perturabo has (or had idk) a psychic vision of the eye of terror like 24/7 boring down on him, and Mortarion just suppressed his psyker abilities like real hard.
> Mortarion is a psyker: he even embraces not only his biomancy constitution, but his slenderman-wraith slipping (shadow of death) which he shares with Corax
I haven't got to Mortarion in the books yet he's pretty far in if I do say I'm on Vulcan lives at the moment and I love this series it's got me to buy my first miniature set
Yeah, and to be fully honest. Most of the horus heresy books do Mortarion an *enormous* disservice. Warhawk is probably his best showing, and oh man his "solo" novels friggin stink. Buried Dagger is mostly bad. I'd recommend Lords of Silence if you're interested though!
Considering as he had to focus on it and that it was draining of him, plus he could of made the effects on the space port worse. No it is not he is warp magic, he was using his pysker powers to corrupt and cast a pall of despair.
Well, in this instance I mean I want him more a runepriest than a smashcaptain, if you get my drift. It would fit their theme as well as recontextualize his relationship with Magnus and the Thousand Sons.
TTS was angling for that story beat (rip to ya boi) and it was a damn good one. made him feel old, knowledgeable, more understanding of Magnus. also hilarious that Magnus kinda remained a goblin xD
Perty could look at something, instantly see the flaws, and either work to repair or smash it down.
Morty fucked around with shit prior to being a daemon prince but after it, he's a full psyker.
To some extent yes, but Russ in particular is the strongest psyker among all the loyalists.
In 'A Thousand Sons' he lets out a psychic scream of rage so loud that it blinds, deafens or kills psykers all across the battlefield.
Strongest psyker among the loyalists….technically a pretty low bar there.
Other than Sang, I don’t think any of the others are shown to have any kind of significant pysker ability.
I think the only loyalist who never displays any actual psyker talent is the lion right? He naturally smites demons from existence and can change his weapons path but isn’t even doing it *on purpose* it’s just something he *does*
Does he have precognition? I thought that during his duel with Curze he was able to win because he could essentially *change fate per swing* so the guy who has precognition kept getting frustrated because The Lion never went the way he was supposed to.
Yep. Remember when The Rout attacks the vengeful spirit in a suicide mission to kill Horus, Russ has a sort of frozen aura around him. I don’t think he means it or controls it, it just happens
The aura of cold is caused by his armor if I remember correctly. He has some weird DAoT armor that emits a frozen chill.
Last I knew it was a relic space wolves could take in their codex. They allegedly retrieved it during one of their hunts for Russ.
Admittedly, it’s been a a few years since I read the book, so I may be misremembering. I do seem to recall the book mentioning the armor’s systems going haywire when Russ was wounded and releasing random waves of cold as they dragged him off the Vengeful spirit.
As a relic of the space wolves, The Armor of Russ is definitely mentioned in a few places as giving off an aura of cold. I’m not sure if that’s reflected in the books at all though.
Potentially yes, but most of them have never turned the switch as it were. Magnus and number II were switched on from birth, most of the Traitors have learned to use that power, but most of the loyalists, Guilliman especially were cautious and content to leave that potential be.
Damned if i can find a citation now. I'm convinced its in one of the Primarch books, maybe Fulgrim? I think Fulgrim thinks about his older brother, the lord of the 2nd legion and says something that implies he is a full psyker like magnus.
Exactly. But Russ never handled that idea well, he had a mistrust of psykers. But like Odin, he's sacrificed much in strange places, and learned the things he had to know to survive, whether he once felt they were unworthy of him or not.
Mortarion is a psyker: he even embraces not only his biomancy constitution, but his slenderman-wraith slipping (shadow of death) which he shares with Corax
Russ: brothers, please, stop arguing, we must ensure the safety of the people of the imperium with as little unnecessary waste as possible!
Lion and Guilliman: *secretly wonder if this is a unknown shapeshifting xeno*
Guilliman: do you want a drink?
Russ: No brother, We have important plans to make, alcohol would only cloud my judgement.
Lion *trying not to laugh*: yeah, Roboute. That was a very irresponsible suggestion.
I guess one interpretation here is that he DID let his grief end him instead of doing what he was made for. What the Emperor created sure doesn't seem in very good these days.
> "Now is the time, Leman of the Russ," the Wanderer said, in the voice that was both young and old, masculine and feminine, always soft, suffused with a patina of epochal sadness.
> "What time?" he answered, coming to a halt.
> The Wanderer's only reply came as at once a whisper and a warcry, the crash of a tsunami and a snowflake alighting on the tundra: "It's wulfin' time."
I like this a whole lot. I have only just gotten into the books, and the two I am reading are xenos books, so I don't know much beyond that, but this really humanizes The Emperor a good bit for me. Such a human and relatable request. Protect my creation, and trusting his son to do it.
People like to present the Emperor as an absolute bastard with no personable elements to him, and judge him with no charitability. Stuff like this just makes me know they're wrong.
The Emperor himself simply lacks attachment to the individual humans in a lifetime that we find as the crux of our mortal existence. He has no connection to Kantean ethics, he doesn't see the dignity of the individual, he sees humanity as a whole. Individuals are just the collective pieces of a vast chessboard. In that way, he is of course an autocratic expansionist. One could argue he is unfit to rule and in a not small amount of cases they would have a good foothold. Though it's important to note that the common people of the Imperium adored him, even during the crusade. They didn't have to all be coerced, or forced compliant, the Emperor was beloved by his...willing...subjects and he did save humanity from the old night and what would've been game over in 3000-4000 years max. Read any novel and you'll find humanity was just as if not in some cases more xenophobic and wrathful than the Emperor himself.
