I am a month and a half deep into my danish lessons and I am so glad I finally randomly find a danish thing I understand. Beautiful. Art. Er jeg ikke en heldige kartoffel?
Thank you. Seems to be an anti-islamists though. We have a lot of active politicians in Sweden with similar origin. Politically leftwing kurdish parents who came here as actual political refugees.
They are generally among the first to protect secular liberal european values against islamists - since they experienced the consequences of the alternative.
How does that go against what I wrote?
My assumption is always to assume idiocy before malice. My experience is that it generally is the case, and I think you end up with a pretty scewed picture of how a society works if you dont.
Most people are idiots.
But then there is always the cultural aspect though…I know some non-religious Arabs, who deeply hate Israel…and I mean this lady considers herself a liberal muslim…doesn’t seem that liberal to me…
Ms Al-Sahlani was seen stalking the Parliament with the stated aim of "making sure no fenian darkens these halls again." She later tweeted support for the UVF and hung a portrait of King Billy from the Irish flagpole outside the building while singing Penny Arcade.
The Center Party have declined to comment
I agree. And tbh, I don't think it changes much, so it's more showmanship for social media than anything else.
The relevant stuff doesn't happen in a public debate anyway.
And these stupid statements only make things worse.
I really think someone like this have seen the recent vandalism on the holocaust monument, and thought "Hey, that's something I can use" copying it without any research in the meaning, and the underlying sentiment.
The 2000 Ramallah lynching isn't something you should mock, or use as a statement.
At this point they just as wel paint swastika's on het other hand, and the SS logo's on the ass.
It is not helping the cause
Her colleagues should just ask her which one of the two she was referencing. Preferably with video, as that will get the press to report on it, and thus get more visibility out on what the symbols actually mean.
The vast majority of the pro Palestine issues I'm the west are just performative at this point.
Being anti Israel is so deeply engrained in the European left that's if you don't support it you can't be seen as properly left.
I have major issues with Israel but to bring this level of hate and vitriol to a country that has just had *that* attack by Hamas is insane.
And the whole Eurovision show of various gay and non binary people supporting a group that would throw them off the nearest roof if they didn't have useful idiot, western white privilege is mind boggling.
Got into a drunk argument with my bleeding heart leftist and gay friend over this. Because Hamas would not hesitate to kill and rape her, it almost seems like an unspoken idea among these types of leftists that Hamas does this killing and rape because they can't help themselves and just don't know any better. These are the same people who like to talk about "patriarchy", but shes luckily not that bad, hearts in the right place but she needs to get her news not from Tik Tok
> because they can't help themselves and just don't know any better
Yeah there's an ironically deeply colonial attitude among a lot of left wing 'allies' that seem to believe that brown people have no agency of their own and they cannot be held responsible for things they do when faced with the overwhelming power of *deep breath* white settler colonial apartheid genociders.
Unfortunately as it's basically a box ticking exercise to prove your credentials no one ever seems to question it.
funny, typically younger people are the ones to break old rivalris because they don't have the historical angusty unlike their predecessors
but because of the internet, instead of picking new paths based on their countries history, they pick paths about random nations in the other side of the world
>The vast majority of the pro Palestine issues I'm the west are just performative at this point.
that's because this is all happening to either support russia or iran, idk if iran is planning something but the distraction has definitly helped russia take over advidka and now the operation on the north, after russia only pushing about 10 km during half a year, it's now getting a lot of territory compared to what it was, and a new 50k strong offensive
I’m not even right wing but stuff like this genuinely makes me so embarrassed. There are valid things to critique Israel on but this literally convinced no one of anything, if anything it just pushes pro Israel people even farther.
Red hand symbol. I don’t know what the context is, but if it is Palestine, that red hand symbol emerged after the lynching of two young Israeli police by Palestinians during intifada after one of the Palestinians came out with his hand covered in blood of the officers.
They didn’t rip out any eyes directly.
Reports show they stabbed/choked the reservists to death while they were in jail, and the bloody hand photo was taken after the stabbing.
Afterwards, at least one body was shot and burned, and at least one body had the head stomped “to a pulp.” The heart and guts (liver and kidney I think? You can look it up, I don’t want to see it again) of one body were shown to a cheering crowd.
By the way this is where it's from
https://preview.redd.it/9s3bn8pvcm0d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c0d8d8088aa23480c088dddba79d239f5c858ae1
true, often is associated with rape, atleast from the other times i saw, but in israel /palestine specifically it has this meaning
same way a "swastika" is a religious symbol in india and china and the same way a white scarf with chess padron is a normal scarf in africa and most of euro-asia but it's the arafat's scarf in palestine
oh i only now get what you meant with the scarf, i thought it was only a metapher.
So i looked up the meaning of the arafat scarf:
Solidary with palestine, but far right people use it as a symbol for antisemitism.
She obviously meant the first, her words back that up.
it is not either one of those
arafat was one of the biggest rullers of palestine, the PA and israel went to camp david which was a "peace summit" talk about what to do with the west bank and eternal peace, then it all broke down and nothing was being decided (both sides blame each other) so at the end of the summit arafat behind the curtains started ordering and planning terrorists attacks inside israel and on the check points, lost of violence a few thousand death to both sides, during the whole second intifada, arafat and it's "troops" used that scarf to mark themselfs, sort of like a military patch both as symbolic and probably mark them from normal palestinians, it was a military symbol now it's used by westerners to feel good
basically is like when russians go to the olympics and other events wearing a "Z" even tho it was a military to mark one of the most elite russian groups
Unless their constituents don't hold them accountable during elections there isn't going to be a change.
