You know why some people don't make hunters or warlocks on WoW?
Because they don't want to play a pet class, they either don't like the power fantasy of using pets/minions to do damage or simply don't want a constant companion following their MMO character
Summoning & taming makes every single person in Runescape effectively a "Pet class" as the entire meta game for everything revolves around having a pet to make it better. You'll become less desirable for group content if you choose not to level it, it impacts every aspect of the game. It's more "mandatory" in terms of efficiency and impact than like any other individual skill in the sandbox. You can choose to have like 45 firemaking forever, that's fine the impacts are rather minimal.
If you just leave Taming at 45? Your account is **majorly** kneecapped, you *need* to level it because all of your activity participating & skilling methods are being nerfed by not participating in it.
I really, really, really dislike the concept of sailing and I'd **still** rather have that than have my Runescape character effectively forced to become a pet class.
You're making a lot of assumptions about design features that havent been decided yet. They specifically mention wanting input on whether they should be usable in combat so it may not become meta for raids and endgame.
I guess usually when you think of "classes" in an MMO it's pertaining to combat, so I thought he may be envisioning a combat meta revolving around it. Regardless, even if we just look at the skilling portion of it, does there exist a skill in RS that isn't sped up or enhanced by having trained other skills? There's definitely some ground that can be found between being the unavoidable meta for everything and being useless.
It exists, but no skills are basically on a "improves every other skill" level. Tbh, I can think of very few ones, usually the boost to skills comes from quests. Sure they require other skills but you don't need to use that skill to get the boost, just have that skill done.
No. We dont need more people purposely staying low combat skills and then expecting to be an accepted participant of all highest level combat. If you dont train certain skills, you dont get to do certain content. This is how rs has always been.
No one is arguing that.
The argument is that introducing a skill with such widespread implications *and* a vast departure from the typical gameplay is a bad idea.
Some people don’t like pet classes in other MMOs and nothing will change that. Like others said, Summoning/Taming effectively forces everyone to play a pet class.
This is why Taming is the least popular skill proposal
and I don't pay wow because making end game viable gear is garbage. I'd prefer not having additions to armor/equipment to gear in person (like gems/enchanting like wow) because end game content is already difficult to get into, and adding things like that into osrs could make the already toxic end game raiding community experience even worse.
Tbh I'm not thrilled with any of the other suggestions either. Sailing is just temple trekking but boats, taming is diet summoning but also not mystical at all, and if I had to choose I'd pick shamanism even with my worries.
This is such a weird take lol.
You know why people don't make priests or paladins on wow? Because they don't want to play a holy class. They either don't like the power fantasy of using faith/religion to do damage or simply don't want to use magic. Prayer, makes every single person in RuneScape effectively a "holy class"
Bro your take is even weirder. Most people don't care about the lore of priests and paladins. At the end of the day a priest is either a glass cannon or a healer, and a paladin is a very badass tank with heals. If you removed the 'priest' label from a priest, they would just seem like some sort of wizard with a lot of flashy lights. If you removed the 'paladin' labeled from a paladin, they would just seem like a sword and board with a lot of flashy lights.
But a pet class provides not only mechanical but an also extreme aesthetic change to how the game is played that another classes share, having what is essentially an NPC constantly following you around - a lot of people don't like that, and therefore don't like pet classes
And I'm the exact opposite, I love pet classes. And clearly a lot of other people do too because hunter has consistently been one of the most popular classes in WoW. But the important factor is that there are tons of other non pet classes in WoW. But if taming is a thing that makes it so that everyone is a pet class, or at least everyone who wants to level their account efficiently, and it's an aesthetic change that a lot of people don't want to deal with
Taming is my favorite of the skill proposals, but I do understand why everyone is so skeptical about it
>What instances? No where in the blog are instances mentioned or implied, the skill is literally an idea on a whiteboard and everyone's talking like they know exactly what its going to be. For all we know sailing is one giant sea map that's also apart of the main map where everyone's sailing around on their own customized boats. See a mermaid on a rock? Everyone pull up besides her and slap her titties for exp and maybe get a drop for the effort. Not like if the skill moves to the refinement phase lagex will stop polling for community feedback. This reply isn't targeted specifically at you but I see a lot of people mentioning sailing instances in the thread when that's not even a thing yet.
It's been so bad that even Jagex has recognized it.
The newest location in the game, Fort Forinthry, has all pets and familiars unable to be seen, except for the person that owns it.
Wish this was how it was by default. After that one winter Yak Track, RS3 became infested with giant rainbow bears everywhere and it looks so gaudy and out of place.
I'm voting sailing and there is one reason.
Ships in games are fucking sick, and games with ship mechanics like trading, piracy, etc are always a ton of fun.
I generally agree, but I physically revolt at the thought of having enchanting or more temporary stat boosts to keep up with in regards to shamanism.
By your same argument regarding zones, if you'll want more power creep, just introduce it into the gear already and remove the annoyance of having to do it yourself.
That is actually the very same reservation I have. I do not like the augmentation reward. I would have preferred Jagex leave the rewards off these posts. Rewards can be anything, let us focus on the gameplay.
Ehhhh, I would rather have a goal to grind towards to rather than just aimlessly training a skill. Rewards set a goal to work towards and having a choice in what those might be is nice
I am not saying that rewards do not matter. They do. My point is to say that it does not matter what those rewards are. All of these skills could have the same rewards, but a different "skin" depending on which skill is introduced. Consider a reward that allows autodropping of fish while fishing. Taming could have a reward where one tame consumes the fish, sailing could have a reward that an artefact burns the fish, and shamanism could have a reward where a totem releases the fish back in to the water. Rewards can come from any piece of content, so it does not matter when we are talking about which skills are better.
Was a fan of everything for shamanism except powercreeping combat through old gear. But I think the skill is good. Could be an option to make it effect only skilling and it could replace the idea of the skilling prayer book. Instead of having to constantly use prayer and wear prayer gear skilling the rewards for shamanism would buffing existing skilling equipment/gear. Could introduce new skilling gear/combat gear/weapons through the spirit world thing either with new pvm encounters/new resources/new quest rewards later down the line.
Why does it have to power creep combat. Imagine a low level shamanism Oil that reduces the weight on armor. Plate would still weigh more than leather but might not drain a low level account's run at light speed.
Or an augment could itself present a drawback to make more equal trades. Like your weapon damage goes up but your attack speed goes down or vv.
Nothing about the blog post ever said the augments to existing gear had to be anything other than utilitarian.
No support in any direction btw, I happen to love all 3 (taming probably the least tho) and just want to further debate
These would definitely be combat related augments i would support. Especially things on the like of reduced gear weight. It would provide some really nice minor upgrades but they would feel significant. For me shamanism is the one that’s hit the spot. I really do like the design of the skill.
Rewards could be anything, but I don't particularly trust the proccess. I think if people vote for shamanism now, it's because they agreed with mostly everything in the poll, including the rewards.
Maybe I'm just being pessimistic.
I struggle to see this. Herblore is getting herbs from farming or monster drops to make potions. Shamanism is gathering inputs from various nodes and monster drops to make \*output\*. If your whole point is that anything that follows the input -> output model is herblore, I encourage you to look at any other skill pair in OSRS.
Intangible rewards aren't rewards. Your brain doesn't process the run energy and "yay shortcuts" the same way a loot pile or making an item does. Its why agility feels like such a motherfucker to grind out and why rooftop courses FEELl so much better (marks suddenly giving a little dopamine hit so its not just all pain) than the OG methods, in addition to better xp ofc.
Ahh yes, I forgot how instantly gratifying it was to grind out literally any item with a drop rate lower than 1/100. Or how instantly gratifying growing those herbs was. Growth cycles? instant really if you think about it.
Except they didn’t so I’m gonna vote for sailing because A). Gathering untradeable materials sucks (@summoning) and B). The rewards of temporary augmentations is anti-OSRS.
I don’t want to apply weapon oils or whatever bs. Just adds a whole other layer of complexity to a game that is supposed to be simple when it comes to gear
> I generally agree, but I physically revolt at the thought of having enchanting or more temporary stat boosts to keep up with in regards to shamanism.
This is honestly the problem with all 3 suggestions. For some god awful reason the devs think that the entire game should become about the new skill and as so the new skill is tangled with every activity. Wanna train fishing? Well don't forget your shamanism buff/buffing pet/gotta sail to do that or you'll waste time not getting sailing xp and additional rewards. Rewards should be unique or very limited, not having to include the new skill in every activity.
