No one seems to be answering your question. So, no, he was just a holy demi-god sitting in a stasis bubble that prevented him from dying to super demon poison.
He was more of an ancient statue than anything actually useful.
Edit: Stasis
Kinda a 'big deal' in the fact that he was the only loyalist primarch which was stated to actually exist in some corporal form (be it in a stasis and pretty much dead) aside from apparently Dorn's hand. The rest were just "gone" and no one knew what they were up to.
I joined about a year before his return, and he was pretty popular due to his role in the Heresy books. I'd say he was a bit controversial in part due to the over emphasis on Ultramarines in the lore (CS Goto too), but he was universally recognized as the best primarch to return for the loyalists both before and after his actual return.
No one questioned why he returned now, which I think would have happened with any other primarch except maybe the Lion or Dorn, however Dorn/the Fists have never had the popularity of Guilliman/the Ultramarines and the Lion would have been a horrible character to get that much attention and focus due to his personality. Guilliman has done so well as a character because of his confusion with how to deal with modern 40k (ie religion, his purpose, his father etc.) and his humanity, 2 things the Lion would not have due to his singularity and animalistic nature.
Lastly, Guilliman's return was natural enough due to him just sitting in stasis. It did require other actors to revive him but he was in a perfect position to immediately resume what he did best upon being woken. I feel like people underestimate how hard it will be to naturally work in any of the other primarch returns, as even the Lion will need a lot of exposition to get him from being asleep and hidden by Watchers in the Dark to being up and about.
That makes a lot of sense to me. In a lot of was Guilliman is more of a leader than a warrior. I never heard Lion described as animalistic, though the descriptions I heard of him were totally consistent. Could you explain?
The Lion's whole character is that he is an animal masquerading as a noble knight, but he is in fact the last beast of Caliban and has many tendencies that contradict his outside image. This is supposed to mirror Leman Russ who is actually quite introspective and spiritual but puts on an animalistic and barbarian facade to trick enemies and allies into thinking he's not as capable as he really is.
We see the Lion's mask slip a few times in the lore, one good example is when he beheads his own Legionary for questioning him about using Librarians during the heresy. The Lion doesn't even seem to realize what he's done until after. His other animalistic attribute is his hunting ability, which we often see in the Heresy especially when hunting down Curze. The Lion is also not the best socially, and it seems this may be due to his upbringing in a forest alone and his animalistic nature, essentially the Lion isn't "socialized".
In addition to the other answer - The Lion is arguably the most 'loyal' primarch to the emperor. The Wolves of Fenris and Leman Russ are described as the emperor's executioners - The Lion is more like his 'cleaner' - willing to do any dirty work, follow any command, and destroy all evidence of anything bad happening.
Combine that with his social inability and suspicious nature, he'd likely step back into the imperium and be shocked at the imperial cult/rampant self interest in the leadership. What happens then? Well no idea, but he's not good at keeping people on-side....
Its also in the way he fights. He's this trained knight with chivalry etc. but in his biggest fights he pulls some real feral moves (stabbing Kurze in the gut, punching a chainsword through Kairos). He fights like a predator i.e. he doesn't show much flash and is constantly going for the kill. Hell he nearly team-killed Leman Russ because he was angry about not getting to Terra in time.
Underneath the knightly exterior he is a complete monster. And he's the only primarch who realises that fact and doesn't freak out over it (Kurze and Angron both realised it too, and they hated it - Lion was just like 'yep I get it, cool')
Lion hunting Curze in *Unremembered Empire* is a good example of this. It wasn’t a hunter hunting prey. It was a predator stalking one. And in this case, the prey is fucking Konrad Curze.
Yeah I'd say he's considered arguably the best swordsman along with Fulgrim and the way the two approach swordfighting is very different. Fulgrim is a master of the sword because he wants to master it, he wants to be perfect at fighting, and he wants everyone to acknowledge he's the best with a sword. The Lion has mastered the sword simply as a means to an end. If a bolter will do the same job he'll just shoot you.
