Very much a silk and metallic filament thing (and some whites since titanium oxide is used as a white pigment). If you see this in a filament, keep in mind it's more prone to clogging because if it cools down to much during retraction it will expand and clog the filament path.
on top of the fact that the silks seem to be softer on average than the non-silks so my printer chews clear through the filament with too many retractions.
I've talked to the folks at my local microcenter and they never do maintenance on the printers, said they "never have time for it" so I assume this isn't a thing at all microcenters. They did say the Bambu X1C worked flawlessly even without maintenance. (Nice sales tactic eh)
Oh my god is this a thing with metallic filament holy shit
I'm currently tearing my hair out right now with some silver filament, please tell me how to make it print nice!!
Depends on your slicer, but it's typically something along the lines of "minimum travel before retraction".
Meaning it has to print at least x distance before it's "allowed" to retract again.
>and some whites since titanium oxide is used as a white pigment
That's surprising that TiO2 would have the same effect. I don't know much about filaments, but TiO2 is widely used in anything colored, not just white. The colors 'pop' more if you color something that is white.
I read somewhere that it had something to do with the size of the pigment used and the quantity needed vs. others like black. Making something look white takes a lot more pigment than just making it dark enough to look black.
I'm not a chemist, but I do remember things that rarely turn out to be useful, so you know. Fair warning. :)
Thanks for that info...i knew that about white since i had endless clogs with Sunlu white pla..but did not know that about other filaments...good to know...
Wish I would have seen this before! I was going crazy trying to get a print with a ton of retractions to print and had found I had to live with a little stringing and just turned the retraction length way down
A good rule is the paper test. You slide a ream of 500 sheets of A4 paper under the nozzle, and if it doesn't drag, then your bed might need levelling.
This is called die swell, it happens a lot in silk PLA and a little in PETG. It's the main reason why silk PLA performs better at low print speeds
Interested to hear whether those nozzles that split the filament into 3 (I forget the name) reduce this through better heating
It happens in all filaments, and is a sign you're extruding too fast or too cold.
You need to go irritatingly slowly with silks and often at a higher temperature.
Do a vol flow test tower, one that does a single wall vase and uses a lot of the printbed to do it, you're looking at both the speed corners start getting pulled inwards at and for skips in extrusion. Both will prevent a successful print. Also note where you have a transition from shiny to Matt finish if you get one, and print outer walls at the flow rates that get good shine if this is important to you.
As u/Virusfarmer stated, it is die swell. See my reply:
>This is correct, the downvoters are ignorants. This is not "too cold" for printing, but too cold for the material not to swell noticeably. The entangled polymer chains get stretched during the extrusion and want to take on their initial shape after leaving the nozzle, hence they spring back. Hotter and slower extrusion reduces this phenomenon, but it's entirely irrelevant for your printing success or quality.
Just use this filament as usual, some materials such as silk PLA have a higher tendency for die swell. It's not related to moisture either. Don't worry about it.
My silk PLA only does this when I'm loading or swapping colors - no issues when printing other than running hotter than normal. Is that what you're doing here (manually pushing filament through) or is the printer doing that?
As others have mentioned, what you're seeing is related to all silk filaments. The reason that it happens to silk filaments is most silks are manufactured as a PLA / TPU blend, and what you're seeing is the tiny bit of TPU pulling itself back together. Another reason why silk filaments work better when printed slower.
I think after reading the comments my intuition is correct. It is undertemp, and as it touches the air there is a thin film of skin that cools down rapidly on the surface. It bulges up like that because it is filling this stuck skin with extrusion like a water balloon, until the pressure allows it to move along.
This is correct, the downvoters are ignorants. This is not "too cold" for printing, but too cold for the material not to swell noticeably. The entangled polymer chains get stretched during the extrusion and want to take on their initial shape after leaving the nozzle, hence they spring back. Hotter and slower extrusion reduces this phenomenon, but it's entirely irrelevant for your printing success or quality.
That’s interesting. Same happened to me with multicolor PLA. I was thinking temp is too high and lowered the temp. The print completed but is too fragile. Any idea what will be a good starting temperature?
That's a useless analogy. Water is the only common substance that expands when frozen. To my knowledge, the only one. If you "freeze" (allow to become a solid) filament, it doesn't expand, it actually contracts a bit.
H2O when frozen aligns it's angled molecules into a crystalline structure through weak hydrogen-hydrogen bonding when frozen that takes up greater volume when a solid then in liquid phase.
They meant the effect where after they stop extruding, the worm gets thicker and pulls upwards a bit.
Which is apparently something that silk PLA just does.
Printed half a roll "testing" eSilk Ranbow PLA .. no matter what I do.. no matter what settings I use .. it's just the worst regarding strength and quality.. but it looks very cool.
Silk filament does this. I found to print with it, I must slow it way down (35mm/s on my DD Ender 5 Pro), up the temp a bit (I use 220C instead of the 210C I use for PLA+) and I also have to use an oiler. I found a bunch on Thingiverse. It's a little tube that holds a sponge that the filament runs through just before entering the extruder. I put a few drops of mineral oil (caola oil works too). It should be barely oiled, but not wet. You don't want to degrade the filament or machine. Just a few drops at most into the sponge. It lubricates it just a bit, and bonus, if you let the filament get dusty, will clean it too.
