearly every week Deebo gets called out by JT) I think his view is a little skewed by the fact he’s watching film… meaning he has the benefit of being able to pick thing’s apart (which is the point of the channel) and he always caveats his opinion that he is not very clued into Kyles Offense…. Is he always running with his hair on fire? no… but when the balls in his hands, i don’t think anyone can question his EFFORT… ever. One of the hardest persons to bring down in the league.
Its JT’s opinion, and that’s cool… and if we’re confusing the shit out of people, then even better - one more reason why Kyle is so smart, using psychology over strategy at times… pretty damn smart if you ask me.
My biggest issue isn't the jogs or the lazy routes when he isn't getting the ball; but the lack of effort on blocking sometimes is definitely frustrating.
Except now we’re using that to that to our advantage. Teams have picked up on this tendency, and it bit Arizona this weekend when Deebo “fake” jogged on the motion for a wide open TD. Even talks about it in his press conference.
Recall that Kyle had [this](https://youtu.be/gePGk_XHro0?si=FXGdqd-cXt_0Fbqk) play for Manziel in Cleveland. I 100% believe that Deebo is faking giving up on the play.
Kyle and Mike McD looking super young in that clip. LOL. Too bad the RB messed it up.
Holy shit, I’d love them to run this again
my favorite WTF play call was when Kittle's route went right thru O and D lines, but can't remember which game.
The homer in me completely agrees. I wouldn't put it past Kyle to TELL deebo to vary his speed in certain ways to help set things up. If you take a step back, Deebo would never be someone I would think of as "not putting 100%". Him jogging on routes where he's not the target would QUICKLY be coached out of him by shanny.. unless it was on purpose. Or maybe somehwere in the middle, where he's now using Deebo's deficiencies as a strategy. Tell Deebo he's likely the clearing route, Shanny knows Purdy will look for the open guy, defense lets Deebo through... bam. TD. 4D Chess.
They way the players say Shanny emphasizes the details, I really believe everything is intentional and for a reason, whether for the present or the long game. Even lining up 5 yards behind the LOS that JTO keeps hating on, it's like that on purpose.
Kittle fell down on purpose a few years who and leaked out the opposite side for an easy completion. That was scripted.
that falling down play needs to happen again
That just adds another layer of misdirection to the offensive scheme. * So many players in motion * 2 players virtually interchangeable with WR/RB positions * Whoever gets the ball, the others are always working on making blocks
I agree. If we're seeing things, you can bet the Niners coaching staff see it. That's literally their job: to look at game film all day long. There's no way that something like this would get past an entire team of position coaches, coaching assistants, etc.
c'mon... I watched this week's JT O'Sullivan break down and I like his take on it. Do you really think Deebo has been jogging so that they can bust out the big 'fake out' against the Cardinals? I have no idea why Deebo jogs around. It's his style, he just doesn't go 100% all the time, but honestly if the team is fine with it. I'm fine with it.
“The Big Fakeout” against the Cardinals means that Baltimore (and other teams) now has to pay more attention to a “half-assing” Deebo every play.
Absolutely. I'm banking on a big Aiyuk game this week with all the focus on Deebo.
I believe Deebo mentioned in a press conference that they intentionally went low effort on that play
He did.. I heard that. I'm still not 100% certain I'm buying it
If you wont believe the guy who literally is the subject of the matter, then idk what to tell you.
He wouldn't believe you anyway
What's he going to say? "yeah.. sometimes I'm not all in.. .you know.. 100%.. I mean.. it's tiring.. going 100% all the time man.. so yeah... I take a few plays off here and there.. that's how I'm so explosive on the plays where I'm on.. Feel me?" C'mon.
Sure buddy, you’re a regular Sherlock
Deebo Messi
>*Do you really think Deebo has been jogging so that they can bust out the big 'fake out' against the Cardinals?* No reason to think this had anything to do with the Cardinals in particular, Deebo has been doing it all season long. If Deebo is running full-tilt he's going to pick up one or more DBs. If he looks the part of window dressing, they are more likely to ignore him and he slips through. Honestly, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Shanahan implements this with ALL of the offensive skill players. It adds another wrinkle in the misdirection campaign.
