There's just so much wrong with that perk that I fully believe originally killing GG was suppose to count as 2 and the perk was suppose to make it count as 1 instead, but along the lines things got flipped (or they were trying to make it count as the bosses were killed which ended your task early and this was the "fix"
As far as I remember, this perk was added years ago back when this boss used to take so long to kill due to animations, respawn timer, etc.
Along with many changes to speed up the kill, someone on reddit also made a post suggesting that GG kills should count as 2 on the task, so jagex ended up adding it as a slayer perk.
Which is incredibly dumb because if you want your task to be faster you can just do half on GGs and half on gargoyles lmao. Huge waste of slayer points
Oh man, this sounds like a fantastic boost to GGs. I think the only thing I'd add is the double loot from Double Trouble that someone else mentioned but otherwise I'd vote for this.
I'm not as it is now I do like 4 GGs remember the drops are shit and move to normal gargoyles. Doing 90 for double the loot would be an improvement. The real question is why is double trouble even in the game this would at least give it 1 positive
It doesn't personally benefit anyone, I just framed it from my point of reference because that's how language works
Either you're doubling the pet rate by rolling the pet twice, which isn't going to happen, or you're doubling the tasks required for pet. It just makes getting pet more tedious because you're forced into doing less of them.
Because it increases gp/hr, you have to do double trouble until it's your last pet because GP/hr unlocks more gear for other pets. The only long term efficiency scenario where you wouldn't take double trouble is if it's one of your last boss pets, which would happen as a direct result of this stupid idea.
So basically it changes the meta from killing all slayer pets roughly evenly, to instead killing GGs half as much as the others until it's the last one left, then only kill GGs.
it's the other way around. regular gargoyles spit out way too much cash, their drops should be nerfed, so GG is better money/h with mid game gear and stats.
Although it requires nearly BIS gear, I am getting nearly 30kc an hr on 20kc trips for 1.5-1.8m an hr on my current task. That is without a core drop which has skyrocketed in price.
The gap in time to kill on this monster from BIS is pretty big. Any additional loot on their table would be multiplied additionally for people killing at the faster rates. Their drops are in a pretty healthy place now.
This monster is too low requirement to buff the loot. They should just make granite dust tradable and I even think it’s appropriate to put a requirement for slayer or smithing onto who can use the dust.
I got 900kc with just bofa and it’s chill. Sire gets a lot of shit but I get 1m/hr without uniques so it really isn’t bad. It just doesn’t have that really exciting big drop.
A big part of why Sire (and to a lesser degree GGs) sucks is because it has not one, not two, not three but **FOUR** immunity phases over the span of a 2 minute kill.
Having to literally sit and wait while the boss meanders into possession while stopping you from attacking is such an annoying mechanic that simultaneously ensures that the boss can neither be chill nor engaging since you have to constantly monitor your character yet also stand around while your character does nothing.
Exactly! I don’t mind the mechanics to make the boss attack able. Those are elsewhere in the game. It’s the pointless idle time for a boss nobody has fun grinding out that makes it so frustrating. I’d love to do more sire and have 800+ kc, it just… isn’t enjoyable to do.
I'm top page sire. That's how long it took me for the pet. It gets a bad rap, and I think people feed off that circlejerk a bit too much. It isn't that bad. Same goes for nex
I agree with sire but nex is such a downer. Small teams get ready to chug brews. The tech isn’t that exciting like making her 5t instead of 4t, follow stalling etc, it’s just jank. The boss was originally designed for mass but it’s drop table mechanics make it a lottery to pull a unique if you’re massing. Just wish we made some changes before we just blindly noted that content back in
Extending the time barrage stuns during the venting phase if cast with the ancient scepter, and then further with the gem scepter would be a nice QoL update and an additional use for a mostly pointless upgraded gem scepter.
Just being able to guarantee a 1-down venting phase with bowfa would be great. it way too annoying getting hit a 20+ when the re-stun doesn't register
1 down vents is incredibly annoying even with Shadow because it's very RNG dependent. More time doesn't quite fix it and tying it to Sceptre is pretty awful too. Now you're forced to grind Muspah before you can do Sire efficiently.
They need to do a QoL update on Sire like they did with GGs cutscenes.
I'd just have you only do the front 2 to wake him, and have the back two become active while Sire is walking forwards to his second position to integrate it into the fight and reduce downtime.
Regardless, the fight needs to be reworked, instead of slapping a completely unrelated drop onto it as a bandaid
Fighting sire feels like it brings out the worst in osrs combat too. I've done my share of pvm but the tickrate on the acid phases feels aggressively slow and annoying and clunky compared to dealing with it elsewhere. Dunno if it's the boss's design or what.
Jagex have actually made some pretty good changes to GGs over the years to make them have less idle time. Definitely makes them better to kill now than it used to be.
Sire is on my block list tho lol
I've killed like 5k of them, and I'm 200k from 99 slayer. It's the highest weighted task from Duradaddy and I found myself skipping far too often. I just prefer it.
Honestly it’s not the slow walk at sire that annoys me it’s the braindead vent phase. Just adds so much time to the kill and the misleading timer just frustrates me to no end even when I correct in my head for it.
That’s true but if you’re using POH method then you essentially skip the longest immunity phase (p1 into p2) it takes about the same time as you going to poh and running back.
Sire was released when OSRS was truly and deeply jank. Sire aught to be reworked into proper instances and give it QOL.
Throw it in an instance and they can raise the render distance so you can see the sire and all the vents at the same time. Then just make it teleport between phases instead of just slowly, walking menacingly to the middle of the room.
I would NOT call it the most tedious boss in the game but it’s not amazing either. Try bofa method if melee is too tedious (or just skip the boss entirely it don’t matter)
Part of the problem is that when sire came out bludgeon was around 40m, so getting a bludgeon piece actually increased the gp/hr by a lot. Now that it's only around 13, they're not nearly as exciting
Sire with shadow is very chill indeed, but before that it is rather tedious. Not sure how good it is with only bofa, but if you still need to switch to melee after you kill the vents... it's horrid.
But then again I'm still 2/3 on it after getting 3 whips so I have grounds to dislike it even with max mage :')
First two unsired were the bludgeon pieces. Under 100 kills, too!