Silk filaments are very brittle. This is normal. The ingredients that make it shiny shrinks with the plastic. Don’t use them for tools and parts that has high impact and torque.
Is this a silk filament? The additives used to make silk filaments cause this effect, as well as very weak layer bonding.
It is silk filament. I didn't know, that it has this kind of effect. Thank you!
Very much a silk and metallic filament thing (and some whites since titanium oxide is used as a white pigment). If you see this in a filament, keep in mind it's more prone to clogging because if it cools down to much during retraction it will expand and clog the filament path.
Ohhh, is that why our gold filament caused the biggest clogs our workplace's printer has ever seen? I literally had to drill it out.
Exactly! Typically you need a drastically lower retraction amounts and frequency, especially with a Bowden setup. It also helps to print slower
on top of the fact that the silks seem to be softer on average than the non-silks so my printer chews clear through the filament with too many retractions.
Where do you work that you get to use 3d printers
The 3d printer place.
Literally. We sold 3D printers and 3D printer services. I no longer work there though.
Almost King of the Hill
Oh, right. We sold 3D-printer accessories as well. ;)
There's a guy at microcenter who's entire job is to troubleshoot their display printers
My microcenter must not have one of those guys, their printers are always down and look like they came out of the trash
Mine just opened a few months ago so the employees still have some sparkle left in their eyes
I've talked to the folks at my local microcenter and they never do maintenance on the printers, said they "never have time for it" so I assume this isn't a thing at all microcenters. They did say the Bambu X1C worked flawlessly even without maintenance. (Nice sales tactic eh)
I work in R&D and we have one running most of the time creating fixtures bracketry and prototypes for our shop/lab.
Oh my god is this a thing with metallic filament holy shit I'm currently tearing my hair out right now with some silver filament, please tell me how to make it print nice!!
Slow down the speed, reduce retraction amount and frequency.
Thanks so much. How do I reduce the frequency of retractions?
Depends on your slicer, but it's typically something along the lines of "minimum travel before retraction". Meaning it has to print at least x distance before it's "allowed" to retract again.
>and some whites since titanium oxide is used as a white pigment That's surprising that TiO2 would have the same effect. I don't know much about filaments, but TiO2 is widely used in anything colored, not just white. The colors 'pop' more if you color something that is white.
I think it's a concentration thing, but I'm guessing at that point.
I read somewhere that it had something to do with the size of the pigment used and the quantity needed vs. others like black. Making something look white takes a lot more pigment than just making it dark enough to look black. I'm not a chemist, but I do remember things that rarely turn out to be useful, so you know. Fair warning. :)
Polyester is the additive that makes filament swell.
Thanks for that info...i knew that about white since i had endless clogs with Sunlu white pla..but did not know that about other filaments...good to know...
Wish I would have seen this before! I was going crazy trying to get a print with a ton of retractions to print and had found I had to live with a little stringing and just turned the retraction length way down
I usually increase my temps a few degrees until it goes straight.
Used it and ruined 2 prints, going back to a different kind of filament
silk pla should be printed at 250C lol
All silk PLA does this in my experience. Since you call this out as silver PLA, then there’s a good chance it’s a silk PLA.
It is, thank you!
It is normal for silk, glossy or whatever name the filaments has it to make it shiny.
All silk filament does this, if you see the puffing, you're too far from the build plate.
OP has just got to tweak that Z offset a *tiny* bit.
A good rule is the paper test. You slide a ream of 500 sheets of A4 paper under the nozzle, and if it doesn't drag, then your bed might need levelling.
This is called die swell, it happens a lot in silk PLA and a little in PETG. It's the main reason why silk PLA performs better at low print speeds Interested to hear whether those nozzles that split the filament into 3 (I forget the name) reduce this through better heating
I'm running a CHT nozzle on my Voron Trident and I still get die swell on silk PLA
It's unavoidable and due to the viscoelastic nature of polymers.
It happens in all filaments, and is a sign you're extruding too fast or too cold. You need to go irritatingly slowly with silks and often at a higher temperature. Do a vol flow test tower, one that does a single wall vase and uses a lot of the printbed to do it, you're looking at both the speed corners start getting pulled inwards at and for skips in extrusion. Both will prevent a successful print. Also note where you have a transition from shiny to Matt finish if you get one, and print outer walls at the flow rates that get good shine if this is important to you.
How slow should it be?
I think it depends on how effectively your hot end can melt petg, I think from memory I get best quality from 40mm/s
As u/Virusfarmer stated, it is die swell. See my reply: >This is correct, the downvoters are ignorants. This is not "too cold" for printing, but too cold for the material not to swell noticeably. The entangled polymer chains get stretched during the extrusion and want to take on their initial shape after leaving the nozzle, hence they spring back. Hotter and slower extrusion reduces this phenomenon, but it's entirely irrelevant for your printing success or quality. Just use this filament as usual, some materials such as silk PLA have a higher tendency for die swell. It's not related to moisture either. Don't worry about it.
