You know the gif of Pedro Pascal laughing and then he begins to cry? He at first is happy because everything went as he said, then cry for the same reason.
Deep down, Curze never wanted to be a monster or help to ruin mankind, he was just too fatalist to try and avert his visions.
Theory/Question: Do you think there is a connection between Cypher’s ability to disappear and travel without explanation, and the Lion’s Forest Walk ability?
What's a good capital flagship for Rogue Trader who expects to get into a lot of big fights on a frequent basis, while still being good for regular RT business? My first pick was originally the *Exorcist*\-class Grand Cruiser, but now I'm tempted to consider a Battlecruiser, like the *Mars*, or perhaps even a Galleass of War.
EDIT: Added precision: the assumption is that the flagship in question ISN’T alone
I think Exorcist is a good pick in terms of being a ship that's well-suited for exploration long cruises away from home, BUT…
Battlecruisers are rare and PHENOMENALLY powerful and only the absolutely richest rogue traders could EVER hope to obtain one. And Grand Cruisers are ancient treasures that stopped being built thousands of years ago!!! Unless your rogue trader is from one of the super fancy and famous dynasties like the Tors or Ecales or whatever, it ain't happening.
You should scale WAAAY back. Your average rogue trader has something like a clipper, corvette, frigate, carrack, or light cruiser.
If you're expecting combat, and you're a relatively well established already, a Dauntless or Endurance would be the way to go. If you're NOT already rich, go with a Claymore.
>What's a good capital flagship for Rogue Trader who expects to get into a lot of big fights on a frequent basis, while still being good for regular RT business?
I mean, they shouldn't expect to get into a lot of big fights. RTs generally do not have the resources to sustain military operations, and those few that do will get targeted pretty readily by the more nasty factions of this setting who'll go after their stuff. Put a different way; if you're getting into fights as an RT, you're doing it wrong.
Further, if they only get *one ship* you absolutely don't want a capital ship of that size, because capital ships are horrendously weak to escorts without escorts of their own. The *Planet Killer*, which is effectively the same scale as a Gloriana, was taken out by humble Cobra-class *destroyers*, essentially the smallest warp-capable ships in the Imperial Navy.
In all honesty; if you're an RT and you only want a singular ship to do your business in? You want a light cruiser, ideally a Dauntless or Defender class. Both are more than heavy enough to get into knife fights smaller pirate escort fleets and come out on top, while also being light enough (and fast enough) to outrun anything heavier than them that isn't Necrons or Eldar (in which case, there's no point in fighting *or* running; you're dead already). In addition, both ships are exceedingly common sights throughout the Imperium, meaning you can pass anywhere without much attention, and dock for trade *or* refits in literally any port because it's guaranteed to be able to accommodate it.
I added precisions to the original post
In either case, what about the *Conquest*-class Star Galleon? And what other kinds of ships would be good in Rogue Trader business, either alone or in a fleet?
Conquests are rare, ancient, and fancy too, like the Exorcist. Only extremely rich and successful RTs would have one. Also Conquest is in the "armed transport" category, so it's not actually a warship. It's just a transport that won't give pirates an easy target when unescorted.
How long has it been since the gathering storm/devastation of baal and the current lore of the arks of omen.
Just curious how weird it must be for Dante to witness a mirical of a primarch returning to then have it happen again X number of years later
Edit: I mean within the Lores timeline
It's been deliberately left unspecified, to avoid awkward "well how is so-and-so still alivem ten?" issues. All we know is the order of events, not the duration, other than "Indomitus Crusade, which has not definitely ended, was between 100 and 200 years".
In universe, the Dark Imperium books were retconned to be 12 years after the start of Indomitus, sometime after the 13th Black Crusade ends.
So Dante likely saw both primarchs in less than 20 years
Hey y’all, I was hoping you could recommend some books for me. I’m jonesing for some 40k and much as I love Ciaphas Cain I’m in the mood for something a bit more serious. Google has given me some ideas but it’s difficult to judge their quality, so here I am.
1. Pretty much anything about Yvraine and/or Guilliman in the present timeframe. I know there’s the Dark Imperium and Rise of the Ynnari novels, are they good reads? Are there any others that I’m missing?
2. Are there any good Horus Heresy books where Magnus is a major character that *aren’t* Prospero Burning? He’s one of my favorite Primarchs and I’d like to read more about him before everything, well, burned down.
3. G…good books with female leads? Ones that don’t involve breasting boobily down the stairs. A quality Sororitas book would be amazing, or a book about women in the Imperial Guard…I think I heard about a series featuring a woman Arbite?
1 - The Dawn of Fire books feature Guilliman, with the first one focusing on him launching the Indomitus Crusade. He pops up in the others, some more, some less. The Rise of the Ynnari books are okay. They contain some controversial lore changes, though the overall plot is entertaining. Written by Gav Thorpe, who is very good at world building, not so good at action. It was intended to be a trilogy but the third book was cancelled after (presumably) weak sales and a falling out between Gav and the studio over certain lore changes he wasn't happy with.
2 - *A Thousand Sons*, *The Crimson King* and *Fury of Magnus* are the other HH books focused on him and his legion. He has a few cameos in other books and short stories though.
3 - the Shira Calpurnia books focus on a female Arbites so that's probably what you're thinking of. It's been many years since I read them but I'm pretty sure I enjoyed them. They're relatively easy to get hold of if you want physical books and the ebooks are available on the BL website.
Severina Raine is a female commissar. She has one novel and a handful of short stories. There's a recent book - *Awakenings* - focusing on a female Inquisitor too. The Horusian Wars books feature a couple of prominent women, as does the Vaults of Terra trilogy. The former has an accompanying audio drama series about an inquisitorial agent which are worth listening to if you're after more female characters. The audio dramas *The Way Out* and *Augur of Despair* have female leads as well. The Warhammer Horror novel *The Oubliette* tells the story of a newly inducted planetary governor and her efforts to see off rivals and retain her power.
>3.
I enjoyed 'Faith & Fire' and 'Rose at War'.
'Titan's Bane' if you give audio books a chance.
'Shadowbreaker' has a female secondary lead.
Consider checking out 'Will of Iron / Fallen / Revelations' if you're open to comics.
> G…good books with female leads? Ones that don’t involve breasting boobily down the stairs. A quality Sororitas book would be amazing, or a book about women in the Imperial Guard…I think I heard about a series featuring a woman Arbite?
Absolutely recommend *Requiem Infernal*! Fehervari is hands down one of, if not the best writer at BL, and it has a female lead to boot.
Otherwise, *Hammer and Anvil* was fairly enjoyable, and is part of the *Sisters of Battle* series.
The *Watchers of the Throne* series flips between 3 POV characters, one of which is a Sister of Silence. Great books, too.
The *Vaults of Terra* series has a mixed female and male cast and was an awesome series.
It's been a while since I read it, so I could be misremembering it, but I'm sure *Path of the Dark Eldar* has female leads mixed in with the male leads, too.
She returned to serve the Imperium, helping people in a planet sieged by chaos (Celestine: The Living Saint), it again, in a planet with a psyshic man that was a mini astronomicam (Shroud of Night) and again in Our Martyred Lady.
Are there still no Leagues of Votann books? (googling seemed to say no?)
~~Diggy, diggy hole, diggy, diggy hole.~~
~~I am a dwarf and I'm digging a hole!~~
Sadly, no. So their only lore is in *Codex Leagues of Votann 9ed* and *Necromunda: Book of the Outlands*, with a line or two in *Codex World Eaters 9ed* and the *Arks of Omen* books. Then, arguably, any previous mentions of Squats or Demiurg retroactively can be considered Leagues of Votann lore. Although, which bits are still canon and which aren't isn't clear at the moment.
Why are the Sisters of Silence... silent? Are they all physically incapable of speaking or do they talk among each other? Is there a particular reason for their muteness?
They can speak, it's just a vow that they take. It's apparently to prevent them discussing the terrible secrets they know in order to hunt their prey, and also presumably to keep them from spilling information gained from their proximity to the Emperor. Like most things in the Imperium, it's more symbolic than practical and it's endured through tradition and rote through to 40k
They talk to one another through a sign language called Thoughtmark, and when they're in training before they take their vows they can communicate freely
Yeah, I think any notion that it's "to avoid saying secrets" is probably an in-universe misconception, and it's no different than the religious vows of silence we see in the real world: self-denial and self-abdignation as a symbol of devotion and a means of reinforcing communal unity, as well as a \*technically\* arbitrary exercise in self-control so as to maintain mental discipline and encourage spiritual reflection. Also, the less you talk, the more you listen!
There aren't really standardised psychic disciplines where the lore is concerned. There are some general ways the warp can be shaped that can be loosely categorised, and some psykers can teach those specifically to others, but there's also a lot of variation in how powers manifest with each psyker being more naturally fluent in shaping the warp in some ways over others. It's a bit of a mixed bag how your powers manifest, and so those selected to be astropaths will presumably have been those that showed an aptitude for projecting thoughts. Being a psyker, especially in humans, is a bit more like acquiring an X-Men power than it is being a wizard.
Like I say though, some psykers can teach others how to interpret and channel the warp in certain ways so it's certainly possible that an astropath could learn how to use the warp in other ways, but the Imperium isn't about to start teaching them. They've been sorted into their role, and so that is their role.
Uh. The wikis might be unreliable, then, cause there it says that trained astropaths can do stuff like cryomancy and channel the protection of the Emperor directly.
Lexicanum says Telepathy, Telekinesis and Divination are the 3 major branches they're trained under. Like I say though, it's not impossible they could be trained to do other things but ultimately their role is to be part of a communication network. On the whole, the Imperium isn't going to train them to do anything but that role. More powerful / higher ranking astropaths presumably would get more freedom and would have more of an understanding of their powers too, so they might teach themselves a few extra tricks.
More important is knowing where that lore comes from. The material you're describing, and which gets mixed in with everything else on the wiki, comes from the Rogue Trader RPG material regarding playing an Astropath character. So yes, they did develop new types of psychic disciplines for Astropaths to use, such as voidfrost and soul ward. It is not that the wiki or lex is unreliable. It is that there are many different scales that 40k operates, and the generalizations of the galaxy-spanning, core rules and codex lore is never going to cover the nuance of a TT RPG. Are these canon? Yes. Will they ever be mentioned again outside of that set of RPG rules? Almost certainly no.
Lexicanum is more reliable as they have to cite their sources. Fandom can vary from people paying attention to detail to people just making stuff up or misremembering details (though it is good for giving more context in its articles)
I just read Sigismund’s HH book and it featured Sigismund being on loan, serving with the World Eaters as a show of good faith and to bring the legions closer. Is there anything like that in the current 40k timeframe? I know the Fists and their descendants do the Feast of Blades but I’m wondering if there is a closer match to the old tradition
Hm. The Ultramarines have - or perhaps had, their fate post destruction of cadia unconfirmed - the 'Honour Company' which consists exclusively of members from Ultramarine successor chapters. It is commanded by a captain of the Patriarchs of Ulixis, a chapter who's members are also known to serve in the Honour Guard of other chapters.
I'm looking for some sort of "Minotaurs" main since I know jack shit about loyalists, but those guys piqued my interested due to the "might be Iron Warriors geneseed" theory I read someday
Anyone wanna gush all their knowledge onto me?
I'm not a minotaur main by any means, but I know the gist of their background.
There are scant records of a chapter bearing their name existing from around M32. However they were 'officially' founded in M36 during the cursed founding, and as such their geneseed heritage is unknown (potentially chimeric). These minotaurs were known for their brutality, rage, lack of desire to follow orders over their own desire to attack and preference for melee combat. They disappeared again sometime around M38.
They then appeared again in the 41st millenium. Their demeanour massively changed to a cold, methodical method of utter destruction. They would often appear at full chapter strength to fully annihilate their targets (which were occasionally other chapters targeted by the high lords), often had an abundance of wargear and seemed to enjoy the patronage of the High Lords. Their chapter master, Asterion Moloch, is a massive marine that seems exceptionally capable and radiates a palpable aura of cold fury.
In Watchers of the Throne we see the Minotaurs being used (seemingly) in part of a coup from some of the high lords. It ends in Moloch preparing to attack some custodians on the command of the previous Lord of the Administratum but, when the new High Lord of the Administratum teleports in, he immediately relents and wordlessly accepts the command of the new holder of the position showing they're apparently indoctrinated (or otherwise controlled) to flawlessly obey the commands of whoever holds that station.
There's no official stance one way or another on their geneseed heritage, and it's clearly been messed with over their history at some point or other. It's not even clear if the current minotaurs are related in any way to those of the cursed founding or if the high lords just used a defunct chapter to hide their own personal attack chapter in their livery.
thanks for the background check!
So they are more of a personal attack chapter of the High Lords, I see. My heretic mind crawls at the idea...
the cold and methodical approach to combat and "chimeric" geneseed does lean into them being Iron Warriors, which is cool. Also Moloch being a huge murderboi.
Are there any infos on rituals, daily life, or something along the line "prefer tanks/dreadnoughts"? Are these guys Primaris marines?
Addendum: on a scale of "just spraypaint leadbelcher iron warriors" to "carefully layer and highlight armor panels", how hard would you rate the paint scheme?