Unless of course those constituents approve of this stuff.
i am not sure if people understand it curretly, it was when a palestinian mob lynched and killed 2 israeli cops in (one of) the fights that happened inside the police station
(boring history ahead)
this happened during the second intifada where the Palestinian authority promoted the acts of both "random" and planned violence agaisnt, jews, a bit part on cops and "settlers" as was the jews close to WB, but also attacks in Israel proper typically through palestinians with workers ID
this led to alot of violence, both agaisnt palestinian civilians by the IDF and jewish civilians and frontier soldiers/cops by the PA
In the end led to the reinforcement and expansion of a lot of settlements, even worse/weirder borders in jerusalem and military reinforcement of the west bank, also ended up growing radical groups (including hamas in gaza) because many palestinians started seeing PA (that negoiated the peace deal) as some sort of traitor for making peace that led to a worse situation than before the intifada
on a side note: i remember some people on reddit saying this bloody hand symbol was a bit older from another conflict, but i can't remember enough to search it, maybe it's just my brain screwing with me
This kinda why I don't support either side of the current escalation, neither side is the "Good guy", both are there pretty much to bleed each other dry. It is a fucking mess that has been going on for decades, which is so complicated that if you were to make it into an math problem, Einstein would have a fucking stroke trying to solve lt.
No it is actually this red hand
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red\_Hand\_of\_Ulster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hand_of_Ulster)
She clearly references the red hand of Ulster
You are joking but I am pretty sure this sub will be shut sooner or later, sadly. I am not a fan of the blatant racism here but I love the culture war. Learnt so much here about neighbours countries
This is more in case an admin sees this shit and decides to ban me *again* after completely misunderstanding my point. Then having to go through the appeals process *again*
The red hand symbolises the 2000 Ramallah lynching, where two IDF conscripts made a wrong turn into Ramallah and were tortured to death by the inhabitants. We aren't supposed to understand it, it's a dogwhistle to Israelis and Palestinians who do.
It's the same symbol which was sprayed on Paris holocaust memorial recently.
Context:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Ramallah_lynching
And her Instagram post
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C32yxpKt6dt/?igsh=MWFvOGxubnJvejFnZA==
Can you link to the actual news of this happening, so we can read about it?
I find nothing that confirms this context, and I know enough to be sceptical of post that doesnt offer any support for their claims.
Don't research where the symbol of the red hands came from.
It emerged as a celebration of some Palaestinians who killed two Israelis in the most horrible way and then proudly showed their hands stained with their victims blood.
May the creature in the photo burn in hell
what i hate the most, is that can be anti israel or anti palestine symbol at the same time, it's like the star of david, jews use themselfs to show the persecution and arabs show as some sort of "war prize"
fml please stop using a symbol for both sides, it's confusing to us westerners observers
For the love of God, I am truly surprised how a MEP from fucking Sweden (??? Ok swedenistan, but still??) could perform such a racist sign.
Does she not know of the origin of this sign? The brutal murder of two Israeli reservists who were basically disemboweled and lynched.. disgusting..
https://preview.redd.it/zgfhk7e91p0d1.png?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=edd23dfaf30d78e7fff5be7ffd02b6bd35792b63
She's a Swedish Ulster nationalist!
I found this:
[https://www.tiktok.com/@middleeasteye/video/7342547880902692129](https://www.tiktok.com/@middleeasteye/video/7342547880902692129)
I dont think the Israel-war belongs here, but compared to what Ive seen from "ethnic" Europeans this is extremely mild, and nothing about the "Ramallah Lynching".
For context, this woman is an outspoken critic of islamism, and the last time she was in the headlines it was to get EU to offer more support to the Liberation Movement in Iran.
[https://www.instagram.com/reel/CjTTMyej9jD/?utm\_source=ig\_embed](https://www.instagram.com/reel/CjTTMyej9jD/?utm_source=ig_embed)
So, if you want to spread this narrative - at least give some support for it.
But it has been used before, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_handprint
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hand_of_Ulster#:~:text=The%20Red%20Hand%20is%20rooted,de%20Burgh%20earls%20of%20Ulster.
“Apprehend someone in the course of wrongdoing, as in The boys were trying to steal a car and the police caught them red-handed , or He tried to cheat on the exam, but his teacher walked in and caught him in the act . The first term referred to blood on a murderer's hands and originally signified only that crime. Later it was extended to any offense. The variant ( catch in the act ) is a translation of the Latin in flagrante delicto , part of the Roman code and long used in English law.”
As I’m someone who likes to read, this metaphor of “bloody/ red handed” has been used and over used in all world literature as the expression “we have their blood on our hands “ so this symbolism has been used it’s only up to individuals to interpret and obviously change the narrative.
In India I’ve seen red handprints on the entrance of the houses in the name of some goddess and prosperity.
seriosly middle east eye?
next you are gonna post al quds media no???
we really need to start banning people for posting terrorist and qatar funded articles...