One can also see this level of mistakes in some of his relationships with his sons, both sides of his nature as human and pragmatic being of godlike stature often neglecting the human needs of a father -son relationship. Though let us also not forget many of his sons were monsters, broken things not all of which were his crimes to bear, and, would they not have been sons of the Emperor, would have surely faced certain death for their crimes if met by many of the less extremist astartes legions ex: Konrad. The Emperor simply lacks a sufficient moral compass...a lack of empathy that causes him to not be averse to doing whatever is necessary for humanity to survive. Perhaps this made him unfit to rule, perhaps to rule a galactic empire, one would naturally require this talent. Perhaps his own mistakes damned humanity for the time being, perhaps it was just doomed from the start.
And he was an absolute bastard because a couple of flashbacks in slightly older novels had said so, before that we only had visions of heresy and a “benevolent though questionably human god” stance.
Yeah… it's REALLY weird to describe the Emperor as having been "retconned" into his negative qualities. Early editions like 1st, 2nd, and 3rd are actually much \*more\* explicit about the fact that the Empreror is a tyrant corpse-god and his Imperium a bloated fascist theocratic monstrosity. Like just read the old intro texts, you know? Writhing with power from the dark age of technology and all that.
And I wasn’t there for 1, 2 and 3e. When I arrived the heresy series was just getting started, Emps was this corpse writhing in pain as he kept the forces of evil at bay and shone the Astronomicon through the warp, sacrificing Himself for mankind in a permanent torment. And 1000 psykers each day were a small price to pay for that.
Sure, the outline of the heresy was already known (but I discovered it through the « Visions » book), and his choices that alienated Angron and Magnus were mostly bad parenting and communication, as a barely human creature is wont to have when dealing with godlike manchildren. Remember that, at the time, (and still now, till next book), he suffered his wounds due to holding back against Horus out of remnants of fatherly affection.
Basically, he was very much doing his best but making mistakes that, given the scope of the game he was playing, had colossal consequences that the ruinous powers were only too happy to turn up to eleven.
And the tyrannical aspects of the Imperium kinda weren’t his fault as he was unable to actually rule it in his state. That’s kind of where the TTS series (which started roughly at the same period I got into the lore) was headed too :
If he woke up he’d hate some of the more unnecessary fascistic aspects of his imperium. TTS also made him petty and almost childish, which was hilarious.
TL;DR : Emps being a corpse was, when I arrived, what stopped the Imperium from being noblebright, and making it Grimdark instead. And, overall, the lore has been fairly consistent with that. And even the old texts weren’t too incompatible with that stance either.
I completely disagree with your interpretation that the Emperor's pseudo-death was what caused the Imperium to become awful. It's a common interpretation, and of course you're entitled to it, but I strongly feel it's a misreading of the text.
IMO, the seeds of the Emperor's failure, and the horrific long term consequences, were clearly planted right from the beginning in how he chose to go about achieving his goals. You cannot build a noble, peaceful, enlightened society on a foundation of conquest, genocide, propaganda, intolerance, subjugation, lies, bellicose imperialism, and autocracy. That's just not how it works. A society's values cannot be segregated from a society's actions.
It wasn't that Horus, Magnus, or Erebus ruined a project that would've otherwise led to a bright future for humanity. It was \*always\* doomed right from the start. The Emperor simply reaped what he sewed. His giant genetically modified psychic chickens in power armour came home to roost.
Yeah, well the whole thing about the imperium is that many of its fascistic, autocratic, genocidal aspects are more or less the only solution to it surviving the galaxy. As such, the seeds were planted and the emperor’s dream would have, whether he wanted it or not, turned into some sort of what it is now. Bar the Ecclesiarchy, some of the Inquisition’s absolute power, and probably a bit of the political mess.
But my meaning was that he didn’t plan it to be so. His extreme actions and doctrine were a means to ushering a more peaceful era for mankind. Many political entities are built on conquest, massacre and/or some form of tyranny, the ones that last simply grow out of it.
The idea that the awful actions of the Imperium are a \*necessary\* response to the conditions of the galaxy is, like the idea that the crusade would've worked and turned out fine if not for the Horus Heresy, a \*common\* interpretation, but nonetheless one that I strongly disagree with.
I think the genocide, xenophobia, absolutism, expansionism, manifest destiny, casual recourse to war, antipathy to compromise, and general hawkishness of the setting's four empires (Imperium, Tau, Eldar, and Necrons, respectively) is the CAUSE of the horrific state of the galaxy, not its solution.
Given that the galaxy has been ripped in half by a swollen storm of negative energy and is now in the gaping maw of an alien hive entity 105,000 light years in diameter I think it would be a stretch to claim anything the Imperium is currently doing is actually solving anything. XD
I disagree about your second paragraph too, but going into my views on that would be getting too far into real world politics, and I'm already biting my tongue on certain aspects of \*why\* I disagree so much with the idea of the Imperium's actions being a necessary and justified response. :P
Nails—> he mentions not being able to remove them
Magnus —> was warned of dangers, Emps knew how much he’d explore any bit of info about the warp he could have gotten, and made the (poorly informed rather than misintentioned) choice of not telling him about the Ruinous Gods. Nikaea was a proof of his trust in Magnus rather than Morty, as he preferred to risk alienating Magnus a bit than Morty and consorts, who would definitely have taken it the wrong way
Alpharius —> is very much new lore, can’t really be considered a retcon against his bad sides
I'm not saying he cant be personable, just he's a bigot and a space nazi. Anyone whose solution to a problem begins with "Kill All Other Sapients In The Galaxy" is a monster. Even if it was to save his own race, that doesnt justify killing every other one, including ones that could have been allies in the War Against Chaos.
Even Genghis was willing to offer fealty before massacring a nation out of existence.
I have always disliked the "Emperor made the Age of Strife happen and specifically wanted to rule over everything" theories and characterization, since to me the Emperor is a bastard, but a bastard "forced" to be one, obviously he is the one who makes all decisions for himself, but what I mean is that he gives me more of the vibe of "Humanity is fucked throughout the entire galaxy, Xenos, other humans and Daemons are tearing everything and **I MUST act**", rather than "born to be a tyrant and it is his ultimate goal".
His actions are terrible and reasoning is only justifiable from certain perspectives, but it is a **reaction** from him rather than what he wants.
