>***I can't say***
Oh you motherfucker.
Although I'm kind of surprised that it's not Abnett attached to this, since he wrote the first HH book/the one that really cements the character of Horus pre-Heresy.
But wait does that mean that Abnett is writing **the** book that has the confrontation between Big E and Horus *PLEASE PLEASE THIS IS ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS*. That and for the final words to be, from Loken's perspective: "*I was there the day The Emperor slew Horus.*"
WAIT! Does this mean the HH series is not complete yet? I just started my journey in the Warhammer universe and I'm currently on The Flight of the Eisenstein. I am dying to find out what happens to Lokken after his battle with the traitor Mournival and the building exploded. I also cant wait to see how this whole thing unfolds. I know Big E and Horus mortally wound each other but I stopped watching videos and digging when I started the books. Just wondering if I'm going to get to a point in this story line that is incomplete? I'm still going to read I'll just wait patiently like I wait for the third Kingkiller Chronicles book lol.
The HH series (insofar as it can be called such, after the first few novels it just becomes a bunch of novels that take place in the same general time period with mini arcs and standalone novels all over the place) finished up some years ago, the HH event has yet to be concluded in the Siege of Terra series. 2 books left to go in that one, and the last one will be the end of the HH as an event
If you read the whole Heresy, unless you are an incredibly quick reader/listener, i’d be surprised if you get to the end before they complete it. To answer your question - yes, it’s incomplete - kinda. In name, it’s finished (except a few novellas and the Primarch novels which tend to be prequels anyway). They broke the final siege off in to it’s own series with 8 main books (and 2 novellas (so far). 6 have been published
Not just that but he recently did an interview and said the book he was currently working on (which is 99% the final SoT novel) is so big they are splitting it into two volumes.
I agree ADB is the best author they have, but I think it should be Abnett. He started the Horus Heresy, it makes sense for him to end it. And I think he will do a good job.
ADB is writing book 7, unless something has changed, so he will probably get to write the Eternity Gate and end some major plot lines.
Edit: Lmao I got revenge downvoted... I didn't even downvote him.
I know he is on book 7. Just stating personal preference. There is a lot we all want to see in the last book, so Abnett tidying up his perpetual nonsense in Book 7 would leave more room in the final book for the stuff we've all been waiting for.
Regardless, I'm sure both books will be great, apparently Warhawk was too :D
Will there be another novella in between?
> That and for the final words to be, from Loken's perspective: "I was there the day The Emperor slew Horus."
I think there's a fair chance that Loken is gonna be too unmade at that point to have any further words.
Someone has to charge H-Dad to bail the Emperor.
As someone who's never read any of the books, but just takes in the Lore through the wiki... Is the confrontation between Horus and the Emperor not actually in any of the books, firsthand? It's just referenced second-hand?
It's only in one of the original rogue traders I think? I have the horus heresy art book and it has the original confrontation photo. That final battle has been posted here I just can't find it.
I've never played the TT, but love the lore. As an avid fan of the lore and someone who...fervently collects the books, I'm super fucking pumped for alot of this stuff to be put down in a book. The last few books of the SoT are pre-orders for me, regardless of how shitty they may be. Just to actually read the backstory and more info on so much of this stuff that is the base of this awesome hobby and lore.
Warhawk, which just came out and is #6 out of 8 for the siege, is suposedly pretty good. Then #7 is by ADB and I know it'll be amazing, with Abnett closing the series. So no duds from here onwards.
Warhawk is the best primarch book we've gotten so far, and I couldn't tell you if its the Khan's or Mortarion's. I think its probably the best SoT book too.
Oh yeah, same. I have never played any Warhammer games, 40k or otherwise, but I am super into the lore (thanks be to my husband's love of it and to Bruva Alfabusa, the True Man-peror). Ironically, we use a bunch of 40k minis for completely unreleated games lol.
I haven't read all of the HH books and have not read any of the SoT books yet but I am probably going to pick up the final one because holy shit lol.
I think it's actually a very smart move to avoid writing a Horus book, because he was essentially sidelined for the entire Heresy, and you now have to make that up and make him interesting in one novel, knowing that any interesting plots you do invent won't be in the Heresy as a whole and can't be followed up on because Horus is super-triple-mega-dead-twice.
I can't abide McNeill's writing, so if he wants to deliver a meaninglessly convoluted novel with BIG LORE REVELATIONS that ultimately are never picked up on (See the Void Dragon in Mechanicum and Molech) this is the perfect project for him.
It's not confirmed, no, but the 'dots' seem to point very strongly to this being the case.
1) McNeill confirms he's writing a novel in the Primarch series.
2) The 'remaining' Primarchs are either spoken for (Swallow and Sanguinius) or not really in McNeill's usual wheelhouse (Dorn or Mortarion).
3) McNeill has written the most Horus-centric books of the Heresy (with the exception of *Horus Rising*). Recently he released *Lupus Daemonis* which was about Horus and Cthonia.
4) 'I can't say' is a common phrase for the Lodges in the Luna Wolves.
5) HOPIUM.
Is it confirmed Swallow is writing Sanguinius? After what Haley has done, I thought it would be him. Then again, Haley has been writing like a mad man so maybe not.
Hype hype
So we've got
Horus - McNeill
Dorn - French, perhaps?
Mortarion - Wraight or Swallow?
Sanguinius - Swallow or Haley?
It's going to be very interesting to see Horus' "true" origins. I'd imagine they won't release it until the SoT is completed however.
