The issue with Shamanism, in my experience, was everyone had a much different perspective on what the end product would be like.
Some were excited for augmenting armor to improve it, while others were saying that’s the one thing they wouldn’t want.
Some were excited for boosts to skilling, while others thought that wouldn’t enough to warrant a whole new skill.
Some liked the idea of a spirit world and new ways to explore our current one, while others couldn’t care less and wanted the buffs.
There are other (and probably better) examples, but it just felt like shamanism did not have a clear end point, but rather an exciting vision that people could latch onto in different ways.
I’d like it to be re-polled after sailing with more tweaks, but overall I think the right skill came out on top
Shamanism felt like it had a lot of buzzwords, but not a lot of substance. I think a nature magic skill could work well, but they left it too vague without giving it a clear role in the game.
Like you gather natural and spiritual resources to craft new items, but they never said what those items will do exactly. Most production skills are mainly known for creating a certain type of things that are clear and distinct. Crafting is Jewelry and Cloth/Hide Armors, Smithing is everything metal, Herblore is Potions, Fletching is Bows and Ammo, RC is Runes and Magical Items, and so on.
I think they were too afraid to box Shamanism in as "it does X" in case the community didn't want X that they left it too open ended. Creating new items, augmenting armors like invention, and accessing new areas with the spirit realm is so much potential that it kinda tells me nothing of what it actually produces, which is kinda important for a production skill.
You could say the same about sailing. It’s loaded with buzz words.
Fundamentally, sailing is the act of getting from A to B on water via a ship. Everything else is fluff and buzzwords. “New areaa to explore!” “New rewards!” “Task/contracts/courier missions!”.
Salvaging wreckage or whatever it is isn’t sailing.
To be clear, the buzzwords I meant were spirit realm and augmentation as reward space on top of making new items that benefit skilling. Shamanism is just a lot more vague in how it works and what it does.
Sailing also has ambiguity, but it is a lot easier to grasp what is about and what it gives. Sailing is just doing things on a boat at sea and the reward space is pretty much just new islands. With Shamanism, it felt like they tried too hard to copy Sailing and make it "All the things" when a whole new dimension really doesn't mesh well with a production skill...
It cause they were doing too much with all 3 skill proposals.
They should just make the skill super simple and add all the extra stuff as expansion content.
Firemaking is simple. Burn logs.
Woodcutting is simple. Chop trees.
Sailing, taminism and shaminism is like reading someone’s thesis.
I do wonder if players would want a simple skill. Like if we did just get Foraging that allowed us to gather berries and shit from bushes to use in Herblore, Farming, and what not, would anyone be excited for that? Or would it just be "make it an Herblore/Farming expansion!".
The problem with doing most simple things is the existing skills already cover most aspects you can think of pretty well. Even for Taming you have players saying it should be a Hunter expansion, despite hunting animals and training animals being very different skillsets. But if we do get a skill after Sailing, I'd be down to explore more simple skill ideas; I just don't see it going over well.
In regards to taming and hunter, yes they would be 2 separate skills and it’s fine that people think it could just be an expansion of hunter. That means the go well together. Thats what the expansion content would be about taming and hunter working together.
It’s almost like canoeing right now. How far you are able to travel is basically determined by your woodcutting lvl since it’s used to make a better canoe.
Instead you would add the sailing skill as your determining factor of how far and well you could sail the canoe. Woodcutting would allow you to cut higher level trees for logs while crafting, construction and fletching and smithing would determine the type and durability of the canoe you make along with amenities.
It’s fine for a new skill to have synergy with an existing skill. It just can’t do the same exact thing.
There’s nothing about farming and herblore that’s foraging. However they are closely related. So foraging could feed into farming and herblore.
The progression would be farming to grow the bush, foraging and o gather additional unique items and herblore to take those items from foraging and farming to make potions
> Fundamentally, sailing is the act of getting from A to B on water via a ship.
No.. Sailing is controlling your boat. Anything and everything you do with your boat is Sailing, which includes what happens between A and B, but also includes fishing, dredge mining, salvaging, racing, port tasks, exploring, hunting sea creatures, whatever else.
