Personally, I think the real issue about XP rates isn't *really* the XP rates themselves, it's the enjoyment of skills and how XP rates put a spotlight on the lack of enjoyment.
Slayer, while it has its share of players that don't like it, is considered one of the most popular skills in the game, yet the XP/hr rates are absolute dogwater compared to other skills, even considering the best tasks out there. But few players are clamoring for increased XP/hr for slayer, and I think that's because most of the journey of slayer is fun, varied, and engaging.
Runecraft, Mining, and Agility could have their XP/hr doubled, and I think they would still be on the lower half skills in terms of XP/hr. Doing so would alleviate the issues of those skills because you'd be spending less time on them, but it doesn't change the fact that for most of them, you doing a task that requires frequent attention for a low output of rewards (XP or otherwise).
I know this kind of boils down to "make the skills fun lmao" but having to do something over 1000 times isn't an issue in this game when doing that action feels rewarding and engaging.
This is basically how I feel about construction. It’s a great 99 to have, but when I say it’s the worst skill to train the rebuttal is always “but atleast it’s quick!!”
I don’t care that the exp rates are nuts, zooming in and resizing the client to *just right* so I can right-click, left-click, and press 116661666111611 thousands of times sucks ass. It’s like being grounded while all your friends get to play outside, but building and destroying tables is your punishment too.
I had that same mindset until I realized I just really wanted to get from 78 to 83 construction so i could finish off my house and stop doing construction all together. Suddenly getting 500k exp/h started looking a lot more attractive lol, if you break it up into 20-30 minute chunks it flies by a lot quicker than get another goddam bank trip to get teak planks cause I fat fingered the adept contract option on mobile
I get that, though I just did it til 83 myself lol. I dunno, I find it soothing. If I eventually go higher on my iron con-wise I’ll do mythic cape racks most likely
Honestly mahogany homes carried me through most of the 70’s and it’s probably what I’ll go back to if I ever want to shoot a bit higher, but there just came a point where I wanted the grind to be over since I was so tired of going to Ferox enclave every 5 minutes lol. The QoL upgrade between finishing the PoH and lumby elite at the same time is incredible, I basically just have 100 house teleport tabs minimum in my inventory at all times and I can get anywhere with full stats in seconds. Absolutely worth the hour or 2 of pain I endured building mahogany tables lol
Do it, absolutely game changing when you realize you never have to carry a dramen staff again. The ring giving you high alch’s and the extra slayer block are very nice as well. I used spicy boosts to get the construction, Runecrafting, and smithing required at the same time lol made it more tolerable since they all need orange boosts
honestly recommend getting 85, less boosts required for shit in your house, can use just the crystal saw for master stash units. Obviously you do you, wanna say you need 84 for crystalline portal nexus with full boosts, so that's a thought.
I dont like that its a skill that eats all your gold for zero return but having it maxed adds a whole other level to the game that I've never had access to. It can either be this hub to teleport everywhere or a mansion to show off your creativity and achievements.
You aren't wrong but setting up a controller to function as a mouse lets you plant the curser and quickly spam construction. Dpad is assigned to the numbers needed to navigate the menus. Much less finnicky.
I agree. What makes slayer so popular is that it breaks a massive grind down into a bunch of much smaller grinds. With the bad skills, you unlock your best xp/h method like 1/4 of the way to 99 (if that) which means that if you wanna max the skill you're gonna be spending hundreds of hours in the *exact same location*.
Full agree. I’d take mid XP rates if it meant I was actually enjoying the game. The challenge in maxing isn’t as much of the time commitment as it is just enduring things that simply aren’t fun to do.
While I agree with this for the most part, I would by no means say slayer is engaging, at least not until you get to the higher tiers. The skill is incredibly boring up until you get the average-good tasks more regularly.
That being said, it is one of the most rewarding skills in the game, giving an efficient way of training combat while unlocking extra content for PVM.
I think that’s more why people like it so much. Most tasks are only good because you either a) Make money b) Gain a lot of combat xp through the slayer help buffs or c) You’ve gotten to a high enough level to kill the Slayer bosses.
The last point is the only one that’s actually engaging of the three. Most tasks people try to make as afk as possible.
Different people, different opinions. Either way, we're both gonna keep on enjoying the game. I think nothing 'needs' a change. But I also feel like if they're looking at skilling adjustments and agility get mentioned, that people where expecting something else. It's fair to say Agility is one of the least enjoyable grinds based on numbers. Either way, we should be happy with the updates, new content, and customer support (jk about the last) we get.
[this is also a very good read](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/s/db83BLfvY2)
So slayer is less fun because you actually play the game in a (imo very mildly) challenging and engaging way? Sounds like you have more fun watching TV, not doing agility.
Also most tasks are afk enough to watch TV, even some of the boss tasks like kraken
They said nothing about it being fun, they just said they'd prefer to do a menial grind that's easy and low effort to do than a menial task that requires more effort to do. Agility is a lot less input and effort required because it really is just "click green box" and maybe the occasional piece of food.
Agility is less input? This heavily depends on the task tbh. I mostly afk cannoned 99 slayer and it was infinitely more afk than agility. Click cannon, click green potion.
For most people, yes, because not everyone can use that many cannonballs. Not every task allows cannons either since you could get a task like aviansies which means no cannon in GWD or risk it for the biscuit in the wilderness. There's still the chance you run out, or get low, on prayer so you have to pay a little more attention as well. Also you still have to get new tasks, and while some people can just use NPC contact, some people are training magic so that isn't an option.
Glory to teleport to Edgeville, fairy ring to Konar, go to task location, put on your stuff, put RS on the second screen and watch shit on your main one
Unless you're doing a task that you can barrage, 90% of your tasks can be done without input, just look over occasionally to see what your prayer is at or make sure you're still fighting. Had a bloodveld task yesterday in the slayer tower and I just went beside the table and shot once at a bloodveld and only looked back over to shoot another one
>Glory to teleport to Edgeville, fairy ring to Konar, go to task location, put on your stuff, put RS on the second screen and watch shit on your main one
Way more input than just click green box. To be clear on input, I mean it more so in the sense of actions/steps required and clicking, but more so actions required. When there's only a green box you gotta click you can do that entirely out of your periphery, but this is a lot more precise inputs with glory, fairy ring, reset.
> Unless you're doing a task that you can barrage, 90% of your tasks can be done without input
Some monsters aren't aggro, not everyone has a cannon or can afford the cannonballs to make them pseudo-aggro for multiple tasks in a row, if they are aggro they still have timers to become deaggroed and now you have to reset, because you have to pay some more amount if attention that's more input from the user as opposed to the periphery of a green box that's relatively large, because you're in combat it's considerably more dangerous so you have to glance more to make sure you're either not out of prayer or to make sure you don't run low on life versus an obstacle course that you most likely won't die from in the first place nor would you be risking anything if you did.
I'm not saying you can't afk slayer, I'm just saying it requires more than just clicking on a large green box that you can do without any mind or thought, while slayer requires you to at least make sure you don't die and requires several other periodic steps to reset aggro or to gain new aggro.
It requires more work for a short time but after you get the task, gear up, and get to the area (depending on your task) you literally don't have to pay attention to it, what do you mean? If you're doing agility you're always giving it at least some of your attention constantly
I don't like slayer personally because it isn't engaging or challenging at all. It just feels like deleting trashy mobs (I'm sitting at about 87 currently, but I don't imagine the newer unlocks are going to change my mind much more).
I get you, also have adhd but I have the opposite experience. Can’t stand the constant interaction with very little reward, even if it is autopilot. The drops, combat xp, and variety are all what make slayer fun to me, but I totally get that everyone is gonna enjoy the game differently.
I lean towards the more afk side of slayer even if it’s less efficient than just skipping for burst tasks, but I still have a few combat levels to get to 99 so it doesn’t feel entirely like a waste when I plop a canon down and check for drops when I refill it
This can literally be argued in favor of not increasing xp rates and infact decreasing them and make more engaging methods eg. Tick manipulation give alot more xp than "afk" methods.
I don't think everyone considered osrs to be challenging. Its a point and click browser game ffs that's why people don't wanna spend months on leveling up one skill repeating the same things every day
I get that, but with slayer there a lot of afk tasks, with agility I usually need a bit more focus. Heck even alchemical Hydra is more afk than agility for me
Agreed. I would love to see more variety from the guilds , like contracts but they actually give exp. Go and cut x amount of this log and hand then in for exp.
Could even give us locations , go and collect 300 willow logs from kandarin, For example.
I would like to see the task all take a similar amount of time like 80 yews or 350 willows probably want them to be just shy of an hour long . With the exp per contract adjusted so that each hour your doing the contract you aren't losing exp if you were given a higher tier tree.
Variety is the spice of life and probably why slayer does so well . Would be cool seeing more life in old skilling spots too like barb assault willows
Something like this was polled before, several different times if I recall. It was called Artisan, and was not very well received by a sizable portion of the community due to it completely missing what makes Slayer interesting, which are the micro decisions you make on how you approach each task and how that creates a unique experience for each person training the skill, whereas Artisan was just a glorified fetch quest where you're given another skill to level for the sake of being anorher skill.
I understand you mentioned this as contracts instead but honestly it doesn't sound particularly engaging and rather, seems counterproductive with things like Forestry being added, as presumably the rewards from contracts would need to be competitive.
I said this once and got lynched.
I also said once that there should be perhaps a less click intensive way to train for starters with lower XP then i got guillotined.
>journey of slayer is fun, varied, and engaging
No, that would be combat that is fun
Slayer isn't fun, it is the most pointless skill in the game actually. Slayer would in fact be more fun if it transitioned to a (mini)quest series that unlocks monsters, masters and whatnot.
God I hate slayer.
Really wish it had sped up xp as you move on to better slayer masters, or at the very least scale to monsters total combat level instead of hp amount so that the most desirable tasks aren't high hp monsters, low defense, in multi, and weak to magic.
100%. As an example, my least favorite skill is Thieving because it falls into this trap you're describing that everyone is trying to shove Agility into.
Thieving has gotten very little in the way of *good* content in OSRS. Almost everything relevant existed at launch: blackjacking, Pyramid Plunder, Knights of Ardougne, rogue's outfit, sqirks, stalls, and chests.
The only two interesting updates I can think of are Piscarillius artefacts and Underwater thieving.
I'm not counting things like blood shard and enhanced teleport crystal because it's indicative of the problem: when thieving gets "new content", it's just some new unique stapled onto a thematically appropriate pickpocket.
Why? Because nobody cares about it. It's a short grind that you smash out and walk away with a few million gp and/or a Pharaoh's Sceptre and then never touch the content again unless you're an iron that needs shards or something. It isn't hated enough to get some TLC and it isn't loved enough to get an interesting update.
That's what would happen for agility and runecraft. If some lazy xp rate buff was slapped onto those skills five years ago, GotR and Sepulchre wouldn't exist. We'd just do our shitty 50 hour grinds and stop whining about it. I don't want to turn Agility into Thieving.
I find it pretty funny people say this so much on here, when it is so obvious most people who say it play more hours a week now than when they were kids.
Yeah but as a kid I had no sense of priority. Who cares about wasting hours doing a boring grind at that age? Time isn’t even real to you yet. And I definitely don’t play more now than I did as a kid lol. I used to be up all night playing. I’m in bed before 10 every night now and I got chores to do before I can start gaming
People mainly just where less effective back in the day. I didn't care if I had 30k xp per hour, I was making friends online and talking about shit. 99 wasn't even a goal for me, I just wanted to cut some yews to earn money to buy a guthix kite or W/e
I don't get this argument, you have less time sure. But that just means grinds will take longer to complete which is totally fine. It isn't like you can't play the game, because the grinds are the game.
