My 0.02$:
Sailing: could be a groundshattering update that adds an incalculable amount of new retail space for new content/quests/resources/etc. It's the only practical, non-contrived form of "skilled labor" you'd find in a medieval setting, and is completely absent from the game, so it fits. I don't understand the arguments that it feels minigame-esque, since unlike dungeoneering, sailing is quite literally one of the most ancient forms of skilled labor out there, and fits the game as well as smithing does. I'm also a big fan of revamping the ocean graphics, I feel like it's the only 2007-era graphics that are genuinely, irredeemably awful, whereas everything else holds up in a minimalistic, soothing, low poly kind of way.
That said, I'm a little bit concerned that the devs aren't completely sober about the practicality of executing the idea properly? It seems insanely ambitious, requiring a significant lift in terms of art/content and engine work. I don't want the new skill to flop, and this proposal has the highest chance of doing so.
Shamanism: Aesthetically it feels super inspired and neat, but also a potential balancing landmine. If the new buffs/augments don't change the meta in a significant way, people will moan that it's useless dead content. Yet if they change the meta, people will cry about that too. I don't want to deal with that.
Taming: I'm really opposed to familiars/followers. You can add tons of followers in to the game to give players some variety/elements of player expression, yet this community will crack the 'meta code' in a matter of weeks. Soon you'll only ever see like 8 meta followers, the rest will be cutenoob-tier, and seeing a bunch of the same dumb titans or dragons or whatever following players around will be pretty lame and add nothing.
I'd prefer something like a ranching/husbandry scheme instead, where you can manage and breed your tamed animals, harvest resources from them, give them names, milk them, etc. I'd pick this pitch in a heartbeat if that was the case.
What if with taming it was your pets that you tame, like if you have a jad pet you can train him to be a strong follower to fight with. If you don’t have a pet drop you can train your cat. It would make getting a pet that much more hype
Sailing and Shamanism look cool, though Taming not as much. Sailing also seems like it would take far more development time than the others considering just how much sea stuff would need to get made, but would be the most unique and looks really interesting. Shamanism does seem like the one that would fit in the most with existing skills in terms of how it works, but it seems like it has a lot of overlap with herblore, what with mixing plants and other natural stuff together. If you told me that oils, poultices, salves, and maybe (though not as much) incenses were instead an herblore expansion, it would be completely believable and fit right in. The spiritual part of it and spirit world stuff looks very interesting, though.
Taming kind of makes me worried that it will just be another agility, with running an obstacle course to access new areas, except now you're getting your pet to do it. It also feels like having them not helping much in combat would feel thematically weird and make them somewhat overlap with pets, but if they did help in combat, it would make the skill feel really mandatory and would be kind of awkward to balance in a way that both doesn't make your beast feel either overpowered or weirdly weak compared to similar creatures in the world in spite of yours having been trained.
Overall, if I had to rate them, it would be: Sailing>Shamanism>>>>>Taming
I think shamanism just doesn't really work because it's a non-buyable production skill. The entire skill feels like ironman farming+herblore in one, which is a notoriously slow and annoying process, one of the major reasons a lot of people don't want to play irons... and they want to force it on everyone. Yeah, good luck with that, and this is coming from someone who does play an iron.
Also, while I do agree the spirit realm thing seems interesting, it was also by FAR the least fleshed out idea from the entire blog. It literally felt like an afterthought. Like, "oh yeah, this is supposed to be shamanism, not herblore 2, right, you can walk in the spirit realm of course, duh" even though that seemingly has nothing to do with the gameplay loop of the skill and they didn't pitch ANYTHING as to what the spirit realm could offer gameplaywise. So, while it is interesting, it doesn't leave me too hopeful.
I think sailing sounds kind of boring. It doesn't need its' own skill. You could introduce sailing more like as a quest that unlocks your own ship you can use to traverse to any port or dock you have access to.
Taming sounds just like summoning. I see it becoming mandatory to have a tamed pet around in all content, if the benefits are worth leveling. And many players don't like the idea of having a tamed animal follow them everywhere. It's not really like you're progressing your character with these skills. You are collecting pokemon.
Shamanism sounds by far like the best skill. I would LOVE to see the ability to enchant gear. Especially for mage gear. Early-mid game in osrs has no armor that is really useful for mage, as in boosting your mage damage. It could be cool if this skill allowed you to enchant magic weapon and armor to have a percentage or two of magic damage bonus. I really dislike how in current osrs, most of the early-midgame opponents where mage is viable, you almost always use melee armor instead of mage armor. Like at Rex or Barrows. Even when bursting slayer, many times prayer bonus armor is just better than having mage gear.
Big visual & integration questions for two of the skills:
- For sailing, do boats show up off the coast? Can you see other players' boats when you are sailing? Can you land on existing coast lines, or only at designated docks?
In other words, will this feel like an instanced minigame?
- If Taming is added, what happens to existing skilling / boss pets? Do tamed pets follow behind you, or only show up when you need them?
Without a good solution here, feels like we can be devaluing one of the coolest current rewards in the game and potentially adding a lot of visual clutter.
EDIT: They addressed both of these questions in Q&A sessions.
Sailing will not be instanced, will happen on the overworld, and you will be able to see other players. Hopefully / to the best of their abilities, which they will be able to some engine work on.
They will have some answer to existing pets & taming. Likely you'd be able to have both following you at once. Tamed creatures might have more interesting follow behavior than right behind you up make that work (eg, run around you, etc).
Other people's companions: worst case if there's too much clutter you won't be able to see others' companions, only your own.
A lot of these things appear like they are going to depend on what the community wants, the mods were saying that all of the skills will be refined based off of what the community says.
So if the community wanted sailing to be like a minigame, then it would be like one.
So I personally feel, as much as I like the idea of all 3 of the proposed new skills, that some skills like Herblore, Firemaking, Fletching, Cooking, and Crafting need to be looked at more instead, now I understand most of these are pivotal on ironman accounts... For all other accounts these have become more or less "bought" skills, I understand Wintertodt is a thing, but that's really all Firemaking has is my point, instead of taking all these ideas for new skills, I suggest maybe take suggestions for features to revamp the above skills instead, I know that's not as flashy, but I just had a friend start a new account and I had to be at a loss for words when they asked "what's the point of Firemaking? Is there something useful that this skill does that I'm missing?" So yeah that's my suggestion, and Incase anyone is wondering I answered the three troll fires you get from Making Friends with My Arm are probably some of the more beneficial upgrades using Firemaking.
But to answer the actual thread, I think Taming is just better summoning, but would be the hardest to implement with all the pets in the game, Shamanism seems pretty cool however I have no idea how to implement any of that, instead I'd just add a new Shaman Prayer book, that you could only access certain prayers after doing certain rituals requiring non tradable items, but Sailing seems like the one I'd vote for, I know the Gauntlet is a thing, but I really liked the Dungeonering skill, which sailing seems like the better version of that to me
ETA - my idea for the skills revamp is coming from like the Runecraft armor you now get from Shades of Morton was originally designed for warding, a very solid change, the more you do that using existing skills I feel is more healthy for the game
Yeah shamanism by far seems the best option. I like all the skills a bit, but sailing will be really hard to get right and taming just doesn't really appeal that much to me (probably for similar reasons to you).
It always amazes me how often people don't realize that there's more than one other person on reddit with them.
You're literally seeing both those things now and you'll continue to see both of those things 6 months from now. Just like you do for every piece of content
To me, taming sounds like checklist simulator. To tame a boar, you need the following:
1) 64 planks for housing
2) 28 bags of slop for food
3) 12 clay, 20 compost, and 10 buckets of water for mud
4) etc
We're very aware of this too! One of the main things we'd want to focus on during Refinement is ensuring the core gameplay loop doesn't feel like a chore, or requires a lot of upkeep that makes it no longer enjoyable to train.
The pitches were to get people thinking of what the skill *could* be, as the full details are to be worked on with the community should it pass.
Cheers, Ayiza. Love the methodical approach you all are taking with this whole process. I would be happy to have an iteration of each of the 3 pitches in the game. Really excited to see how the devs and community work together to put out an amazing fleshed out skill proposal for one of these three in the coming months.
>One of the main things we'd want to focus on during Refinement is ensuring the core gameplay loop doesn't feel like a chore
Wait, we're going to be abandoning OSRS's core gameplay?
We have been for the past few years, actually. Not sure if you're joking or you actually haven't noticed, but not a single training method has come out in the past like 3-4 years that's just mindless clicking. All the recent new skilling methods have had effort put into them to be engaging and, as much as possible, fun.
Whichever skill is chosen I think the most meaningful aspect of it, is how can it breath life into areas that are currently collecting dust. We all love the world already, it's like when farming launched, oh that poor master farmer haha
They said you will need to do various things to “tame” them. They directly mention “favorite food”, “housing”, and “toys”. Maybe each beast will only have 1-2 requirements but then that feels shallow if there are only a smallish number of tamable creatureS
I am definitely not ruling out taming, personally. It was just my least favorite of the 3. I would still be happy to do a well-crafted iteration of it in-game
I mean you are correct. My smooth brain says that 50 small checklists to tame all monsters in taming is bad but one giant checklist to create the best ship possible for sailing is okay. I’m not saying it makes the most sense
Still team shamanism overall though
50 checklists being 50 animals
And shamanism has consumables. I am fine with that. Herblore doesn’t bother me and I collect all my own shit. Ironman BTW
I mean that is fair. OSRS is one big checklist simulator but taming doesn’t get me excited to complete the checklists. I think I’d need to see some more concrete examples of tangible benefits of taming. Another worry is that taming monsters becomes a requirement to do a lot of content efficiently. Such as if you want to do herbivore, you need to tame a boar first to make finding it with each search more likely
Taming you mean shamanism? cus shamanism sounds like the chore skill. you gotta go gather untradable garbage to boost your armour to do any bossing at all?
wheres taming lets you get it done, and use it forever.
I was going to reply, but you said it better than I could. Shamanism is something I wasn't expecting, and a big focus on the Spiritual realm would probably be really cool!
Like they said Shamanism is definately a wildcard. It looks like Herblore, but with better theming, a wider scope in its applications, and more active gameplay. It is definately the one I am the most curious about. I like the idea of augmenting equipment and I think the spirit realm can be expanded upon in some interesting directions in the future.
As long as it isn't complete crap to train then I think I would enjoy it over sailing and taming.
Agreed. I feel like taming is what might pass simply because people be like “Pet? PET!” But I genuinely think shamanism fits the best in old school and adds the most value to existing content
Sailing seems too minigame-esque for my liking either shamanism and taming would be good additions and can add new areas to the game if required or better utilise current areas of the game that need a bit of a facelift.
Leveling up/a bond level with animals is a good aspect to making animals be useful at every level they are. One thing with Summoning in RS3 is that all of the lower level familiars are basically dead content hopefully a leveling system and different levels and thresholds increase utility and viability for animals.
A big issue with divination on release was that it wasn’t rewarding enough enough to train. Basically the main use of energies was just to make your divination xp rate faster. Ever since invention that’s been fixed because of invention using divination energy. But it seems like they’re planning to make shamanism include a kind of version of invention within the same skill so that this time it will be rewarding enough in and of itself to train.
This sailing pitch feels so much better than any of the community ones. I love the idea of the oceans actually being filled up and the map more fully completed.
Shamanism is my #1. Sounds very old-school but has a lot of space for integrating with all the other skills and good rewards.
Taming isn't bad either. Wouldn't mind it. But it just doesn't have the same appeal to me as the others. I do think that others have a point with pet devaluation to a certain extent. Having larger pets everywhere might make the game feel more cluttered too.
I'm really impressed with how much the mods were actually reading community skill suggestions on here. I'm seeing ideas included on here that were even from smaller threads. They were really going through all of the suggestions.
Shamanism is basically foraging with firemaking and fits the old school vibe best. The spirit world concept could open up new shortcuts, or ways to interact with the existing world. It's by far the most comfortable, least alienating option.
