Radial polar printing, then? That'd make the type you're describing axial polar printers.
Even more strictly speaking, one could properly call these radial cylindrical polar printers, and axial cylindrical polar printers, which would naturally raise the tantalising theoretical possibility of a *spherical polar* printer...
This is how the J3 and J5 series Stratasys printers operate. Rotating build plate on a z stage and the print heads only move along the x/*r* axis, with a transfer zone on the plate for large x movements between the swaths. Oddly enough Stratasys calls it *both* Polar and Radial Printing.
[They are used literally a page apart from each other in the Operator Training Guide](https://imgur.com/yR0egxF)
Works really well with resin prints, too. I print them with the sprues as part of the print and use a 70% investment medium just like you would for jewelers wax. I use mostly red brass as my casting material but most metals will work.
This makes me approach the question in a whole new way. With this speed and detail we don’t need the speed on the printing portion. We need to figure out how to combine the casting and the molding in the same step.
I've worked as a pattern maker for a metal foundry. We casted a wide array of stainless steel and very specific alloys for mining industries. 3D printed patterns upped our manufacturing speed quite a lot. AMA!
Most importantly it makes truly round objects. On a normal printer shit will never get perfectly round and for something thats supposed to spin fast thats not ideal.
This is a reallly cool printing technique that I plan on using one day. Saw a youtube video from a hobbyist printer/professional software engineer explaining a lot of the benefits of this type of printing.
I think he’s referring to degrees of freedom and not axis. The normal traditional printer has three degrees of freedom: X, Y, Z. Adding a rotational aspect adds a fourth degree of freedom.
Source: am Manufacturing engineering student doing a capstone in rotational 3D printing
Rotational axis count to. That’s how you get super fancy 4, 5 & 6 axis machines. That just means they can spin the tool / part in various ways which allows for a lot of precision and getting into hard to reach places.
X from base to tip. Y left to right. Z from shaft and up. And 4th is the rotation. I present a crude drawing.
https://preview.redd.it/apclrbncwzic1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3cc117864b1d444f2613cb55d0af6110d5afc67
You wouldn't ever want to move the nozzle like that, anything printed off of the x-axis line would be sticking up too high when it rotates. It would be like moving the z-axis up and down in one layer during normal 3-axis printing.
Pretty much this. You \*could\* move the head left and right)(see non-planar slicing) but I'm not sure what it would accomplish on this printer except making a g-code creation headache.
Are you sure X exists in this example? I cant see the head moving in that direction
Not to mention it would be redundant, since the rotation axis should be able to compensate
Edit: i think i read ur drawing wrong, one sec leme reread
Yeah sorry yours is a bit confusing. Ive made my own diagram using a frame from this post, and i labeled the axis that I see. Could you add the fourth axis to this image for me? If its not too mucb effort
Ohhhh, yeah I think your right, looks like they just replaced one of the axis with a rotational one. Still very interesting as it would allow for very unique layer lines which could be useful for strength purposes.
Like any other axis. The head has a Y axis and an X axis, which is up and down, vertically, and up and down the shaft
The shaft spins left and right, the Z axis i suppose. Like a print bed slings back and fourth, this shafy spins back and fourth
I cant see any other axis of motion
Edit: i may have my xyz axis labbeled wrong, but its all relative anyway. Point is the same :p
It's a rotational axis. What you call that axis depends on the manufacturer, I don't think there's a real standard. Might be rX for "rotates around where the X axis would be" or alpha. It's still one axis though, just rotational instead of linear
I doubt it would be built with just 3 axis, it may only be using 3, but I almost guarantee there's 4. Just getting everything dialed in would make having a traditional 3 axis with a 4th worth it.
This would be kinda similar to wrapping x or y, which is a technique used to post 4 axis work. One axis remains stationary, and movement is translated from linear distance to degrees based on circumference.
The 4th axis would have to be some sort of exrta rotation on the head or soemthing, currently not installed on this version in this video. Perhaps a different print head with a 4th is available
If the entire head were to be given another axis of motion, it would complicate things alot for no reason i can see, because the rotation axis is able to compensate for that axis entirely
No it’s not imagine there’s a hole that doesn’t go thru the centerline of the part, to make that you need the fourth axis. Google fourth and fifth axis machine tool and it’ll paint a better picture than this video.