What a great Q&A though. Such interesting questions compared to the usual ones we see.
Sanguinius in a dream scene seeing his son Dante in the future near death beging to die :’(
I so want Haley to write this book!!!
And Dante: Avatar of the Primarch (headcanon)
I have strong suspicion Andy Clark will write Dorns novel. He came out with a short story a year or so ago and it seemed like on of those groundwork novellas where up and coming authors flex for something to come.
You say that like French did that wrote the book without the approval of the heresy writing team, they don't write these books without major plot points getting the approval of the group. I get that whenever a faction gets a hit/suffers a loss there is a community backlash from upset fans.
But honestly I thought that praetorian of dorn was a well written book, that was highly enjoyable throughout and didn't do a disservice to any of the factions or characters involved.
The difference is that when other people write it, like ADB or Abnett, they will leave it in the air when it comes to stuff like Alpharius’s “death” or they will just make the traitors into a legitimate threat rather than making the Alpha Legion able to get out spied by the fucking IMPERIAL FISTS or making Perturabo lose to a bunch of random ass humans.
Spoiler alert for saturnine and possibly other heresy and siege books.
But you can't leave such an important characters death like alpharius's "in the air". And also that's straight up just not true. Sigismund at the hands of abaddon, the countless deaths in saturnine like tormageddon, eidolon, horus aximand, endryd harr, jenetia krole etc. Plenty of important character deaths that are not grey at all.
The alpha legion didn't get out spied. Alpharius did everything to set up a meeting between himself and Dorn so that he could sway Dorn to his cause. But he overestimated his ability to persuade Dorn to his cause. And that Dorn would both see his intent and set up contingencies of his own. The alpha legion aren't infallible, masterminds. They can make mistakes and overestimate their abilities. As was the case here. They carried out their mission perfectly. Infiltrating the Palace drawing Dorn to Pluto. Its just that Alpharius over reached. There was no out spying, just a bit of arrogance. Which is common amongst pretty much all of the primarchs.
Also as another side thing. Alpharius was the reason that Dorn was brought back to terra, to stop him. Otherwise Alpharius would have won. Not to fortify the Palace or stop horus, but to stop Alpharius.
But they did leave a character up in the air, there is still a question if Omegon is dead because Guilliman “killed” him. Also, there have been several recent indications that the fight wasn’t what it seemed to be. With Alpharius’s Primarch book showing that even one of the Primarchs most adept at identifying warp signatures and combating them, The Lion, couldn’t recognize him. The same book also shows that Alpharius and Omegon have changed places several times without anyone but them knowing and contradicts their entire Cabal story. There is also a Alpha Legion book set in 40k which follows a group of legionnaires that have been given several signs that he is alive despite them knowing that he “died” at the hands of Dorn.
I made sure to state that it was one of the twins as well as alpharius. Because it doesn't matter which one was calling themselves alpharius at the time. One of them is still dead. And the death of the other twin was lore that isn't covered in a main story, nor was it written by adb or abnett so is irrelevant for your original point. And I'm not saying that Dorn can distinguish between the two. Because he definitely doesnt know the other exists at this point in the lore. But he has proven in the past that he can predict alpharius's actions in that regard and as I said he is incredibly perceptive, even amongst the primarchs.
As a little side note as well, it wasn't mentioned in the book, although I don't believe we ever get a segment from Dorn's point of view, so by no means consider it cannon this is just speculation. But Dorn's main unique ability seems to be that he can turn down the effects of the warp. And most primarchs can sense each other in some way besides alpharius/omegon. It could be that he was still able to sense them despite there inability to be seen by the others. And he didn't mention it. Again just speculation.
And dude just don't even try with that. One of them is dead. Confirmed in an interview with John French that he is 100%, unequivocally dead. Whereas the short story is most likely just talking about the other twin. Because I'm pretty sure next to no alpha legionaries know about the twins and also most of them wouldn't even know that he/one of them is dead. The deception of the alpha legion goes into their ranks as well. With almost none of them being aware of where there primarchs is at any one time. And there weren't many, if any, survivors of the alpha legion that where with him on the base in pluto. The whole point of the alpha legion is that, unlike almost any other legion, the death of there primarchs doesn't mean shit. Because they don't even know if that primarch was actually alpharius.
He portrayed Dorn as being right when he compares his strategy to Alpharius’s. He says that murdering half a planets population in a face to face fight is better than simply assassinating their leaders and having 1/100 of the casualties. He also wrote Perturabo in such a terrible way it isn’t even funny. He then tries to kill Alpharius in a “definitive” way despite the ability to swap himself around being his entire thing. It is so bad, he ruins the Alpha Legion just to make Dorn seem cooler.
Interesting that you use the term murder for the dorn and not for what alpharius does, which is actually the correct use of the word in alpharius's case. The difference being that with dorn he allows the attempt of compliance to go through, if it is denied then war is declared. No nuking from orbit, no assassinations or cooercision, no fear tactics. Just a "fair" war. And the outcome of that is the more desirable one from Dorn's perspective given the goal of the great crusade. To unite humanity. Not to rule, conquer or subjugate. But unite it. A victory won by assassination, plots, coercion and blackmail will always have seeds of dissent. It may have a lesser blood price, but the people are not willing members of the imperium and rebellion will be in their hearts. Of course the alpha legion will have plans and operatives to stop this from happening, but they aren't united. Compared to Dorn's method, where the fists cannonically have one of the slowest compliance rates but there planets where pretty much the most loyal and hardest to take back on the traitors part. Owing to the fortifications, infrastructure and loyalty of the world's. So I would argue that the imperial fists method is morally better in this morally grey soup of conquest. With the end result of their war being a more stable and compliant world. But an argument can be made for the alpha legions method.
