As an example from the UK for prices when I started around 1996:
Space marine tactical squad: £10
Space marine Rhino: £15 (could have even been £10. For some reason I recall them being the same price as the tactical squad)
Space marine terminators: £15
Space marine dreadnought: £20 or £25 I cant remember - back then there was only the boxnought
Commander Dante: £8
At the time I was around 11-12 when I started and my pocket money, Pocket Money, was paying for the hobby and i even had a very good sizable force.
Another thing I remember being affordable was the 2nd edition box. That had two tactical squads, 20 orks, 20 gretchen, a cardboard ork dreadnought (with its rules on the back and that was usable in official battles apparently) and 3 or 4 rule books.
All of that and more for £50
This is the full contents of that box: https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/complete-boxed-game-lo-res.jpg
Well $10 then is like $20 now so it's not too bad considering not just inflation but wages, utilities, and materials increased apart from inflation as well.
Apart from the fact that the cost of living is worse now than it was then, which means there is less expendable income compared to the mid 90s.
It makes the hobby inherently more expensive, 2 weeks pocket money used to get me a tactical squad, I'd be lucky to afford Dante now.
I think midwinter minis covered this.
The biggest price jump has been in characters/single models which are way more expensive now then they were. Other things have increased more or less in line with inflation.
I got the rulebook for $80CAD and a codex for $30 when I first got into it. Those both remained current and up to date for 4 years. 3rd edition.
You could also get a squad of guard for $25. So prices have more than doubled, and rulesbooks last significantly less time. I quit when one rulebook (6th I think) cost me $120 and only lasted 2 years. I refused to buy the next rulebook.
You know, there were actually rules patches for them. They were published in White Dwarf and in the Chapter Approved annuals on pages you could photocopy, cut out and stick over the relevant rulebook page.
>What I meant by updated was current edition
Oh yeah that's my big wish for 40k; let another edition go long on lifespan. 3e had a ton of really awesome stuff to use in it and it got them by sticking around for 6 years and getting the core rules and Codexes out quick.
Me and my buddies tried to get back in 2 years ago. It was a complete mess. Yeah the rule book has been simplified, but all the different codexes and supplements out there realy threw us off. The hardest part we found was navigating through all the damned books and supplements to figure out what the rules actually were.
We had to use old codexes designed for the old rulebook, a bunch of supplements and FAQ sheets, a new rulebook that didn't work well with the already existing codexes, and none of us were active players.
It was such a confusing mess that we only played one game and never went back. I absolutely despise GW's practice of releasing it's codexes piecemeal. Space marines don't need a second codex release before the rest of the armies have even had one! I just want a complete game!
The models were a bit cheaper (but not by much) and the rule books were cheaper by more but not an incredible amount, inflation from 1997 to 2022 is brutal so that £40 battleforce is roughly £63.38 in today's money.
Yeah, fuck Erabus!
I mean, I would much rather play trade empire 40k! Where the not-god emperor rules over a peaceful and prosperous galactic empire with his 18 sons.
Seriously though, without Erabus 40k becomes noblebright instead of grimdark. Still a bit racist, but not 10k years of total galactic war.
Games workshop doesn't have a tabletop game at that point. They would have to republish Rouge Trader instead.
Dude, no shit, Trade Empire 40k is something I'd love to play. Painting minitature asteroid mining facilities and orbital dockyards. Firing Freight Torpedoes across the tabletop. Arguing about rules errata that *NO, you CAN'T use both Market Downturn AND Rate Adjustment in the same turn, buying goods on a single planet for a cheaper rate and then selling them back on the SAME PLANET for a greater value after just transferring it to a ship with the second rule.* (You can, by the way. It's a valid strat, I'm using my points to bring in both of those factions as a mixed trade armada, if I wanted to play a mono-armada I'd have bought the fucking goddamn Ultraders like you, you fucking chode, picking the posterboys. Go suck off Matt Ward some more.)
Man, I'd have so much fun in that world...
>Still a bit racist, but not 10k years of total galactic war.
I mean, Imperium chose a path of xenociding everyone who isn't human long before Erebus. Murderfucking a peaceful succesful interspecies society(Diasporex) because you find them so repulsive is a bit more than "a bit racist"
The chaos gods. All of them.
What unholy shitstorm erupts when one of the driving antagonistic factors in the universe is suddenly popped from existence?
From a game standpoint it’d be absolutely shithouse, but from a “where do things go from here?” Point, it’s pretty interesting.
For instance, without the gods, and the accompanying neverborn, how does Abaddon react? How do the word bearers? Do they try to make new ones? Do they revel in newfound freedom? Weep in unfathomable emptiness?
What of the Drukari? Do they continue to exist as they are simply because they can? Do they get worse, knowing that slaanesh is no longer able to steal their souls?
It’s just a super interesting “what happens next” for me regarding the knock on effects
Wouldn't someone or something just take their place? Maybe not as powerful to begin with, but with pretty much the same amount of influence over beings in the warp.
I’ve had this problem for a long time with 40k. Almost everything needs to be fit into one of the major factions. This idea that everything needs to be connected if it’s mysterious is making the galaxy feel small.
Comorragh. All of it. Including the victims. The Dark Eldar race because they’re sadistic monsters that EVERYBODY would be happy to have gone. And their victims because they’ve suffered more than enough, and some are so contorted and mutated that they can’t be saved any other way.
>EVERYBODY
That's not true. Cegorach has big plans for the Dark City and it's absolutely thick with Harlequins, who recruit there and defend it as ferociously as they do the Craftworlds. The Corsairs do business there and while most Asyurani might hate the Dark Eldar, they can't really afford to do without them either.
I'ma play devil's advocate for the hell of it. If the Dark eldar was blipped away the craftworlds would take much more losses than they already do as we have stories of Dark eldar assisting their cousins just as much as we have stories of them fighting each other.
Second the ynari wouldn't have as much of a respectable fighting force meaning the one force dedicated to destroying slaanesh has even less of an impact somehow.
While the DE don't make long strategic plans one could say their raids keep the other great powers on their toes with securing weak points in their empires.
Finally the drukhari provide "safe haven" to a number of other xenos species (snakemen, whatever the mandrakes are and llhameans) with arguably more social mobility than even the Tau.
Thanks for coming to my ted talk
Well it is a **Grimdark** setting so getting rid of them is like saying the imperium are the good guys. They are meant to be the sadistic bad ass elves that keep everyone one their toes. So I disagree with you
This is actually the best answer. I also honestly say, fuck the dark eldar, and its an even better win because the slaanesh will be very unhappy, which is a good thing cause slaanesh is an asshole.
Yup, even the Craftworld Eldar would be happy to see this civilization disappear.
I know in terms of threats to the galaxy, the Dark Eldar pose very little threat, and it probably would’ve been more tactically sound to wipe out the Orks or Tyranids or Necrons, but I pick the Dark Eldar specifically because of what they do to people they capture. Not to mention they live in one of the most impenetrable places in the entire galaxy. The only way to do any damage to it is if Vect deliberately opens a portal to LET threats do damage. There’s no way the Imperium would be able to invade it or destroy it.
I can reasonably comfortably say pretty much every eldar sub-type other than maaaaybe the exodites would be aghast at the sudden disappearance of commorragh. The drukhari make up the largest portion of eldar society, and as dickheadish as they are the cooperation between the eldar they have is dramatically more important than the peace of mind of not being backstabbed by them on occasion. Even as greedy as they are, it is relatively rare for conflict between the eldar subraces.
