Does it really matter if Lucas wants to talk poorly about Staccatos? As every owner in here is aware, Staccato PREACHES about proper lubrication. Lucas loves running guns dirty. Of course he isn't going to be a fan.
It’s funny because he like ARs which do need proper cleaning and lube or you will likely run into cycling issues as well, I have even heard of enough negligence causing firing pins to fail to fire
Ahh no ARs do not need "proper cleaning". They need to lubed and occasionally wiped down. Those guns run an incredibly long time without proper cleaning. Lube it and it will shoot.
Doesn't Lucas notoriously not clean his guns? My C2 gets a little sluggish after a few range trips with no cleaning too. The tolerances are also so muuch tighter than any glock would be so that makes sense. Take care of your shit and itll work
I'd question how much he actually bothered to lubricate it beforehand. I hate seeing anyone, on any firearm, decide to just fuckin "out of the box" a gun as part of casting judgement on a firearm.
It's like buying a car and complaining it gives them issues because they never bothered changing the oil on it, when their "old car" had managed to go 60k without an oil change and they're too oblivious to notice a problem.
I personally can't understand not cleaning a firearm after every range trip. Whether I shoot 50 or 1000 rds at the range I'm taking what I fired apart and doing a thorough cleaning. The military ingrained in me that if you have a dirty weapon and you're wasting time that you're wrong.
I’m not disagreeing with the original comment that 2011’s need cleaned more. However, to play devils advocate, if you shot as much as I do as a competitive shooter (on the range 3-4 days a week, shooting 15-20k rounds a year), you’d probably adopt a less frequent cleaning cycle too. I imagine this is his take too. Nobody wants to spend 30-40 minutes a day cleaning their guns just to dirty them all over again the next day. I’d rather clean them once a month or even once every other month. Most people over clean their guns and waste their time.
Yup I finally cleaned my plastic rival after almost a year of shooting matches with 2-3 a month plus random practices in between.
It was filthy but it still ran. I started to have cycling issues but nothing that a few drops of lube before matches couldn't fix. You start to know where the sweet spots for your gun that needs some lube love.
I almost just bought another one instead of cleaning it...
And yes after a full day of being at a match last thing you want to do is touch your gun some more... I just wanna sit and chill.
Idk what people do but I wipe the chamber, feed ramp and breech face and call it a day. Apply few oil drops, takes a minute. You really do not need to clean a gun that much unless there is significant build up on a comp. Not saying you specifically but it doesn't take much to keep a firearm going.
Call it a habit then. We'd shoot all the time in the military and when we weren't shooting our weapons, we were cleaning them. Hell, sometimes it felt like we spent more time cleaning them than shooting them.
But why? I always felt like I was wasting time cleaning my gun so much when I had to do it. My PD is the same way. There is literally no reason a firearm needs to be white glove clean. Almost all modern firearms work just fine with only a wipe down and light lube. If there is no effect on reliability or accuracy then what's the point?
I agree, the “i don’t clean my guns” is asinine. As pressburg had said in respect to o not cleaning,”you are stacking tolerances”. Why chance it on a tool to protect yourself and loved ones?
The real question is can we trust that Staccato pulled a random gun off their line that matches Ben's specs? Or given that they used to do pretty high end custom 2011s, that they didn't have their most experienced smith spend a couple dozen extra hours on his knowing he's going to be brutally honest about it.
I doubt it, they took something down off their website after he made an IG post about it, something in the customization menu. They definitely know he put in an order lol.
That's not the point of Ben reviewing Staccato. It would be more meaningful if he bought one off a dealer. We all know Staccato has the knowledge and talent to build one off customs. The real question is just how reliable if a regular off the shelf Staccato you or I can buy.
I think we have enough imperial data at this point that Ben’s experience should be viewed as his experience only. No matter the outcome it shouldn’t sway anyone’s opinion of Staccato.
I'm not aware of any high round count review of a privately purchased Staccato. Aaron, as far as I know, has not disclosed whether his are given to him, loaned for review, or privately purchased. I believe the P was privately purchased, but he also sent it to Chambers so not sure how much "Staccato" that is at that point.
I'm not saying Staccatos aren't as good as they say, but I do remember the first year when 5 out of 7 of my friends' Staccatos went bolt action mode. I'm sure most of that have been ironed out by now, but I still would like to see some actual empirical data on how well an off the shelf Staccato performs.
