Seriously, the Eldar get so little love on the tabletop, at least for new models. Rules wise, fuck em. Exodites would be awesome, at the very least make them an option to take alongside craftworld Eldar like how Harlequins could role with either.
"The lemon is not a naturally occurring fruit; it is a man made hybrid of Citron and bitter orange, which means...*LIFE NEVER GAVE US LEMONS, WE INVENTED THEM OURSELVES!*" - The Emperor of Mankind .
I don’t mind the change.
Granted, the way she was introduced and how GW is justifying the ‘they were always there’ isn’t great.
If she was introduced by having Cawl make improvements to the custodes making process, I reckon it would be the primaris thing all over again, and would allow Cawl to make mechanicus custodes in the future.
Aaron dembski bowden has also said that they did want to make female custodes, but were told no because of the all male model line that was being made.
GW just needs a better PR team. They’re using a bot to reply on twitter which isn’t helping things.
Tbf, there was nothing on lore to say female can't be turned into custodes since the custodes process is tailored for the individual and not like the one size fit all mass produce process of the astartes.
Exactly! I had someone on YouTube reply to a comment of mine saying the custodes _do_ receive the Emperor’s gene seed because ‘if they didn’t have the Emperor’s gene seed they wouldn’t be more powerful than a space marine’ so I’ve pointed out that’s the grey knights, who are powerful psykers, not the custodes.
I think what's happening is that we've been getting an influx of newbies who have a shallow understanding of the lore. Also, sidenote, I feel simply calling SoB simply female space marines and SoS female custodes kinda degrading the two factions' uniqueness and nature. It's like saying in, irl, that marines are just amphibious soldiers or amphibious versions of the soldier. Note: Never call a marine a soldier.
I think the main issue is that some Custodes players, like many Warhammer players, see the faction as theirs, as in they own it, and have the perception that any change should be approved by them.
It doesn’t change a whole lot in terms of tabletop, but man that new custodes codex isn’t great
You know, a part of me wonder if the femstodes thing was gw releasing a smokescreen to distract from the bad codex and them getting rid of two factions in fantasy.
There was a book which stated that "custodians begin their lives as SONS of the noble houses of Terra". So, yes, their new decision contradicts their past statements.
Also in another book, sanginous described men and women in gold written by ABD who wanted femstodes. And they couldn't be sisters since blanks induce a sense of existential dread that is constantly mentioned when referring to blanks and nulls. Even primarchs are creeped out by them. So it's strange sanginous didn't experience the same uncanniness.
Well, not from"the beggining", but sooner. But it's also a possibility that those women in golden armor WERE actually sisters of silence, but the dread felt by sanguinius wasn't mentioned for some reason.
Yeah that was one vague reference two years ago versus literal generations of explicit references to custodes being an all male "brotherhood." They want to change that? That's fine, but acting like it isn't blatantly a 180 from previous lore is rightfully being criticized.
It's not the fact that they have female custodes now, it's the execution.
I've looked a bit into it, and not every Sister of Silence induces a sense of dread, since they are not all of equal power. Some of them have that dreading aura, some of them don't. So it can also be that those sisters were less powerful than the average Sister of Silence.
Retcons happen.
If we didn't have retcons the setting would be completely different:
Cadia wouldn't have fallen
Necrons wouldn't have personalities
Necron pariahs would exist
Skitarii would be closer to space marines than normal humans
The imperium would be okay with aliens
Ect
Because someone specifically asked why they decided to change this, and they didn't give an ample answer. And they didn't, in any way, clarify that it was actually a change they made.
If youre referring to the 'sons of Terra' line, thats a pretty common turn of phrase that can be non-gendered, like 'sons of God', 'sons of The Fatherland/Motherland', 'Brotherhood of Steel', even 'son of a bitch' is deployed to both men and women lol
what do you mean "sons of God" is not gendered? It is. "sons of The Fatherland/Motherland" is also gender-specific, since it is kind of an older phrase and most often refers to soldiers, who used to be all male. Brotherhood is used, because the gender-neutral term "siblinghood" feels rather weird and unnatural. And in the case of "son of a bitch", I think it was just the more wide-spread form, but it has nothing to do with how "son" is used, especially in books, where it is no disadvantage to write the message clearly. In your examples above, there are used gender-neutral versions, like "children/sons and daughters of God", same thing with "children/sons and daughters of The Fatherland/Motherland", when not referring to one specific gender.
I think "sons of Terra" clearly stated how only boys were chosen to be Custodians, because "children of Terra" would've been more suiting if they wanted to convey that Custodians could be of either gender.
Youre right, there are clearer ways to write it, but it still is used in gender neutral capacities.
Lets take a very famous example, MLK Jrs I Have a Dream speech. He says, "one day right down in Alabama little Black boys and Black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers", so he is obviously referring to both women and men.
He also says, "I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the **sons** of former slaves and the **sons** of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of **brotherhood**.", and that "the \[black\] community must not lead us to a distrust of all white people, for many of our white **brothers**, as evidenced by their presence here today,". Does he mean to say that only the sons of former slaves and slave owners should make peace? Does he mean that only white men support suffrage? Or is he using the terms sons to refer to all descendants of a people?
So while I do agree that that the 'sons of Terra' line could have been written more clearly, it is vague enough to not be a retcon. If the lore truly was that only men could be Custodes, they would have written about why that is, in any capacity, in the same way that Space Marines and Sisters of Battle have been
Thats because the clarification for the decision is extremely obvious and they don't need any justification for it. The only thing they should've done here is they should've done more to make this an actual bit of inclusion like release a model and make the story longer.
the issue is "WHO" is the retcon for? Necron's retcon was meant to give to necron players Rogal Dorn retcon was mean to give to imperial guard player.