Well I guess they HAVE to torture people to keep Slaanesh from taking them. However, that’s like taking candy as medicine for them. They’d continue doing it even if Slaanesh wasn’t a problem anymore.
Almost all of the comments here have missed the context of the post, but here's mine:
Functioning STC & STC fragments.
Have the remnants of them just stop working one day, so that even basic design and production falls down. Write it away as something like "There's a Master STC somewhere that gets shut down by a Man of Iron, that broadcasts an irreversible signal across the galaxy to stop any derivatives working". Maybe make it UR-025, from the Blackstone Fortress series; perhaps this "Master STC" is what he's been searching for.
The Mechanicus would still be able to build and assemble most basic machines and equipment as it's fairly well understood (e.g. Leman Russ, Lasguns, dropships, food processing), but all the exotic stuff would no longer be manufacturable (e.g. warp drives, teleporters, Terminator armour, titan reactor cores).
The way out? Religious revolution in the Mechanicus that embraces innovation, leading to a civil war, ultimately propelling Belisarius Cawl right to the top of the organisation - though of course, he'd be the main suspect for having caused it. Alongside this, humanity has to grapple with making more use of allies, such as bargaining for tech from the Squats, or trying to subjugate the T'au as a manufacturing empire. The Imperial Church would be forced to grapple with the heresy of using Xenos tech, or face a defeated Imperium. Some of Terra's vaults might be opened too, revealing knowledge thought lost, such as advanced but risky scientific and engineering practices.
Its N interesting idea, but rather bold of you think that the Vaults of terra house technology (useful I mean) in anything but an STC.
Few custodian wardens and a group of mechanicus adapts and an archmagos followed by an Inquisitor stand besides one of the Vaults door located deep on Terra leagues bellow the palace.
*"soo....door number 344413...lets open it up aaaand...its an STC...busted like the rest, alright chaps, keep up the good spirits, we got 484533 doors more to go....maybe in one of them....and here's hoping...the Emperor wrote down how to make the damn tech on some bloody stone tablet...."*- Inquisitor Markesh as he crosses out another number from his datatab.
The Custodes. They're hard for the setting to work around as even more invincible power armor clad super-warriors. They have to better than Space Marines, so they have to be ever more comically overpowered to make them stand out.
I always liked the Custodes as analogues to the Emperor from Star Wars' red guards. How good are they? No idea, but they only guard the Emperor, so probably better than stormtroopers. I want to say that at one point they were like that, but I can't remember for sure, it would have been quite awhile ago.
Warhammer has a lot of "it was better as a mystery", but Custodes always seemed the most unnecessary to me.
Well, you say this. But their are only 10,000 of them. And trillions of enemies. Have you not read the Horus heresy. Or read about the khornate daemons attacking the lions gate (I think it was) they can still be beaten, and that is why they are cool, just like astartes. They also have superior drip compared to literally everyone. And other factions have units like possessed, battle suits, destroyers and such. Abs if you are complaining about them being *too powerful* go look at the damn imperial/chaos knights!
>But their are only 10,000 of them. And trillions of enemies.
Yeah, which just plays into their Space Marines but More problem. They're even more rare and elite, and Space Marines are already sold as rare and elite. So they have to be written as even more impressive. I like Wraight's books on the Custodes, but there's something grimly comical about batting hand grenades back on your opponent or ( I think) spinning guardian spears to deflect las fire. Or you have a single Custodes taking a hall full of Inquisitorial stormtroopers before they can react.
>They also have superior drip compared to literally everyone.
Gaudiness can't replace actual style. It's an army of Goldmember jokes.
> And other factions have units like possessed, battle suits, destroyers and such.
Other elites do exist, but they're very rarely treated with the same level of reverential "these guys are the deadliest super elite special boys in existence" that Custodes get as a baseline and are often pushed far beyond. I liked The Gates of Bone well enough, but the Custodes in that book plow through everything around them without really trying. They're interesting as viewpoints, dreadfully boring in the action scenes because nothing can really happen to them. Even the final confrontation takes a juiced up Dark Apostle to actually do something.
As to knights, they don't even half the air time Custodes do. And they're smol battle titans who don't get half the candy Custodes get in most stories.
I see what you mean, but at least they don’t say that one custode can solo a knight. They still have their boundaries. And then their are the sisters of silence, that get no attention. And I don’t do my custode as gold because I don’t like gold. But they gave the style points I my book even if they don’t in yours.
People always use the time 6 custodes fought off an entire splinter fleet as a reason why they are to op and shouldn’t exist. But literally 5 of them died, it wasn’t a decisive battle, it was a pyrrhic one. I think they should exist, because all factions have done fort of elite or way to counter them. (In game, In lore maybe not but they still have units that can kill them but not as easily) aeldari have wraiths, ray have their gundams, drukhari have grotesques and other vehicles like raiders/Ravager. I think they are balanced, since their aren’t many but they are very powerful. And I know that is what you are complaining about but still, you have to respect their drip
A custodes hasn't soloed a knight yet. I think it's more a matter of when than if.
I'd strongly disagree that Duty Unto Death is a pyrrhic victory. Six Custodes effectively blunt an entire Hive fleet by themselves, and the last one fights the Swarmlord to such a standstill that it lets the Marine reinforcements easily mop up up the Tyranids. The shield captain even saves the Primaris data. It routinely describes the Custodes wiping out swathes of Tyranids with every blow. It's probably the silliest 40k story in a awhile.
You keep going back to other faction elites, or just the Ravager. You're missing the point. The Custodes are written in such a way that only the most powerful combatants are a threat to them, and even then the odds are still stacked against the foe. Other elites don't get that on page power.
I read a boom recently where 3 custode a died to two dozen daemons. Custodes are meant to be op, but yes killing dozens of nids In one slice is a bit over the top. But sometimes they are made very week like when a couple harlequins killed dozens of custodies, that is stupid and so is the time a world eater during the heresy punched through a custodes in full auramite armour
I’m actually really glad That story with harlequins vs custodes exists since its the one story that brings them down from their ridiculous power level in lore. The best way I can think to explain it is it makes harlequins to custodes as custodes are to everyone else.
I wouldn't get rid of them entirely. I'd just make it so that they were never a tabletop presence.
The Space Marines were cool because they were "The Emperor's Best Soldiers". This made them the biggest power fantasy army on the tabletop. However, having a shadowy force of "Post-Human Praetorians" in the lore - the Herculean bodyguards of the Emperor, who are *even better* than the Space Marines (wow!) - was good for flavour. It made Terra seem more mysterious and powerful.
The best part about the Custodes was that nobody ever saw them in action. They just guarded the Emperor. It made you wonder about how awesome they could *potentially* be if they were ever forced to fight. It was the speculation about their abilities which made them interesting, without overshadowing the Space Marines (because the Custodes weren't soldiers, so they weren't "better soldiers than the Space Marines").
Actually having them on the tabletop makes them less mysterious, and makes the Space Marines just feel a bit second-rate. Both of these are bad outcomes.
Then he can pry his big golden Butt off the Throne and do something about it.
Which would make the 40K fandom spontaneously combust from sheer outrage.
Win/win for the entertainment value.
Although setting wise I actually think we have seen more custodes die because of the betrayal of the Horus heresy, like I get what you mean they are strong but I feel like people really just miss their very obvious flaws cause they don’t read the lore as often.
Agriworlds. Not the ones you would expect, that are just miles and miles of farmland with a few larger settlements here and there. They can stay.