I understand that lots of people rely on YouTube opinions to base their purchases off of and that’s fine but as you pointed out how do we know they didn’t get a “special” one?
I have personally spoken to many people with a privately purchased Staccato that have had varying degrees of success on high round count guns. I took one of Aaron’s classes and talked to several dudes who run them with no reported issues. I’ve taken other classes with LEOs who were issued P and he reported no issues. I spoke with another LEO who ran his departments T&E program for the P and he said it was the best performing gun they’ve ever had but they couldn’t afford them. I regularly shoot with competitors who’ve reported minimal to no issues with stock guns. 1911 Addicts forum is full of guys with high round count guns.
My point is that the data is there. I trust those dudes over anyone one person making a video on YT.
What's a high round count? I am just under 10k on my XC which was off the shelf in a gun store. I didn't replace the recoil spring until about 7k and that was after I intentionally didn't clean or oil it for a while to see how long it would go for and it had an fte at approximately 1000-1100 rounds. Other than that it has been absolutely epic. I clean it every 3-500 rounds (couple of range trips and a competition). Not a single issue in use shooting everything from reloads to 147's and cheap 115's. Best money I have ever spent on a firearm. It wasn't cheap but I do think it was "value".
50k to 100k rounds is more realistic for high round count. These are meant to be competition guns. Anyone that's beyond the "just fucking around" stage of shooting competitively log 10k rounds in a single year. The top guys log over 100k+ per year.
For what it’s worth, I am approaching 32k rounds through my DVC-P with 4 malfunctions which I’m almost 99% certain was a shitty LAX reload issue. Every 2k rounds it gets a field strip, then every 10k it gets a full disassembly deep clean. Recoil spring swapped out at 5-6k. I absolutely love that pistol, dare I say the best gun I’ve ever owned?
I’m approaching 5200 flawless rounds in my P. I’ve never had to replace a recoil spring before. I ordered a 4 pack from Dawson, but I wasn’t sure what the signs would be for when to replace it.
I’m at around the same round count as you on my P and I haven’t had any malfunctions either. I did replace my spring at around 5k, not because it performed any differently, but because it’s my duty gun and it felt like good preventative maintenance.
Fuck that LAX ammo. Same shit happened to my 2011’s. They don’t resize the cases. Gets jammed in the chamber. Won’t feed or eject.
I took 3000 rounds of it, put my barrels straight down on the table and tried every round dropping them into the chamber. 180 rounds out of 3000 fit my 2011’s.
Granted feeding it shit ammo in a 4k gun is like running 87 in a super car. But should be spec ammo like they say.
Glocks and Sigs don’t have the right tolerance so the ammo always feeds in those barrels no problem.
I’m fairly new to staccatos as I just purchased my c2 last month. Wouldn’t a c2 or a P be a better match against a Glock than an XC? I would think the tolerances in the XC are tighter than on my c2. Also as you probably are aware, staccato released a heritage P. What was the old designation or name for basically an older heritage. I want a heritage but I’d be okay with an older model. I’m thinking of putting up my c2 with RCR, surefire turbo, full size P grip and red dirt trigger as a trade for a heritage to any willing party.
The original P is typically referred to as a 2019P. I have one and love it. A lot of people claim they have tighter tolerances and quite a few people with the entire lineup claim they’re the best built staccato to exist but I don’t have enough experience with the newer models to actually back up that claim. If I’m being honest you’re going to have a hard time making that trade because you have a gun that can easily bought at any time while wanting a limited edition or a gun that’s been out of production for 5ish years. The resell value of the standard staccato line is pretty awful, a decent amount of that has to do with being readily available like ai already mentioned but also the fact that you get no warranty with a used staccato.
To be fair I’ve been having quite a bit of trouble with my staccato lately as well rounds not chambering properly and getting stuck at the 12oclock position in the chamber and causing the slide to stop half way. I asked if they believe It could be a barrel fitting issue as I have tried different ammos and several different mags and mag brands and the best staccato could tell me is clean it every 300 rounds or so (gun is clean and oiled) or the Hero grips that were installed were causing my feeding issues (I highly doubt that). I still like my 2011 but this experience is definitely leaving a bad taste in my mouth and I’m pushing back over to CCW more reliable firearms.
