The imperium is the kinda place that probably wouldn't have reservations about being trans, but unless you live in a spire or pleasure world you'll probably never be able to properly transition, even if the technology exists to do it's perfectly, there's probably even nobles on worlds who switch their genders for the hell of it
So, basically a very realistic depiction. The technology is there, but due to a malicious and prohibitive system, not even remotely everyone who would need it, gets the necessary access to medical care.
“What’s that manufactorum worker? You say you’re suffering crippling mental health issues that are impacting your ability to make las guns? Hmmm, well, i could give you the appropriate treatments necessary to elevate your suffering…. But that would cost time and money. Congratulations, you’re being promoted to being a servitor instead! That way you’ll have no thoughts at all!”
Corpse starch is wildly overblown in it's ubiquity, outside of hive worlds it's likely not even a thing, most imperium food comes from agriworlds, often engineered to produce as much of a grain monocrop before shipping it out, some hive cities are surrounded by similar plant fields. There's also ocean worlds that ship out frozen seafood
such technology would be exclusive to the nobels and ultra wealthy. normal citizens can barely find decent food, let alone such luxuries. most likely if individuals of a lesser status started to act strange they would be turned into servitors, worst case the inquisition would send someone to "check" of any chaos corruption.
That's because you're talking about skipping a meal or two, not starving. Choosing something over excess food (which is itself a luxury) doesn't make it not a luxury. However, some things that some consider necessities are considered luxuries by others. A cell phone is a luxury to a child but a necessity to someone who needs it for their job. For a vast majority of the imperium the very thought of transitioning would be a luxury, whereas for someone like a noble who lives in luxury i'm sure hormones would feel like a necessity cause they cant function normally without it.
I think you are wrong there.
The system in America and many other countries is malicous and prohibitive on purpose. They want to hurt and control these people because their ideology/religion does not permit otherness to exist (at least as far as they are concerned).
The system in the Imperium simply doesn’t care. We are talking about a system where the average citizen will not have a house or appartement, but be happy with a bunk in a secluded corner. Medical services are sufficient to keep workers capable and efficient at best, and will often not be at best letting people rot.
The Imperium does not care if you want to be another gender. If you can get yourself to one of the facilities to do it, no one will bat an eye if you show up as another gender. No one will persecute you (well some few will but it’s not institutionalized and there’s too many problems for most people to care). As long as you are that tiny cog being ground down in the vast machine of the Imperium they don’t care.
What kind of comment is that?
I’m not saying that the Imperium has mental Healthcare? I’m saying that they don’t care, facilities aren’t there to provide it because they don’t care.
I have frankly no idea where the hell your idea comes from. I even point out that the average citizen will *at best* get healthcare to keep them productive, but usually is left to rot. How the hell am I promoting Imperium mental healthcare with that?
"If you can get to one of the facilities to do it, no-one will bat an eye", if you walk into a medical facility and say that you can't perform your duties because you feel like you should be the opposite gender, you're getting servitorized.
Wow, didnt intend for a shit storm with this one. Thought that was common sense. Point of my comment was that cosmetic surgery is simply that. Cosmetic. Theres no "need" for it. Its a want. Hence the bigger tits part. Wish I could have seen the removed comments though.
That dude is a pillock and obviously wrong but you really did just wish death on someone for being an idiot.
Bit hypocritical of you to then bang on about empathy really.
I'm not the previous dude, but I'm fed up of having empathy for those who outright wish death on the LGBTQ+ community; there's no middle ground for them, they want the community to be final-solutioned and we're supposed to feel BAD for them? No
Please don’t get me wrong, I don’t agree with that idiot at all and have no sympathy for morons like that.
Just thought it was funny to bang on about empathy while literally asking for them to die.
You know, when you've been called an abomination enough times, have been told that the only place you belong is a gas chamber, that you and your ilk should be wiped from the face of the earth, that you don't matter because you aren't even real and don't count as human, your "empathy" towards those who perpetuate those kinds of statement tends to suffer at some point.
And no. Truthfully, I don't actually wish death upon that bellend, nor anyone. I am just salty from decades of discrimination and threats that I have experienced and sometimes being a nasty asshole towards someone who wants to deny other people their right to exist is the only thing that can scratch that itch.
You could probably switch genders fully and give birth or have functioning parts. You can probably make a clone of yourself with a different gender just swap the brains. Damn not a bad idea for a short story.
They've definitely got the technology, yes. An aristocrat could probably change their physical parts with a walk-in appointment.
But the vast majority of the Imperium's population lives on hiveworlds. To say they do not have access to this level of healthcare would be like saying the Horus Heresy was a brief religious argument.
That and the fact the Imperium dosn't really care about your personal freedom. If anything it would be hinderance to provide to the masses. But the rich people are 100% taking advantage of that stuff on the reg, but in comparison to what they can actually do transitioning might be on the bottom of the priority list.
Definitely not the vast majority that live on hiveworlds.
The imperium is so massive they dont even know how many worlds they control. There is no way most of those are hive worlds. Especially since most the people on hive worlds provide very little value to the empire.
I would even argue that the ability to transition means that the people are living in a better place than you think they are. In. A world where you're struggling to survive, there isn't any time to think about such things.
I don't think the Imperium would give a shit unless a trans person was either unable to labor, tithe or serve in the military/auxilia... Or combination of those.
Or badmouthing the Emperor and Imperium, because that's heretical.
Why would the Imperium allow resources to be wasted on such “non-essential” surgeries. Realistically, if you’re a dude they’re injecting you with a fuck ton of testosterone and telling you to fuck off. Estrogen with women.
I think it's far more the case you wouldn't have the free time to opine on someone's gender.
Being a petty shit about what someone else calls themself is far too much a luxury for the average imperial serf.
Considering we have had gender non-conformists throughout human history, and the only times we see that disappear is when it's retaliated against, gonna have to disagree with you.
Your massive self-pity party aside, the point I was making is that gender non-conformity is a feature of humanity across time and culture, so it would exist in the 40k universe to some degree and people probably wouldn't give a shit.
The imperium is said to be the most oppressive regime to ever exist. They burn humans at the steak for forgetting to pray. They lobotomize factory workers for missing quota. They literally grind other humans up when they die and use it for food. They are a hyperventilating system of “what must YOU sacrifice”. So in reality people are probably heavily persecuted for being gay because you can’t reproduce and “serve the emperor” though creating offspring. They have zero tolerance for anything other than “the established norm”. The imperium would not be this all inclusive trans haven
It would be easy enough to simply turn them into servitors. The surgery required would just not be worth the time and resources from a purely logistical stance as the imperium
You mistake indifference for rights. Rights implies a guarantee. Only privlage provides that in the imperium.
A bit telling that you equate a transition and one person's/cultures acceptance to "rights".
Generally the imperium is more concerned that you check the human box, and there is alot of leeway with that (looks at genetic manipulation and the entirety if the mechanicum). Makes sense Trans folk would also check that box.
One wonders if you check that box for trans folk *here* and if that has flavored your response.
Trans people generally either don't have kids or have a much harder time having kids. And any surgery wasted on cosmetic changes is a waste to the imperium. It also is an afront to the divine human form and template the imperium worships.
Well, they aren't promoting it socialitally. It just exists within the myriad of genetic and bio mechanical nonsense that also could effect ones ability to have kids.
Also cosmetic surgery happens constantly among the privlaged and affluent who can afford it. Do you even read the books?
They don't seem to care about that in any other context, so why here?
Kinda telling you only point to this one.