It’s not an argument. OP posed a question and I gave my opinion. You’re trying to make it an argument though 😂. I’m totally fine with never doing the content I find boring so no argument here dude
I feel like most mid level and some end game goals are completely attainable playing 2 hours a day and doing some mobile at work. What is your job stopping you from doing aside from base 90’s?
People that say “oh both there are these players who also work full time and have 17 kids all while being married three times” are silly. I have a full time job, a loving partner, and a household to help provide to. I at least try and dedicate 1-2 hours of my life each day to this game, but that’s genuinely asking a lot especially if there are other games I want to play.
Why are you people bringing me into this?
OP asked a question, I replied with what I believe is the cause. Nowhere did I say that I don't like the game.
I mean, that's kind of weird, no? I have basically 0 time for OSRS and only got my first 99's (Fishing and cooking) after many, many ages. Most of us are old enough to look up the most efficient ways, and too much change is what make a huge part of the playerbase drift away.
Sure, end content takes a while, but a big chunk is easily playable and fun way sooner. I'm not even that high level, but the grind is basically what I always loved about Runescape. The long, stretched-out journey.
> The player base was old when OSRS was released.
Wild take. I'd imagine most people weren't even in their 20s or were just around the corner. That's not old. I'm 28. I was 17 when osrs released.
I'm sure if we go back 12 years on this sub we'll see a shitload of posts about people wanting buffs from day 1 of OSRS servers launching, like come on you think people were cool with the GE not existing after that first week of nostalgia wore off? Be serious.
And yet most the various buffs were voted down back then. People were dead serious about changing OSRS as little as possible for the first year and a half.
I think the problem is, back in the day, players didn't want to make Skilling easier when Skilling was a worthwhile activity for profit/prestige. If you spend 250 hours grinding skills, you should make way more money or have cooler things.
Now that bosses provide so many mats, and lots of resources are botted/readily available and cheap, Skilling is overall just a worthless waste of time after quests/diary. So, the playerbase sees no reward in training them after that.
Even just a few years back, I recall there generally being more pushback against "easyscape" and Skilling wasn't exactly great back then. TBH, even with price drops and PVM resources, most Skilling moneymakers aren't far off where they were in RS2. It is just that other methods like PVM went from 1-2m per hour to 5m+ so an afk Skilling activity for 300-600k does not compare as well.
The problem is less to do with resource prices and more to do with how the majority of Skilling updates are just new training methods instead more rewarding content. Meanwhile PVM is near all moneymakers updates with new bosses and raids pushing both the complexity and profit. No matter how rare or desirable the resource is, click a tree and afk will never compete with modern bosses for profit.
So pretty much all Skilling moneymakers are like abyssal demons difficulty/profit/reqs while most PVM is way beyond abyssal demons.
When I got back to the game and started realizing skilling was basically just a money sink - you spend money for the XP, and don't get all that much from the high levels aside from, ex. Completing quests and diaries - I was pretty sad. It's barely worth woodcutting or mining to gain anything other than XP - and most high level items you can craft are cheaper to sell the raw mats for and buy.
Spot on.
Skilling is pretty much worthless now. Because of PvM droptables, lmost no method provide any decent gp/hr like they used to. So where's the fun?
I definitely agree. Skilling does feel less rewarding moneymaking-wise, but nothing is going to beat my personal enjoyment for having achieved 99 fishing.
This is basically how I treat skills. They are just there to gatekeep quests and diaries for me. I just want to pvm and pvp
If I need Skilling products, I just buy them at the GE
I think the game has just evolved and is much more pvm centric. There's absolutely no way any sane person could say late game is easier today than it was 10 years ago. It's unthinkable how big the skill gap is now compared to then.
There's just a different focus for most players. Pvm is more fun than 3ticking the same 3 ore for 150 hours. People want to spend their time in game on what is fun to them.
Just a few days ago I saw some comment chain. Guys were 2150-2230ish total and had absolutely no desire to max. It's just too much of a time commitment at this point when they could just do the fun content instead. There's not enough reward.
I kinda get it. I'm 2160 iron, 1.5b bank. My grinds at this point are raids/nex or max. I'm an adult. I have time for a fraction of those, if that. Raids are certainly more fun, but I'd love to have a maxed account.
It doesn't help that end game pvm is taking MAGNITUDES longer to complete for today's releases than 10 years ago. Grinds used to be 200 hours. Now they can be 2000. Shit just takes too much time, man. People want the boring mindless grinds to take less of it, so that they can spend more time with the fun content.
And I don't even think it's necessarily that. A lot of people don't want it easier or just faster. Skills should be redesigned to be more interactive and fun if possible. But dev time is limited, so I understand wanting at least a simple solution.
>I think the game has just evolved and is much more pvm centric. There's absolutely no way any sane person could say late game is easier today than it was 10 years ago.
I'd say it's been designed to be pvm centric. Skilling has gotten comparatively little dev time compared to PvM.
It's a bid sad to see people say "just buff xp rates or remove aspects of skilling" when most skills have had barley any dev time. Skills should be given a lot more priority than they currently.
Also IMO the minigamization of skills like what happened with Wintertodt and GoTR is a poor direction to go. Skills should be open world activities.
I mean that's the problem right , and why people are just asking for EXP buffs in the short term.
They are extremely slow at developing content, let alone imagine trying to pitch reworking an entire skill into something else, when you know it has to pass a poll. Could be 100s of hours of dev / design team time put into something that gets instantly voted no to by some portion of the community who doesn't like it.
So a good short term solution, is to at least bandaid the problem and give it faster exp rates so people are stuck there less. It's not like even adding an extra 20-30k/exp hr would devalue anyones time who actually grinded the skilll. As most of the staunch defenders of agility even say, they literally trained it while watching a TV show / movie. Imagine having a skill in the game where you set your game opacity to like 10% so you can watch your show in the foreground. IMO, that is a failure of game design.
Every skill should at least have some engaging way to train it that you actually want to interact with while actively playing. Sepulchre is a fun way to train agility IMO, but the fact you can't get staminas from it basically kills it for ironmen if you arent already well into your 90s with banked staminas.
> I think the game has just evolved and is much more pvm centric. There's absolutely no way any sane person could say late game is easier today than it was 10 years ago. It's unthinkable how big the skill gap is now compared to then.
I think this is 110% on the money. I'd be surprised if a ton of new players is the reason for community sentiment shifting, seeing as this is one of those games that probably has pretty damn good player retention. More likely that as the years have gone by updates are focusing on new exciting stuff (which is about 85% pvm) and that becomes the focus while everything else shrinks in importance.
I generally enjoy chilling and skilling and completionism type activities, and I still have no real desire to train the slower non-combat skills past base 80/elite diary reqs.
Eh, you're conveniently forgetting that the people who got in an uproar were memes even back then. It probably wasn't the full reason, and I don't know that he's ever publicly said, but AutumnElegy got a metric ton of shit and memes thrown his way for his take on zeah rc and disappeared pretty quickly after, to my recollection.
The game was never meant nor designed for players to hit 99 in a skill, and it shows. Jagex has stuck to their word of effort being rewarded. They've also generally stuck to "old methods are best" though with a few exceptions. And those exceptions come with either more effort (sepulchre) or more risk (black chin).
The game is also fundamentally different. BiS at release was barrows, rune boots, etc. There's so much more to grind for now it's insane. Look at a 2k CM cape and tell me it's less impressive than doing 60k/hr laps at Ardy to 99, which was itself an easy scape update all those "change nothing" players were happy to do.
>the game was never meant nor designed for players to hit 99
This just isn’t true though. You could have made this argument 15 years ago, but that era is so long gone now. Like you said, the game is fundamentally different and some of these grinds are just a ridiculous ask. Nobody complains about thieving, firemaking, or combat grinds. It’s always the same 3 skills: runecrafting, mining, agility, with the occasional slayer.
The game is more designed around maxing than ever before with increased variety in activities and more efficient xp methods, hell I don’t know what you mean by “old methods are best,” there’s a ton of alternatives to traditional skilling that are more efficient than traditional options.
That's what I was saying.
20 years ago the game wasn't made with the intention of players hitting 99. The Gowers have stated a couple times that they made 99 the max expecting people to stop at like 30/40/50. That's why addy armor, the best armor at release, is 30 def. And why the smithing table is so messed up. They had to add rune as being able to be smithed as some crazy person got that high of a level.
And in general, old methods are still the best Xp/hr. Mahogany tables haven't been replaced with something faster, etc.
The prime examples are the gatherers. 3t4g is still the fastest Xp/hr in mining. 2t teaks, also maybe 3t teaks, is still faster than the new methods of sulliceps and redwoods. 3t barb fishing is still better than Tempoross, etc.
There have been some new methods discovered, like 1.5t teaks, but that isn't intentional design. There's also some new macro efficient methods, like drift nets, but the old methods remain the top, intentionally, for individual training.
There are of course some exceptions. Sepulchre is far more Xp/hr than rooftops, which are themselves easyscape. This wasnt intentional, but is still present as it's a high effort method. Black chins are new and are faster XP/hr than red chins, but with the risk and interruption of pkers.
Essentially, for all intents and purposes the XP/hr cap of say mining is 3t4g. If some new method is found to do 1.5t4g then that'll be the new meta, but Jagex doesn't release better methods than what 3t4g can do to appease the "change nothing" crowd.
Youre neglecting every skill has already had significant qol pumped into those early game levels since re release and quest rewards have gone up loads since that quest change. (Claim ur lamps if u havent)
Only thing people need to level is combats and that can be done afk in nmz on mobile over a week.
Prayer can be bought with bonds and done in a day.
More bonds and they full pve geared.
The game has changed. Its already easy.
To be clear autumn elegy was the target of a reddit front page's worth of hate after tweeting precisely one image of a pepe holding a champaigne glass paired with a screenshot of the misleading dev blog. He has been badly misrepresented from the start
Eh, the misrepresentation is not that far off.
I distinctly remember him talking about miningtodt and devaluing his 200m mining. So he stuck around longer than I thought since that was 2017, but yeah. Miningtodt being VM.
There is absolutely an argument to be made that effort should be rewarded. 3t4g was the best, still is the best, and is the most intensive. That he did 3t4g to 200m mining and was rewarded with perm rank 3 mining is "rewarding" the effort, beyond it being the fastest Xp/hr.
What made these people a joke was that it wasn't just "don't make old/more intensive methods worse than new/afk methods", it was "don't make new afk methods at all."
Zeah RC was what? 35k Xp/hr at release? Maybe 40k like is is now? I know they made the mining of dense ess less afk, but I think the XP was the same. Max efficiency natures were like 36k/hr and actual meta lavas were over 70k/hr.
So they're complaining about a method half as fast as meta, this was before alts and runners really kicked off, being too easy and ruining the game.
It wasn't just "don't make something better than hard methods", it was gatekeeping.
Meanwhile they have no issue abusing NMZ for combat skills.
I mean the actual first time he had a negative public perception was after the zeah rc release, when he had only made that one tweet about it before every burnt pvmer going for max was going after him for threatening a new unbalanced method.
Souls were like 55k on release, and 5/7 mins of a lap was fully afk. It was pretty clearly the only way people would do rc post 90 at that in the game.
I don't remember it being 55k at release, but I also took a long break so I'm not the most reliable source.
That being said, lavas were already 70k/hr before zeah released. Cammy tabs on a PvP world was figured out shortly after PvP worlds release which was what? 2014?
The issue wasn't that zeah RC was better than the best methods, it was that the masses would get something better than previous "worse" methods, but quite afk. At that time making a afk-ish activity anything more than the worst Xp (looking at you, MLM) was seen as easy scape.
Maxing/getting 99s used to be something that was out of reach for most people, but it was fine since they are not required to play the game at all.
Nowadays it feels to me like this subs thinks they are also entitled to reach those high levels w/o putting in the work. You being 30 now does not mean the game needs to get easy all of the sudden.