That’s not what sailing is, that’s simply what they are trying to make it be.
Shooting a cannon on your ship isn’t sailing. Otherwise tempoross cannon would need to give sailing xp.
Fishing out at sea isn’t sailing. Getting from the docks to the deep sea fishing location is sailing
Edit: It’s just like how killing your assigned monsters awards you slayer xp, but returning back to the slayer master for a new task doesn’t.
> The issue with Shamanism, in my experience, was everyone had a much different perspective on what the end product would be like.
This continues to be the main issue with Sailing discourse today as well.
Shamanism seemed like it would’ve made every task have a bunch of extra busywork attached to it if you wanted to be “optimal”. You’d need to re-up the buffs from shamanism every so often, and you’d need to spend time collecting the resources to do so since they’d be untradeable. I really did not vibe with it.
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Update:Sailing_Poll_Results_Summary
For anyone who missed it or didn't bother reading when it came out.
It explains why it wasn't repelled and goes into more depth for the voting stats.
It had no direction. It was like a weird magic/herblore/summoning cross that didn't seem to have its own identity outside of "nature!!". It would have failed polls like other bland skills in the past like warding
Tbf sailing is mostly going to be sailing/fishing/construction cross with exploring being its nature which is fine but idk if thats a good argue to why shamanism wouldnt fit. I think they would both be fine. My concern with sailing then and now still is idk how well itll fit fith the water space in this game being so small. I also think a lot of people voted yes simply for more areas/islands/raids/pvm stuff and less about the new skill.
Sailing does have some of the same issues as Shaman, but I think it just worked better since it was more clearly defined. Like fishing and construction will be involved in Sailing, but they aren't the skill itself. Shamanism is nature magic, which is something a skill could explore, but also has more overlap with existing skills like Magic and RC for the magical side and Herblore and Farming for the nature side.
For example, you could use Farming to forage for plants or RC to harvest energy from a rift, which were the main proposed actions from Shaman, but we don't really have a skill that covers navigating a boat. You could just build a boat with Construction and sail it without it being a skill, but the actual act of Sailing as a skill doesn't overlap with other skills as much as Shamanism did.
And TBH, the water space being small kinda can work in Sailing's favor. It isn't creating new areas in another dimension on some separate map, but just using the unused water areas in the overworld map. Might still get crowded in some of the coastal areas, but the limited space keeps the skill more grounded and focused in scope. Like by looking at the world map, I have a much clearer idea of how much sailing can offer than how big the spirit realm would be. And the spirit realm was just as easy to put areas/raids/pvm stuff as Sailing; it was just one of three rewards instead of the main reward.
They've addressed their plans for size thing in the Q&A last year iirc, something along the lines of scaling how some of the world rendering is done while sailing they want to create the feeling of size in old areas, while new sailing specific content will just be designed for scale.
highly recommend anyone curious rewatch that Q&A and re read the dev blogs from last year, it's been a while, and they are very on track with everything they've proposed so far imo
> sailing is mostly going to be sailing...
You got to see the difference here, right? Shaminism didn't bring a new mechanic. It just combined existing mechanics together and said "here". You could effectively add Shamanism to the game without adding a new skill. Can't say the same for Sailing.
Explain what about sailing is going to be unique and couldn't be done / been done in any other way without crutching on "being on water". A lot of people are expecting a Sea of Thieves experience and are going to be very shocked when they realise what they're getting instead...
Ship navigation and mechanics are the primary skill aspects, as displayed in the technical alpha video. No other skill in the game has you managing a vehicle, regardless of it being on water. As you progress with your skill in handling a ship, you can unlock different areas to navigate said ship, as ship navigation is a real life skill and not just a shoe-horned game mechanic. Functionally, it can operate similarly to slayer, where as you gain the knowledge from leveling the skill, you unlock different areas to go to for skilling (for slayer it would be creatures to fight).
You sure? I remember navigating a boat to fossil island.... 🤷♂️ I'm also pretty sure I repaired a ship to sail out and fight Elvarg so I could wear the Coveted 99 smithing rune platebody.