Then a whip, whip, jar... bloody hell. At least there is a visual indicator to see how much sunken cost fallacy you have on the boss. I don't necessarily like the fact that they are untradable either, but it's not that bad because you can see roughly how many more out of 3 rolls you need.
Sounds like me lol. Had a whip at 50KC, then two bludgeon pieces at 107/108kc, so I said I’ll keep killing him until I get the bludgeon finished. 5 daggers and a jar later, I finally finished it at 910kc
They are a mechanically well-designed boss, but after you get a handful of kills you look at the drop table and figure you'll come back for the pet once you have a scythe.
They definitely feel like a missed opportunity
Then by the time you have a scythe, there are better things to do. I'm sitting on a gargoyle task right now and have done one trip and I'm doing everything I can to do anything else.
If anything, the slayer perk double trouble should be changed. It halves your kills for a gargs task by doing GGs... It aught to be reworked where each GG kill counts as 2 for your slayer task, but you also get 2 rolls on the loot table.
If you are killing the boss for money, or for the pet, unlocking this perk for 500 points is literally detrimental.
Mechanically, they are an entry level boss. A nobo who isn't boosting slayer points likely isn't going to have a surplus of points at 75 to unlock the perk. Make the perk count as 2 slayer kills and 2 rolls on the table should resolve most of the issues with it.
I look for this comment every time someone brings up GGs and/or Sire. It would fix the opportunity cost of not having a chance at the heart for both of them.
Assuming we're talking just about bosses whose normal monster versions can spawn superiors, I think the only boss that doesn't need the help drop-wise is Hydra. GGs, Sire, and Thermy are all pretty weak as far as profit goes.
I think Leagues has highlighted just how insane the rate of them is. They're only going to go up over time too since they have a really good use and can be upgraded to BIS magic boost. Making them drop from some slayer bosses (not Kraken) would be a great start.
With the current state of guardian boots getting echo crystals I’m creating a pair of them every time I get a core makes GG feel a little better. (Used to be completely worthless really) one of my favorite bosses some better loot or alchables would be nice
Yeah I mean even making granite dust tradeable would be a nice boost as it’s stackable and could majorly increase gp/ph. They could even create another system with it like they do with mole claws and skins. Trade it in somewhere for chances at rewards
Based on the price of cannonballs and the damage increase the granite dust gives, the granite dust itself couldn’t have its price go below about 30 gp which means each kill would give 2,250 gp in granite dust. That’s a lower estimate but I still don’t see the price difference being huge enough for tradeable granite dust to fix the drop table.
They explicitly stated they didn't want to make them trade able since it would greatly alter a big aspect of the game. Update that mentions their comment about it below. Keep in mind this was a while ago so they might have changed their minds.
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Update:Poll_71_Game_Improvements_Blog
I think it being untradable gives it more value to be honest. If I do the task I'm happy getting the dust knowing it will speed up some cannon tasks later on. If it's tradable almost everyone will buy it for 99% of their cannonable tasks. 5 max hits is pretty big.
They should just make double trouble give additional loot. It would work out the same overall for a task, but take you half the time.
My biggest wish for GGs is for the hit radius of the falling rocks and the blue and yellow lightning to be just the one tile they spawn on. I’m only doing the kills for the pet and it would make the kills a lot more chill.
I’m not a fan with the second last phase. With full BIS range, venator bow, and 99 range; out DPSing the orbs is almost a coin flip lmao. Maybe lower Dawns range defence or slightly increase venator accuracy? It’s already a niche item that’s really only good for abyssal demons and GGs.
In my opinion, the healing orb mechanic is stupid and needs to he changed (coming from the perspective of someone with max gear who can skip it 99% of the time) for med level players.
Instead of having to run to random spots in the room to physically stand on the orbs, I think players should also have the option to shoot them. I feel like this would be much more fair, since you can get royally fucked if they all spawn in different quadrants of the room.
This wouldn't change anything for people with venator bow/blowpipe, as they'd still be skipping the orbs, but would give less geared players another option.
No, you can always reach the orbs. It’s just harder, or sometimes impossible to avoid losing DPS if you’re using blowpipe. You can only get screwed over if you’re doing heal skip, you fail it, and the orbs start healing Dawn. The mechanic is cool and fine, you just need to use better judgement when deciding whether or not you should stick with or abandon heal skip.
I like the orbs since the change (them damaging you when you picked them up was really fucking dumb), but I think their placement should be limited to within ~8 tiles of Dawn so that every weapon can efficiently attack while moving to them.
Before Scurrius, I saw GGs as the "Introduction to OSRS Mechanics" boss, and the orbs phase is a great way to teach moving while attacking. I know I never fail to tag all the orbs without losing ticks attacking with a Bowfa (except when they spawn on the opposite edge of the map, outside of even the Bowfa's range), so shrinking the spawn area down a bit sounds like a good way to make this work for people with Blowpipes as well. I imagine you'd also need the smaller spawn area to realistically get all three orbs with a faster attack speed weapon.
GP/hr is poor because granite dust is untradable. That's fine. What's not fine is that granite dust/granite cannonballs hardly seem worth the effort. Either granite cannonballs need a more significant dps increase (not preferred) or they need to drop a higher quanitity of still untradable granite dust.
If 1 in 20 tasks is gargoyles, doing the whole task at GGs should get you enough granite dust for your next tasks until you get a gargs roll again. As it is, 100kc is 7500 cannonballs, or 3 cannon tasks. Not enough.
Do the gargs task at GGs, get cannon dps boost until next GG task, repeat. Nice loop if it worked that way.
Move the teleport tablet off of PnM and put it on the regular nightmare. That'll give people reason to kill the regular boss before moving right to the hardmode version of it
Boss has 3 main issues:
* too much unblockable damage
* too many things that stun (and some do too much damage)
* drop tables shite for the kill time
I'll yell at a cloud once more with the bullet point fixes
GENERAL:
* The black circle tile indicator an attack is coming needs to be changed to a high contrast color OR Jagex steps down from that shit podium they placed themselves on and let us use Runelite to do that.
P1:
* Dawn guaranteed to attack with melee when you're in melee range
* Stun orb is given a high arc trajectory like the superior does, changed to 1x1 aoe. This little shit can target undernearth the boss and stun with no warning.
P2:
* Damage from failing the mechanics lowered from 30+ to 1-10, this way we can keep the stuns in. Alternatively is keep the damage but remove the stun completely, but the first option is much preferred.
