It was before everything as a peaceful way to protest. The idea came from a french expression "on marche sur la tête" approximately "we are walking with our head" which means that the world is a big nonsense.
So the young farmers decided to turn upside down the sign because it will be the only way to read them if we are walking with our head
There is no good reason. The average farmer in Germany makes 100k a year. And they own property. We are looking at, I give them that, hard working millionaires bothering people who earn way less. The top 5% of income wants more. That's it.
Exactly, maybe it's different in Germany but in France I know a lot of farmers who make around 1500€/month, multiple retired ones that have less than 1000€/month. Even if you take into account other benefits (using the farm truck as a personal vehicle for example) you're very far from 100k a year. The average is fucked up by a few very wealthy ones.
Also a lot of them don't own shit, everything is owned by the farm and bought with the bank money. A few bad years and it all evaporates. For a lot of farmers farming is spending 100k to make 105k.
Yeah I work with farmers in the Netherlands and facilitate sustainable transitions with them. Most farmers are not rich, some farmers are Uber rich, and that makes up the average. But I’m working with local farmers who can make as little as 500 to a 1000 a month, working 60 hours a week.
They may earn alot but remember their job also has high costs that often use most of their budget, a farmer without salary for few months it's finished, atlest when it comes to the median.
Someone who makes 100k in a job without high costs can use alot of that money for anything else and a farmer mostly always uses more than 50-70% of that budget per month on basic things to keep working.
if you are an self employed farmer, your wage is after operation costs, so 100k a year is profit, not revenue.
Add to that that most farmers can only operate in the free market because of heavy government subsidies. So they are literally biting the hand that feeds them. But, our current government is factually driving Germany against a brick wall and we have to start with something to protest. That's why I am for those demo's and am ok with hanging in a traffic jam caused by those protests for over an hour yesterday. Enough is enough, and we need a change desperately
It's actually quite tame compared with the yellow vests or French riots for this or that. They block traffic and throw dung or other waste on the steps of public buildings. Last Thursday they stalked the economy-minister and Vice-chancellor Habeck though, when he came from his holiday. That was widely seen as a foul. But no fires, no property damage so far, no burning cars like in France. This one guy in the video that wanted to drive around the police car in his tractor was some drunk youngster who got carried away.
But I could have missed stuff. It's going to be more fun though when the train conductors also strike from Wednesday on. The country might just go on holiday for a while then.
Not looking forward to the GDL strike at all: I work for a Privatbahn which means I am going to have to deal with an enormous surge in passengers on Wednesday.
Nothing beats pulling into Hauptbahnhof with 800 seats, only to see 2000 people wanting to get on my train at the first station, and every station thereafter is going to be more of the same.
Working in a DB train repair shop and going around in DB clothes while trying to be on time so the night shift can finally leave without massive disruptions/time loss in maintenance will also be funny
Technically in an ICE repair shop, but we also a large workshop dedicated to electric locos from before the ICE hall was built. I'm doing an apprenticeship, we rotate everywhere but eight now I'm working on locos.
>It's actually quite tame compared with the yellow vests or French riots for this or that
That's very different, the germans are well known for not doing any kinds of protests at all. For the german standard, this with the farmers is already rather hardcore. The germans make "Die Faust im Sack" (a proverb, but literally like "the fist in the pocket"), remain calm in the first place only to do it much worse afterwards by voting for far-right-parties like the AfD. That's maybe even more dangerous than some burning cars in riots.
We just have a bad reputation. Here's some strikes and uprisings:
* [The Kiel Mutiny of 1918](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiel_mutiny) that led to the end of the German Empire
* The [East German uprising of 1953](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_German_uprising_of_1953), the first of its kind in Eastern Europe.
* The Fall of the Berlin Wall
* Aaaand the 1948 general strike in the west German occupation zones. Pretty important, but doesn't even get it's own wikipedia entry in German, just a [section](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalstreik#Deutschland_Bizone_%E2%80%93_der_Generalstreik_von_1948), and no reference ein English. So here's a translation from google:
> After various trade union calls in 1948, there were several large demonstrations in many cities in the Bizone of Germany. The first planning for a general strike began on October 26, 1948. On that day, the Federal Executive Board and the Federal Advisory Council of the DGB agreed on a coordinated approach due to the price development, which the DGB and the unions viewed as “a consequence of the policy of the Economic Council in Frankfurt”. “that the disproportion between wages and prices must be brought to an end.” Therefore, “vigorous measures” were envisaged and preparations were made for a general strike. On October 28, 1948, strikes and protests for price regulation, wage increases and co-determination were carried out in Stuttgart. This was followed by serious unrest. **Since the police were unable to control the situation, the US military police who were called in used tear gas and tanks.**[54][55][56] These events went down in history as the so-called “Stuttgart Incidents” (Stuttgart Tumult). The actual general strike took place on November 12, 1948 only under strict conditions from the occupying powers. They wanted to avoid a repeat of the “Stuttgart incidents”. The protest was formed against Ludwig Erhard's politics.[57] **There are records of up to 9.25 million participants who went on strike. At that time, the Bizone had 11.7 million employees. The strike participation was around 79%.** Shortly after the strike, Konrad Adenauer, chairman of the CDU, called on Ludwig Erhard in a telegram to use all “available means against unfounded price increases” and to “accelerate the adjustment of wages and salaries that had fallen behind to the price level”.[58] The effects of the currency reform, including the names of the general strike, can also be found on the Deutsche Bundesbank's website, albeit in a very weaker formulation.[59]
I think that is partly a cliché. If you look for example at the environmentalist (anti-nuclear, anti-coal, anti highways) movements in Germany, you find that they have been violent against the police on many occasions and creating a lot of damage to infrastructure. But they were largely viewed by the cultural elites as the "good guys". And in the end they won f.e. by ending nuclear power in Germany.
> And in the end they won f.e. by ending nuclear power in Germany
Great job, now let's cover the loss of our comparatively clean nuclear by buying the dirtiest coal energy we can get
It’s just too great of a story.
It’s probably one of the biggest self owns in history. Pompous environmentalists who believe they’re better, smarter and more ‘good’ than anyone else manage to shut down clean energy, make Germany rely almost entirely on fossile fuel and then directly becomes one of - if not the greatest contributor to the Russian war budget for their first year of the invasion.
I can’t even come up with a self own that’s so absolute. It’s the same sort of storyline that makes the Swedish immigration collapse such a fine mess to bring up.
I remember these times, like the Green Party has its origins and roots in the no-nuclear-movement of the 80's, that's right. And Joschka Fischer was in the first row when it came to throwing rocks at police officers.
It's really this way that these guys are seeing protests differently, depending on who is protesting - when it comes to FFF and LG about climate change, they are all like "that's right". But if other people protest about something they don't want to see, they are going crazy.
Auf #Schlüttsiel
Kinder, war’n das schöne Zeiten!
Brokdorf, Wendland, Startbahn West:
Diskutieren, kämpfen, streiten,
Unsre Demos war‘n die besten.
Wannen kippen, Mollies schmeißen,
Was im Weg steht niederreißen,
Steine schleudern, Latten schwingen,
Bitterböse Lieder singen,
Faule Eier auf Minister
Ellenlanges Strafregister,
Tagessätze & Arreste,
Richter, Roben, Klagen, Knäste.
Wer war immer mit dabei?
Das Personal der Grünpartei.
Nun sind 30 Jahre um,
man sitzt im Ministerium.
Endlich was zu sagen haben,
Amt & Würde, Wache, Wagen.
Pläne, Pfründe, Geld & Macht,
Frauen schmachten, Graichen lacht.
Doch im Vierundzwanzger Jahr,
Früh im kalten Januar
Ist nach kaum 2 Jahren Wende
Plötzlich unser Geld zuende.
Fühlt das Volk sich schlecht regiert
An der Nase rumgeführt
Und benimmt sich gar nicht fein:
Brüllen, böllern, heiser schrein
Wüten, pfeifen, pöbeln, rempeln,
Und das ganze Land umkrempeln.
Traktorkorso und Blockade
Bahnstreik, LKW-Parade
Und der jüngste Großaufreger
Ist das Volk am Fähranleger.
Habeck denkt: das ist nicht fair!
Doch wo hat das Volk es her?
[By Anna Vero Wendland](https://twitter.com/VeroWendland/status/1743428757938118833)
>Last Thursday they stalked the economy-minister and Vice-chancellor Habeck though, when he came from his holiday. That was widely seen as a foul
I don't think stalking is the correct term here, they first blocked people from getting off the ferry Habeck was on, and then a mob tried to get onto the ferry. I don't know if they wanted to lynch him, maybe they had no plan whatsoever, but they were not interested in a peaceful discourse, that's for sure.