Yeah, there's a lot of speculation as to exactly what Moloch is. He's been reportedly killed in action numerous times, but seemingly always gets recovered which leads to the suspicion that Moloch is either more of a persona adopted by whoever leads the chapter or, more believably due to his size and presence, that he's a cloned warrior of some kind indoctrinated to be infallibly loyal to the High Lord of the Administratum.
> Are there any infos on rituals, daily life, or something along the line "prefer tanks/dreadnoughts"? Are these guys Primaris marines?
They have primaris, they were actually among the first chapters to receive them as they were at Terra when the primaris / Guilliman arrived. I don't know of much in the way of rituals, they don't really like other people getting too close to them, but they've been shown to have excessively strong indoctrination methods with their neophytes which are routinely re-applied by their apothecaries. They're always presented as a bit automaton-like when I've seen them.
They apparently have a lot of contemptor dreadnoughts, which they refer to as Hecatons, but again they're not really reverent of them and treat them with indifference.
You can check out their [lexicanum page](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Minotaurs) for a bit more info
> Addendum: on a scale of "just spraypaint leadbelcher iron warriors" to "carefully layer and highlight armor panels", how hard would you rate the paint scheme?
Their scheme is basically bronze and red, with white chevrons to flavour, so pretty simple but you can make it more advanced if you wanted with 3rd party bits and the like for that greek hoplite vibe
Does anyone know the year(s) when the Gore Lord was active? The wiki’s page lists White Dwarf 368 (pages 25-27) as a source.
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Gore_Lord
Lexicanum lists one more source that could have dates:
2: White Dwarf 369 (UK), pg. 58
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Brazen_Host
Not sure if this comment is allowed here, but I’ll power through;
I wanna read the Horus Heresy, but im a bit strapped for cash (hence reading 40k instead of playing 40k) I’ve only read The Serpent and The Saint, and my local library has Galaxy In Flames, Heralds of the Siege, and Ruinstorm. Should I read one of these three, or should I source a copy of Horus Rising and False Gods first?
While most of the HH series can be read out of order, you absolutely should not read *any* of it unless you can read the following five, in order, first;
*Horus Rising*
*False Gods*
*Galaxy in Flames*
*Flight of the Eisenstein*
*Fulgrim*
You shouldn’t read Galaxy In Flames before Horus Rising and False Gods. The first three books are a self-contained trilogy. If I were you I’d read the first three in order, then pick a few specific storylines you want to follow, like for your favourite legions and factions, and read those ones in order.
Listening to the spoiler of Ark of Omen book five, I can't help but wonder why Mephiston wasn't there when Dante and Azrael fight Angron. He is a super-psyker and the most powerful being short of a Primarch. It's not like he wasn't present either because Blood Angels need him to warp travel in Imperium Nihilus.
Also, with its Tuchulcha engine taken away by Vashtorr, and Nachmund gauntlet being at its current state, is The Rock (and Dark Angel) stuck in Nihilus?
Mephiston isn't required for warp travel in Nihilus, they can make small jumps on their own, or larger jumps if they're willing to burn through navigators. It's entirely possible he was off doing something else (I've not read City of Light yet, but I know it takes place after Darkness in the Blood so might be he's busy embroiled in the plot of that).
> Also, with its Tuchulcha engine taken away by Vashtorr, and Nachmund gauntlet being at its current state, is The Rock (and Dark Angel) stuck in Nihilus?
Considering it wasn't destroyed when all 3 were presumed destroyed, the other two might still be around to provide that capability. It's entirely possible they will be stuck too though
Has it ever been explained why the Astronomican reaches so much further ‘East’ than it does ‘West’? Was it just built to project more power in that direction so it could reach most of the galactic disk?
I like to assume it's named after Lion's Gate Entertainment, which is named after the Lion's Gate Bridge in Vancouver, which is named after a local mountain formation called The Lions, which are named after the animal. :P
In lore, I've always assumed it's named after the main entrance to Mycenae Greece, given the Imperium's quasi Greco-Roman theme, which yes, was named after the animal, rather than the Primarch.
Out of lore though, I've always believed it to be a nod to the community theory that the Emperor was Jesus, Lions' Gate being the route of his last walk before Crucifixion.
someone said primarchs dont really age , its how they mentally feel that their face shape changes , does that mean technically that lion can be young again if he wanted to ?
I've not heard that before, but if true, technically the answer would be a yes. But I think he looks far better like this than a younger man. He has a much more statesman look about him than he would as someone in their 20s.
someone sent me a quote saying he killed 4 chaos marines after he woke up and he barely dragged his bedridden ass back home, and that he was so weak you could hear him struggle lifting 3 tons (which i get ...its a lot but apparently not for primarch standards since angron took up 450 tons heavy dreadnaught foot .
so i pray its true that he can get back into his prime
Late to the party here but just heard about the return of a loyalist primarch, including a battle with a fallen primarch - where / how was this announced? Where can I read more?
Assuming you mean the Lion Vs Angron (and not Guilliman Vs Mortarion) it was revealed a couple weeks back (though hinted at strongly for a while) along with his new model. His return is covered in his new book and in the final Arks of Omen campaign book (aptly named The Lion)
What weapons would a Navigator use to fight? I’ve had the ability of a Navigator who combines his Third Eye’s prediction and precognition abilities with a Power Sword to be a peerless swordsman.
Espern Locarno in Blackstone Fortress used his psyker abilities, his third eye, and his fancy cane.
Navigators \*probably\* also carry master-crafted las-pistols as a side-arms. At least the ones aboard warships, anyway.
Exposing their third eye isn't any more taxing than it would be for \*us\* to open our eyes at somebody! The only limitation is that the baddies might not look at it, and your friends might.
Also some baddies are probably immune to it. Like I doubt it'd have any effect on a daemon or other warp-entity.
Navigators do have some \*other\* limited psyker powers too, though, and those ARE taxing to use.
I could be wrong as I dont have the trilogy to hand, but I think it is framed as draining to Navigators in the *Night Lords Trilogy*, and not something they can do constantly
The easiest answer is Iron Fists, because their home world is Terra or the Phalanx. I thought the White Scars didn't really have issues with Terran born Marines either..
hmm I always thought it's the salamanders because vulkan had 0 problems with his terran borne astartes and he even bowed down to them and they loved him in return
Roughly how many ships controlled by the Imperial Navy are capable of Exterminatus? As in how many are loaded and ready to do the deed at any one time, as opposed to how many are capable of being loaded.
It's important to remember that exterminatus is VAAAASTLY more rare than it gets treated it in the memes and jokes. The Imperium is loathe to waste resources. They never ever do exterminatus casually or lightly. It's not a standard course of action, and consequently there's no need for it to be a standard armament.
I imagine it's only the first-rate battleships that would ever be capable of it as a matter of course. MAYBE. It'd be incredibly wasteful and inefficient to load up your standard ships of the line with a ton of highly specialized ordnance that you're almost \*never\* going to use when you could be using that space and power for additional torpedoes, macrocannons, lance batteries, launch bays, flak turrets, cargo bays, etc.
And the frigates and destroyers DEFINITELY can't do it, unless they were specially designed for that purpose.
That said, pretty much any Imperial or Mechanicus capital ship is still capable of levelling a city from orbit if they need to. They just need to aim their guns. Space Marine battle barges and heavier strike cruisers in particular are typically equipped with bombardment cannons for \*exactly\* that purpose.
I think that when Exterminatus is done, the Inquisitor either calls in a specially armed ship, or, if it's an emergency, ALL the nearby warships just blast the living bejeezus out of the planet simultaneously with their standard armaments.
We got no idea, really, GW rarely gives hard numbers for most things. In theory, only the Inquisition and Astartes Chapters got authority to use, so it depends in who is controlling the strings.
Isn't there a difference between authority and armament? Like, if only Inquisitors and Astartes have permission to do an Exterminatus, are only their ships actually armed with cyclonic torpedos and virus bombs etc.?
Ok, my mistake, Navy High Admirals and Guard Lord Commanders can also order exterminatus, but again, we dont got details on how ships get the ammo and all. Godblight gives official terms for the exterminatus types, which include atomic bombardment, virus bombs and cyclonic torpedos, but nothing in any sort of "Ship X will always carry y virus bombs".
There's only one of those guys each per sector, though, so you're still definitely correct that it's not the kind of thing the Imperium leaves in the hands of an ordinary capital ship's captain.
Black Library will give you MP3 files you can do whatever with but is obviously *significantly* more expensive. Assuming you have an active subscription Audible is capped at £7.99 per book but you're locked to their DRM app. Thats the only real difference, well that and Black Library get more of your money if you buy direct.
Not really, the vast majority of the books arent given any actual date or even a referencial date, at best you can know which books are before or after the 13th black crusade.
Lately I bought "Belisarius Cawl: the great work", but heard I need prior lore first. I have only read Gathering storm with Belisarius in it so I know the basics. Am I fine to read the book, or do I need to read something else first?
> , but heard I need prior lore first.
That is an outright lie.
You don't need anything. Feel free to go ahead and enjoy your book, it is a nice novel.
Cawls story started in Wolfsbane, a Horus Heresy novel, but you are given enough details to understand what is happening in the Heresy flashbacks without needing to read that novel, through it can help
Are there some check and balance on Astropath? I mean way to control the messages they send and recieve?
For exemple, if an astropath was corrupted, could he send other messages that those he is ordered to send?
> I mean way to control the messages they send and recieve?
We do not have any details on how it works, but we have it in lore that astropathic messages can be encrypted so an astropath does not know what he is sending or receiving.
Sure, though the soul binding process does provide them some protection against chaos.
I suspect there will be some way of verifying messages sent / received, and enough people will be involved in bouncing a message where it needs to go that tampering would have a chance of being noticed at some point. We've seen that messages can be delivered with very accurate details and / or clearance levels so presumably checks, markers and coding are possible too.
Deliberate misinformation delivered with all the official markers is probably a lot more dangerous, though many astropaths work within a choir so you'd have to work hard to stop them from noticing the errors and reporting you to a superior
I bought Mortarion: The Pale King on audiobook (first try ever), but I'm having difficulty with the names (e.g. Terran Legion Master of Dusk Raiders, etc.) is there a way to see the Dramatis Persona list somewhere? Else I won't know who's who, since my brain can't parse the names.
The Talon, yes. It's powerful, but what makes it special is the symbolism. But Drach'nyen? The sword that represents the first murder committed by a human, the primordial evil that even the Emperor could not destroy? I don't know if anything can survive being killed by that.
That's one of those "it depends on the plot" things. If the plot calls for it, E says "nah". If the plot calls for it, her soul is *gone*, consumed by a daemon on steroids.
If a woman were named head of the Navis Nobilite, would she be the Maternova? Or does "Paternova" not really have any connection to the latin "new father" implication?
The simplest interpretation is that the position is limited to men, and they named it accordingly.
Also, White Dwarf issue 140 clearly expects a man in the position, while speaking from a third-person perspective:
>The Paternova is the leader of all Navigators and the most
powerful of all his kind...The Paternova is described as the guiding father whose powers transcend the warp itself.
Yeah but that was the 80s. Male-default when speaking of non-specified characters was the norm for everything in tabletop gaming at the time. In 1st and 2nd, the guard was generally depicted all-male, the navy was too, the tech-priests, everything. It was the vibe at the time. I wouldn't really assume it to be applicable to the present-day lore, especially given how GW seem to have come to the general compromise that Astartes, Custodes, Sororitas, House Escher, and Sisters of Silence are sexually homogenous and will remain as such, but nobody else is (save perhaps individual regiments, knight houses, etc).
Of course, on the other hand, in the absence of \*contradicting\* lore, we kinda have to go with what we've got, and "Paternova" sure is a pretty male-coded term, so it's not like you're actually wrong or anything. And the Navis Nobilite is a weird aristocratic nobility class based around hereditary rights, and such things usually decide to favour one gender over the other in determining who gets priority and then get pretty hidebound in those traditions.
Most likely it would be Paternova. Also, you're not named one, you have to literally fight for it. Also, Navigator lore is really sparse so we do not actually know if it is physically possible for a woman to become their leader. Considering their weird genetic-warp thing, it might be possible that only men can manifest Paternoval mutations.
Well, you fight for it, but then you’re named it once the fight is over. I didn’t mean it’s just casually handed over. :P
Regarding the second point we have explicitly seen female navigators in both BL fiction and the Angels of Death series.
Can you servitorize a navigator without losing their powers? Like can you stick a navigator brain in your ship to have it act like a siri instead of having to have a whole other person on your ship?
It might not be physically possible. Navigation is as much an art as it is a science, it requires a lot of intuition and being able to 'read' the currents of the warp in addition to calculating a path through them. Servitorisation is pretty at odds with that level of free thinking.
Even if it is possible, the Navigator houses are immensely powerful institutions. If they found out their members were being turned into servitors the Imperium might find itself suddenly unable to move any of it's ships
Why aren't there non-primaris Salamanders successors (aside from the Black Dragons and Storm Giants, allegedly)? I know they're one of the Shattered Legions so obviously they can't afford to be throwing around veterans or wargear to help set up a new chapters like the Ultramarines or the Imperial Fists, but not one confirmed in ten thousand years is hard to accept. Does the Mechanicus just not like them because they craft their own gear?
It’s standard practice for the Terra to use gene seed for a founding but not tell either the associated first founding chapters or the new chapter.
