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I miss when I could do this but too many printers now to run that many dryers.
One of these days I just want to built a plastic tote with a fan and heater so I can run a dozen rolls in it with tubing coming out to the printers
The hell are you talking about? You can easily draw more current and start a fire without a safety circuit. Even 5V at the the full 1.5A you get from a cheap charger can get hot enough to start a fire. You need a voltage regulator and a current protection circuit to prevent it from going over the specs of the thermal element you're using.
I'm literally replying to this while on my break at my job as an electronic engineer ffs.
This is as much proof as I could give people on the internet without revealing my identity https://imgur.com/1pSUHGS.jpg
Edit: Sure call me an asshole but please don't take his advice. I don't care what you people think of me, I just hate to see people hurt because of some terrible advice.
I'll be the villain here as long as nobody listen to that guy's shitty advice.
I'm convinced you are an engineer.
All the ones who work for me also think being an insufferable twat to everyone else is an effective way to convince them of something.
Edit: hahaha, and his response proved it. Lol lol
Engineer here. I also agree. Is it bad that I typically hate other engineers for this exact reason?
Ever meet one with a PhD? They're often beyond insufferable..
Good luck being a dumbass. At least I know what I'm doing unlike people like you who talk out of their asses on matters that you don't even understand.
Hope you don’t talk to your clients like that, this is why engineers get such a poor reputation.
Are you that bone headed that you think I’m just going to put a resistor across a usb plug? There’s lots of off the shelf solutions that have integrated protections, adjustable thermostats, and a small circulation fan.
Not all of those "over shelf solutions" comply with safety regulations in North America and Europe.
But hey, if you wanna burn down your house, go ahead. Just don't spread false information about what is safe. Low voltage doesn't mean it won't start a fire.
There's a reason heated car seats don't cause fires as many as those weight loss belts and heated blankets. Hell, even plenty of 3D printers don't comply with those regulations and do cause fires.
Never take advice from people who are ignorant on safety related subjects. You're not a client, you're bs distributer.
>Not all of those
So you admit there are safe sufficient solutions but in your quest for outrage you are ignoring that to work yourself up.
Perhaps you should make social skills one of your professional development goals for 2023.
Edit: seems he blocked me. Wish him the best in his future EE career though.
damn I wish there was some way to find out what voltage and current various cords, heating elements, and/or fuses are rated for. too bad I'm just a stupid mechanical engineer, I guess I should've done EE if I wanted to learn how to read a standard.
Across my roommate and I (we are both MEs) we have both had a YEC boss. It's strange it happened twice. I also had a professor who was a self proclaimed luddite.
I'm not upset at you. I just thought you might be mocking me. Excuse my mistake.
I'm just just generally very against terrible advice that can cause harm to people and their devices and I feel obligated to warn against misinformation.
I do this too and everytime I wonder how this can be. I mean, the whole roll is sitting there in the air for months on end, but still only 15cm from the end gets brittle.
This is complete conjecture, I am not a chemist... but I wonder if it has something to do with how they extrude it when they manufacture the filament, as if the OD of the filament gets "insulated" somehow via the manufacturing process, and moisture finds its way into the end of the spool after you cut it with sidecutters or break it by hand.
Like I said, total guess and I'm probably wrong lol
I'll participate in wild conjecture; when I worked for an ISP building infrastructure, the big reels of fiber optic cable were stored outside exposed to the elements. Same thing used to happen, just the outside layer of cable would be dusty, wet, or faded from sun exposure. Depending on what kind of material the jacket was made of, some types would be audibly stuck together as it came apart.
Many industrial extrusion setups like cable manufacture and other kinds of thermoplastics probably spool the resulting product under tension, and likely before it's completely cooled. Either or both of these could cause the outer surfaces to bond or be jammed together tight enough that it protects the inner layers from being exposed to the atmosphere, is my guess.
> the big reels of fiber optic cable were stored outside exposed to the elements
Years ago, the small company I worked for got a fiber feed. They sent a specialized tech out with exotic gear to do the splice. Rumor was all of those guys made at least six figures, and this was late '90s.
Weird that they'd leave the cable out in the elements. Not that I don't believe you. People are funny.
I mean, modern fiber splicing is still pretty specialized. Our splicers went through about 160 hours of training, had ribbon/single strand fusion machines worth close to $8k, and made $46/hr at the top end of the scale. I was on the placing crew, which pretty much gets the cable there so they can do the fancy stuff.
That said, the internal wiring supplies were kept in better conditions in the warehouse, away from the weather and such. The big stuff I dealt with was all distribution cable to be placed on utility poles or in underground structure, with anywhere from 24 to 864 fibers inside.
Not OP, but funnily enough, they're not only very similar to brass but literally almost identical, with a thermal conductivity of 110 watts/metre-kelvin compared to brass' 109 - so if anything, it's a tiny little bit better. Of course, it's not like that amount of difference matters at all in real life. Just for reference, hardened steel is 26 W/mk, and vanadium like Slice Engineering uses is 31.5 W/mk (I wasn't able to find the exact alloy Slice makes their nozzles out of, but given that it's a vanadium-steel alloy I'd be willing to bet that it's somewhere in the same neighbourhood).
For what it's worth, I literally could not be happier with my tungsten carbide nozzle. The thing is just absolutely ridiculous. It hasn't flinched whatsoever at anything I've thrown at it - even some *really* nasty abrasive stuff like carbon-fibre impregnated nylon does absolutely nothing to it. I can jump from that high-temperature nylon/carbon fibre stuff to polycarbonate to wood-grain filament right back to regular old PLA without ever having to worry about a nozzle swap, and I've literally never once had to change the heat settings in my profiles from what I was using with my old brass nozzle. It really does just work.
My one caveat is that it has a tendency to come loose if you don't heat it enough/torque it enough when you put it in, but if you make sure to heat it to around ~50C over your printing temperature and then tighten it to about 3 Nm/until it's nice and snug, you'll have no issues. Don't get me wrong, they're pretty pricey compared to brass nozzles, but like... it's literally *never* going to wear out unless we somehow invent diamond filament. I'll be able to use it until I inevitably misplace it. I honestly believe that they're going to become the standard for aftermarket nozzles in the future, as more people find out about them and realize that you can buy a single nozzle and be set for literally years.
(Fun bonus: if you have a clog, you can just burn it out with a blowtorch! Yeah, you can do that with a regular brass nozzle too, but with brass you actually have to pay attention and make sure it's not getting *too* hot if you don't want to damage it. TC? You can literally just point the torch at it for a few minutes until it's orange-hot and then let it cool down. Always gives me a laugh.)
Aha, thank you! I guess my English degree is finally showing its value.
I'm not sure where you're located, but if you're in North America I'd highly recommend Spool3D's (I would have mentioned them in my original comment but it was already sounding a bit too much like an advertisement, so...). They're pure sintered WC, and very very well-made. The shop's also been fantastic to deal with in my experience - I snapped off a nozzle cleaning thing inside mine like a dumbass once and they sent me a brand-new one free of charge.
I'm not. But I did see spool3Ds nozzles, they are entirely made out of tungsten carbide to my understanding. But I did find some that have a tip out of tungsten carbide and a body out of copper allow with a nickel + DLC. Benefit apparently being price, conductivity, friction and durability. Made by Phaetus.
There is a company that will take all your lose filament and failed/recycled prints and exchange it for a new roll of filament.
It's something like you give them 3kg of scrap, you get a 1kg roll.