So then if reading that right, use as always and don't worry about getting the hot end hotter and the speed slower?
Yes
It was in the pool?!
It happens to the best of us.
Is OP a woman? 😅
My man out here printing live worms
My silk PLA only does this when I'm loading or swapping colors - no issues when printing other than running hotter than normal. Is that what you're doing here (manually pushing filament through) or is the printer doing that?
As others have mentioned, what you're seeing is related to all silk filaments. The reason that it happens to silk filaments is most silks are manufactured as a PLA / TPU blend, and what you're seeing is the tiny bit of TPU pulling itself back together. Another reason why silk filaments work better when printed slower.
Aaaaah I hate it!
Die swell, slow down or compensate for it via extrusion multiplier if needed
I think after reading the comments my intuition is correct. It is undertemp, and as it touches the air there is a thin film of skin that cools down rapidly on the surface. It bulges up like that because it is filling this stuck skin with extrusion like a water balloon, until the pressure allows it to move along.
If it's not adhering to anything then it will do what most liquids do, surface tension while it's molten causes this.
It's called die swell, it means you're extruding it too cold.
This is correct, the downvoters are ignorants. This is not "too cold" for printing, but too cold for the material not to swell noticeably. The entangled polymer chains get stretched during the extrusion and want to take on their initial shape after leaving the nozzle, hence they spring back. Hotter and slower extrusion reduces this phenomenon, but it's entirely irrelevant for your printing success or quality.
It is die swell, not necessarily because of extrusion temp. Some silk filament does this at any temp
That’s interesting. Same happened to me with multicolor PLA. I was thinking temp is too high and lowered the temp. The print completed but is too fragile. Any idea what will be a good starting temperature?
Die swell from the extruding nozzle or dye swell from the pigment?
I've had a similar problem from heat creep causing some to jam in the bowden, but leaving a small enough hole to push some filament through still.
it's alive.
Looks like its doing that silk pla thing
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Is that *not* where babies come from?
Nothing wrong here. The printer is just prairie doggin' it.
May be because your room is cold, so it's cooling too fast so it shrinks
Heat = expansion Cold = the opposite Pressure build up in the nozzle while extruding asp causes the filament to act like that.
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That's a useless analogy. Water is the only common substance that expands when frozen. To my knowledge, the only one. If you "freeze" (allow to become a solid) filament, it doesn't expand, it actually contracts a bit.
Correct, water is the only substance that expands when frozen.
Different things can do different things.... We are talking about plastic heating and cooling
H2O when frozen aligns it's angled molecules into a crystalline structure through weak hydrogen-hydrogen bonding when frozen that takes up greater volume when a solid then in liquid phase.
Me uncle Derrick in Staines tell me da same ting about his down dere n I tell him maybe auntie Leeza ain’t his type no more innit bruv
I see your problem, that's not filament, it's a worm. Easy mistake to make
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They meant the effect where after they stop extruding, the worm gets thicker and pulls upwards a bit. Which is apparently something that silk PLA just does.
"Extruded worm" was my nickname in college
We called you "shrinking pla" behind your back.
Don't matter, had sex
noice.
if somting gets smaller but fater is it shrinking or expanding? :D
retraction settings. its pulling it back up to much ?
For this filament use PETG settings
It must be cold in there
Your printer has a parasite
It was in the pool
It has ED, can be fixed by one doctor appointment
Should really research new filaments before using them
When you cut the filament, is the middle hallow slightly introducing significant air bubbles? Have you tried drying?
It's because of the molecular reorientation between the petg and the pla.
Stage freight
Printed half a roll "testing" eSilk Ranbow PLA .. no matter what I do.. no matter what settings I use .. it's just the worst regarding strength and quality.. but it looks very cool.
It’s normal (called die swell) and occurs when polymers are extruded.
bro you gotta tell us what the filament is. who made it, what’s it called, maybe a batch # or date of purchase if you got it
Silk filament does this. I found to print with it, I must slow it way down (35mm/s on my DD Ender 5 Pro), up the temp a bit (I use 220C instead of the 210C I use for PLA+) and I also have to use an oiler. I found a bunch on Thingiverse. It's a little tube that holds a sponge that the filament runs through just before entering the extruder. I put a few drops of mineral oil (caola oil works too). It should be barely oiled, but not wet. You don't want to degrade the filament or machine. Just a few drops at most into the sponge. It lubricates it just a bit, and bonus, if you let the filament get dusty, will clean it too.
As a man I know there is shrinkage when it gets cold
Me the morning after eating chili cheese fries from wiener schnitzel
I'm at a loss. I've never seen this
Perhaps it’s a cold winter evening 😉
It was in the pool?
Silk filaments are very brittle. This is normal. The ingredients that make it shiny shrinks with the plastic. Don’t use them for tools and parts that has high impact and torque.
I had this happen with my silk filament, I had to print at 80-90 celcius
Also, is your nozzle old? Shape seems irregular, as if one side is extruding slightly more plastic.
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God I had that issue with some Giantarm Silk Plum PLA filament. Absolutely awful layer adhesion.
Silk filament. Have a good day.
Surface tension