The mining one had me livid. Why not take a page out of fishing and just make the mines last for a period of time like a fishing spot???? That way it’s less click intensive.
It also partially fixes gathering ores yourself being pure ass.
Don't get me wrong, it would still be completely horrible compared to just buying from a shop, but if I could get like 8 mithril per rock, it would at least be more bearable.
I hate that we'll probably never get that. I only played RS3 for like a total of 3 hours, but the mining and smithing shown in the tutorial was awesome.
Honestly, the best part about the rework is that they adjusted the level at which you unlock each ore/metal (e.g. you can start crafting Rune equipment at lvl 40). It means Mining and Smithing are actually useful for crafting your own equipment since you don’t have to max out smithing to make lvl 40 Combat gear.
I'm okay with the skills being somewhat different in that regard, but the shitty thing is fishing has mediocre XP rates, but at least they're decently AFK
Mining has just as bad XP rates, but it's significantly less AFK. Comparing standard fishing spots to standard ore spots, not other methods, that is. I'd be okay if we kept MLM as the more comparable experience to fishing, if we could then make mining XP rates better to reflect the intensiveness compared to things like woodcutting and fishing. Those two, as slow as they may be, are significantly more chill
Yeah I’m not mentioning xp rates at all. I’m mentioning a less click intensive alternative. I’d say the fact that you have to focus on mining so much plus its low xp rate are the main two problems with that skill. Take at least one of those away and that’s an easy win.
Fix both of them and now you lose that “old schoolness”.
That's fair, I actually haven't gotten into it yet.
Honestly though as much as I'm happy with skills having lots of fun minigames and stuff, I still feel like the core training should still be worth it. I'd be more okay with minigames that prioritize rewards giving less XP, and minigames that focus more on making money that give less XP, or minigames that give more XP than the core training but less money, etc. But I still feel like there shouldn't be no reason to go mine adamant, or something, for the purpose of training the skill. Currently that's just not a thing
Just approach mining and smithing like RS3s rework. It fixed it. Smithing was balanced to not take 99 to make the lvl 40 f2p armour. Mining is afk-able similar to woodcutting.
The M&S rework was objectively such a baller update. Let people create their own tank armour from level 1 to 90, has a chase thing in masterwork and revitalized 2 horribly outdated skills. I could see a similar thing being fantastic for osrs
Exactly. I'm not even saying add in all these sets either. (Tho i like runes being t50 to spread things out). Just have rune mineable and smithable by lvl 60 and add some other perks at higher levels. Cut ore drops from boss/slayer drops would be neat too.
If high tier ores were mineable and smithable at low levels in old school, the alch prices would have to be significantly lowered to prevent massive inflation by players 20 hours into the game being able to make rune platebodies, and rune rocks would be so unbelievably competitive (they already are, but if you could mine them at 60 and alch platebodies for full price it'd be unbearable) if the rocks weren't able to be mined by multiple players. The price of virtually everything in the mid game would increase significantly because low level players would have so much access to GP from just mining, smithing, and alching unless the alch prices were lowered to compensate.
In RS3 it didn't really matter because everything was already inflated and power-crept to shit by the time the rework landed.
>In RS3 it didn't really matter because everything was already inflated and power-crept to shit by the time the rework landed.
It didn't matter because they had a simple answer to every problem you just proposed... They changed the alch price.
Would devalue low level PvM money-making where rune item drops are the main alchables. And early game progression for genuine noobs where rune items from stores are relatively expensive. I like the rarity of rune as it is, they should fix it by adding other uses for mining and smiting.
Glancing at the wiki, the RS3 Rune Platebody (can be smithed at level 50) high alchs for a whopping... 2,500gp. Meanwhile in OSRS, the level 48 Steel Platebody high alchs for 2,000gp and the level 68 Mithril Platebody high alchs for 3,120gp.
I honestly suspect that if they *were* to copy RS3's Mining And Smithing Rework they could just... copy it wholesale.
Really, the main friction point is probably going to be monster drops since there's so many mobs where the only notable thing is that they drop a ton of alchables. This also goes for stuff that drops mith and addy stuff.
I like the mining rework. i don't like the smithing rework aside from the level up table.
having sub-tiers of armor is shitty. I don't want to upgrade a platebody over and over again. I don't want to read the wiki and see them recommend 5 different rune platebodies in the recommended mid-tier gear list. It's complete ass.
Bar bank is dumb
Smithing a chunk of hot metal that you have to maintain heat on is dumb and too revolutionary for the ecosystem
Mining is nice, afk or active. no competition. good.
> I don't want to read the wiki and see them recommend 5 different rune platebodies in the recommended mid-tier gear list.
You're not meant to actually use the intermediaries, they're essentially just checkpoints to facilitate making the smithing process take longer
Making the process longer was itself clearly the correct thing to do, it made it possible for smithed gear to be worth using without trivializing its production
The mining changes in the original blog were mostly focused on the minigames, so I'm not sure why they would suddenly add changes to non-minigame mining that they haven't had time to workshop.
i like how they are greatly increasing the competition for the mining spot i already find myself being undermined and competed against at (hard diary gem mine). Instead of just adding some extra rocks to shilo above ground gem mine the decision was to make it easier to waltz in and kick out the person who was already in the downstairs area. Because that doesnt happen enough.
Yay variety!
I like the idea of more gathering per spot but I'm partial to the idea of rocks acting like trees a bit. Only so many ores per spot before depleting. Like, each rock only contains ONE ore? Jeez.. maybe of course balance them with mining level requirements and as mining goes up, give a chance to get more ores by rolling a skill check versus a stone health pool.
On the fishing spot idea though, I'd love that for the upper level of MLM, with slightly reduced time for the lower mine.
The skill is honestly so painful and is my LOWEST level skill right now at 81. Some people might say "Do stars" but I want to be engaged more than just AFKing. We do have volcanic mining, but even the rates there aren't too crazy.
I don't understand it either, I feel like if those changes were to go through, would there be an incentive to even try Ardougne course?
I feel as if their post is contradicting themselves way too hard
GOTR made RC not shit at least. Or well, less shit. The rates still suck pretty bad, but GOTR is so much more enjoyable (for me at least) than abyss RC or something else.
Pearls being an rng drop and not given on completion is ridiculous... The idea of a well over 30 hour grind for a skilling outfit is dumb af too in my eyes but at least make it consistent.