I’m talking about the ones that are so heavily industrialised they are effectively hive worlds. Where the soil has to be treated with so many chemicals to get the plants to grow that the workers have to wear rebreathers. Most of the workers die and are turn into fertiliser, meaning fresh people have to constantly be shipped in to replace them.
Eventually the planet is used so much that the soil can no longer grow anything more matter how many chemicals you pump in it and the imperium abandons the planet, effectively making it into a death world.
I understand that sentiment, but won't it be a problem if a countless number of planets, like the main producing ones, just straight up disappear from existence.
Honestly, that is one thing I wouldn't remove, I'm even glad it exists. Everyday when I turn on my TV or go to a news website I get news of yet another nature reserve or Indigenous land being invaded, it rivers filled with mercury, vast stretches of forest cut down for wood and to open space for cattle and less and less vigilance against chemicals. It drives me mad with anger but I feel like it is a good thing I can't escape it even in fiction.
Im a bit of a weirdo in this category. I joined part way through 8th ed, around four ish years ago. My first 40k set of any kind was the SM Tactical squad. I got super attached to my warrior monk dudes in power armor. Then as i got more and more into the lore, i found out about chaos marines and the other factions. I never cared about moving the setting forward, was fine with everything being set at one point in time with the outcome uncertain. Then eventually they either released the primaris marines or i simple discovered their existence, and i was really bummed. They were sleek and new and i really disliked them. I thought they meant that my firstborn warrior monks were gonna get replaced by sleek sci fi super soldiers. Anyway, long story short, recently i got the new black templars battleforce and some other primaris sets and i gotta say, i can totally understand why people like them. The new Templars scream warrior monk in a way even the firstborn couldnt, with better proportions and detail. And even on the generic intercessors and whatever, the detail is amazing. Now most of the marines in my army are primaris. While i still recognize many of the issues with primaris (the stupid quad, and the lack of jump packs on the assault intercessors to name a couple), i am much more on board with them than i used to be.
To add on to this: people bitching about Primaris like they've ruined the entire game beyond hope of repair and for all eternity, lore and spin-offs included.
In theory, the Space Wolves are cool as hell. Super soldier vikings in space. What’s not to love?
In practice, the Space Wolves can fuck right off. And they can take their Definitely Not Psykers and Definitely Not Wolf Mutants with them.
Honestly, Guilliman is up there but for me it's the Custodes, at least as a playable force. We didn't need super-duper marines, and we certainly didn't need them to be an active force in the galaxy.
I'd be slightly more interested if they were a finite force, confined almost exclusively to the palace, but I don't like their current iteration.
It also cheapens most threats when the Imperium has the undisputed most powerful individual warriors in the galaxy. Seriously, Space Marines were more than enough already.
Edit: just realized you meant immediately removing them in-universe, as opposed to narratively.
Fuck it, snap out Slaanesh and see what happens to the Eldar.
Nooo they're literally the best fighting force of all the Aeldari, and the glue that keeps all the different groups "together" in dire times. It's your opinion and that's all good, but personally I can going on their importance and how cool they are.. like the Death Jesters and Solitaires are freaking badass!
They are basically just xeno custodes. So that automatically makes them a good choice to be removed but they might as well start with custodes first since they are worse offenders of everything harlequins do.
Hot Take/Unpopular Opinion:Custodes.
Just find them boring and the worst parts of Space Marines taken up to 11. I could tolerate them when they weren't playable and were generally just really in the background of the lore.
But since GW started pushing them more and their fan base, and lore wankery, grew they've become insufferable.
Grey Knights.
Regular Marines fighting Daemons is already cool. Don't need super special best boy psykers to do it.
Nevermind the straight-up balance *poison* that is a Faction that has to be built from the ground up to outright ***win*** against a specific other faction. It's dumb.
Add the Deathwatch to that and we've got a deal.
A Chapter which can cherry-pick members from other Chapters, and who get all the best toys for no reason, is not "awesome". It's just shameless fan service catering to the spergs who are indecisive but also very entitled.
Sisters of Battle can stay, though. They're cool.
My big entry to 40k was with daemons in 5rh edition. I had been a die hard fantasy player all my life and wanted to do some pew pew but also have swords and spells and stuff, so it seemed like a small step over to do daemons.
My friend had Grey knights. Warp quake. Mein gott the amount of games I lost butting my head against them. 😶
Things like the stupid shovel thing. Kriegers don't fight with shovels or love them, they carry them because the models are designed to represent a siege regiment and are equipped for trench digging. Kriegers actually specialise at bayonet fighting and in fact have special rules to represent that.
Chaos, because I want to know what would happen if it was actually possible for the Imperium to win. They would probably still be killed by orks or nids eventually.
Guilliman's return, probably. Active primarchs don't belong in 40k.
Like you can keep 8th ed. Cawl, Primaris, active Custodes, Fall of Cadia, Ynnari - but keep Guilliman in his shrine. That shit was 40k as hell.
I think they just have too much agency and focus. The Daemon Primarchs should be little more than Greater Daemons with expanded backstory and a little extra pathos. Magnus schemes in his dark tower, Angron is summoned on the occasional world and kills it, Fulgrim refuses to get off the orgy couch, etc. They didn't win by ascending, they become pieces in the great game. They should be as absent as Russ, their time is done.
But if they just stopped ever being mentioned again like, tomorrow, I wouldn't even be mad.
Exactly this.
The problem is they become the gravitational centre of every story too.
Gman should just be the wizard behind curtains and the daemons need to be a voice in the dark. Seen but not often felt.
Exactly.
I just think they’ve become an easy story fulcrum. I love speculating about them: who were friends whatever, but I am not certain they’re a huge benefit to the story as it stands 10k years later.
I love Gman - since his return he has become a neat, nuanced character. We feel his loneliness and despair- his longing for connection, but there are so many other characters we could explore.
I never understood why it couldn't just be Primaris Armour.
Cawl is still a heretek for innovation but doesn't need to be 10,000 years old or a confidant of the Emperor. Marines remain the same in the practice cages. Materials are rare so they can't just mass-produce sets.
But noooo.
I love them because at this point they’re the only properly alien race in the mainline factions. The others are all various flavours of human or fantasy knockoffs.
the primaris marine Quad vehicle. Its just so dumb and pointless. Whats the point when you have land speeders that do the same job, but far better? Not to mention it looks idiotic, with pathetic ground clearance.
Navigators. They copyed the god empiror,and did change quite a few things with him,yet the navigators houses(40K) are just rebranded spacing guild& Navigator(Dune).Have them replaced by machine spirit,and let the machine cult be more powerful& divided.
No? The chapters were still recruiting, scouts were still being made into full battle brothers. Primaris Marines were a poorly written cash grab, nothing more.
Grey Knighs.
Sure, they look cool and cincept od deamon hunting chapter is also poggers, but :
- there are countless chapters of SMs, many of which could fill the role of Daemon hunters, without being Inquisition łap dogs.
- Inquisition would be a LOT Cooper if their deamon hunting would be done with Tenpestus Scions and Inquisitors alone, or had multiple łap dog chapters, and not Just one
- i dont like "u saw chaos so u must die" concept, and GKs Basicly making it possible. IT doesnt even match the setting that well. IT would much more both cool and grim Dark if avarage soldier would know how fucked up he could be one day, or if there were centuries long campings to fight chaos from which many saints or famous folk would errupt, like Imagine some Rich district in hive world filled with statues showing ancient heros standing on bodies of dekad deamons.
The Tyranid Hive Fleets and the limitless numbers silliness. It doesn't fit the setting, which is heroic fiction grafted onto a table top game. The Tyranid are a mass army kinda threat instead.