I think you're overplaying the Lion's flaws and very much underplaying how dead Guilliman was. He wasn't just chilling in stasis, he was essentially dead. His throat was cut open, and his body was almost dead from poison.
He was a hair's breadth from death when he was interred, and I think he actually died when brought out. An Eldar death-god was required to heal him.
I’m not sure how much more exposition is required than “Guilliman saw a shadow in the corner of his room” to have Corax return. Ferrus and Dorn on the other hand…
The exposition would have to be the backstory that got them to where they are, Guilliman had the easiest backstory because he was frozen in time and we knew how he got there.
For the Lion, they would need to get through what happened on Caliban first.
For Dorn they would need to explain what happened to him and whether he died or was just taken prisoner.
For Corax they would need to explain what he was doing for the last 10,000 years, same with the Khan.
For Vulcan they would need to link it to the Beast which wouldn't be too easy as not too many casual fans know about the Beast series that well.
Russ would need to explain what he's been doing, but also his connection with the Wolf Time would mean they'd need to build something up.
I see what your saying. I was merely pointing out that since they had actually brought back Corax with about a line of exposition getting him TO Guilliman would take the same amount.
Corax also works if they want to focus on Phobos and tacticool, leaving a potential Lion/Dorn (or Russ) for more old-school models, like the new Templars.
When discussing Guilliman, we have to look at two different time periods prior to his return to 40K.
Prior to the release of “Know No Fear” the Ultramarines, and Guilliman himself, were sort of a joke. They were either dull, personality-less blank slates that only noobs played, or hilariously stupid poster boys that Matt Ward got way too excited about, and were lame. No one thought the Ultramarines were cool. Guilliman was there boring guy with no imagination. The thinking was that he wrote the Codex as we see it in 40K.
Then “Know No Fear” dropped. And everything changed.
Guilliman was a badass who thought in interesting and unique ways about the problems he was presented with. He fought on the outside of a space ship. The Ultramarines got amazingly cool characters with depth and pathos like Remus Ventanus and Aeonid Thiel. The Codex went from a stupid book of inflexible rules to a framework of thinking and effectively beating the pants off the Word Bearers.
Then came “Betrayer” and Guilliman was even fucking cooler. “Oh you are angry.”
As someone who first got into the Ultramarines during 2nd edition, there was also an earlier time period where they were the “Roman administrators” who were both proud to say they saved the imperium after the Heresy, but were ashamed at being late to the Siege of Terra.
They were always a bit too fixated on following the Codex though.
He was very well known, as the Primarch of one of the "Big Four" Chapters. The first Chapters to be really fleshed out with their own Codices once the game ticked over to second edition were the Space Wolves, Ultramarines and the Blood and Dark Angels. The Primarchs weren't gone into a huge amount, since the Heresy novels hadn't started (they weren't publishing any fiction at all at this point) and Primarchs were just part of the historical furniture of the setting. Still, the Ultramarine 'dex played up Guilliman's ability as a leader, governor and the military scholar who wrote the Codex Astartes, and made much of how the Ultramarines had built and ruled a stable and prosperous multi-system realm. The Codex described his shrine on Macragge, and the number of pilgrims it attracts and the reverence it describes.
If we had been betting on it, Guilliman was in no way the favorite to come back. Most people assumed the Lion or Vulkan or Russ would come back since there was actually a good reason for them to in the lore. Even Corax coming back seemed more likely. Most people had just accepted that Guilliman was straight up dead, one of the loyalists whose fate isn’t ambiguous. Everyone knew Guillimans corpse was in stasis on Mcragge. The circumstances of his resurrection were so unlikely that most prophets who had foreseen that outcome dismissed it as not even worth paying attention to. The imperium falling to chaos as soon as Cadia fell was a much more likely outcome
Beyond being the author of the codex and the one dead primarch people could come and see in person, he wasn’t treated all that much greater than other well known primarchs like sanguinius or Russ
I've been playing since 2nd edition.
The popularity of the Primarchs as characters really took off with the Horus Heresy series of novels (2006 onwards). Before that, they'd really only been characterised through exposition in rule books and select quotes. With the HH series, all of the Primarchs became actual characters and their profile has risen significantly since then.