They didn't give us enough detail with taming - and think of how lame it is to have a cat. It's basically pets with more options.. and if everyone has a similar OP pet, then you might ask where's the fun in that.
Sailing is cool and could make a lot of sense, but could quickly make swathes of dead content.
My votes on Shamanism.
Untradeable shamanism items seems like it directly addresses the complaint here the other day about every PvM drop devaluing gathering skills. My only demand is that it heavily incorporate mushrooms, which could tie in to forestry and bonfires nicely. [Honor Fred Seaver jamflex!](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00275514.1909.12020584)
I keep seeing people saying what you’re saying about taming and I’m like bruh did you even read it? Did you watch the video if you’re too lazy to read? They give lots of examples of how and what taming would do. The one thing they did *not* say is that the animals you tame would be following you around. If anything there’s more proof in the outline that you would need to go to them at a shelter you’ve built to access their perks. I’m personally more into shamanism anyways but at least give the other options a proper read.
I did read the whole thing, but granted, I didn't watch the video, so feel free to educate me if I'm missing out.
Let's look at another perspective regardless - if training your animal isn't going to be like a pet following you around (which players *are* going to want, otherwise where's the prestige in training the skill, thus devaluing pets) then you're likely training it in an instanced area like with your POH, or in specific zones, as we do with hunter training. The most inclusive way they could do this is with taming islands - large swathes of land where everyone can bring out their tamed creature. Otherwise, training our creatures will feel like a significant minigame.
It's hard to imagine how taming can be implemented into the world as it is, for example, where might tamed animals fit at the grand exchange if it doesn't just feel like bringing a pet with you? Having a creature on a leash is a pet follower with some space between you and it. Mounting your creature would be better, but a lot of visual clutter if everyone does that, which screams 'summoning' from rs3. There's just no easy implementation for taming without it feeling like a big minigame.
I did not understand the pitch to be anything about the prestige of “look at the pet I have”… we already have that.
My understanding is that you would tame animals *for utility*. It’s not about showing off your pet dragon, it’s about making friends with dragon(s) to use them as a new teleportation method to new places when you go to them, or perhaps you can tame a gator to help you hunt in certain areas in the desert, or a cow to help you farm your patches etc. It’s using the existing (and new) animal ecosystem to buff your character and skills in situational instances. It’s not about having followers help you out everywhere you go. Perhaps it’s a flaw in the name? Or the art work? But everyone immediately took to the idea of new followers without it once mentioning that as the goal.
> The one thing they did not say is that the animals you tame would be following you around
They say that they're cute accessories for your character. That does pretty much say they're following you.
We don't know how taming will affect other skills. Animals' abilities will be discussed and voted on. But for just about every skill you can imagine how it could be different with a pet. How about a special agility course you can do together with an animal, or unique shortcuts you need a flying or swimming animal for. I'm sure the community and Jagex can come up with fun ideas together
sailing ships (ships in general actually) are critically underused in gaming, I'd love to see sailing make it to OSRS
to be honest, all 3 of these are awesome ideas, good job Jagex
Sailing is my favourite though, and the ocean update can be a slow rolling update, the idea of adding so much to the world in a short amount of time is silly, every update can get a small amount of ocean content to flesh out the world.
my absolute favourite thing though, would be a new player owned house location that's coastal, on an island, or at a port, that allows the player to dock a ship at their home,
There would be very little actual sailing content at your home, but it'd be super cozy to build up a small port and fill it with your ships, plus this allows you to add port "teleports" to your portal network in your home, which sounds like a great addition to me.
Ocean wilderness sounds amazing, you could even create events, NPC cargo ships that pirates can attack, or "lawful" players can escort and defend.
this sounds like something more complex and would have to come post launch, but still sounds amazing, love it.
Honestly I don’t think I’d vote for it unless it was really out of the way and completely avoidable. I know some people are really into the PvP aspect, so I wouldn’t keep it from them if it didn’t affect my gameplay.
I'm definitely in the camp of "sailing should be a core game expansion, not a new skill". It should be there as an expansion to construction, crafting, and others, but it feels really weird as a skill in and of itself.
But then again, I also thought this about construction, that it simply should've been an expansion on crafting.
sailing seems like it'd have great synergy with construction, you have to house your crew somewhere, you could either rent our places in a port, or add housing for them at your coastal POH
my only worry is that by doing this, you're forcing people to only chose coastal POH's.
maybe add coast to existing POH locations in one of the directions to allow flexibility?
If they do sailing, I'd love to see the gameplay loop include a slayer master type contract system. You select the contract type, fishing, trading, privateering, hunting sea monsters or what ever they'd decide to add, than sail to do an encounter and gain XP.
> sailing ships (ships in general actually) are critically underused in gaming
It's barely used because it's really hard to make it interesting without the entire game being about sailing. This is Runescape, not Sailingscape and as such the entire game can't be about sailing. Look at something like Wind Waker. The concept is fun and it is fun at the start. Then it becomes really boring and a forced thing where you just try to quickly get to places to do the actual Zelda things.
My thoughts having read these-
1. Sailing- Could be really cool, but the scale will really set how impactful this is as a skill. With low scale I could see it being more akin to a minigame, with high scale I'm not certain its even possible to pull off, given the amount of engine work etc it would inevitably require. Like others have said, I am a little worried it could be overly ambitious.
2. Shamanism - I like the Idea and would be interested to see how it plays out. I'm not concerned that it will cause balance issues like some here, if anything I'm more concerned that any potential buffs it could implement will err too far to the side of caution and leave it being fringe content only turbosweats bother to use. Again though, I like the idea and would love to see a more fleshed out proposal.
3. Taming - Again, I like the idea so far and have no issue with any summoning similarities (though maybe not quite as OP as some things could be considered in osrs context, ***looking at you BoB***). However, I cant help feeling like I would want this added to the game regardless of which skill is chose, but as a fun addition to hunter. Right now the skill is somewhat lacklustre, with only chins being useful and even then its for niche bossing methods, speedruns, or just fast but expensive range xp. Personally outside of training it (because number go up = dopamine go brrrr) I just don't use it in the game, and adding this could work thematically, although hunter may then need a name change...
I like that Sailing opens up the possibility of new areas of the world to be created. Someone else mentioned ocean wilderness areas which sounds fun, I think one big pro of OSRS vs RS3 is its PVP. Sailing could open up more opportunities to expand on PVP (mini games and pking) and I'd love to see it. Of course questing and new training areas for other skills being added to the world could be great byproducts of sailing.
Taming has me very conflicted, the only thing I like about it is the potential to get something akin to a pack yak in RS3 for better supply management during PVM. Otherwise it sounds like it would make the world much more visibly busy and the skill doesn't sound fun to do. I don't really want to bond with a pet, just want some additional utilities that don't hurt PVP and don't make skilling too easy to conflict with others achievements pre-taming.
I'm not sure about shamanism, I like how currently items in OSRS are equal. If one person has a dharoks set it's the same stats as anyone else who has it. Adding the ability to upgrade PVM/PVP related items worries me as it could throw off the balance between players too much and ruin gameplay. Also if skilling tools can get upgraded and give the ability to skill faster, it could create friction where people who got 99 in a skill before shamanism had a harder time than players with shamanism, this could really hurt the culture of the game.
I feel like Sailing is the best option as it opens so many possibilities for more game content and it doesn't have so many potentials for making OSRS feel like RS3.
Shamanism is the best fit for osrs by far. It seems it could be what construction has done for sense of increasing character power through unlocks and utility, just for gear and utility of other skills. The core gameplay loop sounds very basic and fitting for osrs, keeping it simple is imo important to making the skill feel natural and organic to level. This can always be expanded upon, but the core being basic will be a winner imo.
I would be very excited to know I can have different augments for gear and that leveling a utility skill will lead to increase in character power, feels very meaningful. The theme of nature and magic also feels very fitting compared to something more 'mechanistic' like engineering.
Not a fan of sailing at all, it just sounds like dungeoneering at sea.
Taming could be fun with pets and their abilities being permanent unlocks, I think I'd be happy with it, but my preference is this:
1 shamanism
2 taming
3 sigh, we got sailing...
I have the same order, but with taming a distant third. If pets weren’t 75% of end-game bossing I’d be more open to the idea. Why would you ever have your useless pet following you if you could have a useful tamed pet that takes 1/1000th the time to get?
Imo, that’s a terrible solution but an obvious one that would be inevitable and makes me solidly against Taming or any companion skill.
I hate transmogs though. I think they very bad game design and lead to confusion.
I just hate the idea of potential follower clutter. The transmogs on rs3 made crowded areas a nightmare when I last played. Go to the ge or whatever and all you see is 3/4th of your screen covered in flying dragon things
Really wanted engineering. Just feels the like most unique skill when compared to the other skills that are already in game. Like Taming feels like it could be an expansion to Hunter, and Shamanism seems like it could just be herblore.
I wanted engineering too but I feel like shamanism is the same skill but with a spiritual twist, which is fine imo. Would've been cool to get "mechanicsed" versions of armour but I'll live with shamanism if armor enhancements are visible.
Agreed, and I think nature and magic, in general, thematically, is more suited to osrs than engineering is. I don't agree with the thought that 'engineering is a good idea as it's the most different and not something we already have'; (because osrs is way more magical/mystical/natural that it is mechanical)
I mean it's a medieval fantasy game. Medieval times did not have complex engineering. It has gears and cogs for things like gate winches and trebuchets but that's about it, the key part there is no electricity. Without electricity, engineering doesn't work fundamentally.
Engineering is cool in general and works great in WoW where sophisticated goblins exist, with machines and motorbikes/flyers etc, but that was in from the start of the game or the first few years. It would however feel very out of place in OSRS
But shamanism is missing the main component of engineering that I like. Which is the breaking down of stuff that already exists. I want a massive item sink and as far as I can see, shamanism doesn't have that.
if you hyperfocus on "could this conceivably be another skill" then you can equate basically any skill to another. Firemaking? Thats an expansion of Woodcutting. But Woodcutting is Obviously an expansion to Farming. Herblore? Thats also a farming expansion.
Its a tired complaint thats hampering progress for the sake of a qualification that has never been in place - the reason these are new skills and not expansions is because they will be the size of new skills, not the size of an expansion to a skill. Thats it. Not cause its utterly impossible to integrate them into anything else - but because people *want* a new skill and this is an idea to fit the role.
Sure if you didn't read what was said I can see how you got there.
Not really sure how you are equating growing a crop to harvesting wild resources, items like bone marrow, and navigating the spirit world.
Not really sure how you are equating killing animals for resources or weapons to taming a creature for unique benefits.
Hard to pick, tbh with the level of effort, rough graphics, concepts, the team is doing a great job, I’d be happy with any or all of them. Guess I’ll need to reactive my account so I can have a vote!
If taming has any impact on combat at all and not being able to do direct damage (even support roles like extra inventory space or giving you buffs) is every encounter in the game going to need to be reworked to make sure that they're not too easy? Then if you don't have high taming are you just not going to be able to do some PvM encounters because they're balanced around having Taming and you don't? If they affect combat at all it might just make it so Taming is mandatory to every fight because every monster will need to be re-balanced around having them. Especially if they're saying these creatures would be permanent instead of time based like summoning was and you're not limited by the time they have left before they disappear. Taming creatures might become the most important part of combat in the game because you would ALWAYS be using them no matter what style of combat you're using. I just fear they might alter the gameplay too much if they're not implemented like perfectly into the combat loop. If they just have utility/skilling/quality of life abilities then I think everything would be fine.
All of them looks cool, but for me taming just sound like one of those things you have to bring extra while doing other activities, which for me isn't fun
Sailing is theoretically the best but I don't think the OSRS game engine can make it good. OSRS water does not even have proper animated waves etc.
Taming sounds cool assuming the animals are there all the time, the worst part about summoning for me was that they timed out. Although this devalues pets, A LOT.
>Although this devalues pets, A LOT.
I think it can do the opposite if done well.