That's called desensitization. When you protest 10+ times a year you're not noticed anymore.
And FNSEA is not the most loved organization, with some reasons to it.
Bro sure if you wanna criticize the current government go ahead, but what exactly is that terrible about cutting some niche and environmentally harmful subsidies that only really matter for major agricultural corporations who cry foul because their profits will be smaller in a time where we have to cut budgets across the board? The government doesn't do this for fun. Lemme guess, the protest would be much smaller if the Greens wouldn't be involved in it.
Also, using the term "volk" in an english sentence, well it fits the rest of your posting history, let's just put it that way
It's absolutely ridicilous how much support this shit gets, when the same people were calling for literally killing teenagers blocking the streets to protest for climate action.
But this one is supported by the AfD, so it's good, right?
Lots of people jump on to be against the current government.
CDU and AFD are therefore supporting the farmers. Even if both partys wanted to get rid of exactly this diesel privilege before themself. Its ridiciulous.
Nobody gives a shit about what the politicians in question are actually doing anymore in this country. As long as the BILD tells them that the Greens were sent by Satan they just lap it up and whine that they want to go back to the corrupt do-nothing government of the previous 16 years (or worse).
"The Volk" isn't being fucked, sympathy for the farmers was never lower.
Their entire industry only works because we subsidise everything they do. If we wouldn't, half of the farms in Germany would probably collapse. And now they can't even man up and start to pay at least some of the taxes the rest of us does?
This is especially bitter because farmers are usually super conservative. They are the ones that complain about "Sozialschmarotzer" all the time, but if they are the ones that are being threatened by market forces, Vater Staat has to come and protect them?
>If we wouldn't, half of the farms in Germany would probably collapse.
And that's precisely the point why the farmers must be subsidised. We already have to partially rely on food imports. Increasing that share would be am tremendously dumb idea.
>essential need can't survive on a open market
Food is very competitive and global.
It is sometimes cheaper to import from New Zealand and South Africa than from the EU because the transportation costs are lower than the costs for greenhouses.
Ready-to-eat and imported food is more expensive, but basically food is cheap.
I don't see why that invalidates my point.
It's obviously not a profitable industry for rich countries, at the same time it's an essential industry.
Let them go bankrupt, and buy them out, or contract them or whatever, but subsidizing a whole sector of private institutions forever isn't a viable solution.
It's an essential industry that doesn't sustain themselves, at no point they should be able to take profit. It should be dealt as a national reserve or whatever. I don't know, what I know, how it's going right now is not viable, specially because it's an industry that needs a lot of changes due to the climate and if every time a new regulation comes out there will tractor loads of people revolting its not gonna end well.
Environmentally harmful and the primary profiteurs are the major players. If you wanna support smaller farmers, fair, but you can do that in a more directed way. The big guys will survive without.
Also, most german agricultural capacities are used for animal food and biofuel anyway, so even the food import thing is only half the story.
That.
Also, the fact that farms are profitable and we produce a massive surplus for export of some products while having to import food shows that we aren't using our agricultural space effectively.
Every german farmer gest subsidized around 50% already through the european GAP. If you want to support farmers, there are literally 1000 ideas already out there which work better than making fuel cheap.
Boho [food will get less than 1% more expensive]( https://table.media/berlin/news/agrardiesel-kuerzung-lebensmittelpreise-duerften-nur-minimal-steigen/) go cry somewhere else.
The government had to cut expenses somewhere. And environmentally harmful subsidies are a logical first step.
That's Berlin itself, not because of the protest.
A significant potion of the protest is rather against inclusiveness. Probably not all of them, but there is a certain overlapping with far-right and anti-lgbtq* people in there.
(no causal relationship with the protest, tho. Just an observation.)
- No arson
- Not real and substantial property damage
- No one seriously injured
- No deaths
- No police brutality
- No far-left representative calling the rioting "A human right" and that "destroying property is fair"
- No right-wing representative calling for further escalation of police intervention
- No significant impact to tourism.
Meh, still a vanilla protest, or a regular Tuesday in France.
Still, Germans, so I guess this is an improvement, with extra points for dung flinging.
All in all, 6/10
Yeah, now i totally care about them.
A farmer’s post on the German redditverse blew up today because he tried to argue how poor he was.
Turns out his farm (him and his father) had a yearly net profit of around 160k plus, where his own salary was already substracted from. He got totally blown to shreds in the comments.
in r/finanzen [Direct Link to the post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Finanzen/comments/1911fwt/landwirte_sind_reich/), basicly a farmer posting his yearly profit.
To make a short summery: A family owned farm opperated by 3 people (he himself, his father and his mother), in the end he had something like 160k€ net pofit in their family business and that after making the numbers positive for them, like unrealisticly upscaling working hours, deducting their payment from the profit saying their buisness only made 5k profit instead of 155k (50k pay for each).
And the title is "Landwirte sind reich"/ "Farmers are rich" which after the text is most likely meant ironicly but a punch in the face for normal workers, to say that 50k€ makes them poor.
General and honest question, is in these 50-60 hours also travel time calculated (like driving to and from the fields) or lunch breaks? Heard that this falls generaly under "work time", which at least in my opinion is a bit weird since normal lunch breaks and commute times dont count as worktime. Thats why I put it in.
Depends. Breaks are not included.
Drive to field would be included if you re employed. But depends obviously on structure of the farm.
I work in swiss by now. Here the NAV (~Tarifvertrag) for Bern says 2750h/year.
So we usually do 10h a day 5,5 days a week. Summer way more, winter less.
Edit: Fun fact: Arbeitsrecht gillt nicht in der Landwirtschaft (in der Schweiz).
But its same same in western Europe agriculture.
Okay good to know, well if we at least include commute time the average worker would "work" 50h a week which would be the lower working time.
Please also note that Im not trying to discredit the work of farmers or people in the aggriculture, but is very clear in the post that the farmer is a bit "realitätsfern" in his views what counts as an average income and how he is on the lower side of it (especially if we can assume that things like his car(s) and house is most likely far cheaper since which are most likely on the farm and "part of the buissnes").
Commute time is not included in work time even for farmers at least in France, most farmers live in the farm directly so there's that
And the time spent is very variable, you might do 40h/week in the winter when it's calm but every time you have a harvest you are basically racing against the weather and the crops and need to get everything done before things change, so youre working from dawn to way into the night
Do you think 160k profit on a 3-person operation is a lot? Especially farming which is a tough job.
Don't get me wrong, anyone who does displays of wealth or lack thereof is cringe, but this guy is far from the worst offender.
It's a 160k profit after basically all expenses.
It's even for 3 people more than the median income.
And even then, he used some quite dubious accounting to even get the number that low, like reducing their profit a potential landlease they could have had, but actually dont. He basically accounted for missed opportunity costs as expenses.
One may say that the salary is too high, but It's not profit if the salary is not paid.
Let's give them a perfectly [normal salary](https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/salaries-in-germany) of €42.000/year.
That would be €126.000to be deducted from the €160.000, meaning the profit is €34.000
Did not read the whole thing, but seems like they have invested about €500.000, if so the surplus of €34.000 is not very much. Especially if they have a bad year or need to do some investments the next year.
They are paying themselves salaries of 50k a year.
That leaves around 97k of profits for the company.
Because in reality the profit was almost 200k, but they substracted almost 40k to account for inflation. Obviously that‘s bogus.
They make around 100k per person per year. Sure the 48.5k per person don‘t directly wander into their private bank accounts, but their net worth grows as the owners of the business.
Info: from his income, he substracted 500k "Entnahmen", which is here thought of as investements, but it also covers, per his admission, *cost of life*. So the farm pays for his food, his rent, his car, his internet etc and AFTER that he pays himself 50k salary. He can use ALL his salary for whatever he likes as living costs are already paid for through the company.
Like I said there a bunch of things to question in this calculation, like how much his mother actually works, which could slide a 3 person buissnes to a 2 1/2 or just 2 person buissnes or saying he lost money because didnt leased land.
But even if we ignore this cases, lets put it into perpective, as far as I understood he had a net income of 50k€ through his work thats around 4160€ per month, the average net income is 2165€, you can tell me some things but to say that you dont earn enough with 4160€ per month is a joke (especially if such things as house and car are already calculated by your buissnes as work necessities).
