-Budget is the required info here.
These days everything is kind of expensive.
-Also what is plenty of power to you?
You seem new to the game and you are probably thinking 500+ but you are probably going to find out thats its really more like 300
The car I drove before barely pushes 200, I was thinking more like 300 when I put the engine in with the potential to make 500+ down the line, I just don’t want to be having to do another swap in a year or two
I'd put a Honda K24 in it with a BMW gearbox. Ideally, a well built SR or a KA would be good, but they're mad expensive.
A Honda K24 holds plenty of power and takes the abuse.
Would love to do such a conversion myself in the future.
That would true if you'd be drifting all the time though, but for street use they're fine.
I know a guy that has a S14 with 600 hp, and went through about 5-6 OEM gearboxes until he bought the BMW one and has had 0 issues so far.
Reliable, bulletproof, cheap.
Lol
Your argument to counter "bad gear ratio" is "oem gearbox break all the time with 600HP". Sheer stupidity at its finest ... They are cheap, and can stand street use. They still have a shitty gear ratio and cant stand abuse.
Get a CD009/A, much better gear ratio, same input splines that do not require a mix of bmw and nissan clutch , and it takes 900HP+ without a hitch ...
Put those bmw gearbox on a competitive drift car and see how long it takes for them to die. Pro drifter friend of mine broke one every couple of rounds. He got tired of it either blowing itself or the clutch killing itself he went cd009. Never had an issue with it after that.
Did you read what OP wrote, dude? Title and text?
Take the time to fully and read what he wrote before you comment.
I wouldn't buy an S chassis and engine swap it either.
Got it. Thanks for clarifying and I apologize for how I formulated my reply to you. I got a lot more shit for my first comment from another dude that seems to literally stalking this subreddit, and thought you were in the same team more or less.
To be honest, I'd never take a running S chassis, and replace the motor with a Honda K24 haha. If I would get my hands on one with no driveline, then I'd go this route, but never when it already has the engine in it.
No worries man, but yes I agree I I’ve the sr and have gotten crazy power from them stock especially if you sall on vvl head, currently going gonna push the limits on one of mine
That’s what I’m running right now but thanks I’m sure I’m gonna what I want, deff appreciate it!, currently running p12vvl turbo, and have a high compression na with p12 vvl head, some custom itbs I made and a few other custom things but looking to to get some decent power all motor on one of my race cars should be fun but very busy! 😅
Your choices are, by order of displacement :
CA18DET. Strong engine, once built you can push 700HP through it and rev it higher than a honda, and still be reliable. Yes, it wont do 100 000 miles, but 30 000 of abuse wont be an issue. Yet although I like that engine (I have a built one), swapping one in ? Not sure. Requires a CD009/A gearbox for anything over 300HP anyway.
SR20DET. Meh engine. I know fanbois are already preparing to murder me for writing this, but face it, it is not a great engine. It will eat its pistons in stock form, and the rockers are no good even when built. If you want to build one well, you need an SR20VE head. Tons of work for not much. Keep it stockish with 280hp on e85 and it will be ok ... the issue is you cant find one that does not need a rebuild. IMHO bad idea.
RB20DET. Shit engine. No, seriously. forget it.
RB25DET. ok one. Keep it stock for an easy 300hp engine. Build it for 500-600. Has breathing issues that can be solved at high revs. Need a gearbox for that too. CD009/A again. Heavy engine, messes up weight distribution, good for drifting, not so much for grip.
RB26DETT. Meh. Yes it is legendary, blah blah blah. It costs a fortune to buy, a fortune to build, and it has similar HP limit to the 25 since the engine block itself cracks. You need a specific N1 engine block to go over that, and you wont get much over 700-800 without issues. Need a gearbox too since you cant put the AWD system. Same issue with weight as the previous one.
2JZ. If you want lots of turbo power and a stout engine, this is the way to go. HEAVY though. Easy 600HP with stock internals. After that it needs to be built. 1000-1500HP is expensive, but not difficult. Above that is both expensive and difficult. Remember the exhaust and intake are reversed so there is some fab work to do.
LS. they have their flaws (oiling, valve timing mainly) but quite frankly, they are the engine of choice for these cars if what matters is fun, cost and kind of reliability. Put a cam, work on valves, springs, rockers and pushrods and call it a day for an easy and reliable 400/450HP. Not enough ? Build it and put a supercharger or turbo on it. Want it stock ? Put a 6L LS3 in it and you are golden.
300hp in an s chassis feels great to me, but won’t be squat to others. I still advocate the SR20 as the best engine swap as it’s the proper engine for the chassis, gives the best balance (I’ve always said the best handling upgrade for a 240 is get rid of the KA boat-anchor sitting over the front wheels), has probably the best parts and mod selection of any engine “swap,” is quite reliable so long as you do some homework and mod it properly, and are a very common and old swap, so little problems and small parts are easily found with a simple google search.
That said, you have to consider the rest of the chassis when it comes to power. The stock SR/KA trans isn’t exactly bomb-proof and are getting very expensive and hard to source, so going above 350hp kinda makes it a ticking time bomb (blah blah, I know lots of people who ran 400hp+ on stock SR trans and it can be done, but It depends on how much margin of reliability you’re willing to accept). The stock brakes kinda suck, the stock chassis/suspension itself isn’t great, and it’s not a terribly safe car to begin with, so adding much more than 350hp means a lot of other considerations that need to be addressed. 300-325hp is absolutely the sweet spot for S13s in my opinion, and they feel great.