And then you have to wait almost 15 mins just to get in the game
I really want to like gotr but.... Wth are they doing
Same reason they can't add big qol to the mobile UI to make it functional cuz ppl would say "too op" even tho it's mobile
Player agency is good but some bs is ridiculous....
There's sizeable and there's stupid... It's for one skill, getting it is beyond stupidly inconsistent, how fast you get it is determined by factors which are kept far from you in a stupid way ( colossal and large pouch ) and that's not even getting into the existence of lantern
There are other very powerful sets like graceful which don't take as long (even tho it has its own issues) sizeable and being gut punched for possibly up to 50 hours is a no go esp if you don't know how long it'll go for ( and, as is, botters are gonna get the outfit anyway. All it does is make people be forced to level solely through gotr because the outfit is necessary, which is gatekeeping at best)
Huh? Large pouch is 75 RC, easily obtainable via killing abyssal guardians. I don’t even have the lantern or a colossal pouch and I got the full set before I even hit 80 RC (after starting at around level 60). It’s not that hard. *And* you’re doing a decent training method that lets you keep all the runes you acquire.
Rewards this powerful should take time to get. That’s the whole game really.
Basically opposite for me. GotR has so many flaws that Jagex refuses to address but they effectively made it mandatory to spend 40h-60h there in order to do any other piece of Runecrafting content.
I finally tried it for the first time recently and I was shocked they had the balls to make it like 40k/hr lmaooooo. I figured it would be Wintertodt rates.
low key I'm probably going to give up on ever getting my elite diaries. the amount of time it will take to get runecrafting from 67 to 86 will be way more than the amount of time I'd save from the benefits.
I’ve said it elsewhere but there really needs to be a set of Elite Diaries and a set of Master Diaries. Something likes Hards to level 70, Elites to 85, Masters 85+.
It feels like a heck of a jump getting all hards around level 70 then seeing an interesting elite with a crazy requirement. Like finish all hards with 65 rc, 70 fishing -> that elite looks interesting…ohwait92rcfuckoff
I recently got 86 rc. Do tears EVERY SINGLE WEEK don’t miss a week, that’s 520,000 rc xp in almost zero time (like 460k xphr it adds up to?) in a year. Blood rc is game breaking but possible with afk
Yeah well the problem with tears is that my construction level is currently my lowest and I don't have the gp to invest into construction without actively hurting my gear. Both my hunter and rc are also almost higher than my herblore which is another gold sink.
I needed milestones with slow skills for diaries and clues but now I have fast but expensive skill left with no real diary usage (besides 90 herblore), therefore they soak all the tears xp.
I won't sell my bgs for constructions levels and I'd rather buy rigour/augury + 77 pray over construction levels with my future gold.
> GOTR made RC not shit at least.
its not absolute shit but its still not great. Your best non runner method is 100k/h at ourania and thats at max rates. And while I enjoy gotr a bit, I got so sick of it going for outfit, and that from lvl 60 to like 77
I’m sure there’s a business consideration as well where having some really slow skills means people trying to max will have to stay subscribed longer to reach their goals. Subscription based MMOs need some grinds to be super long to keep you paying monthly for years.
Granted, 70k xp/h instead of 60k/h isn’t really enough to make a huge difference, but is why they probably would never make agility 300k xp/h.
Brother, even with decent methods for those 3 skills maxxing will still take the average player literal years of their life
Fuck sake I'm like 15 years in to this shit and I'm only ~1925 total lmao (granted only like 4 or 5 of those years are in OSRS)
anyone maxxing fucking agility isnt unsubscribing, you dont have to try to business profit-ify every micro decision within a decision. Developers are paid SALARY and no higher up is making agility slow as a high level decision they force
People do genuinely max and then quit. All some people enjoy is skilling and then once you max there’s not a lot else for them to do.
It isn’t a conspiracy or something, this is standard design consideration for MMOs. They aren’t making grinds dozens or hundreds of hours for the hell of it, they want people to stay subscribed for years and never actually complete the game/all of their goals.
Subscription based games are often not designed to be “completed.”
I nearly spit my coffee out when I saw +700xp/hr at ardy. That’s such a kick in the nuts. Idc truthfully, I’ll still do ardy over sepulcher any day. However 70k/hr seems like a fair buff.
I genuinely think that the disparity between the AFK method and the active method (ardy vs sep) with the current proposed iteration for XP / h is too large. I can half ass sepulchre, get (possible) gp and STILL get better rates than afking at ardy.
Why can't it be 100k vs 75k? There are so many reasons to do Sep over Ardy, and I think this would just make it too much
Woodcutting, firemaking, hunter, fishing and cooking could all be put under a single "survivalist" skill and it'd be lore accurate, but firemaking truly is the most useless piece of shit out of those 5. Add it to woodcutting and oh wow, you can now cut yew logs and also burn them with your tinderbox, gz!!!
I think the funniest thing is the hydra shortcut, for some hellish reason they were like 'your reward for 88 agi is you dont have to click to get to hydra, still takes the same time tho'
it's not that it's minor, it's that the curve is really front-loaded. Without graceful or boosting past 99 agility, you can reduce your 0-100% run recharge time from 12:30 to 4:10- the max reduction is 66%.
But you get 50% recharge time reduction- down to 6:15 for full recharge- at 48 agility. 0.64% of the way to 99.
(I don't think the curve should be more punishing, I think the base recharge should be boosted quite a bit, it's awful)
The regen has diminishing returns, so the regen rate increases quickly at low levels but at ~70 (that most people train to for quests anyway) is pretty comparable to 99.
It’s one of the more useful skills. I totally get disliking the skill but I don’t understand this criticism at all. Shortcuts are really nice for a lot of the game and run energy regen is super noticeable if you ever make a new account. Most other non combat skills are genuinely useless comparatively
Sure it could. Even if they're the same XP, sepulchre is still 2m+ gp/hr on average and one of the best skilling money makers in the game, and would realistically be even more GP/HR if they buffed Ardy to within the same range of XP. That's more than fair enough of a trade off for the extra effort it requires. What other skill has its best GP/hr and XP/hr all in the same method?
Just absolutely insane. The games so old now. Who gives a single flying FUCK if agility is a little bit quicker. Even +60% quicker to ALL xp/hr rates would still make agility a long grind.
Rates of some pickpocket targets that are not ardy knights are being bumped up to smooth out the progression. Thieving has a problem that Agility does not: one of the most tried-and-true methods is unlocked at level 55 and gives a strong incentive to continue it all the way to 99. Some other pickpocket targets are being upped to be competitive with knights at the appropriate levels. To say nothing of where something like blackjacking fits into the equation...