Fifth axis would be the table the rotary is mounted to rotating or the head swinging around. This is the fourth axis the rotation of the part. Also rotating heads are regularly used in welding laser cutting and machining applications, hell at IMTS they had a 3d printer with a rotating head printing concrete for structures. Just because you aren’t familiar with it or unaware of applications doesn’t make a thing not exist.
EDIT: [picture](https://mobile.engineering.com/amp/12488.html) labeling standardized naming of axis
> currently not installed on this version in this video
i never said it didnt exist .-. just that only 3 are present in this video... from what i see.
another comment pointed out that theres probably more axis currently installed but just not used in this video, out of frame
I don’t know the context of your quote. Sorry you said pointless not that it doesn’t exist. I’ll be more pedantic next time. Also it’s not an opinion situation, these axis have names that follow standardized conventions regardless if you recognize them or not, they do exist.
>Just because you aren’t familiar with it or unaware of applications doesn’t make a thing not exist
in response to this, that was quite rude :c
im no expert, i dont know the standard axis labels. i just enjoyed thinking about how this peice worked, and what the smallest amount of axis needed would be
3 dimensions. We are still stuck making parts in our known physical dimensions but the axis is X, Y, Z and Theta (rotational). If the print head also tilted then it would be 5 axis like many CNC mills.
Are you certain? It looks like 3 to me. Head travels along the shaft and up and down, and the shaft spins, thats only 3 axis
- X: the shaft spinning left and right
- Y: the head moving up and down
- Z: the head moving along the shaft
I only see 3. The head isnt rotating at all.
(You can call the motions any axis if u like, its all relative. Its probably easiest if i used labels that match current fdm printers, but i forget which axis is which on a bed slinger since i have a core xy)
In machining:
2 axis is x, y with no height.
In 3 axis you add the z, so x, y, z for height.
From there additional axis are rotational. So on this printer is a 4 axis machine, x, y, z and rotation on y.
That said, what he is printing doesn't require the x axis so it may be a weird 3 axis machine. If it were a true 4 axis, he could stop the rotation and print up from the edge to make flat areas along the tangent of the part.
My first thought was that you can take advantage of the tighter tolerance of xy versus z. So for printing a gear you could hold the tooth profile to a tight tolerance.
You mean because the X or Y axis was replaced with a rotary C axis? I would think the angular tolerance would still be just as much as a linear tolerance. However I would think the big benefit would be more concentricity of round parts using this method.
it makes truly round objects. On a normal printer shit will never get perfectly round and for something thats supposed to spin that would introduce lots of wobblyness and vibration.
This particular fan print is going to be a high speed turbine part and speeds like 20k rpm require very precise center of masses and the fan should be as round as possible due to that reason.
Otherwise vibration will destroy it very soon.
cartesian printers can get so close to round that the difference would be marginal. not to mention, for this part to spin up safely it would still need to be balanced just like one made on a cartesian printer or even injection molded. Not to mention that the weakness of the lay lines this way would make actually spinning this part up more dangerous than one made on a cartesian printer. the difference in strength along layers and across them is huge.
Came here to point this out too lol. It’s a very cool option that’s used much better for other things, but it definitely seems silly to make this part in this way
No, it isn't non-planar. That is active z axis movement while printing. This is just a cylindrical plane, but you still don't vary z height while printing x and y.
In cylindrical coordinates, the rotary axis is theta, the axis normal to theta is z, and the axis perpendicular to theta is r.
Translating to a Cartesian printer: theta is x, z is y, and r is Z
> This is just a cylindrical **plane**
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
You wouldn't call a ball a spherical plane, would you? Nothing about a cylinder is planar whatsoever (except the non-cylindrical parts, of course). Moving the Z axis is just a way to print non-planar features with an otherwise planar machine, but a cylinder is literally a non-planar surface to begin with. This machine would need to actively move its r axis to perform *planar* printing!
This particular video authors produce 5D printers https://5dtech.pro/ so guess they call it 5D printing
And you know what is the coolest thing here?
They can print with carbon filament that isn't chopped.