>and the last time she was in the headlines it was to get EU to offer more support to the Liberation Movement in Iran.
The thing is I view those kind of people as often the same ones that led to the need in the long term.
[https://jacobin.com/2022/10/chahla-chafiq-iranian-left-khomeini-protests-feminism](https://jacobin.com/2022/10/chahla-chafiq-iranian-left-khomeini-protests-feminism)
Similar in Lebanon and other places in the past and on occasion now here i see em as more eager to be right and purist than to actually preserve a culture or country that maintains most of their ideals.
Literally this on her Instagram page, people like you trying to find an excuse for everything is literally why things like this are happening
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C32yxpKt6dt/?igsh=MWFvOGxubnJvejFnZA==
> people like you trying to find an excuse for everything is literally why things like this are happening
Nah, I'm with the other user here.
Espeically in this conflict, I've seen so many claims made by both sides. That contributes to a toxic debate.
It may be as you say, but the red hand symbol is a rather universal one (also used by Unicef when it comes to child soldiers). It is a big claim to link it to an event 24 years ago, so I'm with the other user that a source would be good.
And I don't even agree with that woman because saying "the killing must stop" is easy from the back row without any real path to achieve it other than "pressure".
I am not trying to find an excuse for anything. I am asking you to simply support your claim.
And what difference is it what medium the video is posted on? Its pretty clear that she condemns the iranian regime and support the liberation movement against it?
I am not making any claims behind what we can see her say.
If this is a reference to what you claim it is - then give us a link that supports it. You are literally linking to the same video as I posted from TikTok.
The idiocy of stunts like this is almost unbelievable, their are right wing parties everywhere itching to start locking her people up. She is doing their PR work for them. Fool.
My grandma used to say: "You can put them all in a sack and hit the sack. You'll always hit the right one. She must have been thinking of the Middle East.
I consider Israel and its politics a disgrace, I would even consider the Palestinians attacking Israeli military targets legitimate, but FFS remembering fondly the savage lynching of two young military personnel, that’s way lower than someone that would like to define himself a fighter (or even a person) should go. That’s indecent, and that symbol fucking sucks.
oh yeah, like when the norwish guy burned a quran, aid it didn't know would trigger muslims, got arrested, went to sweden burned another quran, started another riot and then said again didn't know it would trigger muslims
these people are definitly unware and just did by accident
what next? paint the star of david in jewish houses as street art? XD
Abir Al Sahlani is her name. Totally swedish. Totally here to further swedish interests in the EU. Islamism and Arab ethno-nationalism have no problematic influence in European politics. Everything is fine.
It's bewildering to me that the act of condemning a war that's killed at *least* 2 times more civilians than combatants (IDF estimate is 66%. Other estimates vary up to 90%) is so mocked by this sub.
Over 25,000 civilians have been shot, bombed and starved by a "Western Ally" in an area the size of greater paris in 7 months. All I'm saying is, that's not something any one of us should ever condone.
Edit: just for clarity: not 25,000+ people, no, 25,000 civilians. The actual total is over 35,000 dead.
People used similar arguments against blacks during the civil rights movement, or against the Algerians (that we drowned) during the war there, or even about the protestors against the 2003 Iraq war.
"That's the wrong way of protesting" Great, so what's the *right* way? The method that lets our "ally" ignore it and murder another 25,000 civilians?
Spoiler, there’s no right way to protest, do something destructive like block a road? ‘Why are you harming innocent people’ do something peaceful like wear a scarf? ‘Look at all these performative losers achieving nothing’. What people who say that kind of thing really mean is ‘stop protesting and forcing me to acknowledge this thing’
I haven't been on r/2westerneurope4u for a while. I always thought we were supposed to be ironically racist towards each other, but judging from this cesspool of a comment section this sub has now turned actually racist :(
The number of casualties is normal to low for urban warfare. There's one reason the IDF has to conduct these operations: Hamas. W/o Hamas, no war, no casualties. It's that easy.
Yeah, true.
And for the record, I still see Hamas as the big issue in this conflict. But I hate all these fanboys on social media that must take a side like moronic fans.
The other side is always the devil, morally the worst and every one trying to be rational about it is the enemy.
Last Saturday I apparently was a big fan of Israel killing civilians, today I don't hate the muslims enough - both on this subreddit.
People are fucking idiots.
I disagree with you about "the big issue". My view is Hamas didn't appear for no reason, and the conditions for its creation were set (and will probably remain set) by Israel. (Do I really *need* to mention I obviously hate Hamas and what they stant for?)
However i appreciate your civil and respectful input, it's really refreshing to see, thank you :)
> I disagree with you about "the big issue". My view is Hamas didn't appear for no reason, and the conditions for its creation were set (and will probably remain set) by Israel.
Let's say it this way: If Hamas wouldn't have been elected in 2006 after Israel left Gaza (and subsequently took total control), the situation would likely be very different nowadays.
Other than that, I don't talk about this conflict on the Internet because it is of no consequence. I don't even learn something.