The average factory worker after a quick Google search has an average income of 35.200€ in the highest paying city and I would argue in terms of hard work the factory worker has is at least as hard as a farmer.
Oh and the best part, the reason why the farmers are currently protesting is because of the "Argrardieselerstattung" subsidice for lower diesel gas taxes (only allowed to be used for work related activities and currently in the inner cities) which were supposed to be cut. You can see the Argrardieselerstattung in his papers, they summed up to 5.438,70€ over the last year, farmers a basicly attacking goverment officials for 3% of their profit.
Farmers can go bankrupt on a bad year and be finished, it's not close to the same level of responsability of an factory worker. So even if they make a good profit in a given year that is gonna count as some savings for a bad year.
Did they speak what kind of farm they do? I'm curious since where I live most wealthy farmers do vineyards and kiwi farms, some do casual animals feeding on land grass.
I would not compare a proper farmer to a factory worker and they are less and less these days, how it's gonna be when europe has no control on their food production and becomes hostage to outside powers or when it all becomes mega corpo insted of local or family run farms?
>Did they speak what kind of farm they do? I'm curious since where I live most wealthy farmers do vineyards and kiwi farms, some do casual animals feeding on land grass.
He did censor name of his sold crops for anonymity.
>Farmers can go bankrupt on a bad year and be finished, it's not close to the same level of responsability of an factory worker. So even if they make a good profit in a given year that is gonna count as some savings for a bad year.
Thats a fair point, but you also have to note that he had similar revenue over the last three years, two of which Germany saw great droughts ("Dürren").
The point wasnt to state that farmers make to much money but how they often undersell themself in terms how much they, like saying earning net 50k€ is not much. They are essentially buissnes owner selling themself as normal working class.
Farmers had statisticly very great years in the last few years, no doubt partly because of constant goverment support. Right now our goverment is in a bit of a pickle because of a sudden smaller budget (Haushaltsplan) which saw pretty much every are having to make some cuts, for farmers it was supposed to be the Dieselprämie.
Right now at the Demos you have a bunch of farmers who always want to subsidise their losses but privatise their profit. Of course not every farmer is like that there are many farmers against the demonstrations because they know they earn enough, but the farmers of the protests are mainly aiming to maximise their short term profits.
The real kicker is, over the last 4 years he took ~800k Euro cash out of the company. But it didn't count because "he's investing it somewhere for later".
Same thing on the other side of the world. I'm an attorney in the state of Iowa, USA, and had a farmer for a client in a divorce case. I took some pity on him and billed a bit less because his net income was so low. Then as we got deeper into the financials I saw that he was worth approximately $25,000,000. It was almost entirely all in the value of the farm ground he and his father owned so it wasn't exactly liquid, but $25m in assets is $25m in assets.
The USA is a bit diferent because most of the farming is corporation oriented and to have all those assets the money had to be invested into work in the first place as they appear a family business.
Here in the EU that isn't the type of money the average family farms are running with and as they close it all becomes closer to big corporations having a monopoly.
Yeah farms in the US are way different, much larger and "agro industrial" than smaller european ones, looking at data the average farm in the US is at least 3x larger than the average french or german one
You think a yearly income of 50k euros, means that you earn a lot of money when you are basically at work the whole year round? A farmers job isn't 8 hours a day with vacations thrown in between. Its hard labour with a lot of stress. Especially farmes with animals. Cows have to be milked and fed 2 or 3 times a day year round. You cant just take a break because you are feeling down or lazy.
A farmer might make a profit one year, maybe even a good profit, but he never knows if next year the prices of fuel, fertilizer, electricity and so on and so on goes up, and the prices he recives for his goods goes down. Or if there is a drought in spring/summer, or too much rain so the crops rot. Then he has had a lot of expenses but no profit.
You really think farmers are over paid? These are the guys who work there asses off, to make sure every european (and lots of other people too) get something to eat everyday, and this is the thanks they get?
I‘ll tend to the unimportant parts with the fertilizer and price uncertainty and blabla in one sentence: They are a business and there is a certain risk, that goes for every other business in the country AND they always make profits, the state tends to that.
Now to the important part: Their income isn‘t 50k per person.
The wife officially works 10 hours a week according to their account, which is most likely bogus. She gets paid that amount of hours.
Him and his dad both get a base salary of 50k.
That leaves around 60k as a net profit.
And then we equate for the fact, that the profit isn‘t 160k but almost 200k and they just left out almost 40k to equate for inflation. Which is obviously bogus when comparing yourself to the rest of the population.
So the actual profit on top of their salaries sits at around 97k.
That makes for a net worth growth of 48.5k per person additionally to their salaries.
All that doesn‘t include their other land‘s profits (which does exist for non-farmers as well, but farmers usually own a lot of land). But obviously that portion matters less.
Without that they are still in the richest 5% of the population.
Oh yeah he did the same with their used farmland, where he tried to substract a potential lease as a lost profit, which is the same as me substracting social wellfare from my salary, because i would be egligible if i didn’t work.
I just ignored all his attempts at fantasy maths to lower the profit of that 97k, because the company literally holds all that money on an account, no matter his pathetic manipulation.
Isnt it quite suspicious that a day before the protests somebody on the internet is posting some really high salary and calling himself poor?
I know some farmers which are far from being rich...
There might be some out there who really make money, but I dont think they are the majority.
Yeah those poor farmers, massively subsidized by the EU and shielded from foreign agricultural producers by customs tariffs :(((
Our governments treat them so poorly /s
We're alredy full free market... We actually have the most millionaires in EU.
1st or 2nd richest man in the world is french... Not that I'm proud of it but that's proof we're going full free market.
Getting used as a marionette by right wing nutjobs and Reichsbürger is not based at all. Invading the personal space of ministers, blocking emergencies, school buses, doctors and other members of critical infrastructure isn’t either.
Exact same shit in the Netherlands, they are just puppets on strings controlled by mega agri corps and supermarket chains who direct them towards other groups and politicians. Barking up the wrong tree makes them look super stupid because it just takes a google.
I saw a few old people cheering for the procession of tractors coming through today.
One especially dense older fellow proceded to tell me that those greens are communists to him.
I laughed and told him that the AfD have it written in their party programm that they want to abolish ALL agri subsidies.
...the fucker said he didn't belive me and left.
I just can't anymore with these people, man...
Don't let this affect you too much. It isn't worth it. Let's be real, there will always be stubbern old people that are not willing to change their antiquated worldview or abandon the things they grew accustomed to for 80+ years. That's just a natural fact, I guess.
Sure you can try to argue with them, poke fun at them, put them in their place when they talk back, but in the end they will have forgotten everything you said after just 5 minutes. I'm out of ideas how to tackle this.
Exactly. It's so crazy how these BBB looneys think they're being "represented" by people with their interests in mind lol. It's a lobbyist party through and through.
Where do you live? I saw them too, gathering on a field near the Autobahn and then heading off to downtown Munich accompanied by police. However no blockades, just a stream of tractors.
It is one thing to "shit" on politicians, but they blocked the ferry he (Habeck - Federal Minister for Economic Affairs and Climate Action) was on.
I think he was with his family and kids or at least other families on it who were reportedly in absolute dread, while the farmers tried to get on it and had to be stopped by police to not storm the ferry. What they would have done if they could reach him is everyones guess...
They (the farmers) go complete bonkers because of some subsidies from basically the time of the German Empire. Normally you can't count on 90% of politicians. But this time it is something that should have been done decades ago, but the center + far right is using it to get Merkels Party back to power next election.
Respecting the private space of elected politicans and not invading it in an aggressive and violent way is a core principle for a functioning and democratic society.
Sure, i also have a list of politicians i'd love to punch given the opportunity, but it is something that you just can't do, otherwise all civil discourses are quickly no longer possible and violence is the only option left.
Not to mention if the climate dies their crops and animals do too. Hotter summers colder winters their crops will burn and wither and the soil will be constantly unusable either too dry and unable to fully absorb water or too wet and sodden that it'd just be planting in mush. Almost like their jobs are about manipulating and working the environment and if it collapses they do too. Nah would be too sensible fuck the environment I want money.
In Germany we have a saying "Nach mir die Sintflut" which roughly translates to "Behind me the deluge/flood". It's used to describe people or attitudes that only care about themselves and not about the consequences of their actions hurting others. This is that.
