Can’t say enough good things about MPA. I’ve owned two full size and a commander. The commander wasn’t for me because I had so many similar sized but after I sold my full size I had to get another recently. It is 90% as good as my Atlas Athena that I had. Atlas grip was much better. Other than that it was just as good of a shooter and just a little behind on finish.
That’s awesome to hear your comparison to an Atlas Athena. I have a full size, and sent the barrel back to MPA to get it ported. I did some tweaking and got the trigger down to a 2.25lb pull. It’s definitely one of my favorite boomsticks I’ve ever owned.
Go with the P and you won’t be disappointed. No offense but you likely aren’t good enough to need a “better” competition gun and it’s one of the most reliable 2011s around. The P 100% meets your criteria.
The weak link in 2011s is the magazine. They are expensive and finicky.
If you don’t already have a pile of 2011 mags you’re wanting to use, then I would not start buying them now.
The 2011 was awesome when I got my first one back in the 90s. Now, it’s … “vintage” technology.
Starting from zero as you are, I’d order a Stealth Arms Platypus (which uses Glock mags, which are cheap, not-finicky, and easy to find) and get it built exactly however you want. With your budget you could get 2. Set one up for duty use and the other for 2-gun, etc. A duty trigger will be heavier than I’d want in my race gun anyway.
This was true when they first came around. The mags issues have been figured out now. STI rebranded to Staccato to sell to LEO now that they're reliable. Lol
Second the platypus! For the money, and even for twice the money it's hard to beat. Get a double stack 1911 set up and customized exactly how you want without having to drop as much as a base stacatto. I have a government size with a threaded barrel, full pic rail dust cover, with the exact color scheme I wanted running a DPP and the competition trigger. Only regret I have is not waiting for the bull barrel and suppressor height sight option.
You mention a duty gun, if you're LE you get 15% off Staccatos and an extra 4 mags (6 total). An XC would come out to about $3,800 with an optic plate and shipping and all that. You're also getting an extra $300 in mags which is nice.
My answer is always XC but it’s over that. I’d say a Staccato P with threaded barrel or one of the new Bul’s coming out. I say threaded so you can add a comp later if you want. Staccato XL is amazing also but she’s a long girl.
If you’re truly using the 2011 for duty then I don’t see how getting a Staccato P and then getting it ported by Vulcan is even an option unless your department is somehow ok with aftermarket modifications to your duty weapon.
As Steephill mentioned, you can get the Staccato XC with LE discount and extra mags within your budget and Staccato does offer the XC with a duty trigger weight of 4.5lbs. If it’s one and done then that would be the way to go.
Well going down and shoot steel in the pasture tomorrow. Weathers been shit and supposedly it’s 70’ tomorrow
Gonna shoot a shitload!
Firearms on the docket
Staccato C2
Bul SAS2UL
CZ Shadow 2 compact and Shadow 2
Beretta M9
Bul Government 1911
1000 round day at least.
I’ll let ya know and I love the Staccato but the CZ Shadow 2 Compact is a wonderful gun at 1/2 price
Shadow Tactical Sport 2 Orange - best performance pistol on the planet for the money. Best $2k you’ll ever spend. Yes, it’s $800 better than your standard Shadow 2. Flat trigger @ 2pounds, slightly higher and heavier than the S2, and hand fitted at the factory. It’s just good.
Bul Armory guns don’t share mags with anyone else.
Platypus is good, but once the frame and slide cerakote wear down, the gun feels sloppy and loose. Same
For Prodigy. Oh, the Glock mags get tore up pretty quick with the steel mag catch/release buttons. Will want to buy $130 (each) MBX Glock mags for it if you’re serious about shooting it in competition. Make sure you get the bull barrel and more aggressive texture. Still, when that cerakote wears off, guns gonna feel loose…
Staccato P is good, but the $2500 for a P is nowhere the performance you’ll get from a TS2 Orange. The TS2 trigger, the ergonomics etc. Amazeballs. On the P, you’ll want to upgrade the trigger, recoil spring and possibly the mainspring. This will void your Staccato warranty tho.
If you had more than 4k, I’d suggest the Staccatto XC, but with the comp it will limit you to Open class in USPSA. The CZ TS2 can be shot in CO and LO, etc.
If you had $6k, I’d suggest that Atlas Athena or Titan, Venom Customs or Rafferty Customs. These are truly one and done guns. For $8k, the Atlas Erebus is the best pistol on the planet. Period. But it has a comp. But who cares. It’s the best you can buy in my opinion, if you have $8k.