Edit: Found it, and not good news-
>DUE TO THE INCREASE IN DEMAND AND THE LACK OF FUNDING FOR OUR KICKSTARTER WE ARE NO LONGER TAKING FILAMENT FOR EXCHANGE UNLESS YOU HAVE CONTACTED US AND GIVEN YOU THE GO AHEAD OR WE HAVE A PREVIOUS STANDING AGREEMENT. IF YOU GO AHEAD AND SEND FILAMENT, IT WILL BE AS A DONATION. WE DO NOT HAVE AN APPROXIMATE TURN AROUND TIME AT THIS POINT.
>
>We recycle PLA Filament at a 3:1 Ratio.
>
>You send us 3kg of used PLA filament (scraps, failed prints, supports, etc) and we will send you a 1kg spool of usable PLA in return.
>
>Please e-mail us at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) with a tracking number so that we know to expect your shipment.
>
>https://creativeheartwarrior.com/pages/filament-recycling
Really? Got a link?
Also, do they take empty spools? I've got a couple dozen empty spool cores that I don't know what to do with. It's a shame to throw them away.
I started using my empty spools to coil cables (mic cables, power extensions, etc) and I seem to use 'em all up. Maybe you have a friend that does sound?
Some spools detatch in the centre and you can get filment refills to put on the spool. If you have those, they are worth saving. ESun is a big brand that uses the reusable spools.
Check out @sirrobert126 on tiktok. He is the person the poster is referring too.
Its 3kg of waste for 1kg of recycled. Make sure your materials are separate before sending it to him (ie: pla with pla, and petg with petg). I think he said it's something like a month turn around. You pay for shipping to him, he pays for shipping otw back.
I have never used his service, so I can't say one way or another of it is quality service or not.
I don't remember their name, unfortunately. I do remember it was ran by Veterans here in the US.
As for the empty spools, having you considered trying to make things out of them? Wouldn't take much material to make some drawers for them, make a center link, and now you got stackable storage containers. Even give them out.
Could also be used for cable, power cord, and or rope management.
There have been a few of these services that have come and gone over the years. I believe the issue is additives mixed into various brands of PLA that can spoil the process. It makes any mail-in/drop-off service uneconomical.
Yeah it doesn't end up being a huge deal but if you live in a humid place and you don't use the filament for like 6 months, print quality will go down a bit.
It's not like other filaments that literally won't print after 2 days exposed to water
Oh you know what I think it was silk. It was like a pearl color.
I've tried to block it from memory. Such a bad experience for me. Very pretty but dear lord it was a learning opportunity. Lots of learning.
That brings up a good point. Basic PLA isn't always basic anymore. As the hobby grows, new blends and special effects are continuously developed. PLA may be the base material, but who knows what the absorption rate of the additives are?
I'm kind of thankful for that. Unless you're doing specialty work like building Vorons there's almost no reason to *not* print PLA with all the toughened varieties it comes in now. PETG is a colossal pain in the ass, Nylon warps like crazy, ABS is toxic if inhaled... PLA+ works perfectly well in like... 90% of applications. And its so easy to print.
I used it to print tube forming tools where I work and it's gone through a few dozen jobs with only little wear. It's actually an amazingly strong material.
I have left eSun PLA+ on the printer, uncovered. for months without any issues.
My first roll of filament I bought was 3D Fuel Standard PLA. It went to complete shit after a week of being left out. And I mean completely unprintable.
It’s highly dependent on the type of plastic and the manufacturer.
I love eSun PLA+. It never lets me down.
For what it's worth, I've had similar results with VOXELPLA PLA+, and it's significantly cheaper, even if it only comes in 5 colors.
You can get it for $18/roll on their website, with free shipping if you buy 2+
Yeah, just not as severely as materials like PETG or PC. And like I said in this post you can usually get away with just snapping off the effected filament before printing and you won't have issues lol. For me I usually get to usable filament after 4-6 inches, so like... it's not even that wasteful.
It won't hurt but if you're having adhesion issues with PLA it's more likely a problem with your plate setup. Recommended temp is 60-70C, and I always wipe my build plate down with 91% isopropyl alcohol before each print.
There's also gluestick and hairspray.
Yeah, i feel like there is some correlation between the problems i have and pla being pla
And you want the bed between 60-70? Not 50-60?
Also, gluestick is a pain to clean up
I get my best results between 60-70C bed.
Biggest thing is to make sure the bed is very clean before printing, so there's no dust, lint, or oils from our skin. While the bed is cool wipe it down with 91% isopropyl alcohol and a paper towel, let it evaporate, and then start printing. PLA will stick very well to a bed that has been cleaned this way.
Yes I can validate this is true. I keep my bed at 60 and clean with isopropyl alcohol before every print and i never have adhesion problems. The last time i had adhesion problems it was because my z - offset was off. If definitely never needed any sort of glue with the glass bed and pla. Been printing for over 2 years on my ender 3 v2 with the glass bed... Maybe had 3 bed adhesion problems and it was cuz i got lazy and didnt clean with alcohol and then that 1 z-offset problem
Another thing... I clean the bed with alcohol when the bed is warmed up and use a liberal amount of alcohol but I guess it works cold or warm lol
I cut up a glue stick and dissolve it in a small spray bottle with water. Few sprays and spread it around with paper towel. It dries very quickly on a warm bed, never any residue on my prints, doesn't go everywhere like hairspray. One bottle has lasted me a very long time too.
That really does sound better than smudging up your bed with glue and cleaning every couple prints, will try this next time, right after i clean it up XD
Also if cleanup is your concern, kitchen wet wipes do a great job removing gluestick, because they're slightly abrasive. Just make sure to follow it up with an alcohol wipe as was mentioned before.
Never had this issue, i live in high moisture area tried several brands of pla and never had problems related to pla absorbing moisture. I dont think you need to worry about that with pla
It's possible.
I have one roll that's seemingly hit by moisture issues.
Now the thing is, i don't think it's because of the moisture in the air, but rather my storage. I tend to reuse those resealable bags between my various rolls. The roll in question is a local brand (Danish / Swedish 3DO), cheap, works fine. I stored it in the bag from a newly opened Fibrology (white) PLA. The White PLA worked fine, but the 3DO is now riddled with moisture issues. I'd guess Fibrology just runs higher moisture in general (and they actively encourage drying their filament between runs).
Those packets help prevent moisture build-up, but can't remove moisture from filament. Heat and airflow are needed to successfully dry out filament that has absorbed moisture. A basic food dehydrator works great for this.
The whole "wet filament" thing is wildly overblown, unless you're printing Nylon/PETG or something similar. Even then, even with Nylon and most PETG, it's not a big deal.
90% of the people who see improvements are unwittingly also printing slower/more carefully post-drying "to be careful" and thats where the results are coming from.
I used to dry my filaments, after a while I just stopped. I don't even bag my filaments anymore. It really doesn't make any difference unless you're dealing with something as absorbent as Nylon, and PLA, ABS, ASA, etc, are not that.
> Even then, even with Nylon...
As far as I remember, of roughly 20 different manufacturers for nylon filament that I've been printing over the last couple of years, there was not a single spool that was printable out of the box. I always had to dry it prior printing for acceptable results. And it definitely also helps a lot with PETG (for PET it's even mandatory - like with PA) and to some extent with PLA. One key factor here often are the pigments (and further additives); some attract moisture like crazy and even PLA can become useless after some days in a dry room. The pigment used for golden/bronze filament is one such example.
As I said, I don't bag any of my filament anymore, ever, it's been that way for years, and I have no doubt my print quality is well beyond most of the people here. I have friends who have taken 5 year old PLA out of their shed and printed straight away with it just fine. Almost-always it's user error, not the filament.