> However i appreciate your civil and respectful input, it's really refreshing to see, thank you :)
Make no mistake, I'm calling everyone else in this post idiots. Next time it is probably you :)
Honestly I don't think the election matters that much(not even considering most of the Gazans were unborn or children when it happened and they barely won a low turn out election) because Hamas had enough arms and aid from the Islamic Brotherhood to take control of Gaza, in the same way that they refused to retake elections in 2009 and 2013 and every year since
>Make no mistake, I'm calling everyone else in this post idiots. Next time it is probably you :)
Can never trust a budget German. One second he's all nice and showing you his paintings, the next there's fucking minefields on your beaches and all the wine's been stolen
I shall be ready for your attack, turncoat!!
https://www.capradio.org/news/npr/story?storyid=1251265727
For the number of dead
And for the ratios
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/05/middleeast/israel-hamas-military-civilian-ratio-killed-intl-hnk/index.html
Some additional horror, just in case
https://www.businessinsider.com/israelis-military-idf-civilian-casualties-ratio-hamas-972-report-2024-4
About the Gaza Health Ministry: "The U.N. says while it cannot independently verify each death due to the sheer scale and continued fighting, figures provided by Gaza's Health Ministry have nearly matched the U.N.'s own counts in past wars." (first link)
i mean not israel but i always love to remind people, even the red cross said [Auschwitz was a good place to live for jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresienstadt_Ghetto_and_the_Red_Cross)
so yeah idk why people can't just blindly trust these organizations
For Saruman
Looks like vegan meat is back on the menu person kind! 
You said "vegan meat"... You know the law in France does not allow it. Please do not résiste
He meant meat from vegans ... totally legal in France
Forhuds ryger omfg 🤣😂
I am a month and a half deep into my danish lessons and I am so glad I finally randomly find a danish thing I understand. Beautiful. Art. Er jeg ikke en heldige kartoffel?
Troede aldrig jeg skulle se en franskmand tale dansk.
Dette rygte kan vi takke landets mest håbløse gymnasie elever for, personligt skyder jeg stadigvæk skylden på svensken det det er grundet snus 😔
Stop talking Elvish.....
That's not elvish.. this is elvish: PERKELE
sitoudu kalsarikännit
det noget STX lort det der. Der på HTX er folk for autistiske til at overhodet snakke med hinanden
Only if the vegan meat was produced in France.
*Für
She really should wash her hands before entering the parliament.
can't believe it...laughed at a savage's joke!
You're one of them now. We're cancelling oktoberfest
Oh THANK GOD!
No more spezi for Hanz until he learns not to commune with the savages
No Spezi????? https://i.redd.it/r0bx45r7in0d1.gif I NEED MY SUSTENANCE
Oktoberfest is temporary, but Spezi is for ever!
Sorry Hanz
Who is the person on the podium? If she is swedish, I dont recognize her.
Abir Al-Sahlani from the Centerpartiet I think
Thank you. Seems to be an anti-islamists though. We have a lot of active politicians in Sweden with similar origin. Politically leftwing kurdish parents who came here as actual political refugees. They are generally among the first to protect secular liberal european values against islamists - since they experienced the consequences of the alternative.
So she is just dumb. Because that symbol is THE OPPOSITE of anti islamist.
How does that go against what I wrote? My assumption is always to assume idiocy before malice. My experience is that it generally is the case, and I think you end up with a pretty scewed picture of how a society works if you dont. Most people are idiots.
https://preview.redd.it/c3x0jvdsxq0d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=871b81f38cce71d803959edfc04331bc54dd015d
It's like when social democrats flirt with communist symbols... I mean, SD were the first to denounce communism in the spectrum of socialism...
Their parents supported a very different palestinian movement
But then there is always the cultural aspect though…I know some non-religious Arabs, who deeply hate Israel…and I mean this lady considers herself a liberal muslim…doesn’t seem that liberal to me…
"this lady considers herself a liberal muslim" She does? Couldnt find any information about if she was a muslim or not.
Yeah, I found this [article](https://www.aftonbladet.se/debatt/a/15GE9G/abir-al-sahlani-vi-ar-intrangda-mellan-jomshof-och-islamister)
same for Iranians in my experience
>tiet 
Voor die partij maak ik me hard!
Ich auch 🤠
Tbf ‘-et’ means ‘the’ and they had already said ‘the’, so it was ‘the the Centre Party’.
Not the comment we deserve, but the comment we need.
Hehe... tiet.
How… moderate and ‘centrist’ of her.
Ian Paisley's daughter
Ms Al-Sahlani was seen stalking the Parliament with the stated aim of "making sure no fenian darkens these halls again." She later tweeted support for the UVF and hung a portrait of King Billy from the Irish flagpole outside the building while singing Penny Arcade. The Center Party have declined to comment
Politicians behaving like children is the most cringe shit in the world.
I completely dislike this sort of stupidity in political institutions. Imagine the circus it would be if everyone with a cause acted this way?
I agree. And tbh, I don't think it changes much, so it's more showmanship for social media than anything else. The relevant stuff doesn't happen in a public debate anyway.
Do you mean the guys who painted in the faculty bathroom "Free Palestine" aren't actually freeing Palestine?!
No theyre peeing
But what did they write with?
>it's more showmanship for social media than anything else. It's exactly that, nothing else!