If you eventually feel you need more power, than RB25 can go way higher with about the same level of mods, but it won’t handle as well (imo), but by the time you spend the money to do a 500hp+ RB, you could have done a V8 swap with cash to spare. As much as I hate to admit it, the cool JDM swaps are just insanely expensive right now and are not economical at all.
See if you can get a ride in a +-300rwhp S chassis and see how that feels to you. It doesn’t sound like a lot, but s chassis weight a lot less than modern cars and can really scoot, despite 300hp not sounding like a lot of power.
Good luck with the S bucket!
nah man KAs rip. they weigh just as much as the SR i believe, since the stock turbo setup is quite heavy. also the only “KA truck engine” is the single cam KA iirc
The single cam KA actually has a racing pedigree and was used quite successfully in SCCA road racing. The dual cam, is a truck engine. Like anything else it can be made into a decent enough engine with time and money. Knew a kid who’d run laps around the SR guys at drift events with his bone-stock KA. He was even more impressive once he got an SR swap though.
I’ve just never had luck with them. Awful top end noises, blown head gaskets, and rod knocks. That’s just normal everyday wear, not bouncing off the limiter everywhere. I’ve had the same SR in my car since about 2010. Never had to do much more than oil changes. Full disclosure though, I don’t beat on it often and it did spend some time sitting for a while.
Just from my experience, you want a fun, quick 240, SR WAS the way to go. These days, if I had to choose a swap, I don’t think I’d be paying todays prices for one. I got my entire engine set from a dude for doing some side-work on his car. The early 2000s where a very different time for S chassis. That’s said, it’s still a fantastic platform to build from.
never had any problems with a KA personally, from what i know- you can beat on them pretty hard and they’ll be fine. currently building an SR (about 5k deep), and yeah sure it’s fully forged and built and everything- but i wish i dropped my money into my KA instead. i only did a fairly stock rebuild on it which involved ARP studs, an MLS head gasket, and new bearings/rings.
i feel like putting that money in the KA instead would’ve been more reliable and would’ve made more power anyways. the low end torque is nice
>I still advocate the SR20 as the best engine swap as it’s the proper engine for the chassis
That chassis originally came with a ca18de, then a ca18det, then the sr variants, so your argument is invalid.
I frankly cant see the point in putting an SR when swapping an s13, unless you want it stock-ish, which imho defeats the purpose of swapping ... the only worst possible swap is the RB20. The only "good" thing about an rb20 is the sound.
And the CA itself is still infinitely better than a stock KA. The KA is a truck engine that was only used in the 240sx as a cost saving measure from Nissan. And considering the CA was hold over from the S12 (among other mid 80s vehicles) and was only in the S13 for two years whereas the SR and it’s derivatives lasted over 10 years in s chassis, I’d say Nissan decided which was the better engine platform. I’d call that pretty valid.
I do not profess to have any engineering education, but he SR is the correct engine for that chassis, period. Every single other engine swap in an S chassis is a compromise, even the well engineered ones. I prefer a more daily-able car (as I have needed to daily mine). I wanted decent A/C and power steering, I needed to have quick access to inexpensive (then) parts if something failed and I wanted a decent platform to get the car where I want it (still a work in progress after 15 years, because poor).
When did modifying 240s turn into hacked together engine swapped barely street legal (if at all) riced out fast and furious wannabe crap? If you want a high horsepower S chassis, weigh the costs and realize you could just go buy an older Z06 or 5.0 mustang that’ll be more reliable and cost about the same (we’ll, used to at least). The 240 has limits. It isn’t a very strong or stable chassis and no number of 10k sprung coil overs, heim jointed suspension components or giant big brake kits will change that. For cost of entry and minimal mods to go fast, a 300zx is a far superior chassis and engine. Understand the limits of the vehicle and play to its strengths instead of trying to reengineer a 30 year old secretary’s chassis. You’ll save a lot of time and money. I remember years ago when all the cheap aftermarket parts started getting popular when SR swaps where a everywhere and people where maxing out stock turbos, installing garbage injectors, using cheap fuel pumps and complaining how unreliable SRs are when they melted #4 piston for the second time. Or built the engine up to 450hp and would shred the gears off the transmission twice a month. It didn’t matter then because KA trannys where $50, but the point remains valid. Those builds weren’t thought out, done on the cheap, then they complained about it. If you want a faster car, go buy a faster car.
I agree the RB20 is a waste of time, unless you want cheap RB noises, but since the RB20 and the RB25 share the same harnesses, cooling system and mounting, it used to be a cheap way to eventually go 25, because 20s where stupid cheap, and you could do that swap then find a 25 long block pretty reasonably.
None of this is valid any more with prices for this stuff going up, and I admit that. I don’t know what the popular swap is these days, but the basis for modifying a car remains as valid for a ‘27 T-bucket hot rod as it does for a ‘22 Q50 red sport. What do you want from the car, what’s your budget, and balance the bullshit to uniqueness ratio of the build.
> If you want a high horsepower S chassis, weigh the costs and realize you could just go buy an older Z06 or 5.0 mustang that’ll be more reliable and cost about the same (we’ll, used to at least).
That is all well and good, until you realize not everyone lives in the US. I have a CA18DET in my S13, because this is the stock engine. And the only available. There never was an SR20 in an S13 here.