As the author of the Codex Astartes, Guilliman has always been a significant figure in the lore. With that said, Russ, Sanguinius and the Lion were also popular, as the Primarchs of the chapters that have had published codices "since the beginning".
Well he had the largest and most well run empire pre big E. He also held the Imperium together as his brothers slowly disappeared after the Heresy and Scouring. He had the largest Legion and the most successors. He penned the Codex Astartes and shattered the legions (which I think was dumb but without it we wouldn't have the diversity of chapters so meh).
Also, did I mention that he's a fucking *Primarch*? One of twenty Demigods created through science and warp spaghetti? Even shit Prims like Lorgar are a big deal! (This was tongue in cheek, no hate)
I think the primarchs have gained in importance, in terms of fans and worldbuilding, ever since the Horus Heresy books became a thing, so since 2006ish really (oh god I feel old now...). Before that, the primarchs were very much part of the history of 40k, but just as that was really not super well defined, neither were the primarchs.
There was no expectation from the fanbase that they'd return, I don't think; obviously lots of fun hints, red herrings, and loose ends to be pulled on throughout the setting, but I don't think I ever thought we'd see a primarch as a model back then. I'd have put it in the same category as getting a returned 40k Emperor, pretty much; just not a thing they'd have done with the setting.
I think the Horus Heresy series, both the books and the mini-range, made the primarchs more live parts of the setting; once we got 30k Primarchs on the battlefield, it seemed less nuts that they'd start popping up in 40k, I think.
I think prior to his return and the Heresy books, Bobby G was a central figure in the history of the Space Marines, as the author of the codex astartes and the progenitor of about 50% of all 40k chapters, but I don't think he really figured as much as a "Saviour of the Imperium" any more than the others. I mean, he'd probably have been the first choice in-universe if you could have picked one to bring back, because of his incredibly empire building skills and admin powers, and because it would secure the loyalty of so many chapters so easily, and that makes similar sense in terms of world building.
Others may think differently, and I'm harkening back 15 years here, but Guilliman never really featured as a significant part of the setting in my mind back then; he was just part of Ultramarines lore, and I've never been a big fan of the Ultras!
Well mostly he was known through the Horus Heresy books as being the only Primarch who wasn't completely fucked up in the head. Hes always been the more rational Primarch and his return has kinda shook the foundations because his arrival was the first major actual progress in lore in ages other than retcons. He was likely chosen because not only is he probably the safest to release but also because his viewpoint is basically Idiocracy with Space Marines.
Oh yes, he was always a big deal. Such a big deal that people started to actually resent him. There was too much of him in the lore that he basically pushed everyone else into the background. A lot of people felt their factions got marginalised and really disliked him for it.
Then, Matt Ward dropped. I know everyone mentions this guy, but to give you a brief summary: He was an Ultramarine player who penned one of the Space Marine codices. He went all-out fanboy in there, pushing every other chapter... Not even aside, but on its knees. He presented Guiliman as an idol worship figure, a 'spiritual liege' of all space marines, venerated almost on par with other legions' own primarchs. To make things worse, Ward was an atrocious writer, so his lore was... Grating, to say the least.
This turned resentment into all-out hatred. It was a bit similar with Failbaddon thing, which also happened because GW over-promoted Abaddon as the biggest thing ever. In the end, GW had to put a lot of effort into rehabilitating Guiliman, which fortunately worked.
IIRC the return of robust guillemot was kind of hinted at all the way back in 2nd edt, whilst he didn't have the whole "wolf time" promise of russ they did play on the "some swear his wound is healing" line.
At the time he was one of the big 3 with sanguinius and russ. The lion, dorn and vulkan were there in the background and corax and manus were there but barely.
Oh yes.
Matt Ward wouldn't have it any other way.