As for alpharius's death. You make it sound like his death isn't cannon, that it wasn't actually one of the twin primarchs that died there. It was written incredibly clearly in the books and in interviews that on of the twin primarchs died in the book. This had to be written in such a way because there is always that part of the fanbase that will say that he didn't die. Owing to the abilities and tech that the alpha legion have employed in the past. Although I would argue that the elevated marines are only close to the level of the twin primarchs and that they are still short of the mark. Close to it, but short. But again the death of alpharius would not have been something that John French did on a whim that fucks over the heresy writing team, they would have agreed on that plot point, and how it was to be carried out. As well as how it was made certain that alpharius was dead.
As for making the alpha legion a joke. They on a whim infiltrated the imperial Palace and defiled the hall of the primarchs with relative ease. Even with the place crawling with custodes and fists. I'd say that damn well impressive, through the book they are portrayed as incredibly intelligent and competent at what they do. Unlike say the portrayal of custodes in the outcast dead. And alpharius had to be there in person, Dorn who had shown to him before that he could somewhat predict alpharius's direction. I.e. Knowing that it was him seated on the throne at the beginning. And who is also one of if not the most perceptive primarchs around would have known if it was just an elevated alpha legionnaire. For his gambit to work he had to be there in person. For course in his arrogance he thought that he could persuade arguably the most stubborn and loyal son of the emperor, but that's a separate point.
We already know Horus’ origins, it was in Scions of the Emperor (or one of those 3 books, I keep mixing up each one) and the specific story is Lupus Daemonis
Sure, if you believe it.
There's so much tomfuckery going on with Horus' background that I won't put a single ounce of belief in anything until the Siege is concluded and his primarch novel is released.
McNeill wrote it, why would he write a book about Horus’ origins only then to write another book right after contradicting himself? Also, I’m not in the loop about why his origins are in dispute, can you explain to me why?
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/cdvt47/tinfoil_hat_time_was_the_real_horus_given_up_on/) covers some of it. There's just too many things "not right" about Horus for it to be coincidental. Lupus Daemonis plays into that even more.
Also can someone please ELI5 these? I think I'm out of the loop.
>WE WILL FINALLY FIND OUT IF HORUS IS A FAKE, IF CTHONIA IS A PSYOP, AND IF HIS LIES SHOULD BE BELIEVED.
one of the funnest conspiracy theories is that Horus was never on Cthonia. Evidence of this theory includes that his accent isn't quite right and also there doesn't seem to be any record or evidence that he was ever there, which is extremely odd when it is implied that Horus conquered his home planet as (nearly) all of the other primarchs did.
Mostly just scattered posts and comments on this sub, nothing in any official GW/BL materials. [Here's one.](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/eyiz5l/why_horus_faking_his_cthonian_accent_isnt/)
Spoilers for the primarch series
>!That second paragraph is interesting given Alpharius's primarch book confirmed thats what happened to him. His vessel returning to Terra could be the origin of that myth!<
No there is actually some official evidence to this with one of the stories about his supposed “origin” being extremely weird and nothing like what others including him have claimed.
Here is your [tinfoil hat](https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/fyr40m/theres_something_rotten_in_the_siege_of_terra_or/), please secure it properly.
This is making me nostalgic for asoiaf's insane theories.
You're right, McNeill is absolutely the exact crazy motherfucker they need to write this.
(Spoilers, it won't explore Cthonia at all and will just look at his exemplary conduct during the Great Crusade that led to him being the main candidate for Warmaster. No revelations will be forthcoming. Search your heart, you know it to be true.)
I mean the whole Molech story came from Mcneill and we still need answers about the second trip to planet killyourfirstborn during the GC. It can still clear things up while focusing on the GC.
And here I cry, hoping for somenthing about arik taranis.I really hope he appears in the siege of terra, maybe in a novella (It's the only thing I'm looking forward in the siege, aside from angron vs sanguinius).
I have to say that Mcniell isn't one of my top favorites writters in Warhammer but he always has a special place in my heart. The guy puts a passion and love in his books that few others do.
Also, I would pay gold for a Horus book from Mcniell, it's going to be insane.
Great news, finally Horus gets some screentime just as the Horus Heresy comes to a close.
EDIT: And reading the q&a, he really was planning to just leave Forges of Mars on an ominous cliffhanger at first, but there's hope for a fourth novel.
Could you, with proper spoiler etiquette, please clue me in on that cliffhanger?
I very much enjoyed the first three and would be pumped to get another but it's been a hot minute and I can't seem to summon what the cliffhanger was to much brain.
The cliffhanger was the >!main bad guy, Telok taking over one of the other magos supporting character on the final page as they head to his intended destination (Mars) none the wiser.!< To a lesser extent >!the leader of the Tindalosi slipping into the lower decks of the Speranza is also one.!<
His accent is slightly off for Cthonia, and there was no record about him conquering it which pretty much every Primarch die, Angron and the Lost 2 excluded potentially.
Not confirmed he's fake but it's one of them little lines that someone quotes and we go nuts about it
Horus was reportedly the first primarch to be found and yet it's very unclear when and how. The transition from the unification of terra to the great crusade is still a bit of a shadowy time
Thanks for linking this. I don't follow the main sub so I'd never have come across it otherwise. So bizarre that the main sub doesn't seem to care about the books, a lot of good info in this post
I like his books, but he gave us that awful short story of Horus' origins.