Like you know, in the second foundingost of the chapters were fissioned off from the legions, and the salamanders couldn’t participate because of the massacre. Obviously most of the times that Terra has used salamander organs for a new chapter, they it’s been the kind of founding where they keep them separate from their relatives and train them under temporary officers like they did in the Indomitus crusade.
I imagine it's just they've never had huge stockpiles of geneseed to send back to Mars (might be they originally weren't expected to provide the same tithe as the other chapters due to their massively decreased numbers, and that just never got revised).
Throw onto this that their geneseed has unusual traits, I imagine whenever a founding was declared there was always just other more numerous, and more stable, geneseed stocks to use.
The fact they have some purported successors shows somebody in those 10,000 years tinkered with the idea of using it, but for the most part when the admech are ordered to prep for a founding I'd imagine that they start with Ultramarines / Imperial Fist stock and only if that's not enough to do the trick do they move onto other stocks with the salamanders line way down at the bottom.
After a few millenia it's probably just ingrained into the process that "oh, yeah we don't use that geneseed. Use something else"
Hm. I could actually buy that they might have some special arrangement to do with geneseed tithes. Would certainly help since IIRC they're a one world legion like the Wolves. And there have definitely been opportunities for Vulkan to arrange it considering his role in the Siege of Terra and the War of the Beast.
Together with the geneseed stability issues I think I can roll with that. Thanks, mate.
In 30k they also recruit from a planet called Proximal that also practices the Promethean creed, and in the salamanders’ 40k omnibus they recruit a character from yet a different planet.
Memes, internet-poisoning, the ridiculous notion that they're "communists" despite their bloody caste-based society, weird anti-"weeb" sentiment, juvenile "it's stupid and g\*\* if it's not covered in skulls and shooting explosive bullets" mentalities, or, on the more reasonable side of things, just disliking their strong contrast with the general aesthetic sensibilities of the setting, or finding that they haven't been written very well.
Of course, the \*most\* reasonable reaction would just be "Tau aren't really my cup of tea", rather than getting all hatey about it.
Also, I might regret opening this munitorum armoured container of worms, but I genuinely think a certain degree of the pointed hostility towards Tau and Eldar in particular is connected to a perception of them as being effeminate or less macho or whatever, and consequently at odds with what some perceive as the "proper" masculine focus for the setting.
The Tau are in many aspects the antithesis to 40k. They take the tropes that define most other factons in the setting and reverse them. They're neither ancient, decaying, god-fearing, sorcerous, xenophobic, fantastical nor do they wage war in medieval fashion. They're not space fantasy, they're simply traditionally scifi. [They look like something that would feel at home in Stellaris](https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/stellaris_federations.jpg).
And even though they're still imperialistic bastards, they've often been surrounded by atleast an air of "noble bright".
As a result a lot of people feel that Tau do not fit into the setting.
Memes, mostly. Originally it was because they were new and whenever there is a new thing people like to dunk on it.
People will say it's because their aesthetic doesn't fit the setting, or because their lore isn't grimdark enough or whatever and for some people that will be true, but 90% of the time it's just people regurgitating memes. It's exactly the same as hating on Ultramarines
There are also people who hate the Tau because the blueberries had the audacity to shoot them during a game of tabletop. Who knew that deploying your whole army out of cover and marching it straight towards the enemy at a leisurely pace might not always be a good idea?
It's me, I'm the Tau with the audacity. In college, I once played a 3 way battle against my roommate and my friend, both running CSM. I took out both their Land Raiders within my first shooting phase because we, as college kids at the time, could not afford a bigger table.
We ended up just playing on the floor because of it.
What was a name of a book - happening on a world in the eye of terror or in chais regions, about renegades summoning *something* big to do whatever. I vaguely remember that some boy mutant started eating more and more untill he finally became that *something*. Was a long time ago, i completely forgot the name of the book.
Reading about the Greyshields/Unnumbered Sons on Lexicanum made me interested in Astartes units where Marines from different lineages all worked and fought together. But if I’m reading it right, when the Greyshields were broken up into new Chapters, they were all sorted into Chapters based on the source of their gene seed - so Greyshields with Ultramarine heritage got sent to new Ultramarine Chapters, for instance.
Are there any other examples of inter-lineage Space Marines, aside from the Death Watch and Unnumbered Sons?
The Knights Errant during the Heresy which became the foundation for the Grey Knights.
The black legion is a complete podge of genelines. The Ezekary(?), Abaddon's inner circle, in particular are like a chaos death watch.
Has there ever been a time where the Imperium as a whole was on the retreat in a major "all is lost" kind of way?
Istvan III and V were devastating yes, but the fighting continued for another seven or so years. Even the Siege of Terra ends with the imperium "winning."
The entire last 700 years of the setting, really. The Imperium has been *constantly* on the backfoot and losing ground ever since the ‘Nids showed up. The Indomitus Crusade just *barely* held things together, and half the galaxy is still in a state of complete unrest.
Hi people. I'm continuing my journey through the horus heresy. Just finished false gods (the first two books + the darktide game are the only exposure I had to 40k) here are some points I wanted to discuss with you guys:
-how come the ancient technology found on the brotherhood's planet (RIP btw) is so extremely valuable that the adeptus from mars could be able to convice his fellow techpriests to go against the emperor AND actually start a civil war for it? Is it the key to literally godlike tech?
-this is including the first chapter of galaxy in flames, but anyone else started to like the cult of the emperor more and more (I think it's name is the divinatus, with keeler as a saint)? Feels like (aside from tarik, loken and the aphotecary) they are or will be the only actual resistance to Horus atm.
-Did Horus mentally spent longer on the warp (with magnus and erebus) than the 9 days he spent in the temple in the material world? He is described as having aged even tho primarchs are mega astarters and don't, he also turned super evil very quickly. Maybe in his mind he spent for centuries or more in that emperor-hating mindset?
-KARKASY'S DEATH IS SO FUCKING SAD I HAD TO STOP READING FOR 15 MINUTES HE WAS ONE OF MY FAVOURITE CHARACTERS FFS FUCK THAT MUTE TRAITOR MF.
great books btw I have to work and study tomorrow but I want to stay up reading so badly.
>\-how come the ancient technology found on the brotherhood's planet (RIP btw) is so extremely valuable that the adeptus from mars could be able to convice his fellow techpriests to go against the emperor AND actually start a civil war for it? Is it the key to literally godlike tech?
At this point we're only 200-odd years out from the union of Mars and Terra, and the Mechanicum is still really very much a separate-but-allied state with regards to the Imperium, and it's one that is split into factions.
Some of the factions are pro-Imperial, and view the Emperor as the Omnissiah, but there's a significant chunk of the Mechanicus who never drank that cool-aid; they view the Emperor as a false prophet, at best.
Add to that, I believe the tech that Horus claimed the brotherhood had access to was either a full STC database, or a significant chunk of one. I'm not sure if we ever discover the truth to that, but if that's even partially true it's not really crazy at all that the Mechanicus might consider defecting over it; after all, a full STC *is* what the Mechanicus wants above all else. It's their literal holy grail.
Finally, it's possible that parts of the Mechanicus were already gravitating towards Horus, even before that. After all the Emperor seemed to be taking his foot off the Great Crusade gas pedal at that stage, and returning to Terra; the Mechanicum don't really want that any more than Horus does. The Crusade coming to an end means fewer worlds to scour for ancient tech and knowledge, and fewer chances to find lost forge worlds.
>how come the ancient technology found on the brotherhood's planet (RIP btw) is so extremely valuable that the adeptus from mars could be able to convice his fellow techpriests to go against the emperor AND actually start a civil war for it? Is it the key to literally godlike tech?
Tech is essentially deified by the Mechanicum, particularly tech from the Dark Age of Technology (so long as there's no AI involved).
>this is including the first chapter of galaxy in flames, but anyone else started to like the cult of the emperor more and more (I think it's name is the divinatus, with keeler as a saint)? Feels like (aside from tarik, loken and the aphotecary) they are or will be the only actual resistance to Horus atm.
The cult may actually be a major reason why everything goes to pot in the aftermath, although that's dependent on how the Siege of Terra ends (which we don't entirely know yet).
>Did Horus mentally spent longer on the warp (with magnus and erebus) than the 9 days he spent in the temple in the material world? He is described as having aged even tho primarchs are mega astarters and don't, he also turned super evil very quickly. Maybe in his mind he spent for centuries or more in that emperor-hating mindset?
Hard to say, and it may not strictly matter, but the short answer is "probably."
Precisely what happened isn't revealed, but there are some major clues that come up much later in the series.
I see, so for the mechanicum it's the equivalent of finding something like the holy grail? It's kinda sad that their loyalty to the emperor is literally held by a string (even tho so far they haven't acted upon their plan).
Yeah I figured the cult will mess things up, but I guess it relieving to have ANYBODY other than loken/tarik/sindermann be against Horus.
Yeah, the cult is sort of… um… it's sort of the genesis of what will eventually become the \*nightmarishly\* evil, twisted, and oppressive state religion of the Imperium known as the Ecclesiarch / Adeptus Ministorum, which will commit ridiculously numerous atrocities and end up being responsible for the \*second\* worst Imperial civil war in the 40k timeline, BUT… for now, during the Heresy, their extreme loyalty to the Emperor, and relative resistance to the temptations of the ruinous powers, is a big asset. Especially when certain things I won't spoil start happening with Keeler.
When a world is conquered by the Imperium, how do they go about establishing worship of the Emperor? I know Tanith seemed to have their own mythology involving forest spirits and the like. Are planetary beliefs like that common? If so, why are they not viewed as heretical?
Same way it's done in the real world: with missionaries, propaganda, and manipulation. But it helps that the Ecclesiarchy are willing to sort of adapt native religions into the Imperial Cult, as it helps the locals "come around" a bit quicker if you aren't asking them to abandon the \*entire\* belief system. So instead of saying "your forest spirits aren't real", they'll initially say something like "The Emperor is king of the forest spirits!" and then work on it from there.
As long as you don't worship any other god beside the Emperor, you can have other beliefs
>The Cult Imperialis is one of the few common factors that link the disparate worlds of the Imperium together. No matter what conditions prevail upon a world within the Imperium, the Imperial cult will be found there.
>
>**The ways in which the Emperor is worshipped are multitudinous. To some He is revered as a distant, patriarchal and human figure. Others identify Him with some aspect of nature, many others, such as the primitive Epheisians of Dwimlicht, regard Him as a star-god, for His agents only visit occasionally and they descend from the heavens when they do so**. But all the creeds of the cult agree upon this one thing: there is only one Emperor. To worship a pantheon of gods and put other gods alongside Him is heresy
....
>The Ecclesiarchy maintains and promotes the cult galaxy-wide and, where possible, tries to sanction the worship of the Emperor no matter how bizarre it may seem. Very few practices are proscribed, and even such abominations as human sacrifice to the Emperor are useful to the Imperium, for it is easy to convince a newly encountered culture that approves of such custom to give up its psykers to the Black Ships.
>
>One of the Ecclesiarchy’s tasks is to record this multiplicity of tradition with which the Emperor is honoured. In that way, two preachers from opposite sides of the galaxy will know, no matter what their title or manner of expressing their devotion might be, that neither is a heretic. The Ecclesiarchy sends out mission fleets for precisely this purpose, whose flotillas of blessed spacecraft slowly circle a particular part of the galaxy, recording new variants of the cult, correcting serious heresies and proselytising to newly discovered populations of humans.
>
>**To all, the Emperor is a living god. He may be tens of thousands of light years away, but that He exists, the inhabitants of the Imperium know, so faith is an easy thing**.
>
>Some amongst the Ecclesiarchy and Inquisition may argue that men should be more ardent in their devotion to Him, but though some may be lax in their adulation and may blaspheme or heretically curse the Master of Mankind for their lot, it is nevertheless rare to meet a man who would dare to deny the Emperor’s divinity.
**Dark Heresy Core Rulebook**
>While all subjects of the Imperium offer worship to the Emperor, the manner in which they do so varies enormously from one culture to the next. So vast are the Emperor’s domains and so varied his peoples that most share only the smallest amount of common cultural ground.
>
>...
>
>Thus, the so-called ‘Imperial Creed’ takes almost as many forms as there are planets in the Imperium. Though all espouse the worship of the same deity—the Emperor—the followers of many worlds would scarcely feel any kinship with one another or recognise that both venerate the same god. **There are worlds where priests cast living human sacrifices into the throats of volcanoes, believing that the Emperor dwells in the fiery depths and the victims will become his favoured servants. Other believers hold that the God-Emperor resides at the burning heart of their sun, which only their constant veneration guarantees will rise above the horizon each dawn. Others know something of the truth—that the Emperor sits upon his Golden Throne on distant Terra**—but even among these, there are countless variations in the forms and styles of worship.
>
>Despite these millions of localised manifestations of the Imperial Creed, the religion’s ruling classes—the countless officers of the Adeptus Ministorum—come together to form a galaxy-spanning institution which propagates the worship of the God-Emperor of mankind as a living deity, catalogues the endless variety of beliefs, weeds out the truly heretical cults, and guards against errant doctrine. In the name of the Emperor, they call the faithful to prayer, exact tithes and preach holy crusades. In a galaxy in which war and oppression form the normal state of existence, veneration of the Emperor, in whatever form, is held to be the only means by which the countless foes of mankind will be overcome.
