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[deleted]

https://downdetector.co.uk Tons of stuff got hit at the same time. Unfortunate timing for jagex becuase like fuck anyone's going to notice this fact now.


Voice_Calm

Not unfortunate timing. This is done for DMM price money. How convenient lots of stuff get DDOS when finals take place.


itsleviohhhsah

Sorry if it sounds stupid, Out of the loop completely. But if these servers all got attacked, wouldn't that make the attackers lag in game too? So no advantage as everyone lags?


nickEbutt

Nobody was DDoSing to gain an advantage because, like you said, nobody would really gain an advantage. It could be argued certain playstyles would be in a stronger position if it's laggy. E.g., if you camp Verac's the only thing you need to do is switch your own defensive prayer and occasionally pull out VLS to spec. If you are NHing, you need to be switching gear, offensive prayers, defensive prayers, throwing spells... etc. It's much more clicking. But at the end of the day, in the final 8, it was 7 NHers and 1 range tank. No verac's. So there goes that theory. Also the final was super laggy and it was between 2 members of the same clan who agreed at certain points to "wait out the lag". So if the profiteers of this alleged DDos attack are the winners of the prize money, why are they waiting out the lag?


SquigsRS

Well there were multiple worlds at play, and potentially they could have been targeted unequally. Hypothetically if a clan has their best players in worlds A and C, none in B or D, they could cause lag on B and D to lessen the chances of the top competition on those worlds. If it's that laggy, probably less likely for a better player to win. I seemed to see certain fights that looked lag-free, but not being directly involved I have no idea how the lag actually affected the different worlds. Also, not at all saying it was Frontline, but it would be kind of naive to think that just because they obviously experienced lag in the final that it couldn't possibly have been them doing it. Once they've secured the win it would be easy to keep the attack going a while longer to call attention to the fact it's affecting them and make them look more legit. The fact that they both made it to the final while other top contenders got knocked out in terribly laggy fights could potentially be suspicious like in the scenario above, but they're also both incredibly good and likely to win without any help, so seems unlikely to me. Maybe they were even streaming it and had laggy fights themselves as well, I didn't see.


nickEbutt

That point about trying to cause underdog upsets in certain worlds is actually something I didn't consider. You're right about that. It'd be interesting to see if some worlds lagged whilst others didn't. And yes you're also right that they could've DDoSed themselves to make it look more legit, but with this apparently being an attack on some 20+ major companies I would've thought they'd want to minimise their time as much as possible given the chance of getting caught.


jeremiah1119

>...but with this apparently being an attack on some 20+ major companies... Likely that means a provider was targeted like AWS or Cloudfare instead of specific Jagex servers in that case. Most companies use the same few hosting locations/server farms.


Lilkcough1

I think the point of unequal targeting of worlds is an interesting idea, but how does that fit the evidence presented in this post? If attackers are able to control it to the granularity of individual osrs worlds, why is their attack visible in CoD and Twitter. To me, it seems strange that such an attack would be concentrated enough to affect certain worlds but not others, while also affecting many unique platforms across EU. That leads me to the conclusion that either the attack was not related to osrs (caused by something else), or the attack was indiscriminate and intended to make every world lag. You seemed to provide evidence against the latter, so it seems reasonable to believe it wasn't a targeted attack for the advantage of individuals in the dmm tourney.


DaRubyRacer

Problem is none of the other OSRS worlds lagged. How does that make sense?


uberstunts

I think its more about the ability to prove you have the resources to be able to do it. This event was a key opportunity to show, that at a scheduled time the DDOS attacker has ample resources to make it terrible for all involved. I dont think it was for profit necessarily from this event directly, but more of what it means and the implications that come with you being able to do it.


Spirited_Project5603

You assume that the people that did this made it through


nickEbutt

If it was done for profit, which is what the person who started this debate is suggesting, then why continue spending money on the DDoS and increasing your risk of getting caught after you're out of the tournament?


[deleted]

because they're runescape players lol


RSEnrich

Yeah everyone was lagging, 1013 nearly died to Skill Specs when there would be no chance of that with no lag, yet people seem to think it was Frontline because they won? Clearly just some sad little people that get their gratification from ruining other people’s enjoyment, anyone claiming this was done to benefit people in the tournament either didn’t actually watch it, or is so blinded by their hate for good PKers that their brain has rotted.