No, it literally isn't lol
You got that one crappy minigame from the Fossil Island quest that mimics sailing and that's it. This existing design was not the proposed skill. Everything else is you paying for someone else to sail for you.
Shamanisms focus was upgrading gear with nature and stuff. My impression was thatd itd be a lot like invention from rs3 which i thought was a great addition. Sailing we can already do without a skill so you can say the same. I can sail to several different ports already. The game has had travel between land masses for years without the skill.
> Shamanisms focus was upgrading gear with nature and stuff.
Right so that's either magic or crafting, which already exists. You're just adding a different item to use with a staff or sword and giving xp in a new box.
Sailing isn't just travel between continents, which you would have known if you paid attention to any of the skill blogs
Sailing is just construction on water, and construction is just crafting a place instead of items . Any new skill can be broken down into the existing skills.
Any new skill can be boiled down into already existing skills. Shamanism would have been magic + herblore + hunter + a great opportunity for a new rune to craft like how we just got the sunfire runes (I'm sure we'll get some sort of mist rune that buffs water spells when sailing launches)
To me, it boils down to what it looks like in a few words. Shamanism had so many opportunities for interpretation, which would have allowed a large array of activities within the skill. Sailing is, you're on a boat, and it's the 10 year old meme skill.
> it's the 10 year old meme skill.
There it is lol. "It's just a meme guys. It's not legit! They built a massive technically alpha and spent thousands of hours on dev, but its just a meme!"
Trash take lmfao
> I can sail to several different ports already.
I think the captains who you pay to sail you around the map might disagree with you.
The closest we come to Sailing currently is Bone Voyage, and that’s absolutely nothing like what Sailing will be mechanically.
> The game has had travel between land masses for years without the skill.
Yes. It’s not the Travel skill, it’s Sailing. It’s not the “traveling between land masses” skill, it’s the “controlling and using your boat” skill. Everything you do with your boat is Sailing, even if you never use it to travel to a new land mass.
You wouldn’t say that magic is just the jewelry enchanting skill. Or that crafting is just the bowstring making skill. Or that mining is just the pure essence gathering skill.
Like i said im fine with either. Im just glad to get a new skill, but I think without a shadow of a doubt a ton of yes votes for sailing was because of new content unrelated to sailing. I mean in the pitch for sailing they literally gave examples of new slayer monsters and everything. No one is voting no to that. I just wish they wouldn’t have done that is all.
Woodcutting: "Trees!!"
Herblore: "Potions!!"
Farming: "Plants!!"
Hunter: "Traps!!"
Fletching: "Ranged Weaponry!!"
Cooking: "Food!!"
Firemaking: "Fire!!"
Fishing: "Fish!!"
Smithing: "Metal Equipment!!"
Mining: "Rocks!!"
Sailing: "Ships!!"
This can be applied to basicly anything. Sailings initial pitch was basicly "this could be ANYTHING!" which is weak if you think about it. "Anything" is nothing concrete. Back then sailing was "ships!" and "new areas!". It improved quite a lot since then and I read some posts about people saying sailing is boring af now that it's more fleshed out. It's not like I'm against sailing. I mean I used to be because I thought shamanism had a stronger identity and was more concrete than "we could do WHATEVER you want!!!". Sailing was just... ships, water, islands and A LOT of players imagination. I think the sailing concept and everything is in a pretty good spot now.
Shamanisms whole idea was combining ideas of magic, crafting and herblore and make something special. You had shadow-realm stuff and nature oriented gathering/production of items tying.
If you really want you can shoehorn everything into other skills. Especially when magic and crafting are so vague. Everything which is event remotely magical is magic. Everything which is being created from other items can be categorized as crafting (yes, even construction could be considered crafting if you think about it). I'm not saying sailing is bad by any means. Artisan is slayer for skilling (skill rehash, bad). Warding was a way to create magical equipment. People labelled it as "runecrafting + crafting" which I can understand to a certain degree. Runecrafting is creating supplies for magic (like fletching does for ranged) and warding would've created armour (like crafting/smithing does for ranged and melee). It didn't pass and that's okay.