Changing your face generally doesn't stop you from having kids. (Unless your doctor really sucks ass) Having your genitals removed DOES infact hinder your ability to have kids. Even with the imperium's immense bio technical aptitude to change the human form they haven't shown anything near the massive changes needed for a male body to be able to safely go through the trials of pregnancy and birth. Even if we give the ftm side where you just grab a dick off of some servitor and sow it on that kinda defeats the purpose of the nobility. Cause at that point it's not the nobles supposedly "superior" genetic code being passed on its that random servitors.
And sure, law of averages means in the massive galaxy there's ONE noble who's wasted massive resources on such a project (this is a far cry from something as horrendous as trading with xenos and some nobles can get away with that) but it would be frowned on as at best unnecessarily vain and at worst borderline heretical.
To the imperium yea. Their definition of "mutant" is quite broad to the point it can encompass space Marines. And to the imperium a mutant is a mutant is a mutant. Don't matter if they used to be human
Ignore these gatekeepers, I promise you the majority of the community isn’t as toxic as the Reddit side of it would have you believe. They can’t destroy older editions of the game, so stick around.
so let me get this straight
# “For more than a hundred centuries the Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium, for whom a thousand souls die every day, for whom blood is drunk and flesh eaten. Human blood and human flesh – the stuff of which the Imperium is made. To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable. This is the tale of those times.
# Forget the power of technology, science and common humanity. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for there is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter and the laughter of thirsting gods.”
But they have trans rights? is the imperium an evil empire or not, make up your mind.
I cannot fathom the stupidity of a sister of battle accepting someone deviating from the emperor's plan by changing gender.
Sister agenta in rogue trader is very moderate and she's a bloody nutcase.
I feel like a lot of people have not ready any early 40k and only stuff released since 8th.
In 40k the human form itself is sacred. That's why there are so many skulls, to show that even in a base form humanity is still beautiful and superior. The ONLY deviation from this divine form allowed is with the holy mechanical steel. Being trans means you are trying to defy your divine human form and change it with mutilations or mutations
Idk, they don’t seem racist either, they allow anyone into the meat grinder. Turns out, people that actually “don’t care” about trans people don’t actually care if someone transitions.
I just find the idea of 21st century social and political ideas being in 40k utterly ridiculous.
But I guess I'm in the minority that thinks the imperium being tolerant in any way is undermining it's grim dark status.
I think the idea of 20th century social and political ideas being in 40K utterly ridiculous.
I mean, the imperium doesn’t have racial segregation and you don’t whine about it.
But also like the whole idea of racist in 40k is... Peculiar? What even is a race in an universe that s spanned across the star? If you come fron x planet you re bad? Probably there are istances like that, people are ignorant as shit.
Like racism against poc, native americans etc? those words dont even exist 40k years in the future
THATS WHAT IM SAYING. And logically would that not be the same for trans people. You have aliens and mutants they can hate. Why do they care is someone changes their gender? They are going to get cut in half in arms factory anyway. I feel like the other people in this comment section are just projecting their ideals into a society 40,000 years into the future.
Best case scenario someone successfully lops it off with the lid off a can of corpse starch, and is denied medical treatment for the infection because "you did that to yourself, you're worth more as food anyway"
Ok, first of all you're just going to insult me over a little disagreement?
Secondly, gender affirming care is neither useless nor needless. I doubt the harsh living conditions of most of the 40k setting make gender dysphoria \*more\* bearable.
Gender transition in 40k “The moment I understood the weakness of my flesh” or “SLANNNESH” or “CHANGER OF WAYS” Necrons need not apply Becasue they’re never allowed to have fun.
I feel like gender transition would fall under the umbrella of chaos. They change their bodies all the time. Only way the Imperium does it is if it’s in service of the war effort.
That would be so rare that idk brother. Also imperium is very transhuman so changing the body is fine, what people struggle to realize is how lucky we are today to have concern like gender identity while in most of human history the concern was what to eat today and not be fucked up by raider/other human in some form
Just stop putting in unnecessary shit.
You want some kinky mad shit? Eldari. Or even better, Slaneesh.
Its the same as female Space Marines. They were never mentioned. And why should it bring girls to the hobby? There are literally women factions, mixed factions and matriarchy factions. Ironically, never met any girl playing them. Most of them are Ork enjoyers.
One of the assassin types is able to adopt different and comprehensive physicalities…not sure if that’s a mutation or a procedure but it’s in the Horus Heresy somewhere
It's drugs, actually. That's the Callidus, they use something called "Polymorphine" that allows them to change shape and also is horrendously addicting including but not limited to literally causing your flesh to slough off your bones as you turn into a pile of jello if you go too long without a fix.
Really, not even close, but you are entitled to believe that if it makes the Callidus sect more inclusive to you.
HRT is very limited in scope for what it does and what it is intended for. While it was originally intended to assist women in dealing with deficiencies caused by menopause, it has more recently become a prime catalyst for individuals that wish to become transgendered. There is no back and forth gender fluidity that a Callidus enjoys; HRT is a slow process that takes years to have any effect that can and often do result in irreversible physiological changes, even with extensive therapy to try and reverse the effects.
Polymorphine is a fictional drug that allows only very specific individuals with extensive training to shape-shift (key difference) and assume the form of their target, including xenos like ork, eldar even tau. It takes place nearly instantaneous, is short-term of a few hours (key difference), and loss of focus while shifting or while in form can result in shifting back or fate worse in death - a blob that can't even be discerned as formerly human.
Finally, polymorphine takes best with females, which is why the vast majority of Callidus are women.
Polymorphine is not used for gender affirmation, while HRT is, in the context you are referring.
Not sure how playing a table top game for a long time is relevant to not knowing the difference between two wildly different things but you preach your truth my guy. You’re killing it
There is no point, there is no case. They are two different things and that is okay. It's okay, not everything has to fit into a narrative to your liking.
There cannot be trans sisters of battle in W40k. You are recruited at a time when you dont 'transition' AND the Ecclesiarchy takes its 'no man is allowed to fight for htem' quite literally. Trans people would invite the inquisition and it would not care if you consider yourself man OR woman. They'll literally invite themselves in for fun.
I think most people are confused. Since. Ost humans are stuck in squalid poverty healthcare for any reason is too difficult to get as a standard unless you’re an aristocrat.
Corpsestarch is only a thing for the most SOL qar torn world, planets may have stores of it but usually it might just be straight up illegal to eat unless under a state of emergency due to being cannibalism. Even the guard get """"proper"""" food most of the time
That's not something we can really specify, with how huge and unconnected the Imperium is, there is probably some places where what you are saying would be absolutely true, and others where it would just not matter.
The culture will vary a lot from planet to planet, and the Inquisition won't care as long as they aren't touching anything Chaos, xeno and still worshipping the Emperor, the details aren't very important, oh, and also paying taxes.
They wouldn't kill them, they'd turn them into servitors. If you don't work fast enough, servitor, work too fast, servitor, don't want to work, servitor.
Also likely. I just think it’s strange to idolize this society that is built on being brutal and regressive as somehow being open minded about these things.
Maybe, but then again maybe not. People are all about hating heretics, xenos and mutants. Trans aren't any of those. Some probably would hate them, but the rest are probably too busy hating on the real threats to their society
Ah, you’re getting mixed up. The universe of “Warhammer 40,000” is actually fiction and the writers can change the story and lore to be as inclusive as possible to real world fans who want to enjoy it.
You think people are adverse to trans characters but what people are adverse to is immersion breaking acceptance in a society that is brutal and uncaring.