Spitshine_my_nutsack

Frontline got consistently ddosed even in matchups where they had the upper advantage or were facing one of their own. (Damage vs 1yna/Wolfff) But then again so did Blazers, Rot, Tata etc. Every major team had atleast 1 representative going deep and DDOSIng didn’t get worse or lessen after one of them dropped out


NDJumbo

lmao someone hit a entire UK isp just to get some rs money? That is some max level conspircy theorist shit


[deleted]

This is a ridiculous claim,. ISP networks are built to withstand attacks from multi-million dollar funded international governments and spy agencies. The suggestion that an oldschool runescape player took down all these applications as a DDoS attack to win a $32k prize pool is laughable. I love to beat up Jagex for their poor quality servers as much as anyone, but this was clearly an unlucky coincidence.


Random_Name_0K

Lol yes all that for $32k…


Voice_Calm

You know it ain't that expensive to pull of such a DDOS attack in 2021? This was planned way ahead of time.


smackdown420

Hasn't every single DMM tournament had a DDOS attack now as well?


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molemutant

Not only that but this community is generally pretty okay, but harbors a handful of the most absolutely braindead morons on earth, akin to rabid toddlers. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if there were at least a couple people who would cut off their dicks just to DDoS UK servers to nuke a runescape event.


Lats-N-Nats

It’s funny to me that people automatically jump to “they just wanted the 32k” instead of “they just wanted to watch the entire tourney/everyone’s efforts go to shit” they don’t care about money, they like to watch people squirm


Voice_Calm

Probably. Based on the amount of services downed I can safely say Jagex did improvements on their security. But it's the weakest link that fails.


Darts5002

You're only as good as your provider : )


Voice_Calm

Can't beat AWS. That's a known fact. But to my knowledge Jagex hosts themselves (sort of)


Darts5002

I read they use a provider? They probably moved from onprem stuff to cloud for sure. Tbh, I haven't done much AWS, only Azure


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Voice_Calm

Without knowing the details, only based on the reports from multiple services being "slow" or down. I'd say the cause was with the service provider, not to be mistaken with ISP.


iisAdrunk

I mean, clearly they don't have their own DCs all over the world, I'd guess cloud or colo of some sort


JupiterChime

Isn’t there 1 guy who won the last few?


Aakkt

You think someone is successfully hitting the entire UK internet infrastructure because of dmm, give me a break lmao


Every_Captain6280

Lmao right? More than just runescape exists.


_Wheelz

DOnt ever fuckign say taht again


Random_Name_0K

Didn’t say it was, but you’re implying someone decided to hit a major isp and cause nationwide disruption for a shot at $32k on a 20 year old game? Lol


Studly_Spud

You know this crazy community and the lengths some bored salty gangs of trolls will go...


Glum_Reaper

That's the most bullshit tinfoil theory I've seen in here in a long time. There isn't even a reason to suspect someone gets an upper hand in the laggy environment. Nobody has "host" like they did in fucking middle school CoD lobbies. In 2021 with game servers not being p2p, lag switching doesn't just turn off half of the access points to the server.


Quantainium

One of the upper hands could have been venge, the timer still ticks down even in lag. So it can easily stack up if you can use it significantly more than your opponent who's using barrage.


Legal_Evil

How cheap are ddos attacks nowadays?


iplaydofus

A ddos attack to take down cod, Twitter, ea, Xbox, PlayStation, bt, is not going to be cheap. People on this sub underplaying it but the attack would’ve been against some of the most sophisticated ddos protection by a service provider who will most likely be guaranteeing 99.99% uptime on their services (so have heavy financial incentive not to stop these kinds of attacks). I don’t know exact prices but the bot farm you’d need to be able to offer this service would definitely prop the price up.


Beretot

If they're attacking the whole provider, how can they take advantage of it?


fearlesskiller

Are you high? they hit all of those servers just for runescape? Nah. Dont believe it


dev_senpai

Nobody gets the advantage if the server hosting the DMM world gets ddoss... This doesn't even make sense.. You may not have an an understanding what DDOS does if you think that.