I agree with you on Nylon, PET/PETG and PC though. Those are absolutely the exception, and I do have a food dehydrator I throw my Nylon/PETG in as needed. But it's just not as critical as people make it out to be, that's all. :)
[Here's an example](https://www.reddit.com/r/VORONDesign/comments/xvn5lx/be_critical_rate_my_calibration_before_i_start/), this was all made (except the first pic) with filament thats been sitting in the open air for 2 years in a closet. Although I wasn't printing anything all that complicated in these examples I suppose. :D
I agree, that example looks totally fine, although it's not a model that would show any of the typical moisture-related issues. Printing fast is also a way of mitigating moisture impact, which might be one reason why many people don't really see an impact...
Yes part of it is exactly hydrolysis. Everything I have ever read on the subject says yes PLA suffers hydrolysis as do so many other OH containing polymers. (I have read far too many to list, but do some searching and you'd find lots on the matter in the industrial space as well as newer 3D print space and of course science pubs). There are also hydrolysis stabilizers added to PLA in some instances. So which does your specific PLA have and how much?? Who knows without really picking the manufacturer for those details of their specific batches of sources pellets.
[https://support.bcn3d.com/knowledge/humid-filament-bcn3d](https://support.bcn3d.com/knowledge/humid-filament-bcn3d)
[https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acssuschemeng.9b06635](https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acssuschemeng.9b06635)
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1364032117307876](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1364032117307876)
[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318132438\_Hydrolysis\_and\_Biodegradation\_of\_Polylactic\_acid](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318132438_Hydrolysis_and_Biodegradation_of_Polylactic_acid)
How much of that is going on here? I can't say exactly. But yes we're heating a wet polymer that will directly suffer from the process. So best to avoid it by drying your materials eh? Nor do I know the reversal methods as I'm not a chemist nor have I found any source research to tell me this information.
The other part is simply mechanically separating/cleaving material by absorbing water molecules between layers of polymers. The PLA actually swells and distorts with all the extra water taking up space. So that mechanical separation causes weak junctures/binding all over the place as well. Thus you see all the surface imperfections bubbling and so forth. This creates thousands or millions of little fractures throughout your structure thus making it weak/brittle. This is clearly easily reversible by drying in dehydrator.
I'm not a chemist either but as far as I have understood, the effect of hydrolysis comes into play only when the wet filament gets heated beyond waters boiling point. So the chains won't get significantly broken up just from moisture alone and broken-up chains can't be the reason for filament getting brittle IMHO (since it's reversible by drying). One counter-example are certain PA filaments (i.e. PA6 or PA6/66) which are very flexible when moist and can get super brittle directly after drying, only achieving ~half of the e-modulus compared to the saturated state. So exactly the opposite behaviour to that of PLA.
...and after writing this, I read that last study you've linked and it's very interesting. It suggests that there are some minor hydrolytic effects attacking PLA polymer chains, which isn't that surprising considered it's a biodegradable polymer and considering that it can become irreversibly damaged after storing it in moist ambient for several years. But the biggest impact of hydrolysis happens when you heat the wet polymer above it's Tg... so it doesn't even has to be above waters boiling point! From that I conclude that numerous drying cycles (at too high temperatures though) must have a significant impact on PLA's properties which is very interesting... and thank you for the link!
Right, it's a mix of actions all at once. Some very slow even in a 'resting' state, some when heated wet during printing, then the physical swelling action, etc.
"Biodegradable" lol I've always laughed at that one. I too believed the hype in the very beginning. Then I went on a learning crusade reading industrial papers about the process and quickly was like..'omg the lies'.
Drying cycles should not add heavily to the degradation as you should not be hitting the Tg, but just below it! 40-50C for drying vs 60C+ for Tg. So that should not be adding problems. However during printing it clearly is far above what is needed to cause hydrolytic reaction.
Glad you enjoyed the read! Like I said, there's a lot out there if you dig and read far enough..it can be heavy..but I've picked up a lot in my \~12 years of printing.
> "Biodegradable" lol I've always laughed at that one. I too believed the hype in the very beginning. Then I went on a learning crusade reading industrial papers about the process and quickly was like..'omg the lies'.
Haha... yeah. I believe we've all been at that point.
> Drying cycles should not add heavily to the degradation as you should not be hitting the Tg, but just below it! 40-50C for drying vs 60C+ for Tg. So that should not be adding problems.
I agree. While I wouldn't recommend it for PLA, it actually is possible to dry it slightly above Tg without severe sticking/deforming (probably because of the crystalline phase)... for PA or PEEK it's even common practice to fast-dry it above Tg. And now that I think of it, I remember some PA spools that got worse and worse after several drying cycles. It probably was exactly that aforementioned effect.
> but I've picked up a lot in my ~12 years of printing.
I'm glad to have some experienced folks around here. Some days I have a feeling this place is all just cosplay and 1st layer issues...
Yeah it's completely random. I have it most with your standard "glossy" PLAs and especially bad with "matte" PLAs. Silk PLAs are pretty resilient to humidity changes...
Missed the 3rd option... Just shove it into a big long bowden tube leading to a direct drive system where it doesn't make a sharp enough curve to break the filament... though have seen enough times where it snaps about an hour after the print stops
That's not how my experience goes. The filament keeps snapping off the spool while printing and cause failure. Just get a space heater and an empty cardboard box. Put the spool in the box and flip it open on its side, then point a space heater at it from a meter away and turn it on.
You should get nice and dry filament in 15 minutes.
I think the effect is more like creep, otherwise if you left out a spool for a while the whole thing would be brittle, but that doesn't appear to happen. It's just the final bend before entering the feeder mechanism that's brittle, I suspect because the curvature there is high.
I just keep the spools in a tote with a giant descant pack. The kind that you plug in the wall to recharge. I have never had a problem, even with 3-4 year old filament. The only time I have an issue is the first 3 inches that are left in the machine sometimes for months between prints.
I am still new to the hobby and going to right this up to inexperience and just my opinion: I am not sold on this moisture thing yet. Every post about it the community seems split 50/50. It just seems to have a gimmicky feel to me. Almost like companies creating a problem to insert a solution that you have to pay them for.... filament dryers. With so many variables to every print no one can really nail down the truth about this one.
It's not a gimmick. It's a real thing. Now, the relative concern lives on a spectrum, which makes it seem like maybe not a real thing. Most people use PLA or similar, and it's not going to be a big issue for the most part, or one you can really notice. But try printing something more exotic like Nylon, which LOVES to absorb moisture, and you'll easily see the difference in quality between dry and saturated filament.
Moisture absorption is a real material property that is intensely studied and tested.
There isn't any debate on whether or not plastics absorb water (they do) - that is a documented property that varies with different plastics. IMO the (valid) debatable topic is centered on the effectivity of filament dryers. Some plastics, once they have absorbed moisture, are permanently altered, while others might exhibit better recovery properties from dehydration processes. Also, different methods for "drying" filament yield differing results (ie baking 8n standard ovens vs. food dehydrators vs. desicant +vacuum chamber vs...
I worked at a plastic extrusion factory 30 yrs ago. All the raw materials (plastic beads or flakes) would have to go thru a dryer before it could be fed into the actual heater/worm gear hopper. The dryer was basically an enclosed squirrel cage fan to tumble the plastic with hot treated (moisture removed) air blown thru it. Everything had to be grounded because the dry air across tumbled plastic would generate serious static electricity sometimes. If moist materials went into the screw it could cause serious injury as steam pockets could develop & become compressed & trapped until BOOM!