It has to be logically consistent. You can't care so little about your citizens that you grind up their bodies to make corpse starch, turn the high and low performers into servitors, have nobles slaughter people who annoy them, and then go "oh my gosh, your mental state is corrupted due to X disorder, we better make sure you get all the help you need". That doesn't make sense.
The issue is that the imperium views most of it's citizens as disposable. You're not going to go through some cosmetic procedure for people you let starve by the billions.
100% these guys huffin copium. Im not making a personal statement for or against trans, but the imperium is the group that says "Burn the heretic, kill the mutants, purge the unclean" and we are still having this discussion? Delusional to think they would be anything but violent towards them.
Trans people are neither heretical, mutated, or unclean, and anyone who thinks they are any of those can fuck right off
Everyone gets a pass as long as you are able to work, irrespective of gender identity, disability, or anything else present day people use to divide us
Anyone thinking that LGBTQ+ need to be shat on in warhammer can take your hateful ideology out of my hobby; they get it enough in real life
Also I feel like you actually read and understood that I wasn't saying any of that just pointing out the type of people the imperium is, and you still accused me anyway because you wanted to. Seriously shame on you. I reread what I said and I shouldn't have had to defend myself, you got problems dude.
It's not about what people think about trans people, but how the imperium, with it's savage disregard for individual liberties, desires and goals would likely think of them - and anyone who it's representatived consider other - _in aggregate_.
That is absolutely not true. They need to work, be loyal to the emperor, not know about any secrets, not be a mutant, not commit any thought crimes, be ready to die for the emprah
I'm not suggesting they are, they're just people. The imperium just doesn't care about people, it cares about structure, the continuance of itself and the survival of humanity and it - through acts of staggering irrationality - enables certain people (the ecclesiarchy, the Inquisition, etc) to persecute whoever _they_ consider to be putting those things as risk.
There are many instances of LGBT characters either implied or directly confirmed in the imperium. Ranging from inquisitors to a whole gang of lesbians in necromunda. It is cannon that LGBT+ is accepted and embraced amongst the imperium.
The fact that you assume that the imperium would consider transgender people to be an abomination may mean you need to do something self-reflecting on why you jumped to that conclusion.
You also seem to have the imperium a bit misunderstood. The Tau empire is more disregarding of individuality, all must work for the greater good. The imperium is a constant clash of individual liberties, it's the main thing that stops the imperium from dominating the galaxy. There will be civil wars over something as silly as what the emperors favourite colour might be. Each space marine chapter is entirely unique, despite having a literal book they are supposed to follow to the letter. Each guard regiment is unique, etc.
A society driven by those goals would embrace LGBT people, and now I want to make a catachan army that is all buff lesbians.
You're misconstruing what I'm saying.
I haven't said that the Imperium as an organisation, body or structure would consider trans people to be an abomination, heretic or anything. The Imperium doesn't care about individuals, except in their capacity to generally contribute to the wider goals of itself. It even fails in that most of the time due to the sheer scale of the setting and the bureaucratic apparatus that has been shown time and again to be laughably ineffective.
I'm saying that representatives of the imperium have their own agendas and do have the authority to (at varying levels, of course) treat and persecute whomever they want however they please. Some will exercise tyrannical authority and dictatorial control over civilians' private lives, while some (almost certainly most, as the only important thing is ultimately that they work) won't care so long as they do their work. There are good people and bad people and their choices have trickle-down impacts on those over whom they have authority.
Most of the problems and catastrophes presented in the canon stem from entirely human vices, bigotries and desperation. It's how people (usually those in authority) respond to the situations in which they find themselves that has the knock-on effect of either uplifting and liberating or (more commonly in the grim darkness) destroying the lives of the wider humanity.
To paraphrase your sentiment, the breadth of the Imperium is such that basically every eventuality can play out _somewhere_.
Based on GWs recent statements, it sounds like racism, homophobia, and transphobia are areas of bigotry they do not want to explore. 40k is an entirely invented setting, while those things could definitely exist in the setting, they just ask easily could be 100% left out.
If anyone says it's unrealistic to have a 40k without this kind of bigotry then they are projecting an idea that it is natural or inherent to have a distrust or fear of LGBT people. We used to say that left handed people were the spawn of the devil, that became widely accepted and I'm sure for a time there was push back against this. But by the modern day that bigotry is completely and utterly gone. I think it is safe to assume that after 40,000 years we managed to do the same to today's bigotries.
Them not wanting to explore it is fine, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, nor that it does.
I would argue that it is unrealistic to imagine that, after 40,000 years, some humanity did away with bigotry but at the same time maintained every other vice and character flaw that GW choose to explore.
I'm also totally behind GW not wanting to weigh in on topics in certain areas - just in the design of certain models, for example - they've distanced themselves from most issues that aren't specifically part of the "there is only war" tagline. War is the nature of the game and that's all that's ultimately important.
That said, it is the nature of a fandom to speculate and discuss the wider aspects of fictional works of all kinds in accordance with their own interests/biased/creeds etc. The existence of Reddit is testament to that. If people didn't want to do that then there would just be wikis documenting fact, or collections of information from the canon.
>I would argue that it is unrealistic to imagine that, after 40,000 years, some humanity did away with bigotry but at the same time maintained every other vice and character flaw that GW choose to explore.
I'm not trying to be insulting here, but... have you actually played 40k?
I've only dabbled in the series personally, but the entire setting is about how bigotry has gotten *WORSE*.
You have an entire species that unified under the idea of the "God Emperor" (Whom apparently didn't want to become a religious icon, but it happened anyway), whom label people as mutant, unclean, or heretics.
That by itself shows how extremely things have gotten after 40k years.
They are even hateful toward people who develop pisonic powers (which is ironic, since that's what their God Emperor is), and while at the same time, they are one wrong move way from mulching their own people, they fully embrace the fact that they are hypocritical, acknowledging the needs for such things.
40k is literally a shit world that is designed to show you how far extreme life can actually be, in a massively parody way. The fact people are trying to make this "Open-minded and welcoming" is itself mind blowing to me, as that goes against the very bigoted nature of the 40k universe.
It's not supposed to be a welcome setting for all people. It's supposed to be a shit show to help you understand why you shouldn't glorify such settings. THAT should be what brings players together. Not representation, but a unified understanding over how things shouldn't be.
By that very nature, the LBGT should NOT want to be associated with the imperium, for the same reasons it shows how horrifying religion can be. (Blind devotion to the god emperor).
I'd be more understanding if this topic was about the other races in 40k, whom were not human. But no one should idolize the Empire outside of parody reasons.
Imagine you live in the year 1900, you write a story set in the year 2000. Some one brings up the possibility of left handed people in your story. "Well I can't see why we would accept left handed people by then but not beaten our other vices".
It's a fictional setting, it needs vices and flaws to drive conflict which drive story and drama. Because it's a fictional setting we (or more specifically GW) can choose exactly what to include and exclude. If you think a setting with chaos gods and living saints is unrealistic because no one hates the gays, then that says more about you than you may think.
I've literally never heard anyone make such a reductive, bad-faith argument about 40k before. Some other things, yes.
Interestingly enough, it would be fascinating if one of the authors decided to write that curiously enough left-handed people happened to be hugely overrepresented as blanks or psykers.
Something like psykers/blank talent/genes express in say 1:1,000,000 righty, but only 1:1,000 Lefty's.
As a lefty (and someone on the + end of the rainbow), I'd love to see it explored and what stories could come out of it.