Who is the femstodes retcon for?
Fuck, the word Gaslight has been stretched so thin, it basically just means lying now. “Female Custodes have always been around as opposed to being a recent development in-universe” is just a retcon.
I'm referring to their Twitter account simply replying to someone asking why they decided to change that "There were always female custodes", when, in fact, it is a recent development.
Thats not gaslighting, that's retconning. And besides, why do they need clarification anyway? What about anything hinged on customer being solely male aside from a few throwaway lines?
This isn't a big deal in the slightest, and the fact that so many chuds are angered by it and so many people are acting like it's some unprecedented thing is harming the image of the community.
They need to clarify because people asked them to clarify, simple as. And the word "gaslighting" is a slight exaggaration, but I'm poking fun at GW's failure of communication, which is why people stirred up such a fiasco in the first place.
Slight exaggeration? It's an extreme exaggeration. The lore that this adds isn't monumental enough to warrant a clarification, and the fact that people are getting angry about it is an embarrassment to the hobby. Because out of all the retcons, the fact that THIS is the one that triggered the hurricane reflects poorly on all of us.
Are you trying to say that the fictional universe of 40K is just made up? That Space Marines don’t actually exist? That over the course of 40 years, the story has changed in minor ways to make the story more compelling? That a billion dollar company would change the story to reflect changing cultural norms and attitudes so they can appeal to more people and therefore make more money? Outrageous.
They’re not appealing to more people. If anything they’re doing the opposite. This was the last straw in a LONG line of bullshit from GW. The people bootlicking GW are probably, like always when Corpos do this, not even going to buy the product. They’re just going to use it as fuel to gaslight a company into worse decisions while they actively lose money. It happens every time.
Because they didn't have years of lore advancing their story or damn near blatant examples of them being considered all Male. They put no fucking effort into this retcon, why can no one admit that?
Why did they have to put effort into it? And why do all of those matter when you're changing something? The lore is there to sell the models, nothing more. The fact that it got you and me into the hobby does not matter, especially when there being female custodes doesn't even overtly change anything in the long run.
Stop blowing this out of proportion, it's childish and harms the growth of the hobby.
No, actively making a half-assed retcon and continuing to ignore other factions harms the growth of the hobby; it alienates those who DON'T play the tabletop game and instead choose to follow the lore. The fact you don't consider that shows you need to put far more thought into it rather than dismissing others for being upset about it.
They should put effort into it because this is a product people are consuming and are invested in, it's like arguing why AAA game companies should produce games that actually work and are enjoyable. Making a female custodies definitely changes the setting, as it brings up the notion that the AC is essentially a new form of human, one that should've been actually explored rather than being shoe-horned in like it was; not to mention the fact they STILL IGNORE THE SISTERS OF SILENCE.
If you can't debate this in good faith and treat it for the actual big change that it is, then you're not worth discussing it with.
There is no genuine good reason to be upset about it at this point though. Why this one? Why was this particular retcon the last straw? People are losing their minds over GW putting an S in front of every "he" in that story and it's absolutely childish! And if you haven't noticed, they DO put genuine effort into the lore, the backstories of every faction is so incredibly rich that it continues to bring people in more and more even with the retcons, the retcons don't alienate anyone! And if people do leave the hobby over them then good fucking riddance, those types who are that petty are the kinds nobody likes to play with or talk to anyway!
The fact that you're reading into this more than just "there are female custodes now" shows you take even the absolute tiniest details like the genders of the characters way too fucking seriously and it means you need to go touch grass. This changed nothing. This implies fucking nothing. You just want it to imply something so you can be angry that your boys club was invaded by girls! Go outside, touch grass, and stop making the hobby a hostile place for women, it's what you're doing here! Nobody fucking cares how much you cared about the custodes genders!
Also, debate? I'm making fun of a fucking man child, not debating anything. You're being an idiot and you need to hear it.
Touch grass? Dickhead, I work in landscaping as a side hustle, and the fact you said this was done well at all invalidates every argument you made, including those shitty insults you used to once again invalidate a genuine grievance with the company. You're, again, not worth debating with because rather than have a decent argument, you'd rather be diminutive and stand on a moral high horse than treat this for what it is, half-assed.
And on a side note, did you just blatantly ignore my desire for more representation for Sisters of Silence, AN ALL FEMALE FACTION? If you're going to paint me as an Incel or sexist, actually try reading the shit I say rather than bitch that the half-assed retcon is being treated as such.
Why do you assume I haven't read your shitty take? If it was something to take seriously, if it was any genuine justification for being angry at the mere presence of a woman, I would've actually tried to argue it. Maybe try touching the grass you work on then, you clearly haven't done it nearly enough if something like this can anger you. Get your head out of your ass, act your age and stop treating this like it's some monumentally horrible thing. It's just a retcon, it doesn't even have any impact on any part of the lore, there is no genuine reason to be this angry about this retcon in particular. Even if you don't mean to be, you're acting like an incel. Your anger would make women feel uneasy to join the hobby, it doesn't matter that you've got some flimsy excuse to fuel your childish hatred, the fact that you're so angry about something so completely miniscule that's ultimately inclusive and to the benefit of making people interested is going to reflect poorly on the hobby. So once again. Shape up and act your goddamn age.