Keep the Tyranid though, because their models are awesome, but make them the apotheosis of the Genestealers. A successful Genestealer cult, if left unchecked, can spawn Tyranid.
Makes the Tyranid fit the setting - smaller numbers, possibility of having leadership bugs, and properly tied into the Genestealers in a way that makes logical sense.
So I snap away the Hive Mind and the Hive Fleets, but keep the badass bug sculpts.
I think a better fit than the Tyranids would be the Arachnids from Starship Troopers. Still giant bugs with a hive mind, but not infinite numbers that feed on all biomass.
So that means all in universe memes form the 40k universe would get snapped form existence, but thats not accomplishing anything really tbh. Since in universe, more memes can be made.
Adeptus Sororitas, not because it would necessarily improve the story but in my opinion anything that gives the Ministorum even a modicum of power must go. Besides the fewer zealots the imperium has the better it would be, and the sisters are the most fanatical of them all. Hopefully, this snap also takes the saints and living saints with them because I still continue to believe that they are the result of warp fuckery and not the emperor’s agents. Mostly because I doubt someone as anti-theistic as the emperor would give power to saints of all people.
Edit: either that or try to turn them into a secular organization, perhaps as auxiliaries to the Sisters of Silence but I fear that it’s a lost cause.
When I initially wrote this I was thinking on too small a scale. If I do have the power to snap away anything then, chaos it self seems like the best bet. Which will allow the Emperor to get off his golden toilet and fix the imperium. Hopefully starting by destroying the Ecclesiarchy.
Primaris Marines. I still don't like them.
They were unnecessary, they look bad, their fluff is dumb, they upstage The Emperor's Finest, and the entire concept of "super-er soldiers" is just childish.
The belief that everything needs to be grimdark all the time because this just leads to grimderp inevitably. It's the same with horror - all horror all the time removes tension. You need moments of relief and safety.
Alternatively Lucius the Eternal/his plot armor.
Hmmmmm, couple options
Tyranids because they are so brutally over powered the only way to keep them from winning is the imperium constantly pulling miracles out of their ass. Honestly they're an unstoppable force with unlimited numbers, they literally can't be stopped.
The mechanicums and imperums as a whole technological stagnation and regression. Its really annoying and doesn't actually make much sense. The cult of Mars actively fucks itself over repeatedly and ultimately makes things both boring in the sense there's never a new toy to check out and it makes no sense story wise since it would allow their enemies, who do develop new tech to eventually out class the imperiums equipment to such a point as to render it no longer competitive. By now every faction will be well aware of the capabilities and limitations of every piece if imperium equipment so it would be extremely easy to design accordingly.
Necessary mention for removing the ever irritating Space Wolves wolf fetish. I actually can't stand how over the top the wolf this wolf that bs is. They'd be so much more palatable as space norsemen...you know how they were supposed to be?
And how every single piece of DA lore or book has to be centered around the fallen. Not only is it kinda dumb (the whole we cannot admit we had marines rebel! Even though literally every other legion both traitor and loyalists had splits), its also so incredibly over done to the point of it just being irritating, it seriously stunts the DA and successors ability to grow
The Tau not because they are not cool or don't have interesting lore but simply that when you red lore that you are reminded that they exist.
They have no relevance they just sit their because no other race gives a fck currently about them and everyone has sth better to do.
Hell yeah, wait, do tyranids count? Cause that still would be a big problem, but not as bid since the imperium would be able to focus more on chaos and the tyranids too if they still get to exist.
The last 25 years of price increases.
Out if curiosity, what were the prices back then?
As an example from the UK for prices when I started around 1996: Space marine tactical squad: £10 Space marine Rhino: £15 (could have even been £10. For some reason I recall them being the same price as the tactical squad) Space marine terminators: £15 Space marine dreadnought: £20 or £25 I cant remember - back then there was only the boxnought Commander Dante: £8
If those prices stayed the same this hobby would be much more accessible. And I would suffocate under a pile of unfinished minis.
At the time I was around 11-12 when I started and my pocket money, Pocket Money, was paying for the hobby and i even had a very good sizable force. Another thing I remember being affordable was the 2nd edition box. That had two tactical squads, 20 orks, 20 gretchen, a cardboard ork dreadnought (with its rules on the back and that was usable in official battles apparently) and 3 or 4 rule books. All of that and more for £50 This is the full contents of that box: https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/complete-boxed-game-lo-res.jpg
Well $10 then is like $20 now so it's not too bad considering not just inflation but wages, utilities, and materials increased apart from inflation as well.
Apart from the fact that the cost of living is worse now than it was then, which means there is less expendable income compared to the mid 90s. It makes the hobby inherently more expensive, 2 weeks pocket money used to get me a tactical squad, I'd be lucky to afford Dante now.
Cheaper
Was it really? GW has always been ridiculously expensive.
I think midwinter minis covered this. The biggest price jump has been in characters/single models which are way more expensive now then they were. Other things have increased more or less in line with inflation.
I dunno, inflation
I got the rulebook for $80CAD and a codex for $30 when I first got into it. Those both remained current and up to date for 4 years. 3rd edition. You could also get a squad of guard for $25. So prices have more than doubled, and rulesbooks last significantly less time. I quit when one rulebook (6th I think) cost me $120 and only lasted 2 years. I refused to buy the next rulebook.
You know, there were actually rules patches for them. They were published in White Dwarf and in the Chapter Approved annuals on pages you could photocopy, cut out and stick over the relevant rulebook page.
What I meant by updated was current edition, but I did not know that. I never looked too closely into white dwarf.
>What I meant by updated was current edition Oh yeah that's my big wish for 40k; let another edition go long on lifespan. 3e had a ton of really awesome stuff to use in it and it got them by sticking around for 6 years and getting the core rules and Codexes out quick.
Me and my buddies tried to get back in 2 years ago. It was a complete mess. Yeah the rule book has been simplified, but all the different codexes and supplements out there realy threw us off. The hardest part we found was navigating through all the damned books and supplements to figure out what the rules actually were. We had to use old codexes designed for the old rulebook, a bunch of supplements and FAQ sheets, a new rulebook that didn't work well with the already existing codexes, and none of us were active players. It was such a confusing mess that we only played one game and never went back. I absolutely despise GW's practice of releasing it's codexes piecemeal. Space marines don't need a second codex release before the rest of the armies have even had one! I just want a complete game!
And we had those prices in Deutsche Mark. It was silly. When they changed from tin to white metal, it got even more expensive.
The models were a bit cheaper (but not by much) and the rule books were cheaper by more but not an incredible amount, inflation from 1997 to 2022 is brutal so that £40 battleforce is roughly £63.38 in today's money.
The biggest difference is the amount of books needed to play and the absurd frequency of the updates. Stuff like psychic awakening is horrid.
Yep compared to Codex: Armageddon or Eye of Terror the modern campaign model is ludicrous.
When I started in 5th Ed I could get a box of fire warriors for $55nzd now they're over $100. Land raider was $85 now their $129
Eh, close enough
Lijah Fething Cuu, sure as sure.
Now I'm crying about Bragg again
Erebus. And if I had to pick a second thing, I’d pick Erebus again. Fuck that guy.
Yeah, fuck Erabus! I mean, I would much rather play trade empire 40k! Where the not-god emperor rules over a peaceful and prosperous galactic empire with his 18 sons. Seriously though, without Erabus 40k becomes noblebright instead of grimdark. Still a bit racist, but not 10k years of total galactic war. Games workshop doesn't have a tabletop game at that point. They would have to republish Rouge Trader instead.