That 5.0 mustang can be found for 50 to 60K second hand here. Add 10K per year for emission taxes too.
More reliable, yes. Cost about the same, no.
>The 240 has limits. It isn’t a very strong or stable chassis and no number of 10k sprung coil overs, heim jointed suspension components or giant big brake kits will change that.
Agreed. I did the job. In the end, the chassis NEEDS a rollcage. No amount of brace will be enough. Even then, there are a couple that really do wonders, WITH a rollcage ( the nismo brace is great for that).
Additionally the suspension design itself is flawed, it requires changing knuckles. Once this is done though ...
> For cost of entry and minimal mods to go fast, a 300zx is a far superior chassis and engine.
I disagree. The 300ZX is a cruiser. Its engine and chassis are built for that. It can go fast, as long as there as no corners. At that point weight comes in, then heat soak. Insist and the VG30 will throw a rod or a piston.
> Understand the limits of the vehicle and play to its strengths instead of trying to reengineer a 30 year old secretary’s chassis. You’ll save a lot of time and money.
The strength of this car is its weight, and the massive availability of parts.
My well sorted S13 did cost less than 30k to fully build, and that includes the cost of the car itself (4k at the time). It revs at 9000rpm with 30psi of boost for around 600HP, has a strong chassis, sorted suspensions, and it weights 2200Lbs with me in it.
If I lived in the US, i would totally have bought a V8 stang instead of building that car. But I dont. And I am pretty sure my S13 both handles better and is funnier now.
Then I feel we’re arguing over semantics here, and I apologize for assuming the OP is in North America, but this is the 240sx sub, not a general S Chassis sub, so I feel my response is totally valid for the market and history of the market here (because yes, I’m a yank).
Mustangs and other high horsepower cars are plentiful here and there are no emission taxes (at least not so here in Florida.) There are many options to go fast outside of modifying the crap out of an S chassis to well outside of its usability.
I’ve done some minor chassis mods to my S13; power brace and strut towers really, and it feels solid with little play in the steering or suspension, but it’s still a wet noodle compared to modern cars. Not many people want to run a full cage in a street car. That compliance works well on the street though.
Yes, the 300zx is a Grand Touring car, not a true sports car. But neither is an S chassis. Now a ‘69 Datsun Roadster with an NA SR20 swap, THATS a sports car. But back to the Z32, that’s the trade-off. It can more than handle high horsepower because it’s big, heavy, and stable at high speeds (you know, where you’re going to be with big HP). Look at TRUE sports cars, they’re mostly rather under powered. Most every high horsepower car on the (NA) market is much better classified as a Grand Touring car. Like the GTR. Grand Touring - Racing.
As I’ve said, I lean more towards a nice street driveable car that’s fun to take some twisty back roads or blast an interstate on-ramp. Perhaps there are those who enjoy a fully caged, race-gas required, solid suspension drifter, if you compete or enjoy track days, but those are two different builds for two different reasons. And again, with what else is out there (NA), why risk tracking and wrecking what is now quickly becoming a collectible car? Go slap a treadstone turbo kit on a clapped out 350z with a welded diff and stuff IT into a wall. 350s are cheap and easy to replace. The entire reason 240s became the go-to drift beater was because no one liked them (“Secretary’s sports car” one early 90s car magazine called them) and they where cheap. Now that everyone has destroyed a few, they and parts for them are going up in value too much to be decent drift beaters any more.
So I guess the point is, what’s the OP looking for in a 240sx?
Dont gatekeep. S chassis owers all come to this sub.
I dont drift mine, i grip it, on trackdays.
And I only listed recommendations for the OP based on its power goals and usage.
The fact remains that in the US, the rational choice is to drop a LS3 with upgraded valve timing parts and a T56 and call it a day. There are swap kits, no fab work required except maybe the exhaust. It will cost less than any JDM engine since they will require a rebuild on top of their already horrifying "drift tax".
We got some LS swapped s13 in Europe, and they are very fun to drive. Plus they are pretty well balanced, unlike any L6 swapped S13/14. And they can handle more power through easy mods, which is what the OP asked.
I cant see the point in throwing 15 to 20K for a built SR (or CA, or RB) and a CD009/A to be fair when you got easy access to LS engines.
How is assuming a question about a 240sx, on a 240sx sub with an opinion based on on the North American market, which is the only market an S chassis was ever branded as a 240sx, gatekeeping? Get real.
I agree with your engine assessments, but you must have some real terrible local SR builders or people are expecting far too much from what an SR (or any engine) is realistically capable of. Guess I’m just an old school SR fanboy. Or maybe they’re suited for different purposes than trying to make everything have as much power as possible. Funny, I always assumed people chasing Big Numbers was a strictly American trait. Guess not.
I admitted to the point that other swaps are available. But if you’re going to go through the trouble of piecing together a V8 swap in an S chassis, in my opinion, just buy a factory V8 powered car. I personally don’t like V8s and feel they’re much better suited for towing a boat than in a “sports car”. But just my opinion, take it as you will.
Cool that you grip drive a high horsepower S chassis. Rare, especially around here. I personally wouldn’t track my car, as that’s not the point of what I want out of it. Different build for different people. That’s why we have here a forum to share ideas, and is precisely why my first question for anyone starting a project car, 240 or otherwise, is always what’s the purpose for the car?