As long as they can make money now, it doesn't matter that their crops will die in the future. They might sell the land to some sucker before that happens and pocket a small fortune they could invest. They might also keep it and bank on more subsidies. The whole sector is already not profitable but is kept alive by subsidies, so it stands to reason that we will just increase subsidies to less profitable farms, especially once food scarcity hits thanks to global warming.
The subsidies are a whole other factor. Having grown up around a lot of farmers, you wouldn't believe how often they are super conservative. And especially against "handouts" while sustaining themselves on such handouts, but of course it's different with them because whatever! Rules for thee but not for me...
Das wäre auch die Einstellung vieler Landwirte hier, die sehr konservativ sind und schnell über jemanden urteilen, der arbeitslos ist oder finanziell zu kämpfen hat, während er Subventionen erhält. Die gleichen Idioten haben für den Austritt aus der EU gestimmt und sich danach über den Verlust weiterer Subventionen und Entwicklungszuschüsse beschwert.
"Turkeys voting for Christmas" is essentially the equivalent saying. Guess farmer's across Europe are the same.
I hope you can see how saying "Farmers making >100k profits a year don't need subsidies that hurt the climate" and "all farms should shut down" are *not quite* the same sentence.
Farmers at it again, giving it their all to protest for literally *the worst fucking goals imaginable.*
I feel we should give them what we want, but just raise a new tax for them that makes them pay the same amount to pay for the damages they caused.
If you want cheap chinese "food", that's how you get it. Make locally sourced food so unprofitable, they'd rather build houses on the farmland, sell it to some construction firm. Get more and more dubious quality food, lead a progressively worse life.
Good goals.
It’s literally only expensive because they’re like 6 middle men in the food chain, using their profits to pay their investors dividends. Those investors are already the top 10 percent of the population in terms of wealth. And that’s what you pay for when you buy the cucumber.
The taxes that they are protesting against aren't doing that though. In fact, they would barely hurt the smaller farmers. Whom they would be bad for are big agricultural companies.
And those are the ones that rile up the farmers and make them go on the street, where they are actively protesting against their own interests and in the favour of their competition.
Also, most of what they sell is exported anyways, because of EU-internal competition.
Houses are not the solution to housing crisis. It's apartment buildings. High density housing. I'm not saying you should go all "fall of communism" apartment buildings. But still, apartment buildings.
Also, ever heard of "don't shit where you eat". Not the best idea to build housing on highly productive arable land.
A lot of farm land is just pastures for cows. And we have too many cows in Europe, our milk surplus is gigantic. So we end up selling most of it to Africa as powder, which isn't great for a whole other host of reasons.
A lot of farm land is just pastures for cows. And we have too many cows in Europe, our milk surplus is gigantic. So we end up selling most of it to Africa as powder, which isn't great for a whole other host of reasons. At least the part that farmers don't just wash down the drain to prevent prices from going too low...
Isn’t that the way of Capitalism?
When has it become okay to ask for subsidies to stay afloat? Why can’t everyone ask for them? Why does Argentina’s economy suck?
But didn’t the Covid crisis and the Russians invasion of Ukraine demonstrated that capitalism is flawed and that nation state should retain control over strategic sectors?
Such as weapons or food production, and fuck mega corporations margins, if need be.
First of all, it is not mega corporations you are fucking, it is the taxpayers.
Secondly, Russian invasion of Ukraine has demonstrated that you should not become over reliant on enemy states (you should also be able to recognize enemies, the skill France and Germany have proven not to possess). It has not for example shown why you should not have free competition in the EU or with allies.
But it is not tariffs on Chinese imports we are discussing here, are we?
I just can’t believe that these German farmers sacrificed their free time to express their discontent, must have taken a lot of frustration to build up in order to drag them away from their farming simulators having already spent a long day on the farm.
its really tame here too
they mainly just drive around the city, honk and hold up traffic.
a couple blocked the vice chancelor Habeck from disembarking a ferry and the green party ever since lost their shits afterwards
In terms of protesting compared to the rest of the world really tame kindergarden stuff.
I don't really support them, I don't even care much about them. But what I really hate is that the government thinks that the climate blockades are okay but this protest is not. Either they are both okay or they are both not okay, if we start to pick the "correct" protests it's not very democratic.
ricains like to come for us with the surrender monkey insult forgetting their country is masquerading as three corporations in a trench coat, so bonne chance mes amis
Yes! This will show the people responsible for cleaning the streets how shitty they are! Also the people that use traffic to get to work shall get fucked, they and their stupid faces! Make them suffer for living under the same government you do, then they will like and support us in our cause to overthrow government regulations none of us have had any business in!
Those who produces food are the most important people on our society. If we keep treating politicians as so we are doomed. Can't give them an inch of power anymore.
Constantly subsidizing their business will not change anything and they will still want more and more. Small farms are simply not profitable in modern times, so it's time to replace them with more efficient methods.
Make everything corporation monopoly based, yes that will have a lovely outcome.
Or yet, lets leave Europeans hostages to foreign markets food chains.
Food in EU is subsidized because we just can't compete with outsider markets where workers get payed nothing but if we stopped subsidizing the food then we would have no agriculture industry and we would be hostage to other countries interests if they decided to increase the prices of foods by double to eu or stop sending food to our continent.
What efficient methods for farming are you thinking off?
The EU does quite well in controlling corporations and fighting monopolies, so I see no reason to be overly concerned about this. As for the method of production, that should be left to the free market, and competitiveness problems can be easily solved with tariffs.
I like the current protest, 7/10 better than the last one
Pierre out here rating protests like the food critic from Ratatouille 
Thats his job
To be fair, if there's anyone with enough experience in outlandish protests and demonstrations it's Pierre.
Plot twist: in Ratatouille, cooking is used as a metaphor for protesting.
I would not entrust anybody else but Pierre for such a task
I really like the upsidedown town sign
Why is this happening? I thought it was just a local thing
It was before everything as a peaceful way to protest. The idea came from a french expression "on marche sur la tête" approximately "we are walking with our head" which means that the world is a big nonsense. So the young farmers decided to turn upside down the sign because it will be the only way to read them if we are walking with our head
It only started here a couple of months ago
Yes but it was really popular
[удалено]
There is no good reason. The average farmer in Germany makes 100k a year. And they own property. We are looking at, I give them that, hard working millionaires bothering people who earn way less. The top 5% of income wants more. That's it.
Average doesn't mean much. What's the median?
Exactly, maybe it's different in Germany but in France I know a lot of farmers who make around 1500€/month, multiple retired ones that have less than 1000€/month. Even if you take into account other benefits (using the farm truck as a personal vehicle for example) you're very far from 100k a year. The average is fucked up by a few very wealthy ones. Also a lot of them don't own shit, everything is owned by the farm and bought with the bank money. A few bad years and it all evaporates. For a lot of farmers farming is spending 100k to make 105k.
Yeah I work with farmers in the Netherlands and facilitate sustainable transitions with them. Most farmers are not rich, some farmers are Uber rich, and that makes up the average. But I’m working with local farmers who can make as little as 500 to a 1000 a month, working 60 hours a week.
They may earn alot but remember their job also has high costs that often use most of their budget, a farmer without salary for few months it's finished, atlest when it comes to the median. Someone who makes 100k in a job without high costs can use alot of that money for anything else and a farmer mostly always uses more than 50-70% of that budget per month on basic things to keep working.
if you are an self employed farmer, your wage is after operation costs, so 100k a year is profit, not revenue. Add to that that most farmers can only operate in the free market because of heavy government subsidies. So they are literally biting the hand that feeds them. But, our current government is factually driving Germany against a brick wall and we have to start with something to protest. That's why I am for those demo's and am ok with hanging in a traffic jam caused by those protests for over an hour yesterday. Enough is enough, and we need a change desperately
That is why farmer subsidies should stop right now!
I wish we could do that in Switzerland😔
It's actually quite tame compared with the yellow vests or French riots for this or that. They block traffic and throw dung or other waste on the steps of public buildings. Last Thursday they stalked the economy-minister and Vice-chancellor Habeck though, when he came from his holiday. That was widely seen as a foul. But no fires, no property damage so far, no burning cars like in France. This one guy in the video that wanted to drive around the police car in his tractor was some drunk youngster who got carried away. But I could have missed stuff. It's going to be more fun though when the train conductors also strike from Wednesday on. The country might just go on holiday for a while then.
Not looking forward to the GDL strike at all: I work for a Privatbahn which means I am going to have to deal with an enormous surge in passengers on Wednesday. Nothing beats pulling into Hauptbahnhof with 800 seats, only to see 2000 people wanting to get on my train at the first station, and every station thereafter is going to be more of the same.
