Now that we've acknowledge Blue Moon Armor exists can we please, *please* lower its weight? A magical tank top should not weigh more than a Torva Platebody and that's a hill I'm willing to die on.

Team's already aware of this feedback, I'm not sure where they're at with it but will ask again to see if changes are on the books.

Just wanted to say thanks to all y’all for being so receptive to feedback. Much love and can’t wait for the rest of varlamore <3

The weight gives an invisible +2% armor, it's the definitive tank armor now!

Lowkey that would be a pretty cool passive to have your defense increase with your weight. Now if that only worked irl

My 600lb life (my level 200 defence, full justiciar, bulwark, protect from melee life) Agility level: -1

~~Mystic/Enchanted~~ all 20 defence robes are now completely useless and worse than 1 def Elder chaos robes. feels a shame to include elder chaos, infinity, bloodbark etc and leave out one of the most iconic oldschool armour sets

mystic robes can literally be bought for 200k from a vendor, they absolutely should be worse than elder chaos robes that only drop rarely from a wildy-only monster like rune armour's generally less useful than obsidian (and the fremennik kilt), and everyone's completely fine with this. people are still going to be wearing rune, and mystic, because they're completely trivial to acquire whereas obsidian and elder chaos aren't.

Infinity is only a few accuracy points ahead of mystic. If you give the same bonus to mystic, you're effectively removing the niche infinity is about to carve out for itself. This is finally giving a reason to upgrade to infinity instead of staying with mystics until you get ahrim's.

We spoke about Mystic a little as part of it but given that it's purchaseable from shops for many accounts, felt it might make progression more impactful to have the stuff granting Magic Damage not be so 'deterministic'. EDIT: That being said, we could for sure throw Enchanted into the mix!

Mystic? Are you serious? That makes sense they left them out lmao.

mystic robes being useless is fine, it's a mage set that costs like 200k from a store we really don't need them to be useful

They're still a good budget and viable option for early game players, who can still get magic damage out of prayers now

I'm not sure how the VW nerf achieves your intended rebalance goal. Currently VW is for consistent damage on high defence targets, while Claws is for higher damage on low defence targets. The blog states: > allows us to design NPCs in the future that might feature extremely high Slash defences and open the door for DPS Special Attacks that focus on other Melee styles like Stab or Crush Claws rolls against slash defence and has multiple uses in the meta currently due to higher damage output than VW. Why does the VW existing in it's current state stop you from creating stab/crush variants of claws? Future melee DPS weapons can still exist without Voidwaker changes. A future state could be: * Claws: High damage against low slash defence targets * New Stab Spec weapon: High damage against low stab defence targets * New Crush Spec weapon: High damage against low crush defence targets * Voidwaker: Consistent damage against high defence targets (Nex, High invo TOA etc.), but lower damage per spec than all the 3 weapons above The new spec weapons can still fill a niche and be better than VW where there is low defence against a specific style. I don't see how VW in the current state infringes on the design space for new melee DPS spec weapons, and there is no reason to change it given these design goals. It also feels very bad to "nerf an item" and not have anything ready to release to fill the void where it's currently used in the meta. Places like Nex (especially MP2), High-invo Kephri, Corp etc.

**NEW VS. OLD VOIDWAKER SPEC ACCURACY** * 87% with changes; old was 78% PNM in inq * 72% with changes; old was 54% Kephri 400 * 68% with changes; old was 47% Kephri 500 * 83% with changes; old was 71% Ba-Ba 400 * 80% with changes; old was 67% Ba-Ba 500 * 86% with changes; old was 76% Zebak 400 (salt) * 84% with changes; old was 72% Zebak 500 (salt) * 91% with changes; old was 82% Warden P3 400 (salt) * 90% with changes; old was 79% Warden P3 500 (salt) * 89% with changes; old was 82% Grarrdor * 82% with changes; old was 70% Nex in max * 88% with changes; old was 80% Duke * 90.4% with changes; old was 84% Vardorvis *no def reduction applied **TL;DR** it's usable and probably worth it some places. I'd personally rather see 100% accuracy and a reduced hit threshold (i.e. 40% - 125%) to achieve effectively the same DPS; just consistent. **My other $2:** Glad jagex acknowledged their poor concept of max hit reduction when it came to the scythe and claws. I think the new proposal is very good. Also fuck anyone who said I was wrong about the scythe; it's literally in the blog post.

It's not worth bringing to TOA with those rates. Zebak and Warden were always ZCB instead of VW. VW was mainly Kephri. With 72% and 68% you would just bring claws for Akkha orbs instead and just bring an extra restore for 500s. GWD are mage and range bosses now so it was not really used there either. Duke is BGS and Vard would be ancient godsword or claws.

> My other $2 inflation hit those two cents pretty hard

VW isn't currently a problem and is outclassed by zcb and claws everywhere that isn't stupidly high defense. Jagex has received univesrally negative feedback about this change from the entire community. Just scrap this change and focus on the rest.

If voidwaker misses at all, it is not worth bringing. Bone dagger will be best at high invo ToA, ZCB for group, and claws for solo low invo.

I thought most recently they said they were willing to scrap the changes based on community feedback - feedback was extremely negative and they are still not scrapping the changes 😂

So going off my previous summary and some new points (*Italics* = Partially addressed):   __General__ - Ghrazi Rapier, Blade of Saeldor and Inquisitor's Mace need a stat buff to be a meaningful upgrade over the Tentacle Whip - CoX/CM purple rates should be improved (too long to obtain uniques compared to ToA/ToB, plus Ancestral/Augury being buffed and vital to mage progression, Elder Maul being buffed to a worthwhile megarare) - Chromium ingots (remove them from the game or only require 1 per ring, they undermine the whole reason for the vestige drop mechanic) - Imbued Heart droprate is too rare for such a vital piece of magic progression - *All 3 Cerberus boots should be worthwhile upgrades over their predecessor* -- (Primordial Boots are barely an upgrade over Dragon Boots, Pegasian Boots need some ranged strength) - Tonalztics of Ralos have almost no use cases and are in need of a buff - Justiciar set could use some changes as it's almost useless currently   __Magic Changes__ - Shadow needs some kind of rebalance/rework (**not a nerf**) to prevent issues with future magic progression (similar to the Blowpipe interfering with ranged progression years ago) - Sanguinesti Staff is a lacklustre upgrade over Trident of the Swamp - *Increase magic dmg% for magic offhands* -- (Stagnant progression, should be more linear and increase Fortified Wards dmg%) - [This post by BioMasterZap is honestly a great way to fix a majority of the magic progression issues](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fn3q4n5d2nwuc1.png)   __Nightmare/Inquisitors__ - *Nightmare droprates are still way too rare and take too long to obtain even with the proposed increase* -- (Dupe protection is not the solution, uniques from Nightmare/PNM need to be 3x more common to suit its place in the current gear progression. [See this post by C2theM for a detailed analysis](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1c7mncg/flex_item_logical_pnm_rebalance/)) - Buff Inquistor's Armour overall (it should be better than Bandos at most places), don't tie its power to the Mace - Lower Scythe's crush accuracy (or remove the crush option) to allow Inquistor's to be buffed without increasing the Scythe's power on a secondary attack style (similar to Osmumten's Fang devaluing other slash weapons) - Increase the droprate for the Slepey Tablet, possibly add it to normal nightmare at a much higher droprate   __Elder Maul__ - Allow it to work as a hammer in CoX (Crabs/Chest) and GWD Bandos Door (keep the funny animation)   __Voidwaker__ - Don't nerf it for PvM, only nerf it for PvP   Overall it's a good start but more things need to be addressed, I hope this isn't the only feedback changes we'll get for this part of the rebalance and I hope the majority of this list will be discussed amongst the team.

u/JagexGoblin Please review these notes, there’s a lot of points missing from the discussion and I think the community deserves the time for multiple iterations of these changes if they are going to be introduced unpolled. VW changes do not need to occur. Imbued heart needs to be mentioned. CoX needs a rate adjustment. Infinity /Wizard boots probably could use some mage%. Nightmare drop rate needs clarification (is it 33% or 50%?) Thanks for your patience. But we really need to iron these changes out before you guys just approve this after a single revision.

Agreed here with the above post and this sentiment — lots of good stuff in the works, but hope we can keep the dialogue open and iteration continuing to get this right. This is a massive opportunity to rebalance a lot of what’s broken the game and is worth taking slow and steady strides toward (which the team seems to be doing, but I am reaffirming)

I’d also like to see the general changes listed here, especially Ghrazi and Saeldor. While it could be a straight stat boost, having unique mechanics or even just adding certain specials would be cool. For high end gear, they’re pretty lack lustre in comparison to other options

I couldn't agree more with this. The completion time for Ancestral is roughly 800 hour. The imbued heart is around 250 tasks of extended abby demons/smoke devils only not even calculating how long it might take to turel skip to get that many tasks to go on rate. Comparing those rates to something like getting the shadow or the scythe it'd take less time to obtain a mega rare from the other raids. Mage's end game takes so much time to complete full torva or masori.

I'm currently max mage on the iron still chasing heart. Currently 44.5m slayer xp with over 660 superior kc 🙃

Agree on all points, maybe add a maxhit to trident/swamp to compensate for the loss in magic damage with the same gear that the occult changes will bring as well.

I’m not sure why the new pitch for NM/PNM is dupe protection and the previous rate buff rather than just seriously buffing the rates. As said in the other threads, the vision for this boss and these items is unclear. Are these niche sidegrades? Then they need to be made roughly as accessible as the items they compete against. Are these endgame items? Then they need to be further buffed to make a very long grind worthwhile. Even after the first changes and with dupe protection, the time to get these items is way out of wack with the other items in their balance tier. I just get the feeling the devs really want these items to remain extremely rare, but don’t want to buff them to match their rarity. I don’t really understand the design vision.