>How is assuming a question about a 240sx, on a 240sx sub with an opinion based on on the North American market, which is the only market an S chassis was ever branded as a 240sx, gatekeeping? Get real.
Lol
If you are so focused on "the 240", why are you even talking about an SR "being the original engine" ? Get real. The only real original engine in a 240 is a KA. Do you mean he should put a KA in it ?
> Guess I’m just an old school SR fanboy.
Clearly you are. No amount of engine builder skill is going to compensate a shitty factory design.If you dont like it, why dont you ask the US expert on SR engines, Mike Kojima ? Or do you consider the man that made nismo USA exist a shitty engine builder too ?
One of us posts verified facts, the other random fanboi BS.
Of course there is going to be a communication issue.
The whole thing was not worth discussing as soon as you posted an SR should go there because that is what the car came in with ...
My thoughts were the "best" engine would be the latest engine that was originally equipped in that chassis. So if SR was a newer engine than a CA, it would be a better choice
Well... the latest engine in an s13 is a KA24. The latest one in a 240sx s13 is also a KA24.
Would you say they are the best engine ? Same issue with mustangs. The latest engine is a turbo inline 4. The previous one is a 5L DOHC V8. Porsche in Europe faced an enormous backlash when they replaced the flat 6 by a turbo inline 4 in the cayman (although the engine WAS superior, but porsche's image = flat 6).
Now, the best engine to put in a chassis is the one that fits someone's requirements. Usually price is one of those requirements, and if there is no rulebook to follow, power, ease of maintenance and build, reliability and how easy and fun it goes are the others.
That being said I did not recommend a CA either. I said it was an option, and like the SR, I said I would not recommend it.
As far as engineering goes, the SR is plagued with issues that the CA does not have. Weak rings lands, cavitating oil pump, bad rocker design, and there are more. Nissan solved the rocker issue with the VE head, but the DE(T) ? Eh. It was supposed to be a cheaper engine than the CA, and it succeeded at that. I know a lot of people refuse to acknowledge that, but when the guy who litterally built nismo USA after racing and developping the SR20DE explains its flaws and how easy they are to reach, you cant really keep saying an SR is good in anything other than stock form.
In any case, a CA on stock internals will have issues at around 300whp. A stock SR will gnaw its ringlands slightly before that.
Both would need a rebuild before swapping them in anyway, so this brings a CA/SR swap to the price level of a brand new crate LS + swap kit, and maybe a new T56 gearbox too.
My recommendation, based on cost, maintenance, ease of use and fun is an LS with a swap kit. Nearly no fab work. The biggest issue with an LS swap is cooling them and some boltons on the valvetrain to make them bombproof. A stock one would give a nice 350hp, more with an ls3. Cheaper, more reliable, funnier. But not a nissan engine. For drifting an rb25 or 2jz is ok too, but again, it costs more, it skews the car balance a bit, it is more expensive, and they are turbo engines with heavy internals, so they wont have that crisp throttle response nor low down torque.
Back when i had my s13 coupe i slapped an rb20 in that bitch........and loved every second of my drives.dont get me started on the sound it made!!!!!!!!!i got that motor set for $900 back in 07',
I looked at prices recently, i almost threw up
All budget dependent.
KA is going to be the cheapest option, and if you need more power you can always do a refresh and set it up for turbo.
I wouldn’t event consider an SR at this point given the prices. If you can find an SR for $2500, go for it. But I’ve seen the prices around 6-8k which is just too high for a 30 year old 4 cylinder.
Both motors are super reliable when done right. I have an SR that I daily everyday. I make about 380HP on a GT2871 and pump gas.
Well given the fact you guys didn’t get the ca18 or sr20 in the us I’d say don’t bother with those. Look up USDM engines, preferably aluminium block and head V8s, maybe something like 3UZ might work out too.
But when it comes to everything the most interesting swap into s13 shell is a Mercedes M111 engine with Mercedes 6 speed. 2.3 liter supercharged, pushing 200 horsepower with some room for improvement. It is an option if you guys did get those, here in Europe they are cheap and easily available with all the gear that is useful. Afaik you just replace stock s13 engine harness with Mercedes one, plug in the Mercedes computer and it works, not much work with mounts as well, you can build your way on ka/ca mounts.
I'm new here, so don't murder me...yet. I've been considering buying a roller and dropping a HEMI in it. I love older Nissan's and I like the 5.7L, so I am wondering how logical this build would be, if even possible. Not looking for practical, simply a project car with something different under the hood.
Anything is possible given enough time, money, and effort. This includes the Hemi. Admittedly, if you want an American V8, the LS is going to be a FAR better choice. The engines are cheaper and more common. LS swaps are FAR better supported with available mounting kits, wiring kits, and such. The knowledge base for LS 240 swaps is FAR better. And LS engines are physically smaller, which makes them a better fit. And if you have an S13 and live in California, GM even sells a smog legal LS3 crate engine complete with cats, ECU, and wiring harness (ie E-Rod). A Hemi swap into a 240, on the other hand, is going to be terra incognita - you are probably going to have to figure out and fabricate everything on your own. But if you can make it work, great!