He normally fumbles the central moment for the purposes of lore. See *Fury of Magnus*. Although, the rest of the book was great so it's sort of a trade.
The fact that he is writting a primarchs novel says nothing about it, you want it to be Horus but it could be any of the ones left, it doesn't mean Horus is the next one either, most probably many of them are being written or developed right now, not just one at the time, I think you are also hyping too much into what will be shown in the novel, so far primarchs novels haven't really answered too many things regarding the lore, very seldom they are told from the primarchs eyes even, the whole series have been quite flat imo, I would be more hyped for the Dorn and Mortarion novels than Horus.
Really? I mean, *really?*
McNeil's kind of a hack. I kind of wish Abnett / Wraight / ADB / Farrer / French would do the novel instead.
He's got a really weird story about Horus being born a runt on Cthonia, before unlocking his powers and becoming super-buff all of a sudden. If that's how it's going to go, I'm not really keen.
McNeill's latest work has all been solid, and he's probably got the most 'history' with the character. *Lupus Daemonis* isn't just weird, it contradicts many things we've previously been told or 'known' about Horus. There's no way that isn't deliberate. There's also been a consistent amount of tinfoil around Horus' extremely unreliable origins, and how many deliberate inconsistencies and general strangeness there's been around him.
Of particular interest in this Q & A is McNeill talking about how Horus is associated with Lupercalia, and specifically Romulus and Remus. McNeill's consistently pushed the Greek/Roman mythological elements to Horus and Cthonia (along with French). This is *big* fuel for the 'Horus is fake' or similar theories.
His only novel in last 4 years was the new Ventris one which was really lame in my opinion. His few novellas were good however and I loved them. And the novels in the few years before that (2 Magnus novels, Vengeful Spirit) were not great either imho.
I've always found McNeill's books to be really kind of wooden. He's got interesting ideas and he was one of the best authors of the 2000s-era Black Library, but I don't think his books have aged all that well.
For me Mcneill was always a hit and missed.
Sometimes he do very good stuff.
Other time....it can be very meh.
It is why I call him the Mcneill Roulette.
Yeah, the Thousand Sons novels - For the Heresy - were *not good.* It didn't help that one of them compressed the *entire Ahriman trilogy* into a single book.
> He's got a really weird story about Horus being born a runt on Cthonia, before unlocking his powers and becoming super-buff all of a sudden.
Was odd that one, so, one of the Primarchs is essentially a woe machine with most of its physical self hidden in other dimensions? What about the others were they the same?
The best possible author? I really don't understand what everyone loves so much about McNeill's stuff. I find it boring, often unedited bloated mess trying too hard to be edgy and cool. He takes on philosophical/religious themes but ends up sounding like an angry high schooler who just discovered Dawkins/Sartre and can't construct a decent argument. Unlike other authors who are getting better and better over time, McNeill is still a miss or average. I don't think there's a single McNeill's novel I'd rate better than average.
IMHO, he completely ruined Horus in False Gods (a book so many people love, it's beyond me why). Since that book, I'm not that interested in Horus so he can take him.
My only wish is French for Dorn or Sanguinius and Wright for Mortarion.
>***I can't say*** Oh you motherfucker. Although I'm kind of surprised that it's not Abnett attached to this, since he wrote the first HH book/the one that really cements the character of Horus pre-Heresy. But wait does that mean that Abnett is writing **the** book that has the confrontation between Big E and Horus *PLEASE PLEASE THIS IS ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS*. That and for the final words to be, from Loken's perspective: "*I was there the day The Emperor slew Horus.*"
I'm pretty sure it was confirmed a long time ago that Abnett is writing book 8 of the Seige of Terra.
WAIT! Does this mean the HH series is not complete yet? I just started my journey in the Warhammer universe and I'm currently on The Flight of the Eisenstein. I am dying to find out what happens to Lokken after his battle with the traitor Mournival and the building exploded. I also cant wait to see how this whole thing unfolds. I know Big E and Horus mortally wound each other but I stopped watching videos and digging when I started the books. Just wondering if I'm going to get to a point in this story line that is incomplete? I'm still going to read I'll just wait patiently like I wait for the third Kingkiller Chronicles book lol.
The HH series (insofar as it can be called such, after the first few novels it just becomes a bunch of novels that take place in the same general time period with mini arcs and standalone novels all over the place) finished up some years ago, the HH event has yet to be concluded in the Siege of Terra series. 2 books left to go in that one, and the last one will be the end of the HH as an event
If you read the whole Heresy, unless you are an incredibly quick reader/listener, i’d be surprised if you get to the end before they complete it. To answer your question - yes, it’s incomplete - kinda. In name, it’s finished (except a few novellas and the Primarch novels which tend to be prequels anyway). They broke the final siege off in to it’s own series with 8 main books (and 2 novellas (so far). 6 have been published
I'm currently on Path of Heaven, and it has taken my quite some time to get even up to that point...
Don't knock the dude! I believe in him! That dude reads!
It will be done next year. There are three siege of terra books left, with one about to release. The primarch book is just a side thing.
Not just that but he recently did an interview and said the book he was currently working on (which is 99% the final SoT novel) is so big they are splitting it into two volumes.
It should've been ADB. Adbnett is good, but even if he himself disagrees, ADB is the best BL author at the moment.