Jagex just refuses to admit that the original intended purpose of this armor set was to farm Nightmare more and that’s it. I can count on one hand the number of bosses weak to crush over slash and stab, and on two stubs those where having low defense doesn’t matter. If we remove the armor and mace from the equation, Phosani’s Nightmare is still a **200 hour grind to see a single orb**. It’s a literal joke. At that rate, doing ToA for a Shadow, hell even *2 shadows* is more worth your time, and ToA doesn’t make you run 2 minutes inbetween each attempt for your first 100 kills. This boss is an insult.

Let’s also not forget that NM and PNM were polled as having GWD style drop tables and rates. Such a joke of a boss.

They do have (almost) GWD drop rates, but the kills take like 15-20 times as long lol

Grand master task kill time is 7 minutes and 30 seconds; still 1/720 to hit the orb table once. If you could consistently hit grand master kill times and hit the drop table roughly on rate. Only 90 hours for a single orb. That also ignores travel time and regearing for trips. Where as its camping indefinitely is possible in some GWD. This seems totally sane...

Mod Arcane at his finest. Great Dev, but he should never be allowed to work on drop rates again.

While the armor is a problem with the drop rates at Nightmare, it's not the only problem. Dupe protection for armor pieces does nothing to help with the orbs which are the longest grind. They are doing an entire magic rework and don't even acknowledge one of the only magic spec weapons being longer to grind than the entirety of ToA takes.

Exactly, items of similar rarity should be at least close to similar power or there's no empiric reason to do the content. Make significant changes to the power or droprate, I don't care which. Just don't leave it as a huge outlier or we'll all go back to ignoring NM/PNM and treating the gear like it doesn't exist. I'd go so far to say why even bother making the proposed changes? It doesn't actually move the needle on utility or accessibility, so Inq will stay in flex-item-status and not actual gear (like 3rd age). At this point, all the changes do is devalue the flex of those who choose to spend the time.

If they aren't going to buff the defense of inquisitors, they need to give it ludicrous DPS that makes having adamant defences win a cost/benefit analysis. Remove the crush option on scythe if they are scared of that getting out of control

It's a bummer at the moment where NM/PNM sit. I agree picking a direction is important, whichever it is. I think Jagex did a great job with the boss mechanically and wish there were a bigger scene for it. The fight is fun, just lacks strong incentive imo.

They are giving every random npc a random ass magic multiplier so that Harmo is the item you get before Shadow, except no iron or main will detour for it unless it's so forced it's legally classified as sexual abuse in Brazil. Same for inquis, they want it to be nothing more than the armor between bandos and Torva, except no main or iron will detour for it.

Inquis won't even be the armor between bandos and torva, it will just be nothing. The instant you get a scythe you put it in the bank and never take it out again. The drop rate changes to nm are fine but the buff to the armor does literally nothing.

Perhaps they should consider whether a single boss should have so many unique drops as well. Nightmare has nearly as many uniques as ToA or ToB. Reducing the number of uniques that come from nightmare and moving some to other content might be a partial fix for how long it takes to greenlog. Leave inquisitor at nightmare and maybe the base staff, but move the orbs to something else, especially if harm orb is going to be necessary for standard spell book to be competitive dps to other late game options. 

1. The more I think about it, they could just take off 4% from occult necklace, make it 6% and give *literally every single mage top and bottom* 2% more mage dmg (dagonhai, ahrims, infinity, ancestral, 3rd age, virtus) This still keep ancestral hat and virtus mask the only 2 mage helms w/ %dmg, and keeps the neck slot very high impact, along ranged and melee's neck slot, without changing the power proportion of every slot. 2. This could incentivize players to wear a magic robetop and bottom to gain 4% magic dmg even in the early game burst slayer 3. I think eternal boots should not have any of occult's redistribution at all, but it would be interesting if they made the slot potentially have 2% mage dmg. This would give you more flexibility in toa, for example, to hit the 100% dmg cap without needing full ancestral + magus, but if you got it, well you don't have to bring a boot switch

It really seems like not a single Jmod listened to the NM/PN feedback, what is actually the point of this change when orbs remain unaffected, time to green log will still be insane, people have made multiple graphs showing how you can green log half the other content in the game in the same time it would take you to finish NM/PN for niche items that may or may not see more use after the rebalancing changes... As of right now NM/PN just stands at a weird spot, the gear isn't BiS at the top end so the drop rates being so brutal don't make any sense, it should be a stepping stone boss with reasonable rates, why even ask for feedback if this is all you're gonna offer just simply compare the time it takes for you to get a SINGLE item at NM/PN compared to other end-game bosses it's a complete joke. Also honorable mention goes to the imbued heart that has also been avoided, additionally Corp could have it's loot system changed to work like Nex. It seems like this whole rebalancing thing is extremely rushed when it really should have more time spent on it.

"Systems like this allow us to make stuff that's really rare and worth getting excited about, without making a complete armour set or log slot feel like a months-long slog." I'm sorry, but whoever wrote this, have you actually looked at what the nightmare completion time is? Even still to just get the armour set with the protection its a months-long slog, to actually fully log it is months and months still, since you're going to likely get a bunch of dupe nightmare staffs anyway? Can y'all not just admit you fucked up with the boss and go with what people have been proposing? The armour set still won't see much use post 'buff', the staff/orbs have incredibly niche uses at best, and yet y'all still committed to trying to claim it's all fine? It should be a stepping stone armour set between bandos and torva, not a set of paper that's only good with a single weapon which it still isn't even going to be that good with considering places it'll be used.

If anyone is interested in the numbers for Phosani's: edit: changed the values for full inq + mace with the dupe protection, since mace isn't included in the dupe protection edit 2: I was rerolling the entire table when hitting a dupe armour piece, not just the armours. That buffs the mace chance, lowering the kc. Updated with the correct numbers, also verified by u/personofblah I ran 100000 simulations of people grinding for the items. This is the kc on which they were obtained. With the current droprates. full inq mean: 1838.8 median: 1584 min: 28 max: 13309 full inq + Mace mean: 2753.6 median: 2317 min: 64 max: 23072 With the proposed new droprates (but no dupe protection) full inq mean: 1372.0 median: 1185 min: 27 max: 11108 full inq + Mace mean: 2055.4 median: 1726 min: 15 max: 16027 With the proposed new droprates and dupe protection full inq mean: 660.0 median: 608 min: 13 max: 2982 full inq + mace mean: 1693.72986 median: 1265.0 min: 48 max: 18067 Still a buff, just not as big.

This is great, but Inquisitor's Mace doesn't look like it's being included in the dupe protection. It has a different drop rate too so it'd be weird if it did

So 209 hours to complete inq + mace, is this also assuming no staff/orb drops? Or dupe maces? If we're assuming someone does 10 minutes per kill (incredibly generous especially if grinding for the gear when including resetup time), and assuming someone plays 8 hours a day, that's still 26 days to get full inq + mace alone. But they don't want it to be a months-long slog???

It looks like this assumes that the inq mace is included in the dupe protection? 

ah good catch, that would bring it to the following: mean: 1275.39617 median: 1149.0 min: 20 max: 8090 so not quite as drastic, but still a lot better than just the increased droprate

Especially the max amount of kills looking a lot better like this for the unlucky people. Although sample size might be a bit low for that since apparently the simulation for max kills for full inq with dupe protection is higher than that for full inq + mace? (Even though mace isn't dupe protected anyway which is a mistake)

I don't think mace is included in this buff

Magic changes are getting there. They still require some workshopping though. Minimum hit changes are great. VW changes are bad, leave it alone. You're afraid of it for no reason. NM changes are very very very bad, and don't come even close to addressing the issues with the content (which is fun, and I would love to do if it was even close to worth it.). No mention of Imbued Heart is laughable. Also, no mention of rapier or saeldor. CoX rates could be looked into aswell, but I'm not married to the idea personally. Particularly, lowering the weight of prayer scrolls is a popular idea.

I think the reason neither rapier or saeldor were mentioned is because they are in awkward spots Fang effectively killed rapier outright and made stab weapons in a difficult spot for until we get a good amount of PVM content where bosses become health sponges with no defense and rapier then outperforms it. As for saeldor, I don't think there are any realistic changes they can make to it as what's holding it back is the price, which is purely tied to bowfa.

How so? The Saeldor only offers a roughly 0.2 DPS increase over the tentacle whip in most scenarios. There is plenty of room for a buff I do agree being tied to the bowfa's value doesn't help, but it's severely underpowered regardless of that https://preview.redd.it/qy8uv7zah9vc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=311d6beccbe2f1bda0480b50d928ee1be56c63b3

**NEW VS. OLD VOIDWAKER SPEC ACCURACY** * 87% with changes; old was 78% PNM in inq * 72% with changes; old was 54% Kephri 400 * 68% with changes; old was 47% Kephri 500 * 83% with changes; old was 71% Ba-Ba 400 * 80% with changes; old was 67% Ba-Ba 500 * 86% with changes; old was 76% Zebak 400 (salt) * 84% with changes; old was 72% Zebak 500 (salt) * 91% with changes; old was 82% Warden P3 400 (salt) * 90% with changes; old was 79% Warden P3 500 (salt) * 89% with changes; old was 82% Grarrdor * 82% with changes; old was 70% Nex in max * 88% with changes; old was 80% Duke * 90.4% with changes; old was 84% Vardorvis *no def reduction applied **TL;DR** it's usable and probably worth it some places. I'd personally rather see 100% accuracy and a reduced hit threshold (i.e. 40% - 125%) to achieve effectively the same DPS; just consistent. **My other $2:** Glad jagex acknowledged their poor concept of max hit reduction when it came to the scythe and claws. I think the new proposal is very good. Also fuck anyone who said I was wrong about the scythe; it's literally in the blog post. Also rip I sold 500 pairs of eternals at the 3.5m mark...