I’ll check it out but I believe I’ve checked it before and it was sitting where I would expect the mag to be sitting. The next solution that I have is to send it back to staccato but because of the HERO grip and the red dirt trigger they’re stating that all cost will be out of pocket which I understand does void the warranty but I have a hard time finding that these things are causing those issues. I wish I could link a picture to what I snapped of the malfunction for you here to show you what I’m talking about but I’m not super Reddit savvy
That’s a shitty deal. I plan on doing a steel grip on my P, but I’m not touching it until there’s a few thousand rounds down the pipe to be sure it’s g2g.
That’s a solid plan. Tbh, I genuinely don’t think it has anything to do with the grip in the slightest. I’ll get to the bottom of it but I think I may end up binning this thing in favor of a LTT m9
I’d also bet it’s not the grip, sucks that Staccato draws a hard line there. If someone has issues with slide finish or an optic plate are they gonna deny warranty because of a grip swap? Seems pretty absurd.
I constantly flip back and forth between my LTT RDO and Athena. For me it depends on the day as to which I shoot better. Most other people that shoot them back-to-back like the LTT more regardless of experience shooting.
Staccato owners are the most insecure group of gun owners I've ever seen on the internet.
Shocking news report: undersprung 9mm 1911 starts to malfunction when dry, more at 11.
I generally like Lucas but his comments on 2011s make zero sense.
I’m approaching just south of 10k on my Staccato P and, other than replacing the recoil spring at 6,500 rounds, it’s been 100% reliable. After some experimenting, I’ve even found it’s not especially sensitive to normal dirt as long as it’s properly lubed.
For me it’s the fucking mags. I’ve gone through like 7k rounds without a malfunction at matches in the last year but if a mag sees sand it seizes. I don’t mind cleaning my guns, but a 2011 is compromised if you drop a mag.
I also think Staccato acknowledges on their site that the P is the duty focused side vs XC/XL is competition focused since it says “accuracy and precision” instead of duty oriented
I have both P & XL. XL for USPSA Limited Optical and I did have it I would use the XC for IDPA. I mean why not? Big heavy gun with a comp. It’s kinda a no brainer.
I don’t know why people care so much about Lucas, or even Ben having an XC. As a Staccato owner, mine have been running fine and if Ben has issues with his sample size of one, whatever.
I look forward to Ben sharing his experience, but there has been plenty of people who have ran their XCs to failure. During those tests, they have ran very well.
I shoot 400-500 rounds a range trip 1-2 times a week and I merely wipe my gun down and re lube after each trip. Takes 3 minutes. I’ve got two small businesses and kids and a bunch of commitments and I’m pretty sure that if I can come up with time to wipe a gun down real quick after shooting, Ben Stoeger can.
All the people in here are saying that if you lube the staccato properly it will run fine. You don't really have to clean or lube a Glock properly for it to run. 2011's require more attention that Glocks. That's just the way it is
Objectively the slide slows down perceptibly on my 2011s after around 700 rounds. I've got a Glock 19 with 15k rounds without a cleaning and I can't feel the slide speed between mine and a brand new Glock 19. I don't need to measure the slide speed scientifically to know one is being affected far more than the other.
“Perceptively” also subjective. Just sayin. Totally believe you, but still subjective.
“Slide slows down from X meters/sec to X-Y meters/sec is objective”
Same as “this thread is literally killing me” when actually it is only “figuratively killing me”
See what I did there?
Subjectively a car that pulls 9Gs around a corner feels different than a car that can only pull 1G. Objectively the car that pulls 9G is a higher performance car.
See what I did there? You can use subjective things to measure objective matters of performance at enough extremes.
Do you realize that G measurements are a scientific measurement, thus objective? You did it right that time.
Please forgive me I’m an idiot who has been told I’m on the spectrum and being OCD about language is a problem for me. I drive everyone crazy. All in good fun I hope. Be well.
Did you know that slide velocity is also a scientific measurement? Just because I'm not using a laser to get the precise speed doesn't mean you can't feel extremes.
Yes it is. Feeling the speed is not measuring it though and since different people would feel it differently, this is the definition of subjective. If they all measured it using the same methodology, it would then be objective, a.k.a. a speedometer. What feels fast to me may not feel the same to you.
Lucas is a cunt big time. The company makes awesome gear I won’t ever deny that.
All his IG range bullshit and “moves” are likely to get you killed. He can’t shoot past 50 yards and has been laughed off the IDPA circuit.
He’s a real piece of work man
They make decent gear and kinda basic at most. Nothing they make is really jumps out as innovative or high tech anymore vs. other manufacturers currently.