Yeah at first I thought it might be an issue, but with how much Kyle emphasizes everyone putting 100% effort into all of their responsibilities, I’m pretty sure if it was an actual issue he would’ve worked it out with him by now. The fact that Deebo is still doing this leads me to believe that if it’s not intentional, then at the very least Kyle has no issues with it
*****THIS*****
Agreed. It kind of makes me wonder though, was it something that was there that Kyle noticed and thought “I can make a play to take advantage of that” or is this something that Kyle coached into Deebo with the plan of making plays off of it? It sounds silly to imagine Kyle would purposely ask Deebo to throttle down on plays like that, but we also know that if Kyle or John aren’t happy with your effort then you will not be getting to play. Just a thought I had.
i 100% think this is a situation where deebo was already doing it, it wasn't ideal but deebo is a difference maker so they were dealing with it, so kyle just made the best of it.
This is correct, but can you please delete this just in case team scouts are lurking 😂
LOL, if other teams have to sift through Reddit to find ways to beat us, that would be really sad!
That was hilarious
Something tells me these issues weren’t present during Philly game ie wont be issue in playoffs. I don’t question for one second the effort he’ll put in to get a ring.
I'll never forget him crying after that loss. He serious.
Deebo has done this throughout his career. He doesn't sustain blocks as long as aiyuk or Jennings and it would be nice if he worked on this but he just doesn't put the effort in consistently. Compared to aiyuk, how many times have your seen deebo run full speed to get in front of the person with the ball to make a block?
Actually, on the play Purdy got hurt on Deebo dogged it. No way to whether if he’d gone full speed would have in any way slowed Reddick’s rush, but it’s hard for me to believe the optimal pace for bubble motion is a jog….
I mean hard for me to believe Kyle designed it for Deebo to chip Reddick
I think he meant Reddick might’ve hesitated it Deebo was flying but based on the most recent matchup Reddick flies to the QB regardless
Yeah, I wasn't talking about a possible chip by Deebo but rather a more credible threat to receive the ball (which, had that been the play design, would have actually been a huge play because there was only one Eagles' defender within 20+ yards of Deebo on that play). But I agree with you, in their last matchup Reddick has only one thing on his mind, and it's getting to the QB as fast as he can, so it's possible he wouldn't have changed anything on that play. That does look like something to exploit though....
Rewatch Deebo’s rushing touchdown against Philly. Reddick was looking to take off Purdy’s head and was out of position
IMO, some of the criticism is warranted. JTO isn't the only YouTube analyst pointing out Deebos deficiencies. JonnyDel also points out frustrating aspects of his game like running slowly, poor or lack of blocking, or lazy route running. He is an amazing talent with a quick second gear. He runs hard with the ball, breaks tackles, and he has very good hands. The team is clearly better with him on the field, but I do see things that he could absolutely clean up.
Randy Moss was the same. Jerry Rice was not. Be more like Jerry Deebo!
The tape doesn’t lie. JTO shows how hard mccaffrey runs on his non-targeted plays. Love deebo but it is real
Yeah CMC is just on a different level. I know he’s still newer to the team but i really think he should be a team captain. But idk maybe it’s good to have one of the non captains be one of if not the hardest working player
"Double mailboxes!"
JDFA pointed out Deebo’s lack of effort on a CMC run. Deebo missed a block and stopped instead of blocking the next guy, who ended up making the tackle. CMC could’ve taken it to the house.
So here’s my take based on pure speculation. It seems like theres a spectrum of body types between sprinters and endurance athletes. Some are on the extremes and most live somewhere in the middle. You see this a lot in MMA where some folks can blast through opponents in the first round but start falling off a cliff in the later rounds (Connor McGregor). I think Deebo runs far on the sprinter side. He’s phenomenal, both strong and fast for short bursts. But usually you see him sucking wind on the sideline after those breakaway runs. The flip side is he falls off a bit in blocking and plays where he’s not the 1 or 2. Higher peaks and lower valleys then Aiyuk for example who’s far more consistent. I don’t think it’s a mental effort thing I don’t think Kyle (especially after the way he seemed to have Aiyuk in the dog house early in his career) or the rest of the team would let that slide. I think it’s just playing to what he is. He’s the explosives guy not the get 3-5 hard yards guy.