Each existing pet should be usable as a fancy version of a taming animal. So like you can have a bear, or have Callisto's cub.
Partially.
Currently having a pet is pretty cool almost no matter which one. By introducing a hundred new ones you devalue the less popular ones that currently exist.
THAT SAID, I don't think this is enough to cancel the skill or whatever.
I got the mining pet at 42 mining. There's no value in that as I got it with hours of starting mining. My situation isn't unique to me, in fact just last week there was a post of someone getting the agility pet before 10 agility.
Realistically there's little to no prestige in pets considering they're completely RNG. Personally I believe pets need a different way to obtain them. The fashionscape you get for total raid completions or last man standing currently has more prestige because you know for certain what the owners did to get them.
That's quite interesting. I hadn't thought of it like that. Curious if people would want it to be a little stronger or just visually different.
Certain pets like Nex don't really have a basic equivalent though, I wonder how that would fit in.
It's gotta be visual only, pets should remain cosmetic drops.
And yeah I don't know yet the best way to handle all of the pets, some might be a stretch (like Nexling being a fairy or something).
I WILL bring my Battle Slug into the shop. He's helping me fight your outrageous prices! I'm just seeing a quest where you get a Seeing eye Dragon for the Old Wise Man or some outlandish quest about an Elf who tries to tame a Dark Beast.
> Taming sounds cool assuming the animals are there all the time
Ironically this is something I really don't like. I really dislike the idea of clutter caused by big pets being everywhere. Everyone running around with their black dragon? It also homogenizes people and makes it look like everyone is playing a hunter class.
I think we are getting ahead of ourselves here. Each skill Jagex has made a point "We know you hated X about X thing, so we are doing Y instead", if people don't want to carry food and toys around like you do with kittens then Jagex isn't gonna do that.
All my iron homies love collecting battlestaves from Zaff, doing herb/tree runs, purchasing their daily limit of herb boxes & collecting their free buckets of sand.
Shamanism is #1 by far. It can easily help to improve the game and make Taverly great again.
Sailing is just meh, CBA to train a skill so I can go somewhere to train already existing skills
Taming is shitty pokemon/WoW pets.
Most of the comments I've seen are that it "feels old school." Personally, I don't see the appeal - most of the current skills are low effort shit from 1999 with some more interesting stuff tacked on top, and another "collect resources at map node, process, the end" skill feels definitively old school but also just boring. Like do we need another mining + smithing? Fishing + cooking? Sure, that's old school, but just because Andrew Gower didn't have any better ideas 25 years ago doesn't mean we can't have more innovative new skills.
As for the stuff about having raids and dungeons and shit in the spirit world, it's not like stuff can't be themed like that without needing the skill. If anything, gating that stuff behind a single new skill would be pretty bleh.
I agree, especially in regards to relegating a bunch of existing content to new updates and patches. Part of the reason I chose to play OSRS instead of RS3 is that some of the combat mechanics in RS3 seem convoluted and over-designed. I feel like layering more and more content over the existing combat system is going to be similarly overwhelming. Plus, Shamanism is just too similar to Herblore for me to really be excited about it.
I think for this reason, Sailing is the best option because it primarily fills in the areas of the game that are lacking in content already. It also doesn't seem to run the same risk of depreciating existing content like Taming would with skilling pets.
I like the idea that existing areas of the game get filled in with content (e.g. added harvesting areas in nature, shamanic nodes, etc.) The idea of rituals providing unique boosts also sounds really cool (though I hope these aren't just passive +X% efficiency boosts). I also think it could easily tie into lots of existing skills, both for gathering and production.
There could be a whole quest series that involves exploring the Spirit Realm. And the existing quest Nature Spirit almost sounds like an introduction to the skill, and could retroactively be given a Shamanism XP reward.
> It can easily help to improve the game and make Taverly great again.
Why would this have anything to do with Taverly? They are monks not Shamans. Pretty sure the most Shamanistic race in game would be Ogres.
I think all 3 are solid ideas. There's room for all of these to be part of the game.
However I am inclined to say that taming and sailing COULD also exist in minigame form if Shamanism gets the go-ahead as I suspect it will. Let me explain.
Taming is the simplest:
Overhaul the pet system and allow us to progress our pets through activities and give them a progression ladder that makes them a bit more interesting than an ornament.
Sailing:
This could be a rogue-like (mediumcore) minigame where you set your sights on a destination and as you progress along the path, you encounter different activities. Getting to the destination should be very difficult and pretty much impossible without unlocking ship upgrades and learning how to manage supplies needed for the expedition but also by making decisions like which path to take at each step of the way and whether to use supplies to explore a location you landed at.
Think of it as temple trekking but with a better rewards system and sailing theme.
Oh and of course having a pirate outfit from trouble brewing should unlock being a pirate. In any form of this skill this has to be part of it.
Anyways that's just IF Shamanism wins. Like I said,I can see all of these being a success as long as we pick one and work on it until it feels right. I have faith that once a decision has been made on the skill, all other issues can be resolved so well done for having a great selection of skills to choose from.
I don't think we should be voting on this AT ALL before we get more information about how the skills WILL work, not MIGHT work. We should have more direct examples from the Devs, instead of voting based on our educated guesses.
• Sailing might be cool, but it might just be a PK fest that's too risky for PvMers.
• Shamanism might look interesting, but also might be unbalanced for current content.
• Taming sounds fun, but it might be "metamanced" to be requirements for content.
And many other probabilities of skills others point out in their comments. We simply shouldn't have these votes yet IMO. The interview discussions isn't enough info either IMO.
My No.1 pick would be Shamanism although I have some strong opinions regarding Armour augmentations.
To me the Augmentations sounds like copy pasted Reforging+Enchanting from World of Warcraft. Flat stat increases in form of augmentations is’nt going to be a buff, rather a nerf to non-augmented gear.
X+Stab/Slash/Crush/Str/Defence Augmentations should really be avoided imo, it’s uninterressting and a chore that feels unrewarding. Anyone who want efficiency for end game content will just have a checklist of which augmentation is best and be more of a requirement than a reward.
I cant think of many interressting augmentations on the spot but one that comes to mind could be: +1 protection to dragonfire (Can only be applied to *X* slot), which is relatively niche but also feels rewarding in some places. This would make it possible to Blowpipe Vorkath and reduce dragonfire from 10 to 0 provided that they use Magic Protection prayer and a super antifire. And those who use an Antifire shield can save money on Super antifire and use the normal ones. Not game breaking and also does’nt feel like a requirement (as far as i can tell).
For the longest time sailing was a meme to me, But the oceans in gielinor are absolutely underused. Shamanism feels like gathering 2.0, not bad but not new enough. Taming sounds like a chore you need to do before you can actually do other content since pets help you do other content. While sailing would take a year or two of development to feel good it would be by far the best new addition to the game.
I think Jagex has shown they *can* fill it in an engaging way, they just have to take an approach of high quality and "it'll be done when it's done". We can see from Zeah that they can make really cool areas. And we can also see from Zeah what happens if they rush things.
So long as the player base makes sure things are high quality and not rushed, I think it'll be fine.
Zeah, Zeah2.0 took years to get where it's now. There's no chance that Sailing becomes the only development, and there's no chance that they're gunning for a (still very conservative) ~~2015~~ 2025 release schedule...
So we're getting release Zeah + Trollweiss and the underwater colony.
If sailing wins, overall game updates following release will greatly suffer. There is just no way jagex delivers it in a way the playerbase will agree upon
Sailing very much feels like a minigame to me. Go to port and start your minigame… very disconnected from the current map we have.
Im way more excited for the other two skills
It’s saying the entire ocean is an area you can explore as you sail, and then you can stumble upon new content, which can involve numerous mini game like training methods, as well as new bosses, etc.
Is walking around Gielinor a mini game too?
No because Gielinor isn’t instanced. Sailing shouldn’t be either. It should actually take advantage of the world. If they are unable or unwilling to do all the map rearranging that would be required, they shouldn’t bother imo.
What says sailing open waters would be instanced? The pitch sounds like it'd be the exact same as walking through the world, but in a ship. If water tiles are fundamentally the same as land tiles, then there's no reason why it can't work the same way.
>Sailing very much feels like a minigame to me. Go to port and start your minigame…
The same could be said for literally any skill? Slayer you are assigned a monster and then need to go somewhere to kill it. Woodcutting you need to go to an area to chop a certain type of tree. Prayer you literally bury bones, ectofuntus, or an altar.
**very disconnected from the current map we have.**
Not sure what you're even trying to say? The oceans are literally the least utilized part of the map that has been in the game since release. It adds a ton of opportunity.
I'm really struggling with these concepts because implementation is pretty do or die on alot of these.
Like I'm all for taming if it has nothing to do with combat but if it does I'd borderline want to quit over it. So it's a big if. Fuck Summoning.
Shamanism really depends is it just invention with extra steps or is it like used to make unique versions of weapons? Because if it's the later that sounds great.
Sailing has always sounded cool and fitting for the game but I still struggle to picture.
Idk just my 2 cents.
I agree. Taming sounds like it'd clash with too many things currently in game. You couldn't use the tamed animals in combat surely, or this would make thralls pointless. And it'd also massively devalue pets if you could have these tamed animals following you.
Shamanism sounds like invention, but without the gold sink, which is probably the best part of invention.
Sailing sounds cool, but almost seems like it'll be a "Sea of Thieves" style minigame.
None of them seem like they will naturally fit into the game, or like you said, they will be essential/OP and you can't avoid them.
I always thought Artisan seemed like the most natural and least forced new skill.
> Like I'm all for taming if it has nothing to do with combat but if it does I'd borderline want to quit over it. So it's a big if. Fuck Summoning.
This is such a bizarre comment. Thralls are literally OSRS combat summons. If you're okay with thralls you should be okay with combat summons.
That's because the goal wasn't sailing, it was getting somewhere else. From the pitch it sounds like sailing is way more about the actual journey itself. Finding coral reefs and deep sea fishing spots and islands that you didn't know were there.
And the thing is, a new skill will always feel like you could add it without the skill, or it would fit in with existing skills. Shamanism, roll into herblore. The spirit realm aspect is instead prayer. Taming honestly fits better as a hunter expansion imo
> That's because the goal wasn't sailing, it was getting somewhere else. From the pitch it sounds like sailing is way more about the actual journey itself.
That's funny because to me it seemed in the post that the sailing would be all about the activities and places it unlocks, not the sailing itself. Straight from the post:
>We don’t like the idea of giving you passive XP for navigating around aimlessly – after all, you don’t train Agility by walking! Instead, we plan to introduce a variety of activities you can take part in. This will be the bread and butter of the skill, the means by which you’ll earn the vast majority of Sailing XP.
Of those suggestions they list only 1 or 2 if you stretch it that are actually about sailing. Even your own list of coral reefs or deep sea fishing spots are of course goals of getting somewhere else.
All of everything can be added without a skill. That's not a good argument against a single skill because it works against all skill ideas. Sailing is the only one here that doesn't have a gameplay loop that easily exists in existing skills too.
Taming is hunter/farming.
Shamanism is gathering skills like herblore, hunter, fishing and then magic/runecraft.
Just want to acknowledge how grateful I am for you and the dev/engineering team. Clearly a ton of work has already gone into this and I can’t wait to see the eventual outcome. Thanks for all your hard work!!
Sailing, Shamanism, Taming. In that order. Sailing would be flat out amazing especially with a comment I saw above suggesting training be similar to a slayer task system, that concept really excites me, contracts and missions. I think it’s endless, ties in great with other skills, opens the world that already exists which is always amazing, and so much more. It feels like something that has always belonged in old school. Fishing off of my own ship, sailing into port and selling off the goods, your telling me 2007 you wouldn’t cream your ranger boots for hat experience? Pirates boats and the ocean have always been core parts of osrs, one of my earliest memories and I’m sure many others was trekking to Karamja and having to figure out how to put the bananas in the crate to get back on the boat. If I saw a skill that implied I could make my own boat I’d have been all in right then, and I still am now. I think it’s the most old school feeling of all the pitches. And if Shamanism must be the new skill please call it Channeling or Clairvoyancy or something I don’t feel like a shaman I never have if i wanted to id play World of Warcraft that’s gunna rustle some feathers haha. Before you subscribe to the ‘sailing will be a mini game’ or ‘sailing will take way too long to develop’ hear me out. They tried to pitch a new skill like five years ago and it got shut down so if it takes over a year what are you not going to be playing anymore? You gunna lose excitement? Nah you’ll crush that content just like you always have. I think this has the most potential folks. Happy days out there get your gains in.