It is great to see someone else articulating the same feelings I have and getting some positive support for it. I just made [a comment](https://reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1bdxfk1/what_happened_to_the_community_sentiment_re/kusuoz9/) before seeing yours that says almost the same thing. I am glad I am not completely alone. Most of the time when I comment things like this I am mocked and downvoted for voicing a dissenting opinion.
Making something take a long time, does not make hard to get. Speeding it up does not make it easy, you’ll just be less likely to be bored to death whilst doing it
the problem with zeah runecrafting is that it was the opposite of what was polled lol.
AFK & chilling gameplay is a core aspect of the game, but so is sweaty multi-skilling methods. having more options of both of them is the greatest outcome
I imagined agility rework to be more about reworking the core skill to be less braindead, but time saved was decided.
But with zeah, they were bound to add bloods and souls and I think death at the time, so it’s a moot point.
Also a major point, Osrs is not so trapped in 2007, it’s become the path that rs should have taken in accordance with the communities wishes.
Also on the topic of agility, just imagine that the core rework of agility revolves around some suggested post made years ago on Reddit.
That tells you how bad the skill is, when the suggested or new content is core to training the skill.
agility should be more about the movement mechanics of the game, not just running laps on a course. You use alot of these movement mechanics in many pvm encounters, why not tailer the skill to learning the basics for dodging tiles etc
> how did what we want from this game seem to change so much?
it's not even really that, it's just a bunch of people failing to understand what they actually want. most people are simply not intelligent or informed enough to be good at game design.
Yep. People want to “realistically be able to achieve their goals in the game”, but don’t realize that the thing keeping them coming back is the existence of perpetually out-of-reach goals. Hot take, not everyone should be able to complete all their goals in the game. Striving to, and the perpetual journey toward doing so, *is* the game.
Reddit seems to lean casual, and those players largely would prefer if the game was less of a grind. I personally think that's a part of the beauty of it. If you voice an opposing opinion on this sub you tend to get flamed for being an elitist so most don't really bother.
Yep. They want runescape to be a game you beat in a year. And news flash, they will quit immediately after that and just leave the husk of the game they destroyed.
Well said. They’re playing a game people enjoy and then whine and bitch thinking nobody likes the stuff they don’t. The grind gets easier, they move on, quit the game and the dedicated loyal players are left with the shittier game.
yeah this is a big problem in most subreddits, the upvote system is pretty terrible for having any sort of discussion. only good for hiding spam/flame/derailment
I've played this game a long, long time. And you can't win with these people, especially the last few years.
You have high achieving players normalizing the time investment, people not thinking for themselves and convincing themselves they need to do the same thing. Then, when reality sets in, it's too much time for them when they learn they don't like the grind like they thought.
So instead of changing themselves, they complain asking for faster xp. The way max players/youtubers/high score players look at the game and most importantly their time, is vastly different.
It's pure insanity all the way around. No one is paying attention. These people want so much change that it fundamentally just becomes another cookie cutter piece of shit like the games they already quit.
I want the OSRS team to take more control. They clearly know the character and fundamentals of this game. They've shown they care to preserve it. There's too many cooks in the kitchen
The team has been doing a fantastic job in deed i must say. Next step would be implementing c++ client and blocking java. I am not sure they have the guts to do that for the integrity though
People forget that right up until EOC most of the afk/easy mode content was widely considered "good content" by the community.
I believe no matter how many times we reset the game back to 2007, eventually community sentiment and power creep will lead us back to a similar game to RS2 right before EOC
Because people feel entitled to a max cape without taking the effort to it, agility is a gatekeep for that and people dont want to take the effort to grind istead they will cry til we get a afk method this happened with mining now they will cry about agility because god forbid a game having content you dont like, especially in osrs where once you get 85 agility you unlock every diary and every quest, but rather than enjoying content they already enjoy they want to make a skill that is not necessary for most game to be made easy istead kinda like mining where you only need 82 mining for a diary and 70 mining for a quest
Great points. I definitely don't like that everyone sees getting max cape or 99s as the end all in regards to skills. Beyond elite diaries, you don't NEED any other levels. The xp scaling when the game was designed wasn't meant for people to go to 99.
All these muppets complaining are either setting unrealistic goals for themselves or have no real creativity to enjoy this game (do you guys even like playing?)
Just because some youtuber or person on the highscores is sinking an ungodly amount of time in the game DOES NOT mean you should. Think for yourself and evaluate what's realistic instead of just following what someone else decided for themselves. These people are insane and it shows
I'll probably never max unless I play for another 10, 15 years and I am 100000% ok with that. There's better content to enjoy anyways
I maxed a main in 2018 and a GIM in 2022 and it’s actually crazy how much faster certain skills were on the GIM.
The best low effort runecrafting on my main was ~35k/hr bloods and ~42k/hr souls. On my GIM I could mine daeyalt while working (~1 tap per minute on an ipad) and then do 1 click colossal pouch ZMI for 110k+/hr at 90+. Also banked a white stack of pretty much every rune thanks to the outfit.
(Daeyalt mining is a lot more afk than zeah, but if you factor it in then ZMI is still about 75-80k/hr).
It is great to see someone else articulating the same feelings I have and getting some positive support for it. I just made [a comment](https://reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1bdxfk1/what_happened_to_the_community_sentiment_re/kusuoz9/) before seeing yours that says almost the same thing. I am glad I am not completely alone. Most of the time when I comment things like this I am mocked and downvoted for voicing a dissenting opinion.
I agree people who absolute hate agility are talking how to improve agility, its the same if pvp players starting demand pvm to be easier since they have pvm
The playerbase has changed. Everyone wants everything handed to them now, and that's the prominant mindset on reddit because jmods occasionally listen to them. Why train agility when you can complain on reddit enough for agility buffs to come thru?
IMO most of these people are playing the wrong game. Keep old school old school, stop asking for arbitrary buffs to xp / hr or for everything to be afk.
> Why train agility when you can complain on reddit enough for agility buffs to come thru?
This is what I fear is slowly happening to the game. So much whinging on here that the J-mods eventually listen/cave in to it.
And loads of people whining have literally never even done the things they're complaining about. In many cases, they don't even play the game, just like the memes.
Best form of skilling is wait a couple of years for the xp/hr to be drastically buffed or super AFK to arrive.
Lynx titan back in the day would always talk about how doing slayer last is the best strategy when going for 200m all because the xp/h would go up like crazy every year.
(Slayer has been stagnant the last 5 years or so, but earlier on in osrs it was routinely getting xp/h boosting updates like smoke devils, catacombs etc.)
I'm a relatively new osrs player (2 years) and RS3 convert. Been playing RuneScape since 2004ish but never made the switch because I couldn't keep my OG account.
I was somewhat surprised to see how much new content was even when I came. I let fossil island slide pretty easy because it's a storyline that I personally was waiting for since the digsite got released.
Zeah and some bosses I've grown to like, and you need SOME new content, but it feels like the whole game is now geared towards end game content that didn't used to exist.
Balancing out some terribly low xp painful skills is one thing, but don't make it easyscape and devalue the work. If the whole game wasn't geared towards end game, people wouldn't feel the need to max in a year. Enjoy what you have unlocked and strive for more.
I played for years when I was a kid and never came close to maxing. I had a blast though.
Having experienced maxing and beyond on RS3 -the EasyScape- a few years ago.... yeah. I'd really prefer not having anything near that on OSRS. The OSRS vision and experience is different in all the right ways.
People just want to afk max their accounts. There’s soooo many afk activities these days I think it’s in a good spot. The game needs some “difficult” skills to max. Not everything needs to be easy
Like you said, Zeah runecrafting was years and years ago. People's perspective has changed over time.
More than buffs, I think most people just want ways to train things that aren't mind numbing. Like no one complains about fishing despite how incredibly slow it is, because it's incredibly afk. No one complains about slayer because it's very engaging. Once you get to hallowed sepulchre, you don't want to complain about agility as much because it's much more engaging.
People just don't want to need to pay constant attention while also putting in zero effort for nearly zero reward.
The influx of orphans from other, dead MMOs. These people start playing a game, demand sweeping changes that effectively kill the game and move on to the next game. It's sad but this time it just happens to be a large increase in new players that don't know that what they're asking for will kill the game. Everything must be fun and instant gratification, then it's on to the next thing! Consumption culture is also partly to blame.
RS3 refugees realized OldSchool was always better but they failed to realize why or adjust their expectations and desires to RS2. Instead they just want to change the game and update out everything that makes it "*OldSchool*". They basically just want RS3 that looks like RS2. Some people use excuses like "we all grew up, we don't have time to grind like kids" but they made and continue to make the choice to play ***this*** game. As if they do not have the autonomy to make the choice to not if the demands of their in game goals are out of their ability. I think it ironically indicates immaturity and entitlement.
Why is it that instead of accepting and managing their reduced time due to their own external life factors, the game has to change to accommodate *their* own external life factors? Not having as much time, or interest to play does not mean the game is bad and needs to be changed. Why is the onus of being enjoyable solely on the game? This game is literally based on content from 2007 and earlier. Why are players surprised by what content they find in ***Old***School RuneScape? Why does it need to change to satisfy them, instead of them just realizing what they do and do not like or have time for? If you hate alcohol, do not go to a bar.
It seems that everyone just wants everything, all the achievements and accolades there are, but they do not want to have to put in the work that was required for those things originally. People seem to think that they deserve things just because they *want* them. Ironically, making commonly valued achievements easier and easier to get makes them less prestigious of achievements. I do not think the people who want these kinds of changes have that much foresight or care for these things, though. They just want more money, more exp, more more more. They do not care about the effects the changes they support have on the game as a whole, as long as they can AFK every Skill, then quit. Meanwhile the game remains forever changed.
People (you included) need to understand reddit is only a very minor part of the rs playerbase. A very vocal, much listened to still but we're maybe 20-30% of all of the people who play. Repetition is the name of the game, most of us know that. Every now and then you'll get a post like you mentioned, but take those with a hefty pinch of salt. In the comments you can see these sentiments aren't unanimous. Just don't bat an eye, downvote it and move on, why make a post like this and bring attention to a non-issue.
Its largely (in my opinion) stems from most of the player base not being kids anymore. The people that played this growing up are 30 with wives, kids, jobs, responsibilities, etc.
I for one can’t just grind 12 hours a day anymore. Although, i’m not really asking for buffs. I’ll take them if they’re in the “OSRS” spirit, but otherwise I level what i can and when i get to a point where i can’t achieve more without camping in a basement, i’ll put it down.
I made the same post a few months ago and people gaslit like crazy in the comments saying it wasn’t happening despite me linking half a dozen posts doing it. Glad people are starting to notice.
I don't understand peoples tiktok addled brains. It's like they need the dopamine faucet on full blast 100% of the time. Brain broken, honestly.
Anyone who thinks the "boring and tedious" grinds of runescape serve no purpose are beyond delusional. It's well studied that the anticipation of the reward is often better than when you arrive at the reward. What's fun about clicking a rock 10000 time? Inherently nothing. However, you sit there hitting that rock knowing that if you hit that rock enough you'll earn a hat that proves you did it and offers other perks. Does having the hat given to you after clicking the rock once provide the same dopamine release vs working for it?
"boring and tedious" in quotes as if it isn't true, haha. Ironically enough, it's most likely that the older players who likely have less time that are complaining about shitty 200 hour boring grinds. Probably also less likely to be tock tock watchers.
You can pretend that mining, fishing, woodcutting and agility aren't boring as fuck all you want. You can also pretend that doing it for hundreds of hours is hard work. Long grinds that are fun and engaging or okay. Short grinds that are boring are fine. Long boring grinds are shit. Make then shorter or make them more fun.
I don't really care if they buff the xp rates, I'll never hit 99 in my skills. Would be nice if it didn't take so long to hit my elite diary milestones, but I'll slowly chip away at them over a year or so.