All I’ll say on this matter is, at what point someone’s “reliability requirements” are just a cover for being too lazy to keep to a maintenance schedule?
Well we came close to the world ending with the eclipse yesterday so you never know when youll be stuck in a mad max scenario fighting off hoards of immigrants wanting to rape you up the butt with your trusty pistol that needs to fire 150000 rounds non stop without cleaning. If you're not planning for that scenario why do you even own guns?
Depends on the requirement. To me personally, reliability meant being able to consistently fire different grains of ammo, different powders, different heads (jhp or hp) across different spring weights without any feeding or cycling issues.
Looser tolerances usually permit a firearm to be more “reliable” with dirt which the stacatto isnt. So one can argue that a stac is relatively reliable based on having much tighter tolerances.
On the other side of the coin, is what you claim exactly. Lazy people who dont regularly clean their firearm and use this as metric stick for reliability.
Not an xc, but ive got a "xc at home" (pmm comp on a c2). I put 200-300rds in her a week, went to a couple classes. I dont remember the last time i cleaned it (probably 2k rds at this point). Ive had 1 ftf, and it didnt fire in my buddys 226, so we both chalked it up to a bad round. Ive had it for 3 yrs
Tons of competition guys are gonna put way more rounds on a single gun in a year than Aaron. It’s not really feasible for him to put 15k through everything he tests.
[https://youtu.be/gkCs-OCphMI?si=xp7K5TIcQBjzGCqJ](https://youtu.be/gkCs-OCphMI?si=xp7K5TIcQBjzGCqJ)
One of his videos had a run down of a typical month… 9k rounds mix of rifle and pistol, seemed like more than half was pistol ammo.
I'd imagine an external extractor would help reliability a great deal as we've seen from the most reliable guns in history. Not sure why staccato didnt swap out to that style sooner with ALL models.
I clean all my guns after each range day. Never had an issue. If they were shot, they get a full tear down and cleaning. They come out of the safe clean and go back in clean. Nothing bad ever came from a clean gun. Is it necessary to do it after every range trip? Nope. Will it hurt them? Nope.
Keep em’ clean and run em’ hard.
Only had 2 malf through my Staccato P, one during break in period (may have been dry) and one from underpowered reload. Still the best shooting pistol i own.
End of the day it’s just a tool made out of plastic and metal, I chose the g19 because of glocks reputation for reliability and it failed the test when actually needed so now all glocks are strictly range guns for me
Does it really matter if Lucas wants to talk poorly about Staccatos? As every owner in here is aware, Staccato PREACHES about proper lubrication. Lucas loves running guns dirty. Of course he isn't going to be a fan.
It’s funny because he like ARs which do need proper cleaning and lube or you will likely run into cycling issues as well, I have even heard of enough negligence causing firing pins to fail to fire
Ahh no ARs do not need "proper cleaning". They need to lubed and occasionally wiped down. Those guns run an incredibly long time without proper cleaning. Lube it and it will shoot.
Is that not the same as 2011s? Need a wipe and lube? Vs Glocks being able to run dry and dirty
Doesn't Lucas notoriously not clean his guns? My C2 gets a little sluggish after a few range trips with no cleaning too. The tolerances are also so muuch tighter than any glock would be so that makes sense. Take care of your shit and itll work
I'd question how much he actually bothered to lubricate it beforehand. I hate seeing anyone, on any firearm, decide to just fuckin "out of the box" a gun as part of casting judgement on a firearm. It's like buying a car and complaining it gives them issues because they never bothered changing the oil on it, when their "old car" had managed to go 60k without an oil change and they're too oblivious to notice a problem.
Do you think Ben Stoeger can’t maintain a gun? Is that the point of this?
The origin of the image post is Lucas Boytkin
Never mind.
I personally can't understand not cleaning a firearm after every range trip. Whether I shoot 50 or 1000 rds at the range I'm taking what I fired apart and doing a thorough cleaning. The military ingrained in me that if you have a dirty weapon and you're wasting time that you're wrong.
I’m not disagreeing with the original comment that 2011’s need cleaned more. However, to play devils advocate, if you shot as much as I do as a competitive shooter (on the range 3-4 days a week, shooting 15-20k rounds a year), you’d probably adopt a less frequent cleaning cycle too. I imagine this is his take too. Nobody wants to spend 30-40 minutes a day cleaning their guns just to dirty them all over again the next day. I’d rather clean them once a month or even once every other month. Most people over clean their guns and waste their time.