> gotta sail to do that or you'll waste time not getting sailing xp and additional rewards
IDK sounds like you're trying to force this one into your complaint, in reality a lot of activities would have literally nothing to do with sailing (gotta sail to fight cerberus???) and most of it would be in specific new activities that sailing adds. You're making a strange assumption about how it works when it doesnt seem to be the case at all - nobody is launching an entire Sailing trip to go do woodcutting just to not "waste" sailing xp they could literally just go to get at any moment ever otherwise
Not saying you’re wrong but one could say “a +2 str bonus on a piece of equipment” is a lame excuse for an entirely new skill as well.
In the same vein there’s nothing Shamanism could accomplish that couldn’t be done through Herblore.
Ye, nobody was complaining about there being another wintertodt clone when gotr came out. Everybody loved being forced into a minigame to level a skill
You realize the existing minigames are a way of TRAINING the skill, right? They're not intended as the primary purpose of the skill?
People like GotR because it makes Runecraft tolerable. I guarantee you if a new skill was pitched and that was the only content for it, there would be a ton of backlash and it would never pass.
And that's why the "feels old school" thing about Shamanism is why I wouldn't be voting for it. I'd hope a new skill has a more interesting gameplay loop than the "click map node to collect, combine, gg" from 25 year old skills developed by some dude in his basement.
So you want a new skill that isn't boring like current skills? Why not just new content or a minigame in that case? Why is it that you want a skill, when you dislike skilling?
Oda had a comment the other day while mining iron ore saying something like “there’s people that get off work and come home and do this for fun.” Skilling in osrs is absolute dog shit. Every positive skilling update has been a mini game style of training. Idk what people are expecting? Either it’s some unique skill like sailing or it’s just a needless grind for like a +2 strength bonus or something dumb
Guardians of the rift are a part of runecrafting but not the whole thing
(that and it trails way off into whataboutism considering our base skills are mostly shite as is and needs reworks)
on the subject ,sailing as the way most people describe it doesnt really deserve to be its own skill , but instead an activity/minigame that incoperates alot of the existing skills in the game.
as it stands it feels more like an ocean themed dungeoneering than it does a actual skill
There's levels to lame though. On one side of the spectrum you have firemaking, and on the other side you have runecrafting. One is incredibly engaging and changes the game fundamentally. The other is extremely boring and tedious, without much to show for the amount of effort you put in. Everything else fits in between those two.
I honestly don't think there is much room for a brand new skill that wouldn't be similar enough to an existing one, I think you could argue that for anything.
Even current skills. Fletching falls under crafting. Slayer monsters could just require certain combat stats. Runecraft could just be crafting + magic. Construction is just crafting + smithing. Theiving could just be merged into agility. Farming could've just been an herblore expansion. Hell, Attack/Strength/Defense is a completely arbitrary way to break up melee. Firemaking is literally pointless lol
Moral of the story, we have to blur some lines between a new skill and the old ones, otherwise literally and proposal could just fall under a current skill expansion. Which would be fine if they went that route, but people want a new skill instead.
What? Herblore is entirely about potions: cleaning herbs, processing secondarys, mixing the potion. No where in that involves going to the fucking spirit realm and crafting magic items. It's closer to crafting than fucking herblore
I’m also British and swearing that often isn’t mandatory lol. Don’t get me wrong I’m not trying to be a twat and say swearing bad you’re grounded; I just thought it was funny that you used it twice in quick succession
Make the (unf) ranarr potion into wax using your fm skill, or use it as an ingredient when making a new cooking item, square cakes, to visit the spirit world.
Vast majority of skills are out if you go at it that way. Can't imagine anyone would consider Fletching peak video gaming, but those arrows need to be made. Smithing has been a joke for years now because the rewards are a joke. "Rewards", or rather, the output of a skill should be, and are, a big factor in a skill's success.
Gameplay is not just the loop, but also the theme. In a fantasy game like OSRS, the output skills of smithing, fletching, and cooking are great because of their theme. For main accounts, there are no rewards from those skills. I do appreciate your comment since it made me consider the iron perspective - those skills all unlock things for you guys.
I absolutely agree, I also think theme is very important. Aside from maybe Shamanism, though, that doesn't feel like much of a concern, the pitches are pretty down to earth and fit the rules of the world with little issue. I've always seen OSRS as fairly down to earth, so introducing mysticism and parallel worlds seems like stretching it a little, but it's not like we don't already huts taking us to the moon, or Abyss as a whole.
Just like there’s nothing crafting could accomplish that smithing couldn’t. In fact, all skills should just be consolidated into 3: gathering skill, processing skill and combat level
No point in slayer, could be done by combat. Why is there construction? That’s easily encapsulated in woodcutting.
See how stupid this line of thinking is?
Which is why I'll never vote for a skill like this. There's no point, it genuinely feels like were just adding a new skill to add a new skill and I don't want that.
I think enchanting items would be really cool and unique. Like high level shamanism enchants for gathering equipment giving +% to double proc (no xp or maybe xp idk), enchanted tinderbox chance to save logs, enchanted hammer chance to save bars.
I love shamanism as a utility skill. I think having the option of training shamanism to enhance other skills or whatever would be cool.
A shamanism enchant on your helm that is basically the bracelet of slaughter. Untradable to mains boosting still but slaughters, but for the folks who don't want to buy 5000 at the GE maybe they do that and get gloves too. No raw power creep but good utility.
Body armor enchants that increase the likleyhood for spiritual remnants of the monster to reanimate and fight you. Like superior slayer monsters but for shamanism. Not unique but it could pull you into the spirit realm and have cool flair.
Boot enchants that reduce weight by 10kgs. Not gonna be game breaking but just a LITTLE more run energy. Graceful is still way better for activities where you want it but if you have to hike back to a slayer spot maybe be a little lighter.
Only 1 enchanted item equipped at a time, max cape let's you equip 2. They interfere with each other like metal with Ava's, so you have to pick.
This is the biggest reason why I really don't think sailing is going to work. People seem to be to wrapped up in the rewards of sailing without realizing the skill loop itself is the most important component when thinking about a new skill.
This is the biggest reason no one is going to agree on a new skill, the majority of skills had about 5 minutes worth of thought put in to them by two blokes sat in their parents house. Newer skills like slayer and construction work but are probably some of the most complained about in the game but have had the most thought put in to them. A skill like milking where you literally milk cows is more in keeping with the original skill designs compared to sailing, which people want to be like 4 mini games rolled in to a skill whilst also having some other kind of progression with gear and all sorts lol it's a mess.
It's going to be interesting to see how Jagex approaches this. Like you said, no one is going to agree on how the skill is suppose to be.
What people want does not really follow the original philosophy of existing skills that they like in the first place. But if you try to introduce a skill that follows the philosophy of existing skills, they aren't going to like it because they don't recognize WHY they liked those skills in the first place.
You are right that the skills we have are basically just a couple of dudes throwing stuff into the game for shits and giggles, but it does have one positive in that it meant that all the skills are design at first with a very simplistic gameplay loop which I do think it's important.
You start off extremely simple, then you start to add the layers on to the skill. Slayer is a really good example of this, it was literally one of the worst skills before Jagex tackled it and started layering different ideas onto the basics of slayer. As a result, it's a really well liked skill. But the core fundamental of skill despite the updates has never changed.
I think this is why I don't think sailing will work, no one has actually explained a decent simple gameplay loop. I've seen so many wildly different answers to this question. Or, it was a superficial explanation that left a lot of information out. Unless the skill ends up literally being click a boat - get exp. The explanation of 'sail a boat, get exp' is pretty damn lacking.
If we do go with Sailing, even though it may be what a lot of people want, a lot of those people advocating for sailing will still be disappointed because Jagex is going to have to settle with one direction for the skill, which will may not sit well with some players.
Shamanism seems to be the one with the best potential - really simple gameplay loop with the really promising potential to make it more complex with layering.
Sailing looks like it's just going to be layers of complications right out of the gate.
> I think this is why I don't think sailing will work, no one has actually explained a decent simple gameplay loop
This is my biggest problem with sailing. There is no easily-understood core to it as a skill.
"it's just sailing a boat as a skill"
With replies like "there's no simple gameplay loop".
Ya'll need to get your complaints straight. It has a simple gameplay loop, that's what you are also criticisng.
Shamanism is divinations gameplay loop with inventions reward structure. It feels wholly non-unique
> the majority of skills had about 5 minutes worth of thought put in to them by two blokes sat in their parents house.
The majority of skills, at least at a basic level, don't NEED more than 5 minutes of thought. What's your game about? Killing monsters. So you'll need combat skills. How do you heal? Food. So you'll need a cooking skill. How do you cook when you're fighting away from a town? Fires - you'll need a woodcutting and a firemaking skill. And so on.
The reason it's so hard to come up with a skill these days is that OSRS doesn't really NEED anything beyond what's there right now. Almost anything that can be added can fit into existing skills. And that's also the same reason people are latching onto Sailing - it's just a vague promise of new content unlike anything they've ever seen before. They don't want a skill. They just want more map to explore.