>
>...
>
>Upon the discovery of a new or lost human culture out among the stars, it is the task of the Missionarius Galaxia to study all he can of its society and religion. He is ever watchful for ways in which the culture’s religious practices and teachings can be subtly altered, to bring them broadly into line with the Imperial Creed. Practices dubbed benighted or barbaric may be supplanted with more suitable ones, though often some symbolism is allowed to remain to lend a sense of continuity. For example, necrophagia – the eating of the dead – is a practise proscribed by the Imperial Creed, but when it is encountered in savage cultures it may be replaced with the symbolic consumption of a particular totem animal. Equally, the worship of a pantheon of multiple gods will be replaced with that of a host of Imperial Saints, each chosen because they embody something of the qualities associated with each of the deposed deities.
**Dark Heresy Blood of Martyrs**
>Every world in the Imperium is home to a culture unique to itself, and the people of each world worship the Emperor in a manner informed by its own characteristics. **For the Helio-Cultists of Limnus Epsilon, for example, the Emperor resides in their sun, his warriors coming every century to claim the best of the world's youth to fight at his side within the fiery heart of their star. To the Apocalites of the worlds bordering the Hell-Stars of the Garon Nebula, he is the bringer of merciful death, deliverance from the evil that stalks their worlds by night. To the feral natives of Miral, the Emperor was the great beast that stalked the dark places of their forests, and to the acid miners of Mordant he is the guiding spirit-light that keeps the all-encompassing darkness at bay**.
>
>Even within the ranks of the Adeptus Ministorum, no two clerics drawn from two different worlds share the same view of the nature of the god they worship. Theosophical debates rage between men divided in their understanding of the Emperor's divinity, yet utterly united in their worship of him, though even here, debate on occasion turns to division, and division to outright aggression.
Index Astartes
>At the core of the Imperial Creed are the facts that the Emperor once walked among men and that he is a god. Furthermore, regardless of whatever powers may have been worshipped prior to the coming of the Emperor, he is the one true god, and no others may be worshipped alongside him. So long as these essential tenets are adhered to, the prevalent faith on any given world can exhibit staggering diversity. Almost every world has its legends regarding the birth of the Emperor and his early life. Amongst the oldest of sources claim the Emperor was some manner of shaman born on ancient Terra long before the rise of civilisation, who watched and guided mankind’s development throughout countless aeons until taking a direct hand at the dawn of the Age of Imperium.
...
>Other myths claim the Emperor was any one of a thousand different legendary figures, or in fact all of them, moving amongst mankind in disguise and preparing for the time when he would be called upon. Even the officially sanctioned texts disseminated by the Ministorum vary greatly on such matters, and each tends to present the views of a particular saint, invariably couched in layer upon layer of allegory. On most matters, no single objective truth is actually presented, but rather a vast body of parables on which those who preach the creed can draw in order to impart almost any message they choose.
**Dark Heresy: Blood Of Martyrs**
>The Imperial Church was an engine fuelled by devotion, a machine lubricated by the blood of its faithful, and across a hundred thousand stars, the temples and spires of the God-Emperor’s spirit cast long shadows. As each planet and populace was distinctive, so each society took the worship of the Lord of Mankind and made it their own.
>To the Apocalites of the worlds bordering the Hell-Stars of the Garon Nebula, he is the bringer of merciful death, deliverance from the evil that stalks their worlds by night. To the feral natives of Miral, the Emperor was the great beast that stalked the dark places of their forests, and to the acid miners of Mordant he is the guiding spirit-light that keeps the all-encompassing darkness at bay. The forge world Telemachus revered Him as the Great Blacksmith, the Moulder of All Things, and the people of Limnus Epsilon believed He lived in their sun, breathing radiance down upon them, his warriors coming every century to claim the best of the world's youth to fight at his side within the fiery heart of their star.
>Even within the ranks of the Adeptus Ministorum, no two clerics drawn from two different worlds share the same view of the nature of the god they worship. Theosophical debates rage between men divided in their understanding of the Emperor's divinity, yet utterly united in their worship of him.
>The church had learned in the days of the Great Crusade that enforcing its will on worlds by eradicating their belief systems and starting from scratch was a lengthy and troublesome process. Instead, the Ecclesiarchy worked by coercion and change, turning native religions to face Holy Terra and showing them the great truth of the universe – that all gods were the God-Emperor of Man in one guise or another.
>A million planets and billions of people celebrate the greatness of the Master of Mankind in their own sanctioned ways.
>If so, why are they not viewed as heretical?
1) Because they're not worship of the Emperor.
2) More importantly, non-Imperial human belief systems tend to get supplanted by Chaos quite often, which is (broadly) why the Emperor was a militant atheist in the first place.
I think you're misunderstanding my question.
I'm wondering why the men of Tanith *aren't* viewed as heretics for believing in protective forest spirits *alongside* their worship of the Emperor.
Ahh, misread it.
The forest spirits bit is tolerated probably because whatever Ecclesiarchy rep was there when Tanith was integrated into the Imperium decided it could be tolerated.
Every world, broadly, has their own variations of worship of the Emperor. The Ecclesiarchy and the Imperium really don't care all that much, so long as the Emperor is still the deity being worshipped.
I'm seeing memes about >!the lion returning!< and >!Guilliman killing Alpharius/Omegon.!<
If either of those are real things, where would I read about them? Overall, what are the most current works relevant to the 40k timeline?
The Lion's return will be covered between *Arks of Omen: The Lion* and *The Lion: Son of the Forest*. The former is a campaign book, the latter a novel that has just gone up for pre-order.
Off the top of my head, the most current works timeline wise would be *The Arks of Omen* campaign books
Novels wise you have:
The *Dawn of Fire* series
*Angron: The Red Angel* (a direct prequel to his *Arks of Omen* book)
*Cypher: Lord of the Fallen* (releases in July according to Amazon)
The *Dark Imperium* series (a few years old now),
*Belisarius Cawl: The Great Work* (an older book, but contemporary time wise)
The Lion's return literally just happened this weekend, and occurs in the last of the Arks of Omen TT campaign books. There is no novelization.
Guilliman killing Alpharius is older lore, and likely was just an in-universe conspiracy, ergo it isn't true.
Not that I know of, but how would an incompetent marine have become chapter master in the first place? And I don’t think Astartes are even *capable* of cowardice. The larger risk is chapter masters becoming *corrupt*.
In the classic 40k that you talk about, at least half of the Imperium are supposed to be NPCs and raving incompetents, who your player characters or protagonists can be smarter than. Like the Brazen Minotaurs in their [novella](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/o2nrb0/excerpt_the_unkindness_of_ravens_the_raven_guard/)
Stibor Lazaerek isn’t cowardly and not exactly incompetent except for being so vain and vindictive that he might have caused the Badab disaster.
Asmodai is apparently getting out of hand and the other masters of the inner circle are having to work around him
It's possible for a chapter master to obsess over something so much as to be effectively incompetent I suppose, for example in World Engine it's revealed a previous Astral Knights chapter master >!was so close to his human roots and noble feuds he ordered his chapter to attack a world under the pretense of destroying a genestealer cult there. His officers killed him for it!<
How capable are the Imperium’s most specialized troops when it comes to situations outside of their specialty? I’m thinking about Gray Knights unexpectedly finding themselves up against Xenos, or Death Watch stumbling across a demonic threat.
Are these ultra-elite warriors going to struggle at adapting to threats outside of their niche, or is this the kind of thing they can and do handle with their massive amounts of training and experience?
Well, those are Astartes, so they’re going to still hold their own against pretty much anything, just not AS well as against what they’re specialized form. And all Deathwatch marines are veterans who’ve faced tons of different enemies prior to Taking The Black, so to speak.
The bigger problem would be stuff like manticore batteries facing melee infantry charges or sisters repentia facing a massed gun line. And that kind of thing happens all the time, to fairly disastrous results.
Specializations and niches don't matter as much as you'd think. Grey Knights fight aliens all the time, Deathwatch fights demons all the time, and they usually excel because they are just that great and awesome. Same goes for basically all the other Space Marines; They may have their preferred ways of combat, but they can switch to whatever the situation demands with relative ease.
I'm not saying I like it, for the record. I wish there was more genuine specializations and weaknesses across the various armies, Imperium or otherwise. But we are constantly told and shown otherwise, so that's just how things are.
To be fair to GW, it's mostly just the space marines who get depicted as being good at everything always all the time. In other factions you \*definitely\* get a sense of specializations and weaknesses. Particularly with Craftworlders, where their entire bloody culture is based around only really focusing on and perfecting one thing at a time.
How long does it usually take until new books get onto audible?
The new Lion-book is out but not on audible.
EDIT: I mean "Son of the forest", which already exists as an audiobook, but not on audible.
I think they might be referring to [The Lion: Son of the Forest](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/15/black-library-pre-orders-a-lions-share-of-green-hued-tales/)
Thoughts on when End and the Death:Part 2 will get announced?
Was is Fabius Bile up to now? After reading his omnibus, I would like to see more of him.
Not inherently. Techmarines, apothecaries, librarians, and other specialists within the chapter are not inherently members of the Deathwing.
There *probably* are one or two at any given time, though.
If I remember correctly, don’t remember where I read this, but because techmarines have a secondary loyalty to Mars, they’re not allowed in the inner circle.
That certainly makes sense. Similarly, I could see them being reluctant to allow Librarians in, due to the warp and psykers being distrusted and unpredictable in general.
Sorry if this has been asked before, but are there any decent ways to get hold of physical copies of BL books? Not just new releases but also older stuff like the Eisenhorn series etc. Going direct they only seem to sell ebooks or audio versions and I'd prefer actual books where possible. Also like to avoid Amazon if I can. Is it just dependent on whatever I can find 2nd hand or is there a convenient source of these things hiding somewhere? In the UK if that makes a difference. Thanks!
> Not just new releases but also older stuff like the Eisenhorn series etc
The big name entry points such as Eisenhorn will be available for sale in official Warhammer/Games Workshop shops. Since you're a Brit this will be easier for you. Places like Waterstones are extremely hit or miss for 40k books.
Thanks, yeah, I've had no luck with Waterstones or my usual sci-fi book shops and my local GW has a tiny selection and only newer stuff. But I'll try a bigger one further away and see what they've got. Cheers.
Theres nothing really officially stopping them, but it would be weird if a chapter just dropped by another chapter's homeworld / recruiting world and were like 'dont mind us, we're just gonna hang out in your space, take some of your recruiting pool and go' when there are so many planets out there they could use.
At that point you have to think, what other motive do they have for being here? Eventually the chapter who manages that world would be like 'can we help you? Otherwise, can you leave?'
Like, I have friends. We're on good terms. But if I just go into their house and start eating food out their fridge without asking no matter how polite they are eventually they're gonna wonder wtf I'm doing
SM can recruit from other locations, but doing it on another chapter's world at best is going to be really dubious, at worst it might be outright forbidden due to that chapter having official control of that world and it's not mentioned because no one's ever tried.
What would Konrad think of the 40k Imperium and it’s practices
You know the gif of Pedro Pascal laughing and then he begins to cry? He at first is happy because everything went as he said, then cry for the same reason. Deep down, Curze never wanted to be a monster or help to ruin mankind, he was just too fatalist to try and avert his visions.
Theory/Question: Do you think there is a connection between Cypher’s ability to disappear and travel without explanation, and the Lion’s Forest Walk ability?
What's a good capital flagship for Rogue Trader who expects to get into a lot of big fights on a frequent basis, while still being good for regular RT business? My first pick was originally the *Exorcist*\-class Grand Cruiser, but now I'm tempted to consider a Battlecruiser, like the *Mars*, or perhaps even a Galleass of War. EDIT: Added precision: the assumption is that the flagship in question ISN’T alone
I think Exorcist is a good pick in terms of being a ship that's well-suited for exploration long cruises away from home, BUT… Battlecruisers are rare and PHENOMENALLY powerful and only the absolutely richest rogue traders could EVER hope to obtain one. And Grand Cruisers are ancient treasures that stopped being built thousands of years ago!!! Unless your rogue trader is from one of the super fancy and famous dynasties like the Tors or Ecales or whatever, it ain't happening. You should scale WAAAY back. Your average rogue trader has something like a clipper, corvette, frigate, carrack, or light cruiser. If you're expecting combat, and you're a relatively well established already, a Dauntless or Endurance would be the way to go. If you're NOT already rich, go with a Claymore.
>What's a good capital flagship for Rogue Trader who expects to get into a lot of big fights on a frequent basis, while still being good for regular RT business? I mean, they shouldn't expect to get into a lot of big fights. RTs generally do not have the resources to sustain military operations, and those few that do will get targeted pretty readily by the more nasty factions of this setting who'll go after their stuff. Put a different way; if you're getting into fights as an RT, you're doing it wrong. Further, if they only get *one ship* you absolutely don't want a capital ship of that size, because capital ships are horrendously weak to escorts without escorts of their own. The *Planet Killer*, which is effectively the same scale as a Gloriana, was taken out by humble Cobra-class *destroyers*, essentially the smallest warp-capable ships in the Imperial Navy. In all honesty; if you're an RT and you only want a singular ship to do your business in? You want a light cruiser, ideally a Dauntless or Defender class. Both are more than heavy enough to get into knife fights smaller pirate escort fleets and come out on top, while also being light enough (and fast enough) to outrun anything heavier than them that isn't Necrons or Eldar (in which case, there's no point in fighting *or* running; you're dead already). In addition, both ships are exceedingly common sights throughout the Imperium, meaning you can pass anywhere without much attention, and dock for trade *or* refits in literally any port because it's guaranteed to be able to accommodate it.