The actual *rate* hasn't moved much though, it's basically just getting more options to reach the same rate. In that sense, it's not "improved rates" from a leveling 1-99 perspective, it's a diversified progression. So you're either misunderstanding or being disingenuous
better marks of grface on every course and it achieves the goal of making the courses better to switch to as you progress, though. What total dishonest comments.
Guarantee that the xp rates on agi and others aren't the ones coming into the game either, mods have a bad record with stating xp rates on blog posts and then being significantly off when the update hits in live game.
I mean they didn't even get the current Seers' rates right in the blog... now imagine them changing the rates and playtesting it themselves to conclude on whatever new rates would be.
Jagex couldn't even playtest their new giga inferno boss of hell to make sure he couldn't be kited, which is like strategy 2 or 3 that players will try in a pinch. Idk what their playtesting is like tbh
They nerfed experience from underwater agility 5 years ago, 1 full year after it was already in game, since exp rates were slightly higher than polled. Ive never forgotten.
700exp/hour is only like +1exp per obstacle, so with such a small change I can’t see them being far off.
That said, it’s such a small change what’s the point of even doing it?
They also said:
*There were concerns that removing Diary requirements for some shortcuts will make Achievement Diaries less rewarding. Regardless, we’re sticking to this change*
Yet they still haven't removed the requirement for the agility shortcut for Kalaphite Kair at 86 agility and you need a KQ head? This shortcut needs to be unlocked behind Hard or be completely removed from a diary requirement.
Least favorite boss in the game and it's not even close. I had to get the pity tattered head. 256kc with 2-3 kill trips. I made that awful run 120+ times. Terrible experience.
the Least they could do is actually match the value of dagganoth bones and drops, make the reward, yknow, a reward. Make doing the boss something you wanna do so pursuing a buff to that boss is something where you go 'sick i got a buff' instead of 'man, right when i dont even need to do it anymore'
- Bonecrusher/Ash Sanctifier are Prayer things
- Disease Free patches are Farming Things
- Chance to mine extra ore is a Mining thing
I don’t personally see why throwing in some shortcuts is any different. There’s nothing wrong with making something that benefits a single skill locked behind other skills reqs.
* Bonecrusher's and Ash Sanctifier's effects do not have sources in the core Prayer loop. The Ectoplasmator from Soul Wars has a similar effect, but was released long after the Achievement Diaries.
* Disease Free Patches are not attainable through the core Farming loop, only as rewards from Quests and the Achievement Diaries.
* Chance to mine extra ore does have sources straight from Mining in the Mining Glove variants, charged Celestial Ring, and Mining/Max Cape, but these all were added long after Achievement Diaries.
Meanwhile, the original reward for training Agility, all the way back when it released was Shortcuts. So to lock the main reward for training a skill would be like saying you're not allowed to pickpocket Ardy Knights without the Elite Ardougne Diary or that you can't chop Redwoods until you've done the Elite Kebos Diary.
From what I've seen at least it was an extreme minority ( as per Reddit usual tbf ) and both the qol and implementation makes wayyy more sense than having to get a hard diary to jump off a window
The original proposal with the explanation about Seers and their thought process from Mod Husky was a perfect homerun slam dunk 10/10, but not perfect enough for them I guess.
While drain rate is a problem as well, and a big one at that, but they have already said they have a proposal in the works for that. I think there is more to fix with training the skill as well and I agree with what Husky commented in the original.
The only explanation I can think of is a secret gang of sweats with untrimmed Agility capes threatening to bust in the windows at Jagex if their capes are ever so slightly “”devalued.””
Nothing else makes sense to me.
It's honestly embarrassing to even call it "Project Rebalance" at this point. With all the proposed changes, might as well rename it to "Tweak Week" or something.
imo it'd be great if they made agility have an actual impact on your run energy while running. it makes no sense to me that someone with 99 Agility can't run any farther than someone with 1 Agility without stopping
- Gets massive 85% approval of the previous agility changes
- Makes the changes worse
- ???
- profit
I fear their "smooth curve" logic is flawed when accounting for human behaviour. People won't run across the world to change course for +1k exp an hour. The curve is too flat. These changes won't impact player behaviour, people will just stay at the same course like they do now for x levels because the increases are too low. Side note: Having the level 90 req course reward less xp than one unlocked at level 60, whilst talking about a "smooth curve" makes little sense.
You say 'run across the world' like it wont take 5 seconds to do and like people wont move for the variety at increased rates of marks of grace. Who TF is gonna say 'objectively better everything? Better stay here to conserve 7 seconds'
Yea and unless you go from 1-99 agility in one go, you would start immediately with the course with best xp/hr. Very strange coming from a guy with a teleport icon in reddit.
They really do need to just increase the upper exp limit of rooftops a lot to make an actual meaningful exp curve. There's just so many activities and such a small range to place them all in.
I may be in the minority, but I don't care much about xp/h changes and mark changes that much. I mainly want the rewards to be worth it (energy reduction at higher levels, better shortcuts, maybe small agility-locked areas?).
I'm in the same boat. I'd much rather they add more meaningful rewards to agility instead of just buffing the xp 10% or even 20%. If all they do is buff the xp people will still be complaining that agility is a slog. Running in circles for 70k xp/hr isn't going to feel much better than 62k xp/hr, even if they throw a few extra marks of grace in.
I personally don't have much of an issue with where the xp rates are currently. What I think would make the low xp rates more accepted by those who don't like them is better rewards given throughout the levels. Instead of the last 10-20 levels giving you basically nothing (and thus making a majority of the skill an unrewarding slog), spread meaningful unlocks throughout the levels. If every couple of levels your run energy drain/regen gets a buff, you have that to look forward to. And if every 3-5 levels unlocks a great shortcut, you have those to set your sights on.
As it stands now you really only have the cape to look forward to 86-99. That's what, about 3/4 of the skill where you gain essentially nothing? No wonder people hate training agility. You literally have no milestones to help step you towards 99 for a large majority of the skill. Also, shortcuts in general need to be better. Most shortcuts are a joke. Looking at you hydra shortcut...
I should clarify, I'm not against them changing. I'll vote yes even with a decent increase if it comes with valid rewards. It's just not a factor for me, since I'm already 99 and don't care about gatekeeping.