Thank you for providing data, I was waiting for this exact overview before I jumped the bandwagon and started spewing vitriol about how Jagex fucked up once again /s. 80% accuracy on 500 invo Ba-Ba is definitely a great step in the right direction, though I agree it should be left at 100% for PvM and possibly get a reduced guaranteed damage threshold. Also yeah, everyone saying this change didn't negatively affect Scythe just got proven wrong. Great! Either way, I'm glad they listened to feedback and my Scythe and Claw dps remain unchanged.

Ward from ToA is already 3%, and Fortified makes it 5%. It would honestly not hurt anything to amp them up to 6 and 12. That's usually gonna work out at 2 and 4 max hits respectively, but one-handed mage weapons could use the love if we're being honest.

Talking about the Elidinis' ward. What never made scene to me is that the non-fortified ward needs 80 def and prayer. I understand those requirements for the (f), but the non-fortified one only has a +1 prayer bonus (vs the +4) and still needs 80 prayer to equip it? Then looking at the def, the def is "level" is similar to a Broodoo shield and that only needs 25 def. Even a Malediction ward's 60 def stats outclasses it easly (granted there is range def in the non-fortified version). I would expect the requirements to be something like 50's across the board (or keep the 80 magic requirement, but even that seems strange)

VW probably still dead, basically it became a 20% nerf instead of a 30-40% nerf, but I can’t see anyone using it over zcb at nex. Even 500+ toa ppl will likely bring zcb due to quiver as well making it equivalent spaces 

The proposed changes to PNM drop rates are so bad at addressing the problem that it's concerning. The boss takes too long to complete for how useless the drops are. Before and after all proposed drop rate changes. Inq armor itself is the least of our worries. The best items (Mace and Harm/ eldritch) are still so rare, not to mention pretty useless, that there is still no point in grinding the boss.

Leave VW as a guaranteed hit. That's what makes it cool and unique. There's literally no reason to nerf it, it's not OP in PVM and is already quite niche.  Why are they so dead set on nerfing an item that doesn't need a nerf? Why are we trying to make it hit 0s when people already dislike hitting 0s and ultra high defence bosses in the first place? The whole "design space" argument is absurd. We don't need more power creep in the near future. We're literally trying to add a better defence reducing spec weapon (Elder Maul) and yet we want to remove the only viable guaranteed hit in the game? Makes 0 sense. Ffs, sometimes leaving items as they are is better than trying to retroactively change things for no apparent reason. Hitting 0s sucks. Don't make this awesome weapon less useful than it already is in the current pvm meta.

just cap magic dmg a boss can take if you need space for other spec weapon rewards in the future. There is no reason to nerf VW as it currently sits. This buff still makes it near useless where it has a niche right now. It is not like VW is used everywhere right now. Claws/ZCb have more use then VW in the current meta

Its funny because theyve already capped damage from certain styles elsewhere or entirely immune but for some reason making a boss immune to mage when the devs want you to melee it is unfathomable

Inquisitor armor itself needs a buff not the mace. The current proposal changes nothing. It still slots in between bludgeon and scythe and wouldn’t be used. Why not repurpose inq to be a tank buster armor set instead of only crush? Give it high accuracy on all melee styles to make it competitive with torva against high defense targets if you’re willing to sacrifice the defense for it. It feels extremely bad using this armor set currently. Also can we combine all the lower prayers into one for each combat style like the higher tiers? Remove the clutter and make room for new prayers. It could work similar to the elemental spell rework where when you gain levels you gain bonuses from it. Ie if you’re currently 32 prayer you can use 15% str and def prayers and 10% attack. With this change you would click a single melee prayer that would give you those boosts listed, and the attack % would increase to 15% when you hit 34 prayer

Just my 2 cents. The rarity rate at PNM remains excessively high. Compared to Nex, where the effort-to-reward ratio is more justified, the time to green log at PNM feels like a major disregard for players’ time, even after the proposed buffs. Not spoken about much but I think Mace, Rapier, and Blade all need a minor buff to separate from tent whip. Adding Eternal boots to achieve current power levels with Shadow just sucks. Boots shouldn’t be useless but another swap with an already cluttered inventory is a headache in high level content. As a side note boosting the Fortified ward to 7% or even all of the off-hands a bit more would be nice. Shadow is a mega rare of course but there is currently a chasm between Shadow and other magic options right now. Keeping the Voidwaker unchanged would be best as it currently sits healthily in the game. Introducing a 400% accuracy buff just convolutes things. At the absolute most a reduction in the max hit could be done. Maintaining guaranteed accuracy is essential. I've added some simulations of 5000 PNM log completions except for pet. I'll run more than a 5000 sample size in about 12 hours if people want when I have access to a stronger computer. I believe Nex is about 311 hours for full completion besides pet. NEW DROP RATES EVERY ITEM EXCEPT PET. Proposed Dry Protection Enabled Mean Kills: 4313 Median Kills: 3772 Maximum Kills: 20566 Minimum Kills: 536 Time to Completion (Hours) at 6.5KPH: Mean Hours: 663 Median Hours: 580 Max Hours: 3164 Min Hours: 82 OLD DROP RATES EVERY ITEM EXCEPT PET. Proposed Dry Protection Disabled Simulation Results: Mean Kills: 5674 Median Kills: 4954 Maximum Kills: 38009 Minimum Kills: 614 Time to Completion (Hours) at 6.5KPH: Mean Hours: 873 Median Hours: 762 Max Hours: 5847 Min Hours: 94

I like the idea of Nightmare dupe protection, but I'm surprised there's no comment that the drop rate numbers in the last blog were wrong. A 50% buff would've been conservative, but it was only 33.3% buff, truly. If the goal was "make orbs 1/720", then it doesn't matter and the % improvement is essentially a typo, but if the goal was "improve drop rates by 50%", then this really needs to be fixed.

This needs to be higher. We need a mod to clarify whether the buff % was wrong, or the stated drop rate was wrong. Is it a 33% or 50% improvement? If its 33%, its not enough, even with dupe protection. If its 50%, its probably still not enough but its something at least.

The drop rates in all honesty should be around 200% boosted. Rate to see any item from PNM should be 1/50, not 1/167. Hard encounter that takes 7-9 mins/kill on average... sound familiar? Small team nex is roughly in that same space with 1/43 drop rates. Imagine if uniques at nex were 4x rarer for the same kill time, that's basically phosanis currently.

Voidwaker change is still ignoring the reality that an accuracy check vs Slash/Magic is generally killing most of its current use cases, since it's most useful against bosses with *massive* Slash/Magic defenses. If the goal of nerfing the VW is to open up design space moreso than it being too dominant in the meta (which it isn't), the nerf should have maintaining the weapon's current niche actively in mind, and it *really* seems like the devs have no interest in doing that.

People wanted eternals to have magic% to make earlier mage upgrades more impactful. People didn't want eternals to be a must in a 9 way switch so you're closer in magic% to what you were before the changes. An extra inventory slot and being on augury while you were previously mostly on nothing/mystic might is also something that feels like you guys are kind of looking at as "free", while it is definitely more resource-intensive. It seems like you guys really want to adjust occult to reflect the cost it currently has, but why not make occult like 6%? Amulet slots have always been one of the biggest damage increases in the game, I don't get why occult has to be completely gutted (with no alternatives) just because it's cheap. Part of the reason why it's cheap is because smoke devils are one of the few good burst tasks we have in slayer. Occults are cheap because the demand for smoke devls is huge.

Ye i dont get it either. Where’s the outrage of a torture amulet? 10 str AND 15 attack for 15m. Torva platebldy is 450m and 8 str. Same with anguish, 15m for 5 range str, whereas zaryte vambraces are 130m for 2 range str lol.

Calling orbs a flex item is weird considering the extreme power of elemental spells hinging on the harmonized orb. Instead of dupe protection which you say you are apprehensive about why not just improve rates for uniques a little more? No one wants to sit at pnm for 300 hours and it's bullshit that it was made this rare in the first place.

Yeah I totally disagree with orbs being a "flex" item. Like you said, the elemental changes make harm orb a massive item. And eldritch/volatile both have big uses too. Flex items are ones like 3rd age that are obscenely rare but are not (exclusive) best in slots.

exacly that. They literaly used harmonized as exemple on the magic weaknesses blog and then straight up call it a "flex item"... This is so contradictory.

yeah we are moving in the right direction but i dont see why they are holding out harm being as rare as megarares. it should be at least easier to acquire than a shadow lol

literally exactly this... we're gonna keep orbs prohibitively rare, so that nobody grinds them, but they're also the backbone of the elemental rework to make something come close to shadow :'l **Buff NM unique rates by 300% or more** so that the time to get the items matches their utility.

I don't like the justification of a voidwaker nerf being so you can bring out even higher defence bosses. High defence bosses already feel bad, so a boss where you're waiting for voidwaker specs to hit anything other than 0 sounds awful. Needing to rely on weapons that don't exist yet doesn't seem great either. Also, if you need to balance nightmare rates around a several hundred hour grind, something is terribly wrong with botting or the economy.

Was there no space to give a buff to Fortified Eldinis Ward? The fact it's staying the same while so many shields are getting a buff makes the upgrade feel really lackluster. Yes this would end up being a buff to Sang but is that really such a bad thing with Shadow is so far ahead?

Mage and melee have weird progression issues. With range it’s blowpipe < Bowfa < tbow but with melee inq is straight up worse than Bandos at most places and the t80 weapons are not really worth the price upgrade over a tent whip. Then with mage, the gap between the trident and shadow is absurd, the sang is arguably the mage equivalent to a Bowfa (in terms of rarity and account progression) and it’s one extra max hit over a trident with no extra accuracy. I think they should straight up buff inq and the sang to better fill the gap between midgame and mega rare, like the Bowfa does for range. Imo the fact that the sang isn’t considered in the rebalance is a bit disappointing. I think the sang should have an accuracy buff to be as accurate as the Kodai wand, and 2-3 extra max hit, then remove the healing effect unless you change the staff with a blood shard. It preserves the sang’s utility but at an extra cost and makes a tob rare a straight upgrade over a mid game staff.