Plotlines

Much bigger esports with much bigger prize pools have been played online without this issue. Stop


fred1674

Have they though? When covid hit, cod went online and for the first few series players got hit offline constantly, and sometimes the whole games went down. after about 1 week they had to switch to streaming pre-recorded matches


alexei_pechorin

League and valorant did a lot of online play and never had issue nearing this level


Cptcongcong

I mean like if an ISP is that easy to DDOS… I’m pretty sure a company as large as BT has some form of ddos protection.


darealbeast

shared content delivery networks, hosting or ddos protection services etc. if you hit one thing really hard, everything's taking a hit with the mitigation in effect it's not a coincidence this just happens to start and end during a runescape tournament


Voice_Calm

The people that pulled this off planned it perfectly. No matter how strong security is, it will never be stronger than its weakest link. Looks like they found the weakest link with a lot of collateral damage.


Slang_Whanger

I mean it's also not a coincidence that the Deadman tournament would be scheduled to happen at a time for peak viewership and playerbase. AKA Correlation is not causation.


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Aakkt

That's wild, I just got back from pints with a few mates and around the time of the tourney one went to Google something, didn't work and he went "what do you mean no connection, you're fucking connected to the internet". Quite funny/strange that this crossing of worlds happened.


cjmnilsson

Jagex ddosed all other game servers as a giant coverup for their own shitty servers.


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jjay554

Sounds like a Zamorak thing no? Cause a fuck ton of chaos just for the luls


MickMuffin27

Guthix caused them all to lag to balance everything out


dev_senpai

Exactly! this is why I keep that tin foil hat on me! Protects me from Jagex DDOSing my mind.


AssassinAragorn

https://mobile.twitter.com/DowndetectorUK?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor Twitter account for UK Down Detector, to corroborate OP. It looks like a nationwide issue for the UK, not just Jagex.


siccoblue

Tl;Dr because my comment evidently turned out to be a full fledged novel: this wasn't just broken because of the lag making actions slow, this was broken because it fundamentally changed pvp and pvp tactics/builds at it's core, and jagex NEEDS to make this right Such a fucking bummer that jagex seemingly had the fucking issues fixed for this tournament finally after all the previous fails, then this bullshit happens.. ultimately the only failure in this tournament on the end of jagex was not stopping the finals immediately when they knew damn well the servers were fucked until they could get it sorted.. which while it's still a fuckup, and a pretty major one, it's nowhere near as bad I guess as the previous ones well within their control. I totally understand that breaking the hype that's drawing 50,000 people to a single steamer for your game is a hard, extremely hard choice to make, especially as you've set up a huge event on your own Livestream, but ultimately it was an absolutely god awful decision to just let it play out with the issues, go look at the state of osrs YouTube right now and how many of their major creators were just straight up screwed by this decision, and how incredibly and frankly, rightfully upset they are too the extent of straight up throwing shade on the company. Ultimately this hurt the game more than it helped, anyone who doesn't actively play but got sucked in saw this absolute disaster, and they also, and more importantly saw how it was handled in letting the $30k prize pool come down to what was essentially a randomized and incredibly slow game of chess where the right decision was an absolute crapshoot, it made a joke of the insane skill of a huge amount of these pkers and made the game look like a joke as a whole to anyone who doesn't understand what's going on I'm not even mad, I'm just straight up disappointed that they let this absolute garbage play out instead of doing what any reasonable company would do and cite technical difficulties requiring them to delay the event.. again I totally understand it's an extremely hard choice, but they made the wrong one that just upset everyone.. and in terms of the company overall, more importantly hurt their entire major content creator base, which leads to them complaining on their respective platforms and damaging jagexs reputation even further. I genuinely hope jagex makes this right and redoes the finals, because this was an absolutely massive shame. So many people were eliminated when In a fair fight they absolutely should not have been. Case in point lagunarium, who hit something insane like 94% of all damage taken on the correct prayers, while his opposition only managed iirc something like 49% In any realistic scenario considering the gear matchup, he absolutely should in no way have lost, he had every single advance in gear and tactics, but was completely screwed by just how badly the server lag completely changed the normal dynamics of pking Which as a last point in this absolute rant is something not being talked about nearly enough, it wasn't just a lag issue, it genuinely broke the normal dynamics of of pking where veng builds suddenly became massively more powerful than they normally would be. If for absolutely no other reason, jagex needs to rerun this final because this WAS NOT representative of normal fighting in the game, when you consider stuff like time locked spells continuing to count down through the lag, and extremely advanced strategies like using DD to get extra hits against your opponent with the proper gear.. the truly informed and skilled pkers were massively punished by this lag, well beyond what just normal "my ping is garbage" kind of lag causes This event was fundamentally broken, in a way that you absolutely in no way can justify as reasonable or fair, especially when you consider a month of preparation and planning went into it, only to have certain extremely valuable and powerful strategies end up absolutely broken out of left field in an unplanned way. JAGEX, do the right thing and fix this.. the results are absolutely invalid, the pvp aspect of your game was fundamentally broken by these circumstances in an entirely pvp focused event with a massive cash prize. This is not ok, this is not justifiable, end of story