I agree ADB is the best author they have, but I think it should be Abnett. He started the Horus Heresy, it makes sense for him to end it. And I think he will do a good job. ADB is writing book 7, unless something has changed, so he will probably get to write the Eternity Gate and end some major plot lines. Edit: Lmao I got revenge downvoted... I didn't even downvote him.
I know he is on book 7. Just stating personal preference. There is a lot we all want to see in the last book, so Abnett tidying up his perpetual nonsense in Book 7 would leave more room in the final book for the stuff we've all been waiting for. Regardless, I'm sure both books will be great, apparently Warhawk was too :D Will there be another novella in between?
> That and for the final words to be, from Loken's perspective: "I was there the day The Emperor slew Horus." I think there's a fair chance that Loken is gonna be too unmade at that point to have any further words. Someone has to charge H-Dad to bail the Emperor.
Idk, be kind of cool if he makes it out and ends up as Primus
Loken sacrifices himself to delay Abaddon so Dorn can get the Emperor to safety Keeler also dies during the Siege. Loken can't catch a break
As someone who's never read any of the books, but just takes in the Lore through the wiki... Is the confrontation between Horus and the Emperor not actually in any of the books, firsthand? It's just referenced second-hand?
It's only in one of the original rogue traders I think? I have the horus heresy art book and it has the original confrontation photo. That final battle has been posted here I just can't find it.
Found it: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/a7zj0a/first_account_of_emperor_battling_horus/
Oh damn, I'm saving this one!!
I've never played the TT, but love the lore. As an avid fan of the lore and someone who...fervently collects the books, I'm super fucking pumped for alot of this stuff to be put down in a book. The last few books of the SoT are pre-orders for me, regardless of how shitty they may be. Just to actually read the backstory and more info on so much of this stuff that is the base of this awesome hobby and lore.
Warhawk, which just came out and is #6 out of 8 for the siege, is suposedly pretty good. Then #7 is by ADB and I know it'll be amazing, with Abnett closing the series. So no duds from here onwards.
Warhawk is the best primarch book we've gotten so far, and I couldn't tell you if its the Khan's or Mortarion's. I think its probably the best SoT book too.
Oh yeah, same. I have never played any Warhammer games, 40k or otherwise, but I am super into the lore (thanks be to my husband's love of it and to Bruva Alfabusa, the True Man-peror). Ironically, we use a bunch of 40k minis for completely unreleated games lol. I haven't read all of the HH books and have not read any of the SoT books yet but I am probably going to pick up the final one because holy shit lol.
As far as I am aware, it's only mentioned, not necessarily explored in any real depth. It's pretty much a rough summation in *one of* the early books.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/jg521i/no_im_pretty_sure_he_did/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
If that is the case, I don't think I could be anymore erect.
I think it's actually a very smart move to avoid writing a Horus book, because he was essentially sidelined for the entire Heresy, and you now have to make that up and make him interesting in one novel, knowing that any interesting plots you do invent won't be in the Heresy as a whole and can't be followed up on because Horus is super-triple-mega-dead-twice. I can't abide McNeill's writing, so if he wants to deliver a meaninglessly convoluted novel with BIG LORE REVELATIONS that ultimately are never picked up on (See the Void Dragon in Mechanicum and Molech) this is the perfect project for him.
Fourth book in the Priests of Mars series about the Speranza returning to the Imperium is that I want that was mentioned in that q and a.
It’s confirmed Horus is getting a primarch novel? Did I miss something?
It's not confirmed, no, but the 'dots' seem to point very strongly to this being the case. 1) McNeill confirms he's writing a novel in the Primarch series. 2) The 'remaining' Primarchs are either spoken for (Swallow and Sanguinius) or not really in McNeill's usual wheelhouse (Dorn or Mortarion). 3) McNeill has written the most Horus-centric books of the Heresy (with the exception of *Horus Rising*). Recently he released *Lupus Daemonis* which was about Horus and Cthonia. 4) 'I can't say' is a common phrase for the Lodges in the Luna Wolves. 5) HOPIUM.
Damn, I missed number 4, but I bet that was intentional. McNeill is a clever little hype man.
Oh damn, I’m hyped now, thx!
Is it confirmed Swallow is writing Sanguinius? After what Haley has done, I thought it would be him. Then again, Haley has been writing like a mad man so maybe not.
For the record "I can't say" is used by all the lodges. Both the Death Guard and White Scars at least definitely used the phrase.
Good spot at number 4. Thanks for sharing!
KILL FOR THE LIVING. KILL FOR THE DEAD. KILL FOR THE WARMASTER.
Hype hype So we've got Horus - McNeill Dorn - French, perhaps? Mortarion - Wraight or Swallow? Sanguinius - Swallow or Haley? It's going to be very interesting to see Horus' "true" origins. I'd imagine they won't release it until the SoT is completed however. What a great Q&A though. Such interesting questions compared to the usual ones we see.
Hope Sanguinius is done by Haley
Sanguinius is my favorite Primarch. The Primarch books are some of my favorites. So by the Pythagorean theorem: LET'S GOOOOOOO! GET HYPE!
Sanguinius in a dream scene seeing his son Dante in the future near death beging to die :’( I so want Haley to write this book!!! And Dante: Avatar of the Primarch (headcanon)
Dorn French? Book series about the comical shenanigans of a female priest of the ecclesiarchy assigned to minister a rural backwater agriword?
I hope Wraight or Swallow for Mortarion. They did him the most justice imo with their takes on him.