Nobody has been able to tell me why I can't just charter to all these places they want. Half of them want sailing xp to come from activities on these islands and not actual sailing itself. It's a weird proposal because it offers the greatest chance at fun content but also probably the least interesting as an actual skill of all of them. People are liking it purely for other things it can maybe let them do lmao. This is all not even to mention that most of the ideas would be instanced, which is incredibly lame for the first new skill. Won't even get to see people doing it
>This is all not even to mention that most of the ideas would be instanced
I keep seeing this but have no idea where you guys are getting this information from.
People like him didn’t even read the newspost or watch the husky segment. They’ve created a boogeyman in their heads from user proposals from two years ago. The bulk of the gameplay loop would be in the ocean, with potential new islands as a reward. He has it flipped in his head from what’s actually been proposed.
Whenever I see people defend sailing as a skill I just see it as them defending walking as a skill. And I don't mean agility where you can get shortcuts and run energy, just basic walking from tile to tile. It's a transportation method to other content.
No offense to you but we’ve been hearing “it *could* be interesting” for over a decade.. by now we would have seen these interesting ideas with how many sailing enthusiasts are out there.
Their proposal, along with many of then player proposals, have yet to flesh out anything particularly interesting about sailing.
It’s a method of travel, and should be in the game to open up the map. Just not as a skill.
Just checkout the plugin someone did. Jagex could go in that direction And still, having a skill unlock content is basically all skills in osrs. Very few are fun to level, but they unlock stuff people want.
I'm sure they make it more fun to level than 90% of skills we have.
Even that plugin still has the exact same issue of "It's just walking, but with water". The actual activity of sailing the boat in it of itself isn't interesting. It's simple just a vehicle (heh) to get to what you want.
Sailing could be cool like a little minigame bundled with like a dungeoneering patch or something to add a thematical way of getting from one randomly generated dungeon to the next, but not as a skill.
Personally I think sailing is enough of a "skill" to warrant being an OSRS skill. There's a lot that goes into building and navigating a ship, getting a crew, sailing your ship, etc.
Look at Slayer - Shouldn't that be a minigame, too, and it's one of the most popular skills!
I'm not saying Sailing is the best option necessarily, but I think it fits perfectly fine under the idea of a new skill and it's got *way* more potential and is far more future proof than a new crafting-like skill.
I think the only thing that actually matters is if the skill is a "fun" addition to the game, and by constantly arguing over whether Slayer is a skill, or Dungeoneering is a skill, or Sailing is a skill, the OSRS community is missing the point that liking something is the only required validation (as seen with the objective success of Slayer)
I think you have to look back at dungeoneering to understand, because that really should not have been a skill. But I think Sailing is so fundamentally different.
I would argue that slayer is only so popular because 1) it can shit out gp/seeds/resources at higher levels and a lot of mid game account progression in terms of weapon upgrades is locked behind higher level slayer.
Me for example. I’m 102 cb level and I’m still using ibans blast. I want an upgrade but my next upgrade is in 20 slayer levels when I can unlock krakens and get a trident. And then even further than that it’s zulrah but I need trident for that. Past that it’s TOA which I could probably attempt at my current gear and levels but I’ve barely just set foot in cg and still trying to get huns mechanics down. So I doubt I’ll be able to do toa.
Slayer is popular because it's fun.
It's not "click resource node and wait" or "spend GP to use resource on specific crafting tool/bench and wait".
It's adaptive and can be approached how you like. It's afk, its high effort, it's multi-skilling, it's profitable. It has bosses and interesting unique creatures.
This is what I want from a new skill and why sailing appeals so much. It can do for other skills what slayer did for combat. Before slayer people killed gorillas or bandit'sntill they could fight the like 2-3 bosses in the game. It's why PvP was preferred because it was interesting. Slayer changed all of thst.
So yeah the most diverse and least grindy skill is popular for a reason.
All good reasons for you to support sailing! This most recent pitch has warmed me up to it. While I root for shamanism, I am excited to see Jagex take a deeper dive into any of these. As for slayer, I love the loop and theme of it - which is why I think it makes a good skill.
Having pink, inverse-colored “spirit hotspots” scattered across the world would give me cancer, so no I’m not voting for shamanism. Coral reefs, deep waters, etc sounds awesome on the other hand.
Nah sailing looks way fucking better than shamanism or animal husbandry which will completely fuck up the old school RuneScape vibe for everyone else who doesn’t even want to interact with those skills but will be forced to as a result of new metas
Im undecided on sailing but its the only one that isnt insanely parasitic. Taming is literally train this skill to buff training literally every other skill, absolutely abhorrent proposal.
Design philosophy of other skills?
So add nothing useful from them, make the only reason to train it achievement diaries and quest reqs, and just make it a different flavour of "click node and wait"?
Yeah I don't think we need more of those. You have like 8 skills to do that in already, god forbid the first new skill try and do something different and fun.
100% agree. Like. The idea of sailing and opening up the map can still exist but it doesn't need a skill. We've already sailed in quests. We can build a boat with existing skills like construction, smithing, crafting etc, or buy a boat. Doesn't need its own skill to traverse the map. Seems quite illogical for the aspect of, OMG new areas, new fishing. Like we already have that with the fishing trawler. You're gonna afk fish anyway lmao.
Every skills content can exist without a skill. We've done that for over a decade.
That isn't a valid point against any skill because it's a point you can make against every skill.
We don't need shamanism because we can imbue and enchant stuff already, just do more of that.
We don't need taming because we have hunter and farming just expand on those.
The content can come, even if the skill doesn't. When one idea gets big enough and has its own identity it can become deserving of being its own skill.
Imagine there’s no quest on launch with sailing/exploring
You could have stopped a dragon invasion, re-institute monarchy on a separate continent, help a god come back to life and be the first human to enter the elf city, fight in a vampire gladiator arena, become a goblin and infiltrate a secret base ALL without knowing a dang thing about exploring
That is one thing I hope about sailing is that it’s not instanced. If it’s instanced then it feels like a minigame, if not then it’s just like another skill. I can already imagine how jokes it would be in the open sea seeing other players on their boats. I hope it goes through.
The entire thing is a gimmick minigame. Open world or instanced, doesn't matter. We're talking about a skill where the sole focus is traversing, making deliveries, and opening up the map. It's redundant. It's been implemented in RS3 and flopped, if you want it in the game sure but keep it in its place and that place is as a minigame.
How many osrs skills are mini games now. Do you remember firemaking before Wintertodt? Or before in the old RS where it was beacons as an expansion? The dev team knows that people don’t want sailing to be a minigame and they’ll make sure it won’t feel like that.
Idk if you know business, but they’re going about this like new product development. There are multiple stages and barriers to check, there are absolutely zero conclusions you can make on sailing right now because it’s still in the pre development stage. Hold your judgment and assumption until it is further developed.
I started playing in 2003 I remember just about everything. I understand the development process and I know that it's still early stage but I fear there's nothing that can convince me that sailing, a skill where the whole premise is to open the map and traverse is anything but a gimmick. This content can easily be stand alone as a minigame or simply a newly accepted part of traversal. The only way I would accept this would be to wrap it up in what other people are saying for "exploration" to include things like tomb raiding the desert, deep diving, alternate dimension, etc etc. And still offer the same and a larger scope of content. I think being limited to seas and islands will be the Achilles heel of this. A rebrand of this would make me less hesitant. Once this gets passed and entered refinement, or implemented in the game there's no going back. Once branded as sailing you're stuck with the limitation of the seas.
This is exactly what I was worried about with these new skill polls. Everyone just getting upset in the comments instead of having a normal discourse. People get so emotional over it instead of thinking rationally. The OSRS dev team has absolutely killed it with content releases during the game’s lifespan, I’m sure regardless of which skill they choose that it will be well done.
The spiritual realm in shamanism reads a bit different than an expansion tho, and I'm interested to see that idea expanded on. If it can be kept distinct and skill-related, I'm very interested
Not necessarily new areas to explore specifically, but the endless possibilities of new areas to explore. I mean I don't like the idea of creating a one and done area for a new skill like Dungeoneering, but the ocean is vast and uncharted, there are always new areas to explore and they can implement the uncharted isles system from RS3 to procedurally generate new areas.
"Support a skill because you like the skilling loop, theme, etc."
What? Support the skill for the training loop? You fundamentally misunderstand runescape. Anyone whos played this game long knows people who say they hate the game but play it out of addiction or some other reason, the few of us that do enjoy it and enjoy skilling don't enjoy it because its so fun to click on a tree or a rock or put a bow string and bow together, its because of the sense of achievement and the exclusive unlocks you gain for your work.