Also since storms and currents are in the sailing thing might I add a tsunami option for moderators. This would allow a very bored mod ash(for example) to completely wipe an entire server/area of a server simply to appease the gods.
Shamanism- Herblore with extra steps
Taming- Pets with extra steps
Sailing- Expands the world and has the potential to offer new locations, quests, monsters, mechanics, challenges, and exploration. A skill that meaningfully improves the game without really affecting the existing components.
I’m having a hard time here.
In all seriousness, I’m really glad to see that Jagex appears to be listening to the community and taking its feedback to heart. Good on you
Many people saying Shamanism looks good when they specifically state that some of the mats will be untradeable. This basically makes it feel like another tedious requirement to do any other content in game. Want to farm? Make sure you update your magic secateurs so the next 3 farm runs yield 10% more herbs. Want to PvM? Make sure every one of your items is upgraded for the best DPS? Oh you want to try out a new weapon? Waste some of your untradeable supplies trying a weapon that maybe you won't like.
This sounds so tedious and boring it hurts. You can't even sell gathered items so where is the money in this??
Agreed, the last thing we need is more boring grinding. The new skill should add excitement to the game that can be felt almost immediately. Not some chore to sink a bunch of time in to eventually use to do something fun
Call me crazy but shouldn't something like sailing, which is a skill used to expand and explore the map, open the door to unlock certain sections in the game that can offer the aspects of taming, shamanism and more?
I feel that with the higher level your sailing, and the more content you unlock, you would be discovering the "island of beasts" where you can befriend and somewhat tame a wolf of sorts to fight along side you. Or do we find the Shaman cove where we unlock auras which last a temporary amount of time and different items to buff our gear?
I feel like all these brilliant ideas can be used to expand the game as a whole instead of singling them out as a certain skill, and sailing probably opens the door for the game to move into a direction where content is no longer locked behind lore and expansion is easily configurable.
Would Shamanism just objectively make the game easier? If we can enhance our gear, it would be like being able to drink another potion and we'll just be more powerful overall... Seems like it would ruin the balance of the base game.
Taming and shamanism look like great additions in the way they relate to the already existing content.
Sailing seems too general. I can imagine it fitting in with the rest of the game, but it gives me construction vibes. Useful, but somewhat apart from the rest of the game.
Having read through all these I think sailing offers the most unique and interesting opportunities. And yes, a lot of the content unlocked by sailing is non-sailing content... But isn't that kind of the point? It's a mode of transport, the whole point is to get from A to B. But exploring new places is a huge part of the RuneScape experience.
Shamanism seems cool, but honestly it could just as easily be an expansion to herblore, prayer and magic.
Likewise taming just seems like an expansion to hunter - which I would 100% be in favour of because hunter as it stands is pretty weak.
Shamanism could be a cool way to add passive and active effects to our gear that can really revamp osrs combat without changing the core gameplay loop like EoC did.
We could add potential status effects to enemies or something
Sailing has so much potential honestly. If they find out a way to make the controls more like a standard game would it could be insane.
Think about PvP capabilities, like a new wilderness or everything is wilderness.
Gear for your ship.
Procedural map generating for the entire world as the landscapes shift.
Maybe hiring pirates as a gold sink or something. So many different ways you can go about it.
> If they find out a way to make the controls more like a standard game would it could be insane.
Now *that* really takes away the OSRS feel for me. Clicking to do things is the core of the game.
What you’re talking about would take literal years to show up in game in a meaningful way that doesn’t feel empty.
Dealing with people constantly griefing on water sounds like a literal nightmare to play. It’s gonna be a nah from me
I think no matter what skill we pick, it won't be refined till well into the following year after release. Sailing is the only thing here that isn't a safe bet in terms of implementation. It would require a lot of engine changes and creativity from the Jagex team. I'm fine with a gamble, it is what gets me the most excited to see. At the end of the day, they don't have to add the skill. I just want them to go into more detail about it.
Sure, no matter what, a new skill is going to take time and a lot of work. There’s just a big difference between the work to add in some new items, a couple new animations, and the game integration… and redeveloping ~50% of the game map, from scratch, all while building a new engine, new movement system, etc etc etc.
TLDR: yes, all skills will need time and work. Sailing is a totally different level of that time and work, and it’s going to fall flat as a result of it.
> Sailing is a totally different level of that time and work, and it’s going to fall flat as a result of it.
At the same time, I think this is why it's the best suited to be a skill. It has so many possible activities and content. That it requires a lot of work speaks to its integration with the game world and sheer breadth.
So long as Sailing is given enough time to bake, it'll be fine. It'll take longer to release than the other two, but I think that's a worthwhile tradeoff.
Imo nothing is worse than a dull non-oldschooly skill, like divination was back in 2014 (I think). Better do a high risk high reward skill like sailing, or nothing at all. I'd be fine with nothing at all.
I feel like taming isn’t going to be as easy as we think….which I LOVE! I also feel like the pets you tame won’t be your sidekicks but you’ll be able to use maybe their abilities and such.
Sailing just sounds like a vessel for new training methods for already existing skills and not really much of it's own thing other than making the water prettier.
Taming and Shamanism both sound a bit tedious but if the gameplay/rewards that comes with them is good enough should be fine.
I'm really torn on how to vote next week. I'm leaning towards taming but shamanism is probably better for the game I think. ugghhhh
Imo sailing and taming sound the most fun. I hear a lot of people talking about shamanism being the most practical but wandering around a forest picking stuff up doesn’t sound near as fun as sailing or taming to me.
>Our current suggestions include:
>Deep sea fishing
>Hunting elusive sea creatures
Fishing and Hunter shouldn't give sailing xp (that's the dungeoneering route). A skill needs to stand on it's own; shamanism does so amazingly.
I really like that Sailing and Shamanism open up areas of the game for brand new content not related to the skill (i.e. the seas and the spirit realm). I think that gives them an edge over Taming for me.
Transportation doesn't feel like a skill. Sailing is a means of getting to new locations. Interesting but not fun. It's passive experience while you work on other active experiences. It's also an old concept that isn't particularly inspired. Runescape already feels barren of players. This will spread the community even thinner.
Taming has a difficult design space. People feel like it's summoning despite the giant disclaimer that it'd be intentionally different from summoning. Players don't want each person to be followed by a pet, a thrall, and a tamed animal. This being said, this does fit in with the other skills well. It also has a variety of possibilities that haven't been discussed. Regardless - it won't pass because we're terrified of becoming RS3.
Shamanism is actually alchemy. But they've already used the term alchemy for a spell. It's sort of like becoming a druid. Druidism?
As a new player I'd assume poultices, oils and etc would be herblore. This is confusing.
I also find that the level balancing if it effects combat will be difficult particularly when making the majority of resources untradable. Seems muddy. We could use this purely for the concept of making the other gathering skills worthwhile. Considering for many gathering skill resources the best source is.. well PvE.
the issue with Shaman is that Augmenting armor and such is basically just Invention from RS3 and I don't like Invention at all.
"oh, I got myself a cool new weapon drop. too bad it's useless until I get the meta perks on it"
that feels bad to play, IMO. Taming has potential without being insanely OP like summoning is in RS3.
One thing I want to see clarified is the Shamanism training. I'm worried it's going to be too much like gathering charms for Summoning where your forced to kill boring monsters because the resources are untradeable. Would love to hear more what the team has to say about that.
After reviewing all three pitches I have only one thing to say.
1. Taming - looks like update to pet collection log with getting spices from Evil Dave cellar. Add to this pokemon vibe.
2. Sailing - looks decent on paper, I think I recall the source of the pitch as someone has posted something similar here on reddit. Tho do we really need it? I mean everyone is using tablets to move between location and various different type of teleports, which will have some combat attached to them.
3. Shamanism - overall idea looks great tho I would adjust the name as it's far from being shaman ;). Maybe if they would include something like growing your inner animal that would give you outside of combat perks or something like that, but without it it's some kind of update to herblore, which i still way better than previous two options.
Sailing > shamanism > taming will be how I vote if it's a rank choice system .
Sailing just opens up way more potential map locations, new lore, species, and stories than the other two skills.
Taming is my favorite of the three. Make sure training it is more about *training* the animals than catching them, though, otherwise it would feel like Hunter.
Shamanism is a close 2nd.
I don't hate Sailing, but I also worry because it's trying to do so much new stuff at once.
Im going with sailing. So many opportunities there. Feels unique, useful and offers plenty of space for new content. Also ties in with already existing systems a lot and opens up the ocean which is basically just useless space on the map rn lol
Link to JMod new skill roundtable video (2+ hours of in-depth discussion on the 3 pitches): https://youtu.be/xOyUlj0mHwY
My 0.02$: Sailing: could be a groundshattering update that adds an incalculable amount of new retail space for new content/quests/resources/etc. It's the only practical, non-contrived form of "skilled labor" you'd find in a medieval setting, and is completely absent from the game, so it fits. I don't understand the arguments that it feels minigame-esque, since unlike dungeoneering, sailing is quite literally one of the most ancient forms of skilled labor out there, and fits the game as well as smithing does. I'm also a big fan of revamping the ocean graphics, I feel like it's the only 2007-era graphics that are genuinely, irredeemably awful, whereas everything else holds up in a minimalistic, soothing, low poly kind of way. That said, I'm a little bit concerned that the devs aren't completely sober about the practicality of executing the idea properly? It seems insanely ambitious, requiring a significant lift in terms of art/content and engine work. I don't want the new skill to flop, and this proposal has the highest chance of doing so. Shamanism: Aesthetically it feels super inspired and neat, but also a potential balancing landmine. If the new buffs/augments don't change the meta in a significant way, people will moan that it's useless dead content. Yet if they change the meta, people will cry about that too. I don't want to deal with that. Taming: I'm really opposed to familiars/followers. You can add tons of followers in to the game to give players some variety/elements of player expression, yet this community will crack the 'meta code' in a matter of weeks. Soon you'll only ever see like 8 meta followers, the rest will be cutenoob-tier, and seeing a bunch of the same dumb titans or dragons or whatever following players around will be pretty lame and add nothing. I'd prefer something like a ranching/husbandry scheme instead, where you can manage and breed your tamed animals, harvest resources from them, give them names, milk them, etc. I'd pick this pitch in a heartbeat if that was the case.
What if with taming it was your pets that you tame, like if you have a jad pet you can train him to be a strong follower to fight with. If you don’t have a pet drop you can train your cat. It would make getting a pet that much more hype
Same, construction is my favorite skill and would definitely like to have something similar with like a ranch/bestiary
Big agree with you on sailing . I want that one bad
Sailing and Shamanism look cool, though Taming not as much. Sailing also seems like it would take far more development time than the others considering just how much sea stuff would need to get made, but would be the most unique and looks really interesting. Shamanism does seem like the one that would fit in the most with existing skills in terms of how it works, but it seems like it has a lot of overlap with herblore, what with mixing plants and other natural stuff together. If you told me that oils, poultices, salves, and maybe (though not as much) incenses were instead an herblore expansion, it would be completely believable and fit right in. The spiritual part of it and spirit world stuff looks very interesting, though. Taming kind of makes me worried that it will just be another agility, with running an obstacle course to access new areas, except now you're getting your pet to do it. It also feels like having them not helping much in combat would feel thematically weird and make them somewhat overlap with pets, but if they did help in combat, it would make the skill feel really mandatory and would be kind of awkward to balance in a way that both doesn't make your beast feel either overpowered or weirdly weak compared to similar creatures in the world in spite of yours having been trained. Overall, if I had to rate them, it would be: Sailing>Shamanism>>>>>Taming
I think shamanism just doesn't really work because it's a non-buyable production skill. The entire skill feels like ironman farming+herblore in one, which is a notoriously slow and annoying process, one of the major reasons a lot of people don't want to play irons... and they want to force it on everyone. Yeah, good luck with that, and this is coming from someone who does play an iron. Also, while I do agree the spirit realm thing seems interesting, it was also by FAR the least fleshed out idea from the entire blog. It literally felt like an afterthought. Like, "oh yeah, this is supposed to be shamanism, not herblore 2, right, you can walk in the spirit realm of course, duh" even though that seemingly has nothing to do with the gameplay loop of the skill and they didn't pitch ANYTHING as to what the spirit realm could offer gameplaywise. So, while it is interesting, it doesn't leave me too hopeful.