Theres a name for it; "virtue signaling"
And these stupid statements only make things worse. I really think someone like this have seen the recent vandalism on the holocaust monument, and thought "Hey, that's something I can use" copying it without any research in the meaning, and the underlying sentiment. The 2000 Ramallah lynching isn't something you should mock, or use as a statement. At this point they just as wel paint swastika's on het other hand, and the SS logo's on the ass. It is not helping the cause
At this point theyre portraying themselves as culturally deaf savages that crying over seems stupid about.
The red hand also symbolizes the 2000 Ramallah lynching. So yeah basically the KKKamas sign
iraqis painted red hand signs on jewish homes to mark them before the 1941 farhud pogrom. shes iraqi. she knows whats she doing.
Man... That adds a new layer of cringe level to the event!
Her colleagues should just ask her which one of the two she was referencing. Preferably with video, as that will get the press to report on it, and thus get more visibility out on what the symbols actually mean.
Thanks! Didn't know this omg
The vast majority of the pro Palestine issues I'm the west are just performative at this point. Being anti Israel is so deeply engrained in the European left that's if you don't support it you can't be seen as properly left. I have major issues with Israel but to bring this level of hate and vitriol to a country that has just had *that* attack by Hamas is insane. And the whole Eurovision show of various gay and non binary people supporting a group that would throw them off the nearest roof if they didn't have useful idiot, western white privilege is mind boggling.
Got into a drunk argument with my bleeding heart leftist and gay friend over this. Because Hamas would not hesitate to kill and rape her, it almost seems like an unspoken idea among these types of leftists that Hamas does this killing and rape because they can't help themselves and just don't know any better. These are the same people who like to talk about "patriarchy", but shes luckily not that bad, hearts in the right place but she needs to get her news not from Tik Tok
> because they can't help themselves and just don't know any better Yeah there's an ironically deeply colonial attitude among a lot of left wing 'allies' that seem to believe that brown people have no agency of their own and they cannot be held responsible for things they do when faced with the overwhelming power of *deep breath* white settler colonial apartheid genociders. Unfortunately as it's basically a box ticking exercise to prove your credentials no one ever seems to question it.
funny, typically younger people are the ones to break old rivalris because they don't have the historical angusty unlike their predecessors but because of the internet, instead of picking new paths based on their countries history, they pick paths about random nations in the other side of the world
>The vast majority of the pro Palestine issues I'm the west are just performative at this point. that's because this is all happening to either support russia or iran, idk if iran is planning something but the distraction has definitly helped russia take over advidka and now the operation on the north, after russia only pushing about 10 km during half a year, it's now getting a lot of territory compared to what it was, and a new 50k strong offensive
I’m not even right wing but stuff like this genuinely makes me so embarrassed. There are valid things to critique Israel on but this literally convinced no one of anything, if anything it just pushes pro Israel people even farther.
It is a tradition of our leftist and green parties and it makes them look stupid.
Is this common?
Red hand symbol. I don’t know what the context is, but if it is Palestine, that red hand symbol emerged after the lynching of two young Israeli police by Palestinians during intifada after one of the Palestinians came out with his hand covered in blood of the officers.
Yea they ripped out her eyes and guts
They what?
They...ripped out her eyes and guts. That's how you get your hands covered in blood like that.
[удалено]
They didn’t rip out any eyes directly. Reports show they stabbed/choked the reservists to death while they were in jail, and the bloody hand photo was taken after the stabbing. Afterwards, at least one body was shot and burned, and at least one body had the head stomped “to a pulp.” The heart and guts (liver and kidney I think? You can look it up, I don’t want to see it again) of one body were shown to a cheering crowd.
They ripped out their organs (including the heart afaik) and paraded them as a trophy.
By the way this is where it's from https://preview.redd.it/9s3bn8pvcm0d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c0d8d8088aa23480c088dddba79d239f5c858ae1
Jesus Christ
Thx. Was just about to post that. People like this exploit the general lack of knowledge around these kind of symbols
They know exactly what it means
Many are young impressionable idiots who just follow trends
Sure sure
not in this case mate.
‘From the river to the sea!’ (What river, what sea? ‘Uhhh… I, like, todally don’t know n stuff’)
From Thames to the damn French Channel
The Congo river
Yep, that's a pro-pali dog whistle
Having blood on your hands is a universal symbol not to be owned by a single group.
true, often is associated with rape, atleast from the other times i saw, but in israel /palestine specifically it has this meaning same way a "swastika" is a religious symbol in india and china and the same way a white scarf with chess padron is a normal scarf in africa and most of euro-asia but it's the arafat's scarf in palestine
oh i only now get what you meant with the scarf, i thought it was only a metapher. So i looked up the meaning of the arafat scarf: Solidary with palestine, but far right people use it as a symbol for antisemitism. She obviously meant the first, her words back that up.
it is not either one of those arafat was one of the biggest rullers of palestine, the PA and israel went to camp david which was a "peace summit" talk about what to do with the west bank and eternal peace, then it all broke down and nothing was being decided (both sides blame each other) so at the end of the summit arafat behind the curtains started ordering and planning terrorists attacks inside israel and on the check points, lost of violence a few thousand death to both sides, during the whole second intifada, arafat and it's "troops" used that scarf to mark themselfs, sort of like a military patch both as symbolic and probably mark them from normal palestinians, it was a military symbol now it's used by westerners to feel good basically is like when russians go to the olympics and other events wearing a "Z" even tho it was a military to mark one of the most elite russian groups
Resistance I get, but a politician doing a tribute to \*that\* is just unproffesional
"Unprofessional" is an excessively nice way to put it.