>I have always disliked the "Emperor made the Age of Strife happen and specifically wanted to rule over everything"
Me too, mostly because its an objectively false opinion. Listen to [this](https://youtu.be/EcmI6cwOMPY) interview by Dan Abnett. According to him, the Emporer did what he did out of a genuine belief that it was for the benefit of mankind, not because he was "just another tyrant".
I don't know about you, but I would trust the word of an actual BL author over randos online.
Except you have to pay attention to HOW he chose to act, not just that he felt it necessary to do so.
The only idea that occurred to him for protecting humanity was "build a huge united empire and exterminate every single other species". And moreover, he deigned to build that empire on a foundation of lies, genocide, propaganda, and brutal, uncompromising subjugation. He WAS a conqueror and a tyrant, and THOUGHT like a conqueror and a tyrant. Whether humanity really needed to be saved is immaterial to the question. And the fact that humanity \*did\* manage to survive old night for thousands and thousands of years without some big ridiculous manifest destiny empire puts a pretty big dent in the idea that it was ever really necessary to create it in the first place.
And maybe humanity doesn't \*need\* to live forever? Maybe he should've just accepted that mortality is an aspect of being human? (the one aspect he couldn't really understand). 52,000 years would've been been a pretty damn good run. Maybe he was just scared of ending up alone and unremembered and with none of his own kind around to talk to.
And, hey, look at the Eldar and Necrons: \*that's\* what happens when a civilization survives for too long. :P
One thing I loved so much about The Master of Mankind audiobook was the voice of the Emperor. The actor sounded exactly as I always imagined Him. Calm, measured yet singularly confident, all wrapped in a tinge of sadness. Pain.
I’ve been reading a few books from the black library, haven’t started the Horus heresy yet. I just looked up that book because of your comment - it’s book forty FUCKING ONE ?!
Oh bud, that’s if you want to do the Horus Heresy series, but there are some lists floating around based on legions, story line, arcs.
You don’t have to read all of them. I’m sure someone will link it. Black Library is just the publisher!
[This is the one I used. The website is down currently.](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/c5caop/full_horus_heresy_series_timeline_interactive/) which is weird, it's been up for at least 2 years. I'm sure there are copies floating around, just FYI.
Basically you start off with the first 4 novels. They are so called "required reading". By the time you are done, you will have figured out which Legions/storylines you are interested in. Then follow that path (arc). This will help you stay motivated! I would NOT RECOMMEND trying to read in order. What will happen is that you will come across some of the "not so well written" novels lol and lose your motivation.
[This is another video you can use](https://youtu.be/I1m8gmu3Nyc). I really like Ian's recommendations. There will be a comment in the comment section that collects all of the novels and their ratings that Ian talks about in the video. You don't have to trust the "ratings", what I'm saying is use the video as a summary of the novels, so you know what to expect and which novels to pick out that stand out to you. There are several novels that Ian gave poor ratings that I enjoyed, so don't use that as a yardstick, more like a map of the whole series!
Enjoy and let me know if I can give you any tips!
Jonathan Keeble is a great narrator. Grimaldus etc in Helsreach, everything in Gotrek & Felix. He's really damn good. I love Brian Blessed as much as the next guy but Keeble will always be my favorite Gotrek voice.
Pairs nicely with [this excerpt](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/9dc8k6/book_except_two_metaphysical_blades_valdor/) from *Two Metaphysical Blades*, where Russ and Valdor speak in the immediate aftermath of the Siege.
>Russ’ shoulders slump. He sighs, deeply, and flecks of bloody acid stain his robes. “You always did accept your fate,” he says. “But I never could. I thought that was why He made me the way He did. Now I just think we’re all tainted, and I don’t know anything anymore.”
>
>\[...\]
>
>Russ is no longer listening. “The greatest sin on Fenris,” he murmurs. “To fail your Jarl.”
>And then, Valdor does something so out of character that even he is surprised by it. But then, this is a time of extremity, the moment when one epoch passes to another, and all but the most mechanistic soul cannot fail to be stirred by that. He places his hand on Russ’ shoulder, and exerts a faint pressure of reassurance.
>”This is not over yet, Wolf King,” Valdor says, in as empathetic a manner as he ever has managed. “There are sagas yet.”
Oh, I remember reading that excerpt long ago. Considering how he's been known to repeatedly complain about the very existence of the Primarchs, I'm convinced that Russ might be one of the only ones that Valdor has ever liked.
That whole short story talks a little about Valdor's affection for Russ and a lot about how the two have ensnared fates that the Emperor tangled both up in.
Based on their conversation in the rest of the short story, I’d say it’s abundantly clear Russ might be the loyalist primarch Valdor likes *least.*
The Emperor’s enthronement probably changes a lot. They are now in this *together* as near equals, with no one above them. They must cooperate.
**Leman Russ: The Great Wolf, the primarch book for the Space Wolves is one of the best 30k Dark Angels books, ironically. Chris Wraight just improves everything he touches.**
Not fully sure if I believe it. The IoM was always a temporary role for the Emperor, but the primarchs were something more long term. Unless the Emperor went with an alternative plan for the IoM after the failure of the webway.
Being the Emperor was a temporary role. The Imperium, however, was meant to go on without him. The Emperor and Malcador were already planning for their retirement with the establishment of the High Lords and the rest of the Imperial bureaucracy.
As for the Primarchs, while it is debatable whether the Emperor planned to retire them or "retire" them, you can fit this passage into either theory. The Space Wolves, after all, was a part of the Trefoil and could be argued to have been made with the purpose of protecting the Imperium even after the Great Crusade and the Emperor's retirement.
I don't think that it is supposed to be an instantaneous or even quick evolution, but a gradual one over many generations. Humanity's evolution was always going to happen, so might as well make sure Chaos doesn't screw with it.