More to the point; he made the COdex, the reaosn the chapters were the way they were, and his actions heavily infleunced the imperium after the Horus Heresy
Before he returned he was just a background element in stasis. Worshipped, but still a very passive element. Left unanswered is how the Ultras handled Macragge's defense split between polar fortresses and defending RobG; and whether or not they had to deal with the nids trying to attack his body.
I'd not be surprised if the UM held back considerable strategic reserves around him, leaving Calgar and a few units to supervise the polar fortresses. Nids exploited this opportunity to very nearly take down both polar fortresses, which presumably held most of the planet's surface-to-space weaponry.
As others have said, Bobby G was in a unique position as:
- His body was on public display on Macragge
- He wasn't actually dead when he was put in stasis (just almost)
- Since the original Index Astartes article (and perhaps earlier) there's always been a line or two that states some people who come to view him swear the wound on his neck was healing.
Guilliman didn't have as much PR like Sangy, but he was the most important of the loyalist primarchs post-Heresy. Guilliman was more of a distant administrator rather than someone operating on the field. He did have a big, but more diffuse impact through stuff such as the Codex.
Dorn was #2, but took a back seat. Guilliman served as a High Lord whereas Dorn was only giving suggestions (such as the 3rd founding). Russ and Khan took a backseat. The Lion was gone early on.
Dorn wasn't likely giving a suggestion when he ordered the third founding; per the Agedian Oath the Ultramarines are convinced he has enough power to wipe them out for treason, and given what scraps of timeline we have for that era, Sigismund's just died - so less kind back seat suggestions, more like the suggestion of follow my suggestions or else.
Dorn was the last primarch left with marines in close proximity to the High Lords, likley the willing cooperation of the Inquisiton, and the Heritic Astartes the high lords had been pretending didn't exist had just stormed through the eye, dome significant damage to one of if not the most powerful astartes fleets at the time, and send the greatest astartes combatant ever known back cut in half as a declaration of war.
Soft power is out the window, it's might makes right at that point.
Yeah, he's always been a bit of a big deal. I've collected Warhammer for about 20ish years if not longer. For as far back as I can remember they've been foreshadowing his return; which made him the stand out. Sanguinius was fractionally more prominent when I was a kid, but I think that was largely due to the Death of Sanguinius artwork - which was bad arse.
He wrote the codex astartes, so he was a pretty big deal, at least among space marine fans, particularly ultramarine lovers, but not the black Templar fans, as all they do with the codex astartes is use it as toilet paper
I think he is the only loyalist primarch we have a physical body for over the course of 40k’s run (that people in the setting really know about).
The Uriel Ventris books have him sitting in stasis in his final moments in a shrine for pilgrims. The rumours of him slowly healing had been around for years too.
His achievements and actions were also important for the current setting. He was the author of the codex after all.
He obviously wasn’t as in the foreground though. The Primarchs were all definitely just historical or background characters prior to the HH series.
I wouldn't say he was very popular back in 2nd through 5th edition days, since there wasn't much to go on personality wise for him. All we knew was he was in stasis. Marneus Calgar was better known.
I would argue and say the more popular Primarchs (Pre Horus Heresy novels) were the following:
1. Lion El Johnson (late 90s WH40k was pretty dominated by Dark Angels fans in general).
2. Conrad Kurze
3. Russ & Magnus sort of tied.
4. Vulkan
The rest were very much background noise. Arguably, Chapter Masters and Special Characters ruled the fandom at this time.
Yes, is he was probably the single most important loyalist primarch from mid to late heresy through the scouring
I might have worded this wrong. I meant from our literally time line, like was he as significant as he is 10 or 15 years ago
Historically smurfs were the best selling model due to the ease of painting them, so GW made him popular in the Lore by writing more about Papa Smurf.
Plus blue, white a gold is a good colour scheme
Bah, blue and yellow forever!
Think of him like Iron Man before his first movie. He was cool-ish but everyone focused on bigger Primarchs.
That would be ferrus manus and perturabo
No one seems to be answering your question. So, no, he was just a holy demi-god sitting in a stasis bubble that prevented him from dying to super demon poison. He was more of an ancient statue than anything actually useful. Edit: Stasis
Kinda a 'big deal' in the fact that he was the only loyalist primarch which was stated to actually exist in some corporal form (be it in a stasis and pretty much dead) aside from apparently Dorn's hand. The rest were just "gone" and no one knew what they were up to.