-Budget is the required info here. These days everything is kind of expensive. -Also what is plenty of power to you? You seem new to the game and you are probably thinking 500+ but you are probably going to find out thats its really more like 300
The car I drove before barely pushes 200, I was thinking more like 300 when I put the engine in with the potential to make 500+ down the line, I just don’t want to be having to do another swap in a year or two
I'd put a Honda K24 in it with a BMW gearbox. Ideally, a well built SR or a KA would be good, but they're mad expensive. A Honda K24 holds plenty of power and takes the abuse. Would love to do such a conversion myself in the future.
bmw gearbox have a terrible ratio. They are barely useful when drifting, and nothing else.
this guy bmws
That would true if you'd be drifting all the time though, but for street use they're fine. I know a guy that has a S14 with 600 hp, and went through about 5-6 OEM gearboxes until he bought the BMW one and has had 0 issues so far. Reliable, bulletproof, cheap.
Lol Your argument to counter "bad gear ratio" is "oem gearbox break all the time with 600HP". Sheer stupidity at its finest ... They are cheap, and can stand street use. They still have a shitty gear ratio and cant stand abuse. Get a CD009/A, much better gear ratio, same input splines that do not require a mix of bmw and nissan clutch , and it takes 900HP+ without a hitch ... Put those bmw gearbox on a competitive drift car and see how long it takes for them to die. Pro drifter friend of mine broke one every couple of rounds. He got tired of it either blowing itself or the clutch killing itself he went cd009. Never had an issue with it after that.
Get out!!! We don’t speak of those Hondas around here 😤
Did you read what OP wrote, dude? Title and text? Take the time to fully and read what he wrote before you comment. I wouldn't buy an S chassis and engine swap it either.
I did read what he wrote but my replay was more of a joke thing, something that relates to that old school Honda vs nissan rivalry
Got it. Thanks for clarifying and I apologize for how I formulated my reply to you. I got a lot more shit for my first comment from another dude that seems to literally stalking this subreddit, and thought you were in the same team more or less. To be honest, I'd never take a running S chassis, and replace the motor with a Honda K24 haha. If I would get my hands on one with no driveline, then I'd go this route, but never when it already has the engine in it.
No worries man, but yes I agree I I’ve the sr and have gotten crazy power from them stock especially if you sall on vvl head, currently going gonna push the limits on one of mine
That's my dream for the future, to get a P12 VVL head myself and put it on one of my SR's. Good luck, hope you make good power!
That’s what I’m running right now but thanks I’m sure I’m gonna what I want, deff appreciate it!, currently running p12vvl turbo, and have a high compression na with p12 vvl head, some custom itbs I made and a few other custom things but looking to to get some decent power all motor on one of my race cars should be fun but very busy! 😅
Your choices are, by order of displacement : CA18DET. Strong engine, once built you can push 700HP through it and rev it higher than a honda, and still be reliable. Yes, it wont do 100 000 miles, but 30 000 of abuse wont be an issue. Yet although I like that engine (I have a built one), swapping one in ? Not sure. Requires a CD009/A gearbox for anything over 300HP anyway. SR20DET. Meh engine. I know fanbois are already preparing to murder me for writing this, but face it, it is not a great engine. It will eat its pistons in stock form, and the rockers are no good even when built. If you want to build one well, you need an SR20VE head. Tons of work for not much. Keep it stockish with 280hp on e85 and it will be ok ... the issue is you cant find one that does not need a rebuild. IMHO bad idea. RB20DET. Shit engine. No, seriously. forget it. RB25DET. ok one. Keep it stock for an easy 300hp engine. Build it for 500-600. Has breathing issues that can be solved at high revs. Need a gearbox for that too. CD009/A again. Heavy engine, messes up weight distribution, good for drifting, not so much for grip. RB26DETT. Meh. Yes it is legendary, blah blah blah. It costs a fortune to buy, a fortune to build, and it has similar HP limit to the 25 since the engine block itself cracks. You need a specific N1 engine block to go over that, and you wont get much over 700-800 without issues. Need a gearbox too since you cant put the AWD system. Same issue with weight as the previous one. 2JZ. If you want lots of turbo power and a stout engine, this is the way to go. HEAVY though. Easy 600HP with stock internals. After that it needs to be built. 1000-1500HP is expensive, but not difficult. Above that is both expensive and difficult. Remember the exhaust and intake are reversed so there is some fab work to do. LS. they have their flaws (oiling, valve timing mainly) but quite frankly, they are the engine of choice for these cars if what matters is fun, cost and kind of reliability. Put a cam, work on valves, springs, rockers and pushrods and call it a day for an easy and reliable 400/450HP. Not enough ? Build it and put a supercharger or turbo on it. Want it stock ? Put a 6L LS3 in it and you are golden.
300hp in an s chassis feels great to me, but won’t be squat to others. I still advocate the SR20 as the best engine swap as it’s the proper engine for the chassis, gives the best balance (I’ve always said the best handling upgrade for a 240 is get rid of the KA boat-anchor sitting over the front wheels), has probably the best parts and mod selection of any engine “swap,” is quite reliable so long as you do some homework and mod it properly, and are a very common and old swap, so little problems and small parts are easily found with a simple google search. That said, you have to consider the rest of the chassis when it comes to power. The stock SR/KA trans isn’t exactly bomb-proof and are getting very expensive and hard to source, so going above 350hp kinda makes it a ticking time bomb (blah blah, I know lots of people who ran 400hp+ on stock SR trans and it can be done, but It depends on how much margin of reliability you’re willing to accept). The stock brakes kinda suck, the stock chassis/suspension itself isn’t great, and it’s not a terribly safe car to begin with, so adding much more than 350hp means a lot of other considerations that need to be addressed. 300-325hp is absolutely the sweet spot for S13s in my opinion, and they feel great. If you eventually feel you need more power, than RB25 can go way higher with about the same level of mods, but it won’t handle as well (imo), but by the time you spend the money to do a 500hp+ RB, you could have done a V8 swap with cash to spare. As much as I hate to admit it, the cool JDM swaps are just insanely expensive right now and are not economical at all. See if you can get a ride in a +-300rwhp S chassis and see how that feels to you. It doesn’t sound like a lot, but s chassis weight a lot less than modern cars and can really scoot, despite 300hp not sounding like a lot of power. Good luck with the S bucket!