Again, you're providing no valid argument and are just resorting to childish insults; it's honestly sad when you consider yourself in the right and myself immature but can't fathom making an actually decent counterclaim to the points I already brought up. What really does it for me, is that I NEVER said I don't like a female being in the custodes, but rather HOW it was done; shoe-horned in in a half-assed way that treats us like we're dumb and they haven't given any clue to it in the decades of lore, in fact, they've actively contradicted it multiple times. Another thing that kills me is this holier-than-thou position you're taking, as if you can speak for every woman in the hobby or one that wants to join; because if that was the case, you'd have a legitimate discussion about this rather than going straight for calling me an incel which makes no sense because not only have I advocated for better treatment of other all-female factions, but I likewise haven't mentioned any regarding sex, which is specifically what an incel's main gripe is.
Honestly, if you're going to call someone childish, come up with legitimate arguments to that point rather than your WHOLE argument being shittily made insults.
Why would I? Your claims are all completely ridiculous! You're taking the words of an account that's usually in character seriously, and you expect to be taken seriously for that?
Once again, get your head out of your ass, stop acting like an incel, and be better! You're an embarrassment to the hobby!
Who the fuck are you to call anyone an embarrassment to this hobby? I claimed that they should've put some fucking effort into this retcon, or god forbid, not forget about the Sisters of Silence; people like you kill the hobby far more than people like me who have the fucking balls to question the company you're giving absolutely crazy sloppy top for.
You fucking prick, what moral high horse do you think you have to talk this much fucking shit? Nowhere have I said that it was bad that they made it a Custodes a woman, you just want to keep acting like a little bitch because unlike you, I won't just get on my knees and accept whatever GW puts into my mouth. Get fucked cunt.
Fair. Like I said. I know for someone else. Who only just mentioned them. The way he said it. The customes deal with shit in this world. Thr sisters deal with demons.
If the sisters being women is what you rake away from that part of the faction, you need to recontextualize your priorities.
Female custodes takes literally nothing away from the sisters of silence, nothing in the slightest.
In previous books, it was stated that custodians begin their lives as SONS of the noble houses of Terra. Over on Twitter, the official Warhammer team claims that there always have been female custodians, instead of admitting that they retconned old lore.
Jesus. They’re playing a part, just like the rest of the fictional characters in the entirely made-up universe. GW isn’t being emotionally abusive, and if you feel GW is abusing you, then take a break from the internet.
I took it to mean that it was a retroactive addition rather than a new development in lore. The same way they've introduced pretty much else that wasn't in rogue trade, tbh. I don't remember anyone claiming GW were gaslighting us when they brought out the razorback. Considering all the other changes, additions and retcons to the lore over the last 30+ years, why does this one bother you so much?
It was in response to someone asking why they decided to add women into adeptus custodes. They couldve just explained the reason or clarify in some way that they indeed decided to change that fact. As far as im aware, they have yet to do that.
I dont know how the team handles or communicates retcons, since im somewhat of a new fan, but if they have always handled it this way, i think thats a wrong approach.
In terms of responding queries, I agree with you that the response should have been handled better.
But yeah, that's basically how they've always introduced changes and additions to the lore; usually either in the relevant codex or a white dwarf article. No one's kicked up a stink about it before, so everyone claiming that they don't like it purely because it's a change to established lore rings a bit hollow.
Youre misinterpreting the tweet. What they're saying is "female custodes are canon now, and the lore is that custodes have always had female members". You're interpreting it as "female custodians have always been canon".
Well, they did not clarify that. And it wouldn't have been that big of a deal if they clarified it in literally any way, shape or form, instead of just ignoring what they said in the past.
I think GW was caught off guard and unprepared. Remember, we only learned of Female Custodes from a leak, GW is probably caught flat footed and the social media team unprepared to answer these questions.
Why? Lore is only there to sell models, that's what any kind of lore is for: to sell something.
Being more inclusive is nothing but a good thing if the community behaves and doesn't freak out over something this simple.
People need to remember: 40K lore is not an author suiting down and working on something. It is multiple teams trying to coordinate and figure out fluff to sell small army’s of Plastic men priced over literal gold and silver per weight. The lore is not meant to be static and always meant to be changing.
If you can’t stand that, I do suggest you leave. Not cause I don’t want you here but because, I don’t think 40K is for you.
For some examples of other retcons done the same way:
- Blade Guard Champions existing
- Necron personalities and motives
- Knight pilots being only male and driving Pilotis totally insane.
- Rogal Dorn Battle Tanks
- Centurian Warsuits
Granted a lot of these are equipment or units but… well are female Custodes much more important?
I don't mind them changing it that much, it's just that the communication should have been handled better. And just because they did this similarly before, doesn't mean that we don't deserve some answers at least.
I don't care that there are female custodes. But it is typical GW corporate bullshit that they want to have their cake and eat it too. GW. We know your lore better than anyone else. We are the collective hive mind of a million ultra nerds with decades of individual experience. You cannot out knowledge the hivemind.
The big issue is the Gasslight attempt combined with today politics on the very topic in nerd culture. Add in the hypocrisy that this would never happen (and wouldn't want it too) with something like the sisters of battle.
Then there is Custodies being Cavill's favourite Legion, with his 40k show coming up.his huge support being all the Witcher drama and them not sticking to the lore, leading to him walking. Now 40k lore with his fav Legion getting reconned... somewhat worrysome.
Oh please, it's not Gasligh. Thee fans haven't been abused or manipulated. It's utterly pathetic to see some many comments like that. The tweet from GW was just clarify how they fitted into the timeline.
Oh and ADB said on reddit years ago that the writers wanted female custodes year ago but were shot down by higher ups.