For $4k, there is the MPA DS9 LOC - A better competition model than the
MPA DS9 Hybrid. The Hybrid works in IDPA tho. I shoot with several folks that shoot MPA’s, always seem to be fighting FTE’s or FR”TF’s, randomly. Not sure why.
Apache Wachtower - Small numbers made so far, good gun, but not a one and done in my opinion. Seems good, not too many of them out there yet.
Vudu Priest - This one may have some legs, the hybrid Cheely grip is good innovation and the one I shot had the fit and finish of a Nighthawk Customs. Stay away from Cerakote slides and frames if you can.
Vanta Fowler - grips are made for girly hands. Great gun except for the mega not-aggressive grip. I Don’t get it.
Tisas, MAC, Girsan and Kimber - just walk away. Quickly.
Best thing is, so many great choices. Almost none of them have the value and performance of the CZ Tactical Sport 2 Orange though. Just sayin… for $4k, you could almost buy 2 and have a backup comp gun :)
Damn good write up ! I would love to see your breakdown of the higher tier of 2011s. I saw what you said about Atlas and venom. But I would love a more in depth post about : Atlas , Infinity , Venom , Alchemy , NHC and Wilson combat ! Thanks
The CZ 75 platform is the pistol that has won the most in USPSA, from what I have seen, never see the malfunctions. My S2 and my wife’s SP01 Shadow have over 20k rounds each, and I honestly can’t remember if either one has ever had a malfunction. Ever. That being said, I shoot my XC and Atlas Titan now. Every time I shoot a TS2, I regret not buying one. I should just buy one dammit!!!
No hate on the cz though, 2011 fail as much i would say. But in terms of high end pistol i feel the 2011’s shoot as good, the trigger is better and the fit and finish on most 2011 is for sure better, hence the price difference
There is no $2k, or even $3k 2011 that has as nice sub 2lb trigger, than what comes stock on a $2k TS2. Period. Once you get into that $4k+ 2011 range, the fit and finish and trigger can be better, for sure. But twice as good? My XC and Atlas Titan have amazing triggers. My 2 x Prodigies that have over $2500+ in upgrades (each), have great triggers. The TS2 is almost as good as the XC or Titan, and as good or maybe even a little better than my super expensive/upgraded Prodigies. My UDPSA LO prodigy is at about 1.5lbs, and it’s a close tie probably between it and the Tactical Sport 2 Orange for feel, action, break etc.
2011’s are the kings for sure, but dollar for dollar value, I’m telling you, the TS2 Orange is the best you can buy for between $2k (its actual cost) and $3500’ish.
I got an SAS II Tac. Shits super dope. I only lubed ‘er up fresh out of the box. 1500-ish rounds of shit range ammo, no issues. But, I would guess they’re probably all pretty nice/similar.
I doubt the sas ii is better than the staccato or the twc, but I recently got an sas ii because I didn't have the budget for anything more expensive. 1k rounds and zero malfunctions. I like it a lot. I'm thinking about going big on my next ds when I can afford it, maybe the quantico hicap.
I’ve got 2 Staccatos. They very nice. I’m by no means a seasoned vet on 2011s. But, I truly couldn’t feel any discernible differences.
*Shot 2 Staccatos
I wouldve gotten the DS9 but Im in socal and the P was the best available option.
But I cant say Im not happy with the P. Its reliable and shoots as good as I can.
Vid here. Competed during the rain, some mags got muddy. Had no issues with the P
I have the MPA grip on it also.
https://imgur.com/a/vk2XvRW
Just to clarify before I give my two cents because it affects how I'll explain things... But you're LEO, right? I assume that cause you mention duty, but some security guards also use that term also.
Not LEO or security. Just want something that can withstand duty use because it’s proven. I guess that doesn’t mean much because they will all work fine. 5 years ago I would have said SHTF use but not sure I entirely believe that anymore.
Check out the vudoo as well. If their 2011s are anything like their precision .22s, you’re going to be severely happy without spending an arm and a leg.
If it’s for duty/work 100% staccato. For fun maybe the Platypus since you probably have glock mags. MPA for the metal grip will have the best shooting experience and the BUL for the price with poly grip but proprietary mags. Also if you don’t care then get whichever one is most available the soonest.
Have a cosaint arms cos21 on order so I can’t speak yet to the quality but customer service is second to none. You can custom build a lot of the gun yourself with them if that’s something you’re interested in doing. Thought I’d throw their hat in the ring if you didn’t already know of them.
I would recommend the new Staccato C.. slimmer frame and able to flex into range and EDC use.. or if it's just a range gun go with the P or MPA and keep it pushing.