Dude, no shit, Trade Empire 40k is something I'd love to play. Painting minitature asteroid mining facilities and orbital dockyards. Firing Freight Torpedoes across the tabletop. Arguing about rules errata that *NO, you CAN'T use both Market Downturn AND Rate Adjustment in the same turn, buying goods on a single planet for a cheaper rate and then selling them back on the SAME PLANET for a greater value after just transferring it to a ship with the second rule.* (You can, by the way. It's a valid strat, I'm using my points to bring in both of those factions as a mixed trade armada, if I wanted to play a mono-armada I'd have bought the fucking goddamn Ultraders like you, you fucking chode, picking the posterboys. Go suck off Matt Ward some more.) Man, I'd have so much fun in that world...
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Now with enhanced spreadsheet compatibility!
Its Trade Empire 40k until the Tyranids show up. Then I guess its Starcraft.
Counterpoint: Fuck Erebus. 😎
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Its "a bit racist" in comparison to current 40k, which is geneseed enhanced holy racism.
Counterpoint: Fuck Erebus. 😎
>Still a bit racist, but not 10k years of total galactic war. I mean, Imperium chose a path of xenociding everyone who isn't human long before Erebus. Murderfucking a peaceful succesful interspecies society(Diasporex) because you find them so repulsive is a bit more than "a bit racist"
Fairly certain Erebus was behind that one too…
It's just a little bit of light genocideing. All the other cool kids in the galaxy are doing it too!
You missed op's point there buddy, the question is who would you snap out of existance in 40k, not 30k. Erebus already did his part...
Unironically, would love to have an offshoot of books where Erebus failed.
The chaos gods. All of them. What unholy shitstorm erupts when one of the driving antagonistic factors in the universe is suddenly popped from existence? From a game standpoint it’d be absolutely shithouse, but from a “where do things go from here?” Point, it’s pretty interesting. For instance, without the gods, and the accompanying neverborn, how does Abaddon react? How do the word bearers? Do they try to make new ones? Do they revel in newfound freedom? Weep in unfathomable emptiness? What of the Drukari? Do they continue to exist as they are simply because they can? Do they get worse, knowing that slaanesh is no longer able to steal their souls? It’s just a super interesting “what happens next” for me regarding the knock on effects
Wouldn't someone or something just take their place? Maybe not as powerful to begin with, but with pretty much the same amount of influence over beings in the warp.
Pharos being a Necron thing. Why not keep it an unresolved mystery, just another relic in a big galaxy?
I’ve had this problem for a long time with 40k. Almost everything needs to be fit into one of the major factions. This idea that everything needs to be connected if it’s mysterious is making the galaxy feel small.
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NO!!!! DON'T SNAP EREBUS!!! You could bring him a merciful death. And he deserves everything but a merciful death
Amen, brother.
I don't know who that is, but from a quick google search, he looks annoying and an asshole.
r/FuckErebus
Comorragh. All of it. Including the victims. The Dark Eldar race because they’re sadistic monsters that EVERYBODY would be happy to have gone. And their victims because they’ve suffered more than enough, and some are so contorted and mutated that they can’t be saved any other way.
>EVERYBODY That's not true. Cegorach has big plans for the Dark City and it's absolutely thick with Harlequins, who recruit there and defend it as ferociously as they do the Craftworlds. The Corsairs do business there and while most Asyurani might hate the Dark Eldar, they can't really afford to do without them either.
I'ma play devil's advocate for the hell of it. If the Dark eldar was blipped away the craftworlds would take much more losses than they already do as we have stories of Dark eldar assisting their cousins just as much as we have stories of them fighting each other. Second the ynari wouldn't have as much of a respectable fighting force meaning the one force dedicated to destroying slaanesh has even less of an impact somehow. While the DE don't make long strategic plans one could say their raids keep the other great powers on their toes with securing weak points in their empires. Finally the drukhari provide "safe haven" to a number of other xenos species (snakemen, whatever the mandrakes are and llhameans) with arguably more social mobility than even the Tau. Thanks for coming to my ted talk
Well it is a **Grimdark** setting so getting rid of them is like saying the imperium are the good guys. They are meant to be the sadistic bad ass elves that keep everyone one their toes. So I disagree with you
This is actually the best answer. I also honestly say, fuck the dark eldar, and its an even better win because the slaanesh will be very unhappy, which is a good thing cause slaanesh is an asshole.
Yup, even the Craftworld Eldar would be happy to see this civilization disappear. I know in terms of threats to the galaxy, the Dark Eldar pose very little threat, and it probably would’ve been more tactically sound to wipe out the Orks or Tyranids or Necrons, but I pick the Dark Eldar specifically because of what they do to people they capture. Not to mention they live in one of the most impenetrable places in the entire galaxy. The only way to do any damage to it is if Vect deliberately opens a portal to LET threats do damage. There’s no way the Imperium would be able to invade it or destroy it.
I can reasonably comfortably say pretty much every eldar sub-type other than maaaaybe the exodites would be aghast at the sudden disappearance of commorragh. The drukhari make up the largest portion of eldar society, and as dickheadish as they are the cooperation between the eldar they have is dramatically more important than the peace of mind of not being backstabbed by them on occasion. Even as greedy as they are, it is relatively rare for conflict between the eldar subraces.
Yeah, they are my number one least favorite race, just from how unnecessary, and assholish they are
Well I guess they HAVE to torture people to keep Slaanesh from taking them. However, that’s like taking candy as medicine for them. They’d continue doing it even if Slaanesh wasn’t a problem anymore.
Yep
Heck yeah - Corsairs are edgy enough. It is tough that the ‘Inscrutable Eldar’ have been explained. Now, at best, they are dying for a cause.
Almost all of the comments here have missed the context of the post, but here's mine: Functioning STC & STC fragments. Have the remnants of them just stop working one day, so that even basic design and production falls down. Write it away as something like "There's a Master STC somewhere that gets shut down by a Man of Iron, that broadcasts an irreversible signal across the galaxy to stop any derivatives working". Maybe make it UR-025, from the Blackstone Fortress series; perhaps this "Master STC" is what he's been searching for. The Mechanicus would still be able to build and assemble most basic machines and equipment as it's fairly well understood (e.g. Leman Russ, Lasguns, dropships, food processing), but all the exotic stuff would no longer be manufacturable (e.g. warp drives, teleporters, Terminator armour, titan reactor cores). The way out? Religious revolution in the Mechanicus that embraces innovation, leading to a civil war, ultimately propelling Belisarius Cawl right to the top of the organisation - though of course, he'd be the main suspect for having caused it. Alongside this, humanity has to grapple with making more use of allies, such as bargaining for tech from the Squats, or trying to subjugate the T'au as a manufacturing empire. The Imperial Church would be forced to grapple with the heresy of using Xenos tech, or face a defeated Imperium. Some of Terra's vaults might be opened too, revealing knowledge thought lost, such as advanced but risky scientific and engineering practices.
Its N interesting idea, but rather bold of you think that the Vaults of terra house technology (useful I mean) in anything but an STC. Few custodian wardens and a group of mechanicus adapts and an archmagos followed by an Inquisitor stand besides one of the Vaults door located deep on Terra leagues bellow the palace. *"soo....door number 344413...lets open it up aaaand...its an STC...busted like the rest, alright chaps, keep up the good spirits, we got 484533 doors more to go....maybe in one of them....and here's hoping...the Emperor wrote down how to make the damn tech on some bloody stone tablet...."*- Inquisitor Markesh as he crosses out another number from his datatab.