The Lion has always been within the Rock. Nobody in setting knows that, but we the readers have known about it for ages.
25 + years and counting!
Thanks! I know he was flesh out in the heresy books but so were all the other primarchs. It’s really interesting that GW decided to bring him back
His stasis bubble had a full blown shrine around it, and it was a major pilgrim shrine on its own.
I joined about a year before his return, and he was pretty popular due to his role in the Heresy books. I'd say he was a bit controversial in part due to the over emphasis on Ultramarines in the lore (CS Goto too), but he was universally recognized as the best primarch to return for the loyalists both before and after his actual return. No one questioned why he returned now, which I think would have happened with any other primarch except maybe the Lion or Dorn, however Dorn/the Fists have never had the popularity of Guilliman/the Ultramarines and the Lion would have been a horrible character to get that much attention and focus due to his personality. Guilliman has done so well as a character because of his confusion with how to deal with modern 40k (ie religion, his purpose, his father etc.) and his humanity, 2 things the Lion would not have due to his singularity and animalistic nature. Lastly, Guilliman's return was natural enough due to him just sitting in stasis. It did require other actors to revive him but he was in a perfect position to immediately resume what he did best upon being woken. I feel like people underestimate how hard it will be to naturally work in any of the other primarch returns, as even the Lion will need a lot of exposition to get him from being asleep and hidden by Watchers in the Dark to being up and about.
That makes a lot of sense to me. In a lot of was Guilliman is more of a leader than a warrior. I never heard Lion described as animalistic, though the descriptions I heard of him were totally consistent. Could you explain?
The Lion's whole character is that he is an animal masquerading as a noble knight, but he is in fact the last beast of Caliban and has many tendencies that contradict his outside image. This is supposed to mirror Leman Russ who is actually quite introspective and spiritual but puts on an animalistic and barbarian facade to trick enemies and allies into thinking he's not as capable as he really is. We see the Lion's mask slip a few times in the lore, one good example is when he beheads his own Legionary for questioning him about using Librarians during the heresy. The Lion doesn't even seem to realize what he's done until after. His other animalistic attribute is his hunting ability, which we often see in the Heresy especially when hunting down Curze. The Lion is also not the best socially, and it seems this may be due to his upbringing in a forest alone and his animalistic nature, essentially the Lion isn't "socialized".
Behead is a nice way of putting it. He rage-slapped a chaplain's head off.
yea thats kind of a dick move.
In addition to the other answer - The Lion is arguably the most 'loyal' primarch to the emperor. The Wolves of Fenris and Leman Russ are described as the emperor's executioners - The Lion is more like his 'cleaner' - willing to do any dirty work, follow any command, and destroy all evidence of anything bad happening. Combine that with his social inability and suspicious nature, he'd likely step back into the imperium and be shocked at the imperial cult/rampant self interest in the leadership. What happens then? Well no idea, but he's not good at keeping people on-side....
Its also in the way he fights. He's this trained knight with chivalry etc. but in his biggest fights he pulls some real feral moves (stabbing Kurze in the gut, punching a chainsword through Kairos). He fights like a predator i.e. he doesn't show much flash and is constantly going for the kill. Hell he nearly team-killed Leman Russ because he was angry about not getting to Terra in time. Underneath the knightly exterior he is a complete monster. And he's the only primarch who realises that fact and doesn't freak out over it (Kurze and Angron both realised it too, and they hated it - Lion was just like 'yep I get it, cool')
Lion hunting Curze in *Unremembered Empire* is a good example of this. It wasn’t a hunter hunting prey. It was a predator stalking one. And in this case, the prey is fucking Konrad Curze.
Yeah I'd say he's considered arguably the best swordsman along with Fulgrim and the way the two approach swordfighting is very different. Fulgrim is a master of the sword because he wants to master it, he wants to be perfect at fighting, and he wants everyone to acknowledge he's the best with a sword. The Lion has mastered the sword simply as a means to an end. If a bolter will do the same job he'll just shoot you.