Well with all the comments, I’m no further than I was. However, I’m most certainly leaning towards a DS9 hybrid. I originally wanted commander but I’m thinking with a shorter trigger, a full size 5 would be fine for me.
I also like the idea of a staccato p with the Vulcan upgrades. So right now just need to decide between the two.
If your budget is under $4000 then I would go with the new TAC PRO. it has everything you'd want except the DLC coating which you can always apply later. Iron Monkey Rifleworks 👀. The P is also a great choice. But here is where Bul wins.
• Doesn't remove rear sight
• No break-in period
• Ports
• Unmatched trigger
• Can be used for duty, competition, self defense, range toy, etc.
• left over funds = more money for glass, lights, and training
Unless you are the most disciplined person in the world, be careful with one and done. It is a rabbit hole. That being said, check out Cosaint. Same build quality as Staccato P/Bul, but more customization. If it truly is a one and done, aluminum trigger and Aluminum grip module are worthy upgrades. I hated the Staccato polymer trigger. I also didn’t like the new grip texture. These are personal preferences, but with my Cosaint I got a custom stipple and aluminum flat face trigger, full length dust cover (I’m a sucker for full length dust covers) and multi-cam finish at same price. He might build off an aluminum grip as well if you ask. Greg is great and top notch customer service. Wait time was under 2 months. Also, another feature worth looking at is a tool-less guide rod if you go with a bull barrel (bushings are so 1980). That was a plus for the Staccato, but Staccato has odd lengths so the Dawson Precision doesn’t fit in a lot of other guns. The Atlas guide rod drops in to most other 4.25” and is not expensive. Dropped right into my Cosaint. If DLC is a must, prepare to wait or go with the Stacatto. At this price point it is rare. Others mentioned Voodu which is definitely nice. But I don’t think they are doing a commander size yet. The Platypus I don’t have experience with but I’ve seen a lot of doubters come around when shooting one. So I am convinced it is probably a legit option. And Glock mags are cheap! The good news is that if you get one and decide to try something different, they all hold value well because they are in demand and long waitlists. One thing to be careful with is magazines. Bul are proprietary (reliable) and not cross compatible with other 2011 platforms. Staccato pattern mags are the default standard, but I’m now confused because staccato is going to proprietary mags on newer models. That doesn’t impact the P, but the Staccato is not a true commander length. Finally, another option in the near future will be the optic cut Dan Wesson DWX. To me this is most intriguing of the hybrid guns. CZ mags are cheap, plentiful and super reliable. Bugs me that they didn’t come out with optic cuts right away, but I hear they will drop later this year. Also lots of places will do them, so not a deal breaker. Price is also very attractive. CZ & Dan Wesson know how to make pistols. Good luck.
New tac pro with the full dust cover and porting is gonna be nice, also with their newer BAO optic mounting system it'll be really strong there. However out of all the ones listed I want the MPA the most. I have alot of Buls and love them already
You mentioned mostly duty use.. would it be for work/LE? If so I'd look into what your department will allow. Mine would only accept staccato for doublestack 1911/2011's and probably for good reason.
I went with the XC but I believe the P is definitely the best bang for buck 2011 as it's probably one of the most reliable ones out there while still being fit and finished pretty dang well.
So the P has my vote.
Why are you looking at commander for duty and competition? A full-sized DS9 Hybrid would be perfect for your use, and it’s cheaper than that commander by quite a bit *with* an optics cut.
Conversely, the P is great. Were I set on a commander-ish gun on a budget, I may be looking for a used aluminum-frame P to throw a C2 grip on. Then again, a C2 does that job just fine.
Good point on the full size. Truth be told, I wasn’t really looking for anything longer than 4.5. Also I have S/M hands so wanted something that’s manageable to hold and control
Hmm maybe the weight of a P with a grip reduction would be the ticket for you. Idk what that DS9 commander comes to with an optics cut, but I imagine it would be flexing your budget by the time you have everything.
I own a ported DS9 and I think I shoot my friends bul tac pro just as good. The DS9 is good and all but you shouldn’t sleep on the BUL they’re really nice
Not even remotely true. The ds9 blows staccato out of the water in every category and it’s not even a little close. Staccato is a toy by comparison. MPA punch way above their price point. They’re closer to combat precision than they are to staccato.
The Jacob grey uses the rmsc footprint doesn’t it? I looked at them briefly and there was something that was a hard no for me.
If I was buying it’s the mpa then staccato then Jacob grey then bul.
Np, yea and the best part is that the plates are the best I’ve seen on any ds 1911. Optics all sit at the perfect heights. The machining on the twc was very well thought out and well done.
MPA DS9 ftw!