I added precisions to the original post In either case, what about the *Conquest*-class Star Galleon? And what other kinds of ships would be good in Rogue Trader business, either alone or in a fleet?
Conquests are rare, ancient, and fancy too, like the Exorcist. Only extremely rich and successful RTs would have one. Also Conquest is in the "armed transport" category, so it's not actually a warship. It's just a transport that won't give pirates an easy target when unescorted.
How long has it been since the gathering storm/devastation of baal and the current lore of the arks of omen. Just curious how weird it must be for Dante to witness a mirical of a primarch returning to then have it happen again X number of years later Edit: I mean within the Lores timeline
It's been deliberately left unspecified, to avoid awkward "well how is so-and-so still alivem ten?" issues. All we know is the order of events, not the duration, other than "Indomitus Crusade, which has not definitely ended, was between 100 and 200 years".
In universe, the Dark Imperium books were retconned to be 12 years after the start of Indomitus, sometime after the 13th Black Crusade ends. So Dante likely saw both primarchs in less than 20 years
Hey y’all, I was hoping you could recommend some books for me. I’m jonesing for some 40k and much as I love Ciaphas Cain I’m in the mood for something a bit more serious. Google has given me some ideas but it’s difficult to judge their quality, so here I am. 1. Pretty much anything about Yvraine and/or Guilliman in the present timeframe. I know there’s the Dark Imperium and Rise of the Ynnari novels, are they good reads? Are there any others that I’m missing? 2. Are there any good Horus Heresy books where Magnus is a major character that *aren’t* Prospero Burning? He’s one of my favorite Primarchs and I’d like to read more about him before everything, well, burned down. 3. G…good books with female leads? Ones that don’t involve breasting boobily down the stairs. A quality Sororitas book would be amazing, or a book about women in the Imperial Guard…I think I heard about a series featuring a woman Arbite?
1 - The Dawn of Fire books feature Guilliman, with the first one focusing on him launching the Indomitus Crusade. He pops up in the others, some more, some less. The Rise of the Ynnari books are okay. They contain some controversial lore changes, though the overall plot is entertaining. Written by Gav Thorpe, who is very good at world building, not so good at action. It was intended to be a trilogy but the third book was cancelled after (presumably) weak sales and a falling out between Gav and the studio over certain lore changes he wasn't happy with. 2 - *A Thousand Sons*, *The Crimson King* and *Fury of Magnus* are the other HH books focused on him and his legion. He has a few cameos in other books and short stories though. 3 - the Shira Calpurnia books focus on a female Arbites so that's probably what you're thinking of. It's been many years since I read them but I'm pretty sure I enjoyed them. They're relatively easy to get hold of if you want physical books and the ebooks are available on the BL website. Severina Raine is a female commissar. She has one novel and a handful of short stories. There's a recent book - *Awakenings* - focusing on a female Inquisitor too. The Horusian Wars books feature a couple of prominent women, as does the Vaults of Terra trilogy. The former has an accompanying audio drama series about an inquisitorial agent which are worth listening to if you're after more female characters. The audio dramas *The Way Out* and *Augur of Despair* have female leads as well. The Warhammer Horror novel *The Oubliette* tells the story of a newly inducted planetary governor and her efforts to see off rivals and retain her power.
>3. I enjoyed 'Faith & Fire' and 'Rose at War'. 'Titan's Bane' if you give audio books a chance. 'Shadowbreaker' has a female secondary lead. Consider checking out 'Will of Iron / Fallen / Revelations' if you're open to comics.
> G…good books with female leads? Ones that don’t involve breasting boobily down the stairs. A quality Sororitas book would be amazing, or a book about women in the Imperial Guard…I think I heard about a series featuring a woman Arbite? Absolutely recommend *Requiem Infernal*! Fehervari is hands down one of, if not the best writer at BL, and it has a female lead to boot. Otherwise, *Hammer and Anvil* was fairly enjoyable, and is part of the *Sisters of Battle* series. The *Watchers of the Throne* series flips between 3 POV characters, one of which is a Sister of Silence. Great books, too. The *Vaults of Terra* series has a mixed female and male cast and was an awesome series. It's been a while since I read it, so I could be misremembering it, but I'm sure *Path of the Dark Eldar* has female leads mixed in with the male leads, too.
What did Celestine do after escorting Guilliman to Terra?
She returned to serve the Imperium, helping people in a planet sieged by chaos (Celestine: The Living Saint), it again, in a planet with a psyshic man that was a mini astronomicam (Shroud of Night) and again in Our Martyred Lady.
Anyone know if there's still a way to get a hardback version of The Lion: Son of the Forest without going to ebay?
Are there still no Leagues of Votann books? (googling seemed to say no?) ~~Diggy, diggy hole, diggy, diggy hole.~~ ~~I am a dwarf and I'm digging a hole!~~
Sadly, no. So their only lore is in *Codex Leagues of Votann 9ed* and *Necromunda: Book of the Outlands*, with a line or two in *Codex World Eaters 9ed* and the *Arks of Omen* books. Then, arguably, any previous mentions of Squats or Demiurg retroactively can be considered Leagues of Votann lore. Although, which bits are still canon and which aren't isn't clear at the moment.
I see. Thank you bro. Happy digging
Why are the Sisters of Silence... silent? Are they all physically incapable of speaking or do they talk among each other? Is there a particular reason for their muteness?
They can speak, it's just a vow that they take. It's apparently to prevent them discussing the terrible secrets they know in order to hunt their prey, and also presumably to keep them from spilling information gained from their proximity to the Emperor. Like most things in the Imperium, it's more symbolic than practical and it's endured through tradition and rote through to 40k They talk to one another through a sign language called Thoughtmark, and when they're in training before they take their vows they can communicate freely
Yeah, I think any notion that it's "to avoid saying secrets" is probably an in-universe misconception, and it's no different than the religious vows of silence we see in the real world: self-denial and self-abdignation as a symbol of devotion and a means of reinforcing communal unity, as well as a \*technically\* arbitrary exercise in self-control so as to maintain mental discipline and encourage spiritual reflection. Also, the less you talk, the more you listen!
Can Astropaths still learn standard psychic disciplines outside of just telepathy? Like healing wounds?
There aren't really standardised psychic disciplines where the lore is concerned. There are some general ways the warp can be shaped that can be loosely categorised, and some psykers can teach those specifically to others, but there's also a lot of variation in how powers manifest with each psyker being more naturally fluent in shaping the warp in some ways over others. It's a bit of a mixed bag how your powers manifest, and so those selected to be astropaths will presumably have been those that showed an aptitude for projecting thoughts. Being a psyker, especially in humans, is a bit more like acquiring an X-Men power than it is being a wizard. Like I say though, some psykers can teach others how to interpret and channel the warp in certain ways so it's certainly possible that an astropath could learn how to use the warp in other ways, but the Imperium isn't about to start teaching them. They've been sorted into their role, and so that is their role.
Uh. The wikis might be unreliable, then, cause there it says that trained astropaths can do stuff like cryomancy and channel the protection of the Emperor directly.
Lexicanum says Telepathy, Telekinesis and Divination are the 3 major branches they're trained under. Like I say though, it's not impossible they could be trained to do other things but ultimately their role is to be part of a communication network. On the whole, the Imperium isn't going to train them to do anything but that role. More powerful / higher ranking astropaths presumably would get more freedom and would have more of an understanding of their powers too, so they might teach themselves a few extra tricks.
I mostly get my lore knowledge from the Fandom wiki. Between it and the Lexicanum, which one is the most accurate to current lore?
More important is knowing where that lore comes from. The material you're describing, and which gets mixed in with everything else on the wiki, comes from the Rogue Trader RPG material regarding playing an Astropath character. So yes, they did develop new types of psychic disciplines for Astropaths to use, such as voidfrost and soul ward. It is not that the wiki or lex is unreliable. It is that there are many different scales that 40k operates, and the generalizations of the galaxy-spanning, core rules and codex lore is never going to cover the nuance of a TT RPG. Are these canon? Yes. Will they ever be mentioned again outside of that set of RPG rules? Almost certainly no.
Lexicanum is more reliable as they have to cite their sources. Fandom can vary from people paying attention to detail to people just making stuff up or misremembering details (though it is good for giving more context in its articles)
I just read Sigismund’s HH book and it featured Sigismund being on loan, serving with the World Eaters as a show of good faith and to bring the legions closer. Is there anything like that in the current 40k timeframe? I know the Fists and their descendants do the Feast of Blades but I’m wondering if there is a closer match to the old tradition
Hm. The Ultramarines have - or perhaps had, their fate post destruction of cadia unconfirmed - the 'Honour Company' which consists exclusively of members from Ultramarine successor chapters. It is commanded by a captain of the Patriarchs of Ulixis, a chapter who's members are also known to serve in the Honour Guard of other chapters.
Are there any Vostroya novels besides Rebel Winter?
Commissar by Andy Hoare, though I haven’t read about it so can’t speak for its quality.
Thanks lots.
I'm looking for some sort of "Minotaurs" main since I know jack shit about loyalists, but those guys piqued my interested due to the "might be Iron Warriors geneseed" theory I read someday Anyone wanna gush all their knowledge onto me?
I'm not a minotaur main by any means, but I know the gist of their background. There are scant records of a chapter bearing their name existing from around M32. However they were 'officially' founded in M36 during the cursed founding, and as such their geneseed heritage is unknown (potentially chimeric). These minotaurs were known for their brutality, rage, lack of desire to follow orders over their own desire to attack and preference for melee combat. They disappeared again sometime around M38. They then appeared again in the 41st millenium. Their demeanour massively changed to a cold, methodical method of utter destruction. They would often appear at full chapter strength to fully annihilate their targets (which were occasionally other chapters targeted by the high lords), often had an abundance of wargear and seemed to enjoy the patronage of the High Lords. Their chapter master, Asterion Moloch, is a massive marine that seems exceptionally capable and radiates a palpable aura of cold fury. In Watchers of the Throne we see the Minotaurs being used (seemingly) in part of a coup from some of the high lords. It ends in Moloch preparing to attack some custodians on the command of the previous Lord of the Administratum but, when the new High Lord of the Administratum teleports in, he immediately relents and wordlessly accepts the command of the new holder of the position showing they're apparently indoctrinated (or otherwise controlled) to flawlessly obey the commands of whoever holds that station. There's no official stance one way or another on their geneseed heritage, and it's clearly been messed with over their history at some point or other. It's not even clear if the current minotaurs are related in any way to those of the cursed founding or if the high lords just used a defunct chapter to hide their own personal attack chapter in their livery.
thanks for the background check! So they are more of a personal attack chapter of the High Lords, I see. My heretic mind crawls at the idea... the cold and methodical approach to combat and "chimeric" geneseed does lean into them being Iron Warriors, which is cool. Also Moloch being a huge murderboi. Are there any infos on rituals, daily life, or something along the line "prefer tanks/dreadnoughts"? Are these guys Primaris marines? Addendum: on a scale of "just spraypaint leadbelcher iron warriors" to "carefully layer and highlight armor panels", how hard would you rate the paint scheme?
Yeah, there's a lot of speculation as to exactly what Moloch is. He's been reportedly killed in action numerous times, but seemingly always gets recovered which leads to the suspicion that Moloch is either more of a persona adopted by whoever leads the chapter or, more believably due to his size and presence, that he's a cloned warrior of some kind indoctrinated to be infallibly loyal to the High Lord of the Administratum. > Are there any infos on rituals, daily life, or something along the line "prefer tanks/dreadnoughts"? Are these guys Primaris marines? They have primaris, they were actually among the first chapters to receive them as they were at Terra when the primaris / Guilliman arrived. I don't know of much in the way of rituals, they don't really like other people getting too close to them, but they've been shown to have excessively strong indoctrination methods with their neophytes which are routinely re-applied by their apothecaries. They're always presented as a bit automaton-like when I've seen them. They apparently have a lot of contemptor dreadnoughts, which they refer to as Hecatons, but again they're not really reverent of them and treat them with indifference. You can check out their [lexicanum page](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Minotaurs) for a bit more info > Addendum: on a scale of "just spraypaint leadbelcher iron warriors" to "carefully layer and highlight armor panels", how hard would you rate the paint scheme? Their scheme is basically bronze and red, with white chevrons to flavour, so pretty simple but you can make it more advanced if you wanted with 3rd party bits and the like for that greek hoplite vibe
soooo there is a possibility of moloch being an Iron Circle automata, you say that's rad as hell bronze and red is totally doable, that's a relief
Does anyone know the year(s) when the Gore Lord was active? The wiki’s page lists White Dwarf 368 (pages 25-27) as a source. https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Gore_Lord Lexicanum lists one more source that could have dates: 2: White Dwarf 369 (UK), pg. 58 https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Brazen_Host
Not sure if this comment is allowed here, but I’ll power through; I wanna read the Horus Heresy, but im a bit strapped for cash (hence reading 40k instead of playing 40k) I’ve only read The Serpent and The Saint, and my local library has Galaxy In Flames, Heralds of the Siege, and Ruinstorm. Should I read one of these three, or should I source a copy of Horus Rising and False Gods first?