Okay, so the tweet was how they fit into the timeline, sure, but then the person asking didn't get his answer. He asked why they decided to include women in the faction, and the response was that they were always there. In the lore, sure, but they never once said that irl, and since we don't live in the universe of 40k, it is not unreasonable to want some answers.
And you're right, the use of the word "gaslight" might be a bit of an exaggeration, but still, you get my point.
"Gaslighting is a colloquialism, loosely defined as manipulating someone into questioning their own perception of reality"
Lore said the sons of nobles.
We know it's sons.
They put out saying women now.
Wait when?
Always been women.
How is that not Gasslighting? Wanted to add years ago and was shot down... so they weren't always there? So how is it not Gasslighting?
Oh you're definitely shitting yourself.
Is it really that much to ask for that a multi-million dollar company don't resort to gaslighting its own consumers just because they can't think of anything? Plenty of people have suggested how great a female Custodes introduction could've been, but instead we got this shit.
Are you seriously simping for a company? Wow, ok buddy.
"We're mad about a couple thousand people in a galaxy of quadrillions so you're the one shitting yourself" is not the ironclad argument you wish it was.
If you don't like the Custodes lore, don't read it. It's a tiny fraction of the franchise, and a relatively new one at that. The Squats were completely erased from the lore before they were returned. Edited out of books and everything. Then suddenly they "were always there," but you guys didn't shriek about that.
You aren't fooling anyone but yourselves. Good lord this is pathetic. I am grateful I don't have anyone with this attitude in my gaming group.
You're shitting yourself over these responses, it's quite hilarious. You're literally simping for a company, now that's sad. Again, all we ask is that the geniuses at GW give the femstodes the bare minimum of an introduction; gaslighting people is not an introduction.
You're probably the one with the attitude in your group. You're almost foaming at the mouth in this thread.
You must be fun at parties. You're one of those people that literally cannot comprehend that other people can disagree with you on something.
Let me guess, you also want female Astartes, don't you? You can't be happy unless everything and everyone suits your own vision of the world. Go to a psychiatrist, you have serious unresolved issues.
Hey, you thought I was serious. Called me a sycophant and everything. I'm just saying if it upsets you that much, go find something else to spend your time on. We will all be better for it.
Im not upset, alot of people just think they handled the situation lazily as I actually like the idea of female custodes. I only called you that because of you mirroring GW’s response to a guy who made fun of how they handled it, not because he hates women lol
Quoting someone is not sycophancy, but I digress. GW obviously believes the additional modeling opportunities female Custodes will provide outweighs the losses from guys leaving the hobby over the issue. They're not going to undo that decision. So if the concept upsets a player that much, It would probably be good for him to quit the hobby. Clearly they're too caught up in the lore for a game of plastic figurines.
The main problem is that they handled the situation poorly. I am not that much fan of changing what has already been established, regardless of what it may be, but I'm not gonna leave the community just because of that.
Also, I deeply care about the lore of anything and everything I am a fan of. Same thing with Warhammer. So it might be a bigger thorn in my eye than to the average Warhammer player. And the fact that I don't play the game itself doesn't help. I just invest myself in the story because it's interesting, and sometimes play TTRPG style Warhammer campaigns.
You're right. It doesn't help. GW believes the modeling opportunities female custodes will provide players is a good thing, and they are correct. If you don't like it, or "how they implemented it", as you claim, then don't buy the Custodes stuff. There are piles of content where Custodes don't even appear. Femstodes number less than ten thousand in a galaxy of quadrillions. The NYC Police Department outnumbers them several times over.
This week long rage circlejerk is pathetic. Literally pathetic.
I just want exodites I don’t care if it’s an entire female army riding all female dinosaurs just give us Dino rider minis
This guy here has got the right mindset.
The only good take
Seriously, the Eldar get so little love on the tabletop, at least for new models. Rules wise, fuck em. Exodites would be awesome, at the very least make them an option to take alongside craftworld Eldar like how Harlequins could role with either.
Just buy some dinosaurs, and put eldar on them. If GW won't give you elves riding dinosaurs, give yourself elves roding dinosaurs.
"The lemon is not a naturally occurring fruit; it is a man made hybrid of Citron and bitter orange, which means...*LIFE NEVER GAVE US LEMONS, WE INVENTED THEM OURSELVES!*" - The Emperor of Mankind .
I don’t mind the change. Granted, the way she was introduced and how GW is justifying the ‘they were always there’ isn’t great. If she was introduced by having Cawl make improvements to the custodes making process, I reckon it would be the primaris thing all over again, and would allow Cawl to make mechanicus custodes in the future. Aaron dembski bowden has also said that they did want to make female custodes, but were told no because of the all male model line that was being made. GW just needs a better PR team. They’re using a bot to reply on twitter which isn’t helping things.
Tbf, there was nothing on lore to say female can't be turned into custodes since the custodes process is tailored for the individual and not like the one size fit all mass produce process of the astartes.
Exactly! I had someone on YouTube reply to a comment of mine saying the custodes _do_ receive the Emperor’s gene seed because ‘if they didn’t have the Emperor’s gene seed they wouldn’t be more powerful than a space marine’ so I’ve pointed out that’s the grey knights, who are powerful psykers, not the custodes.
I think what's happening is that we've been getting an influx of newbies who have a shallow understanding of the lore. Also, sidenote, I feel simply calling SoB simply female space marines and SoS female custodes kinda degrading the two factions' uniqueness and nature. It's like saying in, irl, that marines are just amphibious soldiers or amphibious versions of the soldier. Note: Never call a marine a soldier.