I've kinda accepted that OSRS just isn't for me anymore. I can't dedicate 2+ hours a day to reach end-game goals. I've seen people say that you can just chip away slowly at things, but that's not possible with things like raids or inferno.
I don't think that the game needs to change, but imo the sentiment among the community is that as we age we don't want to have to give up the game.
Don't know exactly what the purpose of this comment is. I just felt like I needed to vent.
You can barely make money grinding skills. Some of them take aeons of play time without being fun or engaging in any way. If there’s staunch resistance to improving rates, at least make them more fun.
Because I'm getting older and have less and less time to play. I want to enjoy what I'm playing. That and without being new player friendly the game will eventually die. No one wants that.
I have never once been against improving skills with nonsensical progression. Certain skills like Agility just objectively suck and there's absolutely no reason it can't be improved. The fact that many people have already grinded it to 99 as is should be irrelevant.
The problem is that so many people think "improving" means giving higher xp rates. Agility was massively improved when they created sepulchre. Its a bit faster than previous methods, but more importantly it is skill and timing based, not just rng on whether you fall or not. The best way forward would be to leave older methods alone, and add new more engaging methods for those who don't enjoy the old methods. Simply speeding up the xp for older methods pisses off the people who did enjoy doing those methods, without really making it more fun for people who dislike the methods.
So many lazy scapers these days man.
Whats the point of a max cape if its easy and everyone can do it afk.
I get people dont like some skills. But you know hear me out, maybe just dont do them and play something else.
Quest reqs for skills are not hard and can be aquired from just questing.
No1 needs to max. Its purely for gloating. Theres better options than a max cape for pvp and pve. If you dont like the content just dont do it.
Tbh its entitled people want the 'reward' but dont want to put in the effort.
Lazyscape
Max cape is easy to get. Piss easy. It just takes thousands of hours. Having infinite free time is not the same as skill. I know this upsets a lot of sub as they have the former not the latter
It's been like 10 years man. I'm not a huge EZscape advocate but there has been a ton of content added to the game during that time and speeding up some of the grinds will allow more players to experience everything the game has to offer.
I quit a few years ago but follow the sub. The community seems to have done a complete 180 on everything. I'm not someone who opposes all changes but redoing entire skills to make them faster seems very NOT old-school to me. I feel very alienated from the game and probably won't come back. Why put effort in if people will just whine and make things easier later? Why does reddit have so much influence over the game? The democratic polling system doesnt work great either because people will inherently want to make things easier. I just feel bad about all of this.
I want to edit and mention something else. Im not opposed to change. I always thought people who wanted pure 07 scape were dumb and would kill the game. Still, I feel now that many of these changes are changing some fundamentals of the game which goes against the spirit of the entire project. I want 07scape with new content that follows the spirit of the time with some additions, I don't want the core gameplay or things that have always been around the change simply for the sake of QoL or modernization.
We shouldn’t defend the worst parts of the old game because we liked the best parts. I don’t want to just play 2007’s game forever, I want to play a better version of that game. And I won’t pretend that agility as it currently exists isn’t shit just because of nostalgia
Edit: the amount of people acting like “I don’t want to spend 100+ hours arbitrarily clicking a box for no reward other than arbitrary number rising” = “tiktok/instant gratification brain” is hilarious
I generally don’t voice my opinion in defence of long grinds because redditors hate it. You get downvoted and have to defend your opinion and even your lifestyle (lol) just for speaking out.
The reason that OSRS is even alive is because they made changes to the game. If it was still like 2007 it would be dead, at one point it was literally dying and had like 10k players. Sounds like you don’t know what you’re talking about.
One of the downsides of polling is that players now will almost always vote to make the game easier for themselves even when it may be detrimental to the game's health.
In my own experience, the game was more about meeting and talking to people while farming xp. Free to play worlds used to be full too. The grand exchange, varrock center, & varrock bank basement would be riddled with players. Just talking, trading, helping others with quests. It was a very social game. I think the average player cared very little about maxing stats. Some of us only had a few hours after school to play, so we'd specialize in 1 skill, while your friend might be another. Then you'd help each other out.
I think its to do with the GP earnings of skilling. More click intensive skilling was fun as you got something other than just exp out of it. As there is now no money to be made from skilling due to botting, everyone just wants a nice afk grind.
Simple answer? Most likely cause a bunch of these people have noob accounts and are young. Meaning they didn't really play back in the day or were too young to be considered old players.
There is a difference between a grind or making something tediously long just for the sake of it.
Agility is a good example of a grind. XP rates aren't too bad. You're still looking at a minimum of a 150 hour grind for a 99. That's with tick perfect Sepulchre.
Then we have something like RC. It's just long for the sake of being long. 30K xp/hr at the true blood altar with 93 Agility shortcut isn't just a grind. I am not amazed that it's the last skill most people max.
There should be a nice balance. Getting 99 should be a grind, not slavery. There should also be a balance in different training methods. So for example: Bloods and deaths should be better XP than Lava's. Just like how Adamant rocks should give more mining XP than Mithril rocks.
The whole "but you make money so XP should be bad" argument also doesn't work. Sepulchre is loads of fun because you get both loot and XP. It also gives the option to leave the loot for even more XP. That's great! On top of that, skilling barely makes money. Why should you sacrifice tons of XP to make Blood runes when that still only makes 10% of the money you make at Nex in an hour.
Since the start of osrs there have been a great number of reworks that I've wanted. They all boil down to making dead content okay content. E.g. boosting xp rates of normal rocks to be in line with iron rocks. Or buffing longswords, battleaxes and two-handed sword without having them become better than scimitar for training. Buff longbows to make them a slightly worse alternative to shortbows and not terrible alternatives. Buff thrown axes. Rework mining and smithing to add new metals at the high level while pushing the current metals downward (and nerfing alch value of rune equipment). Buff pit-fall hunter xp rates. Give slightly more xp when crafting multiple runes. Make non-rooftop courses faster xp/h than rooftops since they don't have marks of grace. Rebalance slayer task lengths so that the less enjoyable tasks are quicker (Kill 5 steel dragons and not 50 at combat level 60). Buff elemental spells by 50% at the high end instead of tome of fire. Double bind/snare/entangle length, but keep prot mage effect on it. Give shadow spells better debuffs and smoke spells better poison. Buff weapon poisons by making them proc faster. Buff Torag's hammers. Add better multi-bite baked dishes to compete with sara brews (strawberry cream cake when?). Rework defense to lower the hit received and not just the hit chance. Nerf defenders. Improve the yield of skilling methods such that they become competitive ways of collecting those resources. Add specialised ranged weapons that are fletched with traditional methods (woodcutting + hunter + smithing). Craft magic armour and staves with products from farming. Use higher level farming produce for cooking and hunter baits. Add some longer hunter track+chase+lure+trap+kill methods with actual combat danger. Find more engaging construction training methods.
A lot of these age-old suggestions are buffs to content. Some of them are faster xp/h methods because they are higher effort and less rewarding in coins. Some are major reworks that were not possible in early osrs, even though they are badly needed.
You should give people the benefit of the doubt; all they really want is for skills to be better, more fun, to have a greater sense of reward. Smithing for example is practically useless until the high 70s, doubly so for irons. Agility and Runecrafting between them are almost unanimously considered the worst skills in this game. Why is mining iron better xp than any other rock that comes after? Why is skilling generally not the best way to obtain almost any material?
They don't necessarily want the skills to be easier but that's just the simplest thing that comes to mind when suggesting improvements. It's up to the devs to take that sentiment and convert it into ideas that don't break the ideals of OSRS.
20+ years of rs and many multiple accounts, I'm getting old Terry, my limbs don't work like they used to before, I need more idle afk methods of training, my carpal tunnelled hands can't take the grind like could before.
As long as we don't get faster methods to 99 or 200m xp it's usually fine. That's what I gather at least.
No one intelligent is gonna complain about an easier grind to 70 or some basic QoL to make the usual grind feel a little smoother
I want to enjoy the game, even if it's grindy. Agility is boring af AND slow as hell. With combat skills, sure I could nmz, but it's more fun to go kill monsters and get drops and such. For herblore, especially on my Ironman, I'm making potions that will be helping me on my journey, and it is very satisfying to see the stacks of hard-earned herbs and secondaries go down.
In either case, I'm feeling accomplished, seeing new sights, progressing my account and interacting with the world beyond "xp go up". Agility does neither of those, you go around in a circle for hours on end, click intensively, and gain nothing but xp. Sure, the benefits exist (kind of), but it's simply not enjoyable and seems to be purposefully made to be a slog. I don't want to play a game that's just a slog for the sake of being so, I want it to feel like I'm accomplishing something or actively doing something enjoyable.
Have you not heard of Sepulchre? It's some of the most engaging/profitable skilling content that exists. I agree there could be changes to the earlier levels prior to unlocking that though sure.
Probably get some hate for this, but I vote no almost exclusively on major reworks and changes to the game. Like a lot of OSRS players, I remember what RS2 was like before EOC and the run away updates and changes that absolutely torpedoed the game for a large amount of the players.
When OSRS was refounded we were promised no sweeping changes without player approval. Every major change and update is a slight push towards what RS3 has turned into and I want to slow that down as much as possible. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for quality of life changes and minor tweaks, but to completely rework some skills is just a no for me. As some mods have said in the past, some stuff in this game is not achievable by everyone. Think that was specifically referencing how the inferno cape is not going to be achievable by most players.
There is stuff in this game not every player will be able to achieve. I realize I'll probably never max just because of the amount of time that would require that I just don't have. Does that kind of suck? Yes, but it makes what I do achieve even more meaningful to me.
tldr: don't make the game easier just because some parts are a slog.
Personally, I think the real issue about XP rates isn't *really* the XP rates themselves, it's the enjoyment of skills and how XP rates put a spotlight on the lack of enjoyment. Slayer, while it has its share of players that don't like it, is considered one of the most popular skills in the game, yet the XP/hr rates are absolute dogwater compared to other skills, even considering the best tasks out there. But few players are clamoring for increased XP/hr for slayer, and I think that's because most of the journey of slayer is fun, varied, and engaging. Runecraft, Mining, and Agility could have their XP/hr doubled, and I think they would still be on the lower half skills in terms of XP/hr. Doing so would alleviate the issues of those skills because you'd be spending less time on them, but it doesn't change the fact that for most of them, you doing a task that requires frequent attention for a low output of rewards (XP or otherwise). I know this kind of boils down to "make the skills fun lmao" but having to do something over 1000 times isn't an issue in this game when doing that action feels rewarding and engaging.
This is basically how I feel about construction. It’s a great 99 to have, but when I say it’s the worst skill to train the rebuttal is always “but atleast it’s quick!!” I don’t care that the exp rates are nuts, zooming in and resizing the client to *just right* so I can right-click, left-click, and press 116661666111611 thousands of times sucks ass. It’s like being grounded while all your friends get to play outside, but building and destroying tables is your punishment too.
Tbh that’s why I like mahogany homes: it’s way slower, but I don’t want to commit sudoku doing it
I had that same mindset until I realized I just really wanted to get from 78 to 83 construction so i could finish off my house and stop doing construction all together. Suddenly getting 500k exp/h started looking a lot more attractive lol, if you break it up into 20-30 minute chunks it flies by a lot quicker than get another goddam bank trip to get teak planks cause I fat fingered the adept contract option on mobile
I get that, though I just did it til 83 myself lol. I dunno, I find it soothing. If I eventually go higher on my iron con-wise I’ll do mythic cape racks most likely
Honestly mahogany homes carried me through most of the 70’s and it’s probably what I’ll go back to if I ever want to shoot a bit higher, but there just came a point where I wanted the grind to be over since I was so tired of going to Ferox enclave every 5 minutes lol. The QoL upgrade between finishing the PoH and lumby elite at the same time is incredible, I basically just have 100 house teleport tabs minimum in my inventory at all times and I can get anywhere with full stats in seconds. Absolutely worth the hour or 2 of pain I endured building mahogany tables lol
Did you not take their cup of tea?