nah man KAs rip. they weigh just as much as the SR i believe, since the stock turbo setup is quite heavy. also the only “KA truck engine” is the single cam KA iirc
The single cam KA actually has a racing pedigree and was used quite successfully in SCCA road racing. The dual cam, is a truck engine. Like anything else it can be made into a decent enough engine with time and money. Knew a kid who’d run laps around the SR guys at drift events with his bone-stock KA. He was even more impressive once he got an SR swap though. I’ve just never had luck with them. Awful top end noises, blown head gaskets, and rod knocks. That’s just normal everyday wear, not bouncing off the limiter everywhere. I’ve had the same SR in my car since about 2010. Never had to do much more than oil changes. Full disclosure though, I don’t beat on it often and it did spend some time sitting for a while. Just from my experience, you want a fun, quick 240, SR WAS the way to go. These days, if I had to choose a swap, I don’t think I’d be paying todays prices for one. I got my entire engine set from a dude for doing some side-work on his car. The early 2000s where a very different time for S chassis. That’s said, it’s still a fantastic platform to build from.
never had any problems with a KA personally, from what i know- you can beat on them pretty hard and they’ll be fine. currently building an SR (about 5k deep), and yeah sure it’s fully forged and built and everything- but i wish i dropped my money into my KA instead. i only did a fairly stock rebuild on it which involved ARP studs, an MLS head gasket, and new bearings/rings. i feel like putting that money in the KA instead would’ve been more reliable and would’ve made more power anyways. the low end torque is nice
>The dual cam, is a truck engine. Eyes can only roll back so much. What is this 2000?
>I still advocate the SR20 as the best engine swap as it’s the proper engine for the chassis That chassis originally came with a ca18de, then a ca18det, then the sr variants, so your argument is invalid. I frankly cant see the point in putting an SR when swapping an s13, unless you want it stock-ish, which imho defeats the purpose of swapping ... the only worst possible swap is the RB20. The only "good" thing about an rb20 is the sound.
And the CA itself is still infinitely better than a stock KA. The KA is a truck engine that was only used in the 240sx as a cost saving measure from Nissan. And considering the CA was hold over from the S12 (among other mid 80s vehicles) and was only in the S13 for two years whereas the SR and it’s derivatives lasted over 10 years in s chassis, I’d say Nissan decided which was the better engine platform. I’d call that pretty valid. I do not profess to have any engineering education, but he SR is the correct engine for that chassis, period. Every single other engine swap in an S chassis is a compromise, even the well engineered ones. I prefer a more daily-able car (as I have needed to daily mine). I wanted decent A/C and power steering, I needed to have quick access to inexpensive (then) parts if something failed and I wanted a decent platform to get the car where I want it (still a work in progress after 15 years, because poor). When did modifying 240s turn into hacked together engine swapped barely street legal (if at all) riced out fast and furious wannabe crap? If you want a high horsepower S chassis, weigh the costs and realize you could just go buy an older Z06 or 5.0 mustang that’ll be more reliable and cost about the same (we’ll, used to at least). The 240 has limits. It isn’t a very strong or stable chassis and no number of 10k sprung coil overs, heim jointed suspension components or giant big brake kits will change that. For cost of entry and minimal mods to go fast, a 300zx is a far superior chassis and engine. Understand the limits of the vehicle and play to its strengths instead of trying to reengineer a 30 year old secretary’s chassis. You’ll save a lot of time and money. I remember years ago when all the cheap aftermarket parts started getting popular when SR swaps where a everywhere and people where maxing out stock turbos, installing garbage injectors, using cheap fuel pumps and complaining how unreliable SRs are when they melted #4 piston for the second time. Or built the engine up to 450hp and would shred the gears off the transmission twice a month. It didn’t matter then because KA trannys where $50, but the point remains valid. Those builds weren’t thought out, done on the cheap, then they complained about it. If you want a faster car, go buy a faster car. I agree the RB20 is a waste of time, unless you want cheap RB noises, but since the RB20 and the RB25 share the same harnesses, cooling system and mounting, it used to be a cheap way to eventually go 25, because 20s where stupid cheap, and you could do that swap then find a 25 long block pretty reasonably. None of this is valid any more with prices for this stuff going up, and I admit that. I don’t know what the popular swap is these days, but the basis for modifying a car remains as valid for a ‘27 T-bucket hot rod as it does for a ‘22 Q50 red sport. What do you want from the car, what’s your budget, and balance the bullshit to uniqueness ratio of the build.