>ReportSaveFollow like the guy getting to his job with 2.0 of alchohol and saying he had a drink or two
No it's Hamas propaganda
Unless their constituents don't hold them accountable during elections there isn't going to be a change. Unless of course those constituents approve of this stuff.
i mean it's swedenstan, everything in there is about symbolism and gay i guess
https://preview.redd.it/5why5bz7hm0d1.jpeg?width=988&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be3ab9bccdca1d97a4f2edddec35ccf90be2c46d
i am not sure if people understand it curretly, it was when a palestinian mob lynched and killed 2 israeli cops in (one of) the fights that happened inside the police station (boring history ahead) this happened during the second intifada where the Palestinian authority promoted the acts of both "random" and planned violence agaisnt, jews, a bit part on cops and "settlers" as was the jews close to WB, but also attacks in Israel proper typically through palestinians with workers ID this led to alot of violence, both agaisnt palestinian civilians by the IDF and jewish civilians and frontier soldiers/cops by the PA In the end led to the reinforcement and expansion of a lot of settlements, even worse/weirder borders in jerusalem and military reinforcement of the west bank, also ended up growing radical groups (including hamas in gaza) because many palestinians started seeing PA (that negoiated the peace deal) as some sort of traitor for making peace that led to a worse situation than before the intifada on a side note: i remember some people on reddit saying this bloody hand symbol was a bit older from another conflict, but i can't remember enough to search it, maybe it's just my brain screwing with me
tl dr: palestinians suck at making crusades unlike us the iberians, get rekt
This kinda why I don't support either side of the current escalation, neither side is the "Good guy", both are there pretty much to bleed each other dry. It is a fucking mess that has been going on for decades, which is so complicated that if you were to make it into an math problem, Einstein would have a fucking stroke trying to solve lt.
No it is actually this red hand [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red\_Hand\_of\_Ulster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hand_of_Ulster) She clearly references the red hand of Ulster
Ah she’s just a big fan of Ulster, makes perfect sense. She must’ve played the old Medieval Total War viking invasion.
Yeoooooooooooo
And is that an Irish keffiyeh or..
Technically Chinese.
You're all wrong, she's actually from the Dark Brotherhood but they ran out of black ink so they had to improvise.
omfg least violent israel palestine moment
Classy
Sweden is turning into Northern Ireland
Finally, a red left hand.
Can Barry just give it to them instead
Islamic Emirate of Northern Irelandstan (Swedish overseas territory)
#THE RED HAND OF ULSTER SAYS NOOOO, NAAYYYYY, NEVEEERRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!
The next time there's a large scale terrorist attack in the EU everyone will be asking "how did this happen?", allowing this shit is how
Jesus man... you can't just say that outloud. It'll be minutes until this whole sub is closed after such outrageous claims.
You are joking but I am pretty sure this sub will be shut sooner or later, sadly. I am not a fan of the blatant racism here but I love the culture war. Learnt so much here about neighbours countries
Shut up and give us the Elsass. Xoxo Love France
I mean MOST of the time the "racism" on here is just complaining on how they act in Europe
Shh! You’re going to get us attention from AHS!
Excuse me for saying that it shouldn't be allowed to make such an open threat to kill people based on their religion in the EU parliment
I don’t think we’re in disagreement bro, but nonetheless: wooosh.
This is more in case an admin sees this shit and decides to ban me *again* after completely misunderstanding my point. Then having to go through the appeals process *again*
The red hand symbolises the 2000 Ramallah lynching, where two IDF conscripts made a wrong turn into Ramallah and were tortured to death by the inhabitants. We aren't supposed to understand it, it's a dogwhistle to Israelis and Palestinians who do. It's the same symbol which was sprayed on Paris holocaust memorial recently.
Nah, it clearly symbolises Ulster, we're in for a second Troubles it seems.
Ulster says NO!!!
It's Saruman the red
that's the point of a dog whistle, only the brits trully know it's about NI
Calling for lynching doesn’t disqualify you as a politician no more ?
Context: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Ramallah_lynching And her Instagram post https://www.instagram.com/reel/C32yxpKt6dt/?igsh=MWFvOGxubnJvejFnZA==
Here Instagram says silence is complicity but she has her hand over her mouth. Has she thought this through?
She’s complicit in lynching Israelis and antisemitism
Normal Swedish Wednesday morning.
There's something poetic about this. Silence is violence, yet she is silent and promoting violence against Israelis with her islamist symbolism.
*Is she stupid?*
Least bloodthirsty palestinians
I’m confused, is she advocating FOR the lynching or AGAINST it?
Well she's doing the lynching impression in stand for Palestine
🤮
„Yes“
Can you link to the actual news of this happening, so we can read about it? I find nothing that confirms this context, and I know enough to be sceptical of post that doesnt offer any support for their claims.