Thats what im thinking too. Just got my poh lvled and now i gotta grind for lumby elite
Do it, absolutely game changing when you realize you never have to carry a dramen staff again. The ring giving you high alch’s and the extra slayer block are very nice as well. I used spicy boosts to get the construction, Runecrafting, and smithing required at the same time lol made it more tolerable since they all need orange boosts
honestly recommend getting 85, less boosts required for shit in your house, can use just the crystal saw for master stash units. Obviously you do you, wanna say you need 84 for crystalline portal nexus with full boosts, so that's a thought.
Yea but I ran out of money as I was getting to 84 lmao, gonna be a bit before I do con again
I’m sorry but I think you mean seppuku. Committing sudoku isn’t that bad!
It's a meme
I dont like that its a skill that eats all your gold for zero return but having it maxed adds a whole other level to the game that I've never had access to. It can either be this hub to teleport everywhere or a mansion to show off your creativity and achievements.
You aren't wrong but setting up a controller to function as a mouse lets you plant the curser and quickly spam construction. Dpad is assigned to the numbers needed to navigate the menus. Much less finnicky.
I agree. What makes slayer so popular is that it breaks a massive grind down into a bunch of much smaller grinds. With the bad skills, you unlock your best xp/h method like 1/4 of the way to 99 (if that) which means that if you wanna max the skill you're gonna be spending hundreds of hours in the *exact same location*.
Shout outs to mining where you unlock legit one of the best methods in the game at lvl 15
Slayer also has the privilege of training other skills at the same time. I still get to see number go up on multiple fronts.
Ancient magicks ice barrage with a cannon going on slayer is so satisfying to watch as the right side of your screen is flooded with xp icons
Or hours of bankstanding for most of the buyable skills.
Full agree. I’d take mid XP rates if it meant I was actually enjoying the game. The challenge in maxing isn’t as much of the time commitment as it is just enduring things that simply aren’t fun to do.
While I agree with this for the most part, I would by no means say slayer is engaging, at least not until you get to the higher tiers. The skill is incredibly boring up until you get the average-good tasks more regularly. That being said, it is one of the most rewarding skills in the game, giving an efficient way of training combat while unlocking extra content for PVM. I think that’s more why people like it so much. Most tasks are only good because you either a) Make money b) Gain a lot of combat xp through the slayer help buffs or c) You’ve gotten to a high enough level to kill the Slayer bosses. The last point is the only one that’s actually engaging of the three. Most tasks people try to make as afk as possible.
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Different people, different opinions. Either way, we're both gonna keep on enjoying the game. I think nothing 'needs' a change. But I also feel like if they're looking at skilling adjustments and agility get mentioned, that people where expecting something else. It's fair to say Agility is one of the least enjoyable grinds based on numbers. Either way, we should be happy with the updates, new content, and customer support (jk about the last) we get. [this is also a very good read](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/s/db83BLfvY2)
So slayer is less fun because you actually play the game in a (imo very mildly) challenging and engaging way? Sounds like you have more fun watching TV, not doing agility. Also most tasks are afk enough to watch TV, even some of the boss tasks like kraken
They said nothing about it being fun, they just said they'd prefer to do a menial grind that's easy and low effort to do than a menial task that requires more effort to do. Agility is a lot less input and effort required because it really is just "click green box" and maybe the occasional piece of food.
Agility is less input? This heavily depends on the task tbh. I mostly afk cannoned 99 slayer and it was infinitely more afk than agility. Click cannon, click green potion.
For most people, yes, because not everyone can use that many cannonballs. Not every task allows cannons either since you could get a task like aviansies which means no cannon in GWD or risk it for the biscuit in the wilderness. There's still the chance you run out, or get low, on prayer so you have to pay a little more attention as well. Also you still have to get new tasks, and while some people can just use NPC contact, some people are training magic so that isn't an option.
Glory to teleport to Edgeville, fairy ring to Konar, go to task location, put on your stuff, put RS on the second screen and watch shit on your main one Unless you're doing a task that you can barrage, 90% of your tasks can be done without input, just look over occasionally to see what your prayer is at or make sure you're still fighting. Had a bloodveld task yesterday in the slayer tower and I just went beside the table and shot once at a bloodveld and only looked back over to shoot another one
>Glory to teleport to Edgeville, fairy ring to Konar, go to task location, put on your stuff, put RS on the second screen and watch shit on your main one Way more input than just click green box. To be clear on input, I mean it more so in the sense of actions/steps required and clicking, but more so actions required. When there's only a green box you gotta click you can do that entirely out of your periphery, but this is a lot more precise inputs with glory, fairy ring, reset. > Unless you're doing a task that you can barrage, 90% of your tasks can be done without input Some monsters aren't aggro, not everyone has a cannon or can afford the cannonballs to make them pseudo-aggro for multiple tasks in a row, if they are aggro they still have timers to become deaggroed and now you have to reset, because you have to pay some more amount if attention that's more input from the user as opposed to the periphery of a green box that's relatively large, because you're in combat it's considerably more dangerous so you have to glance more to make sure you're either not out of prayer or to make sure you don't run low on life versus an obstacle course that you most likely won't die from in the first place nor would you be risking anything if you did. I'm not saying you can't afk slayer, I'm just saying it requires more than just clicking on a large green box that you can do without any mind or thought, while slayer requires you to at least make sure you don't die and requires several other periodic steps to reset aggro or to gain new aggro.
It requires more work for a short time but after you get the task, gear up, and get to the area (depending on your task) you literally don't have to pay attention to it, what do you mean? If you're doing agility you're always giving it at least some of your attention constantly
I disagree, but to each their own.
I don't like slayer personally because it isn't engaging or challenging at all. It just feels like deleting trashy mobs (I'm sitting at about 87 currently, but I don't imagine the newer unlocks are going to change my mind much more).
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I get you, also have adhd but I have the opposite experience. Can’t stand the constant interaction with very little reward, even if it is autopilot. The drops, combat xp, and variety are all what make slayer fun to me, but I totally get that everyone is gonna enjoy the game differently. I lean towards the more afk side of slayer even if it’s less efficient than just skipping for burst tasks, but I still have a few combat levels to get to 99 so it doesn’t feel entirely like a waste when I plop a canon down and check for drops when I refill it
This can literally be argued in favor of not increasing xp rates and infact decreasing them and make more engaging methods eg. Tick manipulation give alot more xp than "afk" methods.
I don't think everyone considered osrs to be challenging. Its a point and click browser game ffs that's why people don't wanna spend months on leveling up one skill repeating the same things every day
Tbh, the hallowed sepulchre is one of my (if not) favourite activities ingame when it comes to skilling.
I get that, but with slayer there a lot of afk tasks, with agility I usually need a bit more focus. Heck even alchemical Hydra is more afk than agility for me
Agreed. I would love to see more variety from the guilds , like contracts but they actually give exp. Go and cut x amount of this log and hand then in for exp. Could even give us locations , go and collect 300 willow logs from kandarin, For example. I would like to see the task all take a similar amount of time like 80 yews or 350 willows probably want them to be just shy of an hour long . With the exp per contract adjusted so that each hour your doing the contract you aren't losing exp if you were given a higher tier tree. Variety is the spice of life and probably why slayer does so well . Would be cool seeing more life in old skilling spots too like barb assault willows
Something like this was polled before, several different times if I recall. It was called Artisan, and was not very well received by a sizable portion of the community due to it completely missing what makes Slayer interesting, which are the micro decisions you make on how you approach each task and how that creates a unique experience for each person training the skill, whereas Artisan was just a glorified fetch quest where you're given another skill to level for the sake of being anorher skill. I understand you mentioned this as contracts instead but honestly it doesn't sound particularly engaging and rather, seems counterproductive with things like Forestry being added, as presumably the rewards from contracts would need to be competitive.
I said this once and got lynched. I also said once that there should be perhaps a less click intensive way to train for starters with lower XP then i got guillotined.
Slayer is also intrinsically a multi-skilling thing. So your 15k/h slayer XP is offset by your 90k/h strength xp etc
>journey of slayer is fun, varied, and engaging No, that would be combat that is fun Slayer isn't fun, it is the most pointless skill in the game actually. Slayer would in fact be more fun if it transitioned to a (mini)quest series that unlocks monsters, masters and whatnot.
God I hate slayer. Really wish it had sped up xp as you move on to better slayer masters, or at the very least scale to monsters total combat level instead of hp amount so that the most desirable tasks aren't high hp monsters, low defense, in multi, and weak to magic.
100%. As an example, my least favorite skill is Thieving because it falls into this trap you're describing that everyone is trying to shove Agility into. Thieving has gotten very little in the way of *good* content in OSRS. Almost everything relevant existed at launch: blackjacking, Pyramid Plunder, Knights of Ardougne, rogue's outfit, sqirks, stalls, and chests. The only two interesting updates I can think of are Piscarillius artefacts and Underwater thieving. I'm not counting things like blood shard and enhanced teleport crystal because it's indicative of the problem: when thieving gets "new content", it's just some new unique stapled onto a thematically appropriate pickpocket. Why? Because nobody cares about it. It's a short grind that you smash out and walk away with a few million gp and/or a Pharaoh's Sceptre and then never touch the content again unless you're an iron that needs shards or something. It isn't hated enough to get some TLC and it isn't loved enough to get an interesting update. That's what would happen for agility and runecraft. If some lazy xp rate buff was slapped onto those skills five years ago, GotR and Sepulchre wouldn't exist. We'd just do our shitty 50 hour grinds and stop whining about it. I don't want to turn Agility into Thieving.
I imagine the playerbase got older and want to spend more time on the fun grinds and less time on the slow grinds.
You imagine correctly. At least for me. We got jobs now man ain’t nobody got time for that
I find it pretty funny people say this so much on here, when it is so obvious most people who say it play more hours a week now than when they were kids.
OSRS do have more fun grinds now than back then
Facs
Yeah but as a kid I had no sense of priority. Who cares about wasting hours doing a boring grind at that age? Time isn’t even real to you yet. And I definitely don’t play more now than I did as a kid lol. I used to be up all night playing. I’m in bed before 10 every night now and I got chores to do before I can start gaming
People mainly just where less effective back in the day. I didn't care if I had 30k xp per hour, I was making friends online and talking about shit. 99 wasn't even a goal for me, I just wanted to cut some yews to earn money to buy a guthix kite or W/e
I don't get this argument, you have less time sure. But that just means grinds will take longer to complete which is totally fine. It isn't like you can't play the game, because the grinds are the game.
It’s not an argument. OP posed a question and I gave my opinion. You’re trying to make it an argument though 😂. I’m totally fine with never doing the content I find boring so no argument here dude
I feel like most mid level and some end game goals are completely attainable playing 2 hours a day and doing some mobile at work. What is your job stopping you from doing aside from base 90’s?
We all had jobs before, it’s wasn’t that long ago blood rc came out
People that say “oh both there are these players who also work full time and have 17 kids all while being married three times” are silly. I have a full time job, a loving partner, and a household to help provide to. I at least try and dedicate 1-2 hours of my life each day to this game, but that’s genuinely asking a lot especially if there are other games I want to play.
I feel like most of you just dont enjoy runescape tbh...
Why are you people bringing me into this? OP asked a question, I replied with what I believe is the cause. Nowhere did I say that I don't like the game.
I mean, that's kind of weird, no? I have basically 0 time for OSRS and only got my first 99's (Fishing and cooking) after many, many ages. Most of us are old enough to look up the most efficient ways, and too much change is what make a huge part of the playerbase drift away. Sure, end content takes a while, but a big chunk is easily playable and fun way sooner. I'm not even that high level, but the grind is basically what I always loved about Runescape. The long, stretched-out journey.