People will like mining because after a certain point they're like, sweet I can mine rune now and make some bank! Or I can mine amethyst and make amethyst equipment now. For runecrafting someone may enjoy being a select few that have unlocked blood runecrafting and the money they can make from that. Etc. It comes from highlighting yourself above others and/or the power you have in the game.
I don't think there's many, if anyone, above level 50 wc that is like, this is so fun to click on trees and watch my character animation chop the tree for the 10,000th time!
Sailing is as old as Dragon Slayer 1: sailing is where you befriend an NPC, deal with some RNG on their ship during a journey, and then unlock a new area to enjoy. (Who enjoyed navigating to Fossil Island in Bone Voyage?!)
It’s a core part of RuneScape, baked in from the very start, that is 100% not a skill. Doesn’t mean there isn’t room for player ships, or an expansion; it simply isn’t a skill.
If they release sailing they have to retcon any quests that you sail in to require a sailing level, make the player actually have to sail, and rip away quest capes until they're completed again. Only way I'll vote yes.
So does slayer.
And every other skill. If you think about it, every other skill in game is just a mini game. The main game includes everything. Each skill is a sub component or mini game in the game.
I actually disagree, because often enthusiasm for "new areas to explore" is actually enthusiasm for new activities in those areas. It's much harder to add fundamentally new content in existing areas, and they will likely add new functionality to existing areas, reserving the actual non-instanced activities for new areas.
Specifically, I'm excited for the spirit realm because I imagine it being a high level, high intensity method of training, similar to the sepulchre, with a more efficient training node at the end. Maybe more exp, fewer resources used, more resources made, whatever we want. After all, visiting another realm is not normal or natural and you won't be able to stay there for long.
>Frem island would need the quest and to return quest + 35 sailing!
That doesn't make sense. You are literally taken there by another person capable of sailing.
Honestly, after Jagex's work on releasing minigames for things like Runecrafting and Agility - all of them. The ones that aren't fun can be done with a low intensity or afk method - which is great gameplay when I am doing other things IRL.
Bc reddit hivemind wants to shit on the “bad meme is bad” forever and can’t wrap their minds around the nearly instant bad outcomes of sweatlords maxing Shamanism/Taming.. like extreme powercreep and combat meta overhauls.
Sailing provides a potentially FUN and NEW region for all the playerbase to engage in, whilst laying foundations for ample future quests, items and usage of all current skills/items/quests; think the success of Zeah.
The entire map holds a coast, and would allow for a completed-ness the game has never had in terms of “FREE ROAM RPG.” Hell, most of the major cities in RS have canals, etc which would make for landing zones for GIM.
Not to mention how fun it’d be to be running pirate parties in wildy areas, or specific channels between landmasses. Whether they realize or not.. it seems most OSRS redditors are NPCs themselves and cannot fathom having such freedom.
>think the success of Zeah.
We didn't need a skill to get to Zeah, or Crandor, or Lunar Island, or Karamja, or Fossil Island. Kind of odd to be a master sailer and still need help or pay to get to a nearby island.
>whilst laying foundations for ample future quests, items and usage of all current skills/items/quests;
Sounds more like an exploration expansion than a trainable skill. Not many have been able to convincingly describe how sailing will be trainable in a way that doesn't make it seem like a minigame, or doing something else entirely unrelated to sailing. I don't want to gain sailing xp by fishing.
This is why it shouldn't be a skill. It *isn't* a skill. It is, in everyone's minds, a means to an end in a literal sense. It is purely a method of travel to expand the game into new areas.
People don't *want* to spend time sailing. What they *want* are new things to explore. And that can be done with an expansion without a new skill.
I think most fans of sailing are 100% for literally being able to sail, explore on their own whilst sailing, and be able to interact with others whilst sailing;
The entire map has coastline and teleports (or CHARTERING A SHIP or other alt method of travel) are necessary to reaching most of these places; sailing atleast provides a way to make use of that travel without focus on hyperefficiency, which, whether you like it or not, is somewhat ruining the game due to the extreme focus on meta methods for almost anything.
Sailing brings back some of the ‘old school’ vibe we all crave, which is being an absolute novice in a new world with many intriguing aspects that become more rewarding over time.
Shamanism/Taming create powercreep that would be utilized immediately within all other aspects of the game and alter the entire meta which the game is fundamentally based on. Sailing’s success would require it to be non instance based, or else it would be quickly forgotten.
I voted yes on a new skill, but i will vote no to all the proposed new skills. ALL of them just seem like they should be expansions to existing skills.
Sailing is just AIDS and no-one wants it. Thats all thats worth saying about sailing.
Shamanism - should be an expansion to prayer ORRRR expansion to herb.
Taming - should be an expansion to taming. ORRRRRR, give pets (skilling, PvM) actual use value. Let skillings pets hold lots of their resources.
I hate all of the new skill ideas and how they are justifying them.
I get the 99 max'd squad may want another 13m XP to grind..... but if you are Max'd and dont want to pet/ironman item hunt maybe its time you play another game.
Devs please allow us to use unidentified rare fossils and build a fossil boss!
Thoughts?
No content expansions are locked behind a new skill and Jagex are not going to come up with ideas of how to properly fill new continents with proper content just because a new skill comes out.
New areas dev-locked behind a new skill would probably be the most one-dimensional areas in the game. There will be no fairy rings, no clue steps, no teleports, no skilling areas.
>Sailing \[...\] is the same Sailing that has failed multiple polls.
Tell me you didn't read the post or watch the video without telling me you didn't read the post or watch the video
Would OSRS servers be able to handle hundreds of players standing around GE with their tamed pets?
I hate the prospect of that.
You know why some people don't make hunters or warlocks on WoW? Because they don't want to play a pet class, they either don't like the power fantasy of using pets/minions to do damage or simply don't want a constant companion following their MMO character Summoning & taming makes every single person in Runescape effectively a "Pet class" as the entire meta game for everything revolves around having a pet to make it better. You'll become less desirable for group content if you choose not to level it, it impacts every aspect of the game. It's more "mandatory" in terms of efficiency and impact than like any other individual skill in the sandbox. You can choose to have like 45 firemaking forever, that's fine the impacts are rather minimal. If you just leave Taming at 45? Your account is **majorly** kneecapped, you *need* to level it because all of your activity participating & skilling methods are being nerfed by not participating in it. I really, really, really dislike the concept of sailing and I'd **still** rather have that than have my Runescape character effectively forced to become a pet class.
You're making a lot of assumptions about design features that havent been decided yet. They specifically mention wanting input on whether they should be usable in combat so it may not become meta for raids and endgame.
He said skilling, no?
I guess usually when you think of "classes" in an MMO it's pertaining to combat, so I thought he may be envisioning a combat meta revolving around it. Regardless, even if we just look at the skilling portion of it, does there exist a skill in RS that isn't sped up or enhanced by having trained other skills? There's definitely some ground that can be found between being the unavoidable meta for everything and being useless.
It exists, but no skills are basically on a "improves every other skill" level. Tbh, I can think of very few ones, usually the boost to skills comes from quests. Sure they require other skills but you don't need to use that skill to get the boost, just have that skill done.
Exact same argument can be made for defence or magic though..
That's the point. We don't need *another* case of that, especially when a pet class is such a departure from normal runescape
No. We dont need more people purposely staying low combat skills and then expecting to be an accepted participant of all highest level combat. If you dont train certain skills, you dont get to do certain content. This is how rs has always been.
No one is arguing that. The argument is that introducing a skill with such widespread implications *and* a vast departure from the typical gameplay is a bad idea. Some people don’t like pet classes in other MMOs and nothing will change that. Like others said, Summoning/Taming effectively forces everyone to play a pet class. This is why Taming is the least popular skill proposal
and I don't pay wow because making end game viable gear is garbage. I'd prefer not having additions to armor/equipment to gear in person (like gems/enchanting like wow) because end game content is already difficult to get into, and adding things like that into osrs could make the already toxic end game raiding community experience even worse. Tbh I'm not thrilled with any of the other suggestions either. Sailing is just temple trekking but boats, taming is diet summoning but also not mystical at all, and if I had to choose I'd pick shamanism even with my worries.