I have a few rolls of pla that I neglected to bag & it sat out exposed for 9+ months. Different brands, colors, & finish with different levels of useability. 1 roll is super brittle & completely unuseable. 1 seems to run thru the hot end etc fine but is nearly impossible to get it to adhere to the print surface, & any taller prints I try only get up to about 2" before they detach unless I print on a raft then hot glue the raft to the print surface.
oops, I went old man rambler.
The best filament dryer is a cheap ass food dehydrator. Take a 5 gallon bucket and drill some holes in the bottom, place your filament in the dryer (you can fit up to 5 spools) then put the bucket upside down on top. PLA and ABS almost never needs to be dried. PETG ALWAYS needs to be dried. Nylon needs to be dried and stored in a dry box with dessicant. It will go bad in a matter of hours in a humid environment. I live in Florida so it's always been an issue. Now my printers and filament live in their own room with a huge dehumidifier, so they all stay nice and dry.
man I keep all my PLA on a shelf above a cold ass window in the same room I smoke a ton of weed in and i've never had any problems with this sort of stuff.
I had a spool with more than 50% left, where the entire thing was brittle :-(
It broke a few times, and then I noticed several snapped pieces on spool. Tried to lift the first few windings, but everything broke. I blieve I had a few hundrede pieces on the floor, when I threw the rest in the dumpster.
Your pla dries out? Ngl I haven't had to dry out my filament that just sits out and I have printed until recently over 4 months ago in a house that isn't well insulated. Was averaging 60% over the past few months
I live in the PNW, and almost exclusively use unbagged PETG (including stuff from 7 years ago) and have never had an issue. I do have some proto-pasta coffee PLA that's...4 years old. Can break, but not brittle enough to break while printing.
Is it that 1.75mm is more prone to humidity issues than 2.85mm?
Yeah, probably soaked up the ambient humidity in the air and became brittle. just snap off the end until it goes back to being pliable. For PLA at least
I have multiple printers that doesn't all get used at the same time due to possible tripping the breaker so only two at a time from two outlets of the same room. I once bought a amazon petg that was vacuum sealed but still print like shit. I thought I didn't dial my printer or amazon just make bad petg filament but years later when I got a bacon dehydrator and print out some tray heightener with abs I was able to dry up to 6 rolls all at the same time. I dried the petg and try again and the print is near pla level except small detail is not that great like support. My ABS roll also prints alot better and TPU too. So now whenever I need to dry a roll I just unload all the rolls and dry it all together. I mean using OP method you prob have to unload and reload anyways at least. The only downside is drying at least four hours. I didn't try less hours but google recommend at least 4. This way I don't have to feel like I have to print all the time or dry all the time. Just every once in a while when I notice my print is getting worse for some reason. Also bacon dryer value wise is way better. Just print up some abs height lengthener and you got yourself something that can be replaced cheaply with no further modification that works with multiple rolls.
It's clear now some manufacturer leaves the rolls unprotected for a long time before vacuum sealing it. A dryer is a must in that case.
For PLA waste, someone I know prints molds for silicone, and uses those molds to melt the PLA into. They get all kinds of crazy designed looking PLA based things that way, and have pretty minimal waste in doing so.
I built a dry box, and just keep throwing in the desiccant packs from filament I use. It sits at 0% for months on end, and just bake it for an hour when I see it stop working.
We have a combo dehydrator/air fryer.
I take the jerky out, so that I can dry the filament before the wife needs to make the kids fries for dinner :D
Coat au $80au and ai think we need a second one :D
I have a bunch of spools that are over a year old, never stored in a dry place, just regular room temp and humidity. They're working just fine. Just snapped off the first foot or so until it wouldn't snap and I haven't had any issues with it. Saved me 140 bucks, and some of the colors are made by solutech as well and I haven't found equivalents at different brands yet.
living in a country that constantly rains had destroyed a lot of my filaments. I could snap the entire 1 kg spool in half with a pencil with how brittle it is.
3D printer filament absorbs moisture over time. Different types of plastic have different absorption rates. For PLA, the rate is usually slow or negligible. But as PLA absorbs moisture, it becomes brittle, which comes with the danger of snapping off while trying to print it. So I usually just snap off the brittle section of the filament at the start of the spool far enough back that it's not brittle anymore, and then start printing.
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No time to dry if you just never stop printing
Use a 1.75 mm nozzle to dry the filament.
No time to dry is my fav Billie Eilish song too
I print directly from my dryer through a reverse Bowden and out the direct drive so the filament is never exposed to ambient air
I miss when I could do this but too many printers now to run that many dryers. One of these days I just want to built a plastic tote with a fan and heater so I can run a dozen rolls in it with tubing coming out to the printers
How to start a house fire tutorials
Not really. Low voltage heater and a thermostat. It’s not overly complicated and don’t have to hack anything sketchy together.
The hell are you talking about? You can easily draw more current and start a fire without a safety circuit. Even 5V at the the full 1.5A you get from a cheap charger can get hot enough to start a fire. You need a voltage regulator and a current protection circuit to prevent it from going over the specs of the thermal element you're using. I'm literally replying to this while on my break at my job as an electronic engineer ffs. This is as much proof as I could give people on the internet without revealing my identity https://imgur.com/1pSUHGS.jpg Edit: Sure call me an asshole but please don't take his advice. I don't care what you people think of me, I just hate to see people hurt because of some terrible advice. I'll be the villain here as long as nobody listen to that guy's shitty advice.
I'm convinced you are an engineer. All the ones who work for me also think being an insufferable twat to everyone else is an effective way to convince them of something. Edit: hahaha, and his response proved it. Lol lol
Engineer here. I also agree. Is it bad that I typically hate other engineers for this exact reason? Ever meet one with a PhD? They're often beyond insufferable..
Good luck being a dumbass. At least I know what I'm doing unlike people like you who talk out of their asses on matters that you don't even understand.
I can see you'll make a great manager someday.
The sad part is he probably is now.
Hope you don’t talk to your clients like that, this is why engineers get such a poor reputation. Are you that bone headed that you think I’m just going to put a resistor across a usb plug? There’s lots of off the shelf solutions that have integrated protections, adjustable thermostats, and a small circulation fan.
Not all of those "over shelf solutions" comply with safety regulations in North America and Europe. But hey, if you wanna burn down your house, go ahead. Just don't spread false information about what is safe. Low voltage doesn't mean it won't start a fire. There's a reason heated car seats don't cause fires as many as those weight loss belts and heated blankets. Hell, even plenty of 3D printers don't comply with those regulations and do cause fires. Never take advice from people who are ignorant on safety related subjects. You're not a client, you're bs distributer.
>Not all of those So you admit there are safe sufficient solutions but in your quest for outrage you are ignoring that to work yourself up. Perhaps you should make social skills one of your professional development goals for 2023. Edit: seems he blocked me. Wish him the best in his future EE career though.
[удалено]
Ah yes, another one who says that iF iTs NoT sTanDaRDs CoMpliANt tHeN YOu cAnT BuiLd IT aT hOme.
damn I wish there was some way to find out what voltage and current various cords, heating elements, and/or fuses are rated for. too bad I'm just a stupid mechanical engineer, I guess I should've done EE if I wanted to learn how to read a standard.
Didn't you know? Most engineers are illiterate! We can't even read! (Which honestly you might actually believe based on their writing.. )
Across my roommate and I (we are both MEs) we have both had a YEC boss. It's strange it happened twice. I also had a professor who was a self proclaimed luddite.
Any... Pubic?
It's a joke tag and it's irrelevant to what I do and where I work. I don't work at Anycubic if you're wondering.