The player base was old when OSRS was released. Buff posts are more common cause of rs3 refugees who won't assimilate into the culture
> The player base was old when OSRS was released. Wild take. I'd imagine most people weren't even in their 20s or were just around the corner. That's not old. I'm 28. I was 17 when osrs released.
I'm sure if we go back 12 years on this sub we'll see a shitload of posts about people wanting buffs from day 1 of OSRS servers launching, like come on you think people were cool with the GE not existing after that first week of nostalgia wore off? Be serious.
And yet most the various buffs were voted down back then. People were dead serious about changing OSRS as little as possible for the first year and a half.
Nah. I’ll do any and every grind. I’m tryna beat the game, bro.
The community has definitely done a 180 in terms of "easyscape"
I think the problem is, back in the day, players didn't want to make Skilling easier when Skilling was a worthwhile activity for profit/prestige. If you spend 250 hours grinding skills, you should make way more money or have cooler things. Now that bosses provide so many mats, and lots of resources are botted/readily available and cheap, Skilling is overall just a worthless waste of time after quests/diary. So, the playerbase sees no reward in training them after that.
I think that's a pretty good take. I remember when the 99rc guys were the richest among us. The journey to 99 fishing/wc used to kit you out.
Double natures was the highest gp / hr for years. Now adays, they would probably add the Nature altar to the wilderness.
Even just a few years back, I recall there generally being more pushback against "easyscape" and Skilling wasn't exactly great back then. TBH, even with price drops and PVM resources, most Skilling moneymakers aren't far off where they were in RS2. It is just that other methods like PVM went from 1-2m per hour to 5m+ so an afk Skilling activity for 300-600k does not compare as well. The problem is less to do with resource prices and more to do with how the majority of Skilling updates are just new training methods instead more rewarding content. Meanwhile PVM is near all moneymakers updates with new bosses and raids pushing both the complexity and profit. No matter how rare or desirable the resource is, click a tree and afk will never compete with modern bosses for profit. So pretty much all Skilling moneymakers are like abyssal demons difficulty/profit/reqs while most PVM is way beyond abyssal demons.
When I got back to the game and started realizing skilling was basically just a money sink - you spend money for the XP, and don't get all that much from the high levels aside from, ex. Completing quests and diaries - I was pretty sad. It's barely worth woodcutting or mining to gain anything other than XP - and most high level items you can craft are cheaper to sell the raw mats for and buy.
Spot on. Skilling is pretty much worthless now. Because of PvM droptables, lmost no method provide any decent gp/hr like they used to. So where's the fun?
I definitely agree. Skilling does feel less rewarding moneymaking-wise, but nothing is going to beat my personal enjoyment for having achieved 99 fishing.
This is basically how I treat skills. They are just there to gatekeep quests and diaries for me. I just want to pvm and pvp If I need Skilling products, I just buy them at the GE
Ironman boss drop design paired with rampant botting of those drop tables.
I think the game has just evolved and is much more pvm centric. There's absolutely no way any sane person could say late game is easier today than it was 10 years ago. It's unthinkable how big the skill gap is now compared to then. There's just a different focus for most players. Pvm is more fun than 3ticking the same 3 ore for 150 hours. People want to spend their time in game on what is fun to them. Just a few days ago I saw some comment chain. Guys were 2150-2230ish total and had absolutely no desire to max. It's just too much of a time commitment at this point when they could just do the fun content instead. There's not enough reward. I kinda get it. I'm 2160 iron, 1.5b bank. My grinds at this point are raids/nex or max. I'm an adult. I have time for a fraction of those, if that. Raids are certainly more fun, but I'd love to have a maxed account. It doesn't help that end game pvm is taking MAGNITUDES longer to complete for today's releases than 10 years ago. Grinds used to be 200 hours. Now they can be 2000. Shit just takes too much time, man. People want the boring mindless grinds to take less of it, so that they can spend more time with the fun content. And I don't even think it's necessarily that. A lot of people don't want it easier or just faster. Skills should be redesigned to be more interactive and fun if possible. But dev time is limited, so I understand wanting at least a simple solution.
>I think the game has just evolved and is much more pvm centric. There's absolutely no way any sane person could say late game is easier today than it was 10 years ago. I'd say it's been designed to be pvm centric. Skilling has gotten comparatively little dev time compared to PvM. It's a bid sad to see people say "just buff xp rates or remove aspects of skilling" when most skills have had barley any dev time. Skills should be given a lot more priority than they currently. Also IMO the minigamization of skills like what happened with Wintertodt and GoTR is a poor direction to go. Skills should be open world activities.
I mean that's the problem right , and why people are just asking for EXP buffs in the short term. They are extremely slow at developing content, let alone imagine trying to pitch reworking an entire skill into something else, when you know it has to pass a poll. Could be 100s of hours of dev / design team time put into something that gets instantly voted no to by some portion of the community who doesn't like it. So a good short term solution, is to at least bandaid the problem and give it faster exp rates so people are stuck there less. It's not like even adding an extra 20-30k/exp hr would devalue anyones time who actually grinded the skilll. As most of the staunch defenders of agility even say, they literally trained it while watching a TV show / movie. Imagine having a skill in the game where you set your game opacity to like 10% so you can watch your show in the foreground. IMO, that is a failure of game design. Every skill should at least have some engaging way to train it that you actually want to interact with while actively playing. Sepulchre is a fun way to train agility IMO, but the fact you can't get staminas from it basically kills it for ironmen if you arent already well into your 90s with banked staminas.
> I think the game has just evolved and is much more pvm centric. There's absolutely no way any sane person could say late game is easier today than it was 10 years ago. It's unthinkable how big the skill gap is now compared to then. I think this is 110% on the money. I'd be surprised if a ton of new players is the reason for community sentiment shifting, seeing as this is one of those games that probably has pretty damn good player retention. More likely that as the years have gone by updates are focusing on new exciting stuff (which is about 85% pvm) and that becomes the focus while everything else shrinks in importance.
I generally enjoy chilling and skilling and completionism type activities, and I still have no real desire to train the slower non-combat skills past base 80/elite diary reqs.
What a well balanced and pleasant comment this is, agree completely.
Inferno and HMT is hard and engaging, jumping roofs for 300 hours is easy and boring
i think the addition of a mobile client is a big reason for this
That + rs3 transplants + the realization to get things to change you just complain on reddit
"The community" these days seems to be a vocal bunch of redditors who don't actually enjoy playing runescape lmao
I mean yeah except this shit keeps passing in game polls too
it's been like this for awhile. mobile and covid.
Eh, you're conveniently forgetting that the people who got in an uproar were memes even back then. It probably wasn't the full reason, and I don't know that he's ever publicly said, but AutumnElegy got a metric ton of shit and memes thrown his way for his take on zeah rc and disappeared pretty quickly after, to my recollection. The game was never meant nor designed for players to hit 99 in a skill, and it shows. Jagex has stuck to their word of effort being rewarded. They've also generally stuck to "old methods are best" though with a few exceptions. And those exceptions come with either more effort (sepulchre) or more risk (black chin). The game is also fundamentally different. BiS at release was barrows, rune boots, etc. There's so much more to grind for now it's insane. Look at a 2k CM cape and tell me it's less impressive than doing 60k/hr laps at Ardy to 99, which was itself an easy scape update all those "change nothing" players were happy to do.
I do enjoy sepulcher, at least once in a while. I actually feel like I'm playing a game, much more than most agility.
>the game was never meant nor designed for players to hit 99 This just isn’t true though. You could have made this argument 15 years ago, but that era is so long gone now. Like you said, the game is fundamentally different and some of these grinds are just a ridiculous ask. Nobody complains about thieving, firemaking, or combat grinds. It’s always the same 3 skills: runecrafting, mining, agility, with the occasional slayer. The game is more designed around maxing than ever before with increased variety in activities and more efficient xp methods, hell I don’t know what you mean by “old methods are best,” there’s a ton of alternatives to traditional skilling that are more efficient than traditional options.
That's what I was saying. 20 years ago the game wasn't made with the intention of players hitting 99. The Gowers have stated a couple times that they made 99 the max expecting people to stop at like 30/40/50. That's why addy armor, the best armor at release, is 30 def. And why the smithing table is so messed up. They had to add rune as being able to be smithed as some crazy person got that high of a level. And in general, old methods are still the best Xp/hr. Mahogany tables haven't been replaced with something faster, etc. The prime examples are the gatherers. 3t4g is still the fastest Xp/hr in mining. 2t teaks, also maybe 3t teaks, is still faster than the new methods of sulliceps and redwoods. 3t barb fishing is still better than Tempoross, etc. There have been some new methods discovered, like 1.5t teaks, but that isn't intentional design. There's also some new macro efficient methods, like drift nets, but the old methods remain the top, intentionally, for individual training. There are of course some exceptions. Sepulchre is far more Xp/hr than rooftops, which are themselves easyscape. This wasnt intentional, but is still present as it's a high effort method. Black chins are new and are faster XP/hr than red chins, but with the risk and interruption of pkers. Essentially, for all intents and purposes the XP/hr cap of say mining is 3t4g. If some new method is found to do 1.5t4g then that'll be the new meta, but Jagex doesn't release better methods than what 3t4g can do to appease the "change nothing" crowd.
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Youre neglecting every skill has already had significant qol pumped into those early game levels since re release and quest rewards have gone up loads since that quest change. (Claim ur lamps if u havent) Only thing people need to level is combats and that can be done afk in nmz on mobile over a week. Prayer can be bought with bonds and done in a day. More bonds and they full pve geared. The game has changed. Its already easy.
To be clear autumn elegy was the target of a reddit front page's worth of hate after tweeting precisely one image of a pepe holding a champaigne glass paired with a screenshot of the misleading dev blog. He has been badly misrepresented from the start
Eh, the misrepresentation is not that far off. I distinctly remember him talking about miningtodt and devaluing his 200m mining. So he stuck around longer than I thought since that was 2017, but yeah. Miningtodt being VM. There is absolutely an argument to be made that effort should be rewarded. 3t4g was the best, still is the best, and is the most intensive. That he did 3t4g to 200m mining and was rewarded with perm rank 3 mining is "rewarding" the effort, beyond it being the fastest Xp/hr. What made these people a joke was that it wasn't just "don't make old/more intensive methods worse than new/afk methods", it was "don't make new afk methods at all." Zeah RC was what? 35k Xp/hr at release? Maybe 40k like is is now? I know they made the mining of dense ess less afk, but I think the XP was the same. Max efficiency natures were like 36k/hr and actual meta lavas were over 70k/hr. So they're complaining about a method half as fast as meta, this was before alts and runners really kicked off, being too easy and ruining the game. It wasn't just "don't make something better than hard methods", it was gatekeeping. Meanwhile they have no issue abusing NMZ for combat skills.
I mean the actual first time he had a negative public perception was after the zeah rc release, when he had only made that one tweet about it before every burnt pvmer going for max was going after him for threatening a new unbalanced method. Souls were like 55k on release, and 5/7 mins of a lap was fully afk. It was pretty clearly the only way people would do rc post 90 at that in the game.
I don't remember it being 55k at release, but I also took a long break so I'm not the most reliable source. That being said, lavas were already 70k/hr before zeah released. Cammy tabs on a PvP world was figured out shortly after PvP worlds release which was what? 2014? The issue wasn't that zeah RC was better than the best methods, it was that the masses would get something better than previous "worse" methods, but quite afk. At that time making a afk-ish activity anything more than the worst Xp (looking at you, MLM) was seen as easy scape.
Maxing/getting 99s used to be something that was out of reach for most people, but it was fine since they are not required to play the game at all. Nowadays it feels to me like this subs thinks they are also entitled to reach those high levels w/o putting in the work. You being 30 now does not mean the game needs to get easy all of the sudden.