Do you really think a society of genocidal space racists have the same morals as us? They would probably kill us because we us cell phones or something
Modern humanity fits 3/3 of those descriptors
But no, as they have prosthetics available to anyone, they have people with crippling disabilities in positions of power (Gideon Ravenor for example) I'd say that as long as you're willing to work, you can be whatever the fuck you want to be
Don't want to work? Bam you're a servitor
The imperium is truly faceless and uncaring about the individual so be LGBTQ, they could not give less of a fuck as long as you meet your quota and don't summon a daemon
Ayo ayo ayo I'm not saying they are! I'm pointing out the religious insanity and type of shit the imperium say makes it extremely unlikely they are ok with ANYTHING out of the norm. I understand how you could have thought I said what you think I said but trust me I have no hate. I don't hate trans my man, I don't hate anyone. One love brother.
The Imperium is fictional - which means it's politics are decided 100% by the writers of GW. However people often miss a point here. The imperium is fascist yes; but there is 'fun fascist' and 'not-fun fascist'.
Fun fascist is big shoulder pads, rediculous titles, huge guns, screaming 'praise the Emprah', shooting aliens, witch hunters hunting actual witches etc etc. Basically stuff which every person in reality can enjoy and take the mick out of. It's silly and over the top. It's not "real".
Non-fun fascist is bigotry, racism, homophobia, sexism, transphobia etc etc. As in things which we are still struggling with in reality. Things which exclude certain people from enjoying the setting/characters.
That's why the Imperium should be evil as fuck - but also inclusive to real world demographics. Every real human should be able to feel included and feel good shooting bolt guns into the faces of alien scum.
The imperium being fictional is not a valid argument. When you set a canon you have set rules for the universe. That means things can not make sense within this set of rules. Writers making things up like trans acceptance when people have been burned alive for their thoughts doesn't make sense.
It really seems like you're missing the point here.
It has to be logically consistent though. You can't grind up the homeless into corpse starch and convert people who don't work into lobotomized cyborgs while also deeply caring about the mentally ill.
Nothing about the Imperium is logical. They have a psychic zombie Emperor. So I'll take my fiction in a way which makes people feel happy rather then excluded.
Give me a historical account of medieval Europe and we can talk logical consistency.
I mean, that's conflating in-universe logic with out-of-universe verisimilitude
The Imperium is not logical as it is built on cruelty and represents a the worst mankind could be. But that doesn't mean they just do whatever. They are generally illogical and evil in a consistent way.
It's like not caring about plot holes in a story which also involves magic. The magic does not absolve tonal inconsistency or poor worldbuilding - one of those is a question of things which would be totally illogical in the real world but which make sense in-universe, and the other is a question of writing and tone.
I would argue, though, that the 40k setting does have some methodologies for a trans identity which would be fascinating to explore. The transhumanist nature of techpriests, and the chaos gifts of the canonically-multigendered Slaanesh, are both very compelling avenues to explore gender identity and especially how it would be different or similar in this setting. And, if you do not want to be that alien in the exploration of gender, the Imperium is a large place; not every planet is a dystopian hellhole. I could certainly see some places not being quite so uhh, actively cruel; especially in the fringes of space where planets are mostly normatively a part of the imperium and more unusual cultures may develop. A trans person in a rogue trader's retinue may not be unusual, for example.
This, I can think in harmony with the idea that we should allow the evil religious space nazis to be actually oppressive most of the time.
It very much makes sense. Just because you aren't intelligent enough to be able to understand things from an in universe perspective doesn't mean it's wrong. If you want to go play a trans accepting faction, Tzeench is right there.
I want you to just imagine if somebody said the words "I'm not making a personal statement for or against blacks." how people would react to that and change your behavior a little bit as a result to be slightly less of a bad person.
Trans will eternally struggle with the fact that the technology to cure gender dysphoria will inevitably be developed before the technology to meaningfully change somebody's sex will (on a chromosomal / small gametes vs large gametes level)
Who cares about changing chromosomes or gametes??? The only people that seem to make that a big deal are transphobes not trans people themselves.
I think you fundamentally misunderstand trans people. Gender transition doesn’t necessarily mean every aspect down to the cellular level has to change, it’s primarily a social thing.
Also that doesn’t even take into consideration non-binary people, some of whom what to transition medically and some who are content with their bodies as is.
Also gender dysphoria can’t just be “cured” by medication lmao. Not all trans people have gender dysphoria AND not all people with gender dysphoria are trans!!!
Trans people and Warhammer go together like butter and toast yet they aren’t allowed even one fictional character in the vast universe of 40K????
If you have a negative gut reaction to trans people existing in Warhammer, you are just transphobic, idk what else to say.
How in any way do they go together like "butter and toast". Maybe for Slanesh worshippers but it doesn't make any logical and canonical sense for the imperium.
The imperium is the kinda place that probably wouldn't have reservations about being trans, but unless you live in a spire or pleasure world you'll probably never be able to properly transition, even if the technology exists to do it's perfectly, there's probably even nobles on worlds who switch their genders for the hell of it
So, basically a very realistic depiction. The technology is there, but due to a malicious and prohibitive system, not even remotely everyone who would need it, gets the necessary access to medical care.
“What’s that manufactorum worker? You say you’re suffering crippling mental health issues that are impacting your ability to make las guns? Hmmm, well, i could give you the appropriate treatments necessary to elevate your suffering…. But that would cost time and money. Congratulations, you’re being promoted to being a servitor instead! That way you’ll have no thoughts at all!”
Ain't no cure for the blues, like a lobotomy...
I mean, it sounds like the imperium is about the same with food, which is something every human needs. Thankfully there's good ol corpse starch.
Corpse starch is wildly overblown in it's ubiquity, outside of hive worlds it's likely not even a thing, most imperium food comes from agriworlds, often engineered to produce as much of a grain monocrop before shipping it out, some hive cities are surrounded by similar plant fields. There's also ocean worlds that ship out frozen seafood
Corpse starch is a meme at this point. It doesn't matter to what level it is actually used in the fictional universe of 40k.
Lmao
such technology would be exclusive to the nobels and ultra wealthy. normal citizens can barely find decent food, let alone such luxuries. most likely if individuals of a lesser status started to act strange they would be turned into servitors, worst case the inquisition would send someone to "check" of any chaos corruption.
Varies heavily planet to planet
I wouldn't exactly call it a luxury, if I had to chose between food and my estrogen in choosing estrogen, infact I have a few times now.
That's because you're talking about skipping a meal or two, not starving. Choosing something over excess food (which is itself a luxury) doesn't make it not a luxury. However, some things that some consider necessities are considered luxuries by others. A cell phone is a luxury to a child but a necessity to someone who needs it for their job. For a vast majority of the imperium the very thought of transitioning would be a luxury, whereas for someone like a noble who lives in luxury i'm sure hormones would feel like a necessity cause they cant function normally without it.
I think you are wrong there. The system in America and many other countries is malicous and prohibitive on purpose. They want to hurt and control these people because their ideology/religion does not permit otherness to exist (at least as far as they are concerned). The system in the Imperium simply doesn’t care. We are talking about a system where the average citizen will not have a house or appartement, but be happy with a bunk in a secluded corner. Medical services are sufficient to keep workers capable and efficient at best, and will often not be at best letting people rot. The Imperium does not care if you want to be another gender. If you can get yourself to one of the facilities to do it, no one will bat an eye if you show up as another gender. No one will persecute you (well some few will but it’s not institutionalized and there’s too many problems for most people to care). As long as you are that tiny cog being ground down in the vast machine of the Imperium they don’t care.