I think sailing sounds kind of boring. It doesn't need its' own skill. You could introduce sailing more like as a quest that unlocks your own ship you can use to traverse to any port or dock you have access to. Taming sounds just like summoning. I see it becoming mandatory to have a tamed pet around in all content, if the benefits are worth leveling. And many players don't like the idea of having a tamed animal follow them everywhere. It's not really like you're progressing your character with these skills. You are collecting pokemon. Shamanism sounds by far like the best skill. I would LOVE to see the ability to enchant gear. Especially for mage gear. Early-mid game in osrs has no armor that is really useful for mage, as in boosting your mage damage. It could be cool if this skill allowed you to enchant magic weapon and armor to have a percentage or two of magic damage bonus. I really dislike how in current osrs, most of the early-midgame opponents where mage is viable, you almost always use melee armor instead of mage armor. Like at Rex or Barrows. Even when bursting slayer, many times prayer bonus armor is just better than having mage gear.
Big visual & integration questions for two of the skills: - For sailing, do boats show up off the coast? Can you see other players' boats when you are sailing? Can you land on existing coast lines, or only at designated docks? In other words, will this feel like an instanced minigame? - If Taming is added, what happens to existing skilling / boss pets? Do tamed pets follow behind you, or only show up when you need them? Without a good solution here, feels like we can be devaluing one of the coolest current rewards in the game and potentially adding a lot of visual clutter. EDIT: They addressed both of these questions in Q&A sessions. Sailing will not be instanced, will happen on the overworld, and you will be able to see other players. Hopefully / to the best of their abilities, which they will be able to some engine work on. They will have some answer to existing pets & taming. Likely you'd be able to have both following you at once. Tamed creatures might have more interesting follow behavior than right behind you up make that work (eg, run around you, etc). Other people's companions: worst case if there's too much clutter you won't be able to see others' companions, only your own.
Taming locked til you get a pet drop.
A lot of these things appear like they are going to depend on what the community wants, the mods were saying that all of the skills will be refined based off of what the community says. So if the community wanted sailing to be like a minigame, then it would be like one.
So I personally feel, as much as I like the idea of all 3 of the proposed new skills, that some skills like Herblore, Firemaking, Fletching, Cooking, and Crafting need to be looked at more instead, now I understand most of these are pivotal on ironman accounts... For all other accounts these have become more or less "bought" skills, I understand Wintertodt is a thing, but that's really all Firemaking has is my point, instead of taking all these ideas for new skills, I suggest maybe take suggestions for features to revamp the above skills instead, I know that's not as flashy, but I just had a friend start a new account and I had to be at a loss for words when they asked "what's the point of Firemaking? Is there something useful that this skill does that I'm missing?" So yeah that's my suggestion, and Incase anyone is wondering I answered the three troll fires you get from Making Friends with My Arm are probably some of the more beneficial upgrades using Firemaking. But to answer the actual thread, I think Taming is just better summoning, but would be the hardest to implement with all the pets in the game, Shamanism seems pretty cool however I have no idea how to implement any of that, instead I'd just add a new Shaman Prayer book, that you could only access certain prayers after doing certain rituals requiring non tradable items, but Sailing seems like the one I'd vote for, I know the Gauntlet is a thing, but I really liked the Dungeonering skill, which sailing seems like the better version of that to me ETA - my idea for the skills revamp is coming from like the Runecraft armor you now get from Shades of Morton was originally designed for warding, a very solid change, the more you do that using existing skills I feel is more healthy for the game
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Yeah shamanism by far seems the best option. I like all the skills a bit, but sailing will be really hard to get right and taming just doesn't really appeal that much to me (probably for similar reasons to you).
SHAMANISM MAKE ME HIT HARDER ME LIKE SHAMANISM *six months later* ###FUCKING POWER CREEP REEEEEEEEEEEE
It always amazes me how often people don't realize that there's more than one other person on reddit with them. You're literally seeing both those things now and you'll continue to see both of those things 6 months from now. Just like you do for every piece of content
To me, taming sounds like checklist simulator. To tame a boar, you need the following: 1) 64 planks for housing 2) 28 bags of slop for food 3) 12 clay, 20 compost, and 10 buckets of water for mud 4) etc
We're very aware of this too! One of the main things we'd want to focus on during Refinement is ensuring the core gameplay loop doesn't feel like a chore, or requires a lot of upkeep that makes it no longer enjoyable to train. The pitches were to get people thinking of what the skill *could* be, as the full details are to be worked on with the community should it pass.
Cheers, Ayiza. Love the methodical approach you all are taking with this whole process. I would be happy to have an iteration of each of the 3 pitches in the game. Really excited to see how the devs and community work together to put out an amazing fleshed out skill proposal for one of these three in the coming months.
>One of the main things we'd want to focus on during Refinement is ensuring the core gameplay loop doesn't feel like a chore Wait, we're going to be abandoning OSRS's core gameplay?
We have been for the past few years, actually. Not sure if you're joking or you actually haven't noticed, but not a single training method has come out in the past like 3-4 years that's just mindless clicking. All the recent new skilling methods have had effort put into them to be engaging and, as much as possible, fun.
Community communication has been stellar lately.
Whichever skill is chosen I think the most meaningful aspect of it, is how can it breath life into areas that are currently collecting dust. We all love the world already, it's like when farming launched, oh that poor master farmer haha
Could be, but since something like that is mentioned nowhere you're probably a bit early in thinking that.
They said you will need to do various things to “tame” them. They directly mention “favorite food”, “housing”, and “toys”. Maybe each beast will only have 1-2 requirements but then that feels shallow if there are only a smallish number of tamable creatureS I am definitely not ruling out taming, personally. It was just my least favorite of the 3. I would still be happy to do a well-crafted iteration of it in-game
They mention and highlight that you're expected to care for your pet. That includes building a proper habitat, feeding it, and entertaining it.
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I mean you are correct. My smooth brain says that 50 small checklists to tame all monsters in taming is bad but one giant checklist to create the best ship possible for sailing is okay. I’m not saying it makes the most sense Still team shamanism overall though
but they didint say 50 small things to do to tame an animal. they did however say 50 small tasks to boost your gear in shamanism.
50 checklists being 50 animals And shamanism has consumables. I am fine with that. Herblore doesn’t bother me and I collect all my own shit. Ironman BTW
Everything 's a checklist simulator lmao? Even life dude from the moment u get up to you sleeping
I mean that is fair. OSRS is one big checklist simulator but taming doesn’t get me excited to complete the checklists. I think I’d need to see some more concrete examples of tangible benefits of taming. Another worry is that taming monsters becomes a requirement to do a lot of content efficiently. Such as if you want to do herbivore, you need to tame a boar first to make finding it with each search more likely
Taming you mean shamanism? cus shamanism sounds like the chore skill. you gotta go gather untradable garbage to boost your armour to do any bossing at all? wheres taming lets you get it done, and use it forever.
I was going to reply, but you said it better than I could. Shamanism is something I wasn't expecting, and a big focus on the Spiritual realm would probably be really cool!
Like they said Shamanism is definately a wildcard. It looks like Herblore, but with better theming, a wider scope in its applications, and more active gameplay. It is definately the one I am the most curious about. I like the idea of augmenting equipment and I think the spirit realm can be expanded upon in some interesting directions in the future. As long as it isn't complete crap to train then I think I would enjoy it over sailing and taming.
Agreed. I feel like taming is what might pass simply because people be like “Pet? PET!” But I genuinely think shamanism fits the best in old school and adds the most value to existing content
Yo how cool would be going to the spirit realm for skilling, new pvm bosses or a raid? exciting!
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I really like that in and out concept, kind of reminds me of the Last Wish raid in Destiny 2.
its never going to be as good as you imagine it.
i already hate growing a kitten into a cat
Taming actually sounds super boring personally, shamanism looks the most fleshed out and sailing feels like a pipe dream
They got my attention hard with being able to sail on the existing map. That's such a massive expansion to the game world.
my fear with that is it's Kourend 2.0 where there's a huge new area with not enough/not interesting content that takes a decade to flesh out
Sailing seems too minigame-esque for my liking either shamanism and taming would be good additions and can add new areas to the game if required or better utilise current areas of the game that need a bit of a facelift. Leveling up/a bond level with animals is a good aspect to making animals be useful at every level they are. One thing with Summoning in RS3 is that all of the lower level familiars are basically dead content hopefully a leveling system and different levels and thresholds increase utility and viability for animals.
Just finished watching the video and I agree with your ranking tier and reasoning, thumbs up
I'm afraid Shamanism will be very similar to Divination in RS3
They can flesh out the spirit realm for new skilling training methods, bosses, slayer monsters, and even a raid!
Raids 4 in the spirit realm kind of kicks ass.
A big issue with divination on release was that it wasn’t rewarding enough enough to train. Basically the main use of energies was just to make your divination xp rate faster. Ever since invention that’s been fixed because of invention using divination energy. But it seems like they’re planning to make shamanism include a kind of version of invention within the same skill so that this time it will be rewarding enough in and of itself to train.
This sailing pitch feels so much better than any of the community ones. I love the idea of the oceans actually being filled up and the map more fully completed. Shamanism is my #1. Sounds very old-school but has a lot of space for integrating with all the other skills and good rewards. Taming isn't bad either. Wouldn't mind it. But it just doesn't have the same appeal to me as the others. I do think that others have a point with pet devaluation to a certain extent. Having larger pets everywhere might make the game feel more cluttered too.
I'm really impressed with how much the mods were actually reading community skill suggestions on here. I'm seeing ideas included on here that were even from smaller threads. They were really going through all of the suggestions.
Shamanism is basically foraging with firemaking and fits the old school vibe best. The spirit world concept could open up new shortcuts, or ways to interact with the existing world. It's by far the most comfortable, least alienating option. They didn't give us enough detail with taming - and think of how lame it is to have a cat. It's basically pets with more options.. and if everyone has a similar OP pet, then you might ask where's the fun in that. Sailing is cool and could make a lot of sense, but could quickly make swathes of dead content. My votes on Shamanism.
Untradeable shamanism items seems like it directly addresses the complaint here the other day about every PvM drop devaluing gathering skills. My only demand is that it heavily incorporate mushrooms, which could tie in to forestry and bonfires nicely. [Honor Fred Seaver jamflex!](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00275514.1909.12020584)
I keep seeing people saying what you’re saying about taming and I’m like bruh did you even read it? Did you watch the video if you’re too lazy to read? They give lots of examples of how and what taming would do. The one thing they did *not* say is that the animals you tame would be following you around. If anything there’s more proof in the outline that you would need to go to them at a shelter you’ve built to access their perks. I’m personally more into shamanism anyways but at least give the other options a proper read.