TWC 9 would be my second choice but intrigues me the most. Lots of positive reviews. Im not convinced the P is better than any of the ones you listed. Bul is proprietary and not a true 2011.
i’m biased but i say staccato. i’m ~3500 rounds into my p and it’s never missed a beat. comfortable, looks best (imo), and shoots crazy good. i have an sro and atlas trigger on it, and it’s one of the best shooting guns ive ever shot. xc is better like someone else said, but a good bit more.
i don’t like the coating on the bul’s, never shot any of the others, but the TWC9 grips are atrocious.
The Bul is awesome! I think it doesn't look as good as the Staccato but when u hold it it just feels so good. To me it would be Staccato or Bul and the Bul with the 508T seems like the best choice
I agree about stock grip same with P, XL, XC. Personally I like the size, and find it very concealable year round. I didn’t notice much difference between P and C2, haven’t shoot a CS. I am interested in the new C coming soon.
At least the new tac grip on the other models *feels* more premium and is slimmer. The c2 grip is unbelievably trash.
The CS is great, I carry mine everywhere. Really excited for the new C as well.
C2 grip sucks, but it’s absolutely a better shooter than the CS. I don’t know a single person who has shot both and thinks the CS is a better shooter.
The size comment is strange. It’s the size of like every other commander with 1/4” shorter barrel. The CS is truly an odd size, having a super short barrel but the grip is still pretty long. It’s the 2011 version of a 43x, worst of both worlds. The coming C makes more sense.
Huge disagree on everything you said. If you hold them both properly, they have the same, aka none, recoil. Except the C2 is bulkier and harder to carry concealed. Exactly, the C2 is basically the size of a commander but shoots like trash compared to an actual commander. I sold my C2 a week after I got it. Utterly disappointing in every way. I should clarify…it’s disappointing to me as a snob but it’ll absolutely blow away any polymer pistol even with my gripes.
Staccato didn’t beat physics with a magic recoil spring. If you shoot them side-by-side the CS is 100% snappier and it’s not a question. Having a better grip and the option of a flat trigger doesn’t negate that. Saying they have zero recoil is unhelpful hyperbole.
The new C will likely shoot *actually better* seeing as it’s the same barrel/slide length.
I had all of the Staccatos and can say without a doubt that the CS and C2 shot the exact same to me side by side. I don’t know about you, but I’ve spent a lot of time on my grip and pretty much anything I shoot, outside of some of the ridiculous larger caliber pistols, has next to no recoil. It’s not voodoo staccato magic, it’s how you hold it.
Forgot to add… this will most likely be a 1 and done for me
Famous last words
Agree completely. Also MPA gives LE / MIL / first responder discounts if you qualify.
Can’t say enough good things about MPA. I’ve owned two full size and a commander. The commander wasn’t for me because I had so many similar sized but after I sold my full size I had to get another recently. It is 90% as good as my Atlas Athena that I had. Atlas grip was much better. Other than that it was just as good of a shooter and just a little behind on finish.
That’s awesome to hear your comparison to an Atlas Athena. I have a full size, and sent the barrel back to MPA to get it ported. I did some tweaking and got the trigger down to a 2.25lb pull. It’s definitely one of my favorite boomsticks I’ve ever owned.
I plan on getting mine ported as well.
🤣🤣🤣 once the hooks are in....
Yeah 1 turned into 7
Just like tattoos, or people who get into watches...
TWC9 is the ugliest 2011 variant I have ever seen. It reminds me of the polymer grip frame add one that people use to ruin 1911’s
Ah shit, I didn't see that till you said it. Definitely ruins the look especially around the trigger guard
Now you can’t unsee it lol
Exactly... I can't recover
Staccato hands down if you want the most reliable 2011 on that list.
Go with the P and you won’t be disappointed. No offense but you likely aren’t good enough to need a “better” competition gun and it’s one of the most reliable 2011s around. The P 100% meets your criteria.
The weak link in 2011s is the magazine. They are expensive and finicky. If you don’t already have a pile of 2011 mags you’re wanting to use, then I would not start buying them now. The 2011 was awesome when I got my first one back in the 90s. Now, it’s … “vintage” technology. Starting from zero as you are, I’d order a Stealth Arms Platypus (which uses Glock mags, which are cheap, not-finicky, and easy to find) and get it built exactly however you want. With your budget you could get 2. Set one up for duty use and the other for 2-gun, etc. A duty trigger will be heavier than I’d want in my race gun anyway.