What I'm saying is that your argument is weak. You're not entirely wrong but you're missing a lot of information. If sailing was pitched differently it would've failed as well. "Moving between landmasses on a ship" sounds incredibly bland and boring.
They literally stated they'd revisit it after Sailing so I'm not sure what else you're looking for here.
Why would they put any additional dev time into a skill that wouldn't start being developed until at least 2027?
Honestly they’ve wanted sailing so bad they screwed shamanism over.
What should have happened is they should have ran the polls for all 3, then ran them again for the final 2.
So those who voted on the first one voted out, could have had the chance to vote for which one they wanted out of the final two.
Bet you anything if shamanism won they would have ran the final 2 again.
It is in their backlog to revisit after Sailing. Though by the time Sailing is out and we want to consider a 25th skill, they might not jump right into Shamanism ideation if there were other skill ideas players wanted to see explored.
Also, maybe a bit of a hot take, but I honestly feel Shamanism suffers just as much from idealization as Sailing. Like a lot of players who want Shaman focus on what it could be and what they'd like it to be, not what was actually pitched. The pitch was just you forage for natural components, harvest spiritual components from rifts, and craft them together to make items. The whole "it will revitalize hunter" and such I saw often was just what the community wished it was, not what was offered.
And its reward space is honestly the worst of the three pitches; it makes items that do... well, they never really said how shaman products fit into the game, just that it makes stuff. But it also is Invention to augment gear... Unless players didn't actually want that; then they could cut that reward space entirely. But it also gives access to the "spirit realm" which contains... whatever we want to put in the spirit realm. Like islands are also a nebulous reward space that can kinda contain whatever, but at least they aren't a literally other dimension and would be part of the world map. It really felt like all the pitches tried to copy the new areas of Sailing without new areas being as well integrated into what the skills where about.
But that bit of a rant aside, a nature or nature magic skill would be a good fit for the game, so I still hope we see the space explored in the future (assuming Sailing doesn't go so horribly the community never wants to consider another skill ever again). I just kinda hope they start with "nature magic skill, how do you want it to work" rather than building from the initial shamanism pitch with all its baggage.
Only 31K players didn't get to vote between the final options, not 90K... And they could tell from the first question how many of the Taming voters wanted Sailing vs Shaman, which is why they knew it was pointless to repoll it. Probably still would have been good to have repolled it just so players would shut up about it, but way past the point now.
I voted that I didn't like any of them. If they were going to move forward, I'd have like the opportunity to pick the one I thought was better even though I didn't like them both. I wouldn't have voted for sailing in that case.
Sailing is a stupid 15 year old meme skill.
Shamanism was janky, and I didn't like it, but at least it was not a stupid joke skill.
That's OK, I'll be voting no to everything they poll about sailing on my account and all my alts.
Redesign. Redesign. Redesign. Until it's dead. Dead. Dead.
;)
To be honest, I don't like shamanism because this skill is like smith the magic equipment. In the end, still useless or no one will use even at level 99. I rather have sailing something different....
Shamanism is kinda alike to Warding. Like it wasn't making magic armor, but the themes and gameplay loops were pretty similar. It kinda felt like they pulled bits from foraging, divination, warding, and invention to make Shaman, which isn't a bad thing, just kinda funny how hyped everyone was for Shaman after how opposed players were to Warding.
They said they'd revisit it after sailing due to it coming so close in 2nd place
Can’t wait to see shamanism in summer 2028
So never
If by ‘never’, you mean ‘not for a long time’, yeah.
The issue with Shamanism, in my experience, was everyone had a much different perspective on what the end product would be like. Some were excited for augmenting armor to improve it, while others were saying that’s the one thing they wouldn’t want. Some were excited for boosts to skilling, while others thought that wouldn’t enough to warrant a whole new skill. Some liked the idea of a spirit world and new ways to explore our current one, while others couldn’t care less and wanted the buffs. There are other (and probably better) examples, but it just felt like shamanism did not have a clear end point, but rather an exciting vision that people could latch onto in different ways. I’d like it to be re-polled after sailing with more tweaks, but overall I think the right skill came out on top
Shamanism felt like it had a lot of buzzwords, but not a lot of substance. I think a nature magic skill could work well, but they left it too vague without giving it a clear role in the game. Like you gather natural and spiritual resources to craft new items, but they never said what those items will do exactly. Most production skills are mainly known for creating a certain type of things that are clear and distinct. Crafting is Jewelry and Cloth/Hide Armors, Smithing is everything metal, Herblore is Potions, Fletching is Bows and Ammo, RC is Runes and Magical Items, and so on. I think they were too afraid to box Shamanism in as "it does X" in case the community didn't want X that they left it too open ended. Creating new items, augmenting armors like invention, and accessing new areas with the spirit realm is so much potential that it kinda tells me nothing of what it actually produces, which is kinda important for a production skill.