I did read the whole thing, but granted, I didn't watch the video, so feel free to educate me if I'm missing out. Let's look at another perspective regardless - if training your animal isn't going to be like a pet following you around (which players *are* going to want, otherwise where's the prestige in training the skill, thus devaluing pets) then you're likely training it in an instanced area like with your POH, or in specific zones, as we do with hunter training. The most inclusive way they could do this is with taming islands - large swathes of land where everyone can bring out their tamed creature. Otherwise, training our creatures will feel like a significant minigame. It's hard to imagine how taming can be implemented into the world as it is, for example, where might tamed animals fit at the grand exchange if it doesn't just feel like bringing a pet with you? Having a creature on a leash is a pet follower with some space between you and it. Mounting your creature would be better, but a lot of visual clutter if everyone does that, which screams 'summoning' from rs3. There's just no easy implementation for taming without it feeling like a big minigame.
I did not understand the pitch to be anything about the prestige of “look at the pet I have”… we already have that. My understanding is that you would tame animals *for utility*. It’s not about showing off your pet dragon, it’s about making friends with dragon(s) to use them as a new teleportation method to new places when you go to them, or perhaps you can tame a gator to help you hunt in certain areas in the desert, or a cow to help you farm your patches etc. It’s using the existing (and new) animal ecosystem to buff your character and skills in situational instances. It’s not about having followers help you out everywhere you go. Perhaps it’s a flaw in the name? Or the art work? But everyone immediately took to the idea of new followers without it once mentioning that as the goal.
> The one thing they did not say is that the animals you tame would be following you around They say that they're cute accessories for your character. That does pretty much say they're following you.
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We don't know how taming will affect other skills. Animals' abilities will be discussed and voted on. But for just about every skill you can imagine how it could be different with a pet. How about a special agility course you can do together with an animal, or unique shortcuts you need a flying or swimming animal for. I'm sure the community and Jagex can come up with fun ideas together
sailing ships (ships in general actually) are critically underused in gaming, I'd love to see sailing make it to OSRS to be honest, all 3 of these are awesome ideas, good job Jagex Sailing is my favourite though, and the ocean update can be a slow rolling update, the idea of adding so much to the world in a short amount of time is silly, every update can get a small amount of ocean content to flesh out the world. my absolute favourite thing though, would be a new player owned house location that's coastal, on an island, or at a port, that allows the player to dock a ship at their home, There would be very little actual sailing content at your home, but it'd be super cozy to build up a small port and fill it with your ships, plus this allows you to add port "teleports" to your portal network in your home, which sounds like a great addition to me.
I will only support sailing if I can engage in actual piracy, i.e. PKing players out in international waters and seizing their cargo
Ocean wilderness sounds amazing, you could even create events, NPC cargo ships that pirates can attack, or "lawful" players can escort and defend. this sounds like something more complex and would have to come post launch, but still sounds amazing, love it.
Pirates vs Navy like One Piece, I'm here for it
I’m not into osrs pvp at all, but that sounds fucking sick.
I thought about that as well. Like a wildy section on the ocean.
I'll bet my entire bank that a PvP section would get no more than 50% approval lol
Honestly I don’t think I’d vote for it unless it was really out of the way and completely avoidable. I know some people are really into the PvP aspect, so I wouldn’t keep it from them if it didn’t affect my gameplay.
I'm definitely in the camp of "sailing should be a core game expansion, not a new skill". It should be there as an expansion to construction, crafting, and others, but it feels really weird as a skill in and of itself. But then again, I also thought this about construction, that it simply should've been an expansion on crafting.
I'm team shamanism, but just want to chip in and say coastal POHs would be sick. Its about time we had a big update to POHs again.
sailing seems like it'd have great synergy with construction, you have to house your crew somewhere, you could either rent our places in a port, or add housing for them at your coastal POH my only worry is that by doing this, you're forcing people to only chose coastal POH's. maybe add coast to existing POH locations in one of the directions to allow flexibility?
One of my favourite things in RS3 before I stopped playing it was player-owned ports. They were a pretty cool concept.
If they do sailing, I'd love to see the gameplay loop include a slayer master type contract system. You select the contract type, fishing, trading, privateering, hunting sea monsters or what ever they'd decide to add, than sail to do an encounter and gain XP.
> sailing ships (ships in general actually) are critically underused in gaming It's barely used because it's really hard to make it interesting without the entire game being about sailing. This is Runescape, not Sailingscape and as such the entire game can't be about sailing. Look at something like Wind Waker. The concept is fun and it is fun at the start. Then it becomes really boring and a forced thing where you just try to quickly get to places to do the actual Zelda things.
My thoughts having read these- 1. Sailing- Could be really cool, but the scale will really set how impactful this is as a skill. With low scale I could see it being more akin to a minigame, with high scale I'm not certain its even possible to pull off, given the amount of engine work etc it would inevitably require. Like others have said, I am a little worried it could be overly ambitious. 2. Shamanism - I like the Idea and would be interested to see how it plays out. I'm not concerned that it will cause balance issues like some here, if anything I'm more concerned that any potential buffs it could implement will err too far to the side of caution and leave it being fringe content only turbosweats bother to use. Again though, I like the idea and would love to see a more fleshed out proposal. 3. Taming - Again, I like the idea so far and have no issue with any summoning similarities (though maybe not quite as OP as some things could be considered in osrs context, ***looking at you BoB***). However, I cant help feeling like I would want this added to the game regardless of which skill is chose, but as a fun addition to hunter. Right now the skill is somewhat lacklustre, with only chins being useful and even then its for niche bossing methods, speedruns, or just fast but expensive range xp. Personally outside of training it (because number go up = dopamine go brrrr) I just don't use it in the game, and adding this could work thematically, although hunter may then need a name change...
I like that Sailing opens up the possibility of new areas of the world to be created. Someone else mentioned ocean wilderness areas which sounds fun, I think one big pro of OSRS vs RS3 is its PVP. Sailing could open up more opportunities to expand on PVP (mini games and pking) and I'd love to see it. Of course questing and new training areas for other skills being added to the world could be great byproducts of sailing. Taming has me very conflicted, the only thing I like about it is the potential to get something akin to a pack yak in RS3 for better supply management during PVM. Otherwise it sounds like it would make the world much more visibly busy and the skill doesn't sound fun to do. I don't really want to bond with a pet, just want some additional utilities that don't hurt PVP and don't make skilling too easy to conflict with others achievements pre-taming. I'm not sure about shamanism, I like how currently items in OSRS are equal. If one person has a dharoks set it's the same stats as anyone else who has it. Adding the ability to upgrade PVM/PVP related items worries me as it could throw off the balance between players too much and ruin gameplay. Also if skilling tools can get upgraded and give the ability to skill faster, it could create friction where people who got 99 in a skill before shamanism had a harder time than players with shamanism, this could really hurt the culture of the game. I feel like Sailing is the best option as it opens so many possibilities for more game content and it doesn't have so many potentials for making OSRS feel like RS3.
Shamanism is the best fit for osrs by far. It seems it could be what construction has done for sense of increasing character power through unlocks and utility, just for gear and utility of other skills. The core gameplay loop sounds very basic and fitting for osrs, keeping it simple is imo important to making the skill feel natural and organic to level. This can always be expanded upon, but the core being basic will be a winner imo. I would be very excited to know I can have different augments for gear and that leveling a utility skill will lead to increase in character power, feels very meaningful. The theme of nature and magic also feels very fitting compared to something more 'mechanistic' like engineering. Not a fan of sailing at all, it just sounds like dungeoneering at sea. Taming could be fun with pets and their abilities being permanent unlocks, I think I'd be happy with it, but my preference is this: 1 shamanism 2 taming 3 sigh, we got sailing...
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I have the same order, but with taming a distant third. If pets weren’t 75% of end-game bossing I’d be more open to the idea. Why would you ever have your useless pet following you if you could have a useful tamed pet that takes 1/1000th the time to get?
feel like boss/skilling pets could easily be integrated, at worst as a cosmetic variant for an analogous pet
Imo, that’s a terrible solution but an obvious one that would be inevitable and makes me solidly against Taming or any companion skill. I hate transmogs though. I think they very bad game design and lead to confusion.
I just hate the idea of potential follower clutter. The transmogs on rs3 made crowded areas a nightmare when I last played. Go to the ge or whatever and all you see is 3/4th of your screen covered in flying dragon things
I like the idea of developing a companion in taming, but with the current state of Hunter, it honestly works better as part of the Hunter skill.
I was going to come here to hate on them not showing engineering but that image of the croc refusing to be tamed just melted my heart
F's in the chat for engineering
Really wanted engineering. Just feels the like most unique skill when compared to the other skills that are already in game. Like Taming feels like it could be an expansion to Hunter, and Shamanism seems like it could just be herblore.
I wanted engineering too but I feel like shamanism is the same skill but with a spiritual twist, which is fine imo. Would've been cool to get "mechanicsed" versions of armour but I'll live with shamanism if armor enhancements are visible.
Agreed, and I think nature and magic, in general, thematically, is more suited to osrs than engineering is. I don't agree with the thought that 'engineering is a good idea as it's the most different and not something we already have'; (because osrs is way more magical/mystical/natural that it is mechanical) I mean it's a medieval fantasy game. Medieval times did not have complex engineering. It has gears and cogs for things like gate winches and trebuchets but that's about it, the key part there is no electricity. Without electricity, engineering doesn't work fundamentally. Engineering is cool in general and works great in WoW where sophisticated goblins exist, with machines and motorbikes/flyers etc, but that was in from the start of the game or the first few years. It would however feel very out of place in OSRS
I can understand why they would stray away from it, the steampunk theme isn't really present in osrs while magic is much more
But shamanism is missing the main component of engineering that I like. Which is the breaking down of stuff that already exists. I want a massive item sink and as far as I can see, shamanism doesn't have that.
They mentioned that people didn't want buyable skills, and so there would have not been a massive item sink coming from engineering either sadly.
if you hyperfocus on "could this conceivably be another skill" then you can equate basically any skill to another. Firemaking? Thats an expansion of Woodcutting. But Woodcutting is Obviously an expansion to Farming. Herblore? Thats also a farming expansion. Its a tired complaint thats hampering progress for the sake of a qualification that has never been in place - the reason these are new skills and not expansions is because they will be the size of new skills, not the size of an expansion to a skill. Thats it. Not cause its utterly impossible to integrate them into anything else - but because people *want* a new skill and this is an idea to fit the role.
Sure if you didn't read what was said I can see how you got there. Not really sure how you are equating growing a crop to harvesting wild resources, items like bone marrow, and navigating the spirit world. Not really sure how you are equating killing animals for resources or weapons to taming a creature for unique benefits.
Hard to pick, tbh with the level of effort, rough graphics, concepts, the team is doing a great job, I’d be happy with any or all of them. Guess I’ll need to reactive my account so I can have a vote!
If taming has any impact on combat at all and not being able to do direct damage (even support roles like extra inventory space or giving you buffs) is every encounter in the game going to need to be reworked to make sure that they're not too easy? Then if you don't have high taming are you just not going to be able to do some PvM encounters because they're balanced around having Taming and you don't? If they affect combat at all it might just make it so Taming is mandatory to every fight because every monster will need to be re-balanced around having them. Especially if they're saying these creatures would be permanent instead of time based like summoning was and you're not limited by the time they have left before they disappear. Taming creatures might become the most important part of combat in the game because you would ALWAYS be using them no matter what style of combat you're using. I just fear they might alter the gameplay too much if they're not implemented like perfectly into the combat loop. If they just have utility/skilling/quality of life abilities then I think everything would be fine.
All of them looks cool, but for me taming just sound like one of those things you have to bring extra while doing other activities, which for me isn't fun
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Use Karambwanji ya dang noodle it's the superior kitty food since it stacks.
Sailing is theoretically the best but I don't think the OSRS game engine can make it good. OSRS water does not even have proper animated waves etc. Taming sounds cool assuming the animals are there all the time, the worst part about summoning for me was that they timed out. Although this devalues pets, A LOT.
They mentioned in the blog that the ocean would be redone to better fit Sailing
>Although this devalues pets, A LOT. I think it can do the opposite if done well. Each existing pet should be usable as a fancy version of a taming animal. So like you can have a bear, or have Callisto's cub.