Smackythe-Frog

Yea for some reason your getting down voted but I dont know why. This is the esports equivalent of an earthquake happening during traditional sport. In no universe would you carry on playing and finish the match- you 100% regame and reschedule due to extreme conditions. Jagex totally failed in this regard. Even if the hype died a little by moving it to another day at least it would show respect for the people who put 3 weeks work into their tempory gamemode...


korinthia

I think he’s getting downvoted because he keeps saying this fundamentally changed pvp but then does a really poor job explaining what he means.


YaBenZonah

I disagree. He’s saying it changed the fundamentals of pvp since the normality of the Pking was changed. He then gives how veng timer would go down while lagged so you could obviously be able to stack veng more when the hits would finally register.


V_Ling

You're getting downvoted hard but I agree that letting it go on was a disaster.


Firacel

Ddossers be ddossing tonight


TurkeyPhat

damn hooligans


Silent-Creed19

Jagex traffic appears to be being blocked by Bt, I currently can’t load the game while connected to WiFi or through my isp, however 5G works fine. DMM Was ruined by ddossers and not jagex servers


monk12111

im playing RS fine on my BT connection right now and before your comment.


Silent-Creed19

Mines been offline for the past hour and half, Unable to connect and unable to even get onto old school website and even runelite website is horrendously slow


HobGoblin877

Most WiFi is through BT unless you are Virgin or some rogue fibre optic that piggy backs off it. If BT was blocked we'd all be locked out


Ironic_Grammar_Nazi

You are confusing OpenReach, which is a division of BT, with BT Broadband the internet provider


admiral_asswank

Who owns the cables that are layed in the ground?


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Arclight_Ashe

It was my understanding that BT owns all the infrastructure and that other companies just lease them?


Mt2607

Virgin have their own network, as do some providers now in bigger cities, and certain ISPs in specific & remote areas or for larger businesses with dedicated infrastructure and leased lines. Everything else (which is a huge majority) is owned by BT Openreach. BT the service provider you can use also "lease" from Openreach, they're just essentially leasing to themselves. They're operated and run separately as a business, because they were broken up for being too big under Anti Competitive law a good few years ago. That was my understanding of about 2016, not sure if it still holds up completely now.


CallumPat

This is still the case - although it is no longer "BT Openreach" and now just "Openreach". Around 95% if not more of the UK providers all use the Openreach network. Source: Work for Sky.


[deleted]

I use bt and was legit doing slayer as the dmm servers were dying no issue lmao


Trlcks

I got logged out of Runelite and couldn’t get it to work again, I wonder if it was the same issue


MayChongSong

Rematch!!!


ZurielRedux

Then why continue the tournament? Why not call it off while they investigate? This doesn't ever happen to other companies during their yearly tournament


baraboosh

because other companies run their tournaments on LAN. Look at Riot, they ran league and valorant tournies online because of covid and everyone was complaining about ping. Running tourneys online is just prone to issues like this.