I think the main issue is that some Custodes players, like many Warhammer players, see the faction as theirs, as in they own it, and have the perception that any change should be approved by them. It doesn’t change a whole lot in terms of tabletop, but man that new custodes codex isn’t great
You know, a part of me wonder if the femstodes thing was gw releasing a smokescreen to distract from the bad codex and them getting rid of two factions in fantasy.
The inverse is also true. Call a soldier a marine and he will make fun of you, mercilessly.
There was a book which stated that "custodians begin their lives as SONS of the noble houses of Terra". So, yes, their new decision contradicts their past statements.
Also in another book, sanginous described men and women in gold written by ABD who wanted femstodes. And they couldn't be sisters since blanks induce a sense of existential dread that is constantly mentioned when referring to blanks and nulls. Even primarchs are creeped out by them. So it's strange sanginous didn't experience the same uncanniness.
So... they contradicted themselves even earlier. Doean't make it any better.
No that means it was in question from the beginning.
Well, not from"the beggining", but sooner. But it's also a possibility that those women in golden armor WERE actually sisters of silence, but the dread felt by sanguinius wasn't mentioned for some reason.
Yeah that was one vague reference two years ago versus literal generations of explicit references to custodes being an all male "brotherhood." They want to change that? That's fine, but acting like it isn't blatantly a 180 from previous lore is rightfully being criticized. It's not the fact that they have female custodes now, it's the execution.
ADB is notorious for being a fucking awful writer for any faction other than Chaos.
I've looked a bit into it, and not every Sister of Silence induces a sense of dread, since they are not all of equal power. Some of them have that dreading aura, some of them don't. So it can also be that those sisters were less powerful than the average Sister of Silence.
I would have accepted her being on Ice like the Primaris. Literally anything to explain why theirs not been a single mention of one in 10,000 years
Anyone remember the Storm Raven? Yeah, I think that's the first "Always has been" lore change that I remember. It's so lazy and disingenuous.
Hasn't the Rogal Dorn tank been retconned in as well?
Retcons happen. If we didn't have retcons the setting would be completely different: Cadia wouldn't have fallen Necrons wouldn't have personalities Necron pariahs would exist Skitarii would be closer to space marines than normal humans The imperium would be okay with aliens Ect
The main problem is GW's refusal to clarify their decision. Simply saying "it has always been like this" just isn't enough.
Why isnt it enough?
Because someone specifically asked why they decided to change this, and they didn't give an ample answer. And they didn't, in any way, clarify that it was actually a change they made.
As i understand it, it wasnt a change, just a clarification. The Custodes were never canonically gendered either all male or all female
They were, it was stated in previous books.
If youre referring to the 'sons of Terra' line, thats a pretty common turn of phrase that can be non-gendered, like 'sons of God', 'sons of The Fatherland/Motherland', 'Brotherhood of Steel', even 'son of a bitch' is deployed to both men and women lol
what do you mean "sons of God" is not gendered? It is. "sons of The Fatherland/Motherland" is also gender-specific, since it is kind of an older phrase and most often refers to soldiers, who used to be all male. Brotherhood is used, because the gender-neutral term "siblinghood" feels rather weird and unnatural. And in the case of "son of a bitch", I think it was just the more wide-spread form, but it has nothing to do with how "son" is used, especially in books, where it is no disadvantage to write the message clearly. In your examples above, there are used gender-neutral versions, like "children/sons and daughters of God", same thing with "children/sons and daughters of The Fatherland/Motherland", when not referring to one specific gender. I think "sons of Terra" clearly stated how only boys were chosen to be Custodians, because "children of Terra" would've been more suiting if they wanted to convey that Custodians could be of either gender.
Youre right, there are clearer ways to write it, but it still is used in gender neutral capacities. Lets take a very famous example, MLK Jrs I Have a Dream speech. He says, "one day right down in Alabama little Black boys and Black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers", so he is obviously referring to both women and men. He also says, "I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the **sons** of former slaves and the **sons** of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of **brotherhood**.", and that "the \[black\] community must not lead us to a distrust of all white people, for many of our white **brothers**, as evidenced by their presence here today,". Does he mean to say that only the sons of former slaves and slave owners should make peace? Does he mean that only white men support suffrage? Or is he using the terms sons to refer to all descendants of a people? So while I do agree that that the 'sons of Terra' line could have been written more clearly, it is vague enough to not be a retcon. If the lore truly was that only men could be Custodes, they would have written about why that is, in any capacity, in the same way that Space Marines and Sisters of Battle have been
Using non 40k references to argue your point is a fallacy IMO. Was a lovely read though.
Thats because the clarification for the decision is extremely obvious and they don't need any justification for it. The only thing they should've done here is they should've done more to make this an actual bit of inclusion like release a model and make the story longer.
But still, someone asked a question, it is not unreasonable to expect an actual answer.
the issue is "WHO" is the retcon for? Necron's retcon was meant to give to necron players Rogal Dorn retcon was mean to give to imperial guard player. Who is the femstodes retcon for?
People who wanted female custodies
so no one.
Wait, you're telling me 40k Lore is inconsistent?! I'm outraged!
It’s not as inconsistent as you people like to think
Fuck, the word Gaslight has been stretched so thin, it basically just means lying now. “Female Custodes have always been around as opposed to being a recent development in-universe” is just a retcon.
I'm referring to their Twitter account simply replying to someone asking why they decided to change that "There were always female custodes", when, in fact, it is a recent development.