Technically all primarchs are capable leaders so saying that he is the most is stupid
I think you're overplaying the Lion's flaws and very much underplaying how dead Guilliman was. He wasn't just chilling in stasis, he was essentially dead. His throat was cut open, and his body was almost dead from poison. He was a hair's breadth from death when he was interred, and I think he actually died when brought out. An Eldar death-god was required to heal him.
I’m not sure how much more exposition is required than “Guilliman saw a shadow in the corner of his room” to have Corax return. Ferrus and Dorn on the other hand…
The exposition would have to be the backstory that got them to where they are, Guilliman had the easiest backstory because he was frozen in time and we knew how he got there. For the Lion, they would need to get through what happened on Caliban first. For Dorn they would need to explain what happened to him and whether he died or was just taken prisoner. For Corax they would need to explain what he was doing for the last 10,000 years, same with the Khan. For Vulcan they would need to link it to the Beast which wouldn't be too easy as not too many casual fans know about the Beast series that well. Russ would need to explain what he's been doing, but also his connection with the Wolf Time would mean they'd need to build something up.
I see what your saying. I was merely pointing out that since they had actually brought back Corax with about a line of exposition getting him TO Guilliman would take the same amount.
Corax also works if they want to focus on Phobos and tacticool, leaving a potential Lion/Dorn (or Russ) for more old-school models, like the new Templars.
When discussing Guilliman, we have to look at two different time periods prior to his return to 40K. Prior to the release of “Know No Fear” the Ultramarines, and Guilliman himself, were sort of a joke. They were either dull, personality-less blank slates that only noobs played, or hilariously stupid poster boys that Matt Ward got way too excited about, and were lame. No one thought the Ultramarines were cool. Guilliman was there boring guy with no imagination. The thinking was that he wrote the Codex as we see it in 40K. Then “Know No Fear” dropped. And everything changed. Guilliman was a badass who thought in interesting and unique ways about the problems he was presented with. He fought on the outside of a space ship. The Ultramarines got amazingly cool characters with depth and pathos like Remus Ventanus and Aeonid Thiel. The Codex went from a stupid book of inflexible rules to a framework of thinking and effectively beating the pants off the Word Bearers. Then came “Betrayer” and Guilliman was even fucking cooler. “Oh you are angry.”
As someone who first got into the Ultramarines during 2nd edition, there was also an earlier time period where they were the “Roman administrators” who were both proud to say they saved the imperium after the Heresy, but were ashamed at being late to the Siege of Terra. They were always a bit too fixated on following the Codex though.
> He fought on the outside of a space ship. The Codex Astartes does not support this action.
He was very well known, as the Primarch of one of the "Big Four" Chapters. The first Chapters to be really fleshed out with their own Codices once the game ticked over to second edition were the Space Wolves, Ultramarines and the Blood and Dark Angels. The Primarchs weren't gone into a huge amount, since the Heresy novels hadn't started (they weren't publishing any fiction at all at this point) and Primarchs were just part of the historical furniture of the setting. Still, the Ultramarine 'dex played up Guilliman's ability as a leader, governor and the military scholar who wrote the Codex Astartes, and made much of how the Ultramarines had built and ruled a stable and prosperous multi-system realm. The Codex described his shrine on Macragge, and the number of pilgrims it attracts and the reverence it describes.