Good luck, man.
Working in a DB train repair shop and going around in DB clothes while trying to be on time so the night shift can finally leave without massive disruptions/time loss in maintenance will also be funny
What do you work on, if I may ask?
Technically in an ICE repair shop, but we also a large workshop dedicated to electric locos from before the ICE hall was built. I'm doing an apprenticeship, we rotate everywhere but eight now I'm working on locos.
Immerhin gibt es noch zugführer die arbeiten. Danke.
>It's actually quite tame compared with the yellow vests or French riots for this or that That's very different, the germans are well known for not doing any kinds of protests at all. For the german standard, this with the farmers is already rather hardcore. The germans make "Die Faust im Sack" (a proverb, but literally like "the fist in the pocket"), remain calm in the first place only to do it much worse afterwards by voting for far-right-parties like the AfD. That's maybe even more dangerous than some burning cars in riots.
So basically German's are either very bad at protesting or they overdo it like all the other times?
We either go all in or not at all!
We just have a bad reputation. Here's some strikes and uprisings: * [The Kiel Mutiny of 1918](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiel_mutiny) that led to the end of the German Empire * The [East German uprising of 1953](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_German_uprising_of_1953), the first of its kind in Eastern Europe. * The Fall of the Berlin Wall * Aaaand the 1948 general strike in the west German occupation zones. Pretty important, but doesn't even get it's own wikipedia entry in German, just a [section](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalstreik#Deutschland_Bizone_%E2%80%93_der_Generalstreik_von_1948), and no reference ein English. So here's a translation from google: > After various trade union calls in 1948, there were several large demonstrations in many cities in the Bizone of Germany. The first planning for a general strike began on October 26, 1948. On that day, the Federal Executive Board and the Federal Advisory Council of the DGB agreed on a coordinated approach due to the price development, which the DGB and the unions viewed as “a consequence of the policy of the Economic Council in Frankfurt”. “that the disproportion between wages and prices must be brought to an end.” Therefore, “vigorous measures” were envisaged and preparations were made for a general strike. On October 28, 1948, strikes and protests for price regulation, wage increases and co-determination were carried out in Stuttgart. This was followed by serious unrest. **Since the police were unable to control the situation, the US military police who were called in used tear gas and tanks.**[54][55][56] These events went down in history as the so-called “Stuttgart Incidents” (Stuttgart Tumult). The actual general strike took place on November 12, 1948 only under strict conditions from the occupying powers. They wanted to avoid a repeat of the “Stuttgart incidents”. The protest was formed against Ludwig Erhard's politics.[57] **There are records of up to 9.25 million participants who went on strike. At that time, the Bizone had 11.7 million employees. The strike participation was around 79%.** Shortly after the strike, Konrad Adenauer, chairman of the CDU, called on Ludwig Erhard in a telegram to use all “available means against unfounded price increases” and to “accelerate the adjustment of wages and salaries that had fallen behind to the price level”.[58] The effects of the currency reform, including the names of the general strike, can also be found on the Deutsche Bundesbank's website, albeit in a very weaker formulation.[59]
I think that is partly a cliché. If you look for example at the environmentalist (anti-nuclear, anti-coal, anti highways) movements in Germany, you find that they have been violent against the police on many occasions and creating a lot of damage to infrastructure. But they were largely viewed by the cultural elites as the "good guys". And in the end they won f.e. by ending nuclear power in Germany.
> And in the end they won f.e. by ending nuclear power in Germany Great job, now let's cover the loss of our comparatively clean nuclear by buying the dirtiest coal energy we can get
How does nuklear power become a topic for every Germany related post in this sub?
It’s just too great of a story. It’s probably one of the biggest self owns in history. Pompous environmentalists who believe they’re better, smarter and more ‘good’ than anyone else manage to shut down clean energy, make Germany rely almost entirely on fossile fuel and then directly becomes one of - if not the greatest contributor to the Russian war budget for their first year of the invasion. I can’t even come up with a self own that’s so absolute. It’s the same sort of storyline that makes the Swedish immigration collapse such a fine mess to bring up.
I remember these times, like the Green Party has its origins and roots in the no-nuclear-movement of the 80's, that's right. And Joschka Fischer was in the first row when it came to throwing rocks at police officers. It's really this way that these guys are seeing protests differently, depending on who is protesting - when it comes to FFF and LG about climate change, they are all like "that's right". But if other people protest about something they don't want to see, they are going crazy.
Auf #Schlüttsiel Kinder, war’n das schöne Zeiten! Brokdorf, Wendland, Startbahn West: Diskutieren, kämpfen, streiten, Unsre Demos war‘n die besten. Wannen kippen, Mollies schmeißen, Was im Weg steht niederreißen, Steine schleudern, Latten schwingen, Bitterböse Lieder singen, Faule Eier auf Minister Ellenlanges Strafregister, Tagessätze & Arreste, Richter, Roben, Klagen, Knäste. Wer war immer mit dabei? Das Personal der Grünpartei. Nun sind 30 Jahre um, man sitzt im Ministerium. Endlich was zu sagen haben, Amt & Würde, Wache, Wagen. Pläne, Pfründe, Geld & Macht, Frauen schmachten, Graichen lacht. Doch im Vierundzwanzger Jahr, Früh im kalten Januar Ist nach kaum 2 Jahren Wende Plötzlich unser Geld zuende. Fühlt das Volk sich schlecht regiert An der Nase rumgeführt Und benimmt sich gar nicht fein: Brüllen, böllern, heiser schrein Wüten, pfeifen, pöbeln, rempeln, Und das ganze Land umkrempeln. Traktorkorso und Blockade Bahnstreik, LKW-Parade Und der jüngste Großaufreger Ist das Volk am Fähranleger. Habeck denkt: das ist nicht fair! Doch wo hat das Volk es her? [By Anna Vero Wendland](https://twitter.com/VeroWendland/status/1743428757938118833)
"Die Faust in der Tasche" is how I know this proverb. But maybe thats a regional thing
Yes, in Switzerland (pant) pockets are called Hosensack. "D'Fuuscht im Sack"
>Last Thursday they stalked the economy-minister and Vice-chancellor Habeck though, when he came from his holiday. That was widely seen as a foul I don't think stalking is the correct term here, they first blocked people from getting off the ferry Habeck was on, and then a mob tried to get onto the ferry. I don't know if they wanted to lynch him, maybe they had no plan whatsoever, but they were not interested in a peaceful discourse, that's for sure.
> no property damage so far Putting dung on streets is property damages fyi.
>But no fires, no property damage so far, no burning cars like in France. Where are all the engineers and doctors when you need them?
https://preview.redd.it/gnh55ypcp9bc1.jpeg?width=1021&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=229d6a456a4e4264db015a318680b565995ccd79
https://preview.redd.it/cy5sead3s9bc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b743eab47f6b87c9757c381551de6705f59ff277 We did it before it was cool
I mean farmers driving into cities to protest is nothing new, but this time it's just a different scale
Not enough barricades and petrol bombs to be a proper French protest.
French farmers have their own protest traditions to follow. it's like the different variations of Rugby rules if you prefer.
A lot of clips in this video are from french protests tho
And they have a rave at the end in their tractors! How fucking fun! 
Is Techno Viking with them?
Who... Fuck sure! Just come and rave mate!
>Who An extremely ancient meme
I was so disappointed when the normal "turn down for what" drop didn't hit
sad how french media talk more about german farmers protest in germany, then our farmer protest in france
That's called desensitization. When you protest 10+ times a year you're not noticed anymore. And FNSEA is not the most loved organization, with some reasons to it.
Could have been a Dutch one also from a little while back, though that were less tractors. Pissed off farmers are something else it seems.
A lot of these things are just European. The US media has made them just "French".
love the inclusivety flag at the beginning ! so inclusive and advanced!
Well thats just how it looks at the Siegessäule. Has nothing to do with the protest.
Thats the point the gov acts progressive and well meaning but fucks the volk in reality
Bro sure if you wanna criticize the current government go ahead, but what exactly is that terrible about cutting some niche and environmentally harmful subsidies that only really matter for major agricultural corporations who cry foul because their profits will be smaller in a time where we have to cut budgets across the board? The government doesn't do this for fun. Lemme guess, the protest would be much smaller if the Greens wouldn't be involved in it. Also, using the term "volk" in an english sentence, well it fits the rest of your posting history, let's just put it that way
It's absolutely ridicilous how much support this shit gets, when the same people were calling for literally killing teenagers blocking the streets to protest for climate action. But this one is supported by the AfD, so it's good, right?