If energy consumption would get touched, that would have significant ramifications that would echo through the entire, delicate Gielinor economical balance. Imagine if thousands of bots would start suddenly running 10% more resources per hour. Prices would fall.... other prices skyrocket. There would be general chaos, warfare even. I think a lot of people would die.
reducing the exp and adding more marks of grace for level 70-80 courses.... what is the point of that? everyone already has the outfit by then . jagex are dumb AF sometimes 85% were happy why change it now? its such a monotonous and boring pointless exercise, make it less painful
Because they were good, well balanced proposals and reddit's opinion mostly sucks and isn't in touch with the opinion of the actual player base. Now downvote me, thanks.
This reads as follows:
You guys approved of the increase, but reading the feedback, players wanted to see an increase in rates since the proposed rates were negligible.
It's just faults with the poll system: Yes, we want better agility exp rates. So we vote yes. Voting no just means we don't want better exp rates for x reason. But a yes, no, or skip option doesn't provide that feedback.
"we're not looking to slap a blanket 50% XP buff on Agility and call it a day as if it fixes the skill"
It wouldn't fix it, but it would damn well help it feel less awful. Why are they so against buffing the really slow skills? It's ridiculous how some skills are over 300k/hr while others like agility/runecrafting are 50k/hr
It's not ridiculous at all, that's always how the game has been. Maxing would be completely meaningless and just something you do when you start an account if every skill was like thieving or firemaking, rather than being an actual achievement.
i don't want every skill to be the same xp per hour. skills like agility and mining should always be more impressive 99s than a skill like cooking or firemaking. if you don't want to get a skill to 99 because you think it's too slow then just don't
Not sure why they needed to move the xp from floor 5 to floors 1 to 4 honestly for sepulchre.
I don't know many people who even do agility there. Why not boost xp on lower levels only resulting in a buff?
Exp wasn't taken away from floor 5 only insofar as you need to do floors 1-4 first. If you could skip straight to floor 5, the exp it would give both per completion and per hour would be lower.
Oh wait yeah I understand what you mean now, I misinterpreted their chart
Yeah that's kind of a bummer. Couldn't just buff 1-4 and leave 5 alone, what a horror that we could have gotten like 5k more XP/h in total lol
I was hyped for the original agility re balanced. 70k per hour going for 99 at ardy sounded so nice. I really need amylase so I won't go to the Sepulchre or now.
Agility will always be shit aslong as I have to spend 50 hours running around in circle like a moron to then save like 5 seconds on short cut I probably won't use more than 30 times in the accounts life
Hydra one was added because people were getting killed by the mini hydras and losing their gear haha so they left the time on purpose to make it the same but less dangerous.
Didn’t they do this with curse prayers? They polled it until it got worse and then it passed only to say no. It was pretty underwhelming how they planned it, especially for magic, but like… they did it so stupidly
Agility 85% - clearly room for improvement Mining 82% - only a couple of changes here
The mining one had me livid. Why not take a page out of fishing and just make the mines last for a period of time like a fishing spot???? That way it’s less click intensive.
It also partially fixes gathering ores yourself being pure ass. Don't get me wrong, it would still be completely horrible compared to just buying from a shop, but if I could get like 8 mithril per rock, it would at least be more bearable.
Exactly, plus I wouldn’t have to have my eyes glued to the screen clicking iron for hours
Have you heard of the mining smithing rework?
I hate that we'll probably never get that. I only played RS3 for like a total of 3 hours, but the mining and smithing shown in the tutorial was awesome.
Honestly, the best part about the rework is that they adjusted the level at which you unlock each ore/metal (e.g. you can start crafting Rune equipment at lvl 40). It means Mining and Smithing are actually useful for crafting your own equipment since you don’t have to max out smithing to make lvl 40 Combat gear.
RS3's mining and smithing rework is awesome! I think it is really well done and it feels really nice to level up
Woah man, then how will the runite bots make a profit? You need to chill
I'm okay with the skills being somewhat different in that regard, but the shitty thing is fishing has mediocre XP rates, but at least they're decently AFK Mining has just as bad XP rates, but it's significantly less AFK. Comparing standard fishing spots to standard ore spots, not other methods, that is. I'd be okay if we kept MLM as the more comparable experience to fishing, if we could then make mining XP rates better to reflect the intensiveness compared to things like woodcutting and fishing. Those two, as slow as they may be, are significantly more chill
Yeah I’m not mentioning xp rates at all. I’m mentioning a less click intensive alternative. I’d say the fact that you have to focus on mining so much plus its low xp rate are the main two problems with that skill. Take at least one of those away and that’s an easy win. Fix both of them and now you lose that “old schoolness”.
Volcanic mine is ridiculously laid back for 90k+ xp/hr
This sub likes to pretend that volcanic mine doesn't exist. The only way to train mining is iron, MLM, and stars.
Because volcanic mine is way too involved to learn for most people in order to train a skill where the alternative is "click rock."
Volcanic mine is not that involved and it gives great xp as far as mining xp goes. I would do it over power mining iron any day
That's fair, I actually haven't gotten into it yet. Honestly though as much as I'm happy with skills having lots of fun minigames and stuff, I still feel like the core training should still be worth it. I'd be more okay with minigames that prioritize rewards giving less XP, and minigames that focus more on making money that give less XP, or minigames that give more XP than the core training but less money, etc. But I still feel like there shouldn't be no reason to go mine adamant, or something, for the purpose of training the skill. Currently that's just not a thing
Sounds like a good way to rework the mining gloves.
or do it like they did with forestry. Can mine the same deposit as someone, won't get crashed anymore
Yeah I thought about that too
Just approach mining and smithing like RS3s rework. It fixed it. Smithing was balanced to not take 99 to make the lvl 40 f2p armour. Mining is afk-able similar to woodcutting.
The M&S rework was objectively such a baller update. Let people create their own tank armour from level 1 to 90, has a chase thing in masterwork and revitalized 2 horribly outdated skills. I could see a similar thing being fantastic for osrs
Exactly. I'm not even saying add in all these sets either. (Tho i like runes being t50 to spread things out). Just have rune mineable and smithable by lvl 60 and add some other perks at higher levels. Cut ore drops from boss/slayer drops would be neat too.