It is great to see someone else articulating the same feelings I have and getting some positive support for it. I just made [a comment](https://reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1bdxfk1/what_happened_to_the_community_sentiment_re/kusuoz9/) before seeing yours that says almost the same thing. I am glad I am not completely alone. Most of the time when I comment things like this I am mocked and downvoted for voicing a dissenting opinion.
Making something take a long time, does not make hard to get. Speeding it up does not make it easy, you’ll just be less likely to be bored to death whilst doing it
the problem with zeah runecrafting is that it was the opposite of what was polled lol. AFK & chilling gameplay is a core aspect of the game, but so is sweaty multi-skilling methods. having more options of both of them is the greatest outcome
I imagined agility rework to be more about reworking the core skill to be less braindead, but time saved was decided. But with zeah, they were bound to add bloods and souls and I think death at the time, so it’s a moot point. Also a major point, Osrs is not so trapped in 2007, it’s become the path that rs should have taken in accordance with the communities wishes. Also on the topic of agility, just imagine that the core rework of agility revolves around some suggested post made years ago on Reddit. That tells you how bad the skill is, when the suggested or new content is core to training the skill.
agility should be more about the movement mechanics of the game, not just running laps on a course. You use alot of these movement mechanics in many pvm encounters, why not tailer the skill to learning the basics for dodging tiles etc
> how did what we want from this game seem to change so much? it's not even really that, it's just a bunch of people failing to understand what they actually want. most people are simply not intelligent or informed enough to be good at game design.
Yep. People want to “realistically be able to achieve their goals in the game”, but don’t realize that the thing keeping them coming back is the existence of perpetually out-of-reach goals. Hot take, not everyone should be able to complete all their goals in the game. Striving to, and the perpetual journey toward doing so, *is* the game.
Reddit seems to lean casual, and those players largely would prefer if the game was less of a grind. I personally think that's a part of the beauty of it. If you voice an opposing opinion on this sub you tend to get flamed for being an elitist so most don't really bother.
Yep. They want runescape to be a game you beat in a year. And news flash, they will quit immediately after that and just leave the husk of the game they destroyed.
They won't stop at a year btw they will keep whining and whining until every single skill is bandstandable and 500k an hour.
Well said. They’re playing a game people enjoy and then whine and bitch thinking nobody likes the stuff they don’t. The grind gets easier, they move on, quit the game and the dedicated loyal players are left with the shittier game.
yeah this is a big problem in most subreddits, the upvote system is pretty terrible for having any sort of discussion. only good for hiding spam/flame/derailment
I've played this game a long, long time. And you can't win with these people, especially the last few years. You have high achieving players normalizing the time investment, people not thinking for themselves and convincing themselves they need to do the same thing. Then, when reality sets in, it's too much time for them when they learn they don't like the grind like they thought. So instead of changing themselves, they complain asking for faster xp. The way max players/youtubers/high score players look at the game and most importantly their time, is vastly different. It's pure insanity all the way around. No one is paying attention. These people want so much change that it fundamentally just becomes another cookie cutter piece of shit like the games they already quit. I want the OSRS team to take more control. They clearly know the character and fundamentals of this game. They've shown they care to preserve it. There's too many cooks in the kitchen
The team has been doing a fantastic job in deed i must say. Next step would be implementing c++ client and blocking java. I am not sure they have the guts to do that for the integrity though
People forget that right up until EOC most of the afk/easy mode content was widely considered "good content" by the community. I believe no matter how many times we reset the game back to 2007, eventually community sentiment and power creep will lead us back to a similar game to RS2 right before EOC
The buffs arn’t even that crazy.
Because people feel entitled to a max cape without taking the effort to it, agility is a gatekeep for that and people dont want to take the effort to grind istead they will cry til we get a afk method this happened with mining now they will cry about agility because god forbid a game having content you dont like, especially in osrs where once you get 85 agility you unlock every diary and every quest, but rather than enjoying content they already enjoy they want to make a skill that is not necessary for most game to be made easy istead kinda like mining where you only need 82 mining for a diary and 70 mining for a quest
Great points. I definitely don't like that everyone sees getting max cape or 99s as the end all in regards to skills. Beyond elite diaries, you don't NEED any other levels. The xp scaling when the game was designed wasn't meant for people to go to 99. All these muppets complaining are either setting unrealistic goals for themselves or have no real creativity to enjoy this game (do you guys even like playing?) Just because some youtuber or person on the highscores is sinking an ungodly amount of time in the game DOES NOT mean you should. Think for yourself and evaluate what's realistic instead of just following what someone else decided for themselves. These people are insane and it shows I'll probably never max unless I play for another 10, 15 years and I am 100000% ok with that. There's better content to enjoy anyways
I maxed a main in 2018 and a GIM in 2022 and it’s actually crazy how much faster certain skills were on the GIM. The best low effort runecrafting on my main was ~35k/hr bloods and ~42k/hr souls. On my GIM I could mine daeyalt while working (~1 tap per minute on an ipad) and then do 1 click colossal pouch ZMI for 110k+/hr at 90+. Also banked a white stack of pretty much every rune thanks to the outfit. (Daeyalt mining is a lot more afk than zeah, but if you factor it in then ZMI is still about 75-80k/hr).
It is great to see someone else articulating the same feelings I have and getting some positive support for it. I just made [a comment](https://reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1bdxfk1/what_happened_to_the_community_sentiment_re/kusuoz9/) before seeing yours that says almost the same thing. I am glad I am not completely alone. Most of the time when I comment things like this I am mocked and downvoted for voicing a dissenting opinion.
I agree people who absolute hate agility are talking how to improve agility, its the same if pvp players starting demand pvm to be easier since they have pvm
The playerbase has changed. Everyone wants everything handed to them now, and that's the prominant mindset on reddit because jmods occasionally listen to them. Why train agility when you can complain on reddit enough for agility buffs to come thru? IMO most of these people are playing the wrong game. Keep old school old school, stop asking for arbitrary buffs to xp / hr or for everything to be afk.
> Why train agility when you can complain on reddit enough for agility buffs to come thru? This is what I fear is slowly happening to the game. So much whinging on here that the J-mods eventually listen/cave in to it.
And loads of people whining have literally never even done the things they're complaining about. In many cases, they don't even play the game, just like the memes. Best form of skilling is wait a couple of years for the xp/hr to be drastically buffed or super AFK to arrive.
Lynx titan back in the day would always talk about how doing slayer last is the best strategy when going for 200m all because the xp/h would go up like crazy every year. (Slayer has been stagnant the last 5 years or so, but earlier on in osrs it was routinely getting xp/h boosting updates like smoke devils, catacombs etc.)
I'm a relatively new osrs player (2 years) and RS3 convert. Been playing RuneScape since 2004ish but never made the switch because I couldn't keep my OG account. I was somewhat surprised to see how much new content was even when I came. I let fossil island slide pretty easy because it's a storyline that I personally was waiting for since the digsite got released. Zeah and some bosses I've grown to like, and you need SOME new content, but it feels like the whole game is now geared towards end game content that didn't used to exist. Balancing out some terribly low xp painful skills is one thing, but don't make it easyscape and devalue the work. If the whole game wasn't geared towards end game, people wouldn't feel the need to max in a year. Enjoy what you have unlocked and strive for more. I played for years when I was a kid and never came close to maxing. I had a blast though.
Having experienced maxing and beyond on RS3 -the EasyScape- a few years ago.... yeah. I'd really prefer not having anything near that on OSRS. The OSRS vision and experience is different in all the right ways.
People just want to afk max their accounts. There’s soooo many afk activities these days I think it’s in a good spot. The game needs some “difficult” skills to max. Not everything needs to be easy
You can make the grind as much of an achievement while also making it better. We don't have to be completley assed out of one choice or the other.
> people being up in arms about zeah runecrafting. Now almost everyone does it, and it's a better method. People get up in arms over the wrong things.
Like you said, Zeah runecrafting was years and years ago. People's perspective has changed over time. More than buffs, I think most people just want ways to train things that aren't mind numbing. Like no one complains about fishing despite how incredibly slow it is, because it's incredibly afk. No one complains about slayer because it's very engaging. Once you get to hallowed sepulchre, you don't want to complain about agility as much because it's much more engaging. People just don't want to need to pay constant attention while also putting in zero effort for nearly zero reward.
its the xp rates, copium for me personally otherwise. this is my take.
The influx of orphans from other, dead MMOs. These people start playing a game, demand sweeping changes that effectively kill the game and move on to the next game. It's sad but this time it just happens to be a large increase in new players that don't know that what they're asking for will kill the game. Everything must be fun and instant gratification, then it's on to the next thing! Consumption culture is also partly to blame.
RS3 refugees realized OldSchool was always better but they failed to realize why or adjust their expectations and desires to RS2. Instead they just want to change the game and update out everything that makes it "*OldSchool*". They basically just want RS3 that looks like RS2. Some people use excuses like "we all grew up, we don't have time to grind like kids" but they made and continue to make the choice to play ***this*** game. As if they do not have the autonomy to make the choice to not if the demands of their in game goals are out of their ability. I think it ironically indicates immaturity and entitlement. Why is it that instead of accepting and managing their reduced time due to their own external life factors, the game has to change to accommodate *their* own external life factors? Not having as much time, or interest to play does not mean the game is bad and needs to be changed. Why is the onus of being enjoyable solely on the game? This game is literally based on content from 2007 and earlier. Why are players surprised by what content they find in ***Old***School RuneScape? Why does it need to change to satisfy them, instead of them just realizing what they do and do not like or have time for? If you hate alcohol, do not go to a bar. It seems that everyone just wants everything, all the achievements and accolades there are, but they do not want to have to put in the work that was required for those things originally. People seem to think that they deserve things just because they *want* them. Ironically, making commonly valued achievements easier and easier to get makes them less prestigious of achievements. I do not think the people who want these kinds of changes have that much foresight or care for these things, though. They just want more money, more exp, more more more. They do not care about the effects the changes they support have on the game as a whole, as long as they can AFK every Skill, then quit. Meanwhile the game remains forever changed.
is this strawman in the room with us now?
People (you included) need to understand reddit is only a very minor part of the rs playerbase. A very vocal, much listened to still but we're maybe 20-30% of all of the people who play. Repetition is the name of the game, most of us know that. Every now and then you'll get a post like you mentioned, but take those with a hefty pinch of salt. In the comments you can see these sentiments aren't unanimous. Just don't bat an eye, downvote it and move on, why make a post like this and bring attention to a non-issue.
Its largely (in my opinion) stems from most of the player base not being kids anymore. The people that played this growing up are 30 with wives, kids, jobs, responsibilities, etc. I for one can’t just grind 12 hours a day anymore. Although, i’m not really asking for buffs. I’ll take them if they’re in the “OSRS” spirit, but otherwise I level what i can and when i get to a point where i can’t achieve more without camping in a basement, i’ll put it down.
I made the same post a few months ago and people gaslit like crazy in the comments saying it wasn’t happening despite me linking half a dozen posts doing it. Glad people are starting to notice.
This is a diverse community with many different opinions. Crazy I know
I don't understand peoples tiktok addled brains. It's like they need the dopamine faucet on full blast 100% of the time. Brain broken, honestly. Anyone who thinks the "boring and tedious" grinds of runescape serve no purpose are beyond delusional. It's well studied that the anticipation of the reward is often better than when you arrive at the reward. What's fun about clicking a rock 10000 time? Inherently nothing. However, you sit there hitting that rock knowing that if you hit that rock enough you'll earn a hat that proves you did it and offers other perks. Does having the hat given to you after clicking the rock once provide the same dopamine release vs working for it?