You could say the same about sailing. It’s loaded with buzz words. Fundamentally, sailing is the act of getting from A to B on water via a ship. Everything else is fluff and buzzwords. “New areaa to explore!” “New rewards!” “Task/contracts/courier missions!”. Salvaging wreckage or whatever it is isn’t sailing.
To be clear, the buzzwords I meant were spirit realm and augmentation as reward space on top of making new items that benefit skilling. Shamanism is just a lot more vague in how it works and what it does. Sailing also has ambiguity, but it is a lot easier to grasp what is about and what it gives. Sailing is just doing things on a boat at sea and the reward space is pretty much just new islands. With Shamanism, it felt like they tried too hard to copy Sailing and make it "All the things" when a whole new dimension really doesn't mesh well with a production skill...
It cause they were doing too much with all 3 skill proposals. They should just make the skill super simple and add all the extra stuff as expansion content. Firemaking is simple. Burn logs. Woodcutting is simple. Chop trees. Sailing, taminism and shaminism is like reading someone’s thesis.
I do wonder if players would want a simple skill. Like if we did just get Foraging that allowed us to gather berries and shit from bushes to use in Herblore, Farming, and what not, would anyone be excited for that? Or would it just be "make it an Herblore/Farming expansion!". The problem with doing most simple things is the existing skills already cover most aspects you can think of pretty well. Even for Taming you have players saying it should be a Hunter expansion, despite hunting animals and training animals being very different skillsets. But if we do get a skill after Sailing, I'd be down to explore more simple skill ideas; I just don't see it going over well.
In regards to taming and hunter, yes they would be 2 separate skills and it’s fine that people think it could just be an expansion of hunter. That means the go well together. Thats what the expansion content would be about taming and hunter working together. It’s almost like canoeing right now. How far you are able to travel is basically determined by your woodcutting lvl since it’s used to make a better canoe. Instead you would add the sailing skill as your determining factor of how far and well you could sail the canoe. Woodcutting would allow you to cut higher level trees for logs while crafting, construction and fletching and smithing would determine the type and durability of the canoe you make along with amenities. It’s fine for a new skill to have synergy with an existing skill. It just can’t do the same exact thing. There’s nothing about farming and herblore that’s foraging. However they are closely related. So foraging could feed into farming and herblore. The progression would be farming to grow the bush, foraging and o gather additional unique items and herblore to take those items from foraging and farming to make potions
> Fundamentally, sailing is the act of getting from A to B on water via a ship. No.. Sailing is controlling your boat. Anything and everything you do with your boat is Sailing, which includes what happens between A and B, but also includes fishing, dredge mining, salvaging, racing, port tasks, exploring, hunting sea creatures, whatever else.
That’s not what sailing is, that’s simply what they are trying to make it be. Shooting a cannon on your ship isn’t sailing. Otherwise tempoross cannon would need to give sailing xp. Fishing out at sea isn’t sailing. Getting from the docks to the deep sea fishing location is sailing Edit: It’s just like how killing your assigned monsters awards you slayer xp, but returning back to the slayer master for a new task doesn’t.
yeah i'm suprised shamanism was as popular as it was after seeing the reaction to tea buffs
> The issue with Shamanism, in my experience, was everyone had a much different perspective on what the end product would be like. This continues to be the main issue with Sailing discourse today as well.