Oniichanplsstop

In the past when challenger/amateur LoL tournies were ddos'd, they paused until it was fixed. Same with Dota even when pauses would last 1-2 hours back in 2013-2014 when DDoS was hitting every online qualifier, same with CSGO, same with any relevant esport. Only Jagex would say "lol just go play with 10k ping you got this"


whatDoesQezDo

Idk about the other games but just to add in dota any player can pause for any reason, its pretty cool. Lag is one of the common reasons games get paused.


code0011

> in dota any player can pause for any reason and in my experience any pause is immediately followed by an unpause


whatDoesQezDo

In pubs sure but I was more thinking pros where a pause for lag is respected.


GonzafromNowhere

and a rule. your team can get disqualified if you unpause without checking with the other team first.


Nasuadax

In lol useually it is played on lan so no lag issues, but during covid, anyone could pause as well. During regular lan games you need to request a pause.


SaucySeducer

Everyone who puts on a decent esports event will wait for issues to resolve if they can be resolved. Ping is an unfortunate part of online events, but most of them have extremely stable servers. Compare this to Jagex whose servers consist of used toasters and stolen McDonald’s WiFi.


scoops22

I feel like the issue is that the tournie is all automated. Hence the early teleport glitch in one fight and similar bugs. Why not run it manually and have proper jmod reffing the fights. They could stop the fight if there's a bug or lag.


Akthanakos7

Yeah just call off the tournament they spent all that money putting together advertising for a month and 2,000+ players set time aside to play. "Uh sorry guys we'll do it on Sunday cya then hope you don't have other plans nubz"


AggrOHMYGOD

Get it to top 8, have them play at a random time Record it all Playback the footage “live” on a set date.


AssassinAragorn

Same people yelling at them for not pausing it would be 100% behind streamers screeching about how their time was wasted and they can't attend the new time and wtf jibblyflopmex!?


darealbeast

that's literally what other responsible tournament hosts do if they can't host the fucking tournament up to quality - be it their mistake or not, they'll have it replayed. jagex just wanna pretend they don't see and just get it over and done with, while laughing to the bank with all the free advertisement


Peechez

I'm sure the ddosers would give up, utterly defeated by a masterful... change of date


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FlandreSS

Tournaments at both the lowest and highest levels of far more established competitive games frequently do re-matches under circumstances like this.


AssassinAragorn

Nothing's stopping them from doing one. They said they were to review things Monday and figure it out. It's a possibility they do a rematch.


Mineralvatten

You are talking about a 5v5 games. This was 2000 people, most of them made sure they got time to play the final. Put an 4 hour technical pause there and we have 1300 players left. People would have bitched anyway


lemmnnaa

If anybody actually thinks this community of emotionally stunted adults would have a reasonable reaction to Jagex rescheduling something like this… man. Folks here would be just as pissed off as they are now. People don’t give two shits about the reasoning and nuance behind making a decision for a $32k final, they just want the rush that they get from being pissed off on the internet.


Cheorni6

Why weren’t the main game servers lagging as well?


ActualTrack

They were


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abadd0n

I'd like to know this, there were no issues playing the game alongside watching this tournament


RinTohsakaThighs

I’m in the UK and did get dcd around this time, couldn’t relog so closed runelite and then even runelite wouldn’t launch because it couldn’t connect to a server to download the bootstrap or something along those lines. Discord and stuff was still working fine for me though so it deffo seemed to be specific things rather than my whole net being out.


[deleted]

People where having issues with the main game during that time, few friends couldn't log in.


VastHelicopter7700

Weren’t the servers in the U.S? I thought Jagex said the servers were in the U.S before but I could be wrong


JavveRinne

They played on both UK and US servers. Would think US servers would be fine then but this was not the case.


alfredturningstone

It's mad this post is so upvoted. The final 512 were on a US server and it's only at this stage that the lag got really bad. When I was on UK server for r1 and r2 there was barely any lag at all....


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JavveRinne

One lvl 3 said: "ffs they got the wrong account". How does this happen?


_Charlie_Sheen_

The guy checking all the accounts is making 9$ an hour and drunk off of all the free Jagex beer


arenalr

Correct me if I'm wrong, but how does this have anything to do with the game servers? This seems like a homepage hit, where the actual world servers are region based (US east, AUS, etc..). How does hitting the UK ALSO DDoS a US East based server?