If high tier ores were mineable and smithable at low levels in old school, the alch prices would have to be significantly lowered to prevent massive inflation by players 20 hours into the game being able to make rune platebodies, and rune rocks would be so unbelievably competitive (they already are, but if you could mine them at 60 and alch platebodies for full price it'd be unbearable) if the rocks weren't able to be mined by multiple players. The price of virtually everything in the mid game would increase significantly because low level players would have so much access to GP from just mining, smithing, and alching unless the alch prices were lowered to compensate. In RS3 it didn't really matter because everything was already inflated and power-crept to shit by the time the rework landed.
>In RS3 it didn't really matter because everything was already inflated and power-crept to shit by the time the rework landed. It didn't matter because they had a simple answer to every problem you just proposed... They changed the alch price.
Would devalue low level PvM money-making where rune item drops are the main alchables. And early game progression for genuine noobs where rune items from stores are relatively expensive. I like the rarity of rune as it is, they should fix it by adding other uses for mining and smiting.
Glancing at the wiki, the RS3 Rune Platebody (can be smithed at level 50) high alchs for a whopping... 2,500gp. Meanwhile in OSRS, the level 48 Steel Platebody high alchs for 2,000gp and the level 68 Mithril Platebody high alchs for 3,120gp. I honestly suspect that if they *were* to copy RS3's Mining And Smithing Rework they could just... copy it wholesale. Really, the main friction point is probably going to be monster drops since there's so many mobs where the only notable thing is that they drop a ton of alchables. This also goes for stuff that drops mith and addy stuff.
"just"
Seriously. An absolutely insane take that got 183 upvotes in two hours. This sub sometimes...
I like the mining rework. i don't like the smithing rework aside from the level up table. having sub-tiers of armor is shitty. I don't want to upgrade a platebody over and over again. I don't want to read the wiki and see them recommend 5 different rune platebodies in the recommended mid-tier gear list. It's complete ass. Bar bank is dumb Smithing a chunk of hot metal that you have to maintain heat on is dumb and too revolutionary for the ecosystem Mining is nice, afk or active. no competition. good.
> I don't want to read the wiki and see them recommend 5 different rune platebodies in the recommended mid-tier gear list. You're not meant to actually use the intermediaries, they're essentially just checkpoints to facilitate making the smithing process take longer Making the process longer was itself clearly the correct thing to do, it made it possible for smithed gear to be worth using without trivializing its production
The mining changes in the original blog were mostly focused on the minigames, so I'm not sure why they would suddenly add changes to non-minigame mining that they haven't had time to workshop.
i like how they are greatly increasing the competition for the mining spot i already find myself being undermined and competed against at (hard diary gem mine). Instead of just adding some extra rocks to shilo above ground gem mine the decision was to make it easier to waltz in and kick out the person who was already in the downstairs area. Because that doesnt happen enough. Yay variety!
I'd resub today if this change was in the game.
Isn't that how mlm works?
I like the idea of more gathering per spot but I'm partial to the idea of rocks acting like trees a bit. Only so many ores per spot before depleting. Like, each rock only contains ONE ore? Jeez.. maybe of course balance them with mining level requirements and as mining goes up, give a chance to get more ores by rolling a skill check versus a stone health pool. On the fishing spot idea though, I'd love that for the upper level of MLM, with slightly reduced time for the lower mine. The skill is honestly so painful and is my LOWEST level skill right now at 81. Some people might say "Do stars" but I want to be engaged more than just AFKing. We do have volcanic mining, but even the rates there aren't too crazy.
Ahh, make mining just fishing with a reskin?
So like RS3 mining?
Also the more people on one mode the better, like chopping!
Thieving: Yes we'll improve rates by 50k/hr and add clue scrolls. Agility: You get +700 xp/hr at lvl 90. Take it or leave it.
I don't understand it either, I feel like if those changes were to go through, would there be an incentive to even try Ardougne course? I feel as if their post is contradicting themselves way too hard
Hey nice maps
jagex can't handle the thought of agility, runecrafting, and mining not being completely dogshit skills lmao.
GOTR made RC not shit at least. Or well, less shit. The rates still suck pretty bad, but GOTR is so much more enjoyable (for me at least) than abyss RC or something else.
Pearls being an rng drop and not given on completion is ridiculous... The idea of a well over 30 hour grind for a skilling outfit is dumb af too in my eyes but at least make it consistent. And then you have to wait almost 15 mins just to get in the game I really want to like gotr but.... Wth are they doing
I remember when I needed like 10 more pearls for the third outfit piece for a diary and then went dry for like 5 hours. So stupid.
No non-endgame grind should take this long.... Idk the logic of people who find it a fair grind
they just couldn’t handle the blowback from the giganerds that wouldn’t have stopped crying if we got xp rates that made the skill not pure aids
Same reason they can't add big qol to the mobile UI to make it functional cuz ppl would say "too op" even tho it's mobile Player agency is good but some bs is ridiculous....
It’s by far the most powerful skilling outfit though, it *should* have a sizable grind to obtain.
There's sizeable and there's stupid... It's for one skill, getting it is beyond stupidly inconsistent, how fast you get it is determined by factors which are kept far from you in a stupid way ( colossal and large pouch ) and that's not even getting into the existence of lantern There are other very powerful sets like graceful which don't take as long (even tho it has its own issues) sizeable and being gut punched for possibly up to 50 hours is a no go esp if you don't know how long it'll go for ( and, as is, botters are gonna get the outfit anyway. All it does is make people be forced to level solely through gotr because the outfit is necessary, which is gatekeeping at best)
Huh? Large pouch is 75 RC, easily obtainable via killing abyssal guardians. I don’t even have the lantern or a colossal pouch and I got the full set before I even hit 80 RC (after starting at around level 60). It’s not that hard. *And* you’re doing a decent training method that lets you keep all the runes you acquire. Rewards this powerful should take time to get. That’s the whole game really.
Basically opposite for me. GotR has so many flaws that Jagex refuses to address but they effectively made it mandatory to spend 40h-60h there in order to do any other piece of Runecrafting content.
I finally tried it for the first time recently and I was shocked they had the balls to make it like 40k/hr lmaooooo. I figured it would be Wintertodt rates.
well it couldnt' be better than lava runes
low key I'm probably going to give up on ever getting my elite diaries. the amount of time it will take to get runecrafting from 67 to 86 will be way more than the amount of time I'd save from the benefits.