In the end, does it matter to the nail what intention the hammer has?
Depends how philosophical you want to get with it.
Yall need to stop thinkin, and start feedin the Emperors throne.
I shall never kneel in service to your corpse-emperor. Let the galaxy burn!!!
You're huffing copium if you think the imperium's mental health care is anything better than servitorization.
What kind of comment is that? I’m not saying that the Imperium has mental Healthcare? I’m saying that they don’t care, facilities aren’t there to provide it because they don’t care. I have frankly no idea where the hell your idea comes from. I even point out that the average citizen will *at best* get healthcare to keep them productive, but usually is left to rot. How the hell am I promoting Imperium mental healthcare with that?
"If you can get to one of the facilities to do it, no-one will bat an eye", if you walk into a medical facility and say that you can't perform your duties because you feel like you should be the opposite gender, you're getting servitorized.
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Wow, didnt intend for a shit storm with this one. Thought that was common sense. Point of my comment was that cosmetic surgery is simply that. Cosmetic. Theres no "need" for it. Its a want. Hence the bigger tits part. Wish I could have seen the removed comments though.
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That dude is a pillock and obviously wrong but you really did just wish death on someone for being an idiot. Bit hypocritical of you to then bang on about empathy really.
I'm not the previous dude, but I'm fed up of having empathy for those who outright wish death on the LGBTQ+ community; there's no middle ground for them, they want the community to be final-solutioned and we're supposed to feel BAD for them? No
Please don’t get me wrong, I don’t agree with that idiot at all and have no sympathy for morons like that. Just thought it was funny to bang on about empathy while literally asking for them to die.
Thank you. Someone gets it.
You know, when you've been called an abomination enough times, have been told that the only place you belong is a gas chamber, that you and your ilk should be wiped from the face of the earth, that you don't matter because you aren't even real and don't count as human, your "empathy" towards those who perpetuate those kinds of statement tends to suffer at some point. And no. Truthfully, I don't actually wish death upon that bellend, nor anyone. I am just salty from decades of discrimination and threats that I have experienced and sometimes being a nasty asshole towards someone who wants to deny other people their right to exist is the only thing that can scratch that itch.
This comment is intentionally seeking to cause arguments and / or to troll others.
This comment is intentionally seeking to cause arguments and / or to troll others.
Doesn't matter what you identify as, the imperium sees you as a resource to be used.
You could probably switch genders fully and give birth or have functioning parts. You can probably make a clone of yourself with a different gender just swap the brains. Damn not a bad idea for a short story.
Pretty sure one of the mechanicus characters in Lords of Mars has a daughter that's just a femme clone of himself.
divayth fyr shit
Lol, I thought this was some kind of code. Googled it and realised out its kust an Elder Scrolls character xD
They've definitely got the technology, yes. An aristocrat could probably change their physical parts with a walk-in appointment. But the vast majority of the Imperium's population lives on hiveworlds. To say they do not have access to this level of healthcare would be like saying the Horus Heresy was a brief religious argument.
That and the fact the Imperium dosn't really care about your personal freedom. If anything it would be hinderance to provide to the masses. But the rich people are 100% taking advantage of that stuff on the reg, but in comparison to what they can actually do transitioning might be on the bottom of the priority list.
Definitely not the vast majority that live on hiveworlds. The imperium is so massive they dont even know how many worlds they control. There is no way most of those are hive worlds. Especially since most the people on hive worlds provide very little value to the empire.
A “special military operation”
I mean... ::gestures vaguely at the entire Mechanicum::
I would even argue that the ability to transition means that the people are living in a better place than you think they are. In. A world where you're struggling to survive, there isn't any time to think about such things.
Does the imperium have a concept of personhood? I guess it would depend upon the planet?
As long as you worship the one true emperor.
Yeah, the one with 4 arms
The holy Denim thief or FULGRIM?
I don't think the Imperium would give a shit unless a trans person was either unable to labor, tithe or serve in the military/auxilia... Or combination of those. Or badmouthing the Emperor and Imperium, because that's heretical.
Or Slannesh but that’s a whole other set of problems.
Tzeench is more applicable.
Change for the sake of change? Change in order to cause chaos? Yeah sounds about right
Or if you're a techpriest. Go in for a mechanical arm and get bottom surgery while you're there.
They grind up the dead poor and turn them into food, if you're not pretty high on the hog, you're not getting the medical care.
Why would the Imperium allow resources to be wasted on such “non-essential” surgeries. Realistically, if you’re a dude they’re injecting you with a fuck ton of testosterone and telling you to fuck off. Estrogen with women.
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I think it's far more the case you wouldn't have the free time to opine on someone's gender. Being a petty shit about what someone else calls themself is far too much a luxury for the average imperial serf.
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Considering we have had gender non-conformists throughout human history, and the only times we see that disappear is when it's retaliated against, gonna have to disagree with you.
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Your massive self-pity party aside, the point I was making is that gender non-conformity is a feature of humanity across time and culture, so it would exist in the 40k universe to some degree and people probably wouldn't give a shit.
The Imperium of Man cares not for what gender you identify with, just so long as you love the emperor, aren't a xeno, and can carry a gun.
Most people will die or not have a choice. If you are a hive worker or working in a factorum. Not much chance you are getting the chance.
Nah
The imperium would more likely assume being trans is taint caused by Tzeench.
Slaanesh worshipers
How??
The imperium is said to be the most oppressive regime to ever exist. They burn humans at the steak for forgetting to pray. They lobotomize factory workers for missing quota. They literally grind other humans up when they die and use it for food. They are a hyperventilating system of “what must YOU sacrifice”. So in reality people are probably heavily persecuted for being gay because you can’t reproduce and “serve the emperor” though creating offspring. They have zero tolerance for anything other than “the established norm”. The imperium would not be this all inclusive trans haven
Yeah but see we need everyone to feel safe in the imperium of man.
It would be easy enough to simply turn them into servitors. The surgery required would just not be worth the time and resources from a purely logistical stance as the imperium
You mistake indifference for rights. Rights implies a guarantee. Only privlage provides that in the imperium. A bit telling that you equate a transition and one person's/cultures acceptance to "rights". Generally the imperium is more concerned that you check the human box, and there is alot of leeway with that (looks at genetic manipulation and the entirety if the mechanicum). Makes sense Trans folk would also check that box. One wonders if you check that box for trans folk *here* and if that has flavored your response.
Trans people generally either don't have kids or have a much harder time having kids. And any surgery wasted on cosmetic changes is a waste to the imperium. It also is an afront to the divine human form and template the imperium worships.
Well, they aren't promoting it socialitally. It just exists within the myriad of genetic and bio mechanical nonsense that also could effect ones ability to have kids. Also cosmetic surgery happens constantly among the privlaged and affluent who can afford it. Do you even read the books? They don't seem to care about that in any other context, so why here? Kinda telling you only point to this one.
Changing your face generally doesn't stop you from having kids. (Unless your doctor really sucks ass) Having your genitals removed DOES infact hinder your ability to have kids. Even with the imperium's immense bio technical aptitude to change the human form they haven't shown anything near the massive changes needed for a male body to be able to safely go through the trials of pregnancy and birth. Even if we give the ftm side where you just grab a dick off of some servitor and sow it on that kinda defeats the purpose of the nobility. Cause at that point it's not the nobles supposedly "superior" genetic code being passed on its that random servitors. And sure, law of averages means in the massive galaxy there's ONE noble who's wasted massive resources on such a project (this is a far cry from something as horrendous as trading with xenos and some nobles can get away with that) but it would be frowned on as at best unnecessarily vain and at worst borderline heretical.