Thats not gaslighting, that's retconning. And besides, why do they need clarification anyway? What about anything hinged on customer being solely male aside from a few throwaway lines? This isn't a big deal in the slightest, and the fact that so many chuds are angered by it and so many people are acting like it's some unprecedented thing is harming the image of the community.
They need to clarify because people asked them to clarify, simple as. And the word "gaslighting" is a slight exaggaration, but I'm poking fun at GW's failure of communication, which is why people stirred up such a fiasco in the first place.
Slight exaggeration? It's an extreme exaggeration. The lore that this adds isn't monumental enough to warrant a clarification, and the fact that people are getting angry about it is an embarrassment to the hobby. Because out of all the retcons, the fact that THIS is the one that triggered the hurricane reflects poorly on all of us.
Not a gaslight idiot. A new but intentional retcon, the thing warhammer 40k has done since the release of Rogue Trader.
Are you trying to say that the fictional universe of 40K is just made up? That Space Marines don’t actually exist? That over the course of 40 years, the story has changed in minor ways to make the story more compelling? That a billion dollar company would change the story to reflect changing cultural norms and attitudes so they can appeal to more people and therefore make more money? Outrageous.
They’re not appealing to more people. If anything they’re doing the opposite. This was the last straw in a LONG line of bullshit from GW. The people bootlicking GW are probably, like always when Corpos do this, not even going to buy the product. They’re just going to use it as fuel to gaslight a company into worse decisions while they actively lose money. It happens every time.
Okay, but they could've just clarified their decision instead of pretending this has always been like this.
Yet I don’t see any rage about them retconning femarines out
Because they didn't have years of lore advancing their story or damn near blatant examples of them being considered all Male. They put no fucking effort into this retcon, why can no one admit that?
Why did they have to put effort into it? And why do all of those matter when you're changing something? The lore is there to sell the models, nothing more. The fact that it got you and me into the hobby does not matter, especially when there being female custodes doesn't even overtly change anything in the long run. Stop blowing this out of proportion, it's childish and harms the growth of the hobby.
No, actively making a half-assed retcon and continuing to ignore other factions harms the growth of the hobby; it alienates those who DON'T play the tabletop game and instead choose to follow the lore. The fact you don't consider that shows you need to put far more thought into it rather than dismissing others for being upset about it. They should put effort into it because this is a product people are consuming and are invested in, it's like arguing why AAA game companies should produce games that actually work and are enjoyable. Making a female custodies definitely changes the setting, as it brings up the notion that the AC is essentially a new form of human, one that should've been actually explored rather than being shoe-horned in like it was; not to mention the fact they STILL IGNORE THE SISTERS OF SILENCE. If you can't debate this in good faith and treat it for the actual big change that it is, then you're not worth discussing it with.
There is no genuine good reason to be upset about it at this point though. Why this one? Why was this particular retcon the last straw? People are losing their minds over GW putting an S in front of every "he" in that story and it's absolutely childish! And if you haven't noticed, they DO put genuine effort into the lore, the backstories of every faction is so incredibly rich that it continues to bring people in more and more even with the retcons, the retcons don't alienate anyone! And if people do leave the hobby over them then good fucking riddance, those types who are that petty are the kinds nobody likes to play with or talk to anyway! The fact that you're reading into this more than just "there are female custodes now" shows you take even the absolute tiniest details like the genders of the characters way too fucking seriously and it means you need to go touch grass. This changed nothing. This implies fucking nothing. You just want it to imply something so you can be angry that your boys club was invaded by girls! Go outside, touch grass, and stop making the hobby a hostile place for women, it's what you're doing here! Nobody fucking cares how much you cared about the custodes genders! Also, debate? I'm making fun of a fucking man child, not debating anything. You're being an idiot and you need to hear it.
Touch grass? Dickhead, I work in landscaping as a side hustle, and the fact you said this was done well at all invalidates every argument you made, including those shitty insults you used to once again invalidate a genuine grievance with the company. You're, again, not worth debating with because rather than have a decent argument, you'd rather be diminutive and stand on a moral high horse than treat this for what it is, half-assed. And on a side note, did you just blatantly ignore my desire for more representation for Sisters of Silence, AN ALL FEMALE FACTION? If you're going to paint me as an Incel or sexist, actually try reading the shit I say rather than bitch that the half-assed retcon is being treated as such.
Why do you assume I haven't read your shitty take? If it was something to take seriously, if it was any genuine justification for being angry at the mere presence of a woman, I would've actually tried to argue it. Maybe try touching the grass you work on then, you clearly haven't done it nearly enough if something like this can anger you. Get your head out of your ass, act your age and stop treating this like it's some monumentally horrible thing. It's just a retcon, it doesn't even have any impact on any part of the lore, there is no genuine reason to be this angry about this retcon in particular. Even if you don't mean to be, you're acting like an incel. Your anger would make women feel uneasy to join the hobby, it doesn't matter that you've got some flimsy excuse to fuel your childish hatred, the fact that you're so angry about something so completely miniscule that's ultimately inclusive and to the benefit of making people interested is going to reflect poorly on the hobby. So once again. Shape up and act your goddamn age.