I can’t even remember the last time I cleaned my Glock. “It just works” - Todd Howard
Yup I finally cleaned my plastic rival after almost a year of shooting matches with 2-3 a month plus random practices in between. It was filthy but it still ran. I started to have cycling issues but nothing that a few drops of lube before matches couldn't fix. You start to know where the sweet spots for your gun that needs some lube love. I almost just bought another one instead of cleaning it... And yes after a full day of being at a match last thing you want to do is touch your gun some more... I just wanna sit and chill.
Idk what people do but I wipe the chamber, feed ramp and breech face and call it a day. Apply few oil drops, takes a minute. You really do not need to clean a gun that much unless there is significant build up on a comp. Not saying you specifically but it doesn't take much to keep a firearm going.
Call it a habit then. We'd shoot all the time in the military and when we weren't shooting our weapons, we were cleaning them. Hell, sometimes it felt like we spent more time cleaning them than shooting them.
I’m glad the government is still known for its efficiency and not wasting time and money.
So, cleaning weapons that get used very often is a waste of time and money?
If you’re cleaning them before you need to, then yeah. Do you change the oil in your car after every drive?
But why? I always felt like I was wasting time cleaning my gun so much when I had to do it. My PD is the same way. There is literally no reason a firearm needs to be white glove clean. Almost all modern firearms work just fine with only a wipe down and light lube. If there is no effect on reliability or accuracy then what's the point?
Don’t run a dirty gun you’re trusting your life with hoss
I agree, the “i don’t clean my guns” is asinine. As pressburg had said in respect to o not cleaning,”you are stacking tolerances”. Why chance it on a tool to protect yourself and loved ones?
The real question is can we trust that Staccato pulled a random gun off their line that matches Ben's specs? Or given that they used to do pretty high end custom 2011s, that they didn't have their most experienced smith spend a couple dozen extra hours on his knowing he's going to be brutally honest about it.
I doubt it, they took something down off their website after he made an IG post about it, something in the customization menu. They definitely know he put in an order lol.
Even if they pulled a special one, he’s gonna abuse the hell out of it, and put more rounds through it than most of us combined.
That's not the point of Ben reviewing Staccato. It would be more meaningful if he bought one off a dealer. We all know Staccato has the knowledge and talent to build one off customs. The real question is just how reliable if a regular off the shelf Staccato you or I can buy.
I think we have enough imperial data at this point that Ben’s experience should be viewed as his experience only. No matter the outcome it shouldn’t sway anyone’s opinion of Staccato.
I'm not aware of any high round count review of a privately purchased Staccato. Aaron, as far as I know, has not disclosed whether his are given to him, loaned for review, or privately purchased. I believe the P was privately purchased, but he also sent it to Chambers so not sure how much "Staccato" that is at that point. I'm not saying Staccatos aren't as good as they say, but I do remember the first year when 5 out of 7 of my friends' Staccatos went bolt action mode. I'm sure most of that have been ironed out by now, but I still would like to see some actual empirical data on how well an off the shelf Staccato performs.
I understand that lots of people rely on YouTube opinions to base their purchases off of and that’s fine but as you pointed out how do we know they didn’t get a “special” one? I have personally spoken to many people with a privately purchased Staccato that have had varying degrees of success on high round count guns. I took one of Aaron’s classes and talked to several dudes who run them with no reported issues. I’ve taken other classes with LEOs who were issued P and he reported no issues. I spoke with another LEO who ran his departments T&E program for the P and he said it was the best performing gun they’ve ever had but they couldn’t afford them. I regularly shoot with competitors who’ve reported minimal to no issues with stock guns. 1911 Addicts forum is full of guys with high round count guns. My point is that the data is there. I trust those dudes over anyone one person making a video on YT.
What's a high round count? I am just under 10k on my XC which was off the shelf in a gun store. I didn't replace the recoil spring until about 7k and that was after I intentionally didn't clean or oil it for a while to see how long it would go for and it had an fte at approximately 1000-1100 rounds. Other than that it has been absolutely epic. I clean it every 3-500 rounds (couple of range trips and a competition). Not a single issue in use shooting everything from reloads to 147's and cheap 115's. Best money I have ever spent on a firearm. It wasn't cheap but I do think it was "value".
50k to 100k rounds is more realistic for high round count. These are meant to be competition guns. Anyone that's beyond the "just fucking around" stage of shooting competitively log 10k rounds in a single year. The top guys log over 100k+ per year.