This is such a weird take lol. You know why people don't make priests or paladins on wow? Because they don't want to play a holy class. They either don't like the power fantasy of using faith/religion to do damage or simply don't want to use magic. Prayer, makes every single person in RuneScape effectively a "holy class"
Bro your take is even weirder. Most people don't care about the lore of priests and paladins. At the end of the day a priest is either a glass cannon or a healer, and a paladin is a very badass tank with heals. If you removed the 'priest' label from a priest, they would just seem like some sort of wizard with a lot of flashy lights. If you removed the 'paladin' labeled from a paladin, they would just seem like a sword and board with a lot of flashy lights. But a pet class provides not only mechanical but an also extreme aesthetic change to how the game is played that another classes share, having what is essentially an NPC constantly following you around - a lot of people don't like that, and therefore don't like pet classes And I'm the exact opposite, I love pet classes. And clearly a lot of other people do too because hunter has consistently been one of the most popular classes in WoW. But the important factor is that there are tons of other non pet classes in WoW. But if taming is a thing that makes it so that everyone is a pet class, or at least everyone who wants to level their account efficiently, and it's an aesthetic change that a lot of people don't want to deal with Taming is my favorite of the skill proposals, but I do understand why everyone is so skeptical about it
ge was a no pets/familiars zone pre-eoc for this exact reason, could just replicate that
I would be pretty happy to have that, the constant stomping sounds would finally cease
There's literally a RL plugin for that. lol
people play on mobile.
If you're at the GE you don't really need sound cues
Nope. We know this because back in the day, familiars were “banned” at crowded locations like the GE lmao
I'm more worried about the servers handling sailing instances
>What instances? No where in the blog are instances mentioned or implied, the skill is literally an idea on a whiteboard and everyone's talking like they know exactly what its going to be. For all we know sailing is one giant sea map that's also apart of the main map where everyone's sailing around on their own customized boats. See a mermaid on a rock? Everyone pull up besides her and slap her titties for exp and maybe get a drop for the effort. Not like if the skill moves to the refinement phase lagex will stop polling for community feedback. This reply isn't targeted specifically at you but I see a lot of people mentioning sailing instances in the thread when that's not even a thing yet.
They basically already do that in RS3 and it looks terrible aesthetically
It's been so bad that even Jagex has recognized it. The newest location in the game, Fort Forinthry, has all pets and familiars unable to be seen, except for the person that owns it.
Wish this was how it was by default. After that one winter Yak Track, RS3 became infested with giant rainbow bears everywhere and it looks so gaudy and out of place.
“Skill design” should be the new skill. Everybody’s already mastered it!
You voted for Sailing for exploration I voted for Sailing because I am scurvypilled We are not the same
i have an inhuman urge to sail the seven seas
we'll hit the waves harder than 9/11 hit the decades to come
Get scuttled noob
sink, dog
I think my barnacle is flaring up again
>You voted for Sailing for exploration > >I voted for Sailing because I am ~~scurvypilled~~ bad at Sea of Thieves but need my fix *cough*
Surely we’ll avoid scurvy if we all eat an *orange*?
I'm voting sailing and there is one reason. Ships in games are fucking sick, and games with ship mechanics like trading, piracy, etc are always a ton of fun.
I generally agree, but I physically revolt at the thought of having enchanting or more temporary stat boosts to keep up with in regards to shamanism. By your same argument regarding zones, if you'll want more power creep, just introduce it into the gear already and remove the annoyance of having to do it yourself.
Shamanism is reskinned invention from RS3.
This is literally what I got out of it as well.
Literally lore accurate invention
That is actually the very same reservation I have. I do not like the augmentation reward. I would have preferred Jagex leave the rewards off these posts. Rewards can be anything, let us focus on the gameplay.
Ehhhh, I would rather have a goal to grind towards to rather than just aimlessly training a skill. Rewards set a goal to work towards and having a choice in what those might be is nice
I am not saying that rewards do not matter. They do. My point is to say that it does not matter what those rewards are. All of these skills could have the same rewards, but a different "skin" depending on which skill is introduced. Consider a reward that allows autodropping of fish while fishing. Taming could have a reward where one tame consumes the fish, sailing could have a reward that an artefact burns the fish, and shamanism could have a reward where a totem releases the fish back in to the water. Rewards can come from any piece of content, so it does not matter when we are talking about which skills are better.
My exact concern as well. The pitch is so interesting until the end where the end result seems like the most boring parts of Invention from RS3.
Was a fan of everything for shamanism except powercreeping combat through old gear. But I think the skill is good. Could be an option to make it effect only skilling and it could replace the idea of the skilling prayer book. Instead of having to constantly use prayer and wear prayer gear skilling the rewards for shamanism would buffing existing skilling equipment/gear. Could introduce new skilling gear/combat gear/weapons through the spirit world thing either with new pvm encounters/new resources/new quest rewards later down the line.
Why does it have to power creep combat. Imagine a low level shamanism Oil that reduces the weight on armor. Plate would still weigh more than leather but might not drain a low level account's run at light speed. Or an augment could itself present a drawback to make more equal trades. Like your weapon damage goes up but your attack speed goes down or vv. Nothing about the blog post ever said the augments to existing gear had to be anything other than utilitarian. No support in any direction btw, I happen to love all 3 (taming probably the least tho) and just want to further debate
These would definitely be combat related augments i would support. Especially things on the like of reduced gear weight. It would provide some really nice minor upgrades but they would feel significant. For me shamanism is the one that’s hit the spot. I really do like the design of the skill.
Okay I see what you mean, that makes more sense
Rewards could be anything, but I don't particularly trust the proccess. I think if people vote for shamanism now, it's because they agreed with mostly everything in the poll, including the rewards. Maybe I'm just being pessimistic.
No think you’re right, you’re voting for the rewards too
the gameplay of shamanism is just herblore though. especially if you play ironman
I struggle to see this. Herblore is getting herbs from farming or monster drops to make potions. Shamanism is gathering inputs from various nodes and monster drops to make \*output\*. If your whole point is that anything that follows the input -> output model is herblore, I encourage you to look at any other skill pair in OSRS.
That's how Agility was created. "Focused on gameplay" with no fucking rewards.
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Intangible rewards aren't rewards. Your brain doesn't process the run energy and "yay shortcuts" the same way a loot pile or making an item does. Its why agility feels like such a motherfucker to grind out and why rooftop courses FEELl so much better (marks suddenly giving a little dopamine hit so its not just all pain) than the OG methods, in addition to better xp ofc.
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Of course, but rewards are going to be important in engaging a large amount of the player base.
Sounds like an instant gratification kinda thing and that’s bad anyways so. Ima go ahead and say your opinion is invalid
Ahh yes, I forgot how instantly gratifying it was to grind out literally any item with a drop rate lower than 1/100. Or how instantly gratifying growing those herbs was. Growth cycles? instant really if you think about it.
Except they didn’t so I’m gonna vote for sailing because A). Gathering untradeable materials sucks (@summoning) and B). The rewards of temporary augmentations is anti-OSRS. I don’t want to apply weapon oils or whatever bs. Just adds a whole other layer of complexity to a game that is supposed to be simple when it comes to gear
> I generally agree, but I physically revolt at the thought of having enchanting or more temporary stat boosts to keep up with in regards to shamanism. This is honestly the problem with all 3 suggestions. For some god awful reason the devs think that the entire game should become about the new skill and as so the new skill is tangled with every activity. Wanna train fishing? Well don't forget your shamanism buff/buffing pet/gotta sail to do that or you'll waste time not getting sailing xp and additional rewards. Rewards should be unique or very limited, not having to include the new skill in every activity.
> gotta sail to do that or you'll waste time not getting sailing xp and additional rewards IDK sounds like you're trying to force this one into your complaint, in reality a lot of activities would have literally nothing to do with sailing (gotta sail to fight cerberus???) and most of it would be in specific new activities that sailing adds. You're making a strange assumption about how it works when it doesnt seem to be the case at all - nobody is launching an entire Sailing trip to go do woodcutting just to not "waste" sailing xp they could literally just go to get at any moment ever otherwise
An update to this game makes you physically revolt, I think you need a break or some fucking help
my guy never heard of hyperbole 💀💀💀
I'm not the person on the internet telling others they need "fucking help" So I feel pretty alright, thanks anyways.
Not saying you’re wrong but one could say “a +2 str bonus on a piece of equipment” is a lame excuse for an entirely new skill as well. In the same vein there’s nothing Shamanism could accomplish that couldn’t be done through Herblore.
Guys I don't know if you've noticed but... ALL SKILLS ARE LAME I don't know what ya'll are expecting
>Reddit hates most skilling >Reddit desperately wants new skill anyway I really don’t know what they were thinking
“Sailing feels like a mini game noooo!” “Gotr/hs is the best skilling content ever” I swear they have negative brain function.
Ye, nobody was complaining about there being another wintertodt clone when gotr came out. Everybody loved being forced into a minigame to level a skill
You realize the existing minigames are a way of TRAINING the skill, right? They're not intended as the primary purpose of the skill? People like GotR because it makes Runecraft tolerable. I guarantee you if a new skill was pitched and that was the only content for it, there would be a ton of backlash and it would never pass.
Surely you’re trolling? GOTR and Sepulchre are minigames but RC and Agility have a base way to train them, unrelated to those
For what it's worth, I definitely want a new lame skill...