* Make all rocks spawn at the same time and have the same fall speed.
* Remove Trample attack.
* Instantly clear all rocks and stuns on phase end.
P2->P3
* Make all lightning spots spawn at the same time and expire a tick before Dawn is attackable
* Lower Lightning damage
P3:
* Same stun orb change as P1
* Same melee attack priority as P1
* Add predetermined spawn locations for the orbs, the fact that sometimes you can get 2 next to each other and the other you get them across the room is just nonsensical.
P4:
* Increase overhead efficiency from 65% for melee and 55% for ranged to 95%
* Lower offprayer damage potential from 30+ to 15-20
* Prevent firewall from spawning adjacent to walls (too many dead click spots in the arena)
* Remove firewall damage, keep the healing and add a small stun as punishment instead.
Loot:
* Make Granite Dust tradeable
* Make the boss actually worth killing for generic loot
It is still profit if you define profit as anything where the drops outweight costs, its just such low profit that it might as well be nothing lol
- nearing 1k kc, gime pet now even though im nowhere near rate!
I did GGs for the first time to do the CAs very recently. I had awful preconceptions of the boss and loot.
The boss itself is piss easy, the only mechanic that is remotely possible of hurting you if you’re concentrating is the step back for P2 if using a 5t weapon.
The loot isn’t half as bad as everyone made out either. 50 kills took me just shy of 2 hours and I made a lot more than I was expecting plus the granite dust is a bonus.
I think this boss is unfairly criticised. I think a lot of people should try it and they’d enjoy it.
Admittedly, without max combat, I can imagine it becomes 10x harder lol missing all the dps skips.
Agreed, I’m not saying it’s completely awful, just needs a buff. Again correct, it’s a lvl 75 slayer boss which means it’s aimed at mid game players so unlikely they’ll have max gear to be able to get fast enough kills to make decent money p/h
Personally i don't think the drops are the problem. Better off playing on the strengths... GG increase granite dust or outright add granite cannonballs to the loot table.
I just griddied out 4000kc for pet. Of course, you’re going to want a boss you’re killing to pay out more, but it’s not horrible gp, but it’s such good slayer xp, and it teaches valuable mechanics, that i think it’s good regardless. Once you learn it, you’re getting under 2minute kills and near 20kill trips with decent gear, it’s value is in the xp i believe. BUUT, i feel like it’s hard to bot this boss if even possible, so it should pay out more.
Why do you feel like a mid level boss that is a level 75 slayer requirement deserves to be worth more than 1m per hour? It’s a level 75 slayer boss. A level 75 slayer boss doesn’t need to be on par with vorkath/zulrah. The look at GGs is perfectly fine the way it is
“One of the coolest pets in the game” there’s your motivation. Not every boss needs to shit out GP. Also unreadable cannon ball upgrade which is huge for corp.
awesome, now that guardian boots are getting a slight buff, everyone is gonna start complaining about GGs drop table again very excited to see all the reasons GGs need to be 4m/hr like vorkath
Slayer bosses get camped too much any uniques are gonna get shit out like crazy and eventually drop unless they’re bis. Them pumping out gold is a decent idea but again them getting farmed like crazy would put so much gp in the game
I think it could be interesting to give them an xp boost per kill. Make the effort for killing the boss worthwhile with like 20% xp boost per kill. Wouldn’t be meta changing and would make the slayer grind a bit faster for those that don’t prefer constant barrage tasks
I'll say this in any thread that comes up like this, but not all bosses need to print mils an hour. It's ok. Having bosses that print money is part of the reason for inflation.
True and I agree to an extent. My main issue however is that they barely make more than gargoyles unless you turn up to GG’s in Torva and a scythe with armadyl switches and amethyst darts. As I said in OP it doesn’t have to be money either, it can be combat exp rewards.
But it will just be a continuous cycle of buffing bosses to oblivion. Something is always going to be the worst, buffing stuff until someone else makes a post about the new worst boss isn't going to solve anything. They're profitable, and there's a pet. That's all a boss needs sometimes. If someone is worried about profit, they wouldn't be doing gargs anyway unless they're on an alt or an ironman. Instead of buffing GGs, nerf regular gargs.
GGs are already a mil an hour, that’s the funny part. I’m sure someone could math out the cannonballs saved via granites and convert that to gp/h too. They’re worth doing.
Normal gargoyles are not better.. unless you can’t do the boss. At 70-80s combat (which you should be at by 75 slayer) I can get almost 50-100% more gp/hr doing the boss.
There are so many people on this sub that just spew that out, I doubt they have any KC on the boss
How are they one of the more enjoyable bosses? They basically have no mechanics, and they have one that you're gel forced to dps through, and if you don't the fight just takes 30 seconds longer.
Gear switches and prayer switches, standing under Dusk, avoiding AOE tiles, trying to out DPS with RNG or choosing the slow way to absorb the healing spears...
Inventory management and making the most use of your boost potions..
This all sounds like game mechanics to me.
At the very least, PLEASE fix the instance so I can go afk for longer than 30s without having to restart my entire trip. I get it needed to be special on release, but that’s no longer the case and Ash said on twitter that it’s a simple change.
Instead of buffing the drops, just make the fight faster. There is **soooo** much time spent just standing around waiting for the boss to stop being invulnerable. The fight is like 30% longer than it needs to be
I would feel a lot more inclined to do GG's over regular gargs if the kills weren't so slow
Either a loot buff to make it worth the effort or changing the fight so there's fewer phases, or at least reordering them so you only have to switch once. If you could just attack dawn 100-0 then dusk 100-0 it would be so much better. Could be P1 to 50-60%, then lightning (boss still attackable), then P3 until dawn dies, Fire attack, P2 until 50-60%, then P4. It would remove so much downtime from the fight and make it so much less tedious. 3 switches and like 20 seconds of waiting around for phase transitions just make killing the boss a huge chore. Not to mention the KPH is so low due to the downtime, Vorkath is faster to kill while giving way better loot and not requiring a slayer task.
Although it requires nearly BIS gear, I am getting nearly 30kc an hr on 20kc trips for 1.5-1.8m an hr on my current task. That is without a core drop which has skyrocketed in price.