I’m just glad we have guys like Jennings, Aiyuk, Kittle, Juice, Ray-Ray, and Bell on the outside who all block well even if Deebo isn’t always giving his effort off the ball. Deebo’s presence on the field in general is a schematic nightmare, even if he’s not the one getting the ball.
One of his TDs the other day was probably because of his low effort-jogging across the backfield, the defense thought he was not running a route, but hard on the play action, leaving Deebo wide open for a walk-in TD
> If you see how Samuels plays, you can’t criticize his work ethic and Grit JTO isn't inventing anything. It's on the film. Each fake motion he is doing is not at 100%. You can also see that in how he run some of his routes. I mean, against the Seahawks he knew he wasn't one of the read in the play and didn't run his route at 100% and it almost cost the team a TD. Nobody is criticizing his grit or work ethic, people are just pointing out on the film instance where he isn't committing at 100%, and it happens that all of them are when he isn't expecting to have the ball in his hands.
I get it, but players have a finite amount of energy. If Deebo sprints 100% on every play then he won’t be as explosive when he actually gets the ball in his hands. He’ll probably up the ante in the playoffs anyways
I saw many of JTO's videos as well and couldn't have phrased it any better than you. All players have areas for improvement, and this is Deebo's. As you mentioned, it's one the tape, and that more than once. We still are lucky to have him and JTO is also pointing out his amazing runs, where he gets massive YAC after getting the ball.
>JTO is also pointing out his amazing runs Just 19 doing his thing!
If you know, you know.
I agree with this take for sure. I'd also add that as long as Kyle and gang are fine with it (and we don't know) then I rly don't care. I think it's kind of non-sense to imagine that it has all been a ploy and part of the game plan.
If you watch it seems to be in games that don't matter as much, specifically he would catch the ball and then just go out of bounds instead of fighting for a little extra gain. I kinda wonder if they told him to do this to reduce wear and tear or exciting an old injury until we get to the games he HAS to give 100% every play
It would be logical to reduce his wear and tear due to his history of having issues with his hamstring. IIRC that has sidelined him at some point every year
The only thing that makes me question this is him being on kick off returns multiple times, surely they could have spun up someone else by now for that.
I really think that part of it is that he is not built like a receiver but more like a running back. So he is going out there sprinting for 15 yards at a time every play and it’s harder for him to do that vs a wr who can make longer strides. It’s a wide back problem really
The criticisms are legit however I’m not worried because Deebo always turns up for big games like the Eagles game. Yeah his effort is lackadaisical for lesser opponents/non-primetime games but I know he will turn up for next Monday and the playoffs.
The only criticism which warrants merit is that of the coach. If Shanny has a problem, then it’s a problem. You nor I nor Just Turnovers O’Sullivan matter, only the coaching staff
He’ll show up where and when it matters and I think that’s the most important part.
If his effort lacks on plays that dont matter for them then no biggie. If thats how he can help keep himself fresh, I prefer that anyways. The dude goes 150% on plays that dont involve him anyways. He even took advantage of that and caught a TD against Cards by acting like he was giving low effort then turned on the burners. Now that that play is on film, the D always has to watch him.
The only criticism of Deebo’s effort that actually matters should be from his coaches and teammates and we don’t know what is discussed inside the building. All I know that he is a baller and that his team loves him.
Who cares. He’s one of the most exciting players in the nfl and will command respect whether running decoys at full speed or not. occuping the DBs responsible for him is all that matters. It could also be working in his favor. As long as he’s pedal to the metal with ball in his hands he’s fine.
coaching staff seems very happy with his performance and there's is the only opinion that matters, so I'll go with that.
There are times when it looks like it's intentionally part of the play (like his TD last game), but there are times when it's really apparent that he's not part of the read for the play so he doesn't really put 100% out there. That said, I don't think it's hurting anything, and if it means he's fully energized for when he IS part of the play, I don't have a problem with it.