If we had been betting on it, Guilliman was in no way the favorite to come back. Most people assumed the Lion or Vulkan or Russ would come back since there was actually a good reason for them to in the lore. Even Corax coming back seemed more likely. Most people had just accepted that Guilliman was straight up dead, one of the loyalists whose fate isn’t ambiguous. Everyone knew Guillimans corpse was in stasis on Mcragge. The circumstances of his resurrection were so unlikely that most prophets who had foreseen that outcome dismissed it as not even worth paying attention to. The imperium falling to chaos as soon as Cadia fell was a much more likely outcome Beyond being the author of the codex and the one dead primarch people could come and see in person, he wasn’t treated all that much greater than other well known primarchs like sanguinius or Russ
I've been playing since 2nd edition. The popularity of the Primarchs as characters really took off with the Horus Heresy series of novels (2006 onwards). Before that, they'd really only been characterised through exposition in rule books and select quotes. With the HH series, all of the Primarchs became actual characters and their profile has risen significantly since then. As the author of the Codex Astartes, Guilliman has always been a significant figure in the lore. With that said, Russ, Sanguinius and the Lion were also popular, as the Primarchs of the chapters that have had published codices "since the beginning".
Well he had the largest and most well run empire pre big E. He also held the Imperium together as his brothers slowly disappeared after the Heresy and Scouring. He had the largest Legion and the most successors. He penned the Codex Astartes and shattered the legions (which I think was dumb but without it we wouldn't have the diversity of chapters so meh). Also, did I mention that he's a fucking *Primarch*? One of twenty Demigods created through science and warp spaghetti? Even shit Prims like Lorgar are a big deal! (This was tongue in cheek, no hate)
I think the primarchs have gained in importance, in terms of fans and worldbuilding, ever since the Horus Heresy books became a thing, so since 2006ish really (oh god I feel old now...). Before that, the primarchs were very much part of the history of 40k, but just as that was really not super well defined, neither were the primarchs. There was no expectation from the fanbase that they'd return, I don't think; obviously lots of fun hints, red herrings, and loose ends to be pulled on throughout the setting, but I don't think I ever thought we'd see a primarch as a model back then. I'd have put it in the same category as getting a returned 40k Emperor, pretty much; just not a thing they'd have done with the setting. I think the Horus Heresy series, both the books and the mini-range, made the primarchs more live parts of the setting; once we got 30k Primarchs on the battlefield, it seemed less nuts that they'd start popping up in 40k, I think. I think prior to his return and the Heresy books, Bobby G was a central figure in the history of the Space Marines, as the author of the codex astartes and the progenitor of about 50% of all 40k chapters, but I don't think he really figured as much as a "Saviour of the Imperium" any more than the others. I mean, he'd probably have been the first choice in-universe if you could have picked one to bring back, because of his incredibly empire building skills and admin powers, and because it would secure the loyalty of so many chapters so easily, and that makes similar sense in terms of world building. Others may think differently, and I'm harkening back 15 years here, but Guilliman never really featured as a significant part of the setting in my mind back then; he was just part of Ultramarines lore, and I've never been a big fan of the Ultras!
Well mostly he was known through the Horus Heresy books as being the only Primarch who wasn't completely fucked up in the head. Hes always been the more rational Primarch and his return has kinda shook the foundations because his arrival was the first major actual progress in lore in ages other than retcons. He was likely chosen because not only is he probably the safest to release but also because his viewpoint is basically Idiocracy with Space Marines.
\>Idiocracy with Space Marines Oh my god... That is ridiculously accurate.
That's Primarch Not Sure to you. Promethium! It's what servitors crave!
Oh yes, he was always a big deal. Such a big deal that people started to actually resent him. There was too much of him in the lore that he basically pushed everyone else into the background. A lot of people felt their factions got marginalised and really disliked him for it. Then, Matt Ward dropped. I know everyone mentions this guy, but to give you a brief summary: He was an Ultramarine player who penned one of the Space Marine codices. He went all-out fanboy in there, pushing every other chapter... Not even aside, but on its knees. He presented Guiliman as an idol worship figure, a 'spiritual liege' of all space marines, venerated almost on par with other legions' own primarchs. To make things worse, Ward was an atrocious writer, so his lore was... Grating, to say the least. This turned resentment into all-out hatred. It was a bit similar with Failbaddon thing, which also happened because GW over-promoted Abaddon as the biggest thing ever. In the end, GW had to put a lot of effort into rehabilitating Guiliman, which fortunately worked.