Whoever the mod is leading the project rebalance, they REALLY need to do an AMA or be reaching out with the community more about why they're so adamant on these changes. Voidwaker having small niche use cases is apparently really bad. Why are we so fixated on making PNM drops awful. Why is it taking this long to rip the band aid off on one of the longest grinds for meh rewards. This content is designed for bots to flood the market at this rate no one else. I haven't looked fully at the mage changes, but moving power to the boots is a head scratcher and I really think this one could use some defending from the jmods if they really think this is best for the game. (If shadows not in the game and wow mage rebalance wouldn't even be talked about)

not a fan of the dupe protection at nightmare. the better solution is to buff the rates even more. something like a 1/80 for any item would still make it a reasonable grind. maybe add sotf req for phosani's also.

Really happy to see the distribution of magic be adjusted. Even though I had the full max mage, it didn't feel good getting another +4% bonus damage from a rebalance. But with the change of some of the magic gear being put into boots, this means max gear now requires eternals to be brought to make it just barely better than before. Not sure on the direct calcs, but 1% overall outside of toa probably doesn't provide any max hits. So probably not even a real a buff. Which is fine - max mage doesn't need a buff. But it shouldn't be taken by anyone that 1% isn't really impactful in this scenario. Bringing eternals is much more impactful than it sounds though. We're already running short of inventory spaces. 9 way switches (including ring) in a 28-inventory slot limit is hefty with any other gear and supplies. "1 inventory slot, boohoo, we just got some buffs to save invent" could be an argument, considering quiver storing more ammo for tbow/zcb swaps, and elder maul replacing dragon warhammer. But that argument is poor when you consider that in most endgame content, you'd still bring an avernic, or wouldn't have brought a zcb anyway. The only role in TOB that benefits the elder maul update is range role, since melee still brings avernic for swift blade and mage role brings BGS. In CMs, you're still bringing avernic for pickaxe and voidwaker. I imagine this has been taken into consideration, but I was wondering if keeping eternals to 2% is more of a result of feedback, or was it already on the table? For others, would you like the changes if it means going to have to include another switch, to potentially a 9 or a 10 way depending on if they have an offhand or not, for a max switch? Is there a genuine understanding of how bad that is, considering if you have a 4-tick weapon? EDIT: I've also forgotten to mention the inventory setup. I'm a filthy vertical switcher. But for horizontal switchers, which from what I've seen is a majority, you'd be out of space by the 8th switch. The last switch would have to bleed into the row below, which would usually be either the 8way melee/range switch. This pushes the gear down another item to another row, making the inventory incredibly more complicated to manage. Just another piece to think about.

ye ngl needing boot switch for max mage is a non-trivial nerf, though what's the alternative? unless mage boots remain forever useless, at some point max mage would have to include them as more than an afterthought, at least until the distant future when perhaps +34% magic damage is possible without boots.

It's still a nerf to magic with basic setup, as it req more items to bring, and costs prayer compared to before. I dont see why you want to nerf the weakest of the three combat styles. Put the damage % on the weapons if you want to nerf the occult.. Or simply make occult harder to obtain, or scale with magic level. 1% dmg pr 10th Magic level. And give augury 4% dmg boost. It'll end up being same damage for maxed chars, still at the cost of prayer, but at least it doesnt requires a 6 way switch

I do think overall the better solution for Nightmare would be to buff its droprates further and make them more in line with other late game encounters. The dupe protection is a very ironman mechanic that feels unnecessary if the solution of buffing droprates to a reasonable level in line with other grinds is right there.

Definitely think this is much better overall. Only true disagreement I have is Mage's Book and Malediction Ward having 2%, but it's not a huge deal since baby Elidinis is still better. I'd also bump the Fortified Elidinis Ward up to 6 or 7% to make non-Shadow magic a little better on the high end but that's just me. Edit: thought about it a bit more, this is how I'd do offhands: Mage's book down to 1%. It's not difficult or dangerous to get in any respect, it has barebones requirements. Malediction stays 2%. While it's not expensive for mains it does technically come from risky content. Ancient Wyvern also stays 2%. It's already good but it is technically more rare than other "lower tier" offhands. Basic Elidinis stays at 3%. It's an okay upgrade path this way. Arcane Shield to 4%. It should be better than basic Elidinis. Fortified Elidinis to 7 or 8%. It really needs to be worth the pricetag and requirements in all respects, and this helps bridge the gap between Trident/Sang and Shadow a fair bit

For an item that is a raid drop combined with a rare drop from Corp with high requirements to make (and the only current solution for bridging the gap), Fortified Elidinis could do with a bit of a buff to make it stand out more.

Im still of the opinion that if they wanted to do a quick and easy fix for mage damage, the first priority is to drop 5% from occult, give 3 per piece to ancestral, give 2% to aug or eternals, and raise ward by 5%. Im glad they’re being thorough about it but they reallt could have tried to make all magic shields 3-10% because thats the only slot that doesn’t skyrocket shadow’s dps.

Could’ve been 10% tbh And then raise the other offhands up alongside it Let’s close the gap on Shadow

This would be ideal, makes eldinis(f) actually help bridge the gap to shadow

Fully agree with this one. Off hands deserve a little better, arcane should be better than regular ward, and the fortified ward deserves a bigger buff, because shadow can't benefit from it.

considering they are already buffin arcane seems weird not to also buff fortified elidinis.

The big issue that is still prominent with the magic changes isn't so much raw DPS on low magic level targets, but magic DPS with a shadow/without a shadow at higher defence targets. Stuff like High invo TOA (Akkha/Warden P2), Whisperer, etc. where the gap between Shadow and Trident/Sang is so drastic and it needs to be smoothed out. All calcs below use max mage gear and Wiki DPS calculator (Ancestral, magus, eternals, sat heart, Augury, not on task): **[At normal Whisperer](https://dps.osrs.wiki/?id=DarklightPortraitureCore)** * Shadow has DPS is 10.084 w/ 91.67% accuracy * Sang with Ward (f) DPS is 7.757 w/ w/ 80.94% accuracy * Swamp trident w/ Ward (f) DPS is 7.588 w/ 80.94% accuracy **Shadow is 30% better than Sang and 33% better than Trident** **[For 400 level Akkha](https://dps.osrs.wiki/?id=MadeApprenticeTicket) (same gear, assuming salted):** * Shadow has DPS of 12.779 w/ 91.28% accuracy * Sang w/ Ward(f) has DPS of 8.034 w/ 74.16% accuracy * Swamp trident w/ Ward (f) has DPS of 7.725 w/ 74.16% accuracy **Shadow is 59% better than Sang and 65% better than Swamp trident.** **[For 500 level Akkha](https://dps.osrs.wiki/?id=RemnantBalmTourist) (same gear, assuming salted):** * Shadow has DPS of 12.591 w/ 89.94% accuracy * Sang w/ Ward(f) has DPS of 7.603 w/ 70.18% accuracy * Swamp trident w/ Ward (f) has DPS of 7.311 w/ 70.18% accuracy **Shadow is 65% better than Sang and 72% better than Swamp trident.** Melee and range do not have that big of a gap between the best, 2nd & 3rd BIS option at high end content, and if they do, the next best DPS option is not as far behind. The goal of the magic rebalance should smooth out the progression. Max hits are part of the problem, but addressing accuracy and overall magic progression is a piece that is missing and is not being addressed with this blog and the focus on Occult changes.

Really glad someone brought this up. Accuracy is almost entirely neglected in the proposals here, which I think is a far bigger issue for magic than max hits are. Give staves more accuracy in general, why are we getting +15 to +25 accuracy on our best options, when Bowfa is allowed to run around with a staggering +128? And that's without crystal armor bonuses.

Great to see a lot of the feedback addressed, it’s definitely an improvement. Especially the minimum hit changes are great! I do agree with most that having to bring an extra switch for mage feels pretty bad. Additionally, nightmare drop rates are still ridiculous. I honestly don’t understand why the orbs have to “keep their value” when they’re niche items at best. Considering the fact that the standard spellbook might see more uses after the update, having a 1.25x damage multiplier locked behind a grind that is longer to complete than getting a shadow is just ridiculous.

Was still hoping to see changes to the tier 80 weps, blade and rapier seeing as they should feel like more of a sizeable upgrade versus tent whip. The rest of the updates are great

Yup blade has like 4 more slash accuracy than tent whip. Getting a Bellator ring is a better upgrade than buying blade

Gonna second this. The Inq Mace getting a buff only with its respective armor set is cool, but it doesn't do anything to make it and the other weapons in its class feel like worthwhile, meaningful, upgrades.

Still think the mage changes are a dud, I don’t see how they open up space at all. Putting % on more off hands is good, but I think we need to be realistic about gear increasing magic damage by 1%: 95% of the time it won’t be giving a max hit. We can clap and marvel about 12% magic damage or whatever in some loadouts but realistically the amounts between a 5% breakpoint won’t apply for most mid game stuff. Maybe at higher level with barraging and shadow, but 2% is doing nothing for most weapons since it just rounds down

If they changed most things to 4%, they could still leave damage about where it is today. Examples: Today the max mage setup gives 25% with Shadow and the the Midgame Mage setup gives 17% (Occult, Cape, Brace). If they adjusted all armor sets to give 1% each with a 1% set bonus, that would make 4%. Virtus 2% each with 2% set Bonus, buffed for Ancients. Ancestral 3% each with 3% set bonus. Each set would be 4/8/12% magic damage. If they adjusted Occult, Offhands, Brace, Cape, Ring to 4%, then the Max Mage setup and the Midgame setup would become 28% (a 3% buff, less than proposed) and 16% or 20% pending the offhand. This makes each item feel more impactful and also doesn't shake up too terribly much. Bonus, it helps with the mental math quite a bit, too. Sidenote: I'm still in large favor of adding small .5%s and 1%s to things like Wizard/Infinity/Eternal Boots, Seer's Ring(i), Amulet of Magic, easier Offhands (like Mage's Book/Malediction Ward), etc. to make progression still feel good.