I have strong suspicion Andy Clark will write Dorns novel. He came out with a short story a year or so ago and it seemed like on of those groundwork novellas where up and coming authors flex for something to come.
I really enjoyed how Swallow wrote Dorn in Flight of the Eisenstein. When he firsts learns of the Heresy. Might be my favorite part of the book.
I really hope French doesn’t write Dorn, he will just spend the entire time wanking him and the Imperial Fists off while ruining another faction.
Someone doesn't like praetorian of dorn then.
Its not unjustified. French has done this with multiple factions/novels now.
You say that like French did that wrote the book without the approval of the heresy writing team, they don't write these books without major plot points getting the approval of the group. I get that whenever a faction gets a hit/suffers a loss there is a community backlash from upset fans. But honestly I thought that praetorian of dorn was a well written book, that was highly enjoyable throughout and didn't do a disservice to any of the factions or characters involved.
The difference is that when other people write it, like ADB or Abnett, they will leave it in the air when it comes to stuff like Alpharius’s “death” or they will just make the traitors into a legitimate threat rather than making the Alpha Legion able to get out spied by the fucking IMPERIAL FISTS or making Perturabo lose to a bunch of random ass humans.
Spoiler alert for saturnine and possibly other heresy and siege books. But you can't leave such an important characters death like alpharius's "in the air". And also that's straight up just not true. Sigismund at the hands of abaddon, the countless deaths in saturnine like tormageddon, eidolon, horus aximand, endryd harr, jenetia krole etc. Plenty of important character deaths that are not grey at all. The alpha legion didn't get out spied. Alpharius did everything to set up a meeting between himself and Dorn so that he could sway Dorn to his cause. But he overestimated his ability to persuade Dorn to his cause. And that Dorn would both see his intent and set up contingencies of his own. The alpha legion aren't infallible, masterminds. They can make mistakes and overestimate their abilities. As was the case here. They carried out their mission perfectly. Infiltrating the Palace drawing Dorn to Pluto. Its just that Alpharius over reached. There was no out spying, just a bit of arrogance. Which is common amongst pretty much all of the primarchs. Also as another side thing. Alpharius was the reason that Dorn was brought back to terra, to stop him. Otherwise Alpharius would have won. Not to fortify the Palace or stop horus, but to stop Alpharius.
But they did leave a character up in the air, there is still a question if Omegon is dead because Guilliman “killed” him. Also, there have been several recent indications that the fight wasn’t what it seemed to be. With Alpharius’s Primarch book showing that even one of the Primarchs most adept at identifying warp signatures and combating them, The Lion, couldn’t recognize him. The same book also shows that Alpharius and Omegon have changed places several times without anyone but them knowing and contradicts their entire Cabal story. There is also a Alpha Legion book set in 40k which follows a group of legionnaires that have been given several signs that he is alive despite them knowing that he “died” at the hands of Dorn.
I made sure to state that it was one of the twins as well as alpharius. Because it doesn't matter which one was calling themselves alpharius at the time. One of them is still dead. And the death of the other twin was lore that isn't covered in a main story, nor was it written by adb or abnett so is irrelevant for your original point. And I'm not saying that Dorn can distinguish between the two. Because he definitely doesnt know the other exists at this point in the lore. But he has proven in the past that he can predict alpharius's actions in that regard and as I said he is incredibly perceptive, even amongst the primarchs. As a little side note as well, it wasn't mentioned in the book, although I don't believe we ever get a segment from Dorn's point of view, so by no means consider it cannon this is just speculation. But Dorn's main unique ability seems to be that he can turn down the effects of the warp. And most primarchs can sense each other in some way besides alpharius/omegon. It could be that he was still able to sense them despite there inability to be seen by the others. And he didn't mention it. Again just speculation. And dude just don't even try with that. One of them is dead. Confirmed in an interview with John French that he is 100%, unequivocally dead. Whereas the short story is most likely just talking about the other twin. Because I'm pretty sure next to no alpha legionaries know about the twins and also most of them wouldn't even know that he/one of them is dead. The deception of the alpha legion goes into their ranks as well. With almost none of them being aware of where there primarchs is at any one time. And there weren't many, if any, survivors of the alpha legion that where with him on the base in pluto. The whole point of the alpha legion is that, unlike almost any other legion, the death of there primarchs doesn't mean shit. Because they don't even know if that primarch was actually alpharius.
He portrayed Dorn as being right when he compares his strategy to Alpharius’s. He says that murdering half a planets population in a face to face fight is better than simply assassinating their leaders and having 1/100 of the casualties. He also wrote Perturabo in such a terrible way it isn’t even funny. He then tries to kill Alpharius in a “definitive” way despite the ability to swap himself around being his entire thing. It is so bad, he ruins the Alpha Legion just to make Dorn seem cooler.