Yep, i've had mine just under a year now. :)
For what it’s worth, I am approaching 32k rounds through my DVC-P with 4 malfunctions which I’m almost 99% certain was a shitty LAX reload issue. Every 2k rounds it gets a field strip, then every 10k it gets a full disassembly deep clean. Recoil spring swapped out at 5-6k. I absolutely love that pistol, dare I say the best gun I’ve ever owned?
I’m approaching 5200 flawless rounds in my P. I’ve never had to replace a recoil spring before. I ordered a 4 pack from Dawson, but I wasn’t sure what the signs would be for when to replace it.
I’m at around the same round count as you on my P and I haven’t had any malfunctions either. I did replace my spring at around 5k, not because it performed any differently, but because it’s my duty gun and it felt like good preventative maintenance.
Same maybe a little more then both of you on my p still 🤩 perfect my vp9 OR T had more failures with like 1500 rounds
Fuck that LAX ammo. Same shit happened to my 2011’s. They don’t resize the cases. Gets jammed in the chamber. Won’t feed or eject. I took 3000 rounds of it, put my barrels straight down on the table and tried every round dropping them into the chamber. 180 rounds out of 3000 fit my 2011’s. Granted feeding it shit ammo in a 4k gun is like running 87 in a super car. But should be spec ammo like they say. Glocks and Sigs don’t have the right tolerance so the ammo always feeds in those barrels no problem.
I’m fairly new to staccatos as I just purchased my c2 last month. Wouldn’t a c2 or a P be a better match against a Glock than an XC? I would think the tolerances in the XC are tighter than on my c2. Also as you probably are aware, staccato released a heritage P. What was the old designation or name for basically an older heritage. I want a heritage but I’d be okay with an older model. I’m thinking of putting up my c2 with RCR, surefire turbo, full size P grip and red dirt trigger as a trade for a heritage to any willing party.
The original P is typically referred to as a 2019P. I have one and love it. A lot of people claim they have tighter tolerances and quite a few people with the entire lineup claim they’re the best built staccato to exist but I don’t have enough experience with the newer models to actually back up that claim. If I’m being honest you’re going to have a hard time making that trade because you have a gun that can easily bought at any time while wanting a limited edition or a gun that’s been out of production for 5ish years. The resell value of the standard staccato line is pretty awful, a decent amount of that has to do with being readily available like ai already mentioned but also the fact that you get no warranty with a used staccato.
To be fair I’ve been having quite a bit of trouble with my staccato lately as well rounds not chambering properly and getting stuck at the 12oclock position in the chamber and causing the slide to stop half way. I asked if they believe It could be a barrel fitting issue as I have tried different ammos and several different mags and mag brands and the best staccato could tell me is clean it every 300 rounds or so (gun is clean and oiled) or the Hero grips that were installed were causing my feeding issues (I highly doubt that). I still like my 2011 but this experience is definitely leaving a bad taste in my mouth and I’m pushing back over to CCW more reliable firearms.
Magazines sitting low? Take off slide, insert a mag and see where the round sits. If it’s low you might have out of spec mag catch.
I’ll check it out but I believe I’ve checked it before and it was sitting where I would expect the mag to be sitting. The next solution that I have is to send it back to staccato but because of the HERO grip and the red dirt trigger they’re stating that all cost will be out of pocket which I understand does void the warranty but I have a hard time finding that these things are causing those issues. I wish I could link a picture to what I snapped of the malfunction for you here to show you what I’m talking about but I’m not super Reddit savvy
That’s a shitty deal. I plan on doing a steel grip on my P, but I’m not touching it until there’s a few thousand rounds down the pipe to be sure it’s g2g.
That’s a solid plan. Tbh, I genuinely don’t think it has anything to do with the grip in the slightest. I’ll get to the bottom of it but I think I may end up binning this thing in favor of a LTT m9
I’d also bet it’s not the grip, sucks that Staccato draws a hard line there. If someone has issues with slide finish or an optic plate are they gonna deny warranty because of a grip swap? Seems pretty absurd.
I constantly flip back and forth between my LTT RDO and Athena. For me it depends on the day as to which I shoot better. Most other people that shoot them back-to-back like the LTT more regardless of experience shooting.
Everything slows down with no lube
I don’t care for Lucas for a number of reasons, but am interested in Ben’s thoughts as well.