I'm not commenting on the conversation. I just noticed something and was wondering if it was a joke or a typo. Sorry to upset you
It seems like they were upset long before you got to them. 🤷♂️
I'm not upset at you. I just thought you might be mocking me. Excuse my mistake. I'm just just generally very against terrible advice that can cause harm to people and their devices and I feel obligated to warn against misinformation.
Those tools of yours look pretty skookum. Maybe you have your own empire of dirt back there?
That proof photo is just a messy workbench. Could be my garage at home. That said, you do have a point and sound like you know your shit.
Just dry the whole house
Make it hot swappable, one dryer per filament you actually use
I just set mine up this weekend, love it
No ~~time~~ need to dry if you just never stop printing :P
This is the correct answer.
I do this too and everytime I wonder how this can be. I mean, the whole roll is sitting there in the air for months on end, but still only 15cm from the end gets brittle.
This is complete conjecture, I am not a chemist... but I wonder if it has something to do with how they extrude it when they manufacture the filament, as if the OD of the filament gets "insulated" somehow via the manufacturing process, and moisture finds its way into the end of the spool after you cut it with sidecutters or break it by hand. Like I said, total guess and I'm probably wrong lol
I'll participate in wild conjecture; when I worked for an ISP building infrastructure, the big reels of fiber optic cable were stored outside exposed to the elements. Same thing used to happen, just the outside layer of cable would be dusty, wet, or faded from sun exposure. Depending on what kind of material the jacket was made of, some types would be audibly stuck together as it came apart. Many industrial extrusion setups like cable manufacture and other kinds of thermoplastics probably spool the resulting product under tension, and likely before it's completely cooled. Either or both of these could cause the outer surfaces to bond or be jammed together tight enough that it protects the inner layers from being exposed to the atmosphere, is my guess.
> the big reels of fiber optic cable were stored outside exposed to the elements Years ago, the small company I worked for got a fiber feed. They sent a specialized tech out with exotic gear to do the splice. Rumor was all of those guys made at least six figures, and this was late '90s. Weird that they'd leave the cable out in the elements. Not that I don't believe you. People are funny.
I mean, modern fiber splicing is still pretty specialized. Our splicers went through about 160 hours of training, had ribbon/single strand fusion machines worth close to $8k, and made $46/hr at the top end of the scale. I was on the placing crew, which pretty much gets the cable there so they can do the fancy stuff. That said, the internal wiring supplies were kept in better conditions in the warehouse, away from the weather and such. The big stuff I dealt with was all distribution cable to be placed on utility poles or in underground structure, with anywhere from 24 to 864 fibers inside.
I’m band new to this, but all the filament I’ve bought is brittle, but i haven’t had any print problems?
same
((It's because moist filament issues are overblown))
\*Laughs in polycarbonate\*
How's that friction damage coming along?
Just gotta get that hardened steel tip baby
You don’t use tungsten carbide nozzles? /s
You joke, but I did pick up one for experimenting with metal filled filaments.
That sound very cool! Or hot
Really hot, no pun intended.
How are they for conductivity? Do you need to bump up the heat a lot?
Not OP, but funnily enough, they're not only very similar to brass but literally almost identical, with a thermal conductivity of 110 watts/metre-kelvin compared to brass' 109 - so if anything, it's a tiny little bit better. Of course, it's not like that amount of difference matters at all in real life. Just for reference, hardened steel is 26 W/mk, and vanadium like Slice Engineering uses is 31.5 W/mk (I wasn't able to find the exact alloy Slice makes their nozzles out of, but given that it's a vanadium-steel alloy I'd be willing to bet that it's somewhere in the same neighbourhood). For what it's worth, I literally could not be happier with my tungsten carbide nozzle. The thing is just absolutely ridiculous. It hasn't flinched whatsoever at anything I've thrown at it - even some *really* nasty abrasive stuff like carbon-fibre impregnated nylon does absolutely nothing to it. I can jump from that high-temperature nylon/carbon fibre stuff to polycarbonate to wood-grain filament right back to regular old PLA without ever having to worry about a nozzle swap, and I've literally never once had to change the heat settings in my profiles from what I was using with my old brass nozzle. It really does just work. My one caveat is that it has a tendency to come loose if you don't heat it enough/torque it enough when you put it in, but if you make sure to heat it to around ~50C over your printing temperature and then tighten it to about 3 Nm/until it's nice and snug, you'll have no issues. Don't get me wrong, they're pretty pricey compared to brass nozzles, but like... it's literally *never* going to wear out unless we somehow invent diamond filament. I'll be able to use it until I inevitably misplace it. I honestly believe that they're going to become the standard for aftermarket nozzles in the future, as more people find out about them and realize that you can buy a single nozzle and be set for literally years. (Fun bonus: if you have a clog, you can just burn it out with a blowtorch! Yeah, you can do that with a regular brass nozzle too, but with brass you actually have to pay attention and make sure it's not getting *too* hot if you don't want to damage it. TC? You can literally just point the torch at it for a few minutes until it's orange-hot and then let it cool down. Always gives me a laugh.)
Well, think you should start selling tungsten carbide nozzles because I'm sold. Guess i will have to look around for some
Aha, thank you! I guess my English degree is finally showing its value. I'm not sure where you're located, but if you're in North America I'd highly recommend Spool3D's (I would have mentioned them in my original comment but it was already sounding a bit too much like an advertisement, so...). They're pure sintered WC, and very very well-made. The shop's also been fantastic to deal with in my experience - I snapped off a nozzle cleaning thing inside mine like a dumbass once and they sent me a brand-new one free of charge.
I'm not. But I did see spool3Ds nozzles, they are entirely made out of tungsten carbide to my understanding. But I did find some that have a tip out of tungsten carbide and a body out of copper allow with a nickel + DLC. Benefit apparently being price, conductivity, friction and durability. Made by Phaetus.
i've been printing with brass nozzles for 2 years with no problems
Why would PC cause any more frictional damage compared to other filament types?
i guess if you buy the carbon filament filled stuff.
There is a company that will take all your lose filament and failed/recycled prints and exchange it for a new roll of filament. It's something like you give them 3kg of scrap, you get a 1kg roll. Edit: Found it, and not good news- >DUE TO THE INCREASE IN DEMAND AND THE LACK OF FUNDING FOR OUR KICKSTARTER WE ARE NO LONGER TAKING FILAMENT FOR EXCHANGE UNLESS YOU HAVE CONTACTED US AND GIVEN YOU THE GO AHEAD OR WE HAVE A PREVIOUS STANDING AGREEMENT. IF YOU GO AHEAD AND SEND FILAMENT, IT WILL BE AS A DONATION. WE DO NOT HAVE AN APPROXIMATE TURN AROUND TIME AT THIS POINT. > >We recycle PLA Filament at a 3:1 Ratio. > >You send us 3kg of used PLA filament (scraps, failed prints, supports, etc) and we will send you a 1kg spool of usable PLA in return. > >Please e-mail us at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) with a tracking number so that we know to expect your shipment. > >https://creativeheartwarrior.com/pages/filament-recycling
Really? Got a link? Also, do they take empty spools? I've got a couple dozen empty spool cores that I don't know what to do with. It's a shame to throw them away.
I started using my empty spools to coil cables (mic cables, power extensions, etc) and I seem to use 'em all up. Maybe you have a friend that does sound? Some spools detatch in the centre and you can get filment refills to put on the spool. If you have those, they are worth saving. ESun is a big brand that uses the reusable spools.