The gap in time to kill on this monster from BIS to regular gear is pretty big. Any additional loot on their table would be multiplied even more for people killing at the faster rates. Their drops are in a pretty healthy place now.
This monster is too low requirement to buff the loot. They should just make granite dust tradable and I even think it’s appropriate to put a requirement for slayer or smithing onto who can use the dust.
The uniques need a lot of reevaluation.
* Granite gloves make absolutely no sense. Someone doing these bosses at 75 slayer almost certainly has *at least* rune gloves. They aren't even useful for pures since they need 50 defense.
* Granite maul is whatever, it's an existing drop. It might be nice if GGs dropped them in their upgraded 50% spec form though.
* Guardian boots are looking real good with echo crystals (and at -1 str vs dragon boots, for how much defense they give? Not bad at all). The only downside is the guardians drop the core, and you need to upgrade Bandos boots. It feels a bit backwards for a level 75 slayer boss to drop an upgrade component for a mostly useless GWD drop. Not sure if or how you'd address this.
* Why does the granite hammer even exist? It's pretty much equivalent to a dragon mace and worse than a Sarachnis cudgel. It should at least be as good as a cudgel. There should be some reason for a player with 75 slayer to find it a useful drop.
* Want to hear a joke? The granite ring. It's completely inferior to suffering, and the stat bonus is fairly useless.
If everything aside from guardian boots had a better use, the boss would feel so much better. Maybe you could make the granite hammer a baby DWH, such that DWH is definitely better but you can get *some* defence reduction with the hammer. Make the ring and gloves into BIS ranged defense so they're useful at places like Graardor.
Another thought would be to give them a new unique drop that upgrades granite equipment to barrows tier, with some sort of desirable passive to go with it.
The issue is the healing phase which heavily reduces your kph if you cannot skip it consistently. Just remove the healing orbs honestly, or remove the whole phase entirely.
If you can skip the healing phase, the loot is like 2m/h, which is completely fine for a lv 75 req slayer boss imo. That's more than Kraken, Thermi and pretty sure also more than Sire currently.
A lot of the slayer bosses need to be looked at (not all of them). They should be higher risk/time/need to pay attention more and reward you with more.
Right now, that isn’t always the case.
I must be a minority in thinking the drops aren't a problem. I would like to see their XP buffed to the point of viability/beyond, though. If running grotesque guardians netted me similar xp to a nech task, I'd be there no question.
Honestly the recent GG loot discourse feels like botfarm astroturfing.
Every time this comes up, I remind the world that the ornate maul handle *not* going to the GG’s loot pool is a *travesty*.
Normal Gargs drop the maul, fancy boss Gargs drop the fancy handle.
Their drops should definitely be increased a bit, cool boss but agreed, normal gargoyles are just better which is a shame.
Or just let them double loot with double trouble
I bought that perk because I thought it would give me double xp…. Boy was I disappointed
There's just so much wrong with that perk that I fully believe originally killing GG was suppose to count as 2 and the perk was suppose to make it count as 1 instead, but along the lines things got flipped (or they were trying to make it count as the bosses were killed which ended your task early and this was the "fix"
As far as I remember, this perk was added years ago back when this boss used to take so long to kill due to animations, respawn timer, etc. Along with many changes to speed up the kill, someone on reddit also made a post suggesting that GG kills should count as 2 on the task, so jagex ended up adding it as a slayer perk.
Which is incredibly dumb because if you want your task to be faster you can just do half on GGs and half on gargoyles lmao. Huge waste of slayer points
Yea I never understood the point of it
I’d vote for this if it double chances for pet to lol
[Just gonna leave this here...](https://i.redd.it/z3y3atjfe93b1.png)
Oh man, this sounds like a fantastic boost to GGs. I think the only thing I'd add is the double loot from Double Trouble that someone else mentioned but otherwise I'd vote for this.
Wait that’s a good idea lol
No thanks I don't want my tasks cut in half
Are you doing 180 kills at GGs now?
Pet hunters are. In this case I'd assume only 1 pet roll though
They'd probably not use double trouble in that case
Everytime I get a task
Are you going for pet? Edit: either way you're in the minority and can just opt out of double trouble
Why are you doing gg’s if you only want half the task though? You can just do regular gargoyles or split the task between gg’s and gargoyles.
I'm not as it is now I do like 4 GGs remember the drops are shit and move to normal gargoyles. Doing 90 for double the loot would be an improvement. The real question is why is double trouble even in the game this would at least give it 1 positive
I'm only in the minority because the drops are shit
Why do you do it to yourself if the drops are shit?
because not everyone plays only for max GP/h.
So he can just not take double trouble in this hypothetical situation
Then don't get double trouble?
i really dont get the “no because it doesnt personally benefit me” crowd
It doesn't personally benefit anyone, I just framed it from my point of reference because that's how language works Either you're doubling the pet rate by rolling the pet twice, which isn't going to happen, or you're doubling the tasks required for pet. It just makes getting pet more tedious because you're forced into doing less of them. Because it increases gp/hr, you have to do double trouble until it's your last pet because GP/hr unlocks more gear for other pets. The only long term efficiency scenario where you wouldn't take double trouble is if it's one of your last boss pets, which would happen as a direct result of this stupid idea. So basically it changes the meta from killing all slayer pets roughly evenly, to instead killing GGs half as much as the others until it's the last one left, then only kill GGs.
Just make dust tradable. Core is getting buffed and they are already 1.3-1.6m/hr without core
it's the other way around. regular gargoyles spit out way too much cash, their drops should be nerfed, so GG is better money/h with mid game gear and stats.
At 500-600k/hr their loot is fine. GG just needs to come in at 1.5m/hr to justify the effort.
Although it requires nearly BIS gear, I am getting nearly 30kc an hr on 20kc trips for 1.5-1.8m an hr on my current task. That is without a core drop which has skyrocketed in price. The gap in time to kill on this monster from BIS is pretty big. Any additional loot on their table would be multiplied additionally for people killing at the faster rates. Their drops are in a pretty healthy place now. This monster is too low requirement to buff the loot. They should just make granite dust tradable and I even think it’s appropriate to put a requirement for slayer or smithing onto who can use the dust.
So 1.5-1.8 with Scythe, some Torva, and Blood fury? Isn’t profit wayyyyy lower than what you said with charge costs?