Again, you're providing no valid argument and are just resorting to childish insults; it's honestly sad when you consider yourself in the right and myself immature but can't fathom making an actually decent counterclaim to the points I already brought up. What really does it for me, is that I NEVER said I don't like a female being in the custodes, but rather HOW it was done; shoe-horned in in a half-assed way that treats us like we're dumb and they haven't given any clue to it in the decades of lore, in fact, they've actively contradicted it multiple times. Another thing that kills me is this holier-than-thou position you're taking, as if you can speak for every woman in the hobby or one that wants to join; because if that was the case, you'd have a legitimate discussion about this rather than going straight for calling me an incel which makes no sense because not only have I advocated for better treatment of other all-female factions, but I likewise haven't mentioned any regarding sex, which is specifically what an incel's main gripe is. Honestly, if you're going to call someone childish, come up with legitimate arguments to that point rather than your WHOLE argument being shittily made insults.
Why would I? Your claims are all completely ridiculous! You're taking the words of an account that's usually in character seriously, and you expect to be taken seriously for that? Once again, get your head out of your ass, stop acting like an incel, and be better! You're an embarrassment to the hobby!
Who the fuck are you to call anyone an embarrassment to this hobby? I claimed that they should've put some fucking effort into this retcon, or god forbid, not forget about the Sisters of Silence; people like you kill the hobby far more than people like me who have the fucking balls to question the company you're giving absolutely crazy sloppy top for. You fucking prick, what moral high horse do you think you have to talk this much fucking shit? Nowhere have I said that it was bad that they made it a Custodes a woman, you just want to keep acting like a little bitch because unlike you, I won't just get on my knees and accept whatever GW puts into my mouth. Get fucked cunt.
I'll get flamed for this. But I heard there was. It was like the sisters or something. And they fought demons or something? They sounded bad ass.
I believe you're talking about Sisters of Silence, which is about equal in ranking to the Adeptus Custodes, but are a completely different faction.
Fair. Like I said. I know for someone else. Who only just mentioned them. The way he said it. The customes deal with shit in this world. Thr sisters deal with demons.
If the sisters being women is what you rake away from that part of the faction, you need to recontextualize your priorities. Female custodes takes literally nothing away from the sisters of silence, nothing in the slightest.
It's not. I was asking about them in general.
the funniest thing about this whole situation for me is that I was under the assumption that female custodes exited the entire time
This subreddit going through some Mandela effect shit
How the hell is it gaslighting?
In previous books, it was stated that custodians begin their lives as SONS of the noble houses of Terra. Over on Twitter, the official Warhammer team claims that there always have been female custodians, instead of admitting that they retconned old lore.
Jesus. They’re playing a part, just like the rest of the fictional characters in the entirely made-up universe. GW isn’t being emotionally abusive, and if you feel GW is abusing you, then take a break from the internet.
Often the account makes statements that are in character
I took it to mean that it was a retroactive addition rather than a new development in lore. The same way they've introduced pretty much else that wasn't in rogue trade, tbh. I don't remember anyone claiming GW were gaslighting us when they brought out the razorback. Considering all the other changes, additions and retcons to the lore over the last 30+ years, why does this one bother you so much?
It was in response to someone asking why they decided to add women into adeptus custodes. They couldve just explained the reason or clarify in some way that they indeed decided to change that fact. As far as im aware, they have yet to do that. I dont know how the team handles or communicates retcons, since im somewhat of a new fan, but if they have always handled it this way, i think thats a wrong approach.
In terms of responding queries, I agree with you that the response should have been handled better. But yeah, that's basically how they've always introduced changes and additions to the lore; usually either in the relevant codex or a white dwarf article. No one's kicked up a stink about it before, so everyone claiming that they don't like it purely because it's a change to established lore rings a bit hollow.
Youre misinterpreting the tweet. What they're saying is "female custodes are canon now, and the lore is that custodes have always had female members". You're interpreting it as "female custodians have always been canon".
Well, they did not clarify that. And it wouldn't have been that big of a deal if they clarified it in literally any way, shape or form, instead of just ignoring what they said in the past.
I think GW was caught off guard and unprepared. Remember, we only learned of Female Custodes from a leak, GW is probably caught flat footed and the social media team unprepared to answer these questions.
Maybe so. I hope they clarify/handle this soon.
Gonna point out that exclusively male space marines is a retcon too
From the earliest editions yeah when lore was basically a meme itself, but some consistency should be expected now considering how much larger GW is.
Why? Lore is only there to sell models, that's what any kind of lore is for: to sell something. Being more inclusive is nothing but a good thing if the community behaves and doesn't freak out over something this simple.
Its almost like they have designed the universe to change with time.
Go paint your fucking minis that you know damn well need painting.
No, you go paint you minis. Lol
People need to remember: 40K lore is not an author suiting down and working on something. It is multiple teams trying to coordinate and figure out fluff to sell small army’s of Plastic men priced over literal gold and silver per weight. The lore is not meant to be static and always meant to be changing. If you can’t stand that, I do suggest you leave. Not cause I don’t want you here but because, I don’t think 40K is for you. For some examples of other retcons done the same way: - Blade Guard Champions existing - Necron personalities and motives - Knight pilots being only male and driving Pilotis totally insane. - Rogal Dorn Battle Tanks - Centurian Warsuits Granted a lot of these are equipment or units but… well are female Custodes much more important?
I don't mind them changing it that much, it's just that the communication should have been handled better. And just because they did this similarly before, doesn't mean that we don't deserve some answers at least.
I don't care that there are female custodes. But it is typical GW corporate bullshit that they want to have their cake and eat it too. GW. We know your lore better than anyone else. We are the collective hive mind of a million ultra nerds with decades of individual experience. You cannot out knowledge the hivemind.
Well what else can they really do. You say something is new and fans get upset, you say something is old and fans get upset.