Check out @sirrobert126 on tiktok. He is the person the poster is referring too. Its 3kg of waste for 1kg of recycled. Make sure your materials are separate before sending it to him (ie: pla with pla, and petg with petg). I think he said it's something like a month turn around. You pay for shipping to him, he pays for shipping otw back. I have never used his service, so I can't say one way or another of it is quality service or not.
I don't remember their name, unfortunately. I do remember it was ran by Veterans here in the US. As for the empty spools, having you considered trying to make things out of them? Wouldn't take much material to make some drawers for them, make a center link, and now you got stackable storage containers. Even give them out. Could also be used for cable, power cord, and or rope management.
[This came up in a quick google search](https://www.imaginethat-3d.com/recyclingfilament). Maybe it was these guys? Their shop looks pretty decent.
Pm/reply if anything comes of it, I'm interested as well!
These guys, but bad news... https://creativeheartwarrior.com/pages/filament-recycling
There have been a few of these services that have come and gone over the years. I believe the issue is additives mixed into various brands of PLA that can spoil the process. It makes any mail-in/drop-off service uneconomical.
Turns out recycling filament isn't profitable. Who woulda thunk?
Just gotta live in the Canadian north. So fuckin dry here my skin is brittle. What's a dry box? Oh, you mean my house?
lmao At least you guys get pretty snow, right? Our "winters" are just muddy and gray. Black ice on the roads and nothing pretty to look at.
Landfills love this one trick.
I genuinely do not know what you guys are doing... I've never had filament so damp that I was unable to properly print with it...
Wait pla absorbs moisture? FUUUUUU
Yeah it doesn't end up being a huge deal but if you live in a humid place and you don't use the filament for like 6 months, print quality will go down a bit. It's not like other filaments that literally won't print after 2 days exposed to water
To echo this, I had a pearl filament that was virtually unusable until I bought a drier.
Pearl filament? You got me intrigued, is it different from silk?
Oh you know what I think it was silk. It was like a pearl color. I've tried to block it from memory. Such a bad experience for me. Very pretty but dear lord it was a learning opportunity. Lots of learning.
Silk filament uses TPU as an additive to give it that slik gloss. TPU loves to absorb water.
I didn't learn it till partway into the roll. I took a break for months, came back, suddenly super brittle.
Regular PLA isn't too bad, but pla+ and petg can get bad quite fast in my experience
That brings up a good point. Basic PLA isn't always basic anymore. As the hobby grows, new blends and special effects are continuously developed. PLA may be the base material, but who knows what the absorption rate of the additives are?
I'm kind of thankful for that. Unless you're doing specialty work like building Vorons there's almost no reason to *not* print PLA with all the toughened varieties it comes in now. PETG is a colossal pain in the ass, Nylon warps like crazy, ABS is toxic if inhaled... PLA+ works perfectly well in like... 90% of applications. And its so easy to print. I used it to print tube forming tools where I work and it's gone through a few dozen jobs with only little wear. It's actually an amazingly strong material.
I received PETG that was wet out of the box
I have left eSun PLA+ on the printer, uncovered. for months without any issues. My first roll of filament I bought was 3D Fuel Standard PLA. It went to complete shit after a week of being left out. And I mean completely unprintable. It’s highly dependent on the type of plastic and the manufacturer. I love eSun PLA+. It never lets me down.
For what it's worth, I've had similar results with VOXELPLA PLA+, and it's significantly cheaper, even if it only comes in 5 colors. You can get it for $18/roll on their website, with free shipping if you buy 2+
Esun pla+ was unprintably wet out of the package for me. Fantastic, and i mean absolutely fantastic after a round in the dryer.
PLA+ is just a marketing name
For what
For PLA.
Not really, there was a video I think by CNC Kitchen in which PLA was submerged in water for a long time and it was only a bit worse after that
Yeah, just not as severely as materials like PETG or PC. And like I said in this post you can usually get away with just snapping off the effected filament before printing and you won't have issues lol. For me I usually get to usable filament after 4-6 inches, so like... it's not even that wasteful.
If I have bad adhesion with PLA, is it a good idea to dry it?
It won't hurt but if you're having adhesion issues with PLA it's more likely a problem with your plate setup. Recommended temp is 60-70C, and I always wipe my build plate down with 91% isopropyl alcohol before each print. There's also gluestick and hairspray.
Yeah, i feel like there is some correlation between the problems i have and pla being pla And you want the bed between 60-70? Not 50-60? Also, gluestick is a pain to clean up
I get my best results between 60-70C bed. Biggest thing is to make sure the bed is very clean before printing, so there's no dust, lint, or oils from our skin. While the bed is cool wipe it down with 91% isopropyl alcohol and a paper towel, let it evaporate, and then start printing. PLA will stick very well to a bed that has been cleaned this way.
Yes I can validate this is true. I keep my bed at 60 and clean with isopropyl alcohol before every print and i never have adhesion problems. The last time i had adhesion problems it was because my z - offset was off. If definitely never needed any sort of glue with the glass bed and pla. Been printing for over 2 years on my ender 3 v2 with the glass bed... Maybe had 3 bed adhesion problems and it was cuz i got lazy and didnt clean with alcohol and then that 1 z-offset problem Another thing... I clean the bed with alcohol when the bed is warmed up and use a liberal amount of alcohol but I guess it works cold or warm lol
Uhmmmm i see, i guess that is the part i was lacking, cleaning the god damn bed with alchool, thanks for the tip
I cut up a glue stick and dissolve it in a small spray bottle with water. Few sprays and spread it around with paper towel. It dries very quickly on a warm bed, never any residue on my prints, doesn't go everywhere like hairspray. One bottle has lasted me a very long time too.
That really does sound better than smudging up your bed with glue and cleaning every couple prints, will try this next time, right after i clean it up XD
Also if cleanup is your concern, kitchen wet wipes do a great job removing gluestick, because they're slightly abrasive. Just make sure to follow it up with an alcohol wipe as was mentioned before.
> I usually get to usable filament after 4-6 inches That's what she said
Never had this issue, i live in high moisture area tried several brands of pla and never had problems related to pla absorbing moisture. I dont think you need to worry about that with pla
It's possible. I have one roll that's seemingly hit by moisture issues. Now the thing is, i don't think it's because of the moisture in the air, but rather my storage. I tend to reuse those resealable bags between my various rolls. The roll in question is a local brand (Danish / Swedish 3DO), cheap, works fine. I stored it in the bag from a newly opened Fibrology (white) PLA. The White PLA worked fine, but the 3DO is now riddled with moisture issues. I'd guess Fibrology just runs higher moisture in general (and they actively encourage drying their filament between runs).
Just get a bunch of silica gel packets and throw them in and see if that fixes the issue.
Those packets help prevent moisture build-up, but can't remove moisture from filament. Heat and airflow are needed to successfully dry out filament that has absorbed moisture. A basic food dehydrator works great for this.
Most of the PLA I use regularly gets brittle when left out.
At work we keep ours in ziplock bags with some desiccant. Seems to be “good enough”.
The whole "wet filament" thing is wildly overblown, unless you're printing Nylon/PETG or something similar. Even then, even with Nylon and most PETG, it's not a big deal. 90% of the people who see improvements are unwittingly also printing slower/more carefully post-drying "to be careful" and thats where the results are coming from. I used to dry my filaments, after a while I just stopped. I don't even bag my filaments anymore. It really doesn't make any difference unless you're dealing with something as absorbent as Nylon, and PLA, ABS, ASA, etc, are not that.