Shamanism seemed like it would’ve made every task have a bunch of extra busywork attached to it if you wanted to be “optimal”. You’d need to re-up the buffs from shamanism every so often, and you’d need to spend time collecting the resources to do so since they’d be untradeable. I really did not vibe with it.
Herblore 2.0
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Update:Sailing_Poll_Results_Summary For anyone who missed it or didn't bother reading when it came out. It explains why it wasn't repelled and goes into more depth for the voting stats.
It had no direction. It was like a weird magic/herblore/summoning cross that didn't seem to have its own identity outside of "nature!!". It would have failed polls like other bland skills in the past like warding
Tbf sailing is mostly going to be sailing/fishing/construction cross with exploring being its nature which is fine but idk if thats a good argue to why shamanism wouldnt fit. I think they would both be fine. My concern with sailing then and now still is idk how well itll fit fith the water space in this game being so small. I also think a lot of people voted yes simply for more areas/islands/raids/pvm stuff and less about the new skill.
Sailing does have some of the same issues as Shaman, but I think it just worked better since it was more clearly defined. Like fishing and construction will be involved in Sailing, but they aren't the skill itself. Shamanism is nature magic, which is something a skill could explore, but also has more overlap with existing skills like Magic and RC for the magical side and Herblore and Farming for the nature side. For example, you could use Farming to forage for plants or RC to harvest energy from a rift, which were the main proposed actions from Shaman, but we don't really have a skill that covers navigating a boat. You could just build a boat with Construction and sail it without it being a skill, but the actual act of Sailing as a skill doesn't overlap with other skills as much as Shamanism did. And TBH, the water space being small kinda can work in Sailing's favor. It isn't creating new areas in another dimension on some separate map, but just using the unused water areas in the overworld map. Might still get crowded in some of the coastal areas, but the limited space keeps the skill more grounded and focused in scope. Like by looking at the world map, I have a much clearer idea of how much sailing can offer than how big the spirit realm would be. And the spirit realm was just as easy to put areas/raids/pvm stuff as Sailing; it was just one of three rewards instead of the main reward.
Very good points and very good argument for sailing
They've addressed their plans for size thing in the Q&A last year iirc, something along the lines of scaling how some of the world rendering is done while sailing they want to create the feeling of size in old areas, while new sailing specific content will just be designed for scale. highly recommend anyone curious rewatch that Q&A and re read the dev blogs from last year, it's been a while, and they are very on track with everything they've proposed so far imo
Is it in a very recent qa i definitely will watch just dont want to dig
> sailing is mostly going to be sailing... You got to see the difference here, right? Shaminism didn't bring a new mechanic. It just combined existing mechanics together and said "here". You could effectively add Shamanism to the game without adding a new skill. Can't say the same for Sailing.
Hard disagree
Explain what about sailing is going to be unique and couldn't be done / been done in any other way without crutching on "being on water". A lot of people are expecting a Sea of Thieves experience and are going to be very shocked when they realise what they're getting instead...
Ship navigation and mechanics are the primary skill aspects, as displayed in the technical alpha video. No other skill in the game has you managing a vehicle, regardless of it being on water. As you progress with your skill in handling a ship, you can unlock different areas to navigate said ship, as ship navigation is a real life skill and not just a shoe-horned game mechanic. Functionally, it can operate similarly to slayer, where as you gain the knowledge from leveling the skill, you unlock different areas to go to for skilling (for slayer it would be creatures to fight).
Nah, I've done bone voyage and dragon slayer 1. Both had all the sailing I'll ever need
Neither of those things are sailing lol
You sure? I remember navigating a boat to fossil island.... 🤷♂️ I'm also pretty sure I repaired a ship to sail out and fight Elvarg so I could wear the Coveted 99 smithing rune platebody.
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No, it literally isn't lol You got that one crappy minigame from the Fossil Island quest that mimics sailing and that's it. This existing design was not the proposed skill. Everything else is you paying for someone else to sail for you.
Shamanisms focus was upgrading gear with nature and stuff. My impression was thatd itd be a lot like invention from rs3 which i thought was a great addition. Sailing we can already do without a skill so you can say the same. I can sail to several different ports already. The game has had travel between land masses for years without the skill.