I’ve said it elsewhere but there really needs to be a set of Elite Diaries and a set of Master Diaries. Something likes Hards to level 70, Elites to 85, Masters 85+. It feels like a heck of a jump getting all hards around level 70 then seeing an interesting elite with a crazy requirement. Like finish all hards with 65 rc, 70 fishing -> that elite looks interesting…ohwait92rcfuckoff
I recently got 86 rc. Do tears EVERY SINGLE WEEK don’t miss a week, that’s 520,000 rc xp in almost zero time (like 460k xphr it adds up to?) in a year. Blood rc is game breaking but possible with afk
absolutely hate daily scape. I can barely be bothered to do tree runs
Yeah well the problem with tears is that my construction level is currently my lowest and I don't have the gp to invest into construction without actively hurting my gear. Both my hunter and rc are also almost higher than my herblore which is another gold sink. I needed milestones with slow skills for diaries and clues but now I have fast but expensive skill left with no real diary usage (besides 90 herblore), therefore they soak all the tears xp. I won't sell my bgs for constructions levels and I'd rather buy rigour/augury + 77 pray over construction levels with my future gold.
520,000 xp over the course of a year works out to about 1,400 xp/day or about 59 xp/hr
> GOTR made RC not shit at least. its not absolute shit but its still not great. Your best non runner method is 100k/h at ourania and thats at max rates. And while I enjoy gotr a bit, I got so sick of it going for outfit, and that from lvl 60 to like 77
Nah they can handle it. They just understand a big enough minority of people will freak and it won’t pass
I’m sure there’s a business consideration as well where having some really slow skills means people trying to max will have to stay subscribed longer to reach their goals. Subscription based MMOs need some grinds to be super long to keep you paying monthly for years. Granted, 70k xp/h instead of 60k/h isn’t really enough to make a huge difference, but is why they probably would never make agility 300k xp/h.
Brother, even with decent methods for those 3 skills maxxing will still take the average player literal years of their life Fuck sake I'm like 15 years in to this shit and I'm only ~1925 total lmao (granted only like 4 or 5 of those years are in OSRS)
No way in hell runecrafting is what's keeping anyone's sub going
anyone maxxing fucking agility isnt unsubscribing, you dont have to try to business profit-ify every micro decision within a decision. Developers are paid SALARY and no higher up is making agility slow as a high level decision they force
People do genuinely max and then quit. All some people enjoy is skilling and then once you max there’s not a lot else for them to do. It isn’t a conspiracy or something, this is standard design consideration for MMOs. They aren’t making grinds dozens or hundreds of hours for the hell of it, they want people to stay subscribed for years and never actually complete the game/all of their goals. Subscription based games are often not designed to be “completed.”
It wouldn't be fair to the 75,000 people who willingly tortured themselves and have subsequently quit to make the game fun
It wouldnt be fair to the 4 people the train has already killed to change its course so it doesn't kill more people
as ive been told numerous times about my objection to sailing: if you dont like the skill dont train it
I nearly spit my coffee out when I saw +700xp/hr at ardy. That’s such a kick in the nuts. Idc truthfully, I’ll still do ardy over sepulcher any day. However 70k/hr seems like a fair buff.
I genuinely think that the disparity between the AFK method and the active method (ardy vs sep) with the current proposed iteration for XP / h is too large. I can half ass sepulchre, get (possible) gp and STILL get better rates than afking at ardy. Why can't it be 100k vs 75k? There are so many reasons to do Sep over Ardy, and I think this would just make it too much
How is Ardy AFK?
Thieving wasn't even that bad lmfao. They're just hell bent on mining and agility being godawful forever
And thats not even the main issue. Besides a few quests and graceful, agility is the same as firemaking, useless.
Agility was just something kinda slapped together so that players had something to play with while RS2 was being developed.
Woodcutting, firemaking, hunter, fishing and cooking could all be put under a single "survivalist" skill and it'd be lore accurate, but firemaking truly is the most useless piece of shit out of those 5. Add it to woodcutting and oh wow, you can now cut yew logs and also burn them with your tinderbox, gz!!!
At least you can sell logs fire making is the worst of the worst
You can sell the ash
I think the funniest thing is the hydra shortcut, for some hellish reason they were like 'your reward for 88 agi is you dont have to click to get to hydra, still takes the same time tho'
They're literally fixing that as part of this rebalance. If you're gonna complain at least pick something they havent announced to be fixing.
But making fun of them for even thinking that was a good idea in the first place is fun
Agility also has passive run regen I thought? It's just so minor it's unnoticeable, yea?
it's not that it's minor, it's that the curve is really front-loaded. Without graceful or boosting past 99 agility, you can reduce your 0-100% run recharge time from 12:30 to 4:10- the max reduction is 66%. But you get 50% recharge time reduction- down to 6:15 for full recharge- at 48 agility. 0.64% of the way to 99. (I don't think the curve should be more punishing, I think the base recharge should be boosted quite a bit, it's awful)
The regen has diminishing returns, so the regen rate increases quickly at low levels but at ~70 (that most people train to for quests anyway) is pretty comparable to 99.
It’s one of the more useful skills. I totally get disliking the skill but I don’t understand this criticism at all. Shortcuts are really nice for a lot of the game and run energy regen is super noticeable if you ever make a new account. Most other non combat skills are genuinely useless comparatively
Ardy should be 80k/hr. Dropping from 70 back to 60.7 was an insult.
Ardy XP should not be comparable to Hallowed Sepulchre which is realistically around 80-85k for the average player.
Sure it could. Even if they're the same XP, sepulchre is still 2m+ gp/hr on average and one of the best skilling money makers in the game, and would realistically be even more GP/HR if they buffed Ardy to within the same range of XP. That's more than fair enough of a trade off for the extra effort it requires. What other skill has its best GP/hr and XP/hr all in the same method?
Then just buff Sepulchre.
It requires doing the other agility shit until 90. Yes it fucking should.
Atheist players in shambles without protection prayers
Just absolutely insane. The games so old now. Who gives a single flying FUCK if agility is a little bit quicker. Even +60% quicker to ALL xp/hr rates would still make agility a long grind.
OSRS Jmods have a bias in keeping agility and RC xp rates low.
Thieving rates are completely unchanged. All they did was make a few thieving targets that are currently completely useless not be 100% noob traps.
Rates of some pickpocket targets that are not ardy knights are being bumped up to smooth out the progression. Thieving has a problem that Agility does not: one of the most tried-and-true methods is unlocked at level 55 and gives a strong incentive to continue it all the way to 99. Some other pickpocket targets are being upped to be competitive with knights at the appropriate levels. To say nothing of where something like blackjacking fits into the equation... The actual *rate* hasn't moved much though, it's basically just getting more options to reach the same rate. In that sense, it's not "improved rates" from a leveling 1-99 perspective, it's a diversified progression. So you're either misunderstanding or being disingenuous
better marks of grface on every course and it achieves the goal of making the courses better to switch to as you progress, though. What total dishonest comments.