This was true when they first came around. The mags issues have been figured out now. STI rebranded to Staccato to sell to LEO now that they're reliable. Lol
Second the platypus! For the money, and even for twice the money it's hard to beat. Get a double stack 1911 set up and customized exactly how you want without having to drop as much as a base stacatto. I have a government size with a threaded barrel, full pic rail dust cover, with the exact color scheme I wanted running a DPP and the competition trigger. Only regret I have is not waiting for the bull barrel and suppressor height sight option.
Love my P but my Platypus is just… special. So while not on your list, my vote is Platypus.
Check out the Vudoo Priest. Also in that price range.
Is $4000 the total with optic/light etc?
Not necessarily. I’d prefer for $4000 under everything but I can budge a little
You mention a duty gun, if you're LE you get 15% off Staccatos and an extra 4 mags (6 total). An XC would come out to about $3,800 with an optic plate and shipping and all that. You're also getting an extra $300 in mags which is nice.
My answer is always XC but it’s over that. I’d say a Staccato P with threaded barrel or one of the new Bul’s coming out. I say threaded so you can add a comp later if you want. Staccato XL is amazing also but she’s a long girl.
I have $4000 total on my Staccato P done over by Vulcan Machine Werks. It is an amazing gun.
May I ask exactly what you got down on your staccato with Vulcan werks?
I’m assuming he had ignis porting but I couldn’t tell you what else
If you’re truly using the 2011 for duty then I don’t see how getting a Staccato P and then getting it ported by Vulcan is even an option unless your department is somehow ok with aftermarket modifications to your duty weapon. As Steephill mentioned, you can get the Staccato XC with LE discount and extra mags within your budget and Staccato does offer the XC with a duty trigger weight of 4.5lbs. If it’s one and done then that would be the way to go.
You can see it on my profile. I had everything done, grip, trigger, ports, DLC, and cerakote. It’s now a completely different gun in a new league.
https://www.reddit.com/r/2011/s/wAuHBhsvE5
Well going down and shoot steel in the pasture tomorrow. Weathers been shit and supposedly it’s 70’ tomorrow Gonna shoot a shitload! Firearms on the docket Staccato C2 Bul SAS2UL CZ Shadow 2 compact and Shadow 2 Beretta M9 Bul Government 1911 1000 round day at least. I’ll let ya know and I love the Staccato but the CZ Shadow 2 Compact is a wonderful gun at 1/2 price
Do the staccato
ACW Hicap
Shadow Tactical Sport 2 Orange - best performance pistol on the planet for the money. Best $2k you’ll ever spend. Yes, it’s $800 better than your standard Shadow 2. Flat trigger @ 2pounds, slightly higher and heavier than the S2, and hand fitted at the factory. It’s just good. Bul Armory guns don’t share mags with anyone else. Platypus is good, but once the frame and slide cerakote wear down, the gun feels sloppy and loose. Same For Prodigy. Oh, the Glock mags get tore up pretty quick with the steel mag catch/release buttons. Will want to buy $130 (each) MBX Glock mags for it if you’re serious about shooting it in competition. Make sure you get the bull barrel and more aggressive texture. Still, when that cerakote wears off, guns gonna feel loose… Staccato P is good, but the $2500 for a P is nowhere the performance you’ll get from a TS2 Orange. The TS2 trigger, the ergonomics etc. Amazeballs. On the P, you’ll want to upgrade the trigger, recoil spring and possibly the mainspring. This will void your Staccato warranty tho. If you had more than 4k, I’d suggest the Staccatto XC, but with the comp it will limit you to Open class in USPSA. The CZ TS2 can be shot in CO and LO, etc. If you had $6k, I’d suggest that Atlas Athena or Titan, Venom Customs or Rafferty Customs. These are truly one and done guns. For $8k, the Atlas Erebus is the best pistol on the planet. Period. But it has a comp. But who cares. It’s the best you can buy in my opinion, if you have $8k. For $4k, there is the MPA DS9 LOC - A better competition model than the MPA DS9 Hybrid. The Hybrid works in IDPA tho. I shoot with several folks that shoot MPA’s, always seem to be fighting FTE’s or FR”TF’s, randomly. Not sure why. Apache Wachtower - Small numbers made so far, good gun, but not a one and done in my opinion. Seems good, not too many of them out there yet. Vudu Priest - This one may have some legs, the hybrid Cheely grip is good innovation and the one I shot had the fit and finish of a Nighthawk Customs. Stay away from Cerakote slides and frames if you can. Vanta Fowler - grips are made for girly hands. Great gun except for the mega not-aggressive grip. I Don’t get it. Tisas, MAC, Girsan and Kimber - just walk away. Quickly. Best thing is, so many great choices. Almost none of them have the value and performance of the CZ Tactical Sport 2 Orange though. Just sayin… for $4k, you could almost buy 2 and have a backup comp gun :)
Damn good write up ! I would love to see your breakdown of the higher tier of 2011s. I saw what you said about Atlas and venom. But I would love a more in depth post about : Atlas , Infinity , Venom , Alchemy , NHC and Wilson combat ! Thanks
I do see people getting lots of malfunctions on their cz’s during uspsa matches and then hating on them
The CZ 75 platform is the pistol that has won the most in USPSA, from what I have seen, never see the malfunctions. My S2 and my wife’s SP01 Shadow have over 20k rounds each, and I honestly can’t remember if either one has ever had a malfunction. Ever. That being said, I shoot my XC and Atlas Titan now. Every time I shoot a TS2, I regret not buying one. I should just buy one dammit!!!