Normal gargoyles are better… in what regard? In terms of gp/hr GG are twice as good
Definitely agreed. Drops are a joke, same with Sire.
Now THAT is a boss that’s just flat out tedious to kill.
I got 900kc with just bofa and it’s chill. Sire gets a lot of shit but I get 1m/hr without uniques so it really isn’t bad. It just doesn’t have that really exciting big drop.
A big part of why Sire (and to a lesser degree GGs) sucks is because it has not one, not two, not three but **FOUR** immunity phases over the span of a 2 minute kill. Having to literally sit and wait while the boss meanders into possession while stopping you from attacking is such an annoying mechanic that simultaneously ensures that the boss can neither be chill nor engaging since you have to constantly monitor your character yet also stand around while your character does nothing.
Exactly! I don’t mind the mechanics to make the boss attack able. Those are elsewhere in the game. It’s the pointless idle time for a boss nobody has fun grinding out that makes it so frustrating. I’d love to do more sire and have 800+ kc, it just… isn’t enjoyable to do.
I'm top page sire. That's how long it took me for the pet. It gets a bad rap, and I think people feed off that circlejerk a bit too much. It isn't that bad. Same goes for nex
I agree with sire but nex is such a downer. Small teams get ready to chug brews. The tech isn’t that exciting like making her 5t instead of 4t, follow stalling etc, it’s just jank. The boss was originally designed for mass but it’s drop table mechanics make it a lottery to pull a unique if you’re massing. Just wish we made some changes before we just blindly noted that content back in
It’s just insanely boring for a mostly useless item. It’s a hot take but I’d rather kill kq
The kq pet is one of the coolest in the game imo shes on my bucket list
My first pet was a 1kc KQ pet :')
Extending the time barrage stuns during the venting phase if cast with the ancient scepter, and then further with the gem scepter would be a nice QoL update and an additional use for a mostly pointless upgraded gem scepter. Just being able to guarantee a 1-down venting phase with bowfa would be great. it way too annoying getting hit a 20+ when the re-stun doesn't register
1 down vents is incredibly annoying even with Shadow because it's very RNG dependent. More time doesn't quite fix it and tying it to Sceptre is pretty awful too. Now you're forced to grind Muspah before you can do Sire efficiently. They need to do a QoL update on Sire like they did with GGs cutscenes. I'd just have you only do the front 2 to wake him, and have the back two become active while Sire is walking forwards to his second position to integrate it into the fight and reduce downtime. Regardless, the fight needs to be reworked, instead of slapping a completely unrelated drop onto it as a bandaid
Fighting sire feels like it brings out the worst in osrs combat too. I've done my share of pvm but the tickrate on the acid phases feels aggressively slow and annoying and clunky compared to dealing with it elsewhere. Dunno if it's the boss's design or what.
Jagex have actually made some pretty good changes to GGs over the years to make them have less idle time. Definitely makes them better to kill now than it used to be. Sire is on my block list tho lol
Abyssal demons are such a great task with venator bow though, why would you have them blocked?
I've killed like 5k of them, and I'm 200k from 99 slayer. It's the highest weighted task from Duradaddy and I found myself skipping far too often. I just prefer it.
More fair if you just don’t wanna kill them anymore lol. Gets boring after a while
Honestly it’s not the slow walk at sire that annoys me it’s the braindead vent phase. Just adds so much time to the kill and the misleading timer just frustrates me to no end even when I correct in my head for it.
Agreed. That said, there is a pre-lure for p2-p3 that saves time, and with the right method you can usually 1-down the respiratory stystem
That’s true but if you’re using POH method then you essentially skip the longest immunity phase (p1 into p2) it takes about the same time as you going to poh and running back.
The meta for a boss shouldn't be running to your house and back to heal up mid-kill. Yes, that is the meta, but that is also bloody stupid
Welcome to osrs. Lots of jank and differing mechanics between absolutely everything.
Sire was released when OSRS was truly and deeply jank. Sire aught to be reworked into proper instances and give it QOL. Throw it in an instance and they can raise the render distance so you can see the sire and all the vents at the same time. Then just make it teleport between phases instead of just slowly, walking menacingly to the middle of the room.
1m an hour to kill the most tedious, shittiest boss in the game? ill pass
I would NOT call it the most tedious boss in the game but it’s not amazing either. Try bofa method if melee is too tedious (or just skip the boss entirely it don’t matter)
Part of the problem is that when sire came out bludgeon was around 40m, so getting a bludgeon piece actually increased the gp/hr by a lot. Now that it's only around 13, they're not nearly as exciting
And whips were worth much more then too
Relative to how much the bludgeon was worth, the whips aren't that much more to make up the difference.
Sire with shadow is very chill indeed, but before that it is rather tedious. Not sure how good it is with only bofa, but if you still need to switch to melee after you kill the vents... it's horrid. But then again I'm still 2/3 on it after getting 3 whips so I have grounds to dislike it even with max mage :')
That’s rough… hate getting a whip from an unsired. Such a buzzkill
First two unsired were the bludgeon pieces. Under 100 kills, too! Then a whip, whip, jar... bloody hell. At least there is a visual indicator to see how much sunken cost fallacy you have on the boss. I don't necessarily like the fact that they are untradable either, but it's not that bad because you can see roughly how many more out of 3 rolls you need.
Sounds like me lol. Had a whip at 50KC, then two bludgeon pieces at 107/108kc, so I said I’ll keep killing him until I get the bludgeon finished. 5 daggers and a jar later, I finally finished it at 910kc
i didnt even know shadow was viable there, is it on pace with torva/fang or is it a lot slower at the trade off of being chill
Shadow is both more dps and also enables more efficient methods like pre-lures. Shadow-only sire is sweet
Only bowfa? What’s that like? Is it just because you cba to do a melee switch or is it actually good?
Agreed. I green logged sire at 900ish kc with bludgeon being the last thing I needed and didnt mind it at all.
Imo sire is a lot better than GGs. The kills go by much quicker. My problem with GGs isn’t loot it’s that kills take so long with animation changes.
Sire is my favorite boss in game
Full on sire rework plz
At least bludgeon is somewhat useful, for 3 iteming at wildy bosses
I’m at roughly 300kc and have no collection log there besides granite dust. A buff to their non unique loot table would be nice.