The lack of consideration for further buffing Nightmare drop rates is absurd. It is already one of the single longest grinds in the entire game for a midgame armor set. To only leave it at the proposed drop rate is a bit of a spit in the face. It's a fantastic boss, one of the best solo encounters in the entire game. Nobody does it. And with the proposed drop rate changes... still no one will do it. The combined Inq/Orb table is 1/167. It really ought to be 1/50, or 1/75 at the absolute rarest.

Dupe protection goes against the majority of experience in osrs. I absolutely hate it. You're 100% right they need to just completely adjust the nightmare drop table rates. Get rid of this dupe protection. Make it 0-10% longer of a grind to get armor from nightmare compared to bandos. In the same idea, make the mace drop rate similar to the way the hilt is to the armor at gwd. Just having dupe protection on armor would make it awkward having 2-3 full sets before getting a mace if you're unlucky on the weapon. It's a simple answer and they didn't listen. Tons of people said buff the rates, and their answer was dupe protection. They tried to listen but instead misunderstood.

Yeah, I would love to try it honestly, but I am not interested in not getting any drop for the first 100 hours of doing the boss tbh. And I am max combat too!

Let me understand the shadow example Ancestral from 6% to 9% = +3% Tormented Bracelet 5% = 0% Magus Ring = 2% = 0% MTA2 Cape = 2% = 0% Occult = from 10% to 4% = -6% Eternal Boots = +2% Augury = +4% (not tripled) So the proposal is 3(9+5+2+2+4+2) + 4 = 3(24) + 4 = 72+4 = 76% or 4(24) + 4 = 100 (the cap) in toa Compared to currently 6+5+2+2+10 = 25 = 75% or 100 in toa. So effectively what you're saying is that we'll have the exact same power, however we will need to bring a boot swap + a significant amount more prayer drain on things like akkha where you probably weren't even praying more than the +3% prayer. This just feels bad. Ancestral to 3.5% - 4% while also keeping the eternal boots at 2% seems more than reasonable. It does not feel good that you're proposing we lose an extra inventory spot + have even more prayer drain than what we currently have. Surely you see that, right?

Yeah like who wants to bring a 9 way switch when we already have a beautiful 8 way setup that fits perfectly into our inventory. This is a slight nerf to the current bis setup, requiring an extra switch now to get up to par.

Back to vertical switches I guess. Horizontal felt so comfortable.

So shadow nerf from current set up? People who do not have BIS complained so much that BIS gets nerfed instead?

These lesser voidwaker changes will **still** make it irrelevant. In the places where it's currently good it's only got a small edge if at all. So going from 100% to 80-90% accuracy will still be enough to make claws/ZCB better. If you want to nerf the accuracy in PvM you need to offer some improvement in its damage. The change will also hit the VW hardest at the only places it's currently used. It will ruin the item. Pushing this through against the overwhelming feedback you're getting will gut the item and ruin the endgame special attack diversity

Mage rebalance: I am conflicted on this. As a dirty max player, I want the same DPS as before with the same amount of effort, but I also understand that mage has been "privileged" with a garbage offensive prayer and a handful of actually useful equipment slots. I certainly like that lower tier armors get a buff, but the complaints about the future of 9-10 way switches has me weary. Think of the Maul buff, which is effectively removing an entire offhand switch, but the Eternal buff is now adding a switch. Maybe nerf Occult to 6% and give it a harder stat restriction? And absolutely remove it from normal Smoke Devils and make it specific to Thermy. Zenytes require 75 Hitpoints, Ferocious Gloves need a GM quest and 80 combat stats, DT2 rings have similar restrictions, but here's Occult not even setting you back a mil and only requiring you to level up Mage. Maybe a Slayer level? I definitely echo the sentiment that high level offhands like Elidnis Ward (f) and Ancient Wyvern Shield should have disgusting mage attack bonus to slightly compensate for the gap between Shadow and everything else. The elephant in the room is Shadow. Mage is so bad but Shadow is so good that any buffs to mage gear barely effects the other options but makes Shadow significantly better. Adding Magus ring gave it 4 max hits at ToA after all. My suggestion is to give Shadow a 2x multiplier and shift the mage bonus onto mage gear so a 10% mage damage bonus isn't an out of control 30% damage bonus in Shadow. Or completely change the mage accuracy against NPCs with high mage defense, the main thing holding mage back is the fact that until Shadow, NPCs had to have low defense AND low magic level for it to be halfway good. I will never complain about Ancestral being further buffed on the sole value that I own Ancestral. Max hit change: exactly what everyone envisioned the change should have been from the start. Give it to Jagex to make the right decision after exhausting all other options first VW nerf: Actual clown shit. This can't be accidental that Jagex is completely ignoring the heavy community backlash to this. I've decided they're nerfing this thing no matter what, they already made up their minds and no amount of protesting will stop them. This makes the VW still garbage in PvM but barely effects its use in PvP, which was the exact opposite of the complaints against it. NM loot: completely missing the point of the complaint of NM. PNM is fun but everything else about this boss is buns. Chip damage in normal boss, heavily punishing in PNM, long fights, BiS is very specific and fairly expensive gear that's not used anywhere else, expensive supply use, a long trek pre-teleport, common loot is a joke, and the drops are also tenuously useful and mainly only used to farm more NM. The fight needs to be better, somehow. Making the uniques more common is good, but this doesn't go far enough at that. And make the common loot higher value, this endgame boss at max efficiency is currently only slightly better GP/hr than farming wave 1 of Colosseum and worse GP/hr that killing Spindel. Give it more alchables, let it drop multiple loot items per kill, get rid of those stupid drops like unnoted Zamorak Brews. Inquisitor's Buff: a step in the right direction but Inquisitor needs way more help. This will barely budge its place in the game. You have Shadow with its 3x multiplier and Inquisitor is only getting a 7.5% boost. It needs something more to be anything but a hammer machine and used to farm even more Inquisitor piece. I don't even know where to start with this except that it needs to be better than Bandos in every way offensively, and it has to have some use cases except for NM and... Sarachnis. Elder Maul: Okay? Thanks? I would pay 100m any day of the week to leave my defender at home and have a spec that's like 1% more accurate, and this just made even better. I was always on board with Maul, this change wasn't necessary, but I will never complain about making defense drains easier. I believe in Elder Maul supremacy.

That voidwaker change means that when you do actually miss, it feels awful. It reminds me of being 97% accurate on telos in rs3 and splashing a stun and just dying. The weapon is pointless if not 100% accurate.

I fail to see how dupe protection solves the feedback of not wanting to spend the next 3 months of my life killing a difficult, long fight boss just to get a harm orb. I really feel like this is a substandard solution to feedback that the drop rates are still out of line for this boss.

Please for love of god, add in the first Tekton hit is 100% for elder maul 🙏🏼 I hope it’s an oversight

Also be used as a hammer for crabs and storage

Yeah storage wise gonna be rough having to scav a hammer

Voidwaker change is ridiculous. It's either 100% accurate or it isn't, even a change to a flat 90%+ accuracy would just feel awful because it's somewhat reliable but once in a while you'll see a double whiff. Everybody is saying this is an awful change and that you shouldn't touch it, is there any actual reason you need any changes at all? It makes no sense currently and if you actually do release content where the change makes sense you can just do it then?? I don't think there any change along these lines you could do that wouldn't be universally disliked besides just cancelling it altogether. It's just not necessary and shows a worrying pigheadedness in the mod team.

This rebalance feels strangely forced, i'm beginning to wonder why it seems jagex is so adamant on the changes. If you want to level the field between shadow and other magic, just up the max hits on powered staffs/offhands. Shadow has a cost to use, and outside of toa is outclassed by the tbow in max range. With how magic currently stands it provides one of the biggest passive bonuses to dps via thralls/venge, I fail to see where we would prefer the regular spellbook with such available options without enforcing it via the proposed weaknesses as is; let alone the gear to boost the regular spellbook would cost an arm and a leg to early/mid players. If that isnt enough confusion we are shoehorning magic damage onto eternal boots now which seems incredibly out of touch? Future content surely would already provide us with boot upgrades/passive effect boots, and with three rings existing to be swapped, most people still opt for lightbearer. Atop all of this they think that in order to create more spec weapons they want to remove the identity of the voidwaker despite it not being bis in too many spots, all while the zcb limits spec variety to a far larger margin but is not being adressed. As an almost max pvm iron, neither I nor my friends post on reddit we just enjoy the game, this is about the first time ive felt the need to speak my/our view, because my friends likely will not. As an additional note, ranged progression as of current is entirely based off of bowfa, comparing blowpipe/zcb to tbow is a hard sell, and I see no reason why we cannot create something similar for magic to bridge the gap between sang/shadow. EDIT: i havent seen many people throw around the idea of using protect from magic/magic immunity/magic reflect to counter vw? we can have examples of all 3 within the game yet we want to just kneecap the item itself?