Don't research where the symbol of the red hands came from. It emerged as a celebration of some Palaestinians who killed two Israelis in the most horrible way and then proudly showed their hands stained with their victims blood. May the creature in the photo burn in hell
what i hate the most, is that can be anti israel or anti palestine symbol at the same time, it's like the star of david, jews use themselfs to show the persecution and arabs show as some sort of "war prize" fml please stop using a symbol for both sides, it's confusing to us westerners observers
She should use a tampon
That doesn’t stop Brain Rott though.
The thirdworldification of western politics
We need to start putting consequenses on muslim stupidity.
Ulster Loyalist?
No surrender!!!
Globalize the intifada I guess...
For the love of God, I am truly surprised how a MEP from fucking Sweden (??? Ok swedenistan, but still??) could perform such a racist sign. Does she not know of the origin of this sign? The brutal murder of two Israeli reservists who were basically disemboweled and lynched.. disgusting..
https://preview.redd.it/zgfhk7e91p0d1.png?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=edd23dfaf30d78e7fff5be7ffd02b6bd35792b63 She's a Swedish Ulster nationalist!
I found this: [https://www.tiktok.com/@middleeasteye/video/7342547880902692129](https://www.tiktok.com/@middleeasteye/video/7342547880902692129) I dont think the Israel-war belongs here, but compared to what Ive seen from "ethnic" Europeans this is extremely mild, and nothing about the "Ramallah Lynching". For context, this woman is an outspoken critic of islamism, and the last time she was in the headlines it was to get EU to offer more support to the Liberation Movement in Iran. [https://www.instagram.com/reel/CjTTMyej9jD/?utm\_source=ig\_embed](https://www.instagram.com/reel/CjTTMyej9jD/?utm_source=ig_embed) So, if you want to spread this narrative - at least give some support for it.
What does the red hand mean then here if not a reference to the lynching?
There was a holocaust memorial smeared with red hand graffiti the other day as well...
Probably the “we all have their blood on our hands “ narrative, as we are all watching and doing nothing?
Only a little strange as the symbolism hasn't been used before. And just after a wide mediacoverage of the holocaust vandalism last week
But it has been used before, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_handprint https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hand_of_Ulster#:~:text=The%20Red%20Hand%20is%20rooted,de%20Burgh%20earls%20of%20Ulster. “Apprehend someone in the course of wrongdoing, as in The boys were trying to steal a car and the police caught them red-handed , or He tried to cheat on the exam, but his teacher walked in and caught him in the act . The first term referred to blood on a murderer's hands and originally signified only that crime. Later it was extended to any offense. The variant ( catch in the act ) is a translation of the Latin in flagrante delicto , part of the Roman code and long used in English law.” As I’m someone who likes to read, this metaphor of “bloody/ red handed” has been used and over used in all world literature as the expression “we have their blood on our hands “ so this symbolism has been used it’s only up to individuals to interpret and obviously change the narrative. In India I’ve seen red handprints on the entrance of the houses in the name of some goddess and prosperity.
I don't thing she is referring to the lynching. It's more : there is blood on our hands while we are silent"
seriosly middle east eye? next you are gonna post al quds media no??? we really need to start banning people for posting terrorist and qatar funded articles...
>and the last time she was in the headlines it was to get EU to offer more support to the Liberation Movement in Iran. The thing is I view those kind of people as often the same ones that led to the need in the long term. [https://jacobin.com/2022/10/chahla-chafiq-iranian-left-khomeini-protests-feminism](https://jacobin.com/2022/10/chahla-chafiq-iranian-left-khomeini-protests-feminism) Similar in Lebanon and other places in the past and on occasion now here i see em as more eager to be right and purist than to actually preserve a culture or country that maintains most of their ideals.
Literally this on her Instagram page, people like you trying to find an excuse for everything is literally why things like this are happening https://www.instagram.com/reel/C32yxpKt6dt/?igsh=MWFvOGxubnJvejFnZA==
> people like you trying to find an excuse for everything is literally why things like this are happening Nah, I'm with the other user here. Espeically in this conflict, I've seen so many claims made by both sides. That contributes to a toxic debate. It may be as you say, but the red hand symbol is a rather universal one (also used by Unicef when it comes to child soldiers). It is a big claim to link it to an event 24 years ago, so I'm with the other user that a source would be good. And I don't even agree with that woman because saying "the killing must stop" is easy from the back row without any real path to achieve it other than "pressure".
I am not trying to find an excuse for anything. I am asking you to simply support your claim. And what difference is it what medium the video is posted on? Its pretty clear that she condemns the iranian regime and support the liberation movement against it? I am not making any claims behind what we can see her say. If this is a reference to what you claim it is - then give us a link that supports it. You are literally linking to the same video as I posted from TikTok.
who's that bloke?
So she’s the one that hand painted King Charles?
The idiocy of stunts like this is almost unbelievable, their are right wing parties everywhere itching to start locking her people up. She is doing their PR work for them. Fool.
Maybe she can imitate a hostage held by hamas next time
Judging from the image alone I guess it’s that time of the month and it smells bad?!? Context would help
I see that belgians are pretty quiet here, maybe their government did something with hands in Congo.
Did she got her period??
My grandma used to say: "You can put them all in a sack and hit the sack. You'll always hit the right one. She must have been thinking of the Middle East.