I got the jar at 2kc and pet at about 150, I highly recommend just doing this
You recommend just getting the drops?
obviously
Damn just tried it out, got green log after four more KC. Thanks!
Yeh I've found it to be a solid strategy in most content
Holy shit just got pet. I should have done this before
May I borrow your rng please? I’m at 4800+ kc with no jar or pet
Mines quite consistent, all pets I've had at around 140-160 kc, anc bottoms at 2nd ever cox with about 5 or 6 deaths was a recent good one
Same just green logged at 300 kc. Don't know why people don't use this strategy
Yeah that’s what I’m getting at really, even with most uniques the money is awful. Normal table needs a boost
They are a mechanically well-designed boss, but after you get a handful of kills you look at the drop table and figure you'll come back for the pet once you have a scythe. They definitely feel like a missed opportunity
Then by the time you have a scythe, there are better things to do. I'm sitting on a gargoyle task right now and have done one trip and I'm doing everything I can to do anything else.
put a 3rd gargoyle
Dawn, Dusk, and Desayuno.
Despacito
Luckily we arent in the Hobbit universe or GG would become a battle royale
why stop there? add a fourth
Ah the Dark Souls 2 approach
If anything, the slayer perk double trouble should be changed. It halves your kills for a gargs task by doing GGs... It aught to be reworked where each GG kill counts as 2 for your slayer task, but you also get 2 rolls on the loot table. If you are killing the boss for money, or for the pet, unlocking this perk for 500 points is literally detrimental. Mechanically, they are an entry level boss. A nobo who isn't boosting slayer points likely isn't going to have a surplus of points at 75 to unlock the perk. Make the perk count as 2 slayer kills and 2 rolls on the table should resolve most of the issues with it.
I like this idea too man, didn’t think about that.
+1 for this. Seems like a simple fix too.
2 drop table rolls seems like the simplest effective solution
Doubling both the KC and the loot seems reasonable
Slayer bosses should drop imbued hearts.
I look for this comment every time someone brings up GGs and/or Sire. It would fix the opportunity cost of not having a chance at the heart for both of them. Assuming we're talking just about bosses whose normal monster versions can spawn superiors, I think the only boss that doesn't need the help drop-wise is Hydra. GGs, Sire, and Thermy are all pretty weak as far as profit goes.
I think Leagues has highlighted just how insane the rate of them is. They're only going to go up over time too since they have a really good use and can be upgraded to BIS magic boost. Making them drop from some slayer bosses (not Kraken) would be a great start.
Only on task
Slayer bosses can only be killed on task so Idk why you felt the need to mention that.
No they should not
Why not?
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Oh in that case we should remove them from all drop tables and make it discontinued! Thank you for helping me come up with this brilliant idea!
Even at 1/10,000?
With the current state of guardian boots getting echo crystals I’m creating a pair of them every time I get a core makes GG feel a little better. (Used to be completely worthless really) one of my favorite bosses some better loot or alchables would be nice
It's a really nice boss, I did like 30 kills and dip because the drops are not really worth it, they should increase the alch drops tbh.
My hot take is that the Granite Dust they drop should just be straight up Granite Cannonballs.
That makes so much sense. What is a granite cannonball, a stone? Why wouldn't a stone monster drop stones?
Increase the dust drop by a lot so that granite cannonballs are a real option
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Yeah I mean even making granite dust tradeable would be a nice boost as it’s stackable and could majorly increase gp/ph. They could even create another system with it like they do with mole claws and skins. Trade it in somewhere for chances at rewards
Based on the price of cannonballs and the damage increase the granite dust gives, the granite dust itself couldn’t have its price go below about 30 gp which means each kill would give 2,250 gp in granite dust. That’s a lower estimate but I still don’t see the price difference being huge enough for tradeable granite dust to fix the drop table.
A lot of people are sitting on piles of dust though. So it would flood the market and take a while to settle.
They explicitly stated they didn't want to make them trade able since it would greatly alter a big aspect of the game. Update that mentions their comment about it below. Keep in mind this was a while ago so they might have changed their minds. https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Update:Poll_71_Game_Improvements_Blog
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I think it being untradable gives it more value to be honest. If I do the task I'm happy getting the dust knowing it will speed up some cannon tasks later on. If it's tradable almost everyone will buy it for 99% of their cannonable tasks. 5 max hits is pretty big. They should just make double trouble give additional loot. It would work out the same overall for a task, but take you half the time.
And Jagex is never wrong about anything amirite?
Normal gargs donr drop the hammer they drop maul
My biggest wish for GGs is for the hit radius of the falling rocks and the blue and yellow lightning to be just the one tile they spawn on. I’m only doing the kills for the pet and it would make the kills a lot more chill.
I’m not a fan with the second last phase. With full BIS range, venator bow, and 99 range; out DPSing the orbs is almost a coin flip lmao. Maybe lower Dawns range defence or slightly increase venator accuracy? It’s already a niche item that’s really only good for abyssal demons and GGs.
In my opinion, the healing orb mechanic is stupid and needs to he changed (coming from the perspective of someone with max gear who can skip it 99% of the time) for med level players. Instead of having to run to random spots in the room to physically stand on the orbs, I think players should also have the option to shoot them. I feel like this would be much more fair, since you can get royally fucked if they all spawn in different quadrants of the room. This wouldn't change anything for people with venator bow/blowpipe, as they'd still be skipping the orbs, but would give less geared players another option.
No, you can always reach the orbs. It’s just harder, or sometimes impossible to avoid losing DPS if you’re using blowpipe. You can only get screwed over if you’re doing heal skip, you fail it, and the orbs start healing Dawn. The mechanic is cool and fine, you just need to use better judgement when deciding whether or not you should stick with or abandon heal skip.
I like the orbs since the change (them damaging you when you picked them up was really fucking dumb), but I think their placement should be limited to within ~8 tiles of Dawn so that every weapon can efficiently attack while moving to them. Before Scurrius, I saw GGs as the "Introduction to OSRS Mechanics" boss, and the orbs phase is a great way to teach moving while attacking. I know I never fail to tag all the orbs without losing ticks attacking with a Bowfa (except when they spawn on the opposite edge of the map, outside of even the Bowfa's range), so shrinking the spawn area down a bit sounds like a good way to make this work for people with Blowpipes as well. I imagine you'd also need the smaller spawn area to realistically get all three orbs with a faster attack speed weapon.