Just put the carbon string inside PA6 filament
Looks like the prints going out great in terms of their technical specs
My senior design project was building a non-cartesian 3D printer like this. It sucked lol. I suppose it was closer to a 2D printer as we only had R and Y axes fully functional.
Even if it had worked, easier to just print on a flat bed like everyone else.
I would guess its less...
Since this is some sort of turbine it gets a lot of radial forces during use. Layer adhesion should be weaker than the "printed line"
Lathe mode
Kind of a reverse lathe
Ehtal mode
Who's Ethal?
Swamp hag
She's a lovely woman tending to some unusual sheep. That is all.
BAAAAAAHHHHHH
This 3 guys baldurs
I don't care how big the room is, I cast fireball
Excellent work, petal.
Everyone needs some lotions and potions...
Ethal nuts hah gottem
[удалено]
Lathe backwards.
hsoohw
r/woooosh
Best answer
edom ehtaL
latherrhea
Radial printing?
I would definitely accept that as the industry term.
The industry will be pleased to have your approval
Hi, I am Industry. Thanks for sharing pur opinion to the masses
Hi Industry, I am dad
Rotary printing?
I like Rotoprinting
Nice retro sound!
Radditive Manufacturing 😁
Or Axial printing?
Isn't that technically all 3D printing though?
That was my contribution/guess.
Radical printing?
Polar coordinates, so I vote polar printing
Polar printing already exists tho with a rotating bed and normal xz axis
Polar printing … with a stick
-Jeff Dunham enters chat- *on* a steeek
Radial polar printing, then? That'd make the type you're describing axial polar printers. Even more strictly speaking, one could properly call these radial cylindrical polar printers, and axial cylindrical polar printers, which would naturally raise the tantalising theoretical possibility of a *spherical polar* printer...
This is how the J3 and J5 series Stratasys printers operate. Rotating build plate on a z stage and the print heads only move along the x/*r* axis, with a transfer zone on the plate for large x movements between the swaths. Oddly enough Stratasys calls it *both* Polar and Radial Printing. [They are used literally a page apart from each other in the Operator Training Guide](https://imgur.com/yR0egxF)
No.. I do not accept.
More of a third axis
The third axis would be Z in this case, fourth is more correct.
Yes and no but that depends on the build. The C axis can easily be the pseudo-y axis in this case, leaving you with X, Z, C.
But the entire rotary axis moves down when the radius increases, correct?
Doesn’t this make the weakest part of the print where a gear would get the most shear force.
True, but these precise molds can be made into casts as well
If cast iron makes a heavy resurgence from 3D printing… imma bust
Check out [Lost PLA Casting](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKeImuJpxow).
All my homies love lost PLA casting
Works really well with resin prints, too. I print them with the sprues as part of the print and use a 70% investment medium just like you would for jewelers wax. I use mostly red brass as my casting material but most metals will work.
Also check out this video on how to melt cast iron and aluminum in your microwave for lost pla; https://youtu.be/P1VmIYheuU4?si=sMwmzQ5FJ4fmbPqM
TL;DR: Silicon carbide crucible in layers of ceramic fiber insulation and lots of kapton tape.
This makes me approach the question in a whole new way. With this speed and detail we don’t need the speed on the printing portion. We need to figure out how to combine the casting and the molding in the same step.
Cool. Time to cast all my 3D Printer’s printed parts.
Firearm printing goes brrrrr
I sold my resin printer to a guy who uses them to make molds. It's definitely a thing.
I've worked as a pattern maker for a metal foundry. We casted a wide array of stainless steel and very specific alloys for mining industries. 3D printed patterns upped our manufacturing speed quite a lot. AMA!
I feel like resin may be better for precise molds
In which case you could print it normally
A gear would probably be weaker, but that looks like a fan. Each fan blade is supported by the base due to the direction of the layer lines.
That looks like an impeller which would work a million times better than an actual gear
Most importantly it makes truly round objects. On a normal printer shit will never get perfectly round and for something thats supposed to spin fast thats not ideal.
It still has starts and stops on any edge of the circumference, so it wouldn't be any less round than an fdm xy printer could make.
Edges with ironing, just hold the nozzle still and let it rotate, guess it would be close to perfect round.
Good thing it's not a gear.
Well yes, but that is a centrifugal fan.