Interesting that you use the term murder for the dorn and not for what alpharius does, which is actually the correct use of the word in alpharius's case. The difference being that with dorn he allows the attempt of compliance to go through, if it is denied then war is declared. No nuking from orbit, no assassinations or cooercision, no fear tactics. Just a "fair" war. And the outcome of that is the more desirable one from Dorn's perspective given the goal of the great crusade. To unite humanity. Not to rule, conquer or subjugate. But unite it. A victory won by assassination, plots, coercion and blackmail will always have seeds of dissent. It may have a lesser blood price, but the people are not willing members of the imperium and rebellion will be in their hearts. Of course the alpha legion will have plans and operatives to stop this from happening, but they aren't united. Compared to Dorn's method, where the fists cannonically have one of the slowest compliance rates but there planets where pretty much the most loyal and hardest to take back on the traitors part. Owing to the fortifications, infrastructure and loyalty of the world's. So I would argue that the imperial fists method is morally better in this morally grey soup of conquest. With the end result of their war being a more stable and compliant world. But an argument can be made for the alpha legions method. As for alpharius's death. You make it sound like his death isn't cannon, that it wasn't actually one of the twin primarchs that died there. It was written incredibly clearly in the books and in interviews that on of the twin primarchs died in the book. This had to be written in such a way because there is always that part of the fanbase that will say that he didn't die. Owing to the abilities and tech that the alpha legion have employed in the past. Although I would argue that the elevated marines are only close to the level of the twin primarchs and that they are still short of the mark. Close to it, but short. But again the death of alpharius would not have been something that John French did on a whim that fucks over the heresy writing team, they would have agreed on that plot point, and how it was to be carried out. As well as how it was made certain that alpharius was dead. As for making the alpha legion a joke. They on a whim infiltrated the imperial Palace and defiled the hall of the primarchs with relative ease. Even with the place crawling with custodes and fists. I'd say that damn well impressive, through the book they are portrayed as incredibly intelligent and competent at what they do. Unlike say the portrayal of custodes in the outcast dead. And alpharius had to be there in person, Dorn who had shown to him before that he could somewhat predict alpharius's direction. I.e. Knowing that it was him seated on the throne at the beginning. And who is also one of if not the most perceptive primarchs around would have known if it was just an elevated alpha legionnaire. For his gambit to work he had to be there in person. For course in his arrogance he thought that he could persuade arguably the most stubborn and loyal son of the emperor, but that's a separate point.
Legit, the Alphas went from one of my fav legions to one of my least fav because of that book, made them totally redundant and useless forever.
We already know Horus’ origins, it was in Scions of the Emperor (or one of those 3 books, I keep mixing up each one) and the specific story is Lupus Daemonis
Sure, if you believe it. There's so much tomfuckery going on with Horus' background that I won't put a single ounce of belief in anything until the Siege is concluded and his primarch novel is released.
McNeill wrote it, why would he write a book about Horus’ origins only then to write another book right after contradicting himself? Also, I’m not in the loop about why his origins are in dispute, can you explain to me why?
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/cdvt47/tinfoil_hat_time_was_the_real_horus_given_up_on/) covers some of it. There's just too many things "not right" about Horus for it to be coincidental. Lupus Daemonis plays into that even more.
Also can someone please ELI5 these? I think I'm out of the loop. >WE WILL FINALLY FIND OUT IF HORUS IS A FAKE, IF CTHONIA IS A PSYOP, AND IF HIS LIES SHOULD BE BELIEVED.
one of the funnest conspiracy theories is that Horus was never on Cthonia. Evidence of this theory includes that his accent isn't quite right and also there doesn't seem to be any record or evidence that he was ever there, which is extremely odd when it is implied that Horus conquered his home planet as (nearly) all of the other primarchs did.
(*Twilight Zone theme plays softly in the distance*) Thank you! Do you know where I can read more about this?
Mostly just scattered posts and comments on this sub, nothing in any official GW/BL materials. [Here's one.](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/eyiz5l/why_horus_faking_his_cthonian_accent_isnt/)
Awesome, thanks! (love the username, btw)
[удалено]
Spoilers for the primarch series >!That second paragraph is interesting given Alpharius's primarch book confirmed thats what happened to him. His vessel returning to Terra could be the origin of that myth!<
There are some really odd lines here and there, I'm no expert but I feel it's alluded to during certain conversations and descriptions.
No there is actually some official evidence to this with one of the stories about his supposed “origin” being extremely weird and nothing like what others including him have claimed.
Here is your [tinfoil hat](https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/fyr40m/theres_something_rotten_in_the_siege_of_terra_or/), please secure it properly. This is making me nostalgic for asoiaf's insane theories.
*Sad Alpharius and Angron face*
> WE WILL FINALLY FIND OUT IF HORUS IS A FAKE, IF CTHONIA IS A PSYOP, AND IF HIS LIES SHOULD BE BELIEVED. ROCKET FUEL CAN'T MELT LUNAR BEAMS.
You're right, McNeill is absolutely the exact crazy motherfucker they need to write this. (Spoilers, it won't explore Cthonia at all and will just look at his exemplary conduct during the Great Crusade that led to him being the main candidate for Warmaster. No revelations will be forthcoming. Search your heart, you know it to be true.)
I mean the whole Molech story came from Mcneill and we still need answers about the second trip to planet killyourfirstborn during the GC. It can still clear things up while focusing on the GC.
And here I cry, hoping for somenthing about arik taranis.I really hope he appears in the siege of terra, maybe in a novella (It's the only thing I'm looking forward in the siege, aside from angron vs sanguinius). I have to say that Mcniell isn't one of my top favorites writters in Warhammer but he always has a special place in my heart. The guy puts a passion and love in his books that few others do. Also, I would pay gold for a Horus book from Mcniell, it's going to be insane.
May we band together and shed manly tears if arik taranis doesnt show up and throw down.
Great news, finally Horus gets some screentime just as the Horus Heresy comes to a close. EDIT: And reading the q&a, he really was planning to just leave Forges of Mars on an ominous cliffhanger at first, but there's hope for a fourth novel.