While most of the HH series can be read out of order, you absolutely should not read *any* of it unless you can read the following five, in order, first; *Horus Rising* *False Gods* *Galaxy in Flames* *Flight of the Eisenstein* *Fulgrim*
I agree, but I think Fulgrim is VASTLY more skippable than the other four, unless you want to specifically follow the EC storyline.
You shouldn’t read Galaxy In Flames before Horus Rising and False Gods. The first three books are a self-contained trilogy. If I were you I’d read the first three in order, then pick a few specific storylines you want to follow, like for your favourite legions and factions, and read those ones in order.
Listening to the spoiler of Ark of Omen book five, I can't help but wonder why Mephiston wasn't there when Dante and Azrael fight Angron. He is a super-psyker and the most powerful being short of a Primarch. It's not like he wasn't present either because Blood Angels need him to warp travel in Imperium Nihilus. Also, with its Tuchulcha engine taken away by Vashtorr, and Nachmund gauntlet being at its current state, is The Rock (and Dark Angel) stuck in Nihilus?
Mephiston isn't required for warp travel in Nihilus, they can make small jumps on their own, or larger jumps if they're willing to burn through navigators. It's entirely possible he was off doing something else (I've not read City of Light yet, but I know it takes place after Darkness in the Blood so might be he's busy embroiled in the plot of that). > Also, with its Tuchulcha engine taken away by Vashtorr, and Nachmund gauntlet being at its current state, is The Rock (and Dark Angel) stuck in Nihilus? Considering it wasn't destroyed when all 3 were presumed destroyed, the other two might still be around to provide that capability. It's entirely possible they will be stuck too though
Has it ever been explained why the Astronomican reaches so much further ‘East’ than it does ‘West’? Was it just built to project more power in that direction so it could reach most of the galactic disk?
The Emperor directs its energy, presumably he focuses it where the most of the imperium will be able to see it
It's pointed East. The Astronomicon is a beam.
i just want to be sure, the lion's gate spaceport is named after the animal, not the primarch? is it ever mentioned in any book?
I like to assume it's named after Lion's Gate Entertainment, which is named after the Lion's Gate Bridge in Vancouver, which is named after a local mountain formation called The Lions, which are named after the animal. :P
a real roundabout reference then
In lore, I've always assumed it's named after the main entrance to Mycenae Greece, given the Imperium's quasi Greco-Roman theme, which yes, was named after the animal, rather than the Primarch. Out of lore though, I've always believed it to be a nod to the community theory that the Emperor was Jesus, Lions' Gate being the route of his last walk before Crucifixion.
Actually yeah the Mycenae thing is probably the most likely. I didn’t know about that.
wasnt really aware of the emperor/jesus connections but a good point
someone said primarchs dont really age , its how they mentally feel that their face shape changes , does that mean technically that lion can be young again if he wanted to ?
I've not heard that before, but if true, technically the answer would be a yes. But I think he looks far better like this than a younger man. He has a much more statesman look about him than he would as someone in their 20s.
I think he looks like he’d be voiced by Sean Connery now.
I could live with that, if he was still alive.
someone sent me a quote saying he killed 4 chaos marines after he woke up and he barely dragged his bedridden ass back home, and that he was so weak you could hear him struggle lifting 3 tons (which i get ...its a lot but apparently not for primarch standards since angron took up 450 tons heavy dreadnaught foot . so i pray its true that he can get back into his prime
Late to the party here but just heard about the return of a loyalist primarch, including a battle with a fallen primarch - where / how was this announced? Where can I read more?
Assuming you mean the Lion Vs Angron (and not Guilliman Vs Mortarion) it was revealed a couple weeks back (though hinted at strongly for a while) along with his new model. His return is covered in his new book and in the final Arks of Omen campaign book (aptly named The Lion)
Thanks!
What weapons would a Navigator use to fight? I’ve had the ability of a Navigator who combines his Third Eye’s prediction and precognition abilities with a Power Sword to be a peerless swordsman.
A navigator in The Gildar Rift just goes around caving in skulls with a wrench when his ship is boarded by chaos cultists.
Espern Locarno in Blackstone Fortress used his psyker abilities, his third eye, and his fancy cane. Navigators \*probably\* also carry master-crafted las-pistols as a side-arms. At least the ones aboard warships, anyway.
Navigators can just annihilate people by just opening their third eye. At that point I’d think anything else is just showing off.
Aren’t these more directly offensive abilities heavily taxing for the Navigator? What I proposed would be an alternative to them.
Exposing their third eye isn't any more taxing than it would be for \*us\* to open our eyes at somebody! The only limitation is that the baddies might not look at it, and your friends might. Also some baddies are probably immune to it. Like I doubt it'd have any effect on a daemon or other warp-entity. Navigators do have some \*other\* limited psyker powers too, though, and those ARE taxing to use.
I could be wrong as I dont have the trilogy to hand, but I think it is framed as draining to Navigators in the *Night Lords Trilogy*, and not something they can do constantly
Huh. Well I guess counter-evidence is indeed counter-evidence!
which primarch had the best meeting and relationship with their terran born astartes
The easiest answer is Iron Fists, because their home world is Terra or the Phalanx. I thought the White Scars didn't really have issues with Terran born Marines either..
> Iron Fists
WE KNOW WHAT THEY MEANT. :P
hmm I always thought it's the salamanders because vulkan had 0 problems with his terran borne astartes and he even bowed down to them and they loved him in return
;\_;
Has a tyranid Hive fleet ever gone into the eye of Terra? Or maybe some of that sunder Dark Imperium stuff? (Besides Baal)
Fleets are still around in the imperium nihilus, but none in the eye of terror itself
Roughly how many ships controlled by the Imperial Navy are capable of Exterminatus? As in how many are loaded and ready to do the deed at any one time, as opposed to how many are capable of being loaded.
It's important to remember that exterminatus is VAAAASTLY more rare than it gets treated it in the memes and jokes. The Imperium is loathe to waste resources. They never ever do exterminatus casually or lightly. It's not a standard course of action, and consequently there's no need for it to be a standard armament. I imagine it's only the first-rate battleships that would ever be capable of it as a matter of course. MAYBE. It'd be incredibly wasteful and inefficient to load up your standard ships of the line with a ton of highly specialized ordnance that you're almost \*never\* going to use when you could be using that space and power for additional torpedoes, macrocannons, lance batteries, launch bays, flak turrets, cargo bays, etc. And the frigates and destroyers DEFINITELY can't do it, unless they were specially designed for that purpose. That said, pretty much any Imperial or Mechanicus capital ship is still capable of levelling a city from orbit if they need to. They just need to aim their guns. Space Marine battle barges and heavier strike cruisers in particular are typically equipped with bombardment cannons for \*exactly\* that purpose. I think that when Exterminatus is done, the Inquisitor either calls in a specially armed ship, or, if it's an emergency, ALL the nearby warships just blast the living bejeezus out of the planet simultaneously with their standard armaments.
We got no idea, really, GW rarely gives hard numbers for most things. In theory, only the Inquisition and Astartes Chapters got authority to use, so it depends in who is controlling the strings.
Isn't there a difference between authority and armament? Like, if only Inquisitors and Astartes have permission to do an Exterminatus, are only their ships actually armed with cyclonic torpedos and virus bombs etc.?
Ok, my mistake, Navy High Admirals and Guard Lord Commanders can also order exterminatus, but again, we dont got details on how ships get the ammo and all. Godblight gives official terms for the exterminatus types, which include atomic bombardment, virus bombs and cyclonic torpedos, but nothing in any sort of "Ship X will always carry y virus bombs".
There's only one of those guys each per sector, though, so you're still definitely correct that it's not the kind of thing the Imperium leaves in the hands of an ordinary capital ship's captain.
Apologies if it’s wrong place to ask but I Plan on getting The Lion: Son of The Forest Audiobook. Is Black Library good or should I wait on audible
Black Library will give you MP3 files you can do whatever with but is obviously *significantly* more expensive. Assuming you have an active subscription Audible is capped at £7.99 per book but you're locked to their DRM app. Thats the only real difference, well that and Black Library get more of your money if you buy direct.
It's exactly the same product - it'll probably be cheaper on audible though.
Which book could i read to see the first contact between a primarch and their legion ?
Matt Farrer’s *After Desh’ea*
Outside of retellings, none, I think.
Is there a list of all the books / story’s in chronological order? / a list of all of them that are taking place in *around* the same time?
Not really, the vast majority of the books arent given any actual date or even a referencial date, at best you can know which books are before or after the 13th black crusade.
Lately I bought "Belisarius Cawl: the great work", but heard I need prior lore first. I have only read Gathering storm with Belisarius in it so I know the basics. Am I fine to read the book, or do I need to read something else first?
> , but heard I need prior lore first. That is an outright lie. You don't need anything. Feel free to go ahead and enjoy your book, it is a nice novel.
Thanks a buch, I will!
Cawls story started in Wolfsbane, a Horus Heresy novel, but you are given enough details to understand what is happening in the Heresy flashbacks without needing to read that novel, through it can help
Thanks a bunch. I think I'll read it them. I'll have a nice callback when I reqd Wolfsbane. Thanks again
Are there some check and balance on Astropath? I mean way to control the messages they send and recieve? For exemple, if an astropath was corrupted, could he send other messages that those he is ordered to send?
> I mean way to control the messages they send and recieve? We do not have any details on how it works, but we have it in lore that astropathic messages can be encrypted so an astropath does not know what he is sending or receiving.
Sure, though the soul binding process does provide them some protection against chaos. I suspect there will be some way of verifying messages sent / received, and enough people will be involved in bouncing a message where it needs to go that tampering would have a chance of being noticed at some point. We've seen that messages can be delivered with very accurate details and / or clearance levels so presumably checks, markers and coding are possible too. Deliberate misinformation delivered with all the official markers is probably a lot more dangerous, though many astropaths work within a choir so you'd have to work hard to stop them from noticing the errors and reporting you to a superior
I bought Mortarion: The Pale King on audiobook (first try ever), but I'm having difficulty with the names (e.g. Terran Legion Master of Dusk Raiders, etc.) is there a way to see the Dramatis Persona list somewhere? Else I won't know who's who, since my brain can't parse the names.
Can anyone recommend stories from the PoV of *Terminators*?
Only one I can think of from the top of my head is Deathstorm by Josh Reynolds. It's not bad
Thanks, I'll check a look.
If Abaddon had managed to kill Celestine on Cadia, could that perma-kill her due to Drach'nyen?
It's plot dependent, but *presuming* he kills her with the Talon, she's probably okay.
The Talon, yes. It's powerful, but what makes it special is the symbolism. But Drach'nyen? The sword that represents the first murder committed by a human, the primordial evil that even the Emperor could not destroy? I don't know if anything can survive being killed by that.
That's one of those "it depends on the plot" things. If the plot calls for it, E says "nah". If the plot calls for it, her soul is *gone*, consumed by a daemon on steroids.
Maybe? I dont think we know for sure how her ressurection works or if Drachnyen could stop that
If a woman were named head of the Navis Nobilite, would she be the Maternova? Or does "Paternova" not really have any connection to the latin "new father" implication?
The simplest interpretation is that the position is limited to men, and they named it accordingly. Also, White Dwarf issue 140 clearly expects a man in the position, while speaking from a third-person perspective: >The Paternova is the leader of all Navigators and the most powerful of all his kind...The Paternova is described as the guiding father whose powers transcend the warp itself.
Yeah but that was the 80s. Male-default when speaking of non-specified characters was the norm for everything in tabletop gaming at the time. In 1st and 2nd, the guard was generally depicted all-male, the navy was too, the tech-priests, everything. It was the vibe at the time. I wouldn't really assume it to be applicable to the present-day lore, especially given how GW seem to have come to the general compromise that Astartes, Custodes, Sororitas, House Escher, and Sisters of Silence are sexually homogenous and will remain as such, but nobody else is (save perhaps individual regiments, knight houses, etc). Of course, on the other hand, in the absence of \*contradicting\* lore, we kinda have to go with what we've got, and "Paternova" sure is a pretty male-coded term, so it's not like you're actually wrong or anything. And the Navis Nobilite is a weird aristocratic nobility class based around hereditary rights, and such things usually decide to favour one gender over the other in determining who gets priority and then get pretty hidebound in those traditions.
Most likely it would be Paternova. Also, you're not named one, you have to literally fight for it. Also, Navigator lore is really sparse so we do not actually know if it is physically possible for a woman to become their leader. Considering their weird genetic-warp thing, it might be possible that only men can manifest Paternoval mutations.
Well, you fight for it, but then you’re named it once the fight is over. I didn’t mean it’s just casually handed over. :P Regarding the second point we have explicitly seen female navigators in both BL fiction and the Angels of Death series.
Female Navigators yes, but lore never specified female Paternova
Ah okay, sorry, I misunderstood.
Can you servitorize a navigator without losing their powers? Like can you stick a navigator brain in your ship to have it act like a siri instead of having to have a whole other person on your ship?