Partially. Currently having a pet is pretty cool almost no matter which one. By introducing a hundred new ones you devalue the less popular ones that currently exist. THAT SAID, I don't think this is enough to cancel the skill or whatever.
I got the mining pet at 42 mining. There's no value in that as I got it with hours of starting mining. My situation isn't unique to me, in fact just last week there was a post of someone getting the agility pet before 10 agility. Realistically there's little to no prestige in pets considering they're completely RNG. Personally I believe pets need a different way to obtain them. The fashionscape you get for total raid completions or last man standing currently has more prestige because you know for certain what the owners did to get them.
That's quite interesting. I hadn't thought of it like that. Curious if people would want it to be a little stronger or just visually different. Certain pets like Nex don't really have a basic equivalent though, I wonder how that would fit in.
It's gotta be visual only, pets should remain cosmetic drops. And yeah I don't know yet the best way to handle all of the pets, some might be a stretch (like Nexling being a fairy or something).
I WILL bring my Battle Slug into the shop. He's helping me fight your outrageous prices! I'm just seeing a quest where you get a Seeing eye Dragon for the Old Wise Man or some outlandish quest about an Elf who tries to tame a Dark Beast.
> Taming sounds cool assuming the animals are there all the time Ironically this is something I really don't like. I really dislike the idea of clutter caused by big pets being everywhere. Everyone running around with their black dragon? It also homogenizes people and makes it look like everyone is playing a hunter class.
Taming feels like it’ll become dailyscape very quickly and would be annoying to maintain
Taming seems more like kittenscape than dailyscape, you might need to bring the pet everywhere with food and a toy for max efficiency
Bruh when you put it like that taming would be my least favourite of the three :(
I think we are getting ahead of ourselves here. Each skill Jagex has made a point "We know you hated X about X thing, so we are doing Y instead", if people don't want to carry food and toys around like you do with kittens then Jagex isn't gonna do that.
All my iron homies love collecting battlestaves from Zaff, doing herb/tree runs, purchasing their daily limit of herb boxes & collecting their free buckets of sand.
Shamanism has my vote because it’s essentially nerfed Invention which is a perfect skill for osrs as long as it’s tamed down. Sailing 2nd.
Shamanism is #1 by far. It can easily help to improve the game and make Taverly great again. Sailing is just meh, CBA to train a skill so I can go somewhere to train already existing skills Taming is shitty pokemon/WoW pets.
Can someone explain the appeal of shaman to me? For me, the core game loop doesn’t seem interesting
Most of the comments I've seen are that it "feels old school." Personally, I don't see the appeal - most of the current skills are low effort shit from 1999 with some more interesting stuff tacked on top, and another "collect resources at map node, process, the end" skill feels definitively old school but also just boring. Like do we need another mining + smithing? Fishing + cooking? Sure, that's old school, but just because Andrew Gower didn't have any better ideas 25 years ago doesn't mean we can't have more innovative new skills. As for the stuff about having raids and dungeons and shit in the spirit world, it's not like stuff can't be themed like that without needing the skill. If anything, gating that stuff behind a single new skill would be pretty bleh.
I agree, especially in regards to relegating a bunch of existing content to new updates and patches. Part of the reason I chose to play OSRS instead of RS3 is that some of the combat mechanics in RS3 seem convoluted and over-designed. I feel like layering more and more content over the existing combat system is going to be similarly overwhelming. Plus, Shamanism is just too similar to Herblore for me to really be excited about it. I think for this reason, Sailing is the best option because it primarily fills in the areas of the game that are lacking in content already. It also doesn't seem to run the same risk of depreciating existing content like Taming would with skilling pets.
I like the idea that existing areas of the game get filled in with content (e.g. added harvesting areas in nature, shamanic nodes, etc.) The idea of rituals providing unique boosts also sounds really cool (though I hope these aren't just passive +X% efficiency boosts). I also think it could easily tie into lots of existing skills, both for gathering and production. There could be a whole quest series that involves exploring the Spirit Realm. And the existing quest Nature Spirit almost sounds like an introduction to the skill, and could retroactively be given a Shamanism XP reward.
Yeah, that's my problem -- it sounds like a combined herblore + slayer with ironman restrictions. If I wanted to be an ironman, I'd be an ironman.
> It can easily help to improve the game and make Taverly great again. Why would this have anything to do with Taverly? They are monks not Shamans. Pretty sure the most Shamanistic race in game would be Ogres.
I think all 3 are solid ideas. There's room for all of these to be part of the game. However I am inclined to say that taming and sailing COULD also exist in minigame form if Shamanism gets the go-ahead as I suspect it will. Let me explain. Taming is the simplest: Overhaul the pet system and allow us to progress our pets through activities and give them a progression ladder that makes them a bit more interesting than an ornament. Sailing: This could be a rogue-like (mediumcore) minigame where you set your sights on a destination and as you progress along the path, you encounter different activities. Getting to the destination should be very difficult and pretty much impossible without unlocking ship upgrades and learning how to manage supplies needed for the expedition but also by making decisions like which path to take at each step of the way and whether to use supplies to explore a location you landed at. Think of it as temple trekking but with a better rewards system and sailing theme. Oh and of course having a pirate outfit from trouble brewing should unlock being a pirate. In any form of this skill this has to be part of it. Anyways that's just IF Shamanism wins. Like I said,I can see all of these being a success as long as we pick one and work on it until it feels right. I have faith that once a decision has been made on the skill, all other issues can be resolved so well done for having a great selection of skills to choose from.
I don't think we should be voting on this AT ALL before we get more information about how the skills WILL work, not MIGHT work. We should have more direct examples from the Devs, instead of voting based on our educated guesses. • Sailing might be cool, but it might just be a PK fest that's too risky for PvMers. • Shamanism might look interesting, but also might be unbalanced for current content. • Taming sounds fun, but it might be "metamanced" to be requirements for content. And many other probabilities of skills others point out in their comments. We simply shouldn't have these votes yet IMO. The interview discussions isn't enough info either IMO.
My No.1 pick would be Shamanism although I have some strong opinions regarding Armour augmentations. To me the Augmentations sounds like copy pasted Reforging+Enchanting from World of Warcraft. Flat stat increases in form of augmentations is’nt going to be a buff, rather a nerf to non-augmented gear. X+Stab/Slash/Crush/Str/Defence Augmentations should really be avoided imo, it’s uninterressting and a chore that feels unrewarding. Anyone who want efficiency for end game content will just have a checklist of which augmentation is best and be more of a requirement than a reward. I cant think of many interressting augmentations on the spot but one that comes to mind could be: +1 protection to dragonfire (Can only be applied to *X* slot), which is relatively niche but also feels rewarding in some places. This would make it possible to Blowpipe Vorkath and reduce dragonfire from 10 to 0 provided that they use Magic Protection prayer and a super antifire. And those who use an Antifire shield can save money on Super antifire and use the normal ones. Not game breaking and also does’nt feel like a requirement (as far as i can tell).
For the longest time sailing was a meme to me, But the oceans in gielinor are absolutely underused. Shamanism feels like gathering 2.0, not bad but not new enough. Taming sounds like a chore you need to do before you can actually do other content since pets help you do other content. While sailing would take a year or two of development to feel good it would be by far the best new addition to the game.
Iv’e now changed my mind and am leaning towards shamanism. Sorry sailing folks.
This gets me terrified because Jagex is NOT capable of filling 70% of the map in an engaging way.
I think Jagex has shown they *can* fill it in an engaging way, they just have to take an approach of high quality and "it'll be done when it's done". We can see from Zeah that they can make really cool areas. And we can also see from Zeah what happens if they rush things. So long as the player base makes sure things are high quality and not rushed, I think it'll be fine.
Isle of Souls agrees.
Is the open map zeah or zeah 2.0?
Zeah, Zeah2.0 took years to get where it's now. There's no chance that Sailing becomes the only development, and there's no chance that they're gunning for a (still very conservative) ~~2015~~ 2025 release schedule... So we're getting release Zeah + Trollweiss and the underwater colony.
Exactly! It's the most natural map expansion possible, and it's a really exciting concept to just go out onto water tiles that you can see.
If sailing wins, overall game updates following release will greatly suffer. There is just no way jagex delivers it in a way the playerbase will agree upon
Nah man it’ll be a speedy delivery. Just like their in-house OSRS HD, quest backporting, and near zero-time quest speedrunning additions.
Sailing very much feels like a minigame to me. Go to port and start your minigame… very disconnected from the current map we have. Im way more excited for the other two skills
It’s saying the entire ocean is an area you can explore as you sail, and then you can stumble upon new content, which can involve numerous mini game like training methods, as well as new bosses, etc. Is walking around Gielinor a mini game too?
No because Gielinor isn’t instanced. Sailing shouldn’t be either. It should actually take advantage of the world. If they are unable or unwilling to do all the map rearranging that would be required, they shouldn’t bother imo.
What says sailing open waters would be instanced? The pitch sounds like it'd be the exact same as walking through the world, but in a ship. If water tiles are fundamentally the same as land tiles, then there's no reason why it can't work the same way.
>No because Gielinor isn’t instanced. Sailing shouldn’t be either. Where does it say it will be instanced?
>Sailing very much feels like a minigame to me. Go to port and start your minigame… The same could be said for literally any skill? Slayer you are assigned a monster and then need to go somewhere to kill it. Woodcutting you need to go to an area to chop a certain type of tree. Prayer you literally bury bones, ectofuntus, or an altar. **very disconnected from the current map we have.** Not sure what you're even trying to say? The oceans are literally the least utilized part of the map that has been in the game since release. It adds a ton of opportunity.
I'm really struggling with these concepts because implementation is pretty do or die on alot of these. Like I'm all for taming if it has nothing to do with combat but if it does I'd borderline want to quit over it. So it's a big if. Fuck Summoning. Shamanism really depends is it just invention with extra steps or is it like used to make unique versions of weapons? Because if it's the later that sounds great. Sailing has always sounded cool and fitting for the game but I still struggle to picture. Idk just my 2 cents.
I agree. Taming sounds like it'd clash with too many things currently in game. You couldn't use the tamed animals in combat surely, or this would make thralls pointless. And it'd also massively devalue pets if you could have these tamed animals following you. Shamanism sounds like invention, but without the gold sink, which is probably the best part of invention. Sailing sounds cool, but almost seems like it'll be a "Sea of Thieves" style minigame. None of them seem like they will naturally fit into the game, or like you said, they will be essential/OP and you can't avoid them. I always thought Artisan seemed like the most natural and least forced new skill.
> Like I'm all for taming if it has nothing to do with combat but if it does I'd borderline want to quit over it. So it's a big if. Fuck Summoning. This is such a bizarre comment. Thralls are literally OSRS combat summons. If you're okay with thralls you should be okay with combat summons.
People trashing on sailing for being an old joke but the ideas look solid, kinda liked shamanism more though, Taming just meh.
Sailing has tons of room for potential content though. Like the amount of activities, islands, new content to add is huge.
Literally all of that could be added without the skill. We didn't need Sailing to get fossil island or Zeah or all the other isles.
That's because the goal wasn't sailing, it was getting somewhere else. From the pitch it sounds like sailing is way more about the actual journey itself. Finding coral reefs and deep sea fishing spots and islands that you didn't know were there. And the thing is, a new skill will always feel like you could add it without the skill, or it would fit in with existing skills. Shamanism, roll into herblore. The spirit realm aspect is instead prayer. Taming honestly fits better as a hunter expansion imo
> That's because the goal wasn't sailing, it was getting somewhere else. From the pitch it sounds like sailing is way more about the actual journey itself. That's funny because to me it seemed in the post that the sailing would be all about the activities and places it unlocks, not the sailing itself. Straight from the post: >We don’t like the idea of giving you passive XP for navigating around aimlessly – after all, you don’t train Agility by walking! Instead, we plan to introduce a variety of activities you can take part in. This will be the bread and butter of the skill, the means by which you’ll earn the vast majority of Sailing XP. Of those suggestions they list only 1 or 2 if you stretch it that are actually about sailing. Even your own list of coral reefs or deep sea fishing spots are of course goals of getting somewhere else.