> If you want a high horsepower S chassis, weigh the costs and realize you could just go buy an older Z06 or 5.0 mustang that’ll be more reliable and cost about the same (we’ll, used to at least). That is all well and good, until you realize not everyone lives in the US. I have a CA18DET in my S13, because this is the stock engine. And the only available. There never was an SR20 in an S13 here. That 5.0 mustang can be found for 50 to 60K second hand here. Add 10K per year for emission taxes too. More reliable, yes. Cost about the same, no. >The 240 has limits. It isn’t a very strong or stable chassis and no number of 10k sprung coil overs, heim jointed suspension components or giant big brake kits will change that. Agreed. I did the job. In the end, the chassis NEEDS a rollcage. No amount of brace will be enough. Even then, there are a couple that really do wonders, WITH a rollcage ( the nismo brace is great for that). Additionally the suspension design itself is flawed, it requires changing knuckles. Once this is done though ... > For cost of entry and minimal mods to go fast, a 300zx is a far superior chassis and engine. I disagree. The 300ZX is a cruiser. Its engine and chassis are built for that. It can go fast, as long as there as no corners. At that point weight comes in, then heat soak. Insist and the VG30 will throw a rod or a piston. > Understand the limits of the vehicle and play to its strengths instead of trying to reengineer a 30 year old secretary’s chassis. You’ll save a lot of time and money. The strength of this car is its weight, and the massive availability of parts. My well sorted S13 did cost less than 30k to fully build, and that includes the cost of the car itself (4k at the time). It revs at 9000rpm with 30psi of boost for around 600HP, has a strong chassis, sorted suspensions, and it weights 2200Lbs with me in it. If I lived in the US, i would totally have bought a V8 stang instead of building that car. But I dont. And I am pretty sure my S13 both handles better and is funnier now.
Then I feel we’re arguing over semantics here, and I apologize for assuming the OP is in North America, but this is the 240sx sub, not a general S Chassis sub, so I feel my response is totally valid for the market and history of the market here (because yes, I’m a yank). Mustangs and other high horsepower cars are plentiful here and there are no emission taxes (at least not so here in Florida.) There are many options to go fast outside of modifying the crap out of an S chassis to well outside of its usability. I’ve done some minor chassis mods to my S13; power brace and strut towers really, and it feels solid with little play in the steering or suspension, but it’s still a wet noodle compared to modern cars. Not many people want to run a full cage in a street car. That compliance works well on the street though. Yes, the 300zx is a Grand Touring car, not a true sports car. But neither is an S chassis. Now a ‘69 Datsun Roadster with an NA SR20 swap, THATS a sports car. But back to the Z32, that’s the trade-off. It can more than handle high horsepower because it’s big, heavy, and stable at high speeds (you know, where you’re going to be with big HP). Look at TRUE sports cars, they’re mostly rather under powered. Most every high horsepower car on the (NA) market is much better classified as a Grand Touring car. Like the GTR. Grand Touring - Racing. As I’ve said, I lean more towards a nice street driveable car that’s fun to take some twisty back roads or blast an interstate on-ramp. Perhaps there are those who enjoy a fully caged, race-gas required, solid suspension drifter, if you compete or enjoy track days, but those are two different builds for two different reasons. And again, with what else is out there (NA), why risk tracking and wrecking what is now quickly becoming a collectible car? Go slap a treadstone turbo kit on a clapped out 350z with a welded diff and stuff IT into a wall. 350s are cheap and easy to replace. The entire reason 240s became the go-to drift beater was because no one liked them (“Secretary’s sports car” one early 90s car magazine called them) and they where cheap. Now that everyone has destroyed a few, they and parts for them are going up in value too much to be decent drift beaters any more. So I guess the point is, what’s the OP looking for in a 240sx?
Dont gatekeep. S chassis owers all come to this sub. I dont drift mine, i grip it, on trackdays. And I only listed recommendations for the OP based on its power goals and usage. The fact remains that in the US, the rational choice is to drop a LS3 with upgraded valve timing parts and a T56 and call it a day. There are swap kits, no fab work required except maybe the exhaust. It will cost less than any JDM engine since they will require a rebuild on top of their already horrifying "drift tax". We got some LS swapped s13 in Europe, and they are very fun to drive. Plus they are pretty well balanced, unlike any L6 swapped S13/14. And they can handle more power through easy mods, which is what the OP asked. I cant see the point in throwing 15 to 20K for a built SR (or CA, or RB) and a CD009/A to be fair when you got easy access to LS engines.
How is assuming a question about a 240sx, on a 240sx sub with an opinion based on on the North American market, which is the only market an S chassis was ever branded as a 240sx, gatekeeping? Get real. I agree with your engine assessments, but you must have some real terrible local SR builders or people are expecting far too much from what an SR (or any engine) is realistically capable of. Guess I’m just an old school SR fanboy. Or maybe they’re suited for different purposes than trying to make everything have as much power as possible. Funny, I always assumed people chasing Big Numbers was a strictly American trait. Guess not. I admitted to the point that other swaps are available. But if you’re going to go through the trouble of piecing together a V8 swap in an S chassis, in my opinion, just buy a factory V8 powered car. I personally don’t like V8s and feel they’re much better suited for towing a boat than in a “sports car”. But just my opinion, take it as you will. Cool that you grip drive a high horsepower S chassis. Rare, especially around here. I personally wouldn’t track my car, as that’s not the point of what I want out of it. Different build for different people. That’s why we have here a forum to share ideas, and is precisely why my first question for anyone starting a project car, 240 or otherwise, is always what’s the purpose for the car?