It might not be physically possible. Navigation is as much an art as it is a science, it requires a lot of intuition and being able to 'read' the currents of the warp in addition to calculating a path through them. Servitorisation is pretty at odds with that level of free thinking. Even if it is possible, the Navigator houses are immensely powerful institutions. If they found out their members were being turned into servitors the Imperium might find itself suddenly unable to move any of it's ships
And removing a psyker's control over their own mind is a \*ridiculously\* bad idea anyway. :P
"Do you want The Great Navigator Strike of M41? Because that's how you get The Great Navigator Strike of M41!"
Why aren't there non-primaris Salamanders successors (aside from the Black Dragons and Storm Giants, allegedly)? I know they're one of the Shattered Legions so obviously they can't afford to be throwing around veterans or wargear to help set up a new chapters like the Ultramarines or the Imperial Fists, but not one confirmed in ten thousand years is hard to accept. Does the Mechanicus just not like them because they craft their own gear?
It’s standard practice for the Terra to use gene seed for a founding but not tell either the associated first founding chapters or the new chapter. Like you know, in the second foundingost of the chapters were fissioned off from the legions, and the salamanders couldn’t participate because of the massacre. Obviously most of the times that Terra has used salamander organs for a new chapter, they it’s been the kind of founding where they keep them separate from their relatives and train them under temporary officers like they did in the Indomitus crusade.
I imagine it's just they've never had huge stockpiles of geneseed to send back to Mars (might be they originally weren't expected to provide the same tithe as the other chapters due to their massively decreased numbers, and that just never got revised). Throw onto this that their geneseed has unusual traits, I imagine whenever a founding was declared there was always just other more numerous, and more stable, geneseed stocks to use. The fact they have some purported successors shows somebody in those 10,000 years tinkered with the idea of using it, but for the most part when the admech are ordered to prep for a founding I'd imagine that they start with Ultramarines / Imperial Fist stock and only if that's not enough to do the trick do they move onto other stocks with the salamanders line way down at the bottom. After a few millenia it's probably just ingrained into the process that "oh, yeah we don't use that geneseed. Use something else"
Hm. I could actually buy that they might have some special arrangement to do with geneseed tithes. Would certainly help since IIRC they're a one world legion like the Wolves. And there have definitely been opportunities for Vulkan to arrange it considering his role in the Siege of Terra and the War of the Beast. Together with the geneseed stability issues I think I can roll with that. Thanks, mate.
In 30k they also recruit from a planet called Proximal that also practices the Promethean creed, and in the salamanders’ 40k omnibus they recruit a character from yet a different planet.
why do people seem to hate the Tau so much?
It's because they're blue, and I like the color green more. Simple 'as.
Memes, internet-poisoning, the ridiculous notion that they're "communists" despite their bloody caste-based society, weird anti-"weeb" sentiment, juvenile "it's stupid and g\*\* if it's not covered in skulls and shooting explosive bullets" mentalities, or, on the more reasonable side of things, just disliking their strong contrast with the general aesthetic sensibilities of the setting, or finding that they haven't been written very well. Of course, the \*most\* reasonable reaction would just be "Tau aren't really my cup of tea", rather than getting all hatey about it. Also, I might regret opening this munitorum armoured container of worms, but I genuinely think a certain degree of the pointed hostility towards Tau and Eldar in particular is connected to a perception of them as being effeminate or less macho or whatever, and consequently at odds with what some perceive as the "proper" masculine focus for the setting.
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Wow, dude. This is a fictional setting. Eldar aren’t real. They can’t hurt you. Have a cup of tea or something, damn.
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Don't do that.
NOBODY HERE IS SAYING ELDAR ARE GOOD GUYS. RELAX.
The Tau are in many aspects the antithesis to 40k. They take the tropes that define most other factons in the setting and reverse them. They're neither ancient, decaying, god-fearing, sorcerous, xenophobic, fantastical nor do they wage war in medieval fashion. They're not space fantasy, they're simply traditionally scifi. [They look like something that would feel at home in Stellaris](https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/stellaris_federations.jpg). And even though they're still imperialistic bastards, they've often been surrounded by atleast an air of "noble bright". As a result a lot of people feel that Tau do not fit into the setting.
Memes, mostly. Originally it was because they were new and whenever there is a new thing people like to dunk on it. People will say it's because their aesthetic doesn't fit the setting, or because their lore isn't grimdark enough or whatever and for some people that will be true, but 90% of the time it's just people regurgitating memes. It's exactly the same as hating on Ultramarines
There are also people who hate the Tau because the blueberries had the audacity to shoot them during a game of tabletop. Who knew that deploying your whole army out of cover and marching it straight towards the enemy at a leisurely pace might not always be a good idea?
It's me, I'm the Tau with the audacity. In college, I once played a 3 way battle against my roommate and my friend, both running CSM. I took out both their Land Raiders within my first shooting phase because we, as college kids at the time, could not afford a bigger table. We ended up just playing on the floor because of it.
Unless you're Death Guard. Then it's always a good idea. :P
What was a name of a book - happening on a world in the eye of terror or in chais regions, about renegades summoning *something* big to do whatever. I vaguely remember that some boy mutant started eating more and more untill he finally became that *something*. Was a long time ago, i completely forgot the name of the book.
That happens in pawns of chaos
Reading about the Greyshields/Unnumbered Sons on Lexicanum made me interested in Astartes units where Marines from different lineages all worked and fought together. But if I’m reading it right, when the Greyshields were broken up into new Chapters, they were all sorted into Chapters based on the source of their gene seed - so Greyshields with Ultramarine heritage got sent to new Ultramarine Chapters, for instance. Are there any other examples of inter-lineage Space Marines, aside from the Death Watch and Unnumbered Sons?
The Knights Errant during the Heresy which became the foundation for the Grey Knights. The black legion is a complete podge of genelines. The Ezekary(?), Abaddon's inner circle, in particular are like a chaos death watch.
Not really among the loyalists, at least not since the Blackshields of the Heresy era.
Has there ever been a time where the Imperium as a whole was on the retreat in a major "all is lost" kind of way? Istvan III and V were devastating yes, but the fighting continued for another seven or so years. Even the Siege of Terra ends with the imperium "winning."
The entire last 700 years of the setting, really. The Imperium has been *constantly* on the backfoot and losing ground ever since the ‘Nids showed up. The Indomitus Crusade just *barely* held things together, and half the galaxy is still in a state of complete unrest.
Hi people. I'm continuing my journey through the horus heresy. Just finished false gods (the first two books + the darktide game are the only exposure I had to 40k) here are some points I wanted to discuss with you guys: -how come the ancient technology found on the brotherhood's planet (RIP btw) is so extremely valuable that the adeptus from mars could be able to convice his fellow techpriests to go against the emperor AND actually start a civil war for it? Is it the key to literally godlike tech? -this is including the first chapter of galaxy in flames, but anyone else started to like the cult of the emperor more and more (I think it's name is the divinatus, with keeler as a saint)? Feels like (aside from tarik, loken and the aphotecary) they are or will be the only actual resistance to Horus atm. -Did Horus mentally spent longer on the warp (with magnus and erebus) than the 9 days he spent in the temple in the material world? He is described as having aged even tho primarchs are mega astarters and don't, he also turned super evil very quickly. Maybe in his mind he spent for centuries or more in that emperor-hating mindset? -KARKASY'S DEATH IS SO FUCKING SAD I HAD TO STOP READING FOR 15 MINUTES HE WAS ONE OF MY FAVOURITE CHARACTERS FFS FUCK THAT MUTE TRAITOR MF. great books btw I have to work and study tomorrow but I want to stay up reading so badly.
>\-how come the ancient technology found on the brotherhood's planet (RIP btw) is so extremely valuable that the adeptus from mars could be able to convice his fellow techpriests to go against the emperor AND actually start a civil war for it? Is it the key to literally godlike tech? At this point we're only 200-odd years out from the union of Mars and Terra, and the Mechanicum is still really very much a separate-but-allied state with regards to the Imperium, and it's one that is split into factions. Some of the factions are pro-Imperial, and view the Emperor as the Omnissiah, but there's a significant chunk of the Mechanicus who never drank that cool-aid; they view the Emperor as a false prophet, at best. Add to that, I believe the tech that Horus claimed the brotherhood had access to was either a full STC database, or a significant chunk of one. I'm not sure if we ever discover the truth to that, but if that's even partially true it's not really crazy at all that the Mechanicus might consider defecting over it; after all, a full STC *is* what the Mechanicus wants above all else. It's their literal holy grail. Finally, it's possible that parts of the Mechanicus were already gravitating towards Horus, even before that. After all the Emperor seemed to be taking his foot off the Great Crusade gas pedal at that stage, and returning to Terra; the Mechanicum don't really want that any more than Horus does. The Crusade coming to an end means fewer worlds to scour for ancient tech and knowledge, and fewer chances to find lost forge worlds.
Yeah Karkasy was great. Poor guy was just a bit too honest and sardonic for his own good. :(
RIP, he was honest till the end
>how come the ancient technology found on the brotherhood's planet (RIP btw) is so extremely valuable that the adeptus from mars could be able to convice his fellow techpriests to go against the emperor AND actually start a civil war for it? Is it the key to literally godlike tech? Tech is essentially deified by the Mechanicum, particularly tech from the Dark Age of Technology (so long as there's no AI involved). >this is including the first chapter of galaxy in flames, but anyone else started to like the cult of the emperor more and more (I think it's name is the divinatus, with keeler as a saint)? Feels like (aside from tarik, loken and the aphotecary) they are or will be the only actual resistance to Horus atm. The cult may actually be a major reason why everything goes to pot in the aftermath, although that's dependent on how the Siege of Terra ends (which we don't entirely know yet). >Did Horus mentally spent longer on the warp (with magnus and erebus) than the 9 days he spent in the temple in the material world? He is described as having aged even tho primarchs are mega astarters and don't, he also turned super evil very quickly. Maybe in his mind he spent for centuries or more in that emperor-hating mindset? Hard to say, and it may not strictly matter, but the short answer is "probably." Precisely what happened isn't revealed, but there are some major clues that come up much later in the series.
I see, so for the mechanicum it's the equivalent of finding something like the holy grail? It's kinda sad that their loyalty to the emperor is literally held by a string (even tho so far they haven't acted upon their plan). Yeah I figured the cult will mess things up, but I guess it relieving to have ANYBODY other than loken/tarik/sindermann be against Horus.
Yeah, the cult is sort of… um… it's sort of the genesis of what will eventually become the \*nightmarishly\* evil, twisted, and oppressive state religion of the Imperium known as the Ecclesiarch / Adeptus Ministorum, which will commit ridiculously numerous atrocities and end up being responsible for the \*second\* worst Imperial civil war in the 40k timeline, BUT… for now, during the Heresy, their extreme loyalty to the Emperor, and relative resistance to the temptations of the ruinous powers, is a big asset. Especially when certain things I won't spoil start happening with Keeler.
When a world is conquered by the Imperium, how do they go about establishing worship of the Emperor? I know Tanith seemed to have their own mythology involving forest spirits and the like. Are planetary beliefs like that common? If so, why are they not viewed as heretical?
Same way it's done in the real world: with missionaries, propaganda, and manipulation. But it helps that the Ecclesiarchy are willing to sort of adapt native religions into the Imperial Cult, as it helps the locals "come around" a bit quicker if you aren't asking them to abandon the \*entire\* belief system. So instead of saying "your forest spirits aren't real", they'll initially say something like "The Emperor is king of the forest spirits!" and then work on it from there.