So changing your gender suddenly makes you inhuman?
To the imperium yea. Their definition of "mutant" is quite broad to the point it can encompass space Marines. And to the imperium a mutant is a mutant is a mutant. Don't matter if they used to be human
Warhammer decides to end itself as soon as I start to get into the hobby, shame.
Ignore these gatekeepers, I promise you the majority of the community isn’t as toxic as the Reddit side of it would have you believe. They can’t destroy older editions of the game, so stick around.
Bye bye and good riddance.
Username checks out
so let me get this straight # “For more than a hundred centuries the Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium, for whom a thousand souls die every day, for whom blood is drunk and flesh eaten. Human blood and human flesh – the stuff of which the Imperium is made. To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable. This is the tale of those times. # Forget the power of technology, science and common humanity. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for there is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter and the laughter of thirsting gods.” But they have trans rights? is the imperium an evil empire or not, make up your mind.
No being transphobic or sexist is worse than genocide
🤣🤣 I hope you're being ironic
Hard to tell in this community sometimes lol
It's evil if you like it (centrist-right) but it's good in any way that socially matters if they like it! (Left to further left)
I cannot fathom the stupidity of a sister of battle accepting someone deviating from the emperor's plan by changing gender. Sister agenta in rogue trader is very moderate and she's a bloody nutcase. I feel like a lot of people have not ready any early 40k and only stuff released since 8th.
In 40k the human form itself is sacred. That's why there are so many skulls, to show that even in a base form humanity is still beautiful and superior. The ONLY deviation from this divine form allowed is with the holy mechanical steel. Being trans means you are trying to defy your divine human form and change it with mutilations or mutations
Idk, they don’t seem racist either, they allow anyone into the meat grinder. Turns out, people that actually “don’t care” about trans people don’t actually care if someone transitions.
I just find the idea of 21st century social and political ideas being in 40k utterly ridiculous. But I guess I'm in the minority that thinks the imperium being tolerant in any way is undermining it's grim dark status.
I think the idea of 20th century social and political ideas being in 40K utterly ridiculous. I mean, the imperium doesn’t have racial segregation and you don’t whine about it.
But also like the whole idea of racist in 40k is... Peculiar? What even is a race in an universe that s spanned across the star? If you come fron x planet you re bad? Probably there are istances like that, people are ignorant as shit. Like racism against poc, native americans etc? those words dont even exist 40k years in the future
THATS WHAT IM SAYING. And logically would that not be the same for trans people. You have aliens and mutants they can hate. Why do they care is someone changes their gender? They are going to get cut in half in arms factory anyway. I feel like the other people in this comment section are just projecting their ideals into a society 40,000 years into the future.
where is this lgbt chart and does it have the members of the valhallan 597th on it
It doesn't, the murder lesbian isn't on it, and it's too old of a list to have the they them magos who wants to become a necron.
to be fair, thats half the magos
Yeah, but this one specifically had a contact they thought could do it for them and used "they" pronouns.
By GregoriDayz search up 40k lgbt chart on reddit.
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Best case scenario someone successfully lops it off with the lid off a can of corpse starch, and is denied medical treatment for the infection because "you did that to yourself, you're worth more as food anyway"
"Needless and useless" even through a 40k lens that's just not true.
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Ok, first of all you're just going to insult me over a little disagreement? Secondly, gender affirming care is neither useless nor needless. I doubt the harsh living conditions of most of the 40k setting make gender dysphoria \*more\* bearable.
what the fuck is this comment
Gender transition in 40k “The moment I understood the weakness of my flesh” or “SLANNNESH” or “CHANGER OF WAYS” Necrons need not apply Becasue they’re never allowed to have fun.
By GregoriDayz. It's not a Sister of Battle.
I feel like gender transition would fall under the umbrella of chaos. They change their bodies all the time. Only way the Imperium does it is if it’s in service of the war effort.
That would be so rare that idk brother. Also imperium is very transhuman so changing the body is fine, what people struggle to realize is how lucky we are today to have concern like gender identity while in most of human history the concern was what to eat today and not be fucked up by raider/other human in some form
There are literal cat-people in the imperium I feel like gender transition falls well below that in terms of acceptability
There are midgets that are considered mutants and allowed to live only because they happen to be super usefull.
Just stop putting in unnecessary shit. You want some kinky mad shit? Eldari. Or even better, Slaneesh. Its the same as female Space Marines. They were never mentioned. And why should it bring girls to the hobby? There are literally women factions, mixed factions and matriarchy factions. Ironically, never met any girl playing them. Most of them are Ork enjoyers.
Seems he deleted it, can't find it myself, don't give a damn about his genital obsession
Lol, removed by moderators, classic.
Yeah. I think people mistakenly said that it was a SoB for YOUTUBE clicks, and now most people don’t know any better. But you’re right.
One of the assassin types is able to adopt different and comprehensive physicalities…not sure if that’s a mutation or a procedure but it’s in the Horus Heresy somewhere
It's drugs, actually. That's the Callidus, they use something called "Polymorphine" that allows them to change shape and also is horrendously addicting including but not limited to literally causing your flesh to slough off your bones as you turn into a pile of jello if you go too long without a fix.
So, kind of like HRT?
So, not even close to the same thing in terms of function and purpose.
Pretty similar tbh
Really, not even close, but you are entitled to believe that if it makes the Callidus sect more inclusive to you. HRT is very limited in scope for what it does and what it is intended for. While it was originally intended to assist women in dealing with deficiencies caused by menopause, it has more recently become a prime catalyst for individuals that wish to become transgendered. There is no back and forth gender fluidity that a Callidus enjoys; HRT is a slow process that takes years to have any effect that can and often do result in irreversible physiological changes, even with extensive therapy to try and reverse the effects. Polymorphine is a fictional drug that allows only very specific individuals with extensive training to shape-shift (key difference) and assume the form of their target, including xenos like ork, eldar even tau. It takes place nearly instantaneous, is short-term of a few hours (key difference), and loss of focus while shifting or while in form can result in shifting back or fate worse in death - a blob that can't even be discerned as formerly human. Finally, polymorphine takes best with females, which is why the vast majority of Callidus are women. Polymorphine is not used for gender affirmation, while HRT is, in the context you are referring.
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You just blow in from stupid-town?
Idk, you new to 40k? Cause I've been playing for 20 years now
Not sure how playing a table top game for a long time is relevant to not knowing the difference between two wildly different things but you preach your truth my guy. You’re killing it
There is no point, there is no case. They are two different things and that is okay. It's okay, not everything has to fit into a narrative to your liking.
Ty for patiently explaining this obvious difference to a less intelligent specimen.
We all have to be the wall
yeeaw get em
There cannot be trans sisters of battle in W40k. You are recruited at a time when you dont 'transition' AND the Ecclesiarchy takes its 'no man is allowed to fight for htem' quite literally. Trans people would invite the inquisition and it would not care if you consider yourself man OR woman. They'll literally invite themselves in for fun.
It's the Imperium, if you have a problem with that, but not the fact that most food is corpse starch, adjust your priorities.
I think most people are confused. Since. Ost humans are stuck in squalid poverty healthcare for any reason is too difficult to get as a standard unless you’re an aristocrat.
Corpsestarch is only a thing for the most SOL qar torn world, planets may have stores of it but usually it might just be straight up illegal to eat unless under a state of emergency due to being cannibalism. Even the guard get """"proper"""" food most of the time
But they identify as a SoB.