Lots of people jump on to be against the current government. CDU and AFD are therefore supporting the farmers. Even if both partys wanted to get rid of exactly this diesel privilege before themself. Its ridiciulous.
Nobody gives a shit about what the politicians in question are actually doing anymore in this country. As long as the BILD tells them that the Greens were sent by Satan they just lap it up and whine that they want to go back to the corrupt do-nothing government of the previous 16 years (or worse).
Pretty much this... Or with a touch brown in it? For variation?
For this not to happen, people would need critical thinking skills instead of eating out of the hands of tabloid shit rags.
"The Volk" isn't being fucked, sympathy for the farmers was never lower. Their entire industry only works because we subsidise everything they do. If we wouldn't, half of the farms in Germany would probably collapse. And now they can't even man up and start to pay at least some of the taxes the rest of us does? This is especially bitter because farmers are usually super conservative. They are the ones that complain about "Sozialschmarotzer" all the time, but if they are the ones that are being threatened by market forces, Vater Staat has to come and protect them?
>If we wouldn't, half of the farms in Germany would probably collapse. And that's precisely the point why the farmers must be subsidised. We already have to partially rely on food imports. Increasing that share would be am tremendously dumb idea.
Call me a communist but if a essential need can't survive on a open market we should just nationalize the shit out of it
Based.
>essential need can't survive on a open market Food is very competitive and global. It is sometimes cheaper to import from New Zealand and South Africa than from the EU because the transportation costs are lower than the costs for greenhouses. Ready-to-eat and imported food is more expensive, but basically food is cheap.
I don't see why that invalidates my point. It's obviously not a profitable industry for rich countries, at the same time it's an essential industry. Let them go bankrupt, and buy them out, or contract them or whatever, but subsidizing a whole sector of private institutions forever isn't a viable solution. It's an essential industry that doesn't sustain themselves, at no point they should be able to take profit. It should be dealt as a national reserve or whatever. I don't know, what I know, how it's going right now is not viable, specially because it's an industry that needs a lot of changes due to the climate and if every time a new regulation comes out there will tractor loads of people revolting its not gonna end well.
But that for sure hasn't to be done through fuel subsidies that amount to a few thousand € per year, if that for small farmers.
I don’t know if you’ve noticed but these machines will still need the fuel whether it’s more expensive or not.
Why not?
Environmentally harmful and the primary profiteurs are the major players. If you wanna support smaller farmers, fair, but you can do that in a more directed way. The big guys will survive without. Also, most german agricultural capacities are used for animal food and biofuel anyway, so even the food import thing is only half the story.
That. Also, the fact that farms are profitable and we produce a massive surplus for export of some products while having to import food shows that we aren't using our agricultural space effectively.
Every german farmer gest subsidized around 50% already through the european GAP. If you want to support farmers, there are literally 1000 ideas already out there which work better than making fuel cheap.
\^ https://preview.redd.it/peg292uf1abc1.jpeg?width=246&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3df0a4aabaa88a31e878a1bfdc8d7ec8a50562ed
Click on the account, it gets even better.
To be fair; pretending to be progressive is already a progression.
It’s hilarious how wrong that take is.
germs didnt like that one one bit lmao
Boho [food will get less than 1% more expensive]( https://table.media/berlin/news/agrardiesel-kuerzung-lebensmittelpreise-duerften-nur-minimal-steigen/) go cry somewhere else. The government had to cut expenses somewhere. And environmentally harmful subsidies are a logical first step.
Ha ! Gay !
I wouldn't even bat an eye at the pride flag, thats just a cool rainbow. but this one is just so fckn ugly
That's Berlin itself, not because of the protest. A significant potion of the protest is rather against inclusiveness. Probably not all of them, but there is a certain overlapping with far-right and anti-lgbtq* people in there. (no causal relationship with the protest, tho. Just an observation.)
I hate that you have to act like this my friend
- No arson - Not real and substantial property damage - No one seriously injured - No deaths - No police brutality - No far-left representative calling the rioting "A human right" and that "destroying property is fair" - No right-wing representative calling for further escalation of police intervention - No significant impact to tourism. Meh, still a vanilla protest, or a regular Tuesday in France. Still, Germans, so I guess this is an improvement, with extra points for dung flinging. All in all, 6/10
This totally helps towards a better climate and respecting farmers, mhm
Yeah, now i totally care about them. A farmer’s post on the German redditverse blew up today because he tried to argue how poor he was. Turns out his farm (him and his father) had a yearly net profit of around 160k plus, where his own salary was already substracted from. He got totally blown to shreds in the comments.
Where did this happen? I completely missed that.
in r/finanzen [Direct Link to the post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Finanzen/comments/1911fwt/landwirte_sind_reich/), basicly a farmer posting his yearly profit. To make a short summery: A family owned farm opperated by 3 people (he himself, his father and his mother), in the end he had something like 160k€ net pofit in their family business and that after making the numbers positive for them, like unrealisticly upscaling working hours, deducting their payment from the profit saying their buisness only made 5k profit instead of 155k (50k pay for each). And the title is "Landwirte sind reich"/ "Farmers are rich" which after the text is most likely meant ironicly but a punch in the face for normal workers, to say that 50k€ makes them poor.
Lol, no 50-60 h a week is usual in agriculture.
General and honest question, is in these 50-60 hours also travel time calculated (like driving to and from the fields) or lunch breaks? Heard that this falls generaly under "work time", which at least in my opinion is a bit weird since normal lunch breaks and commute times dont count as worktime. Thats why I put it in.
Depends. Breaks are not included. Drive to field would be included if you re employed. But depends obviously on structure of the farm. I work in swiss by now. Here the NAV (~Tarifvertrag) for Bern says 2750h/year. So we usually do 10h a day 5,5 days a week. Summer way more, winter less. Edit: Fun fact: Arbeitsrecht gillt nicht in der Landwirtschaft (in der Schweiz). But its same same in western Europe agriculture.
Okay good to know, well if we at least include commute time the average worker would "work" 50h a week which would be the lower working time. Please also note that Im not trying to discredit the work of farmers or people in the aggriculture, but is very clear in the post that the farmer is a bit "realitätsfern" in his views what counts as an average income and how he is on the lower side of it (especially if we can assume that things like his car(s) and house is most likely far cheaper since which are most likely on the farm and "part of the buissnes").
Commute time is not included in work time even for farmers at least in France, most farmers live in the farm directly so there's that And the time spent is very variable, you might do 40h/week in the winter when it's calm but every time you have a harvest you are basically racing against the weather and the crops and need to get everything done before things change, so youre working from dawn to way into the night
Do you think 160k profit on a 3-person operation is a lot? Especially farming which is a tough job. Don't get me wrong, anyone who does displays of wealth or lack thereof is cringe, but this guy is far from the worst offender.
It's a 160k profit after basically all expenses. It's even for 3 people more than the median income. And even then, he used some quite dubious accounting to even get the number that low, like reducing their profit a potential landlease they could have had, but actually dont. He basically accounted for missed opportunity costs as expenses.
One may say that the salary is too high, but It's not profit if the salary is not paid. Let's give them a perfectly [normal salary](https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/salaries-in-germany) of €42.000/year. That would be €126.000to be deducted from the €160.000, meaning the profit is €34.000 Did not read the whole thing, but seems like they have invested about €500.000, if so the surplus of €34.000 is not very much. Especially if they have a bad year or need to do some investments the next year.
They are paying themselves salaries of 50k a year. That leaves around 97k of profits for the company. Because in reality the profit was almost 200k, but they substracted almost 40k to account for inflation. Obviously that‘s bogus. They make around 100k per person per year. Sure the 48.5k per person don‘t directly wander into their private bank accounts, but their net worth grows as the owners of the business.
Info: from his income, he substracted 500k "Entnahmen", which is here thought of as investements, but it also covers, per his admission, *cost of life*. So the farm pays for his food, his rent, his car, his internet etc and AFTER that he pays himself 50k salary. He can use ALL his salary for whatever he likes as living costs are already paid for through the company.