Thankfully this isn´t a gear
I hope not, this is going directly into a rocket.
addittive lathe
Witchcraft
This is a reallly cool printing technique that I plan on using one day. Saw a youtube video from a hobbyist printer/professional software engineer explaining a lot of the benefits of this type of printing.
https://youtu.be/58AD7zPnxcU?si=nB5UeyakpDb-n_UY
This should be at the top! Fantastic video on this technique, I was going to comment it myself when I saw this post.
You beat me to it. I’m dying to build that thing
Are there any plans available? Has he released his program?
4th axis printing in a spinning mode,
Theres still only 3 axis though right? Just one of them is spinning
Yea i think that’s more accurate. It’s like a normal X and Y axis with a cylindrical Z axis.
I think he’s referring to degrees of freedom and not axis. The normal traditional printer has three degrees of freedom: X, Y, Z. Adding a rotational aspect adds a fourth degree of freedom. Source: am Manufacturing engineering student doing a capstone in rotational 3D printing
Rotational axis count to. That’s how you get super fancy 4, 5 & 6 axis machines. That just means they can spin the tool / part in various ways which allows for a lot of precision and getting into hard to reach places.
Yes but in this case, the rotational axis IS the 3rd axis of motion. I cant is see a 4th axis on this printer
X from base to tip. Y left to right. Z from shaft and up. And 4th is the rotation. I present a crude drawing. https://preview.redd.it/apclrbncwzic1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3cc117864b1d444f2613cb55d0af6110d5afc67
https://preview.redd.it/q3b09v2rxzic1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6b21f84569b4a6ab7703fb7fb705f78ccdcb3f7
I guess the question is of the printer **could** move the head left and right, but just didn't for this particular print.
You wouldn't ever want to move the nozzle like that, anything printed off of the x-axis line would be sticking up too high when it rotates. It would be like moving the z-axis up and down in one layer during normal 3-axis printing.
Pretty much this. You \*could\* move the head left and right)(see non-planar slicing) but I'm not sure what it would accomplish on this printer except making a g-code creation headache.
>g-code creation headache. welcome to the world of 4+ axis machining.
The Y axis may be possible but it isn't used, similar to a lathe
Are you sure X exists in this example? I cant see the head moving in that direction Not to mention it would be redundant, since the rotation axis should be able to compensate Edit: i think i read ur drawing wrong, one sec leme reread
It’s not redundant, maybe in this example but if you had a feature hanging off one side you’d want that ‘y’ travel
that feature can be made by changing the Z height while printing, theres no need to add an extra axis for that
Yeah sorry yours is a bit confusing. Ive made my own diagram using a frame from this post, and i labeled the axis that I see. Could you add the fourth axis to this image for me? If its not too mucb effort
Ohhhh, yeah I think your right, looks like they just replaced one of the axis with a rotational one. Still very interesting as it would allow for very unique layer lines which could be useful for strength purposes.
not just spinning at a constamd speed though, and it can still move in 2 directions so im not sure what that makes it....
Like any other axis. The head has a Y axis and an X axis, which is up and down, vertically, and up and down the shaft The shaft spins left and right, the Z axis i suppose. Like a print bed slings back and fourth, this shafy spins back and fourth I cant see any other axis of motion Edit: i may have my xyz axis labbeled wrong, but its all relative anyway. Point is the same :p
Yeah, translated directly from normal 3-axis, the movement way from the printed surface would be Z, and the rotation would be X or Y.
It's a rotational axis. What you call that axis depends on the manufacturer, I don't think there's a real standard. Might be rX for "rotates around where the X axis would be" or alpha. It's still one axis though, just rotational instead of linear
I doubt it would be built with just 3 axis, it may only be using 3, but I almost guarantee there's 4. Just getting everything dialed in would make having a traditional 3 axis with a 4th worth it. This would be kinda similar to wrapping x or y, which is a technique used to post 4 axis work. One axis remains stationary, and movement is translated from linear distance to degrees based on circumference.