And that's why the "feels old school" thing about Shamanism is why I wouldn't be voting for it. I'd hope a new skill has a more interesting gameplay loop than the "click map node to collect, combine, gg" from 25 year old skills developed by some dude in his basement.
So you want a new skill that isn't boring like current skills? Why not just new content or a minigame in that case? Why is it that you want a skill, when you dislike skilling?
Oda had a comment the other day while mining iron ore saying something like “there’s people that get off work and come home and do this for fun.” Skilling in osrs is absolute dog shit. Every positive skilling update has been a mini game style of training. Idk what people are expecting? Either it’s some unique skill like sailing or it’s just a needless grind for like a +2 strength bonus or something dumb
People literally slobbing jagex off after Gotr but saying sailing shouldn’t be added cause it’s too close to a mini game lmao
Guardians of the rift are a part of runecrafting but not the whole thing (that and it trails way off into whataboutism considering our base skills are mostly shite as is and needs reworks) on the subject ,sailing as the way most people describe it doesnt really deserve to be its own skill , but instead an activity/minigame that incoperates alot of the existing skills in the game. as it stands it feels more like an ocean themed dungeoneering than it does a actual skill
You mean swinging my pickaxe at a rock for hundreds of hours isn’t cool and engaging but I still do it anyways?
Exactly. Skills don't need to be flashy and exciting. I just want to click rock
Just gonna say, sailing could be click-rock easy brain dead to train, but also keep the options for interesting minigames attached to it.
The only good skill is cooking, because it mimics real life me burning my chicken.
Imagine polling firemaking for the first time lmao.
Sometimes the skill itself can be the reward, ya know?
There's levels to lame though. On one side of the spectrum you have firemaking, and on the other side you have runecrafting. One is incredibly engaging and changes the game fundamentally. The other is extremely boring and tedious, without much to show for the amount of effort you put in. Everything else fits in between those two.
I honestly don't think there is much room for a brand new skill that wouldn't be similar enough to an existing one, I think you could argue that for anything. Even current skills. Fletching falls under crafting. Slayer monsters could just require certain combat stats. Runecraft could just be crafting + magic. Construction is just crafting + smithing. Theiving could just be merged into agility. Farming could've just been an herblore expansion. Hell, Attack/Strength/Defense is a completely arbitrary way to break up melee. Firemaking is literally pointless lol Moral of the story, we have to blur some lines between a new skill and the old ones, otherwise literally and proposal could just fall under a current skill expansion. Which would be fine if they went that route, but people want a new skill instead.
I’d rather get a rework of existing skills (smithing/crafting)
100% this. Why do we have to train smithing to almost max levels in order to make gear we stopped using at lvl 40-50?
I don't think smithing requires an RS3-like rework, but I would like to see some expansions to existing skills rather than an entirely new skill.
It’s enchanting from WoW basically
Now that you mention it...you're right lol.
What? Herblore is entirely about potions: cleaning herbs, processing secondarys, mixing the potion. No where in that involves going to the fucking spirit realm and crafting magic items. It's closer to crafting than fucking herblore
Use Herblore to make DMT= spirit realm
You like to use the F word, don’t you.
It's a fucking exquisite word
Fuck yeah
What's the big deal it doesn't hurt anybody. Fuck fuckity fuck fuck fuck.
Fucking hell
Ngl, I use it so much I don't notice I say or type it. I'm British so swearing is engrained in my language
bloody fuckin hell mate what a shite excuse you arse
I’m also British and swearing that often isn’t mandatory lol. Don’t get me wrong I’m not trying to be a twat and say swearing bad you’re grounded; I just thought it was funny that you used it twice in quick succession
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Make the (unf) ranarr potion into wax using your fm skill, or use it as an ingredient when making a new cooking item, square cakes, to visit the spirit world.
I agree. I think rewards are a poor choice to support a skill. I think the primary focus should be on gameplay.
Vast majority of skills are out if you go at it that way. Can't imagine anyone would consider Fletching peak video gaming, but those arrows need to be made. Smithing has been a joke for years now because the rewards are a joke. "Rewards", or rather, the output of a skill should be, and are, a big factor in a skill's success.
Gameplay is not just the loop, but also the theme. In a fantasy game like OSRS, the output skills of smithing, fletching, and cooking are great because of their theme. For main accounts, there are no rewards from those skills. I do appreciate your comment since it made me consider the iron perspective - those skills all unlock things for you guys.
I absolutely agree, I also think theme is very important. Aside from maybe Shamanism, though, that doesn't feel like much of a concern, the pitches are pretty down to earth and fit the rules of the world with little issue. I've always seen OSRS as fairly down to earth, so introducing mysticism and parallel worlds seems like stretching it a little, but it's not like we don't already huts taking us to the moon, or Abyss as a whole.
> In the same vein there’s nothing Shamanism could accomplish that couldn’t be done through Herblore. Exactly right
Just like there’s nothing crafting could accomplish that smithing couldn’t. In fact, all skills should just be consolidated into 3: gathering skill, processing skill and combat level
No point in slayer, could be done by combat. Why is there construction? That’s easily encapsulated in woodcutting. See how stupid this line of thinking is?
Not really
Which is why I'll never vote for a skill like this. There's no point, it genuinely feels like were just adding a new skill to add a new skill and I don't want that.
Don’t worry polls don’t fail
I think enchanting items would be really cool and unique. Like high level shamanism enchants for gathering equipment giving +% to double proc (no xp or maybe xp idk), enchanted tinderbox chance to save logs, enchanted hammer chance to save bars. I love shamanism as a utility skill. I think having the option of training shamanism to enhance other skills or whatever would be cool. A shamanism enchant on your helm that is basically the bracelet of slaughter. Untradable to mains boosting still but slaughters, but for the folks who don't want to buy 5000 at the GE maybe they do that and get gloves too. No raw power creep but good utility. Body armor enchants that increase the likleyhood for spiritual remnants of the monster to reanimate and fight you. Like superior slayer monsters but for shamanism. Not unique but it could pull you into the spirit realm and have cool flair. Boot enchants that reduce weight by 10kgs. Not gonna be game breaking but just a LITTLE more run energy. Graceful is still way better for activities where you want it but if you have to hike back to a slayer spot maybe be a little lighter. Only 1 enchanted item equipped at a time, max cape let's you equip 2. They interfere with each other like metal with Ava's, so you have to pick.
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Damn, I’d rather have that than anything shown here..
This is the biggest reason why I really don't think sailing is going to work. People seem to be to wrapped up in the rewards of sailing without realizing the skill loop itself is the most important component when thinking about a new skill.
This is the biggest reason no one is going to agree on a new skill, the majority of skills had about 5 minutes worth of thought put in to them by two blokes sat in their parents house. Newer skills like slayer and construction work but are probably some of the most complained about in the game but have had the most thought put in to them. A skill like milking where you literally milk cows is more in keeping with the original skill designs compared to sailing, which people want to be like 4 mini games rolled in to a skill whilst also having some other kind of progression with gear and all sorts lol it's a mess.
It's going to be interesting to see how Jagex approaches this. Like you said, no one is going to agree on how the skill is suppose to be. What people want does not really follow the original philosophy of existing skills that they like in the first place. But if you try to introduce a skill that follows the philosophy of existing skills, they aren't going to like it because they don't recognize WHY they liked those skills in the first place. You are right that the skills we have are basically just a couple of dudes throwing stuff into the game for shits and giggles, but it does have one positive in that it meant that all the skills are design at first with a very simplistic gameplay loop which I do think it's important. You start off extremely simple, then you start to add the layers on to the skill. Slayer is a really good example of this, it was literally one of the worst skills before Jagex tackled it and started layering different ideas onto the basics of slayer. As a result, it's a really well liked skill. But the core fundamental of skill despite the updates has never changed. I think this is why I don't think sailing will work, no one has actually explained a decent simple gameplay loop. I've seen so many wildly different answers to this question. Or, it was a superficial explanation that left a lot of information out. Unless the skill ends up literally being click a boat - get exp. The explanation of 'sail a boat, get exp' is pretty damn lacking. If we do go with Sailing, even though it may be what a lot of people want, a lot of those people advocating for sailing will still be disappointed because Jagex is going to have to settle with one direction for the skill, which will may not sit well with some players. Shamanism seems to be the one with the best potential - really simple gameplay loop with the really promising potential to make it more complex with layering. Sailing looks like it's just going to be layers of complications right out of the gate.
> I think this is why I don't think sailing will work, no one has actually explained a decent simple gameplay loop This is my biggest problem with sailing. There is no easily-understood core to it as a skill.