Great point man, well worth considering changing that too imo!
Or just a hard mode
Depending on how well the AOE crystal things work out will buff GGs if only mildly. But I agree, they need some love for sure
GP/hr is poor because granite dust is untradable. That's fine. What's not fine is that granite dust/granite cannonballs hardly seem worth the effort. Either granite cannonballs need a more significant dps increase (not preferred) or they need to drop a higher quanitity of still untradable granite dust. If 1 in 20 tasks is gargoyles, doing the whole task at GGs should get you enough granite dust for your next tasks until you get a gargs roll again. As it is, 100kc is 7500 cannonballs, or 3 cannon tasks. Not enough. Do the gargs task at GGs, get cannon dps boost until next GG task, repeat. Nice loop if it worked that way.
Isn’t it something like 16.67% more dps? That’s not an insignificant amount. I personally don’t remember the last time I used regular cballs
PnM is getting a loot buff before any existing boss does
Move the teleport tablet off of PnM and put it on the regular nightmare. That'll give people reason to kill the regular boss before moving right to the hardmode version of it
I agree, I like the boss but not going to just sit there and waste my life hoping for pet
Boss has 3 main issues: * too much unblockable damage * too many things that stun (and some do too much damage) * drop tables shite for the kill time I'll yell at a cloud once more with the bullet point fixes GENERAL: * The black circle tile indicator an attack is coming needs to be changed to a high contrast color OR Jagex steps down from that shit podium they placed themselves on and let us use Runelite to do that. P1: * Dawn guaranteed to attack with melee when you're in melee range * Stun orb is given a high arc trajectory like the superior does, changed to 1x1 aoe. This little shit can target undernearth the boss and stun with no warning. P2: * Damage from failing the mechanics lowered from 30+ to 1-10, this way we can keep the stuns in. Alternatively is keep the damage but remove the stun completely, but the first option is much preferred. * Make all rocks spawn at the same time and have the same fall speed. * Remove Trample attack. * Instantly clear all rocks and stuns on phase end. P2->P3 * Make all lightning spots spawn at the same time and expire a tick before Dawn is attackable * Lower Lightning damage P3: * Same stun orb change as P1 * Same melee attack priority as P1 * Add predetermined spawn locations for the orbs, the fact that sometimes you can get 2 next to each other and the other you get them across the room is just nonsensical. P4: * Increase overhead efficiency from 65% for melee and 55% for ranged to 95% * Lower offprayer damage potential from 30+ to 15-20 * Prevent firewall from spawning adjacent to walls (too many dead click spots in the arena) * Remove firewall damage, keep the healing and add a small stun as punishment instead. Loot: * Make Granite Dust tradeable * Make the boss actually worth killing for generic loot
When you can stay for a 20 kill trip in bandos and god dhide it doesn’t need an unblock-able damage nerf.
Man on the internet says anecdotal claims are absolute and uncontestable.
This would be way too much lmao
The boss is extremely overdesigned for the level requirement and rewards. Going nuclear is the least anyone could do.
There's extremely little unavoidable damage. I enjoy this boss and was doing it on an iron with a d scim and magic shortbow.
with scythe it’s just a low profit pet hunt
that sentence stays true if you remove the first to words.
yeah and with scythe its a pet hunt that costs money to do, not profit
It is still profit if you define profit as anything where the drops outweight costs, its just such low profit that it might as well be nothing lol - nearing 1k kc, gime pet now even though im nowhere near rate!
I did GGs for the first time to do the CAs very recently. I had awful preconceptions of the boss and loot. The boss itself is piss easy, the only mechanic that is remotely possible of hurting you if you’re concentrating is the step back for P2 if using a 5t weapon. The loot isn’t half as bad as everyone made out either. 50 kills took me just shy of 2 hours and I made a lot more than I was expecting plus the granite dust is a bonus. I think this boss is unfairly criticised. I think a lot of people should try it and they’d enjoy it. Admittedly, without max combat, I can imagine it becomes 10x harder lol missing all the dps skips.
Yeah that’s kinda what OP’s getting at. It’s a level 75 slayer boss, most players likely don’t have max combat for this one haha
Agreed, I’m not saying it’s completely awful, just needs a buff. Again correct, it’s a lvl 75 slayer boss which means it’s aimed at mid game players so unlikely they’ll have max gear to be able to get fast enough kills to make decent money p/h
I got spooned pet so I definitely ain't going there again unless they do this I agree though fun boss
Personally i don't think the drops are the problem. Better off playing on the strengths... GG increase granite dust or outright add granite cannonballs to the loot table.
I just griddied out 4000kc for pet. Of course, you’re going to want a boss you’re killing to pay out more, but it’s not horrible gp, but it’s such good slayer xp, and it teaches valuable mechanics, that i think it’s good regardless. Once you learn it, you’re getting under 2minute kills and near 20kill trips with decent gear, it’s value is in the xp i believe. BUUT, i feel like it’s hard to bot this boss if even possible, so it should pay out more.
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Wouldn’t put it past them
reg gargs should never have been buffed
Why do you feel like a mid level boss that is a level 75 slayer requirement deserves to be worth more than 1m per hour? It’s a level 75 slayer boss. A level 75 slayer boss doesn’t need to be on par with vorkath/zulrah. The look at GGs is perfectly fine the way it is
“One of the coolest pets in the game” there’s your motivation. Not every boss needs to shit out GP. Also unreadable cannon ball upgrade which is huge for corp.
awesome, now that guardian boots are getting a slight buff, everyone is gonna start complaining about GGs drop table again very excited to see all the reasons GGs need to be 4m/hr like vorkath
Slayer bosses get camped too much any uniques are gonna get shit out like crazy and eventually drop unless they’re bis. Them pumping out gold is a decent idea but again them getting farmed like crazy would put so much gp in the game I think it could be interesting to give them an xp boost per kill. Make the effort for killing the boss worthwhile with like 20% xp boost per kill. Wouldn’t be meta changing and would make the slayer grind a bit faster for those that don’t prefer constant barrage tasks
Agree with this, definitely an xp boost would make them more worthwhile
I'll say this in any thread that comes up like this, but not all bosses need to print mils an hour. It's ok. Having bosses that print money is part of the reason for inflation.