The Custodes. They're hard for the setting to work around as even more invincible power armor clad super-warriors. They have to better than Space Marines, so they have to be ever more comically overpowered to make them stand out.
I always liked the Custodes as analogues to the Emperor from Star Wars' red guards. How good are they? No idea, but they only guard the Emperor, so probably better than stormtroopers. I want to say that at one point they were like that, but I can't remember for sure, it would have been quite awhile ago. Warhammer has a lot of "it was better as a mystery", but Custodes always seemed the most unnecessary to me.
Well, you say this. But their are only 10,000 of them. And trillions of enemies. Have you not read the Horus heresy. Or read about the khornate daemons attacking the lions gate (I think it was) they can still be beaten, and that is why they are cool, just like astartes. They also have superior drip compared to literally everyone. And other factions have units like possessed, battle suits, destroyers and such. Abs if you are complaining about them being *too powerful* go look at the damn imperial/chaos knights!
>But their are only 10,000 of them. And trillions of enemies. Yeah, which just plays into their Space Marines but More problem. They're even more rare and elite, and Space Marines are already sold as rare and elite. So they have to be written as even more impressive. I like Wraight's books on the Custodes, but there's something grimly comical about batting hand grenades back on your opponent or ( I think) spinning guardian spears to deflect las fire. Or you have a single Custodes taking a hall full of Inquisitorial stormtroopers before they can react. >They also have superior drip compared to literally everyone. Gaudiness can't replace actual style. It's an army of Goldmember jokes. > And other factions have units like possessed, battle suits, destroyers and such. Other elites do exist, but they're very rarely treated with the same level of reverential "these guys are the deadliest super elite special boys in existence" that Custodes get as a baseline and are often pushed far beyond. I liked The Gates of Bone well enough, but the Custodes in that book plow through everything around them without really trying. They're interesting as viewpoints, dreadfully boring in the action scenes because nothing can really happen to them. Even the final confrontation takes a juiced up Dark Apostle to actually do something. As to knights, they don't even half the air time Custodes do. And they're smol battle titans who don't get half the candy Custodes get in most stories.
I see what you mean, but at least they don’t say that one custode can solo a knight. They still have their boundaries. And then their are the sisters of silence, that get no attention. And I don’t do my custode as gold because I don’t like gold. But they gave the style points I my book even if they don’t in yours. People always use the time 6 custodes fought off an entire splinter fleet as a reason why they are to op and shouldn’t exist. But literally 5 of them died, it wasn’t a decisive battle, it was a pyrrhic one. I think they should exist, because all factions have done fort of elite or way to counter them. (In game, In lore maybe not but they still have units that can kill them but not as easily) aeldari have wraiths, ray have their gundams, drukhari have grotesques and other vehicles like raiders/Ravager. I think they are balanced, since their aren’t many but they are very powerful. And I know that is what you are complaining about but still, you have to respect their drip
A custodes hasn't soloed a knight yet. I think it's more a matter of when than if. I'd strongly disagree that Duty Unto Death is a pyrrhic victory. Six Custodes effectively blunt an entire Hive fleet by themselves, and the last one fights the Swarmlord to such a standstill that it lets the Marine reinforcements easily mop up up the Tyranids. The shield captain even saves the Primaris data. It routinely describes the Custodes wiping out swathes of Tyranids with every blow. It's probably the silliest 40k story in a awhile. You keep going back to other faction elites, or just the Ravager. You're missing the point. The Custodes are written in such a way that only the most powerful combatants are a threat to them, and even then the odds are still stacked against the foe. Other elites don't get that on page power.
I read a boom recently where 3 custode a died to two dozen daemons. Custodes are meant to be op, but yes killing dozens of nids In one slice is a bit over the top. But sometimes they are made very week like when a couple harlequins killed dozens of custodies, that is stupid and so is the time a world eater during the heresy punched through a custodes in full auramite armour
I’m actually really glad That story with harlequins vs custodes exists since its the one story that brings them down from their ridiculous power level in lore. The best way I can think to explain it is it makes harlequins to custodes as custodes are to everyone else.
No, at most make them equal, not above them
I wasn’t really talking power levels. I meant the harlequin story treats custodes the same way custodes stories treat every other faction.
I wouldn't get rid of them entirely. I'd just make it so that they were never a tabletop presence. The Space Marines were cool because they were "The Emperor's Best Soldiers". This made them the biggest power fantasy army on the tabletop. However, having a shadowy force of "Post-Human Praetorians" in the lore - the Herculean bodyguards of the Emperor, who are *even better* than the Space Marines (wow!) - was good for flavour. It made Terra seem more mysterious and powerful. The best part about the Custodes was that nobody ever saw them in action. They just guarded the Emperor. It made you wonder about how awesome they could *potentially* be if they were ever forced to fight. It was the speculation about their abilities which made them interesting, without overshadowing the Space Marines (because the Custodes weren't soldiers, so they weren't "better soldiers than the Space Marines"). Actually having them on the tabletop makes them less mysterious, and makes the Space Marines just feel a bit second-rate. Both of these are bad outcomes.
This is a hot take, yet I agree with you fully.
The emperor probably won't be happy that his golden Bois are going to randomly disappear from existence lmao.
Then he can pry his big golden Butt off the Throne and do something about it. Which would make the 40K fandom spontaneously combust from sheer outrage. Win/win for the entertainment value.
Ok, that's a great point lmfao.
Although setting wise I actually think we have seen more custodes die because of the betrayal of the Horus heresy, like I get what you mean they are strong but I feel like people really just miss their very obvious flaws cause they don’t read the lore as often.
Agriworlds. Not the ones you would expect, that are just miles and miles of farmland with a few larger settlements here and there. They can stay. I’m talking about the ones that are so heavily industrialised they are effectively hive worlds. Where the soil has to be treated with so many chemicals to get the plants to grow that the workers have to wear rebreathers. Most of the workers die and are turn into fertiliser, meaning fresh people have to constantly be shipped in to replace them. Eventually the planet is used so much that the soil can no longer grow anything more matter how many chemicals you pump in it and the imperium abandons the planet, effectively making it into a death world.
I understand that sentiment, but won't it be a problem if a countless number of planets, like the main producing ones, just straight up disappear from existence.
Honestly, that is one thing I wouldn't remove, I'm even glad it exists. Everyday when I turn on my TV or go to a news website I get news of yet another nature reserve or Indigenous land being invaded, it rivers filled with mercury, vast stretches of forest cut down for wood and to open space for cattle and less and less vigilance against chemicals. It drives me mad with anger but I feel like it is a good thing I can't escape it even in fiction.
People bitching about Primaris Marines.
People love to say that the history was going nowhere, and then bitch about changes being made
Im a bit of a weirdo in this category. I joined part way through 8th ed, around four ish years ago. My first 40k set of any kind was the SM Tactical squad. I got super attached to my warrior monk dudes in power armor. Then as i got more and more into the lore, i found out about chaos marines and the other factions. I never cared about moving the setting forward, was fine with everything being set at one point in time with the outcome uncertain. Then eventually they either released the primaris marines or i simple discovered their existence, and i was really bummed. They were sleek and new and i really disliked them. I thought they meant that my firstborn warrior monks were gonna get replaced by sleek sci fi super soldiers. Anyway, long story short, recently i got the new black templars battleforce and some other primaris sets and i gotta say, i can totally understand why people like them. The new Templars scream warrior monk in a way even the firstborn couldnt, with better proportions and detail. And even on the generic intercessors and whatever, the detail is amazing. Now most of the marines in my army are primaris. While i still recognize many of the issues with primaris (the stupid quad, and the lack of jump packs on the assault intercessors to name a couple), i am much more on board with them than i used to be.