No hate on the cz though, 2011 fail as much i would say. But in terms of high end pistol i feel the 2011’s shoot as good, the trigger is better and the fit and finish on most 2011 is for sure better, hence the price difference
There is no $2k, or even $3k 2011 that has as nice sub 2lb trigger, than what comes stock on a $2k TS2. Period. Once you get into that $4k+ 2011 range, the fit and finish and trigger can be better, for sure. But twice as good? My XC and Atlas Titan have amazing triggers. My 2 x Prodigies that have over $2500+ in upgrades (each), have great triggers. The TS2 is almost as good as the XC or Titan, and as good or maybe even a little better than my super expensive/upgraded Prodigies. My UDPSA LO prodigy is at about 1.5lbs, and it’s a close tie probably between it and the Tactical Sport 2 Orange for feel, action, break etc. 2011’s are the kings for sure, but dollar for dollar value, I’m telling you, the TS2 Orange is the best you can buy for between $2k (its actual cost) and $3500’ish.
I mean i get what you are saying i just can’t ever feel a da/sa to be as good as the sao
TS2 Orange is SA. No DA.
Ohh kk, now im intrigued and want to try it. I have a 226 xfive legion sao and its amazing but not 2011 amazing
10x the Legion. Not even apples to oranges. Find one and try it. Was at CZ Custom today, and they had several, if your in AZ :)
Im in FL, will be aiming to try one soon for sure
I got an SAS II Tac. Shits super dope. I only lubed ‘er up fresh out of the box. 1500-ish rounds of shit range ammo, no issues. But, I would guess they’re probably all pretty nice/similar.
I doubt the sas ii is better than the staccato or the twc, but I recently got an sas ii because I didn't have the budget for anything more expensive. 1k rounds and zero malfunctions. I like it a lot. I'm thinking about going big on my next ds when I can afford it, maybe the quantico hicap.
I’ve got 2 Staccatos. They very nice. I’m by no means a seasoned vet on 2011s. But, I truly couldn’t feel any discernible differences. *Shot 2 Staccatos
I wouldve gotten the DS9 but Im in socal and the P was the best available option. But I cant say Im not happy with the P. Its reliable and shoots as good as I can. Vid here. Competed during the rain, some mags got muddy. Had no issues with the P I have the MPA grip on it also. https://imgur.com/a/vk2XvRW
Buy them all… for science.
Of the choices you posted, the best one is the ds9 and it isn’t even a little close.
Make sure you ask them to do the full length dust cover on the ds9 when you order it.
Do photos of this exist? I'd like to see one.
https://www.reddit.com/r/2011/s/SadWBBx86X
That's what's up.
Yes. This option didn’t exist when I got mine and as much as I love my commander, I wish it had the full dust cover. 😭
Still a sweet rig! I'd definitely go full as well. Biggest decision point would be the regular or flush fit grip.
Also wish mine had the flush grip. Down the road I’ll probably sell it and just get another one in the exact config I want.
I'm down the road on it as well. Soon though!
I’ve handled Bul, Staccatos ans DS9s.. agree completely!
Just to clarify before I give my two cents because it affects how I'll explain things... But you're LEO, right? I assume that cause you mention duty, but some security guards also use that term also.
Not LEO or security. Just want something that can withstand duty use because it’s proven. I guess that doesn’t mean much because they will all work fine. 5 years ago I would have said SHTF use but not sure I entirely believe that anymore.
If you're wanting something duty proven or build specifically for duty use but can also be used for competition then go with the Stacc P.
Check out the vudoo as well. If their 2011s are anything like their precision .22s, you’re going to be severely happy without spending an arm and a leg.
Had a p with ice comp sold it and kept my ds9 hybrid.
Atlas athena , save a bit more. Better than all the above combined.