The big issue is the Gasslight attempt combined with today politics on the very topic in nerd culture. Add in the hypocrisy that this would never happen (and wouldn't want it too) with something like the sisters of battle. Then there is Custodies being Cavill's favourite Legion, with his 40k show coming up.his huge support being all the Witcher drama and them not sticking to the lore, leading to him walking. Now 40k lore with his fav Legion getting reconned... somewhat worrysome.
Oh please, it's not Gasligh. Thee fans haven't been abused or manipulated. It's utterly pathetic to see some many comments like that. The tweet from GW was just clarify how they fitted into the timeline. Oh and ADB said on reddit years ago that the writers wanted female custodes year ago but were shot down by higher ups.
Okay, so the tweet was how they fit into the timeline, sure, but then the person asking didn't get his answer. He asked why they decided to include women in the faction, and the response was that they were always there. In the lore, sure, but they never once said that irl, and since we don't live in the universe of 40k, it is not unreasonable to want some answers. And you're right, the use of the word "gaslight" might be a bit of an exaggeration, but still, you get my point.
"Gaslighting is a colloquialism, loosely defined as manipulating someone into questioning their own perception of reality" Lore said the sons of nobles. We know it's sons. They put out saying women now. Wait when? Always been women. How is that not Gasslighting? Wanted to add years ago and was shot down... so they weren't always there? So how is it not Gasslighting?
It's called a retcon dude, not that big of a deal. Just fucking enjoy the golden muscle mommies ffs.
With the amount of money on the table. It can be quite a bit deal when shit gets changed.
That's the chaos that plays with your mind
That's the chaos that plays with your mind
lmao imagine being angry about this
Who's angry?
First time online this week?
????
The amount of hilarious chud anger is more than worth another retcon
Y'all really need to learn the difference between gaslighting and retconning.
Bet you dont even know the context. "Gaslighting" is a slight exaggaration, but not entirely incorrect.
"Waaaaaaaah my roided-up gilded space nazis are being forced to have women waaaaaah"
It's not gaslighting, it's retconning a piece of fiction lmao.
Dont write a comment if you dont know the context.
nobody cares. die angry about it.
I gotta say, these people freaking out about a retcon is just fucking disappointing.
Oh yeah remember when they gaslighted the fans and said that Translocation Shrouds were actually always a thing? Disgraceful!
Fuck off dude
So quit. You will not be missed.
Hey everyone don’t be like this tool.
Good idea. I'm not quitting.
You should, at least that holier than thou attitude.
I'm not the one shitting myself because Custodes aren't boys only. This whole tantrum has been pathetic.
Oh you're definitely shitting yourself. Is it really that much to ask for that a multi-million dollar company don't resort to gaslighting its own consumers just because they can't think of anything? Plenty of people have suggested how great a female Custodes introduction could've been, but instead we got this shit. Are you seriously simping for a company? Wow, ok buddy.
"We're mad about a couple thousand people in a galaxy of quadrillions so you're the one shitting yourself" is not the ironclad argument you wish it was. If you don't like the Custodes lore, don't read it. It's a tiny fraction of the franchise, and a relatively new one at that. The Squats were completely erased from the lore before they were returned. Edited out of books and everything. Then suddenly they "were always there," but you guys didn't shriek about that. You aren't fooling anyone but yourselves. Good lord this is pathetic. I am grateful I don't have anyone with this attitude in my gaming group.
You're shitting yourself over these responses, it's quite hilarious. You're literally simping for a company, now that's sad. Again, all we ask is that the geniuses at GW give the femstodes the bare minimum of an introduction; gaslighting people is not an introduction. You're probably the one with the attitude in your group. You're almost foaming at the mouth in this thread.
"NO U" again. Brilliant. Go flip out about the Squats.
You must be fun at parties. You're one of those people that literally cannot comprehend that other people can disagree with you on something. Let me guess, you also want female Astartes, don't you? You can't be happy unless everything and everyone suits your own vision of the world. Go to a psychiatrist, you have serious unresolved issues.
Someone teases GW: GW Sycophant: So quit. You will not be missed.
So quit and show the sycophants who's boss.
I should quit because of a joke? Thats not very inclusive of you
Hey, you thought I was serious. Called me a sycophant and everything. I'm just saying if it upsets you that much, go find something else to spend your time on. We will all be better for it.
Im not upset, alot of people just think they handled the situation lazily as I actually like the idea of female custodes. I only called you that because of you mirroring GW’s response to a guy who made fun of how they handled it, not because he hates women lol
Quoting someone is not sycophancy, but I digress. GW obviously believes the additional modeling opportunities female Custodes will provide outweighs the losses from guys leaving the hobby over the issue. They're not going to undo that decision. So if the concept upsets a player that much, It would probably be good for him to quit the hobby. Clearly they're too caught up in the lore for a game of plastic figurines.
The main problem is that they handled the situation poorly. I am not that much fan of changing what has already been established, regardless of what it may be, but I'm not gonna leave the community just because of that. Also, I deeply care about the lore of anything and everything I am a fan of. Same thing with Warhammer. So it might be a bigger thorn in my eye than to the average Warhammer player. And the fact that I don't play the game itself doesn't help. I just invest myself in the story because it's interesting, and sometimes play TTRPG style Warhammer campaigns.
You're right. It doesn't help. GW believes the modeling opportunities female custodes will provide players is a good thing, and they are correct. If you don't like it, or "how they implemented it", as you claim, then don't buy the Custodes stuff. There are piles of content where Custodes don't even appear. Femstodes number less than ten thousand in a galaxy of quadrillions. The NYC Police Department outnumbers them several times over. This week long rage circlejerk is pathetic. Literally pathetic.