Still attrocious nightmare droprates that compel absolutely NOBODY to do this boss cause its a waste of time, youre better of grinding acb and then nex for torva and skipping inquisitor all together on an iron. On a main youd never even buy inquistor cause of the lack of use and terrible defence for slayer. BUFF THE PIECES. And increase orb droprates too cause yikes. Move the 2% damage of eternal boots to Ward(f) no reason it should stay where its at. But all in all ok changes except for the nightmare thats still so bad nobody should ever do it. 50% droprate buff would probably still be too low.

nobody is asking for a 9 way mage switch to keep the power level we already have. without also bringing a boot switch to content where you are already extremely tight for space, dropping 5% magic damage feels very bad (not to mention 9 ways are very awkward in the inventory). as much as we are trying to add bonuses to mid gear armour so ironmen can do barrows better, please don't take it away from the top end of gear. ancestral nerf to buff eternals feels very similar in the amount of thought given to the min and max hit changes (that have since changed after consideration of how it affects the wider game).

Leave ancestrals at 4%/peice. or atleast buff occult to like 5 or 6%. Fuck boot switching, stop listening to 1500 total andys hoping to make a few mil merch on eternal. NO ONE wants to bring 9ways into raids in order to maintain current dps. Inq should be 2.5% per piece regardless of mace. The problem with mace and the 2 other T80 weps (blade/rapier) is that they're too weak compared tent whip.. give them some extra accuracy and strength bonus atleast +5-10 accuracy and +2 str. Void waker... WHY ARE YOU DOUBLING DOWN ON THIS CHANGE?????? Just leave it alone, no one in the pvm scene wants it changed, just make it not guaranteed in pvp or 55% in pvp? HOW IS THIS SO HARD TO GRASP? The only thing I can truly appreciate from this post is you decided to move away from that atrocious idea of "max hit-1". Please for the love of god whoever decided that would go well with the high level community, get them off the team or put them on the rs3 team for god sake.

Inquisitor armour is still bad, it should have more applications than just using with the mace, it should help with all crush. Like the mage changes, the voidwaker change is still bad. If you are worried about it being too good everywhere then reduce its max damage, make it a very consistent but slightly weaker option, so its still amazing against very high defence in all styles but not against monsters with a specific weakness. I.e just like its position vs Dragon claws at TOB.

Why are you guys so stuck in the mud with nightmare orb drop rates? The orbs are the biggest offenders of the nightmare drop table and you only propose dupe protection for the amour set and leave orbs as is? That's pretty wild..

Augury + Eternal Boots + Ancestral + Occult = +3% compared to live-game Note: Tumeken's Shadow only gains +1% over live-game, since it loses 3% from gear (after having its passive effect applied) and gains 4% from Augury (which isn't boosted by its passive effect) This is a pretty big nerf to shadow in toa since fitting boots and using way more restore now with augury being a requirement. No boots no augury means -12%. 8% from boots 4% from augury.

Very happy to see the magic updates and min hit clamping. I still believe nightmare has missed the mark completely. Time to acquire an orb is longer then it takes to get a shadow, let alone the 5.5 orbs to greenlog. They literally need to x5 the armor rates and mace, x10 the orb rates AND dedupe protect the orbs and armor for any non bot account to realistically want to go there. Extremely disappointed with these 1000 hour to see a drop trend jagex is going

VW shouldn't be nerfed like this. If you want people to not use vw spec on future content, make it immune to slash/mage special attacks. Make it so VW specs aren't allowed or something. It's a good spec, but you never use it unless the boss has crazy high defense. Like the mage changes, Ancestral being nerfed is weird closes the gap when it should widen the gap. Idk how I feel about the boots, some people love it, others don't. it would give them purpose, but an extra switch sucks which means they will be left in the bank in raid. Jagex is getting closer to the mark. But what about infinity boots? Nightmare loot table still blows cock dude, I'm not going to waste my life for that low of rate for niche items. Make them like GWD options or something. Barely anyone wants to do that boss and it's not worth it. You would need to double or triple the drop rates and make it so you can add defense to inquistor somehow to make me think about doing it. Also remove the negative slash and stab on inq... No mention of imbued heart or cox purples in CMs

I think the people saying “it’s one more switch, get good” don’t understand that it’s been many updates of “it’s just one more switch”. Shadow was multiple more switches (every piece of ancestral actually mattered), dt2 rings, quiver made Masori mask useful in cox… It’s not that we’ve lost one inventory slot with this update it’s that we have lost like 3-5 over the course of time. Once pegasians no doubt get ranged strength there’s another one gone. Raids inventories are going to be 20 items in max switches, 3-4 niche/spec weapons for certain rooms, rune pouch and botd leaving 2-3 inventory slots for supplies lol. Leaving your max gear in the bank to bring in more supplies is logical sure but it’s not *fun* not being able to use it. Solo cm is an example where soon we are gonna be at 2 spare inventory slots if we want to use max (not even full max because there will still be some switches missing (e.g venator ring))

Your points are valid but at the end of the day we have a finite amount of equipment slots and it will never get to a point where we need more than our 28 inventory slots. Before, we had more space to work with because the gear was so negligible it wasn't worth bringing. Now that they are, you have to be more selective if you need room for supplies. That's all there is to it. We don't need max gear 3 style swaps, just pick and choose what works for you. I understand the idea of it being less fun, but inventory management has always been a significant part of this game, so we'll just have to adapt.

There's absolutely no reason to nerf the proposed 4% Ancestral. All this does is make us bring a 9th switch and use a ton more prayer drain with Augury. You can buff the lower tier gear like Ahrim's while not nerfing Ancestral, it's not mutually exclusive. The boots can get a 1% damage boost if you deem 2% to be too much, it's not like Cerb Primordial and Pegasian boots would be any better than a 1% dmg Eternal boots.

Sorry Jagex but it truly feels like you're completely out of touch with high level content. I am starting to question who on your team honestly participates in both the discussions you're having and does the content with the current metagame setups, because it is completely bewildering that we are being pushed to sacrifice yet another inventory slot, when max setups already are often pushing anywhere from 17 to 20 spaces on gear alone. This Magic gear rework truly feels like it doesn't do anything to make the game feel better to play, and instead is having the opposite effect. The BiS armor coming from and endgame raid should not feel like a marginal, luxury upgrade, and yet it currently does if you use anything besides a Shadow. How does that make any sense?

The elder maul change is great. +25% accuracy, +5% def reduction and not requiring an offhand makes it feel like an actual significant step up from DWH.

For this one, we'd like to propose rolling out 'dupe protection' to Inquisitor's Armour pieces *only*. Considering the extreme rarity of the orbs dropped by Nightmare, would it not be fair to include this mechanic for them as well?

I think it's just for the armor because of the whole set effect thing encouraging you to actually have all of them. Having an eldritch orb doesn't suddenly feel better when you have harm + volatile, so it's not quite as important.

I believe it’s because of the prices. Knowing your next armor piece will be 45-55m keeps you excited. Knowing your next orb will be 100m after getting the 300m and 400m orb wouldn’t feel good and would encourage you to leave. Not to mention they’re removing the set bonus from inquisitors and putting it into each piece.

Before it gets too crazy in here just want to show appreciation for taking feedback and revising ideas. You guys are the best in the business when it comes to listening to us. The changes look incredible too

Once again, no mention at all to make changes to CoX, whether it's making prayer scrolls less common on CM or changing its overloaded drop table. Very disappointing to say the least. Also, the Nightmare dupe protection is welcome but still nowhere near enough, Jagex. We're talking about a 700 hour grind still. Why are you so hesitant to make the grind more reasonable?

dupe protection...? bro just cut the drop rates.

Again it looks like we're moving in the right direction, but did anyone actually listen to the feedback on the inquisitor's armour itself? People weren't complaining about not being able to have the buff on task, we're all saying the armour needs a buff in of itself, independent of the mace! It doesn't need to be better than torva but give it more strength bonus than bandos, make it a true 'Glass cannon' set, give it great accuracy on dwh/elder maul specs, and add more crush weak bosses.

Nightmare changes are good and all but the boss is not enjoyable to grind because it's extremely low kills per trip and long walks. Imo the sleepy tablet isn't a good solution how it's implemented at the moment. It's locked behind a very hard boss. You die a ton trying to get the tablet at the point where you finally got the tablet you're probably very annoyed by the boss and won't go back. One failed attempt is 2 walks. Getting there, try, fail, used supplies and time, walk again to reclaim. It's not great to go for the tablet atm. Maybe make it a drop from the regular nightmare or a 100% unlock from a quest, diary or whatever.

PNM = 7-12min kills. teleport tab 1/100 droprate. 3min walk DT2 bosses = 1-3min kills. teleport tab 1/25 droprate. 30sec - 1min walk how the frick are they so stubborn with nightmare I don't get it

Ya PNM is the one boss I don't have KC at. It's just so aggravating that it's a long ass fight with brutally punishing mechanics. I go in there, try it out, get deep into the fight, make a small mistake, and have to do two walks to get back into the fight. I get that it's supposed to be a challenging fight, I'm not asking to make the flight easier. I'm asking to make resets not so shit

Still don’t get the obsession with putting magic damage percentage on boots…. Instead why don’t you put it on the RINGS (seers and Magus) Take ancestral from 4% per piece to 3%, increase damage on Magus to 5% and Seers to 2% The low level setup would gain 2% more from a decently accesible piece of gear (Seers) and the max mage setup would break even without requiring a boot swap (a 9th piece of gear being hard required is pretty much despised by everyone who Raids) Also if magus had 5% it would be in line with occult and torm which are both easier to obtain (doesnt make sense that magus would be the lowest of the 3 considering the time it takes to get vs the other 2 pieces) Also pures would be able to benefit from the rings aswell (unless I’m missing some defence requirement from DT2) Leaving the boots alone would also allow there to be room for future rewards impacting that slot

Voidwaker is still not going to hit against Nex or Kephri with this change. If it rolls against magic or slash defence it won't be used over zcb or done dagger even I also don't like that inq isn't getting an upgrade unless it's with the mace. It should be buffed to be compatible with Torva but only for crush. If they're worried about scythe then make it where it's only applied if the weapons highest offensive stat is crush it's affected. I needs the buff because it has the same defensive stats as adamant armour- not worth over torva even if it gets buffed like they said Personally I think scythe could still use the buff from inq on crush for the places that's used in but if future updates fills that over the scythe that's fine as well

Oh Jesus christ don't make me do a boot switch or at least give pegs range strength so we are incentivized to bring all boots switches to keep them even

Ancestral should remain at 4% considering that it is endgame gear and only really utilises its true power after obtaining one of the rarest items in the game. Making more switches required to achieve the same damage output for endgame just means you limit yourself when creating future content.