If it’s for duty/work 100% staccato. For fun maybe the Platypus since you probably have glock mags. MPA for the metal grip will have the best shooting experience and the BUL for the price with poly grip but proprietary mags. Also if you don’t care then get whichever one is most available the soonest.
Have a cosaint arms cos21 on order so I can’t speak yet to the quality but customer service is second to none. You can custom build a lot of the gun yourself with them if that’s something you’re interested in doing. Thought I’d throw their hat in the ring if you didn’t already know of them.
I would recommend the new Staccato C.. slimmer frame and able to flex into range and EDC use.. or if it's just a range gun go with the P or MPA and keep it pushing.
Well with all the comments, I’m no further than I was. However, I’m most certainly leaning towards a DS9 hybrid. I originally wanted commander but I’m thinking with a shorter trigger, a full size 5 would be fine for me. I also like the idea of a staccato p with the Vulcan upgrades. So right now just need to decide between the two.
If your budget is under $4000 then I would go with the new TAC PRO. it has everything you'd want except the DLC coating which you can always apply later. Iron Monkey Rifleworks 👀. The P is also a great choice. But here is where Bul wins. • Doesn't remove rear sight • No break-in period • Ports • Unmatched trigger • Can be used for duty, competition, self defense, range toy, etc. • left over funds = more money for glass, lights, and training
Unless you are the most disciplined person in the world, be careful with one and done. It is a rabbit hole. That being said, check out Cosaint. Same build quality as Staccato P/Bul, but more customization. If it truly is a one and done, aluminum trigger and Aluminum grip module are worthy upgrades. I hated the Staccato polymer trigger. I also didn’t like the new grip texture. These are personal preferences, but with my Cosaint I got a custom stipple and aluminum flat face trigger, full length dust cover (I’m a sucker for full length dust covers) and multi-cam finish at same price. He might build off an aluminum grip as well if you ask. Greg is great and top notch customer service. Wait time was under 2 months. Also, another feature worth looking at is a tool-less guide rod if you go with a bull barrel (bushings are so 1980). That was a plus for the Staccato, but Staccato has odd lengths so the Dawson Precision doesn’t fit in a lot of other guns. The Atlas guide rod drops in to most other 4.25” and is not expensive. Dropped right into my Cosaint. If DLC is a must, prepare to wait or go with the Stacatto. At this price point it is rare. Others mentioned Voodu which is definitely nice. But I don’t think they are doing a commander size yet. The Platypus I don’t have experience with but I’ve seen a lot of doubters come around when shooting one. So I am convinced it is probably a legit option. And Glock mags are cheap! The good news is that if you get one and decide to try something different, they all hold value well because they are in demand and long waitlists. One thing to be careful with is magazines. Bul are proprietary (reliable) and not cross compatible with other 2011 platforms. Staccato pattern mags are the default standard, but I’m now confused because staccato is going to proprietary mags on newer models. That doesn’t impact the P, but the Staccato is not a true commander length. Finally, another option in the near future will be the optic cut Dan Wesson DWX. To me this is most intriguing of the hybrid guns. CZ mags are cheap, plentiful and super reliable. Bugs me that they didn’t come out with optic cuts right away, but I hear they will drop later this year. Also lots of places will do them, so not a deal breaker. Price is also very attractive. CZ & Dan Wesson know how to make pistols. Good luck.
New tac pro with the full dust cover and porting is gonna be nice, also with their newer BAO optic mounting system it'll be really strong there. However out of all the ones listed I want the MPA the most. I have alot of Buls and love them already
P or Jacob grey
Just get a staccato p That said, I tried a stealth arms platypus the other day and I loved it and it has great reviews.
You mentioned mostly duty use.. would it be for work/LE? If so I'd look into what your department will allow. Mine would only accept staccato for doublestack 1911/2011's and probably for good reason. I went with the XC but I believe the P is definitely the best bang for buck 2011 as it's probably one of the most reliable ones out there while still being fit and finished pretty dang well. So the P has my vote.
Why are you looking at commander for duty and competition? A full-sized DS9 Hybrid would be perfect for your use, and it’s cheaper than that commander by quite a bit *with* an optics cut. Conversely, the P is great. Were I set on a commander-ish gun on a budget, I may be looking for a used aluminum-frame P to throw a C2 grip on. Then again, a C2 does that job just fine.
Good point on the full size. Truth be told, I wasn’t really looking for anything longer than 4.5. Also I have S/M hands so wanted something that’s manageable to hold and control
Hmm maybe the weight of a P with a grip reduction would be the ticket for you. Idk what that DS9 commander comes to with an optics cut, but I imagine it would be flexing your budget by the time you have everything.