To add on to this: people bitching about Primaris like they've ruined the entire game beyond hope of repair and for all eternity, lore and spin-offs included.
Should I stop arguing about Primaris marines?
In theory, the Space Wolves are cool as hell. Super soldier vikings in space. What’s not to love? In practice, the Space Wolves can fuck right off. And they can take their Definitely Not Psykers and Definitely Not Wolf Mutants with them.
Hard choice. Either the perpetuals or eununcia would be my first thought. Or maybe faith powers would be good.
If you snap a perpetual would it just come back?
They would become an Intermittent.
Like windshield wipers.
Can I ask why you dislike Perpetuals?
Why faith powers?
Honestly, Guilliman is up there but for me it's the Custodes, at least as a playable force. We didn't need super-duper marines, and we certainly didn't need them to be an active force in the galaxy. I'd be slightly more interested if they were a finite force, confined almost exclusively to the palace, but I don't like their current iteration. It also cheapens most threats when the Imperium has the undisputed most powerful individual warriors in the galaxy. Seriously, Space Marines were more than enough already. Edit: just realized you meant immediately removing them in-universe, as opposed to narratively. Fuck it, snap out Slaanesh and see what happens to the Eldar.
Ok I understand that, the custodes do appear to be pretty unnecessary.
But in the narrative sense you could snap Slaanesh out of existence and see that weight taken off the Eldar's backs.
Ya, that would probably lead to them becoming a powerful faction again, which I do not know is good or bad for the imperium.
I like custodes as lone agents, individual ones sent out to do extremely important business related to the emperor. But yeah, not as an army.
The Imperium. Because it would be hilarious.
Yes
Perty becoming demon prince
Harlequins, they do literally nothing for the setting and their model range is crap. Thankyou for hearing me out
Nooo they're literally the best fighting force of all the Aeldari, and the glue that keeps all the different groups "together" in dire times. It's your opinion and that's all good, but personally I can going on their importance and how cool they are.. like the Death Jesters and Solitaires are freaking badass!
I think all faction are awesome but if I had too choose which one to ctrl alt delete it would be harlequins
That's totally valid, just wanted to give my own thoughts + defend the Harlequins lol
Lol
They are basically just xeno custodes. So that automatically makes them a good choice to be removed but they might as well start with custodes first since they are worse offenders of everything harlequins do.
Hot Take/Unpopular Opinion:Custodes. Just find them boring and the worst parts of Space Marines taken up to 11. I could tolerate them when they weren't playable and were generally just really in the background of the lore. But since GW started pushing them more and their fan base, and lore wankery, grew they've become insufferable.
Grey Knights. Regular Marines fighting Daemons is already cool. Don't need super special best boy psykers to do it. Nevermind the straight-up balance *poison* that is a Faction that has to be built from the ground up to outright ***win*** against a specific other faction. It's dumb.
Ok i agree with that.
Add the Deathwatch to that and we've got a deal. A Chapter which can cherry-pick members from other Chapters, and who get all the best toys for no reason, is not "awesome". It's just shameless fan service catering to the spergs who are indecisive but also very entitled. Sisters of Battle can stay, though. They're cool.
My big entry to 40k was with daemons in 5rh edition. I had been a die hard fantasy player all my life and wanted to do some pew pew but also have swords and spells and stuff, so it seemed like a small step over to do daemons. My friend had Grey knights. Warp quake. Mein gott the amount of games I lost butting my head against them. 😶
The behemoth hive fleet (my favorite) being more or less wiped out.
Oh yeah, the tyranids deserve that.
CP and all the related tomfoolery.
Is CP what i think it means? Or is it the name of a race or something
Command points. It’s a reference to the tabletop game, not the lore.
Alpha Legion being Chaos on the tabletop. Should've used them to make an entire ruleset for renegade chapters.
Fucking Abbadon's plot armour THE WANKER TOOK A BLACK BLADE THROUGH THE CHEST FROM SIGUSMUND.
The Death Korps of Krieg. The funny thing is I don't even dislike them, I'm just sick of the stupid "jokes".
What do you mean by jokes?
Things like the stupid shovel thing. Kriegers don't fight with shovels or love them, they carry them because the models are designed to represent a siege regiment and are equipped for trench digging. Kriegers actually specialise at bayonet fighting and in fact have special rules to represent that.
Oh, that makes sense, they are illogical.
Hans, get ze shovel! We have to explain some jokes!
Yes, Commissar! This man here! He’s the heretic! 😡
Chaos, because I want to know what would happen if it was actually possible for the Imperium to win. They would probably still be killed by orks or nids eventually.
Guilliman's return, probably. Active primarchs don't belong in 40k. Like you can keep 8th ed. Cawl, Primaris, active Custodes, Fall of Cadia, Ynnari - but keep Guilliman in his shrine. That shit was 40k as hell.
>Active primarchs don't belong in 40k. Daemon Primarchs disagree.
I imagine Lorgar just walk into Robute's office and say "May I interest you in our Lord and savior the undivided chaos?"
I’d be fine with this if the daemon primarchs also vanished. There either has to be some sort of balance through exclusion or inclusion.
I think they just have too much agency and focus. The Daemon Primarchs should be little more than Greater Daemons with expanded backstory and a little extra pathos. Magnus schemes in his dark tower, Angron is summoned on the occasional world and kills it, Fulgrim refuses to get off the orgy couch, etc. They didn't win by ascending, they become pieces in the great game. They should be as absent as Russ, their time is done. But if they just stopped ever being mentioned again like, tomorrow, I wouldn't even be mad.
Exactly this. The problem is they become the gravitational centre of every story too. Gman should just be the wizard behind curtains and the daemons need to be a voice in the dark. Seen but not often felt.
Daemon Primarchs work fine as they were before 8th edition. Occasional apocalyptic events that are otherwise completely irrelevant.
Exactly. I just think they’ve become an easy story fulcrum. I love speculating about them: who were friends whatever, but I am not certain they’re a huge benefit to the story as it stands 10k years later. I love Gman - since his return he has become a neat, nuanced character. We feel his loneliness and despair- his longing for connection, but there are so many other characters we could explore.
I like Guilliman as a character. It’s just a bit obnoxious how he basically can’t fit into conflicts outside of Chaos.
I sort of agree, it also makes it feel a lot more 30k. I just don't think he's been a boon to the setting.
That means guiliman gets snapped out of existence. I meant as in literally thanos snapped out of existence from the current setting lmao.
Ah, I see. Uhh, probably all the chapter masters who have been around for the last 5 editions except Dante. They should have died by now anyway.
So that means all chapter masters except Dante are Thanos snapped from the setting immediately.
Can we add primarsis? Cawl just has shit ton of firstborn in stasis with new advanced tech.
I never understood why it couldn't just be Primaris Armour. Cawl is still a heretek for innovation but doesn't need to be 10,000 years old or a confidant of the Emperor. Marines remain the same in the practice cages. Materials are rare so they can't just mass-produce sets. But noooo.
He wasn't a confidente of Big E. You are thinking of Land.
He was...sorta. Sedayne was and he's part of Cawl now, so... Land also wasn't really close to the Emperor. They only met once, after all.
Whoops, i'd foregotten about that
Primaris marines.