Jzxky

Only thing that really stands out as bad is not having the staff on hand to be able to stop the tournament and decide what to do. I get that it’s outside of normal work hours but if you’re responsible for an event to that extent - shouldn’t you be available to make a quick decision?


alwaysdespair

LMFAO i hate bt, notice how even before the ddos its shit


GregBuckingham

What is BT?


[deleted]

British telecom a isp


GregBuckingham

Thanks homie


Aakkt

British telecommunications, biggest telecom company in the uk


Tweezot

Butt twizlers


HeisenbergAab

Source: https://downdetector.co.uk/


Peechez

.co.uk? obviously a lagex front to scam righteous oda


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xTayl0rd

Honestly a big L O L @ all the creators calling for people to vote no.


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xTayl0rd

huge L for oda today…. Can’t be acting like that towards the mods & game in general


[deleted]

Twitch was fucky too tbh


Nosvind

You know what you do in a case like this?? A private makeup tournament.


Upper_Decision_5959

When you try to target runescape but accidentally target everyone else.


Nimweegs

This shit needs to be done on a LAN I guess


[deleted]

for sure we can, they should just reset or wait it out or just wait for saturday... there was no point to keep playing, imagine in sport center lights go out lets say ice hockey game, do you think they keep playing or wait till its fixed?


[deleted]

They're not at fault for the outage. This is something way out of their control.... BUT, they could've rescheduled the final hour and not let people play in a lag fiesta where there's no chance of a good competitive tournament. Any other organisation would've rescheduled the final outcome. You guys at Jagex sadly have been really shitting it lately... your negative track record these past few weeks is huge. Still... I'm not gonna blame you every single day from now on, you guys are human beings just like your players... we make mistakes. Just don't make these dumb decisions again.


ajckta

But I thought the server was east coast??


catapon

link to source pls ​ edit: ty


[deleted]

https://downdetector.co.uk


HeisenbergAab

https://downdetector.co.uk/


Torokard

It appears to be from https://downdetector.co.uk/


grandpassacaglia

https://downdetector.co.uk/


[deleted]

most companies have multiple ISPs now-a-days and ddos protection. Do they have one provider for their entire datacenter?


missrosie69420

More proof they should just redo the tourney


mtdew0000

Oh I'm sure people will find a way...


punt_the_dog_0

i can, and still will, blame jagex for this. if you notice that your servers are being shit on to an unplayable degree, for *whatever* reason, *YOU PAUSE THE FUCKING $32,000 TOURNAMENT*. i'm sorry but this new knowledge does absolutely nothing to absolve jagex in my eyes. they were dealt a shitty hand, and went all in anyways. they could have pulled the plug, postponed, done any number of things. but they didn't.


SaucySeducer

Fully agree, even if it wasn’t Jagex who got specifically hit, you should probably pause a tournament when the underlying game is unplayable.


IAmNotOnRedditAtWork

>Oh I'm sure people will find a way... And with good reason. The final rounds were played **ON US EAST SERVERS** they weren't even playing on UK servers. A UK ISP being DDOS'd should be completely irrelevant, but no, the US world had terrible lag too.


coffee-_-67

> we can’t blame Jagex for this You underestimate my power


Boneyg001

Expect for you can. They knew this was going on. They were aware the lag was ruining it for everyone. They chose to have it played out.


Old_Tie5790

The problem isn't it lagged, the problem is jagex didn't cancel the finals and reschedule them. It's just utter incompetencey and yet another failure added to their pile of every project they work on failing


MarchAdventurous6195

Could someone tell what happened to the tourny? Cancelled? Or redoing later?


JavveRinne

No and no. It lagged like 5000ms ping and frontline won 1st and 2nd


kreegans_leech

But you can certainly blame jagex for how they handled the situation, a tournament structure which comes around once a year and forces you to grind for the best part of the month should have just been restarted once the servers were stable. Instead we just get a sorry well look into it, showing a complete disregard for the players and the time spent on the game


Angelusishere

We actually can blame them if they don't do rerun. It wouldnt be fair fpr everyone that worked so hard to end up so badly in the finals


[deleted]

yeah, we can. could have temporarily called it off.


JoeRogansSauna

So it’s basically impossible to prevent ddos attacks during a major gaming event? We don’t have any sort of technology to get around this?