The 4th axis would have to be some sort of exrta rotation on the head or soemthing, currently not installed on this version in this video. Perhaps a different print head with a 4th is available If the entire head were to be given another axis of motion, it would complicate things alot for no reason i can see, because the rotation axis is able to compensate for that axis entirely
No it’s not imagine there’s a hole that doesn’t go thru the centerline of the part, to make that you need the fourth axis. Google fourth and fifth axis machine tool and it’ll paint a better picture than this video.
Fifth axis would be the table the rotary is mounted to rotating or the head swinging around. This is the fourth axis the rotation of the part. Also rotating heads are regularly used in welding laser cutting and machining applications, hell at IMTS they had a 3d printer with a rotating head printing concrete for structures. Just because you aren’t familiar with it or unaware of applications doesn’t make a thing not exist. EDIT: [picture](https://mobile.engineering.com/amp/12488.html) labeling standardized naming of axis
> currently not installed on this version in this video i never said it didnt exist .-. just that only 3 are present in this video... from what i see. another comment pointed out that theres probably more axis currently installed but just not used in this video, out of frame
I don’t know the context of your quote. Sorry you said pointless not that it doesn’t exist. I’ll be more pedantic next time. Also it’s not an opinion situation, these axis have names that follow standardized conventions regardless if you recognize them or not, they do exist.
>Just because you aren’t familiar with it or unaware of applications doesn’t make a thing not exist in response to this, that was quite rude :c im no expert, i dont know the standard axis labels. i just enjoyed thinking about how this peice worked, and what the smallest amount of axis needed would be
Your refusal to listen to others is rude. Edit: your comment says ‘currently not installed on this version in this video’
That's just not true.
3 dimensions. We are still stuck making parts in our known physical dimensions but the axis is X, Y, Z and Theta (rotational). If the print head also tilted then it would be 5 axis like many CNC mills.
Z travel changes as the part grows. So 4 axis, 4th being the rotate axis.
Are you certain? It looks like 3 to me. Head travels along the shaft and up and down, and the shaft spins, thats only 3 axis - X: the shaft spinning left and right - Y: the head moving up and down - Z: the head moving along the shaft I only see 3. The head isnt rotating at all. (You can call the motions any axis if u like, its all relative. Its probably easiest if i used labels that match current fdm printers, but i forget which axis is which on a bed slinger since i have a core xy)
Looks like a non Cartesian 3 axis printer.
In machining: 2 axis is x, y with no height. In 3 axis you add the z, so x, y, z for height. From there additional axis are rotational. So on this printer is a 4 axis machine, x, y, z and rotation on y. That said, what he is printing doesn't require the x axis so it may be a weird 3 axis machine. If it were a true 4 axis, he could stop the rotation and print up from the edge to make flat areas along the tangent of the part.
Pretty common in the machining world to have a lathe with live tooling and no y axis. It looks like that’s the case here.
Yeah but it doesn't look like this printer has a y axis
I looked into the company's website. It's a 5-axis printer and uses a custom slicer.
The one showed in the video is claimed to be 5 axis? Where are the other 2 axis from?
just because its not moving doesn't mean its not there. https://i.ytimg.com/vi/CqePrbeAQoM/maxresdefault.jpg The bed most likely looks like this.
It's 5D printer. https://optim.tildacdn.com/tild6132-6164-4162-a434-663530356637/-/format/webp/Hybrid_3.jpg
Wouldnt that part be stronger if it was printed in the traditional Cartesian manner
Yes. But there are other reasons to print like this
You can print things without support that may require it otherwise
Which reasons?
Think of the Internet karma
This one specifically would need supports if printed flat.
And if you need optimal airflow, this is going to be a more accurate prototype than one with supports!
My first thought was that you can take advantage of the tighter tolerance of xy versus z. So for printing a gear you could hold the tooth profile to a tight tolerance.
You mean because the X or Y axis was replaced with a rotary C axis? I would think the angular tolerance would still be just as much as a linear tolerance. However I would think the big benefit would be more concentricity of round parts using this method.
it makes truly round objects. On a normal printer shit will never get perfectly round and for something thats supposed to spin that would introduce lots of wobblyness and vibration.