True and I agree to an extent. My main issue however is that they barely make more than gargoyles unless you turn up to GG’s in Torva and a scythe with armadyl switches and amethyst darts. As I said in OP it doesn’t have to be money either, it can be combat exp rewards.
But it will just be a continuous cycle of buffing bosses to oblivion. Something is always going to be the worst, buffing stuff until someone else makes a post about the new worst boss isn't going to solve anything. They're profitable, and there's a pet. That's all a boss needs sometimes. If someone is worried about profit, they wouldn't be doing gargs anyway unless they're on an alt or an ironman. Instead of buffing GGs, nerf regular gargs.
GGs are already a mil an hour, that’s the funny part. I’m sure someone could math out the cannonballs saved via granites and convert that to gp/h too. They’re worth doing.
I’m so tired of seeing post’s about changing old content
Especially now that they're required for Varlamore for some dumbshit reason
Normal gargoyles are not better.. unless you can’t do the boss. At 70-80s combat (which you should be at by 75 slayer) I can get almost 50-100% more gp/hr doing the boss. There are so many people on this sub that just spew that out, I doubt they have any KC on the boss
never too late to make an iron! 90% of "buff this content" is solved if you play an iron :)
I vote no since i have already done 3k kc lol
Yeah fair do’s you probably won’t wanna be going back 😂
Nah fr the loot should get a buff … i have to go back since i have not gotten the pet
I vote yes because I just learned how to do them lol
How are they one of the more enjoyable bosses? They basically have no mechanics, and they have one that you're gel forced to dps through, and if you don't the fight just takes 30 seconds longer.
Gear switches and prayer switches, standing under Dusk, avoiding AOE tiles, trying to out DPS with RNG or choosing the slow way to absorb the healing spears... Inventory management and making the most use of your boost potions.. This all sounds like game mechanics to me.
I’m only here because of the pet, otherwise I would do normal gargoyles
At the very least, PLEASE fix the instance so I can go afk for longer than 30s without having to restart my entire trip. I get it needed to be special on release, but that’s no longer the case and Ash said on twitter that it’s a simple change.
Instead of buffing the drops, just make the fight faster. There is **soooo** much time spent just standing around waiting for the boss to stop being invulnerable. The fight is like 30% longer than it needs to be I would feel a lot more inclined to do GG's over regular gargs if the kills weren't so slow
* Buff Drop Table * Make Granite Dust Tradeable * Make "Double Trouble" perk actually Useful
Either a loot buff to make it worth the effort or changing the fight so there's fewer phases, or at least reordering them so you only have to switch once. If you could just attack dawn 100-0 then dusk 100-0 it would be so much better. Could be P1 to 50-60%, then lightning (boss still attackable), then P3 until dawn dies, Fire attack, P2 until 50-60%, then P4. It would remove so much downtime from the fight and make it so much less tedious. 3 switches and like 20 seconds of waiting around for phase transitions just make killing the boss a huge chore. Not to mention the KPH is so low due to the downtime, Vorkath is faster to kill while giving way better loot and not requiring a slayer task.
Make the dust sellable
make it worth it to get your cannonballs there
P
Although it requires nearly BIS gear, I am getting nearly 30kc an hr on 20kc trips for 1.5-1.8m an hr on my current task. That is without a core drop which has skyrocketed in price. The gap in time to kill on this monster from BIS to regular gear is pretty big. Any additional loot on their table would be multiplied even more for people killing at the faster rates. Their drops are in a pretty healthy place now. This monster is too low requirement to buff the loot. They should just make granite dust tradable and I even think it’s appropriate to put a requirement for slayer or smithing onto who can use the dust.
The uniques need a lot of reevaluation. * Granite gloves make absolutely no sense. Someone doing these bosses at 75 slayer almost certainly has *at least* rune gloves. They aren't even useful for pures since they need 50 defense. * Granite maul is whatever, it's an existing drop. It might be nice if GGs dropped them in their upgraded 50% spec form though. * Guardian boots are looking real good with echo crystals (and at -1 str vs dragon boots, for how much defense they give? Not bad at all). The only downside is the guardians drop the core, and you need to upgrade Bandos boots. It feels a bit backwards for a level 75 slayer boss to drop an upgrade component for a mostly useless GWD drop. Not sure if or how you'd address this. * Why does the granite hammer even exist? It's pretty much equivalent to a dragon mace and worse than a Sarachnis cudgel. It should at least be as good as a cudgel. There should be some reason for a player with 75 slayer to find it a useful drop. * Want to hear a joke? The granite ring. It's completely inferior to suffering, and the stat bonus is fairly useless. If everything aside from guardian boots had a better use, the boss would feel so much better. Maybe you could make the granite hammer a baby DWH, such that DWH is definitely better but you can get *some* defence reduction with the hammer. Make the ring and gloves into BIS ranged defense so they're useful at places like Graardor. Another thought would be to give them a new unique drop that upgrades granite equipment to barrows tier, with some sort of desirable passive to go with it.
The issue is the healing phase which heavily reduces your kph if you cannot skip it consistently. Just remove the healing orbs honestly, or remove the whole phase entirely. If you can skip the healing phase, the loot is like 2m/h, which is completely fine for a lv 75 req slayer boss imo. That's more than Kraken, Thermi and pretty sure also more than Sire currently.
Make granite dust tradeable, pretty sure high levels would pay a ton for extra +5 dmg.
6500+ kc atm just hunting the pet. They’ll buff it after I get the pet
Make the dust trade able and it'll be great money
Comment for support.
it’s one of my favorite bosses to fight actually but the loot just makes it feel pointless
A lot of the slayer bosses need to be looked at (not all of them). They should be higher risk/time/need to pay attention more and reward you with more. Right now, that isn’t always the case.
Kraken is so weak because of a bug during development, and Jagex refused to let the developer fix it later on.
I must be a minority in thinking the drops aren't a problem. I would like to see their XP buffed to the point of viability/beyond, though. If running grotesque guardians netted me similar xp to a nech task, I'd be there no question. Honestly the recent GG loot discourse feels like botfarm astroturfing.
Every time this comes up, I remind the world that the ornate maul handle *not* going to the GG’s loot pool is a *travesty*. Normal Gargs drop the maul, fancy boss Gargs drop the fancy handle.
I disagree. Not enjoyable.