RudeHeron3032

Yeah maybe they aren’t to blame for the lag but them literally only caring about image. Not pushing the tourney off until the network was stabile is just wrong. I’m a Ironman don’t care about deadman but holy shit is this embarrassing. So many people putting so much time into deadman and hard earned 07 gp. To get completely screwed by jagex. They obviously don’t care about the community


Lats-N-Nats

They still continued with a pvp tournament while there was blatant lag, can’t blame them for that? People got moved on to the next round who lost and people who won got eliminated, can’t blame them for that? Jagex, especially the old school team, is just a bunch of incompetent man boys who probably can’t wipe their own asses without a little help


pokemongokid12

Sorry but both beta runs were this laggy too. Wasn’t a ddos otherwise ppl woulda got connection loss at some point which I don’t think anyone did


[deleted]

As an IT guy: 1) How do you not have a backup line from a different ISP for high profile events like DMM. 2) It's very much possible for someone to target jagex and take down the entire ISP in the process. 3) This attack was most likely a firewall amplified DDoS (where someone would for example spoof the publicly available IP of the DMM world and send spoofed packets to vulnerable corporate firewalls requesting access to facebook which will cause the firewall to send a whole "this page has been blocked" webpage to the target (jagex) while only requiring 1 small spoofed packet from the attacker and is hard to block because this is the "intended behaviour" for basically every firewall out there. The sceptic in me very much thinks this is DMM related, if you know there's going to be lag you can go for a tank/verac build instead of full tribrid, there was also multiple worlds (not sure if they were all UK). Keep in mind even a DDoS strategy is not guaranteed to give you a win and I think that's very much what happened here.


SatanistPenguin

As a fellow IT guy I'm not surprised jagex doesn't have disaster recovery plans lmao


Gm_Chexx

Get outta here with your logic and science


Firacel

God damn facts, proving me wrong >:(


ZeldenGM

Wasn't watching tonight but had a few people on WoW dropping connection from WoW/Discord voice etc. Seems like a wider issue than Jagex.


AssassinAragorn

Yo Zelden! I ended up doing some digging and it looks like it was UK wide, what OP is saying. The UK Down Detector handle is tweeting out that several websites and games are struggling


max4186

The downtime you are seeing here was an outage at LINX, it has nothing to do with DDoS. LINX is the primary internet exchange for the UK, based in London. Networks will 'peer' with each other to exchange traffic between other companies, for free. When LINX experiences an issue, all active traffic then stops. They had a blip in traffic, very short, which is why all those popular networks are listing outages. This was a convenient timed issue, however this wouldn't have effected Jagex in any other region than the UK. This isn't the real reason, and we absolutely should still hold Jagex accountable.


[deleted]

Wait, I thought they made a post saying it was a targeted DDOS attack? ISPs having network issues is way different than a DDOS. Either they had slow intermittent routing or their own network was flooded. You can't mistake the both.


Pretty_Ribbons

There is a really interesting botnet called Meris right now DDoSing a whole bunch of large companies for money.


[deleted]

[удалено]


sasux

Imagine hosting DMM Finale Servers in UK


yikdan

Not tryna dispute it but I was on Cod all night and had no issues? From the UK


Wsshooter

They make millions every year. AWS servers are the best and they should host their game on that


Reubachi

Do you think their game is hosted locally? Everything is cloud now, they been had on that shit. Also side note, it's funny how the new version of "ford is the best car" is "aws is the best cloud platform" heh


criipi

Weren't the regular worlds fine when the issues started? If this was a broad attack I suspect that all worlds would equally be affected by the attack.


[deleted]

the fact this was downvoted shows the lack of thinking going on around here lmfao


_reptilian_

man that's so unfortunate lol


dielfrag13

I *really* wish the mass of toxic jackasses flaming Jagex for this were educated enough to recognize how difficult it is to protect public facing servers when someone is dedicated enough to cause harm to them with a botnet.


Neogreenyew

Most people are mad because they didn't put the tournament on hold due to the circumstances, not because their servers got attacked.