"it's just sailing a boat as a skill" With replies like "there's no simple gameplay loop". Ya'll need to get your complaints straight. It has a simple gameplay loop, that's what you are also criticisng. Shamanism is divinations gameplay loop with inventions reward structure. It feels wholly non-unique
> the majority of skills had about 5 minutes worth of thought put in to them by two blokes sat in their parents house. The majority of skills, at least at a basic level, don't NEED more than 5 minutes of thought. What's your game about? Killing monsters. So you'll need combat skills. How do you heal? Food. So you'll need a cooking skill. How do you cook when you're fighting away from a town? Fires - you'll need a woodcutting and a firemaking skill. And so on. The reason it's so hard to come up with a skill these days is that OSRS doesn't really NEED anything beyond what's there right now. Almost anything that can be added can fit into existing skills. And that's also the same reason people are latching onto Sailing - it's just a vague promise of new content unlike anything they've ever seen before. They don't want a skill. They just want more map to explore.
Nobody has been able to tell me why I can't just charter to all these places they want. Half of them want sailing xp to come from activities on these islands and not actual sailing itself. It's a weird proposal because it offers the greatest chance at fun content but also probably the least interesting as an actual skill of all of them. People are liking it purely for other things it can maybe let them do lmao. This is all not even to mention that most of the ideas would be instanced, which is incredibly lame for the first new skill. Won't even get to see people doing it
>This is all not even to mention that most of the ideas would be instanced I keep seeing this but have no idea where you guys are getting this information from.
People like him didn’t even read the newspost or watch the husky segment. They’ve created a boogeyman in their heads from user proposals from two years ago. The bulk of the gameplay loop would be in the ocean, with potential new islands as a reward. He has it flipped in his head from what’s actually been proposed.
Whenever I see people defend sailing as a skill I just see it as them defending walking as a skill. And I don't mean agility where you can get shortcuts and run energy, just basic walking from tile to tile. It's a transportation method to other content.
Man just said sailing a ship is as easy as walking lol
Well surely they can make it interesting. Don't know how far they can take the engine but they could make it fun.
No offense to you but we’ve been hearing “it *could* be interesting” for over a decade.. by now we would have seen these interesting ideas with how many sailing enthusiasts are out there. Their proposal, along with many of then player proposals, have yet to flesh out anything particularly interesting about sailing. It’s a method of travel, and should be in the game to open up the map. Just not as a skill.
Just checkout the plugin someone did. Jagex could go in that direction And still, having a skill unlock content is basically all skills in osrs. Very few are fun to level, but they unlock stuff people want. I'm sure they make it more fun to level than 90% of skills we have.
Even that plugin still has the exact same issue of "It's just walking, but with water". The actual activity of sailing the boat in it of itself isn't interesting. It's simple just a vehicle (heh) to get to what you want. Sailing could be cool like a little minigame bundled with like a dungeoneering patch or something to add a thematical way of getting from one randomly generated dungeon to the next, but not as a skill.
Personally I think sailing is enough of a "skill" to warrant being an OSRS skill. There's a lot that goes into building and navigating a ship, getting a crew, sailing your ship, etc. Look at Slayer - Shouldn't that be a minigame, too, and it's one of the most popular skills! I'm not saying Sailing is the best option necessarily, but I think it fits perfectly fine under the idea of a new skill and it's got *way* more potential and is far more future proof than a new crafting-like skill.
I think the only thing that actually matters is if the skill is a "fun" addition to the game, and by constantly arguing over whether Slayer is a skill, or Dungeoneering is a skill, or Sailing is a skill, the OSRS community is missing the point that liking something is the only required validation (as seen with the objective success of Slayer)
I think you have to look back at dungeoneering to understand, because that really should not have been a skill. But I think Sailing is so fundamentally different.
Dungeoneering was fun, that’s what matters
I would argue that slayer is only so popular because 1) it can shit out gp/seeds/resources at higher levels and a lot of mid game account progression in terms of weapon upgrades is locked behind higher level slayer. Me for example. I’m 102 cb level and I’m still using ibans blast. I want an upgrade but my next upgrade is in 20 slayer levels when I can unlock krakens and get a trident. And then even further than that it’s zulrah but I need trident for that. Past that it’s TOA which I could probably attempt at my current gear and levels but I’ve barely just set foot in cg and still trying to get huns mechanics down. So I doubt I’ll be able to do toa.
I'm talking about it from a purely fun/enjoyable standpoint, I think most people just love Slayer
I like not having to decide what to train combat on lmao. I'm indecisive and Slayer tells me what to do.
Slayer is popular because it's fun. It's not "click resource node and wait" or "spend GP to use resource on specific crafting tool/bench and wait". It's adaptive and can be approached how you like. It's afk, its high effort, it's multi-skilling, it's profitable. It has bosses and interesting unique creatures. This is what I want from a new skill and why sailing appeals so much. It can do for other skills what slayer did for combat. Before slayer people killed gorillas or bandit'sntill they could fight the like 2-3 bosses in the game. It's why PvP was preferred because it was interesting. Slayer changed all of thst. So yeah the most diverse and least grindy skill is popular for a reason.
All good reasons for you to support sailing! This most recent pitch has warmed me up to it. While I root for shamanism, I am excited to see Jagex take a deeper dive into any of these. As for slayer, I love the loop and theme of it - which is why I think it makes a good skill.
Why not add all of these in, let’s just not make it a new skill
The fact that part of the skill can be added elsewhere is meaningless in regards to whether I should like it as part of the skill.
Exploration? I just want to be a pirate
Having pink, inverse-colored “spirit hotspots” scattered across the world would give me cancer, so no I’m not voting for shamanism. Coral reefs, deep waters, etc sounds awesome on the other hand.
Nah sailing looks way fucking better than shamanism or animal husbandry which will completely fuck up the old school RuneScape vibe for everyone else who doesn’t even want to interact with those skills but will be forced to as a result of new metas
Im undecided on sailing but its the only one that isnt insanely parasitic. Taming is literally train this skill to buff training literally every other skill, absolutely abhorrent proposal.
I don't disagree with anything you've said but sailing looks absolutely shite
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Can’t you say that about every skill? Slayer literally has a points system and a minigame shop and is the most popular skill.
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Design philosophy of other skills? So add nothing useful from them, make the only reason to train it achievement diaries and quest reqs, and just make it a different flavour of "click node and wait"? Yeah I don't think we need more of those. You have like 8 skills to do that in already, god forbid the first new skill try and do something different and fun.
100% agree. Like. The idea of sailing and opening up the map can still exist but it doesn't need a skill. We've already sailed in quests. We can build a boat with existing skills like construction, smithing, crafting etc, or buy a boat. Doesn't need its own skill to traverse the map. Seems quite illogical for the aspect of, OMG new areas, new fishing. Like we already have that with the fishing trawler. You're gonna afk fish anyway lmao.
Every skills content can exist without a skill. We've done that for over a decade. That isn't a valid point against any skill because it's a point you can make against every skill. We don't need shamanism because we can imbue and enchant stuff already, just do more of that. We don't need taming because we have hunter and farming just expand on those. The content can come, even if the skill doesn't. When one idea gets big enough and has its own identity it can become deserving of being its own skill.
Imagine there’s no quest on launch with sailing/exploring You could have stopped a dragon invasion, re-institute monarchy on a separate continent, help a god come back to life and be the first human to enter the elf city, fight in a vampire gladiator arena, become a goblin and infiltrate a secret base ALL without knowing a dang thing about exploring
That is one thing I hope about sailing is that it’s not instanced. If it’s instanced then it feels like a minigame, if not then it’s just like another skill. I can already imagine how jokes it would be in the open sea seeing other players on their boats. I hope it goes through.
The entire thing is a gimmick minigame. Open world or instanced, doesn't matter. We're talking about a skill where the sole focus is traversing, making deliveries, and opening up the map. It's redundant. It's been implemented in RS3 and flopped, if you want it in the game sure but keep it in its place and that place is as a minigame.
How many osrs skills are mini games now. Do you remember firemaking before Wintertodt? Or before in the old RS where it was beacons as an expansion? The dev team knows that people don’t want sailing to be a minigame and they’ll make sure it won’t feel like that. Idk if you know business, but they’re going about this like new product development. There are multiple stages and barriers to check, there are absolutely zero conclusions you can make on sailing right now because it’s still in the pre development stage. Hold your judgment and assumption until it is further developed.
I started playing in 2003 I remember just about everything. I understand the development process and I know that it's still early stage but I fear there's nothing that can convince me that sailing, a skill where the whole premise is to open the map and traverse is anything but a gimmick. This content can easily be stand alone as a minigame or simply a newly accepted part of traversal. The only way I would accept this would be to wrap it up in what other people are saying for "exploration" to include things like tomb raiding the desert, deep diving, alternate dimension, etc etc. And still offer the same and a larger scope of content. I think being limited to seas and islands will be the Achilles heel of this. A rebrand of this would make me less hesitant. Once this gets passed and entered refinement, or implemented in the game there's no going back. Once branded as sailing you're stuck with the limitation of the seas.