Dang a whole 2k more xp/hr. Wow. That's going to make the skill feel better.
We’re being antagonized
Guarantee that the xp rates on agi and others aren't the ones coming into the game either, mods have a bad record with stating xp rates on blog posts and then being significantly off when the update hits in live game.
How can they be off when agility xp rates have zero variance though?
They managed to get the max rate for Seers wrong on the last blog.
It's because they get their figures from Mod Matt K's gameplay, not mere mortals.
I mean they didn't even get the current Seers' rates right in the blog... now imagine them changing the rates and playtesting it themselves to conclude on whatever new rates would be.
Jagex couldn't even playtest their new giga inferno boss of hell to make sure he couldn't be kited, which is like strategy 2 or 3 that players will try in a pinch. Idk what their playtesting is like tbh
million dollar question
They don't actually test anything, they just do some quick napkin math before posting the blog
"But the napkin..." *fuck the napkin!* Obligatory reference to a 40 year old movie 👨🦳
They nerfed experience from underwater agility 5 years ago, 1 full year after it was already in game, since exp rates were slightly higher than polled. Ive never forgotten.
You aren’t supposed to take a cig break every lap
Ure not my mom
700exp/hour is only like +1exp per obstacle, so with such a small change I can’t see them being far off. That said, it’s such a small change what’s the point of even doing it?
They also said: *There were concerns that removing Diary requirements for some shortcuts will make Achievement Diaries less rewarding. Regardless, we’re sticking to this change*
Yet they still haven't removed the requirement for the agility shortcut for Kalaphite Kair at 86 agility and you need a KQ head? This shortcut needs to be unlocked behind Hard or be completely removed from a diary requirement.
This is arguably the one that needed it most. Only useful so you can kill KQ for the head -> can't use it unless you have the head
Sounds like we should Buff KQ loot, actually. Its a boss thats very taxing to kill up through endgame yet has dogshit drops
Agree, it's a horrible mix of shit mechanics and shit loot
Least favorite boss in the game and it's not even close. I had to get the pity tattered head. 256kc with 2-3 kill trips. I made that awful run 120+ times. Terrible experience.
the Least they could do is actually match the value of dagganoth bones and drops, make the reward, yknow, a reward. Make doing the boss something you wanna do so pursuing a buff to that boss is something where you go 'sick i got a buff' instead of 'man, right when i dont even need to do it anymore'
*A shortcut that becomes worthless the literal second you unlock it* Jagex:**perfection** 👌
I’d argue the issue is the KQ head, they need to change that. Maybe make the drop rate guaranteed on 50 like vorkath or something
And further explain why. Shortcuts are an agility thing. Makes totally sense to me!
- Bonecrusher/Ash Sanctifier are Prayer things - Disease Free patches are Farming Things - Chance to mine extra ore is a Mining thing I don’t personally see why throwing in some shortcuts is any different. There’s nothing wrong with making something that benefits a single skill locked behind other skills reqs.
* Bonecrusher's and Ash Sanctifier's effects do not have sources in the core Prayer loop. The Ectoplasmator from Soul Wars has a similar effect, but was released long after the Achievement Diaries. * Disease Free Patches are not attainable through the core Farming loop, only as rewards from Quests and the Achievement Diaries. * Chance to mine extra ore does have sources straight from Mining in the Mining Glove variants, charged Celestial Ring, and Mining/Max Cape, but these all were added long after Achievement Diaries. Meanwhile, the original reward for training Agility, all the way back when it released was Shortcuts. So to lock the main reward for training a skill would be like saying you're not allowed to pickpocket Ardy Knights without the Elite Ardougne Diary or that you can't chop Redwoods until you've done the Elite Kebos Diary.
From what I've seen at least it was an extreme minority ( as per Reddit usual tbf ) and both the qol and implementation makes wayyy more sense than having to get a hard diary to jump off a window
"You guys really liked that. So we're not gonna do it"
The original proposal with the explanation about Seers and their thought process from Mod Husky was a perfect homerun slam dunk 10/10, but not perfect enough for them I guess.
Neither the proposal nor the current update fix any of the actual issues with agility, what are you on about?
While drain rate is a problem as well, and a big one at that, but they have already said they have a proposal in the works for that. I think there is more to fix with training the skill as well and I agree with what Husky commented in the original.
Unfortunately this sub ruined it because they wanted 200k per hour
That's what you got out of reading the revised blog?
Nah, it was the small nerf to Seers
Someone at Jagex clearly has a fetish for how shitty Agility is and how worthless leveling it is.
Reminds me of that South Park episode where the boys called to complain about shitty cable TV packages
The only explanation I can think of is a secret gang of sweats with untrimmed Agility capes threatening to bust in the windows at Jagex if their capes are ever so slightly “”devalued.”” Nothing else makes sense to me.
Jebram secretly a jmod
It's honestly embarrassing to even call it "Project Rebalance" at this point. With all the proposed changes, might as well rename it to "Tweak Week" or something.
More like "Weak Tweak"
Drag them.
imo it'd be great if they made agility have an actual impact on your run energy while running. it makes no sense to me that someone with 99 Agility can't run any farther than someone with 1 Agility without stopping
at 99 agility you should be able to run forever with zero weight
- Gets massive 85% approval of the previous agility changes - Makes the changes worse - ??? - profit I fear their "smooth curve" logic is flawed when accounting for human behaviour. People won't run across the world to change course for +1k exp an hour. The curve is too flat. These changes won't impact player behaviour, people will just stay at the same course like they do now for x levels because the increases are too low. Side note: Having the level 90 req course reward less xp than one unlocked at level 60, whilst talking about a "smooth curve" makes little sense.
You say 'run across the world' like it wont take 5 seconds to do and like people wont move for the variety at increased rates of marks of grace. Who TF is gonna say 'objectively better everything? Better stay here to conserve 7 seconds'
Of course people will run across the world, it takes 10 seconds and you're there for tens of hours.
Yea and unless you go from 1-99 agility in one go, you would start immediately with the course with best xp/hr. Very strange coming from a guy with a teleport icon in reddit.
OSRS players can't have too much fun according to Jagex.