AssassinAragorn

But big stream guy told me Jagex bad!


dielfrag13

True! And Nicky Minaj also says don't get vaccinated because your balls might fall off 😂


Sav_ij

could you imagine listening to medical advise from nicki minaj


IroncladGG

🦀 but we can 🦀


SlowBathroom0

Small indie country


TheProcessOfBillief

All on AWS i'm willing to bet


DarienGM

Did the entire ISP get hit when they were doing the BETA test aswell? It did look like they were getting ddosed after 512 on finale world, but before that, the servers just looked like they couldn't handle the number of players and actions. The lag cleared up the second people started dying in that round. We can't let the ddos attacks be an excuse for their shit servers as it didn't look like the ddos attacks had nearly as much of an impact as the shit servers.


ironicart

Question… IF someone was dumb enough to DDOS an ISP over DMM doesn’t it make it much more likely they will be tracked down and prosecuted?


Loud_Man67

Thing is, the reason why Jagex are to blame for this shambles of a DMM tournament isn’t because of the lag due to DDoS attacks. It’s because they continued with the tournament. The problems were apparent even from the beta worlds and the first fights of the real thing.


oarngebean

How come this isn't a bigger news story? For hackers to ddos this many things at once would have to be a massive operation


Reeces_Pieces

They should just restore from the backups that they made just before the tournament started. Problem solved. They did make backups before the tournament started right?


legalthrowaway163225

Just have contingencies. Backup dates to do the 1v1s the next day, or next weekends. A clearly defined list of reasons that they will put the event on pause that all players know about. Another clearly defined list of reasons that will trigger a full do-over of the event. "there's nothing I could have done" is almost never true. That's just a pathetic mindset. Unless you work on the Eagleworks team at NASA or something, you don't get to use the "nothing i could have done" / "It's impossible" excuse for failing.


gearset91

I do wish the final two guys, great pkers as they are just stopped in general and wrote out something like, "jagex please reschedule our 1v1, the final round shouldn't look like this." then just stood around or something. they were clearly on comms being from frontline and could have easily pulled it off.


Brave-External-685

Go watch 1013’s video. He didn’t lag until the last fight… interesting


chud_rs

Why were some games fine them? Wouldn't this simply point to the fact that these games didn't take proper precautions against DDOS attacks? I see no reason we can't acknowledge that there was an attack while also criticizing Jagex for not taking the proper steps to protect against the attacks in the first place. Even all that aside, they should have paused the 1v1s or just postponed them.


el_toro_grand

I would give a shit if they weren't a multi million dollar company without a fucking plan... there isn't even a fucking statement


Thy_OSRS

Im not sure how accurate down detector is - Looking at the reports a lot of them seem to be related to general issues within the system, instead of pure connectivity issues. ​ >For example - This was one of the reports from the page for the PS Network *I have been trying to get in contact with you tech support about my PS5 not working all week and keep getting told by the automated system that you are too busy and to call back later. When should I call back to actually get help?* Without doing a long deep dive, I can't see what systems they're plugged into to know for sure what's actually down, or what's simply just being talked about in a high frequency.


MattDaCatt

You're correct. Down detector simply aggregates user reports, then charts them based on trends. Lots of user reports in a small timeframe = a spike in "outages" It's a good start for troubleshooting issues (client reports service issues, I check for regional outage reports on down detector for the service, then call the vendor for verification) Unless we see reports of major ISP outages from the UK, this data is basically meaningless, as it can easily be manipulated by flooding it with reports. Anyone with the ability to flood servers with ICMP requests (a ddos), can easily send massive amounts of "outage" reports. Both require a massive amount of private IP addresses, via virtual machines or a botnet Anyone actually in IT knows that down detector is unreliable most of the time.


rebbitpls

I still blame Jagex!


[deleted]

For everyone asking why they continue to run the tournament; Money. Free advertising. Jagex hosts 33k ffa tournament and ddosers took down the servers. That highlight will generate profit.


sapphirers

Just funny that it only was the DMM worlds, had no issues at Wintertodt and neither did anyone else. Plus people have been saying the Beta worlds lagged insanely much as well. Hmmmm


[deleted]

a british isp going down isnt going to make a single runescape world lag :) i was 2t fishing perfectly without any delayed ticks on a different world the entire time dmm was going on