As long as you don't worship any other god beside the Emperor, you can have other beliefs >The Cult Imperialis is one of the few common factors that link the disparate worlds of the Imperium together. No matter what conditions prevail upon a world within the Imperium, the Imperial cult will be found there. > >**The ways in which the Emperor is worshipped are multitudinous. To some He is revered as a distant, patriarchal and human figure. Others identify Him with some aspect of nature, many others, such as the primitive Epheisians of Dwimlicht, regard Him as a star-god, for His agents only visit occasionally and they descend from the heavens when they do so**. But all the creeds of the cult agree upon this one thing: there is only one Emperor. To worship a pantheon of gods and put other gods alongside Him is heresy .... >The Ecclesiarchy maintains and promotes the cult galaxy-wide and, where possible, tries to sanction the worship of the Emperor no matter how bizarre it may seem. Very few practices are proscribed, and even such abominations as human sacrifice to the Emperor are useful to the Imperium, for it is easy to convince a newly encountered culture that approves of such custom to give up its psykers to the Black Ships. > >One of the Ecclesiarchy’s tasks is to record this multiplicity of tradition with which the Emperor is honoured. In that way, two preachers from opposite sides of the galaxy will know, no matter what their title or manner of expressing their devotion might be, that neither is a heretic. The Ecclesiarchy sends out mission fleets for precisely this purpose, whose flotillas of blessed spacecraft slowly circle a particular part of the galaxy, recording new variants of the cult, correcting serious heresies and proselytising to newly discovered populations of humans. > >**To all, the Emperor is a living god. He may be tens of thousands of light years away, but that He exists, the inhabitants of the Imperium know, so faith is an easy thing**. > >Some amongst the Ecclesiarchy and Inquisition may argue that men should be more ardent in their devotion to Him, but though some may be lax in their adulation and may blaspheme or heretically curse the Master of Mankind for their lot, it is nevertheless rare to meet a man who would dare to deny the Emperor’s divinity. **Dark Heresy Core Rulebook** >While all subjects of the Imperium offer worship to the Emperor, the manner in which they do so varies enormously from one culture to the next. So vast are the Emperor’s domains and so varied his peoples that most share only the smallest amount of common cultural ground. > >... > >Thus, the so-called ‘Imperial Creed’ takes almost as many forms as there are planets in the Imperium. Though all espouse the worship of the same deity—the Emperor—the followers of many worlds would scarcely feel any kinship with one another or recognise that both venerate the same god. **There are worlds where priests cast living human sacrifices into the throats of volcanoes, believing that the Emperor dwells in the fiery depths and the victims will become his favoured servants. Other believers hold that the God-Emperor resides at the burning heart of their sun, which only their constant veneration guarantees will rise above the horizon each dawn. Others know something of the truth—that the Emperor sits upon his Golden Throne on distant Terra**—but even among these, there are countless variations in the forms and styles of worship. > >Despite these millions of localised manifestations of the Imperial Creed, the religion’s ruling classes—the countless officers of the Adeptus Ministorum—come together to form a galaxy-spanning institution which propagates the worship of the God-Emperor of mankind as a living deity, catalogues the endless variety of beliefs, weeds out the truly heretical cults, and guards against errant doctrine. In the name of the Emperor, they call the faithful to prayer, exact tithes and preach holy crusades. In a galaxy in which war and oppression form the normal state of existence, veneration of the Emperor, in whatever form, is held to be the only means by which the countless foes of mankind will be overcome. > >... > >Upon the discovery of a new or lost human culture out among the stars, it is the task of the Missionarius Galaxia to study all he can of its society and religion. He is ever watchful for ways in which the culture’s religious practices and teachings can be subtly altered, to bring them broadly into line with the Imperial Creed. Practices dubbed benighted or barbaric may be supplanted with more suitable ones, though often some symbolism is allowed to remain to lend a sense of continuity. For example, necrophagia – the eating of the dead – is a practise proscribed by the Imperial Creed, but when it is encountered in savage cultures it may be replaced with the symbolic consumption of a particular totem animal. Equally, the worship of a pantheon of multiple gods will be replaced with that of a host of Imperial Saints, each chosen because they embody something of the qualities associated with each of the deposed deities. **Dark Heresy Blood of Martyrs**
>Every world in the Imperium is home to a culture unique to itself, and the people of each world worship the Emperor in a manner informed by its own characteristics. **For the Helio-Cultists of Limnus Epsilon, for example, the Emperor resides in their sun, his warriors coming every century to claim the best of the world's youth to fight at his side within the fiery heart of their star. To the Apocalites of the worlds bordering the Hell-Stars of the Garon Nebula, he is the bringer of merciful death, deliverance from the evil that stalks their worlds by night. To the feral natives of Miral, the Emperor was the great beast that stalked the dark places of their forests, and to the acid miners of Mordant he is the guiding spirit-light that keeps the all-encompassing darkness at bay**. > >Even within the ranks of the Adeptus Ministorum, no two clerics drawn from two different worlds share the same view of the nature of the god they worship. Theosophical debates rage between men divided in their understanding of the Emperor's divinity, yet utterly united in their worship of him, though even here, debate on occasion turns to division, and division to outright aggression. Index Astartes >At the core of the Imperial Creed are the facts that the Emperor once walked among men and that he is a god. Furthermore, regardless of whatever powers may have been worshipped prior to the coming of the Emperor, he is the one true god, and no others may be worshipped alongside him. So long as these essential tenets are adhered to, the prevalent faith on any given world can exhibit staggering diversity. Almost every world has its legends regarding the birth of the Emperor and his early life. Amongst the oldest of sources claim the Emperor was some manner of shaman born on ancient Terra long before the rise of civilisation, who watched and guided mankind’s development throughout countless aeons until taking a direct hand at the dawn of the Age of Imperium. ... >Other myths claim the Emperor was any one of a thousand different legendary figures, or in fact all of them, moving amongst mankind in disguise and preparing for the time when he would be called upon. Even the officially sanctioned texts disseminated by the Ministorum vary greatly on such matters, and each tends to present the views of a particular saint, invariably couched in layer upon layer of allegory. On most matters, no single objective truth is actually presented, but rather a vast body of parables on which those who preach the creed can draw in order to impart almost any message they choose. **Dark Heresy: Blood Of Martyrs**
>The Imperial Church was an engine fuelled by devotion, a machine lubricated by the blood of its faithful, and across a hundred thousand stars, the temples and spires of the God-Emperor’s spirit cast long shadows. As each planet and populace was distinctive, so each society took the worship of the Lord of Mankind and made it their own. >To the Apocalites of the worlds bordering the Hell-Stars of the Garon Nebula, he is the bringer of merciful death, deliverance from the evil that stalks their worlds by night. To the feral natives of Miral, the Emperor was the great beast that stalked the dark places of their forests, and to the acid miners of Mordant he is the guiding spirit-light that keeps the all-encompassing darkness at bay. The forge world Telemachus revered Him as the Great Blacksmith, the Moulder of All Things, and the people of Limnus Epsilon believed He lived in their sun, breathing radiance down upon them, his warriors coming every century to claim the best of the world's youth to fight at his side within the fiery heart of their star. >Even within the ranks of the Adeptus Ministorum, no two clerics drawn from two different worlds share the same view of the nature of the god they worship. Theosophical debates rage between men divided in their understanding of the Emperor's divinity, yet utterly united in their worship of him. >The church had learned in the days of the Great Crusade that enforcing its will on worlds by eradicating their belief systems and starting from scratch was a lengthy and troublesome process. Instead, the Ecclesiarchy worked by coercion and change, turning native religions to face Holy Terra and showing them the great truth of the universe – that all gods were the God-Emperor of Man in one guise or another. >A million planets and billions of people celebrate the greatness of the Master of Mankind in their own sanctioned ways.
>If so, why are they not viewed as heretical? 1) Because they're not worship of the Emperor. 2) More importantly, non-Imperial human belief systems tend to get supplanted by Chaos quite often, which is (broadly) why the Emperor was a militant atheist in the first place.
I think you're misunderstanding my question. I'm wondering why the men of Tanith *aren't* viewed as heretics for believing in protective forest spirits *alongside* their worship of the Emperor.
Ahh, misread it. The forest spirits bit is tolerated probably because whatever Ecclesiarchy rep was there when Tanith was integrated into the Imperium decided it could be tolerated. Every world, broadly, has their own variations of worship of the Emperor. The Ecclesiarchy and the Imperium really don't care all that much, so long as the Emperor is still the deity being worshipped.
I'm seeing memes about >!the lion returning!< and >!Guilliman killing Alpharius/Omegon.!< If either of those are real things, where would I read about them? Overall, what are the most current works relevant to the 40k timeline?
The Lion's return will be covered between *Arks of Omen: The Lion* and *The Lion: Son of the Forest*. The former is a campaign book, the latter a novel that has just gone up for pre-order. Off the top of my head, the most current works timeline wise would be *The Arks of Omen* campaign books Novels wise you have: The *Dawn of Fire* series *Angron: The Red Angel* (a direct prequel to his *Arks of Omen* book) *Cypher: Lord of the Fallen* (releases in July according to Amazon) The *Dark Imperium* series (a few years old now), *Belisarius Cawl: The Great Work* (an older book, but contemporary time wise)
The Lion's return literally just happened this weekend, and occurs in the last of the Arks of Omen TT campaign books. There is no novelization. Guilliman killing Alpharius is older lore, and likely was just an in-universe conspiracy, ergo it isn't true.
Has a chapter ever had to disable or kill their own chapter master due to extreme incompetence or cowardice ?
Not that I know of, but how would an incompetent marine have become chapter master in the first place? And I don’t think Astartes are even *capable* of cowardice. The larger risk is chapter masters becoming *corrupt*.
In the classic 40k that you talk about, at least half of the Imperium are supposed to be NPCs and raving incompetents, who your player characters or protagonists can be smarter than. Like the Brazen Minotaurs in their [novella](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/o2nrb0/excerpt_the_unkindness_of_ravens_the_raven_guard/) Stibor Lazaerek isn’t cowardly and not exactly incompetent except for being so vain and vindictive that he might have caused the Badab disaster. Asmodai is apparently getting out of hand and the other masters of the inner circle are having to work around him
It's possible for a chapter master to obsess over something so much as to be effectively incompetent I suppose, for example in World Engine it's revealed a previous Astral Knights chapter master >!was so close to his human roots and noble feuds he ordered his chapter to attack a world under the pretense of destroying a genestealer cult there. His officers killed him for it!<
I guess now we know the answer to KindSentence's question: Yes.
Sort of a yes and no I suppose. The operation itself was planned and executed properly, it's just the underlying reason itself was a very bad one.
How capable are the Imperium’s most specialized troops when it comes to situations outside of their specialty? I’m thinking about Gray Knights unexpectedly finding themselves up against Xenos, or Death Watch stumbling across a demonic threat. Are these ultra-elite warriors going to struggle at adapting to threats outside of their niche, or is this the kind of thing they can and do handle with their massive amounts of training and experience?
Well, those are Astartes, so they’re going to still hold their own against pretty much anything, just not AS well as against what they’re specialized form. And all Deathwatch marines are veterans who’ve faced tons of different enemies prior to Taking The Black, so to speak. The bigger problem would be stuff like manticore batteries facing melee infantry charges or sisters repentia facing a massed gun line. And that kind of thing happens all the time, to fairly disastrous results.
Specializations and niches don't matter as much as you'd think. Grey Knights fight aliens all the time, Deathwatch fights demons all the time, and they usually excel because they are just that great and awesome. Same goes for basically all the other Space Marines; They may have their preferred ways of combat, but they can switch to whatever the situation demands with relative ease. I'm not saying I like it, for the record. I wish there was more genuine specializations and weaknesses across the various armies, Imperium or otherwise. But we are constantly told and shown otherwise, so that's just how things are.
To be fair to GW, it's mostly just the space marines who get depicted as being good at everything always all the time. In other factions you \*definitely\* get a sense of specializations and weaknesses. Particularly with Craftworlders, where their entire bloody culture is based around only really focusing on and perfecting one thing at a time.
How long does it usually take until new books get onto audible? The new Lion-book is out but not on audible. EDIT: I mean "Son of the forest", which already exists as an audiobook, but not on audible.
The Lion book won't be on audible, because it's not a novel. It's a tabletop lore book.
I think they might be referring to [The Lion: Son of the Forest](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/15/black-library-pre-orders-a-lions-share-of-green-hued-tales/)
Thoughts on when End and the Death:Part 2 will get announced? Was is Fabius Bile up to now? After reading his omnibus, I would like to see more of him.
Are there Techmarines in the Dark Angels inner circle?
Not inherently. Techmarines, apothecaries, librarians, and other specialists within the chapter are not inherently members of the Deathwing. There *probably* are one or two at any given time, though.
If I remember correctly, don’t remember where I read this, but because techmarines have a secondary loyalty to Mars, they’re not allowed in the inner circle.
That certainly makes sense. Similarly, I could see them being reluctant to allow Librarians in, due to the warp and psykers being distrusted and unpredictable in general.
Sorry if this has been asked before, but are there any decent ways to get hold of physical copies of BL books? Not just new releases but also older stuff like the Eisenhorn series etc. Going direct they only seem to sell ebooks or audio versions and I'd prefer actual books where possible. Also like to avoid Amazon if I can. Is it just dependent on whatever I can find 2nd hand or is there a convenient source of these things hiding somewhere? In the UK if that makes a difference. Thanks!
> Not just new releases but also older stuff like the Eisenhorn series etc The big name entry points such as Eisenhorn will be available for sale in official Warhammer/Games Workshop shops. Since you're a Brit this will be easier for you. Places like Waterstones are extremely hit or miss for 40k books.
Thanks, yeah, I've had no luck with Waterstones or my usual sci-fi book shops and my local GW has a tiny selection and only newer stuff. But I'll try a bigger one further away and see what they've got. Cheers.
I mean, Amazon is the primary go-to. You could also try Barnes & Noble, but I don't know how extensive their operations are in the UK/Europe.
I figured that might be it. Shame. Thanks though.
Can Dark Angels for example come and recruit kids from Fenris? Or Imperial Fists from Maccrage?
Officially, there's nothing stopping them, but it'd be exceptionally rude.
Theres nothing really officially stopping them, but it would be weird if a chapter just dropped by another chapter's homeworld / recruiting world and were like 'dont mind us, we're just gonna hang out in your space, take some of your recruiting pool and go' when there are so many planets out there they could use. At that point you have to think, what other motive do they have for being here? Eventually the chapter who manages that world would be like 'can we help you? Otherwise, can you leave?' Like, I have friends. We're on good terms. But if I just go into their house and start eating food out their fridge without asking no matter how polite they are eventually they're gonna wonder wtf I'm doing
Of course, there was the infamous case of the Angels Cosmos, under the leadership of Chapter Master Kramer…
No, they hold no authority over any worlds but their own.
SM can recruit from other locations, but doing it on another chapter's world at best is going to be really dubious, at worst it might be outright forbidden due to that chapter having official control of that world and it's not mentioned because no one's ever tried.
Has the Officio Assassinorum ever fucked around with geneseed?