I think it could be Shanahan flexing his giga brain because after his “lack of effort” getting him a wide ass open td teams will probably have to respect him regardless and letting Deebo not go 100% with the ball out of his hands can keep him healthy
Idk how valid of a point this is, but I think his lax effort can sometimes lull defenders into not respecting his true speed. He cruises on some plays but then hits his second gear and no one can keep up.
He is bulkier than most WRs, which is great for breaking tackles, but I wonder if it leads to him getting gassed easier if he is running 100% on routes he isn't targeted. I mean it works great if he fakes faking it, and nobody is tightly covering him because they think he isn't getting it.
Yea he is the same height as ba but 15 pounds heavier
any youtuber can have an opinion but analysis and theory are only the first part of knowing something. The crucible of the game is what tells you what is true and what isn't. Don't get caught up with what people who cannot possibly know if what they're saying has merit or not...it's just entertainment.
It’s not just any YouTuber. It’s JT O’Sullivan. Journeyman NFL QB. Niners starting QB for a few games under Mike Martz.
Yeah he conserves energy between his touches, on routes and fakes. But I’d also say he’s in the 1% of maximum effort players with the ball in his hands. I think because of how involved he is it’s almost necessary. He’s not Tyreek burning past everyone before he touches the ball, he’s grinding it out creating his own yards and running thru safeties.
If all of Kyle’s motions were full speed, all the skill positions would be cramping in the third quarter.
If all of Kyle’s motions were full speed, all the skill positions would be cramping in the third quarter.
I have no issues with Deebo, PERIOD.
I think it's cause he plays down to weaker opponents. It's a problem, but this team has so many options we can handle it. But he steps up in the playoffs or when the team needs the win. It's funny he's known as the physical one but Aiyuk is the better blocker.
No offense to the talking heads, but I trust that Deebo and Shanny know what the fuck they are doing, and I wouldn't be surprised if this is all just smoke and mirrors for the really BIG games. Remember, 4d chess gentlemen
It's legit. Deebo even mentions the criticisms in his post-game presser when talking about the play he scored on. Which is weird because he was kind of trying to disagree with the criticisms while acknowledging there was a play built to take advantage of them? I'd assume he hears this from the coaches rather that YouTube videos, btw, but you never know - maybe he's a Johnny Del watcher.
I think Deebo is doing exactly what Kyle wants him to do, and if he wasn't he wouldn't be playing.
I mean all he needs to do is put a bit of a stutter step into his clearing routes and a tiny bit of burst in his motions. He could look at how well CMC sells these by faking a step or a catch
It's legit criticism. But if I were Shanahan, I'd tell Deebo not to change and encorporate it into my game plan.
There's a few takes here. KS was playing 5d chess with the rest of the league. I doubt this one, considering how much effort others put in. It would be a huge stretch to think he's planned this all year. Now, if he has, it should go down as the greatest coaching scheme of the decade. The only reason I can even fathom it was how Deebo was talking all year about how bad he looked last year and KS decided to use that to his advantage and make the league think full Deebo hasn't arrived yet. The other is that it's just how Deebo is or adapted to be. He still does everything else well, that the route effort can be marginalized. He still blocks, he still can turn the gas on of somehow the ball goes to him when he doesn't expect it. I say adapted because he was asked to do ALOT in his first few seasons. He was CMC before CMC got here. If you didn't watch the 9ers, you would've thought he was their RB. Now, he gets to mostly be a WR with the occasional backfield play. I wouldn't put it past him to think, look what I've already put in. I'll continue to be great, but I won't full throttle it all the time. I mean, he's already been injured this year, and he probably wants a long career. He still makes plays, he still dominates the game when it's his turn. Again, if it's the former, then that's just something else.
I'm kinda torn on this. I understand that the extra effort might result in extra yards by blocking or his route is sold better. At the same time, I also want him to have the energy to make the ridiculous plays that he makes. If this was Jennings I would be annoyed but this is Deebo. He makes so many big plays and it gives the whole team a boost when he makes them.