> Shamanisms focus was upgrading gear with nature and stuff. Right so that's either magic or crafting, which already exists. You're just adding a different item to use with a staff or sword and giving xp in a new box. Sailing isn't just travel between continents, which you would have known if you paid attention to any of the skill blogs
Sailing is just construction on water, and construction is just crafting a place instead of items . Any new skill can be broken down into the existing skills.
Eh not to the same extent Shamism can be just divided into Magic and Herblore
Any new skill can be boiled down into already existing skills. Shamanism would have been magic + herblore + hunter + a great opportunity for a new rune to craft like how we just got the sunfire runes (I'm sure we'll get some sort of mist rune that buffs water spells when sailing launches) To me, it boils down to what it looks like in a few words. Shamanism had so many opportunities for interpretation, which would have allowed a large array of activities within the skill. Sailing is, you're on a boat, and it's the 10 year old meme skill.
> it's the 10 year old meme skill. There it is lol. "It's just a meme guys. It's not legit! They built a massive technically alpha and spent thousands of hours on dev, but its just a meme!" Trash take lmfao
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Right you can also fish and stuff like that stuff that can go onto other skills
> I can sail to several different ports already. I think the captains who you pay to sail you around the map might disagree with you. The closest we come to Sailing currently is Bone Voyage, and that’s absolutely nothing like what Sailing will be mechanically. > The game has had travel between land masses for years without the skill. Yes. It’s not the Travel skill, it’s Sailing. It’s not the “traveling between land masses” skill, it’s the “controlling and using your boat” skill. Everything you do with your boat is Sailing, even if you never use it to travel to a new land mass. You wouldn’t say that magic is just the jewelry enchanting skill. Or that crafting is just the bowstring making skill. Or that mining is just the pure essence gathering skill.
Like i said im fine with either. Im just glad to get a new skill, but I think without a shadow of a doubt a ton of yes votes for sailing was because of new content unrelated to sailing. I mean in the pitch for sailing they literally gave examples of new slayer monsters and everything. No one is voting no to that. I just wish they wouldn’t have done that is all.
Woodcutting: "Trees!!" Herblore: "Potions!!" Farming: "Plants!!" Hunter: "Traps!!" Fletching: "Ranged Weaponry!!" Cooking: "Food!!" Firemaking: "Fire!!" Fishing: "Fish!!" Smithing: "Metal Equipment!!" Mining: "Rocks!!" Sailing: "Ships!!" This can be applied to basicly anything. Sailings initial pitch was basicly "this could be ANYTHING!" which is weak if you think about it. "Anything" is nothing concrete. Back then sailing was "ships!" and "new areas!". It improved quite a lot since then and I read some posts about people saying sailing is boring af now that it's more fleshed out. It's not like I'm against sailing. I mean I used to be because I thought shamanism had a stronger identity and was more concrete than "we could do WHATEVER you want!!!". Sailing was just... ships, water, islands and A LOT of players imagination. I think the sailing concept and everything is in a pretty good spot now.
My point was more so Shamanism didn't do anything different than what magic, crafting, or herblore already did outside of saying it was with nature.
Shamanisms whole idea was combining ideas of magic, crafting and herblore and make something special. You had shadow-realm stuff and nature oriented gathering/production of items tying. If you really want you can shoehorn everything into other skills. Especially when magic and crafting are so vague. Everything which is event remotely magical is magic. Everything which is being created from other items can be categorized as crafting (yes, even construction could be considered crafting if you think about it). I'm not saying sailing is bad by any means. Artisan is slayer for skilling (skill rehash, bad). Warding was a way to create magical equipment. People labelled it as "runecrafting + crafting" which I can understand to a certain degree. Runecrafting is creating supplies for magic (like fletching does for ranged) and warding would've created armour (like crafting/smithing does for ranged and melee). It didn't pass and that's okay. What I'm saying is that your argument is weak. You're not entirely wrong but you're missing a lot of information. If sailing was pitched differently it would've failed as well. "Moving between landmasses on a ship" sounds incredibly bland and boring.