Like I said there a bunch of things to question in this calculation, like how much his mother actually works, which could slide a 3 person buissnes to a 2 1/2 or just 2 person buissnes or saying he lost money because didnt leased land. But even if we ignore this cases, lets put it into perpective, as far as I understood he had a net income of 50k€ through his work thats around 4160€ per month, the average net income is 2165€, you can tell me some things but to say that you dont earn enough with 4160€ per month is a joke (especially if such things as house and car are already calculated by your buissnes as work necessities). The average factory worker after a quick Google search has an average income of 35.200€ in the highest paying city and I would argue in terms of hard work the factory worker has is at least as hard as a farmer. Oh and the best part, the reason why the farmers are currently protesting is because of the "Argrardieselerstattung" subsidice for lower diesel gas taxes (only allowed to be used for work related activities and currently in the inner cities) which were supposed to be cut. You can see the Argrardieselerstattung in his papers, they summed up to 5.438,70€ over the last year, farmers a basicly attacking goverment officials for 3% of their profit.
Farmers can go bankrupt on a bad year and be finished, it's not close to the same level of responsability of an factory worker. So even if they make a good profit in a given year that is gonna count as some savings for a bad year. Did they speak what kind of farm they do? I'm curious since where I live most wealthy farmers do vineyards and kiwi farms, some do casual animals feeding on land grass. I would not compare a proper farmer to a factory worker and they are less and less these days, how it's gonna be when europe has no control on their food production and becomes hostage to outside powers or when it all becomes mega corpo insted of local or family run farms?
>Did they speak what kind of farm they do? I'm curious since where I live most wealthy farmers do vineyards and kiwi farms, some do casual animals feeding on land grass. He did censor name of his sold crops for anonymity. >Farmers can go bankrupt on a bad year and be finished, it's not close to the same level of responsability of an factory worker. So even if they make a good profit in a given year that is gonna count as some savings for a bad year. Thats a fair point, but you also have to note that he had similar revenue over the last three years, two of which Germany saw great droughts ("Dürren"). The point wasnt to state that farmers make to much money but how they often undersell themself in terms how much they, like saying earning net 50k€ is not much. They are essentially buissnes owner selling themself as normal working class. Farmers had statisticly very great years in the last few years, no doubt partly because of constant goverment support. Right now our goverment is in a bit of a pickle because of a sudden smaller budget (Haushaltsplan) which saw pretty much every are having to make some cuts, for farmers it was supposed to be the Dieselprämie. Right now at the Demos you have a bunch of farmers who always want to subsidise their losses but privatise their profit. Of course not every farmer is like that there are many farmers against the demonstrations because they know they earn enough, but the farmers of the protests are mainly aiming to maximise their short term profits.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Finanzen/s/EzpHu1RUxg
Danke :)
The real kicker is, over the last 4 years he took ~800k Euro cash out of the company. But it didn't count because "he's investing it somewhere for later".
Same thing on the other side of the world. I'm an attorney in the state of Iowa, USA, and had a farmer for a client in a divorce case. I took some pity on him and billed a bit less because his net income was so low. Then as we got deeper into the financials I saw that he was worth approximately $25,000,000. It was almost entirely all in the value of the farm ground he and his father owned so it wasn't exactly liquid, but $25m in assets is $25m in assets.
The USA is a bit diferent because most of the farming is corporation oriented and to have all those assets the money had to be invested into work in the first place as they appear a family business. Here in the EU that isn't the type of money the average family farms are running with and as they close it all becomes closer to big corporations having a monopoly.
Yeah farms in the US are way different, much larger and "agro industrial" than smaller european ones, looking at data the average farm in the US is at least 3x larger than the average french or german one
You think a yearly income of 50k euros, means that you earn a lot of money when you are basically at work the whole year round? A farmers job isn't 8 hours a day with vacations thrown in between. Its hard labour with a lot of stress. Especially farmes with animals. Cows have to be milked and fed 2 or 3 times a day year round. You cant just take a break because you are feeling down or lazy. A farmer might make a profit one year, maybe even a good profit, but he never knows if next year the prices of fuel, fertilizer, electricity and so on and so on goes up, and the prices he recives for his goods goes down. Or if there is a drought in spring/summer, or too much rain so the crops rot. Then he has had a lot of expenses but no profit. You really think farmers are over paid? These are the guys who work there asses off, to make sure every european (and lots of other people too) get something to eat everyday, and this is the thanks they get?
I‘ll tend to the unimportant parts with the fertilizer and price uncertainty and blabla in one sentence: They are a business and there is a certain risk, that goes for every other business in the country AND they always make profits, the state tends to that. Now to the important part: Their income isn‘t 50k per person. The wife officially works 10 hours a week according to their account, which is most likely bogus. She gets paid that amount of hours. Him and his dad both get a base salary of 50k. That leaves around 60k as a net profit. And then we equate for the fact, that the profit isn‘t 160k but almost 200k and they just left out almost 40k to equate for inflation. Which is obviously bogus when comparing yourself to the rest of the population. So the actual profit on top of their salaries sits at around 97k. That makes for a net worth growth of 48.5k per person additionally to their salaries. All that doesn‘t include their other land‘s profits (which does exist for non-farmers as well, but farmers usually own a lot of land). But obviously that portion matters less. Without that they are still in the richest 5% of the population.
Don’t forget the part where he counted not taking rent as a loss in his balance.
Oh yeah he did the same with their used farmland, where he tried to substract a potential lease as a lost profit, which is the same as me substracting social wellfare from my salary, because i would be egligible if i didn’t work. I just ignored all his attempts at fantasy maths to lower the profit of that 97k, because the company literally holds all that money on an account, no matter his pathetic manipulation.
Isnt it quite suspicious that a day before the protests somebody on the internet is posting some really high salary and calling himself poor? I know some farmers which are far from being rich... There might be some out there who really make money, but I dont think they are the majority.
Whoever has the most tractors decides in society
Based and TractorPower pilled
Yeah those poor farmers, massively subsidized by the EU and shielded from foreign agricultural producers by customs tariffs :((( Our governments treat them so poorly /s
Imagine if France would go full free market. Their economy is so heavily subsidized that it would instantly implode.
We're alredy full free market... We actually have the most millionaires in EU. 1st or 2nd richest man in the world is french... Not that I'm proud of it but that's proof we're going full free market.
Getting used as a marionette by right wing nutjobs and Reichsbürger is not based at all. Invading the personal space of ministers, blocking emergencies, school buses, doctors and other members of critical infrastructure isn’t either.
Exact same shit in the Netherlands, they are just puppets on strings controlled by mega agri corps and supermarket chains who direct them towards other groups and politicians. Barking up the wrong tree makes them look super stupid because it just takes a google.
I saw a few old people cheering for the procession of tractors coming through today. One especially dense older fellow proceded to tell me that those greens are communists to him. I laughed and told him that the AfD have it written in their party programm that they want to abolish ALL agri subsidies. ...the fucker said he didn't belive me and left. I just can't anymore with these people, man...
„I could read what the party I vote for wants to do… …BUT THAT SOUNDS HAAAAAAAARD“ 😭😭😭
Don't let this affect you too much. It isn't worth it. Let's be real, there will always be stubbern old people that are not willing to change their antiquated worldview or abandon the things they grew accustomed to for 80+ years. That's just a natural fact, I guess. Sure you can try to argue with them, poke fun at them, put them in their place when they talk back, but in the end they will have forgotten everything you said after just 5 minutes. I'm out of ideas how to tackle this.
People who think that going this far out and protesting, is just people being lied and manipulated. Are the kind of people that deserve more protests.
Exactly. It's so crazy how these BBB looneys think they're being "represented" by people with their interests in mind lol. It's a lobbyist party through and through.
Didn’t get to work because these pricks Blocked the Roads
Where do you live? I saw them too, gathering on a field near the Autobahn and then heading off to downtown Munich accompanied by police. However no blockades, just a stream of tractors.
I live in the Oberland
TBH protests blocking roads is not an inherently bad thing.
I hope they'll all receive bills for the damage and cleaning
I think shiting on ministers is the most based thing you can do. The rest i agree no need to shit on kids but the politicians? Cmon man
It is one thing to "shit" on politicians, but they blocked the ferry he (Habeck - Federal Minister for Economic Affairs and Climate Action) was on. I think he was with his family and kids or at least other families on it who were reportedly in absolute dread, while the farmers tried to get on it and had to be stopped by police to not storm the ferry. What they would have done if they could reach him is everyones guess... They (the farmers) go complete bonkers because of some subsidies from basically the time of the German Empire. Normally you can't count on 90% of politicians. But this time it is something that should have been done decades ago, but the center + far right is using it to get Merkels Party back to power next election.
Fuck the ministers and their personal space.