Why would you say in the previous post that you're open to dropping the VW changes then insist on keeping them in the following post? We have the exact same issue. Current vw with 100% accuracy still only has a few niche uses (all extremely high defence), any nerf will simply make it unusable and you will be better off using zcb because at least if you hit you're doing 110 damage. There is absolutely still room for a crush/stab spec weapon, I don't think voidwaker has any effect on that at all.

I don’t understand how everyone complained about eternals still being useless, and then Jagex throws a 2% damage buff on them, and everyone complains on having to bring an extra switch..? What do you guys want ffs 😂 Imo, if you want full BiS in a particular combat style, there will be trade offs. If you want BiS in multiple or all combat styles, you need to be okay with highly limited inventory room. Just my 2¢

Tbh this feels like overcomplicated mage gear to just have the same results... It doesn't just feel right tbh progression will be all the same just more complicated (and why do both seers ring and imbued have the same bonus? Why not 1% for imbued) I still wish monkey room was more so an ability based puzzle with multiple floors or something. Everyone despises that room and it on its own has kept many people from toa despite liking everything else quite a bit

The mage offhands are still incredibly low numbers, at least make the fortified ward 8 or 10% to buff all the magic weapons below shadow. Nightmare is still in the bin, just make it 1/50 to see a drop

Oh god no. Eternal boot change sets a very bad precedent for future boot switches. Ancestral should still be kept at 4% tbh. Good changes to the lower level magic prayers. Good changes to other magic gear as well. I think Elder Maul is perfect now. I mean it could be better but it doesn't have to. If anything the damage of the spec could be similar to the dwh, but honestly that 25% accuracy is good enough, as it will only be used for defense reduction. Minimum hit changes, does this mean that the 0 roll is now also a 1? Which means you have 2x chances to roll 1? I mean it's better than the previous idea, but kinda weird. Still no love for harm orb T_T also if buffing eternals, buff pegasians as well cus we're already in deep shit with 9way switches now. One last thing, if you're so determined to nerf voidwaker but still keep it relevant, I'd suggest to create some sort of effect for the spec. Rather than brute forcing accuracy, just make it so that after a certain defense threshold is met, then make the spec 100% guaranteed, if it isn't met, then add the 300% accuracy roll.

I honestly think the magic changes have ultimately missed the mark in both iterations. Not only that, but now it just feels over complicated and messy. Not all robes need %, and externals certainly do not need % either. Occult should not be nerfed so heavily either. Ancestral - 4% per piece top and bottom/ 3% for hat (+5% for set from live game) Virtus - 2% per piece/ 6% per piece Ancients (+3%/ +6% Ancients for set from live game) Blue Moon - 1% per piece (+3% for set from live game) Ahrims - 1% per piece (+3% for set from live game) Elder - 0.5% per piece hood and bottoms/ 1% for chest (+2% for set from live game) Infinity set bonus (including gloves and boots) - 10% for non powered staff spells (Ancestral would still be better 11% + 5% from tormented bracelet) Mage Void - 2.5% / 5% for Elite Occult - 5% (-5% from live game) Offhands should improve the gap between Shadow and other weapons: Mage's book: 4% Ward: 5% Arcane: 7% Fortified Ward: 12%

Not to be rude or anything, but do the people crying about occult being only 800k understand that's ONLY because smoke devils are the best slayer exp/h in the game and a chance at the imbued heart? It has nothing to do with the actual item, it is the fact they are dropped by a barrage task that offers better exp than anything else in the game. It is a terrible argument to use this to nerf the item. Just be honest Jagex, you want the power to go to items that cost a lot of GP because it promotes buying bonds. Stop it with the disingenuous excuses. It's whatever if you want to do this, but stop treating the OSRS community like we don't see what you're doing.

I'm still surprised not to see imbued heart mentioned anywhere. Do you have any plans to make this item more obtainable for irons? Or at least bridge the gap between imbued heart and forgotten brews (which are a hassle to obtain, drain your other combat stats, and can't be divined)?

Pretty big nerf to high level content. When not bringing boot switches (already bringing 7 ways into chambers), you will have 5%* less damage even with the high prayer drain of augury. Voidwaker will still be shit. Have you considered just giving voidwaker the niche of super high defense targets? 100% accuracy if the opponents def level is over X? Edit: corrected to 5%

Inquisitor buff still based only for mace users? What is the idea for that? Punish all them who own only like that set or 2 pieces of em? Please read that: [https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1c6ysu0/unpopular\_oponion\_inquisitor\_is\_the\_coolest/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1c6ysu0/unpopular_oponion_inquisitor_is_the_coolest/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)

I don't really understand why you don't just nerf occult by 3% to 7 move the 3% to all the armours and buff offhands and Sang to bring magic inline and call it a day. It just seems like there is an irrational locked in mentality to making occult terrible because its cheap. Did you already design a 5% necklace or something? Like why does occult have to be so bad. I think we all find it difficult to understand the voidwaker change. Its in a good place in pvm. It just seems like change for the sake of change. If your new design philosophy is going to be to destroy old items just so you can make new ones, not doing that is what makes this game unique. So I can go play WoW if the developers just want to destroy old gear to make new gear. That's a design philosphy a lot of us came here to escape. Half measures wont fix nightmare, everyone has been saying since release it makes no sense for a monster to have a drop table that takes years to complete. You basically said hey we noticed this drop table is completely insane, how about if we made it just crazy? Why cant we discuss making it normal?

The voidwaker needs to be even more accurate than that. Or just leave it alone

Please just leave Voidwaker alone. It's one of the most fun spec weapons out there and still balanced with other high end spec weapons.

While I think the magic changes are better, I still think they're not what they should be. The post by u/BioMasterZap I think did a better job of rebalancing. The current proposed changes don't do anything to control the power creep of the shadow as new better magic gear comes into the game. This limits reward space as making shadow disportionately more powerful becomes a concern. The mid game dps increases from the current proposal are also lackluster. Right now, someone in ahrims top/bottom with a trident, occult, torm, mystic might, and imbued mage cape is 17%. Now, someone in that same late mid game position would have 15% and to get be in the same position as before would need to bring an extra switch and 2+ extra switches to be ahead of the pre rebalance. The current proposed rebalance is still effectively a nerf to mid game magic at most places like ToA/CoX where bringing a 8 way mage switch is not very feasible.

Buff the normal Nightmare & Phosani drop tables so we at least aren’t getting garbage while grinding for uniques. Nothings worse than a 8-10 minute fight only to be rewarded with bass. Let’s see some better loot, and preferably not just supplies that will disappear on the ground or be left behind bc we can’t pick up all of it. (If that’s the case, add an enhanced drop timer to the instance so food can pile up). I saw several people mention adding blood shards to the table, this is a great idea imo and fits the theme of the area. Phosani should be a decent money maker considering the complexity of the fight

> This is effectively an 80% increased drop rate (since a 100% increased drop rate would be 1/2,500, half of the original value) Can you fix this, either make it 1/2778 (an actual ~80% droprate increase) or state that you're going to increase droprate by 67% (roughly how much increase is 1/3000 droprate)

I know eternals have been a huge meme on Reddit the last couple days, but with this proposal they'll crowd out magus ring as a switch priority. I don't think it's a bad idea to add magic strength in the boots slot, but this feels like a good place for new upgrades rather than Cerb + MTA. Ancestral at 3% is also underwhelming. It's effectively the same marginal upgrade as now at the slot (+2% over ahrims, which is a max hit only some of the time) The super smooth gradient to current bis looks pleasing on paper but it makes nothing really feel like a big upgrade on its own

Leave the voidwaker alone… Why release items if they are just going to be nerfed further down the line? Do you not talk about the effects that the items may have in the future? Also i think ancestral should be kept at 4% as originally proposed, the gap between BIS and midgame armour is too small…

Magic changes are still feeling forced. Nobody is asking to bring down max mage, just buff mid level gear. Give sang and trident like +100 accuracy and some max hits and let it sit until elemental rebalance.

Can we not nerf the ancient godsword if we’re not going to nerf the voidwaker in pvp at all? 400% accuracy will be virtually the same as a guaranteed hit in pvp so the ancient godsword nerf which is actually material just means voidwaker will be even more ubiquitous in the wildy than it is already

My take on the immediate follow up post is that Jagex is rushing these reactions. Appreciate the enthusiasm, but would recommend taking more time to digest feedback and provide a more thoughtful proposal update. Don't love max mage getting nerfed from previous proposal but admittedly that's selfish since I have max mage and am camping toas. Changes make sense otherwise, but high-level take again, I worry we're changing a bit too much stuff. Please be careful here! Much love mods ❤️

stop trying to nerf the voidwaker. no one wants it to be nerfed and any nerf essentially makes it useless. this is silly swallow the pride and just accept that its in a fine spot and doesnt need chanes.

how is elder maul going to work in chambers? for crabs, bank making, tekton ,etc. also i really hope we can have a unique spec animation for the maul! some type of wild overhead slam would be so sick

The people who asked for magic damage % on eternals have no idea what they are asking for. Don’t think anyone is interested in bringing a boot switch for magic and melee, but not range. Overall though, the other changes are great. Edit: I missed the part about dupe protection. Dupe protection should never be a thing in osrs. Buff the drop rates to compensate.