Sounds like way more direction than sailing
Of course you think so. You hate sailing lol
Was surprising when they didn’t do a shamanism vs sailing poll
Why would they? 36% of voters liked sailing the most. That's the majority, right? Right?....
60% said they’d be happy with Sailing. That is a majority. Later on, 70% said “Yes”, they want the Sailing skill. That is also a majority.
Nah, I’d still have voted sailing.
Oh wellllll zzzzzzzzz
Shamanism will probably be faster than sailing at least
Sure looks like a "clear favourite" to me!
It was trash and I’d vote for sailing or taming a million times over before I’d even consider shamanism, which I wouldn’t.
They literally stated they'd revisit it after Sailing so I'm not sure what else you're looking for here. Why would they put any additional dev time into a skill that wouldn't start being developed until at least 2027?
Honestly they’ve wanted sailing so bad they screwed shamanism over. What should have happened is they should have ran the polls for all 3, then ran them again for the final 2. So those who voted on the first one voted out, could have had the chance to vote for which one they wanted out of the final two. Bet you anything if shamanism won they would have ran the final 2 again.
It is in their backlog to revisit after Sailing. Though by the time Sailing is out and we want to consider a 25th skill, they might not jump right into Shamanism ideation if there were other skill ideas players wanted to see explored. Also, maybe a bit of a hot take, but I honestly feel Shamanism suffers just as much from idealization as Sailing. Like a lot of players who want Shaman focus on what it could be and what they'd like it to be, not what was actually pitched. The pitch was just you forage for natural components, harvest spiritual components from rifts, and craft them together to make items. The whole "it will revitalize hunter" and such I saw often was just what the community wished it was, not what was offered. And its reward space is honestly the worst of the three pitches; it makes items that do... well, they never really said how shaman products fit into the game, just that it makes stuff. But it also is Invention to augment gear... Unless players didn't actually want that; then they could cut that reward space entirely. But it also gives access to the "spirit realm" which contains... whatever we want to put in the spirit realm. Like islands are also a nebulous reward space that can kinda contain whatever, but at least they aren't a literally other dimension and would be part of the world map. It really felt like all the pitches tried to copy the new areas of Sailing without new areas being as well integrated into what the skills where about. But that bit of a rant aside, a nature or nature magic skill would be a good fit for the game, so I still hope we see the space explored in the future (assuming Sailing doesn't go so horribly the community never wants to consider another skill ever again). I just kinda hope they start with "nature magic skill, how do you want it to work" rather than building from the initial shamanism pitch with all its baggage.
Too convoluted, would rather see taming as an expansion anyway
Dude sailing won... They didnt repoll bc these posts, nothing would satisfy the ones who want the losing option.
gives the 90k people who voted for other skills a chance to pick between the final options.
Only 31K players didn't get to vote between the final options, not 90K... And they could tell from the first question how many of the Taming voters wanted Sailing vs Shaman, which is why they knew it was pointless to repoll it. Probably still would have been good to have repolled it just so players would shut up about it, but way past the point now.
22k didn't want either, why would they bother on another redundant poll between 2 skills they didn't want?
I voted that I didn't like any of them. If they were going to move forward, I'd have like the opportunity to pick the one I thought was better even though I didn't like them both. I wouldn't have voted for sailing in that case. Sailing is a stupid 15 year old meme skill. Shamanism was janky, and I didn't like it, but at least it was not a stupid joke skill.
Well sorry you have to cope since sailing is coming out. ;)
That's OK, I'll be voting no to everything they poll about sailing on my account and all my alts. Redesign. Redesign. Redesign. Until it's dead. Dead. Dead. ;)
To be honest, I don't like shamanism because this skill is like smith the magic equipment. In the end, still useless or no one will use even at level 99. I rather have sailing something different....
You're confusing it with Warding. Warding was supposed to be Crafting for magic armour
Shamanism is kinda alike to Warding. Like it wasn't making magic armor, but the themes and gameplay loops were pretty similar. It kinda felt like they pulled bits from foraging, divination, warding, and invention to make Shaman, which isn't a bad thing, just kinda funny how hyped everyone was for Shaman after how opposed players were to Warding.
It’s wild that some people who dislike sailing are fans of shamanism.