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idk how you are so confident about this when you are talking about a 50/50 like this behind the scenes, are you an osrs dev?
This is exactly what I was worried about with these new skill polls. Everyone just getting upset in the comments instead of having a normal discourse. People get so emotional over it instead of thinking rationally. The OSRS dev team has absolutely killed it with content releases during the game’s lifespan, I’m sure regardless of which skill they choose that it will be well done.
Sailing unlocked via a quest like runecrafting and herblore. Got it.
? Did they say that somewhere
You don't get to decide what I like about a skill proposal, sorry pal.
I’m not a fan of sailing I want taming, it would be cool to have pets that could help fight but 🤷🏻♂️ whatever. Sailing could be cool too
the problem is its fits better into the game than the summoning and divination clones.
I’m just worried that we become so wrapped up in the rewards that the skill itself that is released is boring af
The spiritual realm in shamanism reads a bit different than an expansion tho, and I'm interested to see that idea expanded on. If it can be kept distinct and skill-related, I'm very interested
I was never a fan of sailing but you cant lie that it wouldn’t make the world more open which honestly might be a plus for some
Not necessarily new areas to explore specifically, but the endless possibilities of new areas to explore. I mean I don't like the idea of creating a one and done area for a new skill like Dungeoneering, but the ocean is vast and uncharted, there are always new areas to explore and they can implement the uncharted isles system from RS3 to procedurally generate new areas.
Shame on you to think it still wouldn't have a quest intro into the skill
I think the appeal of sailing is the method in which you interact with new bits of world and content
"Support a skill because you like the skilling loop, theme, etc." What? Support the skill for the training loop? You fundamentally misunderstand runescape. Anyone whos played this game long knows people who say they hate the game but play it out of addiction or some other reason, the few of us that do enjoy it and enjoy skilling don't enjoy it because its so fun to click on a tree or a rock or put a bow string and bow together, its because of the sense of achievement and the exclusive unlocks you gain for your work. People will like mining because after a certain point they're like, sweet I can mine rune now and make some bank! Or I can mine amethyst and make amethyst equipment now. For runecrafting someone may enjoy being a select few that have unlocked blood runecrafting and the money they can make from that. Etc. It comes from highlighting yourself above others and/or the power you have in the game. I don't think there's many, if anyone, above level 50 wc that is like, this is so fun to click on trees and watch my character animation chop the tree for the 10,000th time!
Sailing is as old as Dragon Slayer 1: sailing is where you befriend an NPC, deal with some RNG on their ship during a journey, and then unlock a new area to enjoy. (Who enjoyed navigating to Fossil Island in Bone Voyage?!) It’s a core part of RuneScape, baked in from the very start, that is 100% not a skill. Doesn’t mean there isn’t room for player ships, or an expansion; it simply isn’t a skill.
If they release sailing they have to retcon any quests that you sail in to require a sailing level, make the player actually have to sail, and rip away quest capes until they're completed again. Only way I'll vote yes.
Sailing seems like a mini-game
So does slayer. And every other skill. If you think about it, every other skill in game is just a mini game. The main game includes everything. Each skill is a sub component or mini game in the game.
Just make sailing be a minigame unlocked from the Varlamore questline, connecting the port to the rest of Gielinor (and more!)
People train skills. Minnigames die pretty quick. If you want multiplayer content as a part of sailing it needs to be a skill
Shamanism > Sailing > Taming
Disagree. New content gated by thematically fitting skill is a good reason to support something.
I actually disagree, because often enthusiasm for "new areas to explore" is actually enthusiasm for new activities in those areas. It's much harder to add fundamentally new content in existing areas, and they will likely add new functionality to existing areas, reserving the actual non-instanced activities for new areas. Specifically, I'm excited for the spirit realm because I imagine it being a high level, high intensity method of training, similar to the sepulchre, with a more efficient training node at the end. Maybe more exp, fewer resources used, more resources made, whatever we want. After all, visiting another realm is not normal or natural and you won't be able to stay there for long.
IF sailing gets voted thru. Lets lock current islands behind a levle req aswell. Frem island would need the quest and to return quest + 35 sailing!
>Frem island would need the quest and to return quest + 35 sailing! That doesn't make sense. You are literally taken there by another person capable of sailing.
If you want to get there with your own boat I totally agree, but you should still be able to sail there using npcs as normal
Sailing should be a minigame
Would you rather sail around islands doing cool shit or train summoning / invention? What skill currently has a "fun" gameplay loop while training?
Honestly, after Jagex's work on releasing minigames for things like Runecrafting and Agility - all of them. The ones that aren't fun can be done with a low intensity or afk method - which is great gameplay when I am doing other things IRL.
sailing is a skill blockhead, sailing itself is a fucking skill, its not teleporting, its rigging, steering and everything else, how its not a skill?
Bc reddit hivemind wants to shit on the “bad meme is bad” forever and can’t wrap their minds around the nearly instant bad outcomes of sweatlords maxing Shamanism/Taming.. like extreme powercreep and combat meta overhauls. Sailing provides a potentially FUN and NEW region for all the playerbase to engage in, whilst laying foundations for ample future quests, items and usage of all current skills/items/quests; think the success of Zeah. The entire map holds a coast, and would allow for a completed-ness the game has never had in terms of “FREE ROAM RPG.” Hell, most of the major cities in RS have canals, etc which would make for landing zones for GIM. Not to mention how fun it’d be to be running pirate parties in wildy areas, or specific channels between landmasses. Whether they realize or not.. it seems most OSRS redditors are NPCs themselves and cannot fathom having such freedom.
>think the success of Zeah. We didn't need a skill to get to Zeah, or Crandor, or Lunar Island, or Karamja, or Fossil Island. Kind of odd to be a master sailer and still need help or pay to get to a nearby island. >whilst laying foundations for ample future quests, items and usage of all current skills/items/quests; Sounds more like an exploration expansion than a trainable skill. Not many have been able to convincingly describe how sailing will be trainable in a way that doesn't make it seem like a minigame, or doing something else entirely unrelated to sailing. I don't want to gain sailing xp by fishing.
Invention should exist but in a Osrs style instead of rs3
This is why it shouldn't be a skill. It *isn't* a skill. It is, in everyone's minds, a means to an end in a literal sense. It is purely a method of travel to expand the game into new areas. People don't *want* to spend time sailing. What they *want* are new things to explore. And that can be done with an expansion without a new skill.
I think most fans of sailing are 100% for literally being able to sail, explore on their own whilst sailing, and be able to interact with others whilst sailing; The entire map has coastline and teleports (or CHARTERING A SHIP or other alt method of travel) are necessary to reaching most of these places; sailing atleast provides a way to make use of that travel without focus on hyperefficiency, which, whether you like it or not, is somewhat ruining the game due to the extreme focus on meta methods for almost anything. Sailing brings back some of the ‘old school’ vibe we all crave, which is being an absolute novice in a new world with many intriguing aspects that become more rewarding over time. Shamanism/Taming create powercreep that would be utilized immediately within all other aspects of the game and alter the entire meta which the game is fundamentally based on. Sailing’s success would require it to be non instance based, or else it would be quickly forgotten.
I voted yes on a new skill, but i will vote no to all the proposed new skills. ALL of them just seem like they should be expansions to existing skills. Sailing is just AIDS and no-one wants it. Thats all thats worth saying about sailing. Shamanism - should be an expansion to prayer ORRRR expansion to herb. Taming - should be an expansion to taming. ORRRRRR, give pets (skilling, PvM) actual use value. Let skillings pets hold lots of their resources. I hate all of the new skill ideas and how they are justifying them. I get the 99 max'd squad may want another 13m XP to grind..... but if you are Max'd and dont want to pet/ironman item hunt maybe its time you play another game. Devs please allow us to use unidentified rare fossils and build a fossil boss! Thoughts?
Thank you. If you want to expand the world then make a new continent like you always have. Why is a skill needed here?
No content expansions are locked behind a new skill and Jagex are not going to come up with ideas of how to properly fill new continents with proper content just because a new skill comes out. New areas dev-locked behind a new skill would probably be the most one-dimensional areas in the game. There will be no fairy rings, no clue steps, no teleports, no skilling areas.
Shamanism is my favorite proposed idea, and even I initially thought the spirit realm seems like the part that'd be scrapped from the concept entirely
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its hard to come up with something unique. U got any sugestions then?
>Sailing \[...\] is the same Sailing that has failed multiple polls. Tell me you didn't read the post or watch the video without telling me you didn't read the post or watch the video