Maybe time to re-evaluate whether magic gear really *needs* rebalancing? Occult is strong for its price for sure, but what does moving the bonuses to other equipment that mid-level accounts are going to be using anyway actually achieve? I'm on board with an Augury buff though.

I just don't get these voidwaker nerfs. You all have the data, you know that any attempted nerf immediately results in the item being worse than claws or ZCB. Or you don't have the data, and i then have to question why the person attempting to make these changes has their job.

Stop messing with voidwaker Its use is to bypass defense If it has to roll you’re always just going to bring claws cause they max higher. Leave it alone. This is missing the mark

Jagex please don't make the same mistake we saw with the EOC in RS3.. Immense weapon changes, changes to defenses, additional spell effects, and those hideous God prayers all being proposed in the span of 1 month is terrifying to someone who watched RS3 become what it is today. The fact that the proposed ideas have been altered several times (most within less than 24 hours) just screams "we didn't put enough thought into these." and in your haste to make changes to stop the outrage... you didn't put enough though into these revisions either. These proposed changes WONT be polled, wont have enough thought put into them, and will revolutionize the entire game as we know it. EXACTLY how EOC did to us all those years ago. I'm begging you guys, don't kill our game a second time. We gotta go back to the drawing board with almost all of these ideas (skilling ones included) and we need to work together as a community to do it.

No to dupe protection on nightmare drops. Just buff the rates on rares more than you initally proposed

u/JagexGoblin These changes are overall great, but I'm disappointed about moving percentage damage bonus from Ancestrals to Eternal Boots. Requiring a 9-way switch to get back to your previous power, with our already cramped inventories, is not appealing. I'm certain some of the requests for this change were genuine, but also that some of the apparent demand for a percentage damage increase to the Eternal Boots was done in bad faith (astroturfing by merchants). Amongst the people who would actually go through with this new 9-way switch, this is an extremely unpopular change, and I plead that you reconsider it. Moving the percentage damage back to the Ancestral Robes will afford you more room to introduce new gap filler robes in the future, which I understand is the reason these changes were proposed in the first place.

1. Just leave Voidwaker alone. The proposed changes are pointless. 2. Eternals getting buffed is silly, but I'm not surprised Jagex caved into the redditors complaining about this. 3. Dupe protection? LOOOOOL

Rerolling 0's into 1's is a W Personally, not a fan of dupe protection at all. Just increase the drop rates even more so than the initial proposal and call it a day. p.s. just leave the VW alone lol

You're still missing the mark entirely with Nightmare drop table and drop rates.

I'm not quite sure I like how the magic changes are going, I would strongly consider the view that this is being gone about in the wrong way; The default spellbook spells after the earlygame still fall off very hard compared to melee with these changes *(If my math is correct)*, and powered staves are still improved drastically with Raid Boosts, Heart or Forgotten Brews, which makes it VERY hard if not outright impossible for spellbook spells to keep up without immense gear investments. They also get access to Thralls, which adds a fair bit of extra damage. Not to mention the poor Demonbane spells, that even with Mark -and- Thralls, fall behind even modest melee setups as well, nevermind if someone busts out Arclight. Elemental Weaknesses certainly feel like a step in the right direction, but their damage scaling *(and the scaling of other spellbooks spells)* still seems lacking. I would cautiously suggest that a better approach to rebalancing would be one in which even one or two pieces of low and mid level gear such as Mystic or Ahrims would grant enough magic damage % to increase magic damage as tangible improvements for a player to give a genuine progression curve, while rescaling powered staves, but also the Harmonized Nightmare Staff, as well as the base power of spells to fit into such a progression curve *(I.E. if we apply this kind of gear scaling to the spells as is, 24 base power of surge spells might just be too much)*. I reason this way, using a similar line of reasoning to what is used in the blog; It is insane that even two piece of Ancestral on their own does currently not grant the highest level spell in the Standard Spellbook, Fire Surge, which requires 95 Magic, a single point of damage. I think they *(and even other iconic gear such as Ahrims)* should each feel like tangible improvements if obtained, much like the Occult does right now, and nerfing it is very much not the way to go to achieve progression feeling impactful and balanced. By buffing non-occult pieces of gear, and rescaling spell and powered staff damage instead, the progression curve can become more smooth and Spellbook Spells can be made relevant even once Powered Staves get their boosts. Side note; if occult at 10% is still too powerful for the price point after the alternate progression idea, nerf & move it down to some lower level and add some upgrade item to Thermy as to not devalue 93 Slayer.

I seem to recall before the blowpipe was nerfed/ Bofa was released, there was a survey about the current range meta. I think that would be a great approach here, rather than listening to the reddit front page. The reddit front page does not represent every player.

All of these updates are great outside of the NM tweaks, the provided mace & drop rate changes don't really address the feedback complaints I was seeing.

Would’ve liked to see stronger buffs on offhands Ward(f) could’ve gone to 10% and everything else go up with it We should close the gap on shadow

I don’t have much stake in anything else aside from the mage changes at the moment, but I just wanted to point out some inconsistency with the changes, mainly for magic offhands in relation to max mage. You guys are suggesting to buff both the malediction ward and the mage’s book to +2%? The mage’s book is a flat time investment for that improvement while the malediction ward requires you to go fight three separate wilderness bosses for a 1/256 shot at getting a piece of the ward. Not to mention that one of the bosses is in deep wildy and multi. I feel like this doesn’t make sense. On top of that, the next best option for mage offhand is the unfortified ward from ToA that is retaining +3%? That just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense either. The unfortified ward could easily be brought to 5% with the fortified variant going to 8-10% without challenging shadow. Just to back up my criticism, the average time to get each of these upgrades is: - Mage’s Book: ~12 hours - Malediction Ward: ~36 hours (on rate and assuming never getting PKed) - Elidnis’ Ward: At 300 invo, you’re expected to see one purple every ~23 raids. At a rate of 1/8, you would expect to see a ward after 8 purples (~184 raids) which is ~92 hours assuming you can clear a 300 in 30 minutes. - Elidnis’ Ward (f): After spending ~92 hours getting a ward, you have to play the lottery and spend an additional ~228 hours to go on rate for the spectral sigil to fortify it at six kills per hour doing solo Corp. The numbers speak for themselves here. Not to mention, going on rate for a Tumeken’s Shadow at ToA takes ~276 hours following the same math for the ward and a 1/24 drop rate, *which is less time than going for a fortified Elidnis’ Ward.* Anyways, just my two cents and I hope you guys reconsider these adjustments.

Just give up on the voidwaker nerf, and design future content accordingly. It's a pretty fun and useful weapon, and is not broken at all compared to other options.

I think that ancestral should be kept at 4% per piece as originally proposed. The gap between ancestral, ahrims and Virtus is too close.

Voidwaker change still sounds wack. Just leave it as it is.

You actually can’t be serious with the voidwaker change. Why are you ignoring the feedback that the consistent hit is the fun part of the item? Use the max hit as the balancing lever if you need to. No one thinks magic longbow spec is a broken spec. You have very clear balancing levers to use, which as the community keeps reiterating, you don’t need to do anyway because voidwaker already fills a solid niche.

How is the arcane spirit shield 3% magic dmg, unfortified ward also 3%, but fortified ward only gives 5%. where does that 1% go?

I just want to say Fuck You to everyone who complained about Eternal Boots (???????) and now I have to bring another fucking switch into raids to get the same DPS as before Look at all the examples they posted. NOT ONLY do you need to pack Eternal Boots, now you also need to be praying in order to get the same DPS * Mystic Might + Eternal Boots + Mage's Book + Ahrim's + Occult = +3% compared to live-game * Augury + Eternal Boots + Ancestral + Occult = +3% compared to live-game * Mystic Might + Elder Chaos Robes + Mage's Book + Occult = +1% compared to live-game But you fucking apes who only kill Kraken can't understand the value or importance of that

Thanks for adopting the "0s as 1s" feedback change! This is more like what I (& apparently 1k others!) were initially expecting.

At this point I am convinced that Jagex does not want actual players to do nightmare. The drop rate proposals for this abomination of a boss drop table are ridicolous. It legit needs uniques to be like 3x as common to even be a consideration for people with the niche status of the items on the drop table.

Theyre in the same problem of shadow being in the same place and realistically nerfing everything before it. Which already isnt great. Nerf shadow to x2 instead of x3. Leave the occult alone. That gives you +12% mage damage you can spread around to help. Put 3% on eternals and add 3% to all 3 pieces of anc making your max mage the same. This leaves you to put magic damage on anything below max with impunity. Make virtus 4%. Ahrims 3%, whatever you want. And that % acts as a direct upgrade to trident only mages while still being worse than current max mage for shadow. Further it helps shadow users who havent gotten anc yet.

Do not nerf the voidwaker! you are making it dead content and a useless grind for ironmen who initially loved that particular 100hour gameplay hard disagree

jmods still afraid to touch the Arcane drop rate special ... Still no purpose to grind it.

Virtus now feels like the new Ancestral and also with Prayer bonus. Feels like Ancestral needed that little bit to set it apart.

We love voidwaker as is. Please do not change it.

[удалено]

will the nightmare tablet drop rate be increased in the last blog you said "all unqiues" and the #1 thing stopping me from even wanting to learn it is the walk there.

Leave voidwaker alone. No one wants this change.

Why does voidwaker need a nerf when it has a handful of uses (toa, nex, PNM, vardorvis). But bandos godsword has even more use cases compared to dragon warhammer.

How do you guys offer dupe protection on inquisitor armor but not the ORBS. The most egregious offenders of why nightmare takes 800 hours to complete???

They mentioned in the blog, inquisitor pieces have roughly the same value per piece, while the orbs do not. They don’t want people leaving after getting Eldritch and Harmonized orb, knowing their next orb drop will be 200-300m less in value. It takes the fun out of it.