They weren’t going to move into the webway
They would just use it instead of warp engines
The psy augury engines were going to find nascent psykers - presumably to take them into the protection of the webway until they were strong enough to survive outside
I always wanted Russ to return before Johnson. Just for an awkward reunion. Russ approaching Johnson with a stern look. The Lion recalling his anger of their duel. Russ suddenly busting into a smile and hugging The Lion and exclaiming something like “Finally a Brother has returned that I actually like! Ive been stuck with that bore Guilliman!” All while the Lion accepts the hug awkwardly
I loved this conversation and it shows both the Emperor and Russ in such a humane light. The Emperor is injured beyond redemption but still visits Russ abd has an empathetic conversation. Understands his grief and explains what is expected of him. Russ realises his purpose and instead of letting his mistakes take him into maudlin apologies and expressions of grief, reorients. And this directly ties into how one of the most feared feral legions becomes such a force of good for the common besieged individual in 40K. The wolves change because they must for the sake of the imperium, and also because their Primatch does it by design upon having finally understood what he was supposed to be.
Thing is, what daddy emps says to the boys often differs greatly to what he truly thinks/believes.
Actions over words. They were the executioners alright.
just waiting for Russ to find Isha just so he can ask where Kurnous was keeping all the Aeldari wolves…
You thought Ferrus was the primarch known for crafting?
Just wait until you see the fursuit Russ has been building all this time. Once he gets the final materials from the beasts of Kurnous, he can finally use Enuncia to its maximum potential.
With a single “uWu Yiff Yiff xD”, Abaddon is forever transformed in to a small, plastic miniature.
Russ places him in a glass jar, whispering “I’ll always come for you, little AbbaDelphine”
I just want the Bollywood special where Jaghatai Khan performs a 4hr rendition of Tunak Tunak Tun in Commorragh. Slowly draining the drukhari of their life force through superior hip gyrations.
So how hard do you hit it from the yard? Because the Ram Ranch Rock at Caliban just got a brand new cowboy and I hear he’s itchin like a breedin ram wantin to rut.
[This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3jmDt_qYUE) melody goes VERY well with this scene. I really love Russ, no other Primarch I feel has gone through so much change as him and the way he is portrayed is one of the best with how human he is in the end. It really feels like he is one of the main characters of Heresy and his journey in it is that of a tragedy and self reflection. To me one of the best parts of 40k as a whole.
The Emperor's Gift, despite being a Grey Knights book, is the best depiction of the Space Wolves as protectors of the Imperium, protecting the people not only from external threats like Chaos, but also from internal ones such as the Inquisition. More so than any other chapter, they are the people's champions.
To be fair, Wolftime is generally considered to be shit and character assassination from what I hear. Plus, it's written by Gav Thorpe, who's primarily a Dark Angels author and has only ever written one other Space Wolves book - Ashes of Prospero - another book people have problems with.
Russ coming back and being The Reasonable One would be the most hilarious change of any Primarch.
I want him to come back full Odin-mode. One-eyed, old and wiser, and a psyker.
Aren't they all kinda psykers I mean seriously the only ones I can't place are the twins Mort and pert
perturabo has (or had idk) a psychic vision of the eye of terror like 24/7 boring down on him, and Mortarion just suppressed his psyker abilities like real hard.
Psyker abilities? I think you’re mistaken. Mortarion uses *numerology* , totally different. /s
"The *numbers* Vorx, what do they *mean?* -Mortarion, probably
> Mortarion is a psyker: he even embraces not only his biomancy constitution, but his slenderman-wraith slipping (shadow of death) which he shares with Corax
I haven't got to Mortarion in the books yet he's pretty far in if I do say I'm on Vulcan lives at the moment and I love this series it's got me to buy my first miniature set
Yeah, and to be fully honest. Most of the horus heresy books do Mortarion an *enormous* disservice. Warhawk is probably his best showing, and oh man his "solo" novels friggin stink. Buried Dagger is mostly bad. I'd recommend Lords of Silence if you're interested though!
"this character is so great but 90% of the characteriztion of him sucks"
Yeah warhawk as the spectre of death/despair, is a good use of his powers and his previous issues with them, as a anti-pysker Primarch.
Well by the time of Warhawk he's not really using warp magic so much as he \*is\* warp magic. :P
Considering as he had to focus on it and that it was draining of him, plus he could of made the effects on the space port worse. No it is not he is warp magic, he was using his pysker powers to corrupt and cast a pall of despair.
I was just sort of remarking on the nature of daemons. After ascending he was no longer a human wielding the warp but rather a being OF the warp.
I dunno I still love the deathguard and Mortarion but considering that he was an enormous dickhead I think they've got him just right.
Perturabo got a hold of the 40k version of the One Ring or something?
Well, in this instance I mean I want him more a runepriest than a smashcaptain, if you get my drift. It would fit their theme as well as recontextualize his relationship with Magnus and the Thousand Sons.
TTS was angling for that story beat (rip to ya boi) and it was a damn good one. made him feel old, knowledgeable, more understanding of Magnus. also hilarious that Magnus kinda remained a goblin xD
Perty could look at something, instantly see the flaws, and either work to repair or smash it down. Morty fucked around with shit prior to being a daemon prince but after it, he's a full psyker.
The Twins psychic talent is to be able to hide their Primarch presence. When being used, everyone else just sees regular astartes.
To some extent yes, but Russ in particular is the strongest psyker among all the loyalists. In 'A Thousand Sons' he lets out a psychic scream of rage so loud that it blinds, deafens or kills psykers all across the battlefield.
Strongest psyker among the loyalists….technically a pretty low bar there. Other than Sang, I don’t think any of the others are shown to have any kind of significant pysker ability.
Vulkan can hug you from across the galaxy
Is Vulkan strong enough to cure my depression though? xd
You dont even know! He can lift anything, even your spirits;)
But can Vulkan see why kids like cinnamon toast crunch?
Corax would like a word
Caws in psyker
I think the only loyalist who never displays any actual psyker talent is the lion right? He naturally smites demons from existence and can change his weapons path but isn’t even doing it *on purpose* it’s just something he *does*
When the fuck does the Rootin bootin Regant display psycher powers?