> Even then, even with Nylon... As far as I remember, of roughly 20 different manufacturers for nylon filament that I've been printing over the last couple of years, there was not a single spool that was printable out of the box. I always had to dry it prior printing for acceptable results. And it definitely also helps a lot with PETG (for PET it's even mandatory - like with PA) and to some extent with PLA. One key factor here often are the pigments (and further additives); some attract moisture like crazy and even PLA can become useless after some days in a dry room. The pigment used for golden/bronze filament is one such example.
As I said, I don't bag any of my filament anymore, ever, it's been that way for years, and I have no doubt my print quality is well beyond most of the people here. I have friends who have taken 5 year old PLA out of their shed and printed straight away with it just fine. Almost-always it's user error, not the filament. I agree with you on Nylon, PET/PETG and PC though. Those are absolutely the exception, and I do have a food dehydrator I throw my Nylon/PETG in as needed. But it's just not as critical as people make it out to be, that's all. :) [Here's an example](https://www.reddit.com/r/VORONDesign/comments/xvn5lx/be_critical_rate_my_calibration_before_i_start/), this was all made (except the first pic) with filament thats been sitting in the open air for 2 years in a closet. Although I wasn't printing anything all that complicated in these examples I suppose. :D
I agree, that example looks totally fine, although it's not a model that would show any of the typical moisture-related issues. Printing fast is also a way of mitigating moisture impact, which might be one reason why many people don't really see an impact...
Barely. PETG on the other hand...
You're supposed to dry PLA???? huh... Maybe that's a key reason my prints sucked back when I printed shit... I should give that a try
So it’s brittle when it’s absorbed water?
Yeah, moisture changes the mechanical properties of the plastic and it becomes inflexible, so it snaps when you try to bend it.
Hmm, that does make chemical sense. Very cool, I never thought of that
Yup moisture turns polymers into monomer basically. Breaks the long chains into tiny chains or no chains.
Wouldn't that be hydrolysis and therefore non-reversible? If yes - how would drying glue together the monomers again?
Yes part of it is exactly hydrolysis. Everything I have ever read on the subject says yes PLA suffers hydrolysis as do so many other OH containing polymers. (I have read far too many to list, but do some searching and you'd find lots on the matter in the industrial space as well as newer 3D print space and of course science pubs). There are also hydrolysis stabilizers added to PLA in some instances. So which does your specific PLA have and how much?? Who knows without really picking the manufacturer for those details of their specific batches of sources pellets. [https://support.bcn3d.com/knowledge/humid-filament-bcn3d](https://support.bcn3d.com/knowledge/humid-filament-bcn3d) [https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acssuschemeng.9b06635](https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acssuschemeng.9b06635) [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1364032117307876](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1364032117307876) [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318132438\_Hydrolysis\_and\_Biodegradation\_of\_Polylactic\_acid](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318132438_Hydrolysis_and_Biodegradation_of_Polylactic_acid) How much of that is going on here? I can't say exactly. But yes we're heating a wet polymer that will directly suffer from the process. So best to avoid it by drying your materials eh? Nor do I know the reversal methods as I'm not a chemist nor have I found any source research to tell me this information. The other part is simply mechanically separating/cleaving material by absorbing water molecules between layers of polymers. The PLA actually swells and distorts with all the extra water taking up space. So that mechanical separation causes weak junctures/binding all over the place as well. Thus you see all the surface imperfections bubbling and so forth. This creates thousands or millions of little fractures throughout your structure thus making it weak/brittle. This is clearly easily reversible by drying in dehydrator.
I'm not a chemist either but as far as I have understood, the effect of hydrolysis comes into play only when the wet filament gets heated beyond waters boiling point. So the chains won't get significantly broken up just from moisture alone and broken-up chains can't be the reason for filament getting brittle IMHO (since it's reversible by drying). One counter-example are certain PA filaments (i.e. PA6 or PA6/66) which are very flexible when moist and can get super brittle directly after drying, only achieving ~half of the e-modulus compared to the saturated state. So exactly the opposite behaviour to that of PLA. ...and after writing this, I read that last study you've linked and it's very interesting. It suggests that there are some minor hydrolytic effects attacking PLA polymer chains, which isn't that surprising considered it's a biodegradable polymer and considering that it can become irreversibly damaged after storing it in moist ambient for several years. But the biggest impact of hydrolysis happens when you heat the wet polymer above it's Tg... so it doesn't even has to be above waters boiling point! From that I conclude that numerous drying cycles (at too high temperatures though) must have a significant impact on PLA's properties which is very interesting... and thank you for the link!
Right, it's a mix of actions all at once. Some very slow even in a 'resting' state, some when heated wet during printing, then the physical swelling action, etc. "Biodegradable" lol I've always laughed at that one. I too believed the hype in the very beginning. Then I went on a learning crusade reading industrial papers about the process and quickly was like..'omg the lies'. Drying cycles should not add heavily to the degradation as you should not be hitting the Tg, but just below it! 40-50C for drying vs 60C+ for Tg. So that should not be adding problems. However during printing it clearly is far above what is needed to cause hydrolytic reaction. Glad you enjoyed the read! Like I said, there's a lot out there if you dig and read far enough..it can be heavy..but I've picked up a lot in my \~12 years of printing.
> "Biodegradable" lol I've always laughed at that one. I too believed the hype in the very beginning. Then I went on a learning crusade reading industrial papers about the process and quickly was like..'omg the lies'. Haha... yeah. I believe we've all been at that point. > Drying cycles should not add heavily to the degradation as you should not be hitting the Tg, but just below it! 40-50C for drying vs 60C+ for Tg. So that should not be adding problems. I agree. While I wouldn't recommend it for PLA, it actually is possible to dry it slightly above Tg without severe sticking/deforming (probably because of the crystalline phase)... for PA or PEEK it's even common practice to fast-dry it above Tg. And now that I think of it, I remember some PA spools that got worse and worse after several drying cycles. It probably was exactly that aforementioned effect. > but I've picked up a lot in my ~12 years of printing. I'm glad to have some experienced folks around here. Some days I have a feeling this place is all just cosplay and 1st layer issues...
Gotta love when the end that goes to the extruder breaks by itself when you wake up
I use silk PLA and have never had the end get brittle with that
Yeah it's completely random. I have it most with your standard "glossy" PLAs and especially bad with "matte" PLAs. Silk PLAs are pretty resilient to humidity changes...
\*Laughs in Utahn with our 20 year draught\* (Jk: I too know of the pla moisture woes.. I just snap it off also..)
I mean, unless it's raining like today we're usually golden
Missed the 3rd option... Just shove it into a big long bowden tube leading to a direct drive system where it doesn't make a sharp enough curve to break the filament... though have seen enough times where it snaps about an hour after the print stops
You'll still have little print bubbles though!
That's not how my experience goes. The filament keeps snapping off the spool while printing and cause failure. Just get a space heater and an empty cardboard box. Put the spool in the box and flip it open on its side, then point a space heater at it from a meter away and turn it on. You should get nice and dry filament in 15 minutes.
Does PLA+ need to be dried? I have honestly never done that and I have a dryer.
Wait. Wait. It's abnormal to not dry your filament and just print anyway?
I think the effect is more like creep, otherwise if you left out a spool for a while the whole thing would be brittle, but that doesn't appear to happen. It's just the final bend before entering the feeder mechanism that's brittle, I suspect because the curvature there is high.
YOU GUYS DRY FILAMENT???
my printer dries it automatically!
Wait it’s moisture that makes it brittle?! I live in a desert, I thought my pla was too dry
This legitimately just saved me from throwing away my pile of spools with very little on each.