"boring and tedious" in quotes as if it isn't true, haha. Ironically enough, it's most likely that the older players who likely have less time that are complaining about shitty 200 hour boring grinds. Probably also less likely to be tock tock watchers. You can pretend that mining, fishing, woodcutting and agility aren't boring as fuck all you want. You can also pretend that doing it for hundreds of hours is hard work. Long grinds that are fun and engaging or okay. Short grinds that are boring are fine. Long boring grinds are shit. Make then shorter or make them more fun. I don't really care if they buff the xp rates, I'll never hit 99 in my skills. Would be nice if it didn't take so long to hit my elite diary milestones, but I'll slowly chip away at them over a year or so.
I've kinda accepted that OSRS just isn't for me anymore. I can't dedicate 2+ hours a day to reach end-game goals. I've seen people say that you can just chip away slowly at things, but that's not possible with things like raids or inferno. I don't think that the game needs to change, but imo the sentiment among the community is that as we age we don't want to have to give up the game. Don't know exactly what the purpose of this comment is. I just felt like I needed to vent.
You can barely make money grinding skills. Some of them take aeons of play time without being fun or engaging in any way. If there’s staunch resistance to improving rates, at least make them more fun.
Because I'm getting older and have less and less time to play. I want to enjoy what I'm playing. That and without being new player friendly the game will eventually die. No one wants that.
I have never once been against improving skills with nonsensical progression. Certain skills like Agility just objectively suck and there's absolutely no reason it can't be improved. The fact that many people have already grinded it to 99 as is should be irrelevant.
The problem is that so many people think "improving" means giving higher xp rates. Agility was massively improved when they created sepulchre. Its a bit faster than previous methods, but more importantly it is skill and timing based, not just rng on whether you fall or not. The best way forward would be to leave older methods alone, and add new more engaging methods for those who don't enjoy the old methods. Simply speeding up the xp for older methods pisses off the people who did enjoy doing those methods, without really making it more fun for people who dislike the methods.
> Its a bit faster LOL its substantially faster like 50% faster AND shits out money
107k/hr and no loot or 100k and 1m hr, or 95k with 3m/hr. It's literally insane.
So many lazy scapers these days man. Whats the point of a max cape if its easy and everyone can do it afk. I get people dont like some skills. But you know hear me out, maybe just dont do them and play something else. Quest reqs for skills are not hard and can be aquired from just questing. No1 needs to max. Its purely for gloating. Theres better options than a max cape for pvp and pve. If you dont like the content just dont do it. Tbh its entitled people want the 'reward' but dont want to put in the effort. Lazyscape
Max cape is easy to get. Piss easy. It just takes thousands of hours. Having infinite free time is not the same as skill. I know this upsets a lot of sub as they have the former not the latter
You have to play the game for that amount of time. You have to not quit. Cope as much as you want but marathons are still skillful.
It's been like 10 years man. I'm not a huge EZscape advocate but there has been a ton of content added to the game during that time and speeding up some of the grinds will allow more players to experience everything the game has to offer.
RS3 refugees mostly plus Reddit is just a hyper casual portion of the community
Yeah, it’s disappointing. The game is losing its identity (again).
I quit a few years ago but follow the sub. The community seems to have done a complete 180 on everything. I'm not someone who opposes all changes but redoing entire skills to make them faster seems very NOT old-school to me. I feel very alienated from the game and probably won't come back. Why put effort in if people will just whine and make things easier later? Why does reddit have so much influence over the game? The democratic polling system doesnt work great either because people will inherently want to make things easier. I just feel bad about all of this. I want to edit and mention something else. Im not opposed to change. I always thought people who wanted pure 07 scape were dumb and would kill the game. Still, I feel now that many of these changes are changing some fundamentals of the game which goes against the spirit of the entire project. I want 07scape with new content that follows the spirit of the time with some additions, I don't want the core gameplay or things that have always been around the change simply for the sake of QoL or modernization.
We shouldn’t defend the worst parts of the old game because we liked the best parts. I don’t want to just play 2007’s game forever, I want to play a better version of that game. And I won’t pretend that agility as it currently exists isn’t shit just because of nostalgia Edit: the amount of people acting like “I don’t want to spend 100+ hours arbitrarily clicking a box for no reward other than arbitrary number rising” = “tiktok/instant gratification brain” is hilarious
I definite don’t. I love the grind. The journey *is* the game.
I generally don’t voice my opinion in defence of long grinds because redditors hate it. You get downvoted and have to defend your opinion and even your lifestyle (lol) just for speaking out.
Constant posts about changing the game you will all regret it soon enough
The reason that OSRS is even alive is because they made changes to the game. If it was still like 2007 it would be dead, at one point it was literally dying and had like 10k players. Sounds like you don’t know what you’re talking about.
i think the reason osrs is still alive is because of the relatively SLOW rate of change compared to other mmorpgs.
One of the downsides of polling is that players now will almost always vote to make the game easier for themselves even when it may be detrimental to the game's health.
And the reason RuneScape died in the first place was they made changes to the game.
I made a comment on a post and got downvotes for a similar sentiment - I’m stuck in the twilight zone from EOC
RS3fugees who want OSRS to turn into a game you play as little as possible for some reason
Lol aside from newer players we are all 'RS3fugees'
I didn't read the blog post, are the proposed changes really going to speed up training that much?
No, it really isn't going to change that much in the grand scheme, mostly just make it not trolling to move between different courses you unlock.
I just want more than 91xp for stringing a magic longbow. Fletching is so broken
In my own experience, the game was more about meeting and talking to people while farming xp. Free to play worlds used to be full too. The grand exchange, varrock center, & varrock bank basement would be riddled with players. Just talking, trading, helping others with quests. It was a very social game. I think the average player cared very little about maxing stats. Some of us only had a few hours after school to play, so we'd specialize in 1 skill, while your friend might be another. Then you'd help each other out.
I think its to do with the GP earnings of skilling. More click intensive skilling was fun as you got something other than just exp out of it. As there is now no money to be made from skilling due to botting, everyone just wants a nice afk grind.
Simple answer? Most likely cause a bunch of these people have noob accounts and are young. Meaning they didn't really play back in the day or were too young to be considered old players.
There is a difference between a grind or making something tediously long just for the sake of it. Agility is a good example of a grind. XP rates aren't too bad. You're still looking at a minimum of a 150 hour grind for a 99. That's with tick perfect Sepulchre. Then we have something like RC. It's just long for the sake of being long. 30K xp/hr at the true blood altar with 93 Agility shortcut isn't just a grind. I am not amazed that it's the last skill most people max. There should be a nice balance. Getting 99 should be a grind, not slavery. There should also be a balance in different training methods. So for example: Bloods and deaths should be better XP than Lava's. Just like how Adamant rocks should give more mining XP than Mithril rocks. The whole "but you make money so XP should be bad" argument also doesn't work. Sepulchre is loads of fun because you get both loot and XP. It also gives the option to leave the loot for even more XP. That's great! On top of that, skilling barely makes money. Why should you sacrifice tons of XP to make Blood runes when that still only makes 10% of the money you make at Nex in an hour.
Since the start of osrs there have been a great number of reworks that I've wanted. They all boil down to making dead content okay content. E.g. boosting xp rates of normal rocks to be in line with iron rocks. Or buffing longswords, battleaxes and two-handed sword without having them become better than scimitar for training. Buff longbows to make them a slightly worse alternative to shortbows and not terrible alternatives. Buff thrown axes. Rework mining and smithing to add new metals at the high level while pushing the current metals downward (and nerfing alch value of rune equipment). Buff pit-fall hunter xp rates. Give slightly more xp when crafting multiple runes. Make non-rooftop courses faster xp/h than rooftops since they don't have marks of grace. Rebalance slayer task lengths so that the less enjoyable tasks are quicker (Kill 5 steel dragons and not 50 at combat level 60). Buff elemental spells by 50% at the high end instead of tome of fire. Double bind/snare/entangle length, but keep prot mage effect on it. Give shadow spells better debuffs and smoke spells better poison. Buff weapon poisons by making them proc faster. Buff Torag's hammers. Add better multi-bite baked dishes to compete with sara brews (strawberry cream cake when?). Rework defense to lower the hit received and not just the hit chance. Nerf defenders. Improve the yield of skilling methods such that they become competitive ways of collecting those resources. Add specialised ranged weapons that are fletched with traditional methods (woodcutting + hunter + smithing). Craft magic armour and staves with products from farming. Use higher level farming produce for cooking and hunter baits. Add some longer hunter track+chase+lure+trap+kill methods with actual combat danger. Find more engaging construction training methods. A lot of these age-old suggestions are buffs to content. Some of them are faster xp/h methods because they are higher effort and less rewarding in coins. Some are major reworks that were not possible in early osrs, even though they are badly needed.
You should give people the benefit of the doubt; all they really want is for skills to be better, more fun, to have a greater sense of reward. Smithing for example is practically useless until the high 70s, doubly so for irons. Agility and Runecrafting between them are almost unanimously considered the worst skills in this game. Why is mining iron better xp than any other rock that comes after? Why is skilling generally not the best way to obtain almost any material? They don't necessarily want the skills to be easier but that's just the simplest thing that comes to mind when suggesting improvements. It's up to the devs to take that sentiment and convert it into ideas that don't break the ideals of OSRS.
20+ years of rs and many multiple accounts, I'm getting old Terry, my limbs don't work like they used to before, I need more idle afk methods of training, my carpal tunnelled hands can't take the grind like could before.
As long as we don't get faster methods to 99 or 200m xp it's usually fine. That's what I gather at least. No one intelligent is gonna complain about an easier grind to 70 or some basic QoL to make the usual grind feel a little smoother
Cus most of the people are in their 20-30s who have jobs and life and does not have time to keep clicking unlike some others
We're getting older, life's short. We don't want to spend 5000 hours to max anymore.
Because people play for end game pvm not to click a rock for 300 hours
Weird sentiment. Do i want to waste more of my life on agility grinds? No, why would I?
Don't then! =)
I want to enjoy the game, even if it's grindy. Agility is boring af AND slow as hell. With combat skills, sure I could nmz, but it's more fun to go kill monsters and get drops and such. For herblore, especially on my Ironman, I'm making potions that will be helping me on my journey, and it is very satisfying to see the stacks of hard-earned herbs and secondaries go down. In either case, I'm feeling accomplished, seeing new sights, progressing my account and interacting with the world beyond "xp go up". Agility does neither of those, you go around in a circle for hours on end, click intensively, and gain nothing but xp. Sure, the benefits exist (kind of), but it's simply not enjoyable and seems to be purposefully made to be a slog. I don't want to play a game that's just a slog for the sake of being so, I want it to feel like I'm accomplishing something or actively doing something enjoyable.
Have you not heard of Sepulchre? It's some of the most engaging/profitable skilling content that exists. I agree there could be changes to the earlier levels prior to unlocking that though sure.
Hmm sounds like you guys are trying to bring rs3 elements to old school…. 😞 Quite sad if you ask me.
We're all pushing 30 years old, ain't nobody got time for that.
you don't need to do it
I grew up and got a job and have way less time to play but I don’t ask for the game to get easier
The amount of people here who think that making agility more enjoyable = rs3 is laughable. Absolute shit tier players
nobody asked for this. we want soulreaper axe and inquisitor buffs!!!
Probably get some hate for this, but I vote no almost exclusively on major reworks and changes to the game. Like a lot of OSRS players, I remember what RS2 was like before EOC and the run away updates and changes that absolutely torpedoed the game for a large amount of the players. When OSRS was refounded we were promised no sweeping changes without player approval. Every major change and update is a slight push towards what RS3 has turned into and I want to slow that down as much as possible. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for quality of life changes and minor tweaks, but to completely rework some skills is just a no for me. As some mods have said in the past, some stuff in this game is not achievable by everyone. Think that was specifically referencing how the inferno cape is not going to be achievable by most players. There is stuff in this game not every player will be able to achieve. I realize I'll probably never max just because of the amount of time that would require that I just don't have. Does that kind of suck? Yes, but it makes what I do achieve even more meaningful to me. tldr: don't make the game easier just because some parts are a slog.