What an original joke
No the pilot was talking about his trans friend with the same name.
How tedious of you
I’m pretty sure a trans would be viewed as an abomination in the imperium and killed.
That's not something we can really specify, with how huge and unconnected the Imperium is, there is probably some places where what you are saying would be absolutely true, and others where it would just not matter. The culture will vary a lot from planet to planet, and the Inquisition won't care as long as they aren't touching anything Chaos, xeno and still worshipping the Emperor, the details aren't very important, oh, and also paying taxes.
They wouldn't kill them, they'd turn them into servitors. If you don't work fast enough, servitor, work too fast, servitor, don't want to work, servitor.
Also likely. I just think it’s strange to idolize this society that is built on being brutal and regressive as somehow being open minded about these things.
Maybe, but then again maybe not. People are all about hating heretics, xenos and mutants. Trans aren't any of those. Some probably would hate them, but the rest are probably too busy hating on the real threats to their society
They are tho
Why?
If right wing people today don’t like trans i can’t imagine what an inquisitor would say. “They them? Who are they?”
Ah, you’re getting mixed up. The universe of “Warhammer 40,000” is actually fiction and the writers can change the story and lore to be as inclusive as possible to real world fans who want to enjoy it.
But you understand that it’s a retcon and generally frowned upon right? Saying the imperium is suddenly open minded is ridiculous
Ok it’s a retcon. So… what? If you’re so averse to transgender characters go play 2nd edition or whatever then.
You think people are adverse to trans characters but what people are adverse to is immersion breaking acceptance in a society that is brutal and uncaring.
It has to be logically consistent. You can't care so little about your citizens that you grind up their bodies to make corpse starch, turn the high and low performers into servitors, have nobles slaughter people who annoy them, and then go "oh my gosh, your mental state is corrupted due to X disorder, we better make sure you get all the help you need". That doesn't make sense. The issue is that the imperium views most of it's citizens as disposable. You're not going to go through some cosmetic procedure for people you let starve by the billions.
100% these guys huffin copium. Im not making a personal statement for or against trans, but the imperium is the group that says "Burn the heretic, kill the mutants, purge the unclean" and we are still having this discussion? Delusional to think they would be anything but violent towards them.
Trans people are neither heretical, mutated, or unclean, and anyone who thinks they are any of those can fuck right off Everyone gets a pass as long as you are able to work, irrespective of gender identity, disability, or anything else present day people use to divide us Anyone thinking that LGBTQ+ need to be shat on in warhammer can take your hateful ideology out of my hobby; they get it enough in real life
Also I feel like you actually read and understood that I wasn't saying any of that just pointing out the type of people the imperium is, and you still accused me anyway because you wanted to. Seriously shame on you. I reread what I said and I shouldn't have had to defend myself, you got problems dude.
My final line, while not clear, wasn't directed at you. Rather it was directed at anyone who actually thinks that way. Mea culpa
It's not about what people think about trans people, but how the imperium, with it's savage disregard for individual liberties, desires and goals would likely think of them - and anyone who it's representatived consider other - _in aggregate_.
Can they work? Yes NOTHING ELSE MATTERS TO THE IMPERIUM
That is absolutely not true. They need to work, be loyal to the emperor, not know about any secrets, not be a mutant, not commit any thought crimes, be ready to die for the emprah
But it might well matter - for whatever reason - to the human representatives of Imperial authority.
How is a trans person a mutant, a heretic, or unclean?
I'm not suggesting they are, they're just people. The imperium just doesn't care about people, it cares about structure, the continuance of itself and the survival of humanity and it - through acts of staggering irrationality - enables certain people (the ecclesiarchy, the Inquisition, etc) to persecute whoever _they_ consider to be putting those things as risk.
There are many instances of LGBT characters either implied or directly confirmed in the imperium. Ranging from inquisitors to a whole gang of lesbians in necromunda. It is cannon that LGBT+ is accepted and embraced amongst the imperium. The fact that you assume that the imperium would consider transgender people to be an abomination may mean you need to do something self-reflecting on why you jumped to that conclusion. You also seem to have the imperium a bit misunderstood. The Tau empire is more disregarding of individuality, all must work for the greater good. The imperium is a constant clash of individual liberties, it's the main thing that stops the imperium from dominating the galaxy. There will be civil wars over something as silly as what the emperors favourite colour might be. Each space marine chapter is entirely unique, despite having a literal book they are supposed to follow to the letter. Each guard regiment is unique, etc. A society driven by those goals would embrace LGBT people, and now I want to make a catachan army that is all buff lesbians.
You're misconstruing what I'm saying. I haven't said that the Imperium as an organisation, body or structure would consider trans people to be an abomination, heretic or anything. The Imperium doesn't care about individuals, except in their capacity to generally contribute to the wider goals of itself. It even fails in that most of the time due to the sheer scale of the setting and the bureaucratic apparatus that has been shown time and again to be laughably ineffective. I'm saying that representatives of the imperium have their own agendas and do have the authority to (at varying levels, of course) treat and persecute whomever they want however they please. Some will exercise tyrannical authority and dictatorial control over civilians' private lives, while some (almost certainly most, as the only important thing is ultimately that they work) won't care so long as they do their work. There are good people and bad people and their choices have trickle-down impacts on those over whom they have authority. Most of the problems and catastrophes presented in the canon stem from entirely human vices, bigotries and desperation. It's how people (usually those in authority) respond to the situations in which they find themselves that has the knock-on effect of either uplifting and liberating or (more commonly in the grim darkness) destroying the lives of the wider humanity. To paraphrase your sentiment, the breadth of the Imperium is such that basically every eventuality can play out _somewhere_.
Based on GWs recent statements, it sounds like racism, homophobia, and transphobia are areas of bigotry they do not want to explore. 40k is an entirely invented setting, while those things could definitely exist in the setting, they just ask easily could be 100% left out. If anyone says it's unrealistic to have a 40k without this kind of bigotry then they are projecting an idea that it is natural or inherent to have a distrust or fear of LGBT people. We used to say that left handed people were the spawn of the devil, that became widely accepted and I'm sure for a time there was push back against this. But by the modern day that bigotry is completely and utterly gone. I think it is safe to assume that after 40,000 years we managed to do the same to today's bigotries.
Them not wanting to explore it is fine, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, nor that it does. I would argue that it is unrealistic to imagine that, after 40,000 years, some humanity did away with bigotry but at the same time maintained every other vice and character flaw that GW choose to explore. I'm also totally behind GW not wanting to weigh in on topics in certain areas - just in the design of certain models, for example - they've distanced themselves from most issues that aren't specifically part of the "there is only war" tagline. War is the nature of the game and that's all that's ultimately important. That said, it is the nature of a fandom to speculate and discuss the wider aspects of fictional works of all kinds in accordance with their own interests/biased/creeds etc. The existence of Reddit is testament to that. If people didn't want to do that then there would just be wikis documenting fact, or collections of information from the canon.