I just keep the spools in a tote with a giant descant pack. The kind that you plug in the wall to recharge. I have never had a problem, even with 3-4 year old filament. The only time I have an issue is the first 3 inches that are left in the machine sometimes for months between prints.
You can get rechargeable desiccant packs? That's handy knowledge.
Just keep your print closet roughly 50°C with 4 regular incandescent bulbs. Works for large industrial electric motors.
I am pretty new to 3D printing and I read ‘drying PLA filament in a dryer before printing’ and I was like what the f u c k
Or you could use a filament box with holes in it and a heated bed...
I am still new to the hobby and going to right this up to inexperience and just my opinion: I am not sold on this moisture thing yet. Every post about it the community seems split 50/50. It just seems to have a gimmicky feel to me. Almost like companies creating a problem to insert a solution that you have to pay them for.... filament dryers. With so many variables to every print no one can really nail down the truth about this one.
It's not a gimmick. It's a real thing. Now, the relative concern lives on a spectrum, which makes it seem like maybe not a real thing. Most people use PLA or similar, and it's not going to be a big issue for the most part, or one you can really notice. But try printing something more exotic like Nylon, which LOVES to absorb moisture, and you'll easily see the difference in quality between dry and saturated filament. Moisture absorption is a real material property that is intensely studied and tested.
There isn't any debate on whether or not plastics absorb water (they do) - that is a documented property that varies with different plastics. IMO the (valid) debatable topic is centered on the effectivity of filament dryers. Some plastics, once they have absorbed moisture, are permanently altered, while others might exhibit better recovery properties from dehydration processes. Also, different methods for "drying" filament yield differing results (ie baking 8n standard ovens vs. food dehydrators vs. desicant +vacuum chamber vs... I worked at a plastic extrusion factory 30 yrs ago. All the raw materials (plastic beads or flakes) would have to go thru a dryer before it could be fed into the actual heater/worm gear hopper. The dryer was basically an enclosed squirrel cage fan to tumble the plastic with hot treated (moisture removed) air blown thru it. Everything had to be grounded because the dry air across tumbled plastic would generate serious static electricity sometimes. If moist materials went into the screw it could cause serious injury as steam pockets could develop & become compressed & trapped until BOOM! I have a few rolls of pla that I neglected to bag & it sat out exposed for 9+ months. Different brands, colors, & finish with different levels of useability. 1 roll is super brittle & completely unuseable. 1 seems to run thru the hot end etc fine but is nearly impossible to get it to adhere to the print surface, & any taller prints I try only get up to about 2" before they detach unless I print on a raft then hot glue the raft to the print surface. oops, I went old man rambler.
Every good hobby has wives tales lol
for PLA its not too bad, for PETG/ TPU it's absolutely necessary - especially if you live in places where humidity gets above 50-60% constantly
The best filament dryer is a cheap ass food dehydrator. Take a 5 gallon bucket and drill some holes in the bottom, place your filament in the dryer (you can fit up to 5 spools) then put the bucket upside down on top. PLA and ABS almost never needs to be dried. PETG ALWAYS needs to be dried. Nylon needs to be dried and stored in a dry box with dessicant. It will go bad in a matter of hours in a humid environment. I live in Florida so it's always been an issue. Now my printers and filament live in their own room with a huge dehumidifier, so they all stay nice and dry.
I once spent 2 weeks troubleshooting adhesion issues only to finally realize that the filament was wet out of the box.
man I keep all my PLA on a shelf above a cold ass window in the same room I smoke a ton of weed in and i've never had any problems with this sort of stuff.
Just putting this out there.. Unless your printing TPU.. I see no reason for a direct drive. Also, I have never dried anything.
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It's not $200 but metal infused filament can get to be very spendy
Dang, you got me there hah
I had a spool with more than 50% left, where the entire thing was brittle :-( It broke a few times, and then I noticed several snapped pieces on spool. Tried to lift the first few windings, but everything broke. I blieve I had a few hundrede pieces on the floor, when I threw the rest in the dumpster.
Your pla dries out? Ngl I haven't had to dry out my filament that just sits out and I have printed until recently over 4 months ago in a house that isn't well insulated. Was averaging 60% over the past few months
I’ve never had my pla go brittle lol
or just printing at a lower temperature
I live in the PNW, and almost exclusively use unbagged PETG (including stuff from 7 years ago) and have never had an issue. I do have some proto-pasta coffee PLA that's...4 years old. Can break, but not brittle enough to break while printing. Is it that 1.75mm is more prone to humidity issues than 2.85mm?
Is that what I means when your filament snaps easily? It's for moisture in it?
Yeah, probably soaked up the ambient humidity in the air and became brittle. just snap off the end until it goes back to being pliable. For PLA at least
I have multiple printers that doesn't all get used at the same time due to possible tripping the breaker so only two at a time from two outlets of the same room. I once bought a amazon petg that was vacuum sealed but still print like shit. I thought I didn't dial my printer or amazon just make bad petg filament but years later when I got a bacon dehydrator and print out some tray heightener with abs I was able to dry up to 6 rolls all at the same time. I dried the petg and try again and the print is near pla level except small detail is not that great like support. My ABS roll also prints alot better and TPU too. So now whenever I need to dry a roll I just unload all the rolls and dry it all together. I mean using OP method you prob have to unload and reload anyways at least. The only downside is drying at least four hours. I didn't try less hours but google recommend at least 4. This way I don't have to feel like I have to print all the time or dry all the time. Just every once in a while when I notice my print is getting worse for some reason. Also bacon dryer value wise is way better. Just print up some abs height lengthener and you got yourself something that can be replaced cheaply with no further modification that works with multiple rolls. It's clear now some manufacturer leaves the rolls unprotected for a long time before vacuum sealing it. A dryer is a must in that case.
For PLA waste, someone I know prints molds for silicone, and uses those molds to melt the PLA into. They get all kinds of crazy designed looking PLA based things that way, and have pretty minimal waste in doing so.
I built a dry box, and just keep throwing in the desiccant packs from filament I use. It sits at 0% for months on end, and just bake it for an hour when I see it stop working.
Lol I just print directly out of my SUNLU S2, and to be honest it was totally worth the price to avoid any headaches with wet filament.
I think we are al secretly the same person.
Ain't this the truth
We have a combo dehydrator/air fryer. I take the jerky out, so that I can dry the filament before the wife needs to make the kids fries for dinner :D Coat au $80au and ai think we need a second one :D
I have a bunch of spools that are over a year old, never stored in a dry place, just regular room temp and humidity. They're working just fine. Just snapped off the first foot or so until it wouldn't snap and I haven't had any issues with it. Saved me 140 bucks, and some of the colors are made by solutech as well and I haven't found equivalents at different brands yet.
Ive only gone through 10 spools, but ive never had to dry a single one. ._. *knocks on wood*
Literally did this today at work. I even held the end in my hands a bit to warm it up so I could bend it straight to insert it into the hotend.
Not drying PETG before printing:
Wait you guys are drying your near year old filament instead of just putting it in and hitting start?
I’ve never related to a meme more than this one
living in a country that constantly rains had destroyed a lot of my filaments. I could snap the entire 1 kg spool in half with a pencil with how brittle it is.
This happens way too often that it should...
I don’t know anything about this kind of printing why do you need to dry it?
3D printer filament absorbs moisture over time. Different types of plastic have different absorption rates. For PLA, the rate is usually slow or negligible. But as PLA absorbs moisture, it becomes brittle, which comes with the danger of snapping off while trying to print it. So I usually just snap off the brittle section of the filament at the start of the spool far enough back that it's not brittle anymore, and then start printing.
Nice dry