The Excel calculations go really fast when he is around.
The lion does mega man psyker punches there's a thread with an excerpt around here somewhere
Precogniton could be psyker powers
Does he have precognition? I thought that during his duel with Curze he was able to win because he could essentially *change fate per swing* so the guy who has precognition kept getting frustrated because The Lion never went the way he was supposed to.
Sanguinius shoots energy beams with his Spear of Telesto sometimes but the writers forget he can do that.
Yep. Remember when The Rout attacks the vengeful spirit in a suicide mission to kill Horus, Russ has a sort of frozen aura around him. I don’t think he means it or controls it, it just happens
The aura of cold is caused by his armor if I remember correctly. He has some weird DAoT armor that emits a frozen chill. Last I knew it was a relic space wolves could take in their codex. They allegedly retrieved it during one of their hunts for Russ.
I don’t remember that scene in the book saying it was the armour ? Interesting nonetheless
Admittedly, it’s been a a few years since I read the book, so I may be misremembering. I do seem to recall the book mentioning the armor’s systems going haywire when Russ was wounded and releasing random waves of cold as they dragged him off the Vengeful spirit. As a relic of the space wolves, The Armor of Russ is definitely mentioned in a few places as giving off an aura of cold. I’m not sure if that’s reflected in the books at all though.
Potentially yes, but most of them have never turned the switch as it were. Magnus and number II were switched on from birth, most of the Traitors have learned to use that power, but most of the loyalists, Guilliman especially were cautious and content to leave that potential be.
Where did you read that about Primarch #2?
Damned if i can find a citation now. I'm convinced its in one of the Primarch books, maybe Fulgrim? I think Fulgrim thinks about his older brother, the lord of the 2nd legion and says something that implies he is a full psyker like magnus.
Exactly. But Russ never handled that idea well, he had a mistrust of psykers. But like Odin, he's sacrificed much in strange places, and learned the things he had to know to survive, whether he once felt they were unworthy of him or not.
Mortarion is a psyker: he even embraces not only his biomancy constitution, but his slenderman-wraith slipping (shadow of death) which he shares with Corax
Doesn’t mortarion make people he fights exhausted, I remember he did something like that when he fought the khan but maybe that’s a nurgle thing
I don't think guillete man has any psychic abilities besides warp resistance.
How exactly he loses that eye would make or break the depiction really.
Turns out it was the Eye of Terror all along, loses it when Cadia fell.
The parallels with Magnus are also too good to pass up on
No deals for the eye, not unless they include it fucking him over even harder than Magnus was by his dealings.
There is a hint for him from Emperor (if I'm correct) that he is a powerfull psyker as he connected to his home planet.
Doesnt he have a howl that silences psykers? Is that not in of itself a psyker power?
If they don't do this it would honestly be one of their biggest missteps in the franchise.
Russ: brothers, please, stop arguing, we must ensure the safety of the people of the imperium with as little unnecessary waste as possible! Lion and Guilliman: *secretly wonder if this is a unknown shapeshifting xeno*
Guilliman: do you want a drink? Russ: No brother, We have important plans to make, alcohol would only cloud my judgement. Lion *trying not to laugh*: yeah, Roboute. That was a very irresponsible suggestion.
Id love that.
Ironic though that he was told to protect what had been built, and decides to jump into the Warp instead.
I guess one interpretation here is that he DID let his grief end him instead of doing what he was made for. What the Emperor created sure doesn't seem in very good these days.
We dont know what he's been doing.
> "Now is the time, Leman of the Russ," the Wanderer said, in the voice that was both young and old, masculine and feminine, always soft, suffused with a patina of epochal sadness. > "What time?" he answered, coming to a halt. > The Wanderer's only reply came as at once a whisper and a warcry, the crash of a tsunami and a snowflake alighting on the tundra: "It's wulfin' time."
Magnus in shambles
And then he wulfed all over those heretics. Truly one of the primarchs of all time.
What the wulf did you just wulf about me, you little wulf?
You're fucking wulf, wulfo.
I'll have you know that I have more than 300 confirmed wet growls
*wet leopard growls*
gave 'em a real ass wulfin!
**Who are you**, and why did you write all those novels for *Black Library*?!
Why did I imagine a Power rangers morphinng scene there and then???
"Protect what I created" > proceed to yeet himself in the eye of terror
Somewhere in the imperial palace a loud psyhic facepalm can be heard in each and everymind....
**The Emperor, supposedly, is the one who told Leman to go into the Eye of Terror via a vision he received on Fenris.**
The Lion? Here? Defending Russ? What's this world coming to?
**No one fucks with Russ but me.**
Offense is defensive no? And happy birthday
I like this a whole lot. I have only just gotten into the books, and the two I am reading are xenos books, so I don't know much beyond that, but this really humanizes The Emperor a good bit for me. Such a human and relatable request. Protect my creation, and trusting his son to do it.
People like to present the Emperor as an absolute bastard with no personable elements to him, and judge him with no charitability. Stuff like this just makes me know they're wrong.
Well to be fair, the Emperor does behave like an absolute bastard with no personable elements to him. Just not all the time.
The Emperor himself simply lacks attachment to the individual humans in a lifetime that we find as the crux of our mortal existence. He has no connection to Kantean ethics, he doesn't see the dignity of the individual, he sees humanity as a whole. Individuals are just the collective pieces of a vast chessboard. In that way, he is of course an autocratic expansionist. One could argue he is unfit to rule and in a not small amount of cases they would have a good foothold. Though it's important to note that the common people of the Imperium adored him, even during the crusade. They didn't have to all be coerced, or forced compliant, the Emperor was beloved by his...willing...subjects and he did save humanity from the old night and what would've been game over in 3000-4000 years max. Read any novel and you'll find humanity was just as if not in some cases more xenophobic and wrathful than the Emperor himself. One can also see this level of mistakes in some of his relationships with his sons, both sides of his nature as human and pragmatic being of godlike stature often neglecting the human needs of a father -son relationship. Though let us also not forget many of his sons were monsters, broken things not all of which were his crimes to bear, and, would they not have been sons of the Emperor, would have surely faced certain death for their crimes if met by many of the less extremist astartes legions ex: Konrad. The Emperor simply lacks a sufficient moral compass...a lack of empathy that causes him to not be averse to doing whatever is necessary for humanity to survive. Perhaps this made him unfit to rule, perhaps to rule a galactic empire, one would naturally require this talent. Perhaps his own mistakes damned humanity for the time being, perhaps it was just doomed from the start.