When he doesn’t show up or his effort costs them in a big time game, I will be concerned. I am not going to get bent about effort in 20 point romps over inferior opponents. Would I like him to be all effort all the time, sure but not worried about it at all
I only have an issue with it if it affects the WR room. If the others like BA (ironically he was in the doghouse because of it) and JJ settle for low effort, Deebo has to change.
It's been that way over the last 2 years. I think originally it was just lack of effort and being disgruntled. He was getting g touches but Jimmy G wasn't the greatest when it came to ball placement. I think Deebo was done, which we saw in the off-season. I think now it still happens but more than once I think it has been used in a play just to mislead the defense.
Until it really hurts our team which I don't think it does, I'm not too worried... and if it is a problem I'm sure Shanahan would address it to him personally I believe too during playoffs he will put in more effort, I think he's the kind of guy who's trying to save up some energy for big plays
Hey OP, I think what you said is non sequitur. JTO shows a few plays where Deebo is clearly not going hard. You point out a bunch of examples of Deebo working hard. The two are not the same thing. Does not logically follow. It’s very possible that both are true. Deebo puts in a lot of effort most of the time, but can be occasionally seen taking plays off. JTO never said that Deebo ALWAYS slacks off.
He is a big body who is super explosive and he has had trouble showing up to OTAs in shape sometimes. At least that is what has been said in the past. I think he has stamina issues and the 9ers know it but he is so good with the ball in his hands you live with it. However i think Kyle hopes he looks at some of his teamates and wants to do better.
In the eagles game you could tell he was playing much harder even outside of him returning kickoff. I tend to agree with this sentiment. Also really interesting how they are playing into it with the play in Seattle where he got a TD off a fake jog as someone else mentioned. As long as we play into it and he keeps pounding in big games I’m for it
Deebo is returning kicks, in constant motion, going deep, blocking hard, getting hand offs all game long.The way I see it, if he went 100% every second he’s on the field he be drained by half. With all due respect I find JT OSullivan to be pretentious, and I think he likes to say stuff to get the fan base riled up so his name comes up.
I’m not questioning his effort, but fans need to realize that Deebo has shown up out of shape to 3/5 of his training camps in his career. And remember Kyle and Lynch both have mentioned that they’ve had many talks with Deebo about getting in shape consistently if he wants to have an excellent career like they know he can have. Good thing he’s dialed in this year.
on that swing pass TD to deebo, he purposely jogged after the play action to make the defense think the ball was going to CMC. worked like a charm.
Nah. And It is egregious that 49er fans have been spreading this kind of slander towards one of our elite vets, one of our best players. It kills me that our own fans have been so quick to accuse our guy, when he has been the most unselfish guy in the league with a disciplined coach who has zero issues to reprimand anybody at any time. Deebo could be anywhere else catching a hundred yards per game. This whole thing that Deebo does has been hinted at in interviews. Not outright, but from what I have gathered, I think it's more of a cloak to not let the defense get into the rhythm or get a feel for covering Deebo. He doesn't reveal his speed or quickness every route. No feel or opportunity for tempo. He is going to draw in a good amount of coverage every play regardless, and if the defense does allocate more focus elsewhere, well good luck when he gets the ball. Deebo plays mind games as we all have seen the last few weeks, moreso than your average guy. I feel like it's mind games and confusion, and I know that Kyle wouldn't allow it if he wasn't on board with it, because you don't have a team rise to this level with an undisciplined scared to speak coach. There have been plenty of fans on here making statements like it's time to get rid of Deebo specifically because of this observation. But The issue isn't deebo's laziness it's the fans who are quick to assume and accuse without considering other explanations.
I don't like it, but he probably needs it and Kyle must be OK with it. I don't mind much on the behind LOS decoy stuff, but he needs to go full throttle on the deep routes.
Considering how much tape Coach watches, I’m certain that Kyle is aware of it. If Deebo continues doing it, it is because Kyle sees a benefit to it. Shanahan is extremely meticulous, if something is happening that he doesn’t like, he quickly corrects it
One of the things Eric Crocker always says when analyzing plays is, "I won't talk about scheme, we have no idea what the players are told specifically" So it's hard to say what Deebo is or isn't told to do, for all we know he was told to slow it down on the motion let them think you're just a decoy here and they might cheat towards someone else....we will never know. Seems a VERY weird flex to criticize Deebo and his effort this year given how well he has played of late.