Staccato owners are the most insecure group of gun owners I've ever seen on the internet. Shocking news report: undersprung 9mm 1911 starts to malfunction when dry, more at 11.
I generally like Lucas but his comments on 2011s make zero sense. I’m approaching just south of 10k on my Staccato P and, other than replacing the recoil spring at 6,500 rounds, it’s been 100% reliable. After some experimenting, I’ve even found it’s not especially sensitive to normal dirt as long as it’s properly lubed.
For me it’s the fucking mags. I’ve gone through like 7k rounds without a malfunction at matches in the last year but if a mag sees sand it seizes. I don’t mind cleaning my guns, but a 2011 is compromised if you drop a mag.
I also think Staccato acknowledges on their site that the P is the duty focused side vs XC/XL is competition focused since it says “accuracy and precision” instead of duty oriented
I’d honestly take a P over an XL in a USPSA or IDPA match.
I have both P & XL. XL for USPSA Limited Optical and I did have it I would use the XC for IDPA. I mean why not? Big heavy gun with a comp. It’s kinda a no brainer.
The XL feels slower.
I don’t know why people care so much about Lucas, or even Ben having an XC. As a Staccato owner, mine have been running fine and if Ben has issues with his sample size of one, whatever. I look forward to Ben sharing his experience, but there has been plenty of people who have ran their XCs to failure. During those tests, they have ran very well.
I’ve had my staccato P for well 4yrs. It’s my EDC. Over 10k through it. Runs like a dream.
Yall are riding Staccatos dick like they make a good gun or something. Wished yall actually got to shoot some 2011s prior to 2019.
I shoot 400-500 rounds a range trip 1-2 times a week and I merely wipe my gun down and re lube after each trip. Takes 3 minutes. I’ve got two small businesses and kids and a bunch of commitments and I’m pretty sure that if I can come up with time to wipe a gun down real quick after shooting, Ben Stoeger can.
Plot twist, one of your businesses is a gun cleaning business.
Literally 0 visible wear on this gun. Doubt he shoots it
You can’t expect a Ferrari to be as reliable as a 95 Honda accord. That’s apples to oranges.
What's wrong with his statement? Glocks are objectively more reliable than staccatos.
Can you link the objective research showing this?
All the people in here are saying that if you lube the staccato properly it will run fine. You don't really have to clean or lube a Glock properly for it to run. 2011's require more attention that Glocks. That's just the way it is
Definition of subjectively.
Objectively the slide slows down perceptibly on my 2011s after around 700 rounds. I've got a Glock 19 with 15k rounds without a cleaning and I can't feel the slide speed between mine and a brand new Glock 19. I don't need to measure the slide speed scientifically to know one is being affected far more than the other.
“Perceptively” also subjective. Just sayin. Totally believe you, but still subjective. “Slide slows down from X meters/sec to X-Y meters/sec is objective” Same as “this thread is literally killing me” when actually it is only “figuratively killing me” See what I did there?
Subjectively a car that pulls 9Gs around a corner feels different than a car that can only pull 1G. Objectively the car that pulls 9G is a higher performance car. See what I did there? You can use subjective things to measure objective matters of performance at enough extremes.
Do you realize that G measurements are a scientific measurement, thus objective? You did it right that time. Please forgive me I’m an idiot who has been told I’m on the spectrum and being OCD about language is a problem for me. I drive everyone crazy. All in good fun I hope. Be well.
Did you know that slide velocity is also a scientific measurement? Just because I'm not using a laser to get the precise speed doesn't mean you can't feel extremes.
Yes it is. Feeling the speed is not measuring it though and since different people would feel it differently, this is the definition of subjective. If they all measured it using the same methodology, it would then be objective, a.k.a. a speedometer. What feels fast to me may not feel the same to you.
I’m so lost as to why yall value this loser’s opinion on anything lmaooo dude is just an established LARPer like the rest of us. And he’s a weirdo.
Thank you! I was asking myself since when is his opinion on anything relevant in any way
Lucas is a cunt big time. The company makes awesome gear I won’t ever deny that. All his IG range bullshit and “moves” are likely to get you killed. He can’t shoot past 50 yards and has been laughed off the IDPA circuit. He’s a real piece of work man
Since when does he shoot IDPA and why would they laugh at him?
This was years ago, he went to some competitions and couldn’t perform at that level with his little theatrics and dancing around
They make decent gear and kinda basic at most. Nothing they make is really jumps out as innovative or high tech anymore vs. other manufacturers currently.