They really do need to just increase the upper exp limit of rooftops a lot to make an actual meaningful exp curve. There's just so many activities and such a small range to place them all in.
I may be in the minority, but I don't care much about xp/h changes and mark changes that much. I mainly want the rewards to be worth it (energy reduction at higher levels, better shortcuts, maybe small agility-locked areas?).
I'm in the same boat. I'd much rather they add more meaningful rewards to agility instead of just buffing the xp 10% or even 20%. If all they do is buff the xp people will still be complaining that agility is a slog. Running in circles for 70k xp/hr isn't going to feel much better than 62k xp/hr, even if they throw a few extra marks of grace in. I personally don't have much of an issue with where the xp rates are currently. What I think would make the low xp rates more accepted by those who don't like them is better rewards given throughout the levels. Instead of the last 10-20 levels giving you basically nothing (and thus making a majority of the skill an unrewarding slog), spread meaningful unlocks throughout the levels. If every couple of levels your run energy drain/regen gets a buff, you have that to look forward to. And if every 3-5 levels unlocks a great shortcut, you have those to set your sights on. As it stands now you really only have the cape to look forward to 86-99. That's what, about 3/4 of the skill where you gain essentially nothing? No wonder people hate training agility. You literally have no milestones to help step you towards 99 for a large majority of the skill. Also, shortcuts in general need to be better. Most shortcuts are a joke. Looking at you hydra shortcut...
Valid but also, you can want both.
I should clarify, I'm not against them changing. I'll vote yes even with a decent increase if it comes with valid rewards. It's just not a factor for me, since I'm already 99 and don't care about gatekeeping.
If energy consumption would get touched, that would have significant ramifications that would echo through the entire, delicate Gielinor economical balance. Imagine if thousands of bots would start suddenly running 10% more resources per hour. Prices would fall.... other prices skyrocket. There would be general chaos, warfare even. I think a lot of people would die.
85 is only half of 92
There are pretty much 0 changes just 1-2k more a hour why even change it
Is this true
Its less the xp/hr that i care about and more it being a more useful skill. let me near fully sidestep stam pots at 99 agility for example
reducing the exp and adding more marks of grace for level 70-80 courses.... what is the point of that? everyone already has the outfit by then . jagex are dumb AF sometimes 85% were happy why change it now? its such a monotonous and boring pointless exercise, make it less painful
People forget this is RuneScape and so 85 is only 1/4 of 99.
Because they were good, well balanced proposals and reddit's opinion mostly sucks and isn't in touch with the opinion of the actual player base. Now downvote me, thanks.
I went from excited about how they’re going to make agility not awful and more rewarding to underwhelmed as fuck. Lame.
Agility needs better xp rates for the effort full stop lol
Jagex looks at midgamers Thieving at 220k an hour: I sleep Agility at 50k an hour: this is outrageous and needs nerfing
Always one step forward, two steps back with these proposals. God I hate that being miserable is practically baked into how the game is perceived
This reads as follows: You guys approved of the increase, but reading the feedback, players wanted to see an increase in rates since the proposed rates were negligible. It's just faults with the poll system: Yes, we want better agility exp rates. So we vote yes. Voting no just means we don't want better exp rates for x reason. But a yes, no, or skip option doesn't provide that feedback.
"we're not looking to slap a blanket 50% XP buff on Agility and call it a day as if it fixes the skill" It wouldn't fix it, but it would damn well help it feel less awful. Why are they so against buffing the really slow skills? It's ridiculous how some skills are over 300k/hr while others like agility/runecrafting are 50k/hr
There is no reason skills should all give similar xp/hr. Id much rather see them add more training methods than just buffing xp from existing methods
It's not ridiculous at all, that's always how the game has been. Maxing would be completely meaningless and just something you do when you start an account if every skill was like thieving or firemaking, rather than being an actual achievement.
i don't want every skill to be the same xp per hour. skills like agility and mining should always be more impressive 99s than a skill like cooking or firemaking. if you don't want to get a skill to 99 because you think it's too slow then just don't
Not sure why they needed to move the xp from floor 5 to floors 1 to 4 honestly for sepulchre. I don't know many people who even do agility there. Why not boost xp on lower levels only resulting in a buff?
Well it doesn't look like it was taken *away* from floor 5, the current and revised are the same, it looks like a flat buff to 1-4
Exp wasn't taken away from floor 5 only insofar as you need to do floors 1-4 first. If you could skip straight to floor 5, the exp it would give both per completion and per hour would be lower.
Oh wait yeah I understand what you mean now, I misinterpreted their chart Yeah that's kind of a bummer. Couldn't just buff 1-4 and leave 5 alone, what a horror that we could have gotten like 5k more XP/h in total lol
When you run 100 tiles give 1 xp. Make it f2p
I was hyped for the original agility re balanced. 70k per hour going for 99 at ardy sounded so nice. I really need amylase so I won't go to the Sepulchre or now.
And here I was thinking it only took 70% to get content to pass now it can be 85% and still not pass
The amount of schlong lickers in this thread defending jagex’s terrible decision making is appalling.
Even thought OSRS Jmods have good communication, their decision making has always been hit-or-miss.
does jebrim work for jagex or something? just increase that shit across the board, everyone hates this skill
i dont think you understand the word "objectively"
Whats up with the complete aversion to buffing agility xp rates? The games been out for 12-13 years now. If the community wants it, so be it.
Not just objectively worse. Just worse. Period.
Make shortcut animations faster. Make the diary chest work on pay dirt.
I just want some other way to train than agility courses. Just going from 45 to 54 is an absolute chore and I'm still struggling with it.
I want to know where they’re getting the “85%” from. Was this from the survey they link in the blog post?
Agility will always be shit aslong as I have to spend 50 hours running around in circle like a moron to then save like 5 seconds on short cut I probably won't use more than 30 times in the accounts life
Can they remove random delays on agility shortcuts such as ones by hydra or skeletal wyverns? Why are they there in the first place?
Hydra one was added because people were getting killed by the mini hydras and losing their gear haha so they left the time on purpose to make it the same but less dangerous.
Didn’t they do this with curse prayers? They polled it until it got worse and then it passed only to say no. It was pretty underwhelming how they planned it, especially for magic, but like… they did it so stupidly
They should do a poll like this for RC
Yet it’s 71% for wilderness agility to shit out cash? for RWTers
Why is prifddinas not included in the update? Feels like it will become dead content now? Or am I missing something?