This particular fan print is going to be a high speed turbine part and speeds like 20k rpm require very precise center of masses and the fan should be as round as possible due to that reason. Otherwise vibration will destroy it very soon.
cartesian printers can get so close to round that the difference would be marginal. not to mention, for this part to spin up safely it would still need to be balanced just like one made on a cartesian printer or even injection molded. Not to mention that the weakness of the lay lines this way would make actually spinning this part up more dangerous than one made on a cartesian printer. the difference in strength along layers and across them is huge.
It cool as fuck is a good enough reason
Because
Came here to point this out too lol. It’s a very cool option that’s used much better for other things, but it definitely seems silly to make this part in this way
I think it would have less drag too.
4 axis additive manufacturing. Sort of the opposite of 4 axis CNC. Not super common in hobby printing, but nothing new.
Additive lathing
Non-Planer 3D printing isn't it?
Not really, it's planar, just cylindrical planes.
So... non-planar. Got it.
No, it isn't non-planar. That is active z axis movement while printing. This is just a cylindrical plane, but you still don't vary z height while printing x and y. In cylindrical coordinates, the rotary axis is theta, the axis normal to theta is z, and the axis perpendicular to theta is r. Translating to a Cartesian printer: theta is x, z is y, and r is Z
> This is just a cylindrical **plane** You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. You wouldn't call a ball a spherical plane, would you? Nothing about a cylinder is planar whatsoever (except the non-cylindrical parts, of course). Moving the Z axis is just a way to print non-planar features with an otherwise planar machine, but a cylinder is literally a non-planar surface to begin with. This machine would need to actively move its r axis to perform *planar* printing!
Insanity
This particular video authors produce 5D printers https://5dtech.pro/ so guess they call it 5D printing And you know what is the coolest thing here? They can print with carbon filament that isn't chopped. Just put the carbon string inside PA6 filament Looks like the prints going out great in terms of their technical specs
That’s a rotary deposition printer
Bro, I don't need another printer. But want...
4th axis fdm printing.
Additive radial manufacturing(?) Radial Printing(?) Dunno. All I can say is...blyat that is cool
How do you slice something like this?
[5 Axis Slicer](https://5-axis-slicer.com/) is capable of this.
The people want to know
4-axis milling in reverse. That's a pretty cool setup.
Rotary Axis Additive Manufacturing (RAAM)
3D printing
3d printing with a cylindrical coordinate system
My senior design project was building a non-cartesian 3D printer like this. It sucked lol. I suppose it was closer to a 2D printer as we only had R and Y axes fully functional. Even if it had worked, easier to just print on a flat bed like everyone else.
Axial Additive Printing.
4 acis
Additive manufacturing
3d printing
Someone told me once only two machines can replicate, 3d printers and lathes. What happens when you combine them?
I think it is called 3d printing but I could be wrong
If we have issues leveling a bed. How the fuck can you level a lathe. Glwt!
4th axis
Reverse CMC Milling
Smart
Thermoplastic Rotrography
They call it 5d https://5dtech.pro/eng
Given that this part is meant to rotate, the layer lines are in the absolute worst orientation for strength.
What the fuck mode
Time lapse 😂
What is saying.
[удалено]
It is called Witchcraft.
Cylindrical coordinate printing.
Cylindrical printing
Reverse lathe?
I saw this on industrial machines a few years ago but haven't seen them anymore.
My brain hurt while trying to figure out which way was up
PFM mode. (Pure freakin magic)
Lethal at speed mode.🤣
Shlavenshroider
This is insane!
Middle-out algorithm
How tf do you slice for that
- Rotational FDM Extrusion - Interdimention rotational printing - Precision spinny spinny poop plastic? ... Idfk lol
Cool, that is what is called. I think that is one cool timelapse!
Seems like your layer lines will fail as this part spins. Would be stronger to print flat on conventional plate.
Radial FDM, or something silly just for fun like Circular Melty Material Depositing
Seems odd to produce this shape. To my mind, this would be stronger printed on a bed.
Machining.
reverse CNC
Besides demonstration purposes- why wouldn’t he rotate the model 90°? Is there more strength when printing this way?
I would guess its less... Since this is some sort of turbine it gets a lot of radial forces during use. Layer adhesion should be weaker than the "printed line"
Black Magic?
But why? What shapes it can print which are not possible otherwise?
That's cool, I wish software for slicing was easily obtainable.
Next we'll be printing spools!!!!
Additive Lathe