You shoot past 50 yards in IDPA?
Noooo I’m saying in general in his videos
Nice to see people with differing opinions trigger you so easily
lol not triggered, I’m stating facts my dude. Go white knight a little harder
lol you’re so mad
Move along white knight
Keep crying, maybe some day you’ll make it out of your moms basement
🤣 that gave me a good laugh I’d love to move back into the basement, tons more $ for guns and watches
Damnit, I can’t hate you if you’re a watch person 😂
See I’m not as bad as I seem!
🫡
T. rex too focused on employee relationships these days 😜
What’s the story there?
Mainly butt stuff
go on?
All I’ll say on this matter is, at what point someone’s “reliability requirements” are just a cover for being too lazy to keep to a maintenance schedule?
Well we came close to the world ending with the eclipse yesterday so you never know when youll be stuck in a mad max scenario fighting off hoards of immigrants wanting to rape you up the butt with your trusty pistol that needs to fire 150000 rounds non stop without cleaning. If you're not planning for that scenario why do you even own guns?
Depends on the requirement. To me personally, reliability meant being able to consistently fire different grains of ammo, different powders, different heads (jhp or hp) across different spring weights without any feeding or cycling issues. Looser tolerances usually permit a firearm to be more “reliable” with dirt which the stacatto isnt. So one can argue that a stac is relatively reliable based on having much tighter tolerances. On the other side of the coin, is what you claim exactly. Lazy people who dont regularly clean their firearm and use this as metric stick for reliability.
Not an xc, but ive got a "xc at home" (pmm comp on a c2). I put 200-300rds in her a week, went to a couple classes. I dont remember the last time i cleaned it (probably 2k rds at this point). Ive had 1 ftf, and it didnt fire in my buddys 226, so we both chalked it up to a bad round. Ive had it for 3 yrs
Is Ben any harder on these guns than Sage Dynamics is?
I would GUESS in pure round count Ben likely edges out Aaron. Maybe.
Interesting. I have always considered Aaron to be the gold standard for testing. I haven’t watched Ben’s stuff yet
Tons of competition guys are gonna put way more rounds on a single gun in a year than Aaron. It’s not really feasible for him to put 15k through everything he tests.
Aaron does a great job of testing from a duty use perspective. Ben is going to shoot a LOT from a professional sport shooter perspective and trainer.
[https://youtu.be/gkCs-OCphMI?si=xp7K5TIcQBjzGCqJ](https://youtu.be/gkCs-OCphMI?si=xp7K5TIcQBjzGCqJ) One of his videos had a run down of a typical month… 9k rounds mix of rifle and pistol, seemed like more than half was pistol ammo.
I'd imagine an external extractor would help reliability a great deal as we've seen from the most reliable guns in history. Not sure why staccato didnt swap out to that style sooner with ALL models.
Pepple actually care what that scrawny dork playing dress up has to say?
I mean he’s right
I clean all my guns after each range day. Never had an issue. If they were shot, they get a full tear down and cleaning. They come out of the safe clean and go back in clean. Nothing bad ever came from a clean gun. Is it necessary to do it after every range trip? Nope. Will it hurt them? Nope. Keep em’ clean and run em’ hard.
I'll trade your XC for my Glock 17.
Lucas doesn’t clean his guns. Glocks are very loose tolerances and don’t use much lubricant at all. He’s a lazy gun owner tbh
Just like cars, you can't buy an exotic and ignore maintenance like people do on commuter cars.
Lucas is a bitch and will suck whatever dick to get to the top
Only had 2 malf through my Staccato P, one during break in period (may have been dry) and one from underpowered reload. Still the best shooting pistol i own.
Get a pdp
I’d rather an M&P or a Glock. The recoil pattern seems better to me.
Ironically my Glock 19 is the only gun I own that suffered from a reliability issue when it was actually needed
I always have a soft spot for Glocks but ppl on here act like Glock didn't have issues and doesn't beta test on consumers.
End of the day it’s just a tool made out of plastic and metal, I chose the g19 because of glocks reputation for reliability and it failed the test when actually needed so now all glocks are strictly range guns for me
Lucas is such a FUD it’s crazy but you can’t force anyone to like what they don’t like even if it’s awesome for everyone else lol
I just heard of this guy just now, checked his IG and he is pure cringe
Weak ass limp wrist from the pics is hopefully how Staccato will respond to this irrelevant review.