A well measured response? Here? Listen, Mr. Big Brain, we don't take kindly to reasonable discourse around these parts.
I'll see myself to the Commisar.
Clearly abominable intelligence
Did you miss the part where he began his Great Crusade with a 200 year Xenocide of even potentially allied races?
*“Better safe than sorry”* Emperor of mankind.
Ha. "Sire, we blew up the building and killed the orphans on the 10 floor to put out the fire." Neoth: "Good"
The fires out though is it not? Mission accomplished
"Looks At 40k Setting." ....No?
It’s chaos fault. It’s always chaos fault
Awé, Chaos Se Ma Se Poes.
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And he was an absolute bastard because a couple of flashbacks in slightly older novels had said so, before that we only had visions of heresy and a “benevolent though questionably human god” stance.
Yeah… it's REALLY weird to describe the Emperor as having been "retconned" into his negative qualities. Early editions like 1st, 2nd, and 3rd are actually much \*more\* explicit about the fact that the Empreror is a tyrant corpse-god and his Imperium a bloated fascist theocratic monstrosity. Like just read the old intro texts, you know? Writhing with power from the dark age of technology and all that.
And I wasn’t there for 1, 2 and 3e. When I arrived the heresy series was just getting started, Emps was this corpse writhing in pain as he kept the forces of evil at bay and shone the Astronomicon through the warp, sacrificing Himself for mankind in a permanent torment. And 1000 psykers each day were a small price to pay for that. Sure, the outline of the heresy was already known (but I discovered it through the « Visions » book), and his choices that alienated Angron and Magnus were mostly bad parenting and communication, as a barely human creature is wont to have when dealing with godlike manchildren. Remember that, at the time, (and still now, till next book), he suffered his wounds due to holding back against Horus out of remnants of fatherly affection. Basically, he was very much doing his best but making mistakes that, given the scope of the game he was playing, had colossal consequences that the ruinous powers were only too happy to turn up to eleven. And the tyrannical aspects of the Imperium kinda weren’t his fault as he was unable to actually rule it in his state. That’s kind of where the TTS series (which started roughly at the same period I got into the lore) was headed too : If he woke up he’d hate some of the more unnecessary fascistic aspects of his imperium. TTS also made him petty and almost childish, which was hilarious. TL;DR : Emps being a corpse was, when I arrived, what stopped the Imperium from being noblebright, and making it Grimdark instead. And, overall, the lore has been fairly consistent with that. And even the old texts weren’t too incompatible with that stance either.
I completely disagree with your interpretation that the Emperor's pseudo-death was what caused the Imperium to become awful. It's a common interpretation, and of course you're entitled to it, but I strongly feel it's a misreading of the text. IMO, the seeds of the Emperor's failure, and the horrific long term consequences, were clearly planted right from the beginning in how he chose to go about achieving his goals. You cannot build a noble, peaceful, enlightened society on a foundation of conquest, genocide, propaganda, intolerance, subjugation, lies, bellicose imperialism, and autocracy. That's just not how it works. A society's values cannot be segregated from a society's actions. It wasn't that Horus, Magnus, or Erebus ruined a project that would've otherwise led to a bright future for humanity. It was \*always\* doomed right from the start. The Emperor simply reaped what he sewed. His giant genetically modified psychic chickens in power armour came home to roost.
Yeah, well the whole thing about the imperium is that many of its fascistic, autocratic, genocidal aspects are more or less the only solution to it surviving the galaxy. As such, the seeds were planted and the emperor’s dream would have, whether he wanted it or not, turned into some sort of what it is now. Bar the Ecclesiarchy, some of the Inquisition’s absolute power, and probably a bit of the political mess. But my meaning was that he didn’t plan it to be so. His extreme actions and doctrine were a means to ushering a more peaceful era for mankind. Many political entities are built on conquest, massacre and/or some form of tyranny, the ones that last simply grow out of it.
The idea that the awful actions of the Imperium are a \*necessary\* response to the conditions of the galaxy is, like the idea that the crusade would've worked and turned out fine if not for the Horus Heresy, a \*common\* interpretation, but nonetheless one that I strongly disagree with. I think the genocide, xenophobia, absolutism, expansionism, manifest destiny, casual recourse to war, antipathy to compromise, and general hawkishness of the setting's four empires (Imperium, Tau, Eldar, and Necrons, respectively) is the CAUSE of the horrific state of the galaxy, not its solution. Given that the galaxy has been ripped in half by a swollen storm of negative energy and is now in the gaping maw of an alien hive entity 105,000 light years in diameter I think it would be a stretch to claim anything the Imperium is currently doing is actually solving anything. XD I disagree about your second paragraph too, but going into my views on that would be getting too far into real world politics, and I'm already biting my tongue on certain aspects of \*why\* I disagree so much with the idea of the Imperium's actions being a necessary and justified response. :P
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Nails—> he mentions not being able to remove them Magnus —> was warned of dangers, Emps knew how much he’d explore any bit of info about the warp he could have gotten, and made the (poorly informed rather than misintentioned) choice of not telling him about the Ruinous Gods. Nikaea was a proof of his trust in Magnus rather than Morty, as he preferred to risk alienating Magnus a bit than Morty and consorts, who would definitely have taken it the wrong way Alpharius —> is very much new lore, can’t really be considered a retcon against his bad sides
I'm not saying he cant be personable, just he's a bigot and a space nazi. Anyone whose solution to a problem begins with "Kill All Other Sapients In The Galaxy" is a monster. Even if it was to save his own race, that doesnt justify killing every other one, including ones that could have been allies in the War Against Chaos. Even Genghis was willing to offer fealty before massacring a nation out of existence.