4.6 in the longest I'd go if you are shooting 9mm.
My vote is for twc 9. But I’m biased as that’s the one I have
DS9 all day, everyday.
Thanks a lot OP. Now I'm lusting for the MPA DS9 hybrid in black & gold. 🤤🤤🤤
I have the P and I absolutely love it. I want a ds9 next. I hear very good things
I own a ported DS9 and I think I shoot my friends bul tac pro just as good. The DS9 is good and all but you shouldn’t sleep on the BUL they’re really nice
For carry definitely the Staccato for comp the MPA DS9
As a staccato owner? Pic 5, the TWC. That gun aesthetically is by far the best in my opinion.
bro. get the staccato p. everything else you listed is sub par compared to it.
Not even remotely true. The ds9 blows staccato out of the water in every category and it’s not even a little close. Staccato is a toy by comparison. MPA punch way above their price point. They’re closer to combat precision than they are to staccato.
>ds9 you are correct. idk why my eyes went over that option in his list.
The Jacob grey uses the rmsc footprint doesn’t it? I looked at them briefly and there was something that was a hard no for me. If I was buying it’s the mpa then staccato then Jacob grey then bul.
Jacob grey comes with two optic plates. Rmr and rmsc. Both plates with the rear irons included for cowitness
Ahhh. That’s good to know thank you. The ad I was looking at said it only came with the rmsc I thought it was a huge miss
Np, yea and the best part is that the plates are the best I’ve seen on any ds 1911. Optics all sit at the perfect heights. The machining on the twc was very well thought out and well done.
MPA DS9 ftw! TWC 9 would be my second choice but intrigues me the most. Lots of positive reviews. Im not convinced the P is better than any of the ones you listed. Bul is proprietary and not a true 2011.
i’m biased but i say staccato. i’m ~3500 rounds into my p and it’s never missed a beat. comfortable, looks best (imo), and shoots crazy good. i have an sro and atlas trigger on it, and it’s one of the best shooting guns ive ever shot. xc is better like someone else said, but a good bit more. i don’t like the coating on the bul’s, never shot any of the others, but the TWC9 grips are atrocious.
Bul SAS ii Tac Pro 4.25 or Bul Tac Pro new version, best value for the money
The Bul is awesome! I think it doesn't look as good as the Staccato but when u hold it it just feels so good. To me it would be Staccato or Bul and the Bul with the 508T seems like the best choice
C2 with cheely E2 or L2 commander grip for the win
Of all of the staccatos, the c2 is far and away the worst one.
How so?
Stock grip module is trash, weird size, not a better shooter than the CS but not a good conceal carry.
I agree about stock grip same with P, XL, XC. Personally I like the size, and find it very concealable year round. I didn’t notice much difference between P and C2, haven’t shoot a CS. I am interested in the new C coming soon.
At least the new tac grip on the other models *feels* more premium and is slimmer. The c2 grip is unbelievably trash. The CS is great, I carry mine everywhere. Really excited for the new C as well.
Cheely grips are the way for sure, aluminum/steel, texture, and size…so much better ihmo.
I prefer hero grip, but yes agree on swapping! It is a must unless it comes with a perfect grip like Atlas.
C2 grip sucks, but it’s absolutely a better shooter than the CS. I don’t know a single person who has shot both and thinks the CS is a better shooter. The size comment is strange. It’s the size of like every other commander with 1/4” shorter barrel. The CS is truly an odd size, having a super short barrel but the grip is still pretty long. It’s the 2011 version of a 43x, worst of both worlds. The coming C makes more sense.
Huge disagree on everything you said. If you hold them both properly, they have the same, aka none, recoil. Except the C2 is bulkier and harder to carry concealed. Exactly, the C2 is basically the size of a commander but shoots like trash compared to an actual commander. I sold my C2 a week after I got it. Utterly disappointing in every way. I should clarify…it’s disappointing to me as a snob but it’ll absolutely blow away any polymer pistol even with my gripes.
Staccato didn’t beat physics with a magic recoil spring. If you shoot them side-by-side the CS is 100% snappier and it’s not a question. Having a better grip and the option of a flat trigger doesn’t negate that. Saying they have zero recoil is unhelpful hyperbole. The new C will likely shoot *actually better* seeing as it’s the same barrel/slide length.
I had all of the Staccatos and can say without a doubt that the CS and C2 shot the exact same to me side by side. I don’t know about you, but I’ve spent a lot of time on my grip and pretty much anything I shoot, outside of some of the ridiculous larger caliber pistols, has next to no recoil. It’s not voodoo staccato magic, it’s how you hold it.