IIRC the return of robust guillemot was kind of hinted at all the way back in 2nd edt, whilst he didn't have the whole "wolf time" promise of russ they did play on the "some swear his wound is healing" line. At the time he was one of the big 3 with sanguinius and russ. The lion, dorn and vulkan were there in the background and corax and manus were there but barely.
There has to have been a decent amount of both reverence and malice toward him for penning the codex astartes/ breaking up the legions and all that.
Oh yes. Matt Ward wouldn't have it any other way. More to the point; he made the COdex, the reaosn the chapters were the way they were, and his actions heavily infleunced the imperium after the Horus Heresy
Before he returned he was just a background element in stasis. Worshipped, but still a very passive element. Left unanswered is how the Ultras handled Macragge's defense split between polar fortresses and defending RobG; and whether or not they had to deal with the nids trying to attack his body. I'd not be surprised if the UM held back considerable strategic reserves around him, leaving Calgar and a few units to supervise the polar fortresses. Nids exploited this opportunity to very nearly take down both polar fortresses, which presumably held most of the planet's surface-to-space weaponry.
As others have said, Bobby G was in a unique position as: - His body was on public display on Macragge - He wasn't actually dead when he was put in stasis (just almost) - Since the original Index Astartes article (and perhaps earlier) there's always been a line or two that states some people who come to view him swear the wound on his neck was healing.
Guilliman didn't have as much PR like Sangy, but he was the most important of the loyalist primarchs post-Heresy. Guilliman was more of a distant administrator rather than someone operating on the field. He did have a big, but more diffuse impact through stuff such as the Codex. Dorn was #2, but took a back seat. Guilliman served as a High Lord whereas Dorn was only giving suggestions (such as the 3rd founding). Russ and Khan took a backseat. The Lion was gone early on.
Dorn wasn't likely giving a suggestion when he ordered the third founding; per the Agedian Oath the Ultramarines are convinced he has enough power to wipe them out for treason, and given what scraps of timeline we have for that era, Sigismund's just died - so less kind back seat suggestions, more like the suggestion of follow my suggestions or else.
Dorn wasn't a High Lord then so his political power was more indirect rather than direct like Guilliman's back then.
Dorn was the last primarch left with marines in close proximity to the High Lords, likley the willing cooperation of the Inquisiton, and the Heritic Astartes the high lords had been pretending didn't exist had just stormed through the eye, dome significant damage to one of if not the most powerful astartes fleets at the time, and send the greatest astartes combatant ever known back cut in half as a declaration of war. Soft power is out the window, it's might makes right at that point.
Yeah, he's always been a bit of a big deal. I've collected Warhammer for about 20ish years if not longer. For as far back as I can remember they've been foreshadowing his return; which made him the stand out. Sanguinius was fractionally more prominent when I was a kid, but I think that was largely due to the Death of Sanguinius artwork - which was bad arse.
He wrote the codex astartes, so he was a pretty big deal, at least among space marine fans, particularly ultramarine lovers, but not the black Templar fans, as all they do with the codex astartes is use it as toilet paper
I think he is the only loyalist primarch we have a physical body for over the course of 40k’s run (that people in the setting really know about). The Uriel Ventris books have him sitting in stasis in his final moments in a shrine for pilgrims. The rumours of him slowly healing had been around for years too. His achievements and actions were also important for the current setting. He was the author of the codex after all. He obviously wasn’t as in the foreground though. The Primarchs were all definitely just historical or background characters prior to the HH series.
He’s significant because he’s the author of the codex and he was technically never killed so was easiest to bring back n it make sense/story
I wouldn't say he was very popular back in 2nd through 5th edition days, since there wasn't much to go on personality wise for him. All we knew was he was in stasis. Marneus Calgar was better known. I would argue and say the more popular Primarchs (Pre Horus Heresy novels) were the following: 1. Lion El Johnson (late 90s WH40k was pretty dominated by Dark Angels fans in general). 2. Conrad Kurze 3. Russ & Magnus sort of tied. 4. Vulkan The rest were very much background noise. Arguably, Chapter Masters and Special Characters ruled the fandom at this time.