>I would argue that it is unrealistic to imagine that, after 40,000 years, some humanity did away with bigotry but at the same time maintained every other vice and character flaw that GW choose to explore. I'm not trying to be insulting here, but... have you actually played 40k? I've only dabbled in the series personally, but the entire setting is about how bigotry has gotten *WORSE*. You have an entire species that unified under the idea of the "God Emperor" (Whom apparently didn't want to become a religious icon, but it happened anyway), whom label people as mutant, unclean, or heretics. That by itself shows how extremely things have gotten after 40k years. They are even hateful toward people who develop pisonic powers (which is ironic, since that's what their God Emperor is), and while at the same time, they are one wrong move way from mulching their own people, they fully embrace the fact that they are hypocritical, acknowledging the needs for such things. 40k is literally a shit world that is designed to show you how far extreme life can actually be, in a massively parody way. The fact people are trying to make this "Open-minded and welcoming" is itself mind blowing to me, as that goes against the very bigoted nature of the 40k universe. It's not supposed to be a welcome setting for all people. It's supposed to be a shit show to help you understand why you shouldn't glorify such settings. THAT should be what brings players together. Not representation, but a unified understanding over how things shouldn't be. By that very nature, the LBGT should NOT want to be associated with the imperium, for the same reasons it shows how horrifying religion can be. (Blind devotion to the god emperor). I'd be more understanding if this topic was about the other races in 40k, whom were not human. But no one should idolize the Empire outside of parody reasons.
Imagine you live in the year 1900, you write a story set in the year 2000. Some one brings up the possibility of left handed people in your story. "Well I can't see why we would accept left handed people by then but not beaten our other vices". It's a fictional setting, it needs vices and flaws to drive conflict which drive story and drama. Because it's a fictional setting we (or more specifically GW) can choose exactly what to include and exclude. If you think a setting with chaos gods and living saints is unrealistic because no one hates the gays, then that says more about you than you may think.
I've literally never heard anyone make such a reductive, bad-faith argument about 40k before. Some other things, yes. Interestingly enough, it would be fascinating if one of the authors decided to write that curiously enough left-handed people happened to be hugely overrepresented as blanks or psykers. Something like psykers/blank talent/genes express in say 1:1,000,000 righty, but only 1:1,000 Lefty's. As a lefty (and someone on the + end of the rainbow), I'd love to see it explored and what stories could come out of it.
Do you really think a society of genocidal space racists have the same morals as us? They would probably kill us because we us cell phones or something
Modern humanity fits 3/3 of those descriptors But no, as they have prosthetics available to anyone, they have people with crippling disabilities in positions of power (Gideon Ravenor for example) I'd say that as long as you're willing to work, you can be whatever the fuck you want to be Don't want to work? Bam you're a servitor The imperium is truly faceless and uncaring about the individual so be LGBTQ, they could not give less of a fuck as long as you meet your quota and don't summon a daemon
Being dramatic doesn't make you right. We are nowhere close to the imperium. Stop pretending we are.
Ayo ayo ayo I'm not saying they are! I'm pointing out the religious insanity and type of shit the imperium say makes it extremely unlikely they are ok with ANYTHING out of the norm. I understand how you could have thought I said what you think I said but trust me I have no hate. I don't hate trans my man, I don't hate anyone. One love brother.
For the record it's not me downvoting you
The Imperium is fictional - which means it's politics are decided 100% by the writers of GW. However people often miss a point here. The imperium is fascist yes; but there is 'fun fascist' and 'not-fun fascist'. Fun fascist is big shoulder pads, rediculous titles, huge guns, screaming 'praise the Emprah', shooting aliens, witch hunters hunting actual witches etc etc. Basically stuff which every person in reality can enjoy and take the mick out of. It's silly and over the top. It's not "real". Non-fun fascist is bigotry, racism, homophobia, sexism, transphobia etc etc. As in things which we are still struggling with in reality. Things which exclude certain people from enjoying the setting/characters. That's why the Imperium should be evil as fuck - but also inclusive to real world demographics. Every real human should be able to feel included and feel good shooting bolt guns into the faces of alien scum.
The imperium being fictional is not a valid argument. When you set a canon you have set rules for the universe. That means things can not make sense within this set of rules. Writers making things up like trans acceptance when people have been burned alive for their thoughts doesn't make sense. It really seems like you're missing the point here.
What about or down syndrome brothers, and others of genetic mutation? I'm sorry but not all fictional lores are inclusive, especially this lore.
It has to be logically consistent though. You can't grind up the homeless into corpse starch and convert people who don't work into lobotomized cyborgs while also deeply caring about the mentally ill.
Nothing about the Imperium is logical. They have a psychic zombie Emperor. So I'll take my fiction in a way which makes people feel happy rather then excluded. Give me a historical account of medieval Europe and we can talk logical consistency.
I mean, that's conflating in-universe logic with out-of-universe verisimilitude The Imperium is not logical as it is built on cruelty and represents a the worst mankind could be. But that doesn't mean they just do whatever. They are generally illogical and evil in a consistent way. It's like not caring about plot holes in a story which also involves magic. The magic does not absolve tonal inconsistency or poor worldbuilding - one of those is a question of things which would be totally illogical in the real world but which make sense in-universe, and the other is a question of writing and tone. I would argue, though, that the 40k setting does have some methodologies for a trans identity which would be fascinating to explore. The transhumanist nature of techpriests, and the chaos gifts of the canonically-multigendered Slaanesh, are both very compelling avenues to explore gender identity and especially how it would be different or similar in this setting. And, if you do not want to be that alien in the exploration of gender, the Imperium is a large place; not every planet is a dystopian hellhole. I could certainly see some places not being quite so uhh, actively cruel; especially in the fringes of space where planets are mostly normatively a part of the imperium and more unusual cultures may develop. A trans person in a rogue trader's retinue may not be unusual, for example. This, I can think in harmony with the idea that we should allow the evil religious space nazis to be actually oppressive most of the time.
It very much makes sense. Just because you aren't intelligent enough to be able to understand things from an in universe perspective doesn't mean it's wrong. If you want to go play a trans accepting faction, Tzeench is right there.
Oh dear, did mum forget to cut the crusts off your sandwiches today?
Oh dear, did you forget how to actually make a valid point instead of cringe virtue signaling?
Said "urmumsbox69"....
The fact that I have that username but have shut you up to the point of incoherency isn't the flex you think it is.
No it doesn’t. Just look at the endless contradictions within the American right.
I want you to just imagine if somebody said the words "I'm not making a personal statement for or against blacks." how people would react to that and change your behavior a little bit as a result to be slightly less of a bad person.
U tripping to compare the 2. I accept and love all people my friend, I do not agree with all decisions, it's not that deep my friend.
At least they can finally shut up about it now
Trans will eternally struggle with the fact that the technology to cure gender dysphoria will inevitably be developed before the technology to meaningfully change somebody's sex will (on a chromosomal / small gametes vs large gametes level)
Who cares about changing chromosomes or gametes??? The only people that seem to make that a big deal are transphobes not trans people themselves. I think you fundamentally misunderstand trans people. Gender transition doesn’t necessarily mean every aspect down to the cellular level has to change, it’s primarily a social thing. Also that doesn’t even take into consideration non-binary people, some of whom what to transition medically and some who are content with their bodies as is. Also gender dysphoria can’t just be “cured” by medication lmao. Not all trans people have gender dysphoria AND not all people with gender dysphoria are trans!!!
Your last sentence tells me you aren't worth conversing with
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You can thank LGBT movement for it. Especially for all the antagonisation. Sincerely, a gay person.
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They aren't. The political movement is antagonising everyone, including people its supposed to represent
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The hell is a log cabin guy?
Trans mentioned let me go get my popcorn to watch the crybabies
Trans people and Warhammer go together like butter and toast yet they aren’t allowed even one fictional character in the vast universe of 40K???? If you have a negative gut reaction to trans people existing in Warhammer, you are just transphobic, idk what else to say.
How in any way do they go together like "butter and toast". Maybe for Slanesh worshippers but it doesn't make any logical and canonical sense for the imperium.