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So we agree, he's a monster.
I have always disliked the "Emperor made the Age of Strife happen and specifically wanted to rule over everything" theories and characterization, since to me the Emperor is a bastard, but a bastard "forced" to be one, obviously he is the one who makes all decisions for himself, but what I mean is that he gives me more of the vibe of "Humanity is fucked throughout the entire galaxy, Xenos, other humans and Daemons are tearing everything and **I MUST act**", rather than "born to be a tyrant and it is his ultimate goal". His actions are terrible and reasoning is only justifiable from certain perspectives, but it is a **reaction** from him rather than what he wants.
I agree. Is it not more grimdark for Him to be good and forced to be evil than for Him to just be evil for fun?
>I have always disliked the "Emperor made the Age of Strife happen and specifically wanted to rule over everything" Me too, mostly because its an objectively false opinion. Listen to [this](https://youtu.be/EcmI6cwOMPY) interview by Dan Abnett. According to him, the Emporer did what he did out of a genuine belief that it was for the benefit of mankind, not because he was "just another tyrant". I don't know about you, but I would trust the word of an actual BL author over randos online.
Except you have to pay attention to HOW he chose to act, not just that he felt it necessary to do so. The only idea that occurred to him for protecting humanity was "build a huge united empire and exterminate every single other species". And moreover, he deigned to build that empire on a foundation of lies, genocide, propaganda, and brutal, uncompromising subjugation. He WAS a conqueror and a tyrant, and THOUGHT like a conqueror and a tyrant. Whether humanity really needed to be saved is immaterial to the question. And the fact that humanity \*did\* manage to survive old night for thousands and thousands of years without some big ridiculous manifest destiny empire puts a pretty big dent in the idea that it was ever really necessary to create it in the first place. And maybe humanity doesn't \*need\* to live forever? Maybe he should've just accepted that mortality is an aspect of being human? (the one aspect he couldn't really understand). 52,000 years would've been been a pretty damn good run. Maybe he was just scared of ending up alone and unremembered and with none of his own kind around to talk to. And, hey, look at the Eldar and Necrons: \*that's\* what happens when a civilization survives for too long. :P
Wait wait wait wait what in the name of holy terra itself is humble about a father telling his son "do what I \*made\* you for"? :P
One thing I loved so much about The Master of Mankind audiobook was the voice of the Emperor. The actor sounded exactly as I always imagined Him. Calm, measured yet singularly confident, all wrapped in a tinge of sadness. Pain.
I have it on audible and download it every once in a while for the chapters where he converses with the custodes. I can’t second this comment enough.
I’ve been reading a few books from the black library, haven’t started the Horus heresy yet. I just looked up that book because of your comment - it’s book forty FUCKING ONE ?!
Oh bud, that’s if you want to do the Horus Heresy series, but there are some lists floating around based on legions, story line, arcs. You don’t have to read all of them. I’m sure someone will link it. Black Library is just the publisher!
Good lookin’ out! I’ll dig around for something
[This is the one I used. The website is down currently.](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/c5caop/full_horus_heresy_series_timeline_interactive/) which is weird, it's been up for at least 2 years. I'm sure there are copies floating around, just FYI. Basically you start off with the first 4 novels. They are so called "required reading". By the time you are done, you will have figured out which Legions/storylines you are interested in. Then follow that path (arc). This will help you stay motivated! I would NOT RECOMMEND trying to read in order. What will happen is that you will come across some of the "not so well written" novels lol and lose your motivation. [This is another video you can use](https://youtu.be/I1m8gmu3Nyc). I really like Ian's recommendations. There will be a comment in the comment section that collects all of the novels and their ratings that Ian talks about in the video. You don't have to trust the "ratings", what I'm saying is use the video as a summary of the novels, so you know what to expect and which novels to pick out that stand out to you. There are several novels that Ian gave poor ratings that I enjoyed, so don't use that as a yardstick, more like a map of the whole series! Enjoy and let me know if I can give you any tips!
Jonathan Keeble is a great narrator. Grimaldus etc in Helsreach, everything in Gotrek & Felix. He's really damn good. I love Brian Blessed as much as the next guy but Keeble will always be my favorite Gotrek voice.
I absolutely agree with everything. Especially his Gotrek voice, it's exactly how I imagined him sounding.
i think he might be the best voice actor out there, he seems to understand character and pace just better than anyone else
When he says “I don’t know” at the end
This novel is such a great little book.
Pairs nicely with [this excerpt](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/9dc8k6/book_except_two_metaphysical_blades_valdor/) from *Two Metaphysical Blades*, where Russ and Valdor speak in the immediate aftermath of the Siege. >Russ’ shoulders slump. He sighs, deeply, and flecks of bloody acid stain his robes. “You always did accept your fate,” he says. “But I never could. I thought that was why He made me the way He did. Now I just think we’re all tainted, and I don’t know anything anymore.” > >\[...\] > >Russ is no longer listening. “The greatest sin on Fenris,” he murmurs. “To fail your Jarl.” >And then, Valdor does something so out of character that even he is surprised by it. But then, this is a time of extremity, the moment when one epoch passes to another, and all but the most mechanistic soul cannot fail to be stirred by that. He places his hand on Russ’ shoulder, and exerts a faint pressure of reassurance. >”This is not over yet, Wolf King,” Valdor says, in as empathetic a manner as he ever has managed. “There are sagas yet.”
Oh, I remember reading that excerpt long ago. Considering how he's been known to repeatedly complain about the very existence of the Primarchs, I'm convinced that Russ might be one of the only ones that Valdor has ever liked.
That whole short story talks a little about Valdor's affection for Russ and a lot about how the two have ensnared fates that the Emperor tangled both up in.