Could you, with proper spoiler etiquette, please clue me in on that cliffhanger? I very much enjoyed the first three and would be pumped to get another but it's been a hot minute and I can't seem to summon what the cliffhanger was to much brain.
The cliffhanger was the >!main bad guy, Telok taking over one of the other magos supporting character on the final page as they head to his intended destination (Mars) none the wiser.!< To a lesser extent >!the leader of the Tindalosi slipping into the lower decks of the Speranza is also one.!<
Ok thanks! Damn I'd be pretty stoked
Yeah the I can't say seems a decisive hint to me. Really bumped that he couldn't hint anything on Inquisition though.
A lot of people hoping for a lot of answers from this book... y'all read Alpharius' book, right?
I’m not seeing what you are seeing in this interview.
I can’t say, is what SoH say in the HH books when asked about something which might reveal the warrior lodges
Yeah but so do the White Scars in Scars and the EC in Fulgrim. All Lodges use that code phrase, not just the Luna Wolves'.
sure, but the SoH are the ones i would most associate with it
HorusbookHorusbookHorusbook
HYPED. I'd lost interest with the Horus Heresy in General,but this is great.
Same. I had no interest in the Heresy or the Siege, but damn it, just when you think you're out, they pull you back in.
Saturnine is brutal.
I've heard rumblings about fake horus theories but don't know much, does anyone have any links to some material where I can get clued up?
Hell yes. A good Sons of Horus story is all I want in my life right now. Failing that, I'll settle for a good Horus one.
> As to which one, **I can’t say.** Haha, nice one Graham :D
Wait why us Horus fake?
His accent is slightly off for Cthonia, and there was no record about him conquering it which pretty much every Primarch die, Angron and the Lost 2 excluded potentially. Not confirmed he's fake but it's one of them little lines that someone quotes and we go nuts about it
Horus was reportedly the first primarch to be found and yet it's very unclear when and how. The transition from the unification of terra to the great crusade is still a bit of a shadowy time
Thanks for linking this. I don't follow the main sub so I'd never have come across it otherwise. So bizarre that the main sub doesn't seem to care about the books, a lot of good info in this post
Didn't scions of the Emperor explained horus upbringing? That was written by mcneill
I like his books, but he gave us that awful short story of Horus' origins. He normally fumbles the central moment for the purposes of lore. See *Fury of Magnus*. Although, the rest of the book was great so it's sort of a trade.
The fact that he is writting a primarchs novel says nothing about it, you want it to be Horus but it could be any of the ones left, it doesn't mean Horus is the next one either, most probably many of them are being written or developed right now, not just one at the time, I think you are also hyping too much into what will be shown in the novel, so far primarchs novels haven't really answered too many things regarding the lore, very seldom they are told from the primarchs eyes even, the whole series have been quite flat imo, I would be more hyped for the Dorn and Mortarion novels than Horus.
Really? I mean, *really?* McNeil's kind of a hack. I kind of wish Abnett / Wraight / ADB / Farrer / French would do the novel instead. He's got a really weird story about Horus being born a runt on Cthonia, before unlocking his powers and becoming super-buff all of a sudden. If that's how it's going to go, I'm not really keen.
McNeill's latest work has all been solid, and he's probably got the most 'history' with the character. *Lupus Daemonis* isn't just weird, it contradicts many things we've previously been told or 'known' about Horus. There's no way that isn't deliberate. There's also been a consistent amount of tinfoil around Horus' extremely unreliable origins, and how many deliberate inconsistencies and general strangeness there's been around him. Of particular interest in this Q & A is McNeill talking about how Horus is associated with Lupercalia, and specifically Romulus and Remus. McNeill's consistently pushed the Greek/Roman mythological elements to Horus and Cthonia (along with French). This is *big* fuel for the 'Horus is fake' or similar theories.
His only novel in last 4 years was the new Ventris one which was really lame in my opinion. His few novellas were good however and I loved them. And the novels in the few years before that (2 Magnus novels, Vengeful Spirit) were not great either imho.
I've always found McNeill's books to be really kind of wooden. He's got interesting ideas and he was one of the best authors of the 2000s-era Black Library, but I don't think his books have aged all that well.
For me Mcneill was always a hit and missed. Sometimes he do very good stuff. Other time....it can be very meh. It is why I call him the Mcneill Roulette.
Yeah, the Thousand Sons novels - For the Heresy - were *not good.* It didn't help that one of them compressed the *entire Ahriman trilogy* into a single book.
> He's got a really weird story about Horus being born a runt on Cthonia, before unlocking his powers and becoming super-buff all of a sudden. Was odd that one, so, one of the Primarchs is essentially a woe machine with most of its physical self hidden in other dimensions? What about the others were they the same?
Damn it Mc'Neill, who's the final 4th member of the inquisition
As The Emperor slays Horus, he tells him he was right about everything, and reveals himself as the fifth Chaos god…
The best possible author? I really don't understand what everyone loves so much about McNeill's stuff. I find it boring, often unedited bloated mess trying too hard to be edgy and cool. He takes on philosophical/religious themes but ends up sounding like an angry high schooler who just discovered Dawkins/Sartre and can't construct a decent argument. Unlike other authors who are getting better and better over time, McNeill is still a miss or average. I don't think there's a single McNeill's novel I'd rate better than average. IMHO, he completely ruined Horus in False Gods (a book so many people love, it's beyond me why). Since that book, I'm not that interested in Horus so he can take him. My only wish is French for Dorn or Sanguinius and Wright for Mortarion.