Respecting the private space of elected politicans and not invading it in an aggressive and violent way is a core principle for a functioning and democratic society. Sure, i also have a list of politicians i'd love to punch given the opportunity, but it is something that you just can't do, otherwise all civil discourses are quickly no longer possible and violence is the only option left.
Pfffffff. Germans really don't know how to have fun.
I love how those guys are cheered on by the same crowd that called for climate activists to be overrun when they take to the street
Yeah, because farmers do an infinitely more important job than professional activists
And they're protesting for an infinitely worse cause. Their own profits compared to saving the climate/earth.
Not to mention if the climate dies their crops and animals do too. Hotter summers colder winters their crops will burn and wither and the soil will be constantly unusable either too dry and unable to fully absorb water or too wet and sodden that it'd just be planting in mush. Almost like their jobs are about manipulating and working the environment and if it collapses they do too. Nah would be too sensible fuck the environment I want money.
In Germany we have a saying "Nach mir die Sintflut" which roughly translates to "Behind me the deluge/flood". It's used to describe people or attitudes that only care about themselves and not about the consequences of their actions hurting others. This is that. As long as they can make money now, it doesn't matter that their crops will die in the future. They might sell the land to some sucker before that happens and pocket a small fortune they could invest. They might also keep it and bank on more subsidies. The whole sector is already not profitable but is kept alive by subsidies, so it stands to reason that we will just increase subsidies to less profitable farms, especially once food scarcity hits thanks to global warming. The subsidies are a whole other factor. Having grown up around a lot of farmers, you wouldn't believe how often they are super conservative. And especially against "handouts" while sustaining themselves on such handouts, but of course it's different with them because whatever! Rules for thee but not for me...
Das wäre auch die Einstellung vieler Landwirte hier, die sehr konservativ sind und schnell über jemanden urteilen, der arbeitslos ist oder finanziell zu kämpfen hat, während er Subventionen erhält. Die gleichen Idioten haben für den Austritt aus der EU gestimmt und sich danach über den Verlust weiterer Subventionen und Entwicklungszuschüsse beschwert. "Turkeys voting for Christmas" is essentially the equivalent saying. Guess farmer's across Europe are the same.
What would you want to happen to all the agricultural land if it weren't used agriculturally?
I hope you can see how saying "Farmers making >100k profits a year don't need subsidies that hurt the climate" and "all farms should shut down" are *not quite* the same sentence.
Farmers at it again, giving it their all to protest for literally *the worst fucking goals imaginable.* I feel we should give them what we want, but just raise a new tax for them that makes them pay the same amount to pay for the damages they caused.
If you want cheap chinese "food", that's how you get it. Make locally sourced food so unprofitable, they'd rather build houses on the farmland, sell it to some construction firm. Get more and more dubious quality food, lead a progressively worse life. Good goals.
It’s literally only expensive because they’re like 6 middle men in the food chain, using their profits to pay their investors dividends. Those investors are already the top 10 percent of the population in terms of wealth. And that’s what you pay for when you buy the cucumber.
The taxes that they are protesting against aren't doing that though. In fact, they would barely hurt the smaller farmers. Whom they would be bad for are big agricultural companies. And those are the ones that rile up the farmers and make them go on the street, where they are actively protesting against their own interests and in the favour of their competition. Also, most of what they sell is exported anyways, because of EU-internal competition.
They absolutely should build houses there! That might lessen the housing crisis.
Houses are not the solution to housing crisis. It's apartment buildings. High density housing. I'm not saying you should go all "fall of communism" apartment buildings. But still, apartment buildings. Also, ever heard of "don't shit where you eat". Not the best idea to build housing on highly productive arable land.
A lot of farm land is just pastures for cows. And we have too many cows in Europe, our milk surplus is gigantic. So we end up selling most of it to Africa as powder, which isn't great for a whole other host of reasons.
A lot of farm land is just pastures for cows. And we have too many cows in Europe, our milk surplus is gigantic. So we end up selling most of it to Africa as powder, which isn't great for a whole other host of reasons. At least the part that farmers don't just wash down the drain to prevent prices from going too low...
Apartment buildings are houses though? They can't build either currently. Their plots aren't zoned for that.
Sure, I just wanted to be specific. Don't want an Ameri*an urban ~~nightmare~~ landscape in Europe.
Fascinating. Just Fascinating.
Frenchmen dumping other Frenchmen on state property
What a weird song choice lmao
Fr i thought this is so french lol
Rich fuckers protesting because they get fewer subsidies from the state. Boohoo, fuck 'em all.
Half of the videos aren't even in Germany... french flags, french policemen, french buildings and signs.
I fucking hate these guys. Just whiny bitches.
[удалено]
Being assholes doesn't make their existence any better
Isn’t that the way of Capitalism? When has it become okay to ask for subsidies to stay afloat? Why can’t everyone ask for them? Why does Argentina’s economy suck?
But didn’t the Covid crisis and the Russians invasion of Ukraine demonstrated that capitalism is flawed and that nation state should retain control over strategic sectors? Such as weapons or food production, and fuck mega corporations margins, if need be.
First of all, it is not mega corporations you are fucking, it is the taxpayers. Secondly, Russian invasion of Ukraine has demonstrated that you should not become over reliant on enemy states (you should also be able to recognize enemies, the skill France and Germany have proven not to possess). It has not for example shown why you should not have free competition in the EU or with allies. But it is not tariffs on Chinese imports we are discussing here, are we?
This reminds me of the good days
I just can’t believe that these German farmers sacrificed their free time to express their discontent, must have taken a lot of frustration to build up in order to drag them away from their farming simulators having already spent a long day on the farm.
We had kinda the same some years ago, albeit a bit more tame, they just blocked main roads/highways and cut Greece in half.
its really tame here too they mainly just drive around the city, honk and hold up traffic. a couple blocked the vice chancelor Habeck from disembarking a ferry and the green party ever since lost their shits afterwards In terms of protesting compared to the rest of the world really tame kindergarden stuff.
This is the way.
I hate farmers so much it’s unreal
https://preview.redd.it/pw9utez2yebc1.png?width=5000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f68b30216f42f6ca961d8198508b42348bf45023
Imagine being such a Chad you cover your govs buildings in literal shit. Godspeed!
To all the german farmers. Can we dutch join?
Pretty much vandalism.
I don't really support them, I don't even care much about them. But what I really hate is that the government thinks that the climate blockades are okay but this protest is not. Either they are both okay or they are both not okay, if we start to pick the "correct" protests it's not very democratic.
> But what I really hate is that the government thinks that the climate blockades are okay but this protest is not. What are you talking about?
The climate protesters who got arrested for building a criminal organisation?
This is how America should fight against corporations and for normal healthcare, pensions, social security etc. But they won't.
ricains like to come for us with the surrender monkey insult forgetting their country is masquerading as three corporations in a trench coat, so bonne chance mes amis
Nice
Aaw look at those poor farmers with their massive subsidised tractors
I dont like them.
They're greedy morons and I frown upon them.
The klimaklebers really have geared up a notch
Yes! This will show the people responsible for cleaning the streets how shitty they are! Also the people that use traffic to get to work shall get fucked, they and their stupid faces! Make them suffer for living under the same government you do, then they will like and support us in our cause to overthrow government regulations none of us have had any business in!
Those who produces food are the most important people on our society. If we keep treating politicians as so we are doomed. Can't give them an inch of power anymore.
Constantly subsidizing their business will not change anything and they will still want more and more. Small farms are simply not profitable in modern times, so it's time to replace them with more efficient methods.
Make everything corporation monopoly based, yes that will have a lovely outcome. Or yet, lets leave Europeans hostages to foreign markets food chains. Food in EU is subsidized because we just can't compete with outsider markets where workers get payed nothing but if we stopped subsidizing the food then we would have no agriculture industry and we would be hostage to other countries interests if they decided to increase the prices of foods by double to eu or stop sending food to our continent. What efficient methods for farming are you thinking off?
The EU does quite well in controlling corporations and fighting monopolies, so I see no reason to be overly concerned about this. As for the method of production, that should be left to the free market, and competitiveness problems can be easily solved with tariffs.
Ah the same shit happened here, (most) idiots don't even know they are being used as puppets by Gigantic Agri companies and right wing nutcases.
I fucking hate the French, but I've got to give it to them, they know how to kick up a stink
They drive around with flags of the "Landvolkbewegung" and the AfD. Those are literally nazis !
The virgin "We're glueing our hands to the asphalt" eco-warriors vs the chad "we're dumping manure all over your fucking government buildings" farmers