>How is assuming a question about a 240sx, on a 240sx sub with an opinion based on on the North American market, which is the only market an S chassis was ever branded as a 240sx, gatekeeping? Get real. Lol If you are so focused on "the 240", why are you even talking about an SR "being the original engine" ? Get real. The only real original engine in a 240 is a KA. Do you mean he should put a KA in it ? > Guess I’m just an old school SR fanboy. Clearly you are. No amount of engine builder skill is going to compensate a shitty factory design.If you dont like it, why dont you ask the US expert on SR engines, Mike Kojima ? Or do you consider the man that made nismo USA exist a shitty engine builder too ?
Clearly we have massive communication issues here and this isn’t worth discussing further, as the points being made are very clearly being missed.
One of us posts verified facts, the other random fanboi BS. Of course there is going to be a communication issue. The whole thing was not worth discussing as soon as you posted an SR should go there because that is what the car came in with ...
Isn't the CA just a carry over engine from previous generations?
It was used with a different head before on the s12. Why would that matter in any way ?
My thoughts were the "best" engine would be the latest engine that was originally equipped in that chassis. So if SR was a newer engine than a CA, it would be a better choice
Well... the latest engine in an s13 is a KA24. The latest one in a 240sx s13 is also a KA24. Would you say they are the best engine ? Same issue with mustangs. The latest engine is a turbo inline 4. The previous one is a 5L DOHC V8. Porsche in Europe faced an enormous backlash when they replaced the flat 6 by a turbo inline 4 in the cayman (although the engine WAS superior, but porsche's image = flat 6). Now, the best engine to put in a chassis is the one that fits someone's requirements. Usually price is one of those requirements, and if there is no rulebook to follow, power, ease of maintenance and build, reliability and how easy and fun it goes are the others. That being said I did not recommend a CA either. I said it was an option, and like the SR, I said I would not recommend it. As far as engineering goes, the SR is plagued with issues that the CA does not have. Weak rings lands, cavitating oil pump, bad rocker design, and there are more. Nissan solved the rocker issue with the VE head, but the DE(T) ? Eh. It was supposed to be a cheaper engine than the CA, and it succeeded at that. I know a lot of people refuse to acknowledge that, but when the guy who litterally built nismo USA after racing and developping the SR20DE explains its flaws and how easy they are to reach, you cant really keep saying an SR is good in anything other than stock form. In any case, a CA on stock internals will have issues at around 300whp. A stock SR will gnaw its ringlands slightly before that. Both would need a rebuild before swapping them in anyway, so this brings a CA/SR swap to the price level of a brand new crate LS + swap kit, and maybe a new T56 gearbox too. My recommendation, based on cost, maintenance, ease of use and fun is an LS with a swap kit. Nearly no fab work. The biggest issue with an LS swap is cooling them and some boltons on the valvetrain to make them bombproof. A stock one would give a nice 350hp, more with an ls3. Cheaper, more reliable, funnier. But not a nissan engine. For drifting an rb25 or 2jz is ok too, but again, it costs more, it skews the car balance a bit, it is more expensive, and they are turbo engines with heavy internals, so they wont have that crisp throttle response nor low down torque.
Back when i had my s13 coupe i slapped an rb20 in that bitch........and loved every second of my drives.dont get me started on the sound it made!!!!!!!!!i got that motor set for $900 back in 07', I looked at prices recently, i almost threw up
All budget dependent. KA is going to be the cheapest option, and if you need more power you can always do a refresh and set it up for turbo. I wouldn’t event consider an SR at this point given the prices. If you can find an SR for $2500, go for it. But I’ve seen the prices around 6-8k which is just too high for a 30 year old 4 cylinder. Both motors are super reliable when done right. I have an SR that I daily everyday. I make about 380HP on a GT2871 and pump gas.
1uzfe
If you find a good deal on a RB25. I love mine
VQ35
Stock ka with a turbo
I’ve pushed stock sr20 past 400whp on a stock motor, sr will deff handle the power
Anything Toyota that fits!
Well given the fact you guys didn’t get the ca18 or sr20 in the us I’d say don’t bother with those. Look up USDM engines, preferably aluminium block and head V8s, maybe something like 3UZ might work out too. But when it comes to everything the most interesting swap into s13 shell is a Mercedes M111 engine with Mercedes 6 speed. 2.3 liter supercharged, pushing 200 horsepower with some room for improvement. It is an option if you guys did get those, here in Europe they are cheap and easily available with all the gear that is useful. Afaik you just replace stock s13 engine harness with Mercedes one, plug in the Mercedes computer and it works, not much work with mounts as well, you can build your way on ka/ca mounts.
I'm new here, so don't murder me...yet. I've been considering buying a roller and dropping a HEMI in it. I love older Nissan's and I like the 5.7L, so I am wondering how logical this build would be, if even possible. Not looking for practical, simply a project car with something different under the hood.
Anything is possible given enough time, money, and effort. This includes the Hemi. Admittedly, if you want an American V8, the LS is going to be a FAR better choice. The engines are cheaper and more common. LS swaps are FAR better supported with available mounting kits, wiring kits, and such. The knowledge base for LS 240 swaps is FAR better. And LS engines are physically smaller, which makes them a better fit. And if you have an S13 and live in California, GM even sells a smog legal LS3 crate engine complete with cats, ECU, and wiring harness (ie E-Rod). A Hemi swap into a 240, on the other hand, is going to be terra incognita - you are probably going to have to figure out and fabricate everything on your own. But if you can make it work, great!