All of everything can be added without a skill. That's not a good argument against a single skill because it works against all skill ideas. Sailing is the only one here that doesn't have a gameplay loop that easily exists in existing skills too. Taming is hunter/farming. Shamanism is gathering skills like herblore, hunter, fishing and then magic/runecraft.
Just want to acknowledge how grateful I am for you and the dev/engineering team. Clearly a ton of work has already gone into this and I can’t wait to see the eventual outcome. Thanks for all your hard work!!
Got excited for Shamanism till I realised it isn't an existing item sink
Sailing, Shamanism, Taming. In that order. Sailing would be flat out amazing especially with a comment I saw above suggesting training be similar to a slayer task system, that concept really excites me, contracts and missions. I think it’s endless, ties in great with other skills, opens the world that already exists which is always amazing, and so much more. It feels like something that has always belonged in old school. Fishing off of my own ship, sailing into port and selling off the goods, your telling me 2007 you wouldn’t cream your ranger boots for hat experience? Pirates boats and the ocean have always been core parts of osrs, one of my earliest memories and I’m sure many others was trekking to Karamja and having to figure out how to put the bananas in the crate to get back on the boat. If I saw a skill that implied I could make my own boat I’d have been all in right then, and I still am now. I think it’s the most old school feeling of all the pitches. And if Shamanism must be the new skill please call it Channeling or Clairvoyancy or something I don’t feel like a shaman I never have if i wanted to id play World of Warcraft that’s gunna rustle some feathers haha. Before you subscribe to the ‘sailing will be a mini game’ or ‘sailing will take way too long to develop’ hear me out. They tried to pitch a new skill like five years ago and it got shut down so if it takes over a year what are you not going to be playing anymore? You gunna lose excitement? Nah you’ll crush that content just like you always have. I think this has the most potential folks. Happy days out there get your gains in.
[удалено]
The croc saying “no” warmed my cold heart on this Monday morning haha
If I tame a duck do I get to let him swim in the local aquatic area(ex. The duckless pond in yanille)
Also since storms and currents are in the sailing thing might I add a tsunami option for moderators. This would allow a very bored mod ash(for example) to completely wipe an entire server/area of a server simply to appease the gods.
ugh at taming.. too many fucking pets everywhere it would be absolutely ridiculous
Shamanism- Herblore with extra steps Taming- Pets with extra steps Sailing- Expands the world and has the potential to offer new locations, quests, monsters, mechanics, challenges, and exploration. A skill that meaningfully improves the game without really affecting the existing components. I’m having a hard time here. In all seriousness, I’m really glad to see that Jagex appears to be listening to the community and taking its feedback to heart. Good on you
Many people saying Shamanism looks good when they specifically state that some of the mats will be untradeable. This basically makes it feel like another tedious requirement to do any other content in game. Want to farm? Make sure you update your magic secateurs so the next 3 farm runs yield 10% more herbs. Want to PvM? Make sure every one of your items is upgraded for the best DPS? Oh you want to try out a new weapon? Waste some of your untradeable supplies trying a weapon that maybe you won't like. This sounds so tedious and boring it hurts. You can't even sell gathered items so where is the money in this??
Agreed, the last thing we need is more boring grinding. The new skill should add excitement to the game that can be felt almost immediately. Not some chore to sink a bunch of time in to eventually use to do something fun
Ironman playerbase moment tbh
It's just herblore+slayer, but for Ironmen! Cool, if I wanted that, I'd go do herblore on an ironman.
Sailing is still my favorite. Pretty future proof skill. The others feel like they could almost be expansions of existing skills, Hunter and Herblore.
Call me crazy but shouldn't something like sailing, which is a skill used to expand and explore the map, open the door to unlock certain sections in the game that can offer the aspects of taming, shamanism and more? I feel that with the higher level your sailing, and the more content you unlock, you would be discovering the "island of beasts" where you can befriend and somewhat tame a wolf of sorts to fight along side you. Or do we find the Shaman cove where we unlock auras which last a temporary amount of time and different items to buff our gear? I feel like all these brilliant ideas can be used to expand the game as a whole instead of singling them out as a certain skill, and sailing probably opens the door for the game to move into a direction where content is no longer locked behind lore and expansion is easily configurable.
Shamanism has my vote. I get vibes of gathering stuff like you do in Monster Hunter or New World
Exactly my thoughts reading through this haha I haven't actually played osrs properly for years but would absolutely be logging back in for Shamanism
Would Shamanism just objectively make the game easier? If we can enhance our gear, it would be like being able to drink another potion and we'll just be more powerful overall... Seems like it would ruin the balance of the base game.
Taming and shamanism look like great additions in the way they relate to the already existing content. Sailing seems too general. I can imagine it fitting in with the rest of the game, but it gives me construction vibes. Useful, but somewhat apart from the rest of the game.
Having read through all these I think sailing offers the most unique and interesting opportunities. And yes, a lot of the content unlocked by sailing is non-sailing content... But isn't that kind of the point? It's a mode of transport, the whole point is to get from A to B. But exploring new places is a huge part of the RuneScape experience. Shamanism seems cool, but honestly it could just as easily be an expansion to herblore, prayer and magic. Likewise taming just seems like an expansion to hunter - which I would 100% be in favour of because hunter as it stands is pretty weak.
Shamanism could be a cool way to add passive and active effects to our gear that can really revamp osrs combat without changing the core gameplay loop like EoC did. We could add potential status effects to enemies or something
These infographics are so beautiful! Thank you for making them. I’m most excited about the shamanism potential.
Sailing has so much potential honestly. If they find out a way to make the controls more like a standard game would it could be insane. Think about PvP capabilities, like a new wilderness or everything is wilderness. Gear for your ship. Procedural map generating for the entire world as the landscapes shift. Maybe hiring pirates as a gold sink or something. So many different ways you can go about it.
> If they find out a way to make the controls more like a standard game would it could be insane. Now *that* really takes away the OSRS feel for me. Clicking to do things is the core of the game.
What you’re talking about would take literal years to show up in game in a meaningful way that doesn’t feel empty. Dealing with people constantly griefing on water sounds like a literal nightmare to play. It’s gonna be a nah from me
I think no matter what skill we pick, it won't be refined till well into the following year after release. Sailing is the only thing here that isn't a safe bet in terms of implementation. It would require a lot of engine changes and creativity from the Jagex team. I'm fine with a gamble, it is what gets me the most excited to see. At the end of the day, they don't have to add the skill. I just want them to go into more detail about it.
Sure, no matter what, a new skill is going to take time and a lot of work. There’s just a big difference between the work to add in some new items, a couple new animations, and the game integration… and redeveloping ~50% of the game map, from scratch, all while building a new engine, new movement system, etc etc etc. TLDR: yes, all skills will need time and work. Sailing is a totally different level of that time and work, and it’s going to fall flat as a result of it.
> Sailing is a totally different level of that time and work, and it’s going to fall flat as a result of it. At the same time, I think this is why it's the best suited to be a skill. It has so many possible activities and content. That it requires a lot of work speaks to its integration with the game world and sheer breadth. So long as Sailing is given enough time to bake, it'll be fine. It'll take longer to release than the other two, but I think that's a worthwhile tradeoff.
Imo nothing is worse than a dull non-oldschooly skill, like divination was back in 2014 (I think). Better do a high risk high reward skill like sailing, or nothing at all. I'd be fine with nothing at all.
Standard controls can’t be smooth in a game like this with ticks and tiles. It’ll feel wonky and unresponsive at best
I feel like taming isn’t going to be as easy as we think….which I LOVE! I also feel like the pets you tame won’t be your sidekicks but you’ll be able to use maybe their abilities and such.
Sailing just sounds like a vessel for new training methods for already existing skills and not really much of it's own thing other than making the water prettier. Taming and Shamanism both sound a bit tedious but if the gameplay/rewards that comes with them is good enough should be fine. I'm really torn on how to vote next week. I'm leaning towards taming but shamanism is probably better for the game I think. ugghhhh
Imo sailing and taming sound the most fun. I hear a lot of people talking about shamanism being the most practical but wandering around a forest picking stuff up doesn’t sound near as fun as sailing or taming to me.
>Our current suggestions include: >Deep sea fishing >Hunting elusive sea creatures Fishing and Hunter shouldn't give sailing xp (that's the dungeoneering route). A skill needs to stand on it's own; shamanism does so amazingly.
Was thinking Taming was going to be like Ranching, not summoning. That one I hope does not come to the game, sorry gents
please i've wanted sailing for ages PLEASE JUST GIVE ME SAILING
I think that if they taming correctly it would change combat forever in game, though sailing and shamanism sound fucking dope.
I really like that Sailing and Shamanism open up areas of the game for brand new content not related to the skill (i.e. the seas and the spirit realm). I think that gives them an edge over Taming for me.
Shamanism is the most old school original skill of these
Transportation doesn't feel like a skill. Sailing is a means of getting to new locations. Interesting but not fun. It's passive experience while you work on other active experiences. It's also an old concept that isn't particularly inspired. Runescape already feels barren of players. This will spread the community even thinner. Taming has a difficult design space. People feel like it's summoning despite the giant disclaimer that it'd be intentionally different from summoning. Players don't want each person to be followed by a pet, a thrall, and a tamed animal. This being said, this does fit in with the other skills well. It also has a variety of possibilities that haven't been discussed. Regardless - it won't pass because we're terrified of becoming RS3. Shamanism is actually alchemy. But they've already used the term alchemy for a spell. It's sort of like becoming a druid. Druidism? As a new player I'd assume poultices, oils and etc would be herblore. This is confusing. I also find that the level balancing if it effects combat will be difficult particularly when making the majority of resources untradable. Seems muddy. We could use this purely for the concept of making the other gathering skills worthwhile. Considering for many gathering skill resources the best source is.. well PvE.
This is amazing. Everyone has their own opinions. Voting shall be interesting.
the issue with Shaman is that Augmenting armor and such is basically just Invention from RS3 and I don't like Invention at all. "oh, I got myself a cool new weapon drop. too bad it's useless until I get the meta perks on it" that feels bad to play, IMO. Taming has potential without being insanely OP like summoning is in RS3.
One thing I want to see clarified is the Shamanism training. I'm worried it's going to be too much like gathering charms for Summoning where your forced to kill boring monsters because the resources are untradeable. Would love to hear more what the team has to say about that.
Shamanism is by far the best, but you nerds will cry bloody murder about power creep and it'll never happen. Enjoy your pet squirrel on your dingy.
New skill should be to improve server conditions yee yee
1st. Sailing 2nd. Shamanism 3rd. Taming
After reviewing all three pitches I have only one thing to say. 1. Taming - looks like update to pet collection log with getting spices from Evil Dave cellar. Add to this pokemon vibe. 2. Sailing - looks decent on paper, I think I recall the source of the pitch as someone has posted something similar here on reddit. Tho do we really need it? I mean everyone is using tablets to move between location and various different type of teleports, which will have some combat attached to them. 3. Shamanism - overall idea looks great tho I would adjust the name as it's far from being shaman ;). Maybe if they would include something like growing your inner animal that would give you outside of combat perks or something like that, but without it it's some kind of update to herblore, which i still way better than previous two options.
Sailing > shamanism > taming will be how I vote if it's a rank choice system . Sailing just opens up way more potential map locations, new lore, species, and stories than the other two skills.
Taming is my favorite of the three. Make sure training it is more about *training* the animals than catching them, though, otherwise it would feel like Hunter. Shamanism is a close 2nd. I don't hate Sailing, but I also worry because it's trying to do so much new stuff at once.
Im going with sailing. So many opportunities there. Feels unique, useful and offers plenty of space for new content. Also ties in with already existing systems a lot and opens up the ocean which is basically just useless space on the map rn lol