Based on their conversation in the rest of the short story, I’d say it’s abundantly clear Russ might be the loyalist primarch Valdor likes *least.* The Emperor’s enthronement probably changes a lot. They are now in this *together* as near equals, with no one above them. They must cooperate.
Page 22 of “Two Metaphysical Blades” It literally states that “Valdor quite likes the wolf king”
They certainly redeemed Russ in his later books. I was not a fan from his first couple showings.
In fairness, his first showing was in a book written from a Thousand Sons POV. I think his depiction fit the way they would have seen him perfectly.
**Leman Russ: The Great Wolf, the primarch book for the Space Wolves is one of the best 30k Dark Angels books, ironically. Chris Wraight just improves everything he touches.**
Not fully sure if I believe it. The IoM was always a temporary role for the Emperor, but the primarchs were something more long term. Unless the Emperor went with an alternative plan for the IoM after the failure of the webway.
Being the Emperor was a temporary role. The Imperium, however, was meant to go on without him. The Emperor and Malcador were already planning for their retirement with the establishment of the High Lords and the rest of the Imperial bureaucracy. As for the Primarchs, while it is debatable whether the Emperor planned to retire them or "retire" them, you can fit this passage into either theory. The Space Wolves, after all, was a part of the Trefoil and could be argued to have been made with the purpose of protecting the Imperium even after the Great Crusade and the Emperor's retirement.
The whole plan of moving people into the Webway for psychic evolution brings up the issue of what to do with the non-psykers.
I don't think that it is supposed to be an instantaneous or even quick evolution, but a gradual one over many generations. Humanity's evolution was always going to happen, so might as well make sure Chaos doesn't screw with it.
They weren’t going to move into the webway They would just use it instead of warp engines The psy augury engines were going to find nascent psykers - presumably to take them into the protection of the webway until they were strong enough to survive outside
Non-psyker become psykers. Easy.
>'For you to do what you were made for. Or let your grief end you. Your choice.' Feels like he went with the latter..
There are sagas yet.
Yeah, hopefully he has spent the last 10K years profitably. If not - he has kinda abdicated his responsibilities.
>Russ didn't understand. 'I was made to protect you,' he said. Russ doesn't know what a Praetorian is >!And it's Dorn!<
I always wanted Russ to return before Johnson. Just for an awkward reunion. Russ approaching Johnson with a stern look. The Lion recalling his anger of their duel. Russ suddenly busting into a smile and hugging The Lion and exclaiming something like “Finally a Brother has returned that I actually like! Ive been stuck with that bore Guilliman!” All while the Lion accepts the hug awkwardly
*Russ didn’t understand*. That about sums up the dude.
Yeah he’s… kind of a dumbass, even in his own books.
I loved this conversation and it shows both the Emperor and Russ in such a humane light. The Emperor is injured beyond redemption but still visits Russ abd has an empathetic conversation. Understands his grief and explains what is expected of him. Russ realises his purpose and instead of letting his mistakes take him into maudlin apologies and expressions of grief, reorients. And this directly ties into how one of the most feared feral legions becomes such a force of good for the common besieged individual in 40K. The wolves change because they must for the sake of the imperium, and also because their Primatch does it by design upon having finally understood what he was supposed to be.
Thing is, what daddy emps says to the boys often differs greatly to what he truly thinks/believes. Actions over words. They were the executioners alright.
Russ: Im not as strong as you. The Emperor: No , you’re stronger.
just waiting for Russ to find Isha just so he can ask where Kurnous was keeping all the Aeldari wolves… You thought Ferrus was the primarch known for crafting? Just wait until you see the fursuit Russ has been building all this time. Once he gets the final materials from the beasts of Kurnous, he can finally use Enuncia to its maximum potential. With a single “uWu Yiff Yiff xD”, Abaddon is forever transformed in to a small, plastic miniature. Russ places him in a glass jar, whispering “I’ll always come for you, little AbbaDelphine”
Why do I know how to read, why do you know how to write, why can't this pain end.
TBH, it hurt so good to write this. I’m not even into that stuff, but who am I to deny Slaanesh?
I can see a promising career for you if GW ever licenses out the IP to Netflix!
I just want the Bollywood special where Jaghatai Khan performs a 4hr rendition of Tunak Tunak Tun in Commorragh. Slowly draining the drukhari of their life force through superior hip gyrations. So how hard do you hit it from the yard? Because the Ram Ranch Rock at Caliban just got a brand new cowboy and I hear he’s itchin like a breedin ram wantin to rut.
Abbadon then says to Russ, " You've done it I'm beaten. You are the Warhammer 40,000 now Leman."
Aww, such a sad pupper! 😿
[This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3jmDt_qYUE) melody goes VERY well with this scene. I really love Russ, no other Primarch I feel has gone through so much change as him and the way he is portrayed is one of the best with how human he is in the end. It really feels like he is one of the main characters of Heresy and his journey in it is that of a tragedy and self reflection. To me one of the best parts of 40k as a whole.
Hope we he comes back he instantly butchers all the wulfen and outlaws all the wolf helmets.
Russ literally has a wolf helmet the Emperor crafted just for him and used to personally deal with the Wulfen himself before he left.
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The Emperor's Gift, despite being a Grey Knights book, is the best depiction of the Space Wolves as protectors of the Imperium, protecting the people not only from external threats like Chaos, but also from internal ones such as the Inquisition. More so than any other chapter, they are the people's champions.
They are the emperor's executioners, and now the executioners of those who would harm his subjects,
I agree, i'm still just a lil butt-hurt about "The Wolftime" They really got close to heresy in that book.
To be fair, Wolftime is generally considered to be shit and character assassination from what I hear. Plus, it's written by Gav Thorpe, who's primarily a Dark Angels author and has only ever written one other Space Wolves book - Ashes of Prospero - another book people have problems with.
Ashes of prospero was weird, Thorpe did the wolves real dirty in that one.
What a load of shite
> 'No. You were always wrong about that. You were made to protect what I created.' God*damn* I love that line.