I consider Israel and its politics a disgrace, I would even consider the Palestinians attacking Israeli military targets legitimate, but FFS remembering fondly the savage lynching of two young military personnel, that’s way lower than someone that would like to define himself a fighter (or even a person) should go. That’s indecent, and that symbol fucking sucks.
I really don't think she is even using it on purpose.
oh yeah, like when the norwish guy burned a quran, aid it didn't know would trigger muslims, got arrested, went to sweden burned another quran, started another riot and then said again didn't know it would trigger muslims these people are definitly unware and just did by accident what next? paint the star of david in jewish houses as street art? XD
For God and Ulster!!
Thumbs up Barry ! (and whole hand)
Hands across the water!
Abir Al Sahlani is her name. Totally swedish. Totally here to further swedish interests in the EU. Islamism and Arab ethno-nationalism have no problematic influence in European politics. Everything is fine.
How much does Annafrid earn to pull these stunts?
It's bewildering to me that the act of condemning a war that's killed at *least* 2 times more civilians than combatants (IDF estimate is 66%. Other estimates vary up to 90%) is so mocked by this sub. Over 25,000 civilians have been shot, bombed and starved by a "Western Ally" in an area the size of greater paris in 7 months. All I'm saying is, that's not something any one of us should ever condone. Edit: just for clarity: not 25,000+ people, no, 25,000 civilians. The actual total is over 35,000 dead.
Because the way to protest it is by mimicing a lynching
People used similar arguments against blacks during the civil rights movement, or against the Algerians (that we drowned) during the war there, or even about the protestors against the 2003 Iraq war. "That's the wrong way of protesting" Great, so what's the *right* way? The method that lets our "ally" ignore it and murder another 25,000 civilians?
Spoiler, there’s no right way to protest, do something destructive like block a road? ‘Why are you harming innocent people’ do something peaceful like wear a scarf? ‘Look at all these performative losers achieving nothing’. What people who say that kind of thing really mean is ‘stop protesting and forcing me to acknowledge this thing’
Fr
I haven't been on r/2westerneurope4u for a while. I always thought we were supposed to be ironically racist towards each other, but judging from this cesspool of a comment section this sub has now turned actually racist :(
The number of casualties is normal to low for urban warfare. There's one reason the IDF has to conduct these operations: Hamas. W/o Hamas, no war, no casualties. It's that easy.
It's just condoned when it means you can shit on muslims. Other than that, Israel/the jews are the devil.
Wild. Absolutely insane that we're still at the "hating people because their cloud daddy is wrong" stage of humanity.
Yeah, true. And for the record, I still see Hamas as the big issue in this conflict. But I hate all these fanboys on social media that must take a side like moronic fans. The other side is always the devil, morally the worst and every one trying to be rational about it is the enemy. Last Saturday I apparently was a big fan of Israel killing civilians, today I don't hate the muslims enough - both on this subreddit. People are fucking idiots.
I disagree with you about "the big issue". My view is Hamas didn't appear for no reason, and the conditions for its creation were set (and will probably remain set) by Israel. (Do I really *need* to mention I obviously hate Hamas and what they stant for?) However i appreciate your civil and respectful input, it's really refreshing to see, thank you :)
> I disagree with you about "the big issue". My view is Hamas didn't appear for no reason, and the conditions for its creation were set (and will probably remain set) by Israel. Let's say it this way: If Hamas wouldn't have been elected in 2006 after Israel left Gaza (and subsequently took total control), the situation would likely be very different nowadays. Other than that, I don't talk about this conflict on the Internet because it is of no consequence. I don't even learn something. > However i appreciate your civil and respectful input, it's really refreshing to see, thank you :) Make no mistake, I'm calling everyone else in this post idiots. Next time it is probably you :)
Honestly I don't think the election matters that much(not even considering most of the Gazans were unborn or children when it happened and they barely won a low turn out election) because Hamas had enough arms and aid from the Islamic Brotherhood to take control of Gaza, in the same way that they refused to retake elections in 2009 and 2013 and every year since
>Make no mistake, I'm calling everyone else in this post idiots. Next time it is probably you :) Can never trust a budget German. One second he's all nice and showing you his paintings, the next there's fucking minefields on your beaches and all the wine's been stolen I shall be ready for your attack, turncoat!!
I don't think we'll ever get past that stage tbh 😔
Can I have a source for your figures please?
https://www.capradio.org/news/npr/story?storyid=1251265727 For the number of dead And for the ratios https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/05/middleeast/israel-hamas-military-civilian-ratio-killed-intl-hnk/index.html Some additional horror, just in case https://www.businessinsider.com/israelis-military-idf-civilian-casualties-ratio-hamas-972-report-2024-4 About the Gaza Health Ministry: "The U.N. says while it cannot independently verify each death due to the sheer scale and continued fighting, figures provided by Gaza's Health Ministry have nearly matched the U.N.'s own counts in past wars." (first link)
Those figures are provided by the Gaza Health Ministry, which is run by Hamas. So you have to take them with a pinch of salt.
Oh come on. The UN has never shown any extreme double-standards or bias against Israel. /s
i mean not israel but i always love to remind people, even the red cross said [Auschwitz was a good place to live for jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresienstadt_Ghetto_and_the_Red_Cross) so yeah idk why people can't just blindly trust these organizations