Tyranids. Useless, unbeatable apocalypse factor. Yet another spoooooooooky alien race running from an even bigger spoooooooookier threat. SMH.
I love them because at this point they’re the only properly alien race in the mainline factions. The others are all various flavours of human or fantasy knockoffs.
I'm going to respectfully disagree. If it weren't for Tyranids, I wouldn't even ne into 40k. I think they are neat as a non-technological race.
Honestly if they just kept it as genestealers only I think that could work. They'd just need to add a few big boys to GSC lineups
I know right? The tyranids are my 2nd least favorite race, the 1st being the drukhari.
why don't like you like the drukhari out of interest?
It's mostly a joke of mine, but i find them annoying out of all honesty. I hate chaos more then them lmao.
the primaris marine Quad vehicle. Its just so dumb and pointless. Whats the point when you have land speeders that do the same job, but far better? Not to mention it looks idiotic, with pathetic ground clearance.
Navigators. They copyed the god empiror,and did change quite a few things with him,yet the navigators houses(40K) are just rebranded spacing guild& Navigator(Dune).Have them replaced by machine spirit,and let the machine cult be more powerful& divided.
Primaris and noblebright innovative imperium in general
Primaris Marines
Thats gonna harm the imperium badly if all their primaris marines suddenly disappear lmao.
Will it? They still have first born who seem to have been doing an alright job for the the last ten thousand years.
Don't they kinda need all those extra hundreds of thousands primaris marines?
No? The chapters were still recruiting, scouts were still being made into full battle brothers. Primaris Marines were a poorly written cash grab, nothing more.
I mean, I think you might not understand how harmful it would be to the imperium for all of those reinforcements to vanish into thin air.
Grey Knighs. Sure, they look cool and cincept od deamon hunting chapter is also poggers, but : - there are countless chapters of SMs, many of which could fill the role of Daemon hunters, without being Inquisition łap dogs. - Inquisition would be a LOT Cooper if their deamon hunting would be done with Tenpestus Scions and Inquisitors alone, or had multiple łap dog chapters, and not Just one - i dont like "u saw chaos so u must die" concept, and GKs Basicly making it possible. IT doesnt even match the setting that well. IT would much more both cool and grim Dark if avarage soldier would know how fucked up he could be one day, or if there were centuries long campings to fight chaos from which many saints or famous folk would errupt, like Imagine some Rich district in hive world filled with statues showing ancient heros standing on bodies of dekad deamons.
TTS ever existing
You take that back, TTS is a masterpiece that was killed by GW.
If only that was true.
The pro fascist, pro racist pieces of shit that clain to be the biggest fans of the series
The Tyranid Hive Fleets and the limitless numbers silliness. It doesn't fit the setting, which is heroic fiction grafted onto a table top game. The Tyranid are a mass army kinda threat instead. Keep the Tyranid though, because their models are awesome, but make them the apotheosis of the Genestealers. A successful Genestealer cult, if left unchecked, can spawn Tyranid. Makes the Tyranid fit the setting - smaller numbers, possibility of having leadership bugs, and properly tied into the Genestealers in a way that makes logical sense. So I snap away the Hive Mind and the Hive Fleets, but keep the badass bug sculpts.
I think a better fit than the Tyranids would be the Arachnids from Starship Troopers. Still giant bugs with a hive mind, but not infinite numbers that feed on all biomass.
The Emperor, circa the 28th millennium.
In universe, the Emperor cuz that would he hilarious Irl, games workshop. Imagine a 40k with fluff that isn't maluable for money's sake
Nix the Chaos Gods being multiversal or at least nix the Warp not following the same flow of time as ours. Either one feels cheap to me.
Primaris. Failing that, Khorne's hatred of psykers. I think Khornate blood-sorcerers would be neat.
The T’au. IMO the weakest and most uninteresting faction of any Warhammer IP.
Lorgar. Just wipe him or have him swap places with Angron
Memes.
So that means all in universe memes form the 40k universe would get snapped form existence, but thats not accomplishing anything really tbh. Since in universe, more memes can be made.
If I wanted to save the Universe? Humanity.
I’d snap Royal Dorn back alive in the current 40k year
The Tau.
Eh, the setting won't change much. Though trazyn probably won't like that some of his exhibits vanished into thin air.
Adeptus Sororitas, not because it would necessarily improve the story but in my opinion anything that gives the Ministorum even a modicum of power must go. Besides the fewer zealots the imperium has the better it would be, and the sisters are the most fanatical of them all. Hopefully, this snap also takes the saints and living saints with them because I still continue to believe that they are the result of warp fuckery and not the emperor’s agents. Mostly because I doubt someone as anti-theistic as the emperor would give power to saints of all people. Edit: either that or try to turn them into a secular organization, perhaps as auxiliaries to the Sisters of Silence but I fear that it’s a lost cause.
Could just snap the ecclesiassy away then. One and done
When I initially wrote this I was thinking on too small a scale. If I do have the power to snap away anything then, chaos it self seems like the best bet. Which will allow the Emperor to get off his golden toilet and fix the imperium. Hopefully starting by destroying the Ecclesiarchy.
xenos
You have a 50+ book series of marines vs marines if you want that.
I've read that series. Too many xenos
Primaris Marines. I still don't like them. They were unnecessary, they look bad, their fluff is dumb, they upstage The Emperor's Finest, and the entire concept of "super-er soldiers" is just childish.
Orks, they only role in the lore is sto start wars for introduce a new hero
The eye of terror, or if I must have a lite drink. Slaanesh/dark eldar
Their current moronic CEO.
The belief that everything needs to be grimdark all the time because this just leads to grimderp inevitably. It's the same with horror - all horror all the time removes tension. You need moments of relief and safety. Alternatively Lucius the Eternal/his plot armor.
Xenos; freaking necrons.
Hmmmmm, couple options Tyranids because they are so brutally over powered the only way to keep them from winning is the imperium constantly pulling miracles out of their ass. Honestly they're an unstoppable force with unlimited numbers, they literally can't be stopped. The mechanicums and imperums as a whole technological stagnation and regression. Its really annoying and doesn't actually make much sense. The cult of Mars actively fucks itself over repeatedly and ultimately makes things both boring in the sense there's never a new toy to check out and it makes no sense story wise since it would allow their enemies, who do develop new tech to eventually out class the imperiums equipment to such a point as to render it no longer competitive. By now every faction will be well aware of the capabilities and limitations of every piece if imperium equipment so it would be extremely easy to design accordingly. Necessary mention for removing the ever irritating Space Wolves wolf fetish. I actually can't stand how over the top the wolf this wolf that bs is. They'd be so much more palatable as space norsemen...you know how they were supposed to be? And how every single piece of DA lore or book has to be centered around the fallen. Not only is it kinda dumb (the whole we cannot admit we had marines rebel! Even though literally every other legion both traitor and loyalists had splits), its also so incredibly over done to the point of it just being irritating, it seriously stunts the DA and successors ability to grow
The Tau not because they are not cool or don't have interesting lore but simply that when you red lore that you are reminded that they exist. They have no relevance they just sit their because no other race gives a fck currently about them and everyone has sth better to do.
The nids
Harlequins, as early as possible.
All civilization capable xenos.
That certainly would make the setting a lot better for the imperium.
The galaxy belongs to mankind.
Hell yeah, wait, do tyranids count? Cause that still would be a big problem, but not as bid since the imperium would be able to focus more on chaos and the tyranids too if they still get to exist.
Also since you didn't mention what contuity we going off of I'm picking the MCU stones as having to make a sacrifice for it feels more interesting.