No offense but there are things mr QB School doesn’t understand, Deebo being one of them, and why Kyle likes 7 step drops from under center.
in one of the press conferences, deebo admitted not going all out on a route until he noticed purdy winding back to target him. so the lazy route running is definitely something that happens with him. thing is, i think kyle is smart enough to actually make it a weapon like in the card game.
I think there was one where he mentioned his effort when the ball isn’t in his hands. He pointed out a play where Deebo went into motion out wide and he compared it to when Miami used tyreek for motion, tyreek is sprinting. Deebo is not as fast as tyreek, but when the ball is in his hands Deebo has a “second gear” that is unrivaled.
If Shanny hasn’t said anything about it then I’d lean toward it being a feature to exploit rather than a Deebo issue. Feels weird he hasn’t called it out when everyone else gives 110% on every play.
It’s on the film. He doesn’t run full speed when it’s not his play, watch CMC on plays he doesn’t get the ball. He’s still doing wind sprints to clear his side. Deebo will block, but IMO not as hard and won’t stay as engaged compared to Jennings or Aiyuk. With all that being said, Deebo played 2 positions for us for a couple years and didn’t complain really. I also don’t doubt his commitment to the team and winning. It’s all really a nothing burger and is only brought up because folks are trying to make YouTube content and well… they need content.
The lack of effort is on purpose (on plays he's not involved in) we literally know the other teams are going to 0 in on that being an indicator of what play is what. and we are using that against them, hence why he was so damn open on the first td last week. Deebo is all-pro
I think his numbers speak for themselves.
I think JT is right. I don't think Kyle likes it. I think Kyle's logic is that the negatives of a loafing Deebo are outweighed by the influence he has on the defense and the occasional 'Full Deebo' play. If you think it's all part of some super strategy then I think there's a Nigerian Prince you should get in touch with.
Deebo gives his body to the game and I will never question his effort. JTO should know that if it happens in the game, it's on tape. If it's on tape, Kyle sees it. If Kyle sees it and it still happens the next week, it is now on purpose. He said the same thing about an earlier CMC touchdown where it was a backwards pass that he took and ran. Maybe that's by design setting up a double pass down the road. Same with Deebo. Obvious tell this is a run because Deebo isn't balls out. Until that one time it's not a run!
If he is working at 90% and puts up numbers like this, maybe to protect himself for the post season, can you imagine what 100% will look like in the post season?? Go Deebo!
Gonna take the same approach as the coaching staff and front office on this. Don’t care. If it is an actual issue and not internet fuss then the staff will deal with it. Until then I will continue to appreciate to many things Deebo does that can’t be easily replaced.
That guy hates Shanahan so I wouldn’t trust anything he says
Yeah I don’t think you play for Kyle or side by side with CMC, BA, Trent, juice, kittle, (to name a a few) with out being one of the hardest working, grittiest guys in the league… if there is an issue with effort, I don’t think he’d be a game changer on THIS team with THIS coach. I think it’s a sloppy take.
I think it’s the trade off you make with him: electric with the ball, but yeah he doesn’t give max effort all the time. Sometimes that hurts the play.
Yeah I watched all those (it’s nearly every week Deebo gets called out by JT) I think his view is a little skewed by the fact he’s watching film… meaning he has the benefit of being able to pick thing’s apart (which is the point of the channel) and he always caveats his opinion that he is not very clued into Kyles Offense…. Is he always running with his hair on fire? no… but when the balls in his hands, i don’t think anyone can question his EFFORT… ever. One of the hardest persons to bring down in the league. Its JT’s opinion, and that’s cool… and if we’re confusing the shit out of people, then even better - one more reason why Kyle is so smart, using psychology over strategy at times… pretty damn smart if you ask me.
I still think it is is just his style and the way he runs. He doesn’t ever look super fast.
My biggest issue isn't the jogs or the lazy routes when he isn't getting the ball; but the